September 4, 2025 • 29 mins
Ever wondered what it takes to carve out a sustainable career in the ultra-competitive world of sports journalism? Yahoo Sports breaking news writer Ian Casselberry pulls back the curtain on his remarkable 15-year journey through some of sports media's biggest names.
Casselberry's path defies conventional wisdom. Starting with a personal blog while at the University of Iowa, he gradually gained recognition from established publications like the Detroit Free Press before landing roles at SB Nation, Bleacher Report, Sports Illustrated and now Yahoo Sports. His story offers a masterclass in persistence and adaptability in an industry where traditional career ladders have largely disappeared.
What truly sets Casselberry apart is his ability to maintain genuine passion for sports despite the daily grind. "I do still love sports," he shares. "That is the fuel, that is the juice... what gets me going on writing." This authentic enthusiasm shines through in his storytelling approach, where he weaves cultural references and personality into breaking news coverage. From the Dodgers' 2020 World Series run to the recent Paris Olympics, Casselberry has witnessed sports history while producing 20-25 stories weekly for Yahoo's massive audience.
The conversation delivers practical wisdom for media professionals at any stage: finding unique angles within crowded news cycles, blending personal voice with professional standards, handling editorial feedback constructively and balancing audience demands with creative instincts. Casselberry's journey proves that while the path may not be linear, those with determination and adaptability can build lasting careers telling the stories that connect us all.
Ready to dive deeper into the world of sports media? Follow Ian on social platforms @ian_cass.
Please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe to the Media in Minutes podcast here or anywhere you get your podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/media-in-minutes/id1555710662
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Angela Tuell (00:05):
Welcome to Media in Minutes.
This is your host, Angela Tuell.
This podcast features in-depthinterviews with those who report
on the world around us.
They share everything fromtheir favorite stories to what
happened behind the lens andgive us a glimpse into their
world From our studio here atCommunications Redefined.
This is Media in Minutes.
In today's episode, we'retalking with Ian Casselberry, a
(00:33):
veteran sports writer and editorwho currently is a breaking
news writer for Yahoo Sports.
With nearly 15 years in sportsjournalism, ian has written for
some of the most recognizablenames in sports media, including
Sports Illustrated, bleacherReport, espncom, usa Today and
many others.
A Michigan native, now based inTennessee, ian began his career
(00:56):
writing about Detroit sportsand has since covered everything
from the Dodgers World Seriesrun to NFL trade deadlines and
the media narratives behindmajor sporting events.
Ian calls his greatestachievement being able to make a
sustainable living doing thework he loves.
Today, we'll talk about hiscareer evolution, lessons from
life inside sports media andwhat's ahead in an ever-changing
(01:19):
journalism landscape.
Hello, ian, thanks for joiningus today.
Ian Casselberry (01:24):
Angela, thanks so much for inviting me.
That's really really flatteringto be a part of your show.
Angela Tuell (01:28):
Oh, I am excited to talk with you.
I must say, you know, you'vespent nearly 15 years in sports
media, which is impressive.
How did your journey begin?
Ian Casselberry (01:41):
Oh gosh.
I mean I didn't follow aconventional path, which is
something that I always try toemphasize to any young writers
who ask about my career and howI may have gotten to where I am.
So I started out in the early2000s writing a personal blog
while I was at the University ofIowa, iowa.
(02:07):
That's when blogging reallystarted to become popular and
actually became a realisticoutlet for people, not just to
get their writing out there, butsome people were getting hired
for jobs writing books etc.
So I thought it would providean outlet.
I mostly started writing andupdating the blog as a way for
my friends and family back inMichigan.
Writing and updating the blogas a way for my friends and
family back in Michigan to keepup with what I was doing.
I couldn't talk to sports,about sports or movies or TV
(02:30):
with them all the time, so thenI'd write about it and they can
see what I thought.
But then I noticed, the more Iwrote about sports, that was the
stuff that was getting morenotice, either by you know,
people reading.
And then even back home inMichigan the Detroit Free Press
noticed me and included me in apiece on local bloggers, even
(02:53):
though I was in Iowa.
That sort of established afoothold and I kept at it when I
finished school and moved backto Michigan and got more notice
that way and it just started tobuild.
Angela Tuell (03:07):
Okay, so walk us through your career a little bit
from that point to where youare today.
I know, I know there's beenlots, of, lots of steps, but how
would you, how would?
You talk about it.
Ian Casselberry (03:18):
Again I also.
I got featured in a story inthe Metro Times, the Detroit Alt
Weekly newspaper, and againthat just kind of created more
notice and it was just pluggingaway trying to write as
regularly as I could.
And SB Nation recruited me torun their Detroit Tigers blog,
(03:42):
their community Bless you Boys.
And that's when I started to benoticed by and establish some
relationships with localreporters and out of town
reporters began to reach out,you know when their team would
play the Tigers.
So I always hoped kind of dreamthat that work could be used as
(04:02):
a springboard.
But that's when it really beganto feel like an actual
possibility.
Angela Tuell (04:08):
Yeah, and you know sports journalism and I know
this because I had a lot offriends as I was in college a
lot that were in sportsjournalism.
That's even I'm trying to thinkof the right way to say it even
tougher to work in than otherareas of journalism.
Ian Casselberry (04:25):
There's just less jobs there are fewer jobs
and I think the path to gettingbetter jobs is pretty limited.
Yeah, I mean, that's one thingthat was great about blogging
and I feel really fortunate thatit came into popularity at that
time, because you know it usedto be.
You had to try to get a job ata local newspaper, start out
(04:47):
covering high school sports.
But even moving up like thatwould depend on whether you know
an established writer orsomebody who was in there was
moving on or giving up a job.
And you know, in a lot of casesthose jobs are good and people
aren't going to give them up, soyou would run into a ceiling.
So I was fortunate thatblogging allowed me an outlet
(05:11):
and a chance to learn how towrite.
Yeah, without necessarilyfollowing that path, and I
certainly understand, at firstthere was some resentment.
I would probably have felt thesame way.
You know you're at a newspaperand you paid your dues, and here
comes somebody who's just youknow writing their own stuff on
(05:34):
their site.
But you know, I think, as theynot everybody, but as they
discovered, you know, read yourstuff realized you were working
hard at it too.
Maybe it wasn't the same path,but you, if you show you take it
seriously and the work is good.
Um those, um, that chillstarted to melt.
