July 18, 2025 • 46 mins
Episode 231
Working with students who struggle to make sense of complex texts? You’re not alone! Christina Cover, a high school special educator, interventionist, English teacher, and literacy coordinator, is here to help!
In this episode, Christina shares real-world, research-based strategies she uses to help her students break down and make sense of challenging texts. From her go-to routine Getting the Gist to building vocabulary and using morphology instruction in context, Christina walks us through what works in her classroom.
You’ll hear:
- How to support students in summarizing and understanding complex texts
- Why vocabulary and morphology matter so much for comprehension
- Ways to make test prep meaningful without sacrificing deeper reading
- How writing can be a powerful tool for reading comprehension
If you teach in grades 3 and up, this episode is full of tools and inspiration you can take straight back to your classroom.
Resources:
- Getting the G.I.S.T.
- Word Matrices
- Frayer Models
- Collaborative Strategic Reading (CSR)
- The Writing Revolution
- QFT: Question Formulation Technique
- Project for Adolescent Literacy:
- email: pal@seekcommonground.org
We answer your questions about teaching reading in The Literacy 50-A Q&A Handbook for Teachers: Real-World Answers to Questions About Reading That Keep You Up at Night.
Grab free resources and episode alerts! Sign up for our email list at literacypodcast.com.
Join our community on Facebook, and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, & Twitter.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Melissa (00:01):
Every teacher has faced the challenge of supporting
students who need more help toread grade-level texts.
If you are looking for ways tohelp your students become
stronger, more confident readerswhile tackling complex material
, this episode is for you.
Lori (00:16):
Teacher Christina Kover joins us to share practical
strategies you can use rightaway, like summarizing, building
vocabulary, metacognitive toolsand integrating writing.
You'll leave with simple,effective tools to make complex
texts more accessible for alllearners.
Hi teacher friends.
(00:37):
I'm Lori and I'm Melissa.
We are two educators who wantthe best for all kids and we
know you do too.
Melissa (00:45):
We worked together in Baltimore when the district
adopted a new literacycurriculum.
Lori (00:50):
We realized there was so much more to learn about how to
teach reading and writing.
Melissa (00:56):
Lori, and I can't wait to keep learning with you today.
Lori (01:01):
Hi, christina, welcome to the podcast.
We're so glad you're here.
Christina Cover (01:04):
Hi Christina, Welcome to the podcast.
We're so glad you're here.
Hi, Melissa and Lori, so so, soglad to be here.
Thank you so much for theopportunity.
Melissa (01:15):
Well, I am personally so very excited to talk to you
today, Christina, because youare a teacher in a high school
and, dear to my heart, that'swhere Lori and I actually both
start.
We both started teaching in highschool, believe it or not.
We made our way down to youngergrades eventually, but we both
started teaching in high schooland we know that one of the
biggest challenges teachingespecially ELA or English in the
(01:36):
older grades and really thismiddle school, this even upper
elementary school, all of thosegrades students end up reading
texts that can be reallychallenging for them, and they
need support as a reader,because we know that all of
those students have differentreasons for why those texts are
challenging to them.
So you're going to talk to usabout some really great
(01:58):
strategies that you use withyour students, but before we get
there, I wanted you to set thestage a little bit, because a
lot of our listeners areelementary teachers.
So we want to hear from yourexperience as a high school
teacher.
Just what kinds of texts areyour students reading and how do
they, you know if it's achallenging text.
How do they respond to that?
Christina Cover (02:20):
Absolutely Well .
I want to say hello to all theelementary teachers listening
and thank you for your work as asecondary teacher.
There's so much that I've beenreflecting on during the year
and you know I'll start bysaying at my school.
I'm at a high school in NewYork, a high school in the Bronx
public high school, and I quitelike the curriculum.
(02:41):
You know I'm more of animpressionable younger teacher,
I suppose, but I really like thecurriculum.
I think it has a wide range oftexts for students to really
understand and dive into, and sosome of the texts that we read
together this year include the57 bus, which is more like a
literary nonfiction text on thestory of two teenagers and how
(03:05):
their lives crossed and theirpaths crossed forever in Oakland
, california.
Really great book.
We also just wrapped up readingRomeo and Juliet.
Melissa (03:15):
There's a tough one.
Christina Cover (03:17):
That's a tough one.
Any Shakespeare is always atough one.
Any Shakespeare is a tough oneStill, as an adult, I feel like
it's tough still.
Yeah, it's challenging foranyone, and so it was
interesting to see that playfrom Shakespeare is included in
the curriculum in the workbooks,and so students are asked to
(03:39):
read that and then also writewhich I know we'll get to later,
but they have to write abouthow themes and ideas from Romeo
and Juliet are still relevanttoday, and so that was a huge,
huge lift.
We read Night by Elie Wiesel, weread a lot of fiction and
nonfiction texts that wereshorter, some informational
texts.
(03:59):
We also read some poetry and wealso read literary analysis
pieces, like examples ofliterary analysis essays on
Romeo and Juliet, and alsolistened to and read a
transcript of a podcast, and sothere was a wide range and I
think that my students reallyenjoyed some of the texts that
(04:20):
were more relevant to theircurrent day.
You know things going on today,but I would say, when it comes
to the texts that are morechallenging, we definitely get a
range of reactions.
Some students will try to findways to power through, but other
students will feel reallydiscouraged and have a difficult
time understanding the text andthen the corresponding
(04:42):
activities.
So it really is a wide range,and I'm teaching like I've
mentioned to you, melissa andLori, I teach small groups and I
also am the ELA teacher rightnow and I have been since around
January, so I co-taught and nowI'm taking that lead content
role and so I've been seeing alot and trying my best to work
with the students and help themthroughout the year with the
(05:04):
curriculum.
Lori (05:06):
Oh my gosh, this is.
I mean, the texts that youmentioned alone are really
complex, like just I mean, youknow, we already talked about
the Shakespeare one, but thereare so many other texts that you
called out that are complex forso many different reasons, and
that's not even taking thereader into consideration, right
, just the text alone, and thenwhen you add the reader in,
(05:29):
there's so many challenges.
Melissa (05:30):
So can Lori can I jump in real quick?
Sorry, I just wanted to add so,like night, I feel like, is one
of those ones where, like it'stricky, cause I think, if you
look at the Lexile level, isn'tit like a pretty low Lexile
level?
You know, so I think peopleassume, oh, that's an easy book
to read.
But even just thinking aboutthe topic of it, right, and the
heaviness of the Holocaust andeverything that understanding
(05:53):
you know what he went throughand what his family went through
.
I mean, that is so complex.
You know the Lexia leveldoesn't cover the complexity of
that text.
Lori (06:03):
Absolutely 100.
Okay, so that's a good point.
I'm glad you called that out,melissa.
So, christina, I know that youhave strategies to share to help
your students get through thesecomplex texts right, and I'd
love to cue you up for one thatyou told us about in our
pre-call, called Getting theGist, and this is really all
(06:24):
about summarizing, right.
I'd love to hear how you teachyour students to get the gist
right and also how it helps them, how you see it in action,
helping them as they're readingthese really difficult texts.
Christina Cover (06:38):
Totally, totally.
Yes, I think you know Get theGist is a strategy that I'm
excited to talk about todaybecause it seems like it's
something that is really takinghold, at least in New York,
among the New York City publicschools.
And, after doing some research,I think it's a John Cunningham
who is one of the leaddevelopers of the strategy, and
(06:58):
it stands for generatinginteractions between schemata
and techs, and so I firstlearned of it because I'm hired
as a centrally funded specialeducation intervention teacher
at my school and so we get to goto these great monthly
trainings.
There's a wonderful leader,rebecca Vitale-Dicola.
I have to shout her out.
(07:19):
She's an amazing leader whodoes a lot of work with all the
centrally fundedinterventionists throughout New
York City public schools, andshe introduced it to us because,
you know, a lot of us willcolloquially say gist, like oh,
what's the gist?
But this is a really neatstrategy that asks the students
to read a specific passage fromthe text, and it can be an
(07:43):
informational text, fiction,nonfiction, but we're really
looking for a dense text thatstudents need to unpack and then
you can scan it for textfeatures and model how to do
that with the students, and thenthe key is asking the students
to identify the who or what andthe most important information
(08:05):
from the text.
And so you can do this at leasthow I've been doing it.
I can ask the students to focuson the sentence level, or ask
them to focus on the paragraphlevel, and then they'll read it.
I'll ask them to create a chartor there's a worksheet that you
can provide and they'll writedown that who or what and that
most important information.
And so, after they do that fora while, they'll be asked to
(08:29):
make a gist statement.
And this is the fun part thatgist statement can be no longer
than you can set it 15 or 20words, or no longer than 8 and
13 words.
You know whatever you want it tobe and you can use those
parameters to really help thestudents to narrow down.
And you know, whatever you wantit to be, and you can use those
parameters to really help thestudents to narrow down.
And you know, get that highlevel summary from what they've
(08:50):
just read.
