In this episode of the Me to We Talk podcast, Elders Conell & Rhonda Holllins, delve into the poignant yet powerful topic of navigating grief and the anger of loss during the holiday season. Our esteemed guest, Dr. Michelle Robinson, author of acclaimed book, “Why Hast the Mighty Fallen” (link), and licensed therapist with extensive experience in both personal and professional realms of grief, shares her insights on transforming loss into a journey of reconnection with God and loved ones.
As the festive season, often a time of joy, approaches, those who have lost loved ones may face an overwhelming wave of emotions.
Dr. Robinson emphasizes the importance of addressing grief with understanding and compassion. More importantly addressing anger with God after the loss of a loved one—don’t worry God can handle your anger.
We begin by acknowledging the stark reality that approximately 2.5 million people die annually in the United States, leaving behind an average of five grieving individuals each. This staggering statistic underscores the widespread nature of grief and the necessity for open discussions and support systems.
Learn, throughout the episode, coping strategies for managing grief, particularly during holidays, birthdays, and other significant occasions.
Check out this podcast’s episode topic chapters;
• Understanding the complexities of grief during festive seasons
• Importance of remembering and honoring the loved ones we’ve lost
• Practical coping strategies to manage grief in daily life
• Acknowledging survivor’s remorse and learning to embrace joy
• Communicating openly about grief with family and friends
• The significance of addressing anger & maintaining faith through loss
• Seeking professional support and resources for healing
• Practical steps for reconnecting with one's faith after a loss.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
welcome back everyone .
It is the me too.
We talk podcast and, yes, it isthe truth serum series, where
we promise to tell you the truth, the entire truth and nothing
but the truth so help me god nowwe have a great episode yet
again.
I get excited.
What?
Speaker 3 (00:25):
No, all of them are great.
What do you mean?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
yet again.
He's so right.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
You're implying that something isn't great that we do
.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I know, but I'm really excited about our topic
today and I'm excited about ourspecial guest.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
It is so many good things that are going on, but we
also want to.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Even though we have a very lighthearted podcast, I
think we can say that often wehave to be realistic and talk
about all aspects Facts.
So, just in case you're notaware of what this podcast is
all about, we are here to helpcouples and families get from me
to we, one couple at a time,amen.
So that means if you aremarried yes.
(01:02):
If you are seriously dating,yes.
Yes.
If you're engaged.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
That's the best.
You are married.
Yes, if you are seriouslydating.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yes, yes, if you're engaged right, that's the best
thing you could ever do.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Get engaged, yes, get engaged.
Get engaged To get married, sothat you can get married.
Well, you have come to theright place, and so we are going
to go deeper.
This holiday season, there'salways cheer, there's always
great things that happen duringthe holidays, but what if I told
you that the holidays, a timemeant for joy and celebration,
can be one of the hardest timesof the year for those who have
(01:32):
lost a loved one?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
No, that's facts.
That's, if when you say that,me myself, it does hit home, I
think about my dad this time ofthe year, because you know we
haven't had him.
What since what?
16 years?
Yeah, haven't had him.
What since what?
16 years?
Yeah, he never met the boys.
So you know, you all, youreflect, yeah, you reflect, and
you kind of just wonder, what ifit?
Comes to, especially when itcomes to holidays, yeah,
especially when it comes toholidays.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
So, you know, my husband just brought up, you
know, talking about losing hisparent.
But what if it's a spouse?
Um, you know a significantother, a child, right.
A sibling, a cousin and even afriend, right, the festive
season can trigger deep feelingsof grief and loneliness, you
(02:13):
know.
So we want to make sure thatyou all are there with us when
we're talking about that.
And let's not forget what thispodcast title is all about, and
it titled when holidays hurt.
Yeah, I know, today we'rejoined by a licensed therapist.
Uh, her name is michellerobison.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Doctor, do you guys put some okay, we're gonna put
that in there.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
License on the name doctor who has not only guided
countless couples through thegrief of losing a loved one, but
has also experienced someprofound loss herself, and we
hope that we can explore thattoday.
But she's also going to teachus today, through conversation,
how to navigate through thosechallenging times.
So I want to give them a greatstatistic that they may not be
(02:58):
thinking of, but statistics showthat about 2.5 million people
die in the United Statesannually.
Okay, so each are leaving anaverage of five grieving people
behind.
Wow, multiplied by 2.5 million.
Wow, that's huge.
That is.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
I mean, I'm not sure what the population of the US is
, but obviously let's just useround numbers and say 10 million
people are grieving somebodyand I'm a part of that statistic
myself, Like I said earlier.
Like I said, with the loss ofmy dad I'm a part of that.
So I know what you're saying,but that's still a lot
nevertheless, no matter what thenumber is.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
That's a thought that you don't really think about.
And if you go further from, ifyou're losing a child and I'm
going to give more statisticsbecause we feel in our heart and
our spirit, god dealt with uson this one.
We have so many loved ones thatwe know of that have left this
earth in this season, right, andso when, when the season comes
(03:58):
back around, how do we equipthem?
You know, not our way, not theworld's way, but God's way, yeah
do we equip?
them.
You know, not our way, not theworld's way, but God's way, you
know.
So, if you've lost a parent, ifyou've lost a child, if you've
lost anyone, we want to makesure that you have everything
you need to help you recenterand reconnect, you know, either
(04:19):
with the rest of your family,with your spouse's family, and
then, most importantly, how canyou reconnect and recenter with
God?
Speaker 3 (04:27):
man, that's deep and it hits different too, like I
said, because of the fact like,for instance, losing a parent is
different than losing a child,because a parent you know,
they've lived a certain amountof life versus a child, no
parent wants to outlive theirchild, no, so it just hits
totally different, especiallylike this time of year with
Thanksgiving, christmas, newYear's, when you just wonder
(04:49):
what if, especially for a child.
That's just man, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Well, before we dive deeper, let me introduce our
esteemed guest.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
We want to give honor where honor is due.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Michelle Robinson has been a dedicated servant of the
Lord since, you know, almostchildbirth.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Let's just put it that way, right.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
And she has, since 2008, served among 100 elders at
Family Christian Center, wherewe also serve under the guidance
of our pastor, steve Muncy.
Michelle has held variousleadership roles, including
intercessory prayer, meaningshe's a prayer warrior.
You want a therapist?
That's a prayer warrior.
(05:29):
Ok, you can be strategic inprayer and take the enemy down.
Not only is that, but she is inthe baptism ministry, she's on
the elders council and as ateacher and mentor for eldership
and catechism candidates.
In addition to her churchleadership, michelle is a
licensed therapist specializingin grief counseling Amen.
(05:50):
She's passionate about helpingindividuals and families
navigate the complexities ofloss and finding healing through
faith, but on top of all ofthat, she is also an
accomplished author.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Do you hear me Give?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
it to me.
Yes, her first book.
Why has the Mighty Fallen?
I love the title Right.
It was published and it'savailable on Amazon, on Barnes
and Noble and through ChristianFaith Publishing Company.
And she is the proud mother ofone beautiful daughter, arielle
Amani, and she eagerly, you know, awaits the plan for what's
(06:26):
next for her.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
God has got it waiting for her right.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
So you know, without further ado, let's give honor
where honor is due.
Elder Michelle therapist.
Licensed therapistextraordinaire.
Thank you for joining us on theMedia.
We Talk podcast.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Amen, amen.
Thank you for having me.
You two are one of my favoritecouples at our church and I'm
just honored to be here and tobe a part of this event taking
place at this time.
Thank you so very much forhaving me.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
I receive that, we receive that.
You're one of my special peopletoo.
Come on now.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yes, amen, yes you know you want to glean from
someone that has experience andunderstanding.
And that is one thing I can say100% about you.
It just pours off of you.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
You know you exude it right.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
It permeates the room .
So when we get close it'll belike, ooh, let me lean in and
get a little bit me lean in andget a little bit Well.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I tend to say if I'm anything, it's definitely, you
know, to the glory of God.
I enjoy working and loving onGod's people, and I think that's
what we're here to do, and so,in any way that I can be of an
assist, to help someone in theirjourney, I do believe that
that's part of my God-givenassignment, and so I'm always
just ready to dive on in.
So again, thank you for havingme.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Amen, amen.
And again I want to just thankyou again for what you just said
there, cause I know anytimewe've kind of ushered someone
toward you to kind of seek thatguidance, you openheartedly
accept them and kind of helpthem maneuver through that
newfound space of grief and theycome out better than we gave
them to you.
Oh, that's true, that's so true, they always come out better
(08:13):
you know.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
But you know, if you're OK with us, we're ready
to dive in.
Because, we have so manyquestions, and now not only do I
feel like this is going toanswer the many questions that
the couples have asked usthrough Prep for Marriage and
who just reach out to us on theregular basis.
I just think I have questionsmyself right you know, and I
(08:35):
know Connell does too, so youknow if you're okay with it.
If you wouldn't mind, can youshare a bit about your personal
journey with grief and how ithas shaped your approach to
therapy?
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Well, sure, sure, I'll definitely be more than
willing to share with that.
Well, my personal journeyinvolving having lost two
spouses, one in 1999, mydaughter was just two, and then
more recently, in 2019, mydaughter was 22.
But my journey has has been,you know, I'd always counseled a
(09:13):
lot of times, counsel withinthe church, but then, when grief
, you know, came, came at mydoor by losing a spouse, with
medical complications in bothinstances.
One of the reasons why Icurrently work in the
underserved communities AfricanAmerican communities
predominantly is because we tendto have difficulties and,
(09:38):
unfortunately, our demise isbecause of hypertension,
congestive heart failure anddiabetes, and at least two of
those knocked at my door withrespect to my spouse and being
married.
But, yes, it was such a cryingtime when it happened because
(09:59):
the first time my daughter wasonly two years old and, of
course, that was veryheart-wrenching because it's
like well, god, what am I goingto do now?
Raise my daughter by myself,and I thought we'd be literally
married forever.
So, one of the things when lifetrajectory changes for you and
(10:19):
you don't know what else to dobut rely on God, yes, you have
to rely on the Lord to see youthrough and to carry you through
.
Now I also believe that God usesother people and, again, I
didn't always ascribe to therapy.
Until that time, actually, Iwas taking my daughter to a
(10:40):
pediatrician and there was adoor that said serenity
counseling.
And I knew serenity meant peace, calm and quiet.
And I poked my head in the doorand the gentleman said, ma'am,
may I help you?
And I kind of got a littlestartled and I tried to turn
around and go the other way andhe said come on in, come on in.
So he told me what he didcounseling and that really
started my counseling journeyand I learned a lot about grief.
(11:04):
I learned a lot that I needed togo through that I just really
wasn't prepared for.
I grew up in the church andchurch certainly had its place
and helped me and individualsprayed for me and, you know,
just helped me in such a myriadof ways.
But I also realized that Ineeded to understand what was
(11:26):
happening.
I needed to understand how toprocess grief, and that is
something that I gained in thatjourney and so that actually
helped me for the next time andyou know, years later, 2019, I
would go through it right beforeCOVID hit, and so I felt I was
a little bit better prepared.
But again, even when it hits,you still can't be fully, fully
(11:50):
prepared because no one wants toget that call, no one wants to
hear what they heard and seewhat they've seen, and so those
are some areas that you know inmy personal journey.
But God has been faithful andalways has been, but it's been
tough, but he's been faithful.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
You know.
So you said you started yourjourney at that point.
Now I know you have quite a fewaccreditations behind it.
If you wouldn't mind justclarifying for our listeners
some of those accreditations?
So I know you're an LPC, anLMHCA, adhd, ccsp.
Can you, outside of it beinginitials right, can you help us
(12:36):
out understand what that means?
Sure, Sure.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
So an LPC is a licensed professional counselor.
That is the tier of licensurefor the state of Illinois.
I'm duly licensed, meaning Ihold two licenses in the state
of Illinois and Indiana.
Indiana's credentialinglicensure is a licensed mental
(13:06):
health counseling associate, sothat's the LMHCA.
I am currently working on theLCPC, which is a clinical
portion of licensure, which islike a second tier licensure.
I went on to get furtheraccreditation in ADHD, which is
attention deficit hyperactivitydisorder, as well as autism.
My mentors were instructing methat it's good for a therapist
(13:29):
to have a niche, something thatthey feel they can kind of focus
on and become a little moreknowledgeable in a particular
area.
And because when I did myinternship in Holwood, illinois,
the proprietor gave me a lot ofyoung children and most of them
had ADHD and I kind of backedmyself into it.
(13:51):
But actually I come to enjoyand to learn a lot about autism
and ADHD and I was able tobecome certified in those areas
as well.
I also work with individualsdealing with grief predominantly
, and as I look when they talkabout the trajectory of my life,
(14:11):
I get to see why I had to gothrough it, so I can now help
others go through grief.
