What happens when a successful lawyer decides to follow her passion for storytelling and takes her family on a year-long journey around the world? Heather Greenwood Davis shares this remarkable story of transformation, revealing how visiting 29 countries across six continents with her husband and young sons forever changed their perspective on what matters in life.
As the first Black woman to have travel columns in both of Canada's national newspapers, Heather brings a refreshing authenticity to travel journalism. She discusses her unconventional career path from journalism school to law practice to award-winning travel writer, explaining how becoming a mother prompted her to reassess her professional direction and ultimately return to her first love – storytelling.
The heart of our conversation explores how Heather approaches travel narratives differently. Rather than deciding on stories before arrival, she allows destinations to reveal themselves organically, focusing on human connections that transcend cultural differences. Whether giving her child a timeout on a mountain in Peru or discovering Portugal before it became trendy, her experiences highlight universal truths about family, connection and personal growth.
We also delve into the practical aspects of travel journalism – from the challenges of group press trips to the current political climate affecting cross-border reporting. Heather provides candid insights about working with PR professionals, maintaining one's authentic voice and finding meaning through global exploration. Despite her public persona across print, television and digital platforms, she reveals she's actually an introvert who carefully balances engagement with necessary personal recharging time.
Connect with Heather on Instagram @byheatherGD or through her website www.heathergreenwooddavis.com to follow her continuing adventures in global storytelling that bridge cultures and celebrate our shared humanity.
Please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe to the Media in Minutes podcast here or anywhere you get your podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/media-in-minutes/id1555710662
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Angela Tuell (00:05):
Welcome to Media in Minutes.
This is your host, Angela Tuell.
This podcast features in-depthinterviews with those who report
on the world around us.
They share everything fromtheir favorite stories to what
happened behind the lens andgive us a glimpse into their
world From our studio here atCommunications Redefined.
This is Media in Minutes.
On today's episode, we aretalking with Heather Greenwood
(00:32):
Davis.
Heather is a trailblazer.
She is the first Black woman tohave a travel column in both of
Canada's national newspapers,the Toronto Star and the Globe
and Mail.
For more than 20 years, she'stold travel stories that
encourage parents to raiseglobal citizens without
sacrificing their own traveldreams, and has led by example.
Her features appear in NationalGeographic, where she has been
(00:54):
a contributing editor,contributing writer and
columnist, afar Travel andLeisure, condé Nast Traveler.
Heather has appeared on andhosted travel segments on
television shows across NorthAmerica, including CTV's, the
Social, chch Morning Live, goodMorning America and CBS Sunday
Morning.
(01:14):
Among her many accolades,national Geographic's 2012
Travelers of the Year Honor,awarded to her family after
their year-long non-stop familytrip around the world, remains
her most treasured.
Heather lives in Toronto,canada, with her husband and has
two sons.
Hello, heather.
Hi Thank you so much for joiningus today.
(01:37):
I have to say I'm personallysuper excited to talk with you.
Can we start from the year-longnonstop family trip around the
world?
Heather Greenwood Davis (01:50):
For those who aren't familiar.
Angela Tuell (01:52):
Please tell us more.
Heather Greenwood Davis (01:54):
Happily .
Happily, it's one of the bestthings I've done in my life, so
I could talk about it ad nauseum.
In 2011 through 2012, it wasJune to June my husband and I
took our kids, ethan and Cameron, who were six and eight at the
time, out of school for a yearand we traveled the world.
(02:14):
We hit 29 countries on sixcontinents, and the goal of it
wasn't necessarily like to seeas much as we could see, but to
really sort of expand theirunderstanding of the world
really and to make sure theyunderstood that the world was
bigger than their schoolyard.
I don't know, you know, whenwe're kids, we all think you
know the kid at school whodoesn't like us, or the teacher
(02:36):
who isn't giving us the mark wewant, like, this is the whole
world right?
It has such an impact on livesand we wanted to take them out
of that and sort of broadentheir idea of what matters, and
it worked.
So for me I was a travel writerat the time it was a great
opportunity for me to go furtherwith young kids.
(02:56):
Usually I had to rush back fromany trip or not stay too long,
because I had young kids at homeand now they'd be with me so we
could go as far as we wanted.
And my husband was on a prepaidsabbatical, so he works for the
local health municipality hereand he was able to sort of work
ahead.
(03:16):
So for four years before weleft he worked extra time but
banked the pay for that.
So they didn't pay him for thatuntil the year he took off work
.
So we had an income comingthrough and I was working as a
travel writer through that yearand, yeah, we got to see all
these incredible places.
Angela Tuell (03:36):
Wow, so it was four years in the planning.
Heather Greenwood Davis (03:39):
It was yeah, it was actually a lot
longer than four years in theplanning or in the dreaming.
Let's say but, but.
And then it was four yearswhere we knew it was going to
happen, but always with an out.
If we at any point during thattime thought, you know, the kids
needed something different orwe needed the money he needed to
work, then we could havepostponed it or canceled it or
(04:00):
got our money back earlier orwhatever we needed.
So, planning in earnest as wewent, we left home with just
tickets across Canada, into andout of South America, into China
and out of China and everythingelse we did from the road.
Angela Tuell (04:19):
Wow, that is really impressive.
What were some of the bestlessons you learned during the
time, and is there anything youwould have done differently?
Heather Greenwood Davis (04:29):
Yeah, lesson wise.
You know, I knew that it wasgoing to be good for my family.
I just in my gut thought it wasa good idea to do it, but I
really I can't stress enough howmuch it impacted our
relationships.
We it really sort of cementedour knowledge of who we can
(04:50):
depend on.
That respect is at thecornerstone of how we treat each
other.
You know who matters most inour lives and we.
You know my kids are now 21.
21, nope, 20, yeah, 21, almost21 and almost 23.
(05:15):
And so I've seen these kidsgrow into adults and we still
have that relationship.
It's still a very close-knitfamily.
So that was definitely a lesson.
I think on the trip we learnedthat kids can handle a lot more
than we think they can.
I think on the trip we learnedthat kids can handle a lot more
than we think they can.
Yes, and the world is anexcellent teacher because it's
an opportunity to touch and feeland ask questions no-transcript
(06:01):
.
So having that space from thethings that you've always known,
I think is great for all of us.
Angela Tuell (06:07):
Yes, how long did you stay places?
Was it always different?
Heather Greenwood Davis (06:11):
Yeah, it was always different.
I mean, the longest time wespent in a country, we spent six
weeks in India, and that youknow, if you've been to India or
know of India, it's a drop inthe bucket for what you could do
in exploring India.
So I never say that I've.
Like you know, I'm not one ofthose people who country counts
or who says like I've done India, we did a great deal of it, we
(06:34):
visited a great deal of it, butthere's, you know there's.
There's no way I've I'vechecked India off any list.
Angela Tuell (06:41):
Sure, were there some destinations that surprised
you or that you'd recommend youknow ahead of others.
To to other people.
Heather Greenwood Davis (06:50):
You know I fell in love with
Portugal on this trip.
So and this was like 2011, no2012.
So it was before, sort of like.
Right now, portugal is hot,everybody, you know, in love
with it and moving there, and itwas long before that started.
It was very much a less visitedcountry and off everyone's
(07:11):
radar and it was sort of thishappy accident that led us there
.
We weren't supposed to go there,we were supposed to go to
Greece, and this whole trip wasabout following the sun and it
was going to be too cold inGreece at the time we were going
, so we just tried to find, youknow what's the southernmost
place we can get to quickly,where we have a shot at some
(07:33):
sunshine and warmth this comingfrom, you know, north of the
border and it was Portugal and Iabsolutely we were supposed to
spend two days just as sort of aturnaround and figure out our
next stop, and we ended up therefor two weeks.
