September 18, 2025 • 32 mins
Joe Sills never expected to become a travel writer. Growing up in a small town in West Tennessee surrounded by cotton fields and limited horizons, he couldn't imagine that the places he saw on Discovery Channel would one day become his workplace. After a winding path that included dropped college courses, pizza delivery and graphic design, a workplace shooting became the catalyst that pushed him back toward journalism and eventually into a career documenting some of the world's most remote and vulnerable places.
What began as simple wanderlust – "planting flags and checking off countries" as he candidly admits – evolved into something far more meaningful. Today, Sills focuses his camera and storytelling abilities on conservation efforts, sustainable tourism initiatives and giving voice to communities on the frontlines of human-wildlife conflict. His work in places like Nepal's tiger territory and Bolivia's high-altitude flamingo habitats goes beyond typical travel coverage to document the complex relationships between local communities, wildlife and environmental challenges.
Perhaps most moving is Sills' recent expedition to Svalbard in the Arctic Circle, where he helped lead children with special needs on a transformative adventure. Many had never left their hometowns, let alone experienced the wonder of snowball fights amid pristine Arctic landscapes. For Sills, these moments represent the culmination of his professional evolution – using travel as a vehicle for transformation rather than mere escapism.
As the travel industry faces mounting concerns about sustainability and environmental impact, Sills offers balanced perspective on both challenges and opportunities. He expresses serious reservations about mass tourism models like massive cruise ships while celebrating smaller, more sustainable alternatives. His upcoming projects – documenting Nepal's tourism dynamics and participating in endangered species reintroduction in South Africa – demonstrate his ongoing commitment to using journalism as a force for conservation awareness. Through it all, his philosophy remains refreshingly simple: "If I can take my camera and my words and shine a spotlight on someone who doesn't have the tools to tell their story, whether it's an animal or a person – that's what I want to do."
Read Joe's Tiger story here: https://www.forbes.com/sites/joesills/2024/07/28/camping-with-tigers-brings-curious-travelers-to-bardiya-in-nepal/
Connect with Joe on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joesills/?hl=en
Listen to past episodes of The Get Lost podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/get-lost-podcast/id1466710154
Please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe to the Media in Minutes podcast here or anywhere you get your podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/media-in-minutes/id1555710662
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Angela Tuell (00:05):
Welcome to Media in Minutes.
This is your host, Angela Tuell.
This podcast features in-depthinterviews with those who report
on the world around us.
They share everything fromtheir favorite stories to what
happened behind the lens andgive us a glimpse into their
world From our studio here atCommunications Redefined.
This is Media in Minutes.
Today we're talking with JoeSills, a travel writer,
(00:32):
guidebook author, photographerand podcast host whose work
explores the intersection ofadventure and conservation.
Joe has covered modern traveltrends around the globe, with a
focus on sustainability,human-wildlife, conflict and
delicate ecosystems.
From the delta in Botswana tothe jungles of Nepal and the
wetlands of Brazil, joe hasdocumented some of the world's
(00:53):
most remote and vulnerableenvironments.
His writing has appeared in topoutlets like National
Geographic, lonely Planet andForbes.
Whether he is highlightingecotourism efforts or uncovering
off-the-wall travel experiences, joe brings a thoughtful,
adventurous lens to everyassignment.
Hello, joe.
Joe Sills (01:13):
Hi Angela, How's it going?
Angela Tuell (01:15):
It's going well.
Thank you for joining us andI'm looking forward to talking
with you today.
Joe Sills (01:20):
Look, I'm honored to be here.
Thanks for having me on.
I appreciate the ask and I'mlooking forward to talking to
you a little bit about ourwonderful industry.
Angela Tuell (01:28):
Yes, you've traveled all over the world,
super, super jealous of a lot ofthese travels from Botswana to
Brazil.
We could go on and on.
What first sparked your lovefor travel and how did that
evolve into a writing career?
Joe Sills (01:44):
So yeah, I'm on six continents now.
I haven't been to Antarctica,that's still on the list.
But I would say that the loveof travel came from growing up
in a small town in WestTennessee.
A lot of people thinkTennessee's mountains and things
like that, but in the westernpart it's just a river delta,
(02:05):
like it's cotton fields and aWalmart and that's it.
So when I was a kid my parentswould drive me around the
southeast and the midwest andthat sort of got me used to
being on the road.
But I never thought that it wasa career, like I didn't know
that I was a sports journalist,you know.
So I didn't know that I couldgo and see these places that I
(02:30):
had looked at on TV, onDiscovery Channel, like it just
was so alien to me.
And I remember my first tripout west.
I went to California and I wasin Yosemite National Park and I
just kind of like stopped andlooked around and touched the
granite rocks on the side of thetrail and something clicked
like right there and said, hey,man, like all of this is real,
(02:52):
so why don't you go see as muchof it as you can?
Angela Tuell (02:55):
Yeah, oh, I love that, and you've been.
I don't want to just say lucky,because I'm sure you've worked
incredibly hard to get there.
There was a lot of luck therewas Because you've made I mean
you've been able to make thatyour career, which is very hard
to do.
Joe Sills (03:10):
Yeah, it was hard.
I'd say that I was driven by aneed to break out of my
surroundings.
The truth of it is I had a veryrocky up and down career in
college, Like I dropped out.
I tried to be an Egyptologistand that didn't work and I ended
(03:31):
up delivering pizza, doinggraphic design and, long story
short, after a shooting at myworkplace, I decided to go back
to journalism.
Uh, and that was great.
That was great, Actually, likeone um um.
Everybody was okay.
So shooting could have beenworse um, but it sparked that
(03:52):
idea to go back to, like mycreative roots and I started a
travel blog back then.
This was like 2013, 14, and asI was living out of the back of
a Ford Escape, like going tonational parks, an editor at the
Travel Channel reached out.
They asked me to come on boardand that was that.
Wow so that's where the luckcomes in.
(04:14):
I didn't know that travelwriting was like a thing that
you could get paid for.
Angela Tuell (04:18):
Yeah, yeah, now you know, and now you found out,
it's that you don't get paid aton for it usually.
Joe Sills (04:24):
No, yeah it's.
I think it's the world's mostglorious side hustle.
Angela Tuell (04:28):
Yes, I love that.
I love that.
You know, as you mentioned,you're involved in so many
things, from travel, writing,authoring guidebooks,
photography, podcasting.
Could you tell us more aboutyour current work, what it looks
like now?
Joe Sills (04:41):
Yeah, so right now I'm leaning heavily on creative
stuff.
I'm leaning on visual thingsCommercial photo shoots are big
right now, commercial videoshoots are big right now, and
also copywriting and doing likemarketing comms strategy.
A lot of that is behind thescenes, like I'm not usually on
(05:02):
camera, my byline might not beon a story, but it's what's
paying the bills now because ofthe landscape of travel writing
itself being, as you said, it'slike, pretty unsustainable.
Angela Tuell (05:14):
Yeah, what do you do in the travel writing aspect
right now?
Joe Sills (05:18):
So, as a travel writer, I still go out.
I do guidebooks for LonelyPlanet, which is a great way to
actually have objectivity.
You're not on a press trip.
You don't owe anybody anything.
You're actually not allowed tobe on a press trip to do that.
So you have to go out andinvestigate a place on the
ground, like in the real world,and oftentimes these are far
(05:42):
flung places like Bolivia, wherethere's not a lot of info
online.
So you either have to go towhere the old guidebook was
written and updated or you haveto do something new.
