May 28, 2025 • 32 mins
Katie Gray's journey from traditional agency work to founding her own marketing collective reveals a refreshing new model for the industry. After experiencing the limitations of conventional agency structures—where junior marketers get thrust into high-stakes roles prematurely and burnout leads to high turnover—she built Kinetic Marketing Communications as a solution.
The secret? A nationwide network of senior-level specialists who collaborate as independent contractors. This approach eliminates geographical constraints while ensuring clients work with true experts in each marketing discipline. Unlike traditional agencies that often switch account teams mid-project, Kinetic provides continuity with proven professionals who deliver consistently excellent work.
Gray draws a compelling parallel between marketing and medicine—both fields require specialists with deep expertise in particular areas. Just as you wouldn't want a general practitioner performing brain surgery, why would you want a junior generalist handling your specialized marketing needs? This philosophy has allowed Kinetic to build teams precisely matched to each client's unique requirements.
When discussing artificial intelligence's role in marketing, Gray acknowledges its utility while emphasizing its limitations. "Buying is 95% emotion," she reminds us, explaining that while AI can help with outlines and frameworks, authentic human connection remains essential. Content must feel like it comes from a person, not an algorithm—a distinction today's savvy audiences can readily identify.
For aspiring marketers, Gray offers valuable advice: gain broad exposure at larger agencies to discover your niche, but be cautious about accepting responsibilities beyond your current abilities. The agency world provides invaluable training, but premature advancement can lead to failure.
Want to experience the difference a team of senior specialists can make for your marketing? Connect with Kinetic Marketing Communications on LinkedIn or visit KineticComms.com to learn how their collective approach delivers agency-quality work without the traditional overhead.
This podcast is proudly sponsored by USC Annenberg’s Master of Science in Digital Media Management (MSDMM) program. An online master’s designed to prepare practitioners to understand the evolving media landscape, make data-driven and ethical decisions, and build a more equitable future by leading diverse teams with the technical, artistic, analytical, and production skills needed to create engaging content and technologies for the global marketplace. Learn more or apply today at https://dmm.usc.edu.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Mediascape insights from digital
changemakers, a speaker seriesand podcast brought to you by
USC Annenberg's Digital MediaManagement Program.
Join us as we unlock thesecrets to success in an
increasingly digital world.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I am thrilled today to have a human and
person-centered marketer, katieGray, kinetic Marketing
Communications.
We were having such a greatconversation before we jumped on
that I was like, wait, I needto push record right now.
Thank you so much for joiningme on Mediascape.
Oh, thank you for having me.
Yeah, so I would love first ofall.
(00:44):
Well, thank you for having me.
Yeah, so I would love first ofall to get a little background
to our audience on your journeyinto starting your own
women-owned top-tier agency.
Did you always know you wantedto go into marketing?
Because I know from yourprofile you have a lot of CMO
roles and you've had a lot ofreally great roles at different
agencies.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
The answer is kind of .
So since a young age I'vealways had a creative
sensibility.
I've been in the performingarts since I was three, growing
up as a dancer and doing musicaltheater, and then also I just I
also kind of had a draw tojournalism.
It's weird, I've got this likehybrid brain.
My mom is very creative and shewas a dancer, so I get that
(01:23):
from her.
My father was an engineer and sohe's very pragmatic and logical
, and so when I had to pick amajor in college, I kind of felt
like that those twosensibilities worked really well
for marketing and advertising.
So the answer is kind of, but Idid sort of stay on that path.
I graduated and turned in anagency, ended up working for a
(01:47):
commercial film productioncompany and then segwaying that
and doing like large scale mediaevents and then ended up
getting kind of back into mycore roots with agency in 2007.
And since then I've beenleading cross-functional teams
in executive leadership rolesand as well as in-house to help
(02:08):
mid to enterprise levelbusinesses achieve their growth
goals through marketingcommunication strategies.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, and you know, I think a lot of these
conversations that I have withother marketers is around what
are the recent trends?
How is AI playing a role?
But with you, I think we have alittle bit of a different
conversation, and one that Ithink is so vitally important,
because you really stress thepeople and why it's important to
(02:35):
have the right people in theroom and the right people
delivering each part of yourtactic and your strategy.
So can you talk a little bitabout what that looked like when
you decided to go out on yourown, start, your own agency, and
why this is one of theprinciples that you led with
Right?
Speaker 3 (02:51):
So I feel like agencies are great training
grounds for younger marketers.
I mean, it kind of throws youinto the fire.
You can learn a lot aboutdifferent disciplines and kind
of figure out where your nicheis.
The issue is in traditionalagency world.
You know, I feel like there's amisconception.
(03:12):
Well, sorry, I'm jumping around, but what I would say is the
problem is sometimes they're putin the driver's seat before
they're ready, right, and thatcan be harmful to the client
because they're having someonewho hasn't developed the skills
to really be able to perform thework at the level that they
need to to get the results thatthe client's looking for, and
(03:33):
then obviously that's going tobackfire and you're going to
have brush fires that you haveto put out and stuff.
So I think it's best like ifyou've got a younger marketer
who's working for a larger grouplike you know, like maybe an
Accenture or McKinsey orDeloitte or even a larger agency
to where they get exposed toall of the different disciplines
(03:53):
and the types of work that arepart of the marketing universe,
but they're not forced to takethat front row seat or that
driver's seat to be able toperform the work in front, you
know, and have to deliver it onbehalf of the company, and so
I've just seen that happen overtime.
Plus, there's a lot of in thatkind of space, there can be a
(04:15):
lot of burnout and overwork.
You know, because the W2 modelI mean, you're on salary,
there's no overtime.
You know you're going tostretch those junior level
marketers as much as they can.
They're going to have trouble,like you know, having a work
life balance and that sort ofthing.
And then that also falls on thepeople who are really good at
their jobs.
You know people who perform ata high level, who are senior
(04:37):
level people.
Same thing happens with thosepeople and then as a result
you'll see a lot of attrition inagencies and that kind of thing
.
And then the continuity for theclient becomes an issue because
you know you keep changing yourcontact person and that sort of
thing.
And so that leads into sort ofwhy I started.
(04:57):
Kinetic is.
It's a marketing collective ofestablished career, established
contractors.
So we're like your generalcontractor.
And what's wonderful about itis we're not confined to the zip
code.
Our team is everywherethroughout the country.
We've got people in New York,in California, in Denver, in
Michigan, I mean like everywhere, in Iowa, like we've got this
(05:21):
incredible curated team who hasworked together before on
multiple projects.
They're proven, they're tested,they're all senior level folks
that aren't going anywhere.
So like contacts and thecontinuity of work is not going
to change and because we're notstrapped, we're not like
constrained by all this overheadthat we have to deal with, it
(05:42):
just allows us that scalabilityand we're price competitive with
traditional agencies.
And so I think after thepandemic, when remote working
was proven and more of thesepeople became available, it just
sort of clicked.
