Insights from My Second Divorce: Creating Self Awareness

Hi, welcome to MediatorPodcast.com, a podcast and video series about mediation, negotiation strategies and collaboration. My name is Melissa Gragg, and I'm a valuation expert and divorce financial mediator in St. Louis, Missouri. 

Today we are speaking with Leah Marie Mazur about her personal insights from her first and second divorce and how this journey helped her gain clarity and self-awareness. Leah is a certified Divorce Recovery Coach in Buffalo, New York and founder of Mindfully Ready LLC. She specializes in helping her clients heal after divorce so they can create a healthy, happy, and fulfilling new chapter for themselves and their kids. 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, welcome to mediator podcast.com, a podcast
on veyo series about mediation,negotiation strategies and
collaboration. My name'sMelissa Greg , and I'm
valuation expert and divorcefinancial mediator in St.
Louis, Missouri. Today we'respeaking with Leah Marie Maer
about her personal insightsfrom her first and second

(00:21):
divorce and how this journeyhelped her gain clarity and
self-awareness. Leah is acertified Divorce recovery
coach in Buffalo, New York, andfounder of Mindfully Ready .
She works and specializes , uh,with working with high conflict
clients around the country, butshe helps her clients heal
after divorce so they cancreate a healthy, happy,

(00:42):
fulfilling next chapter forthemselves and their kids.
Welcome, Leah. How are you?

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Thank you. I'm, I'm good. I'm excited to hang out
with you.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
So should we go by Leah Marie ? Is that, is that
You

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Can call me Leah .
Yeah, either

Speaker 1 (00:55):
Way. Okay. So I actually wanna tell everybody
that I found you on TikTok andyou talk a lot about , um, kind
of divorce in a similar waythat I do, which is a lot goes
on in the court and a lot goeson financially, but there's a
lot of emotions. Mm-Hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
And there's also kind of, you know, the process
of self-discovery as you gothrough when a relationship
kind of , um, deteriorates orends, because it doesn't have
to be bad, it could just end.
Yep .

Speaker 2 (01:29):
But

Speaker 1 (01:29):
Maybe if, if we wanna start getting into some
of these insights, I think theeasiest way to start is kind of
take us back to the beginningof like, what, in the first
part, like what sort of causedthe first thing, you know,
like, we can't tell the wholestory, but we can certainly,
did you identify some of thethings that kind of broke down

(01:51):
in the relationship that thatgot you there?

Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah. I can, I can tell you, so I'll take you back
a little ways. When, when I was16 years old, I actually
witnessed my mom have an asthmaattack in our home and die. It
was crazy. It was very, verytraumatic. And within five
years after she passed away, mydad died of pancreatic cancer,

(02:16):
and I'm an only child. Andbetween those two losses, I
found myself in a relationshipwith a narcissist. It was
horrible. It was extremelyabusive. So by the time my dad
died, I was a mess. I was solost. I had no self-esteem full
of abandonment issues. I wasjust going through it, and I

(02:39):
really didn't have guidance orsupport on how to cope or
process anything that I hadexperienced. So I was
essentially floating around theplanet, just not knowing what
to do. And so my copingmechanism became serial
monogamy. I was hopping fromrelationship to relationship

(03:01):
for years because I felt likethose were the buoys that were
keeping me afloat. That was howI could feel like I was a part
of something and not feel soalone and isolated. And so when
I met my, my first husband, I,we actually first met when I
was 19 years old. He hired meat Blockbuster, remember

(03:22):
Blockbuster . Uh, andso, but we ended up dating on
and off. We broke up like fourtimes before we even got
married. That should have beena red flag, but I didn't even
know what red flags were backthen. And we, there was no
engage , there was no likeproposal or engagement. We had
a conversation one day aboutgetting married, and then eight

(03:44):
weeks later we were, and we, wegot through about five years.
We had one daughter. Butlooking back, so, so clearly I
can see that we really justweren't compatible. We did not
make a good team. And one ofthe things that I've shared,
and that was hard for me toreally accept and come to terms

(04:07):
with, was that I was neverphysically attracted to him.
And I convinced myself thatthat was of me. That was very
shallow and that it's what insit's what it was inside that
counts. It's who , who he is asa person. The out outside
doesn't matter, but it does,there was a lot missing from

(04:30):
that relationship, not justthat compatibility piece as far
as being a team, but on allthose levels, mentally,
emotionally, spiritually,physically, like we did not
align. And so I, one of my kindof aha moments was, I remember
sitting on the couch watchingTV and an eHarmony commercial

(04:50):
came on. And I remember sayingto myself, God , like, I wish I
could do that. I wish I couldsign up for eHarmony and like
find my person. And I just knewthat was kind of my like, oh
man, I know that I'm not withthe right person. And so I, I
wound up getting a divorce andthen doing all the wrong things
after the first divorce.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
So when, when you were going through. So I think
that a lot of things that yousay resonate with people
because, you know,generationally we've been
encouraged to get marriedyounger. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
You

Speaker 1 (05:28):
Know, we've been encouraged to almost become a
person that is a worthy wife ora , you know, like, and really,
we were talking about thisearlier, like, I don't think
people are training men to belike worthy husbands, but
definitely we were beingtrained to kind of be this, you
know, quiet and cook and, andbe, and then kind of just be

(05:51):
okay with whoever comes alongand gives you attention and
like, oh, well, they couldmarry you well, you know, they
could provide, and all of thesethings, were those the same
things that you were goingthrough because, you know, you
didn't have any kind of thefoundation of that immediate
family Mm-Hmm.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
. Were

Speaker 1 (06:10):
You kind of seeking that family? Or how do you
think your trauma, because alot of it for self-awareness is
kind of identifying your owntrauma. Like Yeah .

Speaker 2 (06:20):
Were

Speaker 1 (06:20):
You able to start identifying like, some of that,
that you came into thatrelationship with?

Speaker 2 (06:26):
I didn't start identifying what was going on
with me until after my seconddivorce, honestly. And that's
why I wound up with, with thesecond divorce, you know,
'cause I did all the wrongthings. But that absolutely, I
mean, we are primed to havethat goal. You, you grow up,
you graduate, you get a job,you get married. That's like
everybody's framework. And evenin, in movies and things that

(06:48):
we are inundated with all thetime, that's like the message
that we were getting. And thenyou see all your friends doing
it and you think, oh, I'mbehind. Everyone's getting
married. I gotta find my, andso when I wasn't in a
relationship, I felt likesomething was wrong with me.
I'm not good enough. I'm notenough. So nobody wants me.
And, and I felt like I neededto be in a relationship to

(07:11):
almost prove to myself and toeveryone else that I was
lovable.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
Hmm .