And then I also still writefreelance for whoever I can get
a pitch with.
I write for Forbes, I write forNational Geographic, some
whenever they're kind enough toreturn my email, and pretty much
(06:05):
whoever I can, because I'mstill out there.
At heart, I'm a travel writerand I want to write about travel
.
That is what fuels my soul,yeah.
Angela Tuell (06:15):
And you focus a lot on conservation and
sustainability with your travelwriting right.
Joe Sills (06:19):
That's true.
Angela Tuell (06:21):
What drew you to those themes in particular and
how do you approach coveringthem, you know, responsibly,
while you're still, while you'regoing to those places.
Joe Sills (06:28):
Yeah, I mean obviously by trade.
I think travel writers have ahuge carbon footprint and it's
just how it is Always.
You can buy like carbon offsetsand contribute to positive
causes and I guess in a way thatmakes me feel better about it.
I don't know if it reallychanged anything or not, but
(06:54):
maybe I try.
But conservation when I talkabout conservation, I try to
focus a lot on wildlifeconservation.
I'm a nature lover and my impacthas just happened to be in
places like the fringes of theNepal border with India, in a
place called Bardia, and I wasable to write about human
wildlife conflict there withtigers, big cats and elephants.
(07:16):
In Africa, I've written someabout rhinos.
I stayed at a rhino orphanagefor a while and I've actually
been able to work withscientists in the field to
document a lot of their work,and that just stems from growth,
I think.
When I look back, I mean thefirst few years of my career as
(07:36):
a travel writer.
Like everybody, I was plantingflags and checking off countries
on a list.
Flags and checking offcountries on a list, right, and
it was very self-serving likelook at me, I'm in this
beautiful place, give me all theattention I'm gonna awesome.
Um, I want to go meet like hotinstagram babes right, which it
(07:57):
turns out wasn't really whatwhat I ended up doing?
at all um, I never found them,but I was gonna say are they all
over the place with you?
Angela Tuell (08:04):
no, no, no, not at all.
I never found them.
I was gonna say are they allover the place?
Joe Sills (08:06):
No, no, no, not at all.
Like I would see these, thesepeople on Instagram who are
fantastic photographers, andthat one inspired me to go, but
I never really found that when Iwas in that stage of my life.
Now I have a wonderful partner,Liz, and we see the world
together, but at the time, likeas a young kid in my 20s, like
that wasn't the goal Right.
(08:31):
So now I just want to make adifference.
Like I checked off flags and Ikind of realized it's a little
hollow, right, but if I can takemy camera and I can take my
words and I can shine aspotlight on someone who doesn't
have the tools to tell theirstory, whether it's an animal or
a person, that's what I want todo, because I think that can
actually help someone.
Angela Tuell (08:51):
Yes, and that's when I mean, that's what
journalism is all about a lot oftimes.
Joe Sills (08:56):
Yeah, yeah, that's true At the core of it, when you
are being a real journalist, soto speak.
Yeah, it should be about realcauses and a real impact.
Angela Tuell (09:06):
Yeah, what do you think?
I won't ask you your favorite,but what are your most memorable
stories that go along thoselines?
Joe Sills (09:15):
I have two that really stand out One I just
mentioned and it's calledCamping with Wild Tigers, and I
wrote that in 2014.
Okay, and it was a crazy storyto write, I was not on a press
trip, I was coming off of a hikearound the Annapurna Circuit in
(09:36):
Nepal, in the Himalayas, and Ihad a chance to connect with
some people that run a sort oflike a glamping resort thing
sustainable glamping resortthing down in another region of
Nepal.
That's literally just like ariver delta, hot human jungles,
(09:57):
and so I went down there and wehung out Liz and I hung out with
the owners of this camp for acouple days and some volunteer
rangers, and we were in veryrustic surroundings.
I mean, these are huts thatpeople live in, with thatched
(10:18):
roofs, like you would imagine inan African bush or something
like you would imagine in likean African bush or something,
and just the wonderful people.
But they're having a heck of atime with wildlife conflict
because they live on the fringesof this national park where
there are elephants and tigers,rhinos, leopards, and people are
(10:40):
having like endless encounterswith these animals.
So we wrote about the methodsthey're using to try to make
their community safer, likecamera traps.
They use drones to try to chaseelephants away from crops,
which is a better alternativethan like running at them with a
flaming spear.
You know right um, right, sothat story was really, really
(11:03):
meaningful.
Unfortunately, a woman waskilled while we were there by a
tiger.
Yeah, like, literally, like Ithink it was less than two
kilometers from where we werecamping.
Angela Tuell (11:15):
Oh my goodness, and you were camping.
Joe Sills (11:17):
I mean well, all the homes are open too.
Angela Tuell (11:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Joe Sills (11:21):
Yeah, it was really intense and it took me, I think,
six months to like really writethat story properly.
Yeah, and give it the justicethat I thought it deserved for
that community.
So it's up on Forbes.
If you Google Joe, sills andTigers, it's the first thing
that pops up.
Angela Tuell (11:40):
Awesome.
We will include that in ourshow notes for sure.
What do you wish more editorsor outlets understood about
reporting on sustainability andenvironmental issues?
I know it's more of a thing nowthan 10 years ago, but how
would you answer that?
Joe Sills (11:56):
I think that sometimes I get responses from
editors about a sustainabilitypitch and they say, oh, we've
already covered something likethis, well, that's, that doesn't
really matter.
You should still be coveringother things like that, because
the point is momentum.
And if you find a really coolstory about a lodge that's doing
(12:22):
things sustainably in awildlife area or a community
that's changing the way thatthey interact with the nature
and the plants and the animalsin their area, just because you
did one story like that incountry A doesn't mean you
shouldn't run it in country Btoo, because those could be
totally different audiences.
Angela Tuell (12:40):
Right, absolutely, and it helps you understand the
big picture.
You mentioned two stories.
We only talked about one.
What was the other one?
Joe Sills (12:49):
So the other story is one I haven't really written
yet.
I was so lucky to be on anexpedition this spring in
Svalbard in the Arctic Circle,so this is a group of islands
very north of Norway, even likeseveral hours flight north of
Norway.
Angela Tuell (13:09):
Okay.
Joe Sills (13:09):
It's just snow.
It's just snow Like there aremountains.
You can't tell where they'rethere and they're not, because
it's just snow.
Everything's white.
There's polar bears.
It's intense, but I went upthere to help an explorer friend
lead a group of children from aspecial needs school in the UK
(13:30):
to the Arctic Circle and it wasinsane.
Like these kids, a lot of themhad never left home.
Really they'd never beenoutside of their hometown, so
it's the first time they've beenin an airplane.
Angela Tuell (13:44):
Wow, and that's where they're going.
Joe Sills (13:50):
For real.
Liz and I met up with them atthe airport in London and met
these kids for the first time.
I think there were like a dozenof them, okay, maybe ages like
10 to 17.
Angela Tuell (14:00):
Okay.
Joe Sills (14:00):
And they all have some need, some special thing
that's going on with them thathas caused the outside world to
put a label on them, whetherthey're on the spectrum for
something or whether, like inone case, it was just a kid that
couldn't walk, he wasparaplegic.
So they have these labels andtheir whole life.
You know the outside world issaying, look, you can't do this,
(14:22):
you can't do that, you can't dothat, you can never do these
things.
And Mark Wood, who's a polarexplorer in the UK, said, well,
screw that.