And so I really appreciate theversatility of the strategy.
I think it's very versatile.
It's great to model on theboard, it's great for
independent work, it's great ina notebook.
Anyone can create that chartand I really like the strategy
too because I think it can beembedded into curriculum very
(09:11):
easily.
So pre-standing you knowcurriculum and, for example,
we've seen how it can be addedto new visions curriculum.
There's a lot of new visionscience curriculum that's coming
down.
We're seeing a lot of thatreally dense syntactically all
of that material, and so you canembed those gist boxes
(09:31):
throughout and it can reallyhelp the students with keeping
up with what they're reading.
And I think it's powerfulbecause it helps students with
that syntax.
Particularly if there's apronoun in a sentence he to the
store, he went to school.
Who is the he referring to thatsame character from the
previous sentence, we'd besurprised.
(09:52):
But if students are havingdifficulties with syntactic
complexity, they might get lostwith all those references with
pronouns back to earlier in thereading, and so I try to assign
sentence level just to somestudents, paragraph level just
to other students.
It depends on how pressed fortime we are and I see some
(10:13):
impact and I really do thinkthat it helps students
understand what they're readinga bit better.
Lori (10:19):
Yeah, oh my gosh, the pronoun thing is a real thing.
That is so confusing forstudents, right, and especially
when there's lots of commas orclauses very confusing or you
have to refer back to them inthe sentence prior.
Christina Cover (10:35):
Totally, totally, and we've seen some
impact, I think, with that andI've been able to go into
different spaces as a co-teacherand recommend that as a go-to
strategy as teachers are tryingto find ways to help students
with their comprehension skills.
So I think it's been reallyhelpful and it's reminiscent in
(10:55):
some ways to me reminiscent ofthe writing revolution, which I
know we'll talk about later,which I know we'll talk about
later, but this process ofrevising and making a strong
gist statement, counting howmany words that you used, that
revision process, I think that'salso powerful for students as
they break it down.
See, oh, this paragraph iscoming back to that same person
again and again and I think thatthey find that interesting.
(11:18):
It might feel redundant attimes, but they really
understand the passage whenthey're done.
Melissa (11:28):
That's what I was going to say.
It's really helpful that you'regiving them actual steps to use
to get to that just statement,because I think you know
sometimes you see and you knowno offense to anyone out there
but sometimes you do see whereit's just like okay and now
write a summary or write a juststatement.
But this is the important partis teaching giving them those
like okay, well, what are youlooking for to put in that
statement?
Like, how do you know it's themost important information to
(11:51):
put in that.
So that's really helpful.
The way you broke that down orI guess John Cunningham broke it
down I didn't even know it wasbased on research.
So, thank you, yes, you taughtme something today.
Lori (12:03):
Yeah, I also really like, christina, that focusing on the
sentence level or the paragraphlevel.
I bet that that's a greatscaffold for students right, who
might need it, and not thatyou're going to go sentence by
sentence every single.
That'd be tedious, but you asthe teacher then can pull and
correct me if I'm wrong, if thisis like maybe not the way to
(12:24):
use it, but I'm just throwingout one way that I would use it
right.
I'd pull out a really importantsentence or a couple of them
and use the gist there, likehave the student kind of zoom in
on those sentences rather thanmaybe have them feel overwhelmed
by a whole paragraph.
Do you want to add a bit to?
Christina Cover (12:43):
that Certainly you know, and please you know my
apologies to Cunningham If I'mnot myself.
I still have so much to learn,but I think.
So.
I think, just like you said,lori, that sentence level or
paragraph level option can bereally powerful and there might
be something that you wantstudents to zoom in on a little
(13:05):
bit more.
That can be a great opportunityfor sentence level, paragraph
level, if students feelconfident or if we don't have as
much time in the day, in theclass day.
So I think it can be prettyflexible and I've been seeing
some success.
Melissa (13:22):
So that's how I've been putting it into practice in my
classroom and is this somethingthat you're doing?
It sounded like you said it wastaking hold in New York, so I'm
imagining this is something youare doing across your school,
which would be really valuable,and I'm wondering about other
content you are doing acrossyour school, which would be
really valuable, and I'mwondering about other content
area teachers Are they using itin content areas outside of
English.
Christina Cover (13:40):
I will say because in addition to being the
central you know teacherswearing so many hats in addition
to being the centrally fundedinterventionist, I also am
taking the role of like literacycoordinator at my school.
So that's just been an excusefor me to chat it up with
colleagues about literacy andwhat they're seeing in their
classroom.
So I think that in science, insocial studies, particularly in
(14:02):
science, we've had someconversations and again some of
this new curriculum can feel sodense, so many texts, students
might feel lost, struggling withwhat to do and how to break it
down.
So I do see that this is aneasily implementable step that
can literally those boxes can beadded into the passages from
(14:22):
like a PDF.
You can go in, make thosechanges and students seem to be
responding to it well.
And I'm hoping that moreschools can implement strategies
like these across multiplecontent areas because the
consistency can kind of relievethat cognitive load for the
students so that they seeconsistency in how they can
(14:43):
address any issues and anydifficulties they have when they
read.
So I think that consistency canbe really powerful.
Melissa (14:51):
All right, let's move on to another one of your
strategies, because I know youhave many to share, but you
talked about the importance ofvocabulary, and we know
vocabulary is really importantto comprehending any text,
especially more complex textsand morphology, so I can't wait
to hear your thoughts about that.
So what do you do with yourstudents to help with it, with
(15:13):
vocabulary and morphology?
And I'm really curious if youhave any examples from those
texts that you mentioned, or anyexamples that you have.
Christina Cover (15:23):
Yes, absolutely Well.
Like I mentioned, in additionto the full class ELA tier one
work that I'm doing right now, Ialso am a teacher who does
small groups, and so some of theprograms that I'm sure any
listener many of the listenerslistening right now might be
familiar with include Rewards byDr Anita Archer, and Phonics
(15:46):
for Reading is another popularone that we're seeing right now
in New York in the city, and sowith Rewards, that's a great
program for small groups andthere is a focus on affixes,
prefixes, suffixes and thatmorphology work, and I think
that Rewards also has a strongvocabulary protocol that I've
(16:07):
been trying to implement acrossTier 1-2.
And so some of the things thatI've been trying to do is take
some of those tenets of explicitinstruction from rewards and
try to implement them at thetier one level during vocabulary
instruction for everybody.
And so I know Dr Archer saysthat learning is nota spectator
(16:28):
sport, and so I try my best toelicit frequent responses when
students are learning thevocabulary words.
I ask the students to use theword in a sentence and I try to
move at a brisk pace and Iprovide immediate feedback to
sound something like this nextword is the word.
They'll repeat the word.
(16:56):
You ask them to repeat it.
You'll ask them for the part ofspeech and then you'll give
them a couple of examples andask for a choral read where
everybody reads those examplestogether of the words in a
sentence, and then you mightalso provide them with a word
family.
So forgive, forgiveness, youknow, adverb adjective, you know
(17:16):
whatever it is, that part ofspeech.
You'll go over that with thestudents and then ask them to
turn and talk and use the wordin a sentence.
And I really think that insteadof a vocabulary list, that kind
of lives in a notebook only wereally are trying to encourage
the student to have manyinstances with the word so that
they're more likely to rememberit and practice it day to day.
(17:39):
And so I'm trying to promotethese practices as a literacy
coordinator in professionaldevelopment sessions and while
co-teaching with colleagues atmy school.
And we've also seen somesuccess with word matrices, like
word matrix activities and, ofcourse, frayer models are a
classic, another classic way tohelp students to break down
(18:01):
vocab words and remember them.
And so these are some of thethings we're doing, but I still
have so much to learn aroundvocabulary.
But we've been seeing somesuccess with those strategies.
Melissa (18:11):
So thank you for sharing all that you do with
vocabulary.
That's a lot.
I love that you're just havingstudents pronounce the word.
I mean it sounds so simple, butwe had a researcher on who
talked about how important it isto just have kids say the words
over and over and you made methink of.
Lynn Stone was one of ourguests and she said the best
(18:32):
word list is a book and I lovethat you're making that a
reality in your school, in yourclassrooms, that you know, not
just giving those random wordlists but the words they're
actually seeing and and it helpsthem understand what they're
reading.
Love that quote.
Christina Cover (18:48):
I might have to take that one and keep it in my
back pocket.
The best word list is a book,so true.
Lori (18:54):
Yeah, that was really powerful.
When she said that, I was like,oh, such a good point.
Yes, lists can be helpful toolsas teachers, but truly the best
word list is a book and thatembedded instruction.
So so cool.
Christina, I'm thinking aboutwhen students have these
strategies.
Students are they have you knowthese strategies?
(19:15):
Right, they have the gettingthe gist.
You're using different wordlearning strategies.
But what about when studentsdon't comprehend what they're
reading?
Right?
What if they're using thesestrategies and they're not
understanding?
First of all, like, do theyknow they're not understanding
or do they kind of keep railingthrough, which is something I'm
(19:36):
always like oh, stop, stop.
