February 27, 2024 • 40 mins
In this episode Andrew discusses the importance finding healing after a painful Church and family situation.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello everybody, welcome once again to the MC
squared podcast.
My name is Andrew McNeill andI'm joined with my cohost, jimmy
McKenna.
Yes, so this is episode 22.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I don't know why either, but we're still counting
.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
So anyway, follow up from last week's last show.
If you're watching on YouTube,just click one video over.
It was when we had our wivesover for the Valentine edition
and that went really well.
It was actually well received.
I think people like to watchand listen to our wives more
than they like to listen to us.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
They obviously bring in the audience that we don't
yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Like everybody else.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
So what else?
What does that mean?
I don't know I'm okay with itthough.
Yeah, yeah, it's fine.
Yeah, we definitely married up,didn't?
Speaker 1 (01:06):
we yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I'm just, you know, I don't know.
I want to apologize for mycomment that I made about lovers
.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
We can't do that, never mind, that would be cut
out.
That would be cut out, notcutting it out.
We're just back for an encorewhat?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Okay, well, you cut those laughing out.
I want to be real clear this isa PG Parental guidance or
probably less of a rating on apodcast and I don't know where
your mind goes when it comes tothe lover, comment Good Lord,
(01:52):
but that was not what I meantAll right.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
It kind of was Well, you are married to her.
If you watch this, thing back.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
if you watch this thing back there was a long
pause it's almost like when youturn 40, your brain like
sometimes stops working andyou're just like like Joe Biden.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yeah, 40.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, well, he's weighed, yeah, but anyway, I
just kind of blanked and I waslike that's just what came out.
Yeah, and so you know that thisis.
We don't do a lot of editing,If you don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
No, and I you know.
If you don't know what he'stalking about, go back and watch
the last episode 21, episode 21.
Watch all the way to the end.
And we actually are stilltalking when it says stay tuned
or something, because we had amiddle section that didn't get
recorded video wise but theaudio was going and we didn't
(02:46):
realize it until we went back toback to the house.
So anyway, it was again.
It was a lot of fun.
I'm sure we'll do it again somesometime sometime we will.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
I mean it's whenever we need more viewers right.
Whenever the viewership startsto drop, we bring the wives on
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
It'll boost it a little bit.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
They'll watch a couple more in decreasing amount
of minutes each one, and thenwe'll lose them again.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
So, yeah.
Well, I did have a.
I just had one thing I wantedto talk about tonight.
Again, it's a huge subject.
I don't know how much we'll getinto it because I don't want it
to be a very long show and butit is.
I have a personal story with itand then I think it might be an
(03:30):
issue that a lot of folks canrelate to or that have
experienced it in their life.
One of the things I've realizedis, the longer you live, the
more perspective that you getand the more obviously I mean
it's kind of a stupid thing tosay the more experiences you
have, but the wider, the wideryour experiences are in life and
(03:53):
you start to relate to otherthings.
And specifically what I'mtalking about is dealing with
either church hurt or goingthrough an abusive leadership,
an event where there's a termcalled spiritual abuse and a lot
(04:13):
of people aren't familiar withthat, but it's a very real thing
.
I know.
Before we went through our,andrea and I were a part of a
fellowship run by my family.
I was a part of leadership andwe were.
We were what you would callworkers.
I mean, we were there all thetime.
(04:34):
We were.
I was on the worship team, wewere, I was an elder, we were I
preached.
From time to time, we mentoredpeople in our homes.
I mean we did a lot.
We did a lot of spiritualevents, conferences, things.
I mean we just did a lot ofstuff and then in retrospect you
(04:55):
start looking back and anyway,it ended, it went south, it
didn't end well and there was alot of abuse from my parents my
mom in particular and spiritualabuse, a lot of manipulation, a
lot of attempting.
She was threatened by healthypeople around her.
(05:15):
She wasn't a healthy,spiritually healthy person
herself, so she was threatenedby anyone who was healthy or
strong themselves, even her ownkids, which is just crazy.
And so there was a lot of anattempt to keep us down.
So I was accused constantlyduring the 15, 20 years that I
(05:36):
was there, of being rebelliousand full of pride, and it was a
continual thing.
Where I would, I would, I wouldbe repenting for it.
I'm so sorry, god, you know,take this out.
And then I couldn't quite ever,you know, put my finger on
exactly when I was actuallybeing rebellious, because I
(05:57):
never felt rebellious and pridewas anytime I had an opinion or
I said anything.
That was immediately pride,which was manipulation, it was
an attempt to kind of squashyour voice.
So it went south.
About eight years ago came to ahead.
I was, I was actually startingto really see things as being
(06:18):
extremely unhealthy.
And we we, even though we werevery spiritually active, we did
all the things as unto the Lord,so we had a walk with the Lord.
We weren't doing it to pleasemy mom, I wasn't doing it to
please the church, we weregenuinely fervent people and
(06:38):
from what I've understood abouta lot of folks who who
experience spiritual abuse, it'salmost always those people and
that's what makes it so, so sad,because they're they're
genuinely want whatever God hasfor them and they're they're
genuinely trying hard.
So anyway, it went south, wentterrible.
(07:00):
We got basically disowned byour family, shunned from all the
, all the people we'd mentoredor were friends with, and in to
this day they want nothing to dowith me.
I had another brother, joseph,who was in with me at the same
time and they did the same thingto him.
He was actually a half owner ofa business with my dad and he
(07:21):
basically had to walk away fromit.
And they they moved to Texas,are very successful raising
their family and a business downthere and and then we moved to
tear hope.
This is about eight years ago.
Anyway, god's, god's done anamazing thing in our lives and
he's, he's restored, he's healedus.
(07:43):
It probably it probably took.
It probably took a good fiveyears of God walking us through
a process of deprogramming, andand so one of the things I
wanted to talk about and thereason this has come up Is
because there's been some andthere almost always is Jimmy
(08:05):
there's almost always the lateststory of some spiritual leader,
who, who either wasn't who theysaid they were, or or they're
one way in front of the camerasand there another way behind the
scenes, and so it's just kindof come to the forefront a
little bit.
And so one of the things Iwanted to talk about was was
(08:27):
just kind of the importance ofgetting whole once you've come
through a situation like that,and and I've seen a lot of folks
who've posted on social mediaor whatever different steps that
and all of them are good, butit's kind of like when you lose
someone or you experience agrief, everybody's gonna grieve
differently and everybody'sgonna get whole differently, but
(08:50):
the important thing is that youdo get whole.
Yeah is that you come to a pointwhere your Christianity isn't
Bankrupted because you've had ahorrible or horrific experience
at the hand of someone that youshould have been able to trust
so so.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
So back to Spiritual.
You call the spiritual abuseright.
Yeah.
So what if and I'm not sayingthat this is my situation at all
, but I mean from a lot ofpeople's perspective what if?
You said I Don't think I'veever experienced that before.
Sure, what I mean, and it isAre they, is there some, is
(09:32):
there is some aspect ofChristianity that they're not
diving into?
Or are they?
Are they on the surface?
Are they just in a really goodplace for a church?
Speaker 1 (09:44):
I mean hopefully they're in a great place.
I mean my hope and prayer isthat not everyone would have to
go through spiritual abuseobviously yeah.
It's, it's, it's very similarin ways.
If you think about, you knoweither, a spouse that has been
abused by another spouse?
Well, it happens, it's very,it's prevalent.
(10:05):
But but I mean, surely you knowthere are healthy marriages out
there.
There are a lot of a lot ofpeople who have not experienced
that, thank God.
Yeah, and on prior to being onthe other side of this, I
remember there was a book thatcame out about spiritual abuse
and I scoffed at it, even thoughI was in the middle of being
(10:28):
manipulated and being.
I was actually being slowlymanipulated, controlled and
abused.
