April 17, 2025 • 35 mins
Award-winning travel journalist Lisa Niver takes us behind the scenes of her remarkable career spanning all seven continents and more than 100 countries. With warmth and candor, she reveals how a former teacher and medical school student transformed personal hardship into a life of extraordinary adventure.
Lisa's journey resembles a game of "Shoots and Ladders" – unpredictable, challenging and ultimately rewarding. She shares how working at Club Med and on cruise ships opened doors to global exploration when she couldn't afford exotic trips on a teacher's salary. These experiences laid the foundation for her website We Said Go Travel, which she launched in 2010 while traveling through Asia with her then-husband.
The conversation takes an emotional turn as Lisa discusses her memoir "Brave-ish: One Breakup, Six Continents and Feeling Fearless After 50." Written partly in her therapist's office, this award-winning book chronicles how travel became her path to healing and reinvention following divorce. Her vulnerability in sharing both triumphant adventures and painful struggles resonates deeply with readers seeking their own fresh start.
Among Lisa's most thrilling experiences? Hula-hooping at the southernmost post office in Antarctica, completing a polar plunge in both polar regions within six months, mountain biking despite childhood trauma and paddleboarding in Antarctic waters. These adventures aren't just personal victories – they're content for her prolific output across National Geographic, Reader's Digest, television segments, podcasts and social media channels with over two million YouTube views.
For media professionals, Lisa offers invaluable insights on building genuine relationships with PR teams based on mutual support rather than transactions. Her approach to content creation is equally refreshing: start small, stay consistent and remember that even the most daunting goals can be achieved "one bite at a time." Lisa's journey proves it's never too late to reinvent yourself through courage, persistence and a passport.
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Episode Transcript
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Angela Tuell (00:05):
Welcome to Media in Minutes.
This is your host, Angela Tuell.
This podcast features in-depthinterviews with those who report
on the world around us.
They share everything fromtheir favorite stories to what
happened behind the lens andgive us a glimpse into their
world From our studio here atCommunications Redefined.
This is Media in Minutes.
On today's episode, we aretalking with award-winning
(00:32):
travel journalist, tv host andauthor, lisa Niver.
Lisa is an adventurer who hasexplored all seven continents
and over 100 countries.
She is also the award-winningauthor of Bravish One Breakup
Six Continents and FeelingFearless After 50.
With a passion for pushingboundaries, she has journeyed
(00:52):
through the desert in Mongolia,scuba dived with bull sharks in
Mexico, snorkeled with whalesharks in the Philippines and
swam with the humpback whales inTonga.
Her adventures include polarbear walking safaris in Canada,
twice taking a polar plunge inAntarctica and experiencing
thrilling safari encounters withAfrica's Big Five.
(01:15):
Lisa is also a sought-afterinternational speaker and the
host of the podcast Make yourOwn Map Hi, Lisa.
Lisa Niver (01:23):
Hi Angela, I'm so excited to be here with you.
Angela Tuell (01:26):
Me too, I am very much looking forward to talking
with you today.
In researching for this episode, I determined I must start with
your fairly recent book andmemoir Brave-ish, which I love.
One Breakup, six Continents andFeeling Fear, fearless after 50
.
Please tell us more about yourstory and how you became a
(01:48):
travel journalist.
Lisa Niver (01:50):
Well, thank you so much.
I'm so excited to be here withyou and, yes, I have a memoir
and Bravish.
It's kind of funny about thatbook is a lot about my travel
journalist journey.
But I got started.
It's so funny it's like hard toknow where to go back to.
But I honestly, I was teachingand I left on an adventure and
(02:14):
my students were really sad thatI was leaving and I promised to
send back a newsletter andwhile I was traveling for a year
, mostly in Asia, it was reallythe beginning of the blog
revolution and so when I cameback from that trip, I started.
We Said Go Travel, which is mytravel site.
I started that in 2010.
And building that site was thebeginning of becoming an actual,
(02:37):
real travel journalist.
Angela Tuell (02:39):
So you were a teacher.
Was that your first career?
Lisa Niver (02:42):
No, I tell people my career is like remember the
game shoots and ladders.
Yes, yes, that's my career.
So I went.
I grew up in California, I wentto Penn, I went to med school
in California.
I wasn't that happy.
I took a year out.
I tried to think about whatmade me happy and I ended up
(03:04):
starting to teach and while Iwas in my sort of gap year after
college you know now it's muchmore popular to take a gap year
at the time I had studied anIsrael semester abroad and
anyway, I guess we can call itmy gap year I learned to scuba
dive and I fell in love withscuba diving and I was teaching.
(03:24):
I also worked for a littlewhile at Planned Parenthood
because I was like, am I goingback into medicine?
Am I doing education?
You know, where am I in science?
Right?
So when I was teaching, Ireally couldn't afford these
exotic, amazing scuba trips thateveryone else was going on, so
I ended up.
a friend of my sister's hadworked for Club Med and, through
(03:47):
a series of crazy events, whichis all in my book, I ended up
working for Club Med skiing.
Angela Tuell (03:54):
Okay.
Lisa Niver (03:55):
Which is confusing, because I told you I wanted to
go scuba diving, but that's howit got started.
Angela Tuell (03:59):
Right, there's quite a difference between cold
weather sports and warm weathersports, although it doesn't have
to be warm to scuba dive, right, if you have the right gear.
No, it doesn't.
Lisa Niver (04:08):
When I was at one point after Club Med.
I worked for seven years oncruise ships and at one point my
dive buddy and I from theCaribbean we actually went scuba
diving in Juneau in Alaska indry suits.
Angela Tuell (04:19):
Wow, okay.
So yes, that is a thing.
Lisa Niver (04:23):
Dry suits.
Cold is a thing, but it's beensort of a.
You know, when you look when Iwas working on the memoir and
going back and forth through mywhole career, you can see that
there were a lot of throughlines.
But it's hard when you're inyour 20s or trying to figure out
.
You know, like during COVID orafter 9-11, which were all
things that shifted my careeragain you don't have a lot of
(04:46):
perspective.
Sometimes, when you're in themiddle of the storm, I'm like am
I making good choices?
Should I keep going?
Do I start over?
Like a lot of times I went backand taught.
I'm like I'll just go teachagain and figure out what am I
going to do next?
Angela Tuell (04:59):
Yes, so how did you make it your career then?
The travel writing?
At what point did that happenand how'd you do it?
Lisa Niver (05:07):
I was teaching and traveling, and teaching and
traveling.
I had started the website and Iwent on another long trip.
So one of the things thathelped make it my career was
having very low expenses andtraveling in Asia on low
expenses.
I could run the website andhone my craft.
I did not go to journalismschool but I started going to
(05:27):
different workshops and there'sso many conferences.
I have a whole playlist on myYouTube channel.
That's just all the differentconference videos going to
travel classics, tbex, imm.
I don't think there's aconference I've heard of that.
I haven't been to, although Iam going to a new conference in
(05:49):
April.
I'm going for the first time toC-Trade, which is the cruise
line industry, so I'll be there.
I'm going to be in Miami forC-Trade and then I'm going on
the brand new MSC ship.
I'd say that what made mycareer happen is really a lot of
networking and persistence.
Angela Tuell (06:08):
Yeah, you have to be very self-motivated in that
type of career.
Lisa Niver (06:13):
Yeah, people ask me that, like how do you get so
many videos done, or how do youget so many articles, and I tell
them it's because I used to bea teacher and I basically just
give myself homework.
Angela Tuell (06:24):
And deadlines right.
Lisa Niver (06:25):
And deadlines.
Yes, ma'am.
Angela Tuell (06:28):
So you mentioned spending three years traveling
across Asia.
