Full Moon Fever (Tom Petty)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, welcome to McCartney and Gold.
This is the podcast where wediscuss a beautiful album of
wonderful music.
Put it through its paces in asporting knockout format to see
what is potentially the bestslash.
Our favourite song on the albumWith me are my jolly good
friends, guy.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
That's Blur.
That's four episodes back.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
What was that in reference to?
That's Running Down a Dream.
It's the outro.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Well done, it did sound like Song 2.
Sorry, so yeah, you'reabsolutely right, that's a deep
cut.
Steve, that's a deep cut.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
It's not a deep cut.
Why did he deliver it like itwas Song 2 by Blur?

Speaker 2 (00:36):
He loves that song.
It's his favourite Blur song.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
It's my second favourite song Moving on.
Second favourite song Moving on, moving on moving on.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Don't care how much you push me, I won't.
I will not, I will not backdown.
Those were the original lyrics.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
He had to shorten it to make it poppier.
What are you referencing there,guys?

Speaker 3 (00:57):
I'm just referencing a certain amount of punish that
might be coming up and thatbeing now struck off, just do it
anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Do it anyway, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine, it's
fine, like it.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Right, Brett, could you take us through the Runners
and Riders of the Seamlingsalbum, which it is?

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Thanks for handing over to me, steve.
It is Full Moon Fever.
Full Moon Fever was Tom Petty'sdebut solo album.
It was produced by Jeff Lynnewith Tom Petty and Mike Campbell
.
It features Tom Petty on guitarand vocals, mike Campbell on
lead guitar and Jeff Lynn onbass and backing vocals, phil
Jones on drums, alongside a hostof guest musicians.

(01:32):
It runs to 40 minutes, has 12tracks and 5 singles on it.
It's sold 6 million units.
Them's your runners and riders.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
Seamless, seamless.
Thank you, thank you, it wasseamless.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
thank you, it was seamless good so sorry right
before we, before we crack onguys uh, now, obviously we are
running down a dream today ofranking all the tracks on this
classic album, right, but ifyou're feeling like you've got a
full moon fever, then, fear not, it's all right for now.
If you're so bad, you soon feela lot better as we free fall

(02:07):
through a zombie zoo of tracks.
So sit tight, strap in love,just like.
This podcast is a long road andeven though you're just a face
in the crowd, we're reallydepending on you to stick with
us right till the very end, justlike brett.
It really is non-negotiable.
I simply and I cannot back downon that apart beautiful no, no,

(02:29):
you encouraged him by laughing.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
It got better well, it was funny, I think started
badly, dipped in the middle andwas passable by the end I mean,
have you seen the sourcematerial I've got to work with?
Try making a witty little thedifference between you and now
and our previous uh host, mrDavid Hughes.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
No, no, you are the host, but you just refused to do
the puns.
The guy stepped in.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
Well, all right.
The difference between thosetwo pun masters is that Dave
would work with like three if hecould and then just ignore the
ones he couldn't do.
What I sort of respect slashdetest about what you're doing
is your insistence on doingevery single song.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
I love it.
And before you finish theapartment song I've finished.
Try fitting that one in.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
You've done a great job, guy.
With the puns I knew you'dhandle with care.
You won me over, thank you.
Tangential puns, that's what welike to care.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
You won me over, thank you.
Tangential puns, that's what welike oh yeah, that's a deep.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
That's another deep cut pun deep cut pun love it.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
That's one for the big fans well, I'm sure there'll
be some Wilbury chat as we goalong.
Right, let's get straight intothis then.
So the first qualifier, gents,is your against.
All Right for now.

Speaker 4 (03:49):
My sister got lucky, married a yuppie, took him for
all he was worth.
Now she's a swinger Dating asinger.
I can't decide which is worse,but not me, baby.

(04:10):
I've got you to save me.
Oh, you're so bad.
Best thing I ever had, littleworld.
Good night, baby.

(04:44):
Sleep tight, my love.
May God watch over you fromabove Tomorrow.
I'm working.
What would I do?
I'd be lost and lonely if notfor you.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
Nice opener.
I'm going to take you back,steve, to Birmingham 1987, not
Birmingham Alabama.
No, nothing.
Sexy and cool like deep SouthAmerica, birmingham, brummie,
birmingham, uk.
Bob Dylan's playing.
He's back in band at Tom Pettyand the Heartbreakers seeing.
Cool like South.
Deep South America, birmingham,brummie, birmingham, uk.
Bob Dylan's playing.
He's back in band at Tom Pettyand the Heartbreakers.
Yes, backstage in walk, jeffLynn and George Harrison have a

(05:34):
good old laugh.
They have a very nice time.
And then the tour goes down toLondon and they continue down
there and Jeff Lynn and GeorgeHarrison turn and george
harrison turn up again and likethey kind of make this tiny
burgeoning friendship.
And at that meeting I thinkit's tom petty's birthday in
october as well, and he had abirthday and a birthday cake and
jeff lynn gave him a copy ofcloud nine, the album he's
producing for george harrisonand jeff um.

(05:56):
And you know just I give it alisten and tom petty loves it.
He listens to it all month, um,and he's listened to it.
He's got some friends over onthanksgiving day.
About a month later he'splaying it to them and all of a
sudden, guess what he?
He needs to go out and buychocolate no, a baseball mitt.
So for some reason, onthanksgiving, tom fett decides

(06:18):
he wants to play baseball.
So he goes out, drives down towhere you're buying that in
birmingham no, he couldn't havebought it, but he's back.
He's Birmingham, he's back inAmerica by now.

Speaker 4 (06:27):
He's a bump floater.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
He didn't love Birmingham so much that he
stayed there a month after thetour finished, strangely.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
So he's driving to the shop Baseball mitt shop,
Baseball mitt shop.
And who does he run into?
Jeff Lynn?
Of course he does.
And who does he run into JeffLynn?
Of course he does.
And he says oh man, Jeff, I'mreally loving this album.
Do you want to come over andwork on a song I'm thinking
about writing?
So Jeff says, of course, andthat's where we start here.

(06:56):
The first song they work on isYou're so Bad.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
It's not just that they bump into each other.
I think they pull up cars nextto each other in just some
random bit of LA.
I think they pull up cars nextto each other in just some
random bit of LA.
Yeah, and I think he's shouting.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
Tom, tom.
I can't remember who he'sshouting at.
No, it's Tom Petty.
He can't believe it becausehe's like this is mad.
I've been dancing this albumall month.
I've listened to it today.
I've just popped out onThanksgiving to get a baseball
mitt Super random and I'vebumped into Jeff Lynne.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
Yeah, it's a song, let's make some tracks.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
Well, I think he's tentative here.
I think it's tentative.
I think it's tentative.
It's just he's like oh man, doyou want to come over and work
on a track?
And the first one they work onis You're so Bad, which is great
, and I love it.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yeah, yeah, I mean there's a lot of stories around
this album.
We'll get into them as we go.
It is as so many albums we havedone recently.
We've had a bit of a run ofdoing albums where the producer
really really shapes it.
And I do understand that ifyou're not as muso as us,
producer chat can be incrediblyboring.

(07:55):
But when you've got basicallysomeone who is not part of the
band or isn't the artistthemselves, who is captaining
the ship on all fronts, theyreally can shape how it sounds
and deep fucking balls.
Does this sound like a jefflynn album?
Yeah, it couldn't sound anymore jeff lynn if it tried.
You know, if you listen to thatgeorge harrison album and the

(08:15):
traveling will be, and thisalbum, which are all recorded by
jeff lynn around this time you,you could.
You could swap out all thetracks and feel like you were
listening to the same piece ofwork.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
I mean, jeff Lynne is in an absolute role, isn't he
at this point?

Speaker 4 (08:28):
in time.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
Guy, I mean just a shame you've got nothing really
to say about producing.
Obviously it's not somethingyou well.

Speaker 3 (08:37):
I don't ok, so I came to this album.
I don't know much.
Tom Petty is the truth.
I know the hits and when asmuch to Steve's annoyance when I
had to keep asking him toremind me what the album was we
were doing.
That shows you how much of aTom Petty aficionado?

Speaker 2 (08:51):
I am, yes, but obviously the joke is you are a
producer, so this is a perfectalbum for you.
I'm getting to it.
I'm really interested to seewhat you've thought about it.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
The one thing about Jeff Jeff Lynn is everything he
touches sounds like the samerecord.
Right, that's what you'realluding to.
They're sort of the stodgy,stompy acoustic guitars.
Everything sounds like it'sfrom 1960s in some respect.
There's a lot of Beatles.
There's a lot of throwback.
Beatles yeah, uh, I.
It's weird.
I started doing my notes onthis album, going through it,

(09:19):
and I kept writing down oh, itsounds a bit like, it sounds a
bit like Jeff Lynn or it soundsa bit like Bob Dinner, it sounds
a bit like that.
And then obviously I looked atthe year it came out.
I can't remember when thetraveling wilburys came out,
whether it was early 90s or itwas around this time but it's
not long after this.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
This is all them coalescing together, together,
and that will get.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
Yeah, it gets the chronology of it.

Speaker 3 (09:37):
It's interesting I love, I I genuinely like.
I think this is.
This is the perfect amount ofJeff Lynn-ness that I can
tolerate.
I don't think it has as much ashe adds to Travelling, wilburys
and other things I've heard ofhis obviously the ELO stuff.
It feels a little bit more deft, a little bit more light in
places, but it is no doubt thereand it is on some of Tom

(09:59):
Petty's what must be his biggestsongs, right.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
He doesn't do rough edges.
Our jeff um, no at all.
I mean he.
He could take, you know, themost jagged thing that you've
got.
This is this metaphor is goingnowhere, folks.
He could take a very jaggedthing and make it very smooth.
Let's move on that.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
That was that is beautiful.
That is well, I can again.
I can tell you're an english, Ican tell guys producer and tell
you, I am, but I like that guy.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
I like that a producer.
I can tell you're an Englishteacher.
I am the metaphor guy.

Speaker 3 (10:25):
I like that, I like.
That's what I want the studioto be.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
Obviously, you can capture an energy and a sound
and a performance but at thesame time, you can also use it
to get the perfect thing, andyou can do it again and again,
and you can round edges if youwant to and you can make it of
of you and what you do, becausehe really, jeff lin, really
loves polishing stuff, he reallyloves doing the whole overdub

(10:47):
way of making an album.
Um, which was new to them.
It was new to them.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
They hadn't done that before.
Well, you say they, I mean they, they mostly aren't there no,
okay, sorry, yeah, I'm assumingknowledge.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah, the heart, tom petty and the heartbreakers had
done most of their albums withlive takes.
They were a rock and roll bandand they went in, they tracked
it live in the studio.
But, um, obviously Tom Pettygets an itch, doesn't he?
And he wants to do somethingdifferent.
And Jeff Lynn's kind of theperfect guy to do it with,
because he's, yeah, he, he, heloves really making sure

(11:21):
everything's perfect and andworking on the nuances of the
song and the delivery, which iswhich is what guy does.
You know, guy has got anamazing ear for doing a vocal
take and just go, yeah, just dothat, just.
And and petty talks about jefflynn doing that as well just
saying, oh no, you didn't do iton that take before you, you
went down there, you need tokeep it going up, or whatever.

