January 16, 2024 • 43 mins
Dr. Martin Pall was a professor of biochemistry and basic medical sciences at Washington State University (WSU). During his tenure, he researched and published numerous articles on Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. In 2008, he retired from his teaching position to concentrate his time researching the effect multiple chemical sensitivity and low-intensity microwave frequency electromagnetic fields (MWV-EMF) have on the human body.He has been a critic of the expansion of 5G mobile phone networks and the use of wireless technology generally, believing the technology has negative consequences for human health.
For Current and Previous Podcast Episodes, Show Notes, and Videos go to www.MedicalTruthPodcast.com
You can also find the Medical Truth Podcast on Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Rumble, and Substack, as well as all the major podcast platforms such as Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google Podcast, Amazon Music, iHeart, and Podchaser
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Get ready to hear the truth, thewhole truth, and nothing but the
truth about the United Stateshealthcare system with your host
of the medical truth podcast,James Egidio.
James Egidio (00:17):
Hi, I'm James Egidio, welcome to the medical
truth podcast.
My guest was a professor ofbiochemistry in basic medical
sciences at Washington stateuniversity.
During his tenure, he researchedand published numerous articles
on chronic fatigue syndrome.
In 2008, he retired from histeaching position to concentrate
(00:40):
his time, researching theeffects of multiple chemical
sensitivity, low-intensitymicrowave frequency and
electromagnetic fields and theireffects on the human body.
He has been a critic of theexpansion of 5g mobile phone
networks and the use of wirelesstechnology.
Generally believing thetechnology has negative
(01:02):
consequences for human health.
It is an honor and a pleasure tohave on the medical truth
podcast.
My guest.
Dr.
Martin Powell.
Dr.
Pall, welcome to the MedicalTruth Podcast.
How are you doing today?
Doing great, thanks.
Great.
For the viewers and listeners ofthe Medical Truth Podcast, a
little bit about who you are andwhat you do.
Dr. Martin Pall (01:24):
Okay, so I'm Martin Pall.
I got my PhD at Caltech.
I got my bachelor's degree,actually, in physics at Johns
Hopkins.
Thinking I'd be a pre med andthen I changed my mind.
Which is interesting.
Anyway, both the physics and thebiology and the biochemistry are
all turned out to be veryrelevant to our understanding of
(01:48):
EMF's.
And which has been my maininterest for about 11 years now.
And all of that work's been donesince I quote unquote retired
from the university.
So I've got now, what, 14 papersout on EMSF's.
And three of them have been veryhighly cited.
(02:09):
So they're, they've been highly,widely recognized in the
scientific literature.
So that even though I'm in asense a newbie on this, at this
stage in my life.
It's had quite a bit of impact,and it's mainly been focused on
how EMS work on the cells in thebody because that's the real
(02:29):
essential key to
James Egidio (02:32):
understanding what's going on.
EMFs in the in the media.
And it's becoming a subject thatgets shied away a lot by the
media for some reason oranother.
Explain to the viewers andlisteners, what is
electromagnetic frequencies andwhere are they found?
Dr. Martin Pall (02:55):
Let me just say first of all, that there is a
very big difference betweenelectronically generated EMFs,
which is what we're reallyconcerned about here.
And most naturally in theenvironment.
So electronically generatedEMF's are produced by electric
(03:17):
current, and it was shown backin 1831 by Michael Faraday, the
great British physicist of thatera, that when you have an
electric current, it generatesthis electromagnetic field
around it.
And and so because of that, andthis was later shown the these
(03:38):
electronically generated EMF'sare coherent.
That is, they behave as a singleobject that has a particular
frequency, a particular vectordirection, a particular polarity
and phase.
And for all of those reasons,these electronically generated
EMF's produce very powerfulelectric forces and magnetic
(04:02):
forces that can then impact theelectric charges in our body.
Most natural EMFs, in contrast,are incoherent.
They're made up of astronomicalnumbers of photons going off in
various directions, with variouspolarities and frequencies in
vector directions.
(04:23):
And for that reason, they onlyproduce miniscule forces.
And we don't have to worry aboutmost natural EMFs, but we do
have to worry about theelectronically generated EMFs.
And what's tragic about this isthat the safety guidelines that
have been generated by theindustry and have been adopted
(04:43):
by the regulatory agencies Onlywork for these incoherent
natural EMF's.
They don't work for theelectronically generated EMF's
that the industry is using forwireless communication.
So we're in this absolutelybizarre situation where you know
(05:05):
where everything that's supposedto be protecting us from it
completely bugged
James Egidio (05:10):
us.
Yeah.
You made a comment about thattoo, right here where it says
putting in tens of millions of5G antennas.
Without a single biological testof safety has got to be about
the stupidest idea anyone hashad in the history of the world.
And of course, this was a quoteby you some time ago.
And so let's discuss that alittle bit about this whole
(05:35):
thing with the 5g and the 5gtowers and EMFs.
Dr. Martin Pall (05:40):
Okay.
Let me just say, first of all,that.
Wireless communicationcommunicates by a pulse
modulation.
Okay, so it has an underlyingfrequency.
That's going up and down.
And then the intensity of it ismodulated over time.
(06:01):
So you have some really hugeintensities, and you have some
modest ones, and so forth, allinterspersed with each other.
And it's that pattern thatcarries the information.
Now, the only exception to thatwe're commonly exposed to is FM
radio, where they use frequencymodulation rather than intensity
modulation.
But everything else, we havethese huge changes, we have
(06:25):
these pulses.
And when you go from 2G to 3G,you have huge increases in
pulsation.
Why?
It's because that thencommunicates more information.
This is, by the way, it's aslight oversimplification.
I just want to point that out,but basically it's true.
You go from 3G to 4G, you gethuge increases in pulsations.
(06:47):
And you go from 4G to 5G, youget huge increases in
pulsations.
Whenever you have smarterdevices, they are smarter
because they pulse much more.
Now there are many differentreview articles that have
reviewed the literature thathave shown that the more these
things pulse.
In almost all cases, the biggerthe biological effect so that a
(07:12):
non pulse EMF of a particularaverage intensity produces
perhaps none or perhaps modesteffect, whereas you take the
same average intensity, but youhave these, some of these things
that are highly pulsed and theeffects are much, much greater.
(07:32):
And now I think we, we have anunderstanding of why they are.
But the fact is that empiricallyit's been shown that they are,
and yet the safety guidelinescompletely ignore this stuff.
They are based entirely onaverage intensity.
And so they simply do notpredict biological effects, and
(07:53):
they do not predict safety.
So when you go to 5G, The wholeidea of 5G was again to have a
huge increase in the amount ofcommunication, something like 20
fold over 4G.
And and in order to do that,they went to higher frequencies.
Why?
Because the more higher thefrequencies, the higher, the
(08:15):
more pulsations you'd get.
And we go to higher frequenciesand higher pulsations and
possibly higher maximumpulsations.
We don't know that for certain,but that's certainly a
possibility.
They don't and the industrydoesn't pay any attention to
these things.
They don't pay any attention tothe biological effects of these
(08:35):
things.
And so that's where we are.
And so 5G is not different in anentirely different kind of thing
than 4G and 3G and 2G.
It's just that every time you goto higher and higher pulsations,
you're taking tremendous risks.
And and that's and let me tellyou, I think there's some recent
(08:58):
studies that I've, some of themI've just and that, that show
how these pulsations work andwhy they, why, so it's not
mysterious anymore, how theywork and it was clear they did
work, but I think we know a lotbetter how they work.
James Egidio (09:15):
Yeah, I know they're talking about even 6g
and quantum computing and reallyrevving up the like you say, the
pulsations, what's the potentialharm with even the going into 6g
and possibly seven or evenwhatever they have planned in
the future.
It sounds like from what you'resaying is that the more they
(09:37):
ratchet up the is it thegigahertz power and pulsation?
The more damage it couldpotentially do.
