January 1, 2024 • 57 mins
Episode 49: 1989 (Taylor's version) (Taylor Swift). McCartney In Goal is the podcast that debates the great albums of pop music, using a competitive knock-out format. Today we’re discussing, 1989 (Taylor's version) which was a re-recording of the fifth studio album by Taylor Swift. It was released on 27 October 2023.
Unlock the story behind Taylor Swift's pop transformation from country darling to pop royalty with the latest spirited debate "track by track" by the McCartney In Goal team. The album includes loads of hits including "Welcome to New York", Blank Space, Wildest Dreams, Shake It Off, Bad Blood and Style.
At the end of the showdown, the team will crown the ultimate 'best song' of "1989." Will the infectious beat of "Shake It Off" claim the top spot, or does the timeless elegance of "Style" reign supreme? Tune in and listen as we declare the definitive anthem of Taylor Swift's pop conquest, all the while weaving in playful trivia and humorous asides that guarantee to entertain Swifties and music buffs alike.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to McCartney and Gold podcast, where we
discuss an awesome album, takeits songs and pick them against
one another in a knockout styleformat.
What album are we doing thismonth?
Well, I'm kind of imagining alot of people will be coming to
this podcast for the first time,drawn by the bright lights of
Taylor Swift.
So welcome to new podcast.
It's been waiting for you.
If there's been a blank spacein your life, hopefully we've
(00:20):
got the style to help you shakeit off.
I mean, all you had to do wasstay and after that terrible set
of puns, I wish you wouldTonight we're going to party
like it's 1989.
I'm your host, brett, and I'mjoined by my three guests
sitting in Contrary Corner.
The man who puts the cons intoContrary it's David Hughes.
Hey, hey, hey.
Next to him is the fellow whoputs the rant into intolerant
(00:42):
it's Stephen Sumner.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Good evening to you all on the same note Lovely.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
And lastly, our special guest, one half of GXL
Music, genius producer and alsothe youngest person on the pod
tonight, the man who puts thepert into expert.
It's Guy Langley.
Thank you very much.
So tonight we're going to bedoing Taylor's version of 1989.
We're going to be doing thesongs up until Clean.
So it goes from New York toClean those 13 songs.
(01:11):
So, chaps, are we excited to bedoing an album from the 21st
century?
Speaker 4 (01:15):
It's very rare for us .
Speaker 1 (01:17):
So I won't get a vote tonight.
Dave, guy and Steve, you'regoing to have the vote, so I'm
just going to be hosting.
Okay, so we're getting into ourfirst round.
You ready, yep.
Yes, welcome welcome to NewYork versus I Know Places.
I Know Places.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
For me it's a very easy decision.
They're both Ryan Teder tunes.
When I say tunes I meanproduced by Ryan Teder.
I think this album is quite asI'm sure we'll get into is quite
infamous for taking a countryartist and going the full on pop
route and it was reallyinteresting to see who she kind
of employed the services ofreally to kind of enhance her
songwriting.
(02:57):
And when I say they're RyanTeder songs I purely mean, you
know he co-collaborated with her.
She's very much a driving forceand actually always has been.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
But there were a lot of producers on this work.
There she works with a lot ofdifferent producers.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, there were kind of four main different groups
really.
Ryan Teder is his own kind ofentity, there's Max Martin and
Shellback, and then there's JackAntonoff and there's also, I
think, nathan Chapman, herlong-running sort of country
buddy.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I think Imogen Heep as well.
Oh yes, Imogen Heep.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I forgot yeah, which is kind of a bit of an outlier,
that track.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
But so of all of them , which were the Swedish heavy
metal influences that are allover this album?
Well, yeah, funnily enough.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Max Martin and Shellback are both.
You know.
They come from a world of power, ballads and rock.
That's their kind of upbringing, and what they've managed to
achieve is nothing other thansort of incredible.
Really, since they came intomusic in the late 90s through to
now, they're involved in everybig pop artist.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
In the producer WhatsApp groups that you must be
long to guy, I'm presumingthere's just like a big WhatsApp
group for all the producers inthe world.
I mean, we're not thatorganised to me yeah what's the
kind of opinion amongst allthose producers that?
How successful is Max Martin?
Are they like?
Is he one of the?
Yeah, he's the best.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah, he is the pinnacle really.
He's probably the mostsuccessful songwriter of our
generation.
For sure there might be one ortwo that have had a similar kind
of hot sort of minute reallyfor a couple of decades, in
places like there's Dr Luke andthere's Timbaland.
There's a couple of otherpeople like Pharrell as well, I
think have had long careers indifferent ways, but Max Martin
(04:43):
is just a different animal in myview.
He continues that legacy ofSwedish melodic pop.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
A fine legacy from ABBA to the Hives, to Max Martin
Exactly.
Dave, what are you thinkingabout these two songs?
Speaker 4 (04:59):
I mean welcome to New York is intended consciously to
be like a statement of whereshe wants to go.
I know places.
It's not one of the strongerones for me on this album.
It's about, lyrically, it'sabout running from unnamed
predators trying to pursue acouple in a relationship, so it
(05:20):
sounds like a paparazzi song tome.
It's good.
It's good, but not the mostinteresting thing on the album.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Oh, I mean, I hate to say this, but I agree with
everything Dave said.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Oh, you didn't agree with Dave.
I did agree with Dave.
Come on, that's a USP.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
It's very upsetting because not only do I have the
same opinion of the songs, but Iagree that it does.
I know places comes across as abit of a sort of paparazzi
whinge.
It's perfectly acceptable, butI'm a big, big sucker for
welcome to New York on a coupleof levels, again irritatingly
agreeing with Dave about thewhole statement thing, and I
mean that's well known to befair.
But yeah, I know places has togo here, surely?
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Guy hasn't been waiting for you.
Yeah, welcome to New York forme and Steve, is that a three?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
It is a three-nil.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
That's uh, welcome to New York.
Goes through to the quarterfinals.
So the next round is WildestVideo Game Dreams versus how you
Get the Girl.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Wildest Video Game Dreams.
So that must be a reference to.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Lana Del Rey.
There we go.
It sounds a bit similar to me,is it not?
To anyone else?
Speaker 2 (07:27):
It's very yeah, it's very much of that world
Cinematic swoon to it.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
It's got that whole thing he even talks about
dresses.
Both of them got reference tosummer dresses and summer they
kind of.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Oh, taylor Swift does love a summer dress reference,
though, doesn't she?
She really does that's, so thatcomes up a lot.
It's, it's.
I'm fascinated endlessly by howmuch sex there is in Taylor
Swift songs, and yet it's alwayskind of all-american sex.
It's very nice, wholesome.
I've got red lipstick on andthat nice dress.
(08:01):
You like sex rather than likefilth, but there's loads of it.
It's like a really interestingjuxtaposition.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
It's like rather than AC DC sex, you mean.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Yeah, or like really, really wholesome, without you
ever sort of coming out the endof an album thinking, oh, I feel
a bit dirty now.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Is this a love album?
I mean, a lot of the songs areabout love, aren't they?
Speaker 2 (08:22):
I think it's a bit of that.
I think it's also her playingwith the perception of her quite
a lot lyrically.
There's a lot of talking aboutpress and where she is, what
people write about her, andthat's why I think it resonates
and why she's always resonated.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
She's almost airing her dirty laundry in coded
little ways, there's a lot ofself-consciousness about it,
which is redolent of modern fame, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (08:50):
I would say self, not to correct you, but just I
think it's self-awareness ratherthan self-consciousness,
because self-conscious feelslike she's uptight about it, but
I think she's not.
It's beautiful, she's likeself-aware Good.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Thanks, sir.
By the way, new listeners.
Steve is an English teacher, soI've just been, I've literally
been schooled.
But how you get the girl isprobably the least modern pop of
all the songs in this album.
It just feels more bubblegumpop to me.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Yeah the beat.
It sounds like sort of 80s, 90spop.
But that's fine, I like it,it's nice.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
And wildest dreams.
That, for me, is my yeah, Ilove that song out of those two.
I think that's her tryingsomething different vocally.
I think it's really cinematicand it's really.
It really stands out, it'sreally refreshing.
Whereas how you get the girlsounds, yeah, it sounds like a
Swedish pop song Insert artisthere kind of almost.
It sounds a bit like a OneDirection song to me.
(09:47):
It's kind of got that sort ofenergy and that drive.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
Well, early Brit, which was Max Martin.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, absolutely, and as a result it sounds a tiny
bit dated almost, whereasWildest Dreams kind of, doesn't
it?
It sort of sonically soundsgreat and as a song and hearing
a thing like that, I think itreally stands up, okay, steve.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
I think how you get the girl is probably going out
here.
So I would like to talk for thefirst time about a Taylor Swift
signature thing that happens alot in this song, which is the
which I reference in myintroduction Hello, which is the
same note melodies, which is amassive Taylor Swift thing and
(10:26):
I'm endlessly fascinated by it.
It's like again, it's like ifyou sort of use any technique,
whether it's in literature ormusic or anything else, if you
use repetition because you can'tthink what else to do, your
audience will know.
But if you use repetition as adeliberate tool, that also you
(10:47):
know your audience will feel it.
And she seems to, because I duginto this quite a lot.
She seems to use the singlenote melodies and that's how you
get the girl goes up a littlebit, but I mean, you know it's
the start of that really reallyclose, almost single note melody
and in some other songs, but itreally is all on the same note
(11:09):
and it seems to be a thing thatshe does to try and get the
lyric across so that you focuson the lyric rather than on the
melody.
And also she fixes it a lot ofthe time, fixes inverted commas
by doing harmonies around it sothat you listen to the lyric,
because the lyrics on the samenote but the harmonies give it a
(11:29):
sort of lushness.
I'm endlessly fascinated by it.
I think it's a reallyinteresting technique and again,
the comparison, weirdly, isthat I always come back to a
synaptra because she seems to bedoing this thing of I want the
lyric to be heard and to beforegrounded.
And I want to tell you a story.
I'm not doing a Mick Jaggerexile on Main Street, muddy, you
(11:52):
know, mix it in the backgroundDoesn't really matter what I'm
saying, it's absolutely a FrankSinatra.
Here's a story.
I want you to hear it and Ithink that's what the same note
thing seems to be about.
But I'm really fascinated by it.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Is that that is indicative of modern pop.
The lyric has become reallyfront and center, especially in
American artists, where hip hopis such a huge influence in
contemporary pop, I think it'sit's become even more relevant
and powerful and impactful tohave the lyrics as a as a as a
star of the show, and that inTaylor's been an artist that's
(12:27):
really taking that to the nextlevel.
And you know, like Steve said,it makes you listen and it makes
you explore.
But I'm waiting for Wilder'sDreams.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Dave, yeah, I'm voting for Wilder's Dreams.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Oh, lots of consensus this evening.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
This is this is wildly exciting with three,
three, three nils going through,okay so.
So the next round is this lovea ballad versus all you had to
do was stay a pop banger.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Yeah, it is, isn't.
It is a pop task, it is a lotof pop bangers.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
I mean, this is.
I didn't ask you at the start,so I'm going to ask you kind of
halfway through how does thisalbum sit for you?
I mean, it's a huge pop album,is it not?
It's got such strength in debt.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
It's massively important, this album to me and
my life, because I've gotteenage daughters, which I've
mentioned before on the podcast,and this is something that we
can share together this album.
We played it a lot in the caras they were growing up, and
(14:39):
particularly this album, yeah,particularly this album.
Reds as well, and I think thisis so poppy, this album, that no
matter where you fall on themusic spectrum, whatever your
personal preferences are, almostanyone can get into this album
because it's so catchy andaccessible.
So my girls love it, I love it,their mum loves it, and we all
(15:00):
come from different musicalpreferences, but we can all
converge on this album.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Her record company sort of said oh, please, please,
please, put at least two orthree, maybe just even two
country tracks on this.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Get a bit of fiddle on there.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
You're a country artist, but what are you doing?
You're going to alienate yourwhole audience.
And she said this brilliantphrase.