(11:41):
Just these tiny things that youdon't even notice when you're
singing but you have to be inthat you.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
You know I I love this album spoiler, but but it's
as much you know, if I were tolisten to this album, I would
have to not listen to to ajefflyn album for about a week
afterwards to sort of get thethe saccharine sweet production
out of my system, you know, I'dhave to go and listen to blind
faith or something deeplyunderproduced, I mean right, but

(12:06):
was was petty stuff?

Speaker 3 (12:07):
was it really that much rurer?
I mean, I don't, I mean, I'mnot.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
Yes, yes, this is, this is like and the
heartbreakers fucking hated it.
They hated this and we'll getinto that, um, but yes, I mean
his stuff was.
This was like, so polished andexactly as brett said.
You know, he's got a rock androll band.
It's very much the same setupas Bruce Springsteen and the E
Street Band which is that you'vegot this band around, but
there's clearly a band leader.

(12:30):
But they were a rock and rollband who played rock and roll.
I mean, there's one track ontheir most famous album, damn
the Torpedoes at least theirmost famous first album, I think
it was Refugee, and they didlike 50 takes of it to get the
perfect take, because it would.
It didn't occur to anyone thatthey could overdub anything and

(12:52):
so they just kept recording itas a band live in the studio
until they got the perfect take,um, and and so here it's, like
you know, suddenly jeff lynn'sin and he's like, oh, I think,
do you know, I don't, I'll justmake this on my own, and it sort
of becomes this solo projectand we'll get again.
We'll get into that.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
But let's, let's get back to this.
Let's vote.
Yeah, there is a lot to talkabout and we, we, we've got a
lot to get through, okay.
So I mean, for me it's so easy,um, you're so bad is like one
of my favorite Tom Petty songs,or Tom Petty and the Hot Rigs.
It's great, I love it.

Speaker 4 (13:19):
I think it's the first song I ever yeah, I
fucking love it.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
You, you really.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yes, I love it I love it, I mean it's obviously gotta
go through here what's it allright for now.
It's one of the most beautifulsparkling oh not un jeff lind on
this album okay.

Speaker 3 (13:35):
Well, if it's again, if it's up against, all right
for now, it's definitely you'reso bad.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
That's my boy yes, what are you talking about?

Speaker 3 (13:42):
that is the better song that is the gcse lyric song
that I've written down in mynotes it's what is all right for
now.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
Yeah, I've got a lullaby, a nice lullaby but it's
a little gcse wordplay.

Speaker 3 (13:55):
That's what I'm okay.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
So my counter to that would be that you're you're so
bad.
Is is the most dated thing onthe album because it references
yuppies.
It makes the whole album'sdated.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
It's all like the whole album.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yeah, don't, don't pull at that thread, steve no no
, I'm talking lyrically dated.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
It's the only lyric on the album that dates it is
it's an amazing to hear the wordyuppie.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
I mean it's the most yeah dated reference you could
what does yuppie it's for youngany young people listening, I'm
sure there's lots um.
What does yuppie stand for?
Steve?

Speaker 1 (14:24):
young and upwardly mobile.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
Yeah, I've always thought it's young and upwardly
mobile, so shouldn't it be yumpy?

Speaker 1 (14:30):
yumpy.
Yes, it should, I don't knowreally I mean the 80s missed the
trick there with theirfilofaxes maybe it's young
upward person and I'vemisremembered it, but anyway,
I'm clearly voting for all rightfor now.
I think it's absolutelybeautiful, um, and I also think
that that, as I said before,it's the the least, and I don't
I do like jeff lynn's production.
It just gets very, very, verywell, he didn't produce this.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
He didn't produce his one song, he didn't really.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
He wasn't there for oh, there you go.
That's probably why I like itso much.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
Yeah, there we go yeah, I thought you knew that's
amazing was the first thing thatwas produced for the album or
the first song they worked on,and then All Right For Now was
one of the last things theyadded.
Right, I didn't completelyexplain as well.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
on that, then, I think you're both absolutely mad
going for your so bad, althoughI do like it.
I just like All Right, for Nowmore.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
What it does foreshadow is Wildflowers a bit,
doesn't you think?

Speaker 1 (15:23):
It does, it does, and what is Wildflowers, steve for?
context, wildflowers is hissecond solo album.
So basically the chronologyhere is Full Moon Fever happens,
pisses off the Heartbreakersreally badly.
Then Jeff Lynne comes andproduces the next Tom Petty and

(15:43):
the Heartbreakers album, whichis a little bit awkward.
And then a certain producerthat we've talked about a lot,
called Mr Rick Rubin, comes inand records Wildflowers, which
is a stunning piece of work butsounds exactly like a Rick Rubin
album, which is to say itdoesn't have synthesizers, it
doesn't have all the polish thatthis have.
It's not a great big saccharinefest, it's.
You know.
Yeah, tom, sit down, have anacoustic guitar, we'll record

(16:05):
you live.
You know, if there's cracks andpops in the air, we'll keep
them, and it's the completeopposite approach.
And and basically the threealbums that always win every
single tom petty and theheartbreakers or tom petty list
are damn the torpedoes, which isthe heartbreakers, one full
moon fever and wildflowers,which must have again pissed the
heartbreakers off.
Something chronic, yeah, um,and and because it's their debut

(16:29):
.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
And then, yes, no, it's not their debut, it's about
three or four albums in it butit's very much that's considered
this early one of the early bigclassic yeah

Speaker 1 (16:37):
um but I mean the two that come out top and all polls
are wildflowers, which is kindof the connoisseur's choice, and
and full moon fever, which isthe sort of fan's choice, and uh
, yeah anyway.
But ironically the thing thatrick rubin got that got rick
rubin into um, tom petty waslistening to full moon full moon
, so yeah, full circle, fullcircle, right.
The next qualifier is facing thecrowd versus the one and only

(16:58):
cover on the album, which isfeel a whole lot better, which
was a birds tune before all ofthis ever went down.

Speaker 4 (17:27):
In another place, another town.
You were a judge, a face in thecrowd.
You were just Facing the crowdOut in the street Walking around

(18:01):
, the reason why, oh, I can sayI have to let you go, baby, and
run away.
After what you did, I can stayon and I'll probably feel a

(18:27):
whole lot better when you'regone.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
Well, it's got to be Facing the Crowd, because I mean
, the cover of the Bird's Tuneis like literally almost like
the original.
It's not much.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
It's almost identical .

Speaker 2 (18:43):
Yeah, so why did he have to do a cover?
Or did he choose to?

Speaker 1 (18:49):
well, I'm gonna.
I mean it sounds like you mightknow something, I don't, but I
mean he was a huge birds fan, umhuge huge, huge roger mcguinn
fan, huge 12th stringrickenbacker fan I mean, that's
one of the things that needs tobe said is, however polished and
80s sounding this album is,it's also a sort of love letter
to rock classicism.
Uh, not least because it hasthis 12 string birds style

(19:13):
rickenbacker all over it, and asmuch as I um always vote
against covers, I'm going toplay against type and go early
here and vote for feel a wholelot better.
What?
Because I think in some ways.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
It's the whole, the whole brand you've built for
yourself yes, it's ruined itover 50 episodes, yeah, of the
last couple of episodes.
You're absolutelydeconstructing it.
I mean it's amazing, it's thisis.
This is your this is your bowietin machine this is my new
direction all of these tropesyou've built around yourself the
wonderwall syndrome.

(19:46):
Yeah yeah I mean you're doingall of it this is my new.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
This is my new direction.
Don't question me.
I'm having a midlife crisis.
Just you're gonna start going.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
I don't care about the lyrics, it's just all about
the tune.
You can sing the most banalshit ever, and it can contradict
something, I don't care.
No, I don't.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
I just want a nice tune I can sing along with.
No, I think phil holowetta isin some ways sort of the heart
and soul of the album, becauseit it signposts who he is,
because he's such a fan of thatmusic.
The close harmony, singing therickenbackers yeah, the, the,
the songs, the, the 60s, all ofit.
And when I say the songs thatsounds very general, but you
know those sorts of beautifulthree minutes, the music.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
You said the music, couldn't you?

Speaker 1 (20:23):
yeah, no, I meant those beautiful three minutes
sort of 60s constructive popsongs, don't try and throw me
off, you fucker um I'm gonna gofeel a whole lot better, which
is, again very rare for me, butI think.
I think it's the.
It's the perfect cover, eventhough it's almost identical to
the original.
I know that's against type, butI'm going with it anyway wow
right, what are you going for?

Speaker 2 (20:41):
I am going to go for A Face in the Crowd because, for
some bizarre reason, steve andI have done some kind of really
crappy body swap film where I'vesuddenly taken on his opinion.
I mean, what's the point inthis cover?
What is the point in it?
I get all of those referencepoints.
I totally get what you'resaying, but it's just like the
original.
It's really nice to listen to.
But when I listen to theoriginal it's like, oh, I might

(21:02):
as well just listened to thebirds then yeah, it's true, I
mean roger.
Roger mcguinn of the birds.
When he first heard americangirl uh yeah, by tom hank he
said, oh, when did I record thatthen?
Yeah the influences are soclear and it's really
interesting listen to the earlyheartbreaker stuff you can hear.
There's two, there's three biginfluences there's mcgu, there's

(21:24):
Dylan and there's the RollingStones as well.
A bit 100%.
And you can really hear itclearly, and by this point you
can't hear it as clearly, soit's interesting.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
No, and I think a lot more that that's.
One of the strangest thingsabout Tom Pate and the
Heartbreakers is that when theycame out they got roped in with
the New Wave movement, which wascompletely was completely.
You know, they got roped in withtalking heads and the cbgb
crowd yeah, which is, which isodd because looking back on it
you can't see that through lineat all, because they sound like
a sort of classic rock band andeven when you go back and listen

(21:54):
to the early stuff they soundlike a classic rock band.
But they had, they had that rawsort of post-punk energy.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
Yeah, yeah, they did, uh, and that.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
That's what sort of aligned them in people's minds
to that particular movement.
But when you get to Full MoonFever, all of that gets chucked
out of the window, and then whathappens is retrospectively.
A lot of people, me included,bought Full Moon Fever in 89 as
their first Tom Petty record,and then, when they get back
into older Tom Petty, all theyhear is the rock classicism and
they miss the punky spiritbecause they weren't there at

(22:23):
the time, which is exactlyexactly what I did.
But this, yeah, this, this,this changed the direction,
however, suddenly, guy, what areyou voting for?

Speaker 2 (22:31):
you've got the decider yeah, well for me.

Speaker 3 (22:34):
Uh, I actually on every single song on this record
.
I'll try and do this concisely,but the fact of the matter is
I've got a reference before I.
I didn't know anything aboutthis album when I came to it.
I listened to for the firstwhat I've really enjoyed about
this episode is I've?
Never heard this album beforeoh, never heard any what you've
heard, obviously I've heard thehits, obviously, but I don't
really have a a timeline of wheneach of his hits came out.

(22:56):
I don't know where they fit.
I don't know the productionbehind it and all that sort of
stuff, um, and every single songI wrote down.
I've got a song.
Well, it sounds a bit like this, uh, and that was really.
It was really fascinating andunder the feel a lot whole
better.
I thought, bloody hell, theremust be a lawsuit in this,
because it sounds really closeto like I don't know, like a
bird's thing or like if I neededsomeone with beetles, it's like
and then look up the note.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
What happens to your research?