And you'll see other groups,like Upwork and you know that
sort of thing, where you canpull these freelance contractors
but they're in a silo andthey're not really thinking
about the comprehensive overallplan.
(06:03):
But they're in a silo andthey're not really thinking
about the comprehensive overallplan and how they fit in.
Or you know, I mean usuallyit's just these sort of one-off
things, whereas we're moreholistic in our approach, we
know which team members to pullin at the right time.
We can plug and play, but westill have to have a sense of
what the overall strategy is sowe can serve you the best way
(06:24):
possible.
So, anyway, that's a very longanswer, but that is the reason
why I started the business.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yeah, and that's fantastic.
I think about my early days asa marketer and everything I did
was very organic.
I came up through the clubworld and promoting and got
thrown into a marketing agency.
But really my first interactionwith big advertisers was I
didn't have a level ofsophistication I hadn't been
trained on, and this was beforethe internet.
(06:53):
So how do you create a greatpresentation for a client like
Absolute, for a magazine?
Again, I'm dating myself alittle bit, but I remember
flying to New York and having topresent to Absolute's agency
and having some great ideas, butI didn't know what order do I
put these ideas in?
How do I really make thispresentation pop?
Because I was in my early 20sand I'll just do this and go
(07:16):
present and, to your point, Iwas not the person who should
have been presenting.
I should have known a littlebit more, and so it was an
interesting experience for me.
But I also know that's why wedidn't get level of advertising
that we could have, because Ididn't have that sophistication
and then other roles as well.
You know it's.
It is really important to havethe right people and people who
(07:39):
understand the insides.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Right, and I think there's ways to expose the
younger marketers, because I dothink it's important to push and
see how they perform and havethem take that risk and stuff,
and the company needs to bebehind them.
But there's a certain not on astage like what you mentioned,
or when it's a critical projectfor a client, like you know,
(08:01):
where all eyes are going to beon that project.
I think you've got to be reallycareful in how you choose where
they it's like stepping stones.
You know where they take thoserisks, because I think a lot of
how you learn is when you fail,and I do think everybody needs
to fail.
But boy, I mean seriously, Iused to joke like I would do my
(08:22):
job so well when I was younger,you know, and I'd be like, oh,
I'm knocking this out of thepark.
But, boy, when I screwed up, itwas a biggie.
You know, it's like I love whenit happens.
There are these huge failuresthat you're like, okay, never,
ever going to do that again, didyou have?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
any inciting incidents to your point that
happened, that made you realize,ooh, I want to start this other
kind of agency and I'm going topull in the best and I'm going
to pull in people who are reallyhighly skilled but also
specialists in each area.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Right?
Yes, because what you'll see,you know, at traditional
agencies that positionthemselves as full service.
I can't think of a one thatliterally covers every specialty
and subspecialty imaginable inthe marketing universe, within
(09:19):
the confines of that W-2structure Forever.
They have supplemented throughcontractors.
You have to.
You kind of have to think ofthe marketing field like the
medical field.
I mean, you have cardiologists,you've got neurologists, you've
got endocrinologists, you haveall of these, and then you've
got subspecialties.
Even within those specialties,like in cardiology, people might
(09:41):
be, you know, performing ormaybe hyper focused on AFib and
you know surgeries or proceduresrelated to the same thing with
you know, all of these differentmarketing is the same way with
SEO strategists and you've gotgood user experience strategists
who are different from contentstrategists who are different
(10:01):
from PR, and PR has asubspecialty of crisis
management.
People who are really good atcrisis management may not be
good at media pitching.
So it's just, I don't.
I think there is amisunderstanding of how
specialized this field is, andso, having experienced
everything I have, I realized,wow, what if I could create
(10:28):
something where I could pull allthe specialties I wanted
without the confines of that W-2structure, with that overhead?
And then you know you don'thave any junior marketers.
These are people who are beingsupplemented by Deloitte's, by
Accenture's, these contractorsthat we work with because
they're freaking fantastic, andthen you plug them in.
Your client gets the best work.
You're not putting out brushfires all day, and so our model
(10:50):
is definitely not structured for, I would say, nurturing young
marketers.
I still think they need to startat those places that we talked
about, like the bigger agenciesand stuff.
But for us at this point in ourcareer, as well as my business
partner, megan Swaggart, we justreally wanted to be able to do
the work, do it well, work withpeople who have the capacity to
(11:12):
do the work, you know, from askill level, from a bandwidth
level, because we've got, youknow, all of these different
resources that we can use, where, in an agency, you're just
dumped on Like it doesn't matterif you don't think about it.
There's really not a lot ofempathy for that.
They just want to get the workdone.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
There's a couple things that stood out with that.
One is we talked about needingthe skill level, right, and
before we jumped on, you weretalking about, well, they need
to actually not just know thetheoretical aspects, but they
actually need to know how topractice, and I feel like we do
try to pull a lot of that in ourprogram.
They have to have a capstone,so they have to understand how
(11:50):
to put together a marketing plan, a content strategy, budgets.
So it is more of a generalistoverview, right, but they're
getting a little bit ofinformation and hopefully they
can figure out what they want tohone in on, but other programs
may not.
I have heard of cases wherepeople graduate with a master's
and they go to an agency andthey get their first task and
(12:11):
they have no idea what to do andthey're calling their
professors.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
I've witnessed it Like I've witnessed that with
someone who worked on my team atanother agency where she had a
master's degree and she was paidreally well but she just
struggled to do the job.
And so there's exactly what yousaid.
I think as much as you can putlike real world experiences and
(12:34):
what you were saying is perfectbeing able to build a budget,
being able to build a plan, youknow, just having that
experience is really going, thatpractical experience in
marketing is really going toserve those folks well who
transition to agency.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
So for Kinetic was it a difficult sell to get other
people to come in as contractors.
And you're nodding no foranybody who's not widespread yet
you know, we're definitely werun.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
The obstacle that we run into right now is like if we
were to reply to an RFP that'sout there, because a lot of our
work comes from referrals andrelationships that we've had in
(13:25):
the past and so, but like if wewere just to blindly respond to
an RFP.
One of the questions thatmatters to them is how many
employees do you have?
And so I'm like, well, it's awhole lot if you count, how you
know, if you count their 1099s.
But like that's kind of thedisconnect is that there is
(13:48):
still this mindset that thenumber of people that you have
in your house is what matters.
And we have that number ofpeople, but they wouldn't you
know.
We'd have to explain.
You know how that works and it'sreally more of a benefit to
them because we're pricecompetitive with people in the
house.
But you're not going to havepeople who don't are not super
experienced marketers, you know,in the role.
(14:10):
A lot of times we hear too that, like the people that go and do
the pitches, that the agenciesare not the people who are
serving the count.
It's going to be a wholedifferent team of people that
you haven't met, or the teamchanges because of attrition,
like we talked about, because ofburnout and all that, and we
don't have that problem.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
And that's beautiful as well.