Speaker 2 (07:15):
So I unknowingly settled in a relationship
because I just thought, well,this is a good person, so what
else matters? ? Right .
I mean , if he's a good person,that's all I can ask for.
Right. And I had no idea whatreally goes into a successful
marriage, a a long-termrelationship and , and how to

(07:37):
have a healthy relationshipbecause my, me , myself, I
wasn't in a healthy place.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yeah. Well, and I think that a lot of times when
people kind of start to getdivorced, you know, they start
to do, well, first of all, it'sa process to get divorced, so
you might separate, right?
Mm-Hmm . , butstill be in the divorce
process. How long did it takefor you guys to kind of go
through that process and howdid you cope? Because a lot of

(08:05):
people kind of start datingwhen they're still in the
process of getting divorced.
Um, you know, like there ,it's, it is in a very , it ,
it's stressful and emotional.
So like, having a supportsystem is, you know, what
people need, you know? Yes . Sowhat did, what were some of the
things that you did when youwere in that first divorce? Um,

Speaker 2 (08:26):
Yeah, the first divorce, I, I did all the stuff
you're not supposed to do. Idid not take the time to
self-reflect or heal or buildmy self-esteem. I immediately
hopped into anotherrelationship with someone who I
was very physically attractedto. 'cause at that point, I
felt like, well, I haven't hadthis in a long time. So right
now that's priority one. That'smy goal. And so I, I was in a

(08:47):
relationship , uh, right away,unhealthy relationship that
lasted about two years. But tome, at that time, that was m my
place of solace almost. I usedthat relationship to get out of
the show . That was my divorce.

(09:07):
I, it's painful and it'sstressful and it's difficult.
And financially you're worried.
I mean, there's so much goingon that having that
relationship was almostsomething that soothed me. And
it was an escape fromeverything that I was going
through. And that, that'sreally a , a really common
reason to hop into arelationship really quickly.

(09:29):
But it's not a good way tostart a relationship. I mean ,
you're not starting that. It'snot a strong foundation to
build a healthy relationshipon. So again, I was in a
relationship for the wrongreasons , still not knowing who
I am, what I want,self-reflecting. So it lasted
about two years, and I had noself-esteem after that. And

(09:51):
again, was back to all that ininner critic, negative
self-talk. So what do I do?
Well, I go right back on thedating apps. 'cause that was my
habit. And , uh, I married thefirst person I went on a date
with. I found him on an app.
We, we dated for a few months.
He moved in, and then like ayear later we were married. And
a couple years into that, thatwas my real aha moment. I will

(10:13):
never forget I was in mybedroom. I fell to my knees
crying because I knew what Ihad done. And I knew that I had
to go through this all overagain because I didn't do
anything the right way. And Iknew I had to get divorced
again. And I was so at myself,and I was so embarrassed, you
know, oh my God, what arepeople gonna think? What does

(10:34):
this mean here I am 36, I'mgetting divorced twice. I'm ,
I'm such a mess, all thatnegative self-talk. Mm . But
then that was really thecatalyst for something
beautiful for me, because thatwas when I really started my
own healing journey. And I, andI started cultivating
self-awareness and figuring outwhy I made the choices I made,

(10:57):
and how I got to where I wasand empowered myself to make
different choices that servedme moving forward. And that has
really never ended. And that'sa journey that really continues
forever. And I , I'm still onit, but I'm in such a healthy
place now because of all thework that I did after that

(11:18):
second divorce.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
Well, and I wanna talk about some of the
similarities between , uh, thepatterns that you see. But for
, but before we get back, justto kind of hone in on something
that you said, I think a lot ofpeople, like I have also been
handling high net worth of ourdivorce for like 20 years. And
I think that part of, you know,this dynamic is , um, we become

(11:46):
this person to, to get marriedto a person that has potential,
right? Mm-Hmm . .
And so they're smart. They'regoing to college, they're gonna
be a doctor, they're gonna be alawyer. They're, they're gonna
provide for us and all thisthing. And so we, we ignore the
need for passion or for like,the thrill, because we've sort
of been like, no, get the calmlife with the, with the two

(12:08):
dogs or the dog , whatever itis . You know, the picket fence
kind of concept. But when youlook at it, a lot of people who
are getting divorced, even from5, 10, 15, 20 year marriages
didn't have that passion forthe majority of the time. And
then the person actuallybecomes just horrible to live
with or something like, theycan't even be a good roommate.

(12:30):
Right?

Speaker 2 (12:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
But talk a little bit about how important that is
in figuring that out for you.
Like, because that is attachedto like your passion for
yourself and your love foryourself. But

Speaker 2 (12:45):
The passion

Speaker 1 (12:46):
Is a real thing. So a lot of times they come off of
this first divorce and they arejust like, I'm gonna go hang
out with the hottest people,the most ama , you know, like
thrill seekers and stuff likethat. And is that almost the
other extreme that might notalso be where, you know? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
Because there's such a balance. It does really come
down to knowing yourself and,and understanding what you
need, what you want in arelationship, but what you need
in a relationship. Like whatare your standards? What are
your deal breakers? And Ididn't know those things before
getting into thoserelationships. I had no idea. I
was just looking for someonewho liked me and who felt like

(13:27):
taking, taking me on wasn't aburden. That's really how I
felt. And, but it is soimportant because there's so
many levels. I mean, you reallyhave to think about this . This
isn't like you just fall inlove and then this is the
person you should be with forthe rest of your life. Love is
just like a very smallpercentage of, of how to make
that work. There's so manyother layers to it, because

(13:49):
you're, you're , uh, you'rebecoming a team. You have to be
with somebody who shares commongoals. You can have different
interests, but you have to haveenough in common and see the
world in a similar perspectivein order for you to reach these
goals together. And you can getvery specific. I mean, you

(14:09):
wanna be asking questions like,what is your parenting style?
What is your love language?
What is your debt to income reratio? What's your credit
score? Who do you vote for inyour political parties? How do
you spend your money? How doyou save your money? How do you
invest your money? All of theselittle things that we don't
talk about or that we're afraidor embarrassed to talk about.

(14:31):
We don't wanna offend people.
That becomes the big thingsthat wind up destroying
relationships because you'renot agreeing on things the
day-to-day stuff, or thethings, the big things that end
up coming in and happening. Ifyou guys can't be on the same
page, you're, you're up againsta wall, what are you gonna do?

(14:51):
Then you're, you're married tothis person who, who's supposed
to be your teammate, but you,there's conflict because you
aren't seeing things the sameway. But there are also ways
to, and I'm not saying in arelationship, there should
never be disagreements, butthere's also different ways to
navigate those disagreements. Imean, one thing I've learned
now, and I am now in thehealthiest relationship I've

(15:12):
ever been because I'm thehealthiest I've ever been. But
we disagree. Well, we, wedon't, there's no door
slamming. There's no namecalling . There's no throwing.
There's, there's no silenttreatment. We can just talk
about it. We can have adisagreement and then
communicate about it, and thenmove forward. And we respect

(15:35):
each other's feelings andthoughts, and it's just so much
easier than I've everexperienced in previous
relationships where you'refeeling like you're trying to
fit that, you know, square peginto a round hole.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
Mm-Hmm.
. Well, and Ithink that some of this comes
down to self-worth self love ,self-respect. I know that very
recently , um, you know, myhusband and I had a
conversation with a husband.
I'm like, you know what? I'mgonna respect every decision,
every thought that you haveabout your own body, your own

(16:12):
everything as just the word,right? Like, it just is. I'm
not gonna say, oh, do youreally think you should do
that? Or, oh, do you, becauseyou were talking about some of
that self negative talk Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
That

Speaker 1 (16:24):
Comes into play. And it's sort of like, that is some
of the talk that a lot of ushad when we were younger of
like, you're not good enough.
And if somebody loves you, youshould just take it. Because
Yeah . They may never, youmight not be loved. And you
also , and your

Speaker 2 (16:37):
Chances will I get, I'm only getting older.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
But you also get that in abusive relationships,
even if it , you know, likethey, somebody will continue to
tell you at the end of therelationship, like, you're
unlovable. No one's going to dothis, da da da . Yeah . And ,
and you come out of thoserelationships with this like
, no one's gonna Yeah .
And you , it's not like a joke.

