August 15, 2025 • 45 mins
Episode 233
In this episode, we sit down with speech-language pathologist Linsey Jones, who’s leading groundbreaking work in her district by delivering smart, targeted, and manageable literacy interventions to kindergarten students.
Linsey shares how her background in speech-language pathology led her to create a data-driven, highly responsive tier 2 intervention program. She walks us through how she uses assessments (think: letter-sound knowledge, early phonemic awareness, and real-time data tracking), what her 15-minute intervention sessions really look like, and how thoughtful collaboration with classroom teachers has created system-wide change.
We also talk about how her work has been influenced by literacy expert Julia Lindsey and how their entire district is now seeing almost no students falling behind by the end of kindergarten.
Resources
- Learn more about Linsey's Tier 2 Phonemic Awareness Intervention Program
- Check out Linsey's website: speechlanguageliteracyconnection.com
- Research-Based Routines for Developing Decoding Skills with Julia Lindsey (podcast episode)
- Reading Above the Fray by Julia Lindsey (book)
- Kindergarten TEAM Reaches (nearly) 100% Success Using Evidence-Based Practices (podcast episode)
- Upstream: The Quest to Solve Problems Before They Happen by Dan Heath (book)
We answer your questions about teaching reading in The Literacy 50-A Q&A Handbook for Teachers: Real-World Answers to Questions About Reading That Keep You Up at Night.
Grab free resources and episode alerts! Sign up for our email list at literacypodcast.com.
Join our community on Facebook, and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, & Twitter.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Melissa (00:01):
Addressing students' reading needs early makes all
the difference.
That's why we're so excited foryou to hear from Linsey Jones,
a speech-language pathologist,doing incredible work with
kindergartners through a smart,research-based intervention.
Lori (00:17):
Linsey shares how she identifies students for support,
what her targeted small groupsessions look like and the real
growth she's seeing.
You'll leave this episode withpractical ideas and a lot of
inspiration to take back to yourown classroom or school.
Hi, teacher friends.
I'm Lori and I'm Melissa.
(00:37):
We are two educators who wantthe best for all kids, and we
know you do too.
Melissa (00:44):
We worked together in Baltimore when the district
adopted a new literacycurriculum.
Lori (00:49):
We realized there was so much more to learn about how to
teach reading and writing.
Melissa (00:54):
Lori, and I can't wait to keep learning with you today.
Lori (01:00):
Hi Linsey, Welcome to the podcast.
Linsey Jones (01:03):
Hi ladies, Thanks for having me.
I'm so excited to be here today.
Lori (01:07):
Yeah, we're so excited to dig in with you about all the
amazing work that you're doing.
Linsey Jones (01:13):
Oh, thank you so much.
Yeah, I'm excited to share itwith your viewers.
Melissa (01:17):
Yeah, and so, Linsey, you're a speech-language
pathologist and you're doingthis really powerful work with
early reading intervention,which is not always where speech
language pathologists end up,but you're doing this work with
kindergartners.
So I'm wondering if you canjust share a little bit about
how your role as a speechlanguage pathologist actually
led you to this readingintervention.
Linsey Jones (01:40):
Yeah.
So I think it's actually kindof a neat story how everything
kind of came together.
So early literacy has alwayskind of been a strong interest
area of mine.
But the field of speechpathology is so vast and it's so
big that sometimes we can'treally like hone into certain
interest areas that we have asmuch because we have to service,
(02:02):
you know, large caseloads anddo evaluations and therapy and
all the things.
But I think since COVID I'venoticed an increase in the
number of students that weservice, their complexity of
needs, and so I kept going backto like early literacy and early
intervention and how could wecatch these kids a little bit
(02:22):
earlier and maybe make an impactlike long-term on you know, the
workload and the caseload thatwe have in a school because it's
big for everybody, right?
So I developed actually twointervention programs.
The one we'll talk about isobviously the one that deals
with phonics, but I also haveanother one that deals with
speech, sound interventionsspecifically for SLPs.
(02:45):
Um, and you know we piloted theprograms.
They had great success.
Um, as speech pathologists weare experts in differentiated
instruction, so that really lentitself well to developing the
program and really like honingit and making it the most
effective thing we could make ofit.
(03:05):
And so, as we were developingthat, I really had to put a lot
of trust in like ourkindergarten teachers and our
literacy coaches and things likethat and rely on kind of a
collaboration model to get thisup and going and to be
successful.
So that's kind of a littlebackground of like how a speech
pathologist finds themselves inthis like world of literacy.
(03:26):
You know, obviously languageand literacy they overlap a lot,
but SLPs aren't oftentimes likethe lead person doing an
intervention that has to focuson phonics and language language
.
Melissa (03:40):
So yeah, overlap was the exact word I had in my mind
and I was thinking back to.
We actually had a kindergartenteacher on years ago who talked
about how she worked with herschool's SLP to, you know,
refine the work she was doing inthe classroom.
So there's just so much overlapbetween the work you all do
regularly and what's happeningin a kindergarten, first grade
(04:03):
classroom for sure.
Linsey Jones (04:04):
Yeah, there is and I think a lot of people don't
fully realize that all the timebecause they think you know
we're working on sounds andthings like that kind of the
traditional SLP role.
But we really are trained in somany things phonics,
phonological awareness, languageyou know that language piece
that comes in with readingcomprehension, I mean it's all
(04:24):
kind of intertwined, obviously.
So.
Melissa (04:26):
And I'm wondering too.
You mentioned, you know, oftenfor intervention people just
usually just want to go to aprogram, right, Like, which
program should I adopt?
My students need help.
But I'm wondering what made youwant to create your own pro?
You know you said you developedthis program, so what made you
want to do that, instead of justusing something that was
already out there?
Linsey Jones (04:46):
Yeah, that is a question I get asked all the
time, like what program are youusing?
What program are you using?
And I want to be like superclear that at a tier one level,
a program and a curriculum isawesome, right, you need
something that is really rootedin.
Who's going to benefit mostfrom this and how are we going
to capture the most number ofkids with this instruction?
(05:07):
So great for tier one, right,we want a really robust
curriculum or program there.
But for tier two, when you'rereally looking at, why are these
kids not responding to thistier one or why is it taking
them longer to maybe respond tothe tier one instruction, them
longer to maybe respond to thetier one instruction?
You know we really want todifferentiate and so programs
(05:28):
can be a helpful guide, but theydon't always lend itself to be
flexible and responsive to whatthe particular student needs.
And as SLPs, we differentiateall day, every day, and very
rarely will we, will you find anSLP using a like quote program
(05:50):
and and so the data reallydrives our instruction and it
drives our therapy.
And so I wasn't.
It felt kind of natural to notadopt like a program but really
listen to what the data wastelling us, and kind of develop
like sort of like a treatmentplan from there sort of for our
students.
Lori (06:09):
That is amazing.
I feel like every time I talkwith a speech language
pathologist, I want to just saylike you make you all make me
want to go back to school to bea speech language pathologist.
Melissa (06:20):
I feel the same way I asked.
I've been.
I looked at programs the otherday too.
Lori (06:25):
After talking with Linsey on our pre-call, Come join come
join the field.
Come join the field, melissa andI will just do it together.
One more thing I that I ropeher into, all right.
So we know that.
You know this is hard work.
You're making it sound easy.
You're like, yeah, I developedthis program, we implemented
this, or not program we?
I developed and implementedthis intervention I should say
(06:47):
intervention program for maybelack of better word.
But you know, we also know thatyou've got some help along the
way.
You shared that you worked withJulia Linsey, who is a friend
of the podcast.
She's the author of readingabove the fray.
She's been on our podcast a fewtimes but I'm wondering if you
could share how her work hasinfluenced the phonics and the
(07:08):
speech sound instructionhappening at your school and
what you've implemented in thisintervention.
Linsey Jones (07:15):
So Julia has been such an awesome resource for me.
She has influenced my program tobe the most like streamlined
and effective thing that it canpossibly be, and I know that our
students have benefited so muchfrom her guidance and her
research on what gives you themost return on investment,
(07:36):
what's the best bang for yourbuck when you're working with
these students, because we don'thave a lot of time with them,
right.
So our interventions are intense, they're short, and so we want
to make sure, like, what do weprioritize, what is our sequence
of skills and how do we reallymaximize instruction?
Her research and you know, justkind of ability to bounce
(07:59):
things off of her like bounceideas off of her has been so
very, very helpful.
So she participated in someprofessional development with
our district and that's kind ofhow I got to know her initially.
So she's been great to kind ofhelp balance that research
driven instruction and practicalapplication of that right,
(08:19):
because we can have all theresearch studies we want but if
we can't implement them, thenit's, you know, not very helpful
.
So she's been great to kind ofhelp me bridge that gap.
Lori (08:31):
Yeah, I.
Actually.
One thing that I think about isresearchers who are able to
really speak the language ofteachers.
I love talking with them themost because I feel like it's,
so it helps me understand whatI'm actually supposed to be
doing better.
So that's kind of what I'mhearing you say, like she's kind
of talking the language ofteachers, like she can interpret
(08:52):
the research but can share itin a way that you're able to
understand and helps youimplement what you're doing.
Linsey Jones (08:58):
Yeah, absolutely, and it's been great to just kind
of see over the last couple ofyears implementing the program
and how it's changed and how Ican just kind of make it better
and more efficient, even thoughwe're getting really great
results anyway.
It just feels so great to knowthat we're doing the best that
we can by our kids and we'regiving them, you know, the most
(09:18):
up to date research andinstruction All right.
Melissa (09:23):
So let's dig into some of that practical stuff that you
talked about.
We want to hear what you'reactually doing and we want to
start with assessments and data.
So, just starting with, youknow we're talking about
kindergarten here.
So these are students who arecoming into school, maybe never
having been to school before,just starting to learn letters
and sounds, and they're just atthe beginning of their journey
(09:45):
on learning how to read.
What kinds of assessments areyou giving, what kind of data
are you looking at and what areyou looking for in that data to
know who needs this intervention?