I've been in agencies smalleragencies, where I remember one
case somebody started.
They came in, they were workingon a social media team, I think
they last few days and thenthey just mailed their laptop
back and just didn't show up andsaid I'm done, because they
wanted to clock out at five andthey were the junior person and
they still had a lot to learnand they were like no, you have
(14:50):
to stay a little bit laterbecause we really need to finish
this for the client and they'rejust so.
That's another thing that youcan run into when you're working
.
You know, we're trying tofigure out how to work with
different generations.
Yes, wow.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
That's true, it's true.
You know, I'm yeah, I don'twant to, I'm going to date
myself too, but I'm an Xer andso, like I mean we just had to
roll up our sleeves and do itand we didn't ask questions.
I mean they used to call us thelazy generation, but I'm like I
don't think we are.
I think we're very scrappy andI think we just always had to
make it work, as Tim Gunn wouldsay in Project Runway.
(15:28):
But like, yeah, it's definitelya different mindset and I would
definitely not be the personyou would want to talk to about
getting into the brain of one ofyou know, into that generation.
It's a generation that I havetrouble identifying with, just
because I do not post my life onsocial media.
I am, you know, I'm more of aprivate person, and so you know,
(15:51):
anyway, it's just it's sodifferent, it's a different
world.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
And another thing that's really different these
days is, of course, artificialintelligence.
I remember when we startedtalking about generative AI and
the program, of course, wasrunning way before that, and now
it went from havingconversations about are you
using gen AI?
To you must use gen AI, andhere's how it can make things
easier that these are tools.
(16:16):
They're not going to replacethe human element.
So I'd love to hear a littlebit about your thoughts, ways
that maybe your team weaves insome elements of AI, but also
has that really human-centeredstrategy Right?
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Well, I mean, just remember, like buying is 95%
emotion, right, it's.
Everybody still makes decisionsthrough emotion, and so I do
feel like there's a place for it.
Again, everything is driven bypeople.
You have to know the rightqueries, you have to know the
right prompts, you have to beable to, you know, make sure
(16:50):
that you're getting what youwant out of it.
I feel like it's useful increating outlines for different
pieces of content that you'redoing and that sort of thing
Definitely help guide maybethemes that you want to
elaborate on, and that sort ofthing.
But I would never, anytime itspits anything out, the human
(17:14):
has to be involved to edit it,to shape it.
It has to be your own voice, ithas to feel like it's coming
from you and not from a computer, and so I would say, you know,
we use it from a contentperspective, less so on the
design, because I definitelyfeel like, or voiceover,
anything like that from a talentperspective or design
(17:37):
perspective, because I thinkthat it's deceiving, I don't
feel like it's authentic, and sothere's a place for it, and
that would, I would say that'skind of where we're using it
more is just shortcuts aroundoutlines and, you know, thoughts
around content and that sort ofthing.
But we're not like going, we'renot asking at a query and to
(18:01):
spit out an article and go hereclient Because it's, yeah, it's,
it's good, but it's not thatgood yet.
It still has to be authentic andcome from a human.
Again, I mean, I think peopleare smarter than you think they
are in terms of being able totell.
(18:21):
If you know what's AI generatedand what's not, I think it can
be deceiving, but when you'recaught in the act, it's going to
bite you in the butt.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Yeah, absolutely Well .
And this takes me to a coupleof questions around when you are
first onboarding a client andthey might not know what they
don't know right.
Maybe they have some ideas ofwhat kinds of tactics, what
kinds of strategy they need toimplement, but they might not
fully engage.
So how do you start thatprocess and decide how you're
(18:54):
going to build out that team foreach client?
Speaker 3 (18:57):
So I mean, the number one question you ask is how
success is going to be measured.
You know like why are we doingthis plan in the first place?
You know what are theobjectives, what are you trying
to achieve and how do you wantto measure those results, and
then we basically create a planaround that.
You know every everyone isdifferent.
Every single one is different.
(19:18):
I mean, you've got business tobusiness clients who are in the
energy space we were talkingbefore.
You know, entertainmentmarketing is completely
different.
Healthcare B2C marketing iscompletely different than
healthcare B2B marketing.
And so you know, first of all,it comes back to what does
success metrics look like?
You know what's the timeline forthe campaign or the initiative
(19:41):
that you're trying to achieve,obviously asking about budget,
because the sky's the limit.
If you don't care, we can puttogether a plan for as much as
you want, but usually there aresome limitations there, and so
we need to understand sort ofthe ballpark of the investment
that they want to make.
So, looking at all of thosefactors, and then the first
(20:04):
thing that you want to do isalso understand if the current
positioning matches thepositioning based on you know,
the brand and based on theobjectives that they're trying
to achieve, because you want tolook at positioning and
messaging first and get that youknow the brand and based on the
objectives that they're tryingto achieve, because you want to
look at positioning andmessaging first and get that you
know honed in, and then youwant to develop a multimedia or,
(20:24):
you know, channel strategyaround those objectives as well.
And all of that really tells us, then, what we're going to need
in terms of media spin, thetype of media, the type of
vehicles, the format in which wewant to communicate the content
, and the humans that we need toperform all of this work, who
(20:45):
are specialists in each of thesedifferent categories.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yeah, and to that point, you talked about
different industries.
So I would love to hear arethere specific industries that
you work with that are yoursweet spot, or are you industry
agnostic?
Speaker 3 (20:59):
We're pretty much industry agnostic, since so many
of our team members haveexperience in a lot of different
spaces, but I would say thatyou know we really do focus on
mid to enterprise levelbusinesses and we have probably
more experience in, like thehealthcare tech, financial
(21:20):
services.
Energy is a big one toosustainable energy and
professional services, as wellas entertainment, so those would
be our big ones.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah, so quite a few categories, but that's fantastic
because then you have the teammembers who can plug it based on
their specialties as well Notjust the skill set, but the
industry, perhaps as well.
Yes, exactly, when you startedyour agency, you said it was
really easy to get the rightpeople to say yes Sounds like
(21:52):
you were able to onboard clientspretty quickly because of your
vast experience and yourbusiness partners experience and
your relationships.
Did you have any hiccups whenyou're figuring out how to?
Because you had a constructwith how you wanted to bring
team members in.
So I'd love to hear you know.
Were there any challenges?
Speaker 3 (22:10):
There haven't really been any so far in terms of
bringing in the team, justbecause you know again, just the
network that I had was soextensive and that she has is so
extensive, and then obviouslythey know people and then it
just snowballed.
So I would say building theteam was one of the easier parts
(22:30):
of it.
Believe it or not, there's somuch wonderful talent out there.
The hardest part're going tolaugh is really thinking about
like when you're building abrand, it's like your baby and
it's like, okay, I have to birththis thing from scratch.
Who am I Like, what is my whyand what colors express that and
(22:55):
what you know positioningexpresses that and so that I'm
so used to serving clients andcause you know positioning
expresses that.
