March 19, 2025 • 36 mins
What if the secret to digital success isn't just about who you know, but how authentically you connect with them? Greg Wasserman reveals his powerful philosophy—"Life is about time and relationships. You have no clue where one conversation is going to lead"—that has guided his journey from traditional media sales through Yahoo and CBS to becoming a respected voice in the podcasting industry.
This conversation delves deep into the often-misunderstood world of podcast monetization, challenging the notion that sponsorships are the only viable revenue path. Greg shares how treating your podcast as part of your business strategy rather than a standalone entity creates significantly more value. We explore the critical differences between affiliates, referrals, and brand ambassadors—distinctions that can transform your approach to partnership marketing.
The true gem of this episode emerges when we discuss vulnerability as the ultimate connection point in digital media. "Podcasting is all about vulnerability," Greg explains. "Lean into that piece... people will connect with you more." This authentic approach builds the crucial know-like-trust factor that drives business relationships in ways perfectly polished content never could.
For USC students and alumni, there's special insight into leveraging the powerful Trojan Network, which Greg credits as "truly the greatest network" he's encountered. His practical advice on making meaningful connections—whether through alumni groups, professional communities, or podcast audiences—provides actionable strategies for digital changemakers at any career stage.
Connect with Greg on LinkedIn to continue this conversation and discover how time and relationships might be the missing pieces in your digital success strategy.
This podcast is proudly sponsored by USC Annenberg’s Master of Science in Digital Media Management (MSDMM) program. An online master’s designed to prepare practitioners to understand the evolving media landscape, make data-driven and ethical decisions, and build a more equitable future by leading diverse teams with the technical, artistic, analytical, and production skills needed to create engaging content and technologies for the global marketplace. Learn more or apply today at https://dmm.usc.edu.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Mediascape insights from digital
changemakers, a speaker seriesand podcast brought to you by
USC Annenberg's Digital MediaManagement Program.
Join us as we unlock thesecrets to success in an
increasingly digital worldno-transcript.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Always a pleasure and fight on, of course, nothing
but love for my Trojans.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, well, I would love to hear how you went from
your business degree to gettinginto the world of podcasting,
digital helping companies thatwe now know of as large players
in the space for startups, whenyou started consulting with them
and working with them.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Yeah.
So, born and raised in Chicago,went to LA for college.
So there you go, fight onundergrad all the way.
I was a marketing major and soI fell in love with it.
So I guess everyone that'slistening to this like right,
like marketing media, I fell inlove 40 plus years ago, spent my
career on the sales side ofthings.
So media buy and selling youname it from Yahoo to CBS to
(01:32):
startups and in between andalong the way, somehow ended up
on the podcast side of things.
Because when you startedselling podcast ads I had no
clue that was going to take meto where I am today.
Ended up at a startup Day one.
He's like hey, we own threepodcast companies, go figure
this out.
And I had no clue what I wasdoing in that regard.
(01:54):
All I knew is there's abackground in terms of how to
sell media and what podcastadvertising did.
But from that it was more ofjust understanding the
technology players in the place.
And, as you know, listening topodcasts here it's like
podcasters care about threethings how do I grow my audience
, how do I get more distributionand how do I monetize.
And that's literally what myquote-unquote MBA in week one
(02:18):
was figuring out on the job waswhat people cared about.
And then from there, as I liketo say, it was kind of Jerry
Maguire-esque.
It's like all right, how do Ihelp you answer those three
questions, being the platformthat I am?
And from there I've kind ofjust fallen into podcasting
because you have such uniqueconversations and that's what I
love about the Mediascape.
It's like you have to bevulnerable, like what makes a
(02:42):
podcast, like anyone that'slistening to this is like
they're listening for you,because you are bringing a raw,
authentic conversation fromsomeone like me, who's a guest
that no one knows, and we justhave this moment together and
that becomes a great thing.
So I've kind of just loved thepodcast space and doing that.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Well, I obviously love it too for the same reasons
, and we met on LinkedIn throughthe podcast platform right or
through our love of podcasting.
Talk about that transition fromthe world of traditional media
yes, you know digital ad buyingas well but into podcasting.
Was it a stark difference whenyou started that transition?
(03:24):
Was it fairly similar?
Speaker 3 (03:26):
So to give you more context, and I was able to make
the transition from advertisinginto partnerships and from
partnerships into podcasting.
And the way that all worked outis I was hired for one job
using my advertising background,but the company never ended up
building the product they hiredme for.
And every advertiser I spokewith they're like I love this
(03:49):
product, but you don't haveenough scale.
So I could have gone to thefounders and said, hey, you
brought me in too soon, but Iloved what we were doing.
They loved what I was availableand capable of doing.
So I'm like great, let me buyus all time and let me go find
new advertisers or new users sothat I can grow my advertisers
need for having more users.
(04:10):
And that's where I feltpartnerships and that was like a
calling for me because I'm likegreat, the consumer, it's the
heart of everything.
Like that's what we should bedoing as a marketer.
That's what I should be doing,is my backgrounds and revenue.
It's like if we always put theconsumer first, that's how we
all end up winning, becausethat's why we're building
whatever we're doing in thefirst place.
So in this case, I'm like well,the consumer is getting value.
(04:32):
Company I'm partnering with isgetting value, and then the
company I'm with is gettingvalue.
I'm like this is incredible.
I loved it and you come torealize because I believe life
is about time and relationshipsyou have no clue where one
conversation is going to lead.
That really worked well withpartnerships because partner
people were always like, as theysay and no offense to anyone,
(04:53):
that's a redheaded stepchild,but like the redheaded stepchild
right, it's usually asalesperson who's like oh, go,
figure this out.
Like no one's really giventraining on partnerships.
All we know is like we love totalk to people.
We feel that there's a therethere and how do we uncover that
?
And that there's growth for acompany by doing that.
(05:13):
I found like people withpartnerships and then like we
fast forward to the next companythat's like, hey, go figure out
this podcasting.
And what's great aboutpartnership people and podcast
people is they both arecommunity focused.
You can agree to this case inpoint of our conversations alone
.
We're all there to help eachother.
We're all there to support,because you're winning is my
(05:36):
winning, and you go on someone'sshow, I go on another person's
show.
We promote a show.
It's all kind of in thatregards and that's very similar
to partnerships.
So that's what ultimately ledme to like ooh, I found my
partner side and I found peoplein podcasting.
How do I combine those two?
And that's ultimately been whatI've been able to do.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah, to your point.
I think people they know thatthey want partnerships, but they
don't really understand how toexecute them, what to ask for,
how to make it a win-win right,how to monetize it perhaps, and
so that's definitely a skill.
Like I have part, I think, ofevery person who comes on the
podcast as a partner becausewe're having a really great
(06:17):
conversation.
They're often people who willrecommend somebody to be on my
podcast who they think would befantastic.
They will, you know, we'll talkabout work and who we can
recommend to each other or if wewant to work together.
It's the start of arelationship 100.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
That's what I love about podcasting and that's
literally what I coach and tellpeople.
It's like, stop thinking aboutmonetization.
I guess I'm jaded in thebackground of like media right,
it's like there's so many otherways you can make money in
podcasting besides justadvertising and I love telling
others about that opportunities.
But if you look at themediascape and it's like most of
(06:54):
it is all tied to how do youmake money in advertising and
there's other ways that you canuse this medium and therefore
you also look at just anythingin general from a media
management, pr, earned, earned,paid and owned, like all those
different components that comeinto things.
It's like how do you leveragethat entire mix as opposed to
the only way it can make moneyis sponsorships?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yeah, yeah, using the Peso model, that's one of my
favorite things to do and it'sinteresting how many people
outside of the public relationsworld haven't heard it expressed
in that way.
We might talk about themarketing mix model.
Right, if you're an MBA studentor a business, you know an
undergrad business student,integrated marketing strategies,
but using that paid, earned,shared, owned model really helps
(07:38):
you see how you can continuethe amplification of that
interview, of that piece ofcontent across platforms.
