Effective Reading Instruction for Multilingual Learners (And Why It Works for Everyone)

Episode Transcript
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Lori (00:00):
Did you know that 5.3 million students are English
learners in the United States?
Teaching reading can be trickywhen students are just learning
the English language.

Melissa (00:10):
Today we're unpacking two key skills for reading
comprehension word recognitionand language comprehension
Experts Antonio Fierro and GabiBell Jimenez will share research
about the best ways to teachthese skills to English learners
.

Lori (00:26):
Hi teacher friends.
I'm Lori and I'm Melissa.
We are two educators who wantthe best for all kids, and we
know you do too.

Melissa (00:36):
We worked together in Baltimore when the district
adopted a new literacycurriculum.

Lori (00:41):
We realized there was so much more to learn about how to
teach reading and writing.

Melissa (00:46):
Lori, and I can't wait to keep learning with you today.

Lori (00:51):
Hi Gabi and Antonio, Welcome to the podcast.
We are thrilled to have youhere today.

Gabi Bell Jimenez (00:58):
Thank you so much for having us.

Antonio Fierro (01:00):
Thank you, it's really, it's so much fun.
I mean, I've heard so much,we've heard so much about
Melissa and Lori and all yourpodcasts, and to be on it it's
just, it's a pleasure, thank you, and an honor.
Thank you for having us.

Melissa (01:12):
Absolutely, and we've been seeing you all at
conferences.
So we're so excited to actuallyhave you here today and we're
going to start by talking aboutthe simple view of reading,
which I think most of ourlisteners are probably pretty
familiar with.
The simple view of reading,which I think most of our
listeners are probably prettyfamiliar with.
But you know, the simple viewof reading tells us that reading
comprehension comes from bothword recognition and language

(01:32):
comprehension.
But we're wondering, with thetwo of you we want to talk about
, how does this all play out forEnglish learners and, you know,
how does their languageproficiency impact those two big
pieces of reading?

Right, right, let me start off by really
looking at this question alittle bit deeper.
Before we get started, though,let me just one quick caveat.
Just a super quick caveat, andthen we'll get to that question.
Super quick caveat, and thenwe'll get to that question.

(02:08):
So my colleague Gabi and I willbe addressing this topic and
we'll be using the term Englishlearner right, and just want to
go ahead and just mention veryquickly that we're taking a look
at this term based on what theEvery Student Succeeds Act of
2015 also states, that anEnglish learner is any student
whose primary language is notEnglish, whose English skills

(02:33):
are not sufficient to besuccessful in the classroom and
who has not yet testedproficient in English.
The reason we want to bring thisup real quick is because there
are many terms that are beingused out in the field, like
multilingual learner, emergentbilingual, and we don't want to
step on anybody's toes and think, oh, we're not addressing these

(02:54):
issues.
It just, basically, is astudent who is, like the
definition states, is still notproficient in English.
Now, a multilingual learner maybe a student, for example, who
is in a program that isEnglish-speaking and is learning

(03:16):
, for example, another languagelike Spanish or a Native
American language as well, orwhatever the case might be, but
the issues are very, or thechallenges really are very, very
similar.
But we really are looking atthe English learner period.
Who is just not proficient inEnglish as of yet, zach?
Am I okay with that, Gabi?

Absolutely.
Clarity is love and we want tobe absolutely certain that we
are really thinking about ourbabies, who are home speakers of
a language other than Englishand are going to school and
acquiring content and languageAbsolutely.

Which brings up, then again, going back to your
question, melissa, about thesimple view of reading and
realizing that when we take alook at those two domains of
word recognition and languagecomprehension, they also apply.
They apply across the board.
I mean, let's not kid ourselves, they apply across the board.

(04:14):
So I need, I need to be able toidentify those individual sound
units, those speech segments ofsound, uh, in words, and then
identify and make that, thatcorrespondence obviously to, to
the grapheme or to whatever the,the symbol may be that
represents that sound.

(04:35):
Well, you know, in analphabetic language we're
talking about a grapheme, and inenglish, definitely, uh, a
grapheme, uh, because you know,when we're talking about
graphemes, we're talking up towhat four individual or four
letters that can represent asound.
So you know, when we're talkingabout graphemes, we're talking
up to what four individual orfour letters that can represent
a sound.
So, just, you know.
So, realizing that, that wehave to make that connection as
a foundation and also realizing,just like, like my colleague

(04:57):
Gabi mentioned, you know, whatabout content and what about
vocabulary, what aboutcomprehension.
Yes, absolutely, that iscrucial, that is crucial across
the board, and there has justbeen just too many
misconceptions ormisunderstandings.
Right about what is needed forthe English learner line is that

(05:25):
the English learner also needsto be able to make those
connections at a veryfoundational area, that
connection between that phonemeand that graphing, and then
still pick up vocabulary andcontent knowledge that it's also
going to be delivered.
So it's absolutely necessaryand our research has found that.
I mean, was it back in 2006when the National Literacy Panel
on Language, minority Childrenand Youth was published?

(05:48):
I invite our listeners to takea look at the executive summary.
It's about a 13-page executivesummary of the report and in
that report it states also thatour English learners also need
those basic foundations ofphonics, phonemic awareness,
vocabulary, comprehension andfluency.

(06:09):
And not a but, and and this istaken strictly or straight from
the report and theaccommodations, which we are
going to call the amplificationsor the scaffolds.
We really love amplifications.
You know what?
I'm not even going to own thatterm.
I'll give my colleague, Gabithe credit for that because it

(06:34):
really makes sense.
How do we amplify this learning?
And it is a scaffold, but ittakes more than that.
It takes language.
So the accommodations, as I wassaying, are those scaffolds,
those amplifications.
All right.
So the simple view of readingis just as necessary.

(06:55):
I mean, it also is about theEnglish learner, the key, not a
but, and.
And we have to embed languagelanguage development within the
teaching of these skills.
So it's it's a two-prongapproach we're teaching the

(07:18):
skill and we are, we have tosupport it with language.
We have to support it with thatlevel of oracy.
All right, that is extremely,that's important.
All right, because I am havingto learn the language.
So our English learners aredoing double the cognitive work.
All right, they're doing doublethe cognitive work.

