MC Fireside Chats - May 28th, 2025

On May 28th, 2025, another insightful episode of MC Fireside Chats unfolded, hosted by Brian Searl of Insider Perks and Modern Campground. This particular session was dedicated to the RV industry and outdoor recreation, bringing together a panel of recurring experts and special guests to dissect current trends, share operational experiences, and forecast future developments. Brian warmly welcomed the audience and introduced the day’s lineup, setting the stage for a comprehensive discussion that spanned from high-level industry statistics to on-the-ground business strategies. The episode featured its regular contributors from the RV Dealers Association (RVDA): Eleonore Hamm, President of RVDA of Canada, and Phil Ingrassia, President of RVDA of the US. Eleonore outlined her association’s focus on education, advocacy, and ensuring the profitability and sustainability of Canadian RV dealers. Phil echoed these sentiments, highlighting the US RVDA’s mission to support dealers and collaborate with manufacturers and suppliers on initiatives like the Go RVing program, which promotes the RV lifestyle in their respective countries. Their presence provided a crucial overview of the North American RV market landscape. Joining the seasoned regulars were two special guests making significant waves in their local outdoor hospitality sectors. Ilia Smirnov, owner of Cape Fear River Adventures and the Cozy Heron Glamping Resort, was introduced first. Located near Raleigh, North Carolina, Ilia’s businesses offer a unique blend of river-based activities and distinctive glamping accommodations. Following Ilia, Lisa Green, the General Manager of the Decatur Wheeler Lake KOA Campground in Alabama, shared her experiences. Lisa described her campground as an activity-driven destination, emphasizing her journey into the industry and the strategies she has employed. The discussion kicked off with an industry update from Phil Ingrassia and Eleonore Hamm. Phil shared that April’s wholesale RV shipments in the US saw a pleasant 4% increase compared to the previous year, though he noted that retail sales for April were not yet available and had been lagging slightly, with March retail sales down about 14% year-over-year, indicating an inventory build-up as dealers prepared for the season. He acknowledged that consumer sentiment, influenced by job prospects, the stock market, savings, and gas prices, plays a significant role in RV sales, predicting that the year would likely end up similar to the last. Eleonore Hamm provided the Canadian perspective, noting a similar trend where wholesale shipments outpaced retail sales. She explained that Canadian dealers had been rapidly building inventory due to concerns about tariffs and counter-tariffs, particularly the 25% counter-tariff on US-manufactured motorhomes that came into effect on April 9th, though towables were fortunately excluded. This uncertainty led to a cautious approach from dealers, with new unit sales down about 10% year-over-year by the end of March. Eleonore elaborated on the complexities of these tariffs, linked to HS codes where motorhomes are classified under automotive, and mentioned ongoing advocacy efforts to government to remove motorhomes from this tariff. Both Phil and Eleonore agreed that the late spring and early summer period is crucial for sales volume. Shifting to consumer behavior, Brian Searl inquired about RV ownership and usage. Phil Ingrassia revealed that data on RVs in operation, a proprietary number, has been growing consistently, even through the pandemic and beyond. He estimated that the number of RVs in operation has increased from around 3.5 million in 2010 to over 6.5 million currently. This indicates that people are holding onto their RVs and renewing registrations. He also mentioned that Go RVing research shows many pandemic buyers have developed a fondness for RV travel and intend to continue, debunking some fears of a mass exodus from the lifestyle....

Episode Transcript

Brian Searl (00:45):
Welcome everybody to another episode of MC Fireside Chats.
My name's Brian Searl with InsiderPerks and Modern Campground.
Super excited to be here withyou guys all for another week.
We're gonna talk RV industry Outdoor Rec.
We've got a couple of our recurringguests here that are always here.
Eleonore Hamm from the RVDA of Canada, andPhil Ingrassia from the RVDA of America.
It sounds so weird still sayingof America, I don't know how

(01:08):
I'm gonna ever get past that.
I was born in Americaand now I'm in Canada.
I don't know.
Anyway, thank you guys for being here.
Appreciate it.
And then we got two specialguests here who are joining us.
We have Ilia.
I can't pronounce your last name.
I don't wanna butcher it.
Say it for me.

Ilia Smirnov (01:21):
Smirnov.

Brian Searl (01:22):
Smirnov.
Okay.
I have also have bad eyes.
Oh, it is Smirnov.
Okay.
Sorry.
I have bad eyes.
It's signing on my screen.
Owner of Cape Fear River Adventuresand the Cozy Heron Glamping Resort.
Gonna share some informationabout that with us.
We're gonna talk to him abouthis resort and his adventures.
I'll have you introduce yourself in asecond, Ilia, and then Lisa Green from
the Decatur Wheeler Lake, KOA Campground.
Welcome guys.

(01:42):
Appreciate you all being here andgiving us a little bit of your time.
Do we wanna just go around the roomand Eleonore and Phil, you can start
and just introduce yourself for the,I don't know, one or two people on
earth, who don't know who you are?

Eleonore Hamm (01:54):
I'm Eleonore Hamm.
I'm president of the RVDealers Association of Canada.
We obviously represent dealers across
canada and goals for our associationor education advocacy and just trying
to ensure that our dealer membersare profitable and sustainable.

Phil Ingrassia (02:09):
And I'm Eleonore's counterpart in the us Phil Ingrassia,
president of the RVDA of the US.
We have very similar goalsfor both organizations.
Our mission is to help dealers.
And we also work with themanufacturers suppliers on various
other projects including the GoRVing program here in the US.

(02:31):
And then Canada's got their ownGo RVing program to promote the RV
travel and then the RV lifestyle.

Brian Searl (02:37):
Is there an RV D of Mexico?

Phil Ingrassia (02:40):
No.

Brian Searl (02:41):
I think you should start that, Phil.
Like you look really tan today.
That's why I was.

Phil Ingrassia (02:45):
Yeah, I've been out in the yard working last weekend, so.

Brian Searl (02:49):
It might be a good retirement gig when you decide, like obviously 30
years from now you're still young, but

Phil Ingrassia (02:53):
Right.

Brian Searl (02:54):
Okay.
And then we have Lisa here.
Lisa, do you wanna introduce yourselfand briefly about your Campground?
We'll go into more detailabout it, of course.

Lisa Green (03:01):
It's a great day at KOA at Willer Lake.
My name's Lisa Green and I'm thegeneral manager here, and we run
an activity driven Campground.

Brian Searl (03:11):
Thank you, Lisa.
I appreciate being here.
Excited to dive intothat a little bit more.
And Ilia Smirnov.
Sorry I didn't see your name.
I was blind.
Welcome.

Ilia Smirnov (03:21):
Thank you.
Yep.
My name is Ilia Smirnoff, owner andoperator of Cape Fear River Adventures
in Cozy Heron Glamping Resort.
We're located kinda about 30, 40 minutesoutside of Raleigh, North Carolina.