Leverage it and then you know.
We were just talking before.
We jumped on too about the factthat people are seeing a lot of
value in affiliate programs.
That's another thing.
People don't always get right.
Same right with partnerships,with affiliate programs.
(08:01):
It's not just something I couldshare on my podcast, I'm going
to share it on my social media.
I'm going to share it on mysocial media, I'm going to put
it in my newsletter, on mywebsite, in a lot of other
places to extend the life ofthat brand's awareness as
associated with me.
And then, hopefully, because Ilike a brand, other people like
the brand and then I'm able topay for my podcast work right
(08:24):
100%.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Someone explained it to me so I can't take full
credit for this explanation.
But you've got affiliate,referral and ambassador and
everything just kind of getsgrouped together as an affiliate
right that's I'm making moneyand people who are like my job
is to make money and that's anaffiliate.
But, like Most of us, arereferrals of the products we use
(08:46):
.
And so if a company just goesahead and say, hey, here's a 10%
referral commission, if youjust tell people, you're most
likely going to tell more peoplebecause you've now got
something to show.
You're like oh, here's a link,here's something I can share
with you, as opposed to here'sjust something I'm telling you
about.
It also gives you somethingphysical to provide and easier
(09:08):
for a person to remember, and sothese are all little things
that, like brands, don't do agood job of or don't understand.
It's like spend a little moneyon getting an affiliate program
set up and referral program setup just because you want to get
some of those people to go shareit more, and they'll share more
because they now have somethingto share.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yeah, and you talked about affiliates, referrals and
ambassadors, so talk a littlebit more about the delineation
between the three.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
So your affiliates are going to be those that
literally they're making theirmoney.
Publications are probably agreat one, or they have a large
YouTube following or you're alarge podcast and it's like
great, I'm going to go ahead andpromote and that's how I'm
making.
My money is being a promoter ofwhatever this is, and I've
amassed an amazing audience andtherefore I'm monetizing that
(10:00):
audience that I've grown intomaking whatever affiliate
revenue.
I want the referrals.
Those are kind of like yourfriends and family.
I'm a user of your product.
Am I making $10 on just makingthe commission on this?
It's not going to make or breakmy bank account, right, but I'm
(10:20):
not going to say no to it.
But they love your product.
They're the people who are likeI'm just going to tell people
about this.
If I get the nice little at theend of the day, check, great,
but that's just the feel good.
I'm knowing that I use thisproduct.
I want to tell other peopleabout using this product as a
company.
I want to empower that personto do so.
(10:40):
The ambassadors, I mean they'rescreaming this.
They're saying what can I dofor you?
You want me on a webinar?
You want me to do something?
I will do things to helpbecause I love this company.
I want to see this companysucceed.
I also can't see them failbecause I'm invested in it from
a user of it, whatever thatintrinsic value may be.
But ultimately that is theperson.
(11:01):
You're like great, you're outthere, you're spreading the news
.
I can say, hey, I'm setting upan event in Chicago.
I don't know anyone in Chicago,you're in the news.
I can say, hey, I'm setting upan event in Chicago.
I don't know anyone in Chicago,you're in Chicago.
You love my product.
Can you help me on the ground?
Do something?
Good example.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah, yeah, that's a great example, thank you.
And one thing we were alsotalking about was affiliate
programs, again for podcasters,and you were saying that there
are some types of affiliatesthat are doing better than
others.
So for those listening, becausea lot of students in the DMM
program and other programs theyeither are brand ambassadors or
(11:38):
affiliates or monetized somehowon social media or they want to
know how they would wrap thatinto a marketing and strategic
plan for the business they'reproposing at the end of their
degree program in their capstone.
So Amazon versus Shopify storesversus other ways to work with
(11:59):
affiliates, influencers, etcetera.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
I mean, it's wild wild west in some regards, but
yeah, there is, so you can goahead.
I can sign up for Amazon andbecome just you, just a normal
person.
Go ahead and sign up, becomegreat.
I want to be an affiliate ofAmazon and anything that I want
to share.
I can go ahead and get my link,share it with someone.
And the nice thing about Amazonis people are always buying
(12:25):
stuff.
So whether I send it to you fora I don't know a piggy bank,
and the next thing you know, youadd toilet paper and other
things to your shopping cart andcheckout, I'm going to get a
commission on all those thingsin your cart, which is great.
Tiktok, I know, has come along.
I have not used it.
I'm not on TikTok so I can'ttalk specifically about it, but
(12:45):
I know the TikTok shop hasbecome a big thing that a lot of
creators and influencers arefinding a lot more value in and
monetizing and making a highercommission on that.
You and I were talking aboutanother platform for podcasters
and how to use that, but, like Itell this to people all the
time, like there's so many waysto make money without having to
spend your career like I did.
(13:07):
Calling up sponsors and going,hey, will you sponsor my company
?
Right, like that is somethingthat always boggles my mind.
It's like your zone ofinfluence and your zone of
genius is not what.
I got paid handsomely to go andcall brands and then make them
as a sponsor.
So why don't you focus on whatyour core business is?
And there's other ways that youcan, whether it's an affiliate
(13:30):
or you just start acting as ifright.
So some of the times it's likeI'm just going to get a free
sponsor.
Hey, let's do something intrade, just so I can have this
was sponsored by.
And then just by having onelogo on there, you're able to go
to others and say, hey, wouldyou like to be involved?
People don't take a biggeradvantage out of that.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yeah, yeah, that's such a good point and it's funny
the number of people who think,gosh, I can't monetize my
podcast whether they've starteda podcast, right, they're in the
world or they're lookingexternally and saying podcasts
must be really hard to monetize.
And then the people who arelike, oh, I've got this, I can
(14:11):
understand how to work with, youknow, in collaboration with
other organizations, or to getsponsors, or to use affiliate
links to say I'm sponsored by,or to bring in money.
What are some of the otherformats that you've seen work
effectively for podcasters to?
Speaker 3 (14:29):
monetize.
I mean, my biggest one that Icoach people on is when you
treat your podcast as a part ofyour business, as opposed to its
standalone item that you haveto make money off of, you become
successful.
So most people are like, oh, Istarted a podcast, it's not
making money for me, so I'mgoing to stop it.
(14:49):
But reality, they neverrealized what is the reason that
they're actually doing apodcast in the first place.
And to understand that, what isyour actual business right?
So, like, what is the businessreason you would start a podcast
?
If it is, I just want to beknown like and trust and build a
brand ambassadorship so thatmore people then hire me for
(15:09):
consulting.
Then great, Be strategic aboutthat.
And then, when you're nottrying to monetize it, your
monetization is ultimatelyleading to jobs speaking.
So, whatever the case may besponsorship standpoint as
(15:30):
opposed to like, what is thecore reason you're doing this
and what is the the long-termplay that you're ultimately
using this podcast for?
And then, if you think aboutpodcasts as opposed to if we go
back to the peso model, it'slike great, podcasting becomes
the greatest engine for mediabecause it's two of us talking
if you use it from aconversation standpoint and go
great, record this as video,repurpose it, Take the audio,
(15:52):
distribute it and then cut thisdown into anything that you
would want blog, newsletter,LinkedIn post, social promotion
and once you realize that aperson doesn't have to listen,
like I'd be honored if youraudience listened to us for 40
minutes or whatever we go forright, if your audience listened
to us for 40 minutes orwhatever we go for right.
But it's even amazing ifsomeone just goes ahead and
takes a look at your LinkedInpost and go like, hey, here's a
(16:15):
great episode that I justrecorded with Greg.
I'm like great, I just gotrecognition, People engaged.
All that is no like and trustin building and that then leads
to wherever it is you want to go.
So there's so many differentways you can monetize.
You can go down the communityroute.
You know, not my favorite.
I love community.
That's a different side of whatI focus on.
