Grace (Jeff Buckley)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, welcome to McCartney in Goal.
This is the podcast where wegenerally talk about stuff when
there hasn't been an incidentoutside my house with woodchip.
That has discombobulated me andconfused things, and now I'm
all flustered and I don't knowwhat to say.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
It sounds like a pulp lyric that it is a pulp lyric.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
So if you've listened to actually, to be honest, Do
you?
Want to tell people whathappened?
Well, what happened was there'sa big pile of wood chip outside
the house, yeah, and then, andthen, and then a young man, uh,
just decided to throw iteverywhere and I had to go and
deal with him.
So we're running behind now.
So what I'm going to suggest?

Speaker 2 (00:30):
let's call it wood chip gate wood chip gate.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
It's wood chip gate if he which is ironic because
we've got a new gate and ofcourse, if he'd thrown wood chip
over the gate, it would havebeen wood chip gate gates oh,
that'd be beautiful which wouldhave been quite something.
So, what I suggest, what I'mgoing to suggest to you
listeners this evening, is thatyou go to any other episode,
preferably one of the ones thatDave was presenting, because he
does a much more comprehensiveintro.
Listen to the intro to thatwhich explains how the podcast

(00:53):
works, and then come back tothis episode.
Pause this episode, come backto exactly where you were and
then start from there.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
And then you'll know the format.
It's A convenient and B helpswith the streaming numbers, so
it's perfect.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
I think, controversially, that I should
say hello to the two people onthe podcast with me this evening
, because we're going to talkabout some stuff.
I don't know where I am, Idon't know who I am, so let's
say hello to Guy.

Speaker 4 (01:19):
D-Ream brother Lovely .
That's ream brother lovely.
That's all I could do.
You know what I?
I spent all day thinking ofthat and that's the best I can
do tonight it's such a.
It's such a serious heavy albumthere is nothing funny.
That's the best I could knowserious chat from here on in
lads just serious, hefty chat.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
I'm really worried about this moment as well okay,
there we go and brett hallelujah.
Oh, that's not okay, but it'snot my finest work.
But as Guy said we're on slimpickings here.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
We are.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Which I think was the name of one of his side
projects.
It was yeah, yeah.
The banjo act Beautifullydescribe him.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
Ask me about the puns .

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Hey, Steve, tell us about those puns.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
Hallelujah, I thought you'd never ask.
Dream on if you think I'm goingto write any of those.
I didn't have the grace towrite any.
Let's move on.
Sorry, sorry, dream on, brother.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
I mean, yeah, I can see why you're half bothered.
Your heart's not in it.
Let's be honest, well.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
I've got to be honest with you.
I'm missing Dave and, in thehopes of trying to recreate
Dave's presence, I thought whyspend the week slash month
running up to this podcast?
Writing some actually goodpoems when I can recreate Dave's
presence by scribbling some onthe back of this small cue card
two minutes before we start.

Speaker 4 (02:41):
You know what, steve?
You know that's very honest ofyou.
It's just so real of you to sayso.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Hey, come on, I'm going to give you 100 points,
guy.
100 points, and there were onlythree available, so that's fine
.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Is that a last goodbye to the puns, then, for
this podcast it?

Speaker 4 (02:54):
is oh, I think we have to yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
Loving your work, sir Brett.
Save us from this inane inanityand insanity.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Fuck me, jeez, Get on with it.
Lad, take it.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Runners and Riders please.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
So the Runners and Riders.
Steve, thanks for handing overto me, Hang on.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
Do you know what I should probably say we're doing?
Grace by Jeff Buckley thisevening.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
Well, well done, well done.
It is so slick, beautiful,beautiful, beautiful.
If you're still listening, Ijudge you Right.
Okay, runners and Riders, jeffBuckley is.
Jeff Buckley on guitars andvoice, mick Grondel on bass and
Matt Johnson on drums.
Produced, mixed and engineeredby Andy Wallace.

(03:34):
It is Jeff Buckley's only soloalbum.
It was released on August 23rd1994.
Two mixed reviews, ten songs,51 minutes long, four singles
from the album, and it soldapproximately two to three
million copies.
Them's your runners and riders.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
I love that you said Jeff Buckley is and then listed
all the people who are JeffBuckley.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
Well, when I designed the idea of doing the runners
and riders, it was for bands,and then I realised we've got to
do runners and riders for anartist.
So I just thought yeah, jeffbuckley is you know, jeff
buckley?
Jeff it tricks me to be honest,it tricked me oh tricksy stuff.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
Tricksy stuff, brett.
Yeah, I'm not going to ask you,as ever, which is that?
That?
The, uh, the thought thatalways goes through my mind here
when you're like which sold twomillion copies and have no,
with no time frame in its firstweek between now and then it
sold, I.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
it sold, I think, up to its death, because I think I
do get interrogated on this.
It does stress me out becauseit's actually quite hard to find
the figures.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
No, I was admitting that it bothers me and that I
wasn't going to ask you about it, so let's move on.
No, it sold up to its death175,000 copies.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
Then afterwards it sold a lot more.
Went gold in Australia Abillion copies after that.
It's interesting, it's not.
I always thought when you wentto HMV there was loads of copies
of it and you thought loads ofpeople owned it.
But the stats I could find Ithink they're up to about 2011,
were about 2 million copiesworldwide, which doesn't seem a
lot for such a seeminglyubiquitous album.

(05:01):
I thought everybody on earthhad a copy of this.
Yeah, but I think he's.
I think he's a, like amusician's or a muso fans
musician, isn't he?

Speaker 1 (05:09):
he's really right.
Well, he's all sorts of things.
He's a very confusing man.
Let in bearing in mind that,let's uh, what's your
relationship with this album?

Speaker 4 (05:18):
discovering it probably quite late.
Again.
I'm probably in the sort ofpost buckley well post his death
.
Essentially, uh would have beenearly 2001, going to art
college, going through thatphase where you discover there
was more music.
Because I came from thecotswolds, I went to move to
london and discovered there wasmore music besides brit pop,

(05:39):
which surprised me.
It's more than the oasisb-sides I was just.
I was a regional regions boy.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
I was hang on hang on , you're you're from the
cotswolds, I'm from thecotswolds, oh yeah, where?

Speaker 4 (05:51):
whereabouts uh sort of near chipping camden this is
brilliant it's like in a in arecent episode.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
This is how how a long uh guy and I've been
friends.
Um, in a recent episode, Idiscovered that Guy is actually
about 52 years younger than us.
Now I'm discovering he's from apart of the country I didn't
realise he was from.
I feel like a bad acquaintance.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
I think acquaintance is the only word you can use at
the moment.
You're showing your absolutelack of knowledge about who Guy
Langley is.
Langley is your surname, by theway.
Just in case.
That's confusing, you know.
Just in case, yeah, no uh.

Speaker 4 (06:26):
I discovered it.
Yeah, through that phase of youknow everyone goes through
where they go.
Oh, you should listen to thisand then yeah, yeah, cool.
And then everyone, everyone Iknew, went through it one week
after the next sort of yeah thisweek it was my turn to kind of
get obsessed with uh, hearing,hearing the record and just
getting sort in.
Really it's a very uniquesounding vocalist and his

(06:50):
arrangements and it sounds very90s.
As a record I've got to obsesswith it.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
I'm going to pick your brains on the production of
it because it piques myinterest.

Speaker 4 (07:00):
From then on he's like a gateway drug, he's like a
sort of artist that spans in.
Then you get into more Dylan.
For me I got lots of Bob Dylanoff the back of his covers and
his work and Nina Simone and LedZeppelin and all that sort of
stuff.
He was really the sort of thejunction between all those
little avenues I could take inmusic.
So yeah, it means a lot to meas a record.

(07:21):
It means a lot to me.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
Brett.
Well for me, yeah, no, I've gottwo copies of this album, as
we've seen this week, because wewere trying to find when the
second edition came out with anextra track on it, and I've
actually got both, so I reallydo like them.
My experience of it was that Iwas, you know, would have heard

(07:51):
it when I was about 22, 23 kindof, you know, in your ideal
young, romantic kind of periodof your life where you're
listening wistfully to thingslike this and Nick Drake and,
you know, enjoying kind of thejoy of being sad really that's
what melancholy is, I supposeand that that type of thing.
But then I haven't listened toit for about 10 years.
So I was really interested to,when Guy suggested we do this
album, how I would feel about itwhen I listen to it again, and
I'll tell you during the podcast.
That keeps you listening,doesn't it?

Speaker 4 (08:13):
what about you?
What's your relationship withit?

Speaker 1 (08:16):
I never liked it all extremes.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
To be fair, does he like it?
Definitely doesn't like it no,no, I didn't.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
To be clear, I'm not being controversial here.
I've never actively disliked it, but I found it was too Well,
all right, spoiler, I do now.
Oh you've spoiled it.
Oh, I'm sorry I do now and Ilike it even more, having spent
some real time with it for thisepisode, which, I have to say,

(08:46):
I've enjoyed enormously and hasreally got me over the thing,
but to me I always found it.
I had so many different issueswith it that all came together
to just make me mean I owned itand never listened to it.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (09:01):
We can get into those another day.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
Let's get into an issue per round and then we need
to cut out that bit there whereyou said now I love it, and
then we can staple on at the endand that gives us our ending
okay, yeah, you're being serious.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
No, I could do okay, but that'll be a vault face yeah
, yeah, okay, good, uh, as longas you know that I uh, I tell
kids off if they pronounce itlike that.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
So that's okay, well, how do you pronounce it then,
voltiface?

Speaker 1 (09:27):
Voltiface.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
Voltiface.
I mean, you sound like a wally,though, don't you saying
Voltiface?

Speaker 1 (09:31):
You sound like a complete knobhead.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
There's no way you can order a pint and then say
that you pretentious arseholeVoltiface.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
I was going to order that pint but then I had a volta
fast and I decided I decidednot to right, let's get into.
Let's get into round one,because this has gone on far too
long.
Um, round one is dream brotheragainst Cause they're waiting

(09:59):
for you.

Speaker 5 (10:01):
I got waiting for mine.
Nobody ever came.
Nobody ever came.
Oh, that was so real.

