July 30, 2025 • 35 mins
Catherine Connelly's remarkable journey began at age 15 when she and her siblings created a digital yearbook website to make friends at their new high school. What started as a simple solution to a teenage problem evolved into a social platform that would eventually sell for $500 million.
During our conversation, Catherine shares how despite having no coding background, she and her siblings built their platform by using Google to answer every question they had about website development—from "how to buy a domain name" to creating specification sheets for developers. This resourcefulness, combined with early exposure to entrepreneurship through her older brother's success, gave her the confidence to pursue her idea without waiting to acquire all the necessary skills first.
The evolution of her platform offers fascinating lessons in adaptation and growth strategy. When their initial plan to expand high school by high school didn't work, they pivoted to acquiring viral quizzes that brought users from MySpace and AIM. Later, they rode the Facebook app wave before successfully transitioning to mobile and eventually pioneering livestreaming features with virtual gifting economies years before they became mainstream.
What's particularly striking about Catherine's story is her perspective on success and work environments. After leaving the company she built for 18 years, she authored "Designing Success," which explores how anyone can create environments where they can thrive without burning out. She challenges us to define success on our own terms—not just through career achievements but through family, community involvement, and personal well-being.
Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur or someone seeking better balance in your career, Catherine's parting advice resonates deeply: "Just go for it. Waiting until you feel ready is often waiting too long." Through her newsletter "Growing Up Startup" and monthly office hours, she continues to share wisdom that helps others design their own paths to success.
This podcast is proudly sponsored by USC Annenberg’s Master of Science in Digital Media Management (MSDMM) program. An online master’s designed to prepare practitioners to understand the evolving media landscape, make data-driven and ethical decisions, and build a more equitable future by leading diverse teams with the technical, artistic, analytical, and production skills needed to create engaging content and technologies for the global marketplace. Learn more or apply today at https://dmm.usc.edu.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Mediascape insights from digital
changemakers, a speaker seriesand podcast brought to you by
USC Annenberg's Digital MediaManagement Program.
Join us as we unlock thesecrets to success in an
increasingly digital world.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I'm so excited to have this conversation with
Catherine Connolly, who I'vebeen getting to know over these
past few months.
Catherine, I've read your bookDesigning Success a bestseller
and I think that thisconversation is going to be
really inspirational for ourstudents and our alums at USC.
So thank you for being here.
Thank you so much for having me.
(00:41):
So this podcast, mediascape, issponsored by the Digital Media
Management Program.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm like, yes, we have to haveyou on and talk about this,
(01:02):
because you created a product atthe age of 15 with your
siblings and had a verysuccessful time exited.
I want you to share a littlebit about that journey with this
audience and then we can talkabout how you're using that for
good now to inspire others.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah, that sounds great.
Yes, so my company started backwhen I was 15, as you mentioned
, my brother and I were actuallynew in our school, so we were
trying to make new friends and Iguess we had a underlying bit
of nerdiness about us and we'relike, why don't we make a
website to do that?
And so the idea was a websitethat would make meeting new
people fun.
That would be kind of like adigital yearbook where you would
(01:39):
learn more about eachindividual classmate, and so we
called it my Yearbook, andindividual classmates and so we
called it my Yearbook.
And for that to be what we wereworking on would have been a
certainly was a shock to likeeveryone that knew us, because
we weren't coders Like we havethe typical amount of, you know,
tech skills of any other highschool student.
You know we were on MySpace, wehad AIM profiles, which were,
(02:00):
you know the platforms of thetime, but you know, we didn't
really have any qualificationsto start a website.
It's not like we were the kidsthat were doing coding boot
camps or something like that,but what we did have was our
oldest brother had started hisfirst company from his Harvard
dorm room and he grew upsuccessfully, had a successful
exit.
And so we grew up because he's11 years older than me, so we
(02:22):
grew up watching him do that andthinking, you know, why can't
we start our own thing?
You know Jeff did and so kindof moving into it.
That's very important earlyexposure to entrepreneurship.
That made it so that when we hadan idea, we're like why not
build it?
But of course we didn't knowhow to do it.
So that's when we started.
(02:43):
Really we used Google to bekind of the age equalizer.
We Googled literally anyquestion you could have about.
You know like even like youknow how to buy a domain name,
things like that.
Like what does a specificationsheet look like?
Because, yeah, we're talking todevelopers on Elance, which
became Upwork, and we're like,okay, well, we need to send them
(03:04):
something.
And so that's how we startedlooking into how we were going
to build it.
And it was just through askinglots and lots of questions.
It's not because we had any ofthose skills ahead of time, it
was just because we knew wecould ask the questions.
And now, of course, there's AIand you can kind of supercharge
that a little bit better.
You don't have to parse throughall the search results.
(03:27):
But you know we did what wecould and so, you know, we're
not designers.
So when we were making up ourspecification sheets and
wireframes, it was, you know,pen on paper wireframes, but we
detailed, you know, every aspectof the site, how it would look,
how it would operate, and ittook about a few months to build
.
And we launched in Just Our HighSchool, which is a public high
school in New Jersey MontgomeryHigh School in April 2005.
(03:48):
And so when we launched, youknow, we had our friends were
like, wait what?
Because they knew we wereworking on something Right, I
actually had a few people whowere like, I thought what you
were to be working on would besome type of, like, you know,
fashion thing, which I thoughtwas weird.
I am not fashionable at all,never was, but I think it's
because they thought that wouldbe, you know, girlier.
(04:09):
You know I didn't fit the moldof, like tech entrepreneur.
So they're like, oh, it must belike some fashion thing or
something about clothes, whichis, you know, harmful
stereotypes.
But you know, obviously thatwasn't what it was, and if that
was, that would be fine, but notan interest of mine, not
something I can speak tointelligently.
And when we launched we didn'thave a marketing budget, so it
(04:31):
was all about how do we getpeople to sign up.
We kind of discussed going backto fashion.
We wore fun T-shirts to schoolevery day that said things like
answering the questions thatmatter most who are your
friends' friends, and are theyhot?
And they were silly, but wegave a few shirts to our friends
, to other friends too.
We were able to get about 400people to sign up in the first
(04:52):
week, and so that's when Istarted really feeling real.
It's like, oh, now there'speople actually using it and it
was honestly the best place tokind of beta test it because as
the company evolved, it becamevery much not for teenagers and
we became, you know, 18 plus.
It was more of a dating app,but at launch it was, you know,
for teens, by teens, and sobeing in a place where you're
(05:14):
surrounded by your core demo wasso critical to just getting all
the feedback we could and wewere just able to, you know,
come home that night, mock it up, send it to our developer team
and you'll get it live on thesite soon after.
So it was basically iterationafter iteration to hone the
product while we're in kind ofthat beta mode, which I think
(05:35):
really made it a super strongfeature.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Or a super strong initial product anyway, you had
400 people testing it and sayingoh, I wish that you had this
feature or that feature.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
So how fantastic that feature sucks, yeah, okay,
teenagers but, but but it'shelpful.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah, and you created this to solve a problem that
you had, which is whereeverything should start right.
You figured out how to createit, using your skill set, but
also finding outside experts.
Then you beta tested it.
You had the people in yourcommunity to test it on and give
you that and do all theiterations.
At what point did you go, wow,this is something we can
(06:21):
monetize and take to otherschools and start thinking
bigger about the product.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
So we were always thinking kind of big about it,
in the sense of we always wantlike.
When we got started, I mean, wetook some initial investment
from my older brother and whenhe joined us, like we were aware
of Facebook and how big thatwas now.
So we did not become as big asFacebook, unfortunately, but
that was kind of where we'relike maybe we can be the
(06:47):
Facebook for high schoolstudents.
So we were kind of aiming bigand actually like within the
first week or two of launch, wegot our first offer, acquisition
offer.
Now, it was an insulting offer.
It was very low, very, very low, but it was still like okay,
this could be something real.
So when we were initiallystarting, even in those early
days, we would write fake pressreleases as just something to
(07:09):
have on our press page andthey're all tongue in cheek.