But most of my population dealswith grief ADHD, anxiety,
depression, traumaticexperiences and I actually do
couple therapies, so those areand I do career counseling as
(14:33):
well, and so those are thingsthat you know.
I'm always looking to haveclients.
I'm always willing to help andassist in those areas.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Hey man, hey man.
So you're saying Amen.
So what you're saying is thatyou do know something about this
.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Just a little bit that.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
I do receive that, I do receive.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Just a little bit.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
But if we're staying in the vein of the holidays, and
in your opinion, what are someof the common challenges people
face after losing someone?
I don't want to put a timeframe on it, like losing someone
within a year or two or justmore recently, but what are some
challenges people tend to face,when the holidays do come
around, when it comes to dealingwith that grief?
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Sure, a lot of the common challenges is not only do
you lose the person physically,but you lose everything that's
attached to them.
You lose everything that theybrought with them to your life,
whether it's financially,whether it's emotionally.
However they supported you, youlose all of that.
(15:39):
In cases where grandma orgrandpa has passed away, they
may have been the ones to pickup the kids after school while
mom and dad are still working,and so you know, you lose
everything.
You lose the value that theybrought to your family, and so
life has to readjust.
You have to prepare for a newnorm.
(16:02):
When you've experienced a lifeand a death, rather, for those
that you love, and dependingupon their position or their
role in the family if it wasfather, if it was mother, if it
was grandparent, if it was achild you lose what they brought
to your family as well aspersonally.
They're not there at the dinnertable, you don't see them, you
(16:24):
don't get to buy presents forthem, and so it can be very
daunting and very heavy aroundthis time of the holiday and of
the holiday season, and so, astherapists, we often do talk to
our clients and tell them waysthat they can learn to work
through.
You have to process throughgrief.
It's not something that you canjump over and get over right
(16:47):
away.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
I never thought about it like that.
I mean I realized the truth, Irealized you missed that person
and you miss them in your life,but I never thought about it
like that.
I mean I realize you miss thatperson and you miss them in your
life, but I never thought aboutthe position they hold and all
that they encompass, and I neverthought about it like that.
That's oh man.
That's just a different way ofthinking, you're right.
So if that be the standpoint,what coping strategies would you
suggest people can kind ofimplement during these times
(17:12):
when they might start feelingsome type of way as far as just
to kind of kind of push through?
Speaker 1 (17:18):
sure, learning.
One of the coping strategiescould be learning to celebrate
your loved one's legacy.
Learning to celebrate who theyare to you, who they are to you,
who they meant to you.
What type of significance, whattype of impact did they have
upon your life?
Oftentimes we talked about yourfive stages of grief, which is
(17:43):
anger, denial and shock,bargaining, depression and then
acceptance.
So while you're processingthrough, sometimes we just stay
stuck on the day we learned oftheir demise, the day we, you
know.
Oftentimes we know what we weredoing, you know where we were
when we learned of it, andsometimes it caused us to be
(18:05):
stuck in that dispensation oftime when we learn of their
death.
So, holidays and theirbirthdays, you know, when I talk
to my clients, I say theirbirthday is going to come every
year.
The day they pass is going tocome every year.
Father's Day, mother's Day,grandparents' Day these days are
going to come every year.
So what would help is learningof ways to memorialize your
(18:29):
loved one wearing their favoritecolor, going to a dinner spot
with the family Oftentimesthere's a tendency to withdraw
and isolate and so learning howto resist that desire to pull
away from people.
And oh, I'll just grieve bymyself.
I'll just cry, I'll just govisit the cemetery or do these
(18:53):
different things, but the morewe can learn to still insert
ourselves with other familymembers, because not only who
that loved one is or was to you,they were also in another role
with someone else.
So if it's grandma, they wereyour sibling's grandmother too.
If it's father and you haveother children, they're their
(19:15):
father too, and so sometimes weforget that we're in these other
roles.
You're still mom, you're stillauntie, you're still cousin,
you're still brother, you'restill uncle, and so other people
still need you to hold thatrole and hold that position,
even though the loved one islost.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
So sometimes knowing to try to resist that desire to
pull away, isolate until nobodyunderstands and it may not be
that they understand what you'regoing through personally but we
have to know that others aregoing through it as well.
They may go through it in adifferent way, but again,
(20:00):
they're going through as well,and so sometimes being able to
talk about it in those moments,to celebrate that person, who
they are to you, can be helpfulwhen you can do it together as a
family.
This was so harsh to me when myfirst husband's birthday would
come around my daughter and evenwith her stepdad, my second
husband, we celebrated her dad'sbirthday every year.
(20:25):
We'd get a cupcake, we'd lighta candle and my second husband
had no problem We'd sing happybirthday in his honor.
So, learning how to still honor, memorialize and celebrate the
life that god allowed thatperson to have for that season
you had them amen can be veryhelpful.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Amen and elder roberts, everything you said was
amazing.
Or, dr roberts, let me be, Iwant to address you as such.
Everything you said was amazingand I think it's so true for
the fact that, because peopledon't know how to handle you,
quote unquote with kid gloves.
Sometimes, depending on how youfeel around certain seasons,
they won't bring it up unlessyou do so.
If you don't celebrate that lossor that person, then, like you
(21:05):
just said, they'll internalizeit as well because they don't
want to upset you.
And so that's you're so right.
It's so important that wecontinue to, to celebrate the
life that was lived and cherishwhat we've lost and allow others
around us to do the same,because once you start
pigeonholing somebody else inthat space because you don't
want to be around it or youcan't deal with it, then, for
(21:26):
lack of a better word, thatmemory is lost.
That person has lost us evenmore because we can't celebrate
them like we should.
And I want to back up one moretime.
I apologize, I didn't get achance to meet your first
husband, but your second I wouldhave never known.
That was your second, because ofthe love you and your daughter
showed for him.
Yeah, when I saw her with him,I would have never thought that
was anybody but his daughter forthe fact of how she loved on
(21:49):
him so I want to just commendyou all on that as well, for the
fact that he, like he, was ableto celebrate your first
husband's birthday with you allbecause family is family
regardless, and that's how youall treat him as family and that
should be a part of it as wellright and it yeah
Speaker 2 (22:03):
and I just want to say that you had, you had such,
and you still do have such agreat example.
That's why you can couple.
Counseling should come easy toyou because you know people can
say they've had one great loveof their life and you've had two
.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Right, and what does that say about you?
Speaker 2 (22:19):
So God has given so much to you, and I know that you
have have lost so much as welltoo, and so I appreciate that
that you are sharing with ustoday, and and I guess that
leads me to my next questionthat you know, when you had two
such great loves in your life,right, how was it that you were
(22:40):
able to do this?
And then, most importantly, howcan someone else maintain their
faith when they may feel angryor abandoned after a loss?
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Yes, I think that's a very good question.
I want to add one other thing,actually, yes, one other thing
to the previous question.
Learning to journal, likewriting your thoughts down, can
be another coping strategy.
Sometimes writing what we callin psychology a goodbye letter,
sometimes you may want to sharehey, such and such may did well
(23:13):
in gymnastics today, and eventhough you know physically of
course we know you're not goingto give that letter to them but
just being able to offload thatinformation in a letter to still
keep them up to date, it cankind of help lift the load of
grief on you to be able to writedown your thoughts.
That's what we do inpsychotherapy, is talk therapy,
(23:39):
but learning to journal or writedown your thoughts, what you
may want to say to that person,can help relieve the heaviness
on your heart.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
That just made me feel so emotional Just thinking
about that, just thinking abouthow you could write and just
tell them about your day andthings that you know that they
would be proud of, or would havebeen excited to see you know,
we don't know we don't know whathappens afterwards, Right, Dr
Michelle?
But what I will say is that Ibelieve that you know, that our
(24:06):
loved ones know where we're at,you know in life that they may
be able to, not not in allcircumstances, but I do believe,
if they're in Abraham's bosom,if they're, you know, in, in, in
a waiting period for heaven,that they may have an
opportunity to see you.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yes, yes, definitely.
That's a big, a big part of itbeing able to just share.
Because, elder Hollins, youmade a statement earlier when
you said sometimes people don'tknow how to be with you and they
feel sometimes they don'tmention your loved one because
they feel, oh, that's going tomake her cry, oh, that's going
to make him feel sad.
But sometimes I look forward towhen people do say oh, you know
(24:45):
, I had a thought and I thoughtabout something Elder Robinson
said and I just laugh andsometimes you want someone to
laugh with you, you want someoneto memorialize and celebrate
his life, because sometimespeople don't know how to respond
, so they don't say anything andyou're like, wow, you're
(25:05):
wondering.
And again, transparency,sometimes I think, wow, do they
remember my husband the way Idid, do they?
You know, when you know theydon't say his name and you know.
And so I like when someonecomes to me and say you know
what you know, elder, hementored me and I remember this,
this, this, and I just laughand that's comforting for me.
(25:25):
And so one of the things that Itell my clients don't be afraid
to share how you feel, even inthe process of grief, you know,
even in that process to be ableto say you know what?
I remember he said something sosilly and that's comforting to
me.
I laugh about something you sayand I think about something that
(25:46):
still, like, holds that placein my heart, you know and so
sometimes other people don'tknow if you'll be okay with it,
know if you'll be okay with it,so when you just be okay with it
, then that lets them learn tobe okay with it as well and
that's that's another good point.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
You say the more often you can, the more often
you can be okay in that spacearound other people, the more
often they will be okay withdoing it more.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
So that's a very good point.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
I agree with that and knowing that it's okay to cry,
you know a lot of times peopleoh, I don't want to make them
cry to.
Crying is cleansing and purging.
Crying is okay, it's a way toget that heaviness off of your
heart.
You know, and I think there's apassage in scripture that says
god bottles up our tears.
Oh, that how awesome is that Forhim, to every tear we shed, he
(26:35):
bottles them up and he holdsthem.
He knows what every tear is for, what every tear means.
So when you think about thatit's like it's okay, God can
handle my tears, he knowsexactly what to do with my tears
and again, it helps to offloadand you share in that process
and you allow others to freelyshare in your process of grief
(26:58):
as you both or the familymembers go through it together.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yes, ma'am, you know what I'll say.
I do want to go back to theoriginal question I was asking,
but we went on a better path.
I'll be honest with you I lovethat path, but it made me know
it's perfect, it was.
It's actually where we shouldhave gone in the first place,
but I it makes me want to jumpahead to another thought that I
had, and I hope this is okay.
(27:23):
You know you were just talkingabout someone laughing with you.
You know and and andmemorializing that person
because you want to rememberthat they had an impact on you
and this life.
So what advice do you have forsomeone who feels guilty?
You know who, who, when theyexperience joy or happiness
after that person isn't there.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yes, yes, and that's very common.
I'm glad that that you askedthat question, because that's
what we call survivor's remorse.
Ask that question becausethat's what we call survivors
remorse, survivors remorse.
Sometimes we find thatindividuals can shut down and
feel that they don't have aright to smile, to laugh, to go
(28:05):
to the party, to show up in atengagement and and and that's
that's part of that process,because you feel that you know
and and again.
It's just like we get adriver's license, we get a
marriage license.
Nobody give us a license degreeright, so we have to like
figure that out.
And whether we go toprofessional help or just kind
(28:25):
of muddle through it, we don'treally know that there are ways
that we can help ourselves toprocess through it.
So the survivor's remorse iswhere we feel guilty for having
joy and happiness, for beingable to laugh, because we feel,
no, I shouldn't be having fun.
This is a sad time and weoftentimes don't think you know
(28:49):
what my loved one would love forme to enjoy myself and to keep
living.
And sometimes this is a partthat I deal with with clients
and I talk about it's okay tolive, it's okay to keep living
your life even though they'renot with you.
(29:09):
You carry them in your heart,you carry them in your spirit,
you carry parts of them, and soit's okay to still take care of
yourself, to still laugh, tostill do those things, to still
practice self-care.
Sometimes people go to theopposite and they stop taking
care of themselves.
Sometimes they stop, you know,honoring personal commitments.
(29:32):
They they're not, they don'tshow up, they're not there
because they don't feel thatthey just have that wherewithal
to do it.
But this is where God's gracecomes in, because he gives us
the grace, the enablement, powerto do what we need to do.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Amen, that's right.
That's right.
You know when you said that'sinvaluable.
That is very invaluable.
And when you said that, I meanfirst of all, I got chills and
and that's not dramatic, thatwas for real I really got chills
thinking about that and youknow, it also made me think.
You know, if you are thatindividual and we have done this
through the prep for marriagecourse, we always ask couples to
(30:11):
ask those deep questions whilethey're here, right, so we'll
say, hey, how would they wantyou to live life If they weren't
here?
You know how would they wantthat?