And so that I'm so used toserving clients and because you
know, helping them, I'm adiagnostician of their stuff,
their issues, their brand, myown.
I've always served other people,so to have to look inward was a
(23:15):
very enlightening andinteresting experience and I'm
very proud of the brand and Ithink it reflects I mean, it
reflects both of us, megan andmyself.
That's one of the reasons thatshe is now co-owner of the
business.
We are partners in Chromebecause philosophically we agree
on all of the same things.
(23:36):
We believe people should havemutual.
You know everyone should haveclients, and our team members
alike.
We work, we have mutual respectfor each other.
We're all self-disciplined todo the work.
We don't have to have somebody,you know, hitting us with a
whip, you know, to get our workdone.
We lead with empathy and heartand kindness, and so we're very
(23:58):
much aligned there.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yeah, but isn't that funny?
It's that thing of I can bedoing something for a client or
I can be talking about somethingwith my students, but then I
have to look at don't look atwhat I've done, because I'm
really bad at I don't have timefor social media I'm really bad
at doing.
(24:19):
I used to be really good at itwhen I had more time, but now,
yeah, there are things that wedon't do for ourselves as
marketers that are things thatwe preach to our clients and
have to take that look in and go.
Oh wait, what is my brand?
Speaker 3 (24:28):
And I want me to drink my own Kool-Aid.
I literally had to drink my ownKool-Aid.
I mean, I had to plan the photoshoot, I had to do the photo
shoot.
I drank my own Kool-Aid becauseI'm like okay, you got to
practice what you preach here,kid.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
And it sounds like a lot of other agencies, even
larger agencies, are starting toreally look at this model and
go this is the way of the future.
I live in California, so when Istarted my last PR firm, I got
really panicked because we havedifferent restrictions around
who's a contractor versus anemployee.
So I went, okay, I have to makeeverybody an employee.
And then I didn't think aboutbut if they're in five states,
(25:07):
what do I have to report on eachstate?
What do I have to report oneach state?
And honestly, I probably couldhave stayed with contractors
because the size of my businessand because of the different
levers I was pulling.
So is that something thatyou've come across at all?
Is that complexity of havingcontractors in different states
and having people really allover?
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Not at all.
I mean, it's just been seamless, not even an iota.
And I will say just in terms oflike, I don't know if this
model is for everyone.
It really depends on the goalof the professional services
industry, like in advertisingand marketing, does not have
(26:02):
huge margins and really theequity is the people and if the
people don't stay, it really itjust I've not seen I've only
seen it happen one time in mycareer that it was really done
successfully and it's it's.
That's a tough nut to crack, soit really depends on the owner
and what they intend to do withthe business.
With Megan and me, we alwaysknew that wasn't our intention
(26:26):
to sell or anything.
Our intention was to besuccessful in the moment like
and to be able to serve theclients while we have the
capacity and you know we can andyou know we can save the money
for retirement or whatever, butnot to sell it and to make a big
chunk of change if that makessense.
So our goal is just to reallydo the work and live in the now
(26:47):
and not worry about the futurewhen it comes to passing it on
or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yeah, and that's a really refreshing perspective
because I think sometimes peopleforget about living in the
present and just taking care ofthe clients we have now, because
they're so future focused.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
So yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, so I'd love to hear a little bit about what
your plans are moving forward.
Are you going to continueexpansion, finding new people
who are these high levelspecialists to come in and be
part of the team?
Oh sure, I mean, we're alwaystalking to potential contractors
who?
Speaker 3 (27:16):
could be a part of the team and we Are you like oh
sure, I mean we're alwaystalking to potential contractors
who could be a part of the teamand we're still in growth mode
right now.
I mean, we're a young business.
We just started, you know, Istarted the business in August
2023.
And so Megan officially joinedlike we've officially became
co-owners in January of thisyear, and then we did a launch
in February.
(27:36):
Right, you know, we did a hardlaunch in February.
We didn't do it in January,honestly, because of the
sensitivity around the fires inCalifornia.
We contributed to the effort.
That meant a lot to us becausewe have, you know, stakeholders
and friends who live out there,and so we wanted to show our
support for Cali, and also oneof our clients has a lot of
locations in that area as well.
(27:58):
So we kind of pushed our littlelaunch back to the spring.
So we're young, we're growingand, yes, our intention is to
continue to grow because we haveall of these wonderful people
we can put to work.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Fantastic.
I probably have several peoplethat I want to send your way
Okay great.
Who have left the agency world.
Want to send your way?
Okay, great who have left theagency world and are, you know,
awesome, yeah, so that'll be fun.
But for those people who arejust, you know, maybe mid career
there or they're just startingout, they're wanting to work at
(28:31):
an agency or they're wanting toget that experience so that they
can eventually become the kindof people you, what are some
recommendations that you wouldmake for them?
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Like I said I would, if you don't know what niche you
want to be in, like the youngermarketers, I mean I didn't know
, I was kind of I came upthrough, I would say, like the
account service route, which isreally more of the generalist
you know PCP and medical termsroute, to where you kind of know
a little bit about everythingso that you can see how all of
(29:03):
these different pieces fittogether and can develop a
strategy and plug in thosepeople and those tactics
accordingly.
But I would say I meandefinitely get exposure, like I
said, in a mid to large sizeagency, like an Accenture or a
bigger agency and even a smalleragency, for that matter.
(29:23):
I would just be wary to makesure that they don't put a
responsibility on you to dosomething that you're not ready
to do you know what I mean orthat you're not comfortable
doing.
But I do think that it's agreat place to learn, to get
that hands-on exposure and thento grow from, you know, and
it'll open the door to a lot ofdifferent opportunities, because
(29:44):
I feel like once you've workedin an agency you can work
in-house pretty easily becauseyou just have such a broader
perspective.
That's just been my journey,because I've done both, but
everybody's different.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Amazing both, but everybody's different.
Amazing.
Well, what's the best way forpeople to learn more about the
agency?
To reach out, because there arealso people who have businesses
of all levels who may want touse your services.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Sure, so we invite you to follow us on LinkedIn.
Like I said, we're trying tobuild our community and you can
find us on LinkedIn at KineticMarketing Communications LLC,
and our website isKineticComscom, so Kinetic, and
then C-O-M-M-Scom.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Fantastic and Katie, any last words that you want to
share with us about where yousee the industry heading or what
continues to inspire you tobuild out this model and keep
going.
What continues to?
Speaker 3 (30:39):
inspire you to build out this model and keep going.
I would just say just stay trueto yourself, remember, just
don't lose heart.
We're all humans and keephumanity as part of everything
you do.
I think we get too caught up inthe rat race and lose sight of
what's really important in life,and so I would say, you know,
(31:03):
just never lose sight withwhat's important in life.
You know I mean, I'm someonewho has lost a couple of dear
friends in two years, you know,or too young to lose them, and
it really puts things intoperspective.