Linsey Jones (09:57):
So that is a wonderful question and something
that we've kind of worked ondeveloping over the last couple
of years of like how do wecollect data that is really
meaningful for us as well?
So all of our kindergartnersare screened in the fall right
when they come in.
We have a team of people thatlook at kind of a multi-layer of
(10:17):
assessments.
So we look at some standardizedassessments, we look at some
phonemic awareness assessments,we look at some classroom
awareness assessments, we lookat some classroom-based teacher
data like letter, soundidentification, that kind of
thing.
And you know, these kiddos thatare coming in are they have such
a wide variety of skills thatsometimes you've got kids that
(10:37):
know all their letters and alltheir sounds and maybe they've
been to a preschool program, andthen you've got other kids who
this is their first schoolexperience and so they're really
kind of behind the eight ballalready in comparison to their
peers.
And so we really try to combinethis quantitative data with
teacher observation to get awell-rounded picture of what our
(10:59):
cohort looks like, and wereally want to flag those kids
early that may be a little bitbehind so we can catch them up
to speed on to where they are.
So we really look at, you know,kind of like I said, a
multi-layer assessment data, andthen the nice thing about
having this on all of ourkindergarten students across the
(11:20):
whole district is that we cansee what our cohort looks like
as a group.
So everyone is going to bedifferent, right.
But if we look at them as anentire, for our district we have
10 classrooms, 10 kindergartenclassrooms, and if we look at
them, okay, where, where's,what's their learning profile,
what's their kind of literacyprofile, right?
(11:41):
So we can kind of get that oneach and every one of our kids.
Lori (11:50):
Yeah, I think one of the things that stands out to me and
I feel like this would be aresounding answer from every
kindergarten teacher, every SLPwho works with kindergarten
students is just the variance inthe students coming in and just
they're all kind of all overthe place in their acquisition
of skills, and so that I I'mjust thinking about how your
(12:11):
strategy to just get in thereand to close the gap as quickly
as possible, right when itstarts, and like actually kind
of like proactively do this isreally important.
Linsey Jones (12:22):
Yes, it is, and it it's easier to do when they're
younger, right, you have lessroom to make up, and so, um, and
and we'll talk, I'm sure, alittle bit about this a little
bit later but what we're findingis that by the time these
kiddos are finishingkindergarten, they don't look
that different from one another,so the variance has become very
small.
(12:43):
Which impacts has?
Like global impacts, right,like instruction, tier one
instruction and fewer kids inintervention.
So, yeah, they start off with ahuge scatterplot of skills and
as the year progresses, theylook.
The kids in my tier two programlook almost indistinguishable
(13:03):
from the tier one kids, which isawesome.
Melissa (13:06):
That is amazing.
Yes, and we'll talk more aboutthat later, for sure.
I am curious.
I just want to stamp, though Isthe biggest thing?
You're looking for the lettersound knowledge.
Linsey Jones (13:17):
Okay.
So that is one of the big thingsthat we definitely look at is
letter, sound knowledge andidentification.
But we're also looking at earlyphonemic awareness skills and we
do like a kind of a battery ofsubtest assessments with that
and where we look at where theirskills are and kind of how they
(13:42):
deviate from their peers inthat way.
So they're coming intokindergarten.
We don't expect them to be ableto blend and segment a CVC word
right, Like that's not what weare expecting them to do.
But when we look at the wholegroup we can say, okay, this
cluster of kids, they lookdifferent than their peers as
far as the data goes.
So they're lookingstatistically significantly
(14:03):
different from their peers asfar as the data goes.
So they're lookingstatistically significantly
different from their peers.
And that's how it kind of helpsus identify, you know, if they
need to be in a tier two programor not.
So we look for those skill gapsand then kind of form our
groups from there.
We do this in a couple cyclesthroughout the year, but that's
what it kind of looks like inthe fall initially.
Lori (14:24):
Okay.
So, Linsey, once students areidentified for support, you've
done this robust battery ofassessments what does your tier
two intervention really looklike?
I mean, I know you said it'snot a program, it's driven by
what students need, but whatdoes that look like in actual
practice every day in theclassroom?
Like I have so many questionsabout this.
(14:44):
Does that look like in actualpractice every day in the
classroom?
Like I have so many questionsabout this?
Who's who's doing theintervention?
When is it happening?
How often, you know?
Is it in small groups?
Is it in, uh, you know, maybe asemi whole group situate, like
what happens?
So can you tell us all thedetails here?
Linsey Jones (14:57):
Yeah, like, what are the nitty gritty?
Right?
Like, how does it?
How does it look?
So, um, I do all of ourintervention for our district.
So, like I said, we have 10kindergarten classrooms.
It's across three buildings, soI'm kind of all over the place.
But it's fun, we make it workright, like it's great.
Sometimes I do have the help ofSLP interns.
(15:18):
So I do work collaborativelywith some local universities
here and I do take studentinterns, like in the fall and in
the spring, and they are veryhelpful in data collection,
they're very helpful in forminggroups and things like that.
So really, once we haveidentified these group of kids
that need to be receiving tiertwo instruction, we'll kind of
(15:40):
divide them by skill gap level.
So like, what do they need helpwith?
So are they really showing aneed for letter sound
identification or are theylooking really different from
their peers and being able toidentify the first sound in a
word, things like that?
So we'll kind of separate themby group that way, and then it's
(16:01):
kind of off to the races.
So I'll see them about two tothree times a week for 15
minutes a piece and it'stypically in small group format.
It's not a lot of whole group.
So a couple of years ago wemade some videos that really
focus on like the articulatoryfeatures of sounds and things
like that that teachers can playfor more of like tier one
(16:24):
instruction, just kind of asanother resource.
So we don't do a lot of wholegroup and mostly because our
tier one instruction is reallyrobust anyway.
So they're doing not only liketheir ELA curriculum but we also
supplement with a phonemicawareness program.
So they get a lot of that andthen it's sort of you know,
(16:46):
skill targeted after that.
So, yeah, I'll see him a coupletimes a week for 15 minutes.
Small group, probably two tothree kids.
As we get going in the year.
If we see that someone needsmore individualized instruction,
then it's very easy to just seethat kiddo one-on-one.
So we can very easily makeadjustments that way based on
(17:08):
what they need.
Melissa (17:10):
Linsey, I love that you keep it short, because I have a
kindergartner at home and Iknow more than 15 minutes would
be.
You know, on one thing, it canbe a challenge for sure.
I'm wondering how do you makethe most of that time and really
get it?
I'm just going to sidetrackreal quick.
So my son does martial arts andit's only 30 minutes long and
(17:30):
they do so much in that 30minutes.
I'm always shocked.
I'm like how did they do allthat with these little guys?
You know, and and I'm justwondering how do you, how do you
do that with the little onesand like, get the most out of
that 15 minutes?
Lori (17:44):
Yes, Can I?
Can I jump in, Like, do youhave a specific like routine
that you can share?
I'm just curious.
Maybe, maybe not, but is itlike in 15 minutes I'm going to
do bop, bop, bop, bop?
It's like a four-step routine,a five-step routine, a
three-step routine or it'sdifferent.
Like you said, it's differentfor each group of kids.
Linsey Jones (18:02):
Yeah, no, that's a great question because it's not
just like you open a manual andyou're on lesson one, right,
and then you do this instruction.
So it does look a lot different.
So in the fall maybe we'refocused a little bit more on
letter sound identification oridentifying the first sound in a
word, whereas now we'rewrapping up the year and our
kids are past segmenting andblending, they're on to like
(18:26):
decodable books and things likethat.
So the sessions look reallydifferent depending on the time
of the year.
But super brief, really highlyfocused, um, we're working
really on blending, segmentingand incorporating letters, um
like physical letters, intoevery session that we have.
So those are kind of like thethree main areas that we really
(18:48):
want to focus on.
Sometimes if we have to likeback up to teach a concept, then
we can do that easily.
But those are really the threebig areas that we want to hit
every single time Blending,segmenting and then those
letters and sounds, kind ofcombining all of that together.
(19:08):
And I will say one thing that Ihave done this year is I've
really incorporated like amultisensory approach into every
single session that I have withkids.
So what are your articulatorsdoing?
How are they moving.
What is working when you makethis sound?
I see a lot of speech relatederrors with my kids, even if
(19:32):
they don't have speech andlanguage needs at all.
So, for example, they'll putvoicing in when there shouldn't
be voicing in a sound or, youknow, they'll mix up like an M
and an N.
You know some letters that arevery similar.
I see it all the time, and sousing a multisensory approach
where we incorporate a lot ofpictures along with like
(19:54):
physical manipulators that weincorporate a lot of pictures
along with like physicalmanipulators that has made a
world of difference with ourkids.
So I'm sure to include that inevery session we do.
Lori (20:03):
That's so neat.
So are you talking about?
And just for clarification,because when you say you know
physical manipulators, are youmeaning like you touch something
?
And I'm obviously thinking whenyou're saying a picture.
It's almost like a, like asound wall card where you can
like see right, see the mouthand where it should be.
(20:24):
For example, if I'm sayingremember, and I have a kid
saying remember, I'm going to beable to see that on right on
the sound card.
But what would be like aphysical manipulator?
Linsey Jones (20:37):
Like a letter tile , something like that.
How would you use that?
Like, how does that work, okay,so, yeah, so an example of what
this would look like.
Let's say we're going to blendand segment, like a CVC word,
like man or something like that.
So I will have, kind of like um, some placeholders for each
sound right, kind of like theboxes that we would use.
(20:59):
Sure, like I'll code in boxesYep, yep, um.
But at the beginning, wherewe're trying to figure out, okay
, what does our mouth do, first,in the word man, I'm going to
have like a sound wall picture,um, to have them start so they
know how their mouth is starting.
Um.
And then, similarly, at the end, I'm going to have them start
so they know how their mouth isstarting.
And then, similarly, at the end, I'm going to have a sound wall
picture that has the picturefor N, so they know how their
(21:22):
mouth is ending.
And I find that when kids arereally starting to first
understand that concept ofblending and segmenting, they
get the segmenting right andthen they go to blend it and
they're like wait, what does mymouth need to do?