(16:35):
But, like the paid communitycomponent, that's a hard one to
do.
But you can also make money offof that no different than
trying to get a sponsor.
Now you're staying in your zoneof genius of like my community
is focused on what I'm here todo, what I'm here to teach, as
opposed to me spending the timetrying to go get a sponsor.
I'm now still focused on thepeople that are engaged with me.
(16:58):
I'm having those one-on-oneconversations Like that is more
use of your time than trying togo to sponsor.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
I love you sharing your perspective, because you
have this background in othermedia before moving to
podcasting.
So, thank you, Greg.
Your company is Time andRelationships, which I would
argue are two of the mostimportant things that we have.
So was that the name?
I mean, was that you know thewhy?
You just said oh, these are twothings I'm really invested in
(17:26):
that have really helped shape mycareer, so this is a given that
this is what I'm naming mybrand.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
It came from.
I guess, if we look at it,pulling threads Right.
And so the thread was I'vealways believed, especially
being in revenue, that I reachout to someone and I'm being
paid by a company to sellwhatever my widget is in that
regards.
But in reality, I'm sellingmyself to create a connection
(17:53):
because no matter where I was inmy career younger or now older,
we're most likely at least mygeneration, our generation.
We're not staying in our careerfor 40 years getting the watch
and having a nice retirementlike our parents.
Potentially right, that's justnot a thing.
So to understand that, justfrom a simple standpoint of
(18:16):
wherever you are, wherever I am,we're probably not going to end
up here for the next 40 years.
So let's connect and whetherwhat I'm selling makes sense or
not, let's at least open thatrelationship, because I
guarantee you and this is myphilosophy is I'm talking to
other me's who have otherproducts to sell.
(18:37):
So if I don't have the rightsolution for you, I have to
establish myself as going likegreat, how do I save your inbox
from all these cold calls thatyou're getting going like look,
you should talk to Anika.
She's got something you'd wantbased on what you've just told
me, and so that's how I lived mycareer.
And from that understanding ofall about relationships, you
(18:59):
close deals because people knowthey can trust you.
But it's also a matter of whatI'm selling today may not be
there in the future.
But it's all about the timingand I'm a true, the universe
puts us together when you'remeant to be.
So if you say, hey, craig, thetiming's not right, I feel
terrible.
My quotas aren't getting hit.
But at the end of the day, I'mlike you're right.
(19:21):
It probably wasn't the righttiming.
Let's nurture this relationshipinstead of just trying to force
you into it.
Now, of course, in sales andrevenues, you've got to do a
little bit of both, but that'sliterally where the mindset came
.
I didn't come into.
The life is about time andrelationships.
You have no clue where oneconversation is going to lead,
so let's have it.
Until what?
(19:41):
Is it probably COVID, so a fewyears ago, where it all actually
started clicking, going likehold on?
I truly believe this.
Now I've just got to keepsaying it, as opposed to I'm not
sharing it.
Now I'm sharing it.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yeah, I have one observation and then a question.
I have one observation and thena question.
As you were saying that, I wasthinking about my other podcast
and the fact that most of thepeople that I interview on it
booked January or February of2024.
So they have waited an entireyear for this interview.
(20:15):
But, as you mentioned, Ibelieve that this is the right
time.
My podcast has grown a lot.
It's on the Apple charts in 10countries, some more, but I
think that for their businesses,the fact that they were willing
(20:43):
to wait, that they saw thevalue in building this
relationship, that we're able tocorrespond, and some people we
didn't build a relationshipuntil they actually came on for
the interview.
Other people, you know we did,but that's been really
fascinating case study formyself.
But it does show about thepower of time and relationships,
and one thing that we impart onour students at USC is that the
(21:07):
relationships they build withtheir classmates, whether
physically or whether online, isone of the most important
things that they'll get out ofthis experience, and I know that
you've also found that.
So I'd love for you to talk alittle bit about the USC
perspective.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
I mean I'll geek out on that one.
Like right, usc sells on on theTrojan Network and it is truly
the greatest network.
Like living out in LA for 20plus years, having friends from
Chicago to Big Ten schools likeno one else ever talks about.
Oh yeah, I can go and look atsomeone's LinkedIn and say, oh,
they went to Michigan and go,hey, I went to Michigan too.
(21:43):
They're like cool, right, like.
That's usually the response,whereas like hey, I went to USC,
where else is someone going togo?
Like fight on, let's talk.
Right, like that is it?
I mean, I don't even know.
Wolverine, is it?
I don't even know.
Yeah, whatever their slogan is,go blue, there you go, but it's
just not there.
So it's truly been nothing.
(22:03):
Everything has been arelationship from that regards.
But if you just want to pullthat thread and go, okay, I'm
going to go reach out to allTrojans and say, hey, I'm a
fellow Trojan, I would love totalk to you.
Most likely they will take thetime and connect with you,
because we want that Trojanlegacy, we want to continue to
push that.
Usc does an amazing job inselling that alumni network.
(22:25):
Since I was an undergrad, it'sbecome even better and so it's
been exciting to see how USC hascontinued to evolve to help
current students, existingalumni and everyone in between
current students, existingalumni and everyone in between,
and is that one of thetechniques that you've used when
(22:47):
you're doing cold outreach onLinkedIn or to a company?
When you're reaching out you'vegot so many different techniques
and saying like, oh, I see youwent to this school and
everyone's like all right, phony, whatever it is.
But the nice thing is you cansay I went to USC.
Good example Last week yeah, itwas last week literally saw
someone went to USC.
(23:07):
He's an MBA grad and I'm like,hey, undergrad SC.
My subject line was go Trojans.
Week later he wrote back and hesaid fight on right.
So like that's just a greatlittle story there alone.
On the connection piece, Idon't use it for anything else
besides.
Oh, you went to USC, right,because you went to Michigan.
(23:27):
I'm not going to say that right, it just doesn't work as well.
But for USC people, 100%,because there's a pride in
having that word.
And if someone's like did Ihave a good time at school,
great, Then you'll find out thatthat person didn't enjoy.
But I'm yet to really have thatexperience, so I'll keep going
(23:48):
with it.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yeah, yeah, hint, hint for all of the students who
are listening to this episode.
So we've talked a lot about thepower of community, of time and
relationships, whether it's theUSC community, the podcasting
community, which also is, handsdown, one of the most welcoming
amazing communities.
Collaboration over competition,you know, is a great phrase to
(24:12):
use.
That really applies here whenyou think about the revenue
mindset, because I know you'vetalked through.
People sometimes think thepodcast is what you're supposed
to monetize and, yes, that'sgreat, but you can use it for so
many other things in yourbusiness to monetize.
What are some of the thingspeople need to do to draw those
(24:33):
connections to get the revenuegrowth in terms of how do they?
You know, because some peoplecome on podcasts and they're all
business and they're not reallygiving you the things that you
can pull from the personalnarratives, the stories, the ups
and downs, the things thatpersonalize them and humanize
them to a listener and make themgo.
Ooh, that story really capturedme.
(24:55):
I aspire to be like that personor I want to try their brand
now, right, which all leads torevenue growth.
So what are some things thatpeople need to think about when
they're going into an interviewsituation, whether it's a
podcast, you know, tv, radio,online publication, whatever it
might be, to build that humanelement when it might be
(25:17):
uncomfortable to do so, when itmight be uncomfortable to do so.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
The greatest thing I always learned and if I haven't
mentioned this, I apologize, butlike, podcasting is all about
vulnerability, right.
So lean into that.
And, if nothing else, covid hastaught us, especially as we
work from home, right, like, dogwalks in whatever, like that's
the human nature, that's a humancondition that we are currently
(25:41):
living in.
And the polished I mean look, Idid put on a button down shirt
for this conversation, otherwise, yeah, I'd be in my hoodie
right now but the biggest thingwould be be vulnerable, be
understanding of that componentthat if you are preparing for
something, lean into that piece,have that conversation,
(26:01):
understand that you can andshould be vulnerable, because
people will connect with youmore.