But one of them was clearly,like you know, focused on who
could be acquiring us.
So one was like by the author'sname, was like Jostenshurst or
something like that, just to tryto like.
You know, maybe their Googlealerts will be pinged and
they'll be like oh, what's myebook?
Let me find out about that.
And so you know, we were verymuch like it's going to be a
(07:33):
business.
But it didn't really feel likethat until probably until we got
our first million members.
That's when it was like, oh, oh,this thing's actually like this
is really real, because,talking with my brothers ahead
of time, you know we were like amillion members.
That's a great goal to go, goalto have.
You know it's hard to picturewhat a million members looks
like.
Like I still can't reallypicture a million people.
(07:55):
It's just a lot of people.
And when we were but when weended up actually hitting that
in the first year we werelaunched to all schools and so
that was kind of shocking to us.
But then it was like, oh, nowthere's higher stakes.
Now it's like, okay, we'reopening an office, we're getting
a team stateside, and I thinkthat to your question.
(08:16):
That's when it felt like, oh,this is my career, this isn't
just like the side thing I'mbuilding in school, this is like
, oh no, this isn't just whatI'm doing as a fun sophomore
year project, this is going tobe my life, for it ended up
being for the next 18 years.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Amazing.
And how did you decide onmonetization strategies from the
beginning?
Because obviously there'ssubscription models, there's the
the customer is the product, soyou have a lot of advertising
model and everywhere in between.
So what was the thought processbehind that?
Because obviously you said youhad investment, you had hard
costs, you had to pay for yourdevelopers and your team and
(08:53):
then you had to figure out thet-shirts and any other way that
you're promoting it and gettingthat word of mouth out there.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Yeah, so our model was purely ad-driven in the
beginning and the reason forthat was just because, well,
teenagers didn't have a lot ofmoney and also again, this is
2005, when we started out theyalso didn't really have access
necessarily to a credit card orany way of paying you.
I got my first debit card whenI was maybe 16.
(09:21):
Card when I was maybe 16.
So the subscription optionswould also be very high friction
.
So we were always like, okay,ad driven is the way to go.
When we first started out oneof the ways that we actually
started attracting advertisersbecause we had a lot of users in
(09:42):
a core demo that advertisersvery much wanted Exactly, we
would go to the what Teens Wantconference and be shocked by how
little people understood teensas teenagers.
It's always weird to go intoone of those situations and hear
them talking about you like aforeign species.
So we would hear how badly theywanted to reach teens and we
had this network that was allteens and so some of our initial
(10:05):
things we actually did as likelet us show you what we could do
, and there was like a customthing and you know, that's how
we would get repeat clients, andso we do like big homepage
takeovers and things like thatwith movie studios.
Eventually, it became more of,like, you know, filling out
inventory, which is, you know,less flashy but also optimizes
(10:25):
very well, and so that ended upbeing where a lot of the revenue
came from, until mobile.
When we launched our mobileapps in 2010, they became our
biggest platform within twoyears.
So by 2012, web revenues andweb usage has hugely declined.
Almost everyone's on mobile forour platforms, and mobile
(10:47):
advertising wasn't really athing in 2012.
Yet it was just starting out,and at this point we're public.
We had already gone public.
We went public in a $100million SPAC-like deal in 2011.
, and so our initial monthsbeing public was acknowledging
to the investors.
The story was like all ourmembers are on mobile.
We don't really monetize there.
You know.
We would say, you know we wouldpresent there's this famous
(11:11):
Mary Meeker slide that we wouldpresent and say, okay, this is
the $20 billion opportunitythat's going to be there.
You know, within this industry,once the eyeballs match where
people are spending their, youknow, once the dollars match
where people are spending theirtime.
But it wasn't there at first.
We had to, you know, to survivewe had to launch, you know
in-app purchase units, like youknow freemium products as well.
(11:33):
As you know, we did launch asubscription product, but really
ads continued to be our mostimportant driver until like 2017
, 2018.
So it was like yeah, and that'swhen we launched our live
streaming business, and thenwhat was so?
It was one to many livestreaming which now, talking
about live streaming, it's likeoh yeah, everyone does that In
2017, it was a very bold risk tobuild it, like people weren't
(11:57):
really on video, at least in theUS.
It was actually very big inAsia markets and we that's
actually where we had seen itwork really well we're like, oh,
this could solve a lot ofproblems in the dating industry
here, so that's why we wanted toadapt it.
But what's great about thatmodel was because one we knew we
had to get away fromadvertising, because there had
(12:17):
to be this huge supply ofinventory and basically ad rates
were just low across the board,and so we wanted to get away
from that.
And the model that's superpopular for dating, of course,
is subscription.
But our members liked us becausewe were free.
We were free, they could havechats.
We weren't so much dating aslike even Tinder, like you're
not really on there for dates.
(12:38):
You're on there to find friendsand a lot of times, friendships
between single people can leada little flirtatiously.
So you know, we were dating,but only just dating, like it
was more of a, you know, afriendly social app.
It didn't necessarily have thestrings attached of everyone
here is looking for arelationship or like someone to
go on a date with this weekend.
It wasn't that transactional,and so if you're looking for
(13:00):
your spouse, you might bewilling to pay $30 a month.
If you're looking for like afriend and to talk to someone,
you're generally not like that,and so what we wanted to do is
with the live stream product was, you know, monetize a
significantly smaller percentageof our users than you know,
subscription driven products,but do so at a higher rate for
(13:23):
those people.
And so what this product allowed?
So basically, you could sendgifts to the streamer and within
the platform and the streamerwould earn money.
You know, create our economy.
Then they would also want tocreate better content, and so it
was nice, nicely reinforcedthere.
But from our businessperspective, it also monetized
each user up to theirwillingness to pay, because you
(13:45):
could use the featurescompletely free, and you people
did, or you know, you could belike no, I love the streamer,
I've been following them for awhile, I'm a huge fan.
I'm gonna send them this 200dragon, so we would start to see
.
Uh will like behavior.
So some like really big spenders, which you know you don't see
in social apps.
You see in like gaming apps orright, you know, if you're
(14:07):
playing games like that's,that's a much more typical thing
where you see that whalebehavior.
But we started to see it too,because it was.
You know, when you allow peopleto say how much, basically set
their own price, then you're notlimiting them at 30 a month, so
they're going to set thatsignificantly higher and you
know of the streamers were happyand the users were also happy
(14:29):
because it was for our biggifters.
It was generally the way thatthey like there was definitely
some like altruism impact forwhy they were gifting the
streamer.
It's because they lovedsupporting that streamer.
They loved their stories.
The same way that you know youmight follow an influencer on
Instagram and share their thingsLike you, if you've been
(14:50):
talking to someone followingthem and with live being such a
personality driven product likeyou're invested in them.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
And so you, you know that's what we see today, right,
and that's that's what we seeon TikTok or Instagram or any of
these socials, or even YouTube.
So you were very much at theforefront of this and I love
that you talked about thetransition in ad revenue,
because I was thinking like,well, it had to be web-based,
because we didn't even havesmartphones technology when you
(15:20):
created this, and then I wasgoing to ask you about that
transition, because that can bedifficult and it's actually
something we talk about in ourcoursework is how do you
monetize?
You know, and we have to bemobile first.
We know that now and that,thinking about different socials
, you know MySpace had to make apivot to mostly being about
musicians and bands from what itwas before, friendster.
(15:42):
For how long that was around.
I, some of my friends today, arepeople that I met on Friendster
because you know, I put like,oh, I love drinking wine and
boogie boarding and somebody'son like I need, I'm looking for
some new friends and oh, shelikes two things that I like.
So let's become friends and youknow these funny things.
I want to ask a little bitabout that, moving from being in
(16:04):
the youth, the teen, the highschool environment.
And then did you keep thatproduct and then just create new
versions that were for meetingolder friends, dating these
other areas, did you justcompletely morph and transition?
So what was that experiencelike?
Speaker 3 (16:21):
So it happened sort of naturally.
