December 12, 2025 • 50 mins
In this episode, we take a look at Kirk Cameron's video where he decides to contradict the Bible and change his beliefs. He is now denying the Post-Trip Rapture, and also denies everlasting punishment in Hell. Listen to his own words and then compare them to the scripture, and you decide if if Kirk has gone off the deep end.
Melchizedek Chronicles Truth Seekers Ministries by Dr. Kenny Williamson
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Hello. My name is Kenny Williamson. I am a Christian and a King James Bible-only believer. My focus is on getting the truth to those who seek it. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.
Thanks, Kenny
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:21):
Hello, This is Kenny Williamson.Welcome back to another episode
of Mchale's Deck Chronicles. Today is another day here in
Arkansas, and I want to talk a little bit today about something
I had I'd heard a while back andthen I heard something more
about it again, and that is Mr. Kirk Cameron, the Kirk Cameron
(00:46):
controversy. If you've heard about that.
And I'm sure if you, I know if you're my age, I know you know
who Kirk Cameron is. You know, he played in a movie
or a movie, a sitcom called Growing Pains, of course.
(01:06):
And supposedly, as the story goes, while he was on this show,
you know, in Hollywood, he endedup getting saved.
So he stopped doing that sort ofthing.
So, you know, he he didn't want to have anything to do with
Hollywood because being a Christian and being in Hollywood
obviously doesn't go together. So later on he started doing
(01:27):
other kinds of movies like a Christian movies.
And I do believe he is in the Left Behind series, if you're
familiar with that. And if you remember those those
movies left behind series, I mean, that's more or less the
way majority of Christians todaybelieve, which I believe is, you
(01:52):
know, in the Bible, the same thing.
That's what the Bible teaches ismore or less those movies taught
a pre Trib rapture is, is what you could call that.
That's what they call it when you're referring to the rapture.
The of course, that is that a word is not in the Bible, but in
the King James Bible. It's called the catching away.
(02:14):
OK. And also that seven years is
not. Referred.
To as the Tribulation, it's referred to as Jacob's trouble,
OK. The whole purpose of Jacob's
trouble, Jacob being Israel, OK,is that the the Jews, the
(02:36):
Israelites, OK, have Israel has lost their way.
See, they no longer worship God as we do as Christians.
They don't, you know, believe inJesus Christ.
They don't worship Jesus. So what's happened is, is they
fell away and that's why, you know, they, they go by the Quran
(03:00):
or whatever they go by, they don't use the New Testament at
all. They, they don't consider
themselves to be Christians because they're waiting on their
Messiah. So they don't believe that Jesus
Christ when he came was their Messiah.
That's why they had him killed. So that's kind of the story on
that. So this whole purpose of Jacob's
(03:22):
trouble, which is 7 years of tribulation, but that's not the
title. The title is Jacob's Trouble is
to cause Israel to return back to Christ.
OK, through signs and stuff likethat.
See the Jews require signs according to the Bible and like
(03:44):
Gentiles don't. So all of the Jewish stuff that
happened all throughout the Bible, that's why God sent them,
You know, He sent them pestilences and plagues and all
that. He has to give them a sign.
They all require, they always require a sign.
So during these seven years of Jacob's trouble, they're going
(04:05):
to get lots of signs, OK, all kinds of stuff.
And that's going to cause them to turn back.
And that's what those movies predicted as well.
I mean, it showed your, your modern day Christian.
And then all of a sudden the catching away happens and they
disappear. And then you have all the people
that are left who now are like, oh, my gosh, what happened?
(04:27):
And some of them come to know Christ during this seven years.
But now this once the seven years have started, you've got
chaos, say, because you've got people dying.
You've got the government takingover.
You know, the devil's trying to get his hold on it because
eventually, 3 1/2 years into this seven years, he's revealed,
(04:48):
OK, so lots of this stuff is happening.
And that's those movies and KirkCameron was in those movies.
Well, here while back, I guess 6-7 months ago, Kurt came out
and said he no longer believes in a pre Trib rapture or a pre,
you know, a catching away beforeJacob's trouble, if you want to
(05:09):
say it that way. He now thinks that you're going
to go all the way through it as a Christian.
So for some odd reason, he now thinks that somebody who is
saved, who's redeemed, who is part of Christ, you know, is, is
part of Christ's body. Bone of his bone.
(05:30):
Flesh of his flesh. For some reason.
They need to go through a time of Jacob's trouble which was
designed for Israel to bring them back.
They need to go through that andsuffer and get murdered and
killed. Why?
Why? I mean, that's the most
ridiculous thing I've ever heard, but that's what a lot of
(05:50):
people believe. So, but see, he didn't believe
that and he's been in movies that says exactly opposite.
But now all of a sudden he's, well, he says you're going to go
through it, you're going to suffer.
And I don't have any videos on that.
But the one I was going to do ishe also again has come out and
basically says that. You.
(06:13):
You're not going to burn in hellforever.
So he he's he's flip-flopped on that too.
See, that's not what the Bible teaches.
That's not what normal Christianpeople believe.
And that's what we're going to go over.
So let's see. Yeah.
So like I said a few months ago,he said, I think it was six
(06:35):
months ago, he no longer believes in pre tribulation,
rapture or a catching away. OK.
And that's, that's something that regular Christians, like I
said, don't don't believe. And so now he's got this deal
going on. And of course he's got, I've got
(06:56):
a video on this that I'm going to play for you.
So basically he says he no longer believes in hell, at
least not the hell described that that's plainly described in
Scripture. He no longer believes that, OK,
basically his argument is that God is too gracious and too good
to sentence anyone to eternal punishment.
(07:19):
And instead he now believes basically what Jehovah's
Witnesses believe. Because, and I know that for a
fact, my dad was Jehovah's Witness.
And also what the 7th Day Adventists believe, and they've
taught that for over 100 years, is that the soul of the
unbeliever is simply annihilated.
And they're, they're simply justsnuffed out of existence
(07:44):
basically. So you don't have to suffer
because you just don't exist anymore.
So the Bible teaches basically that the soul is eternal and
it's either going to be eternally in hell or eternally
in heaven. But see these guys here like
Jehovah's Witnesses, they don't want to believe that.
They they want to say, wait a second, now let's see, there's a
(08:08):
high probability that we're going to hell, see.
So let's just make it to where, hey, you die.
You just simply don't exist anymore.
When you go to the grave, you goto sleep.
It's if you went to sleep, you don't know anything.
That's that's what my dad would always say.
You don't feel anything. So yeah, you're basically Scott
(08:29):
free. And then you've got the other
one say, well, you go to hell for a while, but then Hell is
cast into the lake of fire and that's when you're annihilated.
So they've got some weird, weirdthought patterns going on here.
So let me play the video. And of course, if this is audio
only for whoever is listening here, you'll get to hear the
(08:51):
audio because there's nothing really to see anyway.
Let me share the screen so I canget the audio video into it.
There it is. Let's see.
Let's hit play here and listen to this.
It's just just a minute long. I used to hold the position of
conscious eternal torment because that's just what I was
taught by people that I love andtrust.
(09:12):
I've learned that there are other positions and a very
robust argument can be made for conditionalism or annihilation.
ISM as Edward Fudge posits here and it it fits the character of
God in my understanding more than the the conscious eternal
torment position because it brings in the mercy of God
(09:37):
together with the justice of God.
It doesn't leave judgment out, it is just.
But it also fits with the Old Testament picture of the fate of
the wicked which is to be destroyed.
It is to die and it is to perish, not live forever in an
eternal BBQ. Yeah, not to live forever in an
(09:58):
internal barbecue. And that's I guess that's one
way to kind of make it sound stupid, you know, for listeners
who are on their way to hell already, you know, it's like,
oh, you don't worry, you're not going to be in eternal hell.
But let's let's kind of, you know, make it sound kind of
comical and say you're not goingto be in an internal BBQ.
(10:20):
Now. Come on now.
I don't how's that sound? But the problem is that sounds
really great, especially to itching ears.
It also sounds really great to people who don't want to get
saved. Like, oh, you mean I don't.
I don't get punished eternally, after all.
So what happens to me? Oh, I simply go to sleep and
(10:41):
never wake up. That's not too bad.
I think I'll just, I think I'll just live like the devil and
murder somebody. I mean, I've got nothing to
lose, so you know I don't. I don't quite think that's what
the Bible teaches now, does it? So what I have here is I have
several different, I think I've got 5, if we can go over them
(11:03):
all here. I have different things taken on
the Bible, different passages, and we're going to read those,
OK, and figure out what you think and.
I'm going to explain what it means in the Bible and try to
determine whether or not Mr. Cameron here has probably went
off the deep end somehow, some way.
(11:26):
OK, The very first one is in Luke 16.
It's Luke 1623 to 24, and it's the rich man in Lazarus.
OK, let me just get that pulled up here.
I have got that actually pulled up here in King James Bible.
(11:46):
And I'm just going to read directly out of here.
You know, that makes makes a little easier sometimes,
sometimes not necessarily easier.
But we know this is the truth here.
And you can follow along. This is Luke 16.