Angela Tuell (05:56):
Yes, good, good.
So you've also so along the wayyou worked um outlets like
sports illustrated bleacherreport.
You mentioned M live SB nation.
It's like Sports IllustratedBleacher Report.
You mentioned MLive SB Nation.
Ian Casselberry (06:09):
What did you learn working with so many great
sports outlets?
I've learned somethingimportant, I think, from each of
those stops, like with BleacherReport.
It was how to drill deeper tofind different angles on a story
.
Like you know, yankees beat RedSox is obviously one story, but
you know, we would figure outways to wring out three or four
(06:33):
more stories maybe from that.
And that's something I feellike I really learned at
Bleacher Report.
Mlive was really my firstintroduction to a more
professional environment andreally helped me to learn how to
mix my blogging voice with amore formal new style.
Like at first, I think I feltlike I needed to.
(06:54):
I needed to write like they doin the newspaper.
And then, you know, you come torealize, or an editor may have
said say, you know, we didn't,we didn't hire you to write just
like the guys covering the team.
You know you.
You know we didn't, we didn'thire you to write just like the
guys covering the team.
You know you.
You know if you were moreirreverent or so forth, we want
you to bring that um into thatcontent as well.
And then um sports illustratedjust um really taught me how to
(07:20):
write quickly and cleanly, whichI thought I knew how to do
before.
Um, but again this was in moreof a structured environment with
stricter editing, and I thinkthat just certainly helped me to
where I am today in getting tomy point quickly, getting the
(07:40):
information that the readerneeds quickly, just doing that
as concisely as possible.
Angela Tuell (07:47):
So how would you describe your writing style and
how is it different from others?
Ian Casselberry (07:51):
I mean, I try to write in more of less of a
formal sports writing style,like if I can kind of weave a
little bit more of astorytelling element into there
maybe that's more common now andnot as different as it once
(08:13):
felt and then trying to work youknow you can't push it too much
, but trying to work maybe acultural reference in there, you
know, like occasionally a songlyric or a movie reference or
just something that will appealto the reader, like, hey, you
know, oh, they're just like me,you know they watch Seinfeld or
(08:35):
whatever.
Right, oh, they're just like me, you know they, they watch
Seinfeld or whatever.
Um, so I've I've always triedto have some personality in
there rather than, um, just belike a dry um.
Such and such team beat suchand such team, this person hit a
home run, et cetera.
Angela Tuell (08:50):
Yeah, that's great .
I'd love to know some of thehighlights of your career so far
.
I could guess that one mighthave been the Dodgers 2020 World
Series coverage for SportsIllustrated, but I could be
wrong.
So what are highlights so far?
Ian Casselberry (09:05):
That is definitely a highlight.
That was an unusual situationbecause I'm not based in Los
Angeles.
I wasn't at the time.
I couldn't go to games orinterview players in the locker
room, but it was during COVID,so none of the regular reporters
on the beat could either.
So we were all sort of in thein the same boat and I could do
my job even from North Carolina,um, as strange as that might
(09:30):
seem, not being in Los Angeles,but I could do my job in much
the same way.
You know, we, we would talk tothe, to the managers and the
players via zoom, um, but I was,uh, a friend of mine was
working, uh, at sportsillustrated and needed some help
doing secondary stories, andasked if I'd be interested in
helping out.
Um, so that, yeah, that was.
That was a memorable experience.
(09:51):
It was fun and informative,covering a team every single day
, which was sort of a dreamgrowing up.
And I also remember the timedifference being an obstacle,
being in the Eastern time zone.
I remember, you know, like Iwould have some regular radio
appearances during that time,and there was a couple of them I
(10:13):
missed because I fell asleep.
You know I was so worn out fromthe late nights, but another
real quick, another memorableexperience, maybe because it was
just so recently, but coveringthe Paris Olympics with Yahoo,
that was just really fun.
I mean, covering differentsports took me out of a comfort
(10:34):
zone in the best way, and it wasjust really fun.
I mean, covering differentsports took me out of a comfort
zone in the best way and it wasjust really fun seeing the
entire machinery of Yahoo Sportsat work and being part of that
team, corresponding with editorsand reporters in Paris, working
at odd hours, and all of uswere on the same beat, whereas
usually we're kind of fragmented.
You know, ok, he's the footballeditor, he's the MMA editor,
(10:57):
etc.
But we're all working togetherto cover the Olympics.
Angela Tuell (11:02):
Wow, that does sound fantastic, and you
mentioned we said this in ourintro but you are a breaking
news writer and editor for YahooSports, so where is your focus
typically?
Ian Casselberry (11:14):
It's the news of the day.
I mean, we have meetingsbeforehand, you know, looking at
what might come up.
You know, this time of year,you know, with football, college
football in the NFL being soprominent, you know looking at
who and what are the big storiescoming up will be.
(11:35):
That's usually how we set theday.
Sometimes it just depends onwhat pops up on the news cycle,
but usually we have a good ideaof, you know, a certain player
is unhappy with their contract,or you know anything the Dallas
Cowboys or the Los AngelesLakers do.
You know that's usuallysomething we can cover pretty
(11:59):
easily.
But yeah, usually it depends onthe news cycle.
And, and I think also, I don'tknow if we all do this, I hope
we do but you know, just kind ofkeeping a general eye on
everything, like just knowing,like okay, if this team wins
tonight, they'll make theplayoffs, or this team has has
won nine in a row and the recordis 11.
(12:22):
So let's, let's keep an eye onthat.
And then you know there arepersonalities that are just
always worth covering these days, like Caitlin Clark.
Anything she does, you know,she's back.
I don't know if I mentionedCaitlin Clark.
Anything she does, she's backin practice.
Angela Tuell (12:35):
so we'll cover that.
I'm in Indianapolis, so oh,okay, all right.
We actually saw her at dinnerthe other night.
Really we were the only ones inthe rooms together and we
noticed that this table wasbeing really loud her and her
boyfriend and one other personshe wasn't, but you know and
when she stood up we're lookingat her and we're like that's she
saw us just staring and shesmiled and waved at us.
Ian Casselberry (12:55):
It's really nice because she knew probably
as we were looking at her Wasthat sort of the moment where,
like, sometimes you'll seesomebody famous in public but
you can't quite place where youremember them from.
Like I remember seeing a newsreporter once at a restaurant
I'm like I know her fromsomewhere and I kept looking at
her and finally she looked overat me like what is your problem?