(17:01):
Like, you really have takenthat. How did your two divorces
affect your self-worth or yourview of yourself and impact,
you know, like, you can tell meat any transition, but maybe
the first to the second orwhatever. But it seems like
there had to be a , atrajectory where you said, Hey,
I'm good enough for this. I nowexpect better.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
Right?

Speaker 1 (17:25):
Yeah . But how, what , how did you progress through
that process?

Speaker 2 (17:28):
Yeah. After my divorces, I definitely had low
self-esteem. I was dealing withanxiety and depression and
things that I didn't evenrealize I was going through
until after, and I could lookback more objectively. But
really, the shift for me, itwas after my second divorce
where I started getting intomindfulness and meditation
practice. That changed my wholelife because that taught me how

(17:51):
to cultivate self-awareness andhow to become the observer of
my thoughts. Because when yourthoughts are running rampant,
and then it's causing theseemotions in your body that are
uncomfortable or that, that youdeem as negative, you're
essentially, your , your brainis like just taking you through
a ride. It's like, it's like anemotional rollercoaster. But

(18:12):
what I didn't realize was thatI actually had control of that.
I could choose my own thoughts.
I can decide how I felt aboutmyself. I can use things like
affirmations as tools toreprogram my subconscious so
that I felt differently aboutmyself. And that's what I
started doing. I intentionallywould choose different thoughts

(18:35):
that in turn gave me differentfeelings as a result. So it
takes practice and consistency,but it's absolutely possible.
I, I love affirmations. I stilluse them every day . When I
catch myself kind of thinkingsomething negative or
anticipating a negative outcomeor something like that, I catch

(18:56):
myself because I've cultivatedthat self-awareness, and I'm
aware of what's going on in mybrain, and then I can on
purpose, choose a differentthought. And then that gives
you different results. And sothat's the, the best tool that
helps me. And I talk about thiswith my clients all the time,
because most people are walkingaround on autopilot. Ev 95% of

(19:20):
what we do is controlled by oursubconscious. So we're not even
re we don't even realize it'sjust all of these patterns and
programs and habits andbehaviors that we have that we
don't think about or questionto, to ask ourselves, where,
where did this come from? Whendid this start? Is this
something that I even believeanymore? So if you're feeling
like about yourself, if youfeel, if you're having those

(19:43):
thoughts of, I'm not goodenough, no one's gonna want me,
I'm only getting , gettingolder, then it's going to keep
you feeling like. So when youcan acknowledge that, that's
actually the conversationyou're having with yourself
about yourself, you can decideto say, I am good enough, I am
worthy, I am whole, I amdeserving I, whatever

(20:03):
affirmations you wanna use, themore you, you speak those to
yourself on purpose, thatbecomes your new belief. And
then it changes how you feel,and then it changes how you
show up in the world, whichgives you completely different
results in your life.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
Well, and, and I think that one aspect of
becoming more self-aware ordoing meditation is you have to
be aware of your ownparticipation in the
relationship. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
And

Speaker 1 (20:37):
I think that at the end, when people are getting
divorced, especially if you'rein, in the divorce, right?
Mm-Hmm.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
,

Speaker 1 (20:43):
Everything that's going bad is their fault.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
Totally. Yes.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
And so you get in that, and then you're like, and
then you're seeking out thingsthat are bad to be like, see,
it's, you are the one, andyou're the one. And then when I
sit back, and I, I I, and ofcourse I have a little bit
different coaching style, whichis not always, but it's just
the truth. Like, okay , youdidn't have access to those

(21:07):
accounts. You didn't know wherethe accounts were, you didn't
know how to pay bills. Yeah .
But guess what? You , you can,and you have to take
accountability. But if you, ifyou take accountability of your
own actions, it then becomesapparent that you might also be
part of the problem. And

Speaker 2 (21:26):
You can only . Yes . That's
hard. Yeah . That's hard tolook at. It's like that shadow
work. Totally. Thatself-reflection piece is
necessary if you really want toheal and empower yourself.
Because if you don't do that,you're gonna make the same
mistakes over and over andover. You're just going to,
it's gonna be like GroundhogDay when you can look back and
you can really be honest withyourself and say, what role did

(21:49):
I play in this? Where was Imentally and emotionally when I
started this relationship? Whatred flags did I miss or ignore?
What boundaries was I, were Inot setting? What, what role
did I play? Not how is this myfault, but what could I have
done differently? Or what do Iknow now that I didn't know

(22:09):
before? When you do that, thatwill give you a completely
different perspective of whatkind of choices to make moving
forward.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
Mm-Hmm , . Well, and I
think that, you know, it's,it's sort of like, you don't
need to say whose fault it is,but it's like, what, what do I
no longer wanna do goingforward? That was obviously not
productive in this situation.
That really is a me thing,right? Yeah . It's

Speaker 2 (22:34):
My

Speaker 1 (22:35):
Personality or my issue that somebody responded
to.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
Yeah. Um , or like, did I have unreasonable
expectations? Some people getinto a relationship thinking
that , well, this person'ssupposed to make me happy.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
Yeah. And

Speaker 2 (22:49):
That's just not true. You are always
responsible for your ownhappiness in a relationship is
somebody adding value to yourlife. You have to make sure
that you are whole and happyand fulfilled all by yourself
first before you add arelationship into your life.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
Right. And I think that that is very hard to , for
people to understand orcomprehend when they're in the
mix, and they're sort of like,you know what? Thanks,
appreciate that. Great advice,you jerk. You know? But let's
talk a little bit about thestigma of the second divorce,
because I'm telling you, I do alot of divorce and people are

(23:25):
divorced once two, three. It'slike, I think we almost have to
get away from giving a sh careabout if it, but, but let's at
least let's look at what theblessing or the lesson was .
Mm-Hmm .

Speaker 2 (23:40):


Speaker 1 (23:40):
Of , you know , you, you obviously had already
gotten married and divorced .
So Miss Leah , what, why didyou have to get divorced a
second time? Mm-Hmm .
. Like, what didyou learn? What Yeah , what
made it happen this time?

