MC Fireside Chats - June 4th, 2025 - MC Fireside Chats, an Outdoor Hospitality Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brian Searl (00:45):
Welcome everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chats.
My name's Brian Searl with InsiderPerks and Modern Campground.
Excited to be here for another episode,our first week of the month of June.
It feels like this year is just goingcrazy fast but excited to see all the
kids get outta school and go Camping.
And hopefully everybody has agreat season coming up here.
So thanks for joining us.

(01:06):
For our recurring guest, we haveRafael back from Blue Water.
I'll let you introduceyourself in a second, sir.
Simon Neil from Camp Map and Scott Bahrfrom Carin Consulting Group, as well as a
special guest, Jayne Cohen, who I've knownfor only a couple years 'cause you're
so young and new to the industry, Jayne.
But glad to have you here and excitedto talk to you about some of the
things you have going on, obviouslyat Campground Consulting Group.

(01:26):
And I'm sure there's a dozen new thingssince we last saw each other, I think in
November that you've got your hands in.
So excited to talk to you about that.
Let's go around the roomand just introduce everybody
briefly who wants to start.

Rafael Correa (01:37):
I'll kick us off.
So Rafael Correa, Presidentand CFO of Blue Water.
And we are a outdoor hospitalitymanagement company and ownership group.
And so we own about 12 propertiesourselves and we manage a total
of about 70 properties, about60 of which are campgrounds.
The rest are hotels, marinas, andsome other attraction type businesses

(01:58):
that are ancillary and adjacent.
But I've been in the industry now goingon almost 14 years and been excited to see
its evolution and love being a part of it.

You've been here 14 years, or Blue Water's been here 14 years?

I have been in Blue Water about 14 years.

Wow.
I didn't know that.
I know that I've beenhere 16 years at, or 17.
I don't know.
It gets older every year.
Is that your office behind you?
Like just your

Yeah, this is Blue Water HQ and Ocean City, Maryland.

But that's like your office for Rafael.

Yep.

Geez, man.
I must have done somethingwrong in my 16 years in.
Fuck all right.
Thanks for being here,Rafael, appreciate it.
Scott.

Scott Bahr (02:38):
I'm obviously, in a cabin, so yeah, you both got me beat.

Oh no, I like cabins better.
You win.
Go ahead.

Scott Bahr (02:47):
I'm Scott Bahr with Carin Consulting Group.
We do market research.
I've worked in outdoor hospitalityfor about 25 years that

is it.
You're like I do market research.
I do that.
Me, bro.
Is that what that was?
I don't know what that was.
What's that?
It's I've been here 25 years.
Guys, what are you talking about?
Your measly 14?

Scott Bahr (03:05):
I know.
It's like you're in the,you're teenagers still.
It's come on.

I'm fine.
You can call me a teenager.
I'm fine with that.
I don't drink yet.
Hair up here.

Scott Bahr (03:12):
But yeah.
That's fine.
I'm introduced

Simon from Camp Map, who has a different background.

Simon Neal (03:21):
Yeah.
So I'm currently visiting a customerin the US but yeah, the founder of Camp
Map, we're a web platform that helpsoutdoor hospitality, campgrounds, RV park
clamping sites improve marketing and guestexperience with professional digital maps.
So we take your traditional PDFmap, we make that digital and do
all sorts of extra things thathelp solve your guest problems.

Awesome.
Thanks for being here, Simon.
And last but not least, ouresteemed special guest, Jayne Cohen.

Jayne Cohen (03:51):
Thank you for that nice introduction and for calling me young.
I actually am celebrating my50th year in this industry.
As of January and I'm,

How do you do that?
And you're only 27.

I know.
It's amazing.
It's a trick.
But I have been around for quitea while and I love this industry.
I'm from, I'm the founder and CEOof Campground Consulting Group.
Our sister company is GlampingConsulting Group and we do everything
campgrounds, so consulting, operations,marketing, and we love the industry.

Awesome.
Thanks for being here, Jayne.
I'm excited to dive a littlebit more into your company.
Typically what we do, I wanna dofirst just toss it to our recurring
guests, Rafael, Scott, Simon.
Is there anything that's come acrossyou guys' desk since you've been last on
the show that you think we should cover?
We should talk about?
Obviously we're focusing onindustry trends and insights, but
really anything is up for grabs.

I saw an interesting post today.
I think it was the Baltimore Sunpost it on Instagram, but it was
in reference to Ray's Town Lake, inPennsylvania, the largest recreational
lake run by the Army Corps.

Okay.

And apparently the Camping there is shut down due to staffing cuts
related to, the Doge inefficiency efforts.
And so they were interviewingsome of the local businesses there
and they said their Memorial Dayweekend was down 40 to 50% from the
usual volume of business they saw.
Just shows the impact and thepotential impact to this if

(05:19):
state and National Parks, armyCorps, lakes, just the real risk.
And that's kinda like the firstevidence that I've seen materializing.
And so I just wanted tothrow that out there.
It was definitely alarming.

Yeah.
Scott and I have talked aboutthis on Outwired a few times.
Like I think back in February we hada discussion about Doge and staff cuts
at national parks and things like that.
Scott, what do you think?
'cause I know you've been trackingthis quite a bit with different
closures and stuff, right?

Scott Bahr (05:45):
Correct.
And kinda what we're seeing is, Iwould say what we're starting to see
is an enthusiasm gap among potentialguests in that there's this dark cloud
hanging over the parks right now.
And I think I saw just before we startedhere that there's gonna be over 5,000

(06:07):
layoffs of staff at our national parks.

There was something on Woodall's about that I really
should cite Modern Campground,but I'll give Ben credit.
I saw it this morning on his site.

Scott Bahr (06:15):
So those things, what they do is they we work in an industry that,
is it's recreation, it's fun and that'swhat people want, that's what they seek.
And it's discretionary spending as well.
What you're seeing, again, I'll go backto it, a little bit of an enthusiasm gap.
I'm not saying that it's all negative.

(06:36):
I'm saying that there, there's a bitof concern right now and, people's
interest in the national parks isweighing a little bit right now.

Do we have a sense though, of whether that's economic, macro or
micro or closing of campgrounds orstaff shortages or closing of hiking
trails like you've been tracking Scott?
Do we know what that split is?
Because it feels like both arehappening at the same time?
It would be good to get an ideaof which is more heavily weighted.

Scott Bahr (07:06):
It's a cumulative effect.
The economic stuff is lesslikely to create that that whole
idea of, people being negative.
Because they understand it, theyunderstand economics, they understand
it, especially at the macro level.
But what they don't want is that onthe ground experience to be lessened.