And so, if we think about brandbuilding as a whole, people
want to work with people.
They know, like and trust.
So how do you know, like andtrust me if, like, you sense a
BS meter or you don't feel I'mauthentic or I'm just trying to
(26:22):
sell you?
Which, truth be told, anyonelistening like I say all the
time, life is about time andrelationships Everyone's like,
oh, you're just so sales.
I'm like, no, like, that istruly what I believe.
Right, like.
It does sound like a salesslogan, which is why I used it
so often, because it's justmemorable, it's easy, it's Greg.
Is time in relationshipsPerfect?
(26:43):
But like, that is who I am.
That's truly what I believe.
That's what you and I'veconnected over.
People want you to be authentic.
I was just listening to anotherpodcast and part of the whole
thing is is people are so let'stalk about the weather, let's
talk about the news, let's talkabout these other things, but
like, we want personalconnections, which is what I
love about podcasting.
(27:04):
What I love about thatinterview format is like let's
get nitty gritty, let's havethese deke out moments, let's
talk about the real things.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
That also, then, is going to build a better.
If we go to the PESA, yourecommend that they maybe
practice a couple of examplesthat they can use over and over
again on different podcasts.
If they're, for instance, justgoing on business podcasts, they
have that one vulnerable momentwhen the sale didn't go right
or they had something that was afailure.
That was really a lesson.
(27:47):
What are some of the constructswe can use for that
storytelling, to pull them outand get them, you know, used to
being a little bit out of theircomfort zone, so that they can
show up authentically to otherpeople or vulnerably to other
people?
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Look, you can go down the what is it?
The SWAT, right?
Situation.
I'm blanking now Switch rateaction tactic, right.
But yeah, have a couple storiesin mind, but I have no clue what
questions you're going to beasking me.
Right, like, so some shows arethey're going to give you?
Like hey, what questions you'reasking?
What are we talking about?
(28:24):
I usually wing it, good or bad.
I have no clue where this isgoing to take me, but that's
also my belief.
Like I have no clue where oneconversation is going to go and
like we just pull a thread andwe go with it.
So be open to that.
But yeah, practice, have acouple stories that you want to
talk about.
Preparation's key in thatregards is you and I were
talking like hold on, who's theaudience that's listening to
(28:45):
this show?
Like, what stories would makesense?
Clearly, everyone.
I'm going to talk about USCmultiple times, because how can
I not as a fellow Trojan, butalso working in media for the
last 20 years like great,there's many things that we can
talk about in that regard.
So if you're bringing someoneon or you are a guest going into
someone else's show, know whotheir audience is.
But I guess this also goes toask the questions.
(29:08):
Hey, before I come on your show, I know I should have done my
research, whatever the case maybe, but, like you know better
than I do who's the core person?
Is there anything that you wantme to cover?
Like, you can have these, pullthese threads and ask these
questions, and that's okay to doso.
The person that's coming onyour show that signed up and you
had them fill out a form a yearago right, let's be honest, I
(29:32):
filled out this form.
I don't know how long ago, but Idon't remember what I filled
out in the form, so I canimagine someone who filled this
out a year ago, right, I can'tremember what I did last week,
yet alone, I'm sick.
Now I can't remember what I didearlier today, right?
So it's just having thosevulnerable moments of realizing
we're human.
I had a call today and I'm likeyou're not getting the best
version of myself.
(29:53):
I'm sick, my brain's foggy.
Why are we talking?
And then, once we start talking, I'm like, oh, okay, now it's
all coming back.
But like those are the easiestways to have vulnerability, no,
does it make the greatestsoundbite?
Like someone that's listeningto this right now, going like
(30:14):
Greg, probably just shut up,great.
But in reality, that is thehuman connection.
That is me, that is the raw andthat's what people want to hear
yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
And the important thing is, you did show up, right
.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
That is the biggest thing.
I think consistency is key,right, even doing this, you've
been able to get to where youare from a podcast standpoint
because consistently,consistently, every day, you're
putting out content.
So anyone that's in yourprogram knows like you got to
keep showing up.
Sure, maybe there's a studentwho never shows up and they get
an, a jealous of that person,but you can't do that always in
(30:44):
life, right?
So consistently is key.
Consistently show up,consistently, reach out to
people.
So if we go back to time andrelationships me I'm the kind of
person who does those textmessages.
Like literally 10 o'clock lastnight my friends popped in my
head I know they're asleepbecause of the time difference
I'm like just thinking of you,right, like those are simple
(31:04):
things that we can all just doto create those relationships.
So if you are going on someoneelse's show, how do I help you?
Like me coming on your show, isyou helping me?
What could I do to help you?
And some of the time, yourguests won't do that.
So as a host, you've got to doa better job to empower that
person to do that.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Yeah, yeah, that's a really great point.
What does your day-to-day looklike?
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Right now I'm on a project, so it's a little
different, but normally I liketo fill my calendar with calls.
Time blocking, I've learned, isa key piece.
But, once again, if I believethat you have no clue where one
conversation can go, calendar'sopen, let's have a conversation.
I'll figure something out,whether it's a connection,
whether it's a business, whetherit's something of value that
(31:51):
both of us are able to walk awaywith.
So more conversations I canhave.
Great.
As you can tell, I'm anextrovert, so I also want to
talk to people.
So last week, not being on thephone and just researching and
researching and researching, Iwas drained, which is also
probably why I got sick, becauseI'm like I need to talk.
(32:13):
Talking fuels me, right?
So if that's something you like, you're going to work in
revenue, you're going to work insales, right?
But for me, day to day, let'shave conversations, let's
connect, let's think about who Iconnect with other people so
that good ideas can cometogether.
Anyone that's listening, right.
You always want to have someonelike yourself where it's like
(32:36):
I'm a connector.
You have a business idea?
Well, I know other people thatI can help you with that
business idea and I think that'sthe biggest thing I could say
If you walk away with anything,ask for help, probably the
biggest thing.
Most people won't ask for helpand that goes back to
vulnerability, but it's actuallya huge lift if we can all just
ask for help because now you areactually empowering another
(32:58):
person to go.
Wow, they think highly of methat they're actually asking me
to do something or help themwith something.
That's a confidence boost forthat person.
But also you know it when youhelp someone, how that feels.
So so I would definitely sayall that I know.
I went on a tangent onanswering your question of like
what's my day-to-day?
Day-to-day is let's haveconversations and figure out
(33:21):
where I can create partnerships,where I can create connections,
where we can create revenue orjust good opportunities, because
good people can meet goodpeople and it doesn't have to be
a revenue tied to it, but youjust know these people should
connect.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
That's how we started.
I think he just reached out.
We had a connection call.
I said, okay, jump on thepodcast and we'll figure out the
rest later.
We'll figure out who we canintroduce each other to.
But that's such an importantpart of the networking aspect
too is you don't have to knowwhere it's going to lead, as
you've said many times earlier.
(33:55):
You just have to make thatconnection.
You have to ask for a meeting,maybe have a couple of things
teed up that you want to askabout and then see where else it
goes.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
I'll actually pull that thread.
We actually our connection camebecause we were both speaking
at an event and I reached out onLinkedIn to people that were
speaking at an event and ourpaths didn't cross at the event
because, as we all know, whatconferences good luck running to
everyone that you would want torun into, good problem to have.
(34:25):
But also then I think youposted something on LinkedIn and
I saw it.
I'm like, oh my God, we stillhaven't connected here.
And that's where, months later,we're like, all right, we've
got to make this happen.
Goes back to created theconnection early on, but the
timing wasn't right until nowand look at where we've been
able to take that conversationconnection since then.
(34:46):
So if we go back full circle tothose people that signed up a
year ago, the timing is now formany reasons.
Some may get it, some may not.