So like, what metacognitivestrategies do you teach and how
do you help students who arestruggling in that way?
Christina Cover (19:45):
I appreciate that and I think, especially
again at the secondary level, atthe middle and high school
level, it's so difficult foreducators to, with so many
competing time demands andcompeting interests, what to do
and what we might be able to doto really stop and slow things
down or consider new strategiesto help students who might still
(20:07):
be struggling with theircomprehension.
And so you know themetacognition work.
I feel I have so much still tolearn, but I find that the GIST
strategy lends itself tometacognition in some ways, as
students realize.
Oh wow, like you know, I reallydo need to stop and I need to
go in write things down almosttheir executive functioning.
(20:29):
I think it also addresses, withthem pacing themselves.
But I will say, another strategythat has been coming up on the
tier two, tier three side is astrategy called collaborative
strategic reading or CSR, andthat's been another one that has
been very popular because myschool has been implementing
(20:52):
something called strategicreading periods and a lot of
schools in my district are doingthis because and any secondary
teacher listening to this youknow it's so difficult to find
this time during the school dayto focus on reading, to focus on
writing, and so we have acollaborative strategic reading
(21:12):
class that is an option forstrategic reading periods, and I
got to visit another highschool in the Bronx that's doing
awesome work, and they offerCSR collaborative strategic
reading as part of what theycall a reading comprehension
class, and so students getprogrammed into that class and I
think it's Dr Sharon Vaughn,who's one of the researchers and
(21:35):
leaders, who's brought thatforward.
Lori (21:37):
Confirmed, confirmed, I'm looking at it.
Christina Cover (21:39):
Yep, all righty Did my homework there.
That's right, dr Sharon Vaughn.
Collaborative strategic readingand this is a cool one, because
students get a reading and thenthey have to identify their
clunks, which are things thatthey're having a difficult time
understanding, and then theyhave to turn those clunks into
(21:59):
clicks using differentstrategies that are very
explicitly shared with thestudents.
And there are these clunk cardslike you can pass out.
It almost becomes this liketeam activity, where they get
the reading and they have tofind their clunks and find ways
to turn their clunks into clicksand then create those
statements and work together toaddress them.
(22:19):
So that's something we've beentrying to implement at our
school in the smaller groupsetting, and I think that that
also, in my opinion, lendsitself to metacognition, because
students are thinking okay, ifI'm having a hard time, what are
my strategies, what can I do?
Can I use my prefixes andsuffixes?
Can I read the sentence againand think about what comes
(22:42):
before or after?
It's really neat to see thedifferent strategies that are
explicitly taught throughcollaborative strategic reading.
Melissa (22:51):
Can I just say that I feel like the mindset around
that is really great, because Ithink oftentimes kids get these
tough texts right and it's likeI think they feel like they are
supposed to just get it rightand they probably then feel bad
if they don't.
And I love that.
That idea is like hey, we'reall going to have a place where
we're going to have some clunks,we all are going to have some
(23:11):
places where we need to read itagain or think about it in a
different way or use the giststatement idea to figure out
what's going on here.
And just that idea of likewe're all going to find our
places and all help each otherto figure them out, I think it's
just so helpful for just again,just the mindset of that's what
we're here for in school is tohelp you through these
(23:33):
challenging texts.
Christina Cover (23:34):
I completely agree and it's so neat to see
how the protocol asks studentsto activate their prior
knowledge, which is something Iknow we'll also talk about later
that importance of having priorknowledge that you're bringing
into the text and then goingfrom there and I think there's
also a possibility for roles,like there can be a scribe and
there can be.
So it really takes everythingfrom like oh I'm struggling by
(23:57):
myself, I don't know what to do.
It takes that anxiety away andgives students a chance to work
together as a team.
So that maturity level has tobe there Students who are
willing to work collaborativelyand be productive and be
productive.
But you know, when thatproductivity and the
instructions are clear.
It really is cool to seestudents work together and give
(24:19):
that strategy a try and, we hope, keep those strategies in mind
as they are facing a text ontheir own and applying that to
other situations in school.
Lori (24:27):
Yes, okay, so I also want to give credit to, uh, jeanette
Klingner.
Her name came up as well when Isearched for this Um but, thank
you, jeanette, to my middle name, you know, ladies of the
eighties, um, and I love theseroles.
I'm kind of looking at themright now.
Uh, christina, there's a leader, there's a clunk expert and
(24:50):
announcer and encourager, areporter, a timekeeper.
Now, I could kind of see olderstudents being a little eye
rolly about some of these, butat the same time I think what
they eye roll about like theyactually will still do if you
can sell it to them in the rightway.
Right, like I mean anencourager, I could be like you
know, here's a pom pom and gofor it, you know.
Or I just, you know clunkexpert, I'm going to give them
(25:12):
like a fake little brick orsomething.
Just make it fun.
I just feel like this is such acool strategy, like I want to
make sure we plug it.
What do you think, christina?
Are my ideas totally outrageous?
Christina Cover (25:24):
Not at all.
It really is a cool strategyand I completely agree, you know
, and it's attention.
It is attention in thesecondary intervention space so
many offerings out there rightnow but we want to find that you
know spot where it doesn't feelbabyish to the students.
But it's also something that isaddressing the skills they need
(25:45):
.
And I agree, Lori, when yousell it and when you're excited,
the students are excited too.
They might not say it at first,but they are looking for
answers, they're looking forstrategies, they're looking for
things that can help them whenthey feel like struggles day to
day.
They're looking for help, andso this is something that can be
fun and that collaborativeenvironment is really neat to
(26:07):
see in the tier two, tier threesettings.
Melissa (26:10):
And you also mentioned writing already, and the writing
revolution specifically, butwriting can sometimes be a
challenge for our students too.
But I'm wondering how you kindof use writing to help your
students actually comprehendthese tough texts, instead of it
feeling like now we just havetwo challenges a tough text and
you have to write about it.
Christina Cover (26:30):
Yes, I joke all the time with the writing
revolution and the Hockmanmethod.
I'm the most enthusiasticunpaid member of the writing
revolution fan club Like I haveno, but I just love talking
about it because I really thinkthat the writing revolution has
served as a phenomenal check forcomprehension for my students.
(26:51):
And I think you know, sincetaking on this kind of lead ELA
teacher role this past yeartowards the end of the year,
I've really been all in on thewriting revolution because I
think that it is a bit of acheckpoint.
You know, do not go forward.
Do you really understand whatwe read in class?
(27:13):
What's so cool about writingactivities, sentence level
activities following the Hockmanmethod?
In my opinion, you can'tcomplete these activities unless
you've read the text.
You just can't.
You know the because, but so'sthe subordinating conjunctions.
I know my students are so tiredof hearing the word a positive.
The amount of times I've triedto bring that one forward, but I
(27:38):
think some of them are reallygetting it.
But I think it's a phenomenalcheck for comprehension because
you're able to use whether it'sthe 57 bus or Romeo and Juliet
or night you can use those texts, create these custom activities
and students will have to haveread the text in order to
complete the activity.
And if they haven't, it's beenso cool this year to see
(28:00):
students going back into theirworkbooks, back into their books
, searching, asking questions ohwhere was this again, what page
was this on?
And I think that theircomprehension of the text has
really increased because theyhad to use the writing
revolution activity knowledge.
They've had to use theirknowledge in order to complete
those writing revolutionactivities and I think that it's
(28:22):
translated to more engagedconversations about the text and
more engagement around thereadings.
You know.
So I've been all in and I thinkthat I've seen increased
comprehension using the WritingRevolution this year.
Do you use it?
Lori (28:37):
across contents.
Christina Cover (28:39):
Oh, that's the question, lori, that's what you
know.
We're really hoping to continueto push for and we're seeing
that again.
You know, thinking of otherschools in the district, other
schools across the country, fromwhat I'm seeing in my district
in the city, we're seeing thatwhen teachers are across the
board, going all in, usingstrategies in a consistent way,
(29:02):
we're seeing increased successfor the students.
And so I've had the opportunityto partner with the Writing
Revolution and bring a PD to myschool, where teachers got
involved, they got to learn moreabout TWR and so there is some
interest in ongoing training inthe summer going into next year
for my school, which is exciting.
(29:23):
It feels like we're making somesteps there and even until then
I've been able to talk withcolleagues and they've told me
in the hallway hey, you know, msCover, I use this strategy from
TWR and I gave it a try, so Ican't say that we're at all
content level like every contentbefore.
Is that consistency whichrelieves that cognitive load and
(29:44):
ensures that students don'tfeel stressed as much, going
from this strategy to thisstrategy, they see some
consistency and that can helpwith their academic success.
So it's certainly no lighteffort.
(30:07):
It's certainly an undertakingat the school-wide level.
But having allies in the workis so important and I think that
we're seeing some progress andit's exciting to see all the
strategies that colleagues areputting forth.
We're also leaning into QFT,the question formulation
technique at my school right now, which is, I think, something
(30:30):
coming out of Harvard Universityand the Right Question
Institute.