We're going to start in 19, verse 19.
It's the rich man and the beggar.
OK. So there's a certain rich man
which was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously
(12:06):
every day. And he wasn't saved, by the way.
He was not a believer. And there was a certain beggar
named Lazarus which elated his gate full of sores.
Lazarus was a believer, OK, and desiring to be fed with the
crumbs which fell from the rich man's table.
Moreover, the dogs came and licked his sores, and it came to
pass that the beggar died and was carried by the angels into
(12:29):
Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was
buried and in hell. Talking about the rich man, he
lifts up his eyes being in torments and see if Abraham afar
off and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father
Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus that he may dip the
(12:53):
tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am
tormented in this flame so but Abraham said, son, remember thou
in in thy lifetime, thou receivest thy good things and
likewise Lazarus evil things. But now he is comforted and thou
art tormented. So now right there you have an
(13:21):
example of now. Now keep in mind, this is before
Jesus Christ died, was buried, resurrected, ascended back into
heaven. So Abraham's bosom is also known
as paradise. OK, this was in the heart of the
earth. And, and in case you don't
(13:41):
understand, this is I'm going toexplain it to you.
Before Jesus Christ died on the cross, if you died, you went
into like a holding place, if you will, and that was
considered to be paradise or Abraham's bosom.
OK, you are there. You're not actually in heaven in
(14:04):
eternity yet because Jesus Christ hasn't died for your
sins, if this makes sense. So that's why the thief on the
cross with Christ, Christ said I'll see you in paradise because
he was going to go to paradise before he can go to heaven.
So the point of the matter is, is hell is there too.
(14:25):
OK, so we've got hell, we've gotparadise.
The rich man went to hell and clearly he's being tormented and
he's he's wanting Lazarus to take water and dip his finger in
in water and touch it to his tongue.
So he must be in fairly decent suffering here.
(14:47):
And but he's also conscience, you see, he, he can see who's
across the way. He can see Lazarus.
So it's not like he's just like a dead man burning.
I mean, he's. He's in his body, he has a
tongue, OK, And he can see otherpeople and he's miserable and
(15:08):
being tormented. So that's the idea of hell right
there. OK, well, this, and of course,
I'm using these as examples. OK, so we're going to go on here
to Revelation 2014. Let's say I've got Revelation 20
pulled up here, actually. Well, we're going to start a
little earlier than 14. We're going to start that.
(15:30):
Well, eleven, we're talking about the Book of Life and the
Great White Throne judgement, OK.
And this is an example of these people that are brought out of
hell and they're stood before Christ, before the Father, and
they're getting judged again, OK, Because see you you died and
you went to hell. You never technically got a
(15:53):
trial. So these people are in hell,
like, you know, saying, hey. I I never even got a.
Jury. Trial here.
So I want my day in court. Well, you're you're getting it
now. You're in hell and the white
throne judgement shows up. So like this says in in 12 here
and I saw the dead small and great stand before God and the
(16:14):
books were opened and another book was open, which is the book
of life. And the dead were judged out of
those things which were written in the books according to their
works. So these guys are getting,
they're getting judged by their works because they're not saved.
See, if you're saved, you have the blood of Jesus Christ to
cover your sins. Now your name is in the Lamb's
(16:38):
book of life, and the blood covers all of those sins.
And then God chooses to forget them.
And now there's nothing to report.
So they open the book. I don't see any sin.
It's not because you weren't a Sinner.
It's because you accepted the free gift of grace by faith,
(16:59):
see, and now your sins are covered.
But see, these guys didn't want to do that.
This is real similar to other people, my dad included, I'm
sure, and he didn't want to do that.
In fact, he actually told me once that say he didn't have the
thing to worry about because at the White Throne judgement, see
he gets a second chance and thenhe gets to state his case.
(17:19):
See he gets his day in court andthat he has a very compelling
story and you know of hardship and regret and everything else.
So his sins should be forgiven. But unfortunately that doesn't
work. The only thing you see sin
equals death. It it doesn't matter what the
(17:39):
excuse. So if you don't have the blood
of Jesus Christ to cover those sins, they're not forgiven.
You have to be punished, OK? So, and also, if you notice
here, the dead were judged out of those books, which were, and
what was written in the books according to their works,
everything you do is being written down.
(18:01):
They're in the books. You're being watched by angels,
by watchers. You're not getting away with it.
Just remember that, OK? And so the sea gave up the dead
which were in it, and Death and hell delivered up the dead which
were in them. And they were judged, every man
according to their works. Well, I know I wouldn't want to
(18:23):
be judged by my works. OK, I don't think you'd want to
be judged either. So here we go to the next one.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death. And whoever and whosoever was
not found written in the Book ofLife was cast into the lake of
Fire. I mean, that's OK.
(18:44):
So we've got Hell. You're burning in hell.
You get to get judged at the White Throne judgement.
And then of course you're going to be found guilty because your
name is not in the book of life.You're going to be judged
according to your work. So you're guilty as sin.
Guilty, guilty, guilty. OK, so now you get thrown into
the Lake of fire. So a lot of these guys are
(19:07):
saying, well, the Lake of fire, that's that's it.
That's when you get snuffed out.That's the annihilation part,
you see. You know you were in hell for
1000 years or whatever, but now you know, you get to go into the
Lake of fire, that's all. Now, if you back up here into
(19:29):
verse 10, let's see here, I believe that's what it is.
Yeah. And it says, and the devil that
deceived them was cast into the lake of fire.
So he's getting cast in the lakeof fire at the end here, same
lake of fire and the lake of fire and brimstone where the
beast and the false prophet are.And she'll be tormented day and
(19:53):
night, forever and ever. So the devil's in the lake of
fire and he's being tormented day and night, forever and ever.
So the Lake of Fire is not just.Not just something where
everything disintegrates and doesn't exist says right there
the lake of fire, you know, tormented forever and ever.
OK, let's move on to Mark Chapter 9 and we'll do.
(20:20):
Let's see here. Well, I guess verse 44, I mean
basically Jesus is talking here.If you have a a Bible where
you're the words of Christ are in red, these are in red.
This is Christ talking. And in 44 here he says he's
talking about them going to helland he says into the fire that
(20:43):
that never shall be quenched. OK where their worm dieth not
and the fire is not quenched. OK, he goes he goes down and
talks a little bit about some more.
And then in 46 he says where their worm dieth not and the
fire is not quenched. Come down the number 47 he talks
(21:07):
him a little bit more about someoffenses.
And then verse 48 where their worm dieth not and the fire is
not quenched. OK, so if you have, you know, if
God says something once like in a couple verses, that's
probably, I mean, obviously it'simportant because anything God
(21:28):
says in the Bible is important. Anything God says, you know, all
scripture is given by inspiration of God and it's
profitable for doctrine, for reproof, correction and
instruction in righteousness. So every word in there is good.
But if he says it twice in basically 11 little paragraph
there, maybe you should stop andthink a little bit about it.
(21:51):
But three times he says it threetimes in five verses.
It sounds to me like Jesus is trying to kind of drive home a
point. OK?
Like the point being the fire never goes out and those in it
never die. I mean, doesn't that kind of
sound like what you're trying todrive home there?
(22:15):
What he's trying to drive home and we've got, and some would
say, well, the worm dieth not. What does that mean?
Well, I've got some notes on that here too.
The worm could be referring to the person's own eternal
existence. It's so in other words, it's
never ceasing, it's never ending, not annihilated like
(22:36):
they're saying, not unconscious,eternally alive, eternally aware
and eternally suffering. So that's that's one of them.
So I've got some, I've got some other notes here on it.
So basically where the worm dieth not Jesus actually is
(22:58):
quoting Isaiah 6624 and he's talking about these people that
offended him. He says for their worm shall not
die, neither shall their fire bequenched.
She says the same thing in Isaiah.
This is a picture of corpses of those who rebelled against God.
He's talking about their rottingcorpses.
Shame, judgement and disgust before all flesh and Jesus
(23:21):
pulls. The same language into Mark 9
and applies it to hell and basically if you if you're
trying to sum this up in a few words here, the dead bodily a
dead body normally rots away worms, maggots, larvae eat the
flesh if those are the worms we're talking.
About. Eventually the worms die because
(23:43):
the body is either used up or the worms die themselves.
But here obviously Jesus is saying their worm dieth not and
the fire is not quenched. So I would say that means the
decay in the, you know, the worm, the decay never finishes.
(24:04):
It's never ending. The burning also never stops.
So you know, how, how do you getout of that?
Hey, don't worry, I'm going to be snuffed out over here in the
lake of fire and I'll just be annihilated and I won't know
nothing. That's not what that's not what
(24:25):
the Bible here is teaching. So I've got some other notes
here referring to the worm. You know which I took notes on
it. It has been described as their
worm. When I look this up, obviously
view 1 is literal maggots, theirworm, or actual worms.
(24:49):
So basically that view would saythat Jesus using the picture of
actual worms that never run out of food because the soul doesn't
cease to exist, so the state of decay in ruin never ends.
So you're conscious. Another one is that they're
(25:11):
referring to the worm is the person's own consciousness or
existence. So you can take their worm to
stand for the person themselves in their ongoing state.