What was the most surprisingthing?
You learned.
That's a good question.
Lisa Niver (06:36):
The most surprising thing I learned is that you
really don't need a lot of stuff, need a lot of stuff, and that
slowing down can make travel somuch better.
I noticed a lot of people, likeyou know, sometimes people be
on a short trip and they'll askme you know, I want to go to
(06:56):
these four countries in Europeon my seven day trip.
I'm like, well, you can, butyou're going to come home so
tired and you'll definitely geta flavor, I think on a cruise,
you know, going to a countryevery day is different because
you only unpack once.
I don't really like theunpacking or war, you know,
wondering like, well, will weget in in time?
Was the which room key is it?
(07:18):
Do we have the right address?
So, um, I like to slow down alittle bit.
And one trip I went on inMongolia.
We went on this 11 day van tripto the Gobi Desert and they
told me that we were going tothe vast expanse of nothingness
and I said, how will I know whenI get there?
And they're like Lisa, you'llknow and you knew, and you knew.
(07:49):
Yeah, I think being in Asia feltjust so miraculously different.
I speak decent Spanish and Icould be mostly understood in
French and Italian being in Asia.
I told someone, or I told FreyChan Hao I was in China.
I said Frey Chan Hao, frey ChanHao.
And the man looked at mytraveling companion and said I
don't speak English.
And he looked at her and saidshe's not speaking English.
(08:10):
So you know, sometimes it'svery hard to be understood Like
you're like okay, we're in areally different place.
Also, when I was traveling inChina, we literally walked up to
the bus station, kind of in themiddle of nowhere.
The Lonely Planet had all ofthe information in the local
dialect characters and I heldopen the book and some random
(08:35):
person looked at the book and Ipointed, and they pointed and I
put money in my hand and theytook money and they put me on
the bus.
Angela Tuell (08:43):
And you were hoping you were on the right bus
right.
Not only was were hoping youwere on the right bus right.
Lisa Niver (08:46):
Not only was I hoping I was on the right bus, I
was hoping someone would throwme off the bus at the right stop
, Right and you know, and theycould have just taken all my
money and not put me on the bus.
But I felt like we reallytrusted in the town.
And we went to this little townand the man was making noodles
by hand and I took a video ofhim making the noodles and you
(09:09):
can imagine my surprise when hetook a video of me eating the
noodles.
And then he showed me a photo ofessentially the last Western
tourist who'd come into hisstore and eat.
It was a teeny little town, itwas a thousand years old.
It was amazing.
It was in the Lonely Planet.
(09:30):
We felt like we were on thebackpacker trail sort of.
But it's very different and youjust have to really trust that
y'all are going to get to thenext place literally.
Angela Tuell (09:44):
Right, you have so many incredible travels and
you've been to over 100countries.
Are there any that you wouldsay top the others?
I won't ask for a very favoriteor anything, but ones that
really stick out Actually rightnow.
Lisa Niver (09:58):
you could ask me that because I just went in
January to Antarctica, just wentin January to Antarctica and so
that was my final continent andthe subtitle of my book says
six continents.
So I was really hoping duringmy book tour that I'd get to my
final continent, because it feltlike such a part of the whole
(10:19):
book process you know, writingthe book and thinking about the
book and then being like whatare what?
You know, what's your goalafter the book.
And Antarctica to me was such ahonestly a blessing of just
believing that you could makesomething happen, like to be
invited to go there and writestories.
And I went with QuarkExpeditions and it was literally
(10:45):
every night.
It's an expedition ship, so alot of the things they're not
sure, like this is our plan butwe'll see how it goes.
So every night they have recapand briefing and they talk about
the day and they said you know,we always hope when we're here
in this part of Antarctica thatwe're going to see all three
species of penguins that youmight see here.
And you know, today we saw thethird one, the Adelie penguin.
(11:12):
You can only see them inAntarctica.
Sometimes people come here andbecause of the weather or
because of the ice, or becauseof X number of reasons, we don't
see them.
And basically every night waslike that.
They're like well, we reallyhope we might be able to go
through the Le Maire channel,but we have to wait till we see
it with our own eyes and look atthe ice and see how the flow is
.
And one morning we weregenerally up, you know, seven,
(11:33):
seven, 30.
And there's so much to do witha Zodiac cruise cruising and the
landing, and my ship had twohelicopters, which was amazing.
So one morning the the speakergoes off, it was 620.
I'm like good morning, goodmorning, get out of your beds,
we can see orcas.
Oh, wow, and just it felt veryto me, you know, magical.
(11:57):
Like you know, some people wantall their lives to take their
kids to Disneyland.
I want all my life to go seethe ice in Antarctica and I got
to do funny things.
So I travel with a hula hoopand so I asked for permission
and I hula hooped on the bridgeof the ship and then I got
(12:17):
permission.
I hula hooped at thesouthernmost post office in the
world, at Des Moines Point, andthe woman at the post office
told me it was the weirdestquestion anyone had ever asked
her if someone could hula hoopat the post and I have pictures
of me.
I have the next videos that I'mgoing to put up.
They're not quite up yet, butit is of me.
(12:38):
I have a bunch of hula hoopingup like hula hooping in front of
the helicopter, but I saw thatone.
I hula hooped on the fast icesouth of the Antarctic Circle.
The trip I went on.
So they claim about 800,000people in human history have
been to Antarctica Wow.
And they believe just under100,000 have been south of the
(13:01):
Antarctic Circle Wow.
And so when we were south ofthe Antarctic Circle, we were
able to come alongside the fastice and they took out their
drills and were checking like,was it safe?
And so I took the hula hoopwith me and I was able.
I couldn't take off my jacketor my life jacket because of the
conditions, but I was able tohoop on my arm and so I applied.
(13:25):
I'll have to keep you posted,but I applied for Guinness Book
World Record.
Angela Tuell (13:31):
Oh nice, yes, Do keep us posted, and we will make
sure to link to these videos inour show notes too, for anyone
listening.
I do have to ask, and thismight go along with that.
We'll see.
But what has been the scariestbrave thing you've done?
Lisa Niver (13:46):
Oh, that's such a good question, so it's funny.
I normally talk about thescariest one from the 50 that
are in the book.
I had a lot of eye issuesgrowing up.
We believed that I was clumsyand not athletic.
It turns out there wassomething wrong with my eyes.
So I had a lot of childhoodaccidents, and part of this book
(14:09):
was, you know, reclaimingmyself.
I did these 50 things after mydivorce to reinvent myself, and
so one of the worst accidents Ihad was biking, and so the
scariest thing I did was I wentmountain biking in Lake Tahoe on
North Star.
Angela Tuell (14:25):
Okay.
Lisa Niver (14:26):
That was super scary and I really was channeling how
brave I was when I was on theship in Antarctica, because I
agreed to go stand up paddleboarding in Antarctica.
Wow, and the whole time I wasso nervous I was going to fall
in, yeah, and once I did fall in, of course I had on a dry suit,
(14:48):
but once I did fall in, ofcourse I had on a dry suit.
But once I did fall in I had amuch better time because I
wasn't so worried.
Angela Tuell (14:54):
Yes, I could see that Definitely you mentioned
divorce.
Was that before you started,before you went fully into
travel writing?
Or was that in the midst of itall?
Lisa Niver (15:06):
It was in the midst of it all because when I took
the year in Asia, I wastraveling with the man who I got
engaged to the end of thatfirst year and then we went, we
got married and then when I wastraveling again in Asia, that
was with him and we had startedthe website together.
I say we started together.
He came up with the name and Idid everything else.
Angela Tuell (15:26):
I don't really think that counts as an even
partnership no, no, not at all.