So just keep it all.
Keep it all into perspectiveand if you feel like something's
toxic, it is, you know, andjust try to find a way to get
out of it and live your bestlife, because we're not here for
(31:24):
very long and I know that's notwhere the industry is going.
It's more of a bigger picturesentiment, but I do feel that's
just from my heart what Ibelieve.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Fantastic.
Well, thank you so much forcoming on talking about this
model, because I don't know thatwe've had this conversation on
this podcast before aboutbringing in really high-level
specialists.
How to form the new normal ofwhat we hope an agency can look
like in the future thateverybody has more agility.
So awesome, awesome, l'm glad,yeah, and thank you to everybody
(32:00):
who's watching this episode orlistening to it.
This is Mediascape Insightsfrom Digital Changemakers,
brought to you by USCAnnenberg's MS in Digital Media
Management Program.
I'm your co-host, annikaJackson, and we'll be back again
with another great guest nextweek.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
To learn more about the Master of Science in Digital
Media Management program, visitus on the web at dmmuscedu.
Welcome to Mediascape insights from digital
changemakers, a speaker seriesand podcast brought to you by
USC Annenberg's Digital MediaManagement Program.
Join us as we unlock thesecrets to success in an
increasingly digital world.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I am thrilled today to have a human and
person-centered marketer, katieGray, kinetic Marketing
Communications.
We were having such a greatconversation before we jumped on
that I was like, wait, I needto push record right now.
Thank you so much for joiningme on Mediascape.
Oh, thank you for having me.
Yeah, so I would love first ofall.
(00:44):
Well, thank you for having me.
Yeah, so I would love first ofall to get a little background
to our audience on your journeyinto starting your own
women-owned top-tier agency.
Did you always know you wantedto go into marketing?
Because I know from yourprofile you have a lot of CMO
roles and you've had a lot ofreally great roles at different
agencies.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
The answer is kind of .
So since a young age I'vealways had a creative
sensibility.
I've been in the performingarts since I was three, growing
up as a dancer and doing musicaltheater, and then also I just I
also kind of had a draw tojournalism.
It's weird, I've got this likehybrid brain.
My mom is very creative and shewas a dancer, so I get that
(01:23):
from her.
My father was an engineer and sohe's very pragmatic and logical
, and so when I had to pick amajor in college, I kind of felt
like that those twosensibilities worked really well
for marketing and advertising.
So the answer is kind of, but Idid sort of stay on that path.
I graduated and turned in anagency, ended up working for a
(01:47):
commercial film productioncompany and then segwaying that
and doing like large scale mediaevents and then ended up
getting kind of back into mycore roots with agency in 2007.
And since then I've beenleading cross-functional teams
in executive leadership rolesand as well as in-house to help
(02:08):
mid to enterprise levelbusinesses achieve their growth
goals through marketingcommunication strategies.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, and you know, I think a lot of these
conversations that I have withother marketers is around what
are the recent trends?
How is AI playing a role?
But with you, I think we have alittle bit of a different
conversation, and one that Ithink is so vitally important,
because you really stress thepeople and why it's important to
(02:35):
have the right people in theroom and the right people
delivering each part of yourtactic and your strategy.
So can you talk a little bitabout what that looked like when
you decided to go out on yourown, start, your own agency, and
why this is one of theprinciples that you led with
Right?
Speaker 3 (02:51):
So I feel like agencies are great training
grounds for younger marketers.
I mean, it kind of throws youinto the fire.
You can learn a lot aboutdifferent disciplines and kind
of figure out where your nicheis.
The issue is in traditionalagency world.
You know, I feel like there's amisconception.
(03:12):
Well, sorry, I'm jumping around, but what I would say is the
problem is sometimes they're putin the driver's seat before
they're ready, right, and thatcan be harmful to the client
because they're having someonewho hasn't developed the skills
to really be able to perform thework at the level that they
need to to get the results thatthe client's looking for, and
(03:33):
then obviously that's going tobackfire and you're going to
have brush fires that you haveto put out and stuff.
So I think it's best like ifyou've got a younger marketer
who's working for a larger grouplike you know, like maybe an
Accenture or McKinsey orDeloitte or even a larger agency
to where they get exposed toall of the different disciplines
(03:53):
and the types of work that arepart of the marketing universe,
but they're not forced to takethat front row seat or that
driver's seat to be able toperform the work in front, you
know, and have to deliver it onbehalf of the company, and so
I've just seen that happen overtime.
Plus, there's a lot of in thatkind of space, there can be a
(04:15):
lot of burnout and overwork.
You know, because the W2 modelI mean, you're on salary,
there's no overtime.
You know you're going tostretch those junior level
marketers as much as they can.
They're going to have trouble,like you know, having a work
life balance and that sort ofthing.
And then that also falls on thepeople who are really good at
their jobs.
You know people who perform ata high level, who are senior
(04:37):
level people.
Same thing happens with thosepeople and then as a result
you'll see a lot of attrition inagencies and that kind of thing
.
And then the continuity for theclient becomes an issue because
you know you keep changing yourcontact person and that sort of
thing.
And so that leads into sort ofwhy I started.
(04:57):
Kinetic is.
It's a marketing collective ofestablished career, established
contractors.
So we're like your generalcontractor.
And what's wonderful about itis we're not confined to the zip
code.
Our team is everywherethroughout the country.
We've got people in New York,in California, in Denver, in
Michigan, I mean like everywhere, in Iowa, like we've got this
(05:21):
incredible curated team who hasworked together before on
multiple projects.
They're proven, they're tested,they're all senior level folks
that aren't going anywhere.
So like contacts and thecontinuity of work is not going
to change and because we're notstrapped, we're not like
constrained by all this overheadthat we have to deal with, it
(05:42):
just allows us that scalabilityand we're price competitive with
traditional agencies.
And so I think after thepandemic, when remote working
was proven and more of thesepeople became available, it just
sort of clicked.
And you'll see other groups,like Upwork and you know that
sort of thing, where you canpull these freelance contractors
but they're in a silo andthey're not really thinking
about the comprehensive overallplan.
(06:03):
But they're in a silo andthey're not really thinking
about the comprehensive overallplan and how they fit in.
Or you know, I mean usuallyit's just these sort of one-off
things, whereas we're moreholistic in our approach, we
know which team members to pullin at the right time.
We can plug and play, but westill have to have a sense of
what the overall strategy is sowe can serve you the best way
(06:24):
possible.
So, anyway, that's a very longanswer, but that is the reason
why I started the business.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yeah, and that's fantastic.
I think about my early days asa marketer and everything I did
was very organic.
I came up through the clubworld and promoting and got
thrown into a marketing agency.
But really my first interactionwith big advertisers was I
didn't have a level ofsophistication I hadn't been
trained on, and this was beforethe internet.
(06:53):
So how do you create a greatpresentation for a client like
Absolute, for a magazine?