(07:28):
If they're gonna spend the money, ifthey're going to go out there and still
take that trip, they want that experienceto still be the same kind of outdoor
emotional connection that they always get.
Thus that side of it isweighted more heavily.
Thus when with the staff layoffs andsuch people see, their interpretation
is that the experience is gonna beless, it's not gonna be the same type of

(07:50):
experience that they would've had in thepast, and that weighs more heavily on
people's behavior than actual economics.

Is it the publicity though, or is it if I think about Raise Town
for example, and just the Camping, likeCamping being closed is obviously a
detriment to people coming to stay there.
It would be interesting to seeif any private parks in the area
had an uptick or whether theyjust avoided the area altogether.
But is it more of a perception of,I wonder how many people are paying
attention to the news on a daily basis,I guess is what I'm trying to say,

(08:23):
versus just assuming it's gonna be,

I think it's interesting.
I'll tell you that, we're based inOcean City, Maryland, and we have a
lot of hotel and Campground operationsright in our backyard, right?
It's where we started.
It's our home base, the market we knowthe absolute best and our market, we pull
from the DC, Northern Virginia region,we pull from Baltimore, Philadelphia
all the way out to Pittsburgh.
When we were Pittsburgh's beachtown, and so we have these

(08:46):
great MSAs that we service.
And so there was real concern with allthe federal government layoffs that
they were talking about and all thecoming back to the office and everything
else that we were really concernedabout the market being down, like
being significantly down this summerwith people just being uncertain about
their job security and everything else.

(09:07):
And, the weird part, the uniquepart, interesting part, whatever we
want to call it, it's been the exactopposite, like this particular market,
I am up and up in pretty significantways which has been shocking to me.
But I think it's also a testament to theaffordability of the type of vacation that
we provide in the outdoor hospitality,and also Ocean City as a whole,

(09:28):
because it's a blue collar beach town.
And so I think thatwe're a drive to market.
It's still affordable.
And with the uncertainty, maybeit's playing to our strength.

Scott Bahr (09:38):
I would say that drive to part of the equation is super important.
I do think people will be staying closerto home and taking those destinations.
It's got the uncertainty withthe longer, bigger trips.
So if people are driving toyour destination, I think
you have a serious advantage.

Which is disproportionate.
Sorry, go ahead.

I was gonna think that's right too, Scott, because I'll
tell you that and when I look at theportfolio holistically and I try to
slice it up in different ways, the onearea where I'm seeing the most pain
in the form of bookings being down thesame time last year is National Parks
and the National Park Drive distance.
One of my campgrounds, the nearnational park, the average distance

(10:20):
somebody drives is 800 miles, average.
And it's down.
And so I think that's the otherpart is the national parks
are usually bucket list trips.
Do it once or maybe twice or differentareas of it, but you're not gonna do 'em
over and over again more often than not.
'cause you wanna see the other onesand they're typically gonna be a
longer travel for a lot of people.
And so I think that's being reflectedin the numbers that I'm seeing is that

(10:43):
most of our national park adjacentparks are some of the worst performers
being down the same time last year.

And if it's gonna be a bucket list trip, you wanna save
it for the best year, you couldpossibly go to it not win maybe.

Yes, it adds that to it too.
Yeah.

That was when I moved up to Calgary.
I came up here during the pandemic andthey had the Calgary Stampede, like
biggest hugest outdoor show in the world.
And they had it put on after the pandemic,but still things were still closed down.
And I was like, no, I justwanna wait till next year.
I wanna see it at its best the waythe Calgary Stampede should be.
And so I think that's thesame type of sentiment there.
And the northeast will disproportionatelybenefit from people staying home.

(11:20):
'cause there's more populationall in a dense area, right?

Correct.

Jayne, what are you seeing?

Atlantic is where we are is wildly densely populated and that's
extremely helpful to these markets.

I think that, so being in this industry for such a long time,
I've seen the ups and the downs andI feel that during times of economic
uncertainty, everything that youall are saying is absolutely true.
People, that bucket list tripis usually more time consuming

(11:54):
and more money consuming.
Right?
It's more expensive and folks in times ofuncertainty, folks are looking for places
that are easy for them to go, easy forthem to cancel and get their money back.
And that is why we'reseeing shorter drives.

(12:15):
The 150 miles sweet spot is back.
And I think Scott can confirm that for me.
But that has that's similar to 2019.
And so this is what we're seeing.
We're just seeing a shift.
And Camping is affordable.
When you compare Camping to othertypes of travel it's affordable.

(12:38):
It always has been.

Do they end up in private campgrounds if it becomes
an more of an affordabilitycrisis than it is now though?
Or do they end up in state parks orbe element land or stuff like that?

I think that state parks have always been attractive because of,
usually their locations are fabulous.
And obviously the price is a, is generallylower than the private sector, though
I have stated some state campgroundsthat do compete with the private.

(13:15):
But I do believe that, see, Ifeel that Camping is less price
driven even in today, even today.
And it's more driven by where theywanna go and what they wanna do
while they're at the Campground or RVpark and while they're in that area.

(13:37):
Because I think with Camping.
You can make your trip fit your budget.
So if you pay a little bit more forthe campsite because you wanna be
in a certain area, then maybe youdon't go out to eat, as many times.
So I feel that.
I feel like pricing isnot always the case.
And I am a camper, and I've been a camperall my life, and I don't think I've

(14:02):
ever made the choice based on price.
It's always been like,where are we gonna be?
What is our location?
How or how close is thatRV Park to the highway?
That those decisions aremuch more important to me.

What do you think it can

Jayne money.
So, you know, You don't have tothink about that price stuff.
So

Rafael, for those who have known me, they know I'm very frugal.
So

I think too, I mean it's all about value proposition, right?
And it's not just yes Campingis affordable, but the value
proposition is huge, right?
And so you think about these parksand, yes, you might go eat out less
or whatever else, but you're alsomaybe getting a water park, might be
getting, these other great amenitiesthat, the local Hampton Inns certainly
isn't serving up activities and eventsand things that, you know, you that.
And so we've been hyperfocusedon the value proposition.

(14:52):
That's what we wanna make surepeople understand is how much
you get for what you're paying.
And I think that isresonating a lot with guests.

If I can add to that.

Yeah.

So my in, so I don't own any parks anymore, but when I did own
parks and when I have traveled, italways appears to me that the most
expensive sites are always the onesthat are booked or harder to get.
And that I believe hasto do with value, right?
Completely with value.