Speaker 2 (23:54):
So what I learned was you shouldn't rush into
relationships, because I didn'ttake the time to really not
only get to know myself, whichwas problem number one, but
really get to know the personthat I was marrying. And there
was a lot of dishonesty that Ididn't catch until it was too

(24:16):
late and we were too deep. Andso if I would've slowed down
and not been in that mindset oflack, I was coming from lack,
not feeling good enough,worrying about my finances,
afraid I'd be alone forever. Sowhen I found this person that
was nice and would take me on,I felt like, well, how many

(24:37):
more chances am I gonna get?
And so we rushed into things,and it didn't give me enough
time. And so as the yearsprogressed, things would come
up in our relationship wherethere would be, he would be
lying about things, and hewould be, he would, he, like,
went through seven differentjobs and like the two years

(24:58):
that we were together. Andthere was just a lot of things
that we ended up not agreeingon. And again, it's like we
didn't make a good team, andthis person showed up on their
best behavior in the beginningof the relationship. They, they
almost created this, thisperson that didn't exist. And,

(25:20):
and , and I know that thishappens a lot with narcissists,
and I, I , he is not anarcissist, but he's someone
who I think just himself. He,he just wanted to be in a
relationship badly. He didn'tlike being alone. And so he put
on this facade, and I bought itbecause I was desperate. And so
then in our relationship, as westarted just living life and

(25:41):
things started happening, we,we disagreed constantly. We
were always screaming at eachother. We were never on the
same page. And it just becamesomething that I, I really lost
respect really quickly becauseof the choices that he would
make and the lies that I wasbeing told. And I feel like
once that's gone, trust andrespect, you're. And that's

(26:01):
really, really hard to getback. Trust, respect,
communication. I mean, thoseare such pillars in a
relationship. And so I got to apoint where I was like, I'm not
gonna do this for the rest ofmy life. There's no way, number
one, it's not healthy. Numbertwo, this is not an example
that I wanna set for mydaughter of what a , what a
relationship looks like. And soI decided to leave, even though
I knew that it wasn't gonnalook great on the outside, and

(26:23):
that I was gonna probably get alot of judgment for it, but I
just refused to stay in arelationship that I knew wasn't
healthy. And so when I left, I,I knew that I needed to figure
out why I kept finding myselfin that position so that I
could do things differentlymoving forward.

Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yeah. And, and I think I see a lot of divorces
where, you know, men may bewanting somebody in that role,
right? Somebody to be theperson that they can have
relationship with, somebodythat they can have clean their
house and cook for them and doall these things. Whereas women

(27:01):
want a little bit differentstuff. Now when you start to
introduce money and somebodykind of having control over the
money, and then once you to dothings their way and like you
perform as their companion kindof thing. I think that I've
seen some of that happen. Andtypically it's women are just

(27:23):
in a people pleasing type oflike, okay, I wanna be the best
wife. I wanna be the this, Iwanna be the, that. I don't ask
questions. I don't know wherethe money comes from, you know?
And some of that is based onjust not being upfront with our
own needs, our own desires, ourown, you know, minimum, if you

(27:45):
will. So if we, if we talkabout some of this, like, how
do you think some of thesedivorces affected how, you
know, 'cause so now you havethe first divorce and the
second divorce. Mm-Hmm.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
But were , did you feel like you had really healed
before the second one? Or did alot of your healing have to
come in after those divorces?
Like what kind of made , youknow, like what were some of
the changes even that you madeabout how you saw relationships
going forward?

Speaker 2 (28:18):
I, yeah, I did no healing or self-reflection
after my first divorce, whichis why I hopped right into
another relationship. And thenfrom there, hopped right into
another one. So after thesecond divorce, I started doing
all the things, reading books,listening to podcasts,
journaling, meditating. I just,when I was in the process of

(28:40):
divorcing my second husband, Ihad to stay in the marital home
for about six months before Imoved out, because I had to
save money so that I couldafford to leave. And so I spent
a lot of time in my room bymyself. And then on the
weekends when he was home, Iwould just leave. I would go
somewhere else so that I couldjust reflect and process. And

(29:03):
then when I had gotten into a ,a new space to live , um, I
lived there alone for about twoyears. And even though I still
dated, I said I would still goout, like when my daughter
wasn't home or when she wasgone, you know, with her dad
for the summer, I would stilldate. But it was so different

(29:24):
than anything that I hadexperienced before, because my
mindset was different. When Iwas showing up on dates now, it
was almost like I was justdoing it for, for fun. And it
was like, are you what I'mlooking for? Are you good

(29:45):
enough for me? Are you gonnaadd value to my life? That was
never where I was at beforethat. I would show up on dates
like, am am I good enough foryou? Are they gonna like me? Am
I wearing the right thing? Am Isaying the right thing? Am I do
the right things? And that,that's not a good place to be
when you're trying to find yourideal partner. So when I

(30:07):
started getting into the datingworld after that divorce, all
of that work that I was doinginternally was showing up in,
in, in mindset shifts. I wasable to just have a completely
different perspective. And Iknew that I was never gonna
settle because I knew whathappened when I did, when I
settled in relationships, theresult I was getting was
relationships and divorce. AndI knew I didn't wanna do that

(30:28):
again. So I knew I had to dothat work to figure out who I
was to, to like myself, toaccept myself, to forgive
myself for all the mistakes Imade and all the bad choices
that I made to try to find thesilver linings in everything
that I had gone through. And tofigure out how those can

(30:52):
benefit me moving forward to,to find the wisdom in all of
the that I had experienced, sothat I can empower myself
moving forward. Doing all thatwork helped me get to know
myself and love myself. Andthat in turn, had me showing up

(31:12):
differently on, on dates,because if they weren't what I
was looking for, it , it didn'tmatter. It didn't matter
anymore. If didn't work out, Icould show up on dates, and if
they didn't like me or I gotghosted, or it didn't work out,
it was like, whatever, like , I'm , I'm fine . I
don't need you. I don't need arelationship to be happy
anymore. I could just makemyself happy. And so, if I find

(31:35):
somebody that adds value to mylife and that I feel like makes
a good partner for me, greatbonus. But if I don't, I'm
still okay.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
Yeah. Well, and, and maybe this plays into it
because I think that sometimespeople are, you know, and we
maybe talked to a , haven'ttalked too much about this, but
like, codependency orindependence or dependent on
somebody, like these are the ,the variations Mm-Hmm . That
you have when you're notautonomous. Right? When I'm not

(32:10):
just making the best decisionsfor myself, I'm either
codependent, I'm dependent, orI'm hyper independent, which
are all kind of traumaresponses in some capacity. How
did that play? Because I , Ilove what you're saying. I
think what happens with peopleis when they get divorced, it's

(32:30):
such a difficult process.
They're like, I'm never gonnado it again unless it's great,
right? Yeah . And so they dokind of sit back and be like,
Nope, I'm not just takinganything this time, .
Like, it's gotta be good.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
Yeah. You learn your lesson. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
Yeah. So talk a little bit about that, or like
how you see it play into someof these relationships.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
Yeah, I, I mean, codependency was definitely
something that I, that I wasdealing with. And it goes back
to that self-reflection piece,because if you don't understand
your intention, if you don'tunderstand why you're making
the choices you're making, orwhy you want the things you
think you want, then you'realmost doing it blindly. So

(33:14):
when you take a step back, andif you, if you think you have
this goal, or you think youwanna date this person, take a
step back and really askyourself, why, what am I, what,
what is my intention here? Do Ifeel like if I'm not in a
relationship, I feel like I'mnot good enough? Or do I have
to prove to myself that I'mworthy by finding somebody who