So, you know, early on I said,oh, maybe we'll be the Facebook
for high school students.
Yeah, we learned early on.
I said, oh, maybe we'll be theFacebook for high school
students.
Yeah, we learned very early on,we're not going to be the
Facebook for high schoolstudents.
Growing high school to highschool was very difficult, so
that was our initial goal.
It was like, oh, let's go highschool to high school.
The way Facebook had grown,college to college, high schools
didn't have the same type ofnetwork as a college.
You know, college you have,like this walled garden.
(16:43):
If you're, you can block thingswith an email address.
You know, ramp up demand onlyopen your school when it's ready
.
We didn't see that behavior atall at the high school level and
we just couldn't figure out howto grow that way and so.
But we had to grow some way andso we, we just pursued a
different strategy.
(17:03):
So instead we're like okay,well, let's use we.
Um, we acquired a whole bunchof like, and by saying when I
say a whole bunch, I mean like80 000 future generated quizzes
from another property and aswell, so some of their other
content, but the quizzes werethe most important piece and
they were kind of like buzzfeed.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Quizzes are today like right, you know what or I
mean in the way that facebook,to grow out of the college
environment, went to FarmVille,right and everybody's making
farms, and that's how they got alot of traction.
And then they eventually didaway with that relationship, but
the people stayed.
So you bought quizzes and likefun things for people to do and
(17:46):
share with each other.
Yeah, and the?
Speaker 3 (17:48):
quizzes were naturally viral and they had,
like this you know there was asocial element, because
sometimes it's interesting tosee, well, who scored the same
way as you in your you know inyour area, like that, and scored
I shouldn't say that Like whatfriends character you are.
Hey, here's the other Phoebe'sin your area that you know.
That adds like a little extrasomething to just taking the
quiz.
But people would like to sharetheir quiz results because you
(18:11):
know, whatever quiz they took,you know they felt like, oh, I
want people to know that my, youknow that this is the Hogwarts
house that represents me, or youknow, like whatever it was, and
they would share their pro.
They would share it on AIM andMySpace for the dominant
platforms at the time, and sothat's how we would get new
members.
Was they?
People would click through,we'd have a signup flow, they'd
(18:33):
join, but they'd see other value, they'd find other quizzes,
they'd keep sharing, and so itbecame kind of this.
We call it engineering moralityand we did the same.
So we created.
So, after the quizzes thing wasdoing well, we also created
something that a layout sitespecifically for that as well,
so people could get cool layoutsfor their MySpace pages on our
(18:54):
platform.
So it was finding the thingsthat the MySpace users wanted
and kind of coaxing them over tous with something that they
understood and then finding waysto keep them.
But it's funny that youmentioned FarmValueless, because
we were actually also a topfive Facebook app developer as
well.
And that's where we got a lot ofnew users, really, yeah,
amazing.
So we had two popular Facebookgames and it was, you know, a
(19:21):
lot of people joined throughthose Until Facebook was like,
okay, you got to stop, becauseall those, because they want to
keep every spammed users, likethat's how they worked.
So much sharing, but that's howit worked.
And you know, eventuallyfacebook was like, oh, we're not
going to do that anymore and so, but you expect that and you,
you.
But you know you hope you canride it for as long as you can,
(19:43):
and then you find the next.
You know the next platform, butit's, it's always.
I think you can, and then youfind the next.
You know the next platform, butit's always.
I think you know the analog isit doesn't really matter.
You know what's the currentlythe big thing is it matters,
like how you can think of, howyou can use it, because there's
always going to be.
You know, we're in the businessfor 18 years.
How people changed on ourplatform changed significantly
over 18 years.
(20:04):
Yeah, I can't even imagine.
But the why they were there wasalways the same they wanted to
meet new people.
So the core of their userexperience was pretty much the
same.
So it's finding the features tobuild for that experience and
then also finding where peoplelike them were hanging out.
And so I think itovercomplicates it when you
start thinking.
(20:24):
A lot of times, when people arethinking about growing a
platform, they start goingstraight into like the tactical,
like oh, I need Snapchat ads, Ineed TikTok ads, you know,
whatever you got to kind of go astep.
You know that's, those arethings you can use, but that's,
that's the tactics, that's notthe strategy.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
And you need to find those you know.
You need to have like acohesive strategy that actually
fits for.
Well, why do they want to cometo your platform?
What you know kind of, what'sthe bridge from what they're
currently using to you?
Yeah, and this is the samething we see today.
Even though people are ondigital platforms, it's still
about driving connection,whether it's with family members
who live overseas like myselfwith you know or who live all
over, because every time I turnaround, I feel like I meet a new
family member from my Asianside.
So it's from that to now.
I mean, obviously there'sFacebook dating and Bumble right
(21:16):
has I don't even know if theystill have these, but they have
like EFF, and they have abusiness one also, so they have
all these.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Oh yeah, bumble Biz.
I don't know if I haven't beenon.
I haven't been on Bumble in awhile, just funny, because I had
been on hundreds of dating appsbecause of you know, I've been
married for a while but I'vebeen on hundreds of dating apps
because of you know, marketresearch and all that.
But now that you mention it Iwas like, wow, I haven't checked
out Bumble in like, at least inlike over a year, because I
haven't had to, well, talk aboutthat, why haven't you had to?
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Oh well, because I don't work on a dating app right
now.
Yeah Well, because talk aboutthat transition from building
something from the time you were15, growing with it I mean
growing up with it reallychanging the business, multiple
iterations based on now we havemobile, you know, we have
smartphones, everybody's mobile.
First, now, people were seeingdifferent behaviors and
(22:09):
different things that we need tocreate or incentivize people to
stay on app and growing withlike, just like you were growing
up, other people were growingup too and using your platform.
So I'd love to hear because youhad a big exit and you also
used to do it with the companybut to tell our audience a
little bit about that from yourperspective.
(22:29):
And then, when you kind of saidmaybe it's time for something
new, yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
So we kind of almost had two exits.
So there's a deal that broughtus public, which was like kind
of a natural chapter end, Iguess, in how we were building
the company.
So once you're a public company, it just feels very different
from when you were in yourinitial startup days, even if
the culture of the company isthe same, even if the people are
the same.
There's kind of short-termgoals in a way that there hadn't
been before.
(22:56):
Like you know, if thingsweren't going well when we were
private, we just didn't sayanything about it.
Of course, when you're public,you have quarterly results that
you have to be putting out thereand they better be going up,
which, like I mentioned before,they weren't.
For us during the transitionfrom web to mobile and I really
(23:16):
did just kind of when we becamemore officially in the dating
space became much more likeintertwined.
It's kind of funny to thinkabout, like how much of my
identity was not only being anentrepreneur but specifically
(23:37):
when people would join theproduct, I was the first person
they would get a message from,like it wasn't just you know
something, but it was like well,it was an automated message,
but it came from Catherine C andyou know that.
So it was funny, so thatsometimes we would go to you
know, so we would hold likestreaming events and have our
streamers there and you know Iwould be there because obviously
(23:59):
I'd work for them, you know, toget their feedback on the
products.
You know, you know, wearinglike my work hat, and I'd like
they'd treat me like I wasfamous because I'm like this is
the Catherine C, she's real, andI'd be like hi, I'd like, yeah,
let me talk about this productwith you.
And it was funny because I alsohad a mutual fangirl moment
(24:21):
with, like one of our topstreamers, because I loved her
as a streamer and she loved meas, like, the platform creator,
and it was very like.
You know it was surreal, but asI, you know, so then we had, so
we were a public company forabout nine years before we were
acquired in a $500 million dealby the parent company at
eHarmony, so that you know it'sa large German media company
(24:45):
called ProSieben and you knowthat would be the largest US
brand.
So that would bring us backprivate, which is good At this
time.
Being public was there wasdefinitely issues.
I don't want to say issues, butlike when you're public company
, you have to deal with shortsellers, you have to deal with
(25:05):
sellers, you have to deal with,you know, activists.