(15:22):
Because for instance, waterfront sites,which are usually the most expensive
and the most that that RV park ownersamenitize, they're always booked.
They're tough to get.
And that is because ofvalue in my opinion.
Because if you went to a hotel andtried to replicate that, the price

(15:44):
is going to be at least double.
Probably triple.

Yeah, absolutely.
It's a waterfront campsite.
Even if you're paying a hundred fifty,a hundred seventy five bucks a night is
still, way better than the Highway Hamptonor, Fairfield, you're gonna stay at.

But you've gotta communicate that, right?
You have to communicate that.
And that's where I think is abig thing for me to emphasize to
a lot of Campground out there.
Raf at Bluewater, you'vegot a great marketing team.
They know how to do this likethe back of their hand, right?
Not everybody knows how to do that.
And so I think there's a necessityto not just do marketing, but
also communicate the value.
Explain what it is, tell thedifferent types of people who would

(16:21):
typically come to your park, what youoffer, why it's beneficial to them.
Maybe why it's cheaper, maybe whyit's not cheaper, but why it's better.

Yeah.

So how do we do that?

I think there's a lot of different tools to that.
And I know Simon's gonna have somethoughts on this because, his tool
that he provides, these Campgroundowners helps to demonstrate that
value in a much more realistic way.
When you're in that buying process.
And we'll talk about booking window,I'm sure, 'cause that's another variable
this year that we're dealing with.
Our strategy is visual.

(16:51):
You gotta feel, you gotta be able to.
You gotta be able to putyourself in that position, right?
And through all the differentchannels is so important to us.
And so heavy concentration on makingsure we have great lifestyle visuals
and that we're constantly building moreand better content for the properties.
If you're not focused on content asa Campground owner, you're definitely
missing the boat because you knowthat it's such an experiential travel

(17:16):
style, that if you're not being ableto capture that and pitch that to
folks and have them put themselves.
I always say that if I can see ifpeople can see themselves in the
inner tube at my property, like that'swhat's gonna make 'em look right.
If they can see themselves floating inthat air tube with a cocktail, they're in.
And I think the other thing you know,there, there's been a lot published
about, it's this concept of micro, right?

(17:37):
It's not even, you have to get these likepeople with these gigantic followership.
They're great, right?
If you can get them and they'llmove the needle for you.
But, even some of these micro folksthat have these little pockets of
communities they can reach out toand introduce your assets to and
introduce your experience to them.
They are even better, right?
Than photo and video and really immersingsomeone in the opportunity, right?

(17:57):
They're actually givingfeeling for the experience.
That photo and videoonly goes so far to do.

Let's talk about a couple of these, right?
Starting with Simon's Map, right?
Camp Map and Simon, like we, obviouslytalk about some different things if
you have different ideas, but tellpeople like, this is a key component.
There are other things thatwe'll talk about, right?
But the map is one way thatyou can see on your website.
You can discover, you can seeexactly what you're getting and how
far away it is from a campsite andthe value prop and all that stuff.
So tell us about that.

Simon Neal (18:26):
Yeah, it's just about going into the mind of
your customer or your guest.
The more excitement youcan build, the better.
And the more uncertainty youcan bring down, the better.
So that's the two things we work on.
So we focus on making our mapsreally accurate and realistic.
So when you look at them, you know exactlywhat you're gonna get where things are.

(18:46):
But then you can really drilldown into the details and
you'll see site specific photos.
What are the bathhouse look like?
What does the pool look like?
And the more this, really specificinformation you can feed them.
If they wanna look forit, the better it is.
People really wanna knowwhat they're gonna buy, what
they're gonna get beforehand.
And if you can providethat you're gonna do great.

Is there any data that you have, Simon, on the, I don't
wanna call it a conversion rate.
'cause I don't know if you go mapdirectly to booking, although I do know,
like you do embed the bookings in themaps, I think, if I remember correctly.

Simon Neal (19:20):
Yeah.

But is there any data on how that impacts the
overall guest journey to booking?

Simon Neal (19:25):
What we see is a huge amount of activity before booking.
So we typically present our maps onthe homepage of our customer's website.
So the guest comes to the homepage,they look around and they go in the
map and they spend a long time in themap clicking on everything, clicking
on the pool, clicking on the reception,clicking on the sites individually,
and it builds up the activity.

(19:47):
And then the final result is, booknow, which is inside the map as well.
So that's where we add value, iswe provide all that context, the
location context, the excitement,reduce the uncertainty, and then you
have an immediate route to booking.
I think any way you canachieve that is great.
But it's all about, specificaccurate information.

I wanna come back to you in a second, talk about your US trip,
but I want to see if these other guyshave any other ideas while we're on
the subject of things that we coulduse to enhance the value prop, the
way we share it, the way we send ourmessaging, the way we communicate.
Any ideas, guys?
Nobody has any ideas really.

I've shared my already.

Oh, okay.
Come on, Jayne CampgroundConsulting Group.
50 years.
You must have like,well, a thousand of them.

I think that first of all, your websites need to be, they
need to show an experience, butthey need to give you a feeling.
It's about getting on the websiteand, how they always say pictures
tell you a thousand words or the

Yep.

That saying, and that's I feel that's what you
have to do in your website.
Besides the fact that you have tocapture them and convert people looking
to bookings and that type of stuff.
I just feel that you're, when you go tosomeone's website it needs to stand out as

(21:13):
an individual and not, because when peopleare looking to go Camping, they look, in
my experience, they look towards an area.
This is the area I wanna go, and then theystart looking at different campgrounds.
And your experience on the websiteneeds to stick out amongst the others.

(21:34):
It can't be that same look, that same feelthat, okay, I'll give you some pictures,
I'll tell you what my facilities are.
I'll show you, a mapand then you can book.
It cannot be that old timeCampground, website experience.

Especially going into a more competitive landscape that
generally comes out of a what mayor may not be a down economy, right?

Yes.
It needs to be fun and excitingand make me want to go there.

But there's all kinds of different ways to accomplish that, right?
Like obviously there's your,and this is me just putting my
marketing hat on for a second.
But there's your website designand then there are features like
Simon's Map that you can embed in it.
There are virtual 360tours that you can put in.
There are pages that you can addthat target different personas or
demographics or types of people.
There are ways that you can, I don't know,streamline the path to the booking process

(22:25):
by focusing on the user experience.
Mobile friendliness, responsiveness,photo galleries, like all kinds
of things we can do just, andthat's just the website alone.
Obviously there are other ways tocommunicate your experience, but, so
I think there's a lot of people whooverlook their website in this industry.
Is that fair?
Or am I being too bad?