Brian Searl (03:33):
Welcome, sir.
Appreciate.
It's been a couple years since I'vebeen to Raleigh, but I did like it,
like I seem to remember there waslike some kind of indoor party center
we had an event at for Arabic orOHI, the convention there one year.
Anyway, thanks for being here.
Appreciate it.
So before we get to our special guestsand talk through a little bit about
their stories and things that they havegoing on Eleonore and Phil, is there
anything that's come across your desk?

(03:54):
I guess we were talking prior to theshow about maybe just an industry
update from you guys as to , I thinkwe, we haven't done it in a few months.
But what's happening in the industry,shipments, retail sales, anything that you
guys would like to share from both a USCanadian perspective or wants to start?

Phil Ingrassia (04:10):
Sure.
I'll kick it off.
The April wholesale shipment numbersthat RVIA compiles came out this
week and pleasantly surprised thatretail was up about 4% in April
compared to April of last year.
There's been well-documented concernabout consumer sentiment and RVs certainly

(04:32):
are driven by how people are feelingabout their job prospects, stock market,
their savings, gas prices, all that.
Things are hanging in there.
It's gonna be a very similaryear to last year, I think,
when it all is said and done.
I will say that we don't havethe retail for April yet.
And retail is lagging a little bit.
I think dealers are building upa bit of inventory and Eleonore

(04:57):
can talk about the challenges thatthe Canadian dealers have faced.

Brian Searl (05:01):
Are you willing to share with us some retail numbers for March?

Phil Ingrassia (05:05):
Yeah, it was down about 14%, I would say.

Brian Searl (05:09):
Year over year?

Phil Ingrassia (05:10):
Retail was up about 14%.
So there's certainly aninventory build going on.

Brian Searl (05:15):
Yeah.
But that's obviously like we'restill recovering a little bit.

Phil Ingrassia (05:18):
And we're getting into the season, so dealers are stocking up.

Brian Searl (05:21):
For sure.
Eleonore.

Eleonore Hamm (05:23):
Yeah, it's actually pretty similar here.
The wholesale shipments werehigher than retail sales.
You have a unique situation whereby, thedealers in Canada were building inventory
very rapidly because of the concern ofthe tariffs and the counter tariffs.
So between February, March andApril, April was ninth was the
date when the counter tariffson motor homes came into play.

(05:44):
But fortunately towableswere excluded from that.
So that's really good.
But there was so much uncertainty.
So I, when you look at the wholesaleshipments, that's pub that are published
from RVIA, they're up it'll be interestingto see how the rest of the year goes
because I know our dealers, if they'rein motorized, are probably not making
any additional purchases at the moment.
Because 25% additional cost tomotor home is could put the units.

Brian Searl (06:07):
Significant.
Yeah.

Eleonore Hamm (06:08):
Yeah, it's significant.
So there was the buildup of inventory.
We're seeing, sales were down.
We, again, have the statsto the end of March.
So year over year we're down about10% new unit sales from year prior.
So again, it's small numbers, right?

Brian Searl (06:24):
Yeah.

Eleonore Hamm (06:24):
There's not a lot that gets registered necessarily in that timeframe.
So we're hoping thatthings are picking up.
Consumers were a little bit concerned,consumer sentiment price point.
Just the uncertainty I thinkhas made people potentially
postponed their purchase decision.
But at the same time, we're hearinganecdotally from the Campground
industry here that, bookings are strong.

(06:46):
So I think people will bepurchasing and going RVing.
It just probably be apretty flat year this year.

Brian Searl (06:52):
Yeah.
And that's okay.
We have to have flat years.
We can't be up forever always right?
We could be, it would be nice, right?
But what comes up must comedown is what I was always told
since I was a little child.
But so for clarity for the Canadian, andI don't wanna touch on this other than
the one question, but for the tariffs.
Towables are currently exempt,but motor homes are not.

Eleonore Hamm (07:09):
Correct.
Yes.
So.

Brian Searl (07:10):
I don't, why about that conclusion?

Eleonore Hamm (07:12):
Because it comes down to HS codes, which are duty codes.
And motor homes are asubcategory of automotive.
And so that's why a lot of thecounter tariffs and tariffs were
removed, but there are still thefentanyl tariffs going south on auto.
And then as such, there arestill counter tariffs coming
into Canada on the automotive.

(07:33):
So it's any component or any partthat even if it's UZMA compliant or
US MCA compliant, so like the freetrade agreement if it's compliant
with that, there is a tariff on the USmanufactured component or part of it.
So if it's anything that's notCanadian or not Mexican built,
we'll have the 25% tariff.
So as most of the motor homesare primarily built in the US.

(07:56):
And as much they would get, a25% tariff on that part of it.
We're encouraging our dealers towork with their customs brokers
'cause it is a little bit confusing.

Brian Searl (08:05):
God bless both of you.
I don't have the patienceto deal with all this stuff,

Eleonore Hamm (08:08):
And we're, advocating and having some pretty
strong messaging to government.
Government is back in sessionthis week finally since, January.
So hopefully we can start having somemeetings and trying to remove the motor
homes from that code and that tariff.

Brian Searl (08:22):
Cool.
I'm looking forward to it.
Okay, so that, I promise that wasmy only question related to that.
With the retail sales, I'm curious, isthere a time of year that you look to
where you think you could gauge a moreaccurate prediction of how the rest
of the summer sales season would go?
And here's the reason I ask that becausewe've been looking at this heavily on
the Campground side wondering, how is,obviously we just went through Memorial

(08:44):
Day in the states and we had May longweekend in Canada the week before that.
And I've heard anecdotesfrom multiple people.
Some are up, some are down, someare flat, some are, it depends
on the type of camper they have.
But I think we're all waiting fordown here from a transient standpoint
is the kids get outta school.
Which is gonna happenreally in two, three weeks.
And then we're gonna, I think,really have a clear understanding

(09:04):
of how this season is gonna gofor average for a lot of people.
So is there any kind of date thatyou're looking at there to say,
now I have a really accurate pulse?
Or is it just all over the map?

Phil Ingrassia (09:17):
In the US I know that really right now
we're right in the beginning ofthe season for most of the US.
You look at April, may, June intoJuly for kind of the bump in retail
where a lot of the volume is done.
Of course, it's not likethat for every dealership.
Certainly dealers in Florida, Westernsouthern California their season is not as

(09:41):
I guess cyclical as it is for Northern andMidwestern dealers and dealers in, even
in the Northeast and Pacific Northwest.
So it's still really, the volumes for mostof the country are driven in this early
summer period, late spring, early summer.

Brian Searl (09:58):
Anything to add, Eleonore?

Eleonore Hamm (10:00):
Yeah, it would be the same for us.
This is peak season and I would sayusually by the time we get to June stats,
the thing is our stats are a bit lagging.
So like we would get June dataat the beginning of August.
By then we would have a pretty good.

Brian Searl (10:12):
It's a little too late to correct for summer.