Speaker 3 (23:19):
it's a bloody bird song, yeah well, I did that, I
looked it up, didn't I?

Speaker 2 (23:22):
I thought, oh, but yeah, but the fact of the matter
, is it sounded?

Speaker 3 (23:26):
it really sounded at home on the record, uh, and what
I love about tom petty and whatI think about this album in now
, having heard it for the firsttime all the way through, is
that this is the kind ofproduction and sound that really
suits him.
I think that's why,commercially, it's been a
success in my opinion.
Yeah, yeah, um, and as a resultfeel a whole lot better, is my
choice, because I think it just,it just sounds right, it kind

(23:47):
of clicks with him and it, itseems valid, whereas I mean a
face in the crowd's.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
Nice, I do think it sounds it's nice in that, but
it's not as exciting as much onthe album.

Speaker 3 (23:57):
Well, it's it's.
It feels really modern.
It feels I mean it feels ratherelo.
It has that slightly sloweddown, woozy tempo thing going on
with it where it just feelsslightly undercooked, but it
does sound like a very modernrecord.
But I think it sounds a bit forme after especially the three
songs that come before it.
It feels a little bit flatterthan those and I feel it quite

(24:23):
heavily at that position in thetrack.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
So it's a phase in the crowd that sticks out for
you.

Speaker 3 (24:27):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Lovely stuff, Lovely stuff.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
You can't see this at home, but Steve is shaking his
head too.

Speaker 3 (24:33):
Yeah of course he is Absolute disgrace.
So yeah, you can't believewe're in for a joke.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
It wasn't disgrace, it was more just sort of pained
acceptance Right.
So I feel a whole lot bettergoes through Thanks to my
amusement Right.

Speaker 4 (24:55):
So next up is A Mind With A Heart Of Its Own.
Ho, ho, and, depending On you,I remember her standing In the
tall grass and cattails Awayfrom the windows At the end of
the day, watched the man fromthe landing With his hall hats
and coattails.
She never looked different.
But something would change.
A mind with a heart of its own.

(25:18):
A mind with a heart of its own,yeah, a mind with a heart of
its own.
I ain't never gonna let youdown.
All you gotta do is trust me.

(25:41):
I would never make you someclown, baby.
Why won't you trust me?
You give up so easily.
I don't know why.
You can't see.

Speaker 3 (26:00):
I, depending on you, don't let me down, guy.
Well, both these songs comefrom the back end of this record
, right?
Yeah, yes, skyhead.
Well, both these songs comefrom the back end of this record
, right, yeah?
And are we both?
Both, all three?

Speaker 1 (26:17):
I should say in agreement that this album is a
little top heavy quality wiseI'd go much further than that,
as do all the reviews of it,which is to say that it's an
utterly classic album until thefinal two tracks, and then you
go what I don't know.

Speaker 3 (26:30):
I I think I when I was doing my notes it was like
every song that the first halfhas kind of got lots of little
ideas and then towards the endthey just become a little bit
bit linear for me and these twosongs kind of suffer from, uh,
from that vibe for me, uh.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
So well, the a mind with heart of its own.
He was driving over to thestudio, so let me set the scene
for you, steve and guy, um tompetty meets jeff lynn looking
for the baseball mitt, as you doon thanksgiving, yeah, and
they're like, oh, let's they.
They work on yes about at hishouse and they the next day they
work on another song whichwe'll get to later.
It's pretty fucking big.

(27:09):
Like within 24 hours they'vewritten two really fucking good
songs and they need somewhere torecord and they decide to
record where.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
Oh, mike Campbell's home studio, I think, and Mike.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
Campbell's home studio, so he's got a garage
studio.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
So this is Mike Campbell, the guitarist in the
Heartbreakers the guitarist inthe Heartbreakers.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
So Tom Petty is looking to do a solo album.
He's been thinking about it fora while but he needs somewhere
to record.
So he asked Mike Campbell touse his garage.
So he's driving over thereevery day to use it and as a
result, mike Campbell's on everytrack on this album, which

(27:48):
cannot be said for the otherthree members of the
Heartbreakers.
But on the way over to thestudio one day both he and Jeff
Lynn, driving over separately,were listening to the radio and
they were listening to a ConnieFrancis song called my Heart has
a Mind of Its Own and Tom Pettywanted to switch that up and
then he just wrote A Mind of ItsOwn as a result of listening to

(28:09):
that.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
I mean it sounds great.
I didn't mean it sounds great.
Doesn't make it any less crap,hey I.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
I can't control the, the quality output from the end
of the anecdote.
I mean I mean you can see thejoins.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
I mean literally.
I didn't know that story at all, and yet I know that at some
point somebody went oh, you knowthat phrase, why don't we swap
that to them?
That'd be really interesting.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
That's that shit christ yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
No, it's really, really tedious concept.
It's like I need an idea or asong.
I've had an idea.
I will now labor it over thenext three and a half minutes
thanks, tom so depending on youis great.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Well, yeah, yeah, depending on you is great this
is a wonderful album that tailsoff very badly.

Speaker 3 (28:56):
Those final two tracks I'm gonna vote for a mind
with with a heart of its own,because for me, it picks up the
energy much neededly.
I mean yes it, yes, it soundslike the rolling stones, but you
know, as my notes uh clearlystate here, uh, but uh, and also
as it has the lowest streams onSpotify, but I like that does
it of the whole album yeah, yeah, yeah, massive about a couple

(29:17):
of million, which really Ithought was a bit of a
disservice to the energy of thetune.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yeah, yeah no, I like it.
It does pick up the energy abit.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
I don't think it's a Stones thing.
I think I think it's a stonesthing I think.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
I think it's like it's a bow diddly thing.
Yeah, okay, I think it's thenot, it's the not fade away
thing, isn't it?

Speaker 1 (29:35):
it's yeah and I and I think that, um, you know,
that's so, as I say I'm italways takes me back when I
listen to this album how, howmany of the tracks are, because
I mean, basically there isanother straight pastiche of
another artist that's coming up,yeah, and that really works.
This is a straight pastiche ofBo Diddley.
That doesn't.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
In my opinion, but I like it more than depending on
you.
Yeah, fair enough.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
I'm voting for, depending on you, not least
because I think my method of itsounds crap, but also depending
on you has a brilliant anotherbrilliant Rickenbacker 12-string
run in it, which I just it,just he really does.
The Roger McGuinn 12-stringjangly bird thing, so well.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
I mean it does, yeah, and you've got the hots for a
12-string, haven't you?
Let's be honest, Steve.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
I've always had the hots for it.
I get a massive bonus for ajangly 12-string, so yes,
Brilliant.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
I am voting for, depending on you, of course you
are.
Of course, sam, just because Idon't want to hear you talk
about getting bonus for 12stream one so you'll have to
hear that again oh for fuck'ssake, yeah right luckily, uh,
mine with the heart of its own,has gone out.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
Thank you, jesus.
Uh, right, and finally, zombiezoo versus the apartment song.

Speaker 4 (30:48):
Hey, little freak with the lunch pail purse
Underneath the paint, you'rejust a little girl Dancing at
the zombie zoo.
Dancing at the zombie zoo.
I used to live in a two-roomapartment, neighbors knocking on

(31:13):
my wall.
Times were hard.
I don't want to knock it.
I don't miss it much at all.
Oh yeah, I'm alright.
I just feel a little lonelytonight.
I'm okay most of the time, Ijust feel a little lonely
tonight.
Well, there we go.
So you're talking about thearse.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Most of the time, I just feel alone.
Well, there we go.
So you're talking about thearse.
End of the album is what Ithink you're terming it as Then.
Zombie Zoo is the last song onthe album, and even Tom Petty
was like.
He said what the fuck, was Ithinking there?
It's a really good album tillZombie Zoo.
It's kind of weird, isn't it?

Speaker 1 (31:50):
He said I hate that song.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
What sort of mentality creates a song like
that was is the quote I mean?
I mean basically to, to put itin context, this album is just
like.
It's just a vibe thing thathappens.
He bumps into jeffrey and heknows he wants to do a solo
album.
He's had up to what?
12 years with the heartbreakers.
At this point, um, I kind of.
He says at the end of um, thetour for the previous album, he
says to to mike campbell in aphone call I think we're done,

(32:21):
and then he retracts that.
But basically the seeds of allof this happening for the next
10 years for the heartbreakersand tom petty is set there that
he, I think he'd got to thepoint where everyone else in the
band refused to do overdubbing,like especially the drummer, um
and the keyboard player.
They didn't really want to playit live and I think he got to

(32:43):
the point.
It's like we, we kind of needto be able to do this.
This is what bands do.
It is going to give us adifferent option and a different
place to go.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
It's a bit more mixed than that.
So, basically, stan Lynch, thedrummer, this was very much the
beginning of the end for him,because he just wasn't invited,
he didn't get to do anything onit and then really, really
objected to playing these songson tour yeah, he said it's like
we're in a cover band.
I'm not in a cover band.

(33:12):
It's like I don't want to playFree Falling and I won't back
down.
Those are Tom Petty songs.
We're Tom Petty and theHeartbreakers what the fuck yeah
, which is such a complicateddistinction.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
If they could have been called the Heartbreakers,
and that would be so much easier.
But they are, tom Petty why,are they, tom Petty, and was it
a publishing thing?

Speaker 1 (33:30):
no, when they came out of Florida.
Basically he was in Mud Crutch.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
Ok, steve imagine, guy and I don't have an
encyclopedic knowledge of TomPetty and of course we have.
We've done the research, we'vedone the research.
We're very good.
Give us a 60 second introhistory potted history, make it
entertaining of Tom Petty.
You've got 60 seconds.
Tom Petty grows up got 60seconds.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
Tom Petty Grows up in Gainesville, florida, nice, and
he's a rock and roll dude.
He forms a band calledMudcrutch.
They do really well.
They're incredibly big, despitetheir utterly stupid name,
that's a true funny name.
They create a local festivalwhich becomes the biggest thing
Gainesville has ever seen andeveryone comes to it.
They sign a record deal andthen record a demo and then the
record company say we kind ofjust want you, tom, and he goes.

(34:14):
Oh shit uh, and so the bandbreak embarrassing it's just tom
petty and then a couple of mudcrutch members, including mike
campbell, go off and do otherthings and sort of form a band
and they're mucking around andtom petty sort of hangs out with
them one day and they're doinglike a session on some other
thing and he's like.
He's like shit.
These guys are incredible.
I'm gonna have to have them asmy backing band and he sort of
says, look, do you want to?