That's very fair.
And you know what I think people reallyoverlook, is having professional photos.
Like, I think that now sincewe all have a phone that takes
pretty good pictures, right?
We all take our own pictures.
So we all have our own dronesnow when we take our own drones.
But still, I see the value in bringingin that professional photographer

(23:10):
who really knows how to do it.
Sure.
Like I and I think you're saying Sure.
But I think a lot of campgroundstry to save the money there on their
websites, and I think that's a mistake.

I think part of it is they don't understand how wide and far
those pictures can go in the hands ofa management company like Bluewater or
a marketing company like Insider Perksor you embed 'em on the map for Simon.
You put 'em on the website, you put 'em onGoogle Maps and Apple Maps and Bing Maps.
You put 'em on social media, youput 'em on brochures and flyers
at trade shows and RV shows.
Like those photos, it'snot just your website.

(23:44):
The ROI, there's crazy on photos.

Yes.
And a photo, as I said before,a photo tells you a lot more
than even a blog, right?
Because the per, if the person can immersethemselves into that photo or into that
video, for me, that's what's important.

I think.
You gotta attack it fromboth ends, honestly.
Like you have to have that professionallycurated content that you can use, in
the down times that kind of becomethe framework of your website.
But I'm a big advocate ofleveraging social media with more,
recapping the weekend, right?
Here's what's happening at our property.
Here's these great pictures of kidshaving fun that are unscripted,

(24:24):
unproduced, and real, right?
And then the other thing that we've hadtremendous success with that I really
recommend it, even if you're, bad atit, I'd do, is Facebook Lives, right?
Facebook lives of the campgroundsis such a valuable way to
connect with your audience.
I know Facebook for certain agegroups is dead and certain people,

(24:48):
but not for our customer, right?
For the core of our customer andfamilies and moms, like they are
actively on Facebook and the peopleconnect and the beautiful part of
our industry, and I always, wheneverI'm trying to explain our industry to
somebody from not from our industry,is that, imagine, being in a world of
hospitality being like that, we get it.

(25:08):
Hotels, there's resorts,there's other things out.
But what we have is this element oflifestyle, of hobby, of passion, of
like the equivalent that people havein a car club of the Corvette Car Club.
They love Corvettes, right?
And everything in their house is Corvette.
Corvette.
Corvette.
We have that same thing.
It's just RV life, right?
And RV lifestyle.
And the ability to tap into that,and people want to know about

(25:30):
what's happening at that property,especially if they had a good time.
It's a great way for them tostay connected and encourage
them to come back and book again.
And there's , I think, a nice balanceof both produced and unscripted, more
raw content that I think creates a nicebalance that really brings authenticity
to what we do, which is a veryauthentic experience in and of itself.

So if I'm an owner out there, and I'm hearing the things like
Simon's Map and the 360 tours and allthe things that I just rattled through,
and what you mentioned, Rafael, andyou mentioned Jayne and Scott, I'm sure
you'll contribute some data in a second.
But how do I start, right?
'Cause if I'm an owner and I'm justtrying to, and I'm admittedly don't
own a Campground, I'm not brave enough.
But if I put myself in anindependent owner's shoes, right?

(26:13):
It's different if you have a managementcompany and a marketing team behind you
and stuff like that, and I hear we'lljust gather all the photos together and
take pictures during the activities.
You're not doing anything else.
And then you can post 'em on socialmedia or go on Facebook live on Sunday
afternoon when you're got 30 otherthings going on around your park.
It's just you and your husband.
Where do you start?

My experience is that even if you're an owner of a
Campground, and let's just say you'renot the media savvy person, you're
not the marketing savvy person, right?
I guarantee you there's somebody on yourstaff that's their natural inclination.
And you just have to tap into it, right?
And let them explore.
Let them have some fun with it.
The reality is Blue Water, as bigas we are today, is is nothing but

(26:51):
a collective of incredibly talentedpeople who are doing stuff that they're
passionate about in concert, right?
That's what Blue Water is.
And so if you're a GM of a Campgroundand you are slammed and you are
truly busy and don't really have apassion for it, because the reality
is if you're not passionate aboutit, it's not gonna ring through true.
Then take a survey, go find out.

(27:12):
I'm guarantee you there's a high schoolor recent college graduate on your
staff that does this in their sleepand has a killer Instagram page of
their own with beautiful photos andis gonna embrace something like this.
And I think, don't sleep on thetalent that's at your property.

Jayne, what do you think?

I completely agree with that, and that's what we've done at the
properties that we work with the socialmedia, the Instagram, even the TikTok.
That's not somethingI'm personally good at.
I'm only really on social media andI follow some of my clients' social
media but I know how important itis, and I think it's best to have

(27:50):
somebody who's super creative andknows how to do these kind of things.
And there are a lot of young peopleout there that love doing it.
It's like a hobby to them.
And if they can turn this hobby intoa job, it's really a fun job for them.
The other thing is that I feelthat if you are the owner of a
Campground, your time is already spent.

(28:13):
If you, you're operating your own park,you do not have the time, even if you
have the knowledge, you probably don'thave the time to do a social media
or digital campaign for yourself.
Because it's just, if you run activities,you should really have someone out there
that's doing the activities for you.

(28:33):
Because when you're going to do anactivity, it has to happen at that time.
And if you're going to get out thereand take videos and post Instagram
video, any type of videos, youneed to have the time to do that.
And you need to be available tobe out on your grounds to do that.
And I personally worked my campgrounds,boots on the ground for many years and

(28:58):
it was impossible for me to be able todo that job well and also do my job well.
So I think you really need todedicate someone to it, and it
doesn't have to be full time.

Scott, do you have any data on this over the years that you've
gathered about how some of this stuffhelps people convert more or understand
the value or be happier with theirexperiences or anything like that?

Scott Bahr (29:19):
Absolutely.
What we know is that about, I don't know,three quarters of campers when they're
looking for a destination, the picturesare the most important consideration.
It rises to the top in any of the workwe've done, especially in recent years.
To just put a bow on that, that topicwith photography, it's that important.

And you can just make 'em up on AI now.

Scott Bahr (29:38):
There you go.
It's good.
Yeah.

Brian, can we send Simon a new water bottle?
That thing looks likeit's seen some things.
Hold that thing up, Simon.
I need to see that, that bad Boy.

It's also quite large.

Simon Neal (29:52):
Been around a lot of places in there.