We've seen some really greatstudent experiences around QFT
as well.
So you know, I think everyteacher comes in with like this
is my thing.
I want everyone to try to usethis thing.
So I think it takes a balanceof implementation and then also
some grace, as that work takestime.
(30:52):
But we've been making some goodprogress and even at this class
level a lot of positiveprogress can be made if you're
all in on an evidence-basedtechnique.
Lori (31:02):
Oh my gosh, so important, yes, and you took the words out
of my mouth that, like, progresstakes time and I love that
you're just at an entry point offiguring it out together and it
seems like you know, I love theidea of having some
professional learnings thissummer, seeing what sticks, what
you can get, you know, movingin the meantime while you wait
for school to start again.
(31:23):
So, christina, something I'mthinking a lot about as you're
speaking is these strategiesthat you're sharing, right this,
getting the gist, which isreally summarizing, building
vocabulary knowledge, usingthese metacognitive tools and
really integrating writing ineverything.
How do these strategies differthan, like, test prep strategies
(31:48):
or test taking strategies?
How are these different?
I'd love to hear from youbecause I feel like I have some
ideas in my head and I wouldactually encourage listeners
just to pause and think aboutthat too, because I know it can,
as we're all educators.
It's like this test taking timeof the year.
It's really stressful andthinking about test taking
strategies and test preparation,which I think has a space,
(32:12):
right, a time and a place, aswell as these strategies that
you're talking about too, likehow do they work together?
How are they different?
I'm sure that's very nuanced.
Christina Cover (32:23):
Certainly, certainly, and I have to give
another shout out Dr KatiePace-Miles and all of her
amazing work.
She's great.
And I just wrapped up myadvanced certificate in reading
science experience throughBrooklyn College and it was
awesome.
And for my review of researchtopic in the spring, I focused
(32:44):
on reading comprehension, whichI know I told you, melissa and
Lori, on the pre-call that I wasso excited to get to dive in
and then go to get to talk today.
And I agree, lori, it's reallyI've noticed even in my research
where I still have so much tolearn.
But there's such a tension, Ithink, particularly at the high
school level and at thesecondary level, when we think
(33:05):
about test prep strategies andtest taking strategies versus
comprehension strategies.
And from what I'm starting tokind of glean, you know, and
even in my couple of years, myshort experience comparatively
as a teacher, I think that Inoticed that when there's a
focus on comprehension and it'snot test taking, the gravity,
(33:30):
you know, the center, the coreof the focus in the classroom is
on the text instead of the test.
And I've had some really tensewell, not tense, but I think
everything's so tense but I'vehad some conversations with
colleagues and folks over theyears where teachers feel so
much pressure to teach to thetest and so it's like I'm sorry,
(33:52):
you know, ms Cover literacyinterventionist we don't have
time to focus on comprehensionand digging deep.
We've really got to get to thisregion, we've really got to get
to this end of year summativeassessment, and so it is such a
tension.
But I think that it's importantto focus on that center and you
(34:12):
know, I've been reading andlistening to a lot of Natalie
Wexler's amazing work andreading the knowledge gap and
having those conversations withcolleagues in evidence-based
comprehension activities, whilealso acknowledging the need to
have those opportunities fortest-taking strategy and
(34:37):
test-taking review and prep.
And you know, I think even inthe advanced certificate program
with Dr Katie Pace-Miles therewas a lecturer on who said even
Kaplan and some of these reallyrenowned test-taking companies
have strategies embedded thatderive from some of those
comprehension evidence-basedtechniques.
(34:59):
So I think that too often,because of the ways that high
school teachers are stretched sothin, they can feel in
competition.
They can feel in competitioncomprehension test prep.
They can feel incompetentioncomprehension test prep.
They can feel in conflict.
But I think there's a worldwhere we can work towards a
synthesis where strong, tier oneinstruction is happening all
(35:21):
year and we're using Get theGist, we're using CSR, we're
using TWR those real world testtaking strategies, especially
towards the end, to give ourstudents the best possible
chance at success in the testand in life beyond high school.
So it's something that I'mlearning a lot about and I think
(35:45):
that that concept of aknowledge gap is something also
that we need to be reckoningwith, because for so many
students, that knowledge thatthey didn't have access to
because of decoding or fluencystruggles over the years, we
can't expect our secondaryeducators to be able to address
all of that in the span of ayear, plus get them ready for
(36:05):
their regents or their stateexams.
So it's a true struggle, it's atension, but I think there's a
place for both in our secondaryschools.
Lori (36:15):
Yeah, and that's such a good point, christina, and you
know I wish that you were in myschool as, like you know, it's
not like one or the other.
Yeah, test taking strategiesare helpful to learn, but not in
(36:37):
absence of really good tier oneinstruction, which includes a
whole host of things that youmentioned.
So I appreciate that.
So we know that there's a placefor test taking strategies.
You just kind of shared thatand I was going to ask you about
it next.
But is there anything else youwant to say about that, like
what that could look likeeffectively?
Christina Cover (36:57):
For sure you know I again in that research
and you know my research paper.
It felt like a lot to me, but Iknow it's a minuscule amount of
all the research that's outthere on comprehension and
knowledge building.
I did a deep dive on the workof ED Hirsch and core knowledge,
which was a whole nother worldthat I wasn't familiar with.
(37:19):
I mean, we talk about, you know, the reading wars and the
science of reading, debates anddiscussions, but knowledge
building is something that I'dreally love to learn more about.
But we know that when we lookto the IES practice guides and
we look to best practices forolder striving readers, that a
majority of older students withcomprehension difficulties, like
(37:41):
I mentioned before, also havethose difficulties with word
level reading and fluency, andso you know we should never
minimize those skills when weconsider how to improve outcomes
.
And so I think that as wecontinue to do this work, we'll
want to keep on pushing for, asI mentioned, those strong,
evidence-based practices.
Give those students who needthat word level work
(38:03):
opportunities to be part ofprograms like Phonics for
Reading or Rewards in smallgroups and then also collaborate
on the tier one level so thatall teachers have access to
strategies that are in theirback pockets that can address
comprehension in alignment withthe evidence.
It's a measure of accountability, you know.
(38:30):
It's something that's a bitpolitical too in so many
respects, particularly insystemically under-resourced
communities like the Bronx andplaces where we want students
Black.
Trying to do finding thatbalance, consider these
comprehension strategiesembedded throughout the year and
(38:56):
then, of course, with a bigexam coming up, to try to embed
test taking but to try to keepthe center of gravity to the
text and not as much to the testwhenever possible.
And I think that focus on thetext will hopefully give
students strategies that theycan apply even after that test
is done.
(39:16):
But I know that it's easiersaid than done and it takes
system level conversations withadministrators, with colleagues,
and it takes a lot of trial anderror in the classroom with
students 100%.
Lori (39:29):
I want to just say to Christina, it makes a lot of
sense.
I love the idea of thinkingabout the center of gravity and
like kind of where it shouldfall a little bit more toward.
Maybe it's not centered, maybea little off center, or what's
in the center versus what's onthe outside.
But I love that and I think youknow it's one of those things
that Melissa and I talk aboutall the time on the podcast.
You have to practice thingsSometimes.
(39:51):
You just have to practice toget better sometimes, and to me
it's like you know, I wouldnever put a test in front of a
kid that I haven't done a littlepractice with.
At the same time, I'd want togive them lots more practice
with the bigger picture thingsthat matter, right Cause that's
like long, it's a long game.
The test is a short game.
The long game is, you know, yousee it pay off.
(40:13):
So I don't know, melissa, isthere anything you want to add
to that?
Well, I was going to say thosewill.
Melissa (40:18):
I mean, they will also help with the test.
You know you have to do allthose real things to help them
as readers, to help them besuccessful on the test.
But I also want to just get toone last thing with you,
christina, because I can't letyou leave without talking about
Project for Adolescent Literacy,because in all your free time
(40:40):
as a you know special educationteacher and a literacy
coordinator, you have taken onthis whole project with other
teachers, including Julie Brown,who's been on our podcast, who
is amazing, and you got you allare specifically doing just some
work and finding outinformation about adolescent
readers and many who may needsupport, even at the decoding
(41:01):
level right, the decoding at theword level.
So even you know more than whatwe've talked about on this
podcast today, but we don't havea ton of time, so can you just
give us a you know fewhighlights from what you've
learned from that project.
Christina Cover (41:15):
Absolutely, and thank you both so much again
for your support of teachers allover the country, all over the
world who listen in, and withthis project for adolescent
literacy we're also getting tohear from teachers across the
country, across the world, folkswho are really interested in
bringing the same energy andexcitement and focused attention
(41:38):
that is being given toelementary work and trying to
bring more science of reading,evidence-based instruction to
the elementary level.
We're also hoping to buildcapacity so there's momentum on
the secondary level too.
So it's been a really coolexperience.
We have our phase one projectreport out on the Seek Common
(42:01):
Ground website so that'savailable for everyone to check
out.