Speaker 2 (34:34):
come and be my band.
And then they are so it's, it's, it's.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
It becomes tom petty and the heartbreakers, and and
that's it.
So it's very much, as I say,bruce bringstein, the street
band, which is.
They are a band, they have anidentity as a band.
They all do have some say inthe matter.
They're not just hired handsbut it's tom petty's thing
brilliant, and that was a minuteexactly superb, well done
awesome job.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
Okay, we're up to.
We're up to.
Obviously, guy, I knew all thatwe watched the four-hour
documentary I love my crutchwatch it twice.
Good eight hours.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
That was um but the, but the yes, so the.
So the thing here is that youknow stan lynch's point would be
you know, when we record, werecord as the heartbreaker.
So yes, tom Petty calls theshots, but that drum part was
because I brought that drum partto the table.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
That piano part was because Ben Montage brought that
to the table.
Tench hates this.
He comes down and plays, but hehates it.
He's like I fucking hated it.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
And then Howie the bassist, howie Epstein, comes
down and plays on free-fallingof all things, and then he's
outside smoking and Tom Pettycomes out and goes what's the
matter?
You're in a really bad mood.
He's like I just don't likethis song.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
He could pick a hit.
He could pick a hit.
That's why he's the bass player.
Yeah, brilliant, brilliant,picks up his bag and leaves and
he's like that was their wholeattitude, but they all said they
didn't like the songs and theywere just all pissed off to fuck
with me.
Uh, very interesting time forhim.
Well, it's weird.
I mean it's weird.
Petty wants to do a solo albumbut he accidentally asked mike
campbell to use his studio.
So mike campbell's going to beinvolved, so, and mike

(36:05):
campbell's an amazing guitarist,so it's great he did.
But it's kind of like did youwant to do a solo album or did
you want to kind of put a stakethrough the heart of the band by
going I'll have you, but youthree, no thanks.
I don't think that happens.
I think he did kind of ask themand I think stan lynch really
doesn't do over over double.
He just really was like buttingheads with petty on that, like

(36:27):
no, I don't want to do thisoption.
I think it was like almost aphilosophical divide at that
point which takes about sixyears to play out and for then
eventually Stan Lynch to getfired.
There are three sides to everystory, aren't there?
I mean, you've got Lynch's side, petty's side and then probably
a bit in between I don't, itmust be so hard to be in a band,

(36:47):
right.
And then you're like right, andthen you're like oh yeah, tom's
doing some songs.
Jeff, jeff lynn, oh right, okay, and mike's mike's place, oh
when are we?

Speaker 1 (36:57):
going over nothing's happening.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
I mean, yeah, no yeah , oh, it's really hard but
that's that to be fair.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
That is exactly.
I know I keep referencing.
But that's exactly the same asthe street band as well, because
with with, uh, brucespringsteen, he's the boss, but
then there's a second boss,which is which is little steve
van zandt, who is who is likethe next next in command, and
then you've got the rest of theband.
Same with the heartbreakers.
You've got tom petty, and thenyou've got mike campbell, who's
like the secondary boss next incommand, and then you've got the

(37:23):
rest of the band yeah and andso it's.
It's complicated stuff, right?
What are we voting for?

Speaker 2 (37:28):
oh, go on then sorry, sorry brett, no, it just it
just made me think of the otherband that I've done.
I've stayed together forever.
I've been incredibly successful, but I've done side projects
successfully as radiohead and Ican only imagine radiohead
setting up a very consciousemail chain.
To go by the way, guys, colin,um yeah, johnny and I are
thinking of doing a side projectcalled the smile.

(37:49):
Are you okay with that?
Is that all right?
And I can just imagine themdoing this just perfectly.
I think they've learned all thelessons that band have
Everything that's gone wrong inrock and roll previously.
People just not thinking thingsthrough.
I just think Petty didn'treally think it through because
probably he didn't think I'llbump into Jeff Lynn and record
probably my best work ever intwo weeks.

Speaker 1 (38:07):
Yeah, Certainly one of the most successful.
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
Yeah, it's just the way it went.
I mean, you know, yeah, it wasalways going to be contentious.
Yeah, right, what are we votingfor?
Zombie Zoo versus the ApartmentSong?

Speaker 2 (38:19):
It's obvious, isn't it?
It's the Apartment Song, ofcourse it is.
By the way, roy Orbison sangbacking vocals on Zombie Zoo.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
Oh, dear Lord.
Okay, well, this is this.
Is it the traveling wilburysare beginning to coalesce now
and come together?
Yes, it doesn't really matter.

Speaker 3 (38:34):
But I mean, I like, I mean for honestly, for a minute
, I quite like the intro tozombie zoo.
It sounds like a haunted housething.
But then I mean, out of thesetwo, the apartment song gets it
for me.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
Yeah it's because zombie zoos are to shit yeah,
it's, it's not great.

Speaker 3 (38:50):
It's not great, it's not good, it's not good.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
To be fair, it doesn't even have the grace to
be bad.
It would be better if I couldbe offended by how bad it was.
It was.
It's the.
It's badness mostly comes fromhow weak it is compared to this
utterly classic album thatprecedes it, rather than it just
being bad exactly and again youcan hear the joins.
It's literally, literally whathappened.
It's like you know him and jefflinda like oh, there's a
nightclub, it's called thezombie zoo.

(39:12):
Oh, look at all the like youknow, literally, they see it.
And it's like in la and they'relike oh, look at all the young
people, they look like theliving dead because they're all
on drugs.
Let's write a song about that Idon't want to hear it though I
don't.
I don't need to fucking hearthat song, because why do I need
to hear that song?
I don't.
That's a it's.
I can hear you having the ideagoing oh, I've got studio time,

(39:33):
but what should we write about?
Look over there, brilliant.
Let's swap mind and heartaround.
That's a good plan.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
No wow so you're like really, really happy up until
track 10, and then you get realpissed off, I don't.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
It's just.
It's just a very weak way toend an utterly classic album and
again totally the era of the CD.
It's like you know, let's fillup every minute we've got and
end it with Zombie, fucking Zoo.
What are you?

Speaker 2 (39:59):
thinking.
I'm going to tell you who youcan blame in the quarterfinals.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
Right, here we are in the quarterfinals.
It's very exciting.
You can tell by the tone of myvoice.
So our first quarterfinal isYou're so Bad versus.
For the first time, a song youmay have heard on your radio
called I Won't Back Down.

Speaker 4 (40:26):
You to save me.
Oh, you're so bad.
Best thing I ever had Littleworld.
Well, I won't back down.

(40:49):
No, I won't back down.
No, I won't back down.
You can stand me up at thegates of hell, but I won't back
down.
No, I stand my ground.
Very easy for me.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
Very easy for me there's so many fucking great
songs on this album.

Speaker 4 (41:11):
It's just ridiculously good have you seen
the video?

Speaker 2 (41:14):
yeah, and who's on the drums in the video?

Speaker 1 (41:16):
if I won't back down, it's ringo star on the drums
yeah, and it's jefflin andgeorge harrison singing backing
vocals and mike campbell off tothe side, so he's literally got
two beatles in the video.
It's like, okay, yes, we get it.
You've arrived in the rockroyalty at this point.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
It's amazing.
So there's the TravellingWilburys.
So you look at the chronologyof this album and you think, oh,
yeah, okay.
So this album was released in1989 and the Wilburys were
released in 88.
So they must have all met.
You know the Wilburys.
And then you know, jeff Lynneand Tom Petty went off to do
this album no.
And then you know, jeff Lynneand Tom Petty weren't offered to
do this album no, it did nothappen like that.

(41:53):
What happens is can I tell thestory?
Please do the way GeorgeHarrison tells it.
So, basically, george Harrisonis working on Cloud Nine with
Jeff Lynne.
It's a massive success, greatcomeback for him.
And the record label go oh, weneed what George Harrison terms
as a C-side, we need a C-side.
We've got the b-sides, we needa c-side for some single release

(42:15):
in europe where we need anextra track.
Because you know, it's allextended issues and he didn't
have an extended version ofsomething.
So he had to go into the studioto record something and, um,
you know, being the chill dudethat george harrison is he just
says, yeah, I'll get around toit.
And he goes out for dinner withjefflyn and roy albertson and
says, oh, and jefflyn's whatwe're up to tomorrow.
So I need to, um, I need towrite and record a song for this

(42:37):
seaside.
This is I just, you know, knocksomething out.
So he hasn't written anythingand jeff said, oh, come along.
Yeah, great.
And he said, um, so where areyou recording?
It's like I haven't sorted outyet.
He's like, oh, okay, um, so, uh, I know an engineer, he'll be,
he'll be, he might be available,we can ask him.
And george phones up and yes,he's available to record george

(43:00):
hamilton.
Um, and it's like okay, we needa studio.
Um, I'll tell you what I'llphone my friend, bob.
So he phones up bob dylanbecause he knows bob's got a
garage studio and he's.
And he says it's amazing,because sometimes you can phone
bob dylan, he doesn't pick upfor three years.
But he picked up that night andhe said, yeah, come over.
So it's like, great, okay, so.
And jeff, lin and rob said, no,we'll come over as well.
So, there, so he's going thosefour, he's going to go to bob

(43:21):
dylan's and he goes oh, I needto get my guitar.
Where's his guitar?
Tom petty's house, don't ask mewhy it's there.
So he goes over to tomty, tellshim what he's doing.
Tom Tom says can I come?
Yeah, why not come along?
So they start writing this songtogether.
Everyone just turns up, bobDylan turns up and they start
writing it and there's a packagein the corner, uh, and there's

(43:42):
a sticker on it handle with care.
So it's like, okay, that's thetitle sorted, brilliant.
And they write this song.
They do it all.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
Obviously it's incredible, a great and he turns
up Such a great song.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
Oh, I mean just so beautiful, like you think of a
super group and it just youthink I never worked with them.
And then she's like, wow, it'sso laid back and I think that is
testament to just GeorgeHarrison.
I think he must've just correctJust this vibe of friendship
that he created documentary talkabout.

(44:16):
They think he's, he was theirbest friend and he's got about
12 different best friends.
Um, and tom payne's got that aswell, that ability to just
really be incredibly charmingand likable.
So they, he turns out he goesto the, the record label yeah,
this is the seaside.
And they're like, wow, you'vegot those.
People wouldn't know you needto make an album out of this.

(44:36):
So that's what happens with thetraveling wheelbburys and the
reason the um, the travelingwilburys traveling always comes
out and hit it and that's thereason why this album is
released in 1989, so they didn'twant to clash between the two.
So you look at it and you think, oh, wow, that's definitely
come before, but no, it was, itwas afterwards.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
So uh, which can only have helped.
Can only have helped the salesof this album, because Wilburys
Volume 1 did so well.
Yeah it really did.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
It was hugely popular , wasn't it, and yeah, so this
was actually done, pretty muchdone and dusted beforehand.
But on I went back down, georgeHarrison turned up to the
studio and recorded some backand vocals and guitars and slide
.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
I mean again very much like the story a guy was
telling earlier about listeningto it and going isn't there a
lawsuit in this?
I do remember I'd forgottenit's so obvious because I know
all the Wilbur stuff ishappening.
But I'm like wow, mike Campbellsounds like he's channeling
some George Harrison slide onthis track, doesn't he?

Speaker 3 (45:44):
I mean sounds like he's channeling some george
harrison slide on this track,doesn't he?

Speaker 2 (45:45):
I mean, that's the most george harrison slide line
ever.
How is he pulling?

Speaker 3 (45:46):
that off and then I was like, oh yeah, it was
actually george.
Yeah, well, funnily enough, Iwent back down, was involved in
a lawsuit fairly recently,wasn't it?
Do you know that story with samsmith?

Speaker 2 (45:51):
no, no, what happened no?