And you know it was awell-timed deal in the sense of
just like we had just had thishuge feature launch and it, like
live, was doing incredibly well, we had just launched a bdb
feature with it, and so it waslike, oh, this is basically a
great time to come, can kind ofcontinue the market
consolidation that we hadalready started.
So we had acquired other apps,so started that consolidation
(25:26):
that we were required.
And then so I, but then I didwork for the company for an
additional three years and youknow, of course, like I
mentioned, with the transitionfrom becoming, you know, from
being, you know the startupenvironment to being a public
company, there's also anenvironment from being, you know
, still you know, to kind ofstill have that autonomy to all
of a sudden be part of a largerorganization.
And you know, still loved it,still love the team.
(25:49):
I think you know.
Especially, as you know, I thinkI was very much ready when I
left, especially because I had a.
I had two kids at that, pointout, but my daughter was just
four months old, and so it wasalso just like great timing was
just like you know what I've hadwrite a book on my to-do list
since 2010.
I think I'm gonna write a book,nice, and so that's why you know
(26:12):
, and so it just like worked outreally well for, like you know,
kind of like the book ends forlike one, two, like it felt like
the work that I had been doingat the company, like there was
going to be more transitionshappening and it's it's.
I felt like the work that I hadbeen doing at the company, like
there was going to be moretransitions happening and I felt
like it was just a good time.
But, with that said, like Istill care so deeply about the
product and it's so I'm notlogging into Bumble ever.
(26:34):
I mean, maybe I will if I ever,you know, do some type of work
that involves that, but like,yeah, not just logging in to
check it out, I do log in tomeet me just to check it out,
just to see my favoritestreamers, like cause it's still
so you know I love them, I lovewhat they built and you know, I
love the team that's working onit.
Still, and even though I'm nota part of it.
I'm just like, oh, this isstill you know, it's the
(26:57):
products is still incrediblyimportant to me.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Yeah, well, it was your first baby.
Yes, in so many words.
What are your siblings doingnow?
Are they still involved withthe company?
Have they gone on to otherpursuits as well?
Speaker 3 (27:13):
So Dave is actually still involved with the company
and Jeff is actually the CEO atNoom.
Oh, okay, fantastic.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Yeah, health and wellness app.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Yeah, nice, and you were talking about you figured
this is the right time to writeyour book that you'd had on your
(27:40):
mind.
So talk about the book and whatwill we learn from reading it?
I Like I do tell my story, ofcourse, throughout the book, but
really it's about how anyonecan design an environment where
they can thrive.
Because I feel like and Iopened the book talking about
how we kind of feel like we'reon like this treadmill a lot of
times at work and someone keepsincreasing the speed and you
know you keep adapting, you keeptrying to, you know keep it up
(28:01):
and but eventually you're justgoing to fall off.
And you know you keep adapting,you keep trying to, you know
keep it up and but eventuallyyou're just going to fall off.
And there's a huge issue withburnout right now and part of
that is like the expectationsare just well, let's just
continuously work harder.
A lot of things that werereleased to make you know work
easier whether it be like Teamsor Slack or you know your office
(28:22):
chats, even email like, are nowanxiety inducing because we
haven't learned how to set thoseboundaries, how to basically
design environments where we canwork the way that we want to.
Because I think back about howwe created the company and so
many of the lessons I learnedfrom that, like setting
boundaries, for instance, isimportant for no matter what
(28:43):
you're doing, whether you'rewant to be an entrepreneur or
whether you want to just have acareer where you're, you know,
focused, but also have the restof your life that makes you you,
because I think it's soimportant to have those other
identity pieces and making spacefor them all to survive.
And so one of the first things Italk about in the book is how
do you define success?
Because so often we don't pauseto think about that.
(29:05):
Like what does success actuallylook like for you?
Because what success looks likefor you shouldn't be what
success looks like to you knowsomeone else that isn't you.
It should be unique to you.
It should be about like whatyou actually, how you actually
want to feel, how you actuallywant your life to go, and not
just wanting, not just like atitle at a company, but like
what does your home life looklike too?
How are you involved in yourcommunity?
(29:27):
There's so many more pieces andfacets of you that I feel is
kind of forgotten, and so thebook is really about the lessons
I learned from building thecompany, as it relates to how
you can set boundaries, how youcan make better decisions that
free up your time, how you cancreate more time by using
different tools, be moreauthentic and also, you know,
(29:47):
towards the end of the book I dotalk about some of the issues
that I had specifically around.
You know, being a womanentrepreneur, which is different
than you know some of thechallenges that my brothers had,
and so how I kind of navigatethis, but also how you know we
could think about supporting andthriving together, because you
know a lot of the things thatyou know.
(30:08):
When you think about designingfor more inclusive environments,
most of the things that helpone group actually end up
helping all of the groups.
So it really helps everyone tothink of ways to just make an
environment accessible to all,because then you know whether
you need.
You know so, for instance, whenyou take, like, flexible
(30:30):
working environments, you know,obviously, parents.
That's very appealing toparents.
It's also appealing to peoplewho have an aging parent or you
know.
So that's another caregivingrole.
It's also appealing to someonewho might be, you know, training
for something that you know,that you have that flexibility
to, or even someone that wantsto pursue, you know, further
(30:50):
education and just needs thatflexibility from their role so
that they could actually becomean even better team member by,
you know, furthering theirskills in some way.
And so my book is really abouthow to kind of navigate those
and prevent burnout as you do it.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Nice, and what does that look like for you today?
You have your family life, butyou're also coming on podcasts.
You're also speaking atuniversities I saw you had a
recent talk and you're doing alot of other things.
So what is your focus now?
Is it really on helping getyour message out and helping
other people, whatever stagethey're in right If they're in
(31:28):
university, high school, tryingto figure out how to pursue
their dreams to people who'vebeen in their careers and still
need this?
Speaker 3 (31:33):
advice weekly newsletter called Growing Up
Startup, where I share, you know, other things that, yeah, I
haven't talked about in the book.
And then I also do monthlyoffice hours where I just and
other than monthly, I justconnect with people a lot.
I'm talking about how we can,you know, build better
(31:59):
environments for everyone tothrive, because it's so
important to me, and also I justhave a soft spot too, for
talking to any aspiringentrepreneur or someone who's
already currently in the thickof it and finding ways to any
way, you know, to be usefulwhere I can.
And so that's one of thereasons I do the office hours is
to, you know, kind of providethat place to just connect with
others, and because I also findit to be incredibly clarifying
for me Whenever you're trying to, like, teach someone how to do
(32:22):
something.
It helps, you know, it helpsyou think through it too and I
think it becomes so.
You know, I don't do it justbecause I'm trying to learn too,
but I think it actually, youknow it's rewarding to me both,
you know, not just from like, oh, I'm helping someone, but also
because it helps me.
It helps me figure out, likeyou know, exactly what I'm
working on, exactly why I'mdoing it, and so I find it very
(32:44):
fulfilling.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yeah, that's the best way to look at it, because
that's the same thing I getevery time I have a call or
every time I'm in class and meetwith a student afterwards.
It's not just about me helpinggive information, it's about me
sharing somebody else'sinformation or learning from
them as well.
So it's a really beautifulplace to be in.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
It is.
It is Especially because youknow there's so many people that
have different, you knowdifferent challenges, no matter
what they are, that you know.
I don't have lived experience.
I live my own lived experience.
But just hearing you know whatother people are struggling with
also helps me realize, you know, this is what you know.
These are the spaces that weneed to design better.
These are the things that weneed to be thinking about.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
And I will share.
I love your last post that wasfrom an hour ago.
I was reading through it,actually about stress and
working out and making sure totake care of yourself.
So you have the links to yournewsletter, your book, your
office hours in there.
I will share them all with ouraudience and show notes.
Is there any last piece ofadvice that you would give to
(33:51):
that young entrepreneur orsomebody who's just starting out
in their entrepreneurshipjourney, whatever their age?
Is somebody who's listening,who is one of our students in
the master's programs at USC,who just needs that little
nugget, that little push fromyou right now.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Yeah, I would say just go for it.