Correct?
Dr. Martin Pall (09:44):
I don't think we're going to survive very
long.
You don't say that.
I've made some predictions inthe past, which I think were
unduly pessimistic because it isin fact quite.
(10:07):
Difficult to make predictionsabout how EFS's, how they're
going to impact us and how theirimpact.
will interact with other EMF'sthat are already in existence.
Things are very complex, andthey are not easy to predict.
But we are seeing things with 5Gwhere certainly people who are
(10:30):
near the 5G antennae, and there,there are going to be huge
numbers of them, of course.
over time, they are being veryheavily impacted and they're
being heavily impacted in waysthat are not completely
different from what other EMSdo, but they are just more
severe and more rapid in termsof their effects.
(10:50):
I, I think I believe there areseven different so let me just.
Lemme just backtrack a minutehere.
Sure.
Back in, in 19, I think it was72 or 73, there was a large
review articles published as abook on the impacts of these
(11:12):
EMFs.
Of course, they were looking atdifferent EMFs then on the
histology, on the cellularstructure of rodents and what
they found was that thedifferent tissues were
differently impacted, but thethree most, and they were all
impacted, it wasn't that, someof them don't get, have any
impacts at all, but the mostsevere impacts were on the
(11:36):
nervous system, including thebrain followed by the heart and
the chest, and we are seeing, inhuman populations, huge impacts
on all these things.
Which that doesn't prove thatthose are caused by EMF's, but
it certainly raises a giganticred flag when these effects that
(11:57):
we're seeing in humanpopulations, the timing of them
corresponds well to all of thenew EMF's that are being
introduced since around 1998 andso forth.
We keep introducing new ones andall this stuff is going up in
human populations.
And yet, we're not payingattention to it.
(12:18):
And there, there are effects onmale fertility.
There are also effects, by theway, on female fertility.
And but female fertility isharder to study.
There are effects on the heart,and I can talk about those if
you want.
And there are, I believe thereare probably seven different
ways in which EMF's impacts.
(12:42):
the brain.
I've published on four of those.
But you can't do everything.
James Egidio (12:48):
Yeah, let me ask you.
So what?
What are the actual?
Because, you hear 5G your hearEMF's.
What are the actual devices thatare putting out these pulsations
that are having a biologicaleffect on humans, what are these
devices specifically?
Dr. Martin Pall (13:05):
Okay so with, obviously with 5G and other cell
phone systems.
Huh.
Have the knitting antennae.
Which which put out pulse EMF'sand then there's a phone.
And so the newer phones, Ithink, have something like seven
different antennae on them.
And so they're, and they areemitting not only when you're
(13:29):
making a phone call or receivingone, but they emit all the time
because they're always searchingfor the nearest cell phone
antenna.
And so they're putting out, eMSall the time.
And that's and let me just saythere is published evidence that
where people carry their cellphone influences what kind of
(13:50):
effect you get.
So You know so these are thingsthat are going on.
Let me just say something elseabout, about cell phones,
because the industry claimsthose cell phones can't do
anything.
It's just nonsense.
There are a number of studiesthat have shown that the side of
your head that you carry yourcell phone, whichever cell, is
(14:14):
there, there are changes thatare going on, including cancer,
including headaches, includingDNA attack on the DNA of the
cell that occur on one side ofthe head, not the other
preferentially.
Now, it doesn't mean they don'toccur at all on the other side,
but they occur higher on theside that people use this elbow.
(14:36):
Now that is very strong evidencefor something.
And, when you bring this up tothe industry, they say, Oh, but
these things started too early.
And you know what?
They did.
What does that tell you?
It tells you that what, thatthat part of those phones do the
same thing and they came inearlier.
(14:56):
Yeah.
She makes all these denials andyet they don't work.
And there are effects, by theway, on, on a number of other
things, because I can't rememberall of them.
One of them is it affects thethe blood circulation in the
brain.
And produces tinnitus on oneside of the head, preferentially
and there are two or threeothers, but I can't remember
(15:18):
what they are.
Anyway yeah.
James Egidio (15:21):
What are some of the bio, biological, go ahead.
About
Dr. Martin Pall (15:24):
other kinds of devices.
James Egidio (15:26):
Yeah, what are some of the biological dangers
to 5G, because I know you wrotea couple papers, I know one
paper in particular you wrote.
This one here, microwavefrequency, electromagnetic
fields produce widespreadneuropsychiatric effects,
including depression.
So that's a paper that youwrote, and what were your
findings on that?
Dr. Martin Pall (15:46):
Okay, so what, this was a review article where
I looked at various kinds ofthings, and What I did, I
various kinds of radiationproducing these various, and I
divided them up into differenttypes and it was only when I had
five or more papers reporting aparticular thing that I
(16:09):
considered that to beestablished.
And so there were a lot ofthings and they included, I
can't sleep, tired all the time,I'm depressed, I can't
concentrate, my memory doesn'twork the I've got headaches
there, there are at least threeor four others that I can't
remember right now.
(16:30):
They, so all the things thatpeople are complaining about
basically are things that weknow are caused by EMF exposure.
Based on the, on their impact onthe brain.
Now let me just say, I'm not theonly one that published a paper
of this sort.
The paper I published I thinkWas was wider and it also talked
about mechanisms and there areat least 10 other papers that
(16:54):
have published somewhat similareffects.
Some of them going all the wayback, the earliest one was
published back in 1955.
So this stuff is not is not new.
And the One of the interestingthing is that when there were
three studies which, whichstudied occupational exposures.
So this was at a time when therewas essentially no exposure in
(17:18):
the general population.
So people in certainoccupations, such as or we're
seeing these effects and whatwas shown in these three studies
was they got worse and worsewith time.
Yeah.
Over time, and something thatmay might have only modest
(17:38):
effects in a couple of years,and as I say, they were looking
at different exposures than whatwe have, some of ours, so much
more rapidly the effects on 5G,by the way, for people who are
exposed to it, there's there,there are three different case
studies that have been publishednow by Dr.
Leonard Cardell and a colleaguein Sweden.
(18:01):
And they each show that you seewidespread, psychiatric
dementia, they occur veryrapidly, extremely rapidly from
the 5G.
And if you take these people outright away.
from these 5G exposures, putthem in a low EMF environment,
(18:22):
they go away.
The causation is clear fromthose findings, and and yet,
we're still doing nothing aboutit.
And now, there are also cardiaceffects that are produced.
And there are EHS effects, soelectromagnetic hypersensitivity
is another issue which has beendiscussed and documented in the
(18:46):
literature.
Again, the industry claims itdoesn't exist, but there's very
good evidence in the literaturethat's not true, that it does
exist.
It's still uncertain how commonit is, and there is no real
understanding in the literatureabout mechanism.
I've published that that EHSinvolves the hypersensitivity of
(19:13):
the main targets of the EMS.
It's in the voltage gatedcalcium channel.
The evidence for that is, can bequestioned.
Let me just say I believe it'sgood, but I think you can argue
that there, there's, it's notdefinitive.
But anyway, but that'll, I guessI'll leave it at that.
Yeah, where else?
(19:34):
What else?
James Egidio (19:35):
I wanted to get down to some of the biological
dangers to this 5G because Iknow when we were speaking off
the episode, you mentioned thatat the cellular, there's a
multitude of things that occurwhen we expose ourselves to 5g,
because I think a lot of peopletake it for granted, when
they're using a phone it's theconvenience factor.
(19:56):
I think we, we spoke about thatas well.
This convenience factor ofeverybody's attitude is someone,
you got to die at some point andyou're going to, you're going to
get sick at some point.
But I don't think people realizethe seriousness of these, this
5G rollout and these EMFs,correct?
(20:17):
They're underestimating them, itsounds like.
Dr. Martin Pall (20:20):
Yes, but it's also true for 4G and 3G.
And smart meters and and all theother exposures we have radar,
we put out self-driving carswith radar.