Speaker 3 (45:53):
uh, so stay with me.
By sam smith came out probably,I don't know, I say recently.
I'm quite old now, so butyounger than you both but not.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
Yeah, I knew he'd get it in steve.
Yeah, I was waiting for it.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
So what must be?
I don't know 2010s or somethingit came out there uh, and the
chorus is oh yeah, stay with meyeah oh my god, yeah, so that
that happened.
And then there was a big kind ofhoo-ha about it and, um, I
think, well, they did getcredits in the end.
I think they settled it in areally, really tom and petty was

(46:27):
quite amicable about it and waslike I'm sure it wasn't
intentional.
There's a lot of music outthere.
Just, I think, just give us,you know, writing credits from
here on in and that's fairenough.
There's no need to sue anyonefor millions.
All that sort of stuff was just, it sounds like it genuinely
was actually an honest mistakeand, according to to the writers
, it does sound that way.
But uh, it's funny that it'snow been potentially plagiarized

(46:49):
in another work, when it itselfplagiarized.
Well, we had that conversationabout plagiarizing other other
pastiche rock tropes, but uh,yeah, he's no stranger to it,
you know he's stranger to it soum what's it up against again,
steve?

Speaker 2 (47:03):
it's against you're so bad and unfortunately, the
problem well, yuppie referencewhich is up to date, do you
really like?

Speaker 3 (47:09):
yes, about is that?
Is it really seen as like aclassic tom petty record?

Speaker 2 (47:13):
I personally do.
I love it.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
I really like you're so bad I saw that it was in
rolling stones top 50 pettysongs.
I mean maybe yeah got that manysongs, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
But um, my issue with it is uh, you're so bad the
best thing ever, it's like whyare you putting that enormous
crazy strumming in that I was?
Oh, I love that, that's.
That's a great hook, that's agreat hook that's.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
That's a very much a jeff lean thing to do.
I thought Guy would like that,because that's like a real
production hook.
It's like the producer's gone,oh, let's just put another
little bit of earworm in there.

Speaker 3 (47:48):
Do you not like in here?

Speaker 2 (47:49):
so bad Langers.

Speaker 3 (47:51):
Well, it just reminds me of Dylan in the verses.
Yeah, I love the bit ofmandolin.
There's a lot of niceproduction touches, but it
doesn't.
It doesn't do much for mereally.
Um, I think lyrically as well Ifind it a little bit, a bit
flat, however sorry, I mean it'sup against.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
I mean you're not really seriously going to vote
over no of course you're not.
No, of course.

Speaker 3 (48:16):
Well, yeah, I think I sound like a debbie downer but
like for me, the first half ofthe record is just like bam bam
bam.
Apart from track 4, bam bam,bam bam, and it's really great
and it's just everything's got,every little thing.
It's packed with a little ideaand an arrangement trick and a
BV thing and a slide guitarthing and then towards, but
halfway through they just soundlike they kind of get stoned and

(48:37):
then it becomes very much likehere's a vibe and here's a kind
of groove and nothing reallyhappens apart from maybe one or
two little drum moments orguitar flourishes.
But yeah yeah, I think chorusly,chorus, wise as well, I think I
went back down just has.
It has an amazing gospelness toit and it has that huge, I mean

(48:58):
it's going through we know that.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
Have you heard the Johnny Cash version?

Speaker 2 (49:03):
yes, it's amazing and Tom Petty loved it.
It was.
Who was that?
Produced by Mr Rubin?
And who was the backing band?

Speaker 1 (49:15):
oh, was it the Heartbreakers?

Speaker 2 (49:16):
it was indeed the album was pretty much should be
called Johnny Cash and theHeartbreakers.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
It that it was indeed .
Yes, yeah, the album was prettymuch should be called johnny.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Cash and heartbreakers yes I'd forgot
it's an amazing album.
Yeah, and, and johnny cash'sversion is just amazing.
You, you hear it and go.
Yeah, no, he's not gonna backdown no chance yeah, I'm not
gonna get into a rug with thisguy.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
Whatever you want, man, you'll have it, it's fine
well, tom petty sort ofstruggled with the song a little
bit because he thought it wastoo on the nose, didn't he?
It's like he felt I don't?
He felt, I went back down, wastoo unambiguous and sort of too
direct, uh, and that peoplewould would find that difficult,
and so he nearly didn't runwith it.
But I'm glad that he did,because it is a great song and

(49:55):
it has stood the test of time.
Right, that's going throughthree n0 then, which brings us
to the second quarterfinal,which is the cover that
strangely came through, whichwas Feel the Hulk Better by the
Birds against.
Love is a Long Road, for thefirst time, there was a girl out

(50:30):
here.

Speaker 4 (50:32):
She said she cared about me, she tried to make my
world the way she thought itshould be.
Yeah, we were desperate then Tohave each other to fall, but

(50:53):
love Is a long, long road.
Yeah, love Is a road.
The reason why, oh, I can say Ihad to let you go, baby, and

(51:17):
run away After what you did.
I can stay on and I'll probablyfeel a whole lot better when
you're gone.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
Wow alright.
So Lovers Along Road was a songI didn't know before this
record and when I put it on Ithought, oh, acdc have rocked up
, because it sounds it remindsme of babbro ride.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
It's got a great intro, but even the piano little
stabby piano thing just soundslike.

Speaker 3 (51:53):
It sounds like something off back in black.
A hundred percent it reallydoes.
I mean, this whole album to medoes feel like every song he's
got him or jeff or whoever, butlike they've gone.
This is the identity we'regoing to kind of emulate and
we're going to really go there,okay this is a question I wanted
to ask, so I'm going to just berude and jump in.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
Is this the first ever classic rock album?
And I'll explain what I mean byclassic rock.
It's a.
It's the term of beingself-conscious of the, of the
whole genre of rock, the wholehistory, and going yeah, let's
just take all of that andcondense it into 10 songs right.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
So you don't mean you don't mean the first classic, I
don't rock album, you mean thefirst classic rock.

Speaker 2 (52:31):
I was being titivating, yeah right, I see
that I was just speaking, justin case anyone's asleep at the
back.
I was just waking them up withthat yeah basically, it's just
the first time someone goeslet's take a whole genre, a
whole culture of, of music orart form in itself and just
condense it and make itbrilliant again, as quentin
tarantino did with films in the90s, as jk rowling did with um

(52:55):
children's literature in the2000s just taking every single
influence has made it brilliantand combining it into something
new and that would people feelat the same time new but
immediate and familiar, andwould drive people wild.
Is this the first time it'sever been done?

Speaker 3 (53:12):
I think it is quite possibly.
Yeah, there's a.
There's a very funny thingabout the 80s, uh, and their
love for the 50s and 60s, thatkind of resurgence.
Yeah, yeah, 80s songs, you know, using motown and stuff, but
doing all the rock tropes andkind of and bringing them all
together.
Yeah, I can't think of anotheralbum.
Maybe someone listening canwrite it and let us know, but I

(53:32):
can't think of um, well, this isthe weird thing about seven.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
I didn't put it in the runners and riders, I wanted
it just to seep out.
This is this album.
I played it to to my wifeyesterday and she's like, oh,
that's great, it's brilliant.
Yeah, when's it?
And I said when do you thinkthat's from?
She's like 75, is that?
Nope, yeah, 1989.
When I first heard this album,I was loving it.
It's years ago.
I was listening to it.
It's like, fuck me, is it 1989?

(53:55):
It's so weird that it's 1980.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
This is the year stone roses recorded their debut
album yeah, yeah, yeah I don'tknow what to say to that it's
like I want to be irritated byyour claim and yet I can't, I
cannot come back because it's abrilliant point, isn't?

Speaker 2 (54:07):
it's profound, it's deep, it cuts through the
fucking beautiful.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
It cuts to the core of what it is to be human.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
Yeah, I'm dropping the profundity?
Who?

Speaker 1 (54:18):
knows right.
I'm assuming that lovers longroad is going through here.
It is for me, yes, of course itis.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
It is for me.
I mean, I didn't, it's a coveryou should.
I mean, if you vote for a covera second time.

Speaker 1 (54:29):
No, it's not gonna happen, don't worry, fuck me
it's not gonna happen, all rightthe brand is being eroded right
, we've got Depending on youversus Running Down a Dream for
the first time.

Speaker 4 (54:55):
Sun beat down.
I heard the radio walk.
I was driving, trees went back,me and Del were singing.
A little runaway, I was flying,yeah, running down a dream that

(55:18):
never would come to me.
I'm running down a dream thatnever would come to me, working
on a mystery, going wherever Ineed, running down a dream, baby
, why won't you trust me?
You give up so easily.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
I don't know why you can't see I'm Depending on you,
don't let me down.
Oh, running Down a Dream.
I mean I really like Dependingon you.
It's a really good song.
I mean I like the album, likeyou two, up to song 10.
But I really do like the album,like you two up to you know,
song 10.
But I really do like the secondhalf of of the album.

(56:05):
But I think, yeah, I mean it'sRunning Down a Dream is just
phenomenal.
So what do you want to sayabout it, depending on you,
before it goes out anything else?

Speaker 3 (56:13):
As my newbie, as the newbie coming to this record,
depending on you, it just soundslike Elvis Costello and yeah
it's got as the newbie kind ofcoming to this record that to me
just sounds like depending onyou.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
Just sounds like.

Speaker 3 (56:23):
Elvis Costello oh nice, yeah, yeah it's it's, it's
got Stumpy beat yeah.
It's kind of it's good, it'sgood, but it's not.
It's not the opposite.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
Yeah, but if it was by Costello, it'd be.

Speaker 3 (56:34):
I'm depending on you, because it would have been much
more acerbic than that yeah,and I think that that is my
problem with petty um generallyis that he's, he is.
I mean, I see this him, he hasthe, the I'll start that again.
I see him as the typical softrock artist.
I mean that's, with this record, everything is very soft.

(56:56):
I mean the sound of the recordis soft.
I think the lyrics, no matterhow um or where they come from,
from a, from an artistic uhpoint of view, there's a very
sort of safeness to it and, uh,that song, you know, depending
on you, is kind of like a softvoice I think, I think you are
coming out literally tom petty'sutterly safest moment exactly I

(57:20):
will, as we said, a little bitoff air together.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
I would be very fascinated to see if you dug
into the catalogue to see ifthis taints your listening and
you're like no, it all soundspretty safe to me now, because
it didn't sound safe to peopleat the time.
Like I say, they were in withthe new wave and they were
considered quite edgy.
So if you ever do that, comeback to us, will do all right.

Speaker 3 (57:44):
But I'm voting running down a dream.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
Running down a dream's going through.
Obviously I, I assume, brett ofcourse, yeah, yeah, right and
then finally, uh, the apartmentsong, which was so beautifully
included in the puns at thebeginning of the episode.
Uh, versus a song that you mayalso have heard on your radio,
called free falling I used tolive in a two-room apartment

(58:10):
neighbors knocking on my wall.