Right and I thought oh allright, yes, she's a news
(13:18):
reporter, I will stop lookingover there.
Angela Tuell (13:20):
And you see someone like that who's so
famous that it doesn't registerthat she looks like such a
typical normal person, you know,and I just, I don't know,
imagining she was much tallerthan she was or that sort of
thing, so yeah, oh, that wouldhave been great.
Ian Casselberry (13:35):
I thought you'd be taller.
Angela Tuell (13:36):
Right.
So how many stories do youtypically write a week, or is it
a day?
Ian Casselberry (13:44):
Oh gosh, it depends on the day and the news
cycle.
Of course Some stories, youknow, generate follow-ups very
quickly, like I said beforedrilling down on a story.
But for me, typically I feellike it's a good day if I get
four stories in an eight-hourday.
So it's typically 20 to 25stories a week.
(14:08):
Sometimes it's more if thestories are real short and to
the point and occasionally it'sless if you're able to write a
little longer, like a reactionor analysis piece.
But yeah, I'd say about 20 to25 a week.
Angela Tuell (14:24):
Okay, so do you work with publicists?
Often Are they typicallypitching you or you know what's
your interaction.
Ian Casselberry (14:31):
I don't work as much with them at Yahoo because
really we're just we areanswering or responding to the
news cycle.
I do get plenty of emails frompublicists and media reps about
that sort of thing.
I I work with them much morewhen I worked when I covered
(14:52):
sports media, because often youknow what they were trying to
pitch is something that Ithought would make for a good
story and it would serve ouraudience.
Um, unfortunately and I oftenfeel bad about this is that what
I am being pitched just isn'tsomething, um, that I would get
to um in in the course of theday or that would serve our
(15:15):
audience.
And I try to respond andimpress upon the person Because
I know they have a job to do aswell, of course.
So, yeah, I don't get to workwith public relations as much,
but sometimes it works outreally well.
Like the Cleveland Cavaliersbasketball team.
(15:37):
But sometimes sometimes itworks out really well Like um,
the Cleveland Cavaliersbasketball team, for instance.
You know they, they kind of tooka step up and were really
successful last season and Iended up writing more stories
about them just as a consequenceof that and their, their people
reached out to me.
So you know we enjoy the stuffyou're writing.
You're writing a lot about them, you know.
Would you like some moreinformation, or would you like
(15:58):
to, you know, cover these sortsof stories?
This is what we're doing.
So I mean, I guess in mycurrent situation that's, that's
an ideal circumstance when itjust kind of meshes like that.
Angela Tuell (16:10):
Yeah, how does Yahoo Sports work?
I mean, there are otherjournalists that I'm assuming
that are assigned to beatsoutside of breaking right that
take on from the stories thatyou guys write like here's the
breaking news, and then theyelaborate further as stories are
needed If they're covering thatbeat.
Ian Casselberry (16:28):
Yeah, yeah, we, we, yeah, we have our breaking
news team and then, like eachindividual sport, hasists or
people who might, they mightwrite news stories as well, but
concentrated more on that sport.
So I kind of think of it as likewe take the immediate thing.
(16:49):
You know, lebron James signs anew contract and then a
columnist will come in and say,okay, this is what this means,
this is how likely it is thatyou know lebron will play for
the lakers for the next fiveyears, or how does this affect
their ability to put together ateam?
So, yeah, there are a lot of um, uh, columnists, uh, that work
(17:12):
on individual sports.
And then with yahoo, yahoo,yahoo Sports is making more of a
push into original video andpodcasting, which I'm not really
a part of that, but it is abigger thrust of the entire
operation which you know.
Now we'll have a daily sportsprogram, a daily or, you know, a
(17:38):
weekly basketball program, aweekly football program, just
trying to reach audiences inpodcasting or people who you
know increasingly watch onYouTube and things like Roku.
That's a bigger part of theoperation recently.
Angela Tuell (17:57):
Yeah, I can imagine that that's definitely
growing.
When you started with Yahoo,what were you surprised to learn
?
Ian Casselberry (18:05):
You know it was a struggle to write what.
What does trending mean?
I mean, breaking news is prettyself-explanatory, probably.
But trending looking at GoogleTrends and resources like
ChartBeat to see what people areclicking and searching for, I
(18:37):
had to learn that maybe the moreesoteric stories or things that
I thought would be funny didn'tnecessarily have an audience at
Yahoo.
That's changed.
I think we've all had to learn.
Our team is relatively new interms of new editors taking over
and new writers coming on, sothat was the hardest part.
(18:58):
And then just knowing thatYahoo is such a big resource in
terms of search engine and soforth, so things you write are
going to be picked up by theYahoo Sports front page or
ideally they're picked up by thefront page and just trying to
(19:20):
write to that audience.
That's I mean.
You asked what I learned atdifferent stops and I think
that's, with each step, justlearning that OK you are, you
have to write to what theaudience wants rather than what
you think is interesting.
Angela Tuell (19:37):
Yes, absolutely.
That's the challenging part ofa journalist's job sometimes.
Ian Casselberry (19:42):
Yeah.
Angela Tuell (19:43):
Does AI play a role in your work?
Ian Casselberry (19:46):
It doesn't.
There is some, I believe.
Yahoo uses AI to transcribepodcasts for people who can't
listen or watch.
You know that they can read thetranscript, but in terms of our
writing and editing process, AIhas no role.
Angela Tuell (20:06):
Yeah, that's a very interesting area With many.
We see some outlets using itfor, like you said, you know,
transcribing or even just introsto articles or planning
purposes.
So we'll see where it all goes.
Ian Casselberry (20:21):
Absolutely, and you know people are ready to
pounce on it too if they findout.
You know like, oh, we heardthat Yahoo or Sports Illustrated
is using AI.
You know that's crazy.
And then you know, a lot oftimes I mean it's not my job
necessarily, but if someone asksI'll answer, but you know
that's something that we have torespond to, and then you know
(20:42):
what people's idea of what AIwould be also is that it doesn't
mean AI is writing the story,but maybe they help us do
research or something like that.
That's a tool, not the maindriver of stories.
Angela Tuell (20:59):
Right, absolutely.
I must ask do you still lovesports?
I know many times whensomething you know is our job.
It's not as much of a hobbyanymore as it was.
Ian Casselberry (21:11):
I do love sports and that is something I
mean.
You're so right.