Eleonore Hamm (10:15):
But it is difficult to make those adjustments, so.

Brian Searl (10:18):
Is there any data that's being collected, like
we hear, we talked about retailsales, we talked about shipments.
Those are obviously importantindicators, both dealers and to, as
a guideline of where the industry isgoing in the future from RV purchases.
But there's obviously like millionsof people who still own RVs and who
are still using these to go Camping.
Is there any indication of people notrenewing their regular registrations?

(10:42):
Is there any data on whether people areusing these as frequently in the summer,
whether they're, 'cause you have to renewyour registration every year, right?
Like a car.

Phil Ingrassia (10:51):
Correct.

Brian Searl (10:52):
Is there any data on that?

Phil Ingrassia (10:53):
Yeah, there is.
And it's called it's frankly, it's aproprietary number from a company that
collects all registration data for allmotor vehicles in the US and the RVs
and operations number has actually beengrowing through the pandemic and beyond.
So people are tending to holdonto their RVs and renewing.

(11:18):
We lose some.
But that, that base number, when Istarted looking at the, that base
number, I'd say about 2010 or so,we were right around three and a
half million RVs in operations.
We're well over sixand a half million now.
Okay.
And so that takes into account thisbig gain that we had throughout

(11:40):
after the severe financialdownturn of the late two thousands.
We had pretty much uninterruptedgrowth with a couple of
exceptions through the pandemic.
And then we had the pandemic bubbleand Go RVing Research shows that
many of the pandemic buyers like RVtravel, they want to continue to camp.

(12:02):
And some of the doom and gloom, oh,we're gonna lose all these people.
That just hasn't, thatjust hasn't occurred.
So we are adding to the, I guessthe installed base of RVs even when
we have little downturns in sales.

Brian Searl (12:18):
So recognizing, you said the numbers proprietary and you probably
don't wanna say it and that's fine.
You can just refuse toanswer any question I have.
Which is okay.
Are they up year over year?

Phil Ingrassia (12:27):
I haven't seen the year over year numbers.
Usually I get them at the end of the year.
But it is a proprietary numberthat company sells this data.
You can imagine.

Brian Searl (12:36):
Yeah.
That's why I'm not asking you to say it.

Phil Ingrassia (12:38):
To have all the registration data that goes through.
They do share a top line number with us.

Brian Searl (12:44):
Is there any sense, last question about this, is there
any sense of how much of thatnumber came during the COVID boom
of the six and a half or whatever?

Phil Ingrassia (12:54):
We sold about a million and a half RVs in North America that time.
During that time.
We've never seen those numbers.
Basically double what we're selling now,the peak of the pandemic in 2021-2022

Brian Searl (13:09):
So we almost want more pandemics, Phil or

Phil Ingrassia (13:13):
No.

Brian Searl (13:14):
Okay.
Okay, so.

Phil Ingrassia (13:14):
Nobody wants that.
No.

Brian Searl (13:17):
Pandemics where people don't get as sick, but
still wanna go crazy and buy RVs.
How about that?

Phil Ingrassia (13:21):
No, we were in a fortunate position because,
people wanted to be outside.
They wanted to be in a containedenvironment with their family.
RVs fit the bill.
They couldn't go on a cruise.
You didn't wanna go to a resortdidn't wanna go overseas.
So boom, that's what happened.

Brian Searl (13:42):
Oh, where did I go?
Did I just disappear?

Eleonore Hamm (13:44):
You?
Yeah, we lost you for a second.

Brian Searl (13:46):
That's fun.
I've having weird issues with the internethere, where it like, just go off during
the show happened the last two weeks.
Anyway.
Any other data that you guys would liketo share with us before we move on to
our special guests that you can thinkof, that's important to highlight?

Phil Ingrassia (13:59):
No, I think I think we've covered it.

Brian Searl (14:02):
Okay.
Who wants to start first?
Lisa or Ilia?

Ilia Smirnov (14:07):
Oh, I'm glad to start.

Brian Searl (14:09):
Alright, Ilia spoke up first.
So Ilia, you own two different businesses.
Cape Fear River Adventures andCozy Heron Glamping Resort.
Which one was first?

Ilia Smirnov (14:17):
Cape Fear River Adventures was kind our flagship for, we have
about five companies around build aroundthe river operations, but we have 14th
year of Cape Fear River Adventures,which is Canoe, Kayak, Paddle Board
Rentals, River Tubing and we gonna,between Raleigh and Fayetteville and
Fort Bragg, central North Carolina.

Brian Searl (14:39):
I'm trying to look up as I talk to you on a map here,
because I've been down there and Iwent whitewater rafting with like my
super young stepdaughter years ago.
I don't think it was Cape Fearthough, I think it was somewhere
else nearby, but it was a pretty bigrapids place there in North Carolina.
I can't remember.

Ilia Smirnov (14:55):
Was that in the mountains or Raleigh area?

Brian Searl (14:59):
It wasn't in the Raleigh area.
It was in Western North Carolina.

Ilia Smirnov (15:03):
Okay.
Yeah western part of the statedefinitely got a fair share of rafting
companies and rafting opportunities.

Brian Searl (15:12):
Yeah.
I can't remember the name of the city,but anyway, it was just like super, it was
like class two, it wasn't anything crazy.
Obviously I was with my stepdaughter.
She was like seven yearsold, I think, at the time.
But anyway, it's fun.
I enjoyed the area and beento North Carolina many times.
So talk about Cape Fear Adventures first.
How did this come about?
How did you decide that this wasyour thing that you wanted to start?
A river, is rafting, I'm assuming.

Ilia Smirnov (15:32):
We used to do some rafting.
Mostly we offer on self-guided trips.
A lot of it takes place onflat portions of the river.
And so we arrange you out canoe,kayak, paddleboards and you go at it.
And probably our most popularoffering is the Lazy River tubing.
And people hop on the tube and stayvery lazy for, up to five hours is

(15:56):
what usually takes to cover thatriver section that we operate on.
And yeah, but it started back in 2012 outof all places, me and my wife found the
small business for sale on Craigslist andseemed like that was a very fascinating
and then, the business kept growingevery year and took us for quite the

(16:17):
journey of outdoor businesses and living.
It's been a good journey.

Brian Searl (16:23):
I will admit, I've done one of those, I guess they're
more float trips than rafting iswhat you're talking about, right?

Ilia Smirnov (16:28):
Yeah.

Brian Searl (16:29):
I did one of those on the Bow River up here, I live in Calgary,
and so they have those where you cango the floating three to four hours.

Ilia Smirnov (16:35):
Yeah.

Brian Searl (16:36):
It's through the city, but then, but yeah, and
then they come get you at the end.
Like I thought the first time that I didthat, one I was gonna get really sunburnt,
but, and then two, that it was just gonnabe boring for me 'cause my mind always
has to be active, but it was really quitepleasant and interesting and relaxing.
And we took my little Yorkie dogwho's laying right next to me.
But it was more interestingthan I thought I'd been.
'cause I'd only ever been on likerapids and stuff like that before.