But I, I thought in my mindsetand this is the way you're kind
of programmed those people are,those people are just rebellious
.
They're rebellious to authorityand they want to say that it's
abuse when somebody tries totell them what to do.
(10:49):
That that is literally themindset that I had and, honestly
, back in the old you know place, they still believe that.
I mean they.
They probably think you knowthat I have a problem with being
told what to do, or theyprobably think I'm just so proud
that I, you couldn't work withanybody, which is They've been
(11:10):
programmed a lot of thingsthey've had.
They were actually told I foundthis out that I wanted to take
over the church, that I wantedthe church which is Really I
opening to realize that your ownmother would lie so badly about
you because the confrontationwas about them trying to force
(11:33):
us to go to every little meetingwhen the when I I mean I felt
from the Holy Spirit I wasn'tsupposed to go and they kicked
us out of leadership over it.
And then she keeps hearingthese voices telling her that I
am trying to take over thechurch and I'm like, and that I
was Whatever it was and I wasjust glad not to be going to
(11:54):
church, let alone try to takeanything.
I've never, never, had a designon the church.
So that was a completefalsehood and she knew it.
But you have to cover yourself,because if you tell the truth
of what the confrontation wasover, it's gonna make you look
terrible.
How in the world are you losingyour sons, your own kids, who
support you and love you, ifthere isn't something wrong with
(12:15):
I mean, there's something wrongthere.
So we left, and this is the onething you realize is, if you,
you're coming out of an abusivesituation, it's very real, it's
very poor, it's very big to you.
But to the folks who are friendswith the abuser, even if,
though, they're not a part ofthe network of the abuse, they
don't see it and they're,they're gonna be kind of
(12:37):
standoffish.
They're not, they don't want toget involved, it's not their
fight.
And I understand.
I understand that at the timeit's a little bit hurtful.
You're hoping somebody comes toyour defense, yeah and?
And nobody did.
They.
They're just kind of, we loveyou both.
You know, whatever thissquabble is, you know you get it
, get it worked out of.
And that's sometimes a part ofthe hurt too.
A lot of folks that aredevastated by a church split or
(13:00):
Something that's that's happenedlike this, feel all alone and
they feel Like they might becrazy.
You know they might be goingcrazy, because that's a part of
spiritual abuse is that constantmental Gaslighting.
Where you're, you're constantly, you know you're living.
We, we walked out of thatsituation and we didn't breathe
(13:21):
a word to anyone and we thoughtwe were being spiritual because
of it, because, see, we weren'tgossiping, we were gonna be
silent.
We were, we were showing theway and that's all the
gaslighting, preparation ofmanipulation so that nothing
that was nothing that was wickedwas ever exposed.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, and I've only recently been speaking more and
more about this, maybe in thelast couple of years, and I
realize everything that's hiddenneeds to be exposed, it needs
to come to light and especiallyif there's no repentance on the
other side, yeah, and I just I'mreally interested where that
changed, because I think that,being inside of an, of a church,
(14:00):
it's really easy to take thosepeople who it's really easy to
get stuck in the way that you dothings and the way that you
Believe things should be done,and then, when people deviate
from that a little bit, you callthem outliers yes, whatever
they are, or the rogue orwhatever they are, and then you
separate them, yeah, so being onthe inside, separating, is so
(14:22):
much easier than being thatperson that steps to the outside
, that knows that they'regetting out of this Real, this
really toxic situation.
Yeah, so where did that flip foryou?
Like, was it a?
Was it one day, was it multipledays?
When did when did you andAndrea come to the realization?
Because it has to be a majormind change, yeah, like the, I
(14:43):
mean it has to be a major Godintervention, absolutely,
because you're essentiallytaking what you called your
family, yeah, and was yourfamily?
Yeah, and Do you attach,detaching yourself from it?
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Yeah, so Well, jimmy, one of the things that was the
biggest Shift and I open, Iopener for me was and and I
think Folks could relate to this, if they've experienced
gaslighting, if they'veexperienced mind games or
whatever is when I knew that.
(15:20):
I knew that I knew what I wasbeing accused of was 100% wrong.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
I knew it.
So when you say wrong, you meanin your mind, wrong against the
Bible, wrong against?
Speaker 1 (15:35):
No, I knew that.
So the accusation was that Iwas trying to take over the
church.
Oh, and I knew I was at thatpoint it was.
It felt like I didn't even wantto almost want to go to church,
let alone, let alone take itover.
So I knew it was 180 degreeswrong.
(15:55):
Yes, it was completely theopposite.
And the accusation was comingfrom my own parent.
Yeah, so that thatconfrontation happened, the
rejection, that that happened.
My dad called all the folks inthe church and he told them that
we were under the severejudgment of God and that anyone
(16:17):
that got close to us was goingto be like the sons of Korah in
the Bible that got swallowed up.
When you know the rebellionthat was exposed with.
Moses, so none of them wouldtalk to us.
But the crazy thing is, ashurtful as that was and as scary
as it was, it was alsoliberating because you realized,
(16:40):
holy cow, this is an incrediblytoxic situation.
There isn't anything Christianabout this, there isn't anything
godly there's.
There's no such thing asfollowing the Bible when it
talks about how to, how to dealwith the sin in your brother.
You know, blah, blah, blah, allthis kind of stuff.
So it was, that was the the Iand I've told people this for
years afterwards.
(17:01):
The rejection was was difficultand painful, but it was a huge
mercy from the Lord because itreally did open my eyes.
And I had, because I'd been apart of this system, because
it's a system, it's not just youknow, it's a whole system of
stuff.
Here I had participated, I hadtreated others the way that my
(17:25):
mom had treated me, and youdon't realize it till you get
out of this situation and yourealize, oh my gosh.
So I had to spent a couple ofyears trying to make amends,
trying to restore relationshipsthat I had damaged through hyper
spirituality, through to, youknow, condemning, condemning
(17:46):
people, and one of the thingsthat cults or toxic churches
will do is they all list.
This is that they try toseparate the congregants from
their family.
Yeah, they just, it's just,it's a natural thing.
They just try to.
They're an exclusive group.
They have special revelationthere there is.
(18:06):
They're just a little bit morespiritual, a little bit more
holy than anybody else, and sothat that mentality was was I
had it and that mentality was inthat group, and so with anybody
would say, man, your, yourgroup kind of seems a little bit
cultish.
Oh my gosh, it played rightinto it because suddenly we were
(18:27):
persecuted for being sospiritual and it was just
spiritual, quote, spiritualwarfare.
So that was the turning point.
I knew then I had been insomething very, very bad and I
had hoped that maybe it wouldturn around.
And then God just clearly spoketo me.
And what's crazy is is he wasgracious and merciful to speak
(18:47):
to my wife on the same day, thesame word, and it was basically
you're done.
You're done here.
I don't want you in this, Idon't want you hurt anymore.
It's time for you to move on.
And From that date, that dayforward, we just began the
process of.
It felt like we were running forour lives.
We sold our house just to getout of there.
We relocated, had to get a newjob, had to get everything was
(19:12):
totally new and it was.
It was a quite a process ofgetting whole and and Both of us
were a little delayed.
I was relieved to be out ofthere.
My wife was in this fight orflight mode for a while and then
when we we finally got to asafe place is when all the
Honestly is like a form of PTSDbegin to set in for her, and I
(19:35):
mean she.
She was having close to panicattacks and just a lot of Trying
to process the devastation ofwe raised our kids there.
With seven kids, we raisedDefinitely the older ones.
This was their cousins, this isthe only life they ever knew
and they lost all of that and itwas I think it was hardest on
(19:59):
the older kids than it wasYounger and we were concerned
about the young kids.
You know cuz you know they'relosing grandma and grandpa's
there.