She said if you chase tworabbits, you lose both of them.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Having said that I think this love is is a country
song that they've tried to justadd a couple of synths to it.
I think it sounds like it.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
I completely agree with that.
I think it sounds like it waswritten as a country song.
I still think it's trying toremove the country from it.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
We've passionately argued for her being an absolute
superstar and saying Fuck it,don't worry, let's do it.
And then you've just said butactually, having said that, this
love is a country song.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Yeah, amazing In structure.
It does feel like one.
Yes, but any countryinstrumentation has been removed
from it.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Apart from the acoustic guitars.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
I love this love.
I think it sounds like anothercinematic one, a bit like Wilder
Streams, and I feel like thislove could have finished the
album.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Yes, agreed.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
This love?
Are you voting for this love,dave?
Is it that love that you'revoting for?
Speaker 4 (16:12):
I am.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
We might have some dissension.
Finally, vague Possibility ofexcitement, guy, what you're
voting for.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
What's our ship against?
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Oh my, goodness, all you had to do was stay, guy.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, all you had to do.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Please, please, stay.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
We need to finish the podcast You're getting this,
this love from this, this lovefor me.
Like I said it, I just it feelsa little bit hedging your bets
as a Production and as a song.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Okay, steve, you've got casting vote.
This is almost exciting.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Okay, all you had to do is stay.
Is is again another classicexample of the one note thing.
Except she fixes the one notething here by going all you had
to do was and then goes up tothe octaves day.
It's like, oh okay, you'redoing the same note but you've
gone up an octave for it, whichis it is an interesting one.
Again she's playing that game.
I'm interested in it, I like it.
(17:04):
But I have to say this lovegets my vote here, much as it
sickens me to agree with Daveover guy.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
I was hoping to go with guy here, but you know you
were trying to be down with thekids in a bit cool, but you've
had to go with Understand.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
About it, but I just love the melody, I love the
lyric, yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I'd voted with guy, obviously.
But yeah, sorry guy, I'veinvited you into my own personal
nightmare, which is having todeal with these two on a on a
monthly basis and theiroutrageous decisions for someone
.
I just needed to set up aself-help group, really, so
you're just been invited on Togo through this process to then
empathize with me.
Okay, next, that goes through.
(17:47):
So this love goes through tothe quarter finals.
So the next round keep it clean.
It's clean versus the massivebanger that is out of the woods.
Oh, oh, oh yeah, I think I'mfinally clean.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Oh Well, clean is what actually finishes the album
.
It is a great way to finish thealbum.
I think it's a great song.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
I thought you would.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
I think it's very confident lyric writing in it as
well.
So in it she's comparinggetting over a relationship to
recovering from an addiction.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah, and the teaming up with image and heap is a is
not only artistically great, butit's also quite shrewd and
clever in terms of positioningher and giving her a bit of
depth and a bit of artistry.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Really, that she's a very who's image in heap Imaging
here.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
I mean I'll be.
I'll be frankly honest, I don'tknow that much about her in
terms of her story.
I know obviously the big songHide and Seek, which has been
sampled many a time, very famousfor using vocoders and
harmonizers and being a kind ofelectronic influence sort of
folk artists, I guess you say ona very yeah but that's, that's
(20:25):
doing it probably a disservice,because I know a lot of people
that you know Obsess over herstuff and she has such a
plethora of work.
It's she's, again, someone youwould not expect a pop artist to
be able to collaborate with Onthe same album at this time.
Anyway, as as max martin, it'sa kind of it's very much two
ends of the spectrum, which isquite interesting, I think, and
(20:46):
I think Cleanser great, thegreat result of that.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Okay, steve, what are you feeling?
Are you out of the wood yet?
Are you loving?
Being again loving some forestbathing.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Again out of the woods.
It's happening again.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yeah, but the backing vocals are immense.
On that it's absolutely.
Again, it's not me.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
It's not me complaining.
I am not.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
I am not making good complaint, I think well.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
I'm just endlessly fascinated by it.
I mean, I'm fascinated by howmuch she's prepared to use it
and how much she does with itit's, it's and how you can still
make something so catchy.
This is really hard for me.
I like both of these a lot.
I'm gonna go out of the woodsbecause I like clean.
(21:37):
I think clean is a good ending,but it occupies a similar space
to this love, which I justvoted for, so I'm gonna take
clean out of there and, yeah, goout the woods.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Nice.
Oh god, dave, what are youvoting for?
I'm voting for clean, of courseyou are.
That's why I waited to getwhat's went to you first, and
now I'm going to the decider.
Guy, that's good hosting.
Give it to me, guy, your vote.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
So, as much as I love clean, I think it's it's got a
real depth to it.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Out of the woods is just If you had never brought
the words, I have come running.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
I know, I think you would have suffered.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
I know, I know of course you're voting for out of
the woods.
It's immense, it's absolutelyhuge.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Yeah, they have the albums of.
You know she wanted to makethis 80s big pop.
You know reference album, whichis, you know, an era where
people ditched traditionalinstruments and picked up you
know, weird ones and newtechnologies and layering of
vocals and I think this song inparticular is this one where
she's really re embracing thatand playing with vocal layering
(22:37):
and yeah, just, it's just yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Adam and would be proud of this, wouldn't he guy?
He'd absolutely love it.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
He would indeed he'd love a bit of vocal layering he
does.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
What do you think of her as a singer people?
I think that's a fascinatingdiscussion as well.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Well, I've got a producer here, I've got a singer
also, that's you, steve, andthen I've got Dave.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
So let's go to Dave first, would you reckon her
voice has changed over the yearsand that's shown up in the
tailors versions where you canliterally compare young Taylor
singing to Modern Taylor singingand it hear the difference in
her voice.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
I prefer the new voice.
By the way, I think she soundslike a woman of the world, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I think Taylor sits in a position where she's not
the biggest powerhouse vocalist,but she doesn't need to be,
because that's not what she'sabout and that's not what she's
singing about, and that's not.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
No, but she probably has the most powerful connection
with her fans, doesn't she?
Which?
Speaker 4 (23:31):
is absolutely how do you describe her voice?
It's a good question really,because I think that is it.
Is it even that distinctive?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
not, not necessarily, but it is only only in the sort
of what she sings about, a whenand how she conducts herself,
not only in the song but in herpersonal life.
It's, yeah, it's not.
It's not a very distinctive,you know on paper, distinctive
vocal.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
By.
Imagine she'd be a joy to workwith as a producer.
She just turned up be super pro, oh yeah almost zero on to rise
, just nail every take.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Yeah, I think she, you know she, she knows what she
wants, I think she'll.
She'll know harmony, she'llknow Arrangements, she would
know like everything in a career.
It's her driving it.
It's not, she's not riding onother people's coattails.
They're there to sort ofimprove what she's already
thought of coming to the studioto work on.
And you know, I think that's agood example is the bonus tracks
on this record actually, whichI think is, without going on too
(24:31):
much of a tangent, is quiteincredible really, because when
the original album came out,there were three bonus tracks
and they were all the voicememos from the writing sessions
and they were her presenting thesongs to like Max Martin and
Shellback and singing them.
You know, singing blank spacepretty much in its entirety.
It's you know all.
And they were adding littlebits of, you know, backing
vocals and little kind ofEmbellishments.
(24:53):
But essentially it was herdebuting this song to them and
it's, it's, it's all her really.
It's her driving it and it'sthem Feeding off that and but
giving us some more ideas andsome more colors to play with.
But it's, it's her outline,it's her drawing that they're
sort of, they're filling inreally.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Wow, do you?
Speaker 3 (25:08):
realize that I have to say that the the bit where,
the bit where we were jokingabout it before, with a bit
where he said that she's not gota very distinctive vocal,
that's the sort of shit youwould have shut down if I'd said
it.
It's like when, I suggest RingoStowe isn't an amazing drummer,
it's like, and everyone goes topieces.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Oh no, I would never say that the world ends.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Yes, and you know it's like.
You know, I would definitelysaid not a distinctive vocal,
perfect for what she's doing andshe's distinctive in like a
hundred other ways.
But but that is not aparticularly distinctive vocal.
So I agree with you guys.
Well done for reading out myscript.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
It's alright, yeah, the last qualifying round.
Bad blood versus.
I wish you would.
Wish you right here, right now,oh, oh.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Oh, that was that was .
It's one of the few songs nowthat's about a different kind of
relationship, isn't it?
Because she had a?
Falling out who's it is.
You have a falling out withanother female singer.
Wasn't I forget the Name?
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Katy Perry?
Was it Nicki Minaj?
Was it a Katy Perry?
Speaker 3 (26:55):
It was Katy.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Perry, I thought you were guessing it.
That was your guessing tone.
Your wife actually just keptsaying Nicki Minaj didn't know
how much longer.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
It was just my assessment of your tone of voice
, but so now look like a knob,so let's move on.
Yeah, I like that blood.
I think that blood's good, so Ithink it's.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
It's got a good beats .
It's one for the dance floor.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Yeah, no, I don't think.
I don't think I wish you wouldis as strong I think I wish you
would.
I think is it in the secondhalf of the album tracks seven
yes, I think the first half ofthis album is pretty much
unassailable.
And then and then second halfis really really strong.
But not quite as strong, and Ithink I wish you would is An
example of that.
(27:45):
You know, is it still reallystrong?
Yes, it's just.
There are things that are instrong.
I like bad blood.
I'm gonna write for bad bloodjust because I think it's
interesting to have you know.
It's still a relationship album, but it's a different type of
relationship.
So, yeah, I like it Okay.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
Dave, well, yeah, obviously, obviously bad blood
If that's one of the big things.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
obviously this album they're so good.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
Yeah, it's a great Pop song, very catchy, very
memorable.
Very good pop song.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Which one is your favorite guy?
We've already got two for badblood, but I need it just for
official.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Oh I do I do really like I wish you would.
I love the fact that it's gotthe sample of Finding cannibals
for the snare.
Drive me crazy.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Nice and what?
What year was that recorded?
1989?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
I'm gonna guess there we go top of the class.
I didn't know that a little bitof meta knowledge there but
that that again it's a kind ofthat's a jack Antonov production
and that's kind of that'sslightly more tonative, where
she kind of goes on to nextreally.
But I do really like it.
I love it for that.
I mean, I love that snare soundand I love that sort of that.
It really goes there to the 80skind of world.
(28:49):
But yeah, bad blood for me.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
Dust it's a 3-0.
Okay, yeah, and here's a.
Here's a quiz question for theswifty's listening at home what
connects this song?
I wish you would, with herother songs, breathe the way I
loved you, mary's song, andenchanted.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Is Jeff Beck playing on all of them?
Oh?
Speaker 1 (29:12):
apart from that, that's what I was gonna say.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
It's not that it's.
It's because she mentions thetime 2am in all of those songs.
2am is a frequently used timein Taylor Swift songs.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Welcome to New York.
Versus worldest dreams, it'sour quarterfinals songs about
New York.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
It seems to me that aren't songs about New York
usually about bragging howawesome you are?
Because the chorus of this songis the lights are so bright,
but they never blind me.
New York by Frank Sinatra.
New York, New.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
York, basically bragging, isn't it?
Oh, he's king of the hill.
I'm not even a humble brag,dave.
Empire State of Mind by Jay-Z.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
That's just bragging about everything, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Massive.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
And Englishmen in New York by Sting that's bragging
about drinking tea.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
That's an Englishman bragging which is so out of
character for the English peopleto brag outrageous.
We're gonna take your passportback, sting.
How dare you brag Braggingabout drinking tea?
So I'm gonna smoothly move.
That's nice.
There's a lot of bragging inNew York songs, dave, but why
was it important for her to moveto New York?
Come back to that originalquote.
We usually, which you told usthe you can't chase two rabbits
(30:27):
or you'll lose them both andthat's what she decides to do
this is why and welcome to NewYork is the way she opens this
album and it's kind of like, yes, I'm here, it's pop
Magnificence, right here butit's synth pop and that's the
thing.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
It's not because so, because she was doing pop before
, but it's like it's.
I'm not going to put anacoustic guitar anywhere near
this.