(10:21):

Speaker 2 (10:39):
What an album.
This is the guitar playing.
It's amazing.
It is an extraordinarilyeclectic album and there are
very few songs that are similar,and obviously these aren't
really similar either.
Dream Brother is the end of thealbum, isn't it, Steve it is
because we are yes, we're not.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
Well, both of these are relevant to this discussion.
We are not listeners, includingForget Her, for a number of
reasons, not least because hedidn't want it anywhere near
this album.
We'll come back to that later.
He very strongly didn't want itanywhere near this album and in
fact it was replaced by so Realmuch to the record, company's

(11:20):
extreme discombobulation andupset and dismay, frankly, yeah,
company's extremediscombobulation and upset and
dismay, frankly, yeah, um, uh.
But also I think I think Ithink we'll get more into to why
it's not here later but I Ithink dream brother is a.
It's not a great ending, um,but I think he should be allowed
the ending that he, that hechooses he really wanted this as
the ending of the album.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
He fought very hard, didn't he have dream brother on?
So yeah, I think I think it's.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
I think it's a weaker ending to what I now accept is
a very strong, in many ways,album.
For me, this is easily so Real,I have to say.

Speaker 2 (11:54):
OK, so you're voting.
So Real early Guy, let's hearfrom you.

Speaker 4 (11:58):
For me and maybe we'll get on to it when we talk
about Forget Her and so Reallater potentially, but I'm a
Dream Brother fan.
The thing about Jeff Buckley isthere's a really weird mesh of
so many different styles andinfluences.
Sometimes he's heavy, sometimeshe's very sort of folky,
sometimes he's sort of soul andsometimes he's kind of
everything in between andweirdness, and he seems to find

(12:21):
arrangements and song structureand things that are very off
kilterter, and so Real is one ofthose.
Well, both of them to a degree.
But so Real particularly isreally great.
It's really like you're drunkand you're sort of woozy and it
has a beautiful lilt to it andthe time signatures are all over
the place and that's great.
That's what I like about itdefinitely A hundred percent and
it's definitely got.
It's got that really heavy,gnarly bit as well where it just

(12:44):
goes really Led Zeppelin sortof noise, trashing the
instruments.
It sounds mad.
You would not expect that to bein the same song, but Dream
Brother, it has a real cinematic.
It sounds like a movie.
It's got this really symphonickind of.
Obviously there's a veryEastern music scale being used

(13:05):
and it just has a reallyhaunting feel that I absolutely
love.
I love the instrumentation, thesort of odd instruments in there
and I've just always loved itas what I think is a fantastic
closer to the record really.
So I'm a Dream Brother fan.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
Oh, one for each then .
Then okay, brett, you have thedeciding vote.
Sir, really I'm absolutelyflabbergasted.
But all right question couldeither of you hum or sing me

(13:48):
anything from dream brother,because I've listened to it a
hundred times and I can't retaina word of it absolutely, but as
we've discussed in this part,it's not really.
I don't want to start singingoh, I tried to get him in, I
tried to draw him in to sing,but I can really well I find I
find it really majestic.

Speaker 4 (14:04):
I also find it a real nice companion to the opening
track of the record, which has asimilar sort of ethereal.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
I do find it majestic when I listen to it now.
I mean, I've never even used toregister its existence back in
the day because I couldn't getthat far through the album.
And one of the issues I hadwith this album it was just too
big a meal for me, it was justtoo large to consume at all.
So I ended up listening to bitsand then I just either lost
interest or was just completelyoverwhelmed by it.
So I never even got as far.
It's not impossible that I'venever heard the last two tracks

(14:49):
on this album because I justnever, ever made it that far.
So I've had to really get toknow Eternal Life and
Dreambrother, and I'm reallyglad I have.
But I still couldn't hum you anote of Dreambrother.

Speaker 4 (14:59):
But I think, going back to the Forget Her situation
with so Real, if I think goingback to the Forget Her situation
with so Real, if we want totalk about that now because so
Real's not going through, Ipersonally think Forget Her is
probably one of the best songshe did.
Forget Her is a song that Ithink he brought in, was it?
He brought it into the sessions.
It was kind of half finishedand they kind of convinced him
to kind of put it down.

(15:20):
Ah okay, right.
And I think everyone's reactionquite instinctively was this is
amazing, we need to doublecheck.
We're recording this.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
Record label loved it .
They were loving it.
They loved it.
Yes, let's get this bad boy onthis debut album.
This is going to shift someunits.
And he said if I hear it again,I'll throw up.
Yes, he did.
That's his quote about it.

Speaker 4 (15:46):
But grow up.
Yes, he did.
That's his quote about it and Iwas, but for me, that's the
beauty of when you have that'sjust like having distance from
being the artist yourself.
Look, I get it, it's the artistis the artist.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
However, having perspective and a holistic, uh,
an overarching view, um, well,you've worked in ar and you've
worked as a producer, so if thiswere you, how would you
possibly convince him becauseyou really like this that you'd
really like?
Forget Her, don't you?

Speaker 4 (16:07):
I do.
I love it when he does it manytimes on this record, and even
if you listen to his posthumousrelease of the sketches for my
Sweetheart, the Drunk, where youhear everybody here wants you
and we could be so happytogether, baby, if we wanted to
be, or something.
It's called something like that.
But there's this amazing sortof what I guess that sort of

(16:32):
they can be called white soulrecords really, but they're just
.
They're just incredibly, um,poignant and powerful because of
the combination of his voice,his playing and his, his kind of
.
When he writes those type ofrecords, um, they just he does
something that not many peoplecan do.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
And Forget.

Speaker 4 (16:47):
Her is one of those.
It's up there with Love youShould have Come Over and Grace
for me as a single contender.
Really, I don't understand hisderision from it.
I understand that potentiallyit's because of the meaning and
he spared it because it wasabout an ex partner and oh, I
can tell you, I can give you Ireally you're perfect right, I,

(17:10):
I'm good.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
I would like to present to you two arguments
against this track.
The first one would be themichael bolton incident what's
that he was talking about?

Speaker 2 (17:18):
forget hearing, aren't we?

Speaker 1 (17:19):
yeah, forget, we're talking about forget her.
So the michael, do we knowabout the michael bolton?

Speaker 2 (17:22):
incident.
No do to do, tell I need to, Ithink go.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
I does god, you want to tell it no, okay the michael
bolton incident is essentially,uh, that michael bolton and, uh,
jeff buckley were reviewed bybadly by the same reviewer in
the same breath and werecompared together and he but the
reviewer was basically going ohyeah, there's just two white
blokes who were just ripping offblack music, trying to be all

(17:47):
soulful and whatever, and justjust like completely put them
both down as if they were bothtrying to achieve the same thing
.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
Wow to be compared to michael bolton is something,
isn't it?

Speaker 1 (17:56):
and this sent jeff buckley into a massive tailspin,
for I think for two days hejust sort of stayed in his room
and, just like, tried to dealwith this issue and eventually
came back out my first argument.
We'll come back to the michaelbolton stuff later perhaps, but
my first argument is there isonly only one song on this
entire record, as it now exists,that you could picture michael

(18:18):
bolton singing, and it's sure asfuck is forget her right that
that would be my first issue.
Um, uh, which, which?

Speaker 2 (18:26):
you've kind of ruined it for guy now.

Speaker 4 (18:27):
You know that, don't you I love that bolton oh yeah,
it's fine.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
I mean there's nothing.
I mean the thing is it is agood song.
But the second thing I mean I'mnot saying it's a bad song, my
second issue is I.
I mean I'm really the more I'vethought about it, the more
angry I've become on his behalf.
Right, all it would take tostop me being angry, because
Brett sent us a picture earlierin the week of his two copies of
Grace and and one one had 10tracks on it and the other had

(18:52):
11 tracks on it.
And as a listener, you would notknow if I, if I created a 10
track album and and said Iabsolutely categorically do not
want this track on it, and thenI died and you just went haha,
he's dead now.
Let's just stick it on.
No one will know neither wiser,and I mean I'd come down and
haunt you forever.
All it would take to mitigatethat would be to put the words

(19:12):
bonus track after it.
It doesn't have to say bonustrack colon, which Jeff hated
and didn't want you to listen toand said he'd throw up if he
didn't listen to, if he had tolisten to it ever again, etc.

Speaker 4 (19:23):
It doesn't have to say those things it just has to
say bonus track and then you geta little bit of context.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
To just chuck it on, aren't, because he's dead and he
can't tell us no anymore isunforgivable, absolutely
unforgivable.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
And I do think I'm actually not a big fan of Forget
Her.
It's quite good.
I do like it.
I quite like it.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
No, it's not my favourite.
I just have a moral issue withthis.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
No it is good, it's very good, amazing, like he was
an absolute blooming genius.
But I do really think dreambrother really works better to
end the album.
It does feel like, oh okay, Ican.
I can see what you're sayingwhen you this is the way to book
in the album.
It really works but, forget herit's slightly, slightly, the
only kind of bluesy one on therereally you can really hear.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
It's more conventionally bluesy than the
rest, so you see what's happenedhere is that brett is
congratulating himself for hiswonderful opening first round.
But as a result of his firstround, we have been on this
first round for weeks.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
Is it over yet.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
So let's get to round two, which is Lilac Wine versus
Corpus Christi Carol or, ifyou're, american Lilac Wine
which I want to be.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
next, I would like me a glass of Lilac Wine Lilac.
Wine I will not do a volte-faceover that.

Speaker 6 (20:32):
I can tell you right now.
I lost myself on a cool dampnight.
I gave myself in that mistylight, Was hypnotised by a
strange delight Under a lilactree.

Speaker 5 (20:56):
A falcon hath borne my maid away, and in that
orchard there was a home.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
Well, these are both covers.
He wrote he had seven originalsongs, an eighth of which he
refused to put on the album,much to the record company
Chagrin.
Is that correct?
Yes, yes, well done.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
But Chagrin would have also been acceptable,
chagrin, so that's okay.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
I mean, I should have said Chagrin, that would have
been good.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
Chagrin, chagrin.
Well done, yes.
Yeah, that would have been goodChagrin.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
Chagrin.
Yeah, I have to go with my headwhen I say that, obviously
imitating the Frenchpronunciation.
It's actually three covers, twoof which are Lilac Wine, which
he heard Nina Simone's version,loved it.
He's, you know, big Simone fan,big proto-feminist actually.
I think when you listen to whathe said he's brought up by his
mother, single mother.
We'll get to that.

(21:50):
We'll get to the story of jeffbuckley, who is in the
quarterfinals whoa, there we'llget to that.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
Calm down, calm yourself.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Whoa, it's on the way and it's versus corpus christi,
which is really nice.
It's a carol written bybenjamin britain.
I like both of these.
I know you have problem withcovers and albums.
We're going to get into that,aren't we well?