(07:41):
So we're having to and I say webecause my colleague Gabi and I
, we're both English learners.
All right, so we have to belearning right.
We have to be learning thesenew terms right.
We have to learn thisvocabulary, develop
comprehension right,comprehension right and at the

(08:10):
same time, you know, learn howthis language works and the
explicitness that is needed toteach our students how this
language works.
And we have been saying thisreally for years.
And I go back to the reportfrom the National Literacy Panel
on Language, minority, childrenand Youth.
Try saying that 10 times, realfast.
That's a real tongue twister,because even and most

(08:35):
importantly in this report, italso states the importance of
oral language oracy.
This was published almost 20years ago, but our take on this
is that maybe 20 years ago wejust weren't ready as a field to

(08:55):
really internalize thesefindings.
We did not understand thebasics of reading.
We were on the verge, right.
So the psychology of reading iswhat I received my training
under.
So I'm very happy that I spent20 years working with Louisa

(09:16):
Motz I still call her my teacher, my mentor and being taught
about the psychology of reading.
That really just got recoinedor re-identified, you know.
I mean now to the science ofreading, all right, so it's
important to understand allthese areas of language.
And how do we embed that,especially for our English

(09:38):
learners?
That is crucial.
That is absolutely crucial.
Let me also mention just oneother thing.
When we're talking aboutEnglish learners, we have oral
language development.
That is the foundation, right,that's the foundation as we
build on these skills.
So as we are building phonemicawareness, right, and we are

(10:02):
identifying, we're segmenting,for example, or isolating
perhaps the first phoneme in aword, or segmenting the word
into phonemes.
That's the skill.
Now, how do we embed language inthere?
How do we have you know, how dowe explain or we have to
explain what does this word mean, because I may not own it, I

(10:24):
may never heard it before, I'venever heard it before.
So this this weekend, this weekand this past week actually, I
did some work outside of NewYork City and was introduced to
jetty, to the word jetty, whichis those you know, the, the, the
, the boulders that that areplaced along the beach for lack

(10:46):
of erosion.
Right, I had never heard thatword before.
All right, so I can have thatword introduced to me, I can
break it down into phonemes.
But when I say jetty, I thinkof an airplane, I think of
something up in the air.
All right, so can you see howthat affects comprehension as
well?
All right, this is a completelynew word for me.

(11:08):
Well, I live out in the desert.

Lori (11:09):
All right, I was going to say you know you're not in that
part of the area.
Yeah, exactly.

I had no idea what that was.
All right.
So now, so if I am told, youknow, let's go ahead and break
it down.
You know, break down the wordinto phonemes, identify those
phonographing correspondences.
It would be very beneficial.
I mean, I had to say it severaltimes oh a jetty, wow, jetty, a
jetty, all right, and then youknow define what a jetty is,

(11:37):
because if I hear the word jettyagain, I'm thinking something's
up in the air year, becauseI've never seen, I never heard
that term before.
It was just amazing.
It just brings us back, ithumbles you, it humbled me
because it's like well, this iswhat our students go through.
They don't, they don't neverheard the word before.
Now think about having thisover and over and over and over

(12:00):
and over again, and hownecessary it was for me to see
this jetty, to step on thisjetty, although I didn't go on
the jetty because there weresigns all over the place that
said stay off the jetty, dude,stay off the jetty.
So going back here and thinkingabout oral oral language is the
foundation.
Now here's a, a hugemisconception.

(12:23):
Well, before I I get to that, Ialso want to say, and I think
my colleague Gabi will agreewith me.
Working with English learners,as with all students, we have to
have we as educators have tohave this knowledge base of how
language works.
Knowledge base of how languageworks, all right.
When I first started as ateacher, I was a bilingual

(12:54):
teacher.
I taught English and Spanish,but we had this umbrella term
for all our English learners andeverybody fell under this neat
little umbrella.
And so give yourself some grace, colleagues.
Working with English learnersmeans two things you really have
to have a large, a strongknowledge base of how language
works and also realize that forour English learners there's a
huge, there's a wide variabilityof the linguistic repertoire

(13:17):
that children bring with themwhen they attend school.
I mean, there's thisvariability having to do with
age.
I mean there's this variabilityhaving to do with age.
Right, experiences, right, youknow the similarity and
comparisons between languages aswell.
You know their own experiencewith literacy.
You know, do they have literacyskills in their home language?

(13:40):
And if so, you know some ofthose will transfer.
But let's not over-romanticizethe concept.

(14:01):
There will also be somecognitive disson may not appear
in certain positions in words.
So now I have to be explicitlytaught, explain how this sound
works, this phoneme works in thefinal position, for example, of
words, and I've done a lot ofwork in that area comparison

(14:22):
between English and Spanish.
But let's not get into thatarea right now.
Let's talk about language.
And here's a misconception.
All right, I have oracy, I haveoral language, right, that
consists of three neat littledomains the rules of language,
the meaning of language and thepragmatics of language.

(14:44):
All right, I'll repeat that therules of language, the meaning
of language and the pragmaticsof language.
So, as I'm developing theseskills, I'm talking about those
three domains.
So let me just go over thisjust super quick, and then we'll
go on to the next topic.

(15:04):
So, rules of language Everylanguage has its own phonology,
its own series of phonemes andhow those phonemes can be
arranged and articulated.
All right.
So a perfect example English.
For the most part, you know, weagree, that there are 44
phonemes in the English language, right?

(15:25):
But Spanish, for example, whereI do most of my comparisons, or
all my comparisons, just mostof my comparisons has half as
many.
So we have to respect theselanguage systems of not only the
home language, but definitelyEnglish.
And how does that work?

(15:46):
So let me go back.
So, rules of language we'retalking about the phonology,
we're talking about themorphology and syntax, all right
.
So for rules or theorganization of language, every
language has its phonology, itsmorphology and its syntax, all
right.
So how are these words arrangedto make these sentences?
Right?

(16:07):
Now let me go to the seconddomain, the meaning of language,
and this is where we're talkingabout vocabulary, the meaning
of words and my ability to usethese words.
But it also includes semantics,more as a broader topic, right?
Semantics, which is therelationship and the proper
sequence of words very closelyrelated to syntax, right?

(16:29):
So how are these words relatedto each other, for example?
And then that transfers over tosyntax.
So I have the rules of language, phonology, morphology, syntax.
I have the meaning of language,vocabulary and semantics.
I have the meaning of language,vocabulary and semantics.
And then I have pragmatics,which is the use of the language

(16:51):
, all right.
So that includes, you know,social skills, matching language
to situations, conversation,storytelling, the ability to use
the language.
One of the things that mycolleague and I, Gabi and I,
look at when we are, or look foris when we are invited to do
visits is how much language isgoing on in the classroom.
There has to be language andthis sounds very cheesy, and

(17:15):
we've said this, I mean, I'vesaid this for many, many years.
You know, a chatty classroom isa learning classroom, all right
.
Learning classroom, right.
And in a conference, in asession that my colleague Gabi
and I did, she mentions about,you know, the one doing the
talking is doing the thinking,and I thought that's brilliant,
absolutely, the one doing thetalking is doing the thinking.