Speaker 4 (58:13):
Times were hard.
I don't want to knock it.
I don't miss it much at all.
Oh yeah, I'm alright, I justfeel a little lonely tonight.
I'm okay most of the time.
I just feel a little lonelytonight, gonna leave this world

(58:36):
for a while.
I'm free Falling down.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
Free falling down, free falling down, free falling
down.
Yeah, I'm free Falling down,free falling down.
Never heard it.
Never heard it.
It was absolutely fresh to me.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
When I heard this album yeah, you hadn't heard
this one before, never.
You just listened to the album.
It hasn't really permeatedculture, has it really?
It's never really cut through,no, but it was absolutely fresh
to me.
When I heard this album.
Yeah, you hadn't heard this onebefore, never.
You just listened to the albumwithout listening to the first
track.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
It hasn't really permeated culture, has it really
?
It's never really cut throughthat song.
It's kind of like a lost track,isn't it?
Yeah, hardly thought of.
So I'm checking.
Of course I've heard it.
So this album, right right ismade in about three weeks.

(59:24):
It just keeps falling out ofthem.
Tom Petty is just on an absoluterippish coming up with these
songs.
Jeff Lynne's helping him.
They're just.
It's just this incredibleconnection.
They have probably a time.
They both need it, because JeffLynne ELO finished, I think, in
the mid 80s.
Tom Petty is looking forsomething else.
He's definitely having troublecontinuing with the
Heartbreakers as they are, andFree Falling is the second thing

(59:46):
they work on.
They work on You're so Bad.
Jeff Lynne suggests a couple ofthings like great, and then
they write a song together andTom Petty says you know, I just
literally came up with something.
And he says, oh no, add in achord there.
And then he leans over to himand says, yeah, maybe free
falling is.
Yeah, use free falling on thechorus and it's just an

(01:00:07):
extraordinary, huge, huge song.
For some I think it's probablythe.
Is it the most streamed songfor tom petty?

Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
I must be, I would imagine it's gotta be, it's
gotta be even in the tom pittand heartbreakers catalog.

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
It's to be the most streamed song I've ever heard.

Speaker 3 (01:00:20):
Yeah, it is.
Yeah, I would have said so.
It is by quite some way.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Yeah, so it's an extraordinary moment.
It's just that, and he said hewrote it in about 30 minutes.

Speaker 3 (01:00:30):
Great good for him well done.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
Yeah, so well, I mean profitable 30 minutes of his
career, isn't it?
Yeah, just just from trying tomake jeff lin laugh, basically,
um, um, so yeah, I mean it'sextraordinary.
Uh well, here's the questionabout the free falling then,
because I I've never been ableto answer does it lack for a
middle eight?
Slash a bridge?
Because I can see why howieepstein got annoyed playing bass
on it, because it literally isthe same chord progression you
mean howie Epstein was listeningoutside when he said I don't
want to play bass and I hatethis song it's like I mean, the
bass line would have been prettyfucking turgid to play, because

(01:01:10):
even though he goes, you don'tnotice that it's the same
because he goes up to.
But the thing is it's still thesame chord progression from the
very second it opens to thesecond chord progression from
the very second it opens to thesecond it ends.
It doesn't deviate, it doesn'tchange yes, they do a chugging
version of it versus a guitar,but there's no middle 8, there's
no minor chords it's the samething all the way through.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
No, it doesn't.
In my opinion, it doesn't lackit.
No, there's no way, evenobjectively, you can argue that
it lacks it because of the hugesuccess critically, commercially
.
Yeah, it's a good, it's a goodquestion, but I think I
personally I love songs that arethe same.
If you can pull off a song,there's the same three or four
chords the whole way through,it's an amazing achievement.
What do you think, guy?

Speaker 3 (01:01:51):
yeah, no, I agree, I think it's.
I think free falling's aamazing example of representing
a hook in different ways andarrangements as the song builds,
I love where it just feels likeit twists and turns.
You've got the little chuggypart, um, you've got the amazing
backing vocal kind of likerhythm thing that kind of comes
in with the title lyric oh sucha hook, that isn't it that?

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
I think that makes it actually yeah, I think if you
don't have that bit of the kindof coda end.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
It's like, oh, it's really great, but that's the
thing that yes, I think thearrangement, without the way it
was arranged, it wouldn't, itjust wouldn't.
You'd see the joins and youwould see that.
You know, because it took meyears to go.
Hang on, the chords don'tchange at any point.
That's true.

Speaker 3 (01:02:33):
A lot of modern songs these days are actually very
similar in terms of they arethree, four chords and that is.
It has a very linear uh flow toit and and free falling, I mean
there's I.
I also consider tom petty to belike a perfect artist to like
to drive down a highway to, andall these songs have that sort
of that flow, and this song inparticular just feels like they

(01:02:54):
have caught caught a littlemagic of a combination of a
lyric, a melody and some harmonyand then they're just redoing
that, that initial hit that youget when you combine them in
different mannerisms over therest of the record.
And that's the beauty of thesong, it's.
It's about sort of just.
You know that it is just aboutfree falling what's the title of
his third solo album?

Speaker 4 (01:03:16):
uh, I don't know, highway companion.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
There we go to your point.
If, what exactly?

Speaker 4 (01:03:22):
you know, he's the.

Speaker 3 (01:03:24):
You know, if ever there was gonna be a top gear
compilation of driving, drivinganthems, you're gonna find
you're gonna find top clocks,clocks and clangers yeah,
absolutely, he'd love that butno, but, joking aside, it's,
it's great.
And look to speak back to um.
Is it the apartment song, isn'tit, um?
You know, it's got a lovelyt-rex, sort of rock kind of will

(01:03:44):
you stop getting the referenceswrong by 10 years?

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
it's a buddy.
Holly pastiche it.
To me it sounds like t-rexanyway, it's a fucking buddy.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
Holly pastiche listen if, if what you don't
understand, we're talking aboutpersonal brands, right?

Speaker 3 (01:03:57):
you're burning your personal brand, right?

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
steve guy's personal brand is he'm 30 years younger
than you.
You're burning your personalbrand, right?
Steve Guy's personal brand ishe's 10 years younger than us.

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
He's going to push it , so our reference is Buddy
Holly.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
It obviously has to be later.

Speaker 3 (01:04:10):
Every reference is later For us it's Bo Diddley.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
For him it's the Rolling Stones.
He's always 10 years.
He's fucking 10 years younger.

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
He just goes.
I don't remember thedecimalisation of the pound.
Okay, I wasn't there when wejoined Europe originally.
I wasn't alive.
I hate you and everything youstand for no, but look it's.
It's got a.
Really actually the vocalmelody reminds me of I fought
the law and the law won.
It's got a kind of it's a BoDiddley thing, maybe it's a kind

(01:04:36):
of I can't remember who did.
I fought the law originallyit's.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
It's johnny fuller yeah, it has that sort of 50s
clash yeah kind of uh rock riffwhich is also three chords,
pretty much not all the waythrough.

Speaker 3 (01:04:48):
I love the little change with the slapback drums
and the quick chord changes Ilove apartment song.
Yeah, yeah but it's not freefalling and free.

Speaker 1 (01:04:56):
I just, I'm just gonna say, I'm gonna edit out
everything you said and just sayit's a body holy pastiche and
that's all that's going to be onthe podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:05:03):
Yeah, it's fine.
You do what you wish.
You have the power.
I'm voting for free falling,obviously.

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
I really like the apartment stall it's free for
free falling of course it is.

Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
I think it's.
I love the apartment stall butyeah, it's got.
There's a point where you'vegot you.
You know you need to move upthe property ladder and it's the
free falling isn't it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
Let's be honest yes, it is.
Yeah, no, I really like theapartment song.
I felt like the beau diddlypastiche didn't work and the and
the uh buddy holly one did umoh, it's great, but and the
melody is great and the lyric isso nice it's really memorable.

Speaker 2 (01:05:41):
It really sticks with me.
I'm a big fan of it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
It's a real hidden gem but yes anyway, it's going
out to free falling inevitably,which takes us to the semis,
which means we've got.
I Won't Back Down against.

Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
Love Is A Long Road wow, we're just getting to super
massive songs now, yeah, we'vebeen quite.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
yeah, okay To be fair , this isn't going to be one of
our episodes of which there havebeen quite a few where
controversial things get through.
We have got through to foursongs.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
Yeah, we can't even go.
Winner of Full Moon Fever isZombie Zoo.
Yeah, that wasn't going tohappen.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
This is one of those episodes where the final will
surprise no one when we getthere.

Speaker 3 (01:06:22):
Two words, two words, eleanor Rigby.

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
We do have the power to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:30):
It's fucking Revolver .
Anything could have gonethrough man.

Speaker 3 (01:06:33):
No, I totally disagree with that.
Anyway, let's move on.

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
You still want to argue with me.
I'm still bitter and I love.
Do you know?

Speaker 2 (01:06:40):
I love the fact that he's still bitter about it.
I fucking love that bad guy.

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
Once again, once again.
Why?

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
would I vote for Paul .

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
McCartney in a string quartet.
When I can vote for things thatthe actual Beatles are playing
on, let's move on.
Well, you know they all sing,do they?
Yeah, they do.

Speaker 3 (01:06:57):
I debate that you can hear the isolated vocals.
You've got George and you'vegot John on harmonies.
I dare say you can hear Ringomaking the tea in the background
.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
Anyway, this ain't making it.
I'm annoyed now.

Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
This ain't making it into the edit.
Right, let's move on.
It probably will.
I got this.

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
Come on, I won't back down versus Lovers Long Road.

Speaker 3 (01:07:18):
So, come on, I won't back down versus Lovers of the
Long Road.

Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
So Lovers of the Long Go on, brett.
No, no you go.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
No, no, no no, no, no , you first.
So bloody English, come on.

Speaker 3 (01:07:25):
Lovers of the Long Road.
Like I said, I didn't know thatsong before this record and I
really love it.
I can see.
Looking into my research I cansee obviously it was a single
and and I just really like theunashamed ACDC-ness of it.
It's that classic rock vibe andit sounds like the song from

(01:07:46):
the album that he would open aset with.
It sounds like the opener to me.
It's got a real great energy toit.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
It's a great opener to a set, isn't it?
Yeah, it really is.

Speaker 3 (01:07:55):
It's just got that amazing energy to it.
So I was surprised and, yeah,if you were to pick any song on
this record to go third, I thinkthat would be my pick.
But alas, I Went Back Down has,yeah, it has a really nice.
I think the thing for me aboutthis record is the vocals.

(01:08:16):
Tom Petty's vocals areincredibly dry.
Maybe it's a Jeff Lynne thing,I don't know, but you hear like
there's no reverb or delaysreally particularly helping his
vocals.
It's really kind of up thereand dry.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
There is on everything else, though, which
is a really interesting trick,isn't it?
It's like all theinstrumentation is very, very
reverb-y, but the vocals aren't.

Speaker 2 (01:08:37):
What a voice, though.
What a voice.
I verbi but the, but the vocalsaren't.
Yeah, what a voice though.
What a voice.
I've got a note here like Ijust love his singing.
It's incredible the choices hemakes.

Speaker 4 (01:08:45):
The way he sings like he.

Speaker 2 (01:08:46):
He has a the melody.
He's singing the melody, buthe's also singing in that tom
petty timbre which is socompelling.
It's like that dylan trick he's.
Obviously they supported dylanfor about a year, or they played
with dylan for you he's, and Iknow he's got those, but it's
just so beautiful.
He's singing, it's just.
I love his singing.