And you know we're trying ourbest to be very open source.
We say all the time that thematerials that we're gathering
and learning about do notnecessarily represent or are
endorsed by our PAL steeringcommittee, but we do have in the
appendix of the report some ofthe resources and approaches
that have been coming up themost among the folks who
(42:24):
responded to our survey workacross the country, and so
certainly Orton-Gillingham,wilson Rewards, lexia, power Up
Writing Revolution, which wetalked about today.
Take Aim at Vocabulary, rhymeMagic, winston Grammar these are
the ones that seem to rise tothe top among secondary
(42:45):
educators who say that they'reseeing positive action and
positive results in theirclassrooms action and positive
results in their classrooms.
So I think it's so cool to havean opportunity to talk directly
to teachers, see what they'reusing, because often the
policies are different thanwhat's actually happening in the
classrooms, and so we're tryingto create a space where
teachers can be really honestwith what's working for them,
(43:08):
what they're trying to create,what they're trying to build,
and we're trying to buildcapacity, and so we're excited
to see what other curriculumrises to the surface across the
country, and in the next coupleweeks we'll be embarking on
phase two and building thesecommunities of practice around
assessment, around instructionalmaterials.
Subscribe to our email list bysending us an email at pal at
(43:32):
seekcommongroundorg, and thenthey can get involved.
I check those emails myself andso you can reach out anytime,
and this is what I do outside ofschool.
I'm separate from school justto try to help build capacity in
this space, and we're lookingforward to what's coming up this
summer.
Melissa (43:49):
I really don't know how you have time to do all that
you do, but you are veryimpressive.
Lori (43:55):
I was going to say literally eat dinner.
How do you?
Christina Cover (43:57):
have time, you're the best you know eating
dinner, looking at the surveyresults and it just.
It makes it easy when it's whenit's a passion and when it's
it's so cool.
So it's been a dream side gigfor sure.
And hearing from other teachersfrom the Bronx to Colorado to
Wyoming, with similarexperiences, it's just been so
(44:18):
awesome and makes me feelencouraged and uplifted as we
try to keep this work going Well.
Lori (44:24):
We are linking all of this stuff in our show notes.
Christina, like Melissa and Ihave been crazy linking stuff
while you were been talkingtoday, but I want you to repeat
that email address one more timefor anyone listening.
Yes, that is pal.
Christina Cover (44:38):
P-A-L at ccommongroundorg and we get
those emails and we'll add youto the list.
Lori (44:46):
Great, Perfect.
Well, I'm going to sign upright after this episode, but
this is amazing.
Your energy is contagious andthank you for just reminding us
of the power of you know,positivity, curiosity and really
strategicness, Just so.
You're just so smart with howstrategic you are.
(45:06):
It makes it work smarter, notharder, and that's so necessary,
especially with our olderreaders, whether they're third
grade quote older and strugglingor sixth grade or 12th grade,
because we know that they haveless time in our school system
than all of the other ones.
So thank you for all that youdo.
Melissa (45:25):
Yeah, and thank you for sharing everything today.
It's been amazing.
Christina Cover (45:29):
Thank you so much for the opportunity.
Thank you both for yourleadership.
Thank you so much for theopportunity.
Melissa (45:35):
Thank you both for your leadership.
Thank you so much.
To stay connected with us, signup for our email list at
literacypodcastcom, join ourFacebook group and follow us on
Instagram and Twitter.
Lori (45:46):
If this episode resonated with you, take a moment to share
with a teacher friend or leaveus a five-star rating and review
on Apple Podcasts.
Melissa (45:56):
Just a quick reminder that the views and opinions
expressed by the hosts andguests of the Melissa and Lori
Love Literacy Podcast are notnecessarily the opinions of
Great Minds PBC or its employees.
Lori (46:08):
We appreciate you so much and we're so glad you're here to
learn with us.
Every teacher has faced the challenge of supporting
students who need more help toread grade-level texts.
If you are looking for ways tohelp your students become
stronger, more confident readerswhile tackling complex material
, this episode is for you.
Lori (00:16):
Teacher Christina Kover joins us to share practical
strategies you can use rightaway, like summarizing, building
vocabulary, metacognitive toolsand integrating writing.
You'll leave with simple,effective tools to make complex
texts more accessible for alllearners.
Hi teacher friends.
(00:37):
I'm Lori and I'm Melissa.
We are two educators who wantthe best for all kids and we
know you do too.
Melissa (00:45):
We worked together in Baltimore when the district
adopted a new literacycurriculum.
Lori (00:50):
We realized there was so much more to learn about how to
teach reading and writing.
Melissa (00:56):
Lori, and I can't wait to keep learning with you today.
Lori (01:01):
Hi, christina, welcome to the podcast.
We're so glad you're here.
Christina Cover (01:04):
Hi Christina, Welcome to the podcast.
We're so glad you're here.
Hi, Melissa and Lori, so so, soglad to be here.
Thank you so much for theopportunity.
Melissa (01:15):
Well, I am personally so very excited to talk to you
today, Christina, because youare a teacher in a high school
and, dear to my heart, that'swhere Lori and I actually both
start.
We both started teaching in highschool, believe it or not.
We made our way down to youngergrades eventually, but we both
started teaching in high schooland we know that one of the
biggest challenges teachingespecially ELA or English in the
(01:36):
older grades and really thismiddle school, this even upper
elementary school, all of thosegrades students end up reading
texts that can be reallychallenging for them, and they
need support as a reader,because we know that all of
those students have differentreasons for why those texts are
challenging to them.
So you're going to talk to usabout some really great
(01:58):
strategies that you use withyour students, but before we get
there, I wanted you to set thestage a little bit, because a
lot of our listeners areelementary teachers.
So we want to hear from yourexperience as a high school
teacher.
Just what kinds of texts areyour students reading and how do
they, you know if it's achallenging text.
How do they respond to that?
Christina Cover (02:20):
Absolutely Well .
I want to say hello to all theelementary teachers listening
and thank you for your work as asecondary teacher.
There's so much that I've beenreflecting on during the year
and you know I'll start bysaying at my school.
I'm at a high school in NewYork, a high school in the Bronx
public high school, and I quitelike the curriculum.
(02:41):
You know I'm more of animpressionable younger teacher,
I suppose, but I really like thecurriculum.
I think it has a wide range oftexts for students to really
understand and dive into, and sosome of the texts that we read
together this year include the57 bus, which is more like a
literary nonfiction text on thestory of two teenagers and how
(03:05):
their lives crossed and theirpaths crossed forever in Oakland
, california.
Really great book.
We also just wrapped up readingRomeo and Juliet.
Melissa (03:15):
There's a tough one.
Christina Cover (03:17):
That's a tough one.
Any Shakespeare is always atough one.
Any Shakespeare is a tough oneStill, as an adult, I feel like
it's tough still.
Yeah, it's challenging foranyone, and so it was
interesting to see that playfrom Shakespeare is included in
the curriculum in the workbooks,and so students are asked to
(03:39):
read that and then also writewhich I know we'll get to later,
but they have to write abouthow themes and ideas from Romeo
and Juliet are still relevanttoday, and so that was a huge,
huge lift.
We read Night by Elie Wiesel, weread a lot of fiction and
nonfiction texts that wereshorter, some informational
texts.
(03:59):
We also read some poetry and wealso read literary analysis
pieces, like examples ofliterary analysis essays on
Romeo and Juliet, and alsolistened to and read a
transcript of a podcast, and sothere was a wide range and I
think that my students reallyenjoyed some of the texts that
(04:20):
were more relevant to theircurrent day.
You know things going on today,but I would say, when it comes
to the texts that are morechallenging, we definitely get a
range of reactions.
Some students will try to findways to power through, but other
students will feel reallydiscouraged and have a difficult
time understanding the text andthen the corresponding
(04:42):
activities.
So it really is a wide range,and I'm teaching like I've
mentioned to you, melissa andLori, I teach small groups and I
also am the ELA teacher rightnow and I have been since around
January, so I co-taught and nowI'm taking that lead content
role and so I've been seeing alot and trying my best to work
with the students and help themthroughout the year with the
(05:04):
curriculum.
Lori (05:06):
Oh my gosh, this is.
I mean, the texts that youmentioned alone are really
complex, like just I mean, youknow, we already talked about
the Shakespeare one, but thereare so many other texts that you
called out that are complex forso many different reasons, and
that's not even taking thereader into consideration, right
, just the text alone, and thenwhen you add the reader in,
(05:29):
there's so many challenges.
Melissa (05:30):
So can Lori can I jump in real quick?
Sorry, I just wanted to add so,like night, I feel like, is one
of those ones where, like it'stricky, cause I think, if you
look at the Lexile level, isn'tit like a pretty low Lexile
level?
You know, so I think peopleassume, oh, that's an easy book
to read.
But even just thinking aboutthe topic of it, right, and the
heaviness of the Holocaust andeverything that understanding
(05:53):
you know what he went throughand what his family went through
.
I mean, that is so complex.