I've gone back many, many timessince and just absolutely love
it, and I think that experiencewith Portugal as a surprise has
(07:55):
sort of framed how I approachtravel as a whole, which is
basically that you know, everyplace has the possibility of
surprising you, and I try not torule things out.
Angela Tuell (08:08):
That's great.
That's some good advice,definitely so let's take a step
back to talk about you, yourbackground.
How did you get into travelwriting?
Was your training in journalism?
Heather Greenwood Davis (08:19):
Yeah, so I did a journalism degree at
Carleton University in Ottawa.
So I did a journalism degree atCarleton University in Ottawa.
I, as a kid I wanted to be ajournalist, like I always knew
that I wanted to write andfollowed that through.
I was the kid who, like I thinkI, started a newspaper in grade
four.
I know I started a newspaper ingrade four.
I, you know, worked at the highschool paper.
(08:41):
I worked for the community paperand eventually went to
university for it and thenworked at the Toronto Star for a
year and then once at the endof that year by you know a story
that would take far too long totell you now.
But I ended up going to lawschool and spent the three years
in law school barely going toclass and very much acting as a
(09:05):
stringer for the paper there, soreporting on things.
This was in Windsor, ontario,just across from Detroit, and I
spent most of my time sort offocusing on writing stories for
the paper back in Toronto whileI was there.
And then I was probably two orthree years into practicing law
(09:26):
when I had my oldest, my firstson, and once I had him that was
sort of the first time.
It was a big, busy law firm andthat was probably the first
time that I sort of lookedaround and said I'm in the wrong
place.
Angela Tuell (09:41):
So you even made it.
I mean you were working as alawyer.
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, becauseit it.
Heather Greenwood Davis (09:44):
I mean you were working as a lawyer,
yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, becauseit's a bit of a treadmill right
or a hamster wheel is really.
You get on and you don't reallylook left or right until
something forces you to stop.
And for me that was a pregnancyand suddenly I realized I was
in the wrong spot and I sort ofbegan to find my way out.
So by 2007, I was a full-timefreelancer.
Angela Tuell (10:07):
Wow, so you went from that straight and did you
go and do travel writing rightaway.
Heather Greenwood Davis (10:11):
Yeah, and I mean I'm sure you know
this, but, like you know, yes,but also anything and everything
, right?
Angela Tuell (10:20):
You would take anything Right.
Heather Greenwood Davis (10:22):
So I wrote all kinds of things.
So I wrote a lot of things anda lot of my career has been this
way, where I really do sort ofmind my own life.
And so I had been a lawyer andI was moving back into writing,
so I wrote for legalpublications, right, like it
made sense to do that sort ofthing.
Angela Tuell (10:41):
Yeah, and now you write for the top travel outlets
and are also a travel expert onTV.
Can you tell us what your focusis currently?
You know all the differentplaces we can find you online.
Print TV Sure.
Heather Greenwood Davis (10:55):
So I like to share stories from the
places I've visited.
So that's key.
I'm not typically someone whosits at home and writes about
places.
That's key.
I'm not typically someone whosits at home and writes about
places.
I like to introduce people topeople who are just like them,
but the circumstances they're inmight be slightly different.
So I like when my stories areteaching people or opening
people to the idea that, oh, Ican relate to that person in
(11:19):
that place, even though I alwaysthought those people were
different than me.
I like when my stories offer aperspective that maybe someone
didn't have access to before.
You know, is it whether it's,you know, a history that you
weren't taught in school or alesson that you know, you, you,
(11:42):
you can relate to, but it'shappening in a different place?
I guess an example of thatwould be you know, I always talk
about the fact that when wewere on our trip around the
world, I gave my kid a timeouton a mountain in Peru and people
, you know, yeah, I'm in Peru,I'm in this gorgeous setting,
I'm on at Ollantaytambo.
I'm sure I messed that up and Ihad to basically use my body as
(12:07):
a shield to allow people tomake their way around the
mountain while I was keepingthis kid in timeout.
But I still had to parent himthen and there it was my
youngest and he was sort ofrunning along the edge Right.
Angela Tuell (12:20):
You had to keep him safe alive.
Heather Greenwood Davis (12:22):
Right, and so people were like, oh my
gosh, you can give, you givetimeouts.
You're on this world trip andyou're giving.
I'm like, yeah, you still haveto parent, and every parent can
relate to that feeling, butprobably every parent hasn't
done it on a mountain right.
So it's just taking things thatpeople are familiar with and
trying to weave narratives thathelp them remember that I'm just
(12:43):
like them.
I'm someone who's probablygrown up in similar
circumstances to them and I'mout in the world and meeting
people and enjoying it andlearning new things all the time
, and so so can they.
I'll add that on TV I do a lotof that, but I also do a lot of
(13:05):
hotel coverage and I do a lot of.
I'm on two main shows.
One's called the Social on CTV,which is kind of like the
Canadian version of the Viewthat's how I describe it and I
do travel for them and the otherone is a morning show here in
Toronto, chch Morning Live.
That I do regularly, but then Ialso do, you know, sometimes
I'm doing sharing on SMTs, orI'm doing branded content in
(13:28):
places, or people are asking formy expertise on other newsy
topics.
So it really varies.
Angela Tuell (13:34):
Yes, no.
No day is the same.
I loved is in preparing for ourinterview.
I saw something you said that Ilove.
You said that you can listen tothe stories people need to
share and tell the stories thatpeople need to hear, and that's
exactly what you were justsaying.
Can you give us some examplesof some of your favorite stories
(13:54):
you've written?
Heather Greenwood Davis (13:56):
Oh, wow .
Angela Tuell (13:56):
Well, that's a tough one.
Heather Greenwood Davis (13:58):
I know, I, I, there's one coming out.
You know how it is.
I'm sure that, like, thesethings take occupy space in my
brain and I love them as I'mputting together and I lovingly
send them out into the world andthen I have to move to the next
one, um, the ones that live inmy brain, um are often ones that
(14:18):
, uh, have recently come through.
So I know there's a storycoming out shortly about an
experience I had in Churchill,manitoba, where I basically
befriended a little boy who wason this trip with us, this
family travel trip.
Boy who was on this trip withus, this family travel trip, not
(14:40):
my child, another child, andyou know, he, you know, clearly
loved me.
We got on great, but he justcould never remember my name.
How old was this child oh, Ithink he was four or five, okay,
you know, but like it wouldreach for my hands and every, at
(15:00):
every moment and was like it'sjust a great experience, but it
was.
So you know, the story sort oftalks about Churchill, manitoba,
which is, you know, home to thepolar bears and has some some
great cultural and indigenousofferings out there as well, but
sort of through the lens ofthis experience with this
stranger who became a good buddyof mine, and how we navigate
(15:23):
that experience separately andtogether.
So you know, it's sort of that.
I feel like people need tounderstand that you can, I need
to see that you're having thesekinds of connections in the
world, you know, and thatthey're like I would have never
met this kid in any others, orhis family, which who are
wonderful in any othercircumstance.
(15:44):
So I don't know if that answersthe question, but those are the
kinds of stories that thatstick with me.
You know, not every person Imeet ends up in a story of their
own, but I don't think there'sanyone I've met who hasn't
impacted the way I tell a story,because you just can't interact
with people in their homes andnot feel some responsibility to
(16:05):
look at a place like from theirlens, or at least a lens other
than your own, and so I thinkthat the stories I do tell are
always indirectly impacted bythose experiences, even if it's
not that direct an impact.
Angela Tuell (16:19):
Yeah, that's what makes them so wonderful to read.
Where will that story be?
Heather Greenwood Davis (16:23):
That one's coming in Zoomer magazine,
so that's a Canadian magazinesort of aimed at almost like an
AARP type of audience.
Angela Tuell (16:31):
Oh, okay, okay, great.