So we have radar all over theplace that they go ahead and do
all this stuff.
And and that, that has impactthey all have impact and none of
(20:43):
them are I guess I shouldn't goquite that far, but pretty close
to none of them of these majorexposures and things that are
benign.
There are, by the way, in thisfigure, you've got up here.
Let's talk about this figurebecause it will help in terms of
discussing those things
James Egidio (21:01):
that would be right.
Absolutely.
Yep.
So we have
Dr. Martin Pall (21:06):
a, excuse me, a whole series of of EMF, and they
range all the way frommillimeter waves, which are used
for 5G.
Through microwaves and and radiofrequencies and intermediate
frequencies, extremely lowfrequency, including 50 and 60
hertz in our power wiring, andeven static electric fields and
(21:29):
static magnetic fields.
And there's another set of EMFs,which are nanosecond pulses,
very rapid pulses.
All of those work by activatingthese VGTPs, these voltage gated
calcium channels.
And the way we know that is thatwe can use an inhibitor that
(21:53):
inhibits those VGCCs.
And we can block most of theeffects of the EMF's.
And that's been shown in manydifferent experimental studies.
The first paper I published onthis was actually the first
paper I published on EMF's waspublished in 2013, and it had 24
(22:14):
different studies where it wasshown that the the VGCC's
calcium channel blockers couldblock effect or at least greatly
lower the effect for these.
And since then I've publishedon, I don't know, six or seven
others, and they're and sothey're, and there's still
others I haven't published on.
So there's a large literature onthis acting in that way.
(22:36):
The first thing that happensthen when you have EGCC
activation is that you getincreases in intracellular
calcium.
So that ca two plus I isintracellular calcium and that
then produces essentially allthe effects that are diagrammed
here.
And a lot of the effects gothrough excessive calcium
(22:57):
signaling.
So calcium signaling in thecells of our bodies, and in fact
the cells of all eukaryoticorganisms, including plants and
fungi and so forth, is a veryimportant thing.
So if you get too much calciumin the cell, it produces too
much calcium signaling, orinappropriate calcium signaling.
(23:19):
That'll producepathophysiological effects.
Then there are several othereffects that are produced.
They're also actually producedthrough calcium signaling,
although it's not shown on this.
diagram here, but there's athere's a pathway by which you
get increases in nitric oxideand superoxide.
And they react with each otherto form peroxide nitrate.
(23:43):
Peroxide nitrate is a verypotent oxidant.
It breaks down to form highlyreactive free radicals.
So if you're looking down atthat line going from peroxide
nitrate towards the lower rightcorner you get highly reactive
free radicals, you get oxidativestress, you get elevation in NF
kappa B, and you getinflammation.
(24:06):
Now those things are involved inessentially all chronic disease,
almost all chronic disease.
So that's a big deal.
And and so you get thatphysiological effect as a
consequence of that.
You also get increases in nitricoxide.
(24:27):
Which I already well, I guess Ialready mentioned that and
nitric oxide signaling And thethere is a pathway for the
producing therapeutic from EMF'sand that goes through increases
in nitric oxide and you getcyclic GMP and 9HP and Nrf2 and
(24:50):
all this stuff that I havediagrams in there along the the
upper right part of the diagramhere and you get therapeutic
effects.
Now, what's the differencebetween the conditions that you
get therapeutic effects and youget the two main categories of
life you can affect?
is basically how big theintracellular calcium is.
(25:12):
If you have modest increases inintracellular calcium, you get
you can get predominantlytherapeutic effects.
If you have larger increases,then you get predominantly the
pathophysiological effects.
It's complicated.
I'm not saying it's simple.
It's not.
But I think we have a goodunderstanding of what is going
(25:35):
on here.
Now there's one other thing, andI've published on this.
I have a paper on Alzheimer'scausation by EMF's.
And in there, I showed that Thetherapeutic pathway and the
peroxy nitrate pathway eachinhibits the other via multiple
mechanisms.
And so what that means is that,you can have one condition that
(26:01):
gives you, one level ofintracellular calcium and you
get, and you have, a predominanttherapeutic effect, you get
another condition.
maybe even just slightly higherintracellular calcium, you can
get all kinds of tests, which inturn will suppress the
therapeutic effect.
Anyway, okay.
So there's a, and then there'sthe fourth pathway on the top.
(26:23):
I don't know whether you want meto talk about that or not.
James Egidio (26:26):
Yeah, that's fine.
It, like I said, it seems likeit's a cascading effect and it's
it's opening up a Pandora's boxfor a lot of, sounds like a lot
of health issues.
This whole thing with 5g
Dr. Martin Pall (26:38):
and I believe that.
When you look at the things thatwe have seen changing over the
last 25 years, or we've seenmajor changes over the last 25
years, I believe that you canmake an argument that EMF's have
(27:03):
an important role in everysingle one of us.
Now, you can question that, andI'm not saying that my judgment
is necessarily irrefutable.
And I'm not saying that therearen't other things that might
be involved, but but when youhave a single thing which is
being universally ignored interms of its biological effects
(27:27):
and its effects on the humanbody and on other organisms, and
yet may be generating all kindsof negative effects.
We're in very deep trouble andI, I can't so I think that
almost everything we see in oursociety and know where we
scratch our heads and say howcan this be, how can this be,
(27:51):
how, why is it we're seeingthis?
Why are, why is it and everytime people are saying it's
caused by this sex And that maybe true, but it may not be a
complete explanation.
And in some cases,
James Egidio (28:06):
yeah there's, I know there's wide speculation
that there's a tie between thechem trails.
I know we talked about thisbefore and I know it's not your
expertise, but there's aspeculation that.
And the sentiment out there thatthere's a tie between these chem
trails that are out up in theair that are spray, they're
(28:26):
spraying in the air.
And I've done a little bit ofresearch on that.
The gentleman that talks aboutthat a lot and has done
extensive research on that isDane Wigington.
He's actually even did adocumentary on it.
That talks about, metals and howthey're tied, the metals that
are in the chem trails, thealuminum oxide and the barium
(28:49):
oxide because they're electro,they attract electromagnetic
waves, but that's all part,that's all part of the 5G as
well.
Let me
Dr. Martin Pall (29:02):
say something about chemicals, because I've
also worked on chemical toxicityin the context of multiple
chemical sensitivity, which is acondition that's quite similar
to electromagnetichypersensitivity.
There are quite a number ofchemicals that also produce
(29:24):
increases in intracellularcalcium.
Most of those, but not all ofthem, act by increases in the
NMDA receptor activity.
And when the NMDA receptors areactivated, they also open up a
channel that allows calcium toflow in the cell.
(29:44):
The predominant effects producedthrough that mechanism are are
are free to the excessiveintracellular calcium.
Now that doesn't so you get, sofor example, when people talk
about excitotoxins in the brain,they're talking about excessive
(30:04):
intracellular calcium.
So there are a lot of chemicalsthat act that way.
Aluminum, interestingly, alsoraises intracellular calcium,
but it does it by a differentmechanism.
And so there may be connectionsthere as well.
And I think that excessiveintracellular calcium is
(30:29):
absolutely key.
Variable in, many differenttoxic.
James Egidio (30:36):
Yeah.
It just seems like a lot of theresearch that's been done in a
lot of the rollout with 5g andthese vaccines and these chem
trails all have some kind ofelectromagnetic metal that is
tied into all this together.
It's hard for me to believe thatit's not, and that they haven't
advanced far enough.
(30:56):
To where they want to plughumans in to these computers,
almost like a, almost wifimachines, cyborgs.
I know it sounds like, a lot ofpeople.
So that's a conspiracy theory,but I don't think so.
I think there's been a lot ofresearch.
I did a little bit of researchon, I think we mentioned this,
or I mentioned this to you isquantum computers and quantum
(31:19):
tattoos, and this was a Dr.