Just do it, Because waitinguntil you feel ready is often
waiting too long.
You can't really wait becauseeverything's going to like as
soon as you launch.
Everything's going to change.
Expect that, and so get to thatlaunch point as soon as you can
, because after that it'siteration, it's learning.
(34:27):
They give everything you do asan experiment so that you can
tinker, you can play with it.
But don't overthink the launch,because you're always going to
be in the process of launching.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Yeah, I think that's one lesson we've definitely
learned from listening to youtoday.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Well, this has been a really fantastic conversation,
catherine.
I always love it when we get tochat and I know that our
audience at USC is going to getgreat value USC and beyond, I
should say out of thisconversation.
So just thank you again forbeing here and thank you to
everybody who's watching thisepisode or listening to it.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
So just thank you again for being here and thank
you to everybody who's watchingthis episode or listening to it.
To learn more about the Masterof Science in Digital Media
Management program, visit us onthe web at dmmuscedu.
Welcome to Mediascape insights from digital
changemakers, a speaker seriesand podcast brought to you by
USC Annenberg's Digital MediaManagement Program.
Join us as we unlock thesecrets to success in an
increasingly digital world.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
I'm so excited to have this conversation with
Catherine Connolly, who I'vebeen getting to know over these
past few months.
Catherine, I've read your bookDesigning Success a bestseller
and I think that thisconversation is going to be
really inspirational for ourstudents and our alums at USC.
So thank you for being here.
Thank you so much for having me.
(00:41):
So this podcast, mediascape, issponsored by the Digital Media
Management Program.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm like, yes, we have to haveyou on and talk about this,
(01:02):
because you created a product atthe age of 15 with your
siblings and had a verysuccessful time exited.
I want you to share a littlebit about that journey with this
audience and then we can talkabout how you're using that for
good now to inspire others.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah, that sounds great.
Yes, so my company started backwhen I was 15, as you mentioned
, my brother and I were actuallynew in our school, so we were
trying to make new friends and Iguess we had a underlying bit
of nerdiness about us and we'relike, why don't we make a
website to do that?
And so the idea was a websitethat would make meeting new
people fun.
That would be kind of like adigital yearbook where you would
(01:39):
learn more about eachindividual classmate, and so we
called it my Yearbook, andindividual classmates and so we
called it my Yearbook.
And for that to be what we wereworking on would have been a
certainly was a shock to likeeveryone that knew us, because
we weren't coders Like we havethe typical amount of, you know,
tech skills of any other highschool student.
You know we were on MySpace, wehad AIM profiles, which were,
(02:00):
you know the platforms of thetime, but you know, we didn't
really have any qualificationsto start a website.
It's not like we were the kidsthat were doing coding boot
camps or something like that,but what we did have was our
oldest brother had started hisfirst company from his Harvard
dorm room and he grew upsuccessfully, had a successful
exit.
And so we grew up because he's11 years older than me, so we
(02:22):
grew up watching him do that andthinking, you know, why can't
we start our own thing?
You know Jeff did and so kindof moving into it.
That's very important earlyexposure to entrepreneurship.
That made it so that when we hadan idea, we're like why not
build it?
But of course we didn't knowhow to do it.
So that's when we started.
(02:43):
Really we used Google to bekind of the age equalizer.
We Googled literally anyquestion you could have about.
You know like even like youknow how to buy a domain name,
things like that.
Like what does a specificationsheet look like?
Because, yeah, we're talking todevelopers on Elance, which
became Upwork, and we're like,okay, well, we need to send them
(03:04):
something.
And so that's how we startedlooking into how we were going
to build it.
And it was just through askinglots and lots of questions.
It's not because we had any ofthose skills ahead of time, it
was just because we knew wecould ask the questions.
And now, of course, there's AIand you can kind of supercharge
that a little bit better.
You don't have to parse throughall the search results.
(03:27):
But you know we did what wecould and so, you know, we're
not designers.
So when we were making up ourspecification sheets and
wireframes, it was, you know,pen on paper wireframes, but we
detailed, you know, every aspectof the site, how it would look,
how it would operate, and ittook about a few months to build
.
And we launched in Just Our HighSchool, which is a public high
school in New Jersey MontgomeryHigh School in April 2005.
(03:48):
And so when we launched, youknow, we had our friends were
like, wait what?
Because they knew we wereworking on something Right, I
actually had a few people whowere like, I thought what you
were to be working on would besome type of, like, you know,
fashion thing, which I thoughtwas weird.
I am not fashionable at all,never was, but I think it's
because they thought that wouldbe, you know, girlier.
(04:09):
You know I didn't fit the moldof, like tech entrepreneur.
So they're like, oh, it must belike some fashion thing or
something about clothes, whichis, you know, harmful
stereotypes.
But you know, obviously thatwasn't what it was, and if that
was, that would be fine, but notan interest of mine, not
something I can speak tointelligently.
And when we launched we didn'thave a marketing budget, so it
(04:31):
was all about how do we getpeople to sign up.
We kind of discussed going backto fashion.
We wore fun T-shirts to schoolevery day that said things like
answering the questions thatmatter most who are your
friends' friends, and are theyhot?
And they were silly, but wegave a few shirts to our friends
, to other friends too.
We were able to get about 400people to sign up in the first
(04:52):
week, and so that's when Istarted really feeling real.
It's like, oh, now there'speople actually using it and it
was honestly the best place tokind of beta test it because as
the company evolved, it becamevery much not for teenagers and
we became, you know, 18 plus.
It was more of a dating app,but at launch it was, you know,
for teens, by teens, and sobeing in a place where you're
(05:14):
surrounded by your core demo wasso critical to just getting all
the feedback we could and wewere just able to, you know,
come home that night, mock it up, send it to our developer team
and you'll get it live on thesite soon after.
So it was basically iterationafter iteration to hone the
product while we're in kind ofthat beta mode, which I think
(05:35):
really made it a super strongfeature.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Or a super strong initial product anyway, you had
400 people testing it and sayingoh, I wish that you had this
feature or that feature.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
So how fantastic that feature sucks, yeah, okay,
teenagers but, but but it'shelpful.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah, and you created this to solve a problem that
you had, which is whereeverything should start right.
You figured out how to createit, using your skill set, but
also finding outside experts.
Then you beta tested it.
You had the people in yourcommunity to test it on and give
you that and do all theiterations.
At what point did you go, wow,this is something we can
(06:21):
monetize and take to otherschools and start thinking
bigger about the product.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
So we were always thinking kind of big about it,
in the sense of we always wantlike.
When we got started, I mean, wetook some initial investment
from my older brother and whenhe joined us, like we were aware
of Facebook and how big thatwas now.
So we did not become as big asFacebook, unfortunately, but
that was kind of where we'relike maybe we can be the
(06:47):
Facebook for high schoolstudents.
So we were kind of aiming bigand actually like within the
first week or two of launch, wegot our first offer, acquisition
offer.
Now, it was an insulting offer.
It was very low, very, very low, but it was still like okay,
this could be something real.
So when we were initiallystarting, even in those early
days, we would write fake pressreleases as just something to
(07:09):
have on our press page andthey're all tongue in cheek.
But one of them was clearly,like you know, focused on who
could be acquiring us.
So one was like by the author'sname, was like Jostenshurst or
something like that, just to tryto like.
You know, maybe their Googlealerts will be pinged and
they'll be like oh, what's myebook?
Let me find out about that.
And so you know, we were verymuch like it's going to be a
(07:33):
business.
But it didn't really feel likethat until probably until we got
our first million members.
That's when it was like, oh, oh,this thing's actually like this
is really real, because,talking with my brothers ahead
of time, you know we were like amillion members.
That's a great goal to go, goalto have.
You know it's hard to picturewhat a million members looks
like.
Like I still can't reallypicture a million people.
(07:55):
It's just a lot of people.
And when we were but when weended up actually hitting that
in the first year we werelaunched to all schools and so
that was kind of shocking to us.
But then it was like, oh, nowthere's higher stakes.