And remember it, write it down,take a picture.
We just say it all the time.
Say, just remember that momentin your mindset.
What did they want for you?
And then, when they are throughthat grieving process, and if
(30:35):
you are listening and you're inthat grieving process right now,
what is the answer?
You know and nine times out of10, the answer is that they
don't want you to suffer or foryou to stop being you the person
that they fell in love with, oror the parent that they looked
up to or the child that theycared for.
(30:55):
You know they want to see thefull version of you and yeah and
part of that I would, insteadof calling it survivor's remorse
, let's call it survivor's workis that you need to uphold that
memory, that of yourself, forthem.
Okay, you know and, and I justthink, what you just said, right
(31:15):
there was so powerful, and ifyou're listening it's not by
accident.
And I truly believe that Godwanted you to hear this today.
So take that in and start thehealing process while you can.
And why?
While you are able to?
Because we don't want to evergive people their flowers when
they're gone.
Let's do it now.
(31:37):
Amen, you know you brought meback again to the earlier
question, and that was you know,and and this is what I would
tell you Canel can jump in onthis as well that how often that
we see a reversal of faith whenthere is loss, that we see a
reversal of faith when there isloss, and so you know.
Going back to that, how cansomeone maintain that?
(31:57):
How can they maintain theirfaith when they feel angry?
Speaker 3 (32:01):
angry with God if I'm being honest angry with God and
feeling abandoned after loss.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
What would?
Speaker 1 (32:08):
you say there, yes, and I think that's a very strong
point.
You know, how do you maintainfaith when you feel angry?
One of the things, even growingup as a younger girl younger
girl I remember, you know,hearing people say you know,
don't, don't be angry with God,don't get you know.
Just through my ownrelationship with God and
(32:34):
through my own grief, I realizedGod can handle my anger, god
can handle your anger.
You know, the Bible says beangry but sin not.
And so sometimes we feel angry.
Anger is one of the first ofthe five main stages of grief.
So we're going to feel angry.
(32:55):
Sometimes you're angry at thedoctors, you're angry at other
family members, you're angry atthe situation.
Sometimes you're angry at theperson who passed.
Now that goes a little deeper.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
That does.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
It goes a little deeper and with the clientele
that I see, oftentimes I findand again even transparency
being angry that a person didn'tdo the things that they should
have done.
And then you startrationalizing, you start saying,
well, maybe they would havelived longer if they did this or
that, and so sometimes you'reangry about those things.
Sometimes you're angry aboutthose things, you know a person
(33:32):
who may, you know, have othersubstance usage that may lead to
their demise.
So you're angry that, oh, ifthey wouldn't have done that,
they would still be here.
They robbed me of the benefitof their life.
And so the anger can go in somany different directions.
Being a Christian, you have tounderstand that God can handle
(33:54):
your anger.
God can handle any emotion, anyemotion that we go through.
And so when you're honest withGod and I must take a pause here
to say when my second husbandpassed, I remember saying to God
I said I know this is not yourcharacter, but I want you to
know how I feel, so I'm going tosay it I said I feel like I'm
(34:23):
being punished.
I said, but I know, I know, soI preface it by saying God,
there's nothing in your word tosupport what I'm about to say
Other than but I got to tell youhow I feel right now, that I
feel like I'm being punished.
Tell you how I feel right nowthat I feel like I'm being
punished.
He says, daughter and lo, Iwill be with you always.
And so he let me know.
(34:43):
It's okay to tell me how youfeel, it's okay to share our
feelings, even with God, becausehe says when we're open, when
we're honest you know, david wasa man after God's own heart
because he was open and he washonest, he said God, I did it,
it was me, I did it, and so it'sokay to let God know how we
feel, so he can take that andthen he can continue to mold you
(35:04):
and shape you into how he'sfortifying you even through your
grief.
Amen, grief causes you toexperience God on a whole
different level.
It's one thing to read thathe's a rock in a weary land, but
when you have to know he's yourrock, when you have to know
(35:26):
that for yourself, it takes on awhole new meaning.
My relationship with Goddeepened when I lost both
spouses, and so people wouldlook and how is that?
Because now no one has to tellme that he's a way maker, a
miracle worker, that when you'relonely he can be there for you,
(35:50):
that you don't have tocompromise your character and
who you are, because your fleshgets a hold of you.
So no one has to tell me that.
I experienced that.
So to have that experience on awhole nother level with God,
it's just like wow.
You know it's not just a song,it's not just something we hear
(36:12):
doing praise and worship.
I know it for myself now, likeI never had known before.
So that's how your faith canoverride the feeling of anger,
because feeling the anger isjust an emotion.
We're going to experiencedifferent feelings.
So oftentimes you have to notlet your emotions leave you, but
(36:35):
let your rational mind leaveyou, along with the word of God.
God's word is going to line upRight, right, and so it's okay
to have those feelings.
Feelings can ebb and flow,they'll go up, they'll go down,
but the fact is, my God is stilla healer, my God is still able,
right.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Yes, you know, you got me when you said God can
handle your anger.
I've never thought of that thatway.
He is the almighty God.
He can handle it, all you know,and so he created the emotion.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
almighty god, he can handle it all you know, and so
he created the emotion.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
So obviously he can handle the emotion you know, and
so yeah you didn't, you evendropped something right there
you did, you put it in yourshando, it's in my shando, it's
deep in my spirit now it's notgoing nowhere and and I and I
understand others feel this aswell.
I'm telling you this is suchhealing to so many people right
now.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Yeah, Like this is what they need.
And can I add this Elder, yes,yes, please.
When we hide our emotions, theyshow up in other ways.
That can lead to complicatedgrief.
There are two kinds of griefcomplicated and uncomplicated
grief.
So let's say someone is reallyfatal and angry and then they
(37:52):
have a denial and shock.
We know that's like we're juststuck at the point of learning
of their demise.
We have the depression.
The bargaining is the askingwhy?
Why, my loved one?
Why this time?
You know they were going tohave a birthday in just two days
.
Why?
Why you know they were going tohave a birthday in just two
days.
Why?
Why?
It's the unanswered question.
But when you, when you startthinking about your emotions and
(38:15):
your feelings, it's OK to havethem and experience them, but
you just don't stay stuck inthem.
And that's where the impairmentcan come in.
If you hide that, you feelangry and you don't want to tell
somebody Like what I justshared with you.
And now the masses in terms ofGod, I feel like you're
(38:36):
punishing me, but I know thefact is you're not.
Yeah, you see.
So I put him in remembrance.
I know this is not what it is.
I just feel like this and Iwant to tell you how I feel he
can handle that.
He can work with that, becauseyou're being open and you're
being honest.
And sometimes if we don't saythat, if we don't get it out
(38:59):
because we don't feel in a safeplace or amongst safe people
where we can say that to, thenwe start hiding it and it shows
up in other areas that cause usto be impaired, whether it's
substance usage, other what wecall process, addiction, Process
addiction.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
So it starts showing up.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Yes, process addictions gambling, different
type of things, pornography,different type of addictions
that are not directly related tosubstance usage.
So we call those processedaddictions.
So we hide our feelings and wemask them and we start secreting
other things, because we reallyfeel angry and somebody told us
(39:43):
don't be angry at God, so wehide it we hide it.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
That's what happens when we don't have angry at God,
so we hide it?
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Oh right, that's what happened when we don't have the
full knowledge to speak onsomething and we just say
something and not reallyprocessing the words that we're
about to deliver to someone thatis not in a state of process,
right Like they may not be readyand you know they're dealing
with quite a bit at that moment.
I'm glad that you said that.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
You know, I I wasn't aware of that as a as a
secondary emotion, like we'vewe've seen where people become
hyper-focused on on work.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
Or or the, or, for instance, a parent on the next
child, on that, you know, thesibling of the child.
Yes, that's a child or theparent that they didn't lose
yeah then they focus on the onthe other parent.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
We've seen hyperactivity on that.
We've definitely seen.
When someone has lost a spousewe typically see that they have
kind of lost a sense of theiridentity and purpose, you know,
especially if they were doingmultiple things in a healthy
marriage.
We've seen that quite a bitright when they the loss is so
(40:52):
profound that the next step isthat they have had a significant
crisis of faith, right, so it's.
It's both of those, it's all ofthose things that you said
there.
Oh, wow, like you got.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
It can be a battle.
It can really be a battle thatsomeone has to, and that's why
you know it's so importanthaving a relationship with God,
but also having a relationshipwith other people, being around
other people.
Again, I think the trick of theenemy is what we know is to
steal, kill and destroy, and sowhen he gets us to isolate and
(41:26):
withdraw, now you're notfellowshipping with other people
.
I struggle with that.
I struggle to come to churchevery Sunday knowing, you know,
my husband and I would sit nextto each other, right here, and
now I come to church and he'snot with me, and so I really
went through a season of thatwhere it was just hard to come.
(41:47):
And sometimes we'll find thatit's hard to go to the place
where you all used to frequent,whether it be a restaurant or
other places where you used togo.
It's kind of hard to kind ofget back into that because your
half is not there with you,right, you know?
And so you have to try to getre-acclimated to, like I said,
to that new norm without them.
(42:08):
And here's the thing it doestake time.
It takes time.
And walking with someone duringthat journey, checking in with
them, you know saying hey, howyou doing.
Hey, you want to go to lunch?
Hey, let's go here, let's gothere, and it's okay if they
choose not to.
But just knowing someone wouldoffer to do something with you
(42:30):
can be a great help.
Yeah, it can really be a greathelp.
That's good Dr.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
Robinson, I'm sorry when you said that it had me
think something.
I wanted to ask you Becausewhen you had said you want to
have that community, that kindof helps you do it right.
And I was wondering, like, doyou want someone that doesn't
maybe know your loss or someonethat does know your loss?
So it had me go down adifferent rabbit hole as far as,
like, let's say, if you're Idon't want to say dating, but
kind of just seeking out thatother companionship again, how
(43:01):
do you broach the subject with anew person as far as your loss
and how you still grieving it,maybe, maybe grieving it or how
to?
I don't know how I'm trying tosay this and make it okay to
keep continuing to talk aboutthis person you've lost but, at
the same time, continue to learnthis new person you're trying
to learn.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Yeah, I'm trying to say how do you find that balance
?
That's a good question, babe,that is.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
Yeah, I think that is a good question.
I think pretty much with with,with anything else, you have to
use wisdom because obviously, ifyou're you know, if you're
dating someone new, you want tomake sure that you have that
balance right.
That's the thing of knowingwhen you're healed.
(43:44):
Being healed doesn't mean youwon't ever think about your
loved one again.
I have this pact with God.
I said, okay, god.
So when I go into glory andwhen I see, I say I'm going to
have two husbands up thereBecause you know, am I going to
say hey Jeff, hey Nathaniel,which one you know?
And so that's just my little,and again that's me being
(44:05):
humorous about it, but againthat keeps me.
It just keeps me laughing, evenif I laughed to myself and
within myself.
You know, because we know, oncewe get up there, you know we're
not in our carnal state, sowe're not going to be thinking
that we can all be sisters andbrothers.
But the other thing about it is, you know, finding that balance
(44:26):
.
Making sure you've done yourhealing work in terms of the
great doesn't mean you're notgoing to.
You know you're going to alwayshave that person, especially if
you love that person, going toalways have them a part of your
heart.
But you also this is where youlearn God's capacity.
So God has a great capacity tolove, right, and we know that
(44:48):
because he so loved us, right.
So so here it is, got twohusbands and and maybe, maybe
the Lord is leading anotherhusband to find me, right.
And so I believe God can stillgive you the capacity to love
someone else, because he's God,he's big like that.
Yes, he can still do that.
(45:08):
But what is important again isthat you do your work.
Know that you've gone throughthat process of healing, because
if you, if you're still inangry mode, then you're.
It's not going to be asfruitful when you're meeting
someone else.
You may not even be ready, butyou have to know if you're ready
to date.
You have to know if you'reready to move forward with
(45:31):
someone else in a different way,and sometimes God uses you.
Know whether it's therapists,whether it's your pastor,
whether it's like you guys arein couples.
You lead our couples ministry.
The Bible says there's safety ina multitude of counselors.
Counselors doesn't have toalways be the licensed ones.
You guys are in a role andposition of counseling.
You counsel people and so,being able to know you know what
(46:02):
, am I ready to move ahead withsomeone else?
And so, being open and honestwith yourself in terms of where
you are, your station at thatpoint in your life, am I ready
to share me with someone else?
And understanding that you canhave the capacity to share you
with them even though you haveshared with someone else?
Speaker 3 (46:20):
Amen and when you said that it took me someplace
else.
So, though you're ready, whatif you have children from that
previous relationship?
Then you both have that loss,right?