I'm not that bad, but I got some serious dents on the bottom
of my, like insulated water bottlefrom hiking and dropping it on trails.

I'll send you a Blue Water sticker you can put on there.

Can we switch subjects to something else?

We can, I wanted to talk about Simon's exper.
Well, Scott, first were you done?
Are we good with your thoughts?

Scott Bahr (30:12):
Oh, no, that's fine.
I was just gonna add one more thing tothe content is to think of it in terms
of is your content active or static?
And that to me is, peopleseek something active content.

Yes, the answer is we can switch.
But I wanted to ask Simon real quickabout his, not about this, but about
his experience so far in the Statesand what some of, or some of the things
you've seen when you come over here andtoured all these different campgrounds.
Just second trip, right?

Simon Neal (30:35):
Yeah.
Second trip in three weeks.
So yeah, I'm over here doing proof ofconcept, which is a different topic,
but it's been really interesting'cause I've been Camping my whole life.
We're based in Europe and the majorityof our customers are still there.
We've seen hundreds ofcampgrounds in detail.
The good, the bad, and the ugly.
So now I've been into four campgroundsin the last two and a half weeks.

(30:57):
It's really interesting to see thedifference between Europe and the US.
So I can talk a bit aboutthat, if that's interesting.

Yeah, I'd love to hear it.

Simon Neal (31:04):
Okay.
So first I'll start withwhat's similar, the same.
So I think, the experience of arrivalcheck-in is actually very similar.
Like I think the campgrounds I'vebeen in, it's been done very well.
It doesn't feel any different whatsoever.
You got the same sort of material, you'represented with a reception, the same sort
of experience, communication with thestaff and, getting to your site also very

(31:29):
similar, so that no difference whatsoever.
You can walk from one to the other.
Something that's slightly differentis obviously the site layout.
So what is very significantly differentis the, it's heavily focused on RV sites.
What I've seen so far, so inEurope it's maybe 50 50 split

(31:51):
between tent sites and RV sites.
And what I've seen here, it'salmost like 90% RV, 10% tent sites.
So that has a knock on effect to all theamenities and stuff we'll come back to.
But in terms of the quality of thesites themselves your hookup stuff,
your electricity, your water, yoursewer, how they're presented, the
landscaping, the grass, the fences,that's all pretty similar actually.

(32:14):
So I think the presentation of sites,the landscaping is all pretty similar,
but the site shapes, the distributionof site types is totally different.
And I think the knock on effect of thatand the amenities, so if you talk about
like toilets, bath houses, showers,like in European camp sites, that's
like a major thing you have to have,because the majority is tent sites.

(32:37):
So they need to go to thetoilet somewhere, they need
to go for a shower somewhere.
And it has to look brilliant.
It has to be super clean, it hasto be super tidy, it has to be big.
You have to have 20 showers.
So that's totally different.
Like I'm looking around, I can'tfind a toilet or there's a key
code to get in the shower becausethere's only one or two of them.
It's very different.

(32:58):
But again, the qualitymaybe not quite there.
Similar, I've been in some pretty goodcampgrounds, so I dunno about the rest,
but there's a big difference there.
The final, let's talk aboutother amenities, like pools,
stuff for kids, playgrounds.
I would say that's also pretty similar.
It's paid attention to, they're good.

(33:19):
There's lots of spacefor other activities.
So I'd say on that levelit's pretty similar.
And the final one, which Brianbrought up is the cabins.
So there's one behind me.
Very different.
Like I think the size is bigger,but the internal layout, the use of

(33:40):
space, the thought for experience inthe cabin is nowhere near the same.
Like I was in one two weeks agoand there's nowhere to hang your
clothes up or put your clothes.
It's okay, I'm gonna come in withmy big rock sack for two weeks
stay, and where do I put it?
There's nowhere there.
Like the kitchen, living roomarea, huge bit of white space in
the middle with nothing in it.
What I do there, I'm not gonna standup in that space and spin around.

(34:02):
It's just wasted space.
So I think definitely a bit behindon cabin design and presentation
of experience of cabins.
Maybe that knocks on abit to the glamping stuff.
I think Europe is definitelyleading the way a bit there as well.

What do you think?

I think you're right, Simon, I'll tell you that.
And because we have a sister companycalled Great Outdoor Cottages based
in Delaware that builds cabins.
And, the evolution of cabins ismoving in the direction of Europe
and a much more, I mean, it's 400square feet in a park bottle, right?
So you gotta be smart with it.
But, I agree with you that a lotof the more classic designs have
fallen short on efficient useof space more often than not.

(34:41):
Like you said, that hanging thing is likea notorious thing in a lot of park models.
It's really obnoxious or a placeto put your suitcase, right?
People forget, we're catering toa different customer, not an RVer.

Simon Neal (34:50):
Yeah.

So there's a lot of those annoyances, but I can tell
you that space is evolving rapidlyand the design quality is getting up
there, in my opinion, with some ofthe stuff that I've seen in Europe.
Because I do agree that designis prioritized in Europe,
almost in any scenario, right?
The cars, whatever, it's so muchmore thought put into it, but I think
that's honestly getting elevated.

(35:11):
And if you look at some of the newerproduct that's hit in the market from,
Capco from us at Great Outdoors andsome of the other people that are out
there, much better stuff now than ever.

What's one of the most interesting ones that sticks out
in your mind, Simon, of a way that,like a cabin in Europe that you'd
see more places than just one, right?
Not something really unique, but hasmade an efficient use of that space.
Is there a way you canlike, help us visualize it?

Simon Neal (35:35):
I think it's like nothing is wasted, like the economy and efficiency.
What something is pushed to the limit.
So if you go in the master bedroom,there's enough space to get around
the bed on either side, but that's it.
Okay, you're gonna have a cupboard toput your clothes and everything else, but
there's no space for hanging out there.
You're gonna go there, you're gonna sleep,you're gonna wake up, your change, go out.

(35:57):
So here, there's plenty of space to walkaround and it's just, you don't need that.
It's a cabin.
You go that sleep.
I think that's one big thing.
And use of height, thinkingthree dimensionally.
Bunk beds.
Okay, we have bunk beds here as well,but you can arrange 'em differently and
fit three in one room instead of two.
So I think it's just these small thingsof really being efficient with the space.

(36:18):
And then the other big oneis design quality materials.
People are coming in andout every couple of days.
They're bashing their stuff, suitcaseson the walls, on the cabinets.
They need to be tough to stand up to that.
And it needs to lookgood season after season.

Okay.
Scott, anything to add, or, I don'twanna leave you out of it there.
I don't know what you can talkabout with data if, unless you've.