Like, let's take them somewhere, let's prove to them they can
do anything.
Angela Tuell (14:36):
Oh wow, that's awesome yeah.
Joe Sills (14:38):
So we took them to Svalbard Mark, liz, myself,
several other people Shout outRory, hamish, vic, but a bunch
of people who are like bona fideexplorers, yeah.
And then we're kind of taggingalong as the film crew and we
took these kids to go dogsledding and they went on
snowmobiles, they climbedthrough ice caverns and got to
(15:04):
see this incredible, vanishingpart of the planet wow, that is
fantastic.
I cannot wait to read that, soyou have to write it I know I
have to find the downtime andlike the headspace to do it yeah
, that's another one, to tell itproperly, right?
Yeah, it's like I can't justwhip that out.
Um, it has to be like I need aweek to sit down and really
(15:26):
hammer this out yes, yes, we'llbe watching for that thank you
so on the flip side, you alsowrite about off-the-wall
destinations what are some ofthe most unexpected places
you've visited how'd you?
Angela Tuell (15:39):
find them unexpected places.
Joe Sills (15:42):
Um, finding them has a lot to do with the Lonely
Planet gig.
Okay, you end up in thesereally ridiculous places, for
instance, ayuni, which is a townin South America, in Bolivia.
It's famous for having theselike expansive salt flats, that
kind of go as far as the eye cansee.
Ayuni is a bit of a destinationLike travel industry.
(16:04):
People probably have heard ofthe Bolivian salt flats and
Uyuni, but when you're thereit's like this gateway to all
these other really incredibleoff the grid literally off the
grid places.
So one of those is a place highin the andes I think it's just
(16:27):
like 13 000 feet or somethinglike that, where flamingos nest
really yeah, and to get therefrom a uni you have to get in a
four by four and drive literallylike five hours through the
desert wowand you you're on what for real
looks like mars, like the redrock lunar landscape, and there
(16:49):
are just these like very bizarrelagoons made out of like salt
and and sulfur, and in theselagoons are sort of these white
alabaster islands, surrounded bypink or like aquamarine water,
and that's where flamingos nest.
Wow, yeah, so you end up inplaces like that.
(17:12):
I have to Google it because Iwrote the book.
I literally wrote the book onthis, but now I can't remember.
Eduardo Avaroa Andean NationalReserve that's the name of it.
Angela Tuell (17:23):
Okay, wow.
So what book is that in?
Joe Sills (17:26):
That was in the that will be in the new Bolivia
guidebook for Lonely Planet thatshould be out this fall.
Okay, I don't have an update onit, but we wrote it in April,
something like that.
So it takes a while for them toactually publish that kind of
thing.
Angela Tuell (17:42):
Okay, we'll have to watch for that one too.
So you mentioned earlier thatyou are also a photographer.
You mentioned visual.
How does the visual side ofstorytelling influence the way
you report?
Joe Sills (17:54):
It's absolutely massive, to the point where when
I go to write a story, Iliterally will pull up an album
on my phone or my laptop of thephotos that I took on the trip
and while I might have like theopening line or two in the story
in my head to get theatmosphere of the place and to
really paint that picture withmy words, I'm using photos I
(18:18):
took like on the ground and itis totally essential to what I
do.
I could never do it without acamera yeah, and you have to
capture everything in the waythat you're seeing it.
Angela Tuell (18:29):
There's also that?
Joe Sills (18:31):
yeah, because when you, when you are shooting as a
photographer um, really, I'mtalking about having like a
Nikon or or Sony or Canon and areal like an SLR or a mirrorless
camera because you have thisviewfinder that you kind of see
the world through and it blocksout other distractions when you
(18:52):
look at it.
So you kind of train your eyeinadvertently to see the world
in that way through these lenses.
And I liken it to back in theday when I was like a skater kid
.
You saw the world as a skaterlike.
You saw curbs differently.
It wasn't where you park yourcar, it was like a place to jump
(19:13):
on and grind or do a trick orsomething Right.
And photography is the exactsame.
You see the world through theselenses and it frames your whole
story from a visual and copystandpoint.
Angela Tuell (19:26):
Yeah, I think that makes you a better writer.
Joe Sills (19:29):
I hope so.
Angela Tuell (19:30):
Yeah, so what are you the proudest of in your
career so far?
I know there have been someamazing things, such as winning
Adweek's interview podcast ofthe year being a member of the
Explorers Club broadcasting thefirst daily podcast from an
expedition in the Arctic Circle,and I'm sure I could go on.
Joe Sills (19:49):
Yeah, it sounds crazy when you say it like that.
The Explorers Club is importantto me because as a travel
writer, I wasn't like in theworld of science.
I didn't come into theExplorers Club through academia.
I'm not a researcher, but Ilearned in my travels that there
(20:11):
have always been a few mediamembers that are part of the
Explorers Club, which is thissort of scientific
research-based institution inNew York, and the idea is to get
in, you have to contribute in ameaningful way to science.
So that was important to me toknow that.
Hey, I've done enough work hereoutside of the travel space but
(20:33):
because I'm in these weirdplaces, that in a very small way
, this camera and my pen,figuratively, have contributed a
little bit to science.
Yeah, for me for a long time,that was really the highlight.
The ad week thing is cool.
I think 2020 was a big year forpodcasting or a lot of them
(20:54):
there.
I was stunned to win that.
I mean, it was beating out likewhat I would call real media
companies.
It was just me and my house.
That is fantastic but the mostproud I really think it's that
svalbard trip that I haven'twritten about.
That was indescribable, likethe look on these kids faces.
I just I can't even.
I'll never get over it.
I'll never get over watchingthese kids just have a snowball
(21:17):
fight.
You know they like never getsnow like that.
So while all of the adults arelike let's go to the ice caves
and let's look for polar bears,and let's talk about science and
they're just like snowballs.
It was great.
Angela Tuell (21:32):
Yeah, it really shows you what it was life
changing for you too.
Joe Sills (21:37):
Yeah, it meant, it meant so much.
Angela Tuell (21:39):
So for PR pros listening, which that's a large
part of our audience.
Joe Sills (21:43):
Hello PR pros.
Angela Tuell (21:46):
What is some of your advice for us, or you know
any pet peeves?
Joe Sills (21:52):
Patience.
You guys already know thatTravel writing is such a hard
game and it's getting harder allthe time.
There are so many buyouts ofmajor companies.
Even when you get your foot inthe door these days, corporate
America will slam it in yourface.
Angela Tuell (22:12):
Right.
Joe Sills (22:15):
Like I recall getting my first assignment at Nat Geo
and I thought wow, this is it.
Like this is a dream.
Now I'm going to have a workingrelationship with them, because
all my other workingrelationships start off with you
know, a foot in the door andthen you're off to the races,
right.
But it's not like that you gotto with them.
In my experience I always hadto come back as if they had no
(22:37):
idea that I even worked for them, and mostly I think they don't.
And some companies arewonderful you have an amazing
relationship with like TravelChannel is a perfect example.
I was like, I felt like I wastheir go-to or one of their
go-tos for many years and thenthey got bought by a bigger
company and they don't even dotravel anymore.
(22:59):
It's just ghosts.
So patience is so, so importantand also, I think,
understanding that if you workon a writer, on a story, and it
doesn't work out, for whateverreason, give them another shot.
As long as they're not like anabrasive, horrible person,
(23:19):
there's probably a reason whythat didn't work out and it
might be out of their control.