(16:58):
But yeah, it's a great wayto chill out and relax and.

Ilia Smirnov (17:04):
That's exactly right.
And I think a lot of people, findthe experience you described exactly
that it's gonna coming out and beingsomewhat lazy and enjoying your
friends and maybe a couple beveragesand just spending a day on the river.

Brian Searl (17:19):
Phil, was it really yard work or were you on a float trip?

Phil Ingrassia (17:22):
I wish I was on a float trip.
It was pulling weeds and cutting grass.

Brian Searl (17:28):
At least your yard looks better now, right?

Phil Ingrassia (17:30):
That's correct.

Brian Searl (17:31):
I never, yeah, I had to hire somebody to do that.
I'm too lazy, Phil.
But so Cape Fear Adventures turnedinto, are they on the same property?
Is the glamping resorton the same property?

Ilia Smirnov (17:42):
Yeah.
So Cozy Heron came around.
We are now in a third year of operationsand we worked for a few years to get
this resort opened and it enabled provideadditional, obviously, services to our
offerings and we were able to move on tomulti-day destination having a restaurant

(18:02):
on premises and of course, things to do.
And now we introduced lodging, whichwas in a form of Conestoga wagons
and so that we opened that in 2023.

Brian Searl (18:15):
So how did you determine there was, I guess my question is enough
demand for the, you talked about a couplevarious things, but specifically for
the glamping resort, because there area lot of business owners out there, I'm
sure, who are in similar positions toyou, not necessarily owning float trip
companies, but owning something thatis loosely tied to outdoor adventures
or activities or, bike rentals, boatrentals, all those kinds of things who are

(18:36):
looking at opportunities like glamping andsaying, could that be a right fit for me?
So how did you determine thatglamping was the way you wanted to
take your business and expand it?

Ilia Smirnov (18:46):
I think several factors came together to make it all possible.
Overall I was always interested inas we were developing our operations
and offerings, I was interested in amulti-day destination as a concept and
having operated a restaurant that, atthis point we no longer operate, we have

(19:07):
a third party who takes care of that now.
But it seems like we have all theducks in a row to, to introduce
some sort of lodging operations.
And we had a opportunity, we had afairly large several acre field with a
river front, but it was in a floodplain.
And so for a long time I wasconsidering to build more standard

(19:28):
cabins per se, but they would haveto meet, of course the flood codes
and all the requirements around it.
And on one of the trade shows, I cameacross Conestoga wagons and seems
like that's when the light went onand seems like that was the answer
to a lot of the challenges that Iwas facing to move into that space,

(19:48):
given the property that we had.
And so once I saw the wagon, I walkedinside of one and I was like, man,
this is it we're gonna do this.
And then of course, nobody believedme, sure enough, about three years
later we opened for operations, so.

Brian Searl (20:03):
Nobody ever believed you.
That's the point of beingan entrepreneur, right?
It's the people who don't believeyou, that aren't the entrepreneurs.

Ilia Smirnov (20:09):
Yeah.
And we allocated right in town andbut I think that the property, it's
a riverfront experience and youcan walk to our river operations, a
hundred feet away from your wagon.
You can walk 150 feet to therestaurant so you can really come to
the property and have a full, whetherit's a weekend family experience.
That's generally what wetarget our target market.

(20:32):
Even though we get, folks of all kindsfrom military base to corporate outings
to, college kids and everybody in between.
But I think, a lot of families reallyenjoy to get out and we see this
glamping experience as a bridge.
We get a lot of customers whohave never experienced outdoors,
maybe never been Camping before.

(20:54):
Being outside, can beintimidating for some folks.
And I feel like we're providingjust a bridge experience that yeah,
there might be some discomforts, butthey're not gonna be like full on.

Brian Searl (21:04):
Yeah.

Ilia Smirnov (21:04):
Outdoorsy discomforts, you still get your AC and a king size
bed inside one of those wagons, but ifyou happen to see a bug crawling, that's
because it has a canvas on top of itand they do climb inside sometimes, even
though we do our best to prevent it.
And we also try to familiarize folks andthat's part of the experience, and that's

(21:25):
what makes glamping is kind this hybridexperience between full on Camping and
something more with more modern comforts.

Brian Searl (21:34):
You have a hybrid between glamping and RVing, I think.
'cause I think the Conestoga wagonsqualify as towables Eleonore, if you
wanted to bring them in without tariffs.
But I think that would be a goodbargaining gig to see one of the
giant Ford Lightning trucks towinga Conestoga wagon down the highway.

Ilia Smirnov (21:50):
Yeah it was quite the sight because frankly I had to do just
that and I had to tow those wagonswhile we were organizing the resort.
They were in storage and at some givenpoints I had to tow 'em to like trade
shows or eventually when we were settingit up and I literally had people stop on
the highway, take pictures and wave atme while I was going seven miles an hour.

(22:10):
But it was a fun experience.

Brian Searl (22:13):
Yeah.
I think Camp Spot did a study thatsaid this was the year of nostalgia.
I think that just fits rightin, bring back the Oregon trail,
be adventurous and interesting.
I used to play that game in school.
Did you guys have that inschool or am I too young?

Ilia Smirnov (22:26):
Yeah.

Brian Searl (22:27):
Too old, young.
I don't know.
Okay, so then what kind of resultshave you seen now that you've got
the glamping resort up and running,you've got the Conestoga wagons.
Have you seen that have animpact on the other businesses?
Have people done longer floattrips or multiple float trips?
Have they done, obviously they'reprobably eating more at the
restaurant that's a given, right, but.

Ilia Smirnov (22:46):
Yeah, I think we're right on track to provide the experience
that in a way we intended to provide.
And so folks come out, they rentthe wagon for, sometimes one night,
sometimes two, sometimes three, likethis past Memorial Day weekend and yeah.
And absolutely some families willget on the river once other families
will be on the river, for multipledays doing different things, going

(23:08):
from tubing to kayaking and maybeeven trying different river sections.
But so far, I think also huge benefitis that we are very local to major
frankly inside major metropolitan area.
So the experience that you mighthave had with your daughter when
you guys went to the mountains,would require, five, six hour drive.

(23:32):
Where for our experience, a lot of theguests we get, they're 20, 30 minutes
away and they jump in the car andthey just want a change of scenery or
maybe change of experience, and theycome down the road and stay with us.
And that happens quite frequently.
So I think the experience that we'reable to introduce in the area is

(23:52):
very unique, very much in demand.
People curious about outdoors.
People want to be outdoors and, I thinkagain, that gap that we're filling with
this bridge experience, also connectingthem to explore the river more and
just, when you're spending multiple dayson in a riverfront facility, I think
that natural feature in Harnett Countyis just gonna draw your attention and

(24:15):
draw your interest and you'd be moreand more familiarizing yourself and
eventually drawn to be on the river.