And having that visual therekind of takes that cognitive
load off of them to be able tolike oh yeah, I need to put my
(21:44):
lips together and do this.
So, um, I use actually I made mydaughter um, do these pictures
for me, cause I wanted more likerobust picture cards, and so I
mean to take all these pictures.
I'm like do an S, do a TH, dothis sound, do this sound.
And so that's actually what Iuse with all of my kids, because
I can then talk about how thesound is made.
(22:06):
Is it a stream of air?
Is it a pop of air that'scoming out?
Is it continuous sound?
Is it made in the front of themouth, the back of the mouth, so
, um, so we talk a lot aboutthat.
So the multisensory piece is ahuge um, a huge part of every
single session, and if you'vedone letters training, I mean,
that is like the whole pieces ishow um important you know
(22:32):
articulatory features are, andit is big.
Lori (22:34):
Yeah, and I would you also use mirrors in there too, so
they can see themselves.
Linsey Jones (22:39):
Yep, and they love that right.
They're kindergartners and theyare like oh, I love this.
Lori (22:44):
It's fascinating where your mouth is moving and you
know when you're six.
Try to make a sound.
Linsey Jones (22:48):
It's amazing you know that's funny that you said
that, though, because at thebeginning in the fall, there is
a lot of it Does your mouthmatch this picture mouth Right?
So if they are going to do someearly like sound identification
and a CVC word, does your mouthfor the S sound match this?
(23:09):
You know, picture wall, picture, and even the concept of does
it match, does it not match issomething that takes some time
for them to learn, so I thinkanytime you can incorporate
visuals and like a mirror andthings like that, it really
helps them a lot.
Melissa (23:26):
Linsey, I'm also curious about handwriting, like,
do you have them writingletters?
Because I mean this is new tothem too, right, and that can be
a challenge for ourkindergartners.
Linsey Jones (23:36):
Yeah, yeah, so, along with some of the
activities that I kind of likemade for my kiddos, is
definitely a handwritingcomponent, and in the fall it
might look a little bit morelike tracing right, because
they're going to get handwritingin their tier one instruction
but then in tier two, how can wemake sure that they're really
forming those letters correctly?
(23:57):
And so we may segment a word,um, associate the letter tiles
to the sounds, and then theytrace um the particular word on,
like a, you know, a dry erasemarker board or whatever.
So, um, that is definitelysomething that's so important
and it really helps like kind ofbring everything together for
(24:20):
them.
Melissa (24:21):
Is there anything else about like that you're doing
during this intervention timethat you wanted to share?
Linsey Jones (24:27):
We do a lot of repetition and a lot of feedback
.
So I think when you don't use astructured program and you're
really going off what thestudent needs at that particular
time, you have to be reallygood at providing feedback that
they need at that particulartime.
It's not like, oh, you wereclose on that or oh, nope, this
(24:50):
is the word They'll get it.
Melissa (24:52):
They'll get it later, yeah.
Linsey Jones (24:54):
Right.
So you have to be reallyspecific with the type of
feedback that you give thestudents.
So that would be kind ofanother thing that takes a
little bit of getting used to.
And I know if I have internsthey're kind of like this is
sort of foreign to me.
I don't know how to instruct,but I think a lot of it is
(25:15):
intuitive.
We just have to kind of likebring that out in ourselves.
Melissa (25:20):
All right.
So I just want to bring it backto the assessments again.
So you know you said you'recontinue to be responsive to
students needs throughout, andyou know, I'm sure there's
probably a point too where yousay like I don't think they need
this intervention anymore.
So what does the assessmentlook like along the way for you
to continue making thosedecisions?
Linsey Jones (25:39):
Yeah, so we provide frequent progress
monitoring on our students andit goes in line with their
baseline data that we alreadycollected in the fall, right.
So everything's reallystreamlined for our teachers
because the point is not to givethem one more thing to do,
right?
We want to streamline all ofthis, so we've been really
(26:00):
intentional about doing that andall of our data kind of aligns
with the report card, so we'renot duplicating things and just
the whole headache of that.
So once we have that baselinedata and we're seeing the
students, then we'll progressmonitor them and after about
like eight to nine weeks we'llmeet.
I'll have a meeting with ourkindergarten teachers to kind of
(26:20):
look at the data.
Sometimes we'll have additionallike standardized data if the
testing kind of falls in thatarea, and we'll update.
We have everybody on like anExcel sheet so we can kind of
track how they are progressing.
So we have got like real-timedata right there of exactly
where the students are, andthat's some of the feedback from
the teachers is that they knowexactly where their kids are all
(26:43):
the time and how great that is.
They can just like pick up andgo with them, and so we will
kind of say, okay, this kiddohas made really great progress
in tier one and tier two.
They can go back to tier one.
They don't need my servicesanymore.
Um, but this kiddo is notresponding as much in tier one,
so we'll put them into tier two.
Um, and then some kids justneed to stay where they're at in
(27:06):
tier two, right, like they're,they're progressing, but they're
not quite where they need to be.
So, um, several times a yearwe'll look at all the data and
kind of move kids in and outthat way, and of course, kids
move into the district too, sothose are usually the kids that
we need to get in right away.
Lori (27:23):
Yeah, so important for that flexibility.
I'm really glad that youbrought that up and that it is
not just a one way street intotier two and that the I mean the
obvious idea is to get themwhat they need and then send
them back out.
So exactly to that, to that umeffect, would you mind sharing
what kind of progress yourstudents have made?
Linsey Jones (27:44):
Oh my gosh, this is like the most exciting.
Lori (27:47):
Yeah, this is your brag fest.
Linsey Jones (27:48):
Go ahead.
I know, I know this is so cool.
Okay, so this is the end of ouryear here in Michigan and we
have about 180 kindergartenstudents district-wide and we
have a very, very, very smallpercentage of kids who are
currently underperforming.
(28:10):
So we have only about one to 2%of all of the kids in our
district that areunderperforming.
So we have only about one to 2%of all of the kids in our
district that areunderperforming.
All of the others know all oftheir letter sounds.
They are mastering areas ofphonemic awareness.
They can blend and segment CBCwords.
They are into decodables.
It is really incredible to seetheir progress and to see how
(28:31):
excited they are that they'rereaders and they can read this
book and they're going to gohome and show mom and dad how to
read this book and it feelsamazing to be able to send those
kids to first grade knowingthat they are just, they have
built such a strong foundation.
So and these, this, thatpercentage includes kids that
(28:52):
have recently moved into ourdistrict and also kids with IEPs
, so even kids withdevelopmental language
disabilities, things like that.
They're all progressing andkind of to talk about what we
talked about earlier they lookall very similar.
So there's not this hugediscrepancy of skills with our
(29:15):
kiddos.
They look all very, verysimilar.
So even the kids who are stillin that underperforming range,
they're pretty close to wheretheir peers are too.
Melissa (29:24):
Are the first grade teachers just ecstatic about
this?
Yeah.
Linsey Jones (29:28):
Yeah, yeah.
We keep telling them, like, getready, this is going to be the
group to watch, because wereally have like nailed it this
year with this group Um and yeahit, they're pretty excited
about it.
So even this um, our firstgrade group, now the teachers
have said that they've never hada more prepared group Um, but
(29:48):
this kindergarten group, movingon, is going to just blow them,
blow them away.
So we're really excited for itand I, and what's also
interesting is that we havethree buildings in our district
and all of the kids, regardlessof the building that they're in,
regardless of the teacher thatthey have, they're all
progressing the same way.
So our buildings, you know,oftentimes can look different in
(30:09):
in districts and sometimes theycan have more um, you know
bilingual students or more, youknow a transient population or
or whatever, and all of ourstudents, they look so similar.
Melissa (30:24):
Yeah, that is just so exciting.
You should, you should be veryproud.
Linsey Jones (30:27):
We're all so excited and it's been like a
such a team effort I mean, thethe kindergarten teachers are so
great to just be like yeah,take them whenever you want do
whatever you want, so they'vebeen.
They've been really helpfulalong this ride.
Melissa (30:41):
So I love that you talked to us about this and you
really had this like continuousimprovement mindset of like you
know, you started something twoyears ago.
Let's see what works, whatdoesn't work, we're going to
change it for the second year.
And then you even said you knowyou're going into your third
year and you want to make evenmore changes to this, to really
refine it.
So can you talk to us a littlebit about that?
(31:02):
Like what have you changedalong the way?
And like what are the, what arethe things you're even going to
refine for this upcoming year?
Linsey Jones (31:08):
Yeah.
So along with Julia Linsey work, we really went to working at
that phoneme level skill a lotfaster than we have before.
So right out the gate in thefall we're going to continue to
move right at that phoneme levelwork for blending and
segmenting.
Of course you know they'relearning it for the first time
(31:30):
as new kindergartners.
So we do a lot of scaffoldingwith, like I said, visuals and
things like that.
So we'll continue to do that.
But we will also incorporatemore encoding this year too.
So we did a lot of that, but itwas more towards like the
second half of the year and Ithink this fall we'll get going
with that right away.
So working really at thephoneme level and encoding,
(31:54):
bringing a little bit more ofthat in like immediately.
We're also going to providelike an intervention gap right
in the fall with our new to befirst graders.
So we have all the data on themand we know who's kind of in
that lower, you know, 25thpercentile, and so we'll be able
(32:14):
to not form our newkindergarten groups yet but
we'll be able to provideprobably like a four to five
week intervention bump for thosefirst graders coming in who had
gotten the intervention lastyear, but might just need a
little bit of that summer sliderefresher right.
So we're planning on doing thatalso, and I know the first
(32:37):
grade teachers are reallylooking forward to that.
Melissa (32:41):
That's so exciting.
And just to clarify on theencoding, we're talking about
writing here, correct?
Yes, sorry, yep, no, it's okay.
Just clarifying for everybodylistening.
Linsey Jones (32:50):
Yeah, that handwriting is such an important
piece.
So, yeah, we need to get tothat, I think a little bit
sooner this fall.
Lori (32:58):
Would you be able to walk us through like what that four
to five week summer sliderefresodable pieces, like the
decodable book pieces?