(17:36):
So lots of opportunities forthat discussion to occur.
Now here's the kicker here.
So I said oral language, right.
Oral language, rules oflanguage, the meaning of
language, the pragmatics oflanguage, again, the rules of
language, phonology, morphology,syntax Listen carefully,

(17:57):
because there's one languagesystem that's missing, all right
.
So rules of language, phonology, morphology, syntax, the
meaning of language,vocabularyology, morphology,
syntax, the meaning of language,vocabulary and semantics Right.
And the pragmatics of language,which is the use, right.
What is missing when we'retalking about the language
systems, orthography, thewritten component.

(18:19):
And here is our, ourunderstanding here.
Here's the deal.
That, that, that why?
Why my colleague Gabi and Ihave really worked well together
?
Because we understand theimportance of, yes, building
oral language as a foundationthat's going to get us to what?
To written language, that getsus to really reading and writing

(18:41):
.
And many times what we see,colleagues, is that we are
developing language and we havethis misconception that, as
we're developing language andthat was me very you know, when
I did not understand linguisticsor did not understand language
period that as I'm developinglanguage, the misconception is

(19:02):
that as I'm developing language,I'm also developing literacy
skills, and that's not true.
Language oracy is one thing.
It serves a purpose, though.
I need that as a foundation.
I need that so that I can startmaking that connection to the
written component, right, sothat, so I can read and write.

(19:24):
I need that, and so mycolleague, Gabi, and I were
talking about this not long agoand realizing that I do not have
to, right, Gabi, I do not haveto develop, I do not have to
have language proficiency, I donot have to master.
I mean, when do we masterlanguage anyway?

(19:44):
Right?
I mean seriously.
You know, I've been workingaround language for 30 years and
I had no idea what the heck ajetty was, you know.
And so, and there was anotherword that I learned yesterday
that I can't remember nowbecause I didn't use it, I did
not say it enough, I didn't useit enough, so now it's gone.
All I know is it with an I.
All right, but anyway so.

(20:09):
So here's the deal.
I, as I'm developing language,I'm using language to develop
literacy.
All right, I do not have to, Iabsolutely do not have to master
, I do not have to have a highlevel of proficiency.
I am building my level ofproficiency orally and I'm using
that to also develop what myliteracy skills and those work

(20:34):
together.
It's easier said than done, butit actually is not that hard,
because when you are aware thatI need to have Gabi speak, for
example, or I need to haveAntonio speak or Lori speak or
Melissa, I mean this is good,good instruction period.
You know, we had this view orwe had this understanding of

(20:55):
language 10 years ago or so.
It was really making its wayand its understanding and its
influence on overall literacy.
But I don't think as a field,we were ready to understand that
and I think now we really areand realizing now that I mean
there's so many colleagues whoare doing some wonderful work

(21:15):
with language development, andnot just for English learners
but across the board, but weknow that it's just so
incredibly important as we aredeveloping these skills.

Lori (21:27):
Oh my gosh.
So much there.
That was like the biggest, bestintro I think we've ever had on
this podcast.
I don't know about that butthank you.

I think we've ever had on this podcast.
I don't know about that, butthank you.

Lori (21:36):
No, that was great Like you really set the stage, and I
want to turn it to Gabi, becauseI feel like we both were doing
a lot of nodding.
Melissa was nodding, so isthere anything that you'd like
to add on, to extend anythingthat Antonio said that really
resonated and you just want tothink a little bit more about or
speak a little bit more about.

Absolutely.
I think that it is worthwhilefor us to double down on that
very important nugget that wemust not wait for English
learners to acquire a specificlevel of English proficiency
before we introduce literacyRight.
We cannot, we must not, and thatis not the way in which

(22:20):
language is naturally acquiredor literacy is naturally
acquired.
So if you have a five-year-oldthat is brand new to US schools
whose home language is otherthan English, you don't need to
keep that baby hostage untilthat baby knows absolutely every
letter, name and letter sound.

(22:41):
The fact of the matter is, ifthat baby knows one sure vowel
and two consonants, you'recooking, you're cooking.
You're cooking because you canstart working with CVCs, right,
and it makes sense for thoseCVdcs to come support it right,
like teach the baby what is aword and show them what the word

(23:05):
is and have utility for theword.
And then two days later youintroduce a second shirvawal and
another consonant and you'rejust cooking more exotic dishes.
But we must not hold our kidshostage to these imaginary
thresholds connected to languageto acquire literacy.
The fact of the matter is thatwe cannot talk about nothing.

(23:29):
We cannot learn about nothing.
Language is connected naturallyto content, so let's use the
content and the six and a halfhours that we have the privilege
of having our kiddos at schoolto use the content as the
leverage to learn literacy andlearn language.

So hashtag, cooking, hashtag, exotic dishes,
right.

Exotic dishes right.

Exotic dishes, yes.
And let me add just one morething, and be mindful also of
this wide variability, becausewe also have English learners
who are newcomers at the middleschool and high school level and
my colleague and I have beenwriting about that as well and

(24:17):
be able to.
In this case, you can reallytake a look and use the
experiences that that childmight have, all right, and the
linguistic repertoire that thechild already possesses to make
these transfers, especially ifthey are older.
The challenge, and I'll behonest with you, is that when my
colleague Gabi talks aboutthese babies and these young
kids who are coming in asnewcomers, you know what they're

(24:40):
not as hesitant to try thelanguage, to experiment with the
language, to overgeneralizewith the language, they're going
to do it all right.
The issue is that they don'thave too many experiences to
draw from.
On the flip side, ouradolescent newcomer, for example
, might have more experiences todraw from.

(25:01):
The challenge is that you knowhe or she is older and we also
want to belong right, we alsowant to be accepted to this
social group of youngsters oradolescents.
So maybe a little bit morehesitant to try the language, to

(25:22):
experiment with the language,to overgeneralize with the
language, and it's up to us toprovide an environment where the
student, especially adolescent,feels safe, right, feels secure
, which means that also, thenhis or her peers must also be
mindful of that level of respectand that level of compassion,

(25:46):
for example, that they are.
Also, they're learning, and whynot have our English learner,
especially an adolescent, teachus some words from his or her
home language?
So you see what I mean byvariability.
I mean the challenges and theskills that need to be taught

(26:06):
for youngsters is going to benot different.
They have to be differentiated,especially for our adolescents.
The bottom line and this is mytheory, only, this is Antonio's
theory is the reason we havelong-term English learners is
that they have failed or we havenot done a good enough job of

(26:32):
making that connection betweenoracy and written language right
.
That bridge is still not solid,and this is what happens a lot.
We have that English learnerwho is just outgoing, who, you
know, really starts using thelanguage and feels darn good,
right, ah, but then, when itcomes to reading and writing,

(26:54):
that's a different story, andwhat they have done is that they
have kind of fooled us intothinking oh, I really and I've
said this.
I think that there are many,many, many, many, many, many
individuals who arelinguistically gifted.
They hear the language, theyhave the ability to use the
language and they're off andrunning.
They're off and running, butand there is well not above it

(27:20):
and now they need explicitinstruction to learn how the
language is actually written andrepresented.