(33:37):
will love me and accept me? AmI relying on this person for
happiness? Am I relying on thisperson to be taken care of
financially, emotionally,physically, or otherwise? And
I, I think that that's soimportant because when you know
how to meet your own needs and,and identify your own needs, I
guess first of all, firstidentify and then be able to

(33:59):
meet your own needs. You are insuch a powerful place because
then you know that you'rechoosing partners not out of
need or lack or like filling avoid that you have within
yourself. You're just choosingpartners based on whether or
not you honestly think that youmake a good team or if they're
adding value to your life. Andthat was something that I was
never doing before. So I waschoosing these partners to fill

(34:22):
voids. I was choosing thembecause I wanted to feel a part
of something or taken care ofor lovable. And it's not gonna
get you great results when youdo that. So when you can, and
it's scary. It is scary to, ifyou've never really been on
your own, that's hard. It'shard to do that. And, but when
you push yourself outside of,of that comfort zone, and you

(34:45):
figure out how to supportyourself financially and
mentally and emotionally, andreally just create a life that
feels good and, and findfulfillment, and get hobbies
and creative outlets, and justdo things for yourself, that
puts you in such a great placeto find a relationship if you
want one, because then you, youdo know your standards. You do

(35:09):
have your deal breakers , andyou're not going to settle for
someone because of fear.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
Well, and I, and I think that you're hitting on a
couple areas that are prettyimpactful, which is, you know,
if you want a different result,you are going to have to shift
the patterns that you havecreated about who you are, how
you respond in a relationship,you know? And I think that you

(35:40):
have given a ton of differentperspectives of like how you
shift your perspective for therelationship. But what were the
internal patterns? Like whatwere the real, like things that
you had to break? Mm-Hmm .
, you know,because when it comes down to
it, any relationship issue,friendship, family , uh,

(36:02):
partner, it, it is probablyunhealed trauma in your own
life that you're, you'reprojecting on somebody else.
Mm-Hmm . , right? So , how do we change
ourselves? And what are some ofthe things that, that you found
helpful? Not just themodalities, but like you, you
know, like what did you have tochange about, about how you

(36:26):
went about relat shipping ?
Mm-Hmm . , um, tobe healthier,

Speaker 2 (36:31):
I had to work on my own sec insecurities big time.
I mean, I, I was strugglingwith deep abandonment issues
from the loss of my parents andfrom being in an abusive
relationship. And , and Ididn't even know that that's
what it was until I startedself-reflecting, and I had to
figure out how to startspeaking to myself differently.

(36:55):
I mean, that, it's so hugebecause if I look back to how I
was talking to myself, it wasawful. I, I was always
comparing myself to others. Iwas always feeling insecure in
different aspects of my life.
Like I wasn't good enough orsmart enough, or , um, feeling

(37:16):
like unless somebody liked me,you know, in a relationship
that, that there was somethingwrong with me. Those were
really, like, the , the thingsthat was going on in my brain
was like, if some , if someonedoesn't, doesn't like me, it
means there's something wrongwith me. So when I started
doing that, that mindfulnessand meditation and getting a

(37:38):
better grip on what wasactually going on in my brain,
that's what helped me paycloser attention to the
conversations I was having withmyself. And once I started
doing that, it changed how Ifelt about myself. Because
anytime I would catch a thoughtlike, you're not good enough,
or you don't deserve it, orsomething wrong with you, I

(38:00):
would intentionally startchoosing different dialogue
that made me feel differentlyabout myself. So it was really
just changing my innerdialogue, which helped me build
my self-esteem, and alsostepping outside of my comfort
zone and challenging myself todo things that built my

(38:21):
confidence. Like, one of the,one of the things that I did
after my second, well, really,it was as, as my marriage was
kind of on its way out, mysecond marriage , um, I decided
I wanted to join a , a band. Iwas gonna join a classic rock
cover band because I had lovedto sing my whole life, but I
was kind of like a closetcloseted singer. Like, I didn't
perform in front of anybody. Iwas too insecure, I was too

(38:43):
embarrassed. But after thatsecond divorce, when I, you
know, I started kind of doingthat inner work, I was like,
it, new, new chapter, new me,right? I'm going for it. And so
I was looking online and Ifound a local band that was
looking for a lead vocalist,and I signed up for the
audition. And then the wholeway there, it was like, it was
like a 45 minute drive. I waslistening to this confidence

(39:05):
hypnosis app to try to psychmyself up, because this was so
outside of my comfort zone. Ilistened to that the whole way
I got there, I was shaking, Iwas sweating profusely. But I
remember telling myself, evenif this doesn't work out, I am
so proud of myself just forshowing up, because this is
like way, way outside ofanything I would normally do.

(39:27):
So I'm just proud of myselfthat I'm doing something that I
wouldn't normally do, and thatI'm gonna be proud of myself no
matter what happens. So I wentto the audition, I gave it my
all, and it wasn't great. Imean, looking back, I was too
nervous. I had no breathcontrol, but I actually got the
part, I, I ended up getting thepart. And then there , there I
was, I was lead vocalist for aclassic rock cover band. And it

(39:47):
was awesome. I had so much fun.
It was something that was justfor me. I, I was passionate
about it. I was excited, I waslooking forward to it. And then
it also opened up opportunitiesto meet like-minded people. I
was, I was meeting more peoplethat way. And even to this day,
I'm still in a band. It's, it'sa different band, but I still

(40:07):
sing it in a plastic rock coverband. And it's something that
I, I love so much. And I thinkthat's something that's so
important, is when you're inthat phase of finding your new
identity and coming, coming outof a divorce and figuring out
who you are, you are going tohave to do things that make you
uncomfortable a lot. You , youare going to have to set
boundaries that make youuncomfortable. You're going to

(40:28):
have to maybe go out to eat byyourself and get comfortable.
You're, you're gonna have toshow up at holidays alone.
You're gonna have to find newhobbies and creative outlets
that are just for you, becausethat's gonna help you figure
out who you are. Findfulfillment, build your self
confidence . So when you dothose things, when you take
that action and do things thatare outside of your comfort

(40:52):
zone, that's honestly where themagic happens. And that, that's
an example of what reallyhelped me start just building
my self-esteem and building myconfidence was I did the thing
that scared the out of me, andI survived. Right ? And so then
it was like, oh, well, if I cando that, well, I could do this.
And if I could do that, well,then I could do this.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
Mm-Hmm.
. And it, it , itgoes back to a little
conversation that even we werehaving earlier, which is, you
know, part of it is showing up, um, differently. You know?
And when you go through adivorce and you start to shift
friends, shift people that youhung out with, you know,

(41:33):
because it maybe, it never anyof it was really for you.
Right? You, and what we weretalking about earlier,
internally is that you mighthave to show up in a different
room. Like you might becontinuing to show up in a room
where they're like, Ew , youare horrible. Like, stop going
into that room. Yeah . Going

Speaker 2 (41:52):
Into

Speaker 1 (41:52):
Places where people are like, you're amazing. Yeah
, this

Speaker 2 (41:55):
Is

Speaker 1 (41:55):
Fabulous. You're a great singer. You're like,
thank you. I'm, but it, it,part of it is this
self-awareness, but part of itis also, I don't know if we
ever really cultivated what welove as opposed to what can I
love to make me likable, right?
Mm-Hmm. . And sowhen I started, and I know you

(42:17):
talk a lot about frequency and,and vibration and, and kind of
cultivating your self power ,if you will, and discovering
that and, and building it. Whenyou go into that, you don't
know what you like, right?
Because you're like, well, I'vejust liked what other people

(42:38):
around me did. Yeah . So itmeans experimenting, it means
going into other places. Soit's, it's, it's even bigger
than that. It's being it,because there's one thing I'll
ask you before we go into this,but do you know what vibration
or what emotion or energy ishigher than love from a

(43:00):
frequency standpoint?