Brian Searl (24:22):
Oh yeah.
That's where I'll eventuallybuild a house on the river, man.
I gotta have water.
Like rivers are my first lakesare my second oceans are my third.
But the water it is interesting becauseyou put yourself like, probably not
intentionally, but you are in a placethat, like you said, is outside of a
major metropolitan area like Raleigh,which I think in somewhat in some cases

(24:43):
will maybe not recession proof you, butcertainly make you much more recession
resistant than a more rural Campgroundthat people have to drive to glamping
resort, river adventure or somebodywho's on the way to somewhere else.
I think those are probably the parksthat I'm most concerned about getting
data for 'em from a Campground glampingperspective side is, are people
taking the longer trips this year?

(25:04):
Are they staying closer to home?
There's a lot of data that saysthey're staying within 50 ish
miles, or, sorry, I'm up in Canada.
I don't even know the kilometerequivalent to that, but like
60, 70, 65, something like that.
I think there's a lot of data.
So what have you seen so farfor your business this year?
Has it looked

Ilia Smirnov (25:20):
well and, to your point, which is very hard broken
and was somewhat involved with theaftermath of a hurricane Helene.
And, unfortunately Helene had a majorimpact on a lot of the rivers in North
Carolina and a lot of the similaroperations, whether it was guided
services on rivers or some of the resorts,glamping resorts and other similar

(25:42):
businesses that were heavily impacted.
Some were shut down, some are stilltrying to figure out how to move forward.
And to your point that generally peoplewould be packing up, driving to the
mountains for those experiences wherenow in some ways those experiences are
limited and potentially closer to home,qutlet is also somewhat in a higher

(26:05):
demand knowing that, you might not haveto drive five hours to get outdoors.
And there are those are things thatright in your backyard just a few
minutes away and still be able to geton the river and have great experience.
That was kind a fairly majorevent that happened in the last
year and having impact on us.
And so it does on the businessesin the western part of the state.

Brian Searl (26:29):
Yeah.
The impact of multiple things, right?
Like you always want to have thatimpact on the local businesses.
Where and when I say local,that could be like, I was on
Vancouver Island a few weeks ago.
Could be Canada as a country or a wholeas a United States, like local instead of
traveling overseas, but you always wantthat local impact, hopefully with, there's

(26:49):
a way to balance that with the peoplewho are recovering from such an event
like Helene and get their business back.
And then still people like thelocal stuff and that stuff.
And so that's what Ithink everybody hopes for.
But it is interesting how sometimes,like we never want a disaster.
We never want a pandemic, as we talkedabout earlier, but sometimes those
things can encourage you to discoverlike what is so close and right in your

(27:11):
backyard that you often don't look for.
Vancouver Island was a good example.
We were up in, I dunno if you've everbeen Eleonore, but in Port Hardy.

Eleonore Hamm (27:18):
Yep.

Brian Searl (27:18):
And we were and the guides up there were talking about what
happened during the pandemic and it wasall so just crowded into these like 35
people towns that have no parking lotand nobody knew where to go or what
to do, but everybody was coming upfrom Vancouver and from Victoria and
just they couldn't go anywhere elseoutside off the island for a while.
But they discovered that and like it'sslowed way back down now, but I think

(27:39):
still that appreciation is there forHey, we have this in our backyard.
All right, Lisa, let'stalk to you for a second.
Decatur right on the water.
I'm looking at you on amap in Alabama, right?

Lisa Green (27:53):
Yes, sir.
We're at Willer Lake and it is a damed uplake that's right off the Tennessee River.

Brian Searl (28:00):
So talk to us about your KOA, what do you have?
You have any glamping cabin rentals?
Obviously you have RV sites.

Lisa Green (28:06):
Yes, we have primitive tent sites.
I have water and electric tent sites,RV sites, and we have five cabins.

Brian Searl (28:15):
And how long have you been there as the general manager?

Lisa Green (28:17):
I started as a general manager of a Campground.
A really bad timing onJuly 2nd of last year.

Brian Searl (28:24):
It is pretty bad timing.
Okay.

Lisa Green (28:26):
Yeah, and I had never done anything like this.
I have 37 years in food and beverage.
So yeah, to start on July2nd was quite interesting.
Of course the Campground is completelyfull and I have zero experience.
I mean, I have experience Camping,but not running a Campground.

Brian Searl (28:45):
But they're already there.
It should have been alittle easier, right?
Like, they're already there,they're already in their site.
They're already like,we're gonna have fun.
Go shoot some fireworks.

Lisa Green (28:52):
I figured it out in a hurry.

Brian Searl (28:55):
So what was the biggest challenge that you had to overcome
coming into a situation like that?

Lisa Green (28:59):
They didn't have any kind of leadership for about three months.
And the leadership that theydid have, weren't very customer
service or hospitality driven.
So there was a lot of recoveringof relationships, with the staff
and the community for sure.

Brian Searl (29:20):
Okay.

Lisa Green (29:20):
That was probably the biggest challenge, that just takes time.
Takes time to go out and meetpeople and look 'em in the eye
and shake their hand and apologizefor the behavior of somebody else.

Brian Searl (29:31):
Yeah.
And that's hard because it wasn'ta you thing, but, and you're not
apologizing for an action you did.
Sometimes I have a hard enough,hard time recognizing when
I've done something wrong.
I need to apologize myself, let alonego and apologize for somebody else.
We all make mistakes, but, but talk methrough the short term though real quick.
Like what, was it like?
I don't wanna say wakeup on July 2nd right.
But wake up on July 2nd, Hey,it's July 4th and now it's mine.

Lisa Green (29:54):
Yeah.
Well, like I said, coming from food andbeverage and running all those businesses,
to the slower pace of a Campground,even though it's busy, it's not like.
Busy every minute like it is ina restaurant or a bar scenario.
So, was like, what do we do now?

(30:14):
And what do we do now?
Like I thought I should be doing.

Brian Searl (30:17):
You're like, nothing.
Everybody's here.

Lisa Green (30:19):
Right.
that wasn't the case.
So, in a hurry that a lot of theCampground kind of runs on its own
and it's mainly about, maintainingand, the guests and having a
good time yourself will help theothers have a good time and relax.

Brian Searl (30:34):
So what are some of the things now, you've been
in it almost, year now, right?
A little bit short, 11 months.
What are some of the things that youthink you have learned across your
journey as general manager of the KOA?

Lisa Green (30:46):
One of biggest things I learned is that, for
me, in this particular area,you need community support.
Come in and do activities or daypasses for that auxiliary income
so that you can keep the Campgroundat the standard it needs to be in
and afford to buy the things thatcampgrounds need, withers it away.

(31:08):
That's one most importantthings that I learned that.
I took this job so I could havea quality life and slow down.
And it definitely is doing that for me.

Brian Searl (31:19):
Good.
I'm glad to hear that.
I'm curious, you talked a little bitabout  auxiliary income, like selling the
lake passes and things like that, right?