So what are you most proud ofprofessionally in your career so
far?
I know you've won lots ofawards.
Heather Greenwood Davis (16:40):
Oh yeah , it's funny, I don't even think
of the awards first when youask that question.
That might be telling, butawards wise, there's two that
stand out.
One is you know, when we cameback from that year around the
world, we were named NationalGeographic Travelers.
When we came back from thatyear around the world, we were
named National GeographicTravelers Travelers of the Year
(17:04):
in 2012.
We were among a group that werenamed, but we were named as a
family and that was reallyimportant to me that all four of
us you know our team was wasgot that award.
That was really big.
And in 2020, you know just assort of the pandemic was rolling
in 2020, you know just as sortof the pandemic was rolling in
the Family Travel Associationnamed me as a person of the year
and having worked with thatthat organization from its, you
(17:25):
know, conception really that wasthat was really important to me
.
But, honestly, the thing I'mmost proud of professionally is
my reputation, you know, and I'mproud of the fact that I think
good things are often said aboutme when I'm not in the room.
I think that's great and I'malso really proud of the fact
(17:46):
that I think I've always had agood sense of what my voice is
when I'm writing, and I don'tthink I've had to trade that to
be more successful.
Angela Tuell (17:56):
Yeah, you can't ask for anything better, right?
Heather Greenwood Davis (17:58):
Right.
Angela Tuell (17:59):
So how do you choose your next story?
Heather Greenwood Davis (18:03):
These days they choose me.
Okay, at least the settings,sort of.
You know where I'm going totell.
That story often chooses me.
You know, when I'm out.
Once I'm out in a destination,I'll often know in my gut when I
found the story.
Somebody says something, or Ihave some experience, or
(18:24):
something goes off the railslike those are often the best
ones.
But I try not to decide beforeI go somewhere exactly what the
story will be.
I might know, you know, somepossibilities for stories that
could come out of that.
You know some straightforwardoh, this would be good in a
roundup.
Or I'm going to this hotel andit's brand new and I'm writing
(18:46):
about a new hotel, so it's goingto have its own feature.
But in terms of, I really likewhen I arrive in a place and the
place just sort of settles intome and I get a sense of, oh,
you know, somebody sayssomething and it's like oh, I
know, this is, this, is thestory that needs to be told from
here.
Angela Tuell (19:04):
Yeah, so then how do you choose your next
destination?
Heather Greenwood Davis (19:08):
They choose me.
It's, it's, it's um, how do Ichoose them?
Honestly, at this stage of thegame, often it's somewhere I
haven't been, unless there's areally good reason to return to
a place, and often it is.
(19:30):
You know, if I'm inconversation, for example, with
the publicist and they're sayingto me they're able to provide
me with a reason that's new,unique, novel, that's always
helpful in deciding where to go.
But, yeah, often it's placesyou know, like recently, most
recently, I was in Tobago, rightTrinidad and Tobago.
(19:54):
Tobago has just been one ofthose places that I don't hear a
lot about and that is alwaysintriguing to me if I'm like
well, how come nobody's talkingabout this place?
And you know how come?
It's only people who are fromthere that are telling me how
great it is, let me go see.
So those places always call tome.
But, yeah, I'm always I'minterested in places that where
people are.
I'm always I'm interested inplaces that where people are.
(20:17):
So everywhere.
Angela Tuell (20:20):
Great answer how often are you traveling these
days?
Heather Greenwood Davis (20:23):
Wow, last year I was really not.
So last year I was probablygoing two and a half to three
weeks a month.
It was my kids, I was an emptynester and sort of jumped in
with both feet.
I regretted that by January ofthis year and so I've slowed
down quite a bit.
So I would say, well, this yearI've taken five trips and
(20:48):
probably been away from homemaybe four and a half weeks
total, and I'm home for the restof this month and much of next
month.
So I'd probably take a trip amonth, you know, and maybe
there's a month off somewhere inthere, yeah, next month.
So I probably take a trip amonth, you know, and maybe
there's a month off somewhere inthere.
Angela Tuell (21:00):
Yeah, okay.
So it's good to be moreselective for our own well-being
, right.
Heather Greenwood Davis (21:05):
Yeah, burnout and career.
Angela Tuell (21:06):
Right, yeah, do you have preferences on hosted
trips or advice for those of uswanting to bring you to a
destination?
Besides the new?
I love that advice on.
You know something's new ordifferent, but any other advice?
Heather Greenwood Davis (21:19):
Oh, so much advice.
I don't do a ton of press tripsand the reason I don't do like
group press trips, the reason Idon't do that, I'm sure I've
been well documented, Like youknow.
Oftentimes it requires you tomove en masse as a group and you
know what I need might not bewhat someone else's need, or
we're going to move off of astory before I sort of get what
(21:40):
I need.
Might not be what someoneelse's need, or we're gonna move
off of a story before I sort ofget what I need.
And so I find the group presstrips tend to only be good for
roundup types of stories orreally broad strokes,
overreaching story, right Like astory just about this place
(22:01):
exists and there are 6 millionthings to do, Right.
But the types of stories Iwrite tend to be deeper, right,
Narrative.
Something has to happen, therehas to be time for that to
happen and a group press tripprobably isn't the right way for
that.
So often I'm either doing, youknow, partnering with or
suggesting another writer that Ican travel with someone I know
(22:23):
we're not competing for outletsand who I know writes in a
different way than I do and, asyou know, we're not going to be
competing for stories.
Even if we tell the same storyis going to be told in two very
different ways.
So either I'll suggest that orI'll go on my own if that's what
the story dictates.
Or I've often, you know a lotof the work.
I'll go on my own if that'swhat the story dictates, or I've
(22:44):
often, you know a lot of thework I've done.
Even outside of that year longtrip around the world is around
family travel, and for me,family travel has never been
sort of defined.
As you know, two parents, twokids and Disney World Like
nothing wrong with Disney World,but absolutely it's always been
a mix.
I've traveled with just myyounger brother as adults.
(23:07):
I've traveled with my mom.
Recently we did a trip to Paristogether and that's the stories
that have come out of that areeverything from, you know,
accessibility travel so you'retraveling with a senior and and
learning about what their needsmight be on a trip where you
didn't think about that beforeto mother-daughter relationships
, to what's it like for you knowthis immigrant woman, my mom,
(23:29):
who immigrated from Jamaica many, many years ago and dreamed of
Paris versus me, who's sort ofgrown up thinking of it as like
totally available and accessible, so it allows for different
types of storytelling that Ithink make the destination more
relatable.
So I would just say overall, Iguess my advice is that be open
(23:50):
to having conversations with theperson you want on the trip to
see what might actually work,Because if you admire the work
that they put out, they want tomake sure you're creating an
environment where that'spossible.
Angela Tuell (24:02):
Absolutely.
Heather Greenwood Davis (24:02):
And group press trips.
For me don't often, don't oftendo that.
Angela Tuell (24:06):
Yes, yes, absolutely.
How often are you writing forAmerican versus Canadian outlets
?
Is it kind of split or whatwould you say it is yeah.
Heather Greenwood Davis (24:17):
I'd say like up to yeah, probably still
.
I probably now write about 80percent for American
publications.
Ok, in part because theCanadian publications there
aren't as many, right, and theyaren't, quite frankly, they
don't pay as well.
Ok, and I don't think theAmerican publications pay as
(24:37):
well as they could.
Angela Tuell (24:38):
I was going to say they don't pay that well either
.
Right.
Heather Greenwood Davis (24:42):
But but Canadian publications
definitely aren, definitelyaren't even there.
So you know, from a financialbusiness point of view it makes
more sense for me to write forAmerican publications, but I do
love the stuff we have here andso you know I started in
newspapers, I still write fornewspapers if I find stories
that are particularly compellingfor them.