This is like totallyelectronically fabricated,
genre-specific late 80s pop andthat that's that.
That's the difference betweenthis idea of her going oh, she's
getting more poppy with everyalbum, but then it's like 19 and
29.
She's like screw you, this islike I'm all in and I think
(31:01):
that's.
I think that's the difference.
There's still a, there's stilla watermark between the two.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Okay, well, I'm going to push all for a vote, because
we've been wanging on for ages.
We've we've not really talkedmuch about albums in New York,
but I'm hoping that's becauseit's going to go through.
It's going through surely youcan never be sure, dave's in the
room.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Every movie that you watch on Netflix that has a
scene where it's like wide shotof New York.
It's this song and it's someonecrossing the Brooklyn Bridge,
zoom out of a taxi cab and it'sjust Yellow cab.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
I'm walking here.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
someone says that Exactly, there's something about
Taylor Swift and Rom Combs andthat's sort of like that.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
You see Sting in the corner having a cup of tea.
Yeah, you know New YorkBasically.
Yeah, exactly, it's the office.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
It's an advertiser's wet dream, so you're voting for.
I'm voting for Welcome to NewYork, just because it sounds
like that first day in a newlife, basically.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Yeah, it's a great opening track for any film or
any album.
Dave, what are you voting for?
Speaker 4 (31:56):
I vote for Wilder's Dreams.
Of course you are, Because it'smoody.
It's got great melody.
I really like it.
I think it's a better song.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
And also, everyone would have expected you to vote
for.
Welcome to New York, so it'sperfect, it's perfect.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
Why would you expect me to vote Welcome to New York,
and not me?
Everyone, everyone?
Speaker 1 (32:13):
else listen.
Of course this guy is going tovote for Welcome to New York.
It's one of the best songs inthe album, but I know you better
than that.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
You keep telling us it's one of the best songs on
the album.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
I wouldn't have it in my top five.
No, I know you wouldn't, but itdefinitely is one of the best
songs on the album.
Yeah, it is so, steve, we'recoming to you for the deciding
vote.
Welcome to New York versusWilder's Dreams.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Okay.
So the thing I like aboutWilder's Dreams particularly is
those lovely bits where, again,she uses vocals so interestingly
to make points and to getlyrics across.
And it's when she does the.
She's so tall but handsome ashell.
And then you get that echoedbackground behind it which
(33:00):
sounds swoony.
It's, he's so tall but handsomeas hell.
And then you get to Wilder'sDreams and it's so emotive.
It's so I'm overplaying thisswooning thing, but I'm doing it
consciously.
It's completely brilliant.
There's no way I can vote forit.
(33:21):
Welcome to New York.
In here, though.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Well done, okay.
The second quarter final isthis Love versus Making Its
Debut on the podcast Blank Space.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Oh that's a big song.
Oh, it's big what's?
Speaker 1 (33:35):
the name of the album .
Speaker 2 (33:36):
I mean, if I'm going to keep this up, for me that's a
very easy conversation.
Blank Space is a pinnacle ofher songcraft and I think it's,
I think it's one of her bestever songs.
So I mean, sorry to spoil anytension, but that's, that's a
favorite of mine, so that's aspoiler alert.
(33:57):
It's an easy conversation.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
It's not a spoiler alert guy, unless someone else
of one of these two agrees withyou, and then we kind of have
ruined the podcast.
It's dramatic tension.
Okay, so this Love versus BlankSpace, dave, what are you
saying?
Speaker 4 (34:13):
Well, this love is another cinematic one, and I
think it could have finished thealbum.
I really really like it, butit's up against Blank Space and
I will be voting for Blank Space.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Again, I have to not only vote the same way as Dave,
but I have to literally, justbasically, just agree with
everything he just said.
You know, I think I think this,I think this love is, is
brilliant.
I think it should have endedthe album, could have ended the
album, but it's not Blank Space,is it?
No, it is.
It's had a tough draw there.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Okay, so her fame now has just grown and grown as
it's since this album, which wasalmost what nine years ago?
Yeah even more famous now.
I mean, who is more famous inTaylor Swift?
I mean it's difficult to thinkof.
Is she in the top 10 mostfamous people in the world?
We're talking about that kindof level now of insane fame.
How can you cope with that?
Could you cope with that, dave?
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Dave love it.
David, just cruise through it.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
Smooth, yeah, but you do think, don't you?
If you were suddenlytransported into the body of
Taylor Swift, what would yournext move be?
Oh, I like some kind of weirdepisode of Quantum League.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
So you've.
I haven't thought about itactually, Dave.
Speaker 4 (35:22):
I haven't thought about it much, but you seem to
have given it a lot of thought.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot of thinking.
If I was, if I was moved intothe body of Taylor Swift, what
would my next?
Speaker 1 (35:32):
move be no, no, what would my next move be?
I've given it a lot of thought.
Yeah, Haven't you Question mark.
Surprise face, no, what wouldyou do?
I love it.
It's a great.
It's a great question.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
It's a great question , Dave.
I'd stop recording and I'dbecome a recluse.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Fucking hell.
I mean, that's the worstepisode of Quantum League ever,
isn't it?
I mean you just destroyed yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
What?
Just how long would you be arecluse for?
I couldn't deal with any ofthat.
I would.
I would literally stopeverything and hide away, but
your short game would be amazing, wouldn't?
Speaker 1 (36:02):
it.
I would use that to play somegreat courses.
You couldn't, dave, youcouldn't play golf, because you
turn up and they go fucking hell.
Taylor Swift's about to tealoff on the fourth.
That's amazing Good drive.
Speaker 4 (36:13):
Taylor.
Well, it's not unprecedentedthough, is it?
Because if we look at TaylorSwift, she is she is what she's
about as famous as MichaelJackson was at his peak, yeah,
or Britney Spears, I'd say she'sabove Madonna and she's above
Britney.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
This is good.
This is what I wanted an actualranking.
I like it.
Speaker 4 (36:31):
How newsworthy she is .
I would say that she's.
She's up where Michael Jacksonwas in mid-80s, but so it's not
unprecedented.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
No, it's not, but I mean yeah none of those people
have just stepped away frombeing famous, have they?
Or just been able to go?
Oh, do you know what?
I'll hide away for a year andthen I'll go to go down?
Speaker 4 (36:53):
No, because that's in their makeup, isn't it?
But that's, that's answeringyour question.
So that's totally the reverseof my makeup.
I would have to hide away fromit.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
You wouldn't be able to like for years and years and
years.
You'd have to be really, reallydull, and I know you can do it.
Speaker 4 (37:08):
I've got to be really hot off.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
But you couldn't, but I don't think even you can be
that dull.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
But that's the thing, that's where the money comes in
useful, because you could usethat money to you know buy your
own island or buy your ownproperty where you don't ever
have to interact with you knowconcerts and fans and TV shows.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
I can see how you'd build a global fan base with
this attitude there.
I just want more, more more so,more so.
Just like I said I want to fuckoff, I never have to do
anything.
I'll talk to them.
I mean, luckily I don't thinkanyone's going to get that
famous.
Speaker 4 (37:43):
I mean, dave might make it If we do, yeah, you'll
know.
You'll know what I do next.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Yeah, we'll know exactly what the strategy is
from you.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
A bond villain on an island in the middle of the
Pacific.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Okay so quarterfinal three two massive tracks out of
the woods versus shake it off.
I'm going to vote for shake itoff.
Speaker 4 (38:29):
Right like it, Steve.
Oh, shake it off.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Really.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
It's absolutely iconic.
Oh, I love that it's a timelesspop song it's fun it's upbeat.
Speaker 4 (38:39):
It's near perfect from start to finish.
Yeah, it's just a shame thatshe stole it.
We'll get onto that, shall weJust?
Speaker 2 (38:47):
the lawyer there just dangling that little bomb shelf
.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
All about the kick-drop.
Oh my God.
Speaker 4 (38:57):
In my pursuit of fame , yeah, but you then run away
violently so you can improveyour golf game.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
I do really like it.
I do really like out of thewoods, I really do.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
I love the vocals, I just love the sort of atmosphere
of it.
But it's again shake it offjust means you see that song
performed at so many events andit just resonates with everybody
.
It's one of those melodies andthose sort of rhythms and, like
Dave says, that sort of maybeslightly familiar sort of motif
(39:28):
or whatever.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
I think the kids would call it a sick beat.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Yeah, exactly, maybe the kids five Guy.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
what were you voting for?
Speaker 4 (39:36):
I'm voting for shake it off.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Shake it off.
Okay, so it's three-nil.
I would have voted for out ofthe woods, but I'm just the host
tonight.
What can I do?
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Nothing.
You have no say in it, which Iregret.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
Okay, final quarter, final.
It's style versus bad blood.
I think that you like it.
(40:26):
We come back every time.
We never go out of style.
We never go out of style.
You've got that long hair,slick back, white teacher, and I
got that good girl face and aslight little skirt, and when we
(40:49):
go crashing down, we come backevery time.
We never go out of style.
We never go out of style.
We haven't talked about styleyet, have we no?
Tell me about it, guy.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
I love style.
I think it's in the top end ofmy favourites of this record.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Right.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Good.
I just think it has that sortof arpeggiated synth.
I love the Americana and thelyrics.
I like the visual imagery itpaints.
I think it's brilliant.
Basically, style just feelslike a pure emotion and it's a
carefree roof down on theCadillac driving through America
.
Welcome to New York.
(41:31):
It carries on that vibe for me.
It's a vibe I really, reallylike and enjoy this record.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Yeah, I think it's very emblematic of the album.
Dave, what are you going for?
Speaker 4 (41:42):
The same, I agree.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Oh, I love it.
Steve, what are you up for?
Speaker 3 (41:48):
I agree.
Yes, it's 3-0.
It's gone through 3-0.
The semifinal the semifinal now.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Okay, so we're at our first semifinal.
Welcome to New York vs BlankSpace.
Steve, talk to me.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Oh, I mean, that's the opening one-two punch, isn't
it?
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Smashers.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
You know how I feel about bookending and I don't
think this book is ever perfect.
Yes, I don't think it'sperfectly bookended because I
agree with Dave.
I think this level has been abetter ending.
A quality one-two sucker punchfrom an album is a big thing for
me and that is a qualityone-two sucker punch.
So trying to put them upagainst each other, that's.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
Oh, I mean, I know which way I'm going.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Gone Give me your vote.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
I'm going welcome to New York because I think it's, I
love it.
Well, that's gone through,because I know for a fact.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Dave is definitely going to vote for that as well,
so it's gone through.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
Guy just give us a commiserations for Blank Space.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
So talk to me about Blank Space.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Yeah, like I said before, it's like it's up there
with her best really for me.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
It's phenomenal.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
I love that.
It is essentially a reallytraditional chord sequence.
It's a do what, it's thatclassic do what sort of
unchained melody kind of youknow it's the same chord
progression.
It's CA, minor FG, it's a realcountry sort of thing, but it's
got all this hip hop and sort ofreinvention and just just a
mishmash of so many differentthings.
(43:18):
It just feels like the perfectcombination of her kind of
country roots, her forwardthinking sonics and the
production and lyrically youknow that high school drama kind
of diary, really intimate,personal, you know sort of lyric
really, and I think it's.
I think it wins.
For me in this semi-final.
It's blank space that I'd liketo put through.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Oh no, no, no, Steve, if I could jump in into someone
else's body, jump into DavidHughes right now, only briefly,
I will not outstay my welcomefor everyone's benefit, but I
would vote for welcome to you.
I can't.
It's over to the real, actualDavid Hughes, who's just come
off the golf course dressed asTaylor Swift.
No one knows why.
What are you voting for, dave?
(44:05):
I agree with Guy.
Speaker 4 (44:09):
It's blank space.
The production is so well puttogether.
I love all the littleflourishes of noise that you get
in the background.
The attention to detail isbrilliant on that song and
misheard lyrics.
What are the?
The lonely Starbucks lovers?
Yeah, I think I think it's alot.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
I've got a lot of Starbucks lovers, isn't it?
But I see it's one of other ofthose.