I mean, when it becomes work,it's something that is just your
job and maybe you feel the needto get away from and I'm sure
this applies in plenty of otherbeats and areas in journalism as
well see some sports writerswho don't seem to love sports or
(21:35):
don't seem to watch sports, andI think it affects their
coverage especially, maybe, asthey get older.
I do still love sports.
I mean, to me that is the fuel,that is the juice, as they said
in Heat of what gets, uh, whatgets me going on writing is that
(21:56):
I still love.
I still love writing about thesports.
I still love conveying, justlike you know, do you realize
how amazing what that person didis?
You know, like you can't dothat in your driveway.
So, uh, yeah, I still lovesports.
Maybe I don't watch as muchwhen I'm not working, just to
(22:16):
get a little bit of a break fromit, but I mean I'm still.
I'm watching Michigan footballand the Detroit Lions when I'm
not working.
I still love.
Angela Tuell (22:26):
I still love my teams, yeah yeah, football is
probably the favorite now Mostof my writing has been baseball.
Ian Casselberry (22:38):
Baseball is a favorite, yeah, I enjoy all of
them.
I enjoy, yeah, my local sportsteams especially.
Angela Tuell (22:46):
That's awesome.
Yeah, we talked a little bit inthe beginning about having such
a sustainable, long career injournalism so far, and it has to
be one of your proudestachievements.
It's very something that wedon't see a lot.
You know, there really are alot of journalists that love to
leave the field.
How do you think you've managedto stay in journalism and be so
(23:08):
successful?
Ian Casselberry (23:10):
Some of it is just stubbornness, I suppose,
like I don't know what else I'mgoing to do or could do.
I have thought.
You know it has been a struggleat times to think okay how can
these skills be applied in adifferent area?
And, honestly, if we'd beenhaving this conversation two,
(23:31):
maybe three years ago, I mean Iwasn't sure if I was going to
stay in journalism.
Um, so I, I was very luckilylucky to catch on with sports
illustrated and then, uh, yahoo,I've been fortunate enough, um,
you know, to have a really um,supportive family, um,
circumstances have worked outwhere maybe I was able to a
(23:54):
chance where others might not.
But I think also, you know,struggling and making very
little money or working day jobsaround journalism also sort of
instilled a little bit of a workethic that somebody who just
goes straight, you know, whogoes straight out of college and
(24:17):
never really had to worry aboutworking a retail job or
something like that, aperspective that people like
that might not have.
Angela Tuell (24:26):
Yes.
Ian Casselberry (24:27):
And I think I mean I'm not in the position of
hiring anybody, but, like when Ilook at somebody's resume on
LinkedIn, for instance, I mean Isome people might say like, oh,
you know, they've been workingat a coffee shop all throughout
college.
What do they know aboutjournalism?
I said, well, you know, thatperson knows about working with
a team, they know about workingwith managers, they know about
(24:49):
working with customers, andthose skills can be applied to
journalism.
And I think that very oftenneeds to be taken into
consideration, more than howmany Twitter followers they have
, for instance.
Angela Tuell (25:00):
Yes, you have to be able to talk to people, yes,
and talk not just over, notdigitally always, but you have
to be able to have thoseconversations.
That's a main skill ofjournalism.
Ian Casselberry (25:12):
Absolutely and yeah, I think that's a skill not
enough.
Young writers learn not justtalking to subjects, but working
with editors and takingconstructive feedback.
Hopefully the feedback isconstructive, right and just
learning how to you know thatit's not a slight against you.
(25:34):
Necessarily.
They're trying to help you getbetter or pointing out where you
need to improve.
Angela Tuell (25:39):
Yeah, so what do you hope the future holds for
you professionally?
Ian Casselberry (25:44):
Oh gosh.
I mean we talked about thedifferent jobs at Yahoo.
Being a columnist on aparticular sport or beat would
be fantastic.
I don't know if that's in thecards or not.
Like many of your guests, Iwould certainly love to write a
(26:04):
book, bouncing around plenty ofideas.
I would love to write a memoirabout my mother, for instance.
She grew up in Malaysia.
She wanted to originally becomea nun and then she she left
Malaysia to come to America whenshe met my father in the Peace
(26:26):
Corps and I just.
there's so many stories therenot just that I want to tell
people, but I want to learnmyself in having those
conversations with my mother,and this is something,
unfortunately, I've talked aboutfor like 10 years and haven't
I've only really dipped my toein and I really hope to have an
opportunity to work on somethinglike that in the future.
Angela Tuell (26:48):
That's something you just have to start doing so
it doesn't get too late, right.
Ian Casselberry (26:52):
Yes, that is exactly before it gets too late.
Yes, yes, use a recorder.
You don, that is exactly beforeit gets too late.
Angela Tuell (26:55):
Yes, yes, use a recorder.
You don't even have to startwriting yet, right, you could
just record it all in.
Ian Casselberry (27:02):
Right, I just you know, just get used to me
having my phone in your face.
Angela Tuell (27:05):
Right, exactly, it's so natural.
So how can our listenersconnect with you online?
Ian Casselberry (27:13):
I am on all of the uh popular social media
platforms um.
Blue sky and instagram andfacebook are probably um my
preferred or or uh most funoutlets um I'm ian cass on all
of those outlets.
I-a-n-c-a-s-s um I am ontwitter and threads, but I don't
(27:35):
use those outlets as much.
I mean, I will respond ifanyone were to reach out, but I
just don't update those thoseplatforms very much.
I am on TikTok, but I am not.
I am not active on TikTok.
I don't feel my dance skillsare strong enough yet, much to
the disappointment of my nieces.
Angela Tuell (27:57):
Right, I'm sure.
Ian Casselberry (28:00):
But yeah, that's how I can connect with
people.
Angela Tuell (28:04):
Wonderful and your blog is still active.
Ian Casselberry (28:08):
Not as active as I'd like it to be.
The blogging for Yahoo takes upso much time and then I have
time off.
I just don't have the energy orthe interest.
I'm trying to keep it up.
It is important to me to writeabout different things and, as I
said earlier, my personalwriting has always been a way of
(28:29):
keeping up with my friends.
Really, I feel like I write formy friends more than anybody
else.
Friends, really, I feel like Iwrite for my friends more than
anybody else, and I think it'simportant to use writing muscles
that I don't always get to usewhen covering sports or even
just to see how you know how Iapproach sports could be applied
to something else, like writingabout arts and culture.