Speaker 1 (22:07):
there's, there's my, there's, of course, my second
issue at the time, which was wasthat I I, especially at that
time, you know, I I didn't knowhow to process this album
because it's like you know, I'mfine listening to linda ronstadt
.
This is just me, by the way,listeners, it's my issues, I
know they're my issues.
Yeah, I'm fine listening tolinda ronstadt because she's an
interpretive artist, so I'lllisten to her sing the phone
book and I'm happy.

(22:27):
I'm fine listening to jonimitchell, because I expected to
write all her own stuff and I'mlistening to her processing her
own emotions.
Put on jeff buckley, it's likethere's all these covers and I'm
like what is he?
Is he an interpretive artist?
Is he a singer, songwriter?
What is he?
Is he a metal head?
is he is he a jazz?
Guy, isn't it I was, I was, Iwas confused, as were the record

(22:47):
company, by what he was tryingto do.
And again I've learned why itis the way it is and we'll get
to that, uh, and I'm fine withit now, but at the time that was
the fact you've said at leastfour times you're fine with it
really sells it to us.
The lady protest death.

Speaker 4 (23:02):
Too much me thinks what do you think these guy, uh,
love them, so they, like you'vejust said, he's unique in that
artist where he is a bit ofeverything, but what these two
songs, I think, highlight ifyou've ever listened to, if you
haven't listened to it, go andseek out the Live at Sinead
double album, which is himessentially busking in this cafe

(23:24):
in the East Village of New York.
He would do two-hour sets,three-hour sets and he would
just play a Led Zeppelin songinto a Bob Dylan song, into a
Nusrat Fatiha Ali Khan song, andit is one of the most
remarkable listens you'll everhear.
There's a bit where he just hestops to go into a Nusrat Fatiha
Ali Khan song and to do thesong he went to an Urdu teacher,

(23:46):
learnt the language so he couldpronounce it properly and the
language so he could pronounceit properly, and he starts
singing.
He starts singing it and theystart laughing at him because
he's singing this to them agobbledygook kind of sound, but
he's really into it and by theend of it they are absolutely
blown away by the guy who's juston a seven minute freak out.
Essentially it's incredible.
It's what it's phenomenal andwhat I think makes me love jeff

(24:08):
buckley so much he is.
He doesn't really do coverversions.
In my opinion he does these.
He just.
They just melt and become hisand there's only.
I think him and Eva Cassidy inthe nineties were the two sort
of interpretive, sort of filtersthat filtered all this music
that you might not have heardand then represented it in a way

(24:30):
that, um, just reallyinfluenced a whole generation of
people, and these two songs are, but you couldn't be farther
apart.
Yeah, the most whitest thing andthe most sort of soulful thing
on the same record and they bothsort of sound like the right
same artist.
Yes, it's, one of them is veryhymnal and very ethereal, but
it's just it shows his voice sobeautifully.

(24:53):
I mean, I've never it got meinto a lot of classical music
and a lot of choral singing.

Speaker 2 (25:01):
Oh, nice yeah, I love a bit of choral singing.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
I agree with all of that.
I think that again, it'sbecause I understood his Live at
Sinead period and the fact thathe was being like this
incredible human jukebox ofinterpretation and sort of this
big soup of all these people hewas covering and then, but like
you say, sort of not covering,like making his own and just
being playful with them and justall of this stuff he was doing.

(25:24):
And and to have the threecovers we have on this makes so
much more sense to older me thanthe younger why is?

Speaker 4 (25:33):
that why?

Speaker 1 (25:33):
is it you, perhaps, who let's hope?
Uh, it makes much more sense toto me now because I I see the
context of it rather than goingoh, he just didn't write enough
songs, did he?
You know, he's obviously notgot, you know, any inspiration.
He's run out of tunes, any, andwhich, to an extent, is what
had happened.
But but you know, only in that,only in that his songwriting
was, was a nascent thing, um,and he was just finding his way,

(25:56):
and I think he would havedeveloped into an incredible
songwriter, um, and, and he wasjust, he was just beginning to
find that.
So I have no problem with thesecovers now because, exactly as
guy said, he turns them intosomething shimmering and totally
different great stuff, stuff.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
What are you voting for, langers?
I as much as I do love CorpusChristi.

Speaker 4 (26:16):
Carol Lilac Wine is the song that got me into Nina
Simone properly and I just love.
I just love it when he doesthat register and the sort of
smoky jazzy slow.
I just love the tune.
I think it's hypnotic andbeautiful.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
They're both great.
I really like Corpus Christi.
It reminds me of Coventry Carola bit, which is my favourite
carol after Vorderman, king andSteve.
Let's level it up a bit.
Well, I did think, hey, how dowe bring a trademark source of
whimsy and irreverence to a verysoulful, beautiful musician who

(26:57):
died at the age of 30?
Spoiler alert sorry if youdidn't know that listeners.
Jeff Buckley sadly passed awayat the age of 30.
So really, what happens whenyou listen to this album is
obviously you're very presentwith the idea that obviously he
died very, very young and that'sobviously very sad and the
music is very heartfelt andemotional.
So it kind of it's in your mind, isn't it?

(27:21):
Also, because he's just sospectacularly good, your, your
jaw drops the floor and it waslike shit, what else could you
have done?
You know that, I think, is kindof always present to some
extent it's very hard todecontextualize it from what you
know happened absolutely yeah,so that's that's.
That's a beautiful way ofputting it I'm gonna vote.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
Well, you voted one each.
From what?
From my understanding of it um,yes, I'll vote.
Corpus christi, carol, yeah allright, I'm gonna go lilac wine.
There's not a lot in it.
I'm gonna going to go LilacWine because I think for me,
benjamin Britten, it is ratherbeautiful.
But I think Benjamin Brittenmight be an eclecticism too far
here and I think Nina Simone is.
You know, there's eclectic andthere's.

(28:02):
I'm really trying to prove thepoint about how eclectic I am,
which is how I sort of took itat at the time.
Much less so now, as I saidbefore.
But I think Lilac Wine pips it,just because Nina Simone makes
more sense here.
Right, so we're into thequarterfinals, quarterfinals.
So the first quarterfinal is,for the first time, a mojo, a
pin, whatever the flip thatmeans against.

(28:25):
For the second time, because itcame through Dream Brother, I'm
lying in my bed.

Speaker 6 (28:38):
The blanket is warm.
This body will, as it camethrough.

Speaker 5 (28:52):
Dream Brother, I feel afraid and I call your name.
I love your voice and yourdancing say I hear your words
and I know your pain, your headin your hands and a kiss on the
lips of another.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
First track versus last track.
First track versus last track.
Hey, who did this draw?
Liking them apples.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
Oh.
Book ending, Hashtag bookending, oh God it's smooth as
fuck.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
So just a bit about Jeff Buckley before we get into
the quarterfinals, because we'regetting into the meat of it now
, aren't we?
We're getting into some verystrong songs and all very
interesting.
So he was like he is the son ofTim Buckley and I believe he
only met him once in his life.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yep, or if so he said he only met him really once
yeah, and then he stayed withhim for a few days, but he
didn't get much out of him, sothey had they had zero
relationship yeah, zero anddidn't tim write a song about
him called not not your there's.
There was a song called I didn'twant.
I didn't want to be yourmountain it's actually a very
good song.
Uh, it's a lovely, lovely song.

(30:10):
I did listen to it on the backof this, but it was kind of sort
of saying to the mother I justhad sex with you.
I didn't ask to be yourmountain, I think it was.
I just had sex with you.
I didn't buy into any of thisother having a kid stuff.
So there's that.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
So he has zero relationship with his dad, even
though his dad is an amazingkind of folk jazz musician, but
completely independent of that,and also his dad dies very young
.
Completely independent of that,jeff buckley develops into this
incredible musician.
He discovers a guitar at theage of five in his grandma's
closet.
He decides at the age of fivehe wants to be a professional
musician.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
His stepfather hang on first record.
What was the record he grew upon?

Speaker 2 (30:55):
Physical Graffiti.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
Physical Graffiti Led Zeppelin.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
Absolutely right, well done, he loves Led Zepp
massive Zepp fan, which youdon't initially hear when you
first listen to Zepp and thinkof Jeff Buckley.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
But it's true, once you know, you don't notice it.
It's really interesting.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
The guitars are distorted, apart from at the end
there's no fuzz pedal, so hediscovers he wants to be a
musician.
He then goes to music collegeat 19.
He then lives in Los Angeles,works in a hotel for about 5
years in loads of bands, doesbacking vocals in a band.
He's the backing vocalist in aband called wild blue yonder.
Can you believe you got thisguy?

Speaker 1 (31:34):
I just stick him on backing vocals I mean, it's
incredible and he's a massivemetal head as well, like metal
bands, yeah, yeah what's hisname at this point?
His name at this point isscotty moore, scotty's head,
isn't it scotty moore head,scotty moore, scotty, scotty
moorehead, isn't it scotty?
Moorehead, scotty moorehead,yes scotty moorehead, you're
right, scotty moorehead, um, andhe, yeah, so then.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
But then so he's doing that, he's loving being a
musician, playing open mics allthe time, playing where he can,
just developing all the time inloads of different ways.
And then in 1991 there's atribute for tim buckley and he's
like, oh, I should do that.
And then he decides he's goingto go to pay his respects and he

(32:19):
plays it and obviously he blowseveryone away and this singular
event is so pivotal in his lifebecause obviously then he gets
record label interest, he getsthe residency at the cafe you
were mentioning earlier, guy,where he was yeah yeah, um, and
he meets rebecca, um, rebeccamoore, his girlfriend, who

(32:42):
inspires a lot of this, thisalbum grace, and she's also an
artist and musician herself.
So they live together in newyork for a bit, so that one
single event he decides to dobecause he wants to pay respects
to tim buckley, who was neverthere for him in his life,
explodes his life and then,obviously, once he gets that
residency, moves in york, hebecomes everyone's after him so

(33:03):
his dad, his dad, weirdly, um,yeah, it ends up starting his uh
posthumously starting hiscareer, in the same way that
jeff buckley after his death,sends a lot of people back to
tim buckley's records.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
So it's a very strange thing and it's mad and
he chooses the surname buckley,but then he really resents.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
I've got another story I'll tell you later
because I have wanged on here.
I do apologize, but he, he kindof resents.
You know obviously thatreference.
Oh, it's tim, tim Buckley's son.
You know obviously, because ifyou hear that and see those two
albums they go oh, that's nice,father and son, they must have
sat him on his knee and taughthim guitar.
Nope nada, no, nothing at all soyeah, there we go, and along

(33:45):
the way he picks up loads ofinfluences.
He's a complete sponge for allmusic and one of those
influences is, as guy saidearlier, as noserat fatty ellie
khan um, who is awesome and I Idid credible.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
If you've not heard him, I I had heard him before uh
on a track on I think it wasthe dead man walking soundtrack,
where he collaborated on twotracks with uh, eddie vedder
right so I was I was aware.
I was aware of him, uh, throughthose tracks, but I'd forgotten
how completely awesome he isbecause he is Unbelievable voice
, a voice like a velvet fire.