Now it's like, okay, we'reopening an office, we're getting
a team stateside, and I thinkthat to your question.
(08:16):
That's when it felt like, oh,this is my career, this isn't
just like the side thing I'mbuilding in school, this is like
, oh no, this isn't just whatI'm doing as a fun sophomore
year project, this is going tobe my life, for it ended up
being for the next 18 years.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Amazing.
And how did you decide onmonetization strategies from the
beginning?
Because obviously there'ssubscription models, there's the
the customer is the product, soyou have a lot of advertising
model and everywhere in between.
So what was the thought processbehind that?
Because obviously you said youhad investment, you had hard
costs, you had to pay for yourdevelopers and your team and
(08:53):
then you had to figure out thet-shirts and any other way that
you're promoting it and gettingthat word of mouth out there.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Yeah, so our model was purely ad-driven in the
beginning and the reason forthat was just because, well,
teenagers didn't have a lot ofmoney and also again, this is
2005, when we started out theyalso didn't really have access
necessarily to a credit card orany way of paying you.
I got my first debit card whenI was maybe 16.
(09:21):
Card when I was maybe 16.
So the subscription optionswould also be very high friction
.
So we were always like, okay,ad driven is the way to go.
When we first started out oneof the ways that we actually
started attracting advertisersbecause we had a lot of users in
(09:42):
a core demo that advertisersvery much wanted Exactly, we
would go to the what Teens Wantconference and be shocked by how
little people understood teensas teenagers.
It's always weird to go intoone of those situations and hear
them talking about you like aforeign species.
So we would hear how badly theywanted to reach teens and we
had this network that was allteens and so some of our initial
(10:05):
things we actually did as likelet us show you what we could do
, and there was like a customthing and you know, that's how
we would get repeat clients, andso we do like big homepage
takeovers and things like thatwith movie studios.
Eventually, it became more of,like, you know, filling out
inventory, which is, you know,less flashy but also optimizes
(10:25):
very well, and so that ended upbeing where a lot of the revenue
came from, until mobile.
When we launched our mobileapps in 2010, they became our
biggest platform within twoyears.
So by 2012, web revenues andweb usage has hugely declined.
Almost everyone's on mobile forour platforms, and mobile
(10:47):
advertising wasn't really athing in 2012.
Yet it was just starting out,and at this point we're public.
We had already gone public.
We went public in a $100million SPAC-like deal in 2011.
, and so our initial monthsbeing public was acknowledging
to the investors.
The story was like all ourmembers are on mobile.
We don't really monetize there.
You know.
We would say, you know we wouldpresent there's this famous
(11:11):
Mary Meeker slide that we wouldpresent and say, okay, this is
the $20 billion opportunitythat's going to be there.
You know, within this industry,once the eyeballs match where
people are spending their, youknow, once the dollars match
where people are spending theirtime.
But it wasn't there at first.
We had to, you know, to survivewe had to launch, you know
in-app purchase units, like youknow freemium products as well.
(11:33):
As you know, we did launch asubscription product, but really
ads continued to be our mostimportant driver until like 2017
, 2018.
So it was like yeah, and that'swhen we launched our live
streaming business, and thenwhat was so?
It was one to many livestreaming which now, talking
about live streaming, it's likeoh yeah, everyone does that In
2017, it was a very bold risk tobuild it, like people weren't
(11:57):
really on video, at least in theUS.
It was actually very big inAsia markets and we that's
actually where we had seen itwork really well we're like, oh,
this could solve a lot ofproblems in the dating industry
here, so that's why we wanted toadapt it.
But what's great about thatmodel was because one we knew we
had to get away fromadvertising, because there had
(12:17):
to be this huge supply ofinventory and basically ad rates
were just low across the board,and so we wanted to get away
from that.
And the model that's superpopular for dating, of course,
is subscription.
But our members liked us becausewe were free.
We were free, they could havechats.
We weren't so much dating aslike even Tinder, like you're
not really on there for dates.
(12:38):
You're on there to find friendsand a lot of times, friendships
between single people can leada little flirtatiously.
So you know, we were dating,but only just dating, like it
was more of a, you know, afriendly social app.
It didn't necessarily have thestrings attached of everyone
here is looking for arelationship or like someone to
go on a date with this weekend.
It wasn't that transactional,and so if you're looking for
(13:00):
your spouse, you might bewilling to pay $30 a month.
If you're looking for like afriend and to talk to someone,
you're generally not like that,and so what we wanted to do is
with the live stream product was, you know, monetize a
significantly smaller percentageof our users than you know,
subscription driven products,but do so at a higher rate for
(13:23):
those people.
And so what this product allowed?
So basically, you could sendgifts to the streamer and within
the platform and the streamerwould earn money.
You know, create our economy.
Then they would also want tocreate better content, and so it
was nice, nicely reinforcedthere.
But from our businessperspective, it also monetized
each user up to theirwillingness to pay, because you
(13:45):
could use the featurescompletely free, and you people
did, or you know, you could belike no, I love the streamer,
I've been following them for awhile, I'm a huge fan.
I'm gonna send them this 200dragon, so we would start to see
.
Uh will like behavior.
So some like really big spenders, which you know you don't see
in social apps.
You see in like gaming apps orright, you know, if you're
(14:07):
playing games like that's,that's a much more typical thing
where you see that whalebehavior.
But we started to see it too,because it was.
You know, when you allow peopleto say how much, basically set
their own price, then you're notlimiting them at 30 a month, so
they're going to set thatsignificantly higher and you
know of the streamers were happyand the users were also happy
(14:29):
because it was for our biggifters.
It was generally the way thatthey like there was definitely
some like altruism impact forwhy they were gifting the
streamer.
It's because they lovedsupporting that streamer.
They loved their stories.
The same way that you know youmight follow an influencer on
Instagram and share their thingsLike you, if you've been
(14:50):
talking to someone followingthem and with live being such a
personality driven product likeyou're invested in them.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
And so you, you know that's what we see today, right,
and that's that's what we seeon TikTok or Instagram or any of
these socials, or even YouTube.
So you were very much at theforefront of this and I love
that you talked about thetransition in ad revenue,
because I was thinking like,well, it had to be web-based,
because we didn't even havesmartphones technology when you
(15:20):
created this, and then I wasgoing to ask you about that
transition, because that can bedifficult and it's actually
something we talk about in ourcoursework is how do you
monetize?
You know, and we have to bemobile first.
We know that now and that,thinking about different socials
, you know MySpace had to make apivot to mostly being about
musicians and bands from what itwas before, friendster.
(15:42):
For how long that was around.
I, some of my friends today, arepeople that I met on Friendster
because you know, I put like,oh, I love drinking wine and
boogie boarding and somebody'son like I need, I'm looking for
some new friends and oh, shelikes two things that I like.
So let's become friends and youknow these funny things.
I want to ask a little bitabout that, moving from being in
(16:04):
the youth, the teen, the highschool environment.
And then did you keep thatproduct and then just create new
versions that were for meetingolder friends, dating these
other areas, did you justcompletely morph and transition?
So what was that experiencelike?
Speaker 3 (16:21):
So it happened sort of naturally.
So, you know, early on I said,oh, maybe we'll be the Facebook
for high school students.
Yeah, we learned early on.
I said, oh, maybe we'll be theFacebook for high school
students.
Yeah, we learned very early on,we're not going to be the
Facebook for high schoolstudents.
Growing high school to highschool was very difficult, so
that was our initial goal.
It was like, oh, let's go highschool to high school.
The way Facebook had grown,college to college, high schools
didn't have the same type ofnetwork as a college.
You know, college you have,like this walled garden.
(16:43):
If you're, you can block thingswith an email address.
You know, ramp up demand onlyopen your school when it's ready
.
We didn't see that behavior atall at the high school level and
we just couldn't figure out howto grow that way and so.
But we had to grow some way andso we, we just pursued a
different strategy.
(17:03):
So instead we're like okay,well, let's use we.