They're losing cousins, but itwas actually the older ones that
it was the most devastating for.
Yeah, I couldn't imagine thatwas eight years ago yeah, so
that was a little over it alittle over eight years ago and
(20:21):
we went to a local church here.
It was very big church I andvery big church and it's a
church you can go to and nobodyknows your name, which I was so
happy for.
I can't tell you the relief tosit in a church, hear a good
sermon, hear a short worshipservice and feel like you were
(20:45):
fed, feel like you went to achurch that you didn't get over
spiritual, you didn't getoverworked and there was nothing
, there was no requirements onyou.
You could just kind of rest.
And after a period of time Ithink it was about a year I
started reaching out because Iwas feeling the weight of what
we had gone through.
(21:05):
And I began to reach out to thepastors there and one of them,
the senior pastor, agreed tomeet with us and it was just
honestly, the love and thepatience and the help that they
gave us was just, it wasprecious.
It was just such a relief tohear that we weren't crazy, that
(21:28):
this was a common theme they'dheard this a lot, which was
really blew our minds and thatwe were just normal and it was
okay.
And I come from a super mybackground and, jimmy, you can
relate to this super spiritual.
When I mean super spiritual, Imean man.
(21:50):
We're laying hands on people,we're giving words of knowledge
and we're fasting and we'repraying and we're doing things
right.
So I'm expecting you I'm gonnaget whole.
Somebody's gonna have to takeme through some serious prayer,
lay hands on me and take methrough inner healing or
whatever.
And yet the greatest healing Iever had was just simply obeying
(22:10):
the Lord and walking with himevery day.
And he, the Lord, found ways toheal me and bring me into
wholeness over time.
And I remember I was walking inour by a rental house and just
kinda walking and I heard theLord repeat the line this is no,
(22:31):
but people are gonna listen tothis and they go yeah, yeah,
whatever, and God would never dothat.
Well, he did for me.
Repeated the line out of themovie when we are Marshall, when
you know the story of we areMarshall, I hate to say I do not
Okay so it's a true story.
But we are Marshall's great.
Matthew McConaughey plays thesecond coach that comes in, but
(22:54):
Marshall's football team crashesan airplane.
They all die, except for twoplayers, anyway.
So they're bringing in MatthewMcConaughey as this new coach to
try to rebuild the program.
Well, the whole community isgrieving, the whole school is
grieving.
The two players didn't make iton that flight are grieving and
they're a mess and they'regetting ready to start the
(23:17):
season that they're going tohave.
And he took them out to thememorial before they started and
he said let's grieve.
And then, when they were done,he said the funerals stop today.
And the Lord spoke that to me.
He said the funeral stops today.
So the grieving, all the loss,all of the woe is me.
(23:39):
It's good for a time, it'sright.
You should remember that, butthen it's time to live again and
God was so gracious to us.
So I guess what I'd like to dois just a couple of things, a
couple of things I'd like topoint out to people that have
gone through similar situations,and there, unfortunately, were
(24:00):
a wide swath of people that wehad hurt in the community.
Our old church had Jimmy, a lotof people that were left as
like debris, human debris, onthe side from our spiritualness,
from our Christ likeness.
So I wanna say first of all, ifyou're listening to this and I
(24:23):
haven't reached out to you, andapologize.
I am sorry from the bottom ofmy heart, no excuses.
Jesus would never act the waythat I acted, would never
operate out of that kind of aspirit, and I'm sorry.
So the thing that I would liketo say is, for anyone who's been
(24:46):
through something like that,whether you have been in
leadership at a church and thenyou poured your heart and soul
out to it and then they tossedyou aside when it was time for
either a new leadership orsomething else of the church
split, or whether you wereabused in some kind of a hyper
spiritual sense, where you gaveand you gave and you gave and
(25:09):
then manipulation would come andyou'd either lose your marriage
or you'd lose your parents, orwhatever it is is.
First of all, you're not crazyand the Lord loves you, and with
the Lord there is not aperformance.
That's right.
(25:31):
It's normal to be angry and toeven hate.
I hated anything that we haddone before good or bad
Practices that other churcheswould do that.
Even what was a hint, jimmy, ofwhat we had practiced.
I hated.
(25:52):
That's normal and that's okaynot to have to participate Like
it's okay not to fast.
It was okay not to do the crazyprayer stuff in the conferences
, it was okay, but and it's evenokay for a while I believe this
especially for, first of all,if you don't want to go to
church, it's okay.
But what is essential in mymind is not that you do the work
(26:17):
, that you continue to be aworker, but that you not say no
to the Lord.
I remember I went to this newchurch.
We went to what was called asoaking service.
Now, that's pretty funny,because in this church and I'm
not trying to knock it at all,but when you said in my old life
(26:38):
, a soaking service, I'm talkingsix hours of worship, that's a
soaking service.
This was an hour and we're outthe door, which is great,
there's nothing wrong with that.
So we go to this and abouthalfway through I mean I can
sense the Lord's presence.
I hadn't sensed him in a while.
I'd been in a dark place and Iwas.
(27:00):
I have to say I was veryresistant and I remember just
closing my eyes and saying, okay, lord, I don't.
I'm really hurt.
Hurt because this feels likethe old place.
It was so bad, but I don't everwant to say no to you, and so
(27:25):
I'm saying yes to you, notsaying yes to you know,
performance or raising my handsor doing anything that was like
the old place.
I'm saying yes to you and, lord, you can do whatever you want
with me, and that was a that wasa breakthrough and a healing in
my life and, honestly, theLord's kind of taken us through
(27:48):
certain things.
And so the other thing that I'dlike to say is it is certainly
okay and really good if you willtake the time and start to
reevaluate all of the thingsthat you have believed.
There is nothing wrong withthat.
Use the word of God and startto go.
Is this biblical?
(28:08):
Is this something Jesus did orwould do?
Is it so extra big biblical?
And yet we built an entiretheology on it and it's not even
in the word of God.
And there was a lot of that,jimmy, that we had,
unfortunately, there was a lotof it.
Now, I'm not saying thosethings are necessarily evil, but
(28:30):
they sure are not worth evenmentioning or bringing up, if as
far as a Christian walk, ifit's not even in the Bible.
So we questioned everything.
I didn't question that Jesuswas Lord.
I didn't question my salvation,I didn't question the basics of
salvation or my walk with theLord, but everything else and I
(28:50):
mean everything Just is thisreally biblical?
Is this in the word?
Is this something that and Ithink everybody has to go
through this process.
From what I've heard, this isthe typical cycle that happens
and the hope is, and the beliefis, that if you'll follow that
faithfully with the Lord, hewill get you back to a place of
(29:13):
wholeness and health.
And, honestly, we're in a very,very healthy church now.
I love the church we're in.
They are healthy.
I mean, it's the healthiestchurch I've ever been a part of
which is probably not sayingmuch, since my experience isn't
the greatest, but we love beingthere and the Lord has.
Just prior to coming, though, wedidn't walk in wounded, and I
(29:37):
think that's.
I think that's a testament tothe Lord.
And here's the cool thing it'sa testament to the body of
Christ, because we were hurt bythe body of Christ, but we were
Jimmy.
We were also restored by thebody of Christ.
We had people just pour outlove on us that we're Christians
, and so it's not fair.
If you've been hurt by a churchor hypocrite who's a Christian
(30:01):
leader or whatever it is, giveGod and His body another chance.
It's worth it.
I'm so glad we didn't throw thebaby out with the bathwater.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Yeah, and I I can't.
I can't imagine what, how yourlife would be different, andrew,
if you didn't have that timewhere you made, had that time
where you made that decision foryourself, because I think
(30:37):
that's what the Lord wants,Right?
He doesn't he.
This is not a relationshipbased on any other from the past
or the future.
This is us and him, yeah, and Ijust think that you have to
take it that serious.