Angela Tuell (23:23):
Yeah, we're all humans, right, Give each other
grace.
Joe Sills (23:26):
For sure yeah.
Angela Tuell (23:28):
That is good advice.
How often are you traveling now?
Joe Sills (23:32):
Pretty constantly.
There have been years where I'moff of the road for six months
at a time.
These days, I'm lucky to getsix days at home.
Wow, yeah, these days I'm luckyto get six days at home, yeah,
so because the economy is so upand down right now, I feel like
I'm having to work really,really hard and to earn less.
Quite honestly, it's just how Ithink it's going to be for a
(23:56):
little while.
Angela Tuell (23:56):
Yeah, you know, when you're a freelancer, when
you have your own business orany of those, it's hard to turn
down work as well, so you takeeverything you know I don't want
to say you take everything, butyou know you take the work and
because you're not sure what'sgoing to happen, You're not, but
I will say there's so muchpower in saying no to an
opportunity.
That is true.
Joe Sills (24:16):
Yes, because if you get overloaded and overcommit,
it's as bad as you're doing ahorrible job, maybe even worse.
Angela Tuell (24:23):
Yes, yes, that's a good point.
Yeah, so do you prefer, or whatdo you prefer, in hosted trips,
and how do you decide whichones you'll take?
Joe Sills (24:33):
Hosted trips are such an interesting bag right now.
Um, back in the day, um in mytwenties, I took everything.
I was like let's's go, I'mgoing everywhere.
These days, I'm much moreselective about who I work with.
Um, in a hosted trip.
I need to know what your clientis like.
Um, from a pr side, like, arethey gonna be a chill,
(24:58):
understanding client or are theygonna nitpick you on minutiae,
right?
Um, like, I had a trip one timewhere, uh, the the client was
telling the pr agency, um for meand a group of writers to send
like receipts of everything.
Like to like a gas stationvisit, like if you bought the
(25:20):
wrong gummy worms, or like abeer or something.
Like they weren't going to payfor that, and I think nitpicking
is like the worst.
You need to have a partner thathas some experience with the
media and knows, like where thatright middle ground is Like,
cause you do have to like kickus a little bit sometimes, right
?
(25:40):
You got to get the ball rollingafter a trip, but you also can't
drive people nuts because youknow, maybe I'm writing that
story for $500.
, Maybe I'm running it for$1,000.
Maybe I'm running it for $50.
Right, you know, and that'shard to do when you have.
You have to pay the bills.
Angela Tuell (25:59):
Yes, yeah, it's the I mean.
Obviously we love working withclients that understand that as
well from the PR side.
Joe Sills (26:05):
Do you think they do?
Do you think like it's, it'sunderstood on the client end,
like how the industry works?
Angela Tuell (26:12):
I think some do.
You know it's our job to teachthem if they don't, or tell them
or show them.
I do really love some sub stackswe receive from journalists
that give that kind of advicetoo, because we share those
things with clients, but youknow some of them, whether they
are a government or aninternational government entity
or um some have policies andthings that they have to follow,
(26:34):
you know, that are more strict,and so that part is more
challenging, for the clientsusually do, or we like to work
with ones that do.
Joe Sills (26:47):
I'm glad to hear that I've had some press trip
opportunities where you say yesand then you get into this
situation where it feels likeyou're filling out a grant
application to go on a trip andI'm like I don't know.
Like I'm very lucky throughsome of my relationships, I can
almost always guarantee I'mgoing to place a story, but at
the same time, most of mycolleagues are not that way.
(27:10):
They cannot operate that wayRight, and also there's value
down the line.
Like hey, maybe we did a tripin 2022, but now, hey, I did a
main story on it Four or fiveyears later.
I'm doing a roundup and hereyou go, here's some new
placement.
Like that matters, you know.
Angela Tuell (27:27):
Yeah, we do up and here you go, here's some new
placement like that matters, youknow, yeah, we do.
We do tell clients that as well.
Like it may not pay off at theright when the trip is over, but
you may see something yearslater totally.
Joe Sills (27:36):
Yeah, it's very normal absolutely.
Angela Tuell (27:38):
What travel or sustainability trends are you
seeing emerge right now thateither excite or concern you?
Joe Sills (27:45):
Super concerned about cruising.
I just did an episode of theTravel Devil podcast about this.
I am just not about these.
Like big thousands of people onboard cruises with water parks
and like the emissions areinsane.
Angela Tuell (28:04):
It's like something like four times um
when an airplane emits per miletravel wow yeah, and airplanes
are the word, or I thoughtairplanes were the worst yeah,
they're pretty bad, but a cruiseship turns out is way worse.
Joe Sills (28:18):
Um I what I like, though, is the trend towards
smaller cruises.
I like, uh, there are a lot ofsailing cruises popping up and
even like boutique things wherethere's only 20 people on like a
chartered sailing vessel.
Angela Tuell (28:31):
Yes, that's like our client DreamYacht Worldwide.
That's what they do.
Joe Sills (28:34):
Sick.
Yeah, exactly, actually, that'sa perfect example of what they
do.
If you were to go down to theVirgin Islands, charter a yacht
with somebody like DreamYacht,then you're cutting your carbon
footprint massively, right.
So that's something I'm keyedin on.
Also, you've got to be awarethat, hey, like our public lands
in the US big time under threat, so the national parks that we
(28:59):
love so much, that we overcrowdquite a lot, they're not
guaranteed to stay the way theyare, to even be accessible,
certainly not to grow.
So I'm deeply concerned aboutthat.
Angela Tuell (29:13):
Yes, those are ones that are on all of our
minds, I think so before we go,maybe we'll end on a positive
note.
Oh, yeah.
I would love to know what elseis you know what's next for you?
What cool destinations orstories?
Joe Sills (29:32):
Yeah, so if there's any editors listening right now,
I'm off to Everest Base Camp inabout three weeks, oh really.
Yeah, I'm not climbing Everestbecause I like my nose and hands
, but I want to go see thismountain because I've been to
the Himalayas and they're reallyspecial to me.
Also, nepal hot topic right nowbut I have a lot of colleagues
(29:56):
and friends there that are fromthere, that are young, so I want
to interview them, get theirtake on tourism in the Himalayas
.
Is it good, is it bad?
Do you want us here or not?
So I'd love to place that storysomewhere when I get back.
And we have a lot of photosupport we have, like Nat Geo
Explorers going with us Doesn'tgive you the keys to their
(30:18):
editing staff, by the way.
It's a totally different branch.
So that's coming up.
And then in next spring I'mdoing a really, really amazing
project in a country in SouthAfrica.
I don't know how much I can sayabout it, but we're going to
reintroduce a large number ofendangered species back into a
(30:40):
reserve that they've beenmissing from for 13 years.
Angela Tuell (30:43):
Oh wow, that sounds like a really cool story.
Joe Sills (30:47):
It's going to be awesome, and that's what I mean
by like making a positivedifference is like, if I can
take this camera, I can take mywords and I can shine it on
something else, let's go.
And, by the way, while I'mthere, if I can meet local
people that are also doing that,that haven't had the
opportunity to do it on a bigstage, I want to hook them up.
Angela Tuell (31:08):
Yes, that's all we can do.
Right Is try to make the worlda better place by ourselves you
know, whatever we can do to makethat happen?
Joe Sills (31:20):
That is the deal.
Like elevate everybody else.
Don't get into the competitivemindset of like people taking
your job.
Just try to help other peopleand if you do that, you're going
to be okay.