(25:02):
And I write for a bunch ofCanadian magazines, depending on
what the story is.
Angela Tuell (25:07):
Okay, and then, of course, the Canadian TV that we
talked about.
Heather Greenwood Davis (25:09):
And then Canadian TV right.
Angela Tuell (25:11):
Yeah.
So aside from press trips, howcan PR professionals best help
you do your job?
Or pet peeves, we could gothere too.
Heather Greenwood Davis (25:19):
Yeah, I think the way for them to help
me do my job.
Let's just say that I get a lotof emails, yeah, and I get it
because I understand that thepressures are, you know, not
necessarily coming internallyfrom from a publicist's office,
that they're coming from theclient, right from the client.
(25:46):
Right, somebody wants you tosend me regular updates about
their soft linens and the personwho's moved into the general
manager position, but honestly,I'm not reading those right,
like it's's.
I have to get through all manyemails without a good purpose,
(26:30):
right, and I, I, you know, I'm,I know, you know Sarah
Greaves-Gabiton.
She and I have, over the lastlittle while, actually gone into
some publicist offices andtried to speak to publicists
about, you know, some of thethings that we think, you know,
the three portions of us themedia, the publicist and the
(26:52):
client we all are sort of tryingto work together to, you know,
do the same thing and yet oftenjournalists and publicists and
clients aren't talking about howto make that better.
So I appreciate the questionbecause and that's why I could
go on forever about it but thereare a lot of things that I
think you just don't and I don'tmean you, but just generally,
(27:13):
people don't understand aboutthe way writers work, and so
they.
If I get into the habit ofsimply sliding across and
deleting an email because I knowthat you know 99.9% of the time
it's an email that's not goingto be of use to me, then nobody
wins right?
Like, absolutely want to get tothe stories and information
(27:39):
that you have that can be usefulto all of us, but it's often
buried under emails that are ofless use.
So I think that would be thenumber one one and I think the
way to combat that is because Ialso have a lot of leeway.
Listen, I've been on the presstrips where we all know we're
going to visit the something.
(28:01):
I won't even name a particularoutlet that is only because
there's been so much pressure onthe publicist to make sure
people see that thing, and I getthat.
I'm like, yeah, I will be themost amenable trooper as we go
to see this thing that we allknow I'm never, ever going to
write about to a point, right,and that's how I feel about the
(28:22):
emails.
Of course you're going to haveto send some emails because the
client requires it, but it'sjust that sometimes it can be
too much, and especially if it'snever being peppered with
emails that suggest that youknow what I write about or how I
write, or you've given somethought to how that story might
be great for me.
And the other thing I'll justsay about the emails trust me
(28:44):
emails I could for an hour wecould talk.
The thing I'll say about theemails is and I've had editor
after editor repeat this is ifyou are sending out a pitch or
an idea for a trip or what haveyou, and you are really blasting
it to everyone, I almost haveto not consider it just for that
(29:05):
fact so if it's not addressedto me, if it's addressed to a
group and I'm CC'd or whateverthat might be, it becomes of
less viability.
It becomes less viable for mebecause if my editor has also
received that email and then I'mpitching it, they think I'm
lazy, right, like I've seen this, or it feels tired before it's
(29:28):
actually tired because they'relike oh no, I've seen this now
60 times from all the writers Iwork with.
That means somebody out thereis doing it.
I'm going to stay, you know,six feet away.
So I think you really have tobe super strategic when it comes
to that, believe it or not.
That was a short answer.
Angela Tuell (29:44):
No, that was great , and we need to think about
that every day as publicists.
For sure I don't.
This is not a fun topic, but Ido need to go back to where we
mentioned, you know, theCanadian American outlets, since
you are Canadian.
I must ask if the currentpolitical climate in the US is
affecting your work orrelationships.
Heather Greenwood Da (30:10):
Absolutely it is, and I have no problem
answering that question becauseI wish it weren't so.
I wish it wasn't the case thatit was, but it's impacting on a
number of levels.
There is no Canadian outlet Iwork for Television.
We didn't even mention radio.
I do radio print online.
There's no outlet at this timein Canada that I work for that
is open to stories about UStravel destinations.
Angela Tuell (30:36):
Wow, that's incredible.
Heather Greenwood Davis (30:38):
I mean I part.
Yes, there has been sort ofthis rise of a patriotic, you
know, stand together typementality among some.
But I think also there is areal fear about crossing the
border and whether it's safeanymore.
A major impact on consumers andreaders and the push to not
(31:08):
have that sort of you knowfilling up the pages of
newspapers and magazines ortelevision shows is coming from
the consumer.
I don't think this is just aneditorial decision.
I think there's real pushbackwhen something shows up that is
an American destination andthat's what they're reacting to.
So for Canadian outlets, it'sdefinitely been a problem.
(31:30):
For me who writes for Americanoutlets as well, my ability to
come across to trade shows likeIPW or IMM or luxury conferences
or whatever that may behappening this year, becomes
impeded because I'm a feelunsafe.
You know I'm not as secure incrossing the border as I did, so
(31:51):
it also means I can't writeabout those things because I'm
not experiencing them.
For the publications that cantake them.
Now listen, there are tons ofAmerican travel writers who can
do that job, so it's not likeI'm.
I'm saying you know thoseplaces will be missing, but
personally, yeah, it's reallysad to me that I've had to rule
(32:12):
out a whole section of workbecause of I.
I simply don't feel safe enoughto cross the border.
Angela Tuell (32:20):
Oh, my goodness, I really don't know what to say.
I wish I did, but I'm sorry.
Heather Greenwood Davis (32:24):
Yeah, I just hope that we can get back,
you know, sooner than later, toa space where we were.
I hope we can recapture it andI hope it's not too damaged by
the time you know it's availableto us again.
I still love all my Americanfriends.
You know I get that a lot andlike I want to make it clear, if
(32:45):
I haven't, that I personalpersonal belief systems and what
have you.
But I've yet to hear anyone say, like you know, I'm anti
(33:08):
American, as in the people.
So people should feelcompletely welcome and safe
crossing the border, coming here, you know, and should feel
secure.
That you know.
Nobody is that I, you know Ican't speak for everyone, but I
think I think most people are.
What we're talking about is isa system of government.
Angela Tuell (33:29):
Right and knowing that it was, it's half the
people that agree with it andhalf that don't right Right
Right.
Or maybe not the exact split,but yeah.
Heather Greenwood Davis (33:37):
Yeah.
Angela Tuell (33:38):
So asking something a little fun before we
go, I'd love to know somethingabout you that might surprise us
or that many people don't know.
Heather Greenwood Davis (33:48):
Yeah, I don't know if it'll surprise
people who've seen me hidingbehind a potted plant, but I am
an introvert.
Angela Tuell (33:55):
Okay.
No, you don't sound like one.
Heather Greenwood Davis (33:58):
Oh yeah , it's funny, I'm an introvert.
I also am like I'm not a phoneperson.
I am most comfortable behindyou know my words behind my
keyboard, but I do.
I love speaking to an audience,I give keynotes, I speak at
conferences.
I'm super comfortable in frontof a camera camera but I am a
(34:27):
person who definitely needs torecharge a social battery and
yeah.
Angela Tuell (34:29):
So maybe that'll surprise people.
I don't know it will.
You had me fooled too.
Watching a broadcast isfantastic, although you know,
when I was a TV journalist Icould do well.
You said you could do keynotespeakers, but I could do the
camera great, but then if it wasa large audience that was
definitely harder for me.
But the camera wouldn't botherat all.
Heather Greenwood Davis (34:45):
So yeah , I get nervous always for those
kinds of things TV or or livebut somehow once it starts a
minute and then it's fine.
Angela Tuell (34:54):
It's a good thing.