But it's like one of the mostbrilliantly misheard lyrics of
all time.
And it's interesting as wellbecause on the Taylor's version
re-record, I suspected she mightsort of try to clean it up so
you don't mishear it, but it'slike they've advised her to sing
it exactly the same.
So if you wish to continuemishearing it as Starbucks
(44:48):
lovers, you can, which isbrilliant.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
What is the actual lyrics?
It's all like in here as well.
What is the actual lyrics?
Speaker 3 (44:57):
Got a long list of ex-lovers.
Got a long list of ex-lovers.
Wow, I mean it's like yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
When you say it's like even close, it's crazy.
Okay, so, Dave, you're votingfor blank space, so it's going
through to the final.
Our second semi-final is Shakeit Off versus Style.
Yeah, this is a reallydifficult one.
Speaker 4 (45:22):
This is the most difficult one, I think, so far.
Shake it Off against Style.
They're just both great, greatpop songs.
They're up there both.
What top three for me on thisalbum.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
Yeah, same I think I think genuinely do think this
album is basically akin to thatof like a thriller, in terms of
it's got so many singles, it'sso strong and sort of it came
out.
You know it was invented forher and I think also Michael
Jackson as well.
You know there was a reason whyBeater has rock guitars on it,
because it was a time here hewas deliberately trying to
(45:58):
corner the MTV market thatwouldn't play R&B and Soul.
They wanted to play rock.
So he kind of sort of adoptedthose sonics to kind of get him
into that world.
And I think Taylor's doing asimilar thing.
You know she's aspirational,she wants to be bigger than ever
and you are limited as acountry artist from a global
perspective.
So getting into a pop sphereopens up.
(46:19):
You know it is the mainstream,it is a bit of everything.
It's not, you know, only goingto be on a certain radio station
.
The amount of singles and thejust consistency of the record,
combined with her status and hersort of rise.
It's very similar.
I think it's.
It should be talked about inthat, in that kind of
conversation.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
Okay, so come on, talk to you about these two
songs.
What's going through?
Speaker 4 (46:44):
Or shake it off great , great pop songs upbeat.
It's fun.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
Yeah, I agree with you, lightning on your feet,
dave, when you dance do younever miss a beat.
Speaker 4 (46:54):
No, the reverse of that.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
You always miss a beat.
Speaker 3 (46:59):
Are you?
Speaker 1 (46:59):
thunder on your feet.
Speaker 4 (47:06):
Style.
You know that feeling thatinvokes it.
For that reason I'd go forstyle and style.
I mean, I've heard both ofthese are gazillion times, but
style just never gets old.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
Yeah, I don't know.
I think style has a more of asophistication than than shake
it off.
You know.
I think it's a more grown,mature sort of sonic and feel,
you know, we should probablytalk about shake it off in terms
of what you were looting tooearly.
It has that very hey Mickey,kind of 60s sort of pop
throwback vibe to it.
(47:38):
It's even got a little bit of, alittle bit of beat it in there
in the brass, don't, don't,don't, don't, don't, kind of
that sort of repetitive stabthing and it's.
You know, you do anything whereyou had that boom kind of that
sort of vibe and you've got.
You've got kids, you've gotparents.
It gets played at weddings, itgets plays at office parties, it
gets played on the radio allthe time.
It's a sync song that everybrand is going to want to do
(48:01):
because it's such a feel goodrecord.
What's a sync song?
A sync song is where yousynchronize the audio to visual.
So you could do that.
That could be under an advert,that could be in a movie, in a
famous scene in a movie.
But it is also her kind of, youknow, a very call to arms kind
of song.
For, like we've talked aboutthose, those sort of more
outcast people who make feel youknow they're not the be all and
(48:23):
end all at school or you can'tnot hear that song and feel good
.
It's like.
It's like that Pharrell song,happy, you know it's a similar
vibe, it's just it's a song thatjust, you know it's primary
colors and it just goes straightfor the jugular really.
But but yeah, style for me,yeah, starly's, just that slight
.
I could listen to style anytime, anywhere, and I think it would
(48:47):
probably be my favorite out ofthe two that I had to pick.
Okay which you do, which you do.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
I'm lucky that guy and Dave, you've got style.
Steve, have you got a style?
Speaker 3 (48:59):
I was struggling with this because I was so
completely sure that Shake itOff was just utterly iconic and
unassailable.
And then I listened to theTaylor's version and I was like,
oh, they've put on this likereally bad Casio keyboards, sort
of towards the end in thebackground, and I thought, god,
(49:21):
that's a terrible decision.
I'm going to get back andlisten to the original only to
realize that it's in theoriginal as well.
However, I think I've still gotto vote for it because it's
just totally iconic and againthat I love the fact, like in
Welcome to New York, it's such astatement, slightly different
type of statement.
It's that thing of okay, ifyou're going to say all these
(49:41):
things about me and the pressdating people, then I'm going to
, I am going to absolutely fullon, totally address this in a
way that you know.
It's like when you know peoplebully you and you just laugh at
them and then they can't doanything anymore.
It's so potent.
Yeah, it's got me shaking off.
For me it's got to be nice,Okay.
Speaker 1 (49:59):
well, unfortunately, I think Dave and Guy style has
pushed it out.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
All good.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
So we reach a final.
What is next for Taylor Swift?
Want to ask that question, doyou think, dave?
What is next for?
Is she going to run forpresident?
Speaker 4 (50:14):
What's next for Taylor Swift?
Well, after she's finished theEuras tour, which will be like
sometime in 2025, I think by thetime she's got around the whole
world.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
Five continents, yeah , the whole world, yeah because
she's.
Speaker 4 (50:26):
She's done America now, hasn't she?
And next is she's on to South.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
America isn't she.
Speaker 4 (50:30):
And then she comes to the rest of the world in 2024.
I mean, she must be where.
She's definitely got two morealbums to release.
So she's got Reputation,taylor's version, and the debut
Taylor Swift Taylor's version,to re-release, which I guess
will be some point next year.
I don't know when do you gofrom here.
Speaker 3 (50:49):
Another album who knows, have to wait and see Some
sort of very meta sitcom whereshe plays herself, but an evil
version I think it'll be asitcom where Dave is in the body
of Taylor Swift.
Speaker 2 (51:04):
Re-launched Quantum.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
League with Ziggy.
Call it Turning Taylor orsomething like that.
Speaker 3 (51:08):
Yeah, exactly that's.
Amazing.
Speaker 4 (51:11):
I call it Swift Exit.
Speaker 3 (51:15):
Oh my god, let's pitch it, let's pitch it.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Netflix was definitely green.
If we can get Taylor on board,I reckon I think no one's
expecting it.
Steve, what's next for TaylorSwift?
A sitcom when she swaps bodieswith a middle-aged man who
refuses even to make small talk,let alone be famous?
It's amazing.
I'd watch it.
I do you know what?
(51:38):
I think, taylors, people aregonna pass on this guys.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
It's niche, I agree but I know, make what you'd love
to watch and I'd love to watchit.
Speaker 1 (51:48):
Amazing.
Okay, so we're getting to afinal.
We've got final of 1989, yes,dave Woo.
Um, hey, by the way, 1989.
We've done three albums on thispodcast from 1989.
Do you know what they are?
Speaker 3 (52:02):
Uh, stenrose's first album.
Speaker 1 (52:03):
Correct, uh.
Speaker 4 (52:05):
Disintegration yes From 1989?
Speaker 3 (52:11):
1989?
.
Speaker 1 (52:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (52:14):
Right, go on.
Then what's the third one?
Then go on.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
It's a it's a least popular podcast.
It's Do Little by the Pixies.
Speaker 3 (52:22):
Ohhhh, it's Do Little .
Speaker 2 (52:25):
So, unpopular and blanked it from my mind.
Speaker 1 (52:30):
There you go bit of.
Speaker 2 (52:32):
Just as for Do Little .
Speaker 1 (52:32):
Let's take this with fans a bit of McCartney and
Goldchat.
Okay, our final is blank spaceversus style.
Talk to me, guy, a specialguest.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
Yeah, this is hard, man, this is um so hard.
This isn't hard, but this isthe beat of this album.
It was always going to be ahard Least.
Semi-final.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
Whatever from the semi-final it was incredibly
hard.
There's so many.
Speaker 4 (52:52):
Was it always going to be these two?
Speaker 3 (52:55):
I don't know no it's not what I expected at all.
Speaker 1 (52:57):
What did you expect at all?
Speaker 3 (53:00):
I expected um shake it off to be here and I, if my
final is Shaking off and welcometo New York.
Yeah, I would go.
I did not expect uh.
Speaker 4 (53:12):
Well, steve, shake it off and welcome to New York.
Are in the third, fourthplayoff.
So which one would win?
Welcome to New York.
Okay, gets the bronze medal.
Shake it off.
Finishes fourth.
Speaker 1 (53:25):
But this, I think, is Dave and Guy's final.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
I think you're both Well, yeah, I think shake it off
was was literally picked.
I mean, I've been, I've beenTying with which one was going
to win out of those two,probably all day and I have to
stress, it's very close to shakeit off and style, but, um,
ultimately with yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:42):
Mine if you're interested.
No, I'm not is, but it wouldhave been out of the woods and
welcome to New York.
I think they're brilliant,absolutely.
I really love out of the woods.
I'm surprised it went out whenit did.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
But yeah, it's going to be.
Can't see the woods for thedream.
It's going to be a difficultone.
Um, yeah, I genuinely, as ofthis moment, I do not know which
one I'm going to pick and Ithink that Well, that's great.
Speaker 1 (54:05):
That's exactly the type of tension we want to build
on.
Steve, talk to me.
Speaker 3 (54:10):
I am genuinely surprised that I've got this far
.
Speaker 1 (54:13):
Wow I like it a lot, less tension.
Speaker 3 (54:16):
Um well, no, I can guess where you're going, I'm
not going to vote, I know.
I do love the chorus.
It's very summery.
But I'm slightly surprised tosee it here Because it's not, I
don't think, even in my top fiveon this album.
Um, so it's got to be blankspace, which is just unassayably
great.
Speaker 1 (54:35):
Our first vote has landed blank space and it is an
absolute banger.
I think this is one of the mostdream songs I've ever heard.
Yes, it's the stonker.
It's no surprise that's got tovote Dave.
Speaker 4 (54:45):
Blank space is the best pop song among these two,
probably the most well produced.
It's the one I could imagineQuincy Jones producing.
Style gives me a warm glow, soI'm going to vote for style.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
Oh, he's made it exciting.
Guy, the as a guest, it isperfectly right that you should
have the deciding vote.
I feel honoured, uh, okay, so.
Speaker 2 (55:12):
Are you full of?
Speaker 1 (55:13):
style, or are you just a blank space?
Speaker 2 (55:16):
Having thought about it and I've actually just been
looking at reminding myself ofsome of the lyrics actually,
because there's a part in blankspace where I genuinely get
goosebumps.
It's when that sort of gangvocal kind of comes in and you
love the game.
It sort of launches into thatsort of post chorus part and uh,
I think there's a trick on thisalbum.
I think you hear on many songswhere there's layers of vocals
(55:37):
and there's gangs and there's alot of this sort of like crowd
vocal sort of sound which I findreally I just love that sound.
It's a really euphoric sound.
Style has it in places as well,and I think, if I'm going to
have to pick, you do.
Speaker 1 (55:51):
Let's help with this podcast.
Speaker 2 (55:53):
I'm going to fill in blank space with the word winner
Because it has won my vote inthis competition.
I think it is the pinnacle ofher being self-referential.
The Americana imagery, theproduction, as Dave said.
I have to second that.
It's like it's insanelybrilliant.
It's blank space, you know.
Speaker 1 (56:15):
It is you listen to that.
Speaker 2 (56:16):
I go back to that demo that you listen to.
On the bonus I know we're notdoing the bonus tracks, but like
there's that version of herplaying it and you can just hear
the excitement of Max Martinhere in the song In the
voicemail though.
Yeah, just going, you can tellhe knows that is that something
special and that she's broughtin at the right time in her
career.