But yeah, I'd be consistentlyshowing up, yeah, consistently
ask for help and continue to dothe work, because someone's got
to do it right.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah, absolutely Well , you just gave a really great
end cap to this conversation andI think all that's left to say
is that, for everybody listening, greg is ready to start a
relationship with you, so I'mgoing to include his LinkedIn in
the show notes and know thatyou have a warm welcoming,
trojan alum, who's willing tospeak to you about probably not
(35:30):
just podcasting and revenue, butany number of things that you
want to ask as you're going intoyour world of work and business
and life.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Yeah, I love being a plethora of industries, so let's
talk.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Awesome, and with that, thank you to everybody
who's listening to this episodeof Mediascape Insights from
Digital Changemakers.
I'm one of your hosts, annikaJackson, and I'll be back again
with another great guest nextweek.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
To learn more about the Master of Science in Digital
Media Management program, visitus on the web at dmmuscedu.
Welcome to Mediascape insights from digital
changemakers, a speaker seriesand podcast brought to you by
USC Annenberg's Digital MediaManagement Program.
Join us as we unlock thesecrets to success in an
increasingly digital worldno-transcript.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Always a pleasure and fight on, of course, nothing
but love for my Trojans.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, well, I would love to hear how you went from
your business degree to gettinginto the world of podcasting,
digital helping companies thatwe now know of as large players
in the space for startups, whenyou started consulting with them
and working with them.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Yeah.
So, born and raised in Chicago,went to LA for college.
So there you go, fight onundergrad all the way.
I was a marketing major and soI fell in love with it.
So I guess everyone that'slistening to this like right,
like marketing media, I fell inlove 40 plus years ago, spent my
career on the sales side ofthings.
So media buy and selling youname it from Yahoo to CBS to
(01:32):
startups and in between andalong the way, somehow ended up
on the podcast side of things.
Because when you startedselling podcast ads I had no
clue that was going to take meto where I am today.
Ended up at a startup Day one.
He's like hey, we own threepodcast companies, go figure
this out.
And I had no clue what I wasdoing in that regard.
(01:54):
All I knew is there's abackground in terms of how to
sell media and what podcastadvertising did.
But from that it was more ofjust understanding the
technology players in the place.
And, as you know, listening topodcasts here it's like
podcasters care about threethings how do I grow my audience
, how do I get more distributionand how do I monetize.
And that's literally what myquote-unquote MBA in week one
(02:18):
was figuring out on the job waswhat people cared about.
And then from there, as I liketo say, it was kind of Jerry
Maguire-esque.
It's like all right, how do Ihelp you answer those three
questions, being the platformthat I am?
And from there I've kind ofjust fallen into podcasting
because you have such uniqueconversations and that's what I
love about the Mediascape.
It's like you have to bevulnerable, like what makes a
(02:42):
podcast, like anyone that'slistening to this is like
they're listening for you,because you are bringing a raw,
authentic conversation fromsomeone like me, who's a guest
that no one knows, and we justhave this moment together and
that becomes a great thing.
So I've kind of just loved thepodcast space and doing that.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Well, I obviously love it too for the same reasons
, and we met on LinkedIn throughthe podcast platform right or
through our love of podcasting.
Talk about that transition fromthe world of traditional media
yes, you know digital ad buyingas well but into podcasting.
Was it a stark difference whenyou started that transition?
(03:24):
Was it fairly similar?
Speaker 3 (03:26):
So to give you more context, and I was able to make
the transition from advertisinginto partnerships and from
partnerships into podcasting.
And the way that all worked outis I was hired for one job
using my advertising background,but the company never ended up
building the product they hiredme for.
And every advertiser I spokewith they're like I love this
(03:49):
product, but you don't haveenough scale.
So I could have gone to thefounders and said, hey, you
brought me in too soon, but Iloved what we were doing.
They loved what I was availableand capable of doing.
So I'm like great, let me buyus all time and let me go find
new advertisers or new users sothat I can grow my advertisers
need for having more users.
(04:10):
And that's where I feltpartnerships and that was like a
calling for me because I'm likegreat, the consumer, it's the
heart of everything.
Like that's what we should bedoing as a marketer.
That's what I should be doing,is my backgrounds and revenue.
It's like if we always put theconsumer first, that's how we
all end up winning, becausethat's why we're building
whatever we're doing in thefirst place.
So in this case, I'm like well,the consumer is getting value.
(04:32):
Company I'm partnering with isgetting value, and then the
company I'm with is gettingvalue.
I'm like this is incredible.
I loved it and you come torealize because I believe life
is about time and relationshipsyou have no clue where one
conversation is going to lead.
That really worked well withpartnerships because partner
people were always like, as theysay and no offense to anyone,
(04:53):
that's a redheaded stepchild,but like the redheaded stepchild
right, it's usually asalesperson who's like oh, go,
figure this out.
Like no one's really giventraining on partnerships.
All we know is like we love totalk to people.
We feel that there's a therethere and how do we uncover that
?
And that there's growth for acompany by doing that.
(05:13):
I found like people withpartnerships and then like we
fast forward to the next companythat's like, hey, go figure out
this podcasting.
And what's great aboutpartnership people and podcast
people is they both arecommunity focused.
You can agree to this case inpoint of our conversations alone
.
We're all there to help eachother.
We're all there to support,because you're winning is my
(05:36):
winning, and you go on someone'sshow, I go on another person's
show.
We promote a show.
It's all kind of in thatregards and that's very similar
to partnerships.
So that's what ultimately ledme to like ooh, I found my
partner side and I found peoplein podcasting.
How do I combine those two?
And that's ultimately been whatI've been able to do.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah, to your point.
I think people they know thatthey want partnerships, but they
don't really understand how toexecute them, what to ask for,
how to make it a win-win right,how to monetize it perhaps, and
so that's definitely a skill.
Like I have part, I think, ofevery person who comes on the
podcast as a partner becausewe're having a really great
(06:17):
conversation.
They're often people who willrecommend somebody to be on my
podcast who they think would befantastic.
They will, you know, we'll talkabout work and who we can
recommend to each other or if wewant to work together.
It's the start of arelationship 100.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
That's what I love about podcasting and that's
literally what I coach and tellpeople.
It's like, stop thinking aboutmonetization.
I guess I'm jaded in thebackground of like media right,
it's like there's so many otherways you can make money in
podcasting besides justadvertising and I love telling
others about that opportunities.
But if you look at themediascape and it's like most of
(06:54):
it is all tied to how do youmake money in advertising and
there's other ways that you canuse this medium and therefore
you also look at just anythingin general from a media
management, pr, earned, earned,paid and owned, like all those
different components that comeinto things.
It's like how do you leveragethat entire mix as opposed to
the only way it can make moneyis sponsorships?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yeah, yeah, using the Peso model, that's one of my
favorite things to do and it'sinteresting how many people
outside of the public relationsworld haven't heard it expressed
in that way.
We might talk about themarketing mix model.
Right, if you're an MBA studentor a business, you know an
undergrad business student,integrated marketing strategies,
but using that paid, earned,shared, owned model really helps
(07:38):
you see how you can continuethe amplification of that
interview, of that piece ofcontent across platforms.
Leverage it and then you know.
We were just talking before.
We jumped on too about the factthat people are seeing a lot of
value in affiliate programs.
That's another thing.
People don't always get right.
Same right with partnerships,with affiliate programs.
(08:01):
It's not just something I couldshare on my podcast, I'm going
to share it on my social media.
I'm going to share it on mysocial media, I'm going to put
it in my newsletter, on mywebsite, in a lot of other
places to extend the life ofthat brand's awareness as
associated with me.
And then, hopefully, because Ilike a brand, other people like
the brand and then I'm able topay for my podcast work right
(08:24):
100%.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
Someone explained it to me so I can't take full
credit for this explanation.
But you've got affiliate,referral and ambassador and
everything just kind of getsgrouped together as an affiliate
right that's I'm making moneyand people who are like my job
is to make money and that's anaffiliate.