So it's their worm is individually owned and personal.
(25:31):
That's that's you, it's their worm, it's their identity.
So just like the fire doesn't goout, they don't stop existing.
And one of the guys that I have followed for years, Peter
Ruckman, you know, I've, I've, I've listened to his stuff.
I've got his commentary back behind me there.
(25:54):
And a lot of his stuff he taught.
He believed that you would be basically converted into a worm.
It's like you would go down to like the lowest form of
existence and so instead of having your full blown body in
there, you would actually be condensed down to like the
lowest form of life, which wouldbe equivalent to a worm or a
(26:18):
maggot and you would live in hell as a maggot.
More or less. That's the way he said it could
be. But either way, whether you're
put down to the size of a maggotor a worm and you're suffering
for all eternity, or if you're in your body and you're getting
ate up by worms for all eternityand burning it, it's eternity.
(26:44):
It's not annihilation. So let's move on here to Matthew
25. So I've got that in my King
James Bible right here. We've got Matthew 25 and I
believe the first one here, yeah, is verse 41.
And it says then, and of course this is Jesus talking.
(27:05):
This is in red. Then shall he say unto them on
the left hand he's talking. This is about the separation of
the sheep and the goat judgment.And obviously the sheep get to
go to heaven. The goats are going to hell.
OK, That's, that's one of the judgments that's done at the end
(27:25):
of Jacob's trouble. So then shall he say unto them,
on the left hand apart. From me the ye.
Cursed into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his
angels. So that's where we get right
there. See, Hell was initially, it was,
it was designed for the devil and his angels.
(27:45):
That's what it's prepared for. He doesn't want you to go there.
It's, it's, it's for them. That's why it's everlasting.
So that that's where you're at on that one.
It's everlasting. They deserve everlasting
punishment. Now, does God want you to go
there? And no, He wants you to come to
the saving grace knowledge of Jesus Christ.
(28:06):
But not everybody's going to do it.
So obviously that's where he's going to stick you right there
in the same place prepared for the devil and his angels.
And then go on to verse 46. And of course he talks, you
know, about who's going and he says, and these shall go away
into everlasting punishment. But the righteous into life
(28:27):
eternal again, Everlasting punishment, Not punishment for a
little while. And then you get snuffed out
into annihilation and you don't have anything to worry about
that. That's not what it says.
I mean, this is this is where it's coming from.
Jesus. So now let's look at Revelation
(28:52):
14 here. I've got that pulled up here.
I've got that pulled up here in my app, my Bible app.
Just kidding, it's a Bible. Let's see Revelation 14 and
we're going to get down here to the angels messages.
Let's see verse 9. And the third Angel followed
(29:13):
them, saying with a loud voice, if any man worship the beast and
his image and receive his mark in his forehead or in his hand,
the same shall drink of the wineof the wrath of God which is
poured out. Oops, how do I say which is
poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation and
(29:38):
he the person who took the mark of the beast.
So that's what we're talking about here.
So if you're living in in Jacob's trouble or the time of
tribulation, 3 1/2 years into it, when Antichrist reveals
himself and reveals this mark and you take it so you can buy
and sell, you're non redeemable.At that point you will be
(30:02):
burning in hell. And for how long?
We'll let's see. And he shall be tormented with
fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and
in the presence of the Lamb, in the smoke of their torment
ascendeth up forever and ever. And they have no rest, day nor
night. Who worship the beast in his
(30:23):
image, and who, who, and whosoever receiveth the mark of
his name, they're going to the same place forever and ever, no
rest day or night. That doesn't sound anything like
annihilation to me. That sounds like turn or you're
(30:45):
going to burn. And I mean burn, baby.
You ain't getting away with it. So, so, you know, I really don't
know what Kirk Cameron's trying to trying to pull here.
I really don't. Let's see what the rest of my
notes here say. As you know, I'm getting old
(31:09):
trying to remember everything and take all the notes and say
it and trying to not say OK as much because apparently I say
that a lot and I keep catching myself saying it and apparently
I clear my throat a lot too, trying to stop doing that.
You know, there's I've got guys telling me you should take a
drink of water. What I do drink water.
You know, I even take cough drops.
(31:32):
But it's like I was telling the guy on the comments, it's like
this, the moment I get in front of this microphone right here,
my throat locks up. I won't, I won't clear my throat
all day long. But as soon as I sit here, I've
got to clear my throat. So now I'm going to start using
the pause and the edit function on this thing a little more.
I'm starting to learn a little more so you don't have to listen
(31:56):
to as much malarkey. OK, So what do we make of Kirk
Cameron's claims? Basically, for 30 years old,
Kirk Cameron is professed to be a Bible believing Christian.
And obviously we hope he is. We hope everybody is.
(32:16):
But for some reason, and when someone like Kirk here, he
starts adopting doctrines long taught by Jehovah's Witnesses
and 7th Day Adventists, doctrines that clearly
contradict Scripture in every turn.
There is no such thing as annihilation.
(32:37):
It is not mentioned. There is never anything ever
mentioned that would even lead you to believe that other than
guys like this saying, well, God's just so great.
God just loves you so much. He wouldn't do that to you.
He wouldn't do no such of a thing that is not in the Bible.
That's wishful thinking. So anybody that teaches this
(33:01):
kind of stuff that clearly contradicts Scripture, I would
say you have to be cautious of anything else they say.
So when a person turns away fromyour foundational doctrines, you
know, there are lots of foundational doctrines like
Christ to be saved, once saved, always saved.
(33:24):
That's a good one. That's a foundation and I'll
talk about that here soon, but or a minute, but you start
turning away from those foundational doctrines.
You then you must compare everything they say from that
point on with the word of God. Don't get that confused with
(33:46):
their personality of their reputation, their sincerity or
their popularity. See, because, oh, Kirk, he's a
popular guy, movie star, and youknow, he starts off strong and
is actually talking about what the Bible says.
(34:06):
Now all the sudden we're doing aflip flop.
So what are we now? Jehovah's Witness?
You know, we're Jehovah's Witnesses teach that Jesus is
not God. He's he's a lesser God.
He's a demigod. In fact, they teach that he's
Lucifer's brother. They're brothers.
They were both created and so Jesus, at any point he can just
(34:29):
get up and walk away and say. I'm out of here.
That's what they teach. They don't believe in the
Godhead. 3 in 1/3 parts. Not three persons, three parts
of the same being. You see, you have God.
(34:49):
He has three parts. He has the Spirit, the Holy
Spirit, He has the soul, which is God the Father, and he has
the body, which is Jesus Christ.Just as we have a body, a spirit
and a soul. Ours are all connected.
At the moment when we die, they separate out.
(35:11):
Our body goes to the grave, our soul goes to heaven, our spirit
goes back to the Father because he's the one that supplied it.
God, He's a triune being. He has the three parts, but He
can separate His at will. We don't understand that.
I don't expect you to understandthat.
(35:32):
I don't understand that. I can't do it.
You can't do it. Our minds can't comprehend it.
OK, but that is what the Bible teaches, OK?
In the beginning was the Word, the Word was Jesus Christ, the
Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Later on, the Word became flesh and dwelt among us as a man,
(35:56):
Jesus Christ. So see, that's what the Bible
teaches. That is a foundational doctrine.
And I, I know a person, they went to a counselor here
recently, and it's a woman counselor.
And yeah, I don't know if she's a preacher or a pastor or what,
Which if she is, she shouldn't be.
(36:17):
She's supposedly a healer of some type, which I don't
necessarily believe is biblical either.
But the very first thing apparently out of her mouth is,
oh, by the way, there's no such thing as once saved, always
saved. You're saved by works.
So, you know, right off the bat,a lot of these people, they try,
they try to get you so screwed up.
(36:38):
They try to get you lost. I, I don't know why.
I mean, I, I'm trying to figure out and I, I would have to ask
this person this question. What do you think you can do
better than Jesus Christ? What exactly do you have that
God's so interested in that Jesus Christ dying on the cross,
(37:04):
an innocent victim shedding his blood for you to get your name
written into a lamb's book of life?
What can you do more than that is my question, because
apparently that's not enough. That's not enough.
We need more. We need you to do something now.
(37:26):
So what are you going to do for me?
What are you going to do for God?
I mean, because it's by works now.
You're not saved by grace alone.Oh no, God's grace is what's
saving. You, you need to do something.
So I guess you need to be good, don't you?
Say a cuss word because come on.Seriously, if that was the case,
(37:49):
nobody would be saved because your works aren't good enough.
That's why right back here in Revelation at the White Throne
judgement, the ones that didn't have the blood of Jesus Christ,
they will be judged by their works.
Your works are not going to cut it.
(38:11):
You're never going to be good enough.
Your righteousness is like dirty, filthy rags to God.
Don't you understand that? No, we don't understand that.
See, Jesus Christ, he's just notquite good enough.
We're going to do better. Really.
(38:32):
How so? You're going to do better than
God himself made flesh and dwelled among men and died for
your sins. And give me a break.
It's stupid, but that's what we have people teaching.