How do you know when your childis ready, or how do you get
them to the point of being ready, or how can you help them deal
with whatever emotions they havegoing on from that loss, as
(46:40):
well to get to a space, toaccept someone new, or you know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
And that is very, very key and that can only take
time.
I don't even think there's acookie cutter answer to that.
When you have like, this iswhere family therapy can come in
.
When it's time to make thatnext step.
Before you introduce your kids,say to someone new, you know
you talk to your kids, just seewhere they are.
Sometimes kids are never ready,you know, or may have difficulty
(47:11):
getting ready.
I'll put it like that we don'tnever want to say never, but you
know sometimes and I haveclients that are adult, adult
children, not like little kids,but they're adults and they just
have not accepted that momremarried.
You know for various reasonsthat mom remarried.
You know for various reasons.
And that's why now, when youbring in like the LMFT, which is
(47:31):
a, you know, a therapist thatdeals in family therapy, that's
when you help with those typesof transitions.
You know when you help talkabout the person and who they
meant to.
They will always be.
This person isn't coming totake their place because their
place can't be taken.
And this is where you highlightyou know the capacity to love is
(47:53):
so great because God loves us,so you have to help your kids
and help them see that you canlearn to like this person, you
know.
But again, that does take time.
It's not something that you canforce, because if you try to
force it it may not work the wayit would if it was just
(48:14):
organically.
You just have to show love onall fronts and make sure you're
not pushing this new person ontoyour kids either, or onto the
whole family unit, becausesometimes we see that happening
like we're ready but the familymay not be ready, you know.
Now does that mean you don'tdate, or you don't introduce
(48:35):
them, or you don't live life?
No, you just have to try tofind a way to navigate that, you
know, taking into considerationhow the kids feel, how other
family members feel, you know,and through family therapy you
can find that out, becausesometimes people may have other
reasons why they may not evenwant to open up to someone else.
(48:57):
That's true, that's so true.
So they may not be ready toopen up for their own personal
reasons.
May not be that this is not agood person or that they don't
like the person.
It's just, I like my daddy, andthat was my daddy and nobody
else is going to be my daddy.
That's true, and so sometimesthey have to work through that
(49:18):
Exactly.
You know that takes time towork through that.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
Right.
I will say this though that youknow when you are going through
the grieving process and ofcourse you have far more
expertise than I do.
But some of the things that weoften will say to couples that
ask us for counsel is we alwayssay you know, give it to God.
(49:42):
He's the ultimate counselor,but he also knows grief better
than anyone in the grief processbecause he gave up his only
begotten son sohe knows exactly that feeling.
And if you?
Stay in constant communicationand, just like you said, you
know it.
You know grief will take you toanother level of communication
with the Lord you know, he'llgive it to you.
Speaker 3 (50:04):
He'll give it to you.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
He'll give it to you and and what I he will, he will,
and what I've often told othercouples that kind of said this
as well too just don't try andforce someone, just like what
you said.
Elder michelle, dr michelle, isthat you?
Know, sometimes people, becausethey don't like the feeling of
being alone and they're missingthat spouse.
Right, they will force someonea square a square peg into a
(50:27):
circle peg hole right and, andso we don't want you to do that.
So don't rush it Right.
Take the time that you need, umand and God will always provide
right he always will provide.
Speaker 1 (50:40):
And actually in the same way of like how you, you,
you all deal with couples andmarried couples.
But just think about, even evenwith couples who have been
divorced, and then mom and theirdad is introducing a new person
, you know, the divorce is overand now someone else is coming
in.
It's pretty much that sameprocess.
Sometimes kids may not bewilling, you know, and so it
(51:03):
does take time.
You have to help them processthrough that and just you know
in a loving way that you're notforcing this other person into
their lives, but having thatunderstanding that they're not
taking trying to take someoneelse's place.
So that has to be cultivatedand that takes time.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
What if the person and you want to come to them,
you're the other family memberthat is recognizing this grief
has just gone far past.
It's become complicated grief,right, you know they're in that
phase.
But what if they don't want tosee a Christian based counselor?
You know what, what type oftherapist like would you suggest
(51:44):
to them?
Or how would you help tocultivate that person to start
to see the Lord again?
You know when yes, when they'vetaken themselves away from them
?
Speaker 1 (51:57):
And that's a good question as well, because you
know that's one of the reasonswhy I have people who ask me oh
well, you have a PhD inChristian counseling, but I went
back to get a second master'sin clinical mental health
counseling because you do haveto be licensed in the state.
When you have a Christiancounseling you don't have to be
licensed, but pretty much you'rekind of limited to faith-based
(52:21):
communities or institutions soyou can teach there, but again,
the credentialing goes for thestate that you're licensed in.
And so many people, one of thethings I said well, I went back
to get the other, not just fordegree's sake, but because the
world is not all Christian yetand so I need to be able to help
(52:41):
the atheists, I need to be ableto minister to the agnostic.
I don't have to quote chapterverse, but you're going to know
I know a little something aboutJesus.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
Amen.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
Right, so and that, and that's all of us.
Right, that's all of us.
Because what about the unsavedthat still may come into my
office out of their hurt and outof their pain?
I'm not going to first ask dothey know Jesus?
That's not going to be my firstquestion.
They come to me out of theirhurt and out of their pain and
(53:16):
somewhere along the way God willopen up a door for me to sell
Jesus or tell them about awitness, Jesus.
And so support groups, a lot ofhospitals, a lot of behavioral
mental health facilities havesupport groups for those who may
not want the faith-based.
(53:37):
They may not want the Christiantherapist, they may not want
the pastor or the you know, orthe intercessor, Sometimes
talking to someone that you cantrust, you know a professional
therapist who may not be aChristian therapist Like I said,
there are many out there whodon't also do Christian therapy.
(53:59):
I have people call my officelooking for a Christian
therapist.
They automatically give them tome, you know, because I don't
shy down, because I'm aChristian, you know, and so
they't shy down, because I'm aChristian, you know.
And so they can go to aprofessional therapist, they can
go to someone whom they trust.
Like I said, a lot of supportgroups and individual behavioral
health facilities also offergrief therapy.
(54:22):
You know, sometimes throughtheir insurance they can seek
out behavioral health for griefand they can.
They can still find help evenif they don't seek a Christian
counselor.
Speaker 3 (54:34):
That's so good and I think it's so important,
Everything you just said there,Dr Robinson.
The fact is, we don't know whatwe don't know.
So a lot of that informationjust gave somebody, somebody
probably doesn't know, sothey're just dealing with it
internally or in their own spaceversus realizing they do have
these resources, that they canseek out, even, to a certain
point, free resources.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
Yeah, so that's so important, yes, absolutely a lot
of a lot of.
I.
I have clients who deal with um, you know, um, body imaging
issues, a lot of my young girls,you know, still a certain way.
And crown counseling uh, Ithink they're in Crown Point,
but there's so many differentresources that are available in
(55:13):
Illinois as well as in Indiana,and they are free resources
support groups, you know, fordifferent things, and so even
just trying to network and yourinsurance company can can
oftentimes they know of a lot ofresources too, and so I would
just invite people to resource,I mean to network, to find those
resources.
(55:34):
I believe God will always, whenyou are seeking, he will always
make sure that you find a way toget to him If it's something
that's going to enhance yourcommitment, your level with him
or even just your awareness ofGod.
You know, for the people whodon't know Christ, it is his
desire that we come to know him,so he's going to put you in the
(55:57):
right direction.
Amen, whether you know it ornot, he's going to put you on
the pathway to righteousnessthat is so nice For his namesake
right.
He's going to do that for you.
And where you, he said if youseek, you will find him, even if
you don't even know you seekinghim.
Speaker 2 (56:17):
He will find a way to to help you right where you are
.
Amen to that, you know well wedo have our audience, we have a
very broad audience and we thankGod for that.
So you know, for someone thatis in a different country, or
you know, or in a differentstate, you know, would you mind
giving us maybe three practicalsteps for recentering or
(56:42):
reconnecting with one's faithafter this period of doubt or
anger?
If you can give them, like justif you can give them your top
three that maybe they can do intheir hometown, home country, in
order to start bringingthemselves?
Speaker 3 (56:56):
full center.
Speaker 2 (56:57):
Yeah, full center, healing God's way.
Speaker 1 (57:01):
Healing definitely takes place the more we're open
and honest about where we are.
Just flat out, god.
This is where I am.
You know, this is how I feel.
You know, even with those thatdon't know Jesus talk and feel
(57:22):
certain kinds of ways, and sobeing able to just be open and
honest with where you're at waysand so being able to just be
open and honest with whereyou're at and, again, not
isolating, so that you can beable to talk to someone, someone
can steer you where you need togo, someone can help, put you
on on a pathway that can providesome type of assistance or
(57:44):
support for you.
And, again, that's why it's soimportant.
It's so important to stillconnect with people and not
again withdraw and isolate, andbe able to get on the pathway.
So being able to seek resourceswherever you are in your
community, whether it's faithbased or not.
We have a lot of communityresources and people who sponsor
(58:10):
people just to get support andhelp.
So being able to reach out andto find someone that can help
you.
You know, understand who.
You know you got to understandwhat is happening.
What do I need to do?
Getting involved in grief work,sometimes social support group,
and then those of us who havebeen affected and impacted by
(58:34):
grief, reaching out, being ahelper being someone to help
others process their grief.
You know so it's like you knowme.
I went to school for courtreporting.
Everybody knows me.
No, I was a court reporter forlike over 20 something years.
One rotator cuff, the doctorsays I hope you know how to do
something else.
(58:55):
And so counseling was it.
My husband would say youcounseled, let's just do that.
I said really.
And so being able to helpsomeone else because now I know
the significance of being intherapy, going through that
grief, going through thedepression and the anxiety,
(59:15):
because not only is it the griefprocess but it's still those
other component parts that goalong with that.
If you've gone through it,being able to help and support
others in different states anddifferent communities, to go
through it being an advocate,help someone else, just like
you've been helped.
Speaker 3 (59:34):
Amen.
Speaker 1 (59:35):
Support someone else in your church.
Being a part I was a part ofthe lay counseling ministry.
I think after COVID hit, wekind of fizzled a little bit.
Kind of fizzled a little bit.
But being able to do the workwithin wherever you fit,
wherever you are, whether it'son the job, I think there's
(59:55):
always a door that can be openfor you to show, to let God's
light shine through you,especially if you've been
through something.
If you've been throughsomething, it's for you, but
it's also for someone else too.
Amen, yes, I wholeheartedlyagree.
Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
That was powerful in every possible aspect, and I
know if I were listening on theother side though I'm listening
on the inside of this podcast Iwould want to know, if I'm in
this local community, how Icould reach out to you, how
could I, maybe if we wanted toget services from you or become
(01:00:33):
one of your patients?
Could you please share with ushow they could reach out to you
and what ways they could?
And even if they are locally orif they're not, is there
possibilities if they're not?
Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
Telehealth.
Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
Yeah, do you have any telehealth services?
Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
yes, actually actually telehealth.
I work for a company calledgrow therapycom and you can look
me up on grow therapycom andyou can just, you know, look for
dr michelle robinson and um,they'll ask you in terms of what
area you want, but if you putmy name in then everything will
(01:01:10):
come up and so that that companyis exclusively through
telehealth and so it's virtualand I see clients in the evening
on that side and sometimesduring the day, but I also work
for clients who want to do faceto face.
I work at a company, midAmerica Psychological and
Counseling Services in MunsterIndiana.
(01:01:31):
It's right near the Red Lobsterin Munster Indiana.
So I see clients face-to-face aswell as virtual, through Mid
America, as well as growththerapy.
Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
Amen.
So are there any otherlanguages that you?
Have to ask Because you knowthey may reach out, and so we'll
tell them.
Type you a message and put itthrough Google.
Translate and we'll see whatcan happen work on too.
Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
I want to learn Spanish, so, but but definitely
with all of the, the technology,with all of the, you know ways
that people can communicate.
Someone can steer you to whatyou need.
I just, I just believe thatsomeone can steer you to the
services and to the help thatyou need.
Sometimes we just have to openit up and ask somebody.
We just have to say this andyou never know someone.
You know, you can just be overtalking and somebody hears you
(01:02:31):
and say, hey, you know what, Iknow that, I know that, but you
just have to again.
I just believe God's got a wayto get to you what you need.
Another resource is PsychologyToday.
Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
Psychology Today is a resource where all clinicians
are listed, in that it's like adatabase for therapists
throughout.
If you live in Canada, if youlive in Germany, we are
everywhere, and so you just goonline Psychology Today and you
put in whatever area that you'refrom, city and state, and you
(01:03:05):
can find a list of therapists inyour area right near you that's
a big database for forclinicians and that's where
we're listed in psychology todayall right.
Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
So now we have the international connection too
look at god you cannot say youdon't have the answers with that
.