But, like Most of us, arereferrals of the products we use
(08:46):
.
And so if a company just goesahead and say, hey, here's a 10%
referral commission, if youjust tell people, you're most
likely going to tell more peoplebecause you've now got
something to show.
You're like oh, here's a link,here's something I can share
with you, as opposed to here'sjust something I'm telling you
about.
It also gives you somethingphysical to provide and easier
(09:08):
for a person to remember, and sothese are all little things
that, like brands, don't do agood job of or don't understand.
It's like spend a little moneyon getting an affiliate program
set up and referral program setup just because you want to get
some of those people to go shareit more, and they'll share more
because they now have somethingto share.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yeah, and you talked about affiliates, referrals and
ambassadors, so talk a littlebit more about the delineation
between the three.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
So your affiliates are going to be those that
literally they're making theirmoney.
Publications are probably agreat one, or they have a large
YouTube following or you're alarge podcast and it's like
great, I'm going to go ahead andpromote and that's how I'm
making.
My money is being a promoter ofwhatever this is, and I've
amassed an amazing audience andtherefore I'm monetizing that
(10:00):
audience that I've grown intomaking whatever affiliate
revenue.
I want the referrals.
Those are kind of like yourfriends and family.
I'm a user of your product.
Am I making $10 on just makingthe commission on this?
It's not going to make or breakmy bank account, right, but I'm
(10:20):
not going to say no to it.
But they love your product.
They're the people who are likeI'm just going to tell people
about this.
If I get the nice little at theend of the day, check, great,
but that's just the feel good.
I'm knowing that I use thisproduct.
I want to tell other peopleabout using this product as a
company.
I want to empower that personto do so.
(10:40):
The ambassadors, I mean they'rescreaming this.
They're saying what can I dofor you?
You want me on a webinar?
You want me to do something?
I will do things to helpbecause I love this company.
I want to see this companysucceed.
I also can't see them failbecause I'm invested in it from
a user of it, whatever thatintrinsic value may be.
But ultimately that is theperson.
(11:01):
You're like great, you're outthere, you're spreading the news
.
I can say, hey, I'm setting upan event in Chicago.
I don't know anyone in Chicago,you're in the news.
I can say, hey, I'm setting upan event in Chicago.
I don't know anyone in Chicago,you're in Chicago.
You love my product.
Can you help me on the ground?
Do something?
Good example.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah, yeah, that's a great example, thank you.
And one thing we were alsotalking about was affiliate
programs, again for podcasters,and you were saying that there
are some types of affiliatesthat are doing better than
others.
So for those listening, becausea lot of students in the DMM
program and other programs theyeither are brand ambassadors or
(11:38):
affiliates or monetized somehowon social media or they want to
know how they would wrap thatinto a marketing and strategic
plan for the business they'reproposing at the end of their
degree program in their capstone.
So Amazon versus Shopify storesversus other ways to work with
(11:59):
affiliates, influencers, etcetera.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
I mean, it's wild wild west in some regards, but
yeah, there is, so you can goahead.
I can sign up for Amazon andbecome just you, just a normal
person.
Go ahead and sign up, becomegreat.
I want to be an affiliate ofAmazon and anything that I want
to share.
I can go ahead and get my link,share it with someone.
And the nice thing about Amazonis people are always buying
(12:25):
stuff.
So whether I send it to you fora I don't know a piggy bank,
and the next thing you know, youadd toilet paper and other
things to your shopping cart andcheckout, I'm going to get a
commission on all those thingsin your cart, which is great.
Tiktok, I know, has come along.
I have not used it.
I'm not on TikTok so I can'ttalk specifically about it, but
(12:45):
I know the TikTok shop hasbecome a big thing that a lot of
creators and influencers arefinding a lot more value in and
monetizing and making a highercommission on that.
You and I were talking aboutanother platform for podcasters
and how to use that, but, like Itell this to people all the
time, like there's so many waysto make money without having to
spend your career like I did.
(13:07):
Calling up sponsors and going,hey, will you sponsor my company
?
Right, like that is somethingthat always boggles my mind.
It's like your zone ofinfluence and your zone of
genius is not what.
I got paid handsomely to go andcall brands and then make them
as a sponsor.
So why don't you focus on whatyour core business is?
And there's other ways that youcan, whether it's an affiliate
(13:30):
or you just start acting as ifright.
So some of the times it's likeI'm just going to get a free
sponsor.
Hey, let's do something intrade, just so I can have this
was sponsored by.
And then just by having onelogo on there, you're able to go
to others and say, hey, wouldyou like to be involved?
People don't take a biggeradvantage out of that.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yeah, yeah, that's such a good point and it's funny
the number of people who think,gosh, I can't monetize my
podcast whether they've starteda podcast, right, they're in the
world or they're lookingexternally and saying podcasts
must be really hard to monetize.
And then the people who arelike, oh, I've got this, I can
(14:11):
understand how to work with, youknow, in collaboration with
other organizations, or to getsponsors, or to use affiliate
links to say I'm sponsored by,or to bring in money.
What are some of the otherformats that you've seen work
effectively for podcasters to?
Speaker 3 (14:29):
monetize.
I mean, my biggest one that Icoach people on is when you
treat your podcast as a part ofyour business, as opposed to its
standalone item that you haveto make money off of, you become
successful.
So most people are like, oh, Istarted a podcast, it's not
making money for me, so I'mgoing to stop it.
(14:49):
But reality, they neverrealized what is the reason that
they're actually doing apodcast in the first place.
And to understand that, what isyour actual business right?
So, like, what is the businessreason you would start a podcast
?
If it is, I just want to beknown like and trust and build a
brand ambassadorship so thatmore people then hire me for
(15:09):
consulting.
Then great, Be strategic aboutthat.
And then, when you're nottrying to monetize it, your
monetization is ultimatelyleading to jobs speaking.
So, whatever the case may besponsorship standpoint as
(15:30):
opposed to like, what is thecore reason you're doing this
and what is the the long-termplay that you're ultimately
using this podcast for?
And then, if you think aboutpodcasts as opposed to if we go
back to the peso model, it'slike great, podcasting becomes
the greatest engine for mediabecause it's two of us talking
if you use it from aconversation standpoint and go
great, record this as video,repurpose it, Take the audio,
(15:52):
distribute it and then cut thisdown into anything that you
would want blog, newsletter,LinkedIn post, social promotion
and once you realize that aperson doesn't have to listen,
like I'd be honored if youraudience listened to us for 40
minutes or whatever we go forright, if your audience listened
to us for 40 minutes orwhatever we go for right.
But it's even amazing ifsomeone just goes ahead and
takes a look at your LinkedInpost and go like, hey, here's a
(16:15):
great episode that I justrecorded with Greg.
I'm like great, I just gotrecognition, People engaged.
All that is no like and trustin building and that then leads
to wherever it is you want to go.
So there's so many differentways you can monetize.
You can go down the communityroute.
You know, not my favorite.
I love community.
That's a different side of whatI focus on.
(16:35):
But, like the paid communitycomponent, that's a hard one to
do.
But you can also make money offof that no different than
trying to get a sponsor.
Now you're staying in your zoneof genius of like my community
is focused on what I'm here todo, what I'm here to teach, as
opposed to me spending the timetrying to go get a sponsor.
I'm now still focused on thepeople that are engaged with me.
(16:58):
I'm having those one-on-oneconversations Like that is more
use of your time than trying togo to sponsor.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
I love you sharing your perspective, because you
have this background in othermedia before moving to
podcasting.
So, thank you, Greg.
Your company is Time andRelationships, which I would
argue are two of the mostimportant things that we have.
So was that the name?
I mean, was that you know thewhy?
You just said oh, these are twothings I'm really invested in
(17:26):
that have really helped shape mycareer, so this is a given that
this is what I'm naming mybrand.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
It came from.