McHugh out of Rice university inTexas.
Who is doing research on quantumtattoos, which is tied into
quantum computing.
And it went back to vaccinepassports and vaccine for
vaccine for vaccines.
I think a lot of this stuff isall tied in this 5g and this
(31:41):
advancement in 5g technology,along with a lot of these metals
that you're talking about, orthat
Dr. Martin Pall (31:49):
Mercury can also.
increase the the NMDA receptoractivity and lead probably can
do it as well.
I, but what I'm saying here isthe following that, that when
you have chemicals actingthrough excessive intercellular
(32:10):
calcium and EMFs also acting viaexcessive intercellular calcium.
They can biologically interact,but they don't have to interact
in terms of basic, theirindividual mechanism.
They may be interacting justbecause of a similar biology
rather than rather than say oneacting to the EMF's or EMF's
(32:32):
acting to the chemicals, etc.
It's anyway,
James Egidio (32:38):
yeah.
So what are some of the, for thelisteners and viewers of the
medical truth podcast, what aresome of the safeguards or
precautions that someone cantake to minimize the exposure to
EMFs and 5G?
Dr. Martin Pall (32:53):
Let me just say, first of all, it's getting
harder and harder to do it.
And that's, that's a hugeproblem.
There are shielding materialsthat you can use to help protect
your body from from theradiation.
And they come in differenttypes, like there are paints you
can get that you can paint onyour walls that act as shielding
(33:14):
material.
There are, they basically, atthis point, come in two
different types.
There are paints that havegraphite in them, so they're
black.
And the graphite fibersbasically act as the shielding
material.
There are also paints that havelittle metal little flecks of
metal in them, and so the metalacts, again, as a shielding
(33:38):
material.
You can get clothes that areshielded, where they have little
metal fibers off of silver, butnot always.
And in the clothes.
And and they typically have tobe clean using a special
detergent rather than the usualway because they lose their
(33:59):
shielding properties.
It's my opinion that shieldingworks to a great extent, not by
Absorbing the EMF's, althoughthey do that, but by causing the
EMSF'sto lose their coherence.
So I mentioned before theimportance of the coherence of
(34:21):
the electronically generatedEMF's and it's the coherence
that makes them have muchstronger electric and produce
much stronger electric andmagnetic forces, which can then
impact our bodies.
And the The main target, and Ihaven't said what that is yet, I
(34:41):
think, so what am I saying?
The main target is a structurecalled the voltage sensor, which
controls the voltage gatedcalcium channels, but also other
voltage gated.
It turns out that the calciumchannels are the most important
because of the importance ofcalcium.
But they all are activated andall these channels that are
(35:05):
controlled by the same kind ofmolar sensor are activated.
And and so the voltage sensorhas something like 20 different
charges that are important incontrolling the response of the
the of the channel to electricalforces.
And and it's designed to behighly sensitive to changes in
(35:27):
these electrical forces.
And so it's that's the way youget the activation, I believe
it's a direct activation by theelectric forces on the charges
of the components of thecircuit.
That's and let me just saysomething about this, because,
when I talk about these thingssome of you may say do I really
(35:47):
need to know that?
And in one sense, the answer isno, you don't need to know that.
But on the other hand, becausebiology, including medicine, is
so stunningly complex thatpeople can generate all kinds of
hypotheses about what's goingon.
And most of the time, we don'thave the foggiest idea whether
(36:07):
they're right or wrong.
And what you need and what youalways need when you look at
biology and medicine is you needsome information about basic
mechanisms that are involved.
And when you have thatinformation, then you can say,
okay, this hypothesis makessense.
(36:28):
This one makes no sense at all.
And you can say it with a highdegree of certainty.
When you don't have that, thenyou're in deep trouble.
And that's why I spend a lot oftime looking at fundamental
mechanisms.
Because you really need to knowthose in order to, in order to
get to your medical proof.
(36:53):
Let
James Egidio (36:57):
me ask you, getting back to my question
about safeguards andprecautions.
It's doing something as simpleas putting let's say some
aluminum foil around yourwireless router and modem.
Would that help deflect some ofthe radiation that comes off
that router or modem?
Dr. Martin Pall (37:13):
Yeah, but of course, if you're using a
wireless router, then you needto get, you need to have the
EMF's in order to, in order forit to work, but you can
certainly, if you're.
In a different location thanwhere your device is that's one
thing, but if you're in the samelocation, then, you need to
(37:35):
have, you need to have thoseEMF's.
Let me just say I use a a wiredconnection for all of my
internet work, except on rareoccasions when I'm in traveling
and I can't do that.
And.
You can buy I'm sorry, I don'tknow what to call it.
You can buy cable modems whichdon't produce any Wi Fi and only
(38:01):
allow you to connect up with a awired connection.
You can use the wiredconnections with with other
kinds of modems and get thewireless turned off.
You have to also turn off the WiFi on your computer.
Yeah, part of the problem isthat people use things like some
(38:22):
of the tablets where where theWi Fi is turned on all the time.
Yeah.
So you don't want to use thosethings.
And so those are all things thatcan be done.
Let me, let's talk about a fewother things.
You telephone and those things,a lot of this stuff is very
(38:53):
poorly designed.
And for example the bases, thebase station on these for these
wireless telephones is in almostall cases irradiating 24 hours a
day, seven days a week.
The only time it needs toirradiate is when you're
receiving or placing a telephonecall.
(39:16):
Yeah.
So that makes absolutely nosense.
It's crazy, but that's thesituation.
I believe in Europe you can getsome phones that are actually
better than that, but they'reonly a specific type.
In the U.
S.
I don't think you can get themat all.
Yeah.
This is really outrageous and itis, and it's stupid.
(39:39):
But in addition to that most ofthese wireless telephones are
designed to be able to use 400feet away from the base.
How often do you need it?
400 feet away from the base.
James Egidio (39:58):
Yeah.
Almost never.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The TV, the televisions though,too, today they're all working
off of wireless as well.
And then when you have a,several televisions in the house
in different rooms and you'restreaming and it's all done
wireless, then now you're alsoadding this new technology,
which has been around for awhile now.
(40:19):
Internet of things, which isyour.
Refrigerator these wirelessdevices that these Apple watches
all these things are all, you'rejust bathing yourself in these
waves.
These 5g waves and these wifiwaves.
But
Dr. Martin Pall (40:36):
let me say something about that.
The I criticize them for notdoing biological safety testing
on 5g.
But in another sense, it'simpossible to do that.
Why do I say that?
Because when you have a 5Gsystem, and you've got
relatively few things attachedto it that are using 5G, then
(41:00):
the effects are going to be verydifferent from when you've got,
10, 15,100 more times asdevices.
Connected to it, right?
When you talk about connectingthis to the internet of things.
That's exactly what you'retalking about gigantic increases
in numbers, right?
So in a sense, it's impossibleto do actually by the face to
(41:23):
face But the fact is they don'teven do the basic stuff that you
know that you think That anybodywould do before you put this
stuff out And that tells yousomething.
It tells you they know thesethings are unsafe.
James Egidio (41:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I always said it.
I think the Amish were way aheadof their days during their time.
They didn't have all this stuff.
They're not tied to theseelectronic toys that we're all
probably killing ourselves with.
I
Dr. Martin Pall (41:54):
think, I think that there are a lot of these
technologies.
We can use without theseexposures.
We can do them wired.
The only thing that cannot bedone wired is cell phones.
But even cell phones could bedesigned so they were much safer
than they are.
(42:16):
And so the whole thing is just,it's just it's truly outrageous
what's going on.
It is.
James Egidio (42:23):
Dr.
Martin Pall, thank you so muchfor your time on the Medical
Truth Podcast.
I'd like to get you on again.
I know you also have done someresearch on chronic fatigue
syndrome and I'd like to maybeget you back on and we can talk
about that as well and some ofthe other findings that you have
discovered.
Okay.