You know the Lexia leveldoesn't cover the complexity of
that text.
Lori (06:03):
Absolutely 100.
Okay, so that's a good point.
I'm glad you called that out,melissa.
So, christina, I know that youhave strategies to share to help
your students get through thesecomplex texts right, and I'd
love to cue you up for one thatyou told us about in our
pre-call, called Getting theGist, and this is really all
(06:24):
about summarizing, right.
I'd love to hear how you teachyour students to get the gist
right and also how it helps them, how you see it in action,
helping them as they're readingthese really difficult texts.
Christina Cover (06:38):
Totally, totally.
Yes, I think you know Get theGist is a strategy that I'm
excited to talk about todaybecause it seems like it's
something that is really takinghold, at least in New York,
among the New York City publicschools.
And, after doing some research,I think it's a John Cunningham
who is one of the leaddevelopers of the strategy, and
(06:58):
it stands for generatinginteractions between schemata
and techs, and so I firstlearned of it because I'm hired
as a centrally funded specialeducation intervention teacher
at my school and so we get to goto these great monthly
trainings.
There's a wonderful leader,rebecca Vitale-Dicola.
I have to shout her out.
(07:19):
She's an amazing leader whodoes a lot of work with all the
centrally fundedinterventionists throughout New
York City public schools, andshe introduced it to us because,
you know, a lot of us willcolloquially say gist, like oh,
what's the gist?
But this is a really neatstrategy that asks the students
to read a specific passage fromthe text, and it can be an
(07:43):
informational text, fiction,nonfiction, but we're really
looking for a dense text thatstudents need to unpack and then
you can scan it for textfeatures and model how to do
that with the students, and thenthe key is asking the students
to identify the who or what andthe most important information
(08:05):
from the text.
And so you can do this at leasthow I've been doing it.
I can ask the students to focuson the sentence level, or ask
them to focus on the paragraphlevel, and then they'll read it.
I'll ask them to create a chartor there's a worksheet that you
can provide and they'll writedown that who or what and that
most important information.
And so, after they do that fora while, they'll be asked to
(08:29):
make a gist statement.
And this is the fun part thatgist statement can be no longer
than you can set it 15 or 20words, or no longer than 8 and
13 words.
You know whatever you want it tobe and you can use those
parameters to really help thestudents to narrow down.
And you know, whatever you wantit to be, and you can use those
parameters to really help thestudents to narrow down.
And you know, get that highlevel summary from what they've
(08:50):
just read.
And so I really appreciate theversatility of the strategy.
I think it's very versatile.
It's great to model on theboard, it's great for
independent work, it's great ina notebook.
Anyone can create that chartand I really like the strategy
too because I think it can beembedded into curriculum very
(09:11):
easily.
So pre-standing you knowcurriculum and, for example,
we've seen how it can be addedto new visions curriculum.
There's a lot of new visionscience curriculum that's coming
down.
We're seeing a lot of thatreally dense syntactically all
of that material, and so you canembed those gist boxes
(09:31):
throughout and it can reallyhelp the students with keeping
up with what they're reading.
And I think it's powerfulbecause it helps students with
that syntax.
Particularly if there's apronoun in a sentence he to the
store, he went to school.
Who is the he referring to thatsame character from the
previous sentence, we'd besurprised.
(09:52):
But if students are havingdifficulties with syntactic
complexity, they might get lostwith all those references with
pronouns back to earlier in thereading, and so I try to assign
sentence level just to somestudents, paragraph level just
to other students.
It depends on how pressed fortime we are and I see some
(10:13):
impact and I really do thinkthat it helps students
understand what they're readinga bit better.
Lori (10:19):
Yeah, oh my gosh, the pronoun thing is a real thing.
That is so confusing forstudents, right, and especially
when there's lots of commas orclauses very confusing or you
have to refer back to them inthe sentence prior.
Christina Cover (10:35):
Totally, totally, and we've seen some
impact, I think, with that andI've been able to go into
different spaces as a co-teacherand recommend that as a go-to
strategy as teachers are tryingto find ways to help students
with their comprehension skills.
So I think it's been reallyhelpful and it's reminiscent in
(10:55):
some ways to me reminiscent ofthe writing revolution, which I
know we'll talk about later,which I know we'll talk about
later, but this process ofrevising and making a strong
gist statement, counting howmany words that you used, that
revision process, I think that'salso powerful for students as
they break it down.
See, oh, this paragraph iscoming back to that same person
again and again and I think thatthey find that interesting.
(11:18):
It might feel redundant attimes, but they really
understand the passage whenthey're done.
Melissa (11:28):
That's what I was going to say.
It's really helpful that you'regiving them actual steps to use
to get to that just statement,because I think you know
sometimes you see and you knowno offense to anyone out there
but sometimes you do see whereit's just like okay and now
write a summary or write a juststatement.
But this is the important partis teaching giving them those
like okay, well, what are youlooking for to put in that
statement?
Like, how do you know it's themost important information to
(11:51):
put in that.
So that's really helpful.
The way you broke that down orI guess John Cunningham broke it
down I didn't even know it wasbased on research.
So, thank you, yes, you taughtme something today.
Lori (12:03):
Yeah, I also really like, christina, that focusing on the
sentence level or the paragraphlevel.
I bet that that's a greatscaffold for students right, who
might need it, and not thatyou're going to go sentence by
sentence every single.
That'd be tedious, but you asthe teacher then can pull and
correct me if I'm wrong, if thisis like maybe not the way to
(12:24):
use it, but I'm just throwingout one way that I would use it
right.
I'd pull out a really importantsentence or a couple of them
and use the gist there, likehave the student kind of zoom in
on those sentences rather thanmaybe have them feel overwhelmed
by a whole paragraph.
Do you want to add a bit to?
Christina Cover (12:43):
that Certainly you know, and please you know my
apologies to Cunningham If I'mnot myself.
I still have so much to learn,but I think.
So.
I think, just like you said,lori, that sentence level or
paragraph level option can bereally powerful and there might
be something that you wantstudents to zoom in on a little
(13:05):
bit more.
That can be a great opportunityfor sentence level, paragraph
level, if students feelconfident or if we don't have as
much time in the day, in theclass day.
So I think it can be prettyflexible and I've been seeing
some success.
Melissa (13:22):
So that's how I've been putting it into practice in my
classroom and is this somethingthat you're doing?
It sounded like you said it wastaking hold in New York, so I'm
imagining this is something youare doing across your school,
which would be really valuable,and I'm wondering about other
content you are doing acrossyour school, which would be
really valuable, and I'mwondering about other content
area teachers Are they using itin content areas outside of
English.
Christina Cover (13:40):
I will say because in addition to being the
central you know teacherswearing so many hats in addition
to being the centrally fundedinterventionist, I also am
taking the role of like literacycoordinator at my school.
So that's just been an excusefor me to chat it up with
colleagues about literacy andwhat they're seeing in their
classroom.
So I think that in science, insocial studies, particularly in
(14:02):
science, we've had someconversations and again some of
this new curriculum can feel sodense, so many texts, students
might feel lost, struggling withwhat to do and how to break it
down.
So I do see that this is aneasily implementable step that
can literally those boxes can beadded into the passages from
(14:22):
like a PDF.
You can go in, make thosechanges and students seem to be
responding to it well.
And I'm hoping that moreschools can implement strategies
like these across multiplecontent areas because the
consistency can kind of relievethat cognitive load for the
students so that they seeconsistency in how they can
(14:43):
address any issues and anydifficulties they have when they
read.
So I think that consistency canbe really powerful.
Melissa (14:51):
All right, let's move on to another one of your
strategies, because I know youhave many to share, but you
talked about the importance ofvocabulary, and we know
vocabulary is really importantto comprehending any text,
especially more complex textsand morphology, so I can't wait
to hear your thoughts about that.
So what do you do with yourstudents to help with it, with
(15:13):
vocabulary and morphology?
And I'm really curious if youhave any examples from those
texts that you mentioned, or anyexamples that you have.
Christina Cover (15:23):
Yes, absolutely Well.
Like I mentioned, in additionto the full class ELA tier one
work that I'm doing right now, Ialso am a teacher who does
small groups, and so some of theprograms that I'm sure any
listener many of the listenerslistening right now might be
familiar with include Rewards byDr Anita Archer, and Phonics
(15:46):
for Reading is another popularone that we're seeing right now
in New York in the city, and sowith Rewards, that's a great
program for small groups andthere is a focus on affixes,
prefixes, suffixes and thatmorphology work, and I think
that Rewards also has a strongvocabulary protocol that I've
(16:07):
been trying to implement acrossTier 1-2.
And so some of the things thatI've been trying to do is take
some of those tenets of explicitinstruction from rewards and
try to implement them at thetier one level during vocabulary
instruction for everybody.
And so I know Dr Archer saysthat learning is nota spectator
(16:28):
sport, and so I try my best toelicit frequent responses when
students are learning thevocabulary words.