Again, I'm dating myself alittle bit, but I remember
flying to New York and having topresent to Absolute's agency
and having some great ideas, butI didn't know what order do I
put these ideas in?
How do I really make thispresentation pop?
Because I was in my early 20sand I'll just do this and go
(07:16):
present and, to your point, Iwas not the person who should
have been presenting.
I should have known a littlebit more, and so it was an
interesting experience for me.
But I also know that's why wedidn't get level of advertising
that we could have, because Ididn't have that sophistication
and then other roles as well.
You know it's.
It is really important to havethe right people and people who
(07:39):
understand the insides.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Right, and I think there's ways to expose the
younger marketers, because I dothink it's important to push and
see how they perform and havethem take that risk and stuff,
and the company needs to bebehind them.
But there's a certain not on astage like what you mentioned,
or when it's a critical projectfor a client, like you know,
(08:01):
where all eyes are going to beon that project.
I think you've got to be reallycareful in how you choose where
they it's like stepping stones.
You know where they take thoserisks, because I think a lot of
how you learn is when you fail,and I do think everybody needs
to fail.
But boy, I mean seriously, Iused to joke like I would do my
(08:22):
job so well when I was younger,you know, and I'd be like, oh,
I'm knocking this out of thepark.
But, boy, when I screwed up, itwas a biggie.
You know, it's like I love whenit happens.
There are these huge failuresthat you're like, okay, never,
ever going to do that again, didyou have?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
any inciting incidents to your point that
happened, that made you realize,ooh, I want to start this other
kind of agency and I'm going topull in the best and I'm going
to pull in people who are reallyhighly skilled but also
specialists in each area.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Right?
Yes, because what you'll see,you know, at traditional
agencies that positionthemselves as full service.
I can't think of a one thatliterally covers every specialty
and subspecialty imaginable inthe marketing universe, within
(09:19):
the confines of that W-2structure Forever.
They have supplemented throughcontractors.
You have to.
You kind of have to think ofthe marketing field like the
medical field.
I mean, you have cardiologists,you've got neurologists, you've
got endocrinologists, you haveall of these, and then you've
got subspecialties.
Even within those specialties,like in cardiology, people might
(09:41):
be, you know, performing ormaybe hyper focused on AFib and
you know surgeries or proceduresrelated to the same thing with
you know, all of these differentmarketing is the same way with
SEO strategists and you've gotgood user experience strategists
who are different from contentstrategists who are different
(10:01):
from PR, and PR has asubspecialty of crisis
management.
People who are really good atcrisis management may not be
good at media pitching.
So it's just, I don't.
I think there is amisunderstanding of how
specialized this field is, andso, having experienced
everything I have, I realized,wow, what if I could create
(10:28):
something where I could pull allthe specialties I wanted
without the confines of that W-2structure, with that overhead?
And then you know you don'thave any junior marketers.
These are people who are beingsupplemented by Deloitte's, by
Accenture's, these contractorsthat we work with because
they're freaking fantastic, andthen you plug them in.
Your client gets the best work.
You're not putting out brushfires all day, and so our model
(10:50):
is definitely not structured for, I would say, nurturing young
marketers.
I still think they need to startat those places that we talked
about, like the bigger agenciesand stuff.
But for us at this point in ourcareer, as well as my business
partner, megan Swaggart, we justreally wanted to be able to do
the work, do it well, work withpeople who have the capacity to
(11:12):
do the work, you know, from askill level, from a bandwidth
level, because we've got, youknow, all of these different
resources that we can use, where, in an agency, you're just
dumped on Like it doesn't matterif you don't think about it.
There's really not a lot ofempathy for that.
They just want to get the workdone.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
There's a couple things that stood out with that.
One is we talked about needingthe skill level, right, and
before we jumped on, you weretalking about, well, they need
to actually not just know thetheoretical aspects, but they
actually need to know how topractice, and I feel like we do
try to pull a lot of that in ourprogram.
They have to have a capstone,so they have to understand how
(11:50):
to put together a marketing plan, a content strategy, budgets.
So it is more of a generalistoverview, right, but they're
getting a little bit ofinformation and hopefully they
can figure out what they want tohone in on, but other programs
may not.
I have heard of cases wherepeople graduate with a master's
and they go to an agency andthey get their first task and
(12:11):
they have no idea what to do andthey're calling their
professors.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
I've witnessed it Like I've witnessed that with
someone who worked on my team atanother agency where she had a
master's degree and she was paidreally well but she just
struggled to do the job.
And so there's exactly what yousaid.
I think as much as you can putlike real world experiences and
(12:34):
what you were saying is perfectbeing able to build a budget,
being able to build a plan, youknow, just having that
experience is really going, thatpractical experience in
marketing is really going toserve those folks well who
transition to agency.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
So for Kinetic was it a difficult sell to get other
people to come in as contractors.
And you're nodding no foranybody who's not widespread yet
you know, we're definitely werun.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
The obstacle that we run into right now is like if we
were to reply to an RFP that'sout there, because a lot of our
work comes from referrals andrelationships that we've had in
(13:25):
the past and so, but like if wewere just to blindly respond to
an RFP.
One of the questions thatmatters to them is how many
employees do you have?
And so I'm like, well, it's awhole lot if you count, how you
know, if you count their 1099s.
But like that's kind of thedisconnect is that there is
(13:48):
still this mindset that thenumber of people that you have
in your house is what matters.
And we have that number ofpeople, but they wouldn't you
know.
We'd have to explain.
You know how that works and it'sreally more of a benefit to
them because we're pricecompetitive with people in the
house.
But you're not going to havepeople who don't are not super
experienced marketers, you know,in the role.
(14:10):
A lot of times we hear too that, like the people that go and do
the pitches, that the agenciesare not the people who are
serving the count.
It's going to be a wholedifferent team of people that
you haven't met, or the teamchanges because of attrition,
like we talked about, because ofburnout and all that, and we
don't have that problem.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
And that's beautiful as well.
I've been in agencies smalleragencies, where I remember one
case somebody started.
They came in, they were workingon a social media team, I think
they last few days and thenthey just mailed their laptop
back and just didn't show up andsaid I'm done, because they
wanted to clock out at five andthey were the junior person and
they still had a lot to learnand they were like no, you have
(14:50):
to stay a little bit laterbecause we really need to finish
this for the client and they'rejust so.
That's another thing that youcan run into when you're working
.
You know, we're trying tofigure out how to work with
different generations.
Yes, wow.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
That's true, it's true.
You know, I'm yeah, I don'twant to, I'm going to date
myself too, but I'm an Xer andso, like I mean we just had to
roll up our sleeves and do itand we didn't ask questions.
I mean they used to call us thelazy generation, but I'm like I
don't think we are.
I think we're very scrappy andI think we just always had to
make it work, as Tim Gunn wouldsay in Project Runway.
(15:28):
But like, yeah, it's definitelya different mindset and I would
definitely not be the personyou would want to talk to about
getting into the brain of one ofyou know, into that generation.