He's been the person to receiveit.
And then they just built on itand made it sonically something
(56:37):
that's just perfection, pop,perfection.
Speaker 5 (57:07):
Hey, hey, I'm going to go down in flames.
This is like an early 2000sNelly track.
Now.
Speaker 1 (57:30):
It wins.
So it's filled in the blankspace on what is the winner of
McCartney Go 1989.
Welcome to McCartney and Gold podcast, where we
discuss an awesome album, takeits songs and pick them against
one another in a knockout styleformat.
What album are we doing thismonth?
Well, I'm kind of imagining alot of people will be coming to
this podcast for the first time,drawn by the bright lights of
Taylor Swift.
So welcome to new podcast.
It's been waiting for you.
If there's been a blank spacein your life, hopefully we've
(00:20):
got the style to help you shakeit off.
I mean, all you had to do wasstay and after that terrible set
of puns, I wish you wouldTonight we're going to party
like it's 1989.
I'm your host, brett, and I'mjoined by my three guests
sitting in Contrary Corner.
The man who puts the cons intoContrary it's David Hughes.
Hey, hey, hey.
Next to him is the fellow whoputs the rant into intolerant
(00:42):
it's Stephen Sumner.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Good evening to you all on the same note Lovely.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
And lastly, our special guest, one half of GXL
Music, genius producer and alsothe youngest person on the pod
tonight, the man who puts thepert into expert.
It's Guy Langley.
Thank you very much.
So tonight we're going to bedoing Taylor's version of 1989.
We're going to be doing thesongs up until Clean.
So it goes from New York toClean those 13 songs.
(01:11):
So, chaps, are we excited to bedoing an album from the 21st
century?
Speaker 4 (01:15):
It's very rare for us .
Speaker 1 (01:17):
So I won't get a vote tonight.
Dave, guy and Steve, you'regoing to have the vote, so I'm
just going to be hosting.
Okay, so we're getting into ourfirst round.
You ready, yep.
Yes, welcome welcome to NewYork versus I Know Places.
I Know Places.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
For me it's a very easy decision.
They're both Ryan Teder tunes.
When I say tunes I meanproduced by Ryan Teder.
I think this album is quite asI'm sure we'll get into is quite
infamous for taking a countryartist and going the full on pop
route and it was reallyinteresting to see who she kind
of employed the services ofreally to kind of enhance her
songwriting.
(02:57):
And when I say they're RyanTeder songs I purely mean, you
know he co-collaborated with her.
She's very much a driving forceand actually always has been.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
But there were a lot of producers on this work.
There she works with a lot ofdifferent producers.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah, there were kind of four main different groups
really.
Ryan Teder is his own kind ofentity, there's Max Martin and
Shellback, and then there's JackAntonoff and there's also, I
think, nathan Chapman, herlong-running sort of country
buddy.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I think Imogen Heep as well.
Oh yes, Imogen Heep.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
I forgot yeah, which is kind of a bit of an outlier,
that track.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
But so of all of them , which were the Swedish heavy
metal influences that are allover this album?
Well, yeah, funnily enough.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Max Martin and Shellback are both.
You know.
They come from a world of power, ballads and rock.
That's their kind of upbringing, and what they've managed to
achieve is nothing other thansort of incredible.
Really, since they came intomusic in the late 90s through to
now, they're involved in everybig pop artist.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
In the producer WhatsApp groups that you must be
long to guy, I'm presumingthere's just like a big WhatsApp
group for all the producers inthe world.
I mean, we're not thatorganised to me yeah what's the
kind of opinion amongst allthose producers that?
How successful is Max Martin?
Are they like?
Is he one of the?
Yeah, he's the best.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah, he is the pinnacle really.
He's probably the mostsuccessful songwriter of our
generation.
For sure there might be one ortwo that have had a similar kind
of hot sort of minute reallyfor a couple of decades, in
places like there's Dr Luke andthere's Timbaland.
There's a couple of otherpeople like Pharrell as well, I
think have had long careers indifferent ways, but Max Martin
(04:43):
is just a different animal in myview.
He continues that legacy ofSwedish melodic pop.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
A fine legacy from ABBA to the Hives, to Max Martin
Exactly.
Dave, what are you thinkingabout these two songs?
Speaker 4 (04:59):
I mean welcome to New York is intended consciously to
be like a statement of whereshe wants to go.
I know places.
It's not one of the strongerones for me on this album.
It's about, lyrically, it'sabout running from unnamed
predators trying to pursue acouple in a relationship, so it
(05:20):
sounds like a paparazzi song tome.
It's good.
It's good, but not the mostinteresting thing on the album.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Oh, I mean, I hate to say this, but I agree with
everything Dave said.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Oh, you didn't agree with Dave.
I did agree with Dave.
Come on, that's a USP.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
It's very upsetting because not only do I have the
same opinion of the songs, but Iagree that it does.
I know places comes across as abit of a sort of paparazzi
whinge.
It's perfectly acceptable, butI'm a big, big sucker for
welcome to New York on a coupleof levels, again irritatingly
agreeing with Dave about thewhole statement thing, and I
mean that's well known to befair.
But yeah, I know places has togo here, surely?
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Guy hasn't been waiting for you.
Yeah, welcome to New York forme and Steve, is that a three?
Speaker 3 (06:04):
It is a three-nil.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
That's uh, welcome to New York.
Goes through to the quarterfinals.
So the next round is WildestVideo Game Dreams versus how you
Get the Girl.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Wildest Video Game Dreams.
So that must be a reference to.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Lana Del Rey.
There we go.
It sounds a bit similar to me,is it not?
To anyone else?
Speaker 2 (07:27):
It's very yeah, it's very much of that world
Cinematic swoon to it.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
It's got that whole thing he even talks about
dresses.
Both of them got reference tosummer dresses and summer they
kind of.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Oh, taylor Swift does love a summer dress reference,
though, doesn't she?
She really does that's, so thatcomes up a lot.
It's, it's.
I'm fascinated endlessly by howmuch sex there is in Taylor
Swift songs, and yet it's alwayskind of all-american sex.
It's very nice, wholesome.
I've got red lipstick on andthat nice dress.
(08:01):
You like sex rather than likefilth, but there's loads of it.
It's like a really interestingjuxtaposition.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
It's like rather than AC DC sex, you mean.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Yeah, or like really, really wholesome, without you
ever sort of coming out the endof an album thinking, oh, I feel
a bit dirty now.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Is this a love album?
I mean, a lot of the songs areabout love, aren't they?
Speaker 2 (08:22):
I think it's a bit of that.
I think it's also her playingwith the perception of her quite
a lot lyrically.
There's a lot of talking aboutpress and where she is, what
people write about her, andthat's why I think it resonates
and why she's always resonated.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
She's almost airing her dirty laundry in coded
little ways, there's a lot ofself-consciousness about it,
which is redolent of modern fame, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (08:50):
I would say self, not to correct you, but just I
think it's self-awareness ratherthan self-consciousness,
because self-conscious feelslike she's uptight about it, but
I think she's not.
It's beautiful, she's likeself-aware Good.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Thanks, sir.
By the way, new listeners.
Steve is an English teacher, soI've just been, I've literally
been schooled.
But how you get the girl isprobably the least modern pop of
all the songs in this album.
It just feels more bubblegumpop to me.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Yeah the beat.
It sounds like sort of 80s, 90spop.
But that's fine, I like it,it's nice.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
And wildest dreams.
That, for me, is my yeah, Ilove that song out of those two.
I think that's her tryingsomething different vocally.
I think it's really cinematicand it's really.
It really stands out, it'sreally refreshing.
Whereas how you get the girlsounds, yeah, it sounds like a
Swedish pop song Insert artisthere kind of almost.
It sounds a bit like a OneDirection song to me.
(09:47):
It's kind of got that sort ofenergy and that drive.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
Well, early Brit, which was Max Martin.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, absolutely, and as a result it sounds a tiny
bit dated almost, whereasWildest Dreams kind of, doesn't
it?
It sort of sonically soundsgreat and as a song and hearing
a thing like that, I think itreally stands up, okay, steve.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
I think how you get the girl is probably going out
here.
So I would like to talk for thefirst time about a Taylor Swift
signature thing that happens alot in this song, which is the
which I reference in myintroduction Hello, which is the
same note melodies, which is amassive Taylor Swift thing and
(10:26):
I'm endlessly fascinated by it.
It's like again, it's like ifyou sort of use any technique,
whether it's in literature ormusic or anything else, if you
use repetition because you can'tthink what else to do, your
audience will know.
But if you use repetition as adeliberate tool, that also you
(10:47):
know your audience will feel it.
And she seems to, because I duginto this quite a lot.
She seems to use the singlenote melodies and that's how you
get the girl goes up a littlebit, but I mean, you know it's
the start of that really reallyclose, almost single note melody
and in some other songs, but itreally is all on the same note
(11:09):
and it seems to be a thing thatshe does to try and get the
lyric across so that you focuson the lyric rather than on the
melody.
And also she fixes it a lot ofthe time, fixes inverted commas
by doing harmonies around it sothat you listen to the lyric,
because the lyrics on the samenote but the harmonies give it a
(11:29):
sort of lushness.
I'm endlessly fascinated by it.
I think it's a reallyinteresting technique and again,
the comparison, weirdly, isthat I always come back to a
synaptra because she seems to bedoing this thing of I want the
lyric to be heard and to beforegrounded.
And I want to tell you a story.
I'm not doing a Mick Jaggerexile on Main Street, muddy, you
(11:52):
know, mix it in the backgroundDoesn't really matter what I'm
saying, it's absolutely a FrankSinatra.
Here's a story.
I want you to hear it and Ithink that's what the same note
thing seems to be about.
But I'm really fascinated by it.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Is that that is indicative of modern pop.
The lyric has become reallyfront and center, especially in
American artists, where hip hopis such a huge influence in
contemporary pop, I think it'sit's become even more relevant
and powerful and impactful tohave the lyrics as a as a as a
star of the show, and that inTaylor's been an artist that's
(12:27):
really taking that to the nextlevel.
And you know, like Steve said,it makes you listen and it makes
you explore.
But I'm waiting for Wilder'sDreams.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Dave, yeah, I'm voting for Wilder's Dreams.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
Oh, lots of consensus this evening.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
This is this is wildly exciting with three,
three, three nils going through,okay so.
So the next round is this lovea ballad versus all you had to
do was stay a pop banger.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Yeah, it is, isn't.
It is a pop task, it is a lotof pop bangers.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
I mean, this is.
I didn't ask you at the start,so I'm going to ask you kind of
halfway through how does thisalbum sit for you?
I mean, it's a huge pop album,is it not?
It's got such strength in debt.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
It's massively important, this album to me and
my life, because I've gotteenage daughters, which I've
mentioned before on the podcast,and this is something that we
can share together this album.
We played it a lot in the caras they were growing up, and
(14:39):
particularly this album, yeah,particularly this album.
Reds as well, and I think thisis so poppy, this album, that no
matter where you fall on themusic spectrum, whatever your
personal preferences are, almostanyone can get into this album
because it's so catchy andaccessible.
So my girls love it, I love it,their mum loves it, and we all
(15:00):
come from different musicalpreferences, but we can all
converge on this album.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Her record company sort of said oh, please, please,
please, put at least two orthree, maybe just even two
country tracks on this.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Get a bit of fiddle on there.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
You're a country artist, but what are you doing?
You're going to alienate yourwhole audience.
And she said this brilliantphrase.
She said if you chase tworabbits, you lose both of them.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Having said that I think this love is is a country
song that they've tried to justadd a couple of synths to it.
I think it sounds like it.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
I completely agree with that.
I think it sounds like it waswritten as a country song.
I still think it's trying toremove the country from it.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
We've passionately argued for her being an absolute
superstar and saying Fuck it,don't worry, let's do it.
And then you've just said butactually, having said that, this
love is a country song.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Yeah, amazing In structure.
It does feel like one.
Yes, but any countryinstrumentation has been removed
from it.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Apart from the acoustic guitars.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
I love this love.