Angela Tuell (28:51):
Right.
Ian Casselberry (28:51):
Yeah.
Angela Tuell (28:52):
Yeah, your skills are not only in sports, even
though it may feel like itsometimes, right?
Ian Casselberry (28:58):
Right, I have multitudes.
Angela Tuell (29:00):
Well, thank you so much, Ian.
Ian Casselberry (29:02):
Thank you so much for having me on your
podcast, Angela.
This has been great.
Angela Tuell (29:06):
That's all for this episode of Media in Minutes
, a podcast by CommunicationsRedefined.
Take a moment to rate, reviewand subscribe to our show.
We'd love to hear what youthink you can find more at
communicationsredefinedcom slashpodcast.
I'm your host, Angela Tuell.
Talk to you next time.
Welcome to Media in Minutes.
This is your host, Angela Tuell.
This podcast features in-depthinterviews with those who report
on the world around us.
They share everything fromtheir favorite stories to what
happened behind the lens andgive us a glimpse into their
world From our studio here atCommunications Redefined.
This is Media in Minutes.
In today's episode, we'retalking with Ian Casselberry, a
(00:33):
veteran sports writer and editorwho currently is a breaking
news writer for Yahoo Sports.
With nearly 15 years in sportsjournalism, ian has written for
some of the most recognizablenames in sports media, including
Sports Illustrated, bleacherReport, espncom, usa Today and
many others.
A Michigan native, now based inTennessee, ian began his career
(00:56):
writing about Detroit sportsand has since covered everything
from the Dodgers World Seriesrun to NFL trade deadlines and
the media narratives behindmajor sporting events.
Ian calls his greatestachievement being able to make a
sustainable living doing thework he loves.
Today, we'll talk about hiscareer evolution, lessons from
life inside sports media andwhat's ahead in an ever-changing
(01:19):
journalism landscape.
Hello, ian, thanks for joiningus today.
Ian Casselberry (01:24):
Angela, thanks so much for inviting me.
That's really really flatteringto be a part of your show.
Angela Tuell (01:28):
Oh, I am excited to talk with you.
I must say, you know, you'vespent nearly 15 years in sports
media, which is impressive.
How did your journey begin?
Ian Casselberry (01:41):
Oh gosh.
I mean I didn't follow aconventional path, which is
something that I always try toemphasize to any young writers
who ask about my career and howI may have gotten to where I am.
So I started out in the early2000s writing a personal blog
while I was at the University ofIowa, iowa.
(02:07):
That's when blogging reallystarted to become popular and
actually became a realisticoutlet for people, not just to
get their writing out there, butsome people were getting hired
for jobs writing books etc.
So I thought it would providean outlet.
I mostly started writing andupdating the blog as a way for
my friends and family back inMichigan.
Writing and updating the blogas a way for my friends and
family back in Michigan to keepup with what I was doing.
I couldn't talk to sports,about sports or movies or TV
(02:30):
with them all the time, so thenI'd write about it and they can
see what I thought.
But then I noticed, the more Iwrote about sports, that was the
stuff that was getting morenotice, either by you know,
people reading.
And then even back home inMichigan the Detroit Free Press
noticed me and included me in apiece on local bloggers, even
(02:53):
though I was in Iowa.
That sort of established afoothold and I kept at it when I
finished school and moved backto Michigan and got more notice
that way and it just started tobuild.
Angela Tuell (03:07):
Okay, so walk us through your career a little bit
from that point to where youare today.
I know, I know there's beenlots, of, lots of steps, but how
would you, how would?
You talk about it.
Ian Casselberry (03:18):
Again I also.
I got featured in a story inthe Metro Times, the Detroit Alt
Weekly newspaper, and againthat just kind of created more
notice and it was just pluggingaway trying to write as
regularly as I could.
And SB Nation recruited me torun their Detroit Tigers blog,
(03:42):
their community Bless you Boys.
And that's when I started to benoticed by and establish some
relationships with localreporters and out of town
reporters began to reach out,you know when their team would
play the Tigers.
So I always hoped kind of dreamthat that work could be used as
(04:02):
a springboard.
But that's when it really beganto feel like an actual
possibility.
Angela Tuell (04:08):
Yeah, and you know sports journalism and I know
this because I had a lot offriends as I was in college a
lot that were in sportsjournalism.
That's even I'm trying to thinkof the right way to say it even
tougher to work in than otherareas of journalism.
Ian Casselberry (04:25):
There's just less jobs there are fewer jobs
and I think the path to gettingbetter jobs is pretty limited.
Yeah, I mean, that's one thingthat was great about blogging
and I feel really fortunate thatit came into popularity at that
time, because you know it usedto be.
You had to try to get a job ata local newspaper, start out
(04:47):
covering high school sports.
But even moving up like thatwould depend on whether you know
an established writer orsomebody who was in there was
moving on or giving up a job.
And you know, in a lot of casesthose jobs are good and people
aren't going to give them up, soyou would run into a ceiling.
So I was fortunate thatblogging allowed me an outlet
(05:11):
and a chance to learn how towrite.
Yeah, without necessarilyfollowing that path, and I
certainly understand, at firstthere was some resentment.
I would probably have felt thesame way.
You know you're at a newspaperand you paid your dues, and here
comes somebody who's just youknow writing their own stuff on
(05:34):
their site.
But you know, I think, as theynot everybody, but as they
discovered, you know, read yourstuff realized you were working
hard at it too.
Maybe it wasn't the same path,but you, if you show you take it
seriously and the work is good.
Um those, um, that chillstarted to melt.
Angela Tuell (05:56):
Yes, good, good.
So you've also so along the wayyou worked um outlets like
sports illustrated bleacherreport.
You mentioned M live SB nation.
It's like Sports IllustratedBleacher Report.
You mentioned MLive SB Nation.
Ian Casselberry (06:09):
What did you learn working with so many great
sports outlets?
I've learned somethingimportant, I think, from each of
those stops, like with BleacherReport.
It was how to drill deeper tofind different angles on a story
.
Like you know, yankees beat RedSox is obviously one story, but
you know, we would figure outways to wring out three or four
(06:33):
more stories maybe from that.
And that's something I feellike I really learned at
Bleacher Report.
Mlive was really my firstintroduction to a more
professional environment andreally helped me to learn how to
mix my blogging voice with amore formal new style.