The nerves you know a littlebit before it.
So how can our listenersconnect with you online?
Heather Greenwood Davis (35:00):
I'm on Instagram far more than I should
be and that's at by Heather GDB-Y.
Heather GD.
Email hgreenwooddavis atgmailcom.
My site isheathergreenwooddaviscom.
Angela Tuell (35:13):
Wonderful.
Thank you so much for your time, Heather.
Heather Greenwood Davis (35:16):
Thank you.
Angela Tuell (35:18):
That's all for this episode of Media in Minutes
, a podcast by CommunicationsRedefined.
Take a moment to rate, reviewand subscribe to our show.
We'd love to hear what youthink you can find more at
communicationsredefinedcom slashpodcast.
I'm your host, Angela Tuell.
Talk to you next time.
Welcome to Media in Minutes.
This is your host, Angela Tuell.
This podcast features in-depthinterviews with those who report
on the world around us.
They share everything fromtheir favorite stories to what
happened behind the lens andgive us a glimpse into their
world From our studio here atCommunications Redefined.
This is Media in Minutes.
On today's episode, we aretalking with Heather Greenwood
(00:32):
Davis.
Heather is a trailblazer.
She is the first Black woman tohave a travel column in both of
Canada's national newspapers,the Toronto Star and the Globe
and Mail.
For more than 20 years, she'stold travel stories that
encourage parents to raiseglobal citizens without
sacrificing their own traveldreams, and has led by example.
Her features appear in NationalGeographic, where she has been
(00:54):
a contributing editor,contributing writer and
columnist, afar Travel andLeisure, condé Nast Traveler.
Heather has appeared on andhosted travel segments on
television shows across NorthAmerica, including CTV's, the
Social, chch Morning Live, goodMorning America and CBS Sunday
Morning.
(01:14):
Among her many accolades,national Geographic's 2012
Travelers of the Year Honor,awarded to her family after
their year-long non-stop familytrip around the world, remains
her most treasured.
Heather lives in Toronto,canada, with her husband and has
two sons.
Hello, heather.
Hi Thank you so much for joiningus today.
(01:37):
I have to say I'm personallysuper excited to talk with you.
Can we start from the year-longnonstop family trip around the
world?
Heather Greenwood Davis (01:50):
For those who aren't familiar.
Angela Tuell (01:52):
Please tell us more.
Heather Greenwood Davis (01:54):
Happily .
Happily, it's one of the bestthings I've done in my life, so
I could talk about it ad nauseum.
In 2011 through 2012, it wasJune to June my husband and I
took our kids, ethan and Cameron, who were six and eight at the
time, out of school for a yearand we traveled the world.
(02:14):
We hit 29 countries on sixcontinents, and the goal of it
wasn't necessarily like to seeas much as we could see, but to
really sort of expand theirunderstanding of the world
really and to make sure theyunderstood that the world was
bigger than their schoolyard.
I don't know, you know, whenwe're kids, we all think you
know the kid at school whodoesn't like us, or the teacher
(02:36):
who isn't giving us the mark wewant, like, this is the whole
world right?
It has such an impact on livesand we wanted to take them out
of that and sort of broadentheir idea of what matters, and
it worked.
So for me I was a travel writerat the time it was a great
opportunity for me to go furtherwith young kids.
(02:56):
Usually I had to rush back fromany trip or not stay too long,
because I had young kids at homeand now they'd be with me so we
could go as far as we wanted.
And my husband was on a prepaidsabbatical, so he works for the
local health municipality hereand he was able to sort of work
ahead.
(03:16):
So for four years before weleft he worked extra time but
banked the pay for that.
So they didn't pay him for thatuntil the year he took off work
.
So we had an income comingthrough and I was working as a
travel writer through that yearand, yeah, we got to see all
these incredible places.
Angela Tuell (03:36):
Wow, so it was four years in the planning.
Heather Greenwood Davis (03:39):
It was yeah, it was actually a lot
longer than four years in theplanning or in the dreaming.
Let's say but, but.
And then it was four yearswhere we knew it was going to
happen, but always with an out.
If we at any point during thattime thought, you know, the kids
needed something different orwe needed the money he needed to
work, then we could havepostponed it or canceled it or
(04:00):
got our money back earlier orwhatever we needed.
So, planning in earnest as wewent, we left home with just
tickets across Canada, into andout of South America, into China
and out of China and everythingelse we did from the road.
Angela Tuell (04:19):
Wow, that is really impressive.
What were some of the bestlessons you learned during the
time, and is there anything youwould have done differently?
Heather Greenwood Davis (04:29):
Yeah, lesson wise.
You know, I knew that it wasgoing to be good for my family.
I just in my gut thought it wasa good idea to do it, but I
really I can't stress enough howmuch it impacted our
relationships.
We it really sort of cementedour knowledge of who we can
(04:50):
depend on.
That respect is at thecornerstone of how we treat each
other.
You know who matters most inour lives and we.
You know my kids are now 21.
21, nope, 20, yeah, 21, almost21 and almost 23.
(05:15):
And so I've seen these kidsgrow into adults and we still
have that relationship.
It's still a very close-knitfamily.
So that was definitely a lesson.
I think on the trip we learnedthat kids can handle a lot more
than we think they can.
I think on the trip we learnedthat kids can handle a lot more
than we think they can.
Yes, and the world is anexcellent teacher because it's
an opportunity to touch and feeland ask questions no-transcript
(06:01):
.
So having that space from thethings that you've always known,
I think is great for all of us.
Angela Tuell (06:07):
Yes, how long did you stay places?
Was it always different?
Heather Greenwood Davis (06:11):
Yeah, it was always different.
I mean, the longest time wespent in a country, we spent six
weeks in India, and that youknow, if you've been to India or
know of India, it's a drop inthe bucket for what you could do
in exploring India.
So I never say that I've.
Like you know, I'm not one ofthose people who country counts
or who says like I've done India, we did a great deal of it, we
(06:34):
visited a great deal of it, butthere's, you know there's.
There's no way I've I'vechecked India off any list.
Angela Tuell (06:41):
Sure, were there some destinations that surprised
you or that you'd recommend youknow ahead of others.
To to other people.
Heather Greenwood Davis (06:50):
You know I fell in love with
Portugal on this trip.
So and this was like 2011, no2012.
So it was before, sort of like.
Right now, portugal is hot,everybody, you know, in love
with it and moving there, and itwas long before that started.
It was very much a less visitedcountry and off everyone's
(07:11):
radar and it was sort of thishappy accident that led us there
.
We weren't supposed to go there,we were supposed to go to
Greece, and this whole trip wasabout following the sun and it
was going to be too cold inGreece at the time we were going
, so we just tried to find, youknow what's the southernmost
place we can get to quickly,where we have a shot at some
(07:33):
sunshine and warmth this comingfrom, you know, north of the
border and it was Portugal and Iabsolutely we were supposed to
spend two days just as sort of aturnaround and figure out our
next stop, and we ended up therefor two weeks.
I've gone back many, many timessince and just absolutely love
it, and I think that experiencewith Portugal as a surprise has
(07:55):
sort of framed how I approachtravel as a whole, which is
basically that you know, everyplace has the possibility of
surprising you, and I try not torule things out.
Angela Tuell (08:08):
That's great.
That's some good advice,definitely so let's take a step
back to talk about you, yourbackground.
How did you get into travelwriting?
Was your training in journalism?
Heather Greenwood Davis (08:19):
Yeah, so I did a journalism degree at
Carleton University in Ottawa.
So I did a journalism degree atCarleton University in Ottawa.
I, as a kid I wanted to be ajournalist, like I always knew
that I wanted to write andfollowed that through.
I was the kid who, like I thinkI, started a newspaper in grade
four.
I know I started a newspaper ingrade four.