I think it sounds like anothercinematic one, a bit like Wilder
Streams, and I feel like thislove could have finished the
album.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Yes, agreed.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
This love?
Are you voting for this love,dave?
Is it that love that you'revoting for?
Speaker 4 (16:12):
I am.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
We might have some dissension.
Finally, vague Possibility ofexcitement, guy, what you're
voting for.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
What's our ship against?
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Oh my, goodness, all you had to do was stay, guy.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, all you had to do.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Please, please, stay.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
We need to finish the podcast You're getting this,
this love from this, this lovefor me.
Like I said it, I just it feelsa little bit hedging your bets
as a Production and as a song.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Okay, steve, you've got casting vote.
This is almost exciting.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Okay, all you had to do is stay.
Is is again another classicexample of the one note thing.
Except she fixes the one notething here by going all you had
to do was and then goes up tothe octaves day.
It's like, oh okay, you'redoing the same note but you've
gone up an octave for it, whichis it is an interesting one.
Again she's playing that game.
I'm interested in it, I like it.
(17:04):
But I have to say this lovegets my vote here, much as it
sickens me to agree with Daveover guy.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
I was hoping to go with guy here, but you know you
were trying to be down with thekids in a bit cool, but you've
had to go with Understand.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
About it, but I just love the melody, I love the
lyric, yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I'd voted with guy, obviously.
But yeah, sorry guy, I'veinvited you into my own personal
nightmare, which is having todeal with these two on a on a
monthly basis and theiroutrageous decisions for someone
.
I just needed to set up aself-help group, really, so
you're just been invited on Togo through this process to then
empathize with me.
Okay, next, that goes through.
(17:47):
So this love goes through tothe quarter finals.
So the next round keep it clean.
It's clean versus the massivebanger that is out of the woods.
Oh, oh, oh yeah, I think I'mfinally clean.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Oh Well, clean is what actually finishes the album
.
It is a great way to finish thealbum.
I think it's a great song.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
I thought you would.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
I think it's very confident lyric writing in it as
well.
So in it she's comparinggetting over a relationship to
recovering from an addiction.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah, and the teaming up with image and heap is a is
not only artistically great, butit's also quite shrewd and
clever in terms of positioningher and giving her a bit of
depth and a bit of artistry.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Really, that she's a very who's image in heap Imaging
here.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
I mean I'll be.
I'll be frankly honest, I don'tknow that much about her in
terms of her story.
I know obviously the big songHide and Seek, which has been
sampled many a time, very famousfor using vocoders and
harmonizers and being a kind ofelectronic influence sort of
folk artists, I guess you say ona very yeah but that's, that's
(20:25):
doing it probably a disservice,because I know a lot of people
that you know Obsess over herstuff and she has such a
plethora of work.
It's she's, again, someone youwould not expect a pop artist to
be able to collaborate with Onthe same album at this time.
Anyway, as as max martin, it'sa kind of it's very much two
ends of the spectrum, which isquite interesting, I think, and
(20:46):
I think Cleanser great, thegreat result of that.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Okay, steve, what are you feeling?
Are you out of the wood yet?
Are you loving?
Being again loving some forestbathing.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Again out of the woods.
It's happening again.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yeah, but the backing vocals are immense.
On that it's absolutely.
Again, it's not me.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
It's not me complaining.
I am not.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
I am not making good complaint, I think well.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
I'm just endlessly fascinated by it.
I mean, I'm fascinated by howmuch she's prepared to use it
and how much she does with itit's, it's and how you can still
make something so catchy.
This is really hard for me.
I like both of these a lot.
I'm gonna go out of the woodsbecause I like clean.
(21:37):
I think clean is a good ending,but it occupies a similar space
to this love, which I justvoted for, so I'm gonna take
clean out of there and, yeah, goout the woods.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Nice.
Oh god, dave, what are youvoting for?
I'm voting for clean, of courseyou are.
That's why I waited to getwhat's went to you first, and
now I'm going to the decider.
Guy, that's good hosting.
Give it to me, guy, your vote.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
So, as much as I love clean, I think it's it's got a
real depth to it.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Out of the woods is just If you had never brought
the words, I have come running.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
I know, I think you would have suffered.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
I know, I know of course you're voting for out of
the woods.
It's immense, it's absolutelyhuge.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Yeah, they have the albums of.
You know she wanted to makethis 80s big pop.
You know reference album, whichis, you know, an era where
people ditched traditionalinstruments and picked up you
know, weird ones and newtechnologies and layering of
vocals and I think this song inparticular is this one where
she's really re embracing thatand playing with vocal layering
(22:37):
and yeah, just, it's just yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Adam and would be proud of this, wouldn't he guy?
He'd absolutely love it.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
He would indeed he'd love a bit of vocal layering he
does.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
What do you think of her as a singer people?
I think that's a fascinatingdiscussion as well.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Well, I've got a producer here, I've got a singer
also, that's you, steve, andthen I've got Dave.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
So let's go to Dave first, would you reckon her
voice has changed over the yearsand that's shown up in the
tailors versions where you canliterally compare young Taylor
singing to Modern Taylor singingand it hear the difference in
her voice.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
I prefer the new voice.
By the way, I think she soundslike a woman of the world, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
I think Taylor sits in a position where she's not
the biggest powerhouse vocalist,but she doesn't need to be,
because that's not what she'sabout and that's not what she's
singing about, and that's not.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
No, but she probably has the most powerful connection
with her fans, doesn't she?
Which?
Speaker 4 (23:31):
is absolutely how do you describe her voice?
It's a good question really,because I think that is it.
Is it even that distinctive?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
not, not necessarily, but it is only only in the sort
of what she sings about, a whenand how she conducts herself,
not only in the song but in herpersonal life.
It's, yeah, it's not.
It's not a very distinctive,you know on paper, distinctive
vocal.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
By.
Imagine she'd be a joy to workwith as a producer.
She just turned up be super pro, oh yeah almost zero on to rise
, just nail every take.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Yeah, I think she, you know she, she knows what she
wants, I think she'll.
She'll know harmony, she'llknow Arrangements, she would
know like everything in a career.
It's her driving it.
It's not, she's not riding onother people's coattails.
They're there to sort ofimprove what she's already
thought of coming to the studioto work on.
And you know, I think that's agood example is the bonus tracks
on this record actually, whichI think is, without going on too
(24:31):
much of a tangent, is quiteincredible really, because when
the original album came out,there were three bonus tracks
and they were all the voicememos from the writing sessions
and they were her presenting thesongs to like Max Martin and
Shellback and singing them.
You know, singing blank spacepretty much in its entirety.
It's you know all.
And they were adding littlebits of, you know, backing
vocals and little kind ofEmbellishments.
(24:53):
But essentially it was herdebuting this song to them and
it's, it's, it's all her really.
It's her driving it and it'sthem Feeding off that and but
giving us some more ideas andsome more colors to play with.
But it's, it's her outline,it's her drawing that they're
sort of, they're filling inreally.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Wow, do you?
Speaker 3 (25:08):
realize that I have to say that the the bit where,
the bit where we were jokingabout it before, with a bit
where he said that she's not gota very distinctive vocal,
that's the sort of shit youwould have shut down if I'd said
it.
It's like when, I suggest RingoStowe isn't an amazing drummer,
it's like, and everyone goes topieces.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Oh no, I would never say that the world ends.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Yes, and you know it's like.
You know, I would definitelysaid not a distinctive vocal,
perfect for what she's doing andshe's distinctive in like a
hundred other ways.
But but that is not aparticularly distinctive vocal.
So I agree with you guys.
Well done for reading out myscript.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
It's alright, yeah, the last qualifying round.
Bad blood versus.
I wish you would.
Wish you right here, right now,oh, oh.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Oh, that was that was .
It's one of the few songs nowthat's about a different kind of
relationship, isn't it?
Because she had a?
Falling out who's it is.
You have a falling out withanother female singer.
Wasn't I forget the Name?
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Katy Perry?
Was it Nicki Minaj?
Was it a Katy Perry?
Speaker 3 (26:55):
It was Katy.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Perry, I thought you were guessing it.
That was your guessing tone.
Your wife actually just keptsaying Nicki Minaj didn't know
how much longer.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
It was just my assessment of your tone of voice
, but so now look like a knob,so let's move on.
Yeah, I like that blood.
I think that blood's good, so Ithink it's.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
It's got a good beats .
It's one for the dance floor.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Yeah, no, I don't think.
I don't think I wish you wouldis as strong I think I wish you
would.
I think is it in the secondhalf of the album tracks seven
yes, I think the first half ofthis album is pretty much
unassailable.
And then and then second halfis really really strong.
But not quite as strong, and Ithink I wish you would is An
example of that.
(27:45):
You know, is it still reallystrong?
Yes, it's just.
There are things that are instrong.
I like bad blood.
I'm gonna write for bad bloodjust because I think it's
interesting to have you know.
It's still a relationship album, but it's a different type of
relationship.
So, yeah, I like it Okay.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
Dave, well, yeah, obviously, obviously bad blood
If that's one of the big things.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
obviously this album they're so good.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
Yeah, it's a great Pop song, very catchy, very
memorable.
Very good pop song.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Which one is your favorite guy?
We've already got two for badblood, but I need it just for
official.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Oh I do I do really like I wish you would.
I love the fact that it's gotthe sample of Finding cannibals
for the snare.
Drive me crazy.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Nice and what?
What year was that recorded?
1989?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
I'm gonna guess there we go top of the class.
I didn't know that a little bitof meta knowledge there but
that that again it's a kind ofthat's a jack Antonov production
and that's kind of that'sslightly more tonative, where
she kind of goes on to nextreally.
But I do really like it.
I love it for that.
I mean, I love that snare soundand I love that sort of that.
It really goes there to the 80skind of world.
(28:49):
But yeah, bad blood for me.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
Dust it's a 3-0.
Okay, yeah, and here's a.
Here's a quiz question for theswifty's listening at home what
connects this song?
I wish you would, with herother songs, breathe the way I
loved you, mary's song, andenchanted.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Is Jeff Beck playing on all of them?
Oh?
Speaker 1 (29:12):
apart from that, that's what I was gonna say.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
It's not that it's.
It's because she mentions thetime 2am in all of those songs.
2am is a frequently used timein Taylor Swift songs.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Welcome to New York.
Versus worldest dreams, it'sour quarterfinals songs about
New York.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
It seems to me that aren't songs about New York
usually about bragging howawesome you are?
Because the chorus of this songis the lights are so bright,
but they never blind me.
New York by Frank Sinatra.
New York, New.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
York, basically bragging, isn't it?
Oh, he's king of the hill.
I'm not even a humble brag,dave.
Empire State of Mind by Jay-Z.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
That's just bragging about everything, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Massive.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
And Englishmen in New York by Sting that's bragging
about drinking tea.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
That's an Englishman bragging which is so out of
character for the English peopleto brag outrageous.
We're gonna take your passportback, sting.
How dare you brag Braggingabout drinking tea?
So I'm gonna smoothly move.
That's nice.
There's a lot of bragging inNew York songs, dave, but why
was it important for her to moveto New York?
Come back to that originalquote.
We usually, which you told usthe you can't chase two rabbits
(30:27):
or you'll lose them both andthat's what she decides to do
this is why and welcome to NewYork is the way she opens this
album and it's kind of like, yes, I'm here, it's pop
Magnificence, right here butit's synth pop and that's the
thing.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
It's not because so, because she was doing pop before
, but it's like it's.
I'm not going to put anacoustic guitar anywhere near
this.
This is like totallyelectronically fabricated,
genre-specific late 80s pop andthat that's that.
That's the difference betweenthis idea of her going oh, she's
getting more poppy with everyalbum, but then it's like 19 and
29.
She's like screw you, this islike I'm all in and I think
(31:01):
that's.
I think that's the difference.
There's still a, there's stilla watermark between the two.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Okay, well, I'm going to push all for a vote, because
we've been wanging on for ages.
We've we've not really talkedmuch about albums in New York,
but I'm hoping that's becauseit's going to go through.