Angela Tuell (31:26):
How can our listeners best follow your work
or connect with you online?
Joe Sills (31:30):
So look for me on Instagram and it's at Joe Sills
like a window S-I-L-L-S.
And you can also look uparchived episodes of the Get
Lost podcast.
That was a bi-weekly travelpodcast.
It's on hiatus now, but we didsome really really cool episodes
.
We went to the Amazon in Peruwith Matthew McConaughey, we
(31:51):
went beneath the Giza Plateauwith Rami Romani, who's Zahi
Hawass's godson, and we rode atrain across Siberia.
So some really really funtravel stories that'll get your
head out of politics for a while.
Angela Tuell (32:05):
That's what we need as well.
We will definitely link tothose in our show notes, and
thank you so much, joe.
Joe Sills (32:11):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's great to be with you.
Angela Tuell (32:14):
That's all for this episode of Media in Minutes
, a podcast by CommunicationsRedefined.
Take a moment to rate, reviewand subscribe to our show.
We'd love to hear what youthink you can find more at
communicationsredefinedcom slashpodcast.
I'm your host, Angela Tuell.
Talk to you next time.
Welcome to Media in Minutes.
This is your host, Angela Tuell.
This podcast features in-depthinterviews with those who report
on the world around us.
They share everything fromtheir favorite stories to what
happened behind the lens andgive us a glimpse into their
world From our studio here atCommunications Redefined.
This is Media in Minutes.
Today we're talking with JoeSills, a travel writer,
(00:32):
guidebook author, photographerand podcast host whose work
explores the intersection ofadventure and conservation.
Joe has covered modern traveltrends around the globe, with a
focus on sustainability,human-wildlife, conflict and
delicate ecosystems.
From the delta in Botswana tothe jungles of Nepal and the
wetlands of Brazil, joe hasdocumented some of the world's
(00:53):
most remote and vulnerableenvironments.
His writing has appeared in topoutlets like National
Geographic, lonely Planet andForbes.
Whether he is highlightingecotourism efforts or uncovering
off-the-wall travel experiences, joe brings a thoughtful,
adventurous lens to everyassignment.
Hello, joe.
Joe Sills (01:13):
Hi Angela, How's it going?
Angela Tuell (01:15):
It's going well.
Thank you for joining us andI'm looking forward to talking
with you today.
Joe Sills (01:20):
Look, I'm honored to be here.
Thanks for having me on.
I appreciate the ask and I'mlooking forward to talking to
you a little bit about ourwonderful industry.
Angela Tuell (01:28):
Yes, you've traveled all over the world,
super, super jealous of a lot ofthese travels from Botswana to
Brazil.
We could go on and on.
What first sparked your lovefor travel and how did that
evolve into a writing career?
Joe Sills (01:44):
So yeah, I'm on six continents now.
I haven't been to Antarctica,that's still on the list.
But I would say that the loveof travel came from growing up
in a small town in WestTennessee.
A lot of people thinkTennessee's mountains and things
like that, but in the westernpart it's just a river delta,
(02:05):
like it's cotton fields and aWalmart and that's it.
So when I was a kid my parentswould drive me around the
southeast and the midwest andthat sort of got me used to
being on the road.
But I never thought that it wasa career, like I didn't know
that I was a sports journalist,you know.
So I didn't know that I couldgo and see these places that I
(02:30):
had looked at on TV, onDiscovery Channel, like it just
was so alien to me.
And I remember my first tripout west.
I went to California and I wasin Yosemite National Park and I
just kind of like stopped andlooked around and touched the
granite rocks on the side of thetrail and something clicked
like right there and said, hey,man, like all of this is real,
(02:52):
so why don't you go see as muchof it as you can?
Angela Tuell (02:55):
Yeah, oh, I love that, and you've been.
I don't want to just say lucky,because I'm sure you've worked
incredibly hard to get there.
There was a lot of luck therewas Because you've made I mean
you've been able to make thatyour career, which is very hard
to do.
Joe Sills (03:10):
Yeah, it was hard.
I'd say that I was driven by aneed to break out of my
surroundings.
The truth of it is I had a veryrocky up and down career in
college, Like I dropped out.
I tried to be an Egyptologistand that didn't work and I ended
(03:31):
up delivering pizza, doinggraphic design and, long story
short, after a shooting at myworkplace, I decided to go back
to journalism.
Uh, and that was great.
That was great, Actually, likeone um um.
Everybody was okay.
So shooting could have beenworse um, but it sparked that
(03:52):
idea to go back to, like mycreative roots and I started a
travel blog back then.
This was like 2013, 14, and asI was living out of the back of
a Ford Escape, like going tonational parks, an editor at the
Travel Channel reached out.
They asked me to come on boardand that was that.
Wow so that's where the luckcomes in.
(04:14):
I didn't know that travelwriting was like a thing that
you could get paid for.
Angela Tuell (04:18):
Yeah, yeah, now you know, and now you found out,
it's that you don't get paid aton for it usually.
Joe Sills (04:24):
No, yeah it's.
I think it's the world's mostglorious side hustle.
Angela Tuell (04:28):
Yes, I love that.
I love that.
You know, as you mentioned,you're involved in so many
things, from travel, writing,authoring guidebooks,
photography, podcasting.
Could you tell us more aboutyour current work, what it looks
like now?
Joe Sills (04:41):
Yeah, so right now I'm leaning heavily on creative
stuff.
I'm leaning on visual thingsCommercial photo shoots are big
right now, commercial videoshoots are big right now, and
also copywriting and doing likemarketing comms strategy.
A lot of that is behind thescenes, like I'm not usually on
(05:02):
camera, my byline might not beon a story, but it's what's
paying the bills now because ofthe landscape of travel writing
itself being, as you said, it'slike, pretty unsustainable.
Angela Tuell (05:14):
Yeah, what do you do in the travel writing aspect
right now?
Joe Sills (05:18):
So, as a travel writer, I still go out.
I do guidebooks for LonelyPlanet, which is a great way to
actually have objectivity.
You're not on a press trip.
You don't owe anybody anything.
You're actually not allowed tobe on a press trip to do that.
So you have to go out andinvestigate a place on the
ground, like in the real world,and oftentimes these are far
(05:42):
flung places like Bolivia, wherethere's not a lot of info
online.
So you either have to go towhere the old guidebook was
written and updated or you haveto do something new.
And then I also still writefreelance for whoever I can get
a pitch with.
I write for Forbes, I write forNational Geographic, some
whenever they're kind enough toreturn my email, and pretty much
(06:05):
whoever I can, because I'mstill out there.
At heart, I'm a travel writerand I want to write about travel
.
That is what fuels my soul,yeah.
Angela Tuell (06:15):
And you focus a lot on conservation and
sustainability with your travelwriting right.
Joe Sills (06:19):
That's true.
Angela Tuell (06:21):
What drew you to those themes in particular and
how do you approach coveringthem, you know, responsibly,
while you're still, while you'regoing to those places.
Joe Sills (06:28):
Yeah, I mean obviously by trade.
I think travel writers have ahuge carbon footprint and it's
just how it is Always.
You can buy like carbon offsetsand contribute to positive
causes and I guess in a way thatmakes me feel better about it.
I don't know if it reallychanged anything or not, but
(06:54):
maybe I try.
But conservation when I talkabout conservation, I try to
focus a lot on wildlifeconservation.