Lisa Niver (15:33):
So I had built a lot of the website and starting to
work as a journalist, kind of onand off while I was traveling,
and married and then when I camehome from Thailand by myself
and got divorced, that was whenI really went all in like
networking with all the PR teamsand you know, going more
(15:54):
conferences and taking it moreas an actual job.
Angela Tuell (15:58):
Yes, okay, makes sense.
I'm sure we can read much moreabout it in the book as well.
How often do you travel?
Now I travel every month.
Okay.
Lisa Niver (16:08):
And sometimes twice a month, it depends what's going
on.
The Antarctica trip with the,being in Argentina before and
after, I was gone almost threeweeks.
So that was one trip.
And recently I was inWashington DC filming with the
Jet Set TV.
I do segments with them you andI have talked about.
I did the Ireland TV specialthat was on the jet set.
Angela Tuell (16:29):
Yes, that's great.
We'll link to that also.
Is there anywhere that youhaven't been?
That's on your list.
Lisa Niver (16:37):
You know it's funny, people are surprised that
there's still so many things onmy list.
Okay, I would like to go toboth Bhutan and Tibet.
In Asia, I have not been tothose.
That's top of my list.
And although I've been almosteverywhere in South America, I
haven't been to Brazil, which isthe biggest country, right.
So Brazil.
(16:58):
When I was working at sea, theship companies I worked with
didn't go there yet.
And in Africa, I've been onsafari and actually hula hooped
with the Maasai warriors, butthere's 53 nations in Africa and
I've been to four, so there's alot of Africa.
Angela Tuell (17:18):
Yes, yes, a lot there.
Well, we'll keep watching andsee some of those adventures,
right?
I hope so.
Lisa Niver (17:25):
I think there's so much.
I just love to learn aboutdifferent people and see how
they live, and I really want togo see the silverback gorillas.
Angela Tuell (17:36):
That would be amazing.
What are you most proud ofprofessionally so far in your
career?
Lisa Niver (17:43):
One of the things I'm the most proud of is my book
because, in fairness, it was sohard for me to write, to be so
honest about how terrible thesituation was in my marriage and
the abuse and feeling like afailure and starting over and
feeling alone and feeling aloneand, yeah, that was, it was
(18:12):
awful to live through, and thenwriting it a lot of times felt
like reliving it in a terribleway.
I did write the first part, thefirst chapter, in my
therapist's office.
Angela Tuell (18:21):
Wow.
Lisa Niver (18:22):
Yeah, we were.
We kept talking about it andshe's like you know, do you
think it would help you if youjust we did some here and I was
like, how would we do that?
And so we kind of we did a fewdifferent versions, tried to
figure it out.
So I had a lot of support andif I actually was at a book
event last night and the womanasked me about my book when we
(18:43):
went to dinner and I said, youknow, if I had just written the
book and never published it, itstill was worth it and so
cathartic.
But it has.
You know, the book came outSeptember 2023 and I'm still
doing events almost every monthfor the book.
People keep inviting me, whichis so I feel very grateful, and
the book just won its 10th award.
Angela Tuell (19:05):
Wow, congratulations, that is
fantastic, thank you.
I know that you also havepublished it hasn't just been
the book more than 2000 articlesin more than three dozen
magazines and journals,including I'll just name a few
National Geographic, wired, teenVogue, HuffPost, popsugar, arp,
(19:28):
hemispheres Today.
I could keep going.
Lisa Niver (19:31):
Yes.
Angela Tuell (19:32):
What is your current focus when it comes to
articles?
Lisa Niver (19:36):
So lately I've been writing a lot for both Readers
Digest and Bookingcom Okay, andone of the oh.
And also I have a story, aMarch story in print in Pasadena
Magazine about Ireland, andthen in May for Pasadena
Magazine I have a story aboutAntarctica and also I did a
(19:57):
walking safari with the polarbears.
What it was amazing.
Wow, that's actually that's mysecond Guinness book attempt.
Is that I'm going?
My attempt is that I did apolar plunge in the Arctic and
the Antarctic within six months.
I did both.
Wow, yeah, it's been anexciting, crazy, busy time.
(20:23):
Yes, yes, I have written for alot of different places and one
of my focuses is, you know, tobe able to share the
destinations that I'm invited toas widely as possible, so
putting them on the Jet Set TVor like Antarctica.
I also got to go here in LA onSpectrum News1 and talk about
that, so trying to get broadcastand print.
(20:45):
And then, like you said, I havemy site.
We Say Go Travel.
I also write for MSN.
My articles go to Google News,so there's a lot of syndication.
Angela Tuell (20:59):
So a lot of our audience are PR professionals,
publicists, some otherjournalists.
Do you have any stories aboutworking with PR professionals
that are most memorable, eitherin a positive or negative way?
Lisa Niver (21:06):
that could help us learn, I think the relationships
I've built with PR teams thathave been the best have been the
ones where it's not justtransactional about you know,
can you do something with thispress release or last minute?
So I have a few people thatI've worked with literally since
(21:30):
2014 when I came back from Asia, when I first was getting
divorced.
At the time I was writing a lotfor USA Today in the 10 best
section and I met a few peoplein real life.
I think that makes a differenceto know the people, especially
if they're local, and we used toget together and go out for a
(21:51):
meal and just talk.
And over the years, with thisone particular person, I
remember once he called me andat the time he was working with
Doubletree and they had thiscookbook because they have the
cookies and they made thiscookbook because they have the
cookies and they made thiscookbook and every country or
every hotel put like a differentversion of recipe.
(22:12):
And he called me.
He's like no one will writeabout this.
I said that's because it's nota story.
Is there anything you could doto help me?
And at the time I had, I wrote,for she Knows it was a
different.
You know they've all gonethrough different.
I wrote for Thrive.
I wrote for Thrive, I wrote forshe Knows.
I wrote for Huffington Post,like they've all evolved all
their community situations andopen platforms and you know
(22:34):
pitching and whatever.
But anyway, at the time I hadshe Knows and I was like, listen
, I have an idea, I can do itfor you for she Knows, but
here's what I want.
He's like I will do anythingfor you.
So we've had that over theyears where I did you know he
could lean on me and I couldfigure something out for him and
vice versa.
So you know, I, when he did aglobal fam for not just
(22:58):
Doubletree but for Hilton, Iwent.
You know we did two continentsand three cities and it was a
crazy trip but it was so fun andhe was like you're the top of
my list because you help me.
And I think that's what peoplesometimes forget is we're all
here together trying to be kindand nice and answer emails and
(23:21):
not just be snappy.
Yes, and it really is all aboutrelationships.
Like you said, that word is isin public relations, but that is
really what helps us all do ourjob best.
(23:43):
There's so much.
You know, my book came out anda couple of weeks later.
The massacre happened October7th in Israel and it's been a
very hard time to be a Jewishjournalist and I so appreciate
when people say you know like,how are you doing Like?
Or you know everyone has a lotof opinions about the United
States politics right now, andwith good reason, and so you
(24:05):
know there's people are impactedby that, or you know knowing if
someone's situation with theirhome life.
Angela Tuell (24:14):
I think that's important to treat people like
actual people Absolutely.
And you know, when we look atsometimes a travel journalist or
talking with you, you know itseems like, oh, you've got this
dream life, but we know it's somuch work as well.
Do you do all of your ownfilming?
I mean, obviously, writing, andyou know that sort of thing but
do you do everything yourself?
And what are the kind of thegive and take that you give up
(24:36):
for having such a you know,quote unquote dream life?
Lisa Niver (24:39):
So I basically as many ways as you could imagine
that it would work is how I doit.
Like, for example, inAntarctica I filmed almost
everything myself, except when Ineeded help and I could manage
it.