It's going through surely youcan never be sure, dave's in the
room.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Every movie that you watch on Netflix that has a
scene where it's like wide shotof New York.
It's this song and it's someonecrossing the Brooklyn Bridge,
zoom out of a taxi cab and it'sjust Yellow cab.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
I'm walking here.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
someone says that Exactly, there's something about
Taylor Swift and Rom Combs andthat's sort of like that.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
You see Sting in the corner having a cup of tea.
Yeah, you know New YorkBasically.
Yeah, exactly, it's the office.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
It's an advertiser's wet dream, so you're voting for.
I'm voting for Welcome to NewYork, just because it sounds
like that first day in a newlife, basically.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Yeah, it's a great opening track for any film or
any album.
Dave, what are you voting for?
Speaker 4 (31:56):
I vote for Wilder's Dreams.
Of course you are, Because it'smoody.
It's got great melody.
I really like it.
I think it's a better song.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
And also, everyone would have expected you to vote
for.
Welcome to New York, so it'sperfect, it's perfect.
Speaker 4 (32:10):
Why would you expect me to vote Welcome to New York,
and not me?
Everyone, everyone?
Speaker 1 (32:13):
else listen.
Of course this guy is going tovote for Welcome to New York.
It's one of the best songs inthe album, but I know you better
than that.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
You keep telling us it's one of the best songs on
the album.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
I wouldn't have it in my top five.
No, I know you wouldn't, but itdefinitely is one of the best
songs on the album.
Yeah, it is so, steve, we'recoming to you for the deciding
vote.
Welcome to New York versusWilder's Dreams.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Okay.
So the thing I like aboutWilder's Dreams particularly is
those lovely bits where, again,she uses vocals so interestingly
to make points and to getlyrics across.
And it's when she does the.
She's so tall but handsome ashell.
And then you get that echoedbackground behind it which
(33:00):
sounds swoony.
It's, he's so tall but handsomeas hell.
And then you get to Wilder'sDreams and it's so emotive.
It's so I'm overplaying thisswooning thing, but I'm doing it
consciously.
It's completely brilliant.
There's no way I can vote forit.
(33:21):
Welcome to New York.
In here, though.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
Well done, okay.
The second quarter final isthis Love versus Making Its
Debut on the podcast Blank Space.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Oh that's a big song.
Oh, it's big what's?
Speaker 1 (33:35):
the name of the album .
Speaker 2 (33:36):
I mean, if I'm going to keep this up, for me that's a
very easy conversation.
Blank Space is a pinnacle ofher songcraft and I think it's,
I think it's one of her bestever songs.
So I mean, sorry to spoil anytension, but that's, that's a
favorite of mine, so that's aspoiler alert.
(33:57):
It's an easy conversation.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
It's not a spoiler alert guy, unless someone else
of one of these two agrees withyou, and then we kind of have
ruined the podcast.
It's dramatic tension.
Okay, so this Love versus BlankSpace, dave, what are you
saying?
Speaker 4 (34:13):
Well, this love is another cinematic one, and I
think it could have finished thealbum.
I really really like it, butit's up against Blank Space and
I will be voting for Blank Space.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Again, I have to not only vote the same way as Dave,
but I have to literally, justbasically, just agree with
everything he just said.
You know, I think I think this,I think this love is, is
brilliant.
I think it should have endedthe album, could have ended the
album, but it's not Blank Space,is it?
No, it is.
It's had a tough draw there.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Okay, so her fame now has just grown and grown as
it's since this album, which wasalmost what nine years ago?
Yeah even more famous now.
I mean, who is more famous inTaylor Swift?
I mean it's difficult to thinkof.
Is she in the top 10 mostfamous people in the world?
We're talking about that kindof level now of insane fame.
How can you cope with that?
Could you cope with that, dave?
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Dave love it.
David, just cruise through it.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
Smooth, yeah, but you do think, don't you?
If you were suddenlytransported into the body of
Taylor Swift, what would yournext move be?
Oh, I like some kind of weirdepisode of Quantum League.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
So you've.
I haven't thought about itactually, Dave.
Speaker 4 (35:22):
I haven't thought about it much, but you seem to
have given it a lot of thought.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot of thinking.
If I was, if I was moved intothe body of Taylor Swift, what
would my next?
Speaker 1 (35:32):
move be no, no, what would my next move be?
I've given it a lot of thought.
Yeah, Haven't you Question mark.
Surprise face, no, what wouldyou do?
I love it.
It's a great.
It's a great question.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
It's a great question , Dave.
I'd stop recording and I'dbecome a recluse.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Fucking hell.
I mean, that's the worstepisode of Quantum League ever,
isn't it?
I mean you just destroyed yeah.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
What?
Just how long would you be arecluse for?
I couldn't deal with any ofthat.
I would.
I would literally stopeverything and hide away, but
your short game would be amazing, wouldn't?
Speaker 1 (36:02):
it.
I would use that to play somegreat courses.
You couldn't, dave, youcouldn't play golf, because you
turn up and they go fucking hell.
Taylor Swift's about to tealoff on the fourth.
That's amazing Good drive.
Speaker 4 (36:13):
Taylor.
Well, it's not unprecedentedthough, is it?
Because if we look at TaylorSwift, she is she is what she's
about as famous as MichaelJackson was at his peak, yeah,
or Britney Spears, I'd say she'sabove Madonna and she's above
Britney.
Speaker 1 (36:28):
This is good.
This is what I wanted an actualranking.
I like it.
Speaker 4 (36:31):
How newsworthy she is .
I would say that she's.
She's up where Michael Jacksonwas in mid-80s, but so it's not
unprecedented.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
No, it's not, but I mean yeah none of those people
have just stepped away frombeing famous, have they?
Or just been able to go?
Oh, do you know what?
I'll hide away for a year andthen I'll go to go down?
Speaker 4 (36:53):
No, because that's in their makeup, isn't it?
But that's, that's answeringyour question.
So that's totally the reverseof my makeup.
I would have to hide away fromit.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
You wouldn't be able to like for years and years and
years.
You'd have to be really, reallydull, and I know you can do it.
Speaker 4 (37:08):
I've got to be really hot off.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
But you couldn't, but I don't think even you can be
that dull.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
But that's the thing, that's where the money comes in
useful, because you could usethat money to you know buy your
own island or buy your ownproperty where you don't ever
have to interact with you knowconcerts and fans and TV shows.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
I can see how you'd build a global fan base with
this attitude there.
I just want more, more more so,more so.
Just like I said I want to fuckoff, I never have to do
anything.
I'll talk to them.
I mean, luckily I don't thinkanyone's going to get that
famous.
Speaker 4 (37:43):
I mean, dave might make it If we do, yeah, you'll
know.
You'll know what I do next.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Yeah, we'll know exactly what the strategy is
from you.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
A bond villain on an island in the middle of the
Pacific.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Okay so quarterfinal three two massive tracks out of
the woods versus shake it off.
I'm going to vote for shake itoff.
Speaker 4 (38:29):
Right like it, Steve.
Oh, shake it off.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Really.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
It's absolutely iconic.
Oh, I love that it's a timelesspop song it's fun it's upbeat.
Speaker 4 (38:39):
It's near perfect from start to finish.
Yeah, it's just a shame thatshe stole it.
We'll get onto that, shall weJust?
Speaker 2 (38:47):
the lawyer there just dangling that little bomb shelf
.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
All about the kick-drop.
Oh my God.
Speaker 4 (38:57):
In my pursuit of fame , yeah, but you then run away
violently so you can improveyour golf game.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
I do really like it.
I do really like out of thewoods, I really do.
Speaker 2 (39:07):
I love the vocals, I just love the sort of atmosphere
of it.
But it's again shake it offjust means you see that song
performed at so many events andit just resonates with everybody
.
It's one of those melodies andthose sort of rhythms and, like
Dave says, that sort of maybeslightly familiar sort of motif
(39:28):
or whatever.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
I think the kids would call it a sick beat.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Yeah, exactly, maybe the kids five Guy.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
what were you voting for?
Speaker 4 (39:36):
I'm voting for shake it off.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Shake it off.
Okay, so it's three-nil.
I would have voted for out ofthe woods, but I'm just the host
tonight.
What can I do?
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Nothing.
You have no say in it, which Iregret.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
Okay, final quarter, final.
It's style versus bad blood.
I think that you like it.
(40:26):
We come back every time.
We never go out of style.
We never go out of style.
You've got that long hair,slick back, white teacher, and I
got that good girl face and aslight little skirt, and when we
(40:49):
go crashing down, we come backevery time.
We never go out of style.
We never go out of style.
We haven't talked about styleyet, have we no?
Tell me about it, guy.
Speaker 2 (41:01):
I love style.
I think it's in the top end ofmy favourites of this record.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Right.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Good.
I just think it has that sortof arpeggiated synth.
I love the Americana and thelyrics.
I like the visual imagery itpaints.
I think it's brilliant.
Basically, style just feelslike a pure emotion and it's a
carefree roof down on theCadillac driving through America
.
Welcome to New York.
(41:31):
It carries on that vibe for me.
It's a vibe I really, reallylike and enjoy this record.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Yeah, I think it's very emblematic of the album.
Dave, what are you going for?
Speaker 4 (41:42):
The same, I agree.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Oh, I love it.
Steve, what are you up for?
Speaker 3 (41:48):
I agree.
Yes, it's 3-0.
It's gone through 3-0.
The semifinal the semifinal now.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
Okay, so we're at our first semifinal.
Welcome to New York vs BlankSpace.
Steve, talk to me.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Oh, I mean, that's the opening one-two punch, isn't
it?
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Smashers.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
You know how I feel about bookending and I don't
think this book is ever perfect.
Yes, I don't think it'sperfectly bookended because I
agree with Dave.
I think this level has been abetter ending.
A quality one-two sucker punchfrom an album is a big thing for
me and that is a qualityone-two sucker punch.
So trying to put them upagainst each other, that's.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
Oh, I mean, I know which way I'm going.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
Gone Give me your vote.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
I'm going welcome to New York because I think it's, I
love it.
Well, that's gone through,because I know for a fact.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Dave is definitely going to vote for that as well,
so it's gone through.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
Guy just give us a commiserations for Blank Space.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
So talk to me about Blank Space.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Yeah, like I said before, it's like it's up there
with her best really for me.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
It's phenomenal.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
I love that.
It is essentially a reallytraditional chord sequence.
It's a do what, it's thatclassic do what sort of
unchained melody kind of youknow it's the same chord
progression.
It's CA, minor FG, it's a realcountry sort of thing, but it's
got all this hip hop and sort ofreinvention and just just a
mishmash of so many differentthings.
(43:18):
It just feels like the perfectcombination of her kind of
country roots, her forwardthinking sonics and the
production and lyrically youknow that high school drama kind
of diary, really intimate,personal, you know sort of lyric
really, and I think it's.
I think it wins.
For me in this semi-final.
It's blank space that I'd liketo put through.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Oh no, no, no, Steve, if I could jump in into someone
else's body, jump into DavidHughes right now, only briefly,
I will not outstay my welcomefor everyone's benefit, but I
would vote for welcome to you.
I can't.
It's over to the real, actualDavid Hughes, who's just come
off the golf course dressed asTaylor Swift.
No one knows why.
What are you voting for, dave?
(44:05):
I agree with Guy.
Speaker 4 (44:09):
It's blank space.
The production is so well puttogether.
I love all the littleflourishes of noise that you get
in the background.
The attention to detail isbrilliant on that song and
misheard lyrics.
What are the?
The lonely Starbucks lovers?
Yeah, I think I think it's alot.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
I've got a lot of Starbucks lovers, isn't it?
But I see it's one of other ofthose.
But it's like one of the mostbrilliantly misheard lyrics of
all time.
And it's interesting as wellbecause on the Taylor's version
re-record, I suspected she mightsort of try to clean it up so
you don't mishear it, but it'slike they've advised her to sing
it exactly the same.
So if you wish to continuemishearing it as Starbucks
(44:48):
lovers, you can, which isbrilliant.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
What is the actual lyrics?
It's all like in here as well.
What is the actual lyrics?