Linsey Jones (33:17):
right away and we'll go back to just some
general CVC blending andsegmenting and then maybe do
that for like one to two weekswith some handwriting pieces in
there, and then we'll be able tokind of go to all right now
let's put this into context, andwhen we have our book in front
of us, like how do we get goingon reading this word, um?
(33:40):
And so I'm hoping that by theend of that um, that four to
five week, uh, intervention bump, that there'll be kind of back
to where they finished in thefall or in the spring of this
year.
Lori (33:55):
Got it.
Okay, I love the.
I love that you called it arefresher.
I'm here for that name If youwant to trademark it.
I think it's great.
An intervention refresher forfirst grade intervention
refresher yeah, those pieces areimportant.
I like doing it out of contextand then popping it in just like
very briefly Right, but thengetting right back into context
as quickly as possible.
Linsey Jones (34:14):
Yep, yep, and we know like it's not going to be a
ton of kids.
So we can really focus on thosekiddos that are kind of in that
lower quadrant in particular,because there's just not a ton
of them.
So we can really spend thattime that we need in the fall to
focus on what their skills areand get them kind of back up and
going in the fall to focus onwhat their skills are and get
(34:36):
them kind of back up and goingand then say, okay, now just do
your tier one thing and thenwe'll get our new kindergarten
group intervention going.
So, yeah, that's.
I think that's what the fallwill probably look like.
Lori (34:46):
I love that you've already got it planned.
That's amazing.
All right, Linsey.
So if you could give a piece ofadvice to a teacher listening
who wants to really strengthentheir early reading intervention
, but they don't know where tobegin, what would you say to
them?
Linsey Jones (35:03):
Collaborate with others, right.
So we're all bringing a wealthof information to our field, but
in different ways.
So I can never do some of thethings that the classroom
teacher does and, um, and, withthat being said, I'm bringing in
a lot of things that they maynot know about either.
So collaboration is really abig thing and you don't have to
(35:23):
do it all on your own right.
The classroom teachers, theyhave so much that they're doing,
um, and they're trying to, youknow, put out this fire and that
fire and all the things, and sotaking that collaborative
approach with professionals inyour building is really really
helpful.
So I would kind of start thereand then let that data guide
your decision making.
So that was one thing we reallyhoned a lot.
(35:46):
This, the last couple of years,is like where what is our data
telling us?
And a lot of times we need helpwith that right.
So we need to rely on peoplethat are kind of experts in the
data field, like SLPs or schoolpsychologists, things like that,
to kind of really streamlinethat data collection process,
(36:06):
and so that has been anotherpiece that has been that I would
kind of recommend to otherschool educators.
The other thing I would say islike put forth action on it,
right?
So a lot of times we talk aboutearly intervention and how
important it is, but we reallyneed to look at what the
(36:28):
research is telling us and thengo with it, do it, you know, put
it into action.
There's a lot of times wherestudents will make okay progress
in intervention, but maybe it'sbecause we're not really
focused on exactly what theyneed or best practices, and so
if we really focus on thosepieces, then we can make a ton
of movement with kids, can makea ton of movement with kids.
(36:55):
So kind of putting thatresearch, best practices into
action is another thing that hasbeen really really important
that I would say focus on.
Melissa (37:00):
Linsey, I want to talk a little more about that
collaboration that you mentioned, especially because you know
Lori and I are going to we'regoing to be speech language
pathologists soon.
Of course, no, but seriously Ithink, oftentimes I feel like
you know, the speech languagepathologist is doing their thing
in the school and our teachersare doing their thing and
they're, and you know we end upin these silos of just doing our
(37:21):
things.
So I'm wondering, like if youhad any advice for teachers who
might be thinking like how can I, you know, how can I work with
my speech language pathologistmore effectively or a speech
language pathologist who mighthave that same interest you did
of?
Like you know, I'm interestedin early reading.
How can they make that, thatcollaboration happen?
What advice would you givethere?
Linsey Jones (37:43):
So that's an interesting one, right, because
everyone's pulled in so manydifferent directions that
sometimes you don't know whatquestions to ask or what this
person could help you with orwhat you can learn from.
You know another individual.
So I think really getting tounderstand, like different
people's roles in the schools isreally important and what they
(38:04):
can bring to the table.
So yeah, I mean speechpathologists.
Like we can provide a wholeclassroom lessons on what sounds
, what like are the features ofthis sound?
Or maybe kids are strugglingand we see this a lot in the
fall the concept of first andlast what's the first sound,
(38:24):
what's the last sound?
And with the last sound theyalways give you the first sound,
right, and so that's a languageconcept.
That is something that speechpathologists teach day in, day
out are those prepositions andspatial terms and all of that
kind of stuff.
So we can really help with that.
Where you think maybe they justaren't putting all of the pieces
together, but really, when itboils down to what they're not
(38:47):
understanding, it really couldjust be how would what?
How would the speechpathologist kind of teach this
Um and whole group is great, um,they can even, you know, do
some quick little lessons, um,with small group too.
So, yeah, I I lovecollaboration with our teachers
and and I think the more you doit, the more you learn from it.
(39:07):
And I learned from ourclassroom teachers all the time
on just good general instructionand I think the more you do it,
the better you get at it andthe more you can kind of like
pull those people in when youneed them at that particular
time.
Melissa (39:23):
I'll say every time we talk to someone that has this
collaboration between theirspeech, language pathologist and
especially the kindergartenteachers, we see that their data
is just like.
The kids are where they need tobe.
Lori (39:34):
It's through the roof is how I would describe it.
It's like a hundred percent,you know.
I mean that's the average ofthis collaboration.
So if you're a primary teacherout there, go grab your speech
language pathologist and getchatting.
You know, make a plan now,cause we've got tons of time
before the school year startsnext year.
Then you're you gave so manypractical ideas and how.
(39:57):
You know really what youfocused on and I feel like none
of it's really like shocking forkindergarten teachers.
You know it's just maybegetting at something faster or
incorporating multiplemodalities or really effective
15 minute boom intervention andmultiple, just structure right,
some specific structures.
So, oh my gosh, there's so muchto think about after this.
Linsey Jones (40:18):
Yeah, but it really has like broad impacts
across the school.
So, um, when you think aboutthose MTSS meetings that you
have, or child study teammeetings, whatever your district
calls them, right, we can makesuch better informed decisions
based on the information that wehave.
And to say that they've been inyou know tier two services for
this amount of time and this istheir progress, and and really
(40:39):
look at like, where did theystart and where are they now?
And is that expected progress?
Like do we?
Are they closing the gap?
And that's another thing thatwe have found with this program
is you always talk about thelearning gap, the learning gap,
but with this early intervention, we are not only closing the
learning gap, but we'reeliminating it, like it's gone,
right.
And so the kids who really needto be discussed at those MTSS
(41:04):
meetings are there.
It's very clear, right, it'svery clear.
You've got this huge group ofkids trending in this direction
and then we've got like one ortwo or very small group of kids
who are really not responding tothat.
Lori (41:17):
tier two intervention, which is the actual percentage
of what the data says should betrue, right.
Linsey Jones (41:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But the decision-making processthen becomes so clear.
You know, do we move to aspecial ed evaluation?
And it's just, it's not aboutsomeone's opinion or this or
that, it is just totallydata-driven and you feel better
about that decision because youcan rely on that data kind of
(41:43):
leading you to where you need togo with the particular child.
Melissa (41:48):
Yeah, and it reminds me of you know, this idea of you
know, not waiting until they getto third grade.
And then now, all of a sudden,you're like, oh my gosh, we have
so many students that need thisintervention.
What do we even do?
Because there's so many?
And you really, I want to say Iread a book called Upstream.
That was about this, like whereyou're catching them so early,
right that you're catching themright where they need it, before
(42:11):
it becomes a bigger problem,that you know, downstream down
the road, you're going to have amanageable amount of students
who really need thatintervention versus you know,
you let it go in kindergartenand just like they'll get it in
first grade, don't worry,they'll catch up.
And then, all of a sudden,you're like, oh my gosh, we have
so many students that needright second, third, fourth,
(42:33):
fifth grade, then isn't, ischaos.
I don't know how else todescribe it right Really give
them what they need, because youhave too many students that
need a lot.
Lori (42:42):
And too many years and too many skills to.
I mean not just years, but toomany years of quote falling
behind, too many skills to quotecatch up and fill in gaps.
I mean you're just spending allyour time backfilling but also
then you're not getting thecontent that they need for that
grade and it just continues togap you know, yep, and classroom
(43:03):
teachers have becomeoverwhelmed.
Linsey Jones (43:04):
And then intervention it's very
overwhelming, yeah, they're full, they can't take any more kids,
right.
And then your resource roomteachers they're full, their
classrooms are full, and it'slike, ah, what do we do with
this?
And I'm really hoping that wecan show that we can reduce
those numbers and then the kidswho you know are kind of left to
(43:28):
really to really require, um,that programming.
You have the capacity to reallyspend the time that you, that
you can or you need to with them.
Lori (43:38):
This is such a proactive versus a reactive approach and I
mean that's how MTSS was meantto be right.
Those tiers were meant to beproactive and you know,
unfortunately, I think currentlysometimes they're used in a
reactive.
But I'm so glad to lift thisstory up of you having this
proactive approach for not justyour school but several schools
(44:03):
right, and you're really able toget in there, see what's needed
based on the assessments, andthen lift up the students that
need that support with a lot offlexibility.
So I mean, you're doing amazingwork, Linsey, and we are so
grateful that you came on toshare.
Is there anything else you wantto share before we go?
Linsey Jones (44:22):
I will second that we yeah, we often operate under
that reactive approach right,and the more that we're doing
this and seeing that proactivekind of initiative and getting
these kids early, the more we'reseeing that, wow, they're
really responding to this andit's working.
It's really working.
So we're just really happy withall the results that we're
(44:43):
getting and we're excited tokeep going with it.
Melissa (44:46):
Well, thank you so much for sharing on our podcast
today with many people that willbe grateful to hear this from
you.
We really appreciate your timeand all that you're doing for
your students.