Like someone else filmed mehula hooping on the ice or hula
(25:00):
hooping across the circle ondeck.
But I've been doing all theediting for that For the Ireland
TV segment.
That was a full show that wefilmed in Ireland.
So I had a crew with me.
I had three people with me,camera, sound and I was all the
logistics, but that was a teamand then a separate person did
(25:24):
all the edits.
So that was a big team forrelative to being by myself.
But yeah, it's a lot to manageall the emails and the edits and
the schedule and you knowrunning, like when does stuff go
on the podcast and and, as youknow, keeping up with pitching,
like following up with theeditor for the what feels like
(25:45):
the 6,000th time, like okay,remember, you said you liked my
idea, but in a kind of nice way.
And as far as the give and take, you know it can be hard to be
away and miss things and tryingto figure out can you make it to
that event for your friend, ordo you have to say no to the
trip, or it's a.
(26:06):
It's definitely some juggling,but everyone that works has to
juggle.
How many days can they be off?
You not necessarily get toevery bat mitzvah or every
family holiday because travelinghas gotten very expensive.
Flights have gone up, a lot,hotels have gone up.
It's it's um, I think a lot ofpeople struggle with that and
(26:29):
I'm you know from both sides forPR and the journalist side to
send people.
It's very expensive.
Angela Tuell (26:34):
It is.
It's very hard and I know I'vetalked about this with others is
we completely understand andknow that freelance journalists
cannot guarantee coverage.
There's another side to it withthe clients that are like but
we're investing so much moneyand you know how do we invest
this and then not sure if we get.
But you know it's our jobobviously to choose the
(26:56):
journalists who will, you know,who write often and we know will
do their best pitching stories.
But it's definitely a balancethere.
Lisa Niver (27:05):
I think that is one of the hardest.
Hardest things is that,messiness?
And so for myself, I am verycautious about what I agree to
take, because I don't want to bein the position where I can't
deliver, and so one of thethings that I have because I
built, we said, go travel and itsyndicates.
(27:25):
I also write for the JewishJournal as my 14th year.
So, I can confirm coverage foryou know my site, msn, the
Jewish Journal, I've forAntarctica.
I have four episodes that Ithat I recorded in Antarctica
they'll be on my podcast, and inIreland we recorded two
(27:46):
episodes that are already liveon my podcast.
So I have you know, with the TVsegments, if I'm doing, if I
can confirm that, plus thepodcast, plus the writing, and
then, like for Antarctica, Ihave a bunch of pitches out.
I already confirmed the storyfor print for Pasadena Magazine,
but I have a few other pitchesout.
So you're right, I think thatyou have to have it's like a
(28:06):
full court press of like so manythings.
And so for myself, I know youmentioned the videos, so I
posted my 51st video, my 51streel for Antarctica.
That's a lot of coverage andthey are my best performing
videos ever.
They're doing great on TikTok.
They're amazing.
(28:27):
Amazing interaction on Facebookand really good on YouTube.
My YouTube's over two and aquarter million views now.
So there's a lot happening.
Angela Tuell (28:36):
Yes, yes, it's like how do you keep track of it
all?
We also met.
You mentioned the podcast thatwe have to talk about before we
go.
Make your Own Map is a littleover two years old.
Right, and tell us more.
Lisa Niver (28:48):
Yes.
So I started Make your Own Mapwhen I turned in my book.
I turned in my book in Decemberand I started Make your Own Map
and I just wanted to be able totry something different.
And Spotify was one of thefirst, I believe, with a focus
on video podcasting.
Okay, and so I wrote to acouple of my friends in the
(29:24):
media side and I was like Idon't really understand what is
this video podcast?
How is it different from amovie?
It seems like a movie and I'mgood at that.
I know how to make a video.
And my one friend was like Idon't see any difference.
I'm like so I could just put upthe video, I could interview
someone on zoom and do the video, and that's a podcast now.
(29:46):
And she said I think so.
That's basically how it gotstarted, cause I figured, well,
if it's not right, I'll have topivot.
But I've started cause Spotifybought the one that it was I
can't remember the exact name,but I worked through a different
company that was specific withSpotify for video.
(30:07):
Now it's called Spotify forpodcasting or something like
that.
And then YouTube made its ownspecial thing about YouTube for
podcasting and because I'd beenon YouTube already so long I was
automatically had the accessfor the YouTube podcast because
a few people messaged me like,oh, I want to have my podcast on
(30:28):
YouTube, and I was like youjust click on it and like no, no
, I cannot click on it.
I was like I'm sorry, I've hadYouTube a really long time and I
have a lot of everything onYouTube.
I have subscribers, I haveviews, so I there was a thing
where you had to have like you'dearn in.
You had to have like a certainamount of minutes to be able at
the time.
(30:49):
It may be very different now,but, um, you know, I just always
I'm willing to try almostanything.
Someone was asking me lastnight when we were out to dinner
after the book event about TikTOK like you're on Tik TOK, I'm
like I had to.
My agent had this workshopabout social media and this they
(31:10):
gave a challenge to to get onTik TOK and and every author had
an excuse I'm too old, I'm toougly, I don't sound good.
Anyway, the challenge was tomake five TikTok reels a day for
30 days.
Everybody refused to do it Alot, oh my God, it's huge.
So I agreed to do one day.
I said I'll do one day.
That's how I do everythingSmall steps.
(31:32):
I'll do one day, I'll make five.
I was in Vegas for a scubaconvention.
I was like I'll do one day andI met a couple people during the
day that were good at TikTokand they gave me tips after I'd
done the workshop.
And that night at dinner one ofthe ladies knew stuff about
Instagram bonuses.
Everybody helped me and then Ihad like a thousand views the
first day.
(31:52):
So I was like, okay, I'll dothe second day.
Anyway, never gave up.
I just kept doing it.
Only one day, only one morevideo.
At the end of 30 days I agreedto do another 30 days and at the
end of 90 days, that was when Isigned the contract with my
publisher.
Wow, yes, it's very hard to keepgoing sometimes, but I always
(32:15):
recommend people start verysmall If you can start for free.
People always ask me you know,should I pay for a logo for my
website?
Should I, you know, buy hostingfor my podcast?
Should I hire someone?
I'm like you can, if you havemoney to burn, you do whatever
you want.
But I always recommend you knowwell, just try it.
Maybe maybe it's not for you,maybe you don't want to post
(32:37):
every week, maybe you only wantto post once a month, maybe
you're not a podcaster, you're aTikToker.
Cause over the years, right I,the website started in 2010.
It's been a long journey for meOver the years.
I mean, I remember when was noTwitter?
And then, all of a sudden,people were like, oh, you have
to join this thing.
It's called Twitter.
I'm like what is that?
So over the years, I've addedeach thing.
(33:00):
But you know, there's one ofthose cartoons you sometimes see
and it says how do you eat anelephant?
One bite at a time.
Angela Tuell (33:11):
Yes, yes, oh, that's such great advice.
So what is the best way for ourlisteners to connect with you
online?
I know there are so many ways.
Lisa Niver (33:19):
We'll include all of those links.
I know I think we justoverwhelmed everyone, but you
can find me on pretty much anysocial media platform with my
name, lisa Niver, and I have awebsite that's lisanivercom.
I have wesaidgotravelcom, andboth of those websites have
(33:40):
access to my book, my podcast,oh yeah, and I have a class.
Angela Tuell (33:45):
Oh, okay, we will link to that also.
Lisa Niver (33:47):
Yeah, actually, I'll give you a code and people can
have a free, complimentaryaccess.
It's Travel Writer 101.
It's on a platform called Udemyand people always ask me how
could they get started as atravel writer?
And so many people ask me.