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate your time onthe Medical Truth Podcast.
(42:44):
It's been an honor.
Thanks.
All right.
Thanks for listening to themedical truth podcast for the
latest episode, go to www.
medicaltruthpodcast.
com.
You can also find the medicaltruth podcast on rumble YouTube,
as well as the major podcastplatforms like apple podcast,
(43:06):
Spotify, substack, and I heart.
Get ready to hear the truth, thewhole truth, and nothing but the
truth about the United Stateshealthcare system with your host
of the medical truth podcast,James Egidio.
James Egidio (00:17):
Hi, I'm James Egidio, welcome to the medical
truth podcast.
My guest was a professor ofbiochemistry in basic medical
sciences at Washington stateuniversity.
During his tenure, he researchedand published numerous articles
on chronic fatigue syndrome.
In 2008, he retired from histeaching position to concentrate
(00:40):
his time, researching theeffects of multiple chemical
sensitivity, low-intensitymicrowave frequency and
electromagnetic fields and theireffects on the human body.
He has been a critic of theexpansion of 5g mobile phone
networks and the use of wirelesstechnology.
Generally believing thetechnology has negative
(01:02):
consequences for human health.
It is an honor and a pleasure tohave on the medical truth
podcast.
My guest.
Dr.
Martin Powell.
Dr.
Pall, welcome to the MedicalTruth Podcast.
How are you doing today?
Doing great, thanks.
Great.
For the viewers and listeners ofthe Medical Truth Podcast, a
little bit about who you are andwhat you do.
Dr. Martin Pall (01:24):
Okay, so I'm Martin Pall.
I got my PhD at Caltech.
I got my bachelor's degree,actually, in physics at Johns
Hopkins.
Thinking I'd be a pre med andthen I changed my mind.
Which is interesting.
Anyway, both the physics and thebiology and the biochemistry are
all turned out to be veryrelevant to our understanding of
(01:48):
EMF's.
And which has been my maininterest for about 11 years now.
And all of that work's been donesince I quote unquote retired
from the university.
So I've got now, what, 14 papersout on EMSF's.
And three of them have been veryhighly cited.
(02:09):
So they're, they've been highly,widely recognized in the
scientific literature.
So that even though I'm in asense a newbie on this, at this
stage in my life.
It's had quite a bit of impact,and it's mainly been focused on
how EMS work on the cells in thebody because that's the real
(02:29):
essential key to
James Egidio (02:32):
understanding what's going on.
EMFs in the in the media.
And it's becoming a subject thatgets shied away a lot by the
media for some reason oranother.
Explain to the viewers andlisteners, what is
electromagnetic frequencies andwhere are they found?
Dr. Martin Pall (02:55):
Let me just say first of all, that there is a
very big difference betweenelectronically generated EMFs,
which is what we're reallyconcerned about here.
And most naturally in theenvironment.
So electronically generatedEMF's are produced by electric
(03:17):
current, and it was shown backin 1831 by Michael Faraday, the
great British physicist of thatera, that when you have an
electric current, it generatesthis electromagnetic field
around it.
And and so because of that, andthis was later shown the these
(03:38):
electronically generated EMF'sare coherent.
That is, they behave as a singleobject that has a particular
frequency, a particular vectordirection, a particular polarity
and phase.
And for all of those reasons,these electronically generated
EMF's produce very powerfulelectric forces and magnetic
(04:02):
forces that can then impact theelectric charges in our body.
Most natural EMFs, in contrast,are incoherent.
They're made up of astronomicalnumbers of photons going off in
various directions, with variouspolarities and frequencies in
vector directions.
(04:23):
And for that reason, they onlyproduce miniscule forces.
And we don't have to worry aboutmost natural EMFs, but we do
have to worry about theelectronically generated EMFs.
And what's tragic about this isthat the safety guidelines that
have been generated by theindustry and have been adopted
(04:43):
by the regulatory agencies Onlywork for these incoherent
natural EMF's.
They don't work for theelectronically generated EMF's
that the industry is using forwireless communication.
So we're in this absolutelybizarre situation where you know
(05:05):
where everything that's supposedto be protecting us from it
completely bugged
James Egidio (05:10):
us.
Yeah.
You made a comment about thattoo, right here where it says
putting in tens of millions of5G antennas.
Without a single biological testof safety has got to be about
the stupidest idea anyone hashad in the history of the world.
And of course, this was a quoteby you some time ago.
And so let's discuss that alittle bit about this whole
(05:35):
thing with the 5g and the 5gtowers and EMFs.
Dr. Martin Pall (05:40):
Okay.
Let me just say, first of all,that.
Wireless communicationcommunicates by a pulse
modulation.
Okay, so it has an underlyingfrequency.
That's going up and down.
And then the intensity of it ismodulated over time.
(06:01):
So you have some really hugeintensities, and you have some
modest ones, and so forth, allinterspersed with each other.
And it's that pattern thatcarries the information.
Now, the only exception to thatwe're commonly exposed to is FM
radio, where they use frequencymodulation rather than intensity
modulation.
But everything else, we havethese huge changes, we have
(06:25):
these pulses.
And when you go from 2G to 3G,you have huge increases in
pulsation.
Why?
It's because that thencommunicates more information.
This is, by the way, it's aslight oversimplification.
I just want to point that out,but basically it's true.
You go from 3G to 4G, you gethuge increases in pulsations.
(06:47):
And you go from 4G to 5G, youget huge increases in
pulsations.
Whenever you have smarterdevices, they are smarter
because they pulse much more.
Now there are many differentreview articles that have
reviewed the literature thathave shown that the more these
things pulse.
In almost all cases, the biggerthe biological effect so that a
(07:12):
non pulse EMF of a particularaverage intensity produces
perhaps none or perhaps modesteffect, whereas you take the
same average intensity, but youhave these, some of these things
that are highly pulsed and theeffects are much, much greater.
(07:32):
And now I think we, we have anunderstanding of why they are.
But the fact is that empiricallyit's been shown that they are,
and yet the safety guidelinescompletely ignore this stuff.
They are based entirely onaverage intensity.
And so they simply do notpredict biological effects, and
(07:53):
they do not predict safety.
So when you go to 5G, The wholeidea of 5G was again to have a
huge increase in the amount ofcommunication, something like 20
fold over 4G.
And and in order to do that,they went to higher frequencies.
Why?
Because the more higher thefrequencies, the higher, the
(08:15):
more pulsations you'd get.
And we go to higher frequenciesand higher pulsations and
possibly higher maximumpulsations.
We don't know that for certain,but that's certainly a
possibility.
They don't and the industrydoesn't pay any attention to
these things.
They don't pay any attention tothe biological effects of these
(08:35):
things.
And so that's where we are.
And so 5G is not different in anentirely different kind of thing
than 4G and 3G and 2G.
It's just that every time you goto higher and higher pulsations,
you're taking tremendous risks.
And and that's and let me tellyou, I think there's some recent
(08:58):
studies that I've, some of themI've just and that, that show
how these pulsations work andwhy they, why, so it's not
mysterious anymore, how theywork and it was clear they did
work, but I think we know a lotbetter how they work.
James Egidio (09:15):
Yeah, I know they're talking about even 6g
and quantum computing and reallyrevving up the like you say, the
pulsations, what's the potentialharm with even the going into 6g
and possibly seven or evenwhatever they have planned in
the future.
It sounds like from what you'resaying is that the more they
(09:37):
ratchet up the is it thegigahertz power and pulsation?
The more damage it couldpotentially do.
Correct?
Dr. Martin Pall (09:44):
I don't think we're going to survive very
long.
You don't say that.
I've made some predictions inthe past, which I think were
unduly pessimistic because it isin fact quite.
(10:07):
Difficult to make predictionsabout how EFS's, how they're
going to impact us and how theirimpact.
will interact with other EMF'sthat are already in existence.
Things are very complex, andthey are not easy to predict.