I, you know, worked at the highschool paper.
(08:41):
I worked for the community paperand eventually went to
university for it and thenworked at the Toronto Star for a
year and then once at the endof that year by you know a story
that would take far too long totell you now.
But I ended up going to lawschool and spent the three years
in law school barely going toclass and very much acting as a
(09:05):
stringer for the paper there, soreporting on things.
This was in Windsor, ontario,just across from Detroit, and I
spent most of my time sort offocusing on writing stories for
the paper back in Toronto whileI was there.
And then I was probably two orthree years into practicing law
(09:26):
when I had my oldest, my firstson, and once I had him that was
sort of the first time.
It was a big, busy law firm andthat was probably the first
time that I sort of lookedaround and said I'm in the wrong
place.
Angela Tuell (09:41):
So you even made it.
I mean you were working as alawyer.
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, becauseit it.
Heather Greenwood Davis (09:44):
I mean you were working as a lawyer,
yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, becauseit's a bit of a treadmill right
or a hamster wheel is really.
You get on and you don't reallylook left or right until
something forces you to stop.
And for me that was a pregnancyand suddenly I realized I was
in the wrong spot and I sort ofbegan to find my way out.
So by 2007, I was a full-timefreelancer.
Angela Tuell (10:07):
Wow, so you went from that straight and did you
go and do travel writing rightaway.
Heather Greenwood Davis (10:11):
Yeah, and I mean I'm sure you know
this, but, like you know, yes,but also anything and everything
, right?
Angela Tuell (10:20):
You would take anything Right.
Heather Greenwood Davis (10:22):
So I wrote all kinds of things.
So I wrote a lot of things anda lot of my career has been this
way, where I really do sort ofmind my own life.
And so I had been a lawyer andI was moving back into writing,
so I wrote for legalpublications, right, like it
made sense to do that sort ofthing.
Angela Tuell (10:41):
Yeah, and now you write for the top travel outlets
and are also a travel expert onTV.
Can you tell us what your focusis currently?
You know all the differentplaces we can find you online.
Print TV Sure.
Heather Greenwood Davis (10:55):
So I like to share stories from the
places I've visited.
So that's key.
I'm not typically someone whosits at home and writes about
places.
That's key.
I'm not typically someone whosits at home and writes about
places.
I like to introduce people topeople who are just like them,
but the circumstances they're inmight be slightly different.
So I like when my stories areteaching people or opening
people to the idea that, oh, Ican relate to that person in
(11:19):
that place, even though I alwaysthought those people were
different than me.
I like when my stories offer aperspective that maybe someone
didn't have access to before.
You know, is it whether it's,you know, a history that you
weren't taught in school or alesson that you know, you, you,
(11:42):
you can relate to, but it'shappening in a different place?
I guess an example of thatwould be you know, I always talk
about the fact that when wewere on our trip around the
world, I gave my kid a timeouton a mountain in Peru and people
, you know, yeah, I'm in Peru,I'm in this gorgeous setting,
I'm on at Ollantaytambo.
I'm sure I messed that up and Ihad to basically use my body as
(12:07):
a shield to allow people tomake their way around the
mountain while I was keepingthis kid in timeout.
But I still had to parent himthen and there it was my
youngest and he was sort ofrunning along the edge Right.
Angela Tuell (12:20):
You had to keep him safe alive.
Heather Greenwood Davis (12:22):
Right, and so people were like, oh my
gosh, you can give, you givetimeouts.
You're on this world trip andyou're giving.
I'm like, yeah, you still haveto parent, and every parent can
relate to that feeling, butprobably every parent hasn't
done it on a mountain right.
So it's just taking things thatpeople are familiar with and
trying to weave narratives thathelp them remember that I'm just
(12:43):
like them.
I'm someone who's probablygrown up in similar
circumstances to them and I'mout in the world and meeting
people and enjoying it andlearning new things all the time
, and so so can they.
I'll add that on TV I do a lotof that, but I also do a lot of
(13:05):
hotel coverage and I do a lot of.
I'm on two main shows.
One's called the Social on CTV,which is kind of like the
Canadian version of the Viewthat's how I describe it and I
do travel for them and the otherone is a morning show here in
Toronto, chch Morning Live.
That I do regularly, but then Ialso do, you know, sometimes
I'm doing sharing on SMTs, orI'm doing branded content in
(13:28):
places, or people are asking formy expertise on other newsy
topics.
So it really varies.
Angela Tuell (13:34):
Yes, no.
No day is the same.
I loved is in preparing for ourinterview.
I saw something you said that Ilove.
You said that you can listen tothe stories people need to
share and tell the stories thatpeople need to hear, and that's
exactly what you were justsaying.
Can you give us some examplesof some of your favorite stories
(13:54):
you've written?
Heather Greenwood Davis (13:56):
Oh, wow .
Angela Tuell (13:56):
Well, that's a tough one.
Heather Greenwood Davis (13:58):
I know, I, I, there's one coming out.
You know how it is.
I'm sure that, like, thesethings take occupy space in my
brain and I love them as I'mputting together and I lovingly
send them out into the world andthen I have to move to the next
one, um, the ones that live inmy brain, um are often ones that
(14:18):
, uh, have recently come through.
So I know there's a storycoming out shortly about an
experience I had in Churchill,manitoba, where I basically
befriended a little boy who wason this trip with us, this
family travel trip.
Boy who was on this trip withus, this family travel trip, not
(14:40):
my child, another child, andyou know, he, you know, clearly
loved me.
We got on great, but he justcould never remember my name.
How old was this child oh, Ithink he was four or five, okay,
you know, but like it wouldreach for my hands and every, at
(15:00):
every moment and was like it'sjust a great experience, but it
was.
So you know, the story sort oftalks about Churchill, manitoba,
which is, you know, home to thepolar bears and has some some
great cultural and indigenousofferings out there as well, but
sort of through the lens ofthis experience with this
stranger who became a good buddyof mine, and how we navigate
(15:23):
that experience separately andtogether.
So you know, it's sort of that.
I feel like people need tounderstand that you can, I need
to see that you're having thesekinds of connections in the
world, you know, and thatthey're like I would have never
met this kid in any others, orhis family, which who are
wonderful in any othercircumstance.
(15:44):
So I don't know if that answersthe question, but those are the
kinds of stories that thatstick with me.
You know, not every person Imeet ends up in a story of their
own, but I don't think there'sanyone I've met who hasn't
impacted the way I tell a story,because you just can't interact
with people in their homes andnot feel some responsibility to
(16:05):
look at a place like from theirlens, or at least a lens other
than your own, and so I thinkthat the stories I do tell are
always indirectly impacted bythose experiences, even if it's
not that direct an impact.
Angela Tuell (16:19):
Yeah, that's what makes them so wonderful to read.
Where will that story be?
Heather Greenwood Davis (16:23):
That one's coming in Zoomer magazine,
so that's a Canadian magazinesort of aimed at almost like an
AARP type of audience.
Angela Tuell (16:31):
Oh, okay, okay, great.
So what are you most proud ofprofessionally in your career so
far?
I know you've won lots ofawards.
Heather Greenwood Davis (16:40):
Oh yeah , it's funny, I don't even think
of the awards first when youask that question.
That might be telling, butawards wise, there's two that
stand out.
One is you know, when we cameback from that year around the
world, we were named NationalGeographic Travelers.
When we came back from thatyear around the world, we were
named National GeographicTravelers Travelers of the Year
(17:04):
in 2012.
We were among a group that werenamed, but we were named as a
family and that was reallyimportant to me that all four of
us you know our team was wasgot that award.
That was really big.
And in 2020, you know just assort of the pandemic was rolling
in 2020, you know just as sortof the pandemic was rolling in
the Family Travel Associationnamed me as a person of the year
and having worked with thatthat organization from its, you
(17:25):
know, conception really that wasthat was really important to me
.