I was like you know what?
I'm just going to make thisclass Love it and I call it.
(34:07):
It's like an appetizer.
It's just a little taster ofthe different areas you have to
do if you want to be a travelwriter, and I link in my course
to people that have longercourses about specific things,
like the Nina from travel andleisure has an amazing class,
but I don't necessarily know ifyou've never written for
(34:29):
anywhere that you want a hugeclass like my class is just a
taster that's great.
Angela Tuell (34:34):
Thank you so much, lisa.
I really appreciate your time.
Thank you, angela.
This has been so much fun.
That's all for this episode ofMedia in Minutes, a podcast by
Communications Redefined.
Take a moment to rate, reviewand subscribe to our show.
We'd love to hear what youthink you can find more at
communicationsredefinedcom slashpodcast.
(34:55):
I'm your host, Angela Tuell.
Talk to you next time.
Welcome to Media in Minutes.
This is your host, Angela Tuell.
This podcast features in-depthinterviews with those who report
on the world around us.
They share everything fromtheir favorite stories to what
happened behind the lens andgive us a glimpse into their
world From our studio here atCommunications Redefined.
This is Media in Minutes.
On today's episode, we aretalking with award-winning
(00:32):
travel journalist, tv host andauthor, lisa Niver.
Lisa is an adventurer who hasexplored all seven continents
and over 100 countries.
She is also the award-winningauthor of Bravish One Breakup
Six Continents and FeelingFearless After 50.
With a passion for pushingboundaries, she has journeyed
(00:52):
through the desert in Mongolia,scuba dived with bull sharks in
Mexico, snorkeled with whalesharks in the Philippines and
swam with the humpback whales inTonga.
Her adventures include polarbear walking safaris in Canada,
twice taking a polar plunge inAntarctica and experiencing
thrilling safari encounters withAfrica's Big Five.
(01:15):
Lisa is also a sought-afterinternational speaker and the
host of the podcast Make yourOwn Map Hi, Lisa.
Lisa Niver (01:23):
Hi Angela, I'm so excited to be here with you.
Angela Tuell (01:26):
Me too, I am very much looking forward to talking
with you today.
In researching for this episode, I determined I must start with
your fairly recent book andmemoir Brave-ish, which I love.
One Breakup, six Continents andFeeling Fear, fearless after 50
.
Please tell us more about yourstory and how you became a
(01:48):
travel journalist.
Lisa Niver (01:50):
Well, thank you so much.
I'm so excited to be here withyou and, yes, I have a memoir
and Bravish.
It's kind of funny about thatbook is a lot about my travel
journalist journey.
But I got started.
It's so funny it's like hard toknow where to go back to.
But I honestly, I was teachingand I left on an adventure and
(02:14):
my students were really sad thatI was leaving and I promised to
send back a newsletter andwhile I was traveling for a year
, mostly in Asia, it was reallythe beginning of the blog
revolution and so when I cameback from that trip, I started.
We Said Go Travel, which is mytravel site.
I started that in 2010.
And building that site was thebeginning of becoming an actual,
(02:37):
real travel journalist.
Angela Tuell (02:39):
So you were a teacher.
Was that your first career?
Lisa Niver (02:42):
No, I tell people my career is like remember the
game shoots and ladders.
Yes, yes, that's my career.
So I went.
I grew up in California, I wentto Penn, I went to med school
in California.
I wasn't that happy.
I took a year out.
I tried to think about whatmade me happy and I ended up
(03:04):
starting to teach and while Iwas in my sort of gap year after
college you know now it's muchmore popular to take a gap year
at the time I had studied anIsrael semester abroad and
anyway, I guess we can call itmy gap year I learned to scuba
dive and I fell in love withscuba diving and I was teaching.
(03:24):
I also worked for a littlewhile at Planned Parenthood
because I was like, am I goingback into medicine?
Am I doing education?
You know, where am I in science?
Right?
So when I was teaching, Ireally couldn't afford these
exotic, amazing scuba trips thateveryone else was going on, so
I ended up.
a friend of my sister's hadworked for Club Med and, through
(03:47):
a series of crazy events, whichis all in my book, I ended up
working for Club Med skiing.
Angela Tuell (03:54):
Okay.
Lisa Niver (03:55):
Which is confusing, because I told you I wanted to
go scuba diving, but that's howit got started.
Angela Tuell (03:59):
Right, there's quite a difference between cold
weather sports and warm weathersports, although it doesn't have
to be warm to scuba dive, right, if you have the right gear.
No, it doesn't.
Lisa Niver (04:08):
When I was at one point after Club Med.
I worked for seven years oncruise ships and at one point my
dive buddy and I from theCaribbean we actually went scuba
diving in Juneau in Alaska indry suits.
Angela Tuell (04:19):
Wow, okay.
So yes, that is a thing.
Lisa Niver (04:23):
Dry suits.
Cold is a thing, but it's beensort of a.
You know, when you look when Iwas working on the memoir and
going back and forth through mywhole career, you can see that
there were a lot of throughlines.
But it's hard when you're inyour 20s or trying to figure out
.
You know, like during COVID orafter 9-11, which were all
things that shifted my careeragain you don't have a lot of
(04:46):
perspective.
Sometimes, when you're in themiddle of the storm, I'm like am
I making good choices?
Should I keep going?
Do I start over?
Like a lot of times I went backand taught.
I'm like I'll just go teachagain and figure out what am I
going to do next?
Angela Tuell (04:59):
Yes, so how did you make it your career then?
The travel writing?
At what point did that happenand how'd you do it?
Lisa Niver (05:07):
I was teaching and traveling, and teaching and
traveling.
I had started the website and Iwent on another long trip.
So one of the things thathelped make it my career was
having very low expenses andtraveling in Asia on low
expenses.
I could run the website andhone my craft.
I did not go to journalismschool but I started going to
(05:27):
different workshops and there'sso many conferences.
I have a whole playlist on myYouTube channel.
That's just all the differentconference videos going to
travel classics, tbex, imm.
I don't think there's aconference I've heard of that.
I haven't been to, although Iam going to a new conference in
(05:49):
April.
I'm going for the first time toC-Trade, which is the cruise
line industry, so I'll be there.
I'm going to be in Miami forC-Trade and then I'm going on
the brand new MSC ship.
I'd say that what made mycareer happen is really a lot of
networking and persistence.
Angela Tuell (06:08):
Yeah, you have to be very self-motivated in that
type of career.
Lisa Niver (06:13):
Yeah, people ask me that, like how do you get so
many videos done, or how do youget so many articles, and I tell
them it's because I used to bea teacher and I basically just
give myself homework.
Angela Tuell (06:24):
And deadlines right.
Lisa Niver (06:25):
And deadlines.
Yes, ma'am.
Angela Tuell (06:28):
So you mentioned spending three years traveling
across Asia.
What was the most surprisingthing?
You learned.
That's a good question.
Lisa Niver (06:36):
The most surprising thing I learned is that you
really don't need a lot of stuff, need a lot of stuff, and that
slowing down can make travel somuch better.
I noticed a lot of people, likeyou know, sometimes people be
on a short trip and they'll askme you know, I want to go to
(06:56):
these four countries in Europeon my seven day trip.
I'm like, well, you can, butyou're going to come home so
tired and you'll definitely geta flavor, I think on a cruise,
you know, going to a countryevery day is different because
you only unpack once.
I don't really like theunpacking or war, you know,
wondering like, well, will weget in in time?
Was the which room key is it?
(07:18):
Do we have the right address?
So, um, I like to slow down alittle bit.
And one trip I went on inMongolia.
We went on this 11 day van tripto the Gobi Desert and they
told me that we were going tothe vast expanse of nothingness
and I said, how will I know whenI get there?