Linsey Jones (44:56):
Oh, thank you.
Thank you.
It's awesome to kind of sharethis with everybody.
So, yeah, you can do it, it'snot hard, I love it.
Melissa (45:07):
To stay connected with us, sign up for our email list
at literacypodcastcom, join ourFacebook group and follow us on
Instagram and Twitter.
Lori (45:17):
If this episode resonated with you, take a moment to share
with a teacher friend or leaveus a five-star rating and review
on Apple Podcasts.
Melissa (45:27):
Just a quick reminder that the views and opinions
expressed by the hosts andguests of the Melissa and Lori
Love Literacy podcast are notnecessarily the opinions of
Great Minds PBC or its employees.
Lori (45:39):
We appreciate you so much and we're so glad you're here to
learn with us.
Thank you.
Addressing students' reading needs early makes all
the difference.
That's why we're so excited foryou to hear from Linsey Jones,
a speech-language pathologist,doing incredible work with
kindergartners through a smart,research-based intervention.
Lori (00:17):
Linsey shares how she identifies students for support,
what her targeted small groupsessions look like and the real
growth she's seeing.
You'll leave this episode withpractical ideas and a lot of
inspiration to take back to yourown classroom or school.
Hi, teacher friends.
I'm Lori and I'm Melissa.
(00:37):
We are two educators who wantthe best for all kids, and we
know you do too.
Melissa (00:44):
We worked together in Baltimore when the district
adopted a new literacycurriculum.
Lori (00:49):
We realized there was so much more to learn about how to
teach reading and writing.
Melissa (00:54):
Lori, and I can't wait to keep learning with you today.
Lori (01:00):
Hi Linsey, Welcome to the podcast.
Linsey Jones (01:03):
Hi ladies, Thanks for having me.
I'm so excited to be here today.
Lori (01:07):
Yeah, we're so excited to dig in with you about all the
amazing work that you're doing.
Linsey Jones (01:13):
Oh, thank you so much.
Yeah, I'm excited to share itwith your viewers.
Melissa (01:17):
Yeah, and so, Linsey, you're a speech-language
pathologist and you're doingthis really powerful work with
early reading intervention,which is not always where speech
language pathologists end up,but you're doing this work with
kindergartners.
So I'm wondering if you canjust share a little bit about
how your role as a speechlanguage pathologist actually
led you to this readingintervention.
Linsey Jones (01:40):
Yeah.
So I think it's actually kindof a neat story how everything
kind of came together.
So early literacy has alwayskind of been a strong interest
area of mine.
But the field of speechpathology is so vast and it's so
big that sometimes we can'treally like hone into certain
interest areas that we have asmuch because we have to service,
(02:02):
you know, large caseloads anddo evaluations and therapy and
all the things.
But I think since COVID I'venoticed an increase in the
number of students that weservice, their complexity of
needs, and so I kept going backto like early literacy and early
intervention and how could wecatch these kids a little bit
(02:22):
earlier and maybe make an impactlike long-term on you know, the
workload and the caseload thatwe have in a school because it's
big for everybody, right?
So I developed actually twointervention programs.
The one we'll talk about isobviously the one that deals
with phonics, but I also haveanother one that deals with
speech, sound interventionsspecifically for SLPs.
(02:45):
Um, and you know we piloted theprograms.
They had great success.
Um, as speech pathologists weare experts in differentiated
instruction, so that really lentitself well to developing the
program and really like honingit and making it the most
effective thing we could make ofit.
(03:05):
And so, as we were developingthat, I really had to put a lot
of trust in like ourkindergarten teachers and our
literacy coaches and things likethat and rely on kind of a
collaboration model to get thisup and going and to be
successful.
So that's kind of a littlebackground of like how a speech
pathologist finds themselves inthis like world of literacy.
(03:26):
You know, obviously languageand literacy they overlap a lot,
but SLPs aren't oftentimes likethe lead person doing an
intervention that has to focuson phonics and language language
.
Melissa (03:40):
So yeah, overlap was the exact word I had in my mind
and I was thinking back to.
We actually had a kindergartenteacher on years ago who talked
about how she worked with herschool's SLP to, you know,
refine the work she was doing inthe classroom.
So there's just so much overlapbetween the work you all do
regularly and what's happeningin a kindergarten, first grade
(04:03):
classroom for sure.
Linsey Jones (04:04):
Yeah, there is and I think a lot of people don't
fully realize that all the timebecause they think you know
we're working on sounds andthings like that kind of the
traditional SLP role.
But we really are trained in somany things phonics,
phonological awareness, languageyou know that language piece
that comes in with readingcomprehension, I mean it's all
(04:24):
kind of intertwined, obviously.
So.
Melissa (04:26):
And I'm wondering too.
You mentioned, you know, oftenfor intervention people just
usually just want to go to aprogram, right, Like, which
program should I adopt?
My students need help.
But I'm wondering what made youwant to create your own pro?
You know you said you developedthis program, so what made you
want to do that, instead of justusing something that was
already out there?
Linsey Jones (04:46):
Yeah, that is a question I get asked all the
time, like what program are youusing?
What program are you using?
And I want to be like superclear that at a tier one level,
a program and a curriculum isawesome, right, you need
something that is really rootedin.
Who's going to benefit mostfrom this and how are we going
to capture the most number ofkids with this instruction?
(05:07):
So great for tier one, right,we want a really robust
curriculum or program there.
But for tier two, when you'rereally looking at, why are these
kids not responding to thistier one or why is it taking
them longer to maybe respond tothe tier one instruction, them
longer to maybe respond to thetier one instruction?
You know we really want todifferentiate and so programs
(05:28):
can be a helpful guide, but theydon't always lend itself to be
flexible and responsive to whatthe particular student needs.
And as SLPs, we differentiateall day, every day, and very
rarely will we, will you find anSLP using a like quote program
(05:50):
and and so the data reallydrives our instruction and it
drives our therapy.
And so I wasn't.
It felt kind of natural to notadopt like a program but really
listen to what the data wastelling us, and kind of develop
like sort of like a treatmentplan from there sort of for our
students.
Lori (06:09):
That is amazing.
I feel like every time I talkwith a speech language
pathologist, I want to just saylike you make you all make me
want to go back to school to bea speech language pathologist.
Melissa (06:20):
I feel the same way I asked.
I've been.
I looked at programs the otherday too.
Lori (06:25):
After talking with Linsey on our pre-call, Come join come
join the field.
Come join the field, melissa andI will just do it together.
One more thing I that I ropeher into, all right.
So we know that.
You know this is hard work.
You're making it sound easy.
You're like, yeah, I developedthis program, we implemented
this, or not program we?
I developed and implementedthis intervention I should say
(06:47):
intervention program for maybelack of better word.
But you know, we also know thatyou've got some help along the
way.
You shared that you worked withJulia Linsey, who is a friend
of the podcast.
She's the author of readingabove the fray.
She's been on our podcast a fewtimes but I'm wondering if you
could share how her work hasinfluenced the phonics and the
(07:08):
speech sound instructionhappening at your school and
what you've implemented in thisintervention.
Linsey Jones (07:15):
So Julia has been such an awesome resource for me.
She has influenced my program tobe the most like streamlined
and effective thing that it canpossibly be, and I know that our
students have benefited so muchfrom her guidance and her
research on what gives you themost return on investment,
(07:36):
what's the best bang for yourbuck when you're working with
these students, because we don'thave a lot of time with them,
right.
So our interventions are intense, they're short, and so we want
to make sure, like, what do weprioritize, what is our sequence
of skills and how do we reallymaximize instruction?
Her research and you know, justkind of ability to bounce
(07:59):
things off of her like bounceideas off of her has been so
very, very helpful.
So she participated in someprofessional development with
our district and that's kind ofhow I got to know her initially.
So she's been great to kind ofhelp balance that research
driven instruction and practicalapplication of that right,
(08:19):
because we can have all theresearch studies we want but if
we can't implement them, thenit's, you know, not very helpful
.
So she's been great to kind ofhelp me bridge that gap.
Lori (08:31):
Yeah, I.
Actually.
One thing that I think about isresearchers who are able to
really speak the language ofteachers.
I love talking with them themost because I feel like it's,
so it helps me understand whatI'm actually supposed to be
doing better.
So that's kind of what I'mhearing you say, like she's kind
of talking the language ofteachers, like she can interpret
(08:52):
the research but can share itin a way that you're able to
understand and helps youimplement what you're doing.
Linsey Jones (08:58):
Yeah, absolutely, and it's been great to just kind
of see over the last couple ofyears implementing the program
and how it's changed and how Ican just kind of make it better
and more efficient, even thoughwe're getting really great
results anyway.
It just feels so great to knowthat we're doing the best that
we can by our kids and we'regiving them, you know, the most
(09:18):
up to date research andinstruction All right.
Melissa (09:23):
So let's dig into some of that practical stuff that you
talked about.
We want to hear what you'reactually doing and we want to
start with assessments and data.
So, just starting with, youknow we're talking about
kindergarten here.
So these are students who arecoming into school, maybe never
having been to school before,just starting to learn letters
and sounds, and they're just atthe beginning of their journey
(09:45):
on learning how to read.
What kinds of assessments areyou giving, what kind of data
are you looking at and what areyou looking for in that data to
know who needs this intervention?
Linsey Jones (09:57):
So that is a wonderful question and something
that we've kind of worked ondeveloping over the last couple
of years of like how do wecollect data that is really
meaningful for us as well?
So all of our kindergartnersare screened in the fall right
when they come in.
We have a team of people thatlook at kind of a multi-layer of
(10:17):
assessments.
So we look at some standardizedassessments, we look at some
phonemic awareness assessments,we look at some classroom
awareness assessments, we lookat some classroom-based teacher
data like letter, soundidentification, that kind of
thing.
And you know, these kiddos thatare coming in are they have such
a wide variety of skills thatsometimes you've got kids that
(10:37):
know all their letters and alltheir sounds and maybe they've
been to a preschool program, andthen you've got other kids who
this is their first schoolexperience and so they're really
kind of behind the eight ballalready in comparison to their
peers.