And after that point in yourlife, when his eyes, when you've
(31:06):
locked with his eyes, there'sno other eyes that matter, right
, and I don't think that you canbe shaken after that.
And the body can build you atthat point, right, but the body
can't break you at that point.
I think that's where a lot ofpeople get, where they come in
and they expect the body tobuild them, but they have not
(31:29):
made him Lord of their life, notjust by words, but truly.
You are Lord of my life.
My relationship with you is A1tops.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
So that is a key point, because I've had a walk
with the Lord.
I knew the Lord, but whatyou'll find in a lot of these
toxic situations is that theleader will kind of be that walk
of the Lord for these peopleand some of the ones that
(32:02):
suffered shipwreck, faith-wise,couldn't feel like they ever
could hear the Lord anymore,because everything was coming
from this leader and they had torun everything by her.
Whether they bought or sold ahouse, whether it came down to
what movies they could watch orhow they should treat their
(32:25):
children, whatever it is,everything had to be approved.
And when you're doing that, youmay not realize it in that
situation, but you are turningfrom following the Lord and you
are following a person.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
And once you start exalting that person up closer,
then it feels good to ask them,because sometimes maybe you feel
like you're not getting ananswer from the Lord, but
there's a person right here thatwill probably give you an
answer real quick.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
I see, I absolutely know.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
You know what I mean yes, and I just think that
that's touching on some really,really scary ground once you
start to do that, and I thinkanybody who's been through a
church split can realize that.
Yeah, yep, yep.
So thanks, andrew.
Hey, andrew, did you hear aboutISU's new team they have?
So they're branching out in theMVC.
(33:15):
Did you know that?
Branching out in the what, theMVC, the Missouri Valley
Conference, oh, okay.
So they're playing really goodat basketball now right?
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Yes, yes, I know that I've heard that, so that's
awesome.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I really need to go to the game.
Gosh, I've been forever.
Could you get me some?
Speaker 1 (33:28):
tickets Kids would like to go.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
No, now I can't get tickets.
I could have got them last yearfor nothing, but no, I don't
know.
It's probably hard to get in.
I am an alumnus, that's great.
I went there on the five yearprogram with a four year degree,
if that means you know whatthat means.
Thank you, parents.
No, but they do have a new.
They have a new team.
It is esports.
(33:50):
They have delved in esports.
They've got a team.
That's actually.
You know what esports is?
I'm assuming it's a video game.
Yeah, they're video gamers, soit's truly something.
They're competing at theMissouri Valley Conference for
video games with a team Okay,and these guys put their name
out like they're proud of it.
I haven't seen a picture yet.
(34:12):
Let me ask you.
I have an idea of what.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Is this common?
Is this common?
Speaker 2 (34:17):
that colleges would do this.
Well, it looks like now,because it's the conference, so
it's a conference, so there'sother colleges doing this.
I mean, what's Missouri Valley?
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Are you getting credit?
Speaker 2 (34:26):
for this.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
I mean, do you have to have a good like a good?
Speaker 2 (34:30):
grade average.
In order to make the team, theygive scholarships at ISU.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
You can do pretty much nothing.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
You can do a scholarship for an esports.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
I don't know if ISU is a financial standing to be
giving scholarships for esports.
They're recruiting couchpotatoes to come on in here.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
I think they're taking yeah probably.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Yeah, that's probably it.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
No, they're play.
If you're interested, though,they're playing Nintendo
switches and they're playingSuper Smash Brothers.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
And I gave up my video game playing way too early
then, I could have, I couldhave done well.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
You could have went on scholarship for that yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
I bet there's done something.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
I bet there's actually more aspiring members
to that team than there areaspiring students in college.
I mean, once you're gone fromyour parents, you're in a dorm.
Yeah, and what else do you haveto do besides play video games?
Pretty much constantly.
The internet's good over there.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
You know, what I'm wondering is once there's a
schedule and you have to play agame, I wonder if the fun starts
to come out of it.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Well, it's probably like my brother does fishing
tournaments.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
He's like he's a professional, like a real
fishing tournament yeah, he doeslike real ones.
Like you pay to go in.
I knew a guy and I know I didthis yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
I know that it's not fun.
Yeah, it's work, it's serious.
I mean, because you have aclock and you have this, you've
got to go after it.
It's not like going out in thesummer and catching some fish.
Maybe not catching fish,whatever it's like, it adds a
level of stress to somethingthat's fun, so maybe that's what
this is for them.
It's adding a level of stress Imean their fingers must be
(36:05):
amazing.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
How fast they can do these moves right.
What do you win?
I mean, you're going to win atitle because you're not going
to get money for it, right, andyou're not going to get
girlfriends for it either.
You're my other boyfriends,other gamers, I don't know.
You don't want to bediscriminative.
Yeah, I mean, I don't thinkthere's going to be a groupie.
A bunch of groupies follow andthey'll like the basketball team
.
Maybe there is, who knows?
Speaker 2 (36:25):
I don't know what you win for this, and I hate to say
pride, because you've probablylost it all by that point.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Well, here's the deal , Jimmy.
I think we're showing that weare completely out of touch with
this generation.
I think that's what we'reshowing.
So one of the guests we'regoing to bring on and I'm not
going to say that this person'sname, but I did get confirmation
that they would possibly bewilling is a high school senior
at Terre Haute South and thisperson is going to kind of
(36:51):
explain the lingo.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Now this person has to come on, yeah they're going
to explain the lingo?
Speaker 1 (36:57):
I have no clue.
We tried to do that severalepisodes ago and it was fine,
but it was kind of like almostlike bad dad jokes.
Nobody thought it was great.
So this will be a legitimategenerational exhibition.
So we'll get an specimen, anopportunity to study this person
(37:17):
and to see what comes out ofthis person's mouth and what
this means we can ask normalreal world questions about it.
Yes, yes, so that maybe we'llget an education, or educate the
listeners.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yeah, at the same time, yeah exactly, we'll bridge
the gap.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Generational bridging of the gap, that'll be great.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
That's what we're here doing.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
That's right Bridging gaps generations.
Well, folks, once again, we wantto thank you so much for
listening.
Really sorry, I know the I meantwo thirds of this podcast is a
little heavy.
Tried to keep it as light aspossible it is.
I think it's an importantsubject that a lot of people
deal with.
It's something that's a lifeexperience and I felt like I
(38:01):
wanted to share that.
I hope it was helpful.
I hope it was overly depressingand, like we were talking
during the break, we were reallynot wanting to point anyone
away from church.
There are a ton, like I said, aton of good churches out there,
great godly people who love you, will love you and care for you
.
Absolutely, you need to findthem.
We just happened to have anexperience that wasn't good, and
(38:26):
that's not just church life,it's in.
You know.
You can have it in any kind ofrelationship or group.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
So Anytime you get deep and you make yourself
vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Yeah, I think that's it.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
But we're not saying that, not to do that, yeah, but
I mean it's.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
So, yeah, we want to thank you for listening.
If you've stayed this far,that's amazing.
Please like and subscribe belowand please share with your
friends.
We are on rumble, we're onYouTube.
I we post this video on X.
I'm going to have to quitmoving in my chair.
It's going to look silly.
We were on X, let's seeAnything else.
(39:07):
I think that's.
I think that's probably got.
Yeah, we put it out on Facebooktoo, but just the YouTube links,
so, but anyway, we reallyappreciate all of our listeners,
the comments, the critiques.
We appreciate the criticisms.
Believe me, we get them.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
They're helpful.
I'm not wearing a hat anymore.
My dad told me that that'sright.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Helpful, and that's why we're wearing our headphones
, surely so that you can hearJimmy, because I know that that
was important to you.
So, but anyway, folks, you havea wonderful evening, which of
course makes no sense becauseyou might be watching this
during the day.