I guess, if we look at it,pulling threads Right.
And so the thread was I'vealways believed, especially
being in revenue, that I reachout to someone and I'm being
paid by a company to sellwhatever my widget is in that
regards.
But in reality, I'm sellingmyself to create a connection
(17:53):
because no matter where I was inmy career younger or now older,
we're most likely at least mygeneration, our generation.
We're not staying in our careerfor 40 years getting the watch
and having a nice retirementlike our parents.
Potentially right, that's justnot a thing.
So to understand that, justfrom a simple standpoint of
(18:16):
wherever you are, wherever I am,we're probably not going to end
up here for the next 40 years.
So let's connect and whetherwhat I'm selling makes sense or
not, let's at least open thatrelationship, because I
guarantee you and this is myphilosophy is I'm talking to
other me's who have otherproducts to sell.
(18:37):
So if I don't have the rightsolution for you, I have to
establish myself as going likegreat, how do I save your inbox
from all these cold calls thatyou're getting going like look,
you should talk to Anika.
She's got something you'd wantbased on what you've just told
me, and so that's how I lived mycareer.
And from that understanding ofall about relationships, you
(18:59):
close deals because people knowthey can trust you.
But it's also a matter of whatI'm selling today may not be
there in the future.
But it's all about the timingand I'm a true, the universe
puts us together when you'remeant to be.
So if you say, hey, craig, thetiming's not right, I feel
terrible.
My quotas aren't getting hit.
But at the end of the day, I'mlike you're right.
(19:21):
It probably wasn't the righttiming.
Let's nurture this relationshipinstead of just trying to force
you into it.
Now, of course, in sales andrevenues, you've got to do a
little bit of both, but that'sliterally where the mindset came
.
I didn't come into.
The life is about time andrelationships.
You have no clue where oneconversation is going to lead,
so let's have it.
Until what?
(19:41):
Is it probably COVID, so a fewyears ago, where it all actually
started clicking, going likehold on?
I truly believe this.
Now I've just got to keepsaying it, as opposed to I'm not
sharing it.
Now I'm sharing it.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yeah, I have one observation and then a question.
I have one observation and thena question.
As you were saying that, I wasthinking about my other podcast
and the fact that most of thepeople that I interview on it
booked January or February of2024.
So they have waited an entireyear for this interview.
(20:15):
But, as you mentioned, Ibelieve that this is the right
time.
My podcast has grown a lot.
It's on the Apple charts in 10countries, some more, but I
think that for their businesses,the fact that they were willing
(20:43):
to wait, that they saw thevalue in building this
relationship, that we're able tocorrespond, and some people we
didn't build a relationshipuntil they actually came on for
the interview.
Other people, you know we did,but that's been really
fascinating case study formyself.
But it does show about thepower of time and relationships,
and one thing that we impart onour students at USC is that the
(21:07):
relationships they build withtheir classmates, whether
physically or whether online, isone of the most important
things that they'll get out ofthis experience, and I know that
you've also found that.
So I'd love for you to talk alittle bit about the USC
perspective.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
I mean I'll geek out on that one.
Like right, usc sells on on theTrojan Network and it is truly
the greatest network.
Like living out in LA for 20plus years, having friends from
Chicago to Big Ten schools likeno one else ever talks about.
Oh yeah, I can go and look atsomeone's LinkedIn and say, oh,
they went to Michigan and go,hey, I went to Michigan too.
(21:43):
They're like cool, right, like.
That's usually the response,whereas like hey, I went to USC,
where else is someone going togo?
Like fight on, let's talk.
Right, like that is it?
I mean, I don't even know.
Wolverine, is it?
I don't even know.
Yeah, whatever their slogan is,go blue, there you go, but it's
just not there.
So it's truly been nothing.
(22:03):
Everything has been arelationship from that regards.
But if you just want to pullthat thread and go, okay, I'm
going to go reach out to allTrojans and say, hey, I'm a
fellow Trojan, I would love totalk to you.
Most likely they will take thetime and connect with you,
because we want that Trojanlegacy, we want to continue to
push that.
Usc does an amazing job inselling that alumni network.
(22:25):
Since I was an undergrad, it'sbecome even better and so it's
been exciting to see how USC hascontinued to evolve to help
current students, existingalumni and everyone in between
current students, existingalumni and everyone in between,
and is that one of thetechniques that you've used when
(22:47):
you're doing cold outreach onLinkedIn or to a company?
When you're reaching out you'vegot so many different techniques
and saying like, oh, I see youwent to this school and
everyone's like all right, phony, whatever it is.
But the nice thing is you cansay I went to USC.
Good example Last week yeah, itwas last week literally saw
someone went to USC.
(23:07):
He's an MBA grad and I'm like,hey, undergrad SC.
My subject line was go Trojans.
Week later he wrote back and hesaid fight on right.
So like that's just a greatlittle story there alone.
On the connection piece, Idon't use it for anything else
besides.
Oh, you went to USC, right,because you went to Michigan.
(23:27):
I'm not going to say that right, it just doesn't work as well.
But for USC people, 100%,because there's a pride in
having that word.
And if someone's like did Ihave a good time at school,
great, Then you'll find out thatthat person didn't enjoy.
But I'm yet to really have thatexperience, so I'll keep going
(23:48):
with it.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yeah, yeah, hint, hint for all of the students who
are listening to this episode.
So we've talked a lot about thepower of community, of time and
relationships, whether it's theUSC community, the podcasting
community, which also is, handsdown, one of the most welcoming
amazing communities.
Collaboration over competition,you know, is a great phrase to
(24:12):
use.
That really applies here whenyou think about the revenue
mindset, because I know you'vetalked through.
People sometimes think thepodcast is what you're supposed
to monetize and, yes, that'sgreat, but you can use it for so
many other things in yourbusiness to monetize.
What are some of the thingspeople need to do to draw those
(24:33):
connections to get the revenuegrowth in terms of how do they?
You know, because some peoplecome on podcasts and they're all
business and they're not reallygiving you the things that you
can pull from the personalnarratives, the stories, the ups
and downs, the things thatpersonalize them and humanize
them to a listener and make themgo.
Ooh, that story really capturedme.
(24:55):
I aspire to be like that personor I want to try their brand
now, right, which all leads torevenue growth.
So what are some things thatpeople need to think about when
they're going into an interviewsituation, whether it's a
podcast, you know, tv, radio,online publication, whatever it
might be, to build that humanelement when it might be
(25:17):
uncomfortable to do so, when itmight be uncomfortable to do so.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
The greatest thing I always learned and if I haven't
mentioned this, I apologize, butlike, podcasting is all about
vulnerability, right.
So lean into that.
And, if nothing else, covid hastaught us, especially as we
work from home, right, like, dogwalks in whatever, like that's
the human nature, that's a humancondition that we are currently
(25:41):
living in.
And the polished I mean look, Idid put on a button down shirt
for this conversation, otherwise, yeah, I'd be in my hoodie
right now but the biggest thingwould be be vulnerable, be
understanding of that componentthat if you are preparing for
something, lean into that piece,have that conversation,
(26:01):
understand that you can andshould be vulnerable, because
people will connect with youmore.
And so, if we think about brandbuilding as a whole, people
want to work with people.
They know, like and trust.
So how do you know, like andtrust me if, like, you sense a
BS meter or you don't feel I'mauthentic or I'm just trying to
(26:22):
sell you?
Which, truth be told, anyonelistening like I say all the
time, life is about time andrelationships Everyone's like,
oh, you're just so sales.
I'm like, no, like, that istruly what I believe.
Right, like.
It does sound like a salesslogan, which is why I used it
so often, because it's justmemorable, it's easy, it's Greg.
Is time in relationshipsPerfect?
(26:43):
But like, that is who I am.
That's truly what I believe.
That's what you and I'veconnected over.
People want you to be authentic.