(34:16):
What is he?
He says on.
Shinnok.
He says, this guy's my Elvis.

Speaker 4 (34:19):
Oh, wow, that's so cool, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
So, moving through these songs, we've talked about
Dreambrother a bit already, butMojo Pen, again, one of my other
issues is is that it yes, therewere three covers, but it
wasn't three covers and as sortof as you implied earlier sort
of seven of his songs?
I think there are like two,literally two songs on the album
that are written by jeffbuckley.
It's like the others are allco-writes.

(34:44):
That is so true mojo pin andgrace were both brought with him
from the previous band Gods andMonsters, which was Gary Lucas,
Gary Lucas' band yes.
And Gary Lucas wrote all of themusic for both of those songs
and sort of gave it to GeoffBuckley and then Geoff Buckley
sort of stuck the stuff over thetop and again, you know, part

(35:06):
of the issue I think I had atthe time as I say again, I don't
have it now but was people arelike oh, jeff Buckley writes
such great songs.
And I'm like these are the samepeople that are going oh, you
can't say Robbie Williams is asongwriter.
You know, guy Chambers writesall the music and then just
gives it to him and he justwrites some lyrics and a melody
over the top and I'm like whyare you complaining about that?
And then going Jeff Buck,that's literally just what

(35:27):
happens with these songs, manyof these songs from Grace, and
it's always so amazing.
It's like, is that what you'reactually saying?

Speaker 2 (35:36):
There's a lot of crossover chat with Robbie
Williams and Geoff Buckley onthe forums.
I find that the chat groups Igo on whenever I bring up Robbie
, I get Geoff chat and wheneverI bring up.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
Geoff, I get Robbie chat.
They're pretty much synonymous.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, it's true, but you're absolutely right, like
there's, there's, I thinkthere's any you're right,
there's only two songs, aren'tthere?
There are three songs that areso solely jeff buckley's, yeah,
which are eternal life, um, lastgoodbye, and a lover you should
have come over, yeah, andthat's why it's an eclectic,
even more eclectic album.
Obviously, virtuosity makes itso, but there's a lot of

(36:08):
different writers on this.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
There's a lot, which I had a problem with.
There's no way around that.
I found that problematic.

Speaker 4 (36:15):
Do you still find it problematic Because I wasn't
sure?

Speaker 1 (36:20):
No, I don't now because I understand, as I say,
I understand the story now and Iunderstand that when they
signed him, they said we don'tknow who we're signing or what
we're signing here.
We're signing it because he'sdoing this shinae stuff and and
and bigger and bigger peoplecame to see him and said we've
got to sign this guy.
And when they signed him, itwas a completely unusual signing

(36:40):
, because when you sign someone,you go we've signed you on the
back of your demo tape, we'vesigned you on the back of these
songs.
And they were just signing himon the back of him.
And there's the guy in one ofthe documentaries said we didn't
know what we were going to get.
We didn't know if we're goingto get the jeff buckley big band
or, you know, could be jeffbuckley hip-hop album.
We didn't know what we weregoing to get.
Um, because, because he, wewere signing him on the back of

(37:03):
his name and this buzz and andthese and this voice and and.
So it wasn't a fully formedpackage.
And so what it is is thisincredible mixture of original
material and original musicthat's been given to him and
he's put things on top of andcovers, and that all makes sense
in the context I now understand.
At the time I just thought hecouldn't get his shit together

(37:24):
to write enough songs, which iswhat you think when you're 21
and a bit of a dick.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
Right, what are we voting for?
I'm going to go for mojo pin uhme too.

Speaker 4 (37:34):
Okay, well, I I'm just going back to your point.
I just on the songwriting, forI I think if someone gives you
the music and you write somewords and lyrics over, I think
that is very much still writingthe song.
I agree, I do agree.
I just wanted to state that forthe record, I'm gonna vote for
dream brother because I still Imojo pin, I love but dream
brother, I think, just as it'sgoing out, I'll give it some

(37:55):
more, some more praise before itgets kicked out the door, but
no, mojo pins going through.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
But before we say goodbye to dream brother, I just
want to talk.
We haven't talked lyrics at allyet, and I think one of the
things is, you can say what youwant about him as a singer or an
interpretive singer, but he isa singer in the jagger mold, not
in the sinatra mold, by which Imean he is not foregrounding
lyrics by any means.
You know he's doing that.
He's taking more the jaggerapproach of you know, there are

(38:20):
definitely lyrics here, butyou're going to have to dig if
you want to hear them.
Um, and and so inevitably, mebeing me, I did some digging and
I would say that dream brothereasily contains the most on the
nose lyric on the whole album.
Uh, do you know the story ofwhat the song's about?
no, tell me okay, so thebasically a friend of his had

(38:40):
got a girl pregnant and heessentially wanted to uh warn
said friend against making someof the mistakes that perhaps
Jeff's father had made.
And there and there is a lyricwhich is as on the nose once you
know that, as it could possiblybe.
He says don't be like the onewho made me so old, don't be

(39:02):
like the one who left behind hisname, because they're, they're
waiting for you, like I waitedfor mine and nobody ever came.
And and it's like that's on thenose and you don't hear it
because it's all in the middleof all this.
Jeff Buckley you know, mercurialsort of sound that's going on,
but if you look it up and youknow what it's about.
It's like whoa, that is direct.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
And you wouldn't know , because the lyrics are not in
the liner notes either, whichyou'd usually expect in an IT CD
You'd get the lyrics.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
Right, so Mojo Pen goes through, which takes us to
the next quarterfinal, which isEternal Life for the first time,
versus Lover.
You really should have comeover and had some nookie with me
.

Speaker 5 (39:46):
Racist Iron man.
What have you done, man?
You made a killer of your ownbloodstone.
Ground my fear.
You're a king at the point of agun.

(40:08):
At the point of a gun.
All I want to do To just breakfree and run.
Sometimes a man gets carriedaway.
He feels like he should behaving his fun, but much too

(40:34):
blind to see the damage he'sdone.
Sometimes a man must wait tofind a Billy who has no one.

Speaker 4 (40:53):
So I wait for you Two very different 100% Jeff
Buckley songs.
Right, 100% Jeff Buckley yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
Oh you see what Brett was doing there with the straw.

Speaker 4 (41:04):
Yes, exactly, he's the architect of some proper
producing going on here.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
I mean, had it been left to me, it would have been
even better.
Of course, Of course.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
Well, we'd have had either six quarter finalists or
my particular favourite is whenyou managed to contrive five
semi-finalists, which is fuckingamazing.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
Yeah, I mean in my defence A I haven't done it for
a while and B sports.
He's an afric, he doesn't playby the rules and maths.

Speaker 2 (41:29):
These are very much blind spots for me.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
These were the original drafts of the draw that
Steve sent us and we had topoint out I do realise that in
the word quarter ofquarterfinals there is some
implication of number there thatI perhaps should have taken
into account, but that's okay.
Anyway, thanks for doing thedraw, brett.
That's what I'm trying to getto Tell us about Eternal Life
and Love.
You Should have Come Over.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
I love both of them and they're both.
Yeah, they're both solosongwriters from him, but
they're both incrediblydifferent.
The vibe I mean they're onlythey're three songs apart on the
album.
They've got Corpus Christi inthe middle and they're so
different.
I mean what a different threesongs you've got there.
I love.
I mean Love.

(42:08):
You Should have Come coffee.
Everything's just amazing thefeel on that.
And then Eternal Life is.
I love it.
It's so heavy.
It's when he gets into you cantell he's liked punk, you can
tell he likes heavy metal onthis, because that's a song you
can really hear it.
To me, eternal Life is the most90s sounding song.
It's the most.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
It's the most.
Zeppelin one, easily, it's themost of its era, isn't it?
Do you think the?

Speaker 4 (42:31):
intro sounds a little bit like the Red Hot Chili
Peppers.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
Yeah, oh, the bass.
The bass is so foregrounded onEternal Life, it's so heavy.

Speaker 4 (42:40):
We haven't talked about lyrics properly, like
Steve just said, but on Love youShould have Come Over.
That's the one I'm going tovote for, because I think it
sounds like a song that's beenaround since 1960-something.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
It is timeless.

Speaker 4 (42:53):
The lyrics on it are when a lyric really just works
with a voice and a melody andyou just get swept away with it.
It just creates a mood and youjust go with it.
That's what this song is to me.
For someone in their early 20sto write a song like that, I'm
quite astounded by, and I thinkthat's why he works so well as

(43:14):
an artist amongst all theseother legends and these other
covers, because he can writesongs like this that go in
between them and then you'relike oh yeah, that goes between
whatever Lilac Wine and Corpus.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
Christi characters.

Speaker 4 (43:26):
It's that good.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
It's a definition of bittersweet, isn't it?
It's fantastic and a bit of thecrescendo of it.

Speaker 4 (43:32):
it builds and builds, and the little choir he does at
the end of it, where he doesthis faux gospel choir.
It just builds and builds andhis little ad-libs and his
little ad-libs.
No his big ad-libs even.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
Little or big, they're all good.
All his ads are good.
I'm going to vote for EternalLife and give Steve a problem
because he's got to choose one.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
Well, I'm going to begrudgingly vote for Eternal
Life.
What Are you mad?
Well, the thing about Love youShould have Come Over is that I
I didn't know Eternal Lifebefore, so it's really fresh to
me and I always found Love youShould have Come Over to.
It's like I found it felt likeit was being conventional and

(44:17):
then did unconventional thingswith the structure.
That I found irritating becauseit sounded so conventional In
something like so Real.
It was being so unconventional.
From the beginning I was like,yes, get more jazz, I want this,
but with Love you anyway.
But I have to say the reasonI'm begrudging you voting for
eternal life.
I say begrudgingly because evenI really like it.
I love its heaviness, I lovethe foregrounded bass.