Those are your false teachers. And they tell that to people
(38:53):
with itching ears. See, instead of telling you the
truth, that listen, if you don'tget saved before you drop dead,
you are going to burn in hell and you're going to be in hell.
For at least 1000 years. Because the White throne
judgement comes at the end of Jesus Christ Millennial reign.
(39:15):
A millennial millennial is 1000 years.
So while he's raining on earth for 1000 years, you'll be
burning in hell. Where the worm dieth not your
worm dieth not OK. Torture, suffering, fire and
brimstone. So that's where you'll be for at
(39:36):
least 1000 years. It's not like you're going to
die and go to hell like right now.
And excuse me, sorry about that.You're.
Not going to die and go to hell and somehow be up in front of
the throne like in in a day, a week, a month.
Because see, the white throne judgement doesn't happen until
(39:58):
the end of the Christ millennialreign.
That's not for 1000 years. Because because he hasn't, he
hasn't showed up yet. We haven't started that time
frame yet. That dispensation isn't here
yet. Now, if you were living in the
millennial Kingdom, I guess, andyou somehow died on day 900 or
(40:23):
year 999.9, and somehow during that time you weren't saved
because obviously there are people that aren't because they
turn against Christ at the end, during, you know, when Satan is
released in Satan's little season, they turn against
Christ. So apparently they're not saved.
They, they did. They're still not accepting it
even though they're alive. So I guess if you died in the
(40:45):
millennial Kingdom in year 999.9, you would only have a
very short time before boom, you're right back up to the
white Throne judgement. So you're like, oh, I'm I only
had to be in hell for three days.
Well, then that's an exception. But that's not going to happen
(41:06):
right now because we ain't anywhere near.
I mean, we may be getting close,but we've still got Jacob's
trouble of seven years to go through.
Somebody does before we even getto the thousand year reign of
Christ. So as of right now, if you died
today and went to hell and Jacob's trouble started
(41:29):
tomorrow, you would be in. Hell, for one. 1007 years
minimum. Then you're going to wake up.
You're going to stand before theWhite Throne.
All the books are going to be opened of everything you've ever
done, which is going to be probably enough to make most
people's hair turn white. OK, wow, nobody's going to
(41:51):
believe it. And then you're going to stand
up there. What?
And try to justify yourself. Well, the next thing is, OK, OK,
we OK, let's hear your arguments.
I'm maybe you'll get to do an argument.
I mean, it'll be, I guess, comical.
I mean, the people standing around up there that are saved
and the angels and stuff, they're going to be like, oh
(42:12):
boy, here we go again. Another one that's like, Oh,
well, you know, blah, blah, blah.
OK, OK, well, we got to hear it all.
Now here's the most important part.
Let's open up the Lamb's book oflife.
Is your name written in it? Because if it is, hey, right
into heaven, baby. But if it's not, well, you're
(42:36):
going to burn. You're going to burn.
We're going to cast you right into the lake of fire forever
and ever. That's what the Bible teaches
where the smoke of the torment rises forever and ever.
So it doesn't sound to me like it's going away anytime soon,
does it? Don't sound like it sounds like
(42:59):
somewhere you're going to be burning.
So I think that like this Kirk Cameron deal, it's like, it's
like, it's like, oh, Peter Ruckman used to put it.
Anytime you hear anybody trying to air condition hell, that's
because they're on their way there.
That's the only people that thatthat want to take away from hell
(43:22):
and. Oh, it's not that bad.
It's not that bad. Oh well, even if you, even if
you. Did burn just for a little bit?
It's it's really not that bad, in fact.
Then right after that, you'll just be snuffed out.
You won't even know what happened.
Like you never existed. But that's just not what the
Bible teaches, is it? That's made-up.
That's a fairy tale. So why don't we just.
(43:44):
I mean, if you're going to make up a big fat fairy tale like.
That why even believe what the Bible says to begin.
With just say, oh, there's no hell.
Isn't that what atheists and allthem do?
I don't believe this book right here.
So there's no hell, there's no God, there's no devils.
I don't have anything to worry about.
I can do whatever I want. I'm my own God.
(44:05):
Isn't that what they believe? And I get to do whatever I want.
Do as thou wilt is the whole of the law.
Isn't that what the Satanists say?
So I mean, you know, so, so anyway, I don't know what Kirk's
deal is. I have no idea.
But there's, I mean, you just Google it, go on to YouTube and
check it out. You can see all the videos for
(44:26):
yourself. All kinds of people are making
comments about it because it's not scriptural and he's supposed
to be a Christian. So he's he's going against, you
know, established doctrine. This, this a fact that you can
read it in black and white. I get we can chapter and verse
it. I mean, it's right here.
(44:49):
So I don't know what the guy's thinking.
Again, he's from Hollywood. He's big and popular.
I don't. I've always thought that, you
know, you can't get into a position like that and be saved.
That's what I've that's what I believe.
(45:09):
Maybe he is. I don't really know.
Can you be a movie star and be saved?
It's hard for me to believe. I don't know their heart, but it
I don't believe it. I just don't believe it.
Now, this guy here supposedly got out of Hollywood, but he's
still in a lot of movies. Who's producing those movies?
(45:33):
Isn't it still Hollywood? Somebody's producing them.
And now once we get big super back and popular again and we're
all the Christian movies. So now we've got all the
Christians watching you and all.He's a good guy.
That's a good guy. Now let's flip the script and
start saying stuff that's not true, you know, trying to tell
(45:56):
people it's OK. So I guess his message to
unbelievers is don't worry aboutgetting saved because you know,
hey, God's going to snuff you out.
You're not going to suffer. Just ask a Jehovah's Witness,
they'll tell you. That's why they're not worried
about anything. I'll get a second chance up
there at the White Throne judgement.
I'll get to state my case. And even if I don't, well, I'm
(46:17):
just annihilated anyway. I'll just get snuffed out.
I don't even know. I don't even know I wasn't
there. I don't feel anything.
I don't care. Therefore, why do I have to
worry about it? Maybe I don't want to go to
heaven and have to serve up in heaven.
You know, I'd just rather be snuffed out.
I won't remember a thing. Don't feel anything.
(46:37):
That's what they believe, but they that's not what the Bible
teaches. And of course, the Jehovah's
Witnesses, you know, they had torewrite the Bible.
They've got their own Bible, theNew World Translation, based off
of perverted Catholic Bible. So their Bible could say
anything. I don't, you know, I know that
it, I know that it denies Christ, the deity of Christ.
(46:58):
I know that. That's why they're not witnesses
for Christ. They're Jehovah's Witnesses.
They, they don't care anything about Christ.
There's like, who's that? Oh, that Angel like guy or
something that God created. Oh, we don't need him.
We've got Jehovah. But you know, they don't believe
(47:18):
it when Christ says no man gets to the Father, but through me
you have to accept him and his shit.
They don't believe that So so now Kirk here he's he's going to
start pushing Jehovah's Witnesses stuff on us.
So I. I don't know.
I don't sound very legitimate tome so but you be the judge.
You be the judge on that I I presented to you what I think
(47:42):
You let me know what you think. Anyway, I'm going to wrap this
thing up. Thanks for listening.
Let's see here if I've got my deal here.
Remember I have got Flat Earth Bible if you're interested.
I wish there was some way I could do a sale on that for
Christmas. I mean, I need to get on Amazon
and see maybe there is maybe there's some kind of deal I can
(48:02):
do for Christmas for that. But anyway, it's on it's on
Amazon if you're interested. Just go check that out.
As always, like I said, I'm on Spotify.
The kills debt chronicles by Doctor Kenny Williamson.
If you if you check that out, please like it, share it, the
whole 9 yards because it's it's one of those deals.
(48:23):
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I've also got YouTube. YouTube is slowly growing.
It's up to like 202 hundred people now, which is basically
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(48:46):
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But if you if you're on there, please subscribe it, subscribe
to it like it. And I'm also on Rumble as Kenny
Williamson official and it's gotmy old logo on there.
I'm still using that logo. But anyway, so it's on there.
So all this stuff is available anytime anyplace.
(49:07):
You can listen video, you can watch video or you can do audio
only. So thanks for listening.
Be sure and check out our websites too.
I'm going to get those up here. I've got it's flatrow.com and
truth seekers ministry.org and there's actually a new link at
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(49:31):
There's a new link down there. It's called a sponsorship and
what that is, if you had a business like an online business
of some kind, like you sold, I don't know what Bibles, guns,
whatever, something that's in line with what I teach and what
we believe at Truth Seekers. If you wanted your name
mentioned, your business mentioned, a picture of your
(49:55):
business or a link to it, we could do like a little
advertisement for you of like minded people.
It has to be that. It can't be anything like
something stupid, OK, Anyway, socheck that out if if you're
interested. And the only reason I put that
up there is because I'm not, I don't monetize anything and you
(50:16):
know, everything cost a fortune.So I guess I have a job.
I pay for everything with my ownmoney.
But if you're interested and if you had something like that, we
could, you could send me something and we could do your
advertisement or something like that.