Scott Bahr (36:42):
We don't really get into the cabinet design
thing too much in our research.
Mostly the actual amenitieswe've looked at that.
But other than that, and especiallycross-culturally, we haven't
really done any measurement there.

It would be interesting to see if the desires of the
American consumer are the same asthe desires of the European consumer.
I'm all for efficiency of space.
I'm all for, obviously puttingthought into the design and the
considerations of even as simpleas putting your rucksack somewhere.
But does the average Americanconsumer who would come to a typical
private Campground want that?

(37:13):
Or do they want a twirlaround the living room?
I don't know.
Somebody should ask.

It's the historical cabin that you've seen here, and even
some of the ones today, we're still bigwe got a lot more space to work with
over here than they do in Europe, andso we tend to spread out a little bit.
But, I think the trend is moving inthis country towards efficiency, and
living efficiently and being someonewho's conscientious of the space and
resources that they're consuming.

(37:37):
And so that's why I say there's amarked shift in the manufacturing
that's happening right now.
Thinking about beinggenerally more sustainable.
But the historical tendency isexactly what Simon's talking about.
A room where you canspin around in and why.
But I think it's also generallybecause our homes we're trying to
replicate the comforts of home.

Yeah.

In a tiny little cabin.
And we always anticipated thatwhat as an American consumer,
that's what we're trying to create.

Okay.
Jayne, what did you wanna

I think people like small spaces, if they don't feel
like they're in a box hence the trendtowards tiny homes, which are really
just most cases, smaller park models.
But I also do feel that folks don'twanna feel like they're in a small box.
So if we can build things, efficiency,but still give them maybe, the

(38:32):
ceiling's a little bit higher or theroof is a little bit higher, because
that gives them a feeling of they'rein a bigger unit with more space.
But in reality, it really is condensed.

Do we want them inside though?

No.

Don't we want them outside?

We don't want them inside.
But at the end of the day, a camper thatis staying with you at the end of the day
is sleeping in that unit and spending, asignificant amount of time in that unit.
They're sleeping there.
Virtually half the day and they'reprobably cooking food in there.
And they're also, what becomesimportant about a rental is not

(39:08):
just the rental itself, it's alsothe outside of the site and how is
the outside of the site designed.
But they're on that site, let's sayat least half of the day, right?
Or even more betweenthe rental and the site.
So I feel that whole experiencecollectively as to the inside of the unit

(39:30):
and the outside of the unit, we all knowthat outside living is very big right now.
Outdoor kitchens, at homes.
Everyone's putting anoutdoor kitchen in virtually.
So these type of outdoor amenities andupgrades to the site, whether they be on
every single site or only on some sites,but definitely on your rental units,

(39:51):
especially your more luxurious ones.
I feel that's equally important,the outside living aspect.

Yeah.
And I'm just playingdevil's advocate, right?
I'm not saying I believe or don't believethat I don't enough data on whether
it should be bigger or smaller or howmuch time they're spending inside,
but I generally think, if you expandit to the whole site design, that's
obviously way more important, right?
The KOA patio sites, with the way theyput the thought into those designs, but
just the outdoor area, the patio, thepatio furniture, is what I was gonna

(40:18):
say, sorry, it escaped me for a second.
But the fire pit and the amenitiesand how that's designed and how they
can spend time outside and yeah Ithink it's the thought that counts.
Is that too cheesy?
Can I say that?

No.
Yeah, you could say that.
It is.
And also a lot of times we dosomething outta site or anything
within our Campground, and I feellike it's really important to use
that amenity or use that facility oruse that Campground yourself that I'm
sorry, that rental yourself, right?

Yeah.

Like for instance, we all buy mattresses or we all buy beds.
If my husband is six foot two,is he comfortable in that shower?
Are his legs stickingout over that mattress?
So like that type of comfort too.

And those are the easy ones, but also you should probably spend a
couple nights in the bed to see whetheryour lower back begins to hurt, right?

Yeah.
Because if I'm a camper and I'm rentingand I'm not getting any sleep and I
feel awful by the time I leave, I think,those type of things are very important.
And I think we overlook it oftenbecause we don't actually use our
own shower that the campground'susing or use the laundromat.

(41:34):
And I think if you did that, you'd belike, oh, we need a hook here, or we need
a bench here, or, that type of thing.

Scott, do you have any data on the outside?

Scott Bahr (41:43):
On the outside is as Jayne mentioned, this is something that
more and more people are asking for.
The outdoor cooking areas,the outdoor areas to hang out.
They're less inclined to wanna be inside.
So I was saying when you were talkingabout the the size of the cabin I
was thinking of like Frank LloydWright and how he designed his.

I've been in a couple of his houses.
Yeah.

Scott Bahr (42:05):
He would, purposely put a lower ceiling in part of the room
to force people into the middle.
So they would socialize more.
And it's like that, like wheredo you want the people to be?
The other part of that is, I rememberdoing focus groups with some RVs
once, and I asked for a new RV or whatsize should they think of getting?
And this one person said itdepends on how well you get along

(42:27):
with your travel companions.
That was his gauge was, ifyou get along with your travel
companions, it doesn't matter.
But the idea is that, again,depending on where you're at, but
people rather go outside, this isn'tsupposed to be an awkward experience.
So whatever you could do to getthem outside and as a Campground
owner or manager for you, it's yourbenefit for them to be outside too.

(42:47):
'Cause you think the more they're inside,the more the wear and tear on the inside.

But they're also gonna associate it with a hotel experience.

Scott Bahr (42:54):
And if they're inside.
Exactly.
Now you know you've lostyour differentiation.
And again, I just presented someinformation on it's RVs, but it's similar
that what's most important in the designof an RV, and what people want is right
near the top of importance is to haveoutdoor cooking and entertaining areas.

(43:15):
Like even in some of the RVs nowthey're putting like big screen
TV on the side of the RV outside.

Yeah.

Scott Bahr (43:20):
So you can turn in the canopy and.

That's what was going through my head when
Jayne was talking about you can

People watch the outdoor channel while you're at the Campground.

Scott Bahr (43:26):
Yeah.
Like you can go to Zion and.