(44:39):
Shit on me.
There are some points off forsome of these lyrics.
Here you are.
These are, without fail, and Imean, easily the worst lyrics on
this album.
We're talking sixth form poetry.
Gone rogue.
Are you ready?
Here we go racist.
Every man.
You've made a killer of yourunborn son.
All I want to do is love.

(45:02):
Everyone points off there, jeff, but even that's not even a as
bad as this.
You ready for this?
This is great.
There's no time for hatred,only questions.
Here are the questions, gents.
What is love?
Where is happiness?
What is life?
Where is peace, um?

Speaker 4 (45:20):
no good questions no no no, no, if you read them out
then they sound like that, butwhen he sings them, it it works.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
It's like mother of god.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
That's sixth form poetry, I think well, he was 20,
he was 26 when he wrote it.
I mean I love it.
I that's, you know, andeveryone who would have listened
to it would have been aboutthat age probably, so they'd
have identified.
I mean I just, yeah, what can Isay, steve, it's got a great
big, fat bass sound, so I loveit so, yeah, yes, I know, I know
that you were pouring over thelyrics, as you always do well,
he said it was about yeah, itwas about um a reaction to kind

(45:52):
of you know, faceless men behinddesks and masks kind of racist
angry, men I think ruining otherpeople's lives.
Yeah, that on the basis of ofthings like income, color class,
religious beliefs.
You know he, that was what hewas trying to get to with that,
um, but you voted for it whichis hang on, hang on.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
Can you imagine if you went to any any of us went
to like a, an open mic night oran acoustic night, and sang a
song with the lyric racist,angry men.
What have you done?
They throw fruit at you.
They throw fruit at you.
Oh, there are so many questions.
What is peace?
What is life?

Speaker 2 (46:30):
fuck off dude, he did do a lot of open mics.
He played a lot, a lot of andyou've done a lot of open mics
steve, I have tell me about openmics.
I've not done many guy.
Have you ever done an open mic?
I couldn't think of anythingworse yeah for myself.

Speaker 4 (46:45):
Terrifying places.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
I haven't got the stomach for it no, I mean, it's
basically just drunk peoplegetting drunker and talking.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
Uh, what you're doing isn't it, but not when he would
have played.
I mean, he would have justsilenced her, wouldn't he In?

Speaker 1 (46:56):
fairness.
I mean, you saw me back in theday when the style I developed
to shut them up.
As far as I was concerned, Ihad two options, which was shout
at everybody and lose my temper, which wasn't really an option
or be the loud, loudest, mostaggressive thing in the room

(47:16):
that they couldn't avoid lookingat.
So I used to come off stagebleeding, uh, with a, with a
broken vocal cords, because Iwas shouting and screaming and
it was.
It was awful, I mean, I wasterrible, but I did get them to
shush and I suspect, the pointbeing that I suspect that, um,
jeff Buckley was doing somethingsimilar in that, you know, he
knew damn well that people weregoing to talk and it's like well
, this is great if they're justhere to drink coffee and chat.

(47:38):
It's a great test to see ifthis material is any good, if I
can hold their attention,because that's what open mics
are all about he loved it.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
He actually, uh, in the year before before he passed
away, he went back on a secrettour doing unannounced open mics
or small coffee shop gigs, andhe loved them because it took
away the pressure.
He felt the pressure of beingthis.
You know, the new greatsinger-songwriter.

(48:06):
It's like when comedians dothat.
He loved them because he knewhe could fail.
He said you know you can eitherentertain or irritate them, but
you know there's noexpectations when you go in like
that and it's great.
He loved that.
He was fearless.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
He's absolutely fearless yeah, but that's what.
That's what comedians do.
Big, you know, big comedianswill go and play small venues to
try out jokes, to see if peoplelaugh or not, and that that's
the way to develop the material.
Musicians don't tend to do that.
Once they're at stadium level,they'll play stadiums.
They're not going to play tinytheatres, because it doesn't
work like that.
Right, let's move this on,because we're going very slowly.

(48:43):
That's because Geoff's aninteresting chap and there's
lots to talk about.
So the third quarterfinal isand this is going to be easily
the hardest for me is for thefirst to fly on their way.

Speaker 5 (49:25):
Oh, it's my time coming.
I'm not afraid.
Afraid to die.
My fate and voice is a fire.
This is our last goodbye.

(49:51):
I hate to feel the love betweenus die, but it's over.
I'll just hear this and thenI'll go.
You gave me more to live for,more than you'll ever know.

(50:26):
More than you'll ever know, guy, come on.

Speaker 4 (50:29):
Why did we have to do this?

Speaker 2 (50:31):
You're the one who suggested it.

Speaker 4 (50:33):
No, but not the album .
This.
These are, like I mean, alongwith Love.
You Should have Come Over.
These are my three favouritesongs on the record, so you
basically have only one left.
I'm pissed because one of myfavourites is gone and now I'm
going to lose another one, andwe're not even in the same
bloody finals OK.

(50:54):
Yes, come on, I think these are.
Yeah, this whole album is.
The sound of these songs onthis album, and these two in
particular, like we said, isincredibly 90s.
It has that dynamic sort of.
It's a beautiful kind of reverb, sort of soaked vocal.
The chimey guitar, the drumshave this very clean, crisp,

(51:17):
clinical, and you know that'sAndy Wallace who is the producer
of this record, but also mixed,nevermind by Nirvana, and has
mixed many records and producedsome as well.
He's just got a very technicalability to make whatever it is
in the room sort of gel and, Ithink, sit and sound full.
Even though this album soundsvery sparse and kind of like

(51:38):
it's in a big cathedral, it hasthis really reverb, tastic, um,
decay to every every sound and areal spatial feel to it.
Um, and these two are the sortof, maybe sort of two of the
bigger fully formed pop.
You know productions, perhaps,along with lovely, you should

(51:58):
have come over in terms of.
You know, last goodbye's gotamazing string arrangements on
it and grace just has thisincredible sort of I don't even
what.
They're just kind of chordsthat you haven't quite really
heard before together, but theystill sound majestic and
beautiful and lovely.
I mean, I'm not going to voteyet because I'm still livid
about these being up againsteach other who did this draw?

Speaker 2 (52:19):
It's rubbish.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
Yeah, it is Well my issue here.
I mean, I think these are bothwonderful.
I love the fact that LastGoodbye he's playing a slide on
a 12 string.
You shouldn't do that.
No one plays that sound at thebeginning.
It's only because I watched oneof the documentaries and I saw
him.
I'm like he's playing a slideon a 12 string.
Rickenbacker.
That's really not what youshould do.

(52:42):
Oh, that's that sound at thebeginning of Last Goodbye
Brilliant.
Obviously, under normalcircumstances, I would vote Last
Goodbye because that is a songhe properly wrote on his own,
and a lot of the stuff that Ilove about grace is those
incredible guitar riffs, uh,which are gary lucas.
However, I have to vote forgrace, uh, because, a I need to
get over myself with the wholeoriginal music thing sometimes

(53:04):
and b it's just justunassailably magnificent.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
So grace gets my vote I love both of them as well.
So hard, it's so hard to choose.
Um, I'm gonna vote for lastgoodbye because it's just the
most elegant, beautiful way.
That's wonderful it's trueartistry to say basically,
basically, he's dumping someone.
Let's, yeah, make no bones,yeah, that's what's so great
about him.
He's like he's sent some answer.

(53:28):
I mean, he, he is breaking upwith someone and it could be
like I'm gonna dump you or slingyour hook and it's just the
most beautiful romantic way ofsaying goodbye.
It's like the, the perfect wayto break up with someone and
still make them feel amazing,like it's just extraordinary.
How do you do that?

Speaker 1 (53:46):
and he's how do we know he's not being broken up
with?
Is that clear in the lyric?

Speaker 2 (53:48):
I think.
I think it's.
He is the protagonist in it, Ithink yeah, he says, but it's
over it's very much from hisperspective.

Speaker 4 (53:56):
I hate to be the one to say this or whatever it is I
hate.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
Yeah, oh, that's fine , I think, if we're going to
analyze it with a legal finetooth kind of no, I just don't
have the lyric in front of me.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
I don't remember the specifics, so I'm not to
question you.
I won't question you I think hedoes.

Speaker 2 (54:10):
Yeah, I think he does um, but like every.

Speaker 4 (54:13):
Buckley song.
It kind of flips betweenpersonal perspective and sort of
a poetic kind of.
Yeah.
The state of a relationshipbroadly speaking as well.
It kind of goes back and forth.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
It's all in the detail, isn't it?
The message or the overarchingthings you want to say are just
that.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
You know, know, if you want to write a story, it's
all in how you detail it.
It's also also that, also thebass line, also the bass line.
That is true, that bass line isamazing.

Speaker 4 (54:43):
I really want to sing it now to prove the food oh,
I've given into it.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
I've given into it.
We've we've not sung many ofthe risks on this album because
they're so blooming complex.
It's just too hard.
It's just too hard.
It's just too hard to eithersing the riff or sing the vocal.
I'd like you now Brett quicklysing at least one of the riffs
from Grace.
I can't, that's too muchpressure.

Speaker 4 (55:04):
You little Irish jig.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
How do you sing the intro to Grace?
It's impossible.
No, it's not what are youvoting for?
Brett, I have just voted andthen spent two minutes
explaining what I voted forwhich was.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
Last.
Goodbye and you were too busymaking a joke about it.
I'm sorry.
Who are we waiting for then?

Speaker 2 (55:22):
Wait for me, wait for me.
Oh, ok, sorry.

Speaker 1 (55:25):
OK, let's cut that one out.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
No, keep that in the book Guy shush.

Speaker 1 (55:28):
Guy, what are you voting for?

Speaker 4 (55:31):
I'm going to talk quickly about Grace before I
vote for Last Goodbye.
No no, no, no, no, there we go.
There's some karma for you Forvoting out a number you should
have come over so this is likethe hardest.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
So what you're saying is that you want to vote for
Grace.
You're just like punishing mefor not voting for Grace?