It's a generation that I havetrouble identifying with, just
because I do not post my life onsocial media.
I am, you know, I'm more of aprivate person, and so you know,
(15:51):
anyway, it's just it's sodifferent, it's a different
world.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
And another thing that's really different these
days is, of course, artificialintelligence.
I remember when we startedtalking about generative AI and
the program, of course, wasrunning way before that, and now
it went from havingconversations about are you
using gen AI?
To you must use gen AI, andhere's how it can make things
easier that these are tools.
(16:16):
They're not going to replacethe human element.
So I'd love to hear a littlebit about your thoughts, ways
that maybe your team weaves insome elements of AI, but also
has that really human-centeredstrategy Right?
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Well, I mean, just remember, like buying is 95%
emotion, right, it's.
Everybody still makes decisionsthrough emotion, and so I do
feel like there's a place for it.
Again, everything is driven bypeople.
You have to know the rightqueries, you have to know the
right prompts, you have to beable to, you know, make sure
(16:50):
that you're getting what youwant out of it.
I feel like it's useful increating outlines for different
pieces of content that you'redoing and that sort of thing
Definitely help guide maybethemes that you want to
elaborate on, and that sort ofthing.
But I would never, anytime itspits anything out, the human
(17:14):
has to be involved to edit it,to shape it.
It has to be your own voice, ithas to feel like it's coming
from you and not from a computer, and so I would say, you know,
we use it from a contentperspective, less so on the
design, because I definitelyfeel like, or voiceover,
anything like that from a talentperspective or design
(17:37):
perspective, because I thinkthat it's deceiving, I don't
feel like it's authentic, and sothere's a place for it, and
that would, I would say that'skind of where we're using it
more is just shortcuts aroundoutlines and, you know, thoughts
around content and that sort ofthing.
But we're not like going, we'renot asking at a query and to
(18:01):
spit out an article and go hereclient Because it's, yeah, it's,
it's good, but it's not thatgood yet.
It still has to be authentic andcome from a human.
Again, I mean, I think peopleare smarter than you think they
are in terms of being able totell.
(18:21):
If you know what's AI generatedand what's not, I think it can
be deceiving, but when you'recaught in the act, it's going to
bite you in the butt.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Yeah, absolutely Well .
And this takes me to a coupleof questions around when you are
first onboarding a client andthey might not know what they
don't know right.
Maybe they have some ideas ofwhat kinds of tactics, what
kinds of strategy they need toimplement, but they might not
fully engage.
So how do you start thatprocess and decide how you're
(18:54):
going to build out that team foreach client?
Speaker 3 (18:57):
So I mean, the number one question you ask is how
success is going to be measured.
You know like why are we doingthis plan in the first place?
You know what are theobjectives, what are you trying
to achieve and how do you wantto measure those results, and
then we basically create a planaround that.
You know every everyone isdifferent.
Every single one is different.
(19:18):
I mean, you've got business tobusiness clients who are in the
energy space we were talkingbefore.
You know, entertainmentmarketing is completely
different.
Healthcare B2C marketing iscompletely different than
healthcare B2B marketing.
And so you know, first of all,it comes back to what does
success metrics look like?
You know what's the timeline forthe campaign or the initiative
(19:41):
that you're trying to achieve,obviously asking about budget,
because the sky's the limit.
If you don't care, we can puttogether a plan for as much as
you want, but usually there aresome limitations there, and so
we need to understand sort ofthe ballpark of the investment
that they want to make.
So, looking at all of thosefactors, and then the first
(20:04):
thing that you want to do isalso understand if the current
positioning matches thepositioning based on you know,
the brand and based on theobjectives that they're trying
to achieve, because you want tolook at positioning and
messaging first and get that youknow the brand and based on the
objectives that they're tryingto achieve, because you want to
look at positioning andmessaging first and get that you
know honed in, and then youwant to develop a multimedia or,
(20:24):
you know, channel strategyaround those objectives as well.
And all of that really tells us, then, what we're going to need
in terms of media spin, thetype of media, the type of
vehicles, the format in which wewant to communicate the content
, and the humans that we need toperform all of this work, who
(20:45):
are specialists in each of thesedifferent categories.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Yeah, and to that point, you talked about
different industries.
So I would love to hear arethere specific industries that
you work with that are yoursweet spot, or are you industry
agnostic?
Speaker 3 (20:59):
We're pretty much industry agnostic, since so many
of our team members haveexperience in a lot of different
spaces, but I would say thatyou know we really do focus on
mid to enterprise levelbusinesses and we have probably
more experience in, like thehealthcare tech, financial
(21:20):
services.
Energy is a big one toosustainable energy and
professional services, as wellas entertainment, so those would
be our big ones.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah, so quite a few categories, but that's fantastic
because then you have the teammembers who can plug it based on
their specialties as well Notjust the skill set, but the
industry, perhaps as well.
Yes, exactly, when you startedyour agency, you said it was
really easy to get the rightpeople to say yes Sounds like
(21:52):
you were able to onboard clientspretty quickly because of your
vast experience and yourbusiness partners experience and
your relationships.
Did you have any hiccups whenyou're figuring out how to?
Because you had a constructwith how you wanted to bring
team members in.
So I'd love to hear you know.
Were there any challenges?
Speaker 3 (22:10):
There haven't really been any so far in terms of
bringing in the team, justbecause you know again, just the
network that I had was soextensive and that she has is so
extensive, and then obviouslythey know people and then it
just snowballed.
So I would say building theteam was one of the easier parts
(22:30):
of it.
Believe it or not, there's somuch wonderful talent out there.
The hardest part're going tolaugh is really thinking about
like when you're building abrand, it's like your baby and
it's like, okay, I have to birththis thing from scratch.
Who am I Like, what is my whyand what colors express that and
(22:55):
what you know positioningexpresses that and so that I'm
so used to serving clients andcause you know positioning
expresses that.
And so that I'm so used toserving clients and because you
know, helping them, I'm adiagnostician of their stuff,
their issues, their brand, myown.
I've always served other people,so to have to look inward was a
(23:15):
very enlightening andinteresting experience and I'm
very proud of the brand and Ithink it reflects I mean, it
reflects both of us, megan andmyself.
That's one of the reasons thatshe is now co-owner of the
business.
We are partners in Chromebecause philosophically we agree
on all of the same things.
(23:36):
We believe people should havemutual.
You know everyone should haveclients, and our team members
alike.
We work, we have mutual respectfor each other.
We're all self-disciplined todo the work.
We don't have to have somebody,you know, hitting us with a
whip, you know, to get our workdone.
We lead with empathy and heartand kindness, and so we're very
(23:58):
much aligned there.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yeah, but isn't that funny?
It's that thing of I can bedoing something for a client or
I can be talking about somethingwith my students, but then I
have to look at don't look atwhat I've done, because I'm
really bad at I don't have timefor social media I'm really bad
at doing.