And so we really try to combinethis quantitative data with
teacher observation to get awell-rounded picture of what our
(10:59):
cohort looks like, and wereally want to flag those kids
early that may be a little bitbehind so we can catch them up
to speed on to where they are.
So we really look at, you know,kind of like I said, a
multi-layer assessment data, andthen the nice thing about
having this on all of ourkindergarten students across the
(11:20):
whole district is that we cansee what our cohort looks like
as a group.
So everyone is going to bedifferent, right.
But if we look at them as anentire, for our district we have
10 classrooms, 10 kindergartenclassrooms, and if we look at
them, okay, where, where's,what's their learning profile,
what's their kind of literacyprofile, right?
(11:41):
So we can kind of get that oneach and every one of our kids.
Lori (11:50):
Yeah, I think one of the things that stands out to me and
I feel like this would be aresounding answer from every
kindergarten teacher, every SLPwho works with kindergarten
students is just the variance inthe students coming in and just
they're all kind of all overthe place in their acquisition
of skills, and so that I I'mjust thinking about how your
(12:11):
strategy to just get in thereand to close the gap as quickly
as possible, right when itstarts, and like actually kind
of like proactively do this isreally important.
Linsey Jones (12:22):
Yes, it is, and it it's easier to do when they're
younger, right, you have lessroom to make up, and so, um, and
and we'll talk, I'm sure, alittle bit about this a little
bit later but what we're findingis that by the time these
kiddos are finishingkindergarten, they don't look
that different from one another,so the variance has become very
small.
(12:43):
Which impacts has?
Like global impacts, right,like instruction, tier one
instruction and fewer kids inintervention.
So, yeah, they start off with ahuge scatterplot of skills and
as the year progresses, theylook.
The kids in my tier two programlook almost indistinguishable
(13:03):
from the tier one kids, which isawesome.
Melissa (13:06):
That is amazing.
Yes, and we'll talk more aboutthat later, for sure.
I am curious.
I just want to stamp, though Isthe biggest thing?
You're looking for the lettersound knowledge.
Linsey Jones (13:17):
Okay.
So that is one of the big thingsthat we definitely look at is
letter, sound knowledge andidentification.
But we're also looking at earlyphonemic awareness skills and we
do like a kind of a battery ofsubtest assessments with that
and where we look at where theirskills are and kind of how they
(13:42):
deviate from their peers inthat way.
So they're coming intokindergarten.
We don't expect them to be ableto blend and segment a CVC word
right, Like that's not what weare expecting them to do.
But when we look at the wholegroup we can say, okay, this
cluster of kids, they lookdifferent than their peers as
far as the data goes.
So they're lookingstatistically significantly
(14:03):
different from their peers asfar as the data goes.
So they're lookingstatistically significantly
different from their peers.
And that's how it kind of helpsus identify, you know, if they
need to be in a tier two programor not.
So we look for those skill gapsand then kind of form our
groups from there.
We do this in a couple cyclesthroughout the year, but that's
what it kind of looks like inthe fall initially.
Lori (14:24):
Okay.
So, Linsey, once students areidentified for support, you've
done this robust battery ofassessments what does your tier
two intervention really looklike?
I mean, I know you said it'snot a program, it's driven by
what students need, but whatdoes that look like in actual
practice every day in theclassroom?
Like I have so many questionsabout this.
(14:44):
Does that look like in actualpractice every day in the
classroom?
Like I have so many questionsabout this?
Who's who's doing theintervention?
When is it happening?
How often, you know?
Is it in small groups?
Is it in, uh, you know, maybe asemi whole group situate, like
what happens?
So can you tell us all thedetails here?
Linsey Jones (14:57):
Yeah, like, what are the nitty gritty?
Right?
Like, how does it?
How does it look?
So, um, I do all of ourintervention for our district.
So, like I said, we have 10kindergarten classrooms.
It's across three buildings, soI'm kind of all over the place.
But it's fun, we make it workright, like it's great.
Sometimes I do have the help ofSLP interns.
(15:18):
So I do work collaborativelywith some local universities
here and I do take studentinterns, like in the fall and in
the spring, and they are veryhelpful in data collection,
they're very helpful in forminggroups and things like that.
So really, once we haveidentified these group of kids
that need to be receiving tiertwo instruction, we'll kind of
(15:40):
divide them by skill gap level.
So like, what do they need helpwith?
So are they really showing aneed for letter sound
identification or are theylooking really different from
their peers and being able toidentify the first sound in a
word, things like that?
So we'll kind of separate themby group that way, and then it's
(16:01):
kind of off to the races.
So I'll see them about two tothree times a week for 15
minutes a piece and it'stypically in small group format.
It's not a lot of whole group.
So a couple of years ago wemade some videos that really
focus on like the articulatoryfeatures of sounds and things
like that that teachers can playfor more of like tier one
(16:24):
instruction, just kind of asanother resource.
So we don't do a lot of wholegroup and mostly because our
tier one instruction is reallyrobust anyway.
So they're doing not only liketheir ELA curriculum but we also
supplement with a phonemicawareness program.
So they get a lot of that andthen it's sort of you know,
(16:46):
skill targeted after that.
So, yeah, I'll see him a coupletimes a week for 15 minutes.
Small group, probably two tothree kids.
As we get going in the year.
If we see that someone needsmore individualized instruction,
then it's very easy to just seethat kiddo one-on-one.
So we can very easily makeadjustments that way based on
(17:08):
what they need.
Melissa (17:10):
Linsey, I love that you keep it short, because I have a
kindergartner at home and Iknow more than 15 minutes would
be.
You know, on one thing, it canbe a challenge for sure.
I'm wondering how do you makethe most of that time and really
get it?
I'm just going to sidetrackreal quick.
So my son does martial arts andit's only 30 minutes long and
(17:30):
they do so much in that 30minutes.
I'm always shocked.
I'm like how did they do allthat with these little guys?
You know, and and I'm justwondering how do you, how do you
do that with the little onesand like, get the most out of
that 15 minutes?
Lori (17:44):
Yes, Can I?
Can I jump in, Like, do youhave a specific like routine
that you can share?
I'm just curious.
Maybe, maybe not, but is itlike in 15 minutes I'm going to
do bop, bop, bop, bop?
It's like a four-step routine,a five-step routine, a
three-step routine or it'sdifferent.
Like you said, it's differentfor each group of kids.
Linsey Jones (18:02):
Yeah, no, that's a great question because it's not
just like you open a manual andyou're on lesson one, right,
and then you do this instruction.
So it does look a lot different.
So in the fall maybe we'refocused a little bit more on
letter sound identification oridentifying the first sound in a
word, whereas now we'rewrapping up the year and our
kids are past segmenting andblending, they're on to like
(18:26):
decodable books and things likethat.
So the sessions look reallydifferent depending on the time
of the year.
But super brief, really highlyfocused, um, we're working
really on blending, segmentingand incorporating letters, um
like physical letters, intoevery session that we have.
So those are kind of like thethree main areas that we really
(18:48):
want to focus on.
Sometimes if we have to likeback up to teach a concept, then
we can do that easily.
But those are really the threebig areas that we want to hit
every single time Blending,segmenting and then those
letters and sounds, kind ofcombining all of that together.
(19:08):
And I will say one thing that Ihave done this year is I've
really incorporated like amultisensory approach into every
single session that I have withkids.
So what are your articulatorsdoing?
How are they moving.
What is working when you makethis sound?
I see a lot of speech relatederrors with my kids, even if
(19:32):
they don't have speech andlanguage needs at all.
So, for example, they'll putvoicing in when there shouldn't
be voicing in a sound or, youknow, they'll mix up like an M
and an N.
You know some letters that arevery similar.
I see it all the time, and sousing a multisensory approach
where we incorporate a lot ofpictures along with like
(19:54):
physical manipulators that weincorporate a lot of pictures
along with like physicalmanipulators that has made a
world of difference with ourkids.
So I'm sure to include that inevery session we do.
Lori (20:03):
That's so neat.
So are you talking about?
And just for clarification,because when you say you know
physical manipulators, are youmeaning like you touch something
?
And I'm obviously thinking whenyou're saying a picture.
It's almost like a, like asound wall card where you can
like see right, see the mouthand where it should be.
(20:24):
For example, if I'm sayingremember, and I have a kid
saying remember, I'm going to beable to see that on right on
the sound card.
But what would be like aphysical manipulator?
Linsey Jones (20:37):
Like a letter tile , something like that.
How would you use that?
Like, how does that work, okay,so, yeah, so an example of what
this would look like.
Let's say we're going to blendand segment, like a CVC word,
like man or something like that.
So I will have, kind of like um, some placeholders for each
sound right, kind of like theboxes that we would use.
(20:59):
Sure, like I'll code in boxesYep, yep, um.
But at the beginning, wherewe're trying to figure out, okay
, what does our mouth do, first,in the word man, I'm going to
have like a sound wall picture,um, to have them start so they
know how their mouth is starting.
Um.
And then, similarly, at the end, I'm going to have them start
so they know how their mouth isstarting.
And then, similarly, at the end, I'm going to have a sound wall
picture that has the picturefor N, so they know how their
(21:22):
mouth is ending.
And I find that when kids arereally starting to first
understand that concept ofblending and segmenting, they
get the segmenting right andthen they go to blend it and
they're like wait, what does mymouth need to do?
And having that visual therekind of takes that cognitive
load off of them to be able tolike oh yeah, I need to put my
(21:44):
lips together and do this.
So, um, I use actually I made mydaughter um, do these pictures
for me, cause I wanted more likerobust picture cards, and so I
mean to take all these pictures.
I'm like do an S, do a TH, dothis sound, do this sound.
And so that's actually what Iuse with all of my kids, because
I can then talk about how thesound is made.
(22:06):
Is it a stream of air?
Is it a pop of air that'scoming out?
Is it continuous sound?
Is it made in the front of themouth, the back of the mouth, so
, um, so we talk a lot aboutthat.
So the multisensory piece is ahuge um, a huge part of every
single session, and if you'vedone letters training, I mean,
that is like the whole pieces ishow um important you know
(22:32):
articulatory features are, andit is big.