And they're like Lisa, you'llknow and you knew, and you knew.
(07:49):
Yeah, I think being in Asia feltjust so miraculously different.
I speak decent Spanish and Icould be mostly understood in
French and Italian being in Asia.
I told someone, or I told FreyChan Hao I was in China.
I said Frey Chan Hao, frey ChanHao.
And the man looked at mytraveling companion and said I
don't speak English.
And he looked at her and saidshe's not speaking English.
(08:10):
So you know, sometimes it'svery hard to be understood Like
you're like okay, we're in areally different place.
Also, when I was traveling inChina, we literally walked up to
the bus station, kind of in themiddle of nowhere.
The Lonely Planet had all ofthe information in the local
dialect characters and I heldopen the book and some random
(08:35):
person looked at the book and Ipointed, and they pointed and I
put money in my hand and theytook money and they put me on
the bus.
Angela Tuell (08:43):
And you were hoping you were on the right bus
right.
Not only was were hoping youwere on the right bus right.
Lisa Niver (08:46):
Not only was I hoping I was on the right bus, I
was hoping someone would throwme off the bus at the right stop
, Right and you know, and theycould have just taken all my
money and not put me on the bus.
But I felt like we reallytrusted in the town.
And we went to this little townand the man was making noodles
by hand and I took a video ofhim making the noodles and you
(09:09):
can imagine my surprise when hetook a video of me eating the
noodles.
And then he showed me a photo ofessentially the last Western
tourist who'd come into hisstore and eat.
It was a teeny little town, itwas a thousand years old.
It was amazing.
It was in the Lonely Planet.
(09:30):
We felt like we were on thebackpacker trail sort of.
But it's very different and youjust have to really trust that
y'all are going to get to thenext place literally.
Angela Tuell (09:44):
Right, you have so many incredible travels and
you've been to over 100countries.
Are there any that you wouldsay top the others?
I won't ask for a very favoriteor anything, but ones that
really stick out Actually rightnow.
Lisa Niver (09:58):
you could ask me that because I just went in
January to Antarctica, just wentin January to Antarctica and so
that was my final continent andthe subtitle of my book says
six continents.
So I was really hoping duringmy book tour that I'd get to my
final continent, because it feltlike such a part of the whole
(10:19):
book process you know, writingthe book and thinking about the
book and then being like whatare what?
You know, what's your goalafter the book.
And Antarctica to me was such ahonestly a blessing of just
believing that you could makesomething happen, like to be
invited to go there and writestories.
And I went with QuarkExpeditions and it was literally
(10:45):
every night.
It's an expedition ship, so alot of the things they're not
sure, like this is our plan butwe'll see how it goes.
So every night they have recapand briefing and they talk about
the day and they said you know,we always hope when we're here
in this part of Antarctica thatwe're going to see all three
species of penguins that youmight see here.
And you know, today we saw thethird one, the Adelie penguin.
(11:12):
You can only see them inAntarctica.
Sometimes people come here andbecause of the weather or
because of the ice, or becauseof X number of reasons, we don't
see them.
And basically every night waslike that.
They're like well, we reallyhope we might be able to go
through the Le Maire channel,but we have to wait till we see
it with our own eyes and look atthe ice and see how the flow is
.
And one morning we weregenerally up, you know, seven,
(11:33):
seven, 30.
And there's so much to do witha Zodiac cruise cruising and the
landing, and my ship had twohelicopters, which was amazing.
So one morning the the speakergoes off, it was 620.
I'm like good morning, goodmorning, get out of your beds,
we can see orcas.
Oh, wow, and just it felt veryto me, you know, magical.
(11:57):
Like you know, some people wantall their lives to take their
kids to Disneyland.
I want all my life to go seethe ice in Antarctica and I got
to do funny things.
So I travel with a hula hoopand so I asked for permission
and I hula hooped on the bridgeof the ship and then I got
(12:17):
permission.
I hula hooped at thesouthernmost post office in the
world, at Des Moines Point, andthe woman at the post office
told me it was the weirdestquestion anyone had ever asked
her if someone could hula hoopat the post and I have pictures
of me.
I have the next videos that I'mgoing to put up.
They're not quite up yet, butit is of me.
(12:38):
I have a bunch of hula hoopingup like hula hooping in front of
the helicopter, but I saw thatone.
I hula hooped on the fast icesouth of the Antarctic Circle.
The trip I went on.
So they claim about 800,000people in human history have
been to Antarctica Wow.
And they believe just under100,000 have been south of the
(13:01):
Antarctic Circle Wow.
And so when we were south ofthe Antarctic Circle, we were
able to come alongside the fastice and they took out their
drills and were checking like,was it safe?
And so I took the hula hoopwith me and I was able.
I couldn't take off my jacketor my life jacket because of the
conditions, but I was able tohoop on my arm and so I applied.
(13:25):
I'll have to keep you posted,but I applied for Guinness Book
World Record.
Angela Tuell (13:31):
Oh nice, yes, Do keep us posted, and we will make
sure to link to these videos inour show notes too, for anyone
listening.
I do have to ask, and thismight go along with that.
We'll see.
But what has been the scariestbrave thing you've done?
Lisa Niver (13:46):
Oh, that's such a good question, so it's funny.
I normally talk about thescariest one from the 50 that
are in the book.
I had a lot of eye issuesgrowing up.
We believed that I was clumsyand not athletic.
It turns out there wassomething wrong with my eyes.
So I had a lot of childhoodaccidents, and part of this book
(14:09):
was, you know, reclaimingmyself.
I did these 50 things after mydivorce to reinvent myself, and
so one of the worst accidents Ihad was biking, and so the
scariest thing I did was I wentmountain biking in Lake Tahoe on
North Star.
Angela Tuell (14:25):
Okay.
Lisa Niver (14:26):
That was super scary and I really was channeling how
brave I was when I was on theship in Antarctica, because I
agreed to go stand up paddleboarding in Antarctica.
Wow, and the whole time I wasso nervous I was going to fall
in, yeah, and once I did fall in, of course I had on a dry suit,
(14:48):
but once I did fall in, ofcourse I had on a dry suit.
But once I did fall in I had amuch better time because I
wasn't so worried.
Angela Tuell (14:54):
Yes, I could see that Definitely you mentioned
divorce.
Was that before you started,before you went fully into
travel writing?
Or was that in the midst of itall?
Lisa Niver (15:06):
It was in the midst of it all because when I took
the year in Asia, I wastraveling with the man who I got
engaged to the end of thatfirst year and then we went, we
got married and then when I wastraveling again in Asia, that
was with him and we had startedthe website together.
I say we started together.
He came up with the name and Idid everything else.
Angela Tuell (15:26):
I don't really think that counts as an even
partnership no, no, not at all.
Lisa Niver (15:33):
So I had built a lot of the website and starting to
work as a journalist, kind of onand off while I was traveling,
and married and then when I camehome from Thailand by myself
and got divorced, that was whenI really went all in like
networking with all the PR teamsand you know, going more
(15:54):
conferences and taking it moreas an actual job.
Angela Tuell (15:58):
Yes, okay, makes sense.
I'm sure we can read much moreabout it in the book as well.
How often do you travel?
Now I travel every month.
Okay.
Lisa Niver (16:08):
And sometimes twice a month, it depends what's going
on.
The Antarctica trip with the,being in Argentina before and
after, I was gone almost threeweeks.
So that was one trip.
And recently I was inWashington DC filming with the
Jet Set TV.
I do segments with them you andI have talked about.
I did the Ireland TV specialthat was on the jet set.
Angela Tuell (16:29):
Yes, that's great.