Speaker 2 (43:01):
Gratitude.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
Mm-Hmm .
. Authenticity.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
Oh, authenticity.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
So the more you authentically show up, like who
you are,

Speaker 2 (43:14):
Mm-Hmm.
,

Speaker 1 (43:15):
The more you will vibrate higher and bring those
people who like those things,right? Yeah . I love to , well,
if you like musicals, but noone else did, no one's gonna
go, well go with people thatlike musicals. Yeah . Go

Speaker 2 (43:30):
Find

Speaker 1 (43:31):
A group that helps you. So what other ways?

Speaker 2 (43:34):
Yeah .

Speaker 1 (43:34):
You know, being authentic can create a high , a
different vibration. Beinglove, being gratitude, but
also, what are some of theother ways that you think, you
know, you can start tocultivate self-awareness.
'cause they don't have to bebig, and you are in control of
these things, but you have todo them regularly, right?

Speaker 2 (43:55):
Yes. Journaling is another really great tool. I
don't know if it , if anyonelistening has been in therapy,
but your therapist has probablytold you this too, .
I've been in therapy many timesin my life, and they're always
telling me to journal, becausethat , that does help cultivate
self-awareness. A lot of timeswhen you have that floating
around in your head, it'sharder to make sense of. Yeah .
So when you sit down and reallythink about it and get it out
and you see it on paper , um,you can kind of put those

(44:19):
puzzle pieces together or findpatterns or track your
progress. And so that's a greatway to cultivate
self-awareness. But you'restill right with that energy
piece. Um, I mean , you are theguardian of your own energy.
You have to pay attention tohow you feel, let your, let
your feelings kind of be yourcompass. And sometimes after a
divorce, being your authenticself does mean letting go of

(44:42):
relationships that maybe you'vehad a long time , um, but you
just felt obligated to maintainthem. Because while I've known
them for so long, and so Iguess this is just a
relationship I need to stay in.
But that is important whenyou're trying to figure out who
you are and you're doing thingsthat really are in alignment.
Meaning it is something thatyou're, you're naturally drawn
to. It's something that youhave this organic kind of ,

(45:09):
you, you wanna go, you wannaexplore something, you wanna ,
you're interested in somethingbecause everyone's different.
Everyone has differentinterests. Maybe I, I love to
sing, but somebody else reallywants to learn how to horseback
ride. Or there's somebody whoreally loves to knit or do
photography or origami orwhatever. There , if you have
that inclination, if you havethat desire or interest in

(45:29):
something that's in you for areason. And so when you follow
those things, it's opening upnew doors for you. And then you
are being more authenticallyyourself. You're finding things
that are in alignment, andyou're, you are opening up that
opportunity to meet like-mindedpeople. And so it's, again,
it's yourself taking thatuncomfortable action trying to
find yourself. And then that'show you can find cult . You can

(45:52):
cultivate new relationships.
And so part of that beinguncomfortable sometimes is
letting go of relationshipsthat aren't serving you
anymore. And one of the thingsthat I tell my clients is when,
when they're, they're talkingabout relationships that
they're struggling with, is youhave to ask yourself , this is
a really simple way to do this,is ask yourself, are they an
anchor or a balloon? Are theyraising me? Are they lifting me

(46:14):
up? Are they helping me rise?
Are they helping me grow? Arethey empowering me? Are they
supporting me? Are theyaccepting of who I am? Or are
they holding me down? Are theykeeping me back? Are they
dragging down my energy? Arethey, you know , energy
vampires? Really be mindful ofwhat kind of relationship you
have with people, and then makethe choice to protect your own

(46:36):
energy and not haverelationships with people who
are more anchors than balloons.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
Well, and I, and I think that in general, as you
see divorce as a change, and alot of people don't like the
change, you can rewrite thenarrative. You can say, I'm in
a better place now than I everwas, and it , it could be
different and not great, butit's in a better, you know,
it's gonna be better. Um, butthen also to be mindful about

(47:05):
what you consume in it , whatyou listen to, what you watch,
what you eat, you know, all ofthat plays into either
escalating the emotions ordeescalating the emotions. Yes
.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
Especially scrolling on social media. Oh yeah .
Because that slippery slope,everyone has their perfect ,
you know, their perfectlives all over the little
snippets on the internet . Butjust remember that a lot of
that's not real. And so if youfind , again, tune into your
energy. So if you find when youget off social media, you feel
worse, you feel like. 'causeyou're just comparing yourself
to people , um, then that'ssomething that you need to do

(47:42):
less of. Or unfollow the peoplethat make you feel like that
and follow people who empoweryou and motivate you and
inspire you. Um , and justremember that you never know
what's going on behind closeddoors. You'd be really
surprised how many people Iwork with whose closest friends
and family had no idea thatthey were on the precipice of
divorce. They all thought thatthey were great, and everything

(48:03):
was fine and dandy. Oh , youjust got , you guys just got
back from that vacation . Ijust saw all those pictures and
what happened. Right? So maybewhat we see on social looks
like everyone is puppies andrainbows, but you really don't
know what's going on. So bereally careful also about who
you're comparing yourself to.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
Yeah. And I, I think that people, you know, like I ,
um, there's an artist that I'vebeen listening to since you
brought up music. You maybelike music a little bit, but
there is an artist called SaintFinnan .

Speaker 2 (48:31):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
And he creates, like music that has like
affirmations, but it's reallygood music. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:39):
And

Speaker 1 (48:39):
Then the underlying things that are being said are
just things that would maybehelp change your thoughts if
you're, because then you startsinging the words. But it's
really like these powerfulaffirmations. And I think that
people don't understand thatenergy travels when you push,
when you put something into it.

(49:00):
Right. So if you put it intowriting and you write it down,
if you talk to somebody, oh, Ihave a great idea. You know,
oh, I wanna do better. I wannabe healthier. We'll talk about
being healthier. And thenpeople will, oh, I wanna be
healthier too. Let's go walk,let's go . You know, like,
you'll start to find it. Butwhat I find in divorce is that
people, as they go through it,they're like, this is horrible

(49:25):
and awful, and I'm gonna helppeople when I get out of here.
So maybe that's a good entreeto, like, how did you kind of
go through this process? Like,were you always a divorce
coach? Were you always, youknow, helping people?