We could put it on the website or we could do it on the
podcast. Just something, just something
to think about if you're interested.
If not, no big deal. Everything's still for free.
(50:38):
Thanks again for listening and until we meet again.
God bless you.
Hello, This is Kenny Williamson.Welcome back to another episode
of Mchale's Deck Chronicles. Today is another day here in
Arkansas, and I want to talk a little bit today about something
I had I'd heard a while back andthen I heard something more
about it again, and that is Mr. Kirk Cameron, the Kirk Cameron
(00:46):
controversy. If you've heard about that.
And I'm sure if you, I know if you're my age, I know you know
who Kirk Cameron is. You know, he played in a movie
or a movie, a sitcom called Growing Pains, of course.
(01:06):
And supposedly, as the story goes, while he was on this show,
you know, in Hollywood, he endedup getting saved.
So he stopped doing that sort ofthing.
So, you know, he he didn't want to have anything to do with
Hollywood because being a Christian and being in Hollywood
obviously doesn't go together. So later on he started doing
(01:27):
other kinds of movies like a Christian movies.
And I do believe he is in the Left Behind series, if you're
familiar with that. And if you remember those those
movies left behind series, I mean, that's more or less the
way majority of Christians todaybelieve, which I believe is, you
(01:52):
know, in the Bible, the same thing.
That's what the Bible teaches ismore or less those movies taught
a pre Trib rapture is, is what you could call that.
That's what they call it when you're referring to the rapture.
The of course, that is that a word is not in the Bible, but in
the King James Bible. It's called the catching away.
(02:14):
OK. And also that seven years is
not. Referred.
To as the Tribulation, it's referred to as Jacob's trouble,
OK. The whole purpose of Jacob's
trouble, Jacob being Israel, OK,is that the the Jews, the
(02:36):
Israelites, OK, have Israel has lost their way.
See, they no longer worship God as we do as Christians.
They don't, you know, believe inJesus Christ.
They don't worship Jesus. So what's happened is, is they
fell away and that's why, you know, they, they go by the Quran
(03:00):
or whatever they go by, they don't use the New Testament at
all. They, they don't consider
themselves to be Christians because they're waiting on their
Messiah. So they don't believe that Jesus
Christ when he came was their Messiah.
That's why they had him killed. So that's kind of the story on
that. So this whole purpose of Jacob's
(03:22):
trouble, which is 7 years of tribulation, but that's not the
title. The title is Jacob's Trouble is
to cause Israel to return back to Christ.
OK, through signs and stuff likethat.
See the Jews require signs according to the Bible and like
(03:44):
Gentiles don't. So all of the Jewish stuff that
happened all throughout the Bible, that's why God sent them,
You know, He sent them pestilences and plagues and all
that. He has to give them a sign.
They all require, they always require a sign.
So during these seven years of Jacob's trouble, they're going
(04:05):
to get lots of signs, OK, all kinds of stuff.
And that's going to cause them to turn back.
And that's what those movies predicted as well.
I mean, it showed your, your modern day Christian.
And then all of a sudden the catching away happens and they
disappear. And then you have all the people
that are left who now are like, oh, my gosh, what happened?
(04:27):
And some of them come to know Christ during this seven years.
But now this once the seven years have started, you've got
chaos, say, because you've got people dying.
You've got the government takingover.
You know, the devil's trying to get his hold on it because
eventually, 3 1/2 years into this seven years, he's revealed,
(04:48):
OK, so lots of this stuff is happening.
And that's those movies and KirkCameron was in those movies.
Well, here while back, I guess 6-7 months ago, Kurt came out
and said he no longer believes in a pre Trib rapture or a pre,
you know, a catching away beforeJacob's trouble, if you want to
(05:09):
say it that way. He now thinks that you're going
to go all the way through it as a Christian.
So for some odd reason, he now thinks that somebody who is
saved, who's redeemed, who is part of Christ, you know, is, is
part of Christ's body. Bone of his bone.
(05:30):
Flesh of his flesh. For some reason.
They need to go through a time of Jacob's trouble which was
designed for Israel to bring them back.
They need to go through that andsuffer and get murdered and
killed. Why?
Why? I mean, that's the most
ridiculous thing I've ever heard, but that's what a lot of
(05:50):
people believe. So, but see, he didn't believe
that and he's been in movies that says exactly opposite.
But now all of a sudden he's, well, he says you're going to go
through it, you're going to suffer.
And I don't have any videos on that.
But the one I was going to do ishe also again has come out and
basically says that. You.
(06:13):
You're not going to burn in hellforever.
So he he's he's flip-flopped on that too.
See, that's not what the Bible teaches.
That's not what normal Christianpeople believe.
And that's what we're going to go over.
So let's see. Yeah.
So like I said a few months ago,he said, I think it was six
(06:35):
months ago, he no longer believes in pre tribulation,
rapture or a catching away. OK.
And that's, that's something that regular Christians, like I
said, don't don't believe. And so now he's got this deal
going on. And of course he's got, I've got
(06:56):
a video on this that I'm going to play for you.
So basically he says he no longer believes in hell, at
least not the hell described that that's plainly described in
Scripture. He no longer believes that, OK,
basically his argument is that God is too gracious and too good
to sentence anyone to eternal punishment.
(07:19):
And instead he now believes basically what Jehovah's
Witnesses believe. Because, and I know that for a
fact, my dad was Jehovah's Witness.
And also what the 7th Day Adventists believe, and they've
taught that for over 100 years, is that the soul of the
unbeliever is simply annihilated.
And they're, they're simply justsnuffed out of existence
(07:44):
basically. So you don't have to suffer
because you just don't exist anymore.
So the Bible teaches basically that the soul is eternal and
it's either going to be eternally in hell or eternally
in heaven. But see these guys here like
Jehovah's Witnesses, they don't want to believe that.
They they want to say, wait a second, now let's see, there's a
(08:08):
high probability that we're going to hell, see.
So let's just make it to where, hey, you die.
You just simply don't exist anymore.
When you go to the grave, you goto sleep.
It's if you went to sleep, you don't know anything.
That's that's what my dad would always say.
You don't feel anything. So yeah, you're basically Scott
(08:29):
free. And then you've got the other
one say, well, you go to hell for a while, but then Hell is
cast into the lake of fire and that's when you're annihilated.
So they've got some weird, weirdthought patterns going on here.
So let me play the video. And of course, if this is audio
only for whoever is listening here, you'll get to hear the
(08:51):
audio because there's nothing really to see anyway.
Let me share the screen so I canget the audio video into it.
There it is. Let's see.
Let's hit play here and listen to this.
It's just just a minute long. I used to hold the position of
conscious eternal torment because that's just what I was
taught by people that I love andtrust.
(09:12):
I've learned that there are other positions and a very
robust argument can be made for conditionalism or annihilation.
ISM as Edward Fudge posits here and it it fits the character of
God in my understanding more than the the conscious eternal
torment position because it brings in the mercy of God
(09:37):
together with the justice of God.
It doesn't leave judgment out, it is just.
But it also fits with the Old Testament picture of the fate of
the wicked which is to be destroyed.
It is to die and it is to perish, not live forever in an
eternal BBQ. Yeah, not to live forever in an
(09:58):
internal barbecue. And that's I guess that's one
way to kind of make it sound stupid, you know, for listeners
who are on their way to hell already, you know, it's like,
oh, you don't worry, you're not going to be in eternal hell.
But let's let's kind of, you know, make it sound kind of
comical and say you're not goingto be in an internal BBQ.
(10:20):
Now. Come on now.
I don't how's that sound? But the problem is that sounds
really great, especially to itching ears.
It also sounds really great to people who don't want to get
saved. Like, oh, you mean I don't.
I don't get punished eternally, after all.
So what happens to me? Oh, I simply go to sleep and
(10:41):
never wake up. That's not too bad.
I think I'll just, I think I'll just live like the devil and
murder somebody. I mean, I've got nothing to
lose, so you know I don't. I don't quite think that's what
the Bible teaches now, does it? So what I have here is I have
several different, I think I've got 5, if we can go over them
(11:03):
all here. I have different things taken on
the Bible, different passages, and we're going to read those,
OK, and figure out what you think and.
I'm going to explain what it means in the Bible and try to
determine whether or not Mr. Cameron here has probably went
off the deep end somehow, some way.
(11:26):
OK, The very first one is in Luke 16.
It's Luke 1623 to 24, and it's the rich man in Lazarus.
OK, let me just get that pulled up here.
I have got that actually pulled up here in King James Bible.
(11:46):
And I'm just going to read directly out of here.
You know, that makes makes a little easier sometimes,
sometimes not necessarily easier.
But we know this is the truth here.
And you can follow along. This is Luke 16.
We're going to start in 19, verse 19.
It's the rich man and the beggar.
OK. So there's a certain rich man
which was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously
(12:06):
every day. And he wasn't saved, by the way.
He was not a believer. And there was a certain beggar
named Lazarus which elated his gate full of sores.
Lazarus was a believer, OK, and desiring to be fed with the
crumbs which fell from the rich man's table.