But we are seeing things with 5Gwhere certainly people who are
(10:30):
near the 5G antennae, and there,there are going to be huge
numbers of them, of course.
over time, they are being veryheavily impacted and they're
being heavily impacted in waysthat are not completely
different from what other EMSdo, but they are just more
severe and more rapid in termsof their effects.
(10:50):
I, I think I believe there areseven different so let me just.
Lemme just backtrack a minutehere.
Sure.
Back in, in 19, I think it was72 or 73, there was a large
review articles published as abook on the impacts of these
(11:12):
EMFs.
Of course, they were looking atdifferent EMFs then on the
histology, on the cellularstructure of rodents and what
they found was that thedifferent tissues were
differently impacted, but thethree most, and they were all
impacted, it wasn't that, someof them don't get, have any
impacts at all, but the mostsevere impacts were on the
(11:36):
nervous system, including thebrain followed by the heart and
the chest, and we are seeing, inhuman populations, huge impacts
on all these things.
Which that doesn't prove thatthose are caused by EMF's, but
it certainly raises a giganticred flag when these effects that
(11:57):
we're seeing in humanpopulations, the timing of them
corresponds well to all of thenew EMF's that are being
introduced since around 1998 andso forth.
We keep introducing new ones andall this stuff is going up in
human populations.
And yet, we're not payingattention to it.
(12:18):
And there, there are effects onmale fertility.
There are also effects, by theway, on female fertility.
And but female fertility isharder to study.
There are effects on the heart,and I can talk about those if
you want.
And there are, I believe thereare probably seven different
ways in which EMF's impacts.
(12:42):
the brain.
I've published on four of those.
But you can't do everything.
James Egidio (12:48):
Yeah, let me ask you.
So what?
What are the actual?
Because, you hear 5G your hearEMF's.
What are the actual devices thatare putting out these pulsations
that are having a biologicaleffect on humans, what are these
devices specifically?
Dr. Martin Pall (13:05):
Okay so with, obviously with 5G and other cell
phone systems.
Huh.
Have the knitting antennae.
Which which put out pulse EMF'sand then there's a phone.
And so the newer phones, Ithink, have something like seven
different antennae on them.
And so they're, and they areemitting not only when you're
(13:29):
making a phone call or receivingone, but they emit all the time
because they're always searchingfor the nearest cell phone
antenna.
And so they're putting out, eMSall the time.
And that's and let me just saythere is published evidence that
where people carry their cellphone influences what kind of
(13:50):
effect you get.
So You know so these are thingsthat are going on.
Let me just say something elseabout, about cell phones,
because the industry claimsthose cell phones can't do
anything.
It's just nonsense.
There are a number of studiesthat have shown that the side of
your head that you carry yourcell phone, whichever cell, is
(14:14):
there, there are changes thatare going on, including cancer,
including headaches, includingDNA attack on the DNA of the
cell that occur on one side ofthe head, not the other
preferentially.
Now, it doesn't mean they don'toccur at all on the other side,
but they occur higher on theside that people use this elbow.
(14:36):
Now that is very strong evidencefor something.
And, when you bring this up tothe industry, they say, Oh, but
these things started too early.
And you know what?
They did.
What does that tell you?
It tells you that what, thatthat part of those phones do the
same thing and they came inearlier.
(14:56):
Yeah.
She makes all these denials andyet they don't work.
And there are effects, by theway, on, on a number of other
things, because I can't rememberall of them.
One of them is it affects thethe blood circulation in the
brain.
And produces tinnitus on oneside of the head, preferentially
and there are two or threeothers, but I can't remember
(15:18):
what they are.
Anyway yeah.
James Egidio (15:21):
What are some of the bio, biological, go ahead.
About
Dr. Martin Pall (15:24):
other kinds of devices.
James Egidio (15:26):
Yeah, what are some of the biological dangers
to 5G, because I know you wrotea couple papers, I know one
paper in particular you wrote.
This one here, microwavefrequency, electromagnetic
fields produce widespreadneuropsychiatric effects,
including depression.
So that's a paper that youwrote, and what were your
findings on that?
Dr. Martin Pall (15:46):
Okay, so what, this was a review article where
I looked at various kinds ofthings, and What I did, I
various kinds of radiationproducing these various, and I
divided them up into differenttypes and it was only when I had
five or more papers reporting aparticular thing that I
(16:09):
considered that to beestablished.
And so there were a lot ofthings and they included, I
can't sleep, tired all the time,I'm depressed, I can't
concentrate, my memory doesn'twork the I've got headaches
there, there are at least threeor four others that I can't
remember right now.
(16:30):
They, so all the things thatpeople are complaining about
basically are things that weknow are caused by EMF exposure.
Based on the, on their impact onthe brain.
Now let me just say, I'm not theonly one that published a paper
of this sort.
The paper I published I thinkWas was wider and it also talked
about mechanisms and there areat least 10 other papers that
(16:54):
have published somewhat similareffects.
Some of them going all the wayback, the earliest one was
published back in 1955.
So this stuff is not is not new.
And the One of the interestingthing is that when there were
three studies which, whichstudied occupational exposures.
So this was at a time when therewas essentially no exposure in
(17:18):
the general population.
So people in certainoccupations, such as or we're
seeing these effects and whatwas shown in these three studies
was they got worse and worsewith time.
Yeah.
Over time, and something thatmay might have only modest
(17:38):
effects in a couple of years,and as I say, they were looking
at different exposures than whatwe have, some of ours, so much
more rapidly the effects on 5G,by the way, for people who are
exposed to it, there's there,there are three different case
studies that have been publishednow by Dr.
Leonard Cardell and a colleaguein Sweden.
(18:01):
And they each show that you seewidespread, psychiatric
dementia, they occur veryrapidly, extremely rapidly from
the 5G.
And if you take these people outright away.
from these 5G exposures, putthem in a low EMF environment,
(18:22):
they go away.
The causation is clear fromthose findings, and and yet,
we're still doing nothing aboutit.
And now, there are also cardiaceffects that are produced.
And there are EHS effects, soelectromagnetic hypersensitivity
is another issue which has beendiscussed and documented in the
(18:46):
literature.
Again, the industry claims itdoesn't exist, but there's very
good evidence in the literaturethat's not true, that it does
exist.
It's still uncertain how commonit is, and there is no real
understanding in the literatureabout mechanism.
I've published that that EHSinvolves the hypersensitivity of
(19:13):
the main targets of the EMS.
It's in the voltage gatedcalcium channel.
The evidence for that is, can bequestioned.
Let me just say I believe it'sgood, but I think you can argue
that there, there's, it's notdefinitive.
But anyway, but that'll, I guessI'll leave it at that.
Yeah, where else?
(19:34):
What else?
James Egidio (19:35):
I wanted to get down to some of the biological
dangers to this 5G because Iknow when we were speaking off
the episode, you mentioned thatat the cellular, there's a
multitude of things that occurwhen we expose ourselves to 5g,
because I think a lot of peopletake it for granted, when
they're using a phone it's theconvenience factor.
(19:56):
I think we, we spoke about thatas well.
This convenience factor ofeverybody's attitude is someone,
you got to die at some point andyou're going to, you're going to
get sick at some point.
But I don't think people realizethe seriousness of these, this
5G rollout and these EMFs,correct?
(20:17):
They're underestimating them, itsounds like.
Dr. Martin Pall (20:20):
Yes, but it's also true for 4G and 3G.
And smart meters and and all theother exposures we have radar,
we put out self-driving carswith radar.
So we have radar all over theplace that they go ahead and do
all this stuff.
And and that, that has impactthey all have impact and none of
(20:43):
them are I guess I shouldn't goquite that far, but pretty close
to none of them of these majorexposures and things that are
benign.
There are, by the way, in thisfigure, you've got up here.
Let's talk about this figurebecause it will help in terms of
discussing those things
James Egidio (21:01):
that would be right.