Um, we acquired a whole bunchof like, and by saying when I
say a whole bunch, I mean like80 000 future generated quizzes
from another property and aswell, so some of their other
content, but the quizzes werethe most important piece and
they were kind of like buzzfeed.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Quizzes are today like right, you know what or I
mean in the way that facebook,to grow out of the college
environment, went to FarmVille,right and everybody's making
farms, and that's how they got alot of traction.
And then they eventually didaway with that relationship, but
the people stayed.
So you bought quizzes and likefun things for people to do and
(17:46):
share with each other.
Yeah, and the?
Speaker 3 (17:48):
quizzes were naturally viral and they had,
like this you know there was asocial element, because
sometimes it's interesting tosee, well, who scored the same
way as you in your you know inyour area, like that, and scored
I shouldn't say that Like whatfriends character you are.
Hey, here's the other Phoebe'sin your area that you know.
That adds like a little extrasomething to just taking the
quiz.
But people would like to sharetheir quiz results because you
(18:11):
know, whatever quiz they took,you know they felt like, oh, I
want people to know that my, youknow that this is the Hogwarts
house that represents me, or youknow, like whatever it was, and
they would share their pro.
They would share it on AIM andMySpace for the dominant
platforms at the time, and sothat's how we would get new
members.
Was they?
People would click through,we'd have a signup flow, they'd
(18:33):
join, but they'd see other value, they'd find other quizzes,
they'd keep sharing, and so itbecame kind of this.
We call it engineering moralityand we did the same.
So we created.
So, after the quizzes thing wasdoing well, we also created
something that a layout sitespecifically for that as well,
so people could get cool layoutsfor their MySpace pages on our
(18:54):
platform.
So it was finding the thingsthat the MySpace users wanted
and kind of coaxing them over tous with something that they
understood and then finding waysto keep them.
But it's funny that youmentioned FarmValueless, because
we were actually also a topfive Facebook app developer as
well.
And that's where we got a lot ofnew users, really, yeah,
amazing.
So we had two popular Facebookgames and it was, you know, a
(19:21):
lot of people joined throughthose Until Facebook was like,
okay, you got to stop, becauseall those, because they want to
keep every spammed users, likethat's how they worked.
So much sharing, but that's howit worked.
And you know, eventuallyfacebook was like, oh, we're not
going to do that anymore and so, but you expect that and you,
you.
But you know you hope you canride it for as long as you can,
(19:43):
and then you find the next.
You know the next platform, butit's, it's always.
I think you can, and then youfind the next.
You know the next platform, butit's always.
I think you know the analog isit doesn't really matter.
You know what's the currentlythe big thing is it matters,
like how you can think of, howyou can use it, because there's
always going to be.
You know, we're in the businessfor 18 years.
How people changed on ourplatform changed significantly
over 18 years.
(20:04):
Yeah, I can't even imagine.
But the why they were there wasalways the same they wanted to
meet new people.
So the core of their userexperience was pretty much the
same.
So it's finding the features tobuild for that experience and
then also finding where peoplelike them were hanging out.
And so I think itovercomplicates it when you
start thinking.
(20:24):
A lot of times, when people arethinking about growing a
platform, they start goingstraight into like the tactical,
like oh, I need Snapchat ads, Ineed TikTok ads, you know,
whatever you got to kind of go astep.
You know that's, those arethings you can use, but that's,
that's the tactics, that's notthe strategy.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
And you need to find those you know.
You need to have like acohesive strategy that actually
fits for.
Well, why do they want to cometo your platform?
What you know kind of, what'sthe bridge from what they're
currently using to you?
Yeah, and this is the samething we see today.
Even though people are ondigital platforms, it's still
about driving connection,whether it's with family members
who live overseas like myselfwith you know or who live all
over, because every time I turnaround, I feel like I meet a new
family member from my Asianside.
So it's from that to now.
I mean, obviously there'sFacebook dating and Bumble right
(21:16):
has I don't even know if theystill have these, but they have
like EFF, and they have abusiness one also, so they have
all these.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Oh yeah, bumble Biz.
I don't know if I haven't beenon.
I haven't been on Bumble in awhile, just funny, because I had
been on hundreds of dating appsbecause of you know, I've been
married for a while but I'vebeen on hundreds of dating apps
because of you know, marketresearch and all that.
But now that you mention it Iwas like, wow, I haven't checked
out Bumble in like, at least inlike over a year, because I
haven't had to, well, talk aboutthat, why haven't you had to?
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Oh well, because I don't work on a dating app right
now.
Yeah Well, because talk aboutthat transition from building
something from the time you were15, growing with it I mean
growing up with it reallychanging the business, multiple
iterations based on now we havemobile, you know, we have
smartphones, everybody's mobile.
First, now, people were seeingdifferent behaviors and
(22:09):
different things that we need tocreate or incentivize people to
stay on app and growing withlike, just like you were growing
up, other people were growingup too and using your platform.
So I'd love to hear because youhad a big exit and you also
used to do it with the companybut to tell our audience a
little bit about that from yourperspective.
(22:29):
And then, when you kind of saidmaybe it's time for something
new, yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
So we kind of almost had two exits.
So there's a deal that broughtus public, which was like kind
of a natural chapter end, Iguess, in how we were building
the company.
So once you're a public company, it just feels very different
from when you were in yourinitial startup days, even if
the culture of the company isthe same, even if the people are
the same.
There's kind of short-termgoals in a way that there hadn't
been before.
(22:56):
Like you know, if thingsweren't going well when we were
private, we just didn't sayanything about it.
Of course, when you're public,you have quarterly results that
you have to be putting out thereand they better be going up,
which, like I mentioned before,they weren't.
For us during the transitionfrom web to mobile and I really
(23:16):
did just kind of when we becamemore officially in the dating
space became much more likeintertwined.
It's kind of funny to thinkabout, like how much of my
identity was not only being anentrepreneur but specifically
(23:37):
when people would join theproduct, I was the first person
they would get a message from,like it wasn't just you know
something, but it was like well,it was an automated message,
but it came from Catherine C andyou know that.
So it was funny, so thatsometimes we would go to you
know, so we would hold likestreaming events and have our
streamers there and you know Iwould be there because obviously
(23:59):
I'd work for them, you know, toget their feedback on the
products.
You know, you know, wearinglike my work hat, and I'd like
they'd treat me like I wasfamous because I'm like this is
the Catherine C, she's real, andI'd be like hi, I'd like, yeah,
let me talk about this productwith you.
And it was funny because I alsohad a mutual fangirl moment
(24:21):
with, like one of our topstreamers, because I loved her
as a streamer and she loved meas, like, the platform creator,
and it was very like.
You know it was surreal, but asI, you know, so then we had, so
we were a public company forabout nine years before we were
acquired in a $500 million dealby the parent company at
eHarmony, so that you know it'sa large German media company
(24:45):
called ProSieben and you knowthat would be the largest US
brand.
So that would bring us backprivate, which is good At this
time.
Being public was there wasdefinitely issues.
I don't want to say issues, butlike when you're public company
, you have to deal with shortsellers, you have to deal with
(25:05):
sellers, you have to deal with,you know, activists.
And you know it was awell-timed deal in the sense of
just like we had just had thishuge feature launch and it, like
live, was doing incredibly well, we had just launched a bdb
feature with it, and so it waslike, oh, this is basically a
great time to come, can kind ofcontinue the market
consolidation that we hadalready started.
So we had acquired other apps,so started that consolidation
(25:26):
that we were required.
And then so I, but then I didwork for the company for an
additional three years and youknow, of course, like I
mentioned, with the transitionfrom becoming, you know, from
being, you know the startupenvironment to being a public
company, there's also anenvironment from being, you know
, still you know, to kind ofstill have that autonomy to all
of a sudden be part of a largerorganization.
And you know, still loved it,still love the team.
(25:49):
I think you know.
Especially, as you know, I thinkI was very much ready when I
left, especially because I had a.
I had two kids at that, pointout, but my daughter was just
four months old, and so it wasalso just like great timing was
just like you know what I've hadwrite a book on my to-do list
since 2010.