So until next time we'll seeyou.
Hello everybody, welcome once again to the MC
squared podcast.
My name is Andrew McNeill andI'm joined with my cohost, jimmy
McKenna.
Yes, so this is episode 22.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I don't know why either, but we're still counting
.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
So anyway, follow up from last week's last show.
If you're watching on YouTube,just click one video over.
It was when we had our wivesover for the Valentine edition
and that went really well.
It was actually well received.
I think people like to watchand listen to our wives more
than they like to listen to us.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
They obviously bring in the audience that we don't
yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Like everybody else.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
So what else?
What does that mean?
I don't know I'm okay with itthough.
Yeah, yeah, it's fine.
Yeah, we definitely married up,didn't?
Speaker 1 (01:06):
we yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I'm just, you know, I don't know.
I want to apologize for mycomment that I made about lovers
.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
We can't do that, never mind, that would be cut
out.
That would be cut out, notcutting it out.
We're just back for an encorewhat?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Okay, well, you cut those laughing out.
I want to be real clear this isa PG Parental guidance or
probably less of a rating on apodcast and I don't know where
your mind goes when it comes tothe lover, comment Good Lord,
(01:52):
but that was not what I meantAll right.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
It kind of was Well, you are married to her.
If you watch this, thing back.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
if you watch this thing back there was a long
pause it's almost like when youturn 40, your brain like
sometimes stops working andyou're just like like Joe Biden.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yeah, 40.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, well, he's weighed, yeah, but anyway, I
just kind of blanked and I waslike that's just what came out.
Yeah, and so you know that thisis.
We don't do a lot of editing,If you don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
No, and I you know.
If you don't know what he'stalking about, go back and watch
the last episode 21, episode 21.
Watch all the way to the end.
And we actually are stilltalking when it says stay tuned
or something, because we had amiddle section that didn't get
recorded video wise but theaudio was going and we didn't
(02:46):
realize it until we went back toback to the house.
So anyway, it was again.
It was a lot of fun.
I'm sure we'll do it again somesometime sometime we will.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
I mean it's whenever we need more viewers right.
Whenever the viewership startsto drop, we bring the wives on
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
It'll boost it a little bit.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
They'll watch a couple more in decreasing amount
of minutes each one, and thenwe'll lose them again.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
So, yeah.
Well, I did have a.
I just had one thing I wantedto talk about tonight.
Again, it's a huge subject.
I don't know how much we'll getinto it because I don't want it
to be a very long show and butit is.
I have a personal story with itand then I think it might be an
(03:30):
issue that a lot of folks canrelate to or that have
experienced it in their life.
One of the things I've realizedis, the longer you live, the
more perspective that you getand the more obviously I mean
it's kind of a stupid thing tosay the more experiences you
have, but the wider, the wideryour experiences are in life and
(03:53):
you start to relate to otherthings.
And specifically what I'mtalking about is dealing with
either church hurt or goingthrough an abusive leadership,
an event where there's a termcalled spiritual abuse and a lot
(04:13):
of people aren't familiar withthat, but it's a very real thing
.
I know.
Before we went through our,andrea and I were a part of a
fellowship run by my family.
I was a part of leadership andwe were.
We were what you would callworkers.
I mean, we were there all thetime.
(04:34):
We were.
I was on the worship team, wewere, I was an elder, we were I
preached.
From time to time, we mentoredpeople in our homes.
I mean we did a lot.
We did a lot of spiritualevents, conferences, things.
I mean we just did a lot ofstuff and then in retrospect you
(04:55):
start looking back and anyway,it ended, it went south, it
didn't end well and there was alot of abuse from my parents my
mom in particular and spiritualabuse, a lot of manipulation, a
lot of attempting.
She was threatened by healthypeople around her.
(05:15):
She wasn't a healthy,spiritually healthy person
herself, so she was threatenedby anyone who was healthy or
strong themselves, even her ownkids, which is just crazy.
And so there was a lot of anattempt to keep us down.
So I was accused constantlyduring the 15, 20 years that I
(05:36):
was there, of being rebelliousand full of pride, and it was a
continual thing.
Where I would, I would, I wouldbe repenting for it.
I'm so sorry, god, you know,take this out.
And then I couldn't quite ever,you know, put my finger on
exactly when I was actuallybeing rebellious, because I
(05:57):
never felt rebellious and pridewas anytime I had an opinion or
I said anything.
That was immediately pride,which was manipulation, it was
an attempt to kind of squashyour voice.
So it went south.
About eight years ago came to ahead.
I was, I was actually startingto really see things as being
(06:18):
extremely unhealthy.
And we we, even though we werevery spiritually active, we did
all the things as unto the Lord,so we had a walk with the Lord.
We weren't doing it to pleasemy mom, I wasn't doing it to
please the church, we weregenuinely fervent people and
(06:38):
from what I've understood abouta lot of folks who who
experience spiritual abuse, it'salmost always those people and
that's what makes it so, so sad,because they're they're
genuinely want whatever God hasfor them and they're they're
genuinely trying hard.
So anyway, it went south, wentterrible.
(07:00):
We got basically disowned byour family, shunned from all the
, all the people we'd mentoredor were friends with, and in to
this day they want nothing to dowith me.
I had another brother, joseph,who was in with me at the same
time and they did the same thingto him.
He was actually a half owner ofa business with my dad and he
(07:21):
basically had to walk away fromit.
And they they moved to Texas,are very successful raising
their family and a business downthere and and then we moved to
tear hope.
This is about eight years ago.
Anyway, god's, god's done anamazing thing in our lives and
he's, he's restored, he's healedus.
(07:43):
It probably it probably took.
It probably took a good fiveyears of God walking us through
a process of deprogramming, andand so one of the things I
wanted to talk about and thereason this has come up Is
because there's been some andthere almost always is Jimmy
(08:05):
there's almost always the lateststory of some spiritual leader,
who, who either wasn't who theysaid they were, or or they're
one way in front of the camerasand there another way behind the
scenes, and so it's just kindof come to the forefront a
little bit.
And so one of the things Iwanted to talk about was was
(08:27):
just kind of the importance ofgetting whole once you've come
through a situation like that,and and I've seen a lot of folks
who've posted on social mediaor whatever different steps that
and all of them are good, butit's kind of like when you lose
someone or you experience agrief, everybody's gonna grieve
differently and everybody'sgonna get whole differently, but
(08:50):
the important thing is that youdo get whole.
Yeah is that you come to a pointwhere your Christianity isn't
Bankrupted because you've had ahorrible or horrific experience
at the hand of someone that youshould have been able to trust
so so.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
So back to Spiritual.
You call the spiritual abuseright.
Yeah.
So what if and I'm not sayingthat this is my situation at all
, but I mean from a lot ofpeople's perspective what if?
You said I Don't think I'veever experienced that before.
Sure, what I mean, and it isAre they, is there some, is
(09:32):
there is some aspect ofChristianity that they're not
diving into?
Or are they?
Are they on the surface?
Are they just in a really goodplace for a church?
Speaker 1 (09:44):
I mean hopefully they're in a great place.
I mean my hope and prayer isthat not everyone would have to
go through spiritual abuseobviously yeah.
It's, it's, it's very similarin ways.
If you think about, you knoweither, a spouse that has been
abused by another spouse?
Well, it happens, it's very,it's prevalent.
(10:05):
But but I mean, surely you knowthere are healthy marriages out
there.
There are a lot of a lot ofpeople who have not experienced
that, thank God.
Yeah, and on prior to being onthe other side of this, I
remember there was a book thatcame out about spiritual abuse
and I scoffed at it, even thoughI was in the middle of being
(10:28):
manipulated and being.
I was actually being slowlymanipulated, controlled and
abused.