Lori (27:23):
So they can read and write For sure.
Yeah, I think that that's soimportant.
And what you're making me thinkabout is the idea of really
frequent practice, right, Likethis idea of not just teach,
teach, teach, Like you both justgot at that point where we're
teaching something explicitlyand then we're providing time
for that very purposefulpractice and we're going back

(27:44):
and forth a lot in that.
So, for example, Gabi, you gavethat example with the CVC words
and you could get them cooking,which means they could be
reading and writing and buildingcontext, all three of ways,
right, Like orally reading andwritten for those CVC words.
But we need to do that kind ofimmediately.

(28:07):
It's not like we're teachingall of the letter sounds and
then going back and buildingthose CVC words.
It's just that's not even howwe teach best practice for
phonics instruction, scope andsequences.
But I love the idea of thatfrequent practice, of making
sure that we're kind of goingback and forth.
Melissa and I a lot of times onour podcast we do a lot of

(28:28):
sports analogies and you'remaking me think about my
daughter right now.
She's never played lacrossebefore and she's 13.
So she's like Antonio, thatdaughter right now.
She's never played lacrossebefore and she's 13.
So she's that like Antonio,that like middle school learner
right New learner and she'slearning how to play lacrosse.
Well, she's not.

(28:50):
We're not going to wait to getinto a game to practice, to like
be the first time that wecradle, or you know, we're doing
a lot of explicit instructionbeforehand and then then she's
going to go practice in the gameand then there's going to be
more explicit instruction, Thenshe's going to go play another
game, back and forth.
So I think sports kind ofilluminates that back and forth
really clearly for us and howthat goes.
I just think that's soimportant that we're giving our
students that frequent practicein between those instructional

(29:13):
bursts.

I know nothing about sports, but I
would say that at the linguisticlevel, it is of critical
importance, especially forlanguage learners, that we are
taking special care in designinginstructional opportunities
that elicit productive languageright.

(29:36):
So we want a lot of speakingand we want tons and tons and
tons of writing.
It is important for us toengage in receptive skills.
As an almost an adult Englishlanguage learner, I was almost
18 when I started on my journeyof learning English, so this
accent is absolutely andcompletely authentic.
I will never be able to doanything with it other than

(30:00):
flaunt it.
It required a lot ofexperiences to be able to engage
in safe opportunities to usethe language.
My reading skills will alwaysbe at a higher level than my
writing skills.
My listening skills will alwaysbe at a higher level than my

(30:22):
speaking, and because of thatintention, I close in the gap by
creating those opportunities.
It's fundamental.
I would say that it's importantfor children, but it's of
critical importance for languagelearners.

Melissa (30:33):
Okay.
So one thing that I hear a lot,and I'm sure a lot of teachers
do when we're talking aboutteaching English learners, is to
build on English learnerslanguage strengths, whatever
language it is that they speak,build on the strengths that
they're bringing.
I'm wondering, I know, likeAntonio you kind of brought up,
you know, like the phonemes,like half of the phonemes, are

(30:55):
similar in Spanish.
Is that one way that we canbuild on strengths, like the
phonemes, like half of thephonemes, are similar in Spanish
?
Is that one way that we canbuild on strengths, like finding
those similarities betweenlanguages?
And that might be one example,but what else, like what else
does that really mean forteachers to build on the
language strengths?

That is an excellent question.
Language strengths or lookingfor finding those opportunities
for students starts first andforemost with a belief system
from the classroom teacher, fromthe school community, from the
principal for the data analysisperson in the district, and that

(31:35):
belief system is rooted inknowing that English language
learners, that English learnershave more language than anybody
else, because we already camewith one, and that is a trick,
because most people think like,oh, you're learning English and
thus you might be lackingsomething.
No, he just meant that you havedouble Like.

(31:57):
You're so gifted and sotalented that now you're making
sense not only of your language,but you're making sense of the
second language and you'reattaching that one systemically.
And you're doing that by havingthis set of Legos that is your
home language and you know howto build with those Legos.
And all of a sudden, now youhave all these extra pieces that
have different prongs andyou're trying to see how it's

(32:19):
going to fit into what youalready know.
And how is it that they arealike and how is it that it is
different?
Our ability to be able to playon strengths as adults that are
absolutely committed and made afree choice to be in service of
students, is connected to ourown commitment of understanding.
First and foremost, how is itthat that home language is alike

(32:44):
or different from English, andmaking sense of that for
students?
So one of the things that Ilove the most about all the
extraordinary contributions thatDr Fierro have put forth in his
career for intentional workwith language learners is theory
on positionality.

(33:06):
I think that we were.
I don't know, tony, where werewe?
We were in one of theconferences and you said
someone's last name and I repeatit and I completely missed.
Was it t or a d at the end.
And so lovingly, he's like herepeated and I'm like come again
.
And he's like you use a t andit is a d, and I'm like because

(33:30):
I only have 25 years ofexperience with English and in
my home language that letterdoesn't go there.
It's a Lego piece that I don'tuse often.
So if someone doesn't tell me,I'll be building all my things
without a Lego piece, right?
So like a philosophical stance,a belief system that, if
anything, you are confrontedwith a human or with a set of

(33:53):
humans in your classroom thatsimply have more, is really,
really important.

Melissa (33:58):
Yeah, I love that Lego analogy and like finding what
fits together and what doesn't,and what you need to like build
something new with.
I really love that analogy alot.

Good, because I know nothing about sports
Legos we know we can do LegLegos.

Lori (34:14):
Melissa just did a whole Lego room for her son, so this
is great timing.
I need a picture of the Legoroom.