(24:19):
I used to be really good at itwhen I had more time, but now,
yeah, there are things that wedon't do for ourselves as
marketers that are things thatwe preach to our clients and
have to take that look in and go.
Oh wait, what is my brand?
Speaker 3 (24:28):
And I want me to drink my own Kool-Aid.
I literally had to drink my ownKool-Aid.
I mean, I had to plan the photoshoot, I had to do the photo
shoot.
I drank my own Kool-Aid becauseI'm like okay, you got to
practice what you preach here,kid.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
And it sounds like a lot of other agencies, even
larger agencies, are starting toreally look at this model and
go this is the way of the future.
I live in California, so when Istarted my last PR firm, I got
really panicked because we havedifferent restrictions around
who's a contractor versus anemployee.
So I went, okay, I have to makeeverybody an employee.
And then I didn't think aboutbut if they're in five states,
(25:07):
what do I have to report on eachstate?
What do I have to report oneach state?
And honestly, I probably couldhave stayed with contractors
because the size of my businessand because of the different
levers I was pulling.
So is that something thatyou've come across at all?
Is that complexity of havingcontractors in different states
and having people really allover?
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Not at all.
I mean, it's just been seamless, not even an iota.
And I will say just in terms oflike, I don't know if this
model is for everyone.
It really depends on the goalof the professional services
industry, like in advertisingand marketing, does not have
(26:02):
huge margins and really theequity is the people and if the
people don't stay, it really itjust I've not seen I've only
seen it happen one time in mycareer that it was really done
successfully and it's it's.
That's a tough nut to crack, soit really depends on the owner
and what they intend to do withthe business.
With Megan and me, we alwaysknew that wasn't our intention
(26:26):
to sell or anything.
Our intention was to besuccessful in the moment like
and to be able to serve theclients while we have the
capacity and you know we can andyou know we can save the money
for retirement or whatever, butnot to sell it and to make a big
chunk of change if that makessense.
So our goal is just to reallydo the work and live in the now
(26:47):
and not worry about the futurewhen it comes to passing it on
or anything like that.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yeah, and that's a really refreshing perspective
because I think sometimes peopleforget about living in the
present and just taking care ofthe clients we have now, because
they're so future focused.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
So yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yeah, so I'd love to hear a little bit about what
your plans are moving forward.
Are you going to continueexpansion, finding new people
who are these high levelspecialists to come in and be
part of the team?
Oh sure, I mean, we're alwaystalking to potential contractors
who?
Speaker 3 (27:16):
could be a part of the team and we Are you like oh
sure, I mean we're alwaystalking to potential contractors
who could be a part of the teamand we're still in growth mode
right now.
I mean, we're a young business.
We just started, you know, Istarted the business in August
2023.
And so Megan officially joinedlike we've officially became
co-owners in January of thisyear, and then we did a launch
in February.
(27:36):
Right, you know, we did a hardlaunch in February.
We didn't do it in January,honestly, because of the
sensitivity around the fires inCalifornia.
We contributed to the effort.
That meant a lot to us becausewe have, you know, stakeholders
and friends who live out there,and so we wanted to show our
support for Cali, and also oneof our clients has a lot of
locations in that area as well.
(27:58):
So we kind of pushed our littlelaunch back to the spring.
So we're young, we're growingand, yes, our intention is to
continue to grow because we haveall of these wonderful people
we can put to work.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Fantastic.
I probably have several peoplethat I want to send your way
Okay great.
Who have left the agency world.
Want to send your way?
Okay, great who have left theagency world and are, you know,
awesome, yeah, so that'll be fun.
But for those people who arejust, you know, maybe mid career
there or they're just startingout, they're wanting to work at
(28:31):
an agency or they're wanting toget that experience so that they
can eventually become the kindof people you, what are some
recommendations that you wouldmake for them?
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Like I said I would, if you don't know what niche you
want to be in, like the youngermarketers, I mean I didn't know
, I was kind of I came upthrough, I would say, like the
account service route, which isreally more of the generalist
you know PCP and medical termsroute, to where you kind of know
a little bit about everythingso that you can see how all of
(29:03):
these different pieces fittogether and can develop a
strategy and plug in thosepeople and those tactics
accordingly.
But I would say I meandefinitely get exposure, like I
said, in a mid to large sizeagency, like an Accenture or a
bigger agency and even a smalleragency, for that matter.
(29:23):
I would just be wary to makesure that they don't put a
responsibility on you to dosomething that you're not ready
to do you know what I mean orthat you're not comfortable
doing.
But I do think that it's agreat place to learn, to get
that hands-on exposure and thento grow from, you know, and
it'll open the door to a lot ofdifferent opportunities, because
(29:44):
I feel like once you've workedin an agency you can work
in-house pretty easily becauseyou just have such a broader
perspective.
That's just been my journey,because I've done both, but
everybody's different.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
Amazing both, but everybody's different.
Amazing.
Well, what's the best way forpeople to learn more about the
agency?
To reach out, because there arealso people who have businesses
of all levels who may want touse your services.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
Sure, so we invite you to follow us on LinkedIn.
Like I said, we're trying tobuild our community and you can
find us on LinkedIn at KineticMarketing Communications LLC,
and our website isKineticComscom, so Kinetic, and
then C-O-M-M-Scom.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Fantastic and Katie, any last words that you want to
share with us about where yousee the industry heading or what
continues to inspire you tobuild out this model and keep
going.
What continues to?
Speaker 3 (30:39):
inspire you to build out this model and keep going.
I would just say just stay trueto yourself, remember, just
don't lose heart.
We're all humans and keephumanity as part of everything
you do.
I think we get too caught up inthe rat race and lose sight of
what's really important in life,and so I would say, you know,
(31:03):
just never lose sight withwhat's important in life.
You know I mean, I'm someonewho has lost a couple of dear
friends in two years, you know,or too young to lose them, and
it really puts things intoperspective.
So just keep it all.
Keep it all into perspectiveand if you feel like something's
toxic, it is, you know, andjust try to find a way to get
out of it and live your bestlife, because we're not here for
(31:24):
very long and I know that's notwhere the industry is going.
It's more of a bigger picturesentiment, but I do feel that's
just from my heart what Ibelieve.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Fantastic.
Well, thank you so much forcoming on talking about this
model, because I don't know thatwe've had this conversation on
this podcast before aboutbringing in really high-level
specialists.
How to form the new normal ofwhat we hope an agency can look
like in the future thateverybody has more agility.
So awesome, awesome, l'm glad,yeah, and thank you to everybody
(32:00):
who's watching this episode orlistening to it.
This is Mediascape Insightsfrom Digital Changemakers,
brought to you by USCAnnenberg's MS in Digital Media
Management Program.
I'm your co-host, annikaJackson, and we'll be back again
with another great guest nextweek.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
To learn more about the Master of Science in Digital
Media Management program, visitus on the web at dmmuscedu.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.