Lisa Green (31:28):
Yes.

Brian Searl (31:28):
That wasn't in place before you started, or.

Lisa Green (31:31):
Well, literally, I have a pretty large city within 15 minutes of me.
And I have even bigger citieswithin 40 minutes of me.
And the numbers showed that only2% of locals were coming out here.
So they were depending on a hugeamount of people to come into an area

(31:53):
that really isn't very well known.
Number is 98% locals that come out here.
So you could only imagine how much thatincreased my day passes, or my canoe
rentals, or my kayak rentals, jet skirentals, boat rentals, rope courts and
zip line and all that kind of stuff.
All that money is necessaryfor a Campground like this, so.

Brian Searl (32:16):
And I think that's an important thing that
we've been kind of home to.
And I'm on the Campgroundside than the RV side.
We do marketing for about500 parks and some KOAs.
The corporate marketing team, butit's been the things that we've been
talking to our clients about is goinginto what appears to be a down economy,
there's to differentiate yourself.
People are still gonna go RVing,they're still gonna go Camping.

(32:36):
They might not buy the new RVs or goto the fanciest RV resorts temporarily.
Right?
They are still gonna wanna do that stuff.
So then how do you setyour Campground apart?
How do you make yourself different?
And how do you focus on  auxiliaryrevenue like that, like jet skis
or boat rentals or, lake passesor things like that to both raise

(32:57):
your income and diversify yourself.
Super important in a economy orone where like there's not many
people going Camping in COVID.
'cause they have to choose between,obviously KOA as a brand is different
than other campgrounds, but evenif they're choosing between KOA's
or different resorts, what isthe thing that sets you apart?
So I think, I would love to hear yourthoughts on, if there's any amenities

(33:19):
you added, if there's any amenitiesyou're still considering adding for
auxiliary income and how you chose those.
Because I think that would be helpfulfor some of our audience to hear.
Like obviously you're on a lake, right?
So you have a built in advantage, but

Lisa Green (33:32):
Well, I am very outside the box and I know this area pretty well.
I'm an hour and a half south of Nashville.
I'm 40 minutes from MuscleShoals, and both of those are
very, large music communities.
Right.
I planned a huge music festival.

Brian Searl (33:53):
Okay.

Lisa Green (33:53):
That only has local bands.
So actually my first annual one is goingto be Saturday the seventh, but there'll
be like just 10 local bands and that's it.
Local vendors are coming out,local food trucks are coming out.
To get people and all of this is incomethat we weren't gonna have, right?

Brian Searl (34:15):
Yeah.

Lisa Green (34:15):
I have very small payout to pay for the music because
I did just choose local bands.
And then my profit is all the, youknow, we have sponsorships too,
so my profits all in t-shirts andcoozies and renting all the stuff
and buying stuff in the store.
And that festival sold out my entireCampground, every single site, including

(34:38):
all the tent sites in two months.
And I started planning this and openingit up and putting it out there in January,
because nobody's Camping in January,but I need income to come in January.
So January and February, I had allthis income come in that I could
use to carry my labor and everythingthrough until season started, and

(34:59):
then I could build up the money thatI need to pay the bands and whatnot.
So.
that for me.
And then not only that, it's bringinghundreds of people out here that even
though I'm in their backyard, likeyou said, they have no idea I'm here.
So, gonna be great for theCampground and for the community.
I'm really excited to do stuff like thatfor the community and to give something

(35:24):
for local people to do in the area thatthey don't have to travel far to do.

Brian Searl (35:28):
So if you look at.

Lisa Green (35:30):
Is like one of the best like auxiliary incomes,
you could absolutely have.

Brian Searl (35:35):
So if you look at the typical KOA owner or typical Campground
owner, I don't wanna stereotype people,but how would you recommend that they
approach the, how do I figure outwhat to add as  auxiliary revenue?
Obviously, again, let's justdiscount the lake for a second.
'cause that's an advantage or thatyou have, that's common sense.
Right.
But it's easier to figureout than a music festival.
So how would you recommend a typicalowner kind of go analyzing their area,

(35:59):
looking at cities that are nearby,kind of the demographic and trying to
come up with some things that couldhelp boost their revenue in those ways?

Lisa Green (36:05):
Well, for I definitely am a people person, so I went out into the
community and talked to the communityabout what they may be interested in
seeing out here and how could this parkbecome a venue to support what's going
on in the area, whether they be farmer'smarkets or fall festivals or like that.

(36:27):
I definitely joined theChamber of Commerce in five
counties that surround me.
I go to those meetings,I talk to those people.
I'm Involved in my personalCampground social media.
I'm on it all the time.
You Have to get informationfrom every source that you can.
And those sources, we're in a worldof change and constant change.

(36:51):
So those sources change all the time..
10 years ago it was MySpaceand then Facebook, and now it's
Instagram and Twitter and TikTok.
And you have to keep up with all thosethings so that you could not only
figure out what your target audience is,but reach them on a consistent basis.
My Facebook page, gets almost200,000 hits a month, which shows I'm

(37:14):
putting forth a lot of effort there.
My Instagram is probably 25 becauseI'm 53 years old and I haven't got
to know Instagram yet, my pointthat's a market I'm missing because
I haven't put the effort into it.

Brian Searl (37:28):
Yeah.
But you.

Lisa Green (37:28):
It's like any business you put the effort in, you're gonna get it out.

Brian Searl (37:32):
For sure.
Some small slice of bad effort,but generally I agree with you.
But my question is then how do you,I'm not sure you quite answered what I
was going after, so let me start there.

Ilia Smirnov (37:43):
Okay.

Brian Searl (37:43):
How do you, obviously there's all these things that you
have to pay attention to as a generalmanager, as an owner, as an operator,
whatever role you are in, right?
But if I look at like you're lookingat, like you talk about Facebook and
Instagram, Instagram be somethingyou're still catching up on.
It's a market you're missing, you'rechoosing to prioritize Facebook
probably 'cause both, you know itbetter and there's perhaps a bigger
audience there that is your demographic.

Lisa Green (38:05):
Right.

Brian Searl (38:06):
So how do you pick and choose that?
How do you pick and choose amenities?
How do you say, here's all theseshiny things over on this side.
I'm gonna pull this one out and do itfirst and this one out and do it first.
Do those well, and thenmove on to the third.

Lisa Green (38:17):
Well, it's definitely trial and error.
I have tried some stuff atthis park and it didn't work.
Tried it consistently because youhave to try things consistently.
So I didn't just win at everything.
That's a hard question to answerbecause like, I try pop up market and

(38:38):
nobody came for five weeks in a row.
So I had to move on, triedlive music out of the blue.
I was like, maybe I'll try live music.
We have a stage here, why not?
And then week after week thatbuilt and there was 70 people there
instead of just two the first night.
So I was like, oh, this might besomething I could carry on with.
Like the rope course and thezip line and stuff like that.