But I, I thought in my mindsetand this is the way you're kind
of programmed those people are,those people are just rebellious
.
They're rebellious to authorityand they want to say that it's
abuse when somebody tries totell them what to do.
(10:49):
That that is literally themindset that I had and, honestly
, back in the old you know place, they still believe that.
I mean they.
They probably think you knowthat I have a problem with being
told what to do, or theyprobably think I'm just so proud
that I, you couldn't work withanybody, which is They've been
(11:10):
programmed a lot of thingsthey've had.
They were actually told I foundthis out that I wanted to take
over the church, that I wantedthe church which is Really I
opening to realize that your ownmother would lie so badly about
you because the confrontationwas about them trying to force
(11:33):
us to go to every little meetingwhen the when I I mean I felt
from the Holy Spirit I wasn'tsupposed to go and they kicked
us out of leadership over it.
And then she keeps hearingthese voices telling her that I
am trying to take over thechurch and I'm like, and that I
was Whatever it was and I wasjust glad not to be going to
(11:54):
church, let alone try to takeanything.
I've never, never, had a designon the church.
So that was a completefalsehood and she knew it.
But you have to cover yourself,because if you tell the truth
of what the confrontation wasover, it's gonna make you look
terrible.
How in the world are you losingyour sons, your own kids, who
support you and love you, ifthere isn't something wrong with
(12:15):
I mean, there's something wrongthere.
So we left, and this is the onething you realize is, if you,
you're coming out of an abusivesituation, it's very real, it's
very poor, it's very big to you.
But to the folks who are friendswith the abuser, even if,
though, they're not a part ofthe network of the abuse, they
don't see it and they're,they're gonna be kind of
(12:37):
standoffish.
They're not, they don't want toget involved, it's not their
fight.
And I understand.
I understand that at the timeit's a little bit hurtful.
You're hoping somebody comes toyour defense, yeah and?
And nobody did.
They.
They're just kind of, we loveyou both.
You know, whatever thissquabble is, you know you get it
, get it worked out of.
And that's sometimes a part ofthe hurt too.
A lot of folks that aredevastated by a church split or
(13:00):
Something that's that's happenedlike this, feel all alone and
they feel Like they might becrazy.
You know they might be goingcrazy, because that's a part of
spiritual abuse is that constantmental Gaslighting.
Where you're, you're constantly, you know you're living.
We, we walked out of thatsituation and we didn't breathe
(13:21):
a word to anyone and we thoughtwe were being spiritual because
of it, because, see, we weren'tgossiping, we were gonna be
silent.
We were, we were showing theway and that's all the
gaslighting, preparation ofmanipulation so that nothing
that was nothing that was wickedwas ever exposed.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, and I've only recently been speaking more and
more about this, maybe in thelast couple of years, and I
realize everything that's hiddenneeds to be exposed, it needs
to come to light and especiallyif there's no repentance on the
other side, yeah, and I just I'mreally interested where that
changed, because I think that,being inside of an, of a church,
(14:00):
it's really easy to take thosepeople who it's really easy to
get stuck in the way that you dothings and the way that you
Believe things should be done,and then, when people deviate
from that a little bit, you callthem outliers yes, whatever
they are, or the rogue orwhatever they are, and then you
separate them, yeah, so being onthe inside, separating, is so
(14:22):
much easier than being thatperson that steps to the outside
, that knows that they'regetting out of this Real, this
really toxic situation.
Yeah, so where did that flip foryou?
Like, was it a?
Was it one day, was it multipledays?
When did when did you andAndrea come to the realization?
Because it has to be a majormind change, yeah, like the, I
(14:43):
mean it has to be a major Godintervention, absolutely,
because you're essentiallytaking what you called your
family, yeah, and was yourfamily?
Yeah, and Do you attach,detaching yourself from it?
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Yeah, so Well, jimmy, one of the things that was the
biggest Shift and I open, Iopener for me was and and I
think Folks could relate to this, if they've experienced
gaslighting, if they'veexperienced mind games or
whatever is when I knew that.
(15:20):
I knew that I knew what I wasbeing accused of was 100% wrong.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
I knew it.
So when you say wrong, you meanin your mind, wrong against the
Bible, wrong against?
Speaker 1 (15:35):
No, I knew that.
So the accusation was that Iwas trying to take over the
church.
Oh, and I knew I was at thatpoint it was.
It felt like I didn't even wantto almost want to go to church,
let alone, let alone take itover.
So I knew it was 180 degreeswrong.
(15:55):
Yes, it was completely theopposite.
And the accusation was comingfrom my own parent.
Yeah, so that thatconfrontation happened, the
rejection, that that happened.
My dad called all the folks inthe church and he told them that
we were under the severejudgment of God and that anyone
(16:17):
that got close to us was goingto be like the sons of Korah in
the Bible that got swallowed up.
When you know the rebellionthat was exposed with.
Moses, so none of them wouldtalk to us.
But the crazy thing is, ashurtful as that was and as scary
as it was, it was alsoliberating because you realized,
(16:40):
holy cow, this is an incrediblytoxic situation.
There isn't anything Christianabout this, there isn't anything
godly there's.
There's no such thing asfollowing the Bible when it
talks about how to, how to dealwith the sin in your brother.
You know, blah, blah, blah, allthis kind of stuff.
So it was, that was the the Iand I've told people this for
years afterwards.
(17:01):
The rejection was was difficultand painful, but it was a huge
mercy from the Lord because itreally did open my eyes.
And I had, because I'd been apart of this system, because
it's a system, it's not just youknow, it's a whole system of
stuff.
Here I had participated, I hadtreated others the way that my
(17:25):
mom had treated me, and youdon't realize it till you get
out of this situation and yourealize, oh my gosh.
So I had to spent a couple ofyears trying to make amends,
trying to restore relationshipsthat I had damaged through hyper
spirituality, through to, youknow, condemning, condemning
(17:46):
people, and one of the thingsthat cults or toxic churches
will do is they all list.
This is that they try toseparate the congregants from
their family.
Yeah, they just, it's just,it's a natural thing.
They just try to.
They're an exclusive group.
They have special revelationthere there is.
(18:06):
They're just a little bit morespiritual, a little bit more
holy than anybody else, and sothat that mentality was was I
had it and that mentality was inthat group, and so with anybody
would say, man, your, yourgroup kind of seems a little bit
cultish.
Oh my gosh, it played rightinto it because suddenly we were
(18:27):
persecuted for being sospiritual and it was just
spiritual, quote, spiritualwarfare.
So that was the turning point.
I knew then I had been insomething very, very bad and I
had hoped that maybe it wouldturn around.
And then God just clearly spoketo me.
And what's crazy is is he wasgracious and merciful to speak
(18:47):
to my wife on the same day, thesame word, and it was basically
you're done.
You're done here.
I don't want you in this, Idon't want you hurt anymore.
It's time for you to move on.
And From that date, that dayforward, we just began the
process of.
It felt like we were running forour lives.
We sold our house just to getout of there.
We relocated, had to get a newjob, had to get everything was
(19:12):
totally new and it was.
It was a quite a process ofgetting whole and and Both of us
were a little delayed.
I was relieved to be out ofthere.
My wife was in this fight orflight mode for a while and then
when we we finally got to asafe place is when all the
Honestly is like a form of PTSDbegin to set in for her, and I
(19:35):
mean she.
She was having close to panicattacks and just a lot of Trying
to process the devastation ofwe raised our kids there.
With seven kids, we raisedDefinitely the older ones.
This was their cousins, this isthe only life they ever knew
and they lost all of that and itwas I think it was hardest on
(19:59):
the older kids than it wasYounger and we were concerned
about the young kids.
You know cuz you know they'relosing grandma and grandpa's
there.
They're losing cousins, but itwas actually the older ones that
it was the most devastating for.