Lori (22:34):
Yeah, and I would you also use mirrors in there too, so
they can see themselves.
Linsey Jones (22:39):
Yep, and they love that right.
They're kindergartners and theyare like oh, I love this.
Lori (22:44):
It's fascinating where your mouth is moving and you
know when you're six.
Try to make a sound.
Linsey Jones (22:48):
It's amazing you know that's funny that you said
that, though, because at thebeginning in the fall, there is
a lot of it Does your mouthmatch this picture mouth Right?
So if they are going to do someearly like sound identification
and a CVC word, does your mouthfor the S sound match this?
(23:09):
You know, picture wall, picture, and even the concept of does
it match, does it not match issomething that takes some time
for them to learn, so I thinkanytime you can incorporate
visuals and like a mirror andthings like that, it really
helps them a lot.
Melissa (23:26):
Linsey, I'm also curious about handwriting, like,
do you have them writingletters?
Because I mean this is new tothem too, right, and that can be
a challenge for ourkindergartners.
Linsey Jones (23:36):
Yeah, yeah, so, along with some of the
activities that I kind of likemade for my kiddos, is
definitely a handwritingcomponent, and in the fall it
might look a little bit morelike tracing right, because
they're going to get handwritingin their tier one instruction
but then in tier two, how can wemake sure that they're really
forming those letters correctly?
(23:57):
And so we may segment a word,um, associate the letter tiles
to the sounds, and then theytrace um the particular word on,
like a, you know, a dry erasemarker board or whatever.
So, um, that is definitelysomething that's so important
and it really helps like kind ofbring everything together for
(24:20):
them.
Melissa (24:21):
Is there anything else about like that you're doing
during this intervention timethat you wanted to share?
Linsey Jones (24:27):
We do a lot of repetition and a lot of feedback
.
So I think when you don't use astructured program and you're
really going off what thestudent needs at that particular
time, you have to be reallygood at providing feedback that
they need at that particulartime.
It's not like, oh, you wereclose on that or oh, nope, this
(24:50):
is the word They'll get it.
Melissa (24:52):
They'll get it later, yeah.
Linsey Jones (24:54):
Right.
So you have to be reallyspecific with the type of
feedback that you give thestudents.
So that would be kind ofanother thing that takes a
little bit of getting used to.
And I know if I have internsthey're kind of like this is
sort of foreign to me.
I don't know how to instruct,but I think a lot of it is
(25:15):
intuitive.
We just have to kind of likebring that out in ourselves.
Melissa (25:20):
All right.
So I just want to bring it backto the assessments again.
So you know you said you'recontinue to be responsive to
students needs throughout, andyou know, I'm sure there's
probably a point too where yousay like I don't think they need
this intervention anymore.
So what does the assessmentlook like along the way for you
to continue making thosedecisions?
Linsey Jones (25:39):
Yeah, so we provide frequent progress
monitoring on our students andit goes in line with their
baseline data that we alreadycollected in the fall, right.
So everything's reallystreamlined for our teachers
because the point is not to givethem one more thing to do,
right?
We want to streamline all ofthis, so we've been really
(26:00):
intentional about doing that andall of our data kind of aligns
with the report card, so we'renot duplicating things and just
the whole headache of that.
So once we have that baselinedata and we're seeing the
students, then we'll progressmonitor them and after about
like eight to nine weeks we'llmeet.
I'll have a meeting with ourkindergarten teachers to kind of
(26:20):
look at the data.
Sometimes we'll have additionallike standardized data if the
testing kind of falls in thatarea, and we'll update.
We have everybody on like anExcel sheet so we can kind of
track how they are progressing.
So we have got like real-timedata right there of exactly
where the students are, andthat's some of the feedback from
the teachers is that they knowexactly where their kids are all
(26:43):
the time and how great that is.
They can just like pick up andgo with them, and so we will
kind of say, okay, this kiddohas made really great progress
in tier one and tier two.
They can go back to tier one.
They don't need my servicesanymore.
Um, but this kiddo is notresponding as much in tier one,
so we'll put them into tier two.
Um, and then some kids justneed to stay where they're at in
(27:06):
tier two, right, like they're,they're progressing, but they're
not quite where they need to be.
So, um, several times a yearwe'll look at all the data and
kind of move kids in and outthat way, and of course, kids
move into the district too, sothose are usually the kids that
we need to get in right away.
Lori (27:23):
Yeah, so important for that flexibility.
I'm really glad that youbrought that up and that it is
not just a one way street intotier two and that the I mean the
obvious idea is to get themwhat they need and then send
them back out.
So exactly to that, to that umeffect, would you mind sharing
what kind of progress yourstudents have made?
Linsey Jones (27:44):
Oh my gosh, this is like the most exciting.
Lori (27:47):
Yeah, this is your brag fest.
Linsey Jones (27:48):
Go ahead.
I know, I know this is so cool.
Okay, so this is the end of ouryear here in Michigan and we
have about 180 kindergartenstudents district-wide and we
have a very, very, very smallpercentage of kids who are
currently underperforming.
(28:10):
So we have only about one to 2%of all of the kids in our
district that areunderperforming.
So we have only about one to 2%of all of the kids in our
district that areunderperforming.
All of the others know all oftheir letter sounds.
They are mastering areas ofphonemic awareness.
They can blend and segment CBCwords.
They are into decodables.
It is really incredible to seetheir progress and to see how
(28:31):
excited they are that they'rereaders and they can read this
book and they're going to gohome and show mom and dad how to
read this book and it feelsamazing to be able to send those
kids to first grade knowingthat they are just, they have
built such a strong foundation.
So and these, this, thatpercentage includes kids that
(28:52):
have recently moved into ourdistrict and also kids with IEPs
, so even kids withdevelopmental language
disabilities, things like that.
They're all progressing andkind of to talk about what we
talked about earlier they lookall very similar.
So there's not this hugediscrepancy of skills with our
(29:15):
kiddos.
They look all very, verysimilar.
So even the kids who are stillin that underperforming range,
they're pretty close to wheretheir peers are too.
Melissa (29:24):
Are the first grade teachers just ecstatic about
this?
Yeah.
Linsey Jones (29:28):
Yeah, yeah.
We keep telling them, like, getready, this is going to be the
group to watch, because wereally have like nailed it this
year with this group Um and yeahit, they're pretty excited
about it.
So even this um, our firstgrade group, now the teachers
have said that they've never hada more prepared group Um, but
(29:48):
this kindergarten group, movingon, is going to just blow them,
blow them away.
So we're really excited for itand I, and what's also
interesting is that we havethree buildings in our district
and all of the kids, regardlessof the building that they're in,
regardless of the teacher thatthey have, they're all
progressing the same way.
So our buildings, you know,oftentimes can look different in
(30:09):
in districts and sometimes theycan have more um, you know
bilingual students or more, youknow a transient population or
or whatever, and all of ourstudents, they look so similar.
Melissa (30:24):
Yeah, that is just so exciting.
You should, you should be veryproud.
Linsey Jones (30:27):
We're all so excited and it's been like a
such a team effort I mean, thethe kindergarten teachers are so
great to just be like yeah,take them whenever you want do
whatever you want, so they'vebeen.
They've been really helpfulalong this ride.
Melissa (30:41):
So I love that you talked to us about this and you
really had this like continuousimprovement mindset of like you
know, you started something twoyears ago.
Let's see what works, whatdoesn't work, we're going to
change it for the second year.
And then you even said you knowyou're going into your third
year and you want to make evenmore changes to this, to really
refine it.
So can you talk to us a littlebit about that?
(31:02):
Like what have you changedalong the way?
And like what are the, what arethe things you're even going to
refine for this upcoming year?
Linsey Jones (31:08):
Yeah.
So along with Julia Linsey work, we really went to working at
that phoneme level skill a lotfaster than we have before.
So right out the gate in thefall we're going to continue to
move right at that phoneme levelwork for blending and
segmenting.
Of course you know they'relearning it for the first time
(31:30):
as new kindergartners.
So we do a lot of scaffoldingwith, like I said, visuals and
things like that.
So we'll continue to do that.
But we will also incorporatemore encoding this year too.
So we did a lot of that, but itwas more towards like the
second half of the year and Ithink this fall we'll get going
with that right away.
So working really at thephoneme level and encoding,
(31:54):
bringing a little bit more ofthat in like immediately.
We're also going to providelike an intervention gap right
in the fall with our new to befirst graders.
So we have all the data on themand we know who's kind of in
that lower, you know, 25thpercentile, and so we'll be able
(32:14):
to not form our newkindergarten groups yet but
we'll be able to provideprobably like a four to five
week intervention bump for thosefirst graders coming in who had
gotten the intervention lastyear, but might just need a
little bit of that summer sliderefresher right.
So we're planning on doing thatalso, and I know the first
(32:37):
grade teachers are reallylooking forward to that.
Melissa (32:41):
That's so exciting.
And just to clarify on theencoding, we're talking about
writing here, correct?
Yes, sorry, yep, no, it's okay.
Just clarifying for everybodylistening.
Linsey Jones (32:50):
Yeah, that handwriting is such an important
piece.
So, yeah, we need to get tothat, I think a little bit
sooner this fall.
Lori (32:58):
Would you be able to walk us through like what that four
to five week summer sliderefresodable pieces, like the
decodable book pieces?
Linsey Jones (33:17):
right away and we'll go back to just some
general CVC blending andsegmenting and then maybe do
that for like one to two weekswith some handwriting pieces in
there, and then we'll be able tokind of go to all right now
let's put this into context, andwhen we have our book in front
of us, like how do we get goingon reading this word, um?
(33:40):
And so I'm hoping that by theend of that um, that four to
five week, uh, intervention bump, that there'll be kind of back
to where they finished in thefall or in the spring of this
year.
Lori (33:55):
Got it.
Okay, I love the.
I love that you called it arefresher.
I'm here for that name If youwant to trademark it.
I think it's great.
An intervention refresher forfirst grade intervention
refresher yeah, those pieces areimportant.