We'll send it to you perfect timing this is
the it's really important.
Continue to think about thisLego analogy.
That is really, reallyimportant.
If I am not taught how to usethe Lego piece, I will not use
it, and if I do not use it, Iwill not gain mastery.
So I am not building all thethings that I could be building

(34:43):
because I don't have a way ofdoing that.
Thinking about, for example,adolescent English learners A
few years ago I had theprivilege, and I was fortunate
enough, to start thinking abouthow do we develop language and
literacy simultaneously forkiddos that are kind of new to
language, and I was also lookingat kiddos that were long-term

(35:04):
ELLs students that have beenwith us for more than six years
and yet they have not beenreclassified as language
learners.
And one of the things that I wasthat I found was that kiddos
had oracy that surpassed theirability to be able to encode, to
write.
So I would show students apicture six, seven, eight, tenth
graders and they had lots andlots of things that they could

(35:26):
say about the picture and Iwould tell them now let's write
only 10 things out of the 30things that you said, and they
would use words as gorgeous.
They'll say like this isabsolutely gorgeous when they
were going, went in to write andthey would use words as
gorgeous.
They'll say like this isabsolutely gorgeous.
When they went in to write it,they would write pretty and I'm
like that's peculiar, I know,you know, gorgeous and they're
like I don't know how to startcooking with a word.

(35:47):
So this idea of explicitteaching makes a lot, a lot, a
lot of sense.
Now there is almost a trick thatwe play on teachers sometimes,
in that in the United States, weare protected as language
learners and our school systems,our districts, our classrooms,

(36:07):
our schools need to report backto the state.
How we said that we're beingtaken care of.
So we are being assessed in anEnglish proficiency assessment
on the yearly, okay, and whenteachers get back that report,
it would say Gabi.
So Gabi lives in Wisconsin, sowe do the WIDA assessment.

(36:28):
So Gabi is a solid 3.6 in ascale of six points.
So that means that Gabi is ableto do this, this, this, this
and this.
Now, this is the trick.
The assessment tells you what Iam able to do today.
So if, as a classroom teacher,I look at the list of things

(36:49):
that I can do today and ratherthan saying, oh, this is what
Gabi can do today, but these arethe things that she needs to be
able to do tomorrow so she cancontinue to grow, but rather
says, oh, this is what Gabi cando today, so I cannot expect
anything else from Gabi thanwhat she can do today.
Then, in this scenario, mylanguage will not grow.
So for language learners, wemust think about how do we

(37:14):
amplify language rather thansimplify language.
The money is in more Legopieces, not less pieces.
It's in building bigger andbetter things.

Lori (37:25):
Because, if anything I have more language, sure, and
you, in your example, youactually showed that right With
the language learners who, whowere you?
They were describing the photoor the picture that you showed
them, and if they're sayinggorgeous out loud but then
writing pretty, they'reconnecting that, that, that

(37:46):
they're similar, related terms.
They're probably able to evendo like a shades of meaning
where if you gave them likebeautiful, gorgeous, pretty, you
know you could do a whole thing.
But they also can do that thenin their home language, which is
pretty amazing, like that's socool, and I think that that's
like one of the key takeawaysthat I'm taking from this is

(38:07):
that our English learners notonly are they working double,
but they know double right, theyor triple.
They know so much more than Ithink the surface shows.

Melissa (38:19):
I was just gonna say and I loved what you talked
about with that that the WIDAassessment and thinking about,
well, what's next right Withwhat Lori just talked about,
like, okay, now I need to thinkabout this, these spelling
patterns that they're avoidingwhen they're writing, and how do
I give them those Lego blocksso they have that to build with
as well?

So there, are really really clear ways in
which we can support ourclassroom teachers into doing
that.
One of the ways is makingvisible that, as we said a
little bit ago, that you cannotlearn about nothing.
You cannot talk about nothing.
You cannot write about nothing.
You cannot read about nothing.
You write about nothing.
You cannot read about nothing.
You're always doing all thosethings in relationship to

(39:00):
content.
We're always doing the thosethings in service of
communication.
So our ability to be able tomake sense of not only what is
the great level rigor at thecontent level but also make
visible what is the languagethat you need to be able to do

(39:20):
that and making that part ofyour daily practice will ensure
two things A that you are notsystemically removing language
learners, english learners, fromgrade-level content.
That is like hashtag number oneRigor for everyone.

(39:43):
Do not please systemicallyexcuse kiddos that are learning
English out of classroomsbecause you don't believe that
they can attend to thegrade-level content, but make
visible what is the languagethat you need to be able to do
that out of classrooms becauseyou don't believe that they can
attend to the grade levelcontent, but make visible what
is the language that you need tobe able to do that.

What do you think, Dr Fierro?
Oh my gosh, I'm applauding youfrom over here.
I mean, yeah, I just want tolet you know that I'm just
applauding you from afar.
Right, I mean, that's yes,absolutely.
And let me just add when we'retalking about MTSS and we're

(40:27):
talking about Tier 1 instructionmy colleague hit it, nailed it
Our English learners need tohave Tier 1 instruction as well,
Every day.
Differentiation within tier one, differentiation within tier
one, which would mean maybeperhaps multiple opportunities
for practice, or moreopportunities for practice,
maybe some, some, uh, some, uh,more examples, for example, uh,
or, or even longer wait time.

(40:47):
I mean, those are the thingsthat that differentiate.
But I, uh, Gabi, you were, youwere so uh, right on, spot on,
spot on, spot on.
I get chills.
I got chills on that one.

Lori (40:58):
I do want to dive into a little bit deeper what we just
touched on, so these practicalexamples of strategies that
teachers can use to really tapinto the language strengths of
their English learners.
I'd love to hear some moreexamples and then, like, dig
into those.
So I don't know, antonio, wouldyou kick us off?

Yeah, I mean it goes back to and I know Gabi has
other examples as well thatneeds to be addressed and it
goes back though.
It goes back to understandingor realizing that when we're
talking about structuredliteracy and we're talking about
the how that for our Englishlearners, this is so incredibly

(41:38):
important that the instructionhas to be direct and it has to
be systematic.
We cannot take anything forgranted.
So we're talking about still, Imean, we're talking about
explicit instruction, we'retalking about it being
sequential, we're talking aboutit being cumulative, so there's
not going to be anythingdifferent.
Data-driven, absolutelydata-driven.
We're talking about it beingcumulative, so there's not going

(42:00):
to be anything different.
Data driven, absolutely datadriven.
And you know, I mean that'swhat's sometimes very alarming
when we take a look at the datathat we have on our English
learners across the countryapproaches, highly interactive,
and that's where the languagecomes in.
So that's the how of structuralliteracy.
The what is what we've beentalking about and what my

(42:21):
colleague Gabi has been talkingabout as well.
We're talking about that.
We still need thatphoneme-graphing correspondence.
We still need to have anunderstanding of morphemes,
especially in English, thatsyllable and stress patterns,
the orthographic conventions andwhy it is that we spell the way
we do, but also have anunderstanding of vocabulary and