Yeah, I couldn't imagine thatwas eight years ago yeah, so
that was a little over it alittle over eight years ago and
(20:21):
we went to a local church here.
It was very big church I andvery big church and it's a
church you can go to and nobodyknows your name, which I was so
happy for.
I can't tell you the relief tosit in a church, hear a good
sermon, hear a short worshipservice and feel like you were
(20:45):
fed, feel like you went to achurch that you didn't get over
spiritual, you didn't getoverworked and there was nothing
, there was no requirements onyou.
You could just kind of rest.
And after a period of time Ithink it was about a year I
started reaching out because Iwas feeling the weight of what
we had gone through.
(21:05):
And I began to reach out to thepastors there and one of them,
the senior pastor, agreed tomeet with us and it was just
honestly, the love and thepatience and the help that they
gave us was just, it wasprecious.
It was just such a relief tohear that we weren't crazy, that
(21:28):
this was a common theme they'dheard this a lot, which was
really blew our minds and thatwe were just normal and it was
okay.
And I come from a super mybackground and, jimmy, you can
relate to this super spiritual.
When I mean super spiritual, Imean man.
(21:50):
We're laying hands on people,we're giving words of knowledge
and we're fasting and we'repraying and we're doing things
right.
So I'm expecting you I'm gonnaget whole.
Somebody's gonna have to takeme through some serious prayer,
lay hands on me and take methrough inner healing or
whatever.
And yet the greatest healing Iever had was just simply obeying
(22:10):
the Lord and walking with himevery day.
And he, the Lord, found ways toheal me and bring me into
wholeness over time.
And I remember I was walking inour by a rental house and just
kinda walking and I heard theLord repeat the line this is no,
(22:31):
but people are gonna listen tothis and they go yeah, yeah,
whatever, and God would never dothat.
Well, he did for me.
Repeated the line out of themovie when we are Marshall, when
you know the story of we areMarshall, I hate to say I do not
Okay so it's a true story.
But we are Marshall's great.
Matthew McConaughey plays thesecond coach that comes in, but
(22:54):
Marshall's football team crashesan airplane.
They all die, except for twoplayers, anyway.
So they're bringing in MatthewMcConaughey as this new coach to
try to rebuild the program.
Well, the whole community isgrieving, the whole school is
grieving.
The two players didn't make iton that flight are grieving and
they're a mess and they'regetting ready to start the
(23:17):
season that they're going tohave.
And he took them out to thememorial before they started and
he said let's grieve.
And then, when they were done,he said the funerals stop today.
And the Lord spoke that to me.
He said the funeral stops today.
So the grieving, all the loss,all of the woe is me.
(23:39):
It's good for a time, it'sright.
You should remember that, butthen it's time to live again and
God was so gracious to us.
So I guess what I'd like to dois just a couple of things, a
couple of things I'd like topoint out to people that have
gone through similar situations,and there, unfortunately, were
(24:00):
a wide swath of people that wehad hurt in the community.
Our old church had Jimmy, a lotof people that were left as
like debris, human debris, onthe side from our spiritualness,
from our Christ likeness.
So I wanna say first of all, ifyou're listening to this and I
(24:23):
haven't reached out to you, andapologize.
I am sorry from the bottom ofmy heart, no excuses.
Jesus would never act the waythat I acted, would never
operate out of that kind of aspirit, and I'm sorry.
So the thing that I would liketo say is, for anyone who's been
(24:46):
through something like that,whether you have been in
leadership at a church and thenyou poured your heart and soul
out to it and then they tossedyou aside when it was time for
either a new leadership orsomething else of the church
split, or whether you wereabused in some kind of a hyper
spiritual sense, where you gaveand you gave and you gave and
(25:09):
then manipulation would come andyou'd either lose your marriage
or you'd lose your parents, orwhatever it is is.
First of all, you're not crazyand the Lord loves you, and with
the Lord there is not aperformance.
That's right.
(25:31):
It's normal to be angry and toeven hate.
I hated anything that we haddone before good or bad
Practices that other churcheswould do that.
Even what was a hint, jimmy, ofwhat we had practiced.
I hated.
(25:52):
That's normal and that's okaynot to have to participate Like
it's okay not to fast.
It was okay not to do the crazyprayer stuff in the conferences
, it was okay, but and it's evenokay for a while I believe this
especially for, first of all,if you don't want to go to
church, it's okay.
But what is essential in mymind is not that you do the work
(26:17):
, that you continue to be aworker, but that you not say no
to the Lord.
I remember I went to this newchurch.
We went to what was called asoaking service.
Now, that's pretty funny,because in this church and I'm
not trying to knock it at all,but when you said in my old life
(26:38):
, a soaking service, I'm talkingsix hours of worship, that's a
soaking service.
This was an hour and we're outthe door, which is great,
there's nothing wrong with that.
So we go to this and abouthalfway through I mean I can
sense the Lord's presence.
I hadn't sensed him in a while.
I'd been in a dark place and Iwas.
(27:00):
I have to say I was veryresistant and I remember just
closing my eyes and saying, okay, lord, I don't.
I'm really hurt.
Hurt because this feels likethe old place.
It was so bad, but I don't everwant to say no to you, and so
(27:25):
I'm saying yes to you, notsaying yes to you know,
performance or raising my handsor doing anything that was like
the old place.
I'm saying yes to you and, lord, you can do whatever you want
with me, and that was a that wasa breakthrough and a healing in
my life and, honestly, theLord's kind of taken us through
(27:48):
certain things.
And so the other thing that I'dlike to say is it is certainly
okay and really good if you willtake the time and start to
reevaluate all of the thingsthat you have believed.
There is nothing wrong withthat.
Use the word of God and startto go.
Is this biblical?
(28:08):
Is this something Jesus did orwould do?
Is it so extra big biblical?
And yet we built an entiretheology on it and it's not even
in the word of God.
And there was a lot of that,jimmy, that we had,
unfortunately, there was a lotof it.
Now, I'm not saying thosethings are necessarily evil, but
(28:30):
they sure are not worth evenmentioning or bringing up, if as
far as a Christian walk, ifit's not even in the Bible.
So we questioned everything.
I didn't question that Jesuswas Lord.
I didn't question my salvation,I didn't question the basics of
salvation or my walk with theLord, but everything else and I
(28:50):
mean everything Just is thisreally biblical?
Is this in the word?
Is this something that and Ithink everybody has to go
through this process.
From what I've heard, this isthe typical cycle that happens
and the hope is, and the beliefis, that if you'll follow that
faithfully with the Lord, hewill get you back to a place of
(29:13):
wholeness and health.
And, honestly, we're in a very,very healthy church now.
I love the church we're in.
They are healthy.
I mean, it's the healthiestchurch I've ever been a part of
which is probably not sayingmuch, since my experience isn't
the greatest, but we love beingthere and the Lord has.
Just prior to coming, though, wedidn't walk in wounded, and I
(29:37):
think that's.
I think that's a testament tothe Lord.
And here's the cool thing it'sa testament to the body of
Christ, because we were hurt bythe body of Christ, but we were
Jimmy.
We were also restored by thebody of Christ.
We had people just pour outlove on us that we're Christians
, and so it's not fair.
If you've been hurt by a churchor hypocrite who's a Christian
(30:01):
leader or whatever it is, giveGod and His body another chance.
It's worth it.
I'm so glad we didn't throw thebaby out with the bathwater.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Yeah, and I I can't.
I can't imagine what, how yourlife would be different, andrew,
if you didn't have that timewhere you made, had that time
where you made that decision foryourself, because I think
(30:37):
that's what the Lord wants,Right?
He doesn't he.
This is not a relationshipbased on any other from the past
or the future.
This is us and him, yeah, and Ijust think that you have to
take it that serious.