I like doing it out of contextand then popping it in just like
very briefly Right, but thengetting right back into context
as quickly as possible.
Linsey Jones (34:14):
Yep, yep, and we know like it's not going to be a
ton of kids.
So we can really focus on thosekiddos that are kind of in that
lower quadrant in particular,because there's just not a ton
of them.
So we can really spend thattime that we need in the fall to
focus on what their skills areand get them kind of back up and
going in the fall to focus onwhat their skills are and get
(34:36):
them kind of back up and goingand then say, okay, now just do
your tier one thing and thenwe'll get our new kindergarten
group intervention going.
So, yeah, that's.
I think that's what the fallwill probably look like.
Lori (34:46):
I love that you've already got it planned.
That's amazing.
All right, Linsey.
So if you could give a piece ofadvice to a teacher listening
who wants to really strengthentheir early reading intervention
, but they don't know where tobegin, what would you say to
them?
Linsey Jones (35:03):
Collaborate with others, right.
So we're all bringing a wealthof information to our field, but
in different ways.
So I can never do some of thethings that the classroom
teacher does and, um, and, withthat being said, I'm bringing in
a lot of things that they maynot know about either.
So collaboration is really abig thing and you don't have to
(35:23):
do it all on your own right.
The classroom teachers, theyhave so much that they're doing,
um, and they're trying to, youknow, put out this fire and that
fire and all the things, and sotaking that collaborative
approach with professionals inyour building is really really
helpful.
So I would kind of start thereand then let that data guide
your decision making.
So that was one thing we reallyhoned a lot.
(35:46):
This, the last couple of years,is like where what is our data
telling us?
And a lot of times we need helpwith that right.
So we need to rely on peoplethat are kind of experts in the
data field, like SLPs or schoolpsychologists, things like that,
to kind of really streamlinethat data collection process,
(36:06):
and so that has been anotherpiece that has been that I would
kind of recommend to otherschool educators.
The other thing I would say islike put forth action on it,
right?
So a lot of times we talk aboutearly intervention and how
important it is, but we reallyneed to look at what the
(36:28):
research is telling us and thengo with it, do it, you know, put
it into action.
There's a lot of times wherestudents will make okay progress
in intervention, but maybe it'sbecause we're not really
focused on exactly what theyneed or best practices, and so
if we really focus on thosepieces, then we can make a ton
of movement with kids, can makea ton of movement with kids.
(36:55):
So kind of putting thatresearch, best practices into
action is another thing that hasbeen really really important
that I would say focus on.
Melissa (37:00):
Linsey, I want to talk a little more about that
collaboration that you mentioned, especially because you know
Lori and I are going to we'regoing to be speech language
pathologists soon.
Of course, no, but seriously Ithink, oftentimes I feel like
you know, the speech languagepathologist is doing their thing
in the school and our teachersare doing their thing and
they're, and you know we end upin these silos of just doing our
(37:21):
things.
So I'm wondering, like if youhad any advice for teachers who
might be thinking like how can I, you know, how can I work with
my speech language pathologistmore effectively or a speech
language pathologist who mighthave that same interest you did
of?
Like you know, I'm interestedin early reading.
How can they make that, thatcollaboration happen?
What advice would you givethere?
Linsey Jones (37:43):
So that's an interesting one, right, because
everyone's pulled in so manydifferent directions that
sometimes you don't know whatquestions to ask or what this
person could help you with orwhat you can learn from.
You know another individual.
So I think really getting tounderstand, like different
people's roles in the schools isreally important and what they
(38:04):
can bring to the table.
So yeah, I mean speechpathologists.
Like we can provide a wholeclassroom lessons on what sounds
, what like are the features ofthis sound?
Or maybe kids are strugglingand we see this a lot in the
fall the concept of first andlast what's the first sound,
(38:24):
what's the last sound?
And with the last sound theyalways give you the first sound,
right, and so that's a languageconcept.
That is something that speechpathologists teach day in, day
out are those prepositions andspatial terms and all of that
kind of stuff.
So we can really help with that.
Where you think maybe they justaren't putting all of the pieces
together, but really, when itboils down to what they're not
(38:47):
understanding, it really couldjust be how would what?
How would the speechpathologist kind of teach this
Um and whole group is great, um,they can even, you know, do
some quick little lessons, um,with small group too.
So, yeah, I I lovecollaboration with our teachers
and and I think the more you doit, the more you learn from it.
(39:07):
And I learned from ourclassroom teachers all the time
on just good general instructionand I think the more you do it,
the better you get at it andthe more you can kind of like
pull those people in when youneed them at that particular
time.
Melissa (39:23):
I'll say every time we talk to someone that has this
collaboration between theirspeech, language pathologist and
especially the kindergartenteachers, we see that their data
is just like.
The kids are where they need tobe.
Lori (39:34):
It's through the roof is how I would describe it.
It's like a hundred percent,you know.
I mean that's the average ofthis collaboration.
So if you're a primary teacherout there, go grab your speech
language pathologist and getchatting.
You know, make a plan now,cause we've got tons of time
before the school year startsnext year.
Then you're you gave so manypractical ideas and how.
(39:57):
You know really what youfocused on and I feel like none
of it's really like shocking forkindergarten teachers.
You know it's just maybegetting at something faster or
incorporating multiplemodalities or really effective
15 minute boom intervention andmultiple, just structure right,
some specific structures.
So, oh my gosh, there's so muchto think about after this.
Linsey Jones (40:18):
Yeah, but it really has like broad impacts
across the school.
So, um, when you think aboutthose MTSS meetings that you
have, or child study teammeetings, whatever your district
calls them, right, we can makesuch better informed decisions
based on the information that wehave.
And to say that they've been inyou know tier two services for
this amount of time and this istheir progress, and and really
(40:39):
look at like, where did theystart and where are they now?
And is that expected progress?
Like do we?
Are they closing the gap?
And that's another thing thatwe have found with this program
is you always talk about thelearning gap, the learning gap,
but with this early intervention, we are not only closing the
learning gap, but we'reeliminating it, like it's gone,
right.
And so the kids who really needto be discussed at those MTSS
(41:04):
meetings are there.
It's very clear, right, it'svery clear.
You've got this huge group ofkids trending in this direction
and then we've got like one ortwo or very small group of kids
who are really not responding tothat.
Lori (41:17):
tier two intervention, which is the actual percentage
of what the data says should betrue, right.
Linsey Jones (41:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But the decision-making processthen becomes so clear.
You know, do we move to aspecial ed evaluation?
And it's just, it's not aboutsomeone's opinion or this or
that, it is just totallydata-driven and you feel better
about that decision because youcan rely on that data kind of
(41:43):
leading you to where you need togo with the particular child.
Melissa (41:48):
Yeah, and it reminds me of you know, this idea of you
know, not waiting until they getto third grade.
And then now, all of a sudden,you're like, oh my gosh, we have
so many students that need thisintervention.
What do we even do?
Because there's so many?
And you really, I want to say Iread a book called Upstream.
That was about this, like whereyou're catching them so early,
right that you're catching themright where they need it, before
(42:11):
it becomes a bigger problem,that you know, downstream down
the road, you're going to have amanageable amount of students
who really need thatintervention versus you know,
you let it go in kindergartenand just like they'll get it in
first grade, don't worry,they'll catch up.
And then, all of a sudden,you're like, oh my gosh, we have
so many students that needright second, third, fourth,
(42:33):
fifth grade, then isn't, ischaos.
I don't know how else todescribe it right Really give
them what they need, because youhave too many students that
need a lot.
Lori (42:42):
And too many years and too many skills to.
I mean not just years, but toomany years of quote falling
behind, too many skills to quotecatch up and fill in gaps.
I mean you're just spending allyour time backfilling but also
then you're not getting thecontent that they need for that
grade and it just continues togap you know, yep, and classroom
(43:03):
teachers have becomeoverwhelmed.
Linsey Jones (43:04):
And then intervention it's very
overwhelming, yeah, they're full, they can't take any more kids,
right.
And then your resource roomteachers they're full, their
classrooms are full, and it'slike, ah, what do we do with
this?
And I'm really hoping that wecan show that we can reduce
those numbers and then the kidswho you know are kind of left to
(43:28):
really to really require, um,that programming.
You have the capacity to reallyspend the time that you, that
you can or you need to with them.
Lori (43:38):
This is such a proactive versus a reactive approach and I
mean that's how MTSS was meantto be right.
Those tiers were meant to beproactive and you know,
unfortunately, I think currentlysometimes they're used in a
reactive.
But I'm so glad to lift thisstory up of you having this
proactive approach for not justyour school but several schools
(44:03):
right, and you're really able toget in there, see what's needed
based on the assessments, andthen lift up the students that
need that support with a lot offlexibility.
So I mean, you're doing amazingwork, Linsey, and we are so
grateful that you came on toshare.
Is there anything else you wantto share before we go?
Linsey Jones (44:22):
I will second that we yeah, we often operate under
that reactive approach right,and the more that we're doing
this and seeing that proactivekind of initiative and getting
these kids early, the more we'reseeing that, wow, they're
really responding to this andit's working.
It's really working.
So we're just really happy withall the results that we're
(44:43):
getting and we're excited tokeep going with it.
Melissa (44:46):
Well, thank you so much for sharing on our podcast
today with many people that willbe grateful to hear this from
you.
We really appreciate your timeand all that you're doing for
your students.
Linsey Jones (44:56):
Oh, thank you.
Thank you.
It's awesome to kind of sharethis with everybody.
So, yeah, you can do it, it'snot hard, I love it.
Melissa (45:07):
To stay connected with us, sign up for our email list
at literacypodcastcom, join ourFacebook group and follow us on
Instagram and Twitter.
Lori (45:17):
If this episode resonated with you, take a moment to share
with a teacher friend or leaveus a five-star rating and review
on Apple Podcasts.
Melissa (45:27):
Just a quick reminder that the views and opinions
expressed by the hosts andguests of the Melissa and Lori
Love Literacy podcast are notnecessarily the opinions of
Great Minds PBC or its employees.
Lori (45:39):
We appreciate you so much and we're so glad you're here to
learn with us.
Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.