Absolutely.
Yep.
So we have
Dr. Martin Pall (21:06):
a, excuse me, a whole series of of EMF, and they
range all the way frommillimeter waves, which are used
for 5G.
Through microwaves and and radiofrequencies and intermediate
frequencies, extremely lowfrequency, including 50 and 60
hertz in our power wiring, andeven static electric fields and
(21:29):
static magnetic fields.
And there's another set of EMFs,which are nanosecond pulses,
very rapid pulses.
All of those work by activatingthese VGTPs, these voltage gated
calcium channels.
And the way we know that is thatwe can use an inhibitor that
(21:53):
inhibits those VGCCs.
And we can block most of theeffects of the EMF's.
And that's been shown in manydifferent experimental studies.
The first paper I published onthis was actually the first
paper I published on EMF's waspublished in 2013, and it had 24
(22:14):
different studies where it wasshown that the the VGCC's
calcium channel blockers couldblock effect or at least greatly
lower the effect for these.
And since then I've publishedon, I don't know, six or seven
others, and they're and sothey're, and there's still
others I haven't published on.
So there's a large literature onthis acting in that way.
(22:36):
The first thing that happensthen when you have EGCC
activation is that you getincreases in intracellular
calcium.
So that ca two plus I isintracellular calcium and that
then produces essentially allthe effects that are diagrammed
here.
And a lot of the effects gothrough excessive calcium
(22:57):
signaling.
So calcium signaling in thecells of our bodies, and in fact
the cells of all eukaryoticorganisms, including plants and
fungi and so forth, is a veryimportant thing.
So if you get too much calciumin the cell, it produces too
much calcium signaling, orinappropriate calcium signaling.
(23:19):
That'll producepathophysiological effects.
Then there are several othereffects that are produced.
They're also actually producedthrough calcium signaling,
although it's not shown on this.
diagram here, but there's athere's a pathway by which you
get increases in nitric oxideand superoxide.
And they react with each otherto form peroxide nitrate.
(23:43):
Peroxide nitrate is a verypotent oxidant.
It breaks down to form highlyreactive free radicals.
So if you're looking down atthat line going from peroxide
nitrate towards the lower rightcorner you get highly reactive
free radicals, you get oxidativestress, you get elevation in NF
kappa B, and you getinflammation.
(24:06):
Now those things are involved inessentially all chronic disease,
almost all chronic disease.
So that's a big deal.
And and so you get thatphysiological effect as a
consequence of that.
You also get increases in nitricoxide.
(24:27):
Which I already well, I guess Ialready mentioned that and
nitric oxide signaling And thethere is a pathway for the
producing therapeutic from EMF'sand that goes through increases
in nitric oxide and you getcyclic GMP and 9HP and Nrf2 and
(24:50):
all this stuff that I havediagrams in there along the the
upper right part of the diagramhere and you get therapeutic
effects.
Now, what's the differencebetween the conditions that you
get therapeutic effects and youget the two main categories of
life you can affect?
is basically how big theintracellular calcium is.
(25:12):
If you have modest increases inintracellular calcium, you get
you can get predominantlytherapeutic effects.
If you have larger increases,then you get predominantly the
pathophysiological effects.
It's complicated.
I'm not saying it's simple.
It's not.
But I think we have a goodunderstanding of what is going
(25:35):
on here.
Now there's one other thing, andI've published on this.
I have a paper on Alzheimer'scausation by EMF's.
And in there, I showed that Thetherapeutic pathway and the
peroxy nitrate pathway eachinhibits the other via multiple
mechanisms.
And so what that means is that,you can have one condition that
(26:01):
gives you, one level ofintracellular calcium and you
get, and you have, a predominanttherapeutic effect, you get
another condition.
maybe even just slightly higherintracellular calcium, you can
get all kinds of tests, which inturn will suppress the
therapeutic effect.
Anyway, okay.
So there's a, and then there'sthe fourth pathway on the top.
(26:23):
I don't know whether you want meto talk about that or not.
James Egidio (26:26):
Yeah, that's fine.
It, like I said, it seems likeit's a cascading effect and it's
it's opening up a Pandora's boxfor a lot of, sounds like a lot
of health issues.
This whole thing with 5g
Dr. Martin Pall (26:38):
and I believe that.
When you look at the things thatwe have seen changing over the
last 25 years, or we've seenmajor changes over the last 25
years, I believe that you canmake an argument that EMF's have
(27:03):
an important role in everysingle one of us.
Now, you can question that, andI'm not saying that my judgment
is necessarily irrefutable.
And I'm not saying that therearen't other things that might
be involved, but but when youhave a single thing which is
being universally ignored interms of its biological effects
(27:27):
and its effects on the humanbody and on other organisms, and
yet may be generating all kindsof negative effects.
We're in very deep trouble andI, I can't so I think that
almost everything we see in oursociety and know where we
scratch our heads and say howcan this be, how can this be,
(27:51):
how, why is it we're seeingthis?
Why are, why is it and everytime people are saying it's
caused by this sex And that maybe true, but it may not be a
complete explanation.
And in some cases,
James Egidio (28:06):
yeah there's, I know there's wide speculation
that there's a tie between thechem trails.
I know we talked about thisbefore and I know it's not your
expertise, but there's aspeculation that.
And the sentiment out there thatthere's a tie between these chem
trails that are out up in theair that are spray, they're
(28:26):
spraying in the air.
And I've done a little bit ofresearch on that.
The gentleman that talks aboutthat a lot and has done
extensive research on that isDane Wigington.
He's actually even did adocumentary on it.
That talks about, metals and howthey're tied, the metals that
are in the chem trails, thealuminum oxide and the barium
(28:49):
oxide because they're electro,they attract electromagnetic
waves, but that's all part,that's all part of the 5G as
well.
Let me
Dr. Martin Pall (29:02):
say something about chemicals, because I've
also worked on chemical toxicityin the context of multiple
chemical sensitivity, which is acondition that's quite similar
to electromagnetichypersensitivity.
There are quite a number ofchemicals that also produce
(29:24):
increases in intracellularcalcium.
Most of those, but not all ofthem, act by increases in the
NMDA receptor activity.
And when the NMDA receptors areactivated, they also open up a
channel that allows calcium toflow in the cell.
(29:44):
The predominant effects producedthrough that mechanism are are
are free to the excessiveintracellular calcium.
Now that doesn't so you get, sofor example, when people talk
about excitotoxins in the brain,they're talking about excessive
(30:04):
intracellular calcium.
So there are a lot of chemicalsthat act that way.
Aluminum, interestingly, alsoraises intracellular calcium,
but it does it by a differentmechanism.
And so there may be connectionsthere as well.
And I think that excessiveintracellular calcium is
(30:29):
absolutely key.
Variable in, many differenttoxic.
James Egidio (30:36):
Yeah.
It just seems like a lot of theresearch that's been done in a
lot of the rollout with 5g andthese vaccines and these chem
trails all have some kind ofelectromagnetic metal that is
tied into all this together.
It's hard for me to believe thatit's not, and that they haven't
advanced far enough.
(30:56):
To where they want to plughumans in to these computers,
almost like a, almost wifimachines, cyborgs.
I know it sounds like, a lot ofpeople.
So that's a conspiracy theory,but I don't think so.
I think there's been a lot ofresearch.
I did a little bit of researchon, I think we mentioned this,
or I mentioned this to you isquantum computers and quantum
(31:19):
tattoos, and this was a Dr.
McHugh out of Rice university inTexas.
Who is doing research on quantumtattoos, which is tied into
quantum computing.
And it went back to vaccinepassports and vaccine for
vaccine for vaccines.
I think a lot of this stuff isall tied in this 5g and this
(31:41):
advancement in 5g technology,along with a lot of these metals
that you're talking about, orthat
Dr. Martin Pall (31:49):
Mercury can also.
increase the the NMDA receptoractivity and lead probably can
do it as well.