(42:41):
semantic background knowledge.
So all those areas that we talkabout structured literacy
overall right, and the reason Ibring it up is because there's
been some pushback thatstructured literacy is really
just about phonics or it's notnecessary for the English
learner.
No, take a look at what do wemean by structured literacy and

(43:04):
look at what the greatinformation, great research that
IDA has published In a mindset,in the global concept, that
explicitness is so incrediblyimportant, as my colleague Gabi
mentioned.
What about that theory ofpositionality?
You know, the thing is that wemay have, like in English and
Spanish, we have same phonemes,we have similar phonemes or

(43:26):
identical phonemes, but, as shementioned in her example, in
Spanish, for example, some ofthese phonemes are not found in
certain position, usually thefinal position.
So this is why many of ourEnglish learners swallow their
endings, not only becauseperhaps that phoneme does not
appear in their home language,but also they're less aspirated

(43:51):
at the end of a word.
So we have to be those greatmodels of language.
So, in an overall and Gabi cango deeper into this I also want
to mention that the oldies butgoodies are still just as
effective today as they were 20years ago, and what I mean by
that are using illustrations tosupport the instruction and the

(44:13):
learning, using pictures tosupport that realia, you know,
the real stuff, total physicalresponse, acting that what that
word is all about or what thatsentence may be related to.
And then, when it comes to theinstruction itself, repetition,
repetition, repetition,repetition, additional practice,

(44:34):
longer wait time, because thestudent is processing
information, and processinginformation across two different
languages and transferring thatinformation.
But all along the way, though,we've got to embed language, so
language has to be embeddedthroughout that.
But that's in a global sense.
What are some of thosenecessary scaffolds?

(44:58):
And whenever there's a prompt,the student, it's necessary for
the student to repeat thatprompt, which is to respond in a
full sentence, for example witha scaffolding that teacher uses
.
So the I do, we do, you do, isvery, you know, explicit
instruction.
It's so necessary for ourEnglish learners, and a
colleague of mine reminded me ofthis.

(45:19):
You know what, antonio, whydon't you add one more I do, we
do, you all do, which we say inTexas right, I do, we do, you
all do, and then you do.
Or, if you're up north, I do,we do, yous do or you alls do or
something like that, and thenyou do.
So those are new terminologiestoo that I learned when I was up
in New York.
So we add that additionalsegment of you all do where you

(45:43):
are working with, with yourpeers around you.

Melissa (45:47):
Yeah, Antonio, can I ask one clarifying question in
there, with all those greatthings that you said, but
pictures are sometimes getting abad rap.
Showing pictures because youknow we don't want students to
guess at decoding a word,because of yeah, show them the
picture.
But what?
But I think what you're sayinghere is not to replace decoding

(46:07):
with guessing from the picture,but to give meaning to that word
.

Absolutely.
Thank you so much, and Gabiwill also.
I know she also has, you know,some very set ideas on that.
And I agree especially it's notthe picture to help with the
decoding or to take the place ofdecoding, but it's the picture
of the illustration to help withthe comprehension and to be

(46:32):
able to store it into long-termmemory.
So when we're talking aboutthat picture, we're already
talking.
We already talked about thephonology of that word, we
talked about the orthography ofthat word.
You know what does that wordmean and even you know the
morphology.
If there's well, every word has, you know, at least one
morpheme.
But is there anything more?
What story does that word haveto tell?
And then you back it up withthe picture or the illustration

(46:57):
and there has to be a fine linethere, because I don't want to
replace the rigor, right, Gabi?
I mean, that is, you weretalking the other day, or
yesterday or the day before,about over scaffolding, right?

Yes, when you ask the question about images,
I'm like can I take that oneplease?
May I spend a couple of minuteson it?
Absolutely Okay, please can.
May I spend a couple minutes onit?
Absolutely okay.
So remember that we're talkingamplification while making
language bigger and better.
We are playing with more legopieces so we can build bigger,
bigger, bigger, bigger things.

(47:33):
So every time that we'rethinking about what is the
support system that we're goingto use to amplify language, we
need to ask ourselves is this inservice of language production
or meaning making?
That's how you know if you'regoing to use it.
Will this help us use language?

(47:54):
And if it does, is thatlanguage going to serve the
master of content and languagedevelopment?
It cannot be for the opposite.
Okay.
So many times we misuse imagesand we use them as a way to rob
kiddos from the opportunity ofusing language.

(48:14):
That is not what we want.
We want what is diametricallythe opposite thing.
So we do not want to come upwith five words from a text that
we think the kiddos are notgoing to understand, show them a
picture of it and say this iswhat this is, because now you
just draw them from anyopportunity to engage in

(48:35):
cognitive struggle and rigor andtalk around, exactly like talk
around and about a concept, tosee if we can naturally arrive
to that specific word.
And note that the objective isnot, nor should be, the
expectation that students arealways going to be able to
naturally arrive, but bysuggesting to their psyche and

(48:58):
creating opportunities for us totalk about things, we are going
to build a cognitive schema towhich we can attach a word.
Okay, so a way in which and Ihave benefited, I'm going to say
this, I have benefited frombeing trained, um by dr ira
walkie on from west ed onamplification and like she is

(49:21):
like the master theoristconnected to that, so she would
um train us and teach us thatthen, rather than doing that
like showing the kid the picturethis is the word now go at it
into the world, because now youhave a match from one or the
other, you would reallyintentionally identify what are
the key vocabulary words that Ineed this kiddo to understand,

(49:46):
and that requires some planning.
It will require for me, firstand foremost, to ask myself what
is the why of this text, why,of all the texts in the universe
that I could have chosen forinstruction, this is the one.
What is it about this text thatkiddos need to know a year from
now?
How is it that this text isenhancing their quality of life?

(50:09):
And then, by answering thosequestions, I will know.
This is the why of the text.
This is why this text isfundamentally important.
And then this is the vocabulary, the key idea or the concept
the vocabulary, the key idea orthe concept.
Then I have A identify, the keyvocabulary, and I could select
an arrangement or three or fourimages that are connected with

(50:30):
each other.
That will be visualrepresentations of that idea and
I will tell my students.
This works with second graders,10th graders, 12th graders.
I think it also works withspouses, I don't know.
I think it works with secondgraders, 10th graders, 12th
graders.
I think it also works withspouses, I don't know.
I think it works with allhumans.
And you can pull the firstpicture out and you say I'm

(50:51):
going to show you three pictures.
They are about the same conceptand idea.
I want you to look at the firstpicture and I want you to think
and make notes for yourselfabout what that is.
And then, after that, after youhave done your own thinking, I
want you to think and make notesfor yourself about what that is
.
And then, after that, after youhave done your own thinking, I
want you to connect with afriend and I want to show you a
second picture.
Now, as more pictures are beingshown, I am revealing more

(51:14):
about what a concept is, and thekids are getting better and
better and better about tryingto define what is it that it is,
and better about trying todefine what is it that it is.
By the third picture, it isvery likely that, as a
collective, we have identified,we have been able to define what
that idea is, and then, as aclassroom teacher, I can say
this is the key vocabulary.
This is the word.