(39:00):
it's trial and error, so.

Brian Searl (39:01):
Go out and try something, figure out if it works or not.
If it doesn't, you failed and youlearned a lesson, try it again.
Try something, notsomething different again.

Lisa Green (39:10):
Right.
just a whole different path, you know?
But, like I said, I've neverbeen a Campground manager.
This is my first time, so Iprobably do more trial and error
than others may, because I don'treally know about it quite yet.

Brian Searl (39:25):
But sometimes that's good, right?
Sometimes knowing toomuch can be an impediment.

Lisa Green (39:31):
True.

Brian Searl (39:36):
Oh, there we go.
I disappeared again.
That was fun.

Lisa Green (39:38):
Welcome back.

Brian Searl (39:39):
Anyway, so, but knowing can sometimes be an impediment, right?
So, you know and you don'tneed to know anything else.
And so I think sometimes a freshperspective and fresh set of eyes is good.

Lisa Green (39:50):
I agree.
And I think always be willingto think outside the box to make
money for your business, don'tbe scared to try something.

Brian Searl (39:59):
Ilia, was it all roses for you?
Did you succeed oneverything you tried or.

Ilia Smirnov (40:05):
That would be Nice, wouldn't it?
I mean, I can relate to everythingof course you're saying.
And that was part of the journey,you know, I think right now we're
operating five different companies,the recreation and some things
worked, some things didn't work.
You know, like the restaurant onpremises, we were in it and operated
for six years and decided that theline of services that we're not really

(40:26):
interested in, rather outsource it.
Whereas for example, we were thefirst, company to introduce River
Tubing in Central North Carolina.
And we had a lot of feedback, negativefeedback in the beginning that
the river, this is not gonna work.
It was too low to rocky, tooslow and all kinds of things.
But, you know, and we tried it and,last of July we got over a thousand

(40:46):
people on that river in a day.
So something works and something doesn't.
And, fully relate that as anentrepreneur you try, sometimes
it works, sometimes it doesn't.
And you try something else, so.

Brian Searl (41:00):
For sure.
Absolutely.
Where do we wanna go from here?
Is there anything we didn't talk aboutyour KOA, Lisa or Ilia about your glamping
resort that you guys wanna talk about?
That's me, that's my lazy question.
Probably can't thinkof anything right now.

Eleonore Hamm (41:15):
You know, what I think is interesting is that it never would
occur to me to look at going to aCampground for activities if I were
not necessarily Camping there, right.
Like I would just assume,oh, it's the Campground.
Their activities are for the peoplethat are Camping there or staying there.

Lisa Green (41:32):
Yeah.

Eleonore Hamm (41:32):
It wouldn't have been something that I would've thought,
oh, let's go see a music festivalthere, or take your ropes course
or, so I think it's something.
I camp a little bit, not a lot, but Ithink it's, you know, just educating
consumers that you don't necessarily haveto be there to be Camping, to utilize
some of the services and activitiesthat you're putting on at your property.

Brian Searl (41:51):
Yeah, that marketing piece for sure is, I mean, me being a marketer,
like that marketing piece is so important.
It's like the whether adding a musicfestival or you're adding boat rentals,
or you're adding Conestoga wagons,or you're opening up a restaurant or
whatever you're doing, that marketingpiece to both, if you decide to go after
the general public to let them knowthat you're here, you're available, you
have something exciting for them to do.
They don't need to own an RV.

(42:13):
They don't need to, perhaps insome cases stay in a glamping
resort or a cabin rental.
They can just come out for the musicor they can just come out for the
lake or they can just come out for arestaurant or whatever it may be, right?
Or the river adventures or trip.
But that marketing is so critical, andI think there's so many people who put
thought into what they're doing, justlike you did Lisa and Ilia with the

(42:33):
Conestoga wagons, who put that thought in.
But then maybe don't close theloop on, well, how do I actually
market that and present thatand package that in such a way.
Like, it's easier on a river,it's easier on a lake, right?
I've said this multipletimes, but it's not foolproof.
That doesn't mean it justautomatically works 'cause
you're on a river and on a lake.
I think is missing from a lot of themindsets of, there has to be a concerted

(42:56):
effort behind that to give the messagethat you want to give to the consumers.
Whether it's day use like Eleonorewas talking about or whatever.
I mean, I look at these GoRVing commercials, right?
And a lot of the RV commercials havelike, two to five seconds of the
30 as an actual RV and the rest ishaving fun outside and enjoying the
adventure and which is important, right?

(43:16):
But it would be interesting sometimesto maybe see an RV commercial that
showed activities at a resort ora Campground or things like that.
Not saying that that's necessarily agood use of the ad budgeting for Go
RVing, but it would be interesting ifa Campground could produce a commercial
like that or something like that.
Right?

Lisa Green (43:34):
I think if we don't.
Campgrounds don't do more activities, welose that market from 12 years old to 18
years old because they don't wanna, it'sboring to them to go just sit in front
of the camper and watch the water go by.
Or you can only play so manycards with mom and dad or whatnot.

(43:57):
But if we keep it interesting, thenwhen these people get older, they'll
buy these RVs that we need them to buyand they'll keep the industry going.
But if they grow up and theythink, oh, well, camping's boring,
why would I wanna buy an RV and,spend all this money to be bored.
So if we make things like this moreinteresting for that generation, it will

(44:17):
definitely help the whole RV community.

Brian Searl (44:21):
Yeah.
And that's a whole notherthing with a long game, right?

Lisa Green (44:23):
Right.

Brian Searl (44:23):
There's so many people who aren't willing to play.
Or don't think about the long game.
Mostly, I think aren't willingto play the long game because it
takes so long to get here, right.
What is happening now, likeyou're talking about with the
kids who are on the campgrounds.
Are they just playingcards as mom and dad?
Maybe whether they win againstmom and dad probably impacts
that perception a little bit.
Or mom and dad kicked their ass.

(44:44):
but are they playing on the playgrounds?
Are they taking the boat rentals?
Are they going out on thekayaks with mom and dad?
Are they, I don't, Ilia, what activitiesdo you have at the Glamping Resort?
I'm thinking of restaurant.
I'm trying to use a Oh wellthe River Adventures, right.
Are they going on River Adventures?
Sorry.
Float trips, with mom and dad,is what escaped me for a second.
Because those things are gonna impact,like you said, whether they not just
like buying RVs is certainly importantand we want them to do that, and they

(45:06):
will do that as a result of that.
But also, will theycontinue to go glamping?
Will they continue to bring theirkids and their friend's kids and tell
more people about that experienceto bring them into the industry?
It's so interesting, I think even me, frommy perspective, how rare it is for me to
put myself in into other people's shoesand think about that kind of long game.

(45:29):
And Phil know, like I'mdeep into the AI stuff.
I was listening to Sam Holtman theother day, say that people between
generations are using AI completelydifferently, whereas like a Boomer or
a millennial will be using it to askquestions and just gain information.
Gen Z is using it to literallymake all their life decisions.
Like major life decisions, right?