Speaker 2 (49:43):
No . Yeah. , I always knew I wanted to help
people after I had gone throughall of the trauma I did in my
life. I knew that I, I, I mean,I was doing that anyway with
coworkers and with friends. Itjust always made me feel good
to try to help other people seethings in a different
perspective or give them somekind of tool. And so after my

(50:05):
second divorce, I had to get ajob that I hated because I
needed something that paid thebills. So I was working
full-time. Um, lockdownhappened. So I was
homeschooling my kid. I wasworking full-time. I was doing
all the cooking, all thecleaning, taking care of the
cats, doing, doing all of thethings. And I was in this job

(50:26):
that I really didn't, I wasn'tpassionate about. And it didn't
feel like it was in alignment.
And so that's when I kind ofcame into life coaching is, is
really what my first step was.
When I, the more I learnedabout it, the more I was just
like, oh my God, I was born todo this. I literally, my life
unfolded in order for me tostart doing this with people.

(50:48):
And when you start a a acoaching business, you have to
decide who you wanna help,because I couldn't just show up
and go life coach. I can helpeverybody do everything, you
know? So I had to think about,well, what do I know a lot
about? What have I experienceda lot in my life? What , what
do I know that I could sharewith people that can help them
and change their lives and givethem tools and give them new

(51:10):
perspectives? And it was, itwas divorce. It was because I
had gone through it twice. AndI, I know what it's like, I
know , uh, what it's like to bea mom to go through it. I know
that internal struggle. I, Iknow the fears and the
insecurities and, and I had alot of resources at that point
too. And so that's when Idecided that that's who I
wanted to help. Um, and it's,it's completely changed my

(51:31):
life. And that's really what Idid, is I , I took everything I
had gone through and I made itinto something good. And I love
stories like that. Like a lotof the people that inspire me,
who I see, the , that is whatthey did. Whether you're
talking about the big , whereOprah, Tony Robbins, you know,
Mel Robbins , I mean, any ofthose people, if you ask 'em to

(51:51):
tell you your story, it'ssimilar. They had gone through
some that they could haveeither decided they were a
victim of, or they decided totake control of their own lives
and they made changes. And thenthey took what they learned and
what they know. And now theygive that to other people to
empower others. And so, nomatter what you're going

(52:12):
through, you do have the powerto do that. You know , for
those of you listening,whatever it is, you can find
silver linings. You can findthe wisdom in it. You can, you
can figure out how this isactually beneficial to you. And
I know that sometimes that'sreally hard. And when you're in
the middle of the storm , itseems impossible. But challenge
yourself to do that, to findany silver linings. And you can

(52:36):
use that to propel you intoyour next chapter. And you can
use it to help other people.
And , and when you do that, Ifeel like that is just, it's
like epic. You know, when you,when you can take your pain and
transform it into a way to helpothers. I, I don't know what is
more gratifying than that.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
Yeah. I, I, I say it is , um, everything that
happens, I say, what is theblessing?

Speaker 2 (53:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
Like, I stubbed my toe. What , what is the
blessing? ? Oh, I, Ihad dropped my earring and now
I picked it up and I didn'tlose that diamond. You know? Or
Yes. Oh, I'm stuck in traffic.
Well, what is the blessing?
Well, yes , maybe I avoidedsomething. So when you can
start to look , and I thinkthat's getting, that's pretty
heavy into healing andself-awareness. Mm-Hmm .

(53:24):
if literally on adaily basis, the things that
are considered to be negative.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
Yes . You're

Speaker 1 (53:30):
Literally like, well, what's the blessing? Yes
.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
I just

Speaker 1 (53:34):
Filled my entire food on the ground.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
Yeah. What's

Speaker 1 (53:37):
The blessing that

Speaker 2 (53:38):
Reminds me? So there's this book that I read,
it's called A Happy Pocket Fullof Money. It's a wonderful
book.

Speaker 1 (53:43):
Okay .

Speaker 2 (53:44):
And it reminds me of this little excerpt in there
where he's talking about, youhave to be careful of what
you're labeling, good and bad.
'cause there's this story ofthis farmer whose horse ran
away, and the neighbor comesover and says, oh , I'm so
sorry. Your horse ran away.
That's bad news. And the farmersaid, well, who's to say what's
good or bad? So then a coupleof days later, his horse came

(54:06):
back and the horse brought allof his friends. So then he had
like 20 horses. And so then theneighbor came over and said,
oh, congratulations for yourgood fortune. And the farmer
said, well, who's to say what'sgood or bad? Then the farmer's
son tries to ride one of thewild horses and falls off and
breaks his leg. So then theneighbor says, I'm so sorry for
what happened to your son'sleg. And he says, well, who's

(54:26):
to say what's good or bad? Acouple of days later , um, the
military comes to recruit hisson to go off to war, but he
didn't go because he had abroken leg. And so that's just
an example of how maybe youthink something's bad, but in
the bigger scheme of things,the universe has got some
plans. And so you have to havethat trust that even though it

(54:48):
seems bad or uncomfortable,who's to say it's not actually
leading you in the direction ofwhere you really wanna go?
Mm-Hmm.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
. And that what you just said was
key. You have to have thetrust. Mm-Hmm .

Speaker 2 (54:59):
. And

Speaker 1 (55:00):
If your trust has been broken by all of the
relationships that you haveever been in either family by
leaving, or friends or lovedone, you know, like a re uh ,
serious relationship, you arestill in control of trusting
yourself.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
And I think that that is what it , it is the
harder thing it is. And then totrust yourself enough to say,
you know what, that's what isbest for me. That's what I
deserve, and I am going tocreate that or attract it. And
that's really what kind of, andyou are trying to do with your

(55:42):
company. Um, mindfully ready.
And let me just say one thingbefore we, everybody wants to
come and divorce, and they'relike, well, I'm hiring
attorneys and I'm hiringexperts and you know, I always
get involved and everybody getsinvolved. And then I , I bring
in like therapists,accountants, yeah . And all of
these people, and they're like,why do I need all of these

(56:04):
people? And I was like, becauseeverybody has a role in this
process, and if you alloweverybody to stay in their
role, your lawyer fights yourfight, your expert fights the
money, your psychologist oryour therapist kind of helps
you emotionally. But the coach,although everybody wants to
think, think it's like thisfluffy thing. There is so much

(56:27):
that goes on in the divorcethat you could be paying out
the wazoo to ask the wrongperson. It's the right
question. It's just the wrongperson. Whereas when you're a
coach and you understand theprocess, you are kind of the
sand beneath between thepebbles. Right. You're like

(56:49):
catching all of those questionsthat really don't have a good
legal or financial orsomething.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
But they're like the important people question like,
about their lives. So

Speaker 2 (57:00):
Yeah .

Speaker 1 (57:00):
Tell us how you kind of operate, how you support
people and, and what they wouldlook to you for in this
process.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
Yeah . So I , I help with the mental and emotional
side of things. There's like abusiness bucket with divorce
and then there's the mental andemotional, everything that
comes up. Guilt, shame,feelings of failure, low
self-esteem, anger, resentment.
How are you, what are you doingabout that stuff? How are you
getting yourself to feelbetter? How are you navigating
now co-parenting with somebodythat you can't stand to be

(57:31):
around? How do you get yourselfto a place where you feel
confident and you feel goodabout who you are? So these are
the things that, that I helppeople dive into so that they
can be really their bestselves. And I know that sounds
cliche, but you have to thinkabout it. I , if you're
struggling and if you know thatyou are not in a good place,

(57:54):
your kids are getting thatversion of you. Mm-Hmm .