Like at first, I think I feltlike I needed to.
(06:54):
I needed to write like they doin the newspaper.
And then, you know, you come torealize, or an editor may have
said say, you know, we didn't,we didn't hire you to write just
like the guys covering the team.
You know you.
You know we didn't, we didn'thire you to write just like the
guys covering the team.
You know you.
You know if you were moreirreverent or so forth, we want
you to bring that um into thatcontent as well.
And then um sports illustratedjust um really taught me how to
(07:20):
write quickly and cleanly, whichI thought I knew how to do
before.
Um, but again this was in moreof a structured environment with
stricter editing, and I thinkthat just certainly helped me to
where I am today in getting tomy point quickly, getting the
(07:40):
information that the readerneeds quickly, just doing that
as concisely as possible.
Angela Tuell (07:47):
So how would you describe your writing style and
how is it different from others?
Ian Casselberry (07:51):
I mean, I try to write in more of less of a
formal sports writing style,like if I can kind of weave a
little bit more of astorytelling element into there
maybe that's more common now andnot as different as it once
(08:13):
felt and then trying to work youknow you can't push it too much
, but trying to work maybe acultural reference in there, you
know, like occasionally a songlyric or a movie reference or
just something that will appealto the reader, like, hey, you
know, oh, they're just like me,you know they watch Seinfeld or
(08:35):
whatever.
Right, oh, they're just like me, you know they, they watch
Seinfeld or whatever.
Um, so I've I've always triedto have some personality in
there rather than, um, just belike a dry um.
Such and such team beat suchand such team, this person hit a
home run, et cetera.
Angela Tuell (08:50):
Yeah, that's great .
I'd love to know some of thehighlights of your career so far
.
I could guess that one mighthave been the Dodgers 2020 World
Series coverage for SportsIllustrated, but I could be
wrong.
So what are highlights so far?
Ian Casselberry (09:05):
That is definitely a highlight.
That was an unusual situationbecause I'm not based in Los
Angeles.
I wasn't at the time.
I couldn't go to games orinterview players in the locker
room, but it was during COVID,so none of the regular reporters
on the beat could either.
So we were all sort of in thein the same boat and I could do
my job even from North Carolina,um, as strange as that might
(09:30):
seem, not being in Los Angeles,but I could do my job in much
the same way.
You know, we, we would talk tothe, to the managers and the
players via zoom, um, but I was,uh, a friend of mine was
working, uh, at sportsillustrated and needed some help
doing secondary stories, andasked if I'd be interested in
helping out.
Um, so that, yeah, that was.
That was a memorable experience.
(09:51):
It was fun and informative,covering a team every single day
, which was sort of a dreamgrowing up.
And I also remember the timedifference being an obstacle,
being in the Eastern time zone.
I remember, you know, like Iwould have some regular radio
appearances during that time,and there was a couple of them I
(10:13):
missed because I fell asleep.
You know I was so worn out fromthe late nights, but another
real quick, another memorableexperience, maybe because it was
just so recently, but coveringthe Paris Olympics with Yahoo,
that was just really fun.
I mean, covering differentsports took me out of a comfort
(10:34):
zone in the best way, and it wasjust really fun.
I mean, covering differentsports took me out of a comfort
zone in the best way and it wasjust really fun seeing the
entire machinery of Yahoo Sportsat work and being part of that
team, corresponding with editorsand reporters in Paris, working
at odd hours, and all of uswere on the same beat, whereas
usually we're kind of fragmented.
You know, ok, he's the footballeditor, he's the MMA editor,
(10:57):
etc.
But we're all working togetherto cover the Olympics.
Angela Tuell (11:02):
Wow, that does sound fantastic, and you
mentioned we said this in ourintro but you are a breaking
news writer and editor for YahooSports, so where is your focus
typically?
Ian Casselberry (11:14):
It's the news of the day.
I mean, we have meetingsbeforehand, you know, looking at
what might come up.
You know, this time of year,you know, with football, college
football in the NFL being soprominent, you know looking at
who and what are the big storiescoming up will be.
(11:35):
That's usually how we set theday.
Sometimes it just depends onwhat pops up on the news cycle,
but usually we have a good ideaof, you know, a certain player
is unhappy with their contract,or you know anything the Dallas
Cowboys or the Los AngelesLakers do.
You know that's usuallysomething we can cover pretty
(11:59):
easily.
But yeah, usually it depends onthe news cycle.
And, and I think also, I don'tknow if we all do this, I hope
we do but you know, just kind ofkeeping a general eye on
everything, like just knowing,like okay, if this team wins
tonight, they'll make theplayoffs, or this team has has
won nine in a row and the recordis 11.
(12:22):
So let's, let's keep an eye onthat.
And then you know there arepersonalities that are just
always worth covering these days, like Caitlin Clark.
Anything she does, you know,she's back.
I don't know if I mentionedCaitlin Clark.
Anything she does, she's backin practice.
Angela Tuell (12:35):
so we'll cover that.
I'm in Indianapolis, so oh,okay, all right.
We actually saw her at dinnerthe other night.
Really we were the only ones inthe rooms together and we
noticed that this table wasbeing really loud her and her
boyfriend and one other personshe wasn't, but you know and
when she stood up we're lookingat her and we're like that's she
saw us just staring and shesmiled and waved at us.
Ian Casselberry (12:55):
It's really nice because she knew probably
as we were looking at her Wasthat sort of the moment where,
like, sometimes you'll seesomebody famous in public but
you can't quite place where youremember them from.
Like I remember seeing a newsreporter once at a restaurant
I'm like I know her fromsomewhere and I kept looking at
her and finally she looked overat me like what is your problem?
Right and I thought oh allright, yes, she's a news
(13:18):
reporter, I will stop lookingover there.
Angela Tuell (13:20):
And you see someone like that who's so
famous that it doesn't registerthat she looks like such a
typical normal person, you know,and I just, I don't know,
imagining she was much tallerthan she was or that sort of
thing, so yeah, oh, that wouldhave been great.
Ian Casselberry (13:35):
I thought you'd be taller.
Angela Tuell (13:36):
Right.
So how many stories do youtypically write a week, or is it
a day?
Ian Casselberry (13:44):
Oh gosh, it depends on the day and the news
cycle.
Of course Some stories, youknow, generate follow-ups very
quickly, like I said beforedrilling down on a story.
But for me, typically I feellike it's a good day if I get
four stories in an eight-hourday.