At least you're outside, right?
Like at least you're outside to Scott'spoint, like it's a difference maker.
It's I'm gonna remember watching TVoutside of my patio next to the campfire
more than I am, and I'm gonna be able todisassociate that or differentiate that,
I guess from a, hotel stay differently.
I was thinking about thatwhen Jayne was talking too.
Like the TV outside the flip open,like you have on some of the RVs

(43:48):
where you can just cook on a like aColeman Grill type appliance outside.
Heck you even put a gimmick inwhen they try to go back inside.
It like pops out a beer fromthe side and you're like, are
you sure you don't go inside?
You know the other, so yourrecommendation that got is we need to
lower the ceilings to loft height onthe entire cabin and make them crawl
through it, so they wanna be outside.

The other thing is the social experience of being outside.
And I feel like this extends and whenI asked to change the subject, this
is what I wanted to change it to.
I think this extends to, therelationship experience because
campers have always been big on that.
And now where half of allreservations are being done online,

(44:25):
rather than someone on the phone.
And we're using Gates and Advancedcheck-in online, so you don't even
have to stop at the office anymore.
I think it's more important than everfor the staff and the managers to be
present outside on the Campground on thegrounds and introducing themselves to

(44:49):
campers and welcoming them to campers.
It doesn't necessarily have to be acheck-in because I think it's great
now that, we can have a 300 sitepark and we can check people in on a
Friday night pretty quickly, right?
Because everybody's paid in advance.
They've already checked in, their licenseplate is registered in the gate, so
they can go right through, and so forth.

(45:11):
I think that's wonderful.
And I think guests, especiallythe younger generations, love it.
But, we cannot forget that we arein the outdoor hospitality business.
And if you're gonna operate thatway with all the latest technology,
again, I think it's wonderful.
But by doing that, you lose some of thehospitality aspects of the business.

(45:34):
And I think that is still very important.

I'm gonna play devil's advocate again and say,
I don't know that you've lost it.
I think it wasn't there in alot of places to begin with.
Because, and I'm not just talkingabout outdoor hospitality,
I'm talking about hotels too.
It's still if I go to a hotel on abusiness trip, it still amazes me
when I am that Marriott Platinummember and the manager writes me a
handwritten note on a card, right?
So I think for sure,you're absolutely correct.

(45:56):
That should be done andshould be done more.
I don't know if we've lost it.
I think we just need more of it.

And hopefully, by reducing the friction of a check-in, like you're
talking about Jayne of time, which yes,those were touchpoint, but they were also
not necessarily value add touchpoint.
That time can be refocusedon value add touchpoints.

Yes.

Yeah.

Because I think that's the big difference between a regular
hotel and even, in our campgroundsor our rental units, is that personal
relationship experience and factor.
And it's like when you walk into arestaurant that you've gone to a few times
and the owner is like, Hey, how you doing?

(46:38):
Welcome back dah da.

Going through the table.
Yeah.

That

makes you feel special, right?
As a person that makes you feel special.
And as a human being, that's human nature.
And if we can take, you should bedoing that at your Campground level.
I think that's when you doguest surveys, there's things
that are important to people.

There's things that everybody wants to see and
that you have to have, right?
Like good water, electricsewer, good wifi.
But then there's things that arereally high importance and meeting
the manager, or meeting the staffor feel like they're cared about.
That's very high level.
Touchpoint that is hospitality.

(47:21):
And I think that whether Brian, peopledid it before or whether they're doing
it less, whatever the reason that they'renot doing it, they gotta start doing it.

Yeah.
And to your point, like there's propto Rafael's point, sorry, there's
probably somebody in your staff who,if you don't like to be the cheery
person, you're the grumpy Brian.
Which is why I don't run a Campground.
Find somebody in your staff whohas that talent, who's super
happy and cheery to go around.
Not to be annoying, but to befriendly and personable and whatever.
It's always better to meet the owner, butit's better to meet any staff member who
looks like they care and ask about whatyour experience is and all that stuff.

(47:54):
Period.

Scott Bahr (47:55):
Absolutely.
And we have the data to back this up too.
You always ask about if wehave data, we actually have it.
Several years ago when we did Campgroundlevel surveys with KOA, this was one
of the most important considerations,is meeting with the manager.
That was a question we asked, did you meetwith the manager or owner or whomever?
And what we found was that if it wasa memorable experience, the person,

(48:17):
we measured net promoter score, NPS,it would increase by at least 15
points if they had that, and that's.

Massive.

Scott Bahr (48:25):
Above and beyond everything else.
Like you were, Jayne, you were talkingabout the amenities, all that stuff.
This is what brings them back.
This is what it's really all about.
'cause you said it'd begreat, we're in hospitality.
This is hospitality.
And if you do that, it'sthe key to your success.

It's the lowest hanging fruit too of all the things.

Scott Bahr (48:43):
Absolutely.

We talked about on having cabins that are designed more
efficiently to make the guest feelbetter, of having the outside be better
designed, of having amenities, of thedifferences between Europe and the United
States, of all the things, the lowesthanging fruit is to go out and say hi.

Absolutely.

And it's the least expensive.
It's the least expensive thing to do.

Scott Bahr (49:00):
Yep.

It's a question of effort.
And I'll tell you that as somebodywho's bought a number of campgrounds
and over the years is that one of thethings that I pay attention to is the
relationship between the Campgroundowner and the guest that's there, right?
How intimate is that relationship?
Because that's a risk,to me to replace that.

Yes.

Because I'm extremely proud of how Blue Water delivers
a very high level of guest serviceat across such a large portfolio.
But can I ever replicate what a singleowner operator does that's on that
property every day, grinding it outand engaging with guests like that
is virtually impossible to replicate.

(49:39):
And I don't care who you are.
I think we get as close ashumanly possible at scale.
And the reason for that is 'cause weat Blue Water have the most incredible
core of general managers, I think,that exist in the industry, and
they make or break our properties.
And we could be the bestmanagement company in the world.
And it doesn't matter if youdon't have an engaged GM who's out

(50:01):
there leading a team and being a.

Role model.

Yeah.
Being an ambassador, for the propertyto all the people that come to visit.
And there is no way toset a hook deeper, right?
Using a fishing analogy appropriatefor Blue Water, than for a GM to engage
with a guest in a meaningful way.

And what else is that, when your guest is getting
that, when you have blemishesand we all have blemishes, right?

Nobody's perfect.

They're way more forgiving about blemishes, and I'm
sure Scott, you'll support me thatfirst time guests are more critical
than repeat guests, would be my guess.
And because they know our blemishes andthey have like their sunglasses on they're
feeling so good about being there, that ifsomething's blemish, they can ignore it.

(50:51):
It's not as important to them.
It doesn't ruin this.

Well, it's really opposite.
Because what happens is whenthings go wrong and you address
it and address it the right way.
Now you've built trust.

Exactly.