I'm a nature lover and my impacthas just happened to be in
places like the fringes of theNepal border with India, in a
place called Bardia, and I wasable to write about human
wildlife conflict there withtigers, big cats and elephants.
(07:16):
In Africa, I've written someabout rhinos.
I stayed at a rhino orphanagefor a while and I've actually
been able to work withscientists in the field to
document a lot of their work,and that just stems from growth,
I think.
When I look back, I mean thefirst few years of my career as
(07:36):
a travel writer.
Like everybody, I was plantingflags and checking off countries
on a list.
Flags and checking offcountries on a list, right, and
it was very self-serving likelook at me, I'm in this
beautiful place, give me all theattention I'm gonna awesome.
Um, I want to go meet like hotinstagram babes right, which it
(07:57):
turns out wasn't really whatwhat I ended up doing?
at all um, I never found them,but I was gonna say are they all
over the place with you?
Angela Tuell (08:04):
no, no, no, not at all.
I never found them.
I was gonna say are they allover the place?
Joe Sills (08:06):
No, no, no, not at all.
Like I would see these, thesepeople on Instagram who are
fantastic photographers, andthat one inspired me to go, but
I never really found that when Iwas in that stage of my life.
Now I have a wonderful partner,Liz, and we see the world
together, but at the time, likeas a young kid in my 20s, like
that wasn't the goal Right.
(08:31):
So now I just want to make adifference.
Like I checked off flags and Ikind of realized it's a little
hollow, right, but if I can takemy camera and I can take my
words and I can shine aspotlight on someone who doesn't
have the tools to tell theirstory, whether it's an animal or
a person, that's what I want todo, because I think that can
actually help someone.
Angela Tuell (08:51):
Yes, and that's when I mean, that's what
journalism is all about a lot oftimes.
Joe Sills (08:56):
Yeah, yeah, that's true At the core of it, when you
are being a real journalist, soto speak.
Yeah, it should be about realcauses and a real impact.
Angela Tuell (09:06):
Yeah, what do you think?
I won't ask you your favorite,but what are your most memorable
stories that go along thoselines?
Joe Sills (09:15):
I have two that really stand out One I just
mentioned and it's calledCamping with Wild Tigers, and I
wrote that in 2014.
Okay, and it was a crazy storyto write, I was not on a press
trip, I was coming off of a hikearound the Annapurna Circuit in
(09:36):
Nepal, in the Himalayas, and Ihad a chance to connect with
some people that run a sort oflike a glamping resort thing
sustainable glamping resortthing down in another region of
Nepal.
That's literally just like ariver delta, hot human jungles,
(09:57):
and so I went down there and wehung out Liz and I hung out with
the owners of this camp for acouple days and some volunteer
rangers, and we were in veryrustic surroundings.
I mean, these are huts thatpeople live in, with thatched
(10:18):
roofs, like you would imagine inan African bush or something
like you would imagine in likean African bush or something,
and just the wonderful people.
But they're having a heck of atime with wildlife conflict
because they live on the fringesof this national park where
there are elephants and tigers,rhinos, leopards, and people are
(10:40):
having like endless encounterswith these animals.
So we wrote about the methodsthey're using to try to make
their community safer, likecamera traps.
They use drones to try to chaseelephants away from crops,
which is a better alternativethan like running at them with a
flaming spear.
You know right um, right, sothat story was really, really
(11:03):
meaningful.
Unfortunately, a woman waskilled while we were there by a
tiger.
Yeah, like, literally, like Ithink it was less than two
kilometers from where we werecamping.
Angela Tuell (11:15):
Oh my goodness, and you were camping.
Joe Sills (11:17):
I mean well, all the homes are open too.
Angela Tuell (11:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Joe Sills (11:21):
Yeah, it was really intense and it took me, I think,
six months to like really writethat story properly.
Yeah, and give it the justicethat I thought it deserved for
that community.
So it's up on Forbes.
If you Google Joe, sills andTigers, it's the first thing
that pops up.
Angela Tuell (11:40):
Awesome.
We will include that in ourshow notes for sure.
What do you wish more editorsor outlets understood about
reporting on sustainability andenvironmental issues?
I know it's more of a thing nowthan 10 years ago, but how
would you answer that?
Joe Sills (11:56):
I think that sometimes I get responses from
editors about a sustainabilitypitch and they say, oh, we've
already covered something likethis, well, that's, that doesn't
really matter.
You should still be coveringother things like that, because
the point is momentum.
And if you find a really coolstory about a lodge that's doing
(12:22):
things sustainably in awildlife area or a community
that's changing the way thatthey interact with the nature
and the plants and the animalsin their area, just because you
did one story like that incountry A doesn't mean you
shouldn't run it in country Btoo, because those could be
totally different audiences.
Angela Tuell (12:40):
Right, absolutely, and it helps you understand the
big picture.
You mentioned two stories.
We only talked about one.
What was the other one?
Joe Sills (12:49):
So the other story is one I haven't really written
yet.
I was so lucky to be on anexpedition this spring in
Svalbard in the Arctic Circle,so this is a group of islands
very north of Norway, even likeseveral hours flight north of
Norway.
Angela Tuell (13:09):
Okay.
Joe Sills (13:09):
It's just snow.
It's just snow Like there aremountains.
You can't tell where they'rethere and they're not, because
it's just snow.
Everything's white.
There's polar bears.
It's intense, but I went upthere to help an explorer friend
lead a group of children from aspecial needs school in the UK
(13:30):
to the Arctic Circle and it wasinsane.
Like these kids, a lot of themhad never left home.
Really they'd never beenoutside of their hometown, so
it's the first time they've beenin an airplane.
Angela Tuell (13:44):
Wow, and that's where they're going.
Joe Sills (13:50):
For real.
Liz and I met up with them atthe airport in London and met
these kids for the first time.
I think there were like a dozenof them, okay, maybe ages like
10 to 17.
Angela Tuell (14:00):
Okay.
Joe Sills (14:00):
And they all have some need, some special thing
that's going on with them thathas caused the outside world to
put a label on them, whetherthey're on the spectrum for
something or whether, like inone case, it was just a kid that
couldn't walk, he wasparaplegic.
So they have these labels andtheir whole life.
You know the outside world issaying, look, you can't do this,
(14:22):
you can't do that, you can't dothat, you can never do these
things.
And Mark Wood, who's a polarexplorer in the UK, said, well,
screw that.
Like, let's take them somewhere, let's prove to them they can
do anything.
Angela Tuell (14:36):
Oh wow, that's awesome yeah.
Joe Sills (14:38):
So we took them to Svalbard Mark, liz, myself,
several other people Shout outRory, hamish, vic, but a bunch
of people who are like bona fideexplorers, yeah.
And then we're kind of taggingalong as the film crew and we
took these kids to go dogsledding and they went on
snowmobiles, they climbedthrough ice caverns and got to
(15:04):
see this incredible, vanishingpart of the planet wow, that is
fantastic.
I cannot wait to read that, soyou have to write it I know I
have to find the downtime andlike the headspace to do it yeah
, that's another one, to tell itproperly, right?
Yeah, it's like I can't justwhip that out.
Um, it has to be like I need aweek to sit down and really
(15:26):
hammer this out yes, yes, we'llbe watching for that thank you
so on the flip side, you alsowrite about off-the-wall
destinations what are some ofthe most unexpected places
you've visited how'd you?
Angela Tuell (15:39):
find them unexpected places.
Joe Sills (15:42):
Um, finding them has a lot to do with the Lonely
Planet gig.