Speaker 3 (01:09:04):
I think it's phenomenal.

Speaker 1 (01:09:05):
I do, I do.
What do you think of?

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
him.

Speaker 3 (01:09:07):
I'd forgotten how much I love his singing.
Yeah, what do you think of hissinging in Langers?
I actually I'm probably boringeveryone, but every song he
sounds like he's impersonatingsomebody else a little bit.
And as with the rock riffs andthe kind of guitar rhythms and
the pastiches.
Musically, I think vocally,there's a little bit of him

(01:09:29):
being George Harrison, there's abit of Bob Dylan, there's a bit
of Mick Jagger.
There's a little bit ofeverything.
And I went back down is the onesong that I don't necessarily
and free falling I'd say I don'thear him being anything other
than him, for some reason maybebecause I mean free falling has.
He sings in a high the highestregister on the record.
It's really high it reallyworks with the lyric and you get

(01:09:51):
that sense of it's on the edgeof his range and it feels a bit
passionate yeah, and away backdown isn't as high.
But it has that lift and it hasthat sweetness that I feel like
it's him not being anyone else,and I think that's why I like it
more than um love his own longroad I really want to push back
on that, but I'm not going to,because he was such a student of

(01:10:13):
classic rock and a student ofall the people that you
mentioned yeah, and there'snothing wrong with that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:18):
Go on, and there's nothing wrong with that no, I
know, I know I sort of I sort ofdon't.
I can hear the dylan, but Idon't.
I don't hear the other people.
I hear mcguinn, it doesn'tmatter.
The point is, he's such astudent of those people that
your point stands for sure.
Um, I mean, I think yeah for me.

Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
I love his singing a lot and his upper register,
which he doesn't use, which Ithink is a real great execution
of his taste.
He doesn't use it a lot.
His upper register is amazing,like when a free fall in that
chorus on that and even um, youknow running down a dream.
In the end of that he goes toit and he's so powerful, but he
doesn't overuse it, doesn't justgo.

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
Oh, I sound amazing he sings really strongly in his
lower register, which is quiteunusual.
Yeah, uh, you know I alwayshave to sing to the top of my
register because otherwise I'mjust going.
Hello, I'm singing like this.
You know, it's like oh dear,and a lot of people are like
that.
Unless they're pushing to acertain extent, it doesn't but
he's his low register is so sortof strong and so full of

(01:11:14):
character that that he doesn'toften need to which makes it all
the better when he does yeah, awhole lot of twang going on oh
yeah oh, yeah, right I'massuming, then uh, what are we
voting for?

Speaker 2 (01:11:27):
um, I'm voting for, I won't back down, but I mean,
love is a long road, I have tosay, is another uh, driving song
, because it's written it's.
It's one of the only songs thatisn't a co-write between Jeff
Lynn and Tom Petty.
Jeff Lynn has got a lot ofco-writing credits in this album
, so ka-ching for Jeff.
But this is just a co-writebetween Campbell and Petty, and

(01:11:49):
Mike Campbell said he was kindof inspired by his motorbike to
write this song Don't ask me howthat comes through, but you've
got that.
You've got running down a dream.
It's driving rock, isn't it?
Yeah, it is.

Speaker 1 (01:12:03):
Which is such a it's a difficult thing to say because
it's such a sort of malignedsort of genre now, because when
you say driving rock I justthink of, like you know.
Layla and you know, like thoseclassic CDs, that your dad would
put on.

Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
It's like drive forward.
Can you imagine saying whatmusic are you into?
I'm into driving rock.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
Driving rock.

Speaker 2 (01:12:25):
I want to listen to Layla by Eric.

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
Clapton, and something by Queen 12 CDs and
something by Brian Adams.

Speaker 2 (01:12:33):
It's going to get a hipster remake, I think.

Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
Driving rock it's Nadir, it's the mullet of music
genres it's going to come back,and it's going to come back
strong, so I love that.
I can't wait.
Count me in.
I'm going to ride that wave,okay, uh, lang is what you voted
for.

Speaker 3 (01:12:52):
I won't back down, right, I think we're all voting
for that, even though love is a.
Love is a long road.

Speaker 1 (01:12:55):
Is a, is a as a great tune, okay, and then finally
running down a dream which weneed to talk about a little bit
more uh, against against freefalling.
So Love is a Long Road is agreat tune, okay, and then
finally Running Down a Dreamwhich we need to talk about a
little bit more against FreeFalling.

Speaker 3 (01:13:04):
So Running Down a Dream for me, if you want.
Who?
That reminds me of a little bit.
It strangely reminds me ofBlondie a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:13:12):
Don't know why the vocals.

Speaker 3 (01:13:14):
It reminds me of Debbie Harry.
Wow, but this was my this wasthe song.

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
They're both blonde and that's about it.
That's all I can.
I don't know what it was.

Speaker 3 (01:13:22):
It just there's a certain Chord shift in the
verses.

Speaker 2 (01:13:24):
Okay, that's really interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:13:26):
But this song was and I'm torn really Because it is
Going into this it was myfavourite Tom Petty song that I
knew of.

Speaker 4 (01:13:36):
Oh, okay, that's interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:13:37):
Yeah, it was one.
It's one of those songs thatyou I just I don't know where I
heard it or where I picked it upbeing not a massive tom petty
phone, because it was a singleright was it single?
Yeah, it was, it was, but I Ijust love the fact that it just
has one idea really and it justkeeps running with it.
It's kind of similar to freefalling in that sense.

Speaker 1 (01:13:56):
You know it's got that riff and I love the vocals.
I love the tune.
I just find that riff a bitmoronic.

Speaker 3 (01:14:01):
I've got, I love and I said amazing guitar lick at
the start.

Speaker 2 (01:14:07):
I love amazing guitar lick.
I think it's like but it isagain.

Speaker 3 (01:14:11):
It's a past.
It sounds like a pastiche of asort of a black sabbath thing or
like a like a classic 70sgothic rock.
I don't know what it is.
It reminds me of something, butI just love the woo-hoo bit at
the end and the kind of climbingchords.
It's just, and it goes, and itgoes.
It's just.

Speaker 2 (01:14:29):
Well, the whole the concept of the song is.
He wanted to write a drivingsong, as we've discussed, but it
was like going up through thegears.

Speaker 3 (01:14:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:40):
So as it progresses, it's going further, it's getting
into fifth gear.
At the end and I think even atthe end that I read today I
couldn't really hear it becauseI was only listening to it once
afterwards was that the bassjust holds that e-note and the
chords change.

Speaker 4 (01:14:50):
So it gets this real tension growing at the end.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
It's a real tension.
And the guitar solo, yeah, yeah, he just that is done.
So mike campbell steps up,starts playing his guitar solo
and tom pet says I just lookedat jeff lynn's face.
It's kind of his jaw just hitthe floor because he just did it
in one take one time one takeand that's it there, mike.

(01:15:14):
Mike campbell is is he is.

Speaker 1 (01:15:16):
We should talk about him more because he's like the
guitarist's guitarist, you knowyeah, it's like it's like he's
so respected as a producer, as asongwriter he's had a load of
hits with a load of people but,particularly by guitarists.
As a guitarist not leastbecause he doesn't I think Tom
Petty's phrase was he's not ashowboat.
You know, he doesn't wheneverhe plays.
If he's asked to do a solo, hewill do a wonderful, tasteful

(01:15:40):
solo if you want him to playfast he can, but he will always
play in subservience to thesong's needs.
He will never go.
Oh, I'm going to show off inthis bit and do a whopping great
.

Speaker 2 (01:15:52):
You know he, he's a musician and and and he's trying
to serve the song aboveeverything yeah, I mean I I
watched the same documentary andI didn't really necessarily
warm to mike campbell hugely,but I've have to huge respect
him as a musician because, oh mygod, they did this point in the

(01:16:12):
documentary where they play ahank williams song him, petty
and the band, and it turns outthat's the first time they've
ever played it and you listen toit and you're going fuck,
that's good.
And campbell is playing themandolin and it's just exquisite
, his mandolin playing.
It's some of the finestmandolin playing I've ever heard
and he's doing it off thefucking cuff.

Speaker 3 (01:16:30):
Yeah, it's unbelievable, he's obviously an
amazing session player.
I mean he's.
He's on um the boys of summer,isn't he don henley, he plays on
that.
He's one of those guys thatjust seems to pop up across
every big you know LA,california, americana, big pop
song of the 80s really.

(01:16:50):
But then he does have his ownband who has the beautiful title
of the Dirty Knob, the Dirty.

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
Knob.
Yes, that's fantastic.
I'm not sure where you stand onthat, but yeah, got a 12 inch
coming out soon nice yay lovingyour work 7 inch really yeah, so
how are you voting?

Speaker 1 (01:17:13):
I really like running down a drink.
Oh right, pop quiz.
Who does he reference in it andwhy Del Shannon?

Speaker 2 (01:17:19):
Yeah, he does Del Shannon.
Why?
Because he produced DelShannon's album.

Speaker 1 (01:17:23):
Yeah, so when he says me and Del were singing Little
Runaway, obviously Runaway is aDel Shannon song, but I sort of
got the reference but I didn'trealise it was literal, because
it's like he probably wassitting in the car with Del
Shannon singing Runaway.

Speaker 2 (01:17:35):
because they were friends, because he made friends
with all these people, peopleand del shannon's initiation
with you as a friend is to makeyou sing.
Run away with him yes and thenif he really likes you hats off
to larry, but only if you go tothe next level yeah, although
they did, they also fell out.

Speaker 1 (01:17:50):
Why did they fall out ?
oh, because he said those aretwo amazing songs and then I
can't sing a third no, no, hefell out because he was
producing del zom and uh uh,their first bassist, whose name
suddenly eludes me that had leftthe heartbreakers, and he was
producing del shannon's albumand howie epstein was playing
bass for for del shannon and herang del shannon and he's like,

(01:18:15):
uh well, this is all good.
And he's like del shannon's,like please don't take howie.
Tom fett is like yeah, I'mtaking that way, and he just
just steals his bass and stuff.
He's been a heartbreaker forthe next 15 years.

Speaker 3 (01:18:28):
So they didn't speak for quite a while, but speaking
of Dale Shannon, he is on thisrecord though, isn't he?

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):
Yes, he is.
Oh, where is he?

Speaker 3 (01:18:35):
Oh, yes, Straight after Running Down a Dream, I
believe.
So this album features thatfamous sort of please turn this
record over little ditty fromTom Petty.

Speaker 2 (01:18:47):
So if you're listening to, this on a streamer
there's a point where Tom Pettygoes.
So if you're listening to thisalbum on CD, please take a
moment to respect all those whoare listening on tape or vinyl
who have to turn the record over.
And the background is BarnyardAnimal Noises, and that is Del
Shannon.

Speaker 1 (01:19:03):
Is it?
No, that's Tom Petty.

Speaker 2 (01:19:05):
surely no, dale Shannon provides credited
Barnyard Animal Noises.

Speaker 1 (01:19:11):
Oh, I see.
He is also available for gardenparties and bar mitzvahs.
But at this point I see he'smaking the noises.
He'll get it where he can getit.
I thought he meant he wasspeaking.
I got it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:20):
Yeah, all those noises are Shannon.