So it's typically 20 to 25stories a week.
(14:08):
Sometimes it's more if thestories are real short and to
the point and occasionally it'sless if you're able to write a
little longer, like a reactionor analysis piece.
But yeah, I'd say about 20 to25 a week.
Angela Tuell (14:24):
Okay, so do you work with publicists?
Often Are they typicallypitching you or you know what's
your interaction.
Ian Casselberry (14:31):
I don't work as much with them at Yahoo because
really we're just we areanswering or responding to the
news cycle.
I do get plenty of emails frompublicists and media reps about
that sort of thing.
I I work with them much morewhen I worked when I covered
(14:52):
sports media, because often youknow what they were trying to
pitch is something that Ithought would make for a good
story and it would serve ouraudience.
Um, unfortunately and I oftenfeel bad about this is that what
I am being pitched just isn'tsomething, um, that I would get
to um in in the course of theday or that would serve our
(15:15):
audience.
And I try to respond andimpress upon the person Because
I know they have a job to do aswell, of course.
So, yeah, I don't get to workwith public relations as much,
but sometimes it works outreally well.
Like the Cleveland Cavaliersbasketball team.
(15:37):
But sometimes sometimes itworks out really well Like um,
the Cleveland Cavaliersbasketball team, for instance.
You know they, they kind of tooka step up and were really
successful last season and Iended up writing more stories
about them just as a consequenceof that and their, their people
reached out to me.
So you know we enjoy the stuffyou're writing.
You're writing a lot about them, you know.
Would you like some moreinformation, or would you like
(15:58):
to, you know, cover these sortsof stories?
This is what we're doing.
So I mean, I guess in mycurrent situation that's, that's
an ideal circumstance when itjust kind of meshes like that.
Angela Tuell (16:10):
Yeah, how does Yahoo Sports work?
I mean, there are otherjournalists that I'm assuming
that are assigned to beatsoutside of breaking right that
take on from the stories thatyou guys write like here's the
breaking news, and then theyelaborate further as stories are
needed If they're covering thatbeat.
Ian Casselberry (16:28):
Yeah, yeah, we, we, yeah, we have our breaking
news team and then, like eachindividual sport, hasists or
people who might, they mightwrite news stories as well, but
concentrated more on that sport.
So I kind of think of it as likewe take the immediate thing.
(16:49):
You know, lebron James signs anew contract and then a
columnist will come in and say,okay, this is what this means,
this is how likely it is thatyou know lebron will play for
the lakers for the next fiveyears, or how does this affect
their ability to put together ateam?
So, yeah, there are a lot of um, uh, columnists, uh, that work
(17:12):
on individual sports.
And then with yahoo, yahoo,yahoo Sports is making more of a
push into original video andpodcasting, which I'm not really
a part of that, but it is abigger thrust of the entire
operation which you know.
Now we'll have a daily sportsprogram, a daily or, you know, a
(17:38):
weekly basketball program, aweekly football program, just
trying to reach audiences inpodcasting or people who you
know increasingly watch onYouTube and things like Roku.
That's a bigger part of theoperation recently.
Angela Tuell (17:57):
Yeah, I can imagine that that's definitely
growing.
When you started with Yahoo,what were you surprised to learn
?
Ian Casselberry (18:05):
You know it was a struggle to write what.
What does trending mean?
I mean, breaking news is prettyself-explanatory, probably.
But trending looking at GoogleTrends and resources like
ChartBeat to see what people areclicking and searching for, I
(18:37):
had to learn that maybe the moreesoteric stories or things that
I thought would be funny didn'tnecessarily have an audience at
Yahoo.
That's changed.
I think we've all had to learn.
Our team is relatively new interms of new editors taking over
and new writers coming on, sothat was the hardest part.
(18:58):
And then just knowing thatYahoo is such a big resource in
terms of search engine and soforth, so things you write are
going to be picked up by theYahoo Sports front page or
ideally they're picked up by thefront page and just trying to
(19:20):
write to that audience.
That's I mean.
You asked what I learned atdifferent stops and I think
that's, with each step, justlearning that OK you are, you
have to write to what theaudience wants rather than what
you think is interesting.
Angela Tuell (19:37):
Yes, absolutely.
That's the challenging part ofa journalist's job sometimes.
Ian Casselberry (19:42):
Yeah.
Angela Tuell (19:43):
Does AI play a role in your work?
Ian Casselberry (19:46):
It doesn't.
There is some, I believe.
Yahoo uses AI to transcribepodcasts for people who can't
listen or watch.
You know that they can read thetranscript, but in terms of our
writing and editing process, AIhas no role.
Angela Tuell (20:06):
Yeah, that's a very interesting area With many.
We see some outlets using itfor, like you said, you know,
transcribing or even just introsto articles or planning
purposes.
So we'll see where it all goes.
Ian Casselberry (20:21):
Absolutely, and you know people are ready to
pounce on it too if they findout.
You know like, oh, we heardthat Yahoo or Sports Illustrated
is using AI.
You know that's crazy.
And then you know, a lot oftimes I mean it's not my job
necessarily, but if someone asksI'll answer, but you know
that's something that we have torespond to, and then you know
(20:42):
what people's idea of what AIwould be also is that it doesn't
mean AI is writing the story,but maybe they help us do
research or something like that.
That's a tool, not the maindriver of stories.
Angela Tuell (20:59):
Right, absolutely.
I must ask do you still lovesports?
I know many times whensomething you know is our job.
It's not as much of a hobbyanymore as it was.
Ian Casselberry (21:11):
I do love sports and that is something I
mean.
You're so right.
I mean, when it becomes work,it's something that is just your
job and maybe you feel the needto get away from and I'm sure
this applies in plenty of otherbeats and areas in journalism as
well see some sports writerswho don't seem to love sports or
(21:35):
don't seem to watch sports, andI think it affects their
coverage especially, maybe, asthey get older.
I do still love sports.
I mean, to me that is the fuel,that is the juice, as they said
in Heat of what gets, uh, whatgets me going on writing is that
(21:56):
I still love.
I still love writing about thesports.
I still love conveying, justlike you know, do you realize
how amazing what that person didis?
You know, like you can't dothat in your driveway.
So, uh, yeah, I still lovesports.
Maybe I don't watch as muchwhen I'm not working, just to
(22:16):
get a little bit of a break fromit, but I mean I'm still.