Okay, you end up in thesereally ridiculous places, for
instance, ayuni, which is a townin South America, in Bolivia.
It's famous for having theselike expansive salt flats, that
kind of go as far as the eye cansee.
Ayuni is a bit of a destinationLike travel industry.
(16:04):
People probably have heard ofthe Bolivian salt flats and
Uyuni, but when you're thereit's like this gateway to all
these other really incredibleoff the grid literally off the
grid places.
So one of those is a place highin the andes I think it's just
(16:27):
like 13 000 feet or somethinglike that, where flamingos nest
really yeah, and to get therefrom a uni you have to get in a
four by four and drive literallylike five hours through the
desert wowand you you're on what for real
looks like mars, like the redrock lunar landscape, and there
(16:49):
are just these like very bizarrelagoons made out of like salt
and and sulfur, and in theselagoons are sort of these white
alabaster islands, surrounded bypink or like aquamarine water,
and that's where flamingos nest.
Wow, yeah, so you end up inplaces like that.
(17:12):
I have to Google it because Iwrote the book.
I literally wrote the book onthis, but now I can't remember.
Eduardo Avaroa Andean NationalReserve that's the name of it.
Angela Tuell (17:23):
Okay, wow.
So what book is that in?
Joe Sills (17:26):
That was in the that will be in the new Bolivia
guidebook for Lonely Planet thatshould be out this fall.
Okay, I don't have an update onit, but we wrote it in April,
something like that.
So it takes a while for them toactually publish that kind of
thing.
Angela Tuell (17:42):
Okay, we'll have to watch for that one too.
So you mentioned earlier thatyou are also a photographer.
You mentioned visual.
How does the visual side ofstorytelling influence the way
you report?
Joe Sills (17:54):
It's absolutely massive, to the point where when
I go to write a story, Iliterally will pull up an album
on my phone or my laptop of thephotos that I took on the trip
and while I might have like theopening line or two in the story
in my head to get theatmosphere of the place and to
really paint that picture withmy words, I'm using photos I
(18:18):
took like on the ground and itis totally essential to what I
do.
I could never do it without acamera yeah, and you have to
capture everything in the waythat you're seeing it.
Angela Tuell (18:29):
There's also that?
Joe Sills (18:31):
yeah, because when you, when you are shooting as a
photographer um, really, I'mtalking about having like a
Nikon or or Sony or Canon and areal like an SLR or a mirrorless
camera because you have thisviewfinder that you kind of see
the world through and it blocksout other distractions when you
(18:52):
look at it.
So you kind of train your eyeinadvertently to see the world
in that way through these lenses.
And I liken it to back in theday when I was like a skater kid
.
You saw the world as a skaterlike.
You saw curbs differently.
It wasn't where you park yourcar, it was like a place to jump
(19:13):
on and grind or do a trick orsomething Right.
And photography is the exactsame.
You see the world through theselenses and it frames your whole
story from a visual and copystandpoint.
Angela Tuell (19:26):
Yeah, I think that makes you a better writer.
Joe Sills (19:29):
I hope so.
Angela Tuell (19:30):
Yeah, so what are you the proudest of in your
career so far?
I know there have been someamazing things, such as winning
Adweek's interview podcast ofthe year being a member of the
Explorers Club broadcasting thefirst daily podcast from an
expedition in the Arctic Circle,and I'm sure I could go on.
Joe Sills (19:49):
Yeah, it sounds crazy when you say it like that.
The Explorers Club is importantto me because as a travel
writer, I wasn't like in theworld of science.
I didn't come into theExplorers Club through academia.
I'm not a researcher, but Ilearned in my travels that there
(20:11):
have always been a few mediamembers that are part of the
Explorers Club, which is thissort of scientific
research-based institution inNew York, and the idea is to get
in, you have to contribute in ameaningful way to science.
So that was important to me toknow that.
Hey, I've done enough work hereoutside of the travel space but
(20:33):
because I'm in these weirdplaces, that in a very small way
, this camera and my pen,figuratively, have contributed a
little bit to science.
Yeah, for me for a long time,that was really the highlight.
The ad week thing is cool.
I think 2020 was a big year forpodcasting or a lot of them
(20:54):
there.
I was stunned to win that.
I mean, it was beating out likewhat I would call real media
companies.
It was just me and my house.
That is fantastic but the mostproud I really think it's that
svalbard trip that I haven'twritten about.
That was indescribable, likethe look on these kids faces.
I just I can't even.
I'll never get over it.
I'll never get over watchingthese kids just have a snowball
(21:17):
fight.
You know they like never getsnow like that.
So while all of the adults arelike let's go to the ice caves
and let's look for polar bears,and let's talk about science and
they're just like snowballs.
It was great.
Angela Tuell (21:32):
Yeah, it really shows you what it was life
changing for you too.
Joe Sills (21:37):
Yeah, it meant, it meant so much.
Angela Tuell (21:39):
So for PR pros listening, which that's a large
part of our audience.
Joe Sills (21:43):
Hello PR pros.
Angela Tuell (21:46):
What is some of your advice for us, or you know
any pet peeves?
Joe Sills (21:52):
Patience.
You guys already know thatTravel writing is such a hard
game and it's getting harder allthe time.
There are so many buyouts ofmajor companies.
Even when you get your foot inthe door these days, corporate
America will slam it in yourface.
Angela Tuell (22:12):
Right.
Joe Sills (22:15):
Like I recall getting my first assignment at Nat Geo
and I thought wow, this is it.
Like this is a dream.
Now I'm going to have a workingrelationship with them, because
all my other workingrelationships start off with you
know, a foot in the door andthen you're off to the races,
right.
But it's not like that you gotto with them.
In my experience I always hadto come back as if they had no
(22:37):
idea that I even worked for them, and mostly I think they don't.
And some companies arewonderful you have an amazing
relationship with like TravelChannel is a perfect example.
I was like, I felt like I wastheir go-to or one of their
go-tos for many years and thenthey got bought by a bigger
company and they don't even dotravel anymore.
(22:59):
It's just ghosts.
So patience is so, so importantand also, I think,
understanding that if you workon a writer, on a story, and it
doesn't work out, for whateverreason, give them another shot.
As long as they're not like anabrasive, horrible person,
(23:19):
there's probably a reason whythat didn't work out and it
might be out of their control.
Angela Tuell (23:23):
Yeah, we're all humans, right, Give each other
grace.
Joe Sills (23:26):
For sure yeah.
Angela Tuell (23:28):
That is good advice.
How often are you traveling now?
Joe Sills (23:32):
Pretty constantly.
There have been years where I'moff of the road for six months
at a time.
These days, I'm lucky to getsix days at home.
Wow, yeah, these days I'm luckyto get six days at home, yeah,
so because the economy is so upand down right now, I feel like
I'm having to work really,really hard and to earn less.
Quite honestly, it's just how Ithink it's going to be for a
(23:56):
little while.
Angela Tuell (23:56):
Yeah, you know, when you're a freelancer, when
you have your own business orany of those, it's hard to turn
down work as well, so you takeeverything you know I don't want
to say you take everything, butyou know you take the work and
because you're not sure what'sgoing to happen, You're not, but
I will say there's so muchpower in saying no to an
opportunity.
That is true.
Joe Sills (24:16):
Yes, because if you get overloaded and overcommit,
it's as bad as you're doing ahorrible job, maybe even worse.
Angela Tuell (24:23):
Yes, yes, that's a good point.