(45:50):
But this is where it's going to go.
Those people are going to growup and they're going to ask
the AI, should I buy an RV?
What type of RV should I buy?
What type of model?
And that's impact the actualdecision versus the information.
And so it's gonna become more impactfulto play that long game in many ways.

Lisa Green (46:10):
Yes sir.
And they'll be quicker to buy if theyhave a memory of Camping or glamping.

Brian Searl (46:17):
Yeah, because they'll have more of a trust in the experience, right.
They'll know what that was.
They'll have a frame of reference.
Obviously the models will evolveand those will be different.
And who knows what we'llbe dealing within 20 years.
When Gen Z's ready topurchase their first unit.
But, that kind of still Campingexperience will be the same.
So

Phil Ingrassia (46:33):
Right.
There a lot of debate within theindustry about the value of program
spending, marketing money onprograms for kids and young adults.
And had we made some of thoseadvancements, you know, 20 years
ago when they first came up, whoknows what would've occurred.
But I think certainly the research showsthat people who camped with their family

(46:58):
or their grandparents or what, howeverthey camped as younger folks, they are
much more predisposed to buy an RV, orgo to private or public campgrounds.
It's just, it's off the chartscompared to people who don't do it.
So it's definitely worth, I think,the industry investing in those
types of programs like you guysare doing to get, people outside.

(47:18):
I mean, that's the main thing.

Brian Searl (47:20):
Do we have a sense of whether those numbers
are going up and down at all?
Because I know the stereotype is, kidsare always on their devices now and
they don't want to go outside and theydon't, I don't think that's as true
as people say it is or perceive it is.
So do we have a sense of whether there'smore kids who are going Camping with
their families or less kids in research?

Phil Ingrassia (47:39):
Well, there's, there's concern.
I think some of the outdoorindustry research is showing
that people are participating ingeneral more in outdoor activities.
But some of the research is showingthey're not as involved as far as
getting into it like big time deep.
Like, I got a son, he loves to fish,but he's not like totally obsessed

(48:01):
with fishing like I used to be.
So that's one of the thingsthat research is showing.
And they're trying a bunch ofdifferent things and kind of seeing
what sticks more than they were maybe.

Brian Searl (48:12):
I think that's almost in some ways Okay.
Or even in some ways better.
Right?
It's a similar to the entrepreneur whotries and fails and tries something new
and fails and then tries and succeeds.
If they find the thing by trying fishingor trying kayaking, or trying float trips
or trying whatever, then when they findthe thing, they're like, oh, I need to do

(48:33):
that like once a month or whatever it is.
Then they're more attached to that.
It's more sticky.
It's still probably, hopefully going tobe an outdoor related adventure that can
be linked to Camping and RVing, but Ithink that ends up making it more sticky.

Phil Ingrassia (48:48):
Yeah, and where I'm going with that a little bit is some of the
outdoor equipment companies make mostof their money as people go up through
the chain, they buy more expensive gear.

Brian Searl (48:59):
Yeah.

Phil Ingrassia (49:00):
So they're really concerned about people just trying it for
a little bit and then getting out of it.
So that's kind of where that research is.
Like you say, make it more stickyso that they buy a cheap pole and
then they go up to the Orvis stufflater on, that kind of thing.

Brian Searl (49:15):
Yeah.
Or they just need needmore people like me.
I'm the person who's like, I'm gonnathe best gear possible and I'm gonna
try to learn how to go skiing andthen I'm gonna fail and it's gonna sit
in the closet for the next 15 years.

Phil Ingrassia (49:25):
Yeah.
Put it in the shed

Brian Searl (49:26):
I bought high in gear

Phil Ingrassia (49:27):
and it never sees the light of day again.

Brian Searl (49:29):
Yeah.
'cause I wanna make surethat it's me, right.
I wanna that I go in that adventure.
And it wasn't the rod thatcaused me not to catch the fish.

Phil Ingrassia (49:35):
I hate to say it, it sounds like my expensive bike
rack that I have sitting in my shed.

Brian Searl (49:40):
Yeah.
We got a couple minutes left here.
Lisa, final thoughts?

Lisa Green (49:44):
Not really.
Enjoy a day outdoors.
You'll remember it.
That's my last word.

Brian Searl (49:53):
Good remember it or bad remember it.
There's all kinds of ways that could go.
Anyway, thank you Lisa, for being here.
I appreciate you so much.
Ilia, any final thoughts?

Ilia Smirnov (50:03):
Well, first of all, thanks for having me on
the show and nice discussion.
As a outdoor, enthusiast and owner, wewill continue kind of trying to introduce
new things and find new ways to getfolks outside just at the end of the day.
We all know the benefitsand the joy that it brings.
And again, thanks forhaving me on the show.

(50:25):
And, joy of outdoors will keep spreading.

Brian Searl (50:27):
And where can they learn more about your businesses?

Ilia Smirnov (50:29):
Of course, online, we got all the social media presence and,
website is capefearadventures.com.

Brian Searl (50:36):
Thank you Ilia.
Appreciate you being here.
Lisa, I would've askedyou the same question, but
everybody knows it's koa.com,
so.
koa.com.
Lisa, do you want to, and you'reon obviously social media.
You have big presence on Facebook.

Lisa Green (50:48):
Yes.

Brian Searl (50:48):
Go follow her on Instagram.
Make her pay more attention to Instagram.
Eleonore any final thoughts?

Eleonore Hamm (50:55):
Well, no, thank you very much.
I learned lots today.
It's always nice to hear from theCampground industry to compliment
what we see on the RV side.
So thanks for including us.

Brian Searl (51:04):
Phil.

Phil Ingrassia (51:05):
Absolutely.
No, it's great to talk to people thatare making it happen on the ground.
Love to hear it.
Congratulations to your success too.
It's great to hear.

Brian Searl (51:14):
Awesome.
Well, thank you all forbeing here, Phil, Eleonore.
Appreciate it as always.
Lisa and Ilia a great conversation.
Appreciate you guys spendinga little bit of time with us.
And for those of you who are not sickand tired of hearing from me, I'll be
on another podcast in about an hour orso called Outwired with Scott Bahr from
the KOA data reports, the North AmericanOutdoor Hospitality reports that he does.
We'll be talking about somedata trends and insights.

(51:35):
We're gonna actually break down thetype of people who go to campgrounds,
into really granular niches to figureout if you should be marketing to those
based on your area and how you reachthem and how you talk in their tone of
voice instead of just kind of want RVsto come, or I want boomers to come,
or I want long term or short term.
So I think there's some valuein that, and we'll be starting
that probably in an hour or so.
But other than that, thankyou guys for being here.

(51:56):
Really appreciate it.
We'll see you next week on anotherepisode of MC Fireside Chats.
Take care.

Phil Ingrassia (52:01):
Thank you.