Moreover, the dogs came and licked his sores, and it came to
pass that the beggar died and was carried by the angels into
(12:29):
Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was
buried and in hell. Talking about the rich man, he
lifts up his eyes being in torments and see if Abraham afar
off and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father
Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus that he may dip the
(12:53):
tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am
tormented in this flame so but Abraham said, son, remember thou
in in thy lifetime, thou receivest thy good things and
likewise Lazarus evil things. But now he is comforted and thou
art tormented. So now right there you have an
(13:21):
example of now. Now keep in mind, this is before
Jesus Christ died, was buried, resurrected, ascended back into
heaven. So Abraham's bosom is also known
as paradise. OK, this was in the heart of the
earth. And, and in case you don't
(13:41):
understand, this is I'm going toexplain it to you.
Before Jesus Christ died on the cross, if you died, you went
into like a holding place, if you will, and that was
considered to be paradise or Abraham's bosom.
OK, you are there. You're not actually in heaven in
(14:04):
eternity yet because Jesus Christ hasn't died for your
sins, if this makes sense. So that's why the thief on the
cross with Christ, Christ said I'll see you in paradise because
he was going to go to paradise before he can go to heaven.
So the point of the matter is, is hell is there too.
(14:25):
OK, so we've got hell, we've gotparadise.
The rich man went to hell and clearly he's being tormented and
he's he's wanting Lazarus to take water and dip his finger in
in water and touch it to his tongue.
So he must be in fairly decent suffering here.
(14:47):
And but he's also conscience, you see, he, he can see who's
across the way. He can see Lazarus.
So it's not like he's just like a dead man burning.
I mean, he's. He's in his body, he has a
tongue, OK, And he can see otherpeople and he's miserable and
(15:08):
being tormented. So that's the idea of hell right
there. OK, well, this, and of course,
I'm using these as examples. OK, so we're going to go on here
to Revelation 2014. Let's say I've got Revelation 20
pulled up here, actually. Well, we're going to start a
little earlier than 14. We're going to start that.
(15:30):
Well, eleven, we're talking about the Book of Life and the
Great White Throne judgement, OK.
And this is an example of these people that are brought out of
hell and they're stood before Christ, before the Father, and
they're getting judged again, OK, Because see you you died and
you went to hell. You never technically got a
(15:53):
trial. So these people are in hell,
like, you know, saying, hey. I I never even got a.
Jury. Trial here.
So I want my day in court. Well, you're you're getting it
now. You're in hell and the white
throne judgement shows up. So like this says in in 12 here
and I saw the dead small and great stand before God and the
(16:14):
books were opened and another book was open, which is the book
of life. And the dead were judged out of
those things which were written in the books according to their
works. So these guys are getting,
they're getting judged by their works because they're not saved.
See, if you're saved, you have the blood of Jesus Christ to
cover your sins. Now your name is in the Lamb's
(16:38):
book of life, and the blood covers all of those sins.
And then God chooses to forget them.
And now there's nothing to report.
So they open the book. I don't see any sin.
It's not because you weren't a Sinner.
It's because you accepted the free gift of grace by faith,
(16:59):
see, and now your sins are covered.
But see, these guys didn't want to do that.
This is real similar to other people, my dad included, I'm
sure, and he didn't want to do that.
In fact, he actually told me once that say he didn't have the
thing to worry about because at the White Throne judgement, see
he gets a second chance and thenhe gets to state his case.
(17:19):
See he gets his day in court andthat he has a very compelling
story and you know of hardship and regret and everything else.
So his sins should be forgiven. But unfortunately that doesn't
work. The only thing you see sin
equals death. It it doesn't matter what the
(17:39):
excuse. So if you don't have the blood
of Jesus Christ to cover those sins, they're not forgiven.
You have to be punished, OK? So, and also, if you notice
here, the dead were judged out of those books, which were, and
what was written in the books according to their works,
everything you do is being written down.
(18:01):
They're in the books. You're being watched by angels,
by watchers. You're not getting away with it.
Just remember that, OK? And so the sea gave up the dead
which were in it, and Death and hell delivered up the dead which
were in them. And they were judged, every man
according to their works. Well, I know I wouldn't want to
(18:23):
be judged by my works. OK, I don't think you'd want to
be judged either. So here we go to the next one.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death. And whoever and whosoever was
not found written in the Book ofLife was cast into the lake of
Fire. I mean, that's OK.
(18:44):
So we've got Hell. You're burning in hell.
You get to get judged at the White Throne judgement.
And then of course you're going to be found guilty because your
name is not in the book of life.You're going to be judged
according to your work. So you're guilty as sin.
Guilty, guilty, guilty. OK, so now you get thrown into
the Lake of fire. So a lot of these guys are
(19:07):
saying, well, the Lake of fire, that's that's it.
That's when you get snuffed out.That's the annihilation part,
you see. You know you were in hell for
1000 years or whatever, but now you know, you get to go into the
Lake of fire, that's all. Now, if you back up here into
(19:29):
verse 10, let's see here, I believe that's what it is.
Yeah. And it says, and the devil that
deceived them was cast into the lake of fire.
So he's getting cast in the lakeof fire at the end here, same
lake of fire and the lake of fire and brimstone where the
beast and the false prophet are.And she'll be tormented day and
(19:53):
night, forever and ever. So the devil's in the lake of
fire and he's being tormented day and night, forever and ever.
So the Lake of Fire is not just.Not just something where
everything disintegrates and doesn't exist says right there
the lake of fire, you know, tormented forever and ever.
OK, let's move on to Mark Chapter 9 and we'll do.
(20:20):
Let's see here. Well, I guess verse 44, I mean
basically Jesus is talking here.If you have a a Bible where
you're the words of Christ are in red, these are in red.
This is Christ talking. And in 44 here he says he's
talking about them going to helland he says into the fire that
(20:43):
that never shall be quenched. OK where their worm dieth not
and the fire is not quenched. OK, he goes he goes down and
talks a little bit about some more.
And then in 46 he says where their worm dieth not and the
fire is not quenched. Come down the number 47 he talks
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him a little bit more about someoffenses.
And then verse 48 where their worm dieth not and the fire is
not quenched. OK, so if you have, you know, if
God says something once like in a couple verses, that's
probably, I mean, obviously it'simportant because anything God
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says in the Bible is important. Anything God says, you know, all
scripture is given by inspiration of God and it's
profitable for doctrine, for reproof, correction and
instruction in righteousness. So every word in there is good.
But if he says it twice in basically 11 little paragraph
there, maybe you should stop andthink a little bit about it.
(21:51):
But three times he says it threetimes in five verses.
It sounds to me like Jesus is trying to kind of drive home a
point. OK?
Like the point being the fire never goes out and those in it
never die. I mean, doesn't that kind of
sound like what you're trying todrive home there?
(22:15):
What he's trying to drive home and we've got, and some would
say, well, the worm dieth not. What does that mean?
Well, I've got some notes on that here too.
The worm could be referring to the person's own eternal
existence. It's so in other words, it's
never ceasing, it's never ending, not annihilated like
(22:36):
they're saying, not unconscious,eternally alive, eternally aware
and eternally suffering. So that's that's one of them.
So I've got some, I've got some other notes here on it.
So basically where the worm dieth not Jesus actually is
(22:58):
quoting Isaiah 6624 and he's talking about these people that
offended him. He says for their worm shall not
die, neither shall their fire bequenched.
She says the same thing in Isaiah.
This is a picture of corpses of those who rebelled against God.
He's talking about their rottingcorpses.
Shame, judgement and disgust before all flesh and Jesus
(23:21):
pulls. The same language into Mark 9
and applies it to hell and basically if you if you're
trying to sum this up in a few words here, the dead bodily a
dead body normally rots away worms, maggots, larvae eat the
flesh if those are the worms we're talking.
About. Eventually the worms die because
(23:43):
the body is either used up or the worms die themselves.
But here obviously Jesus is saying their worm dieth not and
the fire is not quenched. So I would say that means the
decay in the, you know, the worm, the decay never finishes.
(24:04):
It's never ending. The burning also never stops.
So you know, how, how do you getout of that?
Hey, don't worry, I'm going to be snuffed out over here in the
lake of fire and I'll just be annihilated and I won't know
nothing. That's not what that's not what
(24:25):
the Bible here is teaching. So I've got some other notes
here referring to the worm. You know which I took notes on
it. It has been described as their
worm. When I look this up, obviously
view 1 is literal maggots, theirworm, or actual worms.
(24:49):
So basically that view would saythat Jesus using the picture of
actual worms that never run out of food because the soul doesn't
cease to exist, so the state of decay in ruin never ends.
So you're conscious. Another one is that they're
(25:11):
referring to the worm is the person's own consciousness or
existence. So you can take their worm to
stand for the person themselves in their ongoing state.
So it's their worm is individually owned and personal.
(25:31):
That's that's you, it's their worm, it's their identity.
So just like the fire doesn't goout, they don't stop existing.
And one of the guys that I have followed for years, Peter
Ruckman, you know, I've, I've, I've listened to his stuff.
I've got his commentary back behind me there.
(25:54):
And a lot of his stuff he taught.