But, honestly, the thing I'mmost proud of professionally is
my reputation, you know, and I'mproud of the fact that I think
good things are often said aboutme when I'm not in the room.
I think that's great and I'malso really proud of the fact
(17:46):
that I think I've always had agood sense of what my voice is
when I'm writing, and I don'tthink I've had to trade that to
be more successful.
Angela Tuell (17:56):
Yeah, you can't ask for anything better, right?
Heather Greenwood Davis (17:58):
Right.
Angela Tuell (17:59):
So how do you choose your next story?
Heather Greenwood Davis (18:03):
These days they choose me.
Okay, at least the settings,sort of.
You know where I'm going totell.
That story often chooses me.
You know, when I'm out.
Once I'm out in a destination,I'll often know in my gut when I
found the story.
Somebody says something, or Ihave some experience, or
(18:24):
something goes off the railslike those are often the best
ones.
But I try not to decide beforeI go somewhere exactly what the
story will be.
I might know, you know, somepossibilities for stories that
could come out of that.
You know some straightforwardoh, this would be good in a
roundup.
Or I'm going to this hotel andit's brand new and I'm writing
(18:46):
about a new hotel, so it's goingto have its own feature.
But in terms of, I really likewhen I arrive in a place and the
place just sort of settles intome and I get a sense of, oh,
you know, somebody sayssomething and it's like oh, I
know, this is, this, is thestory that needs to be told from
here.
Angela Tuell (19:04):
Yeah, so then how do you choose your next
destination?
Heather Greenwood Davis (19:08):
They choose me.
It's, it's, it's um, how do Ichoose them?
Honestly, at this stage of thegame, often it's somewhere I
haven't been, unless there's areally good reason to return to
a place, and often it is.
(19:30):
You know, if I'm inconversation, for example, with
the publicist and they're sayingto me they're able to provide
me with a reason that's new,unique, novel, that's always
helpful in deciding where to go.
But, yeah, often it's placesyou know, like recently, most
recently, I was in Tobago, rightTrinidad and Tobago.
(19:54):
Tobago has just been one ofthose places that I don't hear a
lot about and that is alwaysintriguing to me if I'm like
well, how come nobody's talkingabout this place?
And you know how come?
It's only people who are fromthere that are telling me how
great it is, let me go see.
So those places always call tome.
But, yeah, I'm always I'minterested in places that where
people are.
I'm always I'm interested inplaces that where people are.
(20:17):
So everywhere.
Angela Tuell (20:20):
Great answer how often are you traveling these
days?
Heather Greenwood Davis (20:23):
Wow, last year I was really not.
So last year I was probablygoing two and a half to three
weeks a month.
It was my kids, I was an emptynester and sort of jumped in
with both feet.
I regretted that by January ofthis year and so I've slowed
down quite a bit.
So I would say, well, this yearI've taken five trips and
(20:48):
probably been away from homemaybe four and a half weeks
total, and I'm home for the restof this month and much of next
month.
So I'd probably take a trip amonth, you know, and maybe
there's a month off somewhere inthere, yeah, next month.
So I probably take a trip amonth, you know, and maybe
there's a month off somewhere inthere.
Angela Tuell (21:00):
Yeah, okay.
So it's good to be moreselective for our own well-being
, right.
Heather Greenwood Davis (21:05):
Yeah, burnout and career.
Angela Tuell (21:06):
Right, yeah, do you have preferences on hosted
trips or advice for those of uswanting to bring you to a
destination?
Besides the new?
I love that advice on.
You know something's new ordifferent, but any other advice?
Heather Greenwood Davis (21:19):
Oh, so much advice.
I don't do a ton of press tripsand the reason I don't do like
group press trips, the reason Idon't do that, I'm sure I've
been well documented, Like youknow.
Oftentimes it requires you tomove en masse as a group and you
know what I need might not bewhat someone else's need, or
we're going to move off of astory before I sort of get what
(21:40):
I need.
Might not be what someoneelse's need, or we're gonna move
off of a story before I sort ofget what I need.
And so I find the group presstrips tend to only be good for
roundup types of stories orreally broad strokes,
overreaching story, right Like astory just about this place
(22:01):
exists and there are 6 millionthings to do, Right.
But the types of stories Iwrite tend to be deeper, right,
Narrative.
Something has to happen, therehas to be time for that to
happen and a group press tripprobably isn't the right way for
that.
So often I'm either doing, youknow, partnering with or
suggesting another writer that Ican travel with someone I know
(22:23):
we're not competing for outletsand who I know writes in a
different way than I do and, asyou know, we're not going to be
competing for stories.
Even if we tell the same storyis going to be told in two very
different ways.
So either I'll suggest that orI'll go on my own if that's what
the story dictates.
Or I've often, you know a lotof the work.
I'll go on my own if that'swhat the story dictates, or I've
(22:44):
often, you know a lot of thework I've done.
Even outside of that year longtrip around the world is around
family travel, and for me,family travel has never been
sort of defined.
As you know, two parents, twokids and Disney World Like
nothing wrong with Disney World,but absolutely it's always been
a mix.
I've traveled with just myyounger brother as adults.
(23:07):
I've traveled with my mom.
Recently we did a trip to Paristogether and that's the stories
that have come out of that areeverything from, you know,
accessibility travel so you'retraveling with a senior and and
learning about what their needsmight be on a trip where you
didn't think about that beforeto mother-daughter relationships
, to what's it like for you knowthis immigrant woman, my mom,
(23:29):
who immigrated from Jamaica many, many years ago and dreamed of
Paris versus me, who's sort ofgrown up thinking of it as like
totally available and accessible, so it allows for different
types of storytelling that Ithink make the destination more
relatable.
So I would just say overall, Iguess my advice is that be open
(23:50):
to having conversations with theperson you want on the trip to
see what might actually work,Because if you admire the work
that they put out, they want tomake sure you're creating an
environment where that'spossible.
Angela Tuell (24:02):
Absolutely.
Heather Greenwood Davis (24:02):
And group press trips.
For me don't often, don't oftendo that.
Angela Tuell (24:06):
Yes, yes, absolutely.
How often are you writing forAmerican versus Canadian outlets
?
Is it kind of split or whatwould you say it is yeah.
Heather Greenwood Davis (24:17):
I'd say like up to yeah, probably still
.
I probably now write about 80percent for American
publications.
Ok, in part because theCanadian publications there
aren't as many, right, and theyaren't, quite frankly, they
don't pay as well.
Ok, and I don't think theAmerican publications pay as
(24:37):
well as they could.
Angela Tuell (24:38):
I was going to say they don't pay that well either
.
Right.
Heather Greenwood Davis (24:42):
But but Canadian publications
definitely aren, definitelyaren't even there.
So you know, from a financialbusiness point of view it makes
more sense for me to write forAmerican publications, but I do
love the stuff we have here andso you know I started in
newspapers, I still write fornewspapers if I find stories
that are particularly compellingfor them.
(25:02):
And I write for a bunch ofCanadian magazines, depending on
what the story is.
Angela Tuell (25:07):
Okay, and then, of course, the Canadian TV that we
talked about.
Heather Greenwood Davis (25:09):
And then Canadian TV right.
Angela Tuell (25:11):
Yeah.
So aside from press trips, howcan PR professionals best help
you do your job?
Or pet peeves, we could gothere too.
Heather Greenwood Davis (25:19):
Yeah, I think the way for them to help
me do my job.
Let's just say that I get a lotof emails, yeah, and I get it
because I understand that thepressures are, you know, not
necessarily coming internallyfrom from a publicist's office,
that they're coming from theclient, right from the client.