And after that point in yourlife, when his eyes, when you've
(31:06):
locked with his eyes, there'sno other eyes that matter, right
, and I don't think that you canbe shaken after that.
And the body can build you atthat point, right, but the body
can't break you at that point.
I think that's where a lot ofpeople get, where they come in
and they expect the body tobuild them, but they have not
(31:29):
made him Lord of their life, notjust by words, but truly.
You are Lord of my life.
My relationship with you is A1tops.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
So that is a key point, because I've had a walk
with the Lord.
I knew the Lord, but whatyou'll find in a lot of these
toxic situations is that theleader will kind of be that walk
of the Lord for these peopleand some of the ones that
(32:02):
suffered shipwreck, faith-wise,couldn't feel like they ever
could hear the Lord anymore,because everything was coming
from this leader and they had torun everything by her.
Whether they bought or sold ahouse, whether it came down to
what movies they could watch orhow they should treat their
(32:25):
children, whatever it is,everything had to be approved.
And when you're doing that, youmay not realize it in that
situation, but you are turningfrom following the Lord and you
are following a person.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
And once you start exalting that person up closer,
then it feels good to ask them,because sometimes maybe you feel
like you're not getting ananswer from the Lord, but
there's a person right here thatwill probably give you an
answer real quick.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
I see, I absolutely know.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
You know what I mean yes, and I just think that
that's touching on some really,really scary ground once you
start to do that, and I thinkanybody who's been through a
church split can realize that.
Yeah, yep, yep.
So thanks, andrew.
Hey, andrew, did you hear aboutISU's new team they have?
So they're branching out in theMVC.
(33:15):
Did you know that?
Branching out in the what, theMVC, the Missouri Valley
Conference, oh, okay.
So they're playing really goodat basketball now right?
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Yes, yes, I know that I've heard that, so that's
awesome.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I really need to go to the game.
Gosh, I've been forever.
Could you get me some?
Speaker 1 (33:28):
tickets Kids would like to go.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
No, now I can't get tickets.
I could have got them last yearfor nothing, but no, I don't
know.
It's probably hard to get in.
I am an alumnus, that's great.
I went there on the five yearprogram with a four year degree,
if that means you know whatthat means.
Thank you, parents.
No, but they do have a new.
They have a new team.
It is esports.
(33:50):
They have delved in esports.
They've got a team.
That's actually.
You know what esports is?
I'm assuming it's a video game.
Yeah, they're video gamers, soit's truly something.
They're competing at theMissouri Valley Conference for
video games with a team Okay,and these guys put their name
out like they're proud of it.
I haven't seen a picture yet.
(34:12):
Let me ask you.
I have an idea of what.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Is this common?
Is this common?
Speaker 2 (34:17):
that colleges would do this.
Well, it looks like now,because it's the conference, so
it's a conference, so there'sother colleges doing this.
I mean, what's Missouri Valley?
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Are you getting credit?
Speaker 2 (34:26):
for this.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
I mean, do you have to have a good like a good?
Speaker 2 (34:30):
grade average.
In order to make the team, theygive scholarships at ISU.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
You can do pretty much nothing.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
You can do a scholarship for an esports.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
I don't know if ISU is a financial standing to be
giving scholarships for esports.
They're recruiting couchpotatoes to come on in here.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
I think they're taking yeah probably.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Yeah, that's probably it.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
No, they're play.
If you're interested, though,they're playing Nintendo
switches and they're playingSuper Smash Brothers.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
And I gave up my video game playing way too early
then, I could have, I couldhave done well.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
You could have went on scholarship for that yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
I bet there's done something.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
I bet there's actually more aspiring members
to that team than there areaspiring students in college.
I mean, once you're gone fromyour parents, you're in a dorm.
Yeah, and what else do you haveto do besides play video games?
Pretty much constantly.
The internet's good over there.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
You know, what I'm wondering is once there's a
schedule and you have to play agame, I wonder if the fun starts
to come out of it.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Well, it's probably like my brother does fishing
tournaments.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
He's like he's a professional, like a real
fishing tournament yeah, he doeslike real ones.
Like you pay to go in.
I knew a guy and I know I didthis yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
I know that it's not fun.
Yeah, it's work, it's serious.
I mean, because you have aclock and you have this, you've
got to go after it.
It's not like going out in thesummer and catching some fish.
Maybe not catching fish,whatever it's like, it adds a
level of stress to somethingthat's fun, so maybe that's what
this is for them.
It's adding a level of stress Imean their fingers must be
(36:05):
amazing.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
How fast they can do these moves right.
What do you win?
I mean, you're going to win atitle because you're not going
to get money for it, right, andyou're not going to get
girlfriends for it either.
You're my other boyfriends,other gamers, I don't know.
You don't want to bediscriminative.
Yeah, I mean, I don't thinkthere's going to be a groupie.
A bunch of groupies follow andthey'll like the basketball team
.
Maybe there is, who knows?
Speaker 2 (36:25):
I don't know what you win for this, and I hate to say
pride, because you've probablylost it all by that point.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Well, here's the deal , Jimmy.
I think we're showing that weare completely out of touch with
this generation.
I think that's what we'reshowing.
So one of the guests we'regoing to bring on and I'm not
going to say that this person'sname, but I did get confirmation
that they would possibly bewilling is a high school senior
at Terre Haute South and thisperson is going to kind of
(36:51):
explain the lingo.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Now this person has to come on, yeah they're going
to explain the lingo?
Speaker 1 (36:57):
I have no clue.
We tried to do that severalepisodes ago and it was fine,
but it was kind of like almostlike bad dad jokes.
Nobody thought it was great.
So this will be a legitimategenerational exhibition.
So we'll get an specimen, anopportunity to study this person
(37:17):
and to see what comes out ofthis person's mouth and what
this means we can ask normalreal world questions about it.
Yes, yes, so that maybe we'llget an education, or educate the
listeners.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yeah, at the same time, yeah exactly, we'll bridge
the gap.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Generational bridging of the gap, that'll be great.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
That's what we're here doing.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
That's right Bridging gaps generations.
Well, folks, once again, we wantto thank you so much for
listening.
Really sorry, I know the I meantwo thirds of this podcast is a
little heavy.
Tried to keep it as light aspossible it is.
I think it's an importantsubject that a lot of people
deal with.
It's something that's a lifeexperience and I felt like I
(38:01):
wanted to share that.
I hope it was helpful.
I hope it was overly depressingand, like we were talking
during the break, we were reallynot wanting to point anyone
away from church.
There are a ton, like I said, aton of good churches out there,
great godly people who love you, will love you and care for you
.
Absolutely, you need to findthem.
We just happened to have anexperience that wasn't good, and
(38:26):
that's not just church life,it's in.
You know.
You can have it in any kind ofrelationship or group.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
So Anytime you get deep and you make yourself
vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
Yeah, I think that's it.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
But we're not saying that, not to do that, yeah, but
I mean it's.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
So, yeah, we want to thank you for listening.
If you've stayed this far,that's amazing.
Please like and subscribe belowand please share with your
friends.
We are on rumble, we're onYouTube.
I we post this video on X.
I'm going to have to quitmoving in my chair.
It's going to look silly.
We were on X, let's seeAnything else.
(39:07):
I think that's.
I think that's probably got.
Yeah, we put it out on Facebooktoo, but just the YouTube links,
so, but anyway, we reallyappreciate all of our listeners,
the comments, the critiques.
We appreciate the criticisms.
Believe me, we get them.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
They're helpful.
I'm not wearing a hat anymore.
My dad told me that that'sright.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Helpful, and that's why we're wearing our headphones
, surely so that you can hearJimmy, because I know that that
was important to you.
So, but anyway, folks, you havea wonderful evening, which of
course makes no sense becauseyou might be watching this
during the day.
So until next time we'll seeyou.
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