We'll link to that also.
Is there anywhere that youhaven't been?
That's on your list.
Lisa Niver (16:37):
You know it's funny, people are surprised that
there's still so many things onmy list.
Okay, I would like to go toboth Bhutan and Tibet.
In Asia, I have not been tothose.
That's top of my list.
And although I've been almosteverywhere in South America, I
haven't been to Brazil, which isthe biggest country, right.
So Brazil.
(16:58):
When I was working at sea, theship companies I worked with
didn't go there yet.
And in Africa, I've been onsafari and actually hula hooped
with the Maasai warriors, butthere's 53 nations in Africa and
I've been to four, so there's alot of Africa.
Angela Tuell (17:18):
Yes, yes, a lot there.
Well, we'll keep watching andsee some of those adventures,
right?
I hope so.
Lisa Niver (17:25):
I think there's so much.
I just love to learn aboutdifferent people and see how
they live, and I really want togo see the silverback gorillas.
Angela Tuell (17:36):
That would be amazing.
What are you most proud ofprofessionally so far in your
career?
Lisa Niver (17:43):
One of the things I'm the most proud of is my book
because, in fairness, it was sohard for me to write, to be so
honest about how terrible thesituation was in my marriage and
the abuse and feeling like afailure and starting over and
feeling alone and feeling aloneand, yeah, that was, it was
(18:12):
awful to live through, and thenwriting it a lot of times felt
like reliving it in a terribleway.
I did write the first part, thefirst chapter, in my
therapist's office.
Angela Tuell (18:21):
Wow.
Lisa Niver (18:22):
Yeah, we were.
We kept talking about it andshe's like you know, do you
think it would help you if youjust we did some here and I was
like, how would we do that?
And so we kind of we did a fewdifferent versions, tried to
figure it out.
So I had a lot of support andif I actually was at a book
event last night and the womanasked me about my book when we
(18:43):
went to dinner and I said, youknow, if I had just written the
book and never published it, itstill was worth it and so
cathartic.
But it has.
You know, the book came outSeptember 2023 and I'm still
doing events almost every monthfor the book.
People keep inviting me, whichis so I feel very grateful, and
the book just won its 10th award.
Angela Tuell (19:05):
Wow, congratulations, that is
fantastic, thank you.
I know that you also havepublished it hasn't just been
the book more than 2000 articlesin more than three dozen
magazines and journals,including I'll just name a few
National Geographic, wired, teenVogue, HuffPost, popsugar, arp,
(19:28):
hemispheres Today.
I could keep going.
Lisa Niver (19:31):
Yes.
Angela Tuell (19:32):
What is your current focus when it comes to
articles?
Lisa Niver (19:36):
So lately I've been writing a lot for both Readers
Digest and Bookingcom Okay, andone of the oh.
And also I have a story, aMarch story in print in Pasadena
Magazine about Ireland, andthen in May for Pasadena
Magazine I have a story aboutAntarctica and also I did a
(19:57):
walking safari with the polarbears.
What it was amazing.
Wow, that's actually that's mysecond Guinness book attempt.
Is that I'm going?
My attempt is that I did apolar plunge in the Arctic and
the Antarctic within six months.
I did both.
Wow, yeah, it's been anexciting, crazy, busy time.
(20:23):
Yes, yes, I have written for alot of different places and one
of my focuses is, you know, tobe able to share the
destinations that I'm invited toas widely as possible, so
putting them on the Jet Set TVor like Antarctica.
I also got to go here in LA onSpectrum News1 and talk about
that, so trying to get broadcastand print.
(20:45):
And then, like you said, I havemy site.
We Say Go Travel.
I also write for MSN.
My articles go to Google News,so there's a lot of syndication.
Angela Tuell (20:59):
So a lot of our audience are PR professionals,
publicists, some otherjournalists.
Do you have any stories aboutworking with PR professionals
that are most memorable, eitherin a positive or negative way?
Lisa Niver (21:06):
that could help us learn, I think the relationships
I've built with PR teams thathave been the best have been the
ones where it's not justtransactional about you know,
can you do something with thispress release or last minute?
So I have a few people thatI've worked with literally since
(21:30):
2014 when I came back from Asia, when I first was getting
divorced.
At the time I was writing a lotfor USA Today in the 10 best
section and I met a few peoplein real life.
I think that makes a differenceto know the people, especially
if they're local, and we used toget together and go out for a
(21:51):
meal and just talk.
And over the years, with thisone particular person, I
remember once he called me andat the time he was working with
Doubletree and they had thiscookbook because they have the
cookies and they made thiscookbook because they have the
cookies and they made thiscookbook and every country or
every hotel put like a differentversion of recipe.
(22:12):
And he called me.
He's like no one will writeabout this.
I said that's because it's nota story.
Is there anything you could doto help me?
And at the time I had, I wrote,for she Knows it was a
different.
You know they've all gonethrough different.
I wrote for Thrive.
I wrote for Thrive, I wrote forshe Knows.
I wrote for Huffington Post,like they've all evolved all
their community situations andopen platforms and you know
(22:34):
pitching and whatever.
But anyway, at the time I hadshe Knows and I was like, listen
, I have an idea, I can do itfor you for she Knows, but
here's what I want.
He's like I will do anythingfor you.
So we've had that over theyears where I did you know he
could lean on me and I couldfigure something out for him and
vice versa.
So you know, I, when he did aglobal fam for not just
(22:58):
Doubletree but for Hilton, Iwent.
You know we did two continentsand three cities and it was a
crazy trip but it was so fun andhe was like you're the top of
my list because you help me.
And I think that's what peoplesometimes forget is we're all
here together trying to be kindand nice and answer emails and
(23:21):
not just be snappy.
Yes, and it really is all aboutrelationships.
Like you said, that word is isin public relations, but that is
really what helps us all do ourjob best.
(23:43):
There's so much.
You know, my book came out anda couple of weeks later.
The massacre happened October7th in Israel and it's been a
very hard time to be a Jewishjournalist and I so appreciate
when people say you know like,how are you doing Like?
Or you know everyone has a lotof opinions about the United
States politics right now, andwith good reason, and so you
(24:05):
know there's people are impactedby that, or you know knowing if
someone's situation with theirhome life.
Angela Tuell (24:14):
I think that's important to treat people like
actual people Absolutely.
And you know, when we look atsometimes a travel journalist or
talking with you, you know itseems like, oh, you've got this
dream life, but we know it's somuch work as well.
Do you do all of your ownfilming?
I mean, obviously, writing, andyou know that sort of thing but
do you do everything yourself?
And what are the kind of thegive and take that you give up
(24:36):
for having such a you know,quote unquote dream life?
Lisa Niver (24:39):
So I basically as many ways as you could imagine
that it would work is how I doit.
Like, for example, inAntarctica I filmed almost
everything myself, except when Ineeded help and I could manage
it.
Like someone else filmed mehula hooping on the ice or hula
(25:00):
hooping across the circle ondeck.
But I've been doing all theediting for that For the Ireland
TV segment.
That was a full show that wefilmed in Ireland.
So I had a crew with me.
I had three people with me,camera, sound and I was all the
logistics, but that was a teamand then a separate person did
(25:24):
all the edits.
So that was a big team forrelative to being by myself.
But yeah, it's a lot to manageall the emails and the edits and
the schedule and you knowrunning, like when does stuff go
on the podcast and and, as youknow, keeping up with pitching,
like following up with theeditor for the what feels like
(25:45):
the 6,000th time, like okay,remember, you said you liked my
idea, but in a kind of nice way.
And as far as the give and take, you know it can be hard to be
away and miss things and tryingto figure out can you make it to
that event for your friend, ordo you have to say no to the
trip, or it's a.