So well, I just want to tellyou thank you so much.
Elder dr michelle robinson, Ihave to say both because you
have multiple titles but we areso grateful that you joined us
on the podcast today and, aswe're concluding out, we think
(01:03:42):
she did tell us the whole truth,right and nothing.
And nothing but the truth.
Right, it's so good, so well.
We will say this once again toyou, dr Robinson, thank you so
much for telling us the truth.
Speaker 3 (01:03:55):
Thank you so much for telling us the whole truth.
Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
And thank you for letting us tell you, and you to
tell us, nothing but the truth.
Speaker 3 (01:04:04):
So help me.
Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
God.
Thank you, dr Robinson, we loveyou.
Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
Thank you, we love you too.
welcome back everyone .
It is the me too.
We talk podcast and, yes, it isthe truth serum series, where
we promise to tell you the truth, the entire truth and nothing
but the truth so help me god nowwe have a great episode yet
again.
I get excited.
What?
Speaker 3 (00:25):
No, all of them are great.
What do you mean?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
yet again.
He's so right.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
You're implying that something isn't great that we do
.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I know, but I'm really excited about our topic
today and I'm excited about ourspecial guest.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
It is so many good things that are going on, but we
also want to.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Even though we have a very lighthearted podcast, I
think we can say that often wehave to be realistic and talk
about all aspects Facts.
So, just in case you're notaware of what this podcast is
all about, we are here to helpcouples and families get from me
to we, one couple at a time,amen.
So that means if you aremarried yes.
(01:02):
If you are seriously dating,yes.
Yes.
If you're engaged.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
That's the best.
You are married.
Yes, if you are seriouslydating.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yes, yes, if you're engaged right, that's the best
thing you could ever do.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Get engaged, yes, get engaged.
Get engaged To get married, sothat you can get married.
Well, you have come to theright place, and so we are going
to go deeper.
This holiday season, there'salways cheer, there's always
great things that happen duringthe holidays, but what if I told
you that the holidays, a timemeant for joy and celebration,
can be one of the hardest timesof the year for those who have
(01:32):
lost a loved one?
Speaker 3 (01:33):
No, that's facts.
That's, if when you say that,me myself, it does hit home, I
think about my dad this time ofthe year, because you know we
haven't had him.
What since what?
16 years?
Yeah, haven't had him.
What since what?
16 years?
Yeah, he never met the boys.
So you know, you all, youreflect, yeah, you reflect, and
you kind of just wonder, what ifit?
Comes to, especially when itcomes to holidays, yeah,
especially when it comes toholidays.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
So, you know, my husband just brought up, you
know, talking about losing hisparent.
But what if it's a spouse?
Um, you know a significantother, a child, right.
A sibling, a cousin and even afriend, right, the festive
season can trigger deep feelingsof grief and loneliness, you
(02:13):
know.
So we want to make sure thatyou all are there with us when
we're talking about that.
And let's not forget what thispodcast title is all about, and
it titled when holidays hurt.
Yeah, I know, today we'rejoined by a licensed therapist.
Uh, her name is michellerobison.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Doctor, do you guys put some okay, we're gonna put
that in there.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
License on the name doctor who has not only guided
countless couples through thegrief of losing a loved one, but
has also experienced someprofound loss herself, and we
hope that we can explore thattoday.
But she's also going to teachus today, through conversation,
how to navigate through thosechallenging times.
So I want to give them a greatstatistic that they may not be
(02:58):
thinking of, but statistics showthat about 2.5 million people
die in the United Statesannually.
Okay, so each are leaving anaverage of five grieving people
behind.
Wow, multiplied by 2.5 million.
Wow, that's huge.
That is.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
I mean, I'm not sure what the population of the US is
, but obviously let's just useround numbers and say 10 million
people are grieving somebodyand I'm a part of that statistic
myself, Like I said earlier.
Like I said, with the loss ofmy dad I'm a part of that.
So I know what you're saying,but that's still a lot
nevertheless, no matter what thenumber is.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
That's a thought that you don't really think about.
And if you go further from, ifyou're losing a child and I'm
going to give more statisticsbecause we feel in our heart and
our spirit, god dealt with uson this one.
We have so many loved ones thatwe know of that have left this
earth in this season, right, andso when, when the season comes
(03:58):
back around, how do we equipthem?
You know, not our way, not theworld's way, but God's way, yeah
do we equip?
them.
You know, not our way, not theworld's way, but God's way, you
know.
So, if you've lost a parent, ifyou've lost a child, if you've
lost anyone, we want to makesure that you have everything
you need to help you recenterand reconnect, you know, either
(04:19):
with the rest of your family,with your spouse's family, and
then, most importantly, how canyou reconnect and recenter with
God?
Speaker 3 (04:27):
man, that's deep and it hits different too, like I
said, because of the fact like,for instance, losing a parent is
different than losing a child,because a parent you know,
they've lived a certain amountof life versus a child, no
parent wants to outlive theirchild, no, so it just hits
totally different, especiallylike this time of year with
Thanksgiving, christmas, newYear's, when you just wonder
(04:49):
what if, especially for a child.
That's just man, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Well, before we dive deeper, let me introduce our
esteemed guest.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
We want to give honor where honor is due.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Michelle Robinson has been a dedicated servant of the
Lord since, you know, almostchildbirth.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Let's just put it that way, right.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
And she has, since 2008, served among 100 elders at
Family Christian Center, wherewe also serve under the guidance
of our pastor, steve Muncy.
Michelle has held variousleadership roles, including
intercessory prayer, meaningshe's a prayer warrior.
You want a therapist?
That's a prayer warrior.
(05:29):
Ok, you can be strategic inprayer and take the enemy down.
Not only is that, but she is inthe baptism ministry, she's on
the elders council and as ateacher and mentor for eldership
and catechism candidates.
In addition to her churchleadership, michelle is a
licensed therapist specializingin grief counseling Amen.
(05:50):
She's passionate about helpingindividuals and families
navigate the complexities ofloss and finding healing through
faith, but on top of all ofthat, she is also an
accomplished author.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Do you hear me Give?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
it to me.
Yes, her first book.
Why has the Mighty Fallen?
I love the title Right.
It was published and it'savailable on Amazon, on Barnes
and Noble and through ChristianFaith Publishing Company.
And she is the proud mother ofone beautiful daughter, arielle
Amani, and she eagerly, you know, awaits the plan for what's
(06:26):
next for her.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
God has got it waiting for her right.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
So you know, without further ado, let's give honor
where honor is due.
Elder Michelle therapist.
Licensed therapistextraordinaire.
Thank you for joining us on theMedia.
We Talk podcast.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Amen, amen.
Thank you for having me.
You two are one of my favoritecouples at our church and I'm
just honored to be here and tobe a part of this event taking
place at this time.
Thank you so very much forhaving me.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
I receive that, we receive that.
You're one of my special peopletoo.
Come on now.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yes, amen, yes you know you want to glean from
someone that has experience andunderstanding.
And that is one thing I can say100% about you.
It just pours off of you.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
You know you exude it right.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
It permeates the room .
So when we get close it'll belike, ooh, let me lean in and
get a little bit me lean in andget a little bit Well.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I tend to say if I'm anything, it's definitely, you
know, to the glory of God.
I enjoy working and loving onGod's people, and I think that's
what we're here to do, and so,in any way that I can be of an
assist, to help someone in theirjourney, I do believe that
that's part of my God-givenassignment, and so I'm always
just ready to dive on in.
So again, thank you for havingme.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Amen, amen.
And again I want to just thankyou again for what you just said
there, cause I know anytimewe've kind of ushered someone
toward you to kind of seek thatguidance, you openheartedly
accept them and kind of helpthem maneuver through that
newfound space of grief and theycome out better than we gave
them to you.
Oh, that's true, that's so true, they always come out better
(08:13):
you know.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
But you know, if you're OK with us, we're ready
to dive in.
Because, we have so manyquestions, and now not only do I
feel like this is going toanswer the many questions that
the couples have asked usthrough Prep for Marriage and
who just reach out to us on theregular basis.
I just think I have questionsmyself right you know, and I
(08:35):
know Connell does too, so youknow if you're okay with it.
If you wouldn't mind, can youshare a bit about your personal
journey with grief and how ithas shaped your approach to
therapy?
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Well, sure, sure, I'll definitely be more than
willing to share with that.
Well, my personal journeyinvolving having lost two
spouses, one in 1999, mydaughter was just two, and then
more recently, in 2019, mydaughter was 22.
But my journey has has been,you know, I'd always counseled a
(09:13):
lot of times, counsel withinthe church, but then, when grief
, you know, came, came at mydoor by losing a spouse, with
medical complications in bothinstances.
One of the reasons why Icurrently work in the
underserved communities AfricanAmerican communities
predominantly is because we tendto have difficulties and,
(09:38):
unfortunately, our demise isbecause of hypertension,
congestive heart failure anddiabetes, and at least two of
those knocked at my door withrespect to my spouse and being
married.
But, yes, it was such a cryingtime when it happened because
(09:59):
the first time my daughter wasonly two years old and, of
course, that was veryheart-wrenching because it's
like well, god, what am I goingto do now?
Raise my daughter by myself,and I thought we'd be literally
married forever.
So, one of the things when lifetrajectory changes for you and
(10:19):
you don't know what else to dobut rely on God, yes, you have
to rely on the Lord to see youthrough and to carry you through
.
Now I also believe that God usesother people and, again, I
didn't always ascribe to therapy.
Until that time, actually, Iwas taking my daughter to a
(10:40):
pediatrician and there was adoor that said serenity
counseling.
And I knew serenity meant peace, calm and quiet.
And I poked my head in the doorand the gentleman said, ma'am,
may I help you?
And I kind of got a littlestartled and I tried to turn
around and go the other way andhe said come on in, come on in.
So he told me what he didcounseling and that really
started my counseling journeyand I learned a lot about grief.
(11:04):
I learned a lot that I needed togo through that I just really
wasn't prepared for.
I grew up in the church andchurch certainly had its place
and helped me and individualsprayed for me and, you know,
just helped me in such a myriadof ways.
But I also realized that Ineeded to understand what was
(11:26):
happening.
I needed to understand how toprocess grief, and that is
something that I gained in thatjourney and so that actually
helped me for the next time andyou know, years later, 2019, I
would go through it right beforeCOVID hit, and so I felt I was
a little bit better prepared.
But again, even when it hits,you still can't be fully, fully
(11:50):
prepared because no one wants toget that call, no one wants to
hear what they heard and seewhat they've seen, and so those
are some areas that you know inmy personal journey.
But God has been faithful andalways has been, but it's been
tough, but he's been faithful.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
You know.
So you said you started yourjourney at that point.
Now I know you have quite a fewaccreditations behind it.
If you wouldn't mind justclarifying for our listeners
some of those accreditations?
So I know you're an LPC, anLMHCA, adhd, ccsp.
Can you, outside of it beinginitials right, can you help us
(12:36):
out understand what that means?
Sure, Sure.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
So an LPC is a licensed professional counselor.
That is the tier of licensurefor the state of Illinois.
I'm duly licensed, meaning Ihold two licenses in the state
of Illinois and Indiana.
Indiana's credentialinglicensure is a licensed mental
(13:06):
health counseling associate, sothat's the LMHCA.
I am currently working on theLCPC, which is a clinical
portion of licensure, which islike a second tier licensure.
I went on to get furtheraccreditation in ADHD, which is
attention deficit hyperactivitydisorder, as well as autism.
My mentors were instructing methat it's good for a therapist
(13:29):
to have a niche, something thatthey feel they can kind of focus
on and become a little moreknowledgeable in a particular
area.
And because when I did myinternship in Holwood, illinois,
the proprietor gave me a lot ofyoung children and most of them
had ADHD and I kind of backedmyself into it.
(13:51):
But actually I come to enjoyand to learn a lot about autism
and ADHD and I was able tobecome certified in those areas
as well.
I also work with individualsdealing with grief predominantly
, and as I look when they talkabout the trajectory of my life,
(14:11):
I get to see why I had to gothrough it, so I can now help
others go through grief.
But most of my population dealswith grief ADHD, anxiety,
depression, traumaticexperiences and I actually do
couple therapies, so those areand I do career counseling as
(14:33):
well, and so those are thingsthat you know.
I'm always looking to haveclients.
I'm always willing to help andassist in those areas.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Hey man, hey man.
So you're saying Amen.
So what you're saying is thatyou do know something about this
.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Just a little bit that.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
I do receive that, I do receive.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Just a little bit.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
But if we're staying in the vein of the holidays, and
in your opinion, what are someof the common challenges people
face after losing someone?
I don't want to put a timeframe on it, like losing someone
within a year or two or justmore recently, but what are some
challenges people tend to face,when the holidays do come
around, when it comes to dealingwith that grief?