Speaker 1 (57:57):
That ,

Speaker 2 (57:58):
So the more work and self-care you put into
yourself, then your kids aregetting the best of you, not
what's left of you.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
Mm-Hmm.
.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
And so I help, there's all kinds of things. I
mean, I, there's digitalresources. I, I have an online
course that's amazing. That'sspecifically to help you build
your self-esteem and, and knowyour worth. Again, there's
group coaching, privatecoaching, there's a monthly
membership where you can gettraining every single week on
different topics likeco-parenting, setting

(58:27):
boundaries, parentalalienation, negative self-talk.
Um, but just get the supportyou need. What whatever you're
going through, everyone hasblind spots, everyone. Because
when you're in it, it's reallyhard to see things objectively.
And so when you can get thesupport, even if it's joining a
free support group, sometimesjust gaining that fresh

(58:49):
perspective completely changesthe way you feel and the
choices that you make, whichthen gives you different
results.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
Mm-Hmm.
. Well, and, and Ithink that in the divorce
process, you have to start tobe your own advocate. And if
you, I'm just telling you likeI am heavy into litigation and
the litigation we do, like whenwe go to trial, it's 3, 4, 5, 7

(59:19):
day trials. Right. It's verycomplex stuff. But during this
process, all of the clientsalways have issues and they'll
be like, oh , attorney, oh,expert. I feel I'm just very
frustrated right now. And doyou know what everybody's gonna
say? We do not care. Right . Wedo care, but you're not paying
us to care about that. And theywill say that to you. They're

(59:41):
like, do you wanna pay 350,$500 an hour to ask me not
legal questions or notfinancial questions? Yeah. And,
and you know, and they willsay, go talk to your therapist
about this. Go. And what I willsay also is great if your
therapist understands divorce,absolutely great. But for

(01:00:03):
divorce, don't hire anaccountant. Don't hire anybody
who doesn't understand thatspace because it is the
twilight zone and it's got itsown rules.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Yes. And

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
If you don't play by the rules, you are gonna get
caught. And if you thinkanybody's going to emotionally
hold you through that process,that is incorrect. So in my
mind, even if you are hiring acoach and you are paying them,
that is for the advice for thatspecific thing. Like it comes
in and kind of helps thatpiece, or that's your frame of

(01:00:38):
reference to help understandwhat the other people are
doing. Right. Sometimes it'slike, I don't know what they're
all doing. And somebody elsewould be like, oh, well, oh ,
that's just a simple hearing.
No big deal. Don't worry aboutit. But they don't know. So it
ramps up anxiety, it ramps updepression, it ramps up all of

(01:00:59):
these things. So not onlyworking on yourself, but also
hiring the right team.

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Because for the most part, unless you have
exponential wealth, a divorceis going from a two member
household to a one memberhousehold in all capacities. It
typically is going to bedifferent in a traditionally
not blessed way. So you have tosay, well maybe I don't wanna

(01:01:28):
live like that anymore. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
Maybe

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
I want to let go of some of those things. And I
think that letting go of some ,like maybe I wanna have , I , I
tell people, oh, you have toleave the marital home. Don't
you wanna redecorate? Yes .

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
Don't

Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
You want it to be like you now, not

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
You

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
From whenever ago.
Right .

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
Yeah . Living in all those old

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
Memories . So what is the be best platform for
them to kind of find you on?
We've been scrolling throughsome of your, or should they
just reach out to you directly?
Like how does that work?

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
The , my link tree is probably the easiest because
that gives you access toeverything. If you wanna browse
the website, brows , any of theservices, follow me on social.
Everything is on there.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
Is there is a good, you know, like sometimes people
I think don't always know howto go about just hiring one,
you know, like your , you as acoach. Is it a good way to
start just like with a groupsetting or

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
Something?

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
Is that an easier way maybe if you are

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
Yeah. Or just hop on a clarity session with me where
, where we can just chatone-on-one on Zoom and talk
about what's going on. See, seeif, if this is something that
could help you. Um , because I,I certainly want you to get the
right support. It's not gonnado either of us any favor ,
favors, if, if what you'relooking for is not what I can
provide. Um, but I also have afree private support group that

(01:02:51):
you can join and that cansometimes give you that insight
as to what you need or, or whatyou're doing. Um, just talking
to people who have been throughit and who know, I think that's
so important. Divorce can feelso isolating. Um, and you know,
your friends and your family,they might have advice, but it
might not be the mostproductive a advice or the ,

(01:03:12):
the , the best advice, eventhough they might have their
heart's in the right place. But, um, unless you've been
through it, it's so hard tounderstand. And sometimes even
if you've been through it, youcould just be doing something
that's so different. Everymarriage is different, every
divorce is different. So Ithink it's just getting support
if you feel stuck or unsure ofwhat steps to move forward. Or

(01:03:33):
you feel like you're justcaught up in your emotions and
you don't know how to processit. Just getting support so
that you don't stay stuck.
Because if you don't, I meanthat's something that could
last decades and that wassomething for me. I mean, I
didn't do anything I wassupposed to do after my first
divorce and that's how I woundup with the second one . So you
wanna make sure that you'redoing the right thing so that

(01:03:54):
you can empower yourself andenjoy the rest of your life. I
mean, divorce, yes, it's anending of sorts, but it really
is also a beginning and it's,it's a chance to have a fresh
start so that you can createthe life that you really want.
Mm-Hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
. And you gotta find someplace that
resonates with you. So if theperson, you know, typically
this is gonna be a person thatyou're gonna talk to for a
little bit of time, butobviously, you know, working
with you, you can do one call,you can do like test the
waters, things like that. Yeah. Because it's sort of like at
the beginning sometimes there'snot a lot going on, right.

(01:04:29):
You're just more anxious aboutit. And then as things ramp up,
that's not really the time thatyou wanna go and find and be
like interviewing somebody whoyou wanna hire. You kind of
wanna get that process going.
So it , it's nice to know thatthey can have a process to
reach out to you Mm-Hmm .
and kind offigure out where to go from
there or take baby stepsbecause , um, I think that

(01:04:51):
people don't understand theimportance of the coach until
it's like, I need themtomorrow. And that's not
necessarily easy in this dayand time. So I think do your
research, you know, reach outeven if it's not you or me, you
know, to reach out to somebodyin your area that's gonna give
you some assistance. Yeah. So,but thank you Leah . This is

(01:05:13):
amazing and I thank you

Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
For having me.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
I think we should come back and talk about a
little bit more of some of the,the traumas that we have to,
because people don't wanna talkabout these, but I think one
thing that you and I might knowis like once you heal from some
of them, you can kind of talkto them about them a little bit
easier.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
Um, so, you know, 'cause we have a lot of , all
of us, especially women, have alot of consistencies that, you
know, we can start to, to healfrom. So I appreciate your
contribution , uh, to the worldand uh, we'll hope to see you
again. Thank

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
You. Thank you .