Speaker 4 (55:50):
No, no, I'm not.
So morally you're saying is thatyou want to vote for grace.
You're just like punishing mefor not voting.
No, no, I'm not so morally,grace.
Morally, grace is still goingthrough because you're being
petty.
I would argue that this is thebest.
Uh tracks two and three of analbum from the 90s, like the
fact, the fact that they're backto back um and fighting talk.
I think these two songs are soinfluential from music and bands
that came after or discoveredBuckley, like we all did, sort

(56:14):
of turn of the millennia orafter his death.
So you've got Radiohead famouslyseeing him in 94 and hearing
his falsetto and realising thatTom York realises he can sing
falsetto and that's not a badthing and he goes on to do a lot
of that on the bends and Ithink a lot of his singing style
beyond that is yeah it's eitherneil young or it's jeff buckley
, really yeah they're the twoinfluences muse for example yeah

(56:37):
who actually now owns histelecaster from this album he
bought it oh yeah, I saw apicture of him with that.
What's that about?
So, again, you, they'reincredible similarities, and
some would say too close attimes, between his styling and
and Jeff Buckley.
But then the amount of artiststhat came out and have just it's
weird.

(56:57):
I've never experienced it.
It's probably maybe the onlyone in my lifetime where there's
been such a.
I guess Cobain is the other one, but there is only they're the
two artists that have just, likeI say, there's just been this
axis of they created everythingthat I loved sort of post their
existence because, I was of anage where I kind of became a

(57:17):
teenager at the back end oftheir lives, uh, and hugely
influential yeah, and grace isthat song that, when you
discover it, you're like what isthis?
this is symphonic, this isbeautiful, this is choral, this
is soulful.
This is again guitar playingand, like we talked about the
riffs, you can't understand thatit's so good so hard to play
and he you know, he loves aweird tuning.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
He loves he, just he's a real just incredible yeah
, he seems to hear it and justmake the instrument do what he
wants it to do, which isfantastic can I just ask you the
question because myunderstanding was that, uh,
grace was in open g tuning, butI saw um an interview with jimmy
page, who said that one of thethings that impressed him so

(58:00):
much.
He said oh, I thought I thoughtall these were in open tuning
because they're so interestingand weird, uh, like I would have
done it.
And then I I discovered he wasplaying everything in standard
tuning and I was even moreimpressed.

Speaker 4 (58:09):
I think it's in drop d, I think yeah, that's what I
heard in it which is not reallyno, it's not much of a weird
tune, but uh, yeah, and and lastgoodbye, I think is in open g
or a variation of g like, okay,I always thought he was an open
tuning guy.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
It was just because jimmy page said he wasn't.

Speaker 4 (58:26):
I was like, oh okay, I'll listen to jimmy yeah but it
, like you say, that slideguitar sort of sonic at the
start of Last Goodbye and thebass line and then the strings,
it just.
And then, like every Buckleysong, there's always a bit of
ugliness in it, there's a bit oftension, there's a bit of
gnarliness, like you said.
The zep kind of comes throughand both of these songs have it
in different ways.
But then it relieves, the stormpasses and you get this soaring

(58:50):
part of the song.
They're just two phenomenalsongs.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
Oh, that bit sorry.
Just to talk about soaring,there's that incredible did you
believe this would happen to me?
Line where I can't think I'vejust sung another bit.
But there's that one line italways used to get me the hairs
would stand up on my arms.

Speaker 4 (59:11):
Oh, the mid-late of Last Goodbye, yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
Yes, it's incredible.
It's incredible.

Speaker 4 (59:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that's I mean, it's a songthat I think sneaks up on you
when you first get into Buckley.
You're all about Grace, butthen I think Last Goodbye for me
is the one that just gets to mein different ways beyond the
first initial hit.
Oh, it's incredible.
Okay, well, last goodbye goesthrough.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
I'm absolutely mortified.
So just very briefly, grace wasum.
He described as a, as a littleprayer, um, which was, uh, about
how he wasn't afraid, or you,you, someone who wasn't afraid
to die because they had.
I've got the quote.

Speaker 2 (59:49):
It's about not feeling bad about your own
mortality when you have truelove.
It was inspired by sayinggoodbye to his girlfriend at an
airport, which I can empathizewith, those little, small
moments of heartbreak.
You know that that type ofthing and that inspired him to
write this and to explore.
I think that was rebecca mooreactually would have been.
You know his love for her andand he had very intense romantic

(01:00:12):
relationships.

Speaker 4 (01:00:13):
Yeah, he's an intense guy.
I'm getting that.
You do get that, don't you?
And that distorted vocal bit inGrace as well, where it kind of
just goes on like a megaphonesound.
Again there's little hints ofdifferent weird quirky
production things all over thisrecord, but really clever and
let's not deny it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
He was an incredible musician of incredible
versatility and power and Iwould imagine you know most
ladies would have found him veryattractive because he looks a
bit like james dean, doesn't aswell, he's like matt, yeah but
he looks like he should havebeen in beverly hills 90210 at
the time you know, and that wasthe one of the other things that
he.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
There was always this tension, it would seem, between
do I, you know, I've changed myname to buckley, yeah, but I
also want to push back againstthe buckley thing yeah I, I
really want to be an independentweird artist.
But I also want to, but I'vesigned to columbia because bob
dylan's on it and springsteen'son it for a million dollars and

(01:01:06):
there's a tension there.
And there was a tension with I'm.
I'm obviously very, veryattractive, but I want people to
take my music seriously and notcome to see me because I'm
attractive.
There were all these, all thesesort of tensions that he was um
pushing back against, in thesame way that I think there's a
tension between him peoplesaying, oh, you know, he's such
a romantic and he was such thisand that and and actually he was

(01:01:28):
very prosaic in a lot of ways.
He was just a bloic in a lot ofways.
He was just a bloke in a lot ofways.
I watched a thing where he wasjust walking around the streets
of Paris chatting to someone andit was really interesting
because you know, they're likeoh, do you take any drugs, jeff?
And he's like oh, yeah, I drinkmy ass off, but I don't take
drugs generally.
No, I do smoke a lot of weedthough.

(01:01:48):
He's like, do you not takeanything else?
And he's like oh, I don't likecocaine, I don't like cocaine at
all.
Yeah, because when you, whenyou, take cocaine, you all you
want to do is fuck, but yourdick doesn't work, which seems
like a contradiction to me andit's just like it.
Just, it was like every youknow, with every step he was
becoming, you know, less andless of a sort of demigod and
more and more of just a blokesaying some slightly off-colour

(01:02:09):
things about women and drugs,and it was like OK, fair enough.
Actually, in some ways, I'mfine with that, it's OK.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
He wasn't totally immortal and godlike he was an
actual human being.
He was just a bloke and that'swhy he was an amazing musician,
but I can imagine especially ashe turned up to so many small
venues as well just the stardusthe must have.
He would have just had such animpact on so many people,
whether he was famous or not.
He would have just been anincredibly memorable person to

(01:02:37):
have interacted with right.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
Finally, for the first time, we're still in the
quarterfinals.
This is epic, sorry folks.
Um in the or or uh, you'rewelcome if you're enjoying the
length of this episode.
So, finally, for the very firsttime, a little chap you might
have heard of, called Hallelujahversus Lilac Wine.
I think I can see how this isgoing to go.

Speaker 5 (01:03:15):
I heard there was a secret chord that David played
and it pleased the Lord.
But you don't really care formusic, do you?
Well, it goes like this thefourth, the fifth, the minor
fall and the major lift, thebaffled king composing

(01:03:39):
Hallelujah.
Hallelujah, hallelujah,hallelujah, hallelujah,
hallelujah.
That white is sweet and hurtinglike my love.

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
Two covers still, but this cover is so famous,
hallelujah, it kind of dominatesthe album actually in a way
that when you listen to it againand again, you really get into
it.
It almost sticks out a bit likea sore album, actually, in a
way that when you listen to itagain and again, you really get
into it.
It almost sticks out a bit likea sore thumb, doesn't it, in a
way?

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
Oh, yes, it does.

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
Yeah, I mean, it's had a very storied past, this
song.
It's an amazing song, beautiful, and his version is utterly
beautiful.
I love it.
It's an incredible song and hejust produces an incredible
vocal and arrangement on it.
It's wonderful.
And this song has gone fromstrength to strength, hasn't it?
I mean, guy, you must have someopinion on this.

(01:04:58):
You might have even worked onit at some point.

Speaker 4 (01:05:02):
I've brought so many versions of it.
Yeah, I don't think itnecessarily sticks out as such
on the record.
I actually think it blends inbeautifully.
I think, post this album comingout and it becoming what it
became um, which is out of hiscontrol.
It it is.
You know.
You look on streaming services.
I'm sure it's yes, the mostobvious.

Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
Single is what I mean .

Speaker 4 (01:05:21):
It just posts out in that sense um, but again it goes
back to his covers and his uh,you know, you look at famous
cover versions that surpass theoriginal and this is this is
probably in the top three of alltime.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
Oh, it's 100%.

Speaker 4 (01:05:37):
Yeah, you've taken a lesser known well to me and to,
I think, many, many people, alesser known, Leonard Cohen.

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
Oh God, yeah.
It came out in a Leonard Cohenalbum that they'd almost
rejected, that they then didn'tpromote.
Nobody listened to it, nobodybought it.

Speaker 4 (01:05:52):
Yeah, yeah, it's like In my career.
I mean it was part of theresurgence around that time when
it had its resurgence and itgot covered by everybody.
It got played at everyone'swedding.
It got played on it's on Shrek.
Mauriam things.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
Shrek was a big one, yeah, but this is the
interesting thing about thissong, which?
But this is the interestingthing about this song, which is
that he's not really coveringthe original.
No, it's the John Cale version.
He's covering the John Caleversion.
There's a whole documentary anda book just about the song,
because the song is such a thing.
The original is a lot of fun,but it is like a 1984

(01:06:27):
synthesiser, very strangely,very Leonard Cohen-ly sung song.
And and had it not been forjohn kale, um, I don't think
that, uh, it would have beenpicked up by buckley.