I, but what I'm saying here isthe following that, that when
you have chemicals actingthrough excessive intercellular
(32:10):
calcium and EMFs also acting viaexcessive intercellular calcium.
They can biologically interact,but they don't have to interact
in terms of basic, theirindividual mechanism.
They may be interacting justbecause of a similar biology
rather than rather than say oneacting to the EMF's or EMF's
(32:32):
acting to the chemicals, etc.
It's anyway,
James Egidio (32:38):
yeah.
So what are some of the, for thelisteners and viewers of the
medical truth podcast, what aresome of the safeguards or
precautions that someone cantake to minimize the exposure to
EMFs and 5G?
Dr. Martin Pall (32:53):
Let me just say, first of all, it's getting
harder and harder to do it.
And that's, that's a hugeproblem.
There are shielding materialsthat you can use to help protect
your body from from theradiation.
And they come in differenttypes, like there are paints you
can get that you can paint onyour walls that act as shielding
(33:14):
material.
There are, they basically, atthis point, come in two
different types.
There are paints that havegraphite in them, so they're
black.
And the graphite fibersbasically act as the shielding
material.
There are also paints that havelittle metal little flecks of
metal in them, and so the metalacts, again, as a shielding
(33:38):
material.
You can get clothes that areshielded, where they have little
metal fibers off of silver, butnot always.
And in the clothes.
And and they typically have tobe clean using a special
detergent rather than the usualway because they lose their
(33:59):
shielding properties.
It's my opinion that shieldingworks to a great extent, not by
Absorbing the EMF's, althoughthey do that, but by causing the
EMSF'sto lose their coherence.
So I mentioned before theimportance of the coherence of
(34:21):
the electronically generatedEMF's and it's the coherence
that makes them have muchstronger electric and produce
much stronger electric andmagnetic forces, which can then
impact our bodies.
And the The main target, and Ihaven't said what that is yet, I
(34:41):
think, so what am I saying?
The main target is a structurecalled the voltage sensor, which
controls the voltage gatedcalcium channels, but also other
voltage gated.
It turns out that the calciumchannels are the most important
because of the importance ofcalcium.
But they all are activated andall these channels that are
(35:05):
controlled by the same kind ofmolar sensor are activated.
And and so the voltage sensorhas something like 20 different
charges that are important incontrolling the response of the
the of the channel to electricalforces.
And and it's designed to behighly sensitive to changes in
(35:27):
these electrical forces.
And so it's that's the way youget the activation, I believe
it's a direct activation by theelectric forces on the charges
of the components of thecircuit.
That's and let me just saysomething about this, because,
when I talk about these thingssome of you may say do I really
(35:47):
need to know that?
And in one sense, the answer isno, you don't need to know that.
But on the other hand, becausebiology, including medicine, is
so stunningly complex thatpeople can generate all kinds of
hypotheses about what's goingon.
And most of the time, we don'thave the foggiest idea whether
(36:07):
they're right or wrong.
And what you need and what youalways need when you look at
biology and medicine is you needsome information about basic
mechanisms that are involved.
And when you have thatinformation, then you can say,
okay, this hypothesis makessense.
(36:28):
This one makes no sense at all.
And you can say it with a highdegree of certainty.
When you don't have that, thenyou're in deep trouble.
And that's why I spend a lot oftime looking at fundamental
mechanisms.
Because you really need to knowthose in order to, in order to
get to your medical proof.
(36:53):
Let
James Egidio (36:57):
me ask you, getting back to my question
about safeguards andprecautions.
It's doing something as simpleas putting let's say some
aluminum foil around yourwireless router and modem.
Would that help deflect some ofthe radiation that comes off
that router or modem?
Dr. Martin Pall (37:13):
Yeah, but of course, if you're using a
wireless router, then you needto get, you need to have the
EMF's in order to, in order forit to work, but you can
certainly, if you're.
In a different location thanwhere your device is that's one
thing, but if you're in the samelocation, then, you need to
(37:35):
have, you need to have thoseEMF's.
Let me just say I use a a wiredconnection for all of my
internet work, except on rareoccasions when I'm in traveling
and I can't do that.
And.
You can buy I'm sorry, I don'tknow what to call it.
You can buy cable modems whichdon't produce any Wi Fi and only
(38:01):
allow you to connect up with a awired connection.
You can use the wiredconnections with with other
kinds of modems and get thewireless turned off.
You have to also turn off the WiFi on your computer.
Yeah, part of the problem isthat people use things like some
(38:22):
of the tablets where where theWi Fi is turned on all the time.
Yeah.
So you don't want to use thosethings.
And so those are all things thatcan be done.
Let me, let's talk about a fewother things.
You telephone and those things,a lot of this stuff is very
(38:53):
poorly designed.
And for example the bases, thebase station on these for these
wireless telephones is in almostall cases irradiating 24 hours a
day, seven days a week.
The only time it needs toirradiate is when you're
receiving or placing a telephonecall.
(39:16):
Yeah.
So that makes absolutely nosense.
It's crazy, but that's thesituation.
I believe in Europe you can getsome phones that are actually
better than that, but they'reonly a specific type.
In the U.
S.
I don't think you can get themat all.
Yeah.
This is really outrageous and itis, and it's stupid.
(39:39):
But in addition to that most ofthese wireless telephones are
designed to be able to use 400feet away from the base.
How often do you need it?
400 feet away from the base.
James Egidio (39:58):
Yeah.
Almost never.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The TV, the televisions though,too, today they're all working
off of wireless as well.
And then when you have a,several televisions in the house
in different rooms and you'restreaming and it's all done
wireless, then now you're alsoadding this new technology,
which has been around for awhile now.
(40:19):
Internet of things, which isyour.
Refrigerator these wirelessdevices that these Apple watches
all these things are all, you'rejust bathing yourself in these
waves.
These 5g waves and these wifiwaves.
But
Dr. Martin Pall (40:36):
let me say something about that.
The I criticize them for notdoing biological safety testing
on 5g.
But in another sense, it'simpossible to do that.
Why do I say that?
Because when you have a 5Gsystem, and you've got
relatively few things attachedto it that are using 5G, then
(41:00):
the effects are going to be verydifferent from when you've got,
10, 15,100 more times asdevices.
Connected to it, right?
When you talk about connectingthis to the internet of things.
That's exactly what you'retalking about gigantic increases
in numbers, right?
So in a sense, it's impossibleto do actually by the face to
(41:23):
face But the fact is they don'teven do the basic stuff that you
know that you think That anybodywould do before you put this
stuff out And that tells yousomething.
It tells you they know thesethings are unsafe.
James Egidio (41:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I always said it.
I think the Amish were way aheadof their days during their time.
They didn't have all this stuff.
They're not tied to theseelectronic toys that we're all
probably killing ourselves with.
I
Dr. Martin Pall (41:54):
think, I think that there are a lot of these
technologies.
We can use without theseexposures.
We can do them wired.
The only thing that cannot bedone wired is cell phones.
But even cell phones could bedesigned so they were much safer
than they are.
(42:16):
And so the whole thing is just,it's just it's truly outrageous
what's going on.
It is.
James Egidio (42:23):
Dr.
Martin Pall, thank you so muchfor your time on the Medical
Truth Podcast.
I'd like to get you on again.
I know you also have done someresearch on chronic fatigue
syndrome and I'd like to maybeget you back on and we can talk
about that as well and some ofthe other findings that you have
discovered.
Okay.
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate your time onthe Medical Truth Podcast.
(42:44):
It's been an honor.
Thanks.
All right.
Thanks for listening to themedical truth podcast for the
latest episode, go to www.
medicaltruthpodcast.
com.
You can also find the medicaltruth podcast on rumble YouTube,
as well as the major podcastplatforms like apple podcast,
(43:06):
Spotify, substack, and I heart.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.