I think I'm gonna write a book,nice, and so that's why you know
(26:12):
, and so it just like worked outreally well for, like you know,
kind of like the book ends forlike one, two, like it felt like
the work that I had been doingat the company, like there was
going to be more transitionshappening and it's it's.
I felt like the work that I hadbeen doing at the company, like
there was going to be moretransitions happening and I felt
like it was just a good time.
But, with that said, like Istill care so deeply about the
product and it's so I'm notlogging into Bumble ever.
(26:34):
I mean, maybe I will if I ever,you know, do some type of work
that involves that, but like,yeah, not just logging in to
check it out, I do log in tomeet me just to check it out,
just to see my favoritestreamers, like cause it's still
so you know I love them, I lovewhat they built and you know, I
love the team that's working onit.
Still, and even though I'm nota part of it.
I'm just like, oh, this isstill you know, it's the
(26:57):
products is still incrediblyimportant to me.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Yeah, well, it was your first baby.
Yes, in so many words.
What are your siblings doingnow?
Are they still involved withthe company?
Have they gone on to otherpursuits as well?
Speaker 3 (27:13):
So Dave is actually still involved with the company
and Jeff is actually the CEO atNoom.
Oh, okay, fantastic.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Yeah, health and wellness app.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Yeah, nice, and you were talking about you figured
this is the right time to writeyour book that you'd had on your
(27:40):
mind.
So talk about the book and whatwill we learn from reading it?
I Like I do tell my story, ofcourse, throughout the book, but
really it's about how anyonecan design an environment where
they can thrive.
Because I feel like and Iopened the book talking about
how we kind of feel like we'reon like this treadmill a lot of
times at work and someone keepsincreasing the speed and you
know you keep adapting, you keeptrying to, you know keep it up
(28:01):
and but eventually you're justgoing to fall off.
And you know you keep adapting,you keep trying to, you know
keep it up and but eventuallyyou're just going to fall off.
And there's a huge issue withburnout right now and part of
that is like the expectationsare just well, let's just
continuously work harder.
A lot of things that werereleased to make you know work
easier whether it be like Teamsor Slack or you know your office
(28:22):
chats, even email like, are nowanxiety inducing because we
haven't learned how to set thoseboundaries, how to basically
design environments where we canwork the way that we want to.
Because I think back about howwe created the company and so
many of the lessons I learnedfrom that, like setting
boundaries, for instance, isimportant for no matter what
(28:43):
you're doing, whether you'rewant to be an entrepreneur or
whether you want to just have acareer where you're, you know,
focused, but also have the restof your life that makes you you,
because I think it's soimportant to have those other
identity pieces and making spacefor them all to survive.
And so one of the first things Italk about in the book is how
do you define success?
Because so often we don't pauseto think about that.
(29:05):
Like what does success actuallylook like for you?
Because what success looks likefor you shouldn't be what
success looks like to you knowsomeone else that isn't you.
It should be unique to you.
It should be about like whatyou actually, how you actually
want to feel, how you actuallywant your life to go, and not
just wanting, not just like atitle at a company, but like
what does your home life looklike too?
How are you involved in yourcommunity?
(29:27):
There's so many more pieces andfacets of you that I feel is
kind of forgotten, and so thebook is really about the lessons
I learned from building thecompany, as it relates to how
you can set boundaries, how youcan make better decisions that
free up your time, how you cancreate more time by using
different tools, be moreauthentic and also, you know,
(29:47):
towards the end of the book I dotalk about some of the issues
that I had specifically around.
You know, being a womanentrepreneur, which is different
than you know some of thechallenges that my brothers had,
and so how I kind of navigatethis, but also how you know we
could think about supporting andthriving together, because you
know a lot of the things thatyou know.
(30:08):
When you think about designingfor more inclusive environments,
most of the things that helpone group actually end up
helping all of the groups.
So it really helps everyone tothink of ways to just make an
environment accessible to all,because then you know whether
you need.
You know so, for instance, whenyou take, like, flexible
(30:30):
working environments, you know,obviously, parents.
That's very appealing toparents.
It's also appealing to peoplewho have an aging parent or you
know.
So that's another caregivingrole.
It's also appealing to someonewho might be, you know, training
for something that you know,that you have that flexibility
to, or even someone that wantsto pursue, you know, further
(30:50):
education and just needs thatflexibility from their role so
that they could actually becomean even better team member by,
you know, furthering theirskills in some way.
And so my book is really abouthow to kind of navigate those
and prevent burnout as you do it.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
Nice, and what does that look like for you today?
You have your family life, butyou're also coming on podcasts.
You're also speaking atuniversities I saw you had a
recent talk and you're doing alot of other things.
So what is your focus now?
Is it really on helping getyour message out and helping
other people, whatever stagethey're in right If they're in
(31:28):
university, high school, tryingto figure out how to pursue
their dreams to people who'vebeen in their careers and still
need this?
Speaker 3 (31:33):
advice weekly newsletter called Growing Up
Startup, where I share, you know, other things that, yeah, I
haven't talked about in the book.
And then I also do monthlyoffice hours where I just and
other than monthly, I justconnect with people a lot.
I'm talking about how we can,you know, build better
(31:59):
environments for everyone tothrive, because it's so
important to me, and also I justhave a soft spot too, for
talking to any aspiringentrepreneur or someone who's
already currently in the thickof it and finding ways to any
way, you know, to be usefulwhere I can.
And so that's one of thereasons I do the office hours is
to, you know, kind of providethat place to just connect with
others, and because I also findit to be incredibly clarifying
for me Whenever you're trying to, like, teach someone how to do
(32:22):
something.
It helps, you know, it helpsyou think through it too and I
think it becomes so.
You know, I don't do it justbecause I'm trying to learn too,
but I think it actually, youknow it's rewarding to me both,
you know, not just from like, oh, I'm helping someone, but also
because it helps me.
It helps me figure out, likeyou know, exactly what I'm
working on, exactly why I'mdoing it, and so I find it very
(32:44):
fulfilling.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yeah, that's the best way to look at it, because
that's the same thing I getevery time I have a call or
every time I'm in class and meetwith a student afterwards.
It's not just about me helpinggive information, it's about me
sharing somebody else'sinformation or learning from
them as well.
So it's a really beautifulplace to be in.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
It is.
It is Especially because youknow there's so many people that
have different, you knowdifferent challenges, no matter
what they are, that you know.
I don't have lived experience.
I live my own lived experience.
But just hearing you know whatother people are struggling with
also helps me realize, you know, this is what you know.
These are the spaces that weneed to design better.
These are the things that weneed to be thinking about.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
And I will share.
I love your last post that wasfrom an hour ago.
I was reading through it,actually about stress and
working out and making sure totake care of yourself.
So you have the links to yournewsletter, your book, your
office hours in there.
I will share them all with ouraudience and show notes.
Is there any last piece ofadvice that you would give to
(33:51):
that young entrepreneur orsomebody who's just starting out
in their entrepreneurshipjourney, whatever their age?
Is somebody who's listening,who is one of our students in
the master's programs at USC,who just needs that little
nugget, that little push fromyou right now.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
Yeah, I would say just go for it.
Just do it, Because waitinguntil you feel ready is often
waiting too long.
You can't really wait becauseeverything's going to like as
soon as you launch.
Everything's going to change.
Expect that, and so get to thatlaunch point as soon as you can
, because after that it'siteration, it's learning.
(34:27):
They give everything you do asan experiment so that you can
tinker, you can play with it.
But don't overthink the launch,because you're always going to
be in the process of launching.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Yeah, I think that's one lesson we've definitely
learned from listening to youtoday.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Well, this has been a really fantastic conversation,
catherine.
I always love it when we get tochat and I know that our
audience at USC is going to getgreat value USC and beyond, I
should say out of thisconversation.
So just thank you again forbeing here and thank you to
everybody who's watching thisepisode or listening to it.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
So just thank you again for being here and thank
you to everybody who's watchingthis episode or listening to it.
To learn more about the Masterof Science in Digital Media
Management program, visit us onthe web at dmmuscedu.
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