(26:06):
It's definitely some juggling,but everyone that works has to
juggle.
How many days can they be off?
You not necessarily get toevery bat mitzvah or every
family holiday because travelinghas gotten very expensive.
Flights have gone up, a lot,hotels have gone up.
It's it's um, I think a lot ofpeople struggle with that and
(26:29):
I'm you know from both sides forPR and the journalist side to
send people.
It's very expensive.
Angela Tuell (26:34):
It is.
It's very hard and I know I'vetalked about this with others is
we completely understand andknow that freelance journalists
cannot guarantee coverage.
There's another side to it withthe clients that are like but
we're investing so much moneyand you know how do we invest
this and then not sure if we get.
But you know it's our jobobviously to choose the
(26:56):
journalists who will, you know,who write often and we know will
do their best pitching stories.
But it's definitely a balancethere.
Lisa Niver (27:05):
I think that is one of the hardest.
Hardest things is that,messiness?
And so for myself, I am verycautious about what I agree to
take, because I don't want to bein the position where I can't
deliver, and so one of thethings that I have because I
built, we said, go travel and itsyndicates.
(27:25):
I also write for the JewishJournal as my 14th year.
So, I can confirm coverage foryou know my site, msn, the
Jewish Journal, I've forAntarctica.
I have four episodes that Ithat I recorded in Antarctica
they'll be on my podcast, and inIreland we recorded two
(27:46):
episodes that are already liveon my podcast.
So I have you know, with the TVsegments, if I'm doing, if I
can confirm that, plus thepodcast, plus the writing, and
then, like for Antarctica, Ihave a bunch of pitches out.
I already confirmed the storyfor print for Pasadena Magazine,
but I have a few other pitchesout.
So you're right, I think thatyou have to have it's like a
(28:06):
full court press of like so manythings.
And so for myself, I know youmentioned the videos, so I
posted my 51st video, my 51streel for Antarctica.
That's a lot of coverage andthey are my best performing
videos ever.
They're doing great on TikTok.
They're amazing.
(28:27):
Amazing interaction on Facebookand really good on YouTube.
My YouTube's over two and aquarter million views now.
So there's a lot happening.
Angela Tuell (28:36):
Yes, yes, it's like how do you keep track of it
all?
We also met.
You mentioned the podcast thatwe have to talk about before we
go.
Make your Own Map is a littleover two years old.
Right, and tell us more.
Lisa Niver (28:48):
Yes.
So I started Make your Own Mapwhen I turned in my book.
I turned in my book in Decemberand I started Make your Own Map
and I just wanted to be able totry something different.
And Spotify was one of thefirst, I believe, with a focus
on video podcasting.
Okay, and so I wrote to acouple of my friends in the
(29:24):
media side and I was like Idon't really understand what is
this video podcast?
How is it different from amovie?
It seems like a movie and I'mgood at that.
I know how to make a video.
And my one friend was like Idon't see any difference.
I'm like so I could just put upthe video, I could interview
someone on zoom and do the video, and that's a podcast now.
(29:46):
And she said I think so.
That's basically how it gotstarted, cause I figured, well,
if it's not right, I'll have topivot.
But I've started cause Spotifybought the one that it was I
can't remember the exact name,but I worked through a different
company that was specific withSpotify for video.
(30:07):
Now it's called Spotify forpodcasting or something like
that.
And then YouTube made its ownspecial thing about YouTube for
podcasting and because I'd beenon YouTube already so long I was
automatically had the accessfor the YouTube podcast because
a few people messaged me like,oh, I want to have my podcast on
(30:28):
YouTube, and I was like youjust click on it and like no, no
, I cannot click on it.
I was like I'm sorry, I've hadYouTube a really long time and I
have a lot of everything onYouTube.
I have subscribers, I haveviews, so I there was a thing
where you had to have like you'dearn in.
You had to have like a certainamount of minutes to be able at
the time.
(30:49):
It may be very different now,but, um, you know, I just always
I'm willing to try almostanything.
Someone was asking me lastnight when we were out to dinner
after the book event about TikTOK like you're on Tik TOK, I'm
like I had to.
My agent had this workshopabout social media and this they
(31:10):
gave a challenge to to get onTik TOK and and every author had
an excuse I'm too old, I'm toougly, I don't sound good.
Anyway, the challenge was tomake five TikTok reels a day for
30 days.
Everybody refused to do it Alot, oh my God, it's huge.
So I agreed to do one day.
I said I'll do one day.
That's how I do everythingSmall steps.
(31:32):
I'll do one day, I'll make five.
I was in Vegas for a scubaconvention.
I was like I'll do one day andI met a couple people during the
day that were good at TikTokand they gave me tips after I'd
done the workshop.
And that night at dinner one ofthe ladies knew stuff about
Instagram bonuses.
Everybody helped me and then Ihad like a thousand views the
first day.
(31:52):
So I was like, okay, I'll dothe second day.
Anyway, never gave up.
I just kept doing it.
Only one day, only one morevideo.
At the end of 30 days I agreedto do another 30 days and at the
end of 90 days, that was when Isigned the contract with my
publisher.
Wow, yes, it's very hard to keepgoing sometimes, but I always
(32:15):
recommend people start verysmall If you can start for free.
People always ask me you know,should I pay for a logo for my
website?
Should I, you know, buy hostingfor my podcast?
Should I hire someone?
I'm like you can, if you havemoney to burn, you do whatever
you want.
But I always recommend you knowwell, just try it.
Maybe maybe it's not for you,maybe you don't want to post
(32:37):
every week, maybe you only wantto post once a month, maybe
you're not a podcaster, you're aTikToker.
Cause over the years, right I,the website started in 2010.
It's been a long journey for meOver the years.
I mean, I remember when was noTwitter?
And then, all of a sudden,people were like, oh, you have
to join this thing.
It's called Twitter.
I'm like what is that?
So over the years, I've addedeach thing.
(33:00):
But you know, there's one ofthose cartoons you sometimes see
and it says how do you eat anelephant?
One bite at a time.
Angela Tuell (33:11):
Yes, yes, oh, that's such great advice.
So what is the best way for ourlisteners to connect with you
online?
I know there are so many ways.
Lisa Niver (33:19):
We'll include all of those links.
I know I think we justoverwhelmed everyone, but you
can find me on pretty much anysocial media platform with my
name, lisa Niver, and I have awebsite that's lisanivercom.
I have wesaidgotravelcom, andboth of those websites have
(33:40):
access to my book, my podcast,oh yeah, and I have a class.
Angela Tuell (33:45):
Oh, okay, we will link to that also.
Lisa Niver (33:47):
Yeah, actually, I'll give you a code and people can
have a free, complimentaryaccess.
It's Travel Writer 101.
It's on a platform called Udemyand people always ask me how
could they get started as atravel writer?
And so many people ask me.
I was like you know what?
I'm just going to make thisclass Love it and I call it.
(34:07):
It's like an appetizer.
It's just a little taster ofthe different areas you have to
do if you want to be a travelwriter, and I link in my course
to people that have longercourses about specific things,
like the Nina from travel andleisure has an amazing class,
but I don't necessarily know ifyou've never written for
(34:29):
anywhere that you want a hugeclass like my class is just a
taster that's great.
Angela Tuell (34:34):
Thank you so much, lisa.
I really appreciate your time.
Thank you, angela.
This has been so much fun.
That's all for this episode ofMedia in Minutes, a podcast by
Communications Redefined.
Take a moment to rate, reviewand subscribe to our show.
We'd love to hear what youthink you can find more at
communicationsredefinedcom slashpodcast.
(34:55):
I'm your host, Angela Tuell.
Talk to you next time.
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