Speaker 3 (44:57):
Got a long list of ex-lovers.
Got a long list of ex-lovers.
Wow, I mean it's like yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
When you say it's like even close, it's crazy.
Okay, so, Dave, you're votingfor blank space, so it's going
through to the final.
Our second semi-final is Shakeit Off versus Style.
Yeah, this is a reallydifficult one.
Speaker 4 (45:22):
This is the most difficult one, I think, so far.
Shake it Off against Style.
They're just both great, greatpop songs.
They're up there both.
What top three for me on thisalbum.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
Yeah, same I think I think genuinely do think this
album is basically akin to thatof like a thriller, in terms of
it's got so many singles, it'sso strong and sort of it came
out.
You know it was invented forher and I think also Michael
Jackson as well.
You know there was a reason whyBeater has rock guitars on it,
because it was a time here hewas deliberately trying to
(45:58):
corner the MTV market thatwouldn't play R&B and Soul.
They wanted to play rock.
So he kind of sort of adoptedthose sonics to kind of get him
into that world.
And I think Taylor's doing asimilar thing.
You know she's aspirational,she wants to be bigger than ever
and you are limited as acountry artist from a global
perspective.
So getting into a pop sphereopens up.
(46:19):
You know it is the mainstream,it is a bit of everything.
It's not, you know, only goingto be on a certain radio station
.
The amount of singles and thejust consistency of the record,
combined with her status and hersort of rise.
It's very similar.
I think it's.
It should be talked about inthat, in that kind of
conversation.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
Okay, so come on, talk to you about these two
songs.
What's going through?
Speaker 4 (46:44):
Or shake it off great , great pop songs upbeat.
It's fun.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
Yeah, I agree with you, lightning on your feet,
dave, when you dance do younever miss a beat.
Speaker 4 (46:54):
No, the reverse of that.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
You always miss a beat.
Speaker 3 (46:59):
Are you?
Speaker 1 (46:59):
thunder on your feet.
Speaker 4 (47:06):
Style.
You know that feeling thatinvokes it.
For that reason I'd go forstyle and style.
I mean, I've heard both ofthese are gazillion times, but
style just never gets old.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
Yeah, I don't know.
I think style has a more of asophistication than than shake
it off.
You know.
I think it's a more grown,mature sort of sonic and feel,
you know, we should probablytalk about shake it off in terms
of what you were looting tooearly.
It has that very hey Mickey,kind of 60s sort of pop
throwback vibe to it.
(47:38):
It's even got a little bit of, alittle bit of beat it in there
in the brass, don't, don't,don't, don't, don't, kind of
that sort of repetitive stabthing and it's.
You know, you do anything whereyou had that boom kind of that
sort of vibe and you've got.
You've got kids, you've gotparents.
It gets played at weddings, itgets plays at office parties, it
gets played on the radio allthe time.
It's a sync song that everybrand is going to want to do
(48:01):
because it's such a feel goodrecord.
What's a sync song?
A sync song is where yousynchronize the audio to visual.
So you could do that.
That could be under an advert,that could be in a movie, in a
famous scene in a movie.
But it is also her kind of, youknow, a very call to arms kind
of song.
For, like we've talked aboutthose, those sort of more
outcast people who make feel youknow they're not the be all and
(48:23):
end all at school or you can'tnot hear that song and feel good
.
It's like.
It's like that Pharrell song,happy, you know it's a similar
vibe, it's just it's a song thatjust, you know it's primary
colors and it just goes straightfor the jugular really.
But but yeah, style for me,yeah, starly's, just that slight
.
I could listen to style anytime, anywhere, and I think it would
(48:47):
probably be my favorite out ofthe two that I had to pick.
Okay which you do, which you do.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
I'm lucky that guy and Dave, you've got style.
Steve, have you got a style?
Speaker 3 (48:59):
I was struggling with this because I was so
completely sure that Shake itOff was just utterly iconic and
unassailable.
And then I listened to theTaylor's version and I was like,
oh, they've put on this likereally bad Casio keyboards, sort
of towards the end in thebackground, and I thought, god,
(49:21):
that's a terrible decision.
I'm going to get back andlisten to the original only to
realize that it's in theoriginal as well.
However, I think I've still gotto vote for it because it's
just totally iconic and againthat I love the fact, like in
Welcome to New York, it's such astatement, slightly different
type of statement.
It's that thing of okay, ifyou're going to say all these
(49:41):
things about me and the pressdating people, then I'm going to
, I am going to absolutely fullon, totally address this in a
way that you know.
It's like when you know peoplebully you and you just laugh at
them and then they can't doanything anymore.
It's so potent.
Yeah, it's got me shaking off.
For me it's got to be nice,Okay.
Speaker 1 (49:59):
well, unfortunately, I think Dave and Guy style has
pushed it out.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
All good.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
So we reach a final.
What is next for Taylor Swift?
Want to ask that question, doyou think, dave?
What is next for?
Is she going to run forpresident?
Speaker 4 (50:14):
What's next for Taylor Swift?
Well, after she's finished theEuras tour, which will be like
sometime in 2025, I think by thetime she's got around the whole
world.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
Five continents, yeah , the whole world, yeah because
she's.
Speaker 4 (50:26):
She's done America now, hasn't she?
And next is she's on to South.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
America isn't she.
Speaker 4 (50:30):
And then she comes to the rest of the world in 2024.
I mean, she must be where.
She's definitely got two morealbums to release.
So she's got Reputation,taylor's version, and the debut
Taylor Swift Taylor's version,to re-release, which I guess
will be some point next year.
I don't know when do you gofrom here.
Speaker 3 (50:49):
Another album who knows, have to wait and see Some
sort of very meta sitcom whereshe plays herself, but an evil
version I think it'll be asitcom where Dave is in the body
of Taylor Swift.
Speaker 2 (51:04):
Re-launched Quantum.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
League with Ziggy.
Call it Turning Taylor orsomething like that.
Speaker 3 (51:08):
Yeah, exactly that's.
Amazing.
Speaker 4 (51:11):
I call it Swift Exit.
Speaker 3 (51:15):
Oh my god, let's pitch it, let's pitch it.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Netflix was definitely green.
If we can get Taylor on board,I reckon I think no one's
expecting it.
Steve, what's next for TaylorSwift?
A sitcom when she swaps bodieswith a middle-aged man who
refuses even to make small talk,let alone be famous?
It's amazing.
I'd watch it.
I do you know what?
(51:38):
I think, taylors, people aregonna pass on this guys.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
It's niche, I agree but I know, make what you'd love
to watch and I'd love to watchit.
Speaker 1 (51:48):
Amazing.
Okay, so we're getting to afinal.
We've got final of 1989, yes,dave Woo.
Um, hey, by the way, 1989.
We've done three albums on thispodcast from 1989.
Do you know what they are?
Speaker 3 (52:02):
Uh, stenrose's first album.
Speaker 1 (52:03):
Correct, uh.
Speaker 4 (52:05):
Disintegration yes From 1989?
Speaker 3 (52:11):
1989?
.
Speaker 1 (52:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (52:14):
Right, go on.
Then what's the third one?
Then go on.
Speaker 1 (52:17):
It's a it's a least popular podcast.
It's Do Little by the Pixies.
Speaker 3 (52:22):
Ohhhh, it's Do Little .
Speaker 2 (52:25):
So, unpopular and blanked it from my mind.
Speaker 1 (52:30):
There you go bit of.
Speaker 2 (52:32):
Just as for Do Little .
Speaker 1 (52:32):
Let's take this with fans a bit of McCartney and
Goldchat.
Okay, our final is blank spaceversus style.
Talk to me, guy, a specialguest.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
Yeah, this is hard, man, this is um so hard.
This isn't hard, but this isthe beat of this album.
It was always going to be ahard Least.
Semi-final.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
Whatever from the semi-final it was incredibly
hard.
There's so many.
Speaker 4 (52:52):
Was it always going to be these two?
Speaker 3 (52:55):
I don't know no it's not what I expected at all.
Speaker 1 (52:57):
What did you expect at all?
Speaker 3 (53:00):
I expected um shake it off to be here and I, if my
final is Shaking off and welcometo New York.
Yeah, I would go.
I did not expect uh.
Speaker 4 (53:12):
Well, steve, shake it off and welcome to New York.
Are in the third, fourthplayoff.
So which one would win?
Welcome to New York.
Okay, gets the bronze medal.
Shake it off.
Finishes fourth.
Speaker 1 (53:25):
But this, I think, is Dave and Guy's final.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
I think you're both Well, yeah, I think shake it off
was was literally picked.
I mean, I've been, I've beenTying with which one was going
to win out of those two,probably all day and I have to
stress, it's very close to shakeit off and style, but, um,
ultimately with yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:42):
Mine if you're interested.
No, I'm not is, but it wouldhave been out of the woods and
welcome to New York.
I think they're brilliant,absolutely.
I really love out of the woods.
I'm surprised it went out whenit did.
Speaker 2 (53:53):
But yeah, it's going to be.
Can't see the woods for thedream.
It's going to be a difficultone.
Um, yeah, I genuinely, as ofthis moment, I do not know which
one I'm going to pick and Ithink that Well, that's great.
Speaker 1 (54:05):
That's exactly the type of tension we want to build
on.
Steve, talk to me.
Speaker 3 (54:10):
I am genuinely surprised that I've got this far
.
Speaker 1 (54:13):
Wow I like it a lot, less tension.
Speaker 3 (54:16):
Um well, no, I can guess where you're going, I'm
not going to vote, I know.
I do love the chorus.
It's very summery.
But I'm slightly surprised tosee it here Because it's not, I
don't think, even in my top fiveon this album.
Um, so it's got to be blankspace, which is just unassayably
great.
Speaker 1 (54:35):
Our first vote has landed blank space and it is an
absolute banger.
I think this is one of the mostdream songs I've ever heard.
Yes, it's the stonker.
It's no surprise that's got tovote Dave.
Speaker 4 (54:45):
Blank space is the best pop song among these two,
probably the most well produced.
It's the one I could imagineQuincy Jones producing.
Style gives me a warm glow, soI'm going to vote for style.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
Oh, he's made it exciting.
Guy, the as a guest, it isperfectly right that you should
have the deciding vote.
I feel honoured, uh, okay, so.
Speaker 2 (55:12):
Are you full of?
Speaker 1 (55:13):
style, or are you just a blank space?
Speaker 2 (55:16):
Having thought about it and I've actually just been
looking at reminding myself ofsome of the lyrics actually,
because there's a part in blankspace where I genuinely get
goosebumps.
It's when that sort of gangvocal kind of comes in and you
love the game.
It sort of launches into thatsort of post chorus part and uh,
I think there's a trick on thisalbum.
I think you hear on many songswhere there's layers of vocals
(55:37):
and there's gangs and there's alot of this sort of like crowd
vocal sort of sound which I findreally I just love that sound.
It's a really euphoric sound.
Style has it in places as well,and I think, if I'm going to
have to pick, you do.
Speaker 1 (55:51):
Let's help with this podcast.
Speaker 2 (55:53):
I'm going to fill in blank space with the word winner
Because it has won my vote inthis competition.
I think it is the pinnacle ofher being self-referential.
The Americana imagery, theproduction, as Dave said.
I have to second that.
It's like it's insanelybrilliant.
It's blank space, you know.
Speaker 1 (56:15):
It is you listen to that.
Speaker 2 (56:16):
I go back to that demo that you listen to.
On the bonus I know we're notdoing the bonus tracks, but like
there's that version of herplaying it and you can just hear
the excitement of Max Martinhere in the song In the
voicemail though.
Yeah, just going, you can tellhe knows that is that something
special and that she's broughtin at the right time in her
career.
He's been the person to receiveit.
And then they just built on itand made it sonically something
(56:37):
that's just perfection, pop,perfection.
Speaker 5 (57:07):
Hey, hey, I'm going to go down in flames.
This is like an early 2000sNelly track.
Now.
Speaker 1 (57:30):
It wins.
So it's filled in the blankspace on what is the winner of
McCartney Go 1989.
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