I ask the students to use theword in a sentence and I try to
move at a brisk pace and Iprovide immediate feedback to
sound something like this nextword is the word.
They'll repeat the word.
(16:56):
You ask them to repeat it.
You'll ask them for the part ofspeech and then you'll give
them a couple of examples andask for a choral read where
everybody reads those examplestogether of the words in a
sentence, and then you mightalso provide them with a word
family.
So forgive, forgiveness, youknow, adverb adjective, you know
(17:16):
whatever it is, that part ofspeech.
You'll go over that with thestudents and then ask them to
turn and talk and use the wordin a sentence.
And I really think that insteadof a vocabulary list, that kind
of lives in a notebook only wereally are trying to encourage
the student to have manyinstances with the word so that
they're more likely to rememberit and practice it day to day.
(17:39):
And so I'm trying to promotethese practices as a literacy
coordinator in professionaldevelopment sessions and while
co-teaching with colleagues atmy school.
And we've also seen somesuccess with word matrices, like
word matrix activities and, ofcourse, frayer models are a
classic, another classic way tohelp students to break down
(18:01):
vocab words and remember them.
And so these are some of thethings we're doing, but I still
have so much to learn aroundvocabulary.
But we've been seeing somesuccess with those strategies.
Melissa (18:11):
So thank you for sharing all that you do with
vocabulary.
That's a lot.
I love that you're just havingstudents pronounce the word.
I mean it sounds so simple, butwe had a researcher on who
talked about how important it isto just have kids say the words
over and over and you made methink of.
Lynn Stone was one of ourguests and she said the best
(18:32):
word list is a book and I lovethat you're making that a
reality in your school, in yourclassrooms, that you know, not
just giving those random wordlists but the words they're
actually seeing and and it helpsthem understand what they're
reading.
Love that quote.
Christina Cover (18:48):
I might have to take that one and keep it in my
back pocket.
The best word list is a book,so true.
Lori (18:54):
Yeah, that was really powerful.
When she said that, I was like,oh, such a good point.
Yes, lists can be helpful toolsas teachers, but truly the best
word list is a book and thatembedded instruction.
So so cool.
Christina, I'm thinking aboutwhen students have these
strategies.
Students are they have you knowthese strategies?
(19:15):
Right, they have the gettingthe gist.
You're using different wordlearning strategies.
But what about when studentsdon't comprehend what they're
reading?
Right?
What if they're using thesestrategies and they're not
understanding?
First of all, like, do theyknow they're not understanding
or do they kind of keep railingthrough, which is something I'm
(19:36):
always like oh, stop, stop.
So like, what metacognitivestrategies do you teach and how
do you help students who arestruggling in that way?
Christina Cover (19:45):
I appreciate that and I think, especially
again at the secondary level, atthe middle and high school
level, it's so difficult foreducators to, with so many
competing time demands andcompeting interests, what to do
and what we might be able to doto really stop and slow things
down or consider new strategiesto help students who might still
(20:07):
be struggling with theircomprehension.
And so you know themetacognition work.
I feel I have so much still tolearn, but I find that the GIST
strategy lends itself tometacognition in some ways, as
students realize.
Oh wow, like you know, I reallydo need to stop and I need to
go in write things down almosttheir executive functioning.
(20:29):
I think it also addresses, withthem pacing themselves.
But I will say, another strategythat has been coming up on the
tier two, tier three side is astrategy called collaborative
strategic reading or CSR, andthat's been another one that has
been very popular because myschool has been implementing
(20:52):
something called strategicreading periods and a lot of
schools in my district are doingthis because and any secondary
teacher listening to this youknow it's so difficult to find
this time during the school dayto focus on reading, to focus on
writing, and so we have acollaborative strategic reading
(21:12):
class that is an option forstrategic reading periods, and I
got to visit another highschool in the Bronx that's doing
awesome work, and they offerCSR collaborative strategic
reading as part of what theycall a reading comprehension
class, and so students getprogrammed into that class and I
think it's Dr Sharon Vaughn,who's one of the researchers and
(21:35):
leaders, who's brought thatforward.
Lori (21:37):
Confirmed, confirmed, I'm looking at it.
Christina Cover (21:39):
Yep, all righty Did my homework there.
That's right, dr Sharon Vaughn.
Collaborative strategic readingand this is a cool one, because
students get a reading and thenthey have to identify their
clunks, which are things thatthey're having a difficult time
understanding, and then theyhave to turn those clunks into
(21:59):
clicks using differentstrategies that are very
explicitly shared with thestudents.
And there are these clunk cardslike you can pass out.
It almost becomes this liketeam activity, where they get
the reading and they have tofind their clunks and find ways
to turn their clunks into clicksand then create those
statements and work together toaddress them.
(22:19):
So that's something we've beentrying to implement at our
school in the smaller groupsetting, and I think that that
also, in my opinion, lendsitself to metacognition, because
students are thinking okay, ifI'm having a hard time, what are
my strategies, what can I do?
Can I use my prefixes andsuffixes?
Can I read the sentence againand think about what comes
(22:42):
before or after?
It's really neat to see thedifferent strategies that are
explicitly taught throughcollaborative strategic reading.
Melissa (22:51):
Can I just say that I feel like the mindset around
that is really great, because Ithink oftentimes kids get these
tough texts right and it's likeI think they feel like they are
supposed to just get it rightand they probably then feel bad
if they don't.
And I love that.
That idea is like hey, we'reall going to have a place where
we're going to have some clunks,we all are going to have some
(23:11):
places where we need to read itagain or think about it in a
different way or use the giststatement idea to figure out
what's going on here.
And just that idea of likewe're all going to find our
places and all help each otherto figure them out, I think it's
just so helpful for just again,just the mindset of that's what
we're here for in school is tohelp you through these
(23:33):
challenging texts.
Christina Cover (23:34):
I completely agree and it's so neat to see
how the protocol asks studentsto activate their prior
knowledge, which is something Iknow we'll also talk about later
that importance of having priorknowledge that you're bringing
into the text and then goingfrom there and I think there's
also a possibility for roles,like there can be a scribe and
there can be.
So it really takes everythingfrom like oh I'm struggling by
(23:57):
myself, I don't know what to do.
It takes that anxiety away andgives students a chance to work
together as a team.
So that maturity level has tobe there Students who are
willing to work collaborativelyand be productive and be
productive.
But you know, when thatproductivity and the
instructions are clear.
It really is cool to seestudents work together and give
(24:19):
that strategy a try and, we hope, keep those strategies in mind
as they are facing a text ontheir own and applying that to
other situations in school.
Lori (24:27):
Yes, okay, so I also want to give credit to, uh, jeanette
Klingner.
Her name came up as well when Isearched for this Um but, thank
you, jeanette, to my middle name, you know, ladies of the
eighties, um, and I love theseroles.
I'm kind of looking at themright now.
Uh, christina, there's a leader, there's a clunk expert and
(24:50):
announcer and encourager, areporter, a timekeeper.
Now, I could kind of see olderstudents being a little eye
rolly about some of these, butat the same time I think what
they eye roll about like theyactually will still do if you
can sell it to them in the rightway.
Right, like I mean anencourager, I could be like you
know, here's a pom pom and gofor it, you know.
Or I just, you know clunkexpert, I'm going to give them
(25:12):
like a fake little brick orsomething.
Just make it fun.
I just feel like this is such acool strategy, like I want to
make sure we plug it.
What do you think, christina?
Are my ideas totally outrageous?
Christina Cover (25:24):
Not at all.
It really is a cool strategyand I completely agree, you know
, and it's attention.
It is attention in thesecondary intervention space so
many offerings out there rightnow but we want to find that you
know spot where it doesn't feelbabyish to the students.
But it's also something that isaddressing the skills they need
(25:45):
.
And I agree, Lori, when yousell it and when you're excited,
the students are excited too.
They might not say it at first,but they are looking for
answers, they're looking forstrategies, they're looking for
things that can help them whenthey feel like struggles day to
day.
They're looking for help, andso this is something that can be
fun and that collaborativeenvironment is really neat to
(26:07):
see in the tier two, tier threesettings.
Melissa (26:10):
And you also mentioned writing already, and the writing
revolution specifically, butwriting can sometimes be a
challenge for our students too.
But I'm wondering how you kindof use writing to help your
students actually comprehendthese tough texts, instead of it
feeling like now we just havetwo challenges a tough text and
you have to write about it.
Christina Cover (26:30):
Yes, I joke all the time with the writing
revolution and the Hockmanmethod.
I'm the most enthusiasticunpaid member of the writing
revolution fan club Like I haveno, but I just love talking
about it because I really thinkthat the writing revolution has
served as a phenomenal check forcomprehension for my students.
(26:51):
And I think you know, sincetaking on this kind of lead ELA
teacher role this past yeartowards the end of the year,
I've really been all in on thewriting revolution because I
think that it is a bit of acheckpoint.
You know, do not go forward.
Do you really understand whatwe read in class?
(27:13):
What's so cool about writingactivities, sentence level
activities following the Hockmanmethod?