Speaker 4 (01:06:41):
And had it not been for buckley, it wouldn't have
been picked up by everybody ever, and that, for me, is one of
the beautiful reasons for coverversions being so valid in
society and on records, becausenot only do people discover that
songs can go on to becomethings, it's amazing just how
words on a piece of paper can beinterpreted different ways by
different types of people.
And for some people it becomesamazing, like Louis Luet, for

(01:07:03):
example.
There's hundreds of covers ofthat, but the Kingsman is the
version you know, becausethere's something about their
version, something about it.
Yeah, for the record, I docompletely accept that version.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
You know, because there's something about their
version, something about it,yeah um for the record for the
record.
I, I do completely accept thatand and I also completely accept
that this is one of the mostbrilliant.
I think this, I mean, this isone of those times when, uh,
this, this is clearly thedefinitive version um, I, I
don't think anybody has toppedthis and there is even even in

(01:07:34):
my, you know, early 20s musodickery.
I could see that, howeverstroppy I might be about about
other aspects of this album, Icould see that this was
something incredibly special, um, and and that far surpassed you
know its origins andreinterpreted it and made it his

(01:07:57):
own.
And you know, I mean, obviouslyI know that now, but even at
the time that was obvious evento me.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
Yeah, ok, let's vote, because there's possibly more
to say about it.
I'm going to vote forHallelujah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):
Yeah, it's Hallelujah for me as well 3-0, obviously
yeah, ok, fine, which takes usto the semi-finals.
So semi-final one is AmarjarPinn versus Eternal Life.
Don't wanna read for you, Don'twanna know I'm bloody tortured.

Speaker 5 (01:08:28):
The white horses blow , Memories fire.
The rhythms fall slow.
Black beauty, I love you soEternal life is now on my trail.

(01:09:03):
Got my record in the car for aman Just need one last layer.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
Why are these ugly tears?
Wow, okay, so, okay.
So Mojo Pin is this verytranscendental, beautiful,
extraordinary piece of music andEternal Life shows a bit of a
grit, a bit of anger, andthere's a story that he had to
do this GLR session when he cameto the UK and they got stuck in

(01:09:39):
traffic.
So the guy put on the guy he'sthe record company guy who was,
you know, helping him out whenhe was in London.
It's getting a bit quiet nowwith the chats.
He's very quiet, quiteintroverted, you know really
sweet guy, but you know reallysweet guy.
But you know it was quiet.
So he put on the radio and theywere listening to glr and then
they're like oh okay, so come uplater.
We got tim buckley's boy comingin.
He's going to sing us songs andI just kept referring to him,

(01:10:01):
not ever as jeff buckley, justtim buckley's son.
So he got more and more angryand he ended up kicking the
radio in the car and breaking it.
And then they they're in thistraffic jam.
Then late, um, and glr has beenputting out all these traffic
announcements for the for thetime he's been doing it and they
go oh yeah, nice of you to turnup as if they don't know what's
going on with london traffic.

(01:10:22):
And so he's really pissed offwhen he's doing the, the, the
kind of the session, and healmost like the, the onr guy's
like shit.
I thought he really wasn'tgoing to go and play, I thought
he was just going to walk offand it's this really terse
interview with the DJ and it'sreally awkward and he's kind of
talking about record labels.
She's like well, you've justgot to play the game sometimes,

(01:10:42):
haven't you?
And she's really like, reallylike flippant.
And then he just goes and playsthis incredible version,
acoustic version, of um of graceand just like blows everyone's
mind and it's just spectacularthe verse he does, just with an
acoustic guitar, totally full,and you can just hear like the

(01:11:04):
jaws dropping and they're likeoh, that was amazing and as a
result, he sells out.
He's at his first ever londonshow, which is a club called
bungees, so much there's so manypeople around the corner, so
much so that, um, the anr personthere or the record company
person there, goes around thecorner to another venue and says
, are you empty tonight?
Yeah, okay, good, can we useyou?

(01:11:26):
And they go.
So yes, and she books thatvenue and everyone who's waiting
.
He then goes and plays anotherset of that second venue,
literally around the corner,like pied piper, like leading
them all around the corner toplay, and he plays a completely
different set than the first sethe played and that's that's
like classic jeff buckley, justto be able to do that.
And they're all like, sothey're very aware they're in

(01:11:48):
like something very special isgoing on and it's just this
incredible artist.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 4 (01:11:53):
And that's yeah, wow, that's incredible.
I didn't know any of that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
No, I'd never heard any of that before.
That's a great story.

Speaker 2 (01:11:59):
These songs kind of represent the story really
nicely, that kind of this mythic, beautiful ethereal music you
can do.
But also the anger that was inhim which we've obviously his
estrangement from his father andhow complex that must have been
.
But I love Eternal Life.

Speaker 4 (01:12:18):
I really do, so I'm voting for it.
Oh God, Guy, I'm probably goingto go with Mojo Pin just
because I like it a little bitmore than Eternal.
Well, I used to love EternalLife a lot.
I used to really like thepunkiness of it all, and as I've
gotten older I've just kind ofgot into the more subtler bits I
still haven't grown up.
I've just, I've just faded awayinto this, oh I like the soft

(01:12:40):
airy bit.
How about you steve?
What are you voting for?

Speaker 1 (01:12:43):
oh, this is killing me, I mean, I mean, I don't
think in some ways that eitherof these should be here.
I'm really concerned about theother semi-final, because that
should really be the final andGrace should be here.
This whole thing is a disaster.
Whoever did this?
Who did this fucking draw?

Speaker 2 (01:12:59):
It's an absolute shit show.
What an idiot.
There should be at least fivesongs in the semi-final.
For starters, there should befive songs in the final.

Speaker 1 (01:13:06):
Yeah, five songs in the final.
Yeah, i'm'm gonna have to votemojo pin, I think.
I think it's a great opener, Ithink it sets up the story of
the album really well and also Ican't get past those racist,
angry men.
What is life, what is peace?
Lyrics on eternal life andthey're certainly not this far.
So mojo pin is going through.

Speaker 2 (01:13:20):
I mean you've complained about this semi-final
, but you did vote for eternallife in the quarter final, just
saying it could have been overyes, I see that now.

Speaker 1 (01:13:29):
Okay, it's.
It's rare that I'm just goingto admit it, but just looking at
the sheet I am wondering why.

Speaker 4 (01:13:37):
I did that, oh dear.

Speaker 1 (01:13:41):
And then the other semi-final is Last Goodbye
against Hallelujah guitar solo.

Speaker 5 (01:14:13):
And I've seen your flag on the marble arch.
And love is not a victory march.
It's a cold and it's a brokenhallelujah.
Hallelujah, hallelujah,hallelujah, hallelujah,

(01:14:34):
hallelujah, hallelujah,hallelujah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:40):
Yeah, this is very difficult.

Speaker 4 (01:14:44):
Let's try and ask her first, because I can't Hang on,
hang on.

Speaker 1 (01:14:48):
Can I just say?
Yeah too much pain.
Hang on, hang on.
Can I just say yeah, it is.
It is for me a measure of howincredible hallelujah is that
steve never votes for coverversion.
Sumner ever, who loves lastgoodbye, thinks it's wonderful
and knows that it's one of thefew tracks written only by jeff
brookley on the album, is stillstruggling to know what to vote

(01:15:09):
for here that is a measure ofhow good hallelujah is I'm going
to cut through the whimsy, theflappy bits.

Speaker 2 (01:15:14):
I'm going to go straight to my vote.
I love Hallelujah and he's amodern hymn.
It really is a beautiful song,but it has become something
that's owned.
Not sound cheesy actually, thiswill sound cheesy, but owned by
everyone.
If it's a hymn, it's a communalevent, and Last Goodbye is a
song written purely by him andrepresents him more.

(01:15:35):
I think if he would be votinghere which I doubt he would be
doing he would want me to votefor Last Goodbye, so I'm going
to vote for it.
So Last Goodbye is my vote.

Speaker 4 (01:15:44):
Guy, I'm going to make you two.

Speaker 2 (01:15:45):
Do the difficult bit.

Speaker 4 (01:15:46):
I am Look, we are really picking up fine, fine
hairs here and I agree there isa potential overexposure to
something like Hallelujah.
For a number of varying reasons, most of which I think are
still positive the fact that itis what it is is incredible.

(01:16:09):
But Last Goodbye, it's like it'sjust we've got very little left
in this race of, I thinkffbuckley's sort of songwriting
and artistry and these kind ofclassic songs that he writes um,
and that's what I love abouthim.
Ultimately, last goodbye, Ithink, is a worthy contender to

(01:16:31):
win the competition based onwhat we've got left um
hallelujah I love, but lastgoodbye is to be able to write
that.
Yeah, it's incredible, in myopinion I.

Speaker 1 (01:16:41):
I'm going to, I think , vote hallelujah for a number
of reasons.
I love last goodbye.
I think it's important that Ido vote at this late stage for a
cover, because I never, everever do, and actually, I think
it's a a statement of how greatI think this album is.
Now great I think he is, so I dothat out of respect to him.

(01:17:03):
Uh, rather than.
You know, usually I would findthe respectful thing to do would
be to vote for the artist'soriginal material, but it's it's
a show of my respect for himthat I'm voting for something he
interpreted, rather than theother way around.
Also, this idea I know youweren't necessarily implying a
religiousness when you said themodern hymn, but I I do find

(01:17:25):
that yeah I mean, cohen is afilthy man and um, he, he always
kind of was, and it's very,very obviously to me as a lyric
hound, a song about sex.
Specifically, it's a song aboutorgasms and this idea that

(01:17:47):
everyone has where they justdon't listen to it and they're
like, oh it's lovely, hallelujah.
It's like it's a song about theorgasm.
What are you doing?
It's filth.
It's a massive extendedmetaphor for sex.
It's all there.
It's all blindingly obvious.
There's there's even some sortof some bondage in there, you

(01:18:07):
know, and it's like.
The thing is, what I love abouthis version is to me it doesn't
sound hymnal, it sounds sexual,it sounds he makes it sound sexy
in an interesting way.
I mean.
So I hear the sex in it when hesings it, uh and when and when.
No defense to other people thatcovered it.

(01:18:28):
No, actually, lots of offense.
So they cover it as if it's, asif it's a hymn and I'm like
what the fuck is wrong withpeople?

Speaker 2 (01:18:35):
it's a sex song um, you've just ruined it for
everyone who's listened.
Well it's just that's myfucking fault that people don't
listen to songs if we're gonna,if we're gonna, if we're gonna
tape anything up from thisbombshell, it's a sex song I
mean, it's not the thing is.

Speaker 1 (01:18:51):
The thing is people sing it so you can actually hear
the lyrics, and people stilldon't get it and it's it's so.
I never once listened to it anddidn't think it was about any
anything else but sex it's like.
So I'm voting for it because hesounds like a man who
understands that and I thinkit's the definitive cover
version of my lifetime and Ilove it and I'm.

(01:19:11):
It's fair enough that lastgoodbye is going through, but I
think it is marvelous, whichtakes us to the final yes before
we get to the final, I did sayat the start of this.