(25:46):
Right, somebody wants you tosend me regular updates about
their soft linens and the personwho's moved into the general
manager position, but honestly,I'm not reading those right,
like it's's.
I have to get through all manyemails without a good purpose,
(26:30):
right, and I, I, you know, I'm,I know, you know Sarah
Greaves-Gabiton.
She and I have, over the lastlittle while, actually gone into
some publicist offices andtried to speak to publicists
about, you know, some of thethings that we think, you know,
the three portions of us themedia, the publicist and the
(26:52):
client we all are sort of tryingto work together to, you know,
do the same thing and yet oftenjournalists and publicists and
clients aren't talking about howto make that better.
So I appreciate the questionbecause and that's why I could
go on forever about it but thereare a lot of things that I
think you just don't and I don'tmean you, but just generally,
(27:13):
people don't understand aboutthe way writers work, and so
they.
If I get into the habit ofsimply sliding across and
deleting an email because I knowthat you know 99.9% of the time
it's an email that's not goingto be of use to me, then nobody
wins right?
Like, absolutely want to get tothe stories and information
(27:39):
that you have that can be usefulto all of us, but it's often
buried under emails that are ofless use.
So I think that would be thenumber one one and I think the
way to combat that is because Ialso have a lot of leeway.
Listen, I've been on the presstrips where we all know we're
going to visit the something.
(28:01):
I won't even name a particularoutlet that is only because
there's been so much pressure onthe publicist to make sure
people see that thing, and I getthat.
I'm like, yeah, I will be themost amenable trooper as we go
to see this thing that we allknow I'm never, ever going to
write about to a point, right,and that's how I feel about the
(28:22):
emails.
Of course you're going to haveto send some emails because the
client requires it, but it'sjust that sometimes it can be
too much, and especially if it'snever being peppered with
emails that suggest that youknow what I write about or how I
write, or you've given somethought to how that story might
be great for me.
And the other thing I'll justsay about the emails trust me
(28:44):
emails I could for an hour wecould talk.
The thing I'll say about theemails is and I've had editor
after editor repeat this is ifyou are sending out a pitch or
an idea for a trip or what haveyou, and you are really blasting
it to everyone, I almost haveto not consider it just for that
(29:05):
fact so if it's not addressedto me, if it's addressed to a
group and I'm CC'd or whateverthat might be, it becomes of
less viability.
It becomes less viable for mebecause if my editor has also
received that email and then I'mpitching it, they think I'm
lazy, right, like I've seen this, or it feels tired before it's
(29:28):
actually tired because they'relike oh no, I've seen this now
60 times from all the writers Iwork with.
That means somebody out thereis doing it.
I'm going to stay, you know,six feet away.
So I think you really have tobe super strategic when it comes
to that, believe it or not.
That was a short answer.
Angela Tuell (29:44):
No, that was great , and we need to think about
that every day as publicists.
For sure I don't.
This is not a fun topic, but Ido need to go back to where we
mentioned, you know, theCanadian American outlets, since
you are Canadian.
I must ask if the currentpolitical climate in the US is
affecting your work orrelationships.
Heather Greenwood Da (30:10):
Absolutely it is, and I have no problem
answering that question becauseI wish it weren't so.
I wish it wasn't the case thatit was, but it's impacting on a
number of levels.
There is no Canadian outlet Iwork for Television.
We didn't even mention radio.
I do radio print online.
There's no outlet at this timein Canada that I work for that
is open to stories about UStravel destinations.
Angela Tuell (30:36):
Wow, that's incredible.
Heather Greenwood Davis (30:38):
I mean I part.
Yes, there has been sort ofthis rise of a patriotic, you
know, stand together typementality among some.
But I think also there is areal fear about crossing the
border and whether it's safeanymore.
A major impact on consumers andreaders and the push to not
(31:08):
have that sort of you knowfilling up the pages of
newspapers and magazines ortelevision shows is coming from
the consumer.
I don't think this is just aneditorial decision.
I think there's real pushbackwhen something shows up that is
an American destination andthat's what they're reacting to.
So for Canadian outlets, it'sdefinitely been a problem.
(31:30):
For me who writes for Americanoutlets as well, my ability to
come across to trade shows likeIPW or IMM or luxury conferences
or whatever that may behappening this year, becomes
impeded because I'm a feelunsafe.
You know I'm not as secure incrossing the border as I did, so
(31:51):
it also means I can't writeabout those things because I'm
not experiencing them.
For the publications that cantake them.
Now listen, there are tons ofAmerican travel writers who can
do that job, so it's not likeI'm.
I'm saying you know thoseplaces will be missing, but
personally, yeah, it's reallysad to me that I've had to rule
(32:12):
out a whole section of workbecause of I.
I simply don't feel safe enoughto cross the border.
Angela Tuell (32:20):
Oh, my goodness, I really don't know what to say.
I wish I did, but I'm sorry.
Heather Greenwood Davis (32:24):
Yeah, I just hope that we can get back,
you know, sooner than later, toa space where we were.
I hope we can recapture it andI hope it's not too damaged by
the time you know it's availableto us again.
I still love all my Americanfriends.
You know I get that a lot andlike I want to make it clear, if
(32:45):
I haven't, that I personalpersonal belief systems and what
have you.
But I've yet to hear anyone say, like you know, I'm anti
(33:08):
American, as in the people.
So people should feelcompletely welcome and safe
crossing the border, coming here, you know, and should feel
secure.
That you know.
Nobody is that I, you know Ican't speak for everyone, but I
think I think most people are.
What we're talking about is isa system of government.
Angela Tuell (33:29):
Right and knowing that it was, it's half the
people that agree with it andhalf that don't right Right
Right.
Or maybe not the exact split,but yeah.
Heather Greenwood Davis (33:37):
Yeah.
Angela Tuell (33:38):
So asking something a little fun before we
go, I'd love to know somethingabout you that might surprise us
or that many people don't know.
Heather Greenwood Davis (33:48):
Yeah, I don't know if it'll surprise
people who've seen me hidingbehind a potted plant, but I am
an introvert.
Angela Tuell (33:55):
Okay.
No, you don't sound like one.
Heather Greenwood Davis (33:58):
Oh yeah , it's funny, I'm an introvert.
I also am like I'm not a phoneperson.
I am most comfortable behindyou know my words behind my
keyboard, but I do.
I love speaking to an audience,I give keynotes, I speak at
conferences.
I'm super comfortable in frontof a camera camera but I am a
(34:27):
person who definitely needs torecharge a social battery and
yeah.
Angela Tuell (34:29):
So maybe that'll surprise people.
I don't know it will.
You had me fooled too.
Watching a broadcast isfantastic, although you know,
when I was a TV journalist Icould do well.
You said you could do keynotespeakers, but I could do the
camera great, but then if it wasa large audience that was
definitely harder for me.
But the camera wouldn't botherat all.
Heather Greenwood Davis (34:45):
So yeah , I get nervous always for those
kinds of things TV or or livebut somehow once it starts a
minute and then it's fine.
Angela Tuell (34:54):
It's a good thing.
The nerves you know a littlebit before it.
So how can our listenersconnect with you online?
Heather Greenwood Davis (35:00):
I'm on Instagram far more than I should
be and that's at by Heather GDB-Y.
Heather GD.
Email hgreenwooddavis atgmailcom.
My site isheathergreenwooddaviscom.
Angela Tuell (35:13):
Wonderful.
Thank you so much for your time, Heather.
Heather Greenwood Davis (35:16):
Thank you.
Angela Tuell (35:18):
That's all for this episode of Media in Minutes
, a podcast by CommunicationsRedefined.
Take a moment to rate, reviewand subscribe to our show.
We'd love to hear what youthink you can find more at
communicationsredefinedcom slashpodcast.
I'm your host, Angela Tuell.
Talk to you next time.
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