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Sure, a lot of the common challenges is not only do
you lose the person physically,but you lose everything that's
attached to them.
You lose everything that theybrought with them to your life,
whether it's financially,whether it's emotionally.
However they supported you, youlose all of that.
(15:39):
In cases where grandma orgrandpa has passed away, they
may have been the ones to pickup the kids after school while
mom and dad are still working,and so you know, you lose
everything.
You lose the value that theybrought to your family, and so
life has to readjust.
You have to prepare for a newnorm.
(16:02):
When you've experienced a lifeand a death, rather, for those
that you love, and dependingupon their position or their
role in the family if it wasfather, if it was mother, if it
was grandparent, if it was achild you lose what they brought
to your family as well aspersonally.
They're not there at the dinnertable, you don't see them, you
(16:24):
don't get to buy presents forthem, and so it can be very
daunting and very heavy aroundthis time of the holiday and of
the holiday season, and so, astherapists, we often do talk to
our clients and tell them waysthat they can learn to work
through.
You have to process throughgrief.
It's not something that you canjump over and get over right
(16:47):
away.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
I never thought about it like that.
I mean I realized the truth, Irealized you missed that person
and you miss them in your life,but I never thought about it
like that.
I mean I realize you miss thatperson and you miss them in your
life, but I never thought aboutthe position they hold and all
that they encompass, and I neverthought about it like that.
That's oh man.
That's just a different way ofthinking, you're right.
So if that be the standpoint,what coping strategies would you
suggest people can kind ofimplement during these times
(17:12):
when they might start feelingsome type of way as far as just
to kind of kind of push through?
Speaker 1 (17:18):
sure, learning.
One of the coping strategiescould be learning to celebrate
your loved one's legacy.
Learning to celebrate who theyare to you, who they are to you,
who they meant to you.
What type of significance, whattype of impact did they have
upon your life?
Oftentimes we talked about yourfive stages of grief, which is
(17:43):
anger, denial and shock,bargaining, depression and then
acceptance.
So while you're processingthrough, sometimes we just stay
stuck on the day we learned oftheir demise, the day we, you
know.
Oftentimes we know what we weredoing, you know where we were
when we learned of it, andsometimes it caused us to be
(18:05):
stuck in that dispensation oftime when we learn of their
death.
So, holidays and theirbirthdays, you know, when I talk
to my clients, I say theirbirthday is going to come every
year.
The day they pass is going tocome every year.
Father's Day, mother's Day,grandparents' Day these days are
going to come every year.
So what would help is learningof ways to memorialize your
(18:29):
loved one wearing their favoritecolor, going to a dinner spot
with the family Oftentimesthere's a tendency to withdraw
and isolate and so learning howto resist that desire to pull
away from people.
And oh, I'll just grieve bymyself.
I'll just cry, I'll just govisit the cemetery or do these
(18:53):
different things, but the morewe can learn to still insert
ourselves with other familymembers, because not only who
that loved one is or was to you,they were also in another role
with someone else.
So if it's grandma, they wereyour sibling's grandmother too.
If it's father and you haveother children, they're their
(19:15):
father too, and so sometimes weforget that we're in these other
roles.
You're still mom, you're stillauntie, you're still cousin,
you're still brother, you'restill uncle, and so other people
still need you to hold thatrole and hold that position,
even though the loved one islost.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
So sometimes knowing to try to resist that desire to
pull away, isolate until nobodyunderstands and it may not be
that they understand what you'regoing through personally but we
have to know that others aregoing through it as well.
They may go through it in adifferent way, but again,
(20:00):
they're going through as well,and so sometimes being able to
talk about it in those moments,to celebrate that person, who
they are to you, can be helpfulwhen you can do it together as a
family.
This was so harsh to me when myfirst husband's birthday would
come around my daughter and evenwith her stepdad, my second
husband, we celebrated her dad'sbirthday every year.
(20:25):
We'd get a cupcake, we'd lighta candle and my second husband
had no problem We'd sing happybirthday in his honor.
So, learning how to still honor, memorialize and celebrate the
life that god allowed thatperson to have for that season
you had them amen can be veryhelpful.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
Amen and elder roberts, everything you said was
amazing.
Or, dr roberts, let me be, Iwant to address you as such.
Everything you said was amazingand I think it's so true for
the fact that, because peopledon't know how to handle you,
quote unquote with kid gloves.
Sometimes, depending on how youfeel around certain seasons,
they won't bring it up unlessyou do so.
If you don't celebrate that lossor that person, then, like you
(21:05):
just said, they'll internalizeit as well because they don't
want to upset you.
And so that's you're so right.
It's so important that wecontinue to, to celebrate the
life that was lived and cherishwhat we've lost and allow others
around us to do the same,because once you start
pigeonholing somebody else inthat space because you don't
want to be around it or youcan't deal with it, then, for
(21:26):
lack of a better word, thatmemory is lost.
That person has lost us evenmore because we can't celebrate
them like we should.
And I want to back up one moretime.
I apologize, I didn't get achance to meet your first
husband, but your second I wouldhave never known.
That was your second, because ofthe love you and your daughter
showed for him.
Yeah, when I saw her with him,I would have never thought that
was anybody but his daughter forthe fact of how she loved on
(21:49):
him so I want to just commendyou all on that as well, for the
fact that he, like he, was ableto celebrate your first
husband's birthday with you allbecause family is family
regardless, and that's how youall treat him as family and that
should be a part of it as wellright and it yeah
Speaker 2 (22:03):
and I just want to say that you had, you had such,
and you still do have such agreat example.
That's why you can couple.
Counseling should come easy toyou because you know people can
say they've had one great loveof their life and you've had two
.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Right, and what does that say about you?
Speaker 2 (22:19):
So God has given so much to you, and I know that you
have have lost so much as welltoo, and so I appreciate that
that you are sharing with ustoday, and and I guess that
leads me to my next questionthat you know, when you had two
such great loves in your life,right, how was it that you were
(22:40):
able to do this?
And then, most importantly, howcan someone else maintain their
faith when they may feel angryor abandoned after a loss?
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Yes, I think that's a very good question.
I want to add one other thing,actually, yes, one other thing
to the previous question.
Learning to journal, likewriting your thoughts down, can
be another coping strategy.
Sometimes writing what we callin psychology a goodbye letter,
sometimes you may want to sharehey, such and such may did well
(23:13):
in gymnastics today, and eventhough you know physically of
course we know you're not goingto give that letter to them but
just being able to offload thatinformation in a letter to still
keep them up to date, it cankind of help lift the load of
grief on you to be able to writedown your thoughts.
That's what we do inpsychotherapy, is talk therapy,
(23:39):
but learning to journal or writedown your thoughts, what you
may want to say to that person,can help relieve the heaviness
on your heart.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
That just made me feel so emotional Just thinking
about that, just thinking abouthow you could write and just
tell them about your day andthings that you know that they
would be proud of, or would havebeen excited to see you know,
we don't know we don't know whathappens afterwards, Right, Dr
Michelle?
But what I will say is that Ibelieve that you know, that our
(24:06):
loved ones know where we're at,you know in life that they may
be able to, not not in allcircumstances, but I do believe,
if they're in Abraham's bosom,if they're, you know, in, in, in
a waiting period for heaven,that they may have an
opportunity to see you.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yes, yes, definitely.
That's a big, a big part of itbeing able to just share.
Because, elder Hollins, youmade a statement earlier when
you said sometimes people don'tknow how to be with you and they
feel sometimes they don'tmention your loved one because
they feel, oh, that's going tomake her cry, oh, that's going
to make him feel sad.
But sometimes I look forward towhen people do say oh, you know
(24:45):
, I had a thought and I thoughtabout something Elder Robinson
said and I just laugh andsometimes you want someone to
laugh with you, you want someoneto memorialize and celebrate
his life, because sometimespeople don't know how to respond
, so they don't say anything andyou're like, wow, you're
(25:05):
wondering.
And again, transparency,sometimes I think, wow, do they
remember my husband the way Idid, do they?
You know, when you know theydon't say his name and you know.
And so I like when someonecomes to me and say you know
what you know, elder, hementored me and I remember this,
this, this, and I just laughand that's comforting for me.
(25:25):
And so one of the things that Itell my clients don't be afraid
to share how you feel, even inthe process of grief, you know,
even in that process to be ableto say you know what?
I remember he said something sosilly and that's comforting to
me.
I laugh about something you sayand I think about something that
(25:46):
still, like, holds that placein my heart, you know and so
sometimes other people don'tknow if you'll be okay with it,
know if you'll be okay with it,so when you just be okay with it
, then that lets them learn tobe okay with it as well and
that's that's another good point.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
You say the more often you can, the more often
you can be okay in that spacearound other people, the more
often they will be okay withdoing it more.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
So that's a very good point.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
I agree with that and knowing that it's okay to cry,
you know a lot of times peopleoh, I don't want to make them
cry to.
Crying is cleansing and purging.
Crying is okay, it's a way toget that heaviness off of your
heart.
You know, and I think there's apassage in scripture that says
god bottles up our tears.
Oh, that how awesome is that Forhim, to every tear we shed, he
(26:35):
bottles them up and he holdsthem.
He knows what every tear is for, what every tear means.
So when you think about thatit's like it's okay, God can
handle my tears, he knowsexactly what to do with my tears
and again, it helps to offloadand you share in that process
and you allow others to freelyshare in your process of grief
(26:58):
as you both or the familymembers go through it together.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yes, ma'am, you know what I'll say.
I do want to go back to theoriginal question I was asking,
but we went on a better path.
I'll be honest with you I lovethat path, but it made me know
it's perfect, it was.
It's actually where we shouldhave gone in the first place,
but I it makes me want to jumpahead to another thought that I
had, and I hope this is okay.
(27:23):
You know you were just talkingabout someone laughing with you.
You know and and andmemorializing that person
because you want to rememberthat they had an impact on you
and this life.
So what advice do you have forsomeone who feels guilty?
You know who, who, when theyexperience joy or happiness
after that person isn't there.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yes, yes, and that's very common.
I'm glad that that you askedthat question, because that's
what we call survivor's remorse.
Ask that question becausethat's what we call survivors
remorse, survivors remorse.
Sometimes we find thatindividuals can shut down and
feel that they don't have aright to smile, to laugh, to go
(28:05):
to the party, to show up in atengagement and and and that's
that's part of that process,because you feel that you know
and and again.
It's just like we get adriver's license, we get a
marriage license.
Nobody give us a license degreeright, so we have to like
figure that out.
And whether we go toprofessional help or just kind
(28:25):
of muddle through it, we don'treally know that there are ways
that we can help ourselves toprocess through it.
So the survivor's remorse iswhere we feel guilty for having
joy and happiness, for beingable to laugh, because we feel,
no, I shouldn't be having fun.
This is a sad time and weoftentimes don't think you know
(28:49):
what my loved one would love forme to enjoy myself and to keep
living.
And sometimes this is a partthat I deal with with clients
and I talk about it's okay tolive, it's okay to keep living
your life even though they'renot with you.
(29:09):
You carry them in your heart,you carry them in your spirit,
you carry parts of them, and soit's okay to still take care of
yourself, to still laugh, tostill do those things, to still
practice self-care.
Sometimes people go to theopposite and they stop taking
care of themselves.
Sometimes they stop, you know,honoring personal commitments.
(29:32):
They they're not, they don'tshow up, they're not there
because they don't feel thatthey just have that wherewithal
to do it.
But this is where God's gracecomes in, because he gives us
the grace, the enablement, powerto do what we need to do.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Amen, that's right.
That's right.
You know when you said that'sinvaluable.
That is very invaluable.
And when you said that, I meanfirst of all, I got chills and
and that's not dramatic, thatwas for real I really got chills
thinking about that and youknow, it also made me think.
You know, if you are thatindividual and we have done this
through the prep for marriagecourse, we always ask couples to
(30:11):
ask those deep questions whilethey're here, right, so we'll
say, hey, how would they wantyou to live life If they weren't
here?
You know how would they wantthat?
And remember it, write it down,take a picture.
We just say it all the time.
Say, just remember that momentin your mindset.
What did they want for you?
And then, when they are throughthat grieving process, and if
(30:35):
you are listening and you're inthat grieving process right now,
what is the answer?
You know and nine times out of10, the answer is that they
don't want you to suffer or foryou to stop being you the person
that they fell in love with, oror the parent that they looked
up to or the child that theycared for.
(30:55):
You know they want to see thefull version of you and yeah and
part of that I would, insteadof calling it survivor's remorse
, let's call it survivor's workis that you need to uphold that
memory, that of yourself, forthem.
Okay, you know and, and I justthink, what you just said, right
(31:15):
there was so powerful, and ifyou're listening it's not by
accident.
And I truly believe that Godwanted you to hear this today.