Speaker 2 (01:19:19):
Um, how will we bring a trademark, uh, sense of
irreverence and whimsy.
So here's something that maywell not work, but I had to try
anyway.
So, um, when he did a phantomtour of it's called a phantom
solo tour of cafes in northeastof us in december 96, so very
late on, he appeared under aseries of aliases and they're

(01:19:42):
all kind of crazy names.
Um, and I've designed a gamecalled I see where this is going
.
Yeah, is it buckley or is itbuckles?
So is this a title of his alias, a true alias, or is it a title
of an Adam Buxton song from hissong wars with Joe Cornish on
Radio 6?
Music.

(01:20:06):
So is the crack robots?
Did he appear as the crackrobots or Jane's brain?
One of these is Buckley and oneof these is Buckles.
Is it Buckley or Buckles?

Speaker 4 (01:20:16):
I reckon he went as Jane's Brain.

Speaker 2 (01:20:18):
Okay, steve Cracklebat 1-0 to Stephen Sumner
.
Yay, did he appear as Four FootClub or Possessed by Elves?

Speaker 4 (01:20:30):
Possessed by Elves.

Speaker 1 (01:20:31):
Four Foot Club One all.

Speaker 2 (01:20:35):
Possessed by Elves was Buckley and Four Foot Club
was Buckles.
Okay, father, demo or Meatballs.

Speaker 4 (01:20:43):
Father Demo Steve.

Speaker 1 (01:20:45):
I'll go Meatballs.
Then it was.

Speaker 2 (01:20:48):
Buckles likes him some meatballs.
It was Father Demo for Geoff.
Okay, smackro Biotic versus theHours.

Speaker 1 (01:20:58):
I'm going to say Smackro Biotic is Buckley.

Speaker 4 (01:21:00):
I'm going to say smackrobiotic is Buckley, I'll
go the opposite.

Speaker 2 (01:21:03):
I'll go the hours.

Speaker 4 (01:21:04):
It's too old.
Oh, oh, tension, okay, thetension is ratcheting up.

Speaker 1 (01:21:07):
Hang on, which was which, though we don't find out
who was which.
Smackrobotic was Buckley andthe other one was Buckles.

Speaker 2 (01:21:13):
Okay, is it Buckley or is it Buckles?
Loop, that one was buckles.
Okay, is it buckly or is itbuckles?
Loop that up.
Go ahead and turn it into ajingle.
Okay, uh, dirty robots.
Or topless america for the win,for the win, topless america,
or dirty robots got to betopless america for buckley and

(01:21:34):
steve oh you can go for the same, you don't have to go.

Speaker 1 (01:21:36):
I'm gonna say topless america as well.
It sounds like a buckley lyric.
And Steve, you can go for thesame, you don't have to go.
I'm going to say ToplessAmerica as well.

Speaker 4 (01:21:38):
I think it sounds like a Buckley lyric.

Speaker 2 (01:21:40):
You're both right.
We go to a sudden death deciderA puppet show named Julio, a
puppet show named Julio orSpecial Bath.

Speaker 1 (01:21:59):
I'm going to say Special Bath is Buckley.

Speaker 2 (01:22:01):
Guy.

Speaker 4 (01:22:03):
I'm going to say a puppet show named Julio is
Buckley.

Speaker 2 (01:22:06):
It's just you and Julio down by the schoolyard Guy
because you have won Buckley orBuckles.

Speaker 1 (01:22:13):
I'm very sad about that.
Well, that's a lovelycompetition, brett.
I enjoyed that enormously.
That takes us beautifully intothe final, which is possibly
erroneously Mojo Pin, who's tosay versus Last Goodbye, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, so,so, so.

Speaker 5 (01:22:43):
So, so, so, Kiss me, please kiss me.
Kiss me out of desire, baby, noconsolation.
Oh, you know it makes me soangry, cos I know that in time

(01:23:05):
I'll only make you cry Since ourlast goodbye.

Speaker 4 (01:23:13):
I mean all respect to Mojo Pinn, but how did it get
here?

Speaker 1 (01:23:17):
It shouldn't have got this far, which is a bit of a
spoiler as to where this isgoing, but it really shouldn't
have got this far, I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:24):
I'm voting for it.
Of course I'm not.
Of course I'm not, but itdoesn't matter.
Here's me trying to bring itback.
Ok, just get ready, steve.
Every song's a winner on thisalbum.
How can we have one?
They're all so beautiful, true?

Speaker 1 (01:23:39):
True.

Speaker 2 (01:23:39):
Did you like what I did there?

Speaker 1 (01:23:40):
I see what you did there, right?
Are we all voting then?

Speaker 2 (01:23:43):
Yeah, he seems so depleted For someone who doesn't
understand sports and bangs onabout it, and also doesn't like
covers.

Speaker 1 (01:23:50):
You voted for a cover all the way through and you're
disappointed that the sportingformat has fallen down.

Speaker 2 (01:24:00):
Me and my ADHD were thinking about Hallelujah and
how it was filthy and I just gotdistracted for a minute.
It's interesting you seemslightly glum.
That's an interesting reaction.

Speaker 1 (01:24:06):
No, no, I was just mildly distracted by filth.

Speaker 2 (01:24:09):
Okay, oh well, good Well, thanks for not sharing.
I would say there yeah, okay,so I'm voting for that.
What are you voting for?

Speaker 4 (01:24:20):
I'm going to put a Mojo pin in Mojo pin and let
that one down.

Speaker 2 (01:24:23):
Oh nice, what is a?

Speaker 4 (01:24:25):
Mojo pin.
Is it a badge that came withthe magazine?

Speaker 1 (01:24:30):
That is a fantastic answer.
I thought briefly that it wassomething that killed your
ability to write songs becauseit put a pin in your mojo and
deflated it.
But reading the lyric, thatdoesn't make any sense because
it sounds like he needs one.

Speaker 2 (01:24:48):
No, it's a fix for an all-consuming desire.
So if you fall in love with agirl, he said, you start
drinking her drinks, watchingher favourite TV shows and pick
up all of her kind of nuancesand has he made that phrase up,
or is that actually a thing?
That's what he said.
He might have made it up, butyeah.

Speaker 1 (01:25:05):
Do you think there's like loads of Americans shouting
at the radio now?
Because this is like a reallywell-known phrase and it's like
stupid Brits don't know whatmojo pin means.

Speaker 2 (01:25:14):
Possibly, I mean.
I would imagine people havebeen shouting at their radios.

Speaker 1 (01:25:18):
It's not my fault, you say it lilac.
What's a lilac?
Lilac wine, lilac wine.
Stop saying lilac, it's lilac,for fuck's sake.
There you are.
Push back against thoseAmericans.

Speaker 2 (01:25:29):
You tell them Steve, yeah, I Articulate stuff from me
there, just put a podcasttariff on them.
Yep, so are we.
Are we all voting for?
Yes, we're all voting for.

Speaker 1 (01:25:42):
Last Goodbye because we've all got ears and we're
sensible.
But it is brilliant and itshould be in the final, so I'm
happy.

Speaker 4 (01:25:48):
I'm happy that half the final is good, not that Mojo
Pin isn't good it's amazing,mojo Pin's great, but it
shouldn't be in the final itshouldn't be in the final.
It shouldn't be in the final.
It's a supporting character.
It's not going to win BestActor.
It's a supporting actor at best.

Speaker 2 (01:26:00):
I mean, I would say, I think it opens the album.
Well, yeah, I would say way tobuild narrative tension, you two
Right what are we doing thatone great Pug?

Speaker 4 (01:26:09):
Yeah, I'm going to go with five.

Speaker 2 (01:26:11):
Okay, well then me about this album.
Then how do you so you?
Have you been listening to itall the way through your kind of
adult life then, guy, because Idefinitely had 10 years off for
a brief period.

Speaker 4 (01:26:21):
It was all I listened to religiously for about two
years and then I've come back toit, like you, in recent years.
I actually listened to thesketches from my sweetheart the
drunk and the live hna albumsmaybe more, to be honest with
you, because they're so big andlong and weird and, um, they
always seem to find new ways topackage his stuff because

(01:26:44):
they've been.
They've been talking about abiopic for the last 20 years and
that's never happened.
I think his mum is very, veryprotective is it his mother?
I think it's his mother, um ofhis estate and how he, how it's
portrayed and well, you say that, but there's.

Speaker 1 (01:26:58):
but there's a lot of material out there for somebody
who made one album, yeah ofcourse yeah, and I think that's
just a yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:27:06):
it's never going to.
You know, they're never goingto let it lie, are they?
Every artist, I think, passesaway now.
The further away from it, themore the control opens up to
whoever.
But for one, I'm glad that Iget to hear Forget Her.
I get to hear the legacyversion of Grace.
I think is fantastic.
If you haven't heard it.
The Bob Dylan cover of MamaYou've Been On my Mind is

(01:27:30):
phenomenal.
And there's Screaming JayHawkins.
I think there's a cover of himon there.
There's Forget Her.
There's reallyreaming JayHawkins.
I think there's a cover of himon there.
I forget how.
There's really cool, crazystuff and it's just him and a
guitar in the studio playingaround.

Speaker 1 (01:27:44):
I love his Kick Out the Jams cover oh so good.

Speaker 2 (01:27:47):
Yeah, it's so good.
I mean, ok, well, let's endwith A.
It was a beautiful album, bythe way.
I kind of fell back in lovewith it again.

Speaker 4 (01:27:54):
I didn't ask you.

Speaker 2 (01:27:57):
And realized just what a spectacular piece of
music is and what an incredibletalent he was.
But he was just getting goingand I think when you listen to
the sketches, really leftsketches, I mean, they were
quite fully formed.
There were some songs thatsounded like they could have
been off grace.
But I think when you heareverybody here wants you, it's

(01:28:18):
like's, like wow, you get anincredible signal of what could
have come.

Speaker 4 (01:28:21):
it's just there's a song called morning theft as
well there's people it really islike.
I think that is why it hasgrown.

Speaker 2 (01:28:28):
It's, it's the imagination takes hold of what
might have been yeah, and youknow, and he, he, he always said
he wanted to live with graceand once you've felt true love,
you can live with grace andwithout fear.
And he did in his music, inevery decision he made, and it
was all too brief, but it leftus something spectacular.

(01:28:49):
Oh, oh no, this can't happen tome.

Speaker 5 (01:29:35):
Did you rush to the phone to call?
Was there a voice on the phoneor a voice in the back of your
mind Saying maybe?

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