Speaker 1 (01:19:23):
Wow, that's very.

Speaker 2 (01:19:25):
Shannon's farm.
I did not know that Shannon'sfarm Got it All right.

Speaker 1 (01:19:29):
I love running down a dream, but I'm not mental.
I've got to vote for you,Fraulein.

Speaker 2 (01:19:32):
Guy, are you mental?

Speaker 3 (01:19:36):
Yes, I mean.
Look, I think I know which waythis is going to go, so I'm
going to vote for safety, notfor safety.
Out of what do you call it?
With your heart yeah, exactlywith running down a dream just
because it's on my runningplaylist.

Speaker 1 (01:19:52):
It's a fucking banger yeah, you said it was your
favourite one when you got here.
That's true.
You're true to yourself it's agreat song.

Speaker 2 (01:19:58):
It is a great song.
It's great yeah, I mean, howconfident are you, guy?

Speaker 3 (01:20:04):
you know what?
I don't care, it's win, win forme it's one, two free falling.

Speaker 1 (01:20:13):
It's going through to the final oh, there you go, so
I know this is going to.
There are people all over theUS, the UK and Europe listening
to this, not listening to thisnow, as we speak going.
Wow, the shock McCartney andGould final of Full Moon Fever
being free-falling against.

(01:20:34):
I Won't Back Down.
I mean, did you hear thatpodcast where they came up with
that crazy final?

Speaker 2 (01:20:40):
But you've burned your own personal brand and we
have spent a lot of time, yeahbuilding, building that up yeah,
I mean it.
It's almost the most surprisingfinal we could have considering
a previous.
Let's be honest yeah, yes, it'scontroversial by by its
non-controversiality, yeah Idon't know what we're gonna do
do for Act 3, but that's quite anice twist to do that.

(01:21:03):
So Irving Azov yes said, irvingAzov is the head of the record
label.
Tom Petty turns up with thisplatinum-coated recording and he
says, hmm, it's a bit short andthere's no hits on it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:24):
And we're not going to release it, and we're not
going to release it, and we'renot going to release it.
We refuse to release thisrecord and the other story.
There are two stories.
One story is that Irving Azovsaid there are no hits on it and
then they refused to release it.
The other one is that the recordcompany and I'm sure both are
true the other one is that therecord company said that they
didn't think it fit his image,which again comes to what I've
been saying to guy about this.

(01:21:44):
You know, because he, he, hisimage was genuinely quite a lot
edgier than this and they said.
They said we think you're goingto lose your audience because
it's so smooth, uh, and that youknow you're.
You're a rock and roll guy uh,we don't know what you're doing,
but yes, but the.
The bigger argument was I can'thear any hits on this and it
took as of leaving the companyyeah, for them to.

Speaker 2 (01:22:05):
He was blocking it.
He was laughing his ass offbecause he was blocking it from
coming out it just.
I mean, it's unbelievable.
So this is another reason whyit took.
So it was recorded in late 87and recorded in about three
weeks and that's his mostglorious three-week period.
And then it takes.
It takes another 18 months tocome out, april 89.

(01:22:26):
It's crazy, is that?
Purely?

Speaker 3 (01:22:28):
because of the record label and also the wilburys.
But yeah, it's the record label.

Speaker 2 (01:22:33):
They only had nine songs, to be fair, so they did
need a few more, but basicallythe record label and uh wow,
it's quite something, isn't it?
Yeah, well, when you look atthe tracks and this that we've,
that we've had to get rid of forthe final, it's not like I mean
.
This is.
It's a lot of thriller and verylittle filler yeah, I, I again.

Speaker 1 (01:22:54):
Maybe it was to do with with them sort of going you
know, you, this isn't, thisisn't what your audio want, the
audience wants.
This is.
You know, this is too middle ofthe road.
People are just going to think,oh, it's plodding, you know, and
again I mean, yeah, you know,with something like free falling
, I mean it is, it is kind ofplodding, you know, in a way,
and I guess maybe you could, youcan't hear it out of context
and then.
So then it takes and it's aclassic and you can't unhear the

(01:23:16):
classicness.
But, um, I don't know, I don'tknow what they were thinking.

Speaker 2 (01:23:21):
It's extraordinary, isn't it?
Your job is to assess songs assoon as possible and to say is
that commercial or not, and tosay you have delivered me an
album with Free Falling.
I Won't Back Down.
Running Down a Dream, and Loveis a Long Road on it.

Speaker 4 (01:23:36):
Yeah, there's no hits there's no hits.

Speaker 2 (01:23:39):
There's definitely not five singles in this album,
maybe seven if we really pushedour luck.
It's extraordinary.
I mean, guy, you've worked in aand r yeah previous to
producing.

Speaker 3 (01:23:52):
What would you have done if this had arrived on your
desk?
I mean, I've been probably bepretty happy, but it's hard,
like songs are.
Songs are a hard one in termsof like you have.
The only way you can air nowsomething realistically is to to
go with your their own tasteand you have to have a taste
that is uh, if you're at thatlevel and doing those sort of

(01:24:13):
artists, commercial and and veryevery man, you have to be able
to detach your personal tastefrom your sort of business taste
, I guess, or your, your, um,your your anr taste.
And yeah, I mean, I don't quiteunderstand what more he could
have done really, becausethey're extremely commercial, to
the point that steve is red inthe face with how commercial

(01:24:35):
they can be at times, and that's, in my, my opinion, a sign of a
hit is when steve turns purple.
Um, but joking aside.
Strong, yeah, but joking aside,uh, I don't.
I don't know where they were,what their, what their plan was
for him.
It's not just a question ofhearing something in isolation,
is it music?
It's about, uh, how those songsyou know where they come from

(01:24:57):
previously, where they're goingas an artist.

Speaker 1 (01:24:59):
Brett's point about the classic rock thing, maybe
because it wasn't a cool thingto pastiche, you know, bo
Diddley and Buddy Holly and theBirds and all of these back
references, because it was sucha grab bag of these are my
heroes.
Maybe that was what they foundoff-putting.

Speaker 3 (01:25:22):
Maybe, who knows?
Maybe it's the cocaine talking,who knows, maybe it's just
there.
We go all right look, I, Ican't.

Speaker 1 (01:25:28):
I'm as predictable as this final is.
I actually can't tell which wayit's going to go, because I
went back down and free fallingare obviously both completely
iconic and and brilliant, andone of them has a beetle playing
slide on it, uh, and and one'san fm.

Speaker 3 (01:25:43):
Well, they're both fm radio classics of the period,
so I've got no idea where thisis going to go well, I can, I,
I'm going to vote quite easilyfor me early yeah I mean,
they're both two songs with thebest choruses on the record and,
like I said before, this albumfor me is a little top heavy.
I think the chorus is at thetop end, but these are tracks
one and two.

Speaker 2 (01:26:01):
Yeah, what an opening salvo.

Speaker 3 (01:26:03):
I mean yes this is why, also, I think it's a very
commercial record, because thetrack listing is actually for a
streaming audience.
It's very handy to have yourbest songs at the top, because
people are going to listenthrough and from top down.
That's actually something thatis more more prevalent as as the
industry heads that way.
Uh, people, you see peopletop-loading their albums and I

(01:26:23):
think this kind of benefits fromthat, even though it was from
1989.
They both have the bestchoruses.
They both, I think, use hisvoice to best effect.
But for me, free Falling justhas a register that I've grown
to love and I've really lovedthat urgency.
There was always a story thatwhenever George Martin got

(01:26:44):
artists to record, he wouldalways get them to up the key a
little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:26:47):
So it's on the edge of right of the vocal range, the
rod shewitt thing.

Speaker 1 (01:26:51):
Yeah as well, right on the edge and free falling
just has, which is where I lovesingers to be always yeah, and
the free falling, just just itdoes something.

Speaker 3 (01:26:59):
The rest of the album is a little bit more lower
registered and not quite asurgent, and it benefits
immensely from that.
Even if it's a one-trick pony,it just keeps giving you that
urgency and that the idea is sostrong that it just it can get
away with doing it in simplerways as the song kind of evolves
.
So I'm going with free fallingokay.

Speaker 2 (01:27:20):
So yeah, I mean, I love free-falling.
Jeff Lynn suggested the lyricsto him as he was just literally
jamming it out, and he says yeah, sing it up an octave.
He says to go up the octave andhe pulls it off sublimely,
probably trying to impress hisnew friend.
You imagine writing withsomeone second, kind of one of
the fourth, fifth times you'veever met them and you go, fuck,

(01:27:42):
I need to sing it up the octave.
So he did it and he nailed it.
Um, it's incredible.
In 1987, the start of all ofthis, I started this podcast off
with um a meet in birmingham.
But before he went on that tour, tom payne's house was burnt
down.
He was having breakfast withhis wife, it was her birthday,
they're having a nice day andthe fucking house burnt down.

(01:28:03):
I thought what the fuck?
How did that happen?
And it was proven to be arson.
Someone had attempted to burnhis house down.
It's an assassination attempt.
So of him, and everyone and allhis objects left him.
Um, he lost everything.
Obviously everyone got outalive, which is very thankful,
but you know, a hugely traumaticevent.

(01:28:25):
He then goes off tours withDylan and he makes his new
friends.
He makes friends with GeorgeHarrison.
Jeff Lynne has this beautifulexperience.
It's almost like a rebirth, andthis album is his, his, his
debut solo album, and so I Won'tBack Down is so personal, it's

(01:28:46):
so important to so many people.
That song, the lyric, isfucking amazing and he, having
written it, second guessed it,worried about it.
Everyone had to say no, it'sgreat, and it is great, so I'm
voting for.
I won't back down, steve overto you the winner.

Speaker 1 (01:29:03):
I agree with everything you said there, and
my head wants to vote.
I won't back down but my hearthas to go free falling because
it's.
It was very much the the songof of that year for me and, yeah
, it fills me with a nostalgiathat I won't back down, doesn't?
So, whilst they're probablyequal billing for me here, free

(01:29:25):
falling pips it and is thereforethe winner of the full moon
fever and an amazing winner.

Speaker 2 (01:29:34):
Like what an opening two songs for an album.

Speaker 1 (01:29:36):
It's just ridiculous, just ridiculous no book ending
points there at all, though it'slike do you know what I'm going
to open with those two and endwith zombie zoo, because I've
gone mad, yeah but he did.

Speaker 2 (01:29:47):
He did because this uh, do you know what the
original title of this album was?
Songs.
It was songs from the garage,because it's recorded in mike
campbell's garage nice and as hedrove over from his house,
what's one of the roads hedrives down?
Ventura Boulevard, oh, nice,and that's what makes it a song.
And what is also beautifulabout this is it's the second

(01:30:08):
song he ever writes with JeffLynne, to the point where such a
fecund period for them likethis album they're literally
mixing down Free Falling andthey go oh, while you're mixing
that down, let's go and write asong.
And they go and write I won'tback down, it's just ridiculous

(01:30:29):
it's just one of those beautifulthings that happens like he's
had a really shit 87 and then ithappens and he has an
incredible year.
He writes some of the bestsongs of his life Free falling,

(01:30:50):
free falling down the Free,falling down the Free falling

(01:31:11):
down the Free falling down theFree.
Falling down the Free, freefalling, free Falling, free
Falling you.