(51:34):
This is the word in English forit.
This is how many syllables theword has.
This is how the word is alikeor different.
This is about a specificspelling in it.
Pay attention about thisspecific syllable structure
inside of the word.
But note that now the word isthe easy part because I have
already built, it's alreadylived in my tongue, it lives in

(51:57):
my mind and now I'm ready toaccept the text and engage with
the text because I understandthe arc of the why.
How is that, melissa?
For like an idea of how to useimages.

Melissa (52:10):
Yes, that makes so much more sense, and I mean it makes
a lot of sense for buildingthat true understanding of a
word, versus, like you said, youknow, just using the
illustration on the page forsomeone to guess at.
You know, that's what this Ithink this word might be this,
because there's an illustrationof it on the page Like that's
not what you're saying at all.
You're saying like buildingthis deep understanding of that

(52:32):
key vocabulary.
So then they're ready when theyread a text, absolutely.

And my colleague does that so well, and it's
really taking theseillustrations and narrowing down
what the concept is that she'strying to get across.
But notice that, when it'srealized, notice that she didn't
stop there, right?
I mean, then she talked aboutwhat does this word, what story

(52:59):
does this word, have to tell?
Is this word, what story doesthis word have to tell, from the
sense of syllabication, forexample, or syllable patterns,
from a sense of phonology?
Is there something inparticular about this word that
helped me lead to, then, whatthe word actually means?
Are there more themes in therethat I can now expand on?

(53:19):
So the bottom line is that sheis talking about meaning, but
also form.
All right, so meaning and form.
So that is incredibly,incredibly important.
So it's a complete process thatshe has done.

Lori (53:38):
So, like if we wanted to run through that, let's just say
I'm a second grade teacher, myclass is reading a book about
sea turtles that are going to behatching or living around a
jetty, ok, and I let's like,let's go full circle, my class,
I'm fairly sure.
Let's say I'm a teacher inTexas Antonio, just for the sake

(53:58):
of this.
So pretty sure my students haveno idea what a jetty is, and
both English learners and mystudents who are not English
learners right, probablyeveryone could benefit from this
, and that's also something Ilove about these.
Like to me, the activity youjust described, Gabi, is great
for all learners, right.
Like to me, it's just a globalpre-reading post, like

(54:24):
post-reading extension, likeit's good for everyone.
Okay, so let's say our kiddosare going to read a story and
they're not sure about we knowthey're not going to know Jetty.
So maybe the first picture Iput up is of a beach and we just
situated in a beach and we talkabout a beach and then, okay,
they're, they're identifyingthat.

(54:45):
Then we're talking, maybethey're sand and waves, so
there's other vocabulary comingin, right, and you all can jump
in.
I'm just just playing aroundhere.
Then the next one is like, okay, maybe there's some, some, some
of these big rocks on the beachand we're getting like a a more
zoomed out view and there'ssome rocks.
And the kids are like, why arethere big rocks on the beach?

(55:06):
So maybe we're thinking rocks,boulders, might come up, you
know, maybe, and we're like, ohwell, I don't know if that's as
big as a boulder, you know,let's, let's think about it, but
I, you know.
Then the third picture issomething else that's helping
them investigate it even further.

Maybe the third picture would be of a beach
eroding.
I mean, there'd be some erosionbecause the jetty is going to
be there for the sake for thepurpose of preventing the
erosion, yeah.

Lori (55:32):
Oh, I love that.
Okay, see, I knew we could putour brains together and do this
All right.

Yes, and thinking about what is.
So going back to thefundamental question about the
text and the lesson.
So, going back to thefundamental question about the
text and the lesson, what is themost fundamental about this
lesson a year from now?
What is the big idea that Iwant the kiddos to have?
Is it about erosion?
Is it about habitats?
And once we are really clear,once we can answer, what is it

(56:06):
about this second grade lessonthat I need these students to
remember when they are 20, thatthen I know what is it that I'm
driving for.

Lori (56:10):
I love this so much because there's so many
questions we get from teachersin our inbox about well, how
does what I'm teaching in thisyou know curricular unit about?
Let's say, they're buildingknowledge on birds, right, and
my students are learning aboutbirds how does this extend to
the real world?
How?
How does this extend to othertopics?

(56:32):
But I think it's not about thebirds, it's about it's not about
the birds, it's aboutunderstanding animal habitats.
It's about understanding theconcept of predators and prey,
Interdependency, yeah, All thosebig features.
I mean think about all thethings with flight you're
exploring with the wingspan andhow that transfers over into so

(56:53):
many other pieces of life andthe world around.

And think about your example, laurie, about the
jetty, I mean.
So this is just one thing thing, but what's the bigger takeaway
?
What about erosion, you know?
What about habitat?
You know how does thatcontribute to that as well.
So I I don't know if you were,you're going to add anything
more to that, but there, now,now we've, we've added to it,

(57:17):
and what's important here isthat, as my colleague was
talking about, is how there'scommunication, there's talking
going on as we're looking atthese illustrations of these
pictures, and we're talkingabout it.
We're writing.
Notice that she said we'rewriting about it as well.
So we're developing all theseskills.
So, in actuality, now, now youknow, we're talking about

(57:40):
language from the sense offunction.
This is the function oflanguage.
You get this thought across.
And now what are the conceptsthat I learned?
That's the function of language, both in oracy, oral language
and written language, but alsoform, and that was so, so
critical about the example thatwe're talking about that we
finish up with this is what thejetty is, this is how this is

(58:03):
the word and this is how it isspelled, and these are the
representations, but the overallconcept was just so huge.

Lori (58:11):
So much bigger than that, and in the meantime you can also
teach.
So I just happened to look itup.
The morphology of it that youknow, for example, jet, is from
French and Latin, but it meanslike to sprout or spurt forth to
shoot out to throw, I meanthat's exactly what those rocks
are doing, right, they'rejutting out, they're shooting

(58:32):
out.
And I think that that so we canweave all this in in the bigger
picture of erosion, in thebigger picture of yes, we're
reading this story, we're goingto learn about habitats and
erosion and this is going totransfer over.
This knowledge is going totransfer these.
This morphology that we'relearning, this etymology I'm
sorry that was etymology, notmorphology, I'm sorry that we're

(58:53):
learning is going to transferover.
So I love this so much.
It's so important to thinkabout this in a bigger context
and I'm so glad that we'retalking about this.