I'm watching Michigan footballand the Detroit Lions when I'm
not working.
I still love.
Angela Tuell (22:26):
I still love my teams, yeah yeah, football is
probably the favorite now Mostof my writing has been baseball.
Ian Casselberry (22:38):
Baseball is a favorite, yeah, I enjoy all of
them.
I enjoy, yeah, my local sportsteams especially.
Angela Tuell (22:46):
That's awesome.
Yeah, we talked a little bit inthe beginning about having such
a sustainable, long career injournalism so far, and it has to
be one of your proudestachievements.
It's very something that wedon't see a lot.
You know, there really are alot of journalists that love to
leave the field.
How do you think you've managedto stay in journalism and be so
(23:08):
successful?
Ian Casselberry (23:10):
Some of it is just stubbornness, I suppose,
like I don't know what else I'mgoing to do or could do.
I have thought.
You know it has been a struggleat times to think okay how can
these skills be applied in adifferent area?
And, honestly, if we'd beenhaving this conversation two,
(23:31):
maybe three years ago, I mean Iwasn't sure if I was going to
stay in journalism.
Um, so I, I was very luckilylucky to catch on with sports
illustrated and then, uh, yahoo,I've been fortunate enough, um,
you know, to have a really um,supportive family, um,
circumstances have worked outwhere maybe I was able to a
(23:54):
chance where others might not.
But I think also, you know,struggling and making very
little money or working day jobsaround journalism also sort of
instilled a little bit of a workethic that somebody who just
goes straight, you know, whogoes straight out of college and
(24:17):
never really had to worry aboutworking a retail job or
something like that, aperspective that people like
that might not have.
Angela Tuell (24:26):
Yes.
Ian Casselberry (24:27):
And I think I mean I'm not in the position of
hiring anybody, but, like when Ilook at somebody's resume on
LinkedIn, for instance, I mean Isome people might say like, oh,
you know, they've been workingat a coffee shop all throughout
college.
What do they know aboutjournalism?
I said, well, you know, thatperson knows about working with
a team, they know about workingwith managers, they know about
(24:49):
working with customers, andthose skills can be applied to
journalism.
And I think that very oftenneeds to be taken into
consideration, more than howmany Twitter followers they have
, for instance.
Angela Tuell (25:00):
Yes, you have to be able to talk to people, yes,
and talk not just over, notdigitally always, but you have
to be able to have thoseconversations.
That's a main skill ofjournalism.
Ian Casselberry (25:12):
Absolutely and yeah, I think that's a skill not
enough.
Young writers learn not justtalking to subjects, but working
with editors and takingconstructive feedback.
Hopefully the feedback isconstructive, right and just
learning how to you know thatit's not a slight against you.
(25:34):
Necessarily.
They're trying to help you getbetter or pointing out where you
need to improve.
Angela Tuell (25:39):
Yeah, so what do you hope the future holds for
you professionally?
Ian Casselberry (25:44):
Oh gosh.
I mean we talked about thedifferent jobs at Yahoo.
Being a columnist on aparticular sport or beat would
be fantastic.
I don't know if that's in thecards or not.
Like many of your guests, Iwould certainly love to write a
(26:04):
book, bouncing around plenty ofideas.
I would love to write a memoirabout my mother, for instance.
She grew up in Malaysia.
She wanted to originally becomea nun and then she she left
Malaysia to come to America whenshe met my father in the Peace
(26:26):
Corps and I just.
there's so many stories therenot just that I want to tell
people, but I want to learnmyself in having those
conversations with my mother,and this is something,
unfortunately, I've talked aboutfor like 10 years and haven't
I've only really dipped my toein and I really hope to have an
opportunity to work on somethinglike that in the future.
Angela Tuell (26:48):
That's something you just have to start doing so
it doesn't get too late, right.
Ian Casselberry (26:52):
Yes, that is exactly before it gets too late.
Yes, yes, use a recorder.
You don, that is exactly beforeit gets too late.
Angela Tuell (26:55):
Yes, yes, use a recorder.
You don't even have to startwriting yet, right, you could
just record it all in.
Ian Casselberry (27:02):
Right, I just you know, just get used to me
having my phone in your face.
Angela Tuell (27:05):
Right, exactly, it's so natural.
So how can our listenersconnect with you online?
Ian Casselberry (27:13):
I am on all of the uh popular social media
platforms um.
Blue sky and instagram andfacebook are probably um my
preferred or or uh most funoutlets um I'm ian cass on all
of those outlets.
I-a-n-c-a-s-s um I am ontwitter and threads, but I don't
(27:35):
use those outlets as much.
I mean, I will respond ifanyone were to reach out, but I
just don't update those thoseplatforms very much.
I am on TikTok, but I am not.
I am not active on TikTok.
I don't feel my dance skillsare strong enough yet, much to
the disappointment of my nieces.
Angela Tuell (27:57):
Right, I'm sure.
Ian Casselberry (28:00):
But yeah, that's how I can connect with
people.
Angela Tuell (28:04):
Wonderful and your blog is still active.
Ian Casselberry (28:08):
Not as active as I'd like it to be.
The blogging for Yahoo takes upso much time and then I have
time off.
I just don't have the energy orthe interest.
I'm trying to keep it up.
It is important to me to writeabout different things and, as I
said earlier, my personalwriting has always been a way of
(28:29):
keeping up with my friends.
Really, I feel like I write formy friends more than anybody
else.
Friends, really, I feel like Iwrite for my friends more than
anybody else, and I think it'simportant to use writing muscles
that I don't always get to usewhen covering sports or even
just to see how you know how Iapproach sports could be applied
to something else, like writingabout arts and culture.
Angela Tuell (28:51):
Right.
Ian Casselberry (28:51):
Yeah.
Angela Tuell (28:52):
Yeah, your skills are not only in sports, even
though it may feel like itsometimes, right?
Ian Casselberry (28:58):
Right, I have multitudes.
Angela Tuell (29:00):
Well, thank you so much, Ian.
Ian Casselberry (29:02):
Thank you so much for having me on your
podcast, Angela.
This has been great.
Angela Tuell (29:06):
That's all for this episode of Media in Minutes
, a podcast by CommunicationsRedefined.
Take a moment to rate, reviewand subscribe to our show.
We'd love to hear what youthink you can find more at
communicationsredefinedcom slashpodcast.
I'm your host, Angela Tuell.
Talk to you next time.
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