So take that in and start thehealing process while you can.
And why?
While you are able to?
Because we don't want to evergive people their flowers when
they're gone.
Let's do it now.
(31:37):
Amen, you know you brought meback again to the earlier
question, and that was you know,and and this is what I would
tell you Canel can jump in onthis as well that how often that
we see a reversal of faith whenthere is loss, that we see a
reversal of faith when there isloss, and so you know.
Going back to that, how cansomeone maintain that?
(31:57):
How can they maintain theirfaith when they feel angry?
Speaker 3 (32:01):
angry with God if I'm being honest angry with God and
feeling abandoned after loss.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
What would?
Speaker 1 (32:08):
you say there, yes, and I think that's a very strong
point.
You know, how do you maintainfaith when you feel angry?
One of the things, even growingup as a younger girl younger
girl I remember, you know,hearing people say you know,
don't, don't be angry with God,don't get you know.
Just through my ownrelationship with God and
(32:34):
through my own grief, I realizedGod can handle my anger, god
can handle your anger.
You know, the Bible says beangry but sin not.
And so sometimes we feel angry.
Anger is one of the first ofthe five main stages of grief.
So we're going to feel angry.
(32:55):
Sometimes you're angry at thedoctors, you're angry at other
family members, you're angry atthe situation.
Sometimes you're angry at theperson who passed.
Now that goes a little deeper.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
That does.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
It goes a little deeper and with the clientele
that I see, oftentimes I findand again even transparency
being angry that a person didn'tdo the things that they should
have done.
And then you startrationalizing, you start saying,
well, maybe they would havelived longer if they did this or
that, and so sometimes you'reangry about those things.
Sometimes you're angry aboutthose things, you know a person
(33:32):
who may, you know, have othersubstance usage that may lead to
their demise.
So you're angry that, oh, ifthey wouldn't have done that,
they would still be here.
They robbed me of the benefitof their life.
And so the anger can go in somany different directions.
Being a Christian, you have tounderstand that God can handle
(33:54):
your anger.
God can handle any emotion, anyemotion that we go through.
And so when you're honest withGod and I must take a pause here
to say when my second husbandpassed, I remember saying to God
I said I know this is not yourcharacter, but I want you to
know how I feel, so I'm going tosay it I said I feel like I'm
(34:23):
being punished.
I said, but I know, I know, soI preface it by saying God,
there's nothing in your word tosupport what I'm about to say
Other than but I got to tell youhow I feel right now, that I
feel like I'm being punished.
Tell you how I feel right nowthat I feel like I'm being
punished.
He says, daughter and lo, Iwill be with you always.
And so he let me know.
(34:43):
It's okay to tell me how youfeel, it's okay to share our
feelings, even with God, becausehe says when we're open, when
we're honest you know, david wasa man after God's own heart
because he was open and he washonest, he said God, I did it,
it was me, I did it, and so it'sokay to let God know how we
feel, so he can take that andthen he can continue to mold you
(35:04):
and shape you into how he'sfortifying you even through your
grief.
Amen, grief causes you toexperience God on a whole
different level.
It's one thing to read thathe's a rock in a weary land, but
when you have to know he's yourrock, when you have to know
(35:26):
that for yourself, it takes on awhole new meaning.
My relationship with Goddeepened when I lost both
spouses, and so people wouldlook and how is that?
Because now no one has to tellme that he's a way maker, a
miracle worker, that when you'relonely he can be there for you,
(35:50):
that you don't have tocompromise your character and
who you are, because your fleshgets a hold of you.
So no one has to tell me that.
I experienced that.
So to have that experience on awhole nother level with God,
it's just like wow.
You know it's not just a song,it's not just something we hear
(36:12):
doing praise and worship.
I know it for myself now, likeI never had known before.
So that's how your faith canoverride the feeling of anger,
because feeling the anger isjust an emotion.
We're going to experiencedifferent feelings.
So oftentimes you have to notlet your emotions leave you, but
(36:35):
let your rational mind leaveyou, along with the word of God.
God's word is going to line upRight, right, and so it's okay
to have those feelings.
Feelings can ebb and flow,they'll go up, they'll go down,
but the fact is, my God is stilla healer, my God is still able,
right.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Yes, you know, you got me when you said God can
handle your anger.
I've never thought of that thatway.
He is the almighty God.
He can handle it, all you know,and so he created the emotion.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
almighty god, he can handle it all you know, and so
he created the emotion.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
So obviously he can handle the emotion you know, and
so yeah you didn't, you evendropped something right there
you did, you put it in yourshando, it's in my shando, it's
deep in my spirit now it's notgoing nowhere and and I and I
understand others feel this aswell.
I'm telling you this is suchhealing to so many people right
now.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Yeah, Like this is what they need.
And can I add this Elder, yes,yes, please.
When we hide our emotions, theyshow up in other ways.
That can lead to complicatedgrief.
There are two kinds of griefcomplicated and uncomplicated
grief.
So let's say someone is reallyfatal and angry and then they
(37:52):
have a denial and shock.
We know that's like we're juststuck at the point of learning
of their demise.
We have the depression.
The bargaining is the askingwhy?
Why, my loved one?
Why this time?
You know they were going tohave a birthday in just two days
.
Why?
Why you know they were going tohave a birthday in just two
days.
Why?
Why?
It's the unanswered question.
But when you, when you startthinking about your emotions and
(38:15):
your feelings, it's OK to havethem and experience them, but
you just don't stay stuck inthem.
And that's where the impairmentcan come in.
If you hide that, you feelangry and you don't want to tell
somebody Like what I justshared with you.
And now the masses in terms ofGod, I feel like you're
(38:36):
punishing me, but I know thefact is you're not.
Yeah, you see.
So I put him in remembrance.
I know this is not what it is.
I just feel like this and Iwant to tell you how I feel he
can handle that.
He can work with that, becauseyou're being open and you're
being honest.
And sometimes if we don't saythat, if we don't get it out
(38:59):
because we don't feel in a safeplace or amongst safe people
where we can say that to, thenwe start hiding it and it shows
up in other areas that cause usto be impaired, whether it's
substance usage, other what wecall process, addiction, Process
addiction.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
So it starts showing up.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Yes, process addictions gambling, different
type of things, pornography,different type of addictions
that are not directly related tosubstance usage.
So we call those processedaddictions.
So we hide our feelings and wemask them and we start secreting
other things, because we reallyfeel angry and somebody told us
(39:43):
don't be angry at God, so wehide it we hide it.
Speaker 3 (39:48):
That's what happens when we don't have angry at God,
so we hide it?
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Oh right, that's what happened when we don't have the
full knowledge to speak onsomething and we just say
something and not reallyprocessing the words that we're
about to deliver to someone thatis not in a state of process,
right Like they may not be readyand you know they're dealing
with quite a bit at that moment.
I'm glad that you said that.
Speaker 3 (40:10):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
You know, I I wasn't aware of that as a as a
secondary emotion, like we'vewe've seen where people become
hyper-focused on on work.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
Or or the, or, for instance, a parent on the next
child, on that, you know, thesibling of the child.
Yes, that's a child or theparent that they didn't lose
yeah then they focus on the onthe other parent.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
We've seen hyperactivity on that.
We've definitely seen.
When someone has lost a spousewe typically see that they have
kind of lost a sense of theiridentity and purpose, you know,
especially if they were doingmultiple things in a healthy
marriage.
We've seen that quite a bitright when they the loss is so
(40:52):
profound that the next step isthat they have had a significant
crisis of faith, right, so it's.
It's both of those, it's all ofthose things that you said
there.
Oh, wow, like you got.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
It can be a battle.
It can really be a battle thatsomeone has to, and that's why
you know it's so importanthaving a relationship with God,
but also having a relationshipwith other people, being around
other people.
Again, I think the trick of theenemy is what we know is to
steal, kill and destroy, and sowhen he gets us to isolate and
(41:26):
withdraw, now you're notfellowshipping with other people
.
I struggle with that.
I struggle to come to churchevery Sunday knowing, you know,
my husband and I would sit nextto each other, right here, and
now I come to church and he'snot with me, and so I really
went through a season of thatwhere it was just hard to come.
(41:47):
And sometimes we'll find thatit's hard to go to the place
where you all used to frequent,whether it be a restaurant or
other places where you used togo.
It's kind of hard to kind ofget back into that because your
half is not there with you,right, you know?
And so you have to try to getre-acclimated to, like I said,
to that new norm without them.
(42:08):
And here's the thing it doestake time.
It takes time.
And walking with someone duringthat journey, checking in with
them, you know saying hey, howyou doing.
Hey, you want to go to lunch?
Hey, let's go here, let's gothere, and it's okay if they
choose not to.
But just knowing someone wouldoffer to do something with you
(42:30):
can be a great help.
Yeah, it can really be a greathelp.
That's good Dr.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
Robinson, I'm sorry when you said that it had me
think something.
I wanted to ask you Becausewhen you had said you want to
have that community, that kindof helps you do it right.
And I was wondering, like, doyou want someone that doesn't
maybe know your loss or someonethat does know your loss?
So it had me go down adifferent rabbit hole as far as,
like, let's say, if you're Idon't want to say dating, but
kind of just seeking out thatother companionship again, how
(43:01):
do you broach the subject with anew person as far as your loss
and how you still grieving it,maybe, maybe grieving it or how
to?
I don't know how I'm trying tosay this and make it okay to
keep continuing to talk aboutthis person you've lost but, at
the same time, continue to learnthis new person you're trying
to learn.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
Yeah, I'm trying to say how do you find that balance
?
That's a good question, babe,that is.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
Yeah, I think that is a good question.
I think pretty much with with,with anything else, you have to
use wisdom because obviously, ifyou're you know, if you're
dating someone new, you want tomake sure that you have that
balance right.
That's the thing of knowingwhen you're healed.
(43:44):
Being healed doesn't mean youwon't ever think about your
loved one again.
I have this pact with God.
I said, okay, god.
So when I go into glory andwhen I see, I say I'm going to
have two husbands up thereBecause you know, am I going to
say hey Jeff, hey Nathaniel,which one you know?
And so that's just my little,and again that's me being
(44:05):
humorous about it, but againthat keeps me.
It just keeps me laughing, evenif I laughed to myself and
within myself.
You know, because we know, oncewe get up there, you know we're
not in our carnal state, sowe're not going to be thinking
that we can all be sisters andbrothers.
But the other thing about it is, you know, finding that balance
(44:26):
.
Making sure you've done yourhealing work in terms of the
great doesn't mean you're notgoing to.
You know you're going to alwayshave that person, especially if
you love that person, going toalways have them a part of your
heart.
But you also this is where youlearn God's capacity.
So God has a great capacity tolove, right, and we know that
(44:48):
because he so loved us, right.
So so here it is, got twohusbands and and maybe, maybe
the Lord is leading anotherhusband to find me, right.
And so I believe God can stillgive you the capacity to love
someone else, because he's God,he's big like that.
Yes, he can still do that.
(45:08):
But what is important again isthat you do your work.
Know that you've gone throughthat process of healing, because
if you, if you're still inangry mode, then you're.
It's not going to be asfruitful when you're meeting
someone else.
You may not even be ready, butyou have to know if you're ready
to date.
You have to know if you'reready to move forward with
(45:31):
someone else in a different way,and sometimes God uses you.
Know whether it's therapists,whether it's your pastor,
whether it's like you guys arein couples.
You lead our couples ministry.
The Bible says there's safety ina multitude of counselors.
Counselors doesn't have toalways be the licensed ones.
You guys are in a role andposition of counseling.
You counsel people and so,being able to know you know what
(46:02):
, am I ready to move ahead withsomeone else?
And so, being open and honestwith yourself in terms of where
you are, your station at thatpoint in your life, am I ready
to share me with someone else?
And understanding that you canhave the capacity to share you
with them even though you haveshared with someone else?
Speaker 3 (46:20):
Amen and when you said that it took me someplace
else.
So, though you're ready, whatif you have children from that
previous relationship?
Then you both have that loss,right?
How do you know when your childis ready, or how do you get
them to the point of being ready, or how can you help them deal
with whatever emotions they havegoing on from that loss, as
(46:40):
well to get to a space, toaccept someone new, or you know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
And that is very, very key and that can only take
time.
I don't even think there's acookie cutter answer to that.
When you have like, this iswhere family therapy can come in
.
When it's time to make thatnext step.
Before you introduce your kids,say to someone new, you know
you talk to your kids, just seewhere they are.
Sometimes kids are never ready,you know, or may have difficulty
(47:11):
getting ready.
I'll put it like that we don'tnever want to say never, but you
know sometimes and I haveclients that are adult, adult
children, not like little kids,but they're adults and they just
have not accepted that momremarried.
You know for various reasonsthat mom remarried.