No monolinguals will be harmed in
doing this.
I just want to say hashtagmonolinguals are safe, right,
like all the babies in theclassroom.
No one will be harmed by this,by this, no one will be harmed.

(59:27):
But this is absolutely criticalif you're learning a second
language.
I remember, because I wasnearly an adult, when I started
on my journey for english.
I would remember coming home atthe end of the school and I
prayed that no one would talk tome because I was talked out.
It's a lot of work.
It's a lot of work to learnlanguage and content, and if we,

(59:51):
as those that are designing thecontent, can make visible for
students, why is it that thismatters?
First, engagement goes off theroof, because if you can
articulate, why on earth, it'snot about the others, right, it
is about this larger picture.
We are increasing engagement,we have increased utility, and

(01:00:14):
then it pays up for me to putall of that extra effort into
learning content and language.
Student attendance increaseswhen they know that you're going
to keep on talking about thething that they really want to
talk about.
So can I give you anotherexample, like a really, really
like clear example on how easythat we can move this let's see

(01:00:38):
with a common core for gradethree, all right.
This let's see with a commoncore for grade three, all right.
So across the United States,every single state, have adopted
, of course, content standards.
Let's think about literacy, andfor the language learners, we
also have language developmentstandards.
So we're always playing withthese two sets of standards.

(01:00:59):
Let's think about third gradeAcross the entire nation,
regardless of what standards youhave adopted Common Core or
something specific like in Texas, california, new York every
single third grade across thenation is expected to write
informational texts.
The standard might be adifferent number, it might have
different words, but everybodyin third grade is writing
informational text.

(01:01:20):
So from Common Core, that isreally widely used Common Core
for third grade, standard numbertwo says that students are
going to develop the topic withfacts, definitions and details.
That is all that Common Coretells you and you're like okay,
that's cute, we can do that.
What is the language that youneed in order to be able to do

(01:01:41):
that?
So let's pretend that you'reCommon Core and you are in
Illinois.
So you do WIDA, that is usedfor 41 states.
So WIDA whispers into your earinformational texts that say

(01:02:02):
that you can use prepositionalphrases to describe places or
locations Like, for example,next to the water.
So now let's put both of thosethings together and have a
single learning target for thatstring of lessons.
That would be that as a 3rdgrader, I will develop the topic
with facts and definitions byusing prepositional phrases to

(01:02:25):
describe places and location.

Antonio Fierro (01:02:33):
So now you just have more language.

Gabi Bell Jimenez (01:02:35):
You have more lego pieces.
As I said, no monolingual isgoing to be harmed by this.
This is going to help yourinstruction because it's going
to give you an emphasis, a focuspoint to come in, and it's
going to be able to help youmake that visible.
So I want to read a singlesentence that has from an
informational text that has aprepositional phrase, and I'm
going to show you how it's saidthat I would use it in service

(01:02:55):
of language development.
Let's say that I'm readingabout earthworms.
Probably I should have chosenanother word, because that's a
hard word to say Earthworms.
Probably I should have chosenanother word, because that's a
hard word, to say earth worms.
Like the little worms, can yousay you do it right earthworms,
did I do it right?
So earthworms and we know thatthese are amazing creatures that

(01:03:15):
live in the soil.
Okay, now the second sentencefor our paragraph might be they,
theworms, help plants grow bymoving through the dirt.
If I would have said that theyhelp plants by moving in the
dirt, I would have missed anopportunity of expanding how we
said that moving through thedirt is what is allowing them to

(01:03:40):
do a work that is ultimatelygoing to oxygenate the earth and
allow an opportunity for plantsto be able to germinate from it
right.
So spending time on thoseprepositional phrases allows the
English learner to be able toexpand from simple sentences to
complex or compound sentences,depending on how we say that

(01:04:01):
we're using it.
Sentences to complex orcompound sentences, depending on
how we say that we're using it,but also gives us clues about
how we say that language isallowing us to access the
content.
Is that helpful?

Lori (01:04:12):
So much, so much.
I feel like every third gradeteacher listening you're just
like speaking their lovelanguage right now, like thank
you for being so practical aboutthat.
That that's like, yes, I meanevery third grader.
I mean you're, and you'recoming up with so many lessons.
What is a preposition?
Using it in context?
We're learning about earthworms.
We need to be reading aboutearthworms and building
knowledge about earthworms rightand vocabulary there Oxygenate.

(01:04:35):
I heard that.
So there's so manyopportunities for that to happen
and I love that prepositionalphrase focus.
It's very clear.

And that is what we want Ultimately.
I think that these are like thebig takeaways Please keep your
language learners and protectyour language learners by
ensuring that we continue I'mone of those.
I'm one of them by giving usaccess to rigorous, grade level
content.
Do not simplify language for us.

(01:05:06):
We have more language than most.
Give us more, amplify languagefor us and do love us enough to
give us context and explain tous how easy that that works.
And when you're attending tolanguage in service of rigor,
remember the language has twoparts that are completely
connected from each other.

(01:05:26):
Language has form Antonio spokeabout form and it also has a
function.
Why is it that we're usinglanguage in service of what, and
how is it that we're makingmeaning of it?
So just keep those things inyour heart as you continue to

(01:05:46):
serve language learners.
We are everywhere, we're animportant population, we
continue to grow and we have somuch that we want to offer to
the communities that we serve.
We just need the opportunity tobe able to do that.

Melissa (01:05:59):
Well, we could keep talking to you all for hours,
but we really can't thank youenough, for I mean all of the
research-based information youshared, the practical strategies
you shared the personalexamples, the analogies that
helped us understand it.
So, thank you all so much forall that you shared with us
today.
We really appreciate it.

Antonio Fierro (01:06:18):
You're quite welcome.
It was a joy and it was so muchfun.
Such a pleasure.
Thank you so so much.
You're quite welcome.

It was a joy and it was so much fun.
Such a pleasure.
Thank you so so much.
You're superstars.

Melissa (01:06:30):
To stay connected with us, sign up for our email list
at literacypodcastcom, join ourFacebook group and follow us on
Instagram and.

Lori (01:06:38):
Twitter.
If this episode resonated withyou, take a moment to share with
a teacher friend or leave us afive-star rating and review on
Apple Podcasts.

Melissa (01:06:50):
Just a quick reminder that the views and opinions
expressed by the hosts andguests of the Melissa and Lori
Love Literacy Podcast are notnecessarily the opinions of
Great Minds PBC or its employees.

Lori (01:07:01):
We appreciate you so much and we're so glad you're here to
learn with us.

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