He believed that you would be basically converted into a worm.
It's like you would go down to like the lowest form of
existence and so instead of having your full blown body in
there, you would actually be condensed down to like the
lowest form of life, which wouldbe equivalent to a worm or a
(26:18):
maggot and you would live in hell as a maggot.
More or less. That's the way he said it could
be. But either way, whether you're
put down to the size of a maggotor a worm and you're suffering
for all eternity, or if you're in your body and you're getting
ate up by worms for all eternityand burning it, it's eternity.
(26:44):
It's not annihilation. So let's move on here to Matthew
25. So I've got that in my King
James Bible right here. We've got Matthew 25 and I
believe the first one here, yeah, is verse 41.
And it says then, and of course this is Jesus talking.
(27:05):
This is in red. Then shall he say unto them on
the left hand he's talking. This is about the separation of
the sheep and the goat judgment.And obviously the sheep get to
go to heaven. The goats are going to hell.
OK, That's, that's one of the judgments that's done at the end
(27:25):
of Jacob's trouble. So then shall he say unto them,
on the left hand apart. From me the ye.
Cursed into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his
angels. So that's where we get right
there. See, Hell was initially, it was,
it was designed for the devil and his angels.
(27:45):
That's what it's prepared for. He doesn't want you to go there.
It's, it's, it's for them. That's why it's everlasting.
So that that's where you're at on that one.
It's everlasting. They deserve everlasting
punishment. Now, does God want you to go
there? And no, He wants you to come to
the saving grace knowledge of Jesus Christ.
(28:06):
But not everybody's going to do it.
So obviously that's where he's going to stick you right there
in the same place prepared for the devil and his angels.
And then go on to verse 46. And of course he talks, you
know, about who's going and he says, and these shall go away
into everlasting punishment. But the righteous into life
(28:27):
eternal again, Everlasting punishment, Not punishment for a
little while. And then you get snuffed out
into annihilation and you don't have anything to worry about
that. That's not what it says.
I mean, this is this is where it's coming from.
Jesus. So now let's look at Revelation
(28:52):
14 here. I've got that pulled up here.
I've got that pulled up here in my app, my Bible app.
Just kidding, it's a Bible. Let's see Revelation 14 and
we're going to get down here to the angels messages.
Let's see verse 9. And the third Angel followed
(29:13):
them, saying with a loud voice, if any man worship the beast and
his image and receive his mark in his forehead or in his hand,
the same shall drink of the wineof the wrath of God which is
poured out. Oops, how do I say which is
poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation and
(29:38):
he the person who took the mark of the beast.
So that's what we're talking about here.
So if you're living in in Jacob's trouble or the time of
tribulation, 3 1/2 years into it, when Antichrist reveals
himself and reveals this mark and you take it so you can buy
and sell, you're non redeemable.At that point you will be
(30:02):
burning in hell. And for how long?
We'll let's see. And he shall be tormented with
fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and
in the presence of the Lamb, in the smoke of their torment
ascendeth up forever and ever. And they have no rest, day nor
night. Who worship the beast in his
(30:23):
image, and who, who, and whosoever receiveth the mark of
his name, they're going to the same place forever and ever, no
rest day or night. That doesn't sound anything like
annihilation to me. That sounds like turn or you're
(30:45):
going to burn. And I mean burn, baby.
You ain't getting away with it. So, so, you know, I really don't
know what Kirk Cameron's trying to trying to pull here.
I really don't. Let's see what the rest of my
notes here say. As you know, I'm getting old
(31:09):
trying to remember everything and take all the notes and say
it and trying to not say OK as much because apparently I say
that a lot and I keep catching myself saying it and apparently
I clear my throat a lot too, trying to stop doing that.
You know, there's I've got guys telling me you should take a
drink of water. What I do drink water.
You know, I even take cough drops.
(31:32):
But it's like I was telling the guy on the comments, it's like
this, the moment I get in front of this microphone right here,
my throat locks up. I won't, I won't clear my throat
all day long. But as soon as I sit here, I've
got to clear my throat. So now I'm going to start using
the pause and the edit function on this thing a little more.
I'm starting to learn a little more so you don't have to listen
(31:56):
to as much malarkey. OK, So what do we make of Kirk
Cameron's claims? Basically, for 30 years old,
Kirk Cameron is professed to be a Bible believing Christian.
And obviously we hope he is. We hope everybody is.
(32:16):
But for some reason, and when someone like Kirk here, he
starts adopting doctrines long taught by Jehovah's Witnesses
and 7th Day Adventists, doctrines that clearly
contradict Scripture in every turn.
There is no such thing as annihilation.
(32:37):
It is not mentioned. There is never anything ever
mentioned that would even lead you to believe that other than
guys like this saying, well, God's just so great.
God just loves you so much. He wouldn't do that to you.
He wouldn't do no such of a thing that is not in the Bible.
That's wishful thinking. So anybody that teaches this
(33:01):
kind of stuff that clearly contradicts Scripture, I would
say you have to be cautious of anything else they say.
So when a person turns away fromyour foundational doctrines, you
know, there are lots of foundational doctrines like
Christ to be saved, once saved, always saved.
(33:24):
That's a good one. That's a foundation and I'll
talk about that here soon, but or a minute, but you start
turning away from those foundational doctrines.
You then you must compare everything they say from that
point on with the word of God. Don't get that confused with
(33:46):
their personality of their reputation, their sincerity or
their popularity. See, because, oh, Kirk, he's a
popular guy, movie star, and youknow, he starts off strong and
is actually talking about what the Bible says.
(34:06):
Now all the sudden we're doing aflip flop.
So what are we now? Jehovah's Witness?
You know, we're Jehovah's Witnesses teach that Jesus is
not God. He's he's a lesser God.
He's a demigod. In fact, they teach that he's
Lucifer's brother. They're brothers.
They were both created and so Jesus, at any point he can just
(34:29):
get up and walk away and say. I'm out of here.
That's what they teach. They don't believe in the
Godhead. 3 in 1/3 parts. Not three persons, three parts
of the same being. You see, you have God.
(34:49):
He has three parts. He has the Spirit, the Holy
Spirit, He has the soul, which is God the Father, and he has
the body, which is Jesus Christ.Just as we have a body, a spirit
and a soul. Ours are all connected.
At the moment when we die, they separate out.
(35:11):
Our body goes to the grave, our soul goes to heaven, our spirit
goes back to the Father because he's the one that supplied it.
God, He's a triune being. He has the three parts, but He
can separate His at will. We don't understand that.
I don't expect you to understandthat.
(35:32):
I don't understand that. I can't do it.
You can't do it. Our minds can't comprehend it.
OK, but that is what the Bible teaches, OK?
In the beginning was the Word, the Word was Jesus Christ, the
Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Later on, the Word became flesh and dwelt among us as a man,
(35:56):
Jesus Christ. So see, that's what the Bible
teaches. That is a foundational doctrine.
And I, I know a person, they went to a counselor here
recently, and it's a woman counselor.
And yeah, I don't know if she's a preacher or a pastor or what,
Which if she is, she shouldn't be.
(36:17):
She's supposedly a healer of some type, which I don't
necessarily believe is biblical either.
But the very first thing apparently out of her mouth is,
oh, by the way, there's no such thing as once saved, always
saved. You're saved by works.
So, you know, right off the bat,a lot of these people, they try,
they try to get you so screwed up.
(36:38):
They try to get you lost. I, I don't know why.
I mean, I, I'm trying to figure out and I, I would have to ask
this person this question. What do you think you can do
better than Jesus Christ? What exactly do you have that
God's so interested in that Jesus Christ dying on the cross,
(37:04):
an innocent victim shedding his blood for you to get your name
written into a lamb's book of life?
What can you do more than that is my question, because
apparently that's not enough. That's not enough.
We need more. We need you to do something now.
(37:26):
So what are you going to do for me?
What are you going to do for God?
I mean, because it's by works now.
You're not saved by grace alone.Oh no, God's grace is what's
saving. You, you need to do something.
So I guess you need to be good, don't you?
Say a cuss word because come on.Seriously, if that was the case,
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nobody would be saved because your works aren't good enough.
That's why right back here in Revelation at the White Throne
judgement, the ones that didn't have the blood of Jesus Christ,
they will be judged by their works.
Your works are not going to cut it.
(38:11):
You're never going to be good enough.
Your righteousness is like dirty, filthy rags to God.
Don't you understand that? No, we don't understand that.
See, Jesus Christ, he's just notquite good enough.
We're going to do better. Really.
(38:32):
How so? You're going to do better than
God himself made flesh and dwelled among men and died for
your sins. And give me a break.
It's stupid, but that's what we have people teaching.
Those are your false teachers. And they tell that to people
(38:53):
with itching ears. See, instead of telling you the
truth, that listen, if you don'tget saved before you drop dead,
you are going to burn in hell and you're going to be in hell.
For at least 1000 years. Because the White throne
judgement comes at the end of Jesus Christ Millennial reign.
(39:15):
A millennial millennial is 1000 years.