You know for various reasons.
And that's why now, when youbring in like the LMFT, which is
(47:31):
a, you know, a therapist thatdeals in family therapy, that's
when you help with those typesof transitions.
You know when you help talkabout the person and who they
meant to.
They will always be.
This person isn't coming totake their place because their
place can't be taken.
And this is where you highlightyou know the capacity to love is
(47:53):
so great because God loves us,so you have to help your kids
and help them see that you canlearn to like this person, you
know.
But again, that does take time.
It's not something that you canforce, because if you try to
force it it may not work the wayit would if it was just
(48:14):
organically.
You just have to show love onall fronts and make sure you're
not pushing this new person ontoyour kids either, or onto the
whole family unit, becausesometimes we see that happening
like we're ready but the familymay not be ready, you know.
Now does that mean you don'tdate, or you don't introduce
(48:35):
them, or you don't live life?
No, you just have to try tofind a way to navigate that, you
know, taking into considerationhow the kids feel, how other
family members feel, you know,and through family therapy you
can find that out, becausesometimes people may have other
reasons why they may not evenwant to open up to someone else.
(48:57):
That's true, that's so true.
So they may not be ready toopen up for their own personal
reasons.
May not be that this is not agood person or that they don't
like the person.
It's just, I like my daddy, andthat was my daddy and nobody
else is going to be my daddy.
That's true, and so sometimesthey have to work through that
(49:18):
Exactly.
You know that takes time towork through that.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
Right.
I will say this though that youknow when you are going through
the grieving process and ofcourse you have far more
expertise than I do.
But some of the things that weoften will say to couples that
ask us for counsel is we alwayssay you know, give it to God.
(49:42):
He's the ultimate counselor,but he also knows grief better
than anyone in the grief processbecause he gave up his only
begotten son sohe knows exactly that feeling.
And if you?
Stay in constant communicationand, just like you said, you
know it.
You know grief will take you toanother level of communication
with the Lord you know, he'llgive it to you.
Speaker 3 (50:04):
He'll give it to you.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
He'll give it to you and and what I he will, he will,
and what I've often told othercouples that kind of said this
as well too just don't try andforce someone, just like what
you said.
Elder michelle, dr michelle, isthat you?
Know, sometimes people, becausethey don't like the feeling of
being alone and they're missingthat spouse.
Right, they will force someonea square a square peg into a
(50:27):
circle peg hole right and, andso we don't want you to do that.
So don't rush it Right.
Take the time that you need, umand and God will always provide
right he always will provide.
Speaker 1 (50:40):
And actually in the same way of like how you, you,
you all deal with couples andmarried couples.
But just think about, even evenwith couples who have been
divorced, and then mom and theirdad is introducing a new person
, you know, the divorce is overand now someone else is coming
in.
It's pretty much that sameprocess.
Sometimes kids may not bewilling, you know, and so it
(51:03):
does take time.
You have to help them processthrough that and just you know
in a loving way that you're notforcing this other person into
their lives, but having thatunderstanding that they're not
taking trying to take someoneelse's place.
So that has to be cultivatedand that takes time.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
What if the person and you want to come to them,
you're the other family memberthat is recognizing this grief
has just gone far past.
It's become complicated grief,right, you know they're in that
phase.
But what if they don't want tosee a Christian based counselor?
You know what, what type oftherapist like would you suggest
(51:44):
to them?
Or how would you help tocultivate that person to start
to see the Lord again?
You know when yes, when they'vetaken themselves away from them
?
Speaker 1 (51:57):
And that's a good question as well, because you
know that's one of the reasonswhy I have people who ask me oh
well, you have a PhD inChristian counseling, but I went
back to get a second master'sin clinical mental health
counseling because you do haveto be licensed in the state.
When you have a Christiancounseling you don't have to be
licensed, but pretty much you'rekind of limited to faith-based
(52:21):
communities or institutions soyou can teach there, but again,
the credentialing goes for thestate that you're licensed in.
And so many people, one of thethings I said well, I went back
to get the other, not just fordegree's sake, but because the
world is not all Christian yetand so I need to be able to help
(52:41):
the atheists, I need to be ableto minister to the agnostic.
I don't have to quote chapterverse, but you're going to know
I know a little something aboutJesus.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
Amen.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
Right, so and that, and that's all of us.
Right, that's all of us.
Because what about the unsavedthat still may come into my
office out of their hurt and outof their pain?
I'm not going to first ask dothey know Jesus?
That's not going to be my firstquestion.
They come to me out of theirhurt and out of their pain and
(53:16):
somewhere along the way God willopen up a door for me to sell
Jesus or tell them about awitness, Jesus.
And so support groups, a lot ofhospitals, a lot of behavioral
mental health facilities havesupport groups for those who may
not want the faith-based.
(53:37):
They may not want the Christiantherapist, they may not want
the pastor or the you know, orthe intercessor, Sometimes
talking to someone that you cantrust, you know a professional
therapist who may not be aChristian therapist Like I said,
there are many out there whodon't also do Christian therapy.
(53:59):
I have people call my officelooking for a Christian
therapist.
They automatically give them tome, you know, because I don't
shy down, because I'm aChristian, you know, and so
they't shy down, because I'm aChristian, you know.
And so they can go to aprofessional therapist, they can
go to someone whom they trust.
Like I said, a lot of supportgroups and individual behavioral
health facilities also offergrief therapy.
(54:22):
You know, sometimes throughtheir insurance they can seek
out behavioral health for griefand they can.
They can still find help evenif they don't seek a Christian
counselor.
Speaker 3 (54:34):
That's so good and I think it's so important,
Everything you just said there,Dr Robinson.
The fact is, we don't know whatwe don't know.
So a lot of that informationjust gave somebody, somebody
probably doesn't know, sothey're just dealing with it
internally or in their own spaceversus realizing they do have
these resources, that they canseek out, even, to a certain
point, free resources.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
Yeah, so that's so important, yes, absolutely a lot
of a lot of.
I.
I have clients who deal with um, you know, um, body imaging
issues, a lot of my young girls,you know, still a certain way.
And crown counseling uh, Ithink they're in Crown Point,
but there's so many differentresources that are available in
(55:13):
Illinois as well as in Indiana,and they are free resources
support groups, you know, fordifferent things, and so even
just trying to network and yourinsurance company can can
oftentimes they know of a lot ofresources too, and so I would
just invite people to resource,I mean to network, to find those
resources.
(55:34):
I believe God will always, whenyou are seeking, he will always
make sure that you find a way toget to him If it's something
that's going to enhance yourcommitment, your level with him
or even just your awareness ofGod.
You know, for the people whodon't know Christ, it is his
desire that we come to know him,so he's going to put you in the
(55:57):
right direction.
Amen, whether you know it ornot, he's going to put you on
the pathway to righteousnessthat is so nice For his namesake
right.
He's going to do that for you.
And where you, he said if youseek, you will find him, even if
you don't even know you seekinghim.
Speaker 2 (56:17):
He will find a way to to help you right where you are
.
Amen to that, you know well wedo have our audience, we have a
very broad audience and we thankGod for that.
So you know, for someone thatis in a different country, or
you know, or in a differentstate, you know, would you mind
giving us maybe three practicalsteps for recentering or
(56:42):
reconnecting with one's faithafter this period of doubt or
anger?
If you can give them, like justif you can give them your top
three that maybe they can do intheir hometown, home country, in
order to start bringingthemselves?
Speaker 3 (56:56):
full center.
Speaker 2 (56:57):
Yeah, full center, healing God's way.
Speaker 1 (57:01):
Healing definitely takes place the more we're open
and honest about where we are.
Just flat out, god.
This is where I am.
You know, this is how I feel.
You know, even with those thatdon't know Jesus talk and feel
(57:22):
certain kinds of ways, and sobeing able to just be open and
honest with where you're at waysand so being able to just be
open and honest with whereyou're at and, again, not
isolating, so that you can beable to talk to someone, someone
can steer you where you need togo, someone can help, put you
on on a pathway that can providesome type of assistance or
(57:44):
support for you.
And, again, that's why it's soimportant.
It's so important to stillconnect with people and not
again withdraw and isolate, andbe able to get on the pathway.
So being able to seek resourceswherever you are in your
community, whether it's faithbased or not.
We have a lot of communityresources and people who sponsor
(58:10):
people just to get support andhelp.
So being able to reach out andto find someone that can help
you.
You know, understand who.
You know you got to understandwhat is happening.
What do I need to do?
Getting involved in grief work,sometimes social support group,
and then those of us who havebeen affected and impacted by
(58:34):
grief, reaching out, being ahelper being someone to help
others process their grief.
You know so it's like you knowme.
I went to school for courtreporting.
Everybody knows me.
No, I was a court reporter forlike over 20 something years.
One rotator cuff, the doctorsays I hope you know how to do
something else.
(58:55):
And so counseling was it.
My husband would say youcounseled, let's just do that.
I said really.
And so being able to helpsomeone else because now I know
the significance of being intherapy, going through that
grief, going through thedepression and the anxiety,
(59:15):
because not only is it the griefprocess but it's still those
other component parts that goalong with that.
If you've gone through it,being able to help and support
others in different states anddifferent communities, to go
through it being an advocate,help someone else, just like
you've been helped.
Speaker 3 (59:34):
Amen.
Speaker 1 (59:35):
Support someone else in your church.
Being a part I was a part ofthe lay counseling ministry.
I think after COVID hit, wekind of fizzled a little bit.
Kind of fizzled a little bit.
But being able to do the workwithin wherever you fit,
wherever you are, whether it'son the job, I think there's
(59:55):
always a door that can be openfor you to show, to let God's
light shine through you,especially if you've been
through something.
If you've been throughsomething, it's for you, but
it's also for someone else too.
Amen, yes, I wholeheartedlyagree.
Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
That was powerful in every possible aspect, and I
know if I were listening on theother side though I'm listening
on the inside of this podcast Iwould want to know, if I'm in
this local community, how Icould reach out to you, how
could I, maybe if we wanted toget services from you or become
(01:00:33):
one of your patients?
Could you please share with ushow they could reach out to you
and what ways they could?
And even if they are locally orif they're not, is there
possibilities if they're not?
Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
Telehealth.
Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
Yeah, do you have any telehealth services?
Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
yes, actually actually telehealth.
I work for a company calledgrow therapycom and you can look
me up on grow therapycom andyou can just, you know, look for
dr michelle robinson and um,they'll ask you in terms of what
area you want, but if you putmy name in then everything will
(01:01:10):
come up and so that that companyis exclusively through
telehealth and so it's virtualand I see clients in the evening
on that side and sometimesduring the day, but I also work
for clients who want to do faceto face.
I work at a company, midAmerica Psychological and
Counseling Services in MunsterIndiana.
(01:01:31):
It's right near the Red Lobsterin Munster Indiana.
So I see clients face-to-face aswell as virtual, through Mid
America, as well as growththerapy.
Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
Amen.
So are there any otherlanguages that you?
Have to ask Because you knowthey may reach out, and so we'll
tell them.
Type you a message and put itthrough Google.
Translate and we'll see whatcan happen work on too.
Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
I want to learn Spanish, so, but but definitely
with all of the, the technology,with all of the, you know ways
that people can communicate.
Someone can steer you to whatyou need.
I just, I just believe thatsomeone can steer you to the
services and to the help thatyou need.
Sometimes we just have to openit up and ask somebody.
We just have to say this andyou never know someone.
You know, you can just be overtalking and somebody hears you
(01:02:31):
and say, hey, you know what, Iknow that, I know that, but you
just have to again.
I just believe God's got a wayto get to you what you need.
Another resource is PsychologyToday.
Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
Psychology Today is a resource where all clinicians
are listed, in that it's like adatabase for therapists
throughout.
If you live in Canada, if youlive in Germany, we are
everywhere, and so you just goonline Psychology Today and you
put in whatever area that you'refrom, city and state, and you
(01:03:05):
can find a list of therapists inyour area right near you that's
a big database for forclinicians and that's where
we're listed in psychology todayall right.
Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
So now we have the international connection too
look at god you cannot say youdon't have the answers with that
.
So well, I just want to tellyou thank you so much.
Elder dr michelle robinson, Ihave to say both because you
have multiple titles but we areso grateful that you joined us
on the podcast today and, aswe're concluding out, we think
(01:03:42):
she did tell us the whole truth,right and nothing.
And nothing but the truth.
Right, it's so good, so well.
We will say this once again toyou, dr Robinson, thank you so
much for telling us the truth.
Speaker 3 (01:03:55):
Thank you so much for telling us the whole truth.
Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
And thank you for letting us tell you, and you to
tell us, nothing but the truth.
Speaker 3 (01:04:04):
So help me.
Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
God.
Thank you, dr Robinson, we loveyou.
Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
Thank you, we love you too.
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