I was just listening to anotherpodcast and part of the whole
thing is is people are so let'stalk about the weather, let's
talk about the news, let's talkabout these other things, but
like, we want personalconnections, which is what I
love about podcasting.
(27:04):
What I love about thatinterview format is like let's
get nitty gritty, let's havethese deke out moments, let's
talk about the real things.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
That also, then, is going to build a better.
If we go to the PESA, yourecommend that they maybe
practice a couple of examplesthat they can use over and over
again on different podcasts.
If they're, for instance, justgoing on business podcasts, they
have that one vulnerable momentwhen the sale didn't go right
or they had something that was afailure.
That was really a lesson.
(27:47):
What are some of the constructswe can use for that
storytelling, to pull them outand get them, you know, used to
being a little bit out of theircomfort zone, so that they can
show up authentically to otherpeople or vulnerably to other
people?
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Look, you can go down the what is it?
The SWAT, right?
Situation.
I'm blanking now Switch rateaction tactic, right.
But yeah, have a couple storiesin mind, but I have no clue what
questions you're going to beasking me.
Right, like, so some shows arethey're going to give you?
Like hey, what questions you'reasking?
What are we talking about?
(28:24):
I usually wing it, good or bad.
I have no clue where this isgoing to take me, but that's
also my belief.
Like I have no clue where oneconversation is going to go and
like we just pull a thread andwe go with it.
So be open to that.
But yeah, practice, have acouple stories that you want to
talk about.
Preparation's key in thatregards is you and I were
talking like hold on, who's theaudience that's listening to
(28:45):
this show?
Like, what stories would makesense?
Clearly, everyone.
I'm going to talk about USCmultiple times, because how can
I not as a fellow Trojan, butalso working in media for the
last 20 years like great,there's many things that we can
talk about in that regard.
So if you're bringing someoneon or you are a guest going into
someone else's show, know whotheir audience is.
But I guess this also goes toask the questions.
(29:08):
Hey, before I come on your show, I know I should have done my
research, whatever the case maybe, but, like you know better
than I do who's the core person?
Is there anything that you wantme to cover?
Like, you can have these, pullthese threads and ask these
questions, and that's okay to doso.
The person that's coming onyour show that signed up and you
had them fill out a form a yearago right, let's be honest, I
(29:32):
filled out this form.
I don't know how long ago, but Idon't remember what I filled
out in the form, so I canimagine someone who filled this
out a year ago, right, I can'tremember what I did last week,
yet alone, I'm sick.
Now I can't remember what I didearlier today, right?
So it's just having thosevulnerable moments of realizing
we're human.
I had a call today and I'm likeyou're not getting the best
version of myself.
(29:53):
I'm sick, my brain's foggy.
Why are we talking?
And then, once we start talking, I'm like, oh, okay, now it's
all coming back.
But like those are the easiestways to have vulnerability, no,
does it make the greatestsoundbite?
Like someone that's listeningto this right now, going like
(30:14):
Greg, probably just shut up,great.
But in reality, that is thehuman connection.
That is me, that is the raw andthat's what people want to hear
yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
And the important thing is, you did show up, right
.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
That is the biggest thing.
I think consistency is key,right, even doing this, you've
been able to get to where youare from a podcast standpoint
because consistently,consistently, every day, you're
putting out content.
So anyone that's in yourprogram knows like you got to
keep showing up.
Sure, maybe there's a studentwho never shows up and they get
an, a jealous of that person,but you can't do that always in
(30:44):
life, right?
So consistently is key.
Consistently show up,consistently, reach out to
people.
So if we go back to time andrelationships me I'm the kind of
person who does those textmessages.
Like literally 10 o'clock lastnight my friends popped in my
head I know they're asleepbecause of the time difference
I'm like just thinking of you,right, like those are simple
(31:04):
things that we can all just doto create those relationships.
So if you are going on someoneelse's show, how do I help you?
Like me coming on your show, isyou helping me?
What could I do to help you?
And some of the time, yourguests won't do that.
So as a host, you've got to doa better job to empower that
person to do that.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Yeah, yeah, that's a really great point.
What does your day-to-day looklike?
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Right now I'm on a project, so it's a little
different, but normally I liketo fill my calendar with calls.
Time blocking, I've learned, isa key piece.
But, once again, if I believethat you have no clue where one
conversation can go, calendar'sopen, let's have a conversation.
I'll figure something out,whether it's a connection,
whether it's a business, whetherit's something of value that
(31:51):
both of us are able to walk awaywith.
So more conversations I canhave.
Great.
As you can tell, I'm anextrovert, so I also want to
talk to people.
So last week, not being on thephone and just researching and
researching and researching, Iwas drained, which is also
probably why I got sick, becauseI'm like I need to talk.
(32:13):
Talking fuels me, right?
So if that's something you like, you're going to work in
revenue, you're going to work insales, right?
But for me, day to day, let'shave conversations, let's
connect, let's think about who Iconnect with other people so
that good ideas can cometogether.
Anyone that's listening, right.
You always want to have someonelike yourself where it's like
(32:36):
I'm a connector.
You have a business idea?
Well, I know other people thatI can help you with that
business idea and I think that'sthe biggest thing I could say
If you walk away with anything,ask for help, probably the
biggest thing.
Most people won't ask for helpand that goes back to
vulnerability, but it's actuallya huge lift if we can all just
ask for help because now you areactually empowering another
(32:58):
person to go.
Wow, they think highly of methat they're actually asking me
to do something or help themwith something.
That's a confidence boost forthat person.
But also you know it when youhelp someone, how that feels.
So so I would definitely sayall that I know.
I went on a tangent onanswering your question of like
what's my day-to-day?
Day-to-day is let's haveconversations and figure out
(33:21):
where I can create partnerships,where I can create connections,
where we can create revenue orjust good opportunities, because
good people can meet goodpeople and it doesn't have to be
a revenue tied to it, but youjust know these people should
connect.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
That's how we started.
I think he just reached out.
We had a connection call.
I said, okay, jump on thepodcast and we'll figure out the
rest later.
We'll figure out who we canintroduce each other to.
But that's such an importantpart of the networking aspect
too is you don't have to knowwhere it's going to lead, as
you've said many times earlier.
(33:55):
You just have to make thatconnection.
You have to ask for a meeting,maybe have a couple of things
teed up that you want to askabout and then see where else it
goes.
Speaker 3 (34:04):
I'll actually pull that thread.
We actually our connection camebecause we were both speaking
at an event and I reached out onLinkedIn to people that were
speaking at an event and ourpaths didn't cross at the event
because, as we all know, whatconferences good luck running to
everyone that you would want torun into, good problem to have.
(34:25):
But also then I think youposted something on LinkedIn and
I saw it.
I'm like, oh my God, we stillhaven't connected here.
And that's where, months later,we're like, all right, we've
got to make this happen.
Goes back to created theconnection early on, but the
timing wasn't right until nowand look at where we've been
able to take that conversationconnection since then.
(34:46):
So if we go back full circle tothose people that signed up a
year ago, the timing is now formany reasons.
Some may get it, some may not.
But yeah, I'd be consistentlyshowing up, yeah, consistently
ask for help and continue to dothe work, because someone's got
to do it right.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah, absolutely Well , you just gave a really great
end cap to this conversation andI think all that's left to say
is that, for everybody listening, greg is ready to start a
relationship with you, so I'mgoing to include his LinkedIn in
the show notes and know thatyou have a warm welcoming,
trojan alum, who's willing tospeak to you about probably not
(35:30):
just podcasting and revenue, butany number of things that you
want to ask as you're going intoyour world of work and business
and life.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Yeah, I love being a plethora of industries, so let's
talk.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Awesome, and with that, thank you to everybody
who's listening to this episodeof Mediascape Insights from
Digital Changemakers.
I'm one of your hosts, annikaJackson, and I'll be back again
with another great guest nextweek.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
To learn more about the Master of Science in Digital
Media Management program, visitus on the web at dmmuscedu.
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