Right.
And once you have trust, thenyou have a guest for life.
And that's what I think is themost important factor here.
Quite frankly, I finishedreading a book not that long ago
called The Obstacle is the Way.
And it's really talks about embracingthe challenges that you're facing
and changing the light in which yousee them and how you address them.
And the reality is that when thingsgo sideways, that's an opportunity.

(51:23):
That's an opportunity to gain a customerfor life if you handle it the right way.

But it should be your second opportunity.
'cause your first one, if you hadgone and talked to that person when
they checked in and wave hello tothem, they'd be much less likely
to be scream at you in the office.

Yeah.
Yeah.
You would be a person tothem, not just somebody.

And they're much more open to giving you constructive criticism.

Yeah.

That's valuable.

Yeah.
That you can actually benefit from.

My husband is one of those that if he has a bad meal at
a restaurant, he won't say anything.
He'll still leave a good tip,but he'll walk out and he'll
say I'll never go there again.
And I always say we alwaysused to own our own businesses.
Wouldn't you rather have been toldabout that problem so you could fix it?
And I think most peopleare more like my husband.
That they're gonna walkout and just not come back.

(52:09):
That's not what I want as an owner.
I want to be able to have a dialogue withthat camper or that guest, good or bad.
Especially in the bad case,because I wanna correct it.

Scott Bahr (52:21):
Absolutely.
And it was just mentioned a moment agoabout establishing that rapport upfront.
That's why it's so important to do that.
'cause that person, like your husband who,you know if he has skin in the game, so to
speak, which is I have a relationship withthese folks, he's much more likely to say,
Hey, your meal today just didn't bring it.
Versus, eh, just not gonna do it again.

(52:41):
'Cause you don't haveany kind of relationship.
There's no connection there.

Yeah.
It's the unknown too.
You don't know how they're gonna reactto you, whether you're gonna waste your
time or you're gonna sit there waitingto talk to the owner for 10 minutes
by the counter while the staff getshim, or if he's even gonna come out.
So like that if you remove thatunknown because you already have
met the owner or whatever you care,or you've been there multiple times
and that's a whole different thing.
What are you seeing, Simon, onyour travels in the US as far as
hospitality goes and how is itdifferent than Europe or is it the same?

Simon Neal (53:06):
Yeah, I mentioned with the check-in experience, that
was the main touchpoint for me.
And that was all the same.
It was all good.
Very impressive, easy, nice engagement.
How are you doing?
Do you need help with anything?
I haven't had really any contact beyondthat, but it's also a bit different
because I'm not a paying guest.
I'm here helping out working,but I think it's similar and I

(53:29):
think the level is pretty good.

Do they tend to come around the campsite in Europe to greet people or.

Simon Neal (53:37):
Certainly not a GM.
No way.
I've never seen a GM ever in all my time.
I think the main touch points you haveare any amenities, shop, stuff like
that, or the children's entertainment.
Team are around theCampground all the time.
They're engaging with the parents,you wanna come this activity?

(53:58):
And that's the maininteraction, I would say then.
But no, I've never had a manager comearound and, Hey, how are you doing?
What's your feedback?
Yep.

I think that just goes to show how impactful that could be though.
Whether it's in Europe or the UnitedStates, or a handwritten card or whatever.
But yeah, it's.

I think it's extremely impactful.

Yeah.
No argument here, Jayne.
Yeah.
All right.
We are running out of time here.
So final thoughts from everybody?
Jayne, you wanna go first?

I just wanna thank you for inviting me to be a guest.
This is a first time experience for me,and it was fun and I learned from it,
and so I'd be happy to come back again.

Is it really your first time on the show?

Yeah, it's my first time.
And I've known you sinceyou entered the industry.

Interesting.
We'll blame Sharah for that one.
She's listening.
She's a real person.
That'll prove it.
Simon, final thoughts?
I'm kidding.
Sharah, by the way.

Simon Neal (54:53):
No, I think it was just a nice discussion today.
Nice to catch up with everybodyand yeah, industry wide, I think
it's all quite positive at themoment from what I can feel.

Awesome.
Thanks for being here Simon.
And where can they findout more about Camp Map?

Simon Neal (55:08):
Yeah, campmap.com.
Pretty easy.
All information there to getin touch with us or a search
on LinkedIn, things like that.
We're easy to find.

And Jayne, I forgot to ask you wanna share where they can
find Campground Consulting Group?

Right there.
campgroundconsultinggroup.com.
Awesome.
Rafael.
Final thoughts.

My word of the season is cautiously optimistic.

That's everybody's word.
Come up with a new word, man.
That's the RV industry's word too.

Yeah.
So I'm really hopeful thatwe see a good season, figure
out what our new baseline is.
I'm excited.
The Blue Water team has neverbeen more aligned and ready
to embrace the year as a team.
So we're super excited across ourentire portfolio, across the country.
Encourage you to come visitany one of our properties.
You can find our website.
It's www.bwdc.com.

(56:00):
Yeah, that's where I'm at and thanksfor having me on again, Brian.
I love being here.

Yeah, thanks for being here.
Rafael, and Scott, last but not least.

Scott Bahr (56:08):
Yeah, look for some new data to be coming out in the coming days.
On attitudes, behavior, what's going on.
I look forward to the rest of the summer.
We're, that's gonna be comingout via the KOA channel.
They sponsored this research.
So they would say, just keep watchingon LinkedIn is usually, one of the
better places to see those releases.
You can always go to my website,which is carinconsultinggroup.com.

(56:29):
We have a resource library that we tryto post a lot of the reports that come
out that we do, the ones I've done withBrian, as well as the ones with KOA.
So that is my final thought.

Awesome.
Thank you guys for being here foranother episode of MC Fireside Chats.
If you're not sick of tired of hearingof me, and Scott, yet we'll be joined
by our fellow co-host Greg Emmert.
In about an hour here, alittle bit less for Outwired.
We're gonna be talking about the futureof PMS software and marketplaces and how
those are gonna change and whether youeven need 'em at all in a future where
AI's gonna book everything for you.
And then we'll talk about photos andvideos and how everything's not real

(57:01):
and it's fake any, and you have to payattention to that as a Campground owner.
So interesting discussions on Outwiredlater if you're not sick and tired of us.
Otherwise, we'll see you nextweek on MC Fireside Chats.
Thanks guys.
Appreciate you.

Alright, bye.

Simon Neal (57:11):
Bye-Bye.

Thank you.

Scott Bahr (57:12):
See you guys.

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MC Fireside Chats - June 4th, 2025

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