Yeah, so do you prefer, or whatdo you prefer, in hosted trips,
and how do you decide whichones you'll take?
Joe Sills (24:33):
Hosted trips are such an interesting bag right now.
Um, back in the day, um in mytwenties, I took everything.
I was like let's's go, I'mgoing everywhere.
These days, I'm much moreselective about who I work with.
Um, in a hosted trip.
I need to know what your clientis like.
Um, from a pr side, like, arethey gonna be a chill,
(24:58):
understanding client or are theygonna nitpick you on minutiae,
right?
Um, like, I had a trip one timewhere, uh, the the client was
telling the pr agency, um for meand a group of writers to send
like receipts of everything.
Like to like a gas stationvisit, like if you bought the
(25:20):
wrong gummy worms, or like abeer or something.
Like they weren't going to payfor that, and I think nitpicking
is like the worst.
You need to have a partner thathas some experience with the
media and knows, like where thatright middle ground is Like,
cause you do have to like kickus a little bit sometimes, right
?
(25:40):
You got to get the ball rollingafter a trip, but you also can't
drive people nuts because youknow, maybe I'm writing that
story for $500.
, Maybe I'm running it for$1,000.
Maybe I'm running it for $50.
Right, you know, and that'shard to do when you have.
You have to pay the bills.
Angela Tuell (25:59):
Yes, yeah, it's the I mean.
Obviously we love working withclients that understand that as
well from the PR side.
Joe Sills (26:05):
Do you think they do?
Do you think like it's, it'sunderstood on the client end,
like how the industry works?
Angela Tuell (26:12):
I think some do.
You know it's our job to teachthem if they don't, or tell them
or show them.
I do really love some sub stackswe receive from journalists
that give that kind of advicetoo, because we share those
things with clients, but youknow some of them, whether they
are a government or aninternational government entity
or um some have policies andthings that they have to follow,
(26:34):
you know, that are more strict,and so that part is more
challenging, for the clientsusually do, or we like to work
with ones that do.
Joe Sills (26:47):
I'm glad to hear that I've had some press trip
opportunities where you say yesand then you get into this
situation where it feels likeyou're filling out a grant
application to go on a trip andI'm like I don't know.
Like I'm very lucky throughsome of my relationships, I can
almost always guarantee I'mgoing to place a story, but at
the same time, most of mycolleagues are not that way.
(27:10):
They cannot operate that wayRight, and also there's value
down the line.
Like hey, maybe we did a tripin 2022, but now, hey, I did a
main story on it Four or fiveyears later.
I'm doing a roundup and hereyou go, here's some new
placement.
Like that matters, you know.
Angela Tuell (27:27):
Yeah, we do up and here you go, here's some new
placement like that matters, youknow, yeah, we do.
We do tell clients that as well.
Like it may not pay off at theright when the trip is over, but
you may see something yearslater totally.
Joe Sills (27:36):
Yeah, it's very normal absolutely.
Angela Tuell (27:38):
What travel or sustainability trends are you
seeing emerge right now thateither excite or concern you?
Joe Sills (27:45):
Super concerned about cruising.
I just did an episode of theTravel Devil podcast about this.
I am just not about these.
Like big thousands of people onboard cruises with water parks
and like the emissions areinsane.
Angela Tuell (28:04):
It's like something like four times um
when an airplane emits per miletravel wow yeah, and airplanes
are the word, or I thoughtairplanes were the worst yeah,
they're pretty bad, but a cruiseship turns out is way worse.
Joe Sills (28:18):
Um I what I like, though, is the trend towards
smaller cruises.
I like, uh, there are a lot ofsailing cruises popping up and
even like boutique things wherethere's only 20 people on like a
chartered sailing vessel.
Angela Tuell (28:31):
Yes, that's like our client DreamYacht Worldwide.
That's what they do.
Joe Sills (28:34):
Sick.
Yeah, exactly, actually, that'sa perfect example of what they
do.
If you were to go down to theVirgin Islands, charter a yacht
with somebody like DreamYacht,then you're cutting your carbon
footprint massively, right.
So that's something I'm keyedin on.
Also, you've got to be awarethat, hey, like our public lands
in the US big time under threat, so the national parks that we
(28:59):
love so much, that we overcrowdquite a lot, they're not
guaranteed to stay the way theyare, to even be accessible,
certainly not to grow.
So I'm deeply concerned aboutthat.
Angela Tuell (29:13):
Yes, those are ones that are on all of our
minds, I think so before we go,maybe we'll end on a positive
note.
Oh, yeah.
I would love to know what elseis you know what's next for you?
What cool destinations orstories?
Joe Sills (29:32):
Yeah, so if there's any editors listening right now,
I'm off to Everest Base Camp inabout three weeks, oh really.
Yeah, I'm not climbing Everestbecause I like my nose and hands
, but I want to go see thismountain because I've been to
the Himalayas and they're reallyspecial to me.
Also, nepal hot topic right nowbut I have a lot of colleagues
(29:56):
and friends there that are fromthere, that are young, so I want
to interview them, get theirtake on tourism in the Himalayas
.
Is it good, is it bad?
Do you want us here or not?
So I'd love to place that storysomewhere when I get back.
And we have a lot of photosupport we have, like Nat Geo
Explorers going with us Doesn'tgive you the keys to their
(30:18):
editing staff, by the way.
It's a totally different branch.
So that's coming up.
And then in next spring I'mdoing a really, really amazing
project in a country in SouthAfrica.
I don't know how much I can sayabout it, but we're going to
reintroduce a large number ofendangered species back into a
(30:40):
reserve that they've beenmissing from for 13 years.
Angela Tuell (30:43):
Oh wow, that sounds like a really cool story.
Joe Sills (30:47):
It's going to be awesome, and that's what I mean
by like making a positivedifference is like, if I can
take this camera, I can take mywords and I can shine it on
something else, let's go.
And, by the way, while I'mthere, if I can meet local
people that are also doing that,that haven't had the
opportunity to do it on a bigstage, I want to hook them up.
Angela Tuell (31:08):
Yes, that's all we can do.
Right Is try to make the worlda better place by ourselves you
know, whatever we can do to makethat happen?
Joe Sills (31:20):
That is the deal.
Like elevate everybody else.
Don't get into the competitivemindset of like people taking
your job.
Just try to help other peopleand if you do that, you're going
to be okay.
Angela Tuell (31:26):
How can our listeners best follow your work
or connect with you online?
Joe Sills (31:30):
So look for me on Instagram and it's at Joe Sills
like a window S-I-L-L-S.
And you can also look uparchived episodes of the Get
Lost podcast.
That was a bi-weekly travelpodcast.
It's on hiatus now, but we didsome really really cool episodes
.
We went to the Amazon in Peruwith Matthew McConaughey, we
(31:51):
went beneath the Giza Plateauwith Rami Romani, who's Zahi
Hawass's godson, and we rode atrain across Siberia.
So some really really funtravel stories that'll get your
head out of politics for a while.
Angela Tuell (32:05):
That's what we need as well.
We will definitely link tothose in our show notes, and
thank you so much, joe.
Joe Sills (32:11):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's great to be with you.
Angela Tuell (32:14):
That's all for this episode of Media in Minutes
, a podcast by CommunicationsRedefined.
Take a moment to rate, reviewand subscribe to our show.
We'd love to hear what youthink you can find more at
communicationsredefinedcom slashpodcast.
I'm your host, Angela Tuell.
Talk to you next time.
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