So while he's raining on earth for 1000 years, you'll be
burning in hell. Where the worm dieth not your
worm dieth not OK. Torture, suffering, fire and
brimstone. So that's where you'll be for at
(39:36):
least 1000 years. It's not like you're going to
die and go to hell like right now.
And excuse me, sorry about that.You're.
Not going to die and go to hell and somehow be up in front of
the throne like in in a day, a week, a month.
Because see, the white throne judgement doesn't happen until
(39:58):
the end of the Christ millennialreign.
That's not for 1000 years. Because because he hasn't, he
hasn't showed up yet. We haven't started that time
frame yet. That dispensation isn't here
yet. Now, if you were living in the
millennial Kingdom, I guess, andyou somehow died on day 900 or
(40:23):
year 999.9, and somehow during that time you weren't saved
because obviously there are people that aren't because they
turn against Christ at the end, during, you know, when Satan is
released in Satan's little season, they turn against
Christ. So apparently they're not saved.
They, they did. They're still not accepting it
even though they're alive. So I guess if you died in the
(40:45):
millennial Kingdom in year 999.9, you would only have a
very short time before boom, you're right back up to the
white Throne judgement. So you're like, oh, I'm I only
had to be in hell for three days.
Well, then that's an exception. But that's not going to happen
(41:06):
right now because we ain't anywhere near.
I mean, we may be getting close,but we've still got Jacob's
trouble of seven years to go through.
Somebody does before we even getto the thousand year reign of
Christ. So as of right now, if you died
today and went to hell and Jacob's trouble started
(41:29):
tomorrow, you would be in. Hell, for one. 1007 years
minimum. Then you're going to wake up.
You're going to stand before theWhite Throne.
All the books are going to be opened of everything you've ever
done, which is going to be probably enough to make most
people's hair turn white. OK, wow, nobody's going to
(41:51):
believe it. And then you're going to stand
up there. What?
And try to justify yourself. Well, the next thing is, OK, OK,
we OK, let's hear your arguments.
I'm maybe you'll get to do an argument.
I mean, it'll be, I guess, comical.
I mean, the people standing around up there that are saved
and the angels and stuff, they're going to be like, oh
(42:12):
boy, here we go again. Another one that's like, Oh,
well, you know, blah, blah, blah.
OK, OK, well, we got to hear it all.
Now here's the most important part.
Let's open up the Lamb's book oflife.
Is your name written in it? Because if it is, hey, right
into heaven, baby. But if it's not, well, you're
(42:36):
going to burn. You're going to burn.
We're going to cast you right into the lake of fire forever
and ever. That's what the Bible teaches
where the smoke of the torment rises forever and ever.
So it doesn't sound to me like it's going away anytime soon,
does it? Don't sound like it sounds like
(42:59):
somewhere you're going to be burning.
So I think that like this Kirk Cameron deal, it's like, it's
like, it's like, oh, Peter Ruckman used to put it.
Anytime you hear anybody trying to air condition hell, that's
because they're on their way there.
That's the only people that thatthat want to take away from hell
(43:22):
and. Oh, it's not that bad.
It's not that bad. Oh well, even if you, even if
you. Did burn just for a little bit?
It's it's really not that bad, in fact.
Then right after that, you'll just be snuffed out.
You won't even know what happened.
Like you never existed. But that's just not what the
Bible teaches, is it? That's made-up.
That's a fairy tale. So why don't we just.
(43:44):
I mean, if you're going to make up a big fat fairy tale like.
That why even believe what the Bible says to begin.
With just say, oh, there's no hell.
Isn't that what atheists and allthem do?
I don't believe this book right here.
So there's no hell, there's no God, there's no devils.
I don't have anything to worry about.
I can do whatever I want. I'm my own God.
(44:05):
Isn't that what they believe? And I get to do whatever I want.
Do as thou wilt is the whole of the law.
Isn't that what the Satanists say?
So I mean, you know, so, so anyway, I don't know what Kirk's
deal is. I have no idea.
But there's, I mean, you just Google it, go on to YouTube and
check it out. You can see all the videos for
(44:26):
yourself. All kinds of people are making
comments about it because it's not scriptural and he's supposed
to be a Christian. So he's he's going against, you
know, established doctrine. This, this a fact that you can
read it in black and white. I get we can chapter and verse
it. I mean, it's right here.
(44:49):
So I don't know what the guy's thinking.
Again, he's from Hollywood. He's big and popular.
I don't. I've always thought that, you
know, you can't get into a position like that and be saved.
That's what I've that's what I believe.
(45:09):
Maybe he is. I don't really know.
Can you be a movie star and be saved?
It's hard for me to believe. I don't know their heart, but it
I don't believe it. I just don't believe it.
Now, this guy here supposedly got out of Hollywood, but he's
still in a lot of movies. Who's producing those movies?
(45:33):
Isn't it still Hollywood? Somebody's producing them.
And now once we get big super back and popular again and we're
all the Christian movies. So now we've got all the
Christians watching you and all.He's a good guy.
That's a good guy. Now let's flip the script and
start saying stuff that's not true, you know, trying to tell
(45:56):
people it's OK. So I guess his message to
unbelievers is don't worry aboutgetting saved because you know,
hey, God's going to snuff you out.
You're not going to suffer. Just ask a Jehovah's Witness,
they'll tell you. That's why they're not worried
about anything. I'll get a second chance up
there at the White Throne judgement.
I'll get to state my case. And even if I don't, well, I'm
(46:17):
just annihilated anyway. I'll just get snuffed out.
I don't even know. I don't even know I wasn't
there. I don't feel anything.
I don't care. Therefore, why do I have to
worry about it? Maybe I don't want to go to
heaven and have to serve up in heaven.
You know, I'd just rather be snuffed out.
I won't remember a thing. Don't feel anything.
(46:37):
That's what they believe, but they that's not what the Bible
teaches. And of course, the Jehovah's
Witnesses, you know, they had torewrite the Bible.
They've got their own Bible, theNew World Translation, based off
of perverted Catholic Bible. So their Bible could say
anything. I don't, you know, I know that
it, I know that it denies Christ, the deity of Christ.
(46:58):
I know that. That's why they're not witnesses
for Christ. They're Jehovah's Witnesses.
They, they don't care anything about Christ.
There's like, who's that? Oh, that Angel like guy or
something that God created. Oh, we don't need him.
We've got Jehovah. But you know, they don't believe
(47:18):
it when Christ says no man gets to the Father, but through me
you have to accept him and his shit.
They don't believe that So so now Kirk here he's he's going to
start pushing Jehovah's Witnesses stuff on us.
So I. I don't know.
I don't sound very legitimate tome so but you be the judge.
You be the judge on that I I presented to you what I think
(47:42):
You let me know what you think. Anyway, I'm going to wrap this
thing up. Thanks for listening.
Let's see here if I've got my deal here.
Remember I have got Flat Earth Bible if you're interested.
I wish there was some way I could do a sale on that for
Christmas. I mean, I need to get on Amazon
and see maybe there is maybe there's some kind of deal I can
(48:02):
do for Christmas for that. But anyway, it's on it's on
Amazon if you're interested. Just go check that out.
As always, like I said, I'm on Spotify.
The kills debt chronicles by Doctor Kenny Williamson.
If you if you check that out, please like it, share it, the
whole 9 yards because it's it's one of those deals.
(48:23):
It's hard to get anything out there.
It's hard to beat their little algorithms so people can
actually find the show. So if you're interested or you
get to it, please like it and let's see here.
I've also got YouTube. YouTube is slowly growing.
It's up to like 202 hundred people now, which is basically
nothing but I've literally been on YouTube for many, many years.
(48:46):
So anyway, hopefully it'll it'llgrow too.
But if you if you're on there, please subscribe it, subscribe
to it like it. And I'm also on Rumble as Kenny
Williamson official and it's gotmy old logo on there.
I'm still using that logo. But anyway, so it's on there.
So all this stuff is available anytime anyplace.
(49:07):
You can listen video, you can watch video or you can do audio
only. So thanks for listening.
Be sure and check out our websites too.
I'm going to get those up here. I've got it's flatrow.com and
truth seekers ministry.org and there's actually a new link at
the very bottom of I believe on the truth Seekers website.
(49:31):
There's a new link down there. It's called a sponsorship and
what that is, if you had a business like an online business
of some kind, like you sold, I don't know what Bibles, guns,
whatever, something that's in line with what I teach and what
we believe at Truth Seekers. If you wanted your name
mentioned, your business mentioned, a picture of your
(49:55):
business or a link to it, we could do like a little
advertisement for you of like minded people.
It has to be that. It can't be anything like
something stupid, OK, Anyway, socheck that out if if you're
interested. And the only reason I put that
up there is because I'm not, I don't monetize anything and you
(50:16):
know, everything cost a fortune.So I guess I have a job.
I pay for everything with my ownmoney.
But if you're interested and if you had something like that, we
could, you could send me something and we could do your
advertisement or something like that.
We could put it on the website or we could do it on the
podcast. Just something, just something
to think about if you're interested.
If not, no big deal. Everything's still for free.
(50:38):
Thanks again for listening and until we meet again.
God bless you.
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