In my opinion, you can'tcomplete these activities unless
you've read the text.
You just can't.
You know the because, but so'sthe subordinating conjunctions.
I know my students are so tiredof hearing the word a positive.
The amount of times I've triedto bring that one forward, but I
(27:38):
think some of them are reallygetting it.
But I think it's a phenomenalcheck for comprehension because
you're able to use whether it'sthe 57 bus or Romeo and Juliet
or night you can use those texts, create these custom activities
and students will have to haveread the text in order to
complete the activity.
And if they haven't, it's beenso cool this year to see
(28:00):
students going back into theirworkbooks, back into their books
, searching, asking questions ohwhere was this again, what page
was this on?
And I think that theircomprehension of the text has
really increased because theyhad to use the writing
revolution activity knowledge.
They've had to use theirknowledge in order to complete
those writing revolutionactivities and I think that it's
(28:22):
translated to more engagedconversations about the text and
more engagement around thereadings.
You know.
So I've been all in and I thinkthat I've seen increased
comprehension using the WritingRevolution this year.
Do you use it?
Lori (28:37):
across contents.
Christina Cover (28:39):
Oh, that's the question, lori, that's what you
know.
We're really hoping to continueto push for and we're seeing
that again.
You know, thinking of otherschools in the district, other
schools across the country, fromwhat I'm seeing in my district
in the city, we're seeing thatwhen teachers are across the
board, going all in, usingstrategies in a consistent way,
(29:02):
we're seeing increased successfor the students.
And so I've had the opportunityto partner with the Writing
Revolution and bring a PD to myschool, where teachers got
involved, they got to learn moreabout TWR and so there is some
interest in ongoing training inthe summer going into next year
for my school, which is exciting.
(29:23):
It feels like we're making somesteps there and even until then
I've been able to talk withcolleagues and they've told me
in the hallway hey, you know, msCover, I use this strategy from
TWR and I gave it a try, so Ican't say that we're at all
content level like every contentbefore.
Is that consistency whichrelieves that cognitive load and
(29:44):
ensures that students don'tfeel stressed as much, going
from this strategy to thisstrategy, they see some
consistency and that can helpwith their academic success.
So it's certainly no lighteffort.
(30:07):
It's certainly an undertakingat the school-wide level.
But having allies in the workis so important and I think that
we're seeing some progress andit's exciting to see all the
strategies that colleagues areputting forth.
We're also leaning into QFT,the question formulation
technique at my school right now, which is, I think, something
(30:30):
coming out of Harvard Universityand the Right Question
Institute.
We've seen some really greatstudent experiences around QFT
as well.
So you know, I think everyteacher comes in with like this
is my thing.
I want everyone to try to usethis thing.
So I think it takes a balanceof implementation and then also
some grace, as that work takestime.
(30:52):
But we've been making some goodprogress and even at this class
level a lot of positiveprogress can be made if you're
all in on an evidence-basedtechnique.
Lori (31:02):
Oh my gosh, so important, yes, and you took the words out
of my mouth that, like, progresstakes time and I love that
you're just at an entry point offiguring it out together and it
seems like you know, I love theidea of having some
professional learnings thissummer, seeing what sticks, what
you can get, you know, movingin the meantime while you wait
for school to start again.
(31:23):
So, christina, something I'mthinking a lot about as you're
speaking is these strategiesthat you're sharing, right this,
getting the gist, which isreally summarizing, building
vocabulary knowledge, usingthese metacognitive tools and
really integrating writing ineverything.
How do these strategies differthan, like, test prep strategies
(31:48):
or test taking strategies?
How are these different?
I'd love to hear from youbecause I feel like I have some
ideas in my head and I wouldactually encourage listeners
just to pause and think aboutthat too, because I know it can,
as we're all educators.
It's like this test taking timeof the year.
It's really stressful andthinking about test taking
strategies and test preparation,which I think has a space,
(32:12):
right, a time and a place, aswell as these strategies that
you're talking about too, likehow do they work together?
How are they different?
I'm sure that's very nuanced.
Christina Cover (32:23):
Certainly, certainly, and I have to give
another shout out Dr KatiePace-Miles and all of her
amazing work.
She's great.
And I just wrapped up myadvanced certificate in reading
science experience throughBrooklyn College and it was
awesome.
And for my review of researchtopic in the spring, I focused
(32:44):
on reading comprehension, whichI know I told you, melissa and
Lori, on the pre-call that I wasso excited to get to dive in
and then go to get to talk today.
And I agree, lori, it's reallyI've noticed even in my research
where I still have so much tolearn.
But there's such a tension, Ithink, particularly at the high
school level and at thesecondary level, when we think
(33:05):
about test prep strategies andtest taking strategies versus
comprehension strategies.
And from what I'm starting tokind of glean, you know, and
even in my couple of years, myshort experience comparatively
as a teacher, I think that Inoticed that when there's a
focus on comprehension and it'snot test taking, the gravity,
(33:30):
you know, the center, the coreof the focus in the classroom is
on the text instead of the test.
And I've had some really tensewell, not tense, but I think
everything's so tense but I'vehad some conversations with
colleagues and folks over theyears where teachers feel so
much pressure to teach to thetest and so it's like I'm sorry,
(33:52):
you know, ms Cover literacyinterventionist we don't have
time to focus on comprehensionand digging deep.
We've really got to get to thisregion, we've really got to get
to this end of year summativeassessment, and so it is such a
tension.
But I think that it's importantto focus on that center and you
(34:12):
know, I've been reading andlistening to a lot of Natalie
Wexler's amazing work andreading the knowledge gap and
having those conversations withcolleagues in evidence-based
comprehension activities, whilealso acknowledging the need to
have those opportunities fortest-taking strategy and
(34:37):
test-taking review and prep.
And you know, I think even inthe advanced certificate program
with Dr Katie Pace-Miles therewas a lecturer on who said even
Kaplan and some of these reallyrenowned test-taking companies
have strategies embedded thatderive from some of those
comprehension evidence-basedtechniques.
(34:59):
So I think that too often,because of the ways that high
school teachers are stretched sothin, they can feel in
competition.
They can feel in competitioncomprehension test prep.
They can feel incompetentioncomprehension test prep.
They can feel in conflict.
But I think there's a worldwhere we can work towards a
synthesis where strong, tier oneinstruction is happening all
(35:21):
year and we're using Get theGist, we're using CSR, we're
using TWR those real world testtaking strategies, especially
towards the end, to give ourstudents the best possible
chance at success in the testand in life beyond high school.
So it's something that I'mlearning a lot about and I think
(35:45):
that that concept of aknowledge gap is something also
that we need to be reckoningwith, because for so many
students, that knowledge thatthey didn't have access to
because of decoding or fluencystruggles over the years, we
can't expect our secondaryeducators to be able to address
all of that in the span of ayear, plus get them ready for
(36:05):
their regents or their stateexams.
So it's a true struggle, it's atension, but I think there's a
place for both in our secondaryschools.
Lori (36:15):
Yeah, and that's such a good point, christina, and you
know I wish that you were in myschool as, like you know, it's
not like one or the other.
Yeah, test taking strategiesare helpful to learn, but not in
(36:37):
absence of really good tier oneinstruction, which includes a
whole host of things that youmentioned.
So I appreciate that.
So we know that there's a placefor test taking strategies.
You just kind of shared thatand I was going to ask you about
it next.
But is there anything else youwant to say about that, like
what that could look likeeffectively?
Christina Cover (36:57):
For sure you know I again in that research
and you know my research paper.
It felt like a lot to me, but Iknow it's a minuscule amount of
all the research that's outthere on comprehension and
knowledge building.
I did a deep dive on the workof ED Hirsch and core knowledge,
which was a whole nother worldthat I wasn't familiar with.
(37:19):
I mean, we talk about, you know, the reading wars and the
science of reading, debates anddiscussions, but knowledge
building is something that I'dreally love to learn more about.
But we know that when we lookto the IES practice guides and
we look to best practices forolder striving readers, that a
majority of older students withcomprehension difficulties, like
(37:41):
I mentioned before, also havethose difficulties with word
level reading and fluency, andso you know we should never
minimize those skills when weconsider how to improve outcomes
.
And so I think that as wecontinue to do this work, we'll
want to keep on pushing for, asI mentioned, those strong,
evidence-based practices.
Give those students who needthat word level work
(38:03):
opportunities to be part ofprograms like Phonics for
Reading or Rewards in smallgroups and then also collaborate
on the tier one level so thatall teachers have access to
strategies that are in theirback pockets that can address
comprehension in alignment withthe evidence.
It's a measure of accountability, you know.
(38:30):
It's something that's a bitpolitical too in so many
respects, particularly insystemically under-resourced
communities like the Bronx andplaces where we want students
Black.
Trying to do finding thatbalance, consider these
comprehension strategiesembedded throughout the year and
(38:56):
then, of course, with a bigexam coming up, to try to embed
test taking but to try to keepthe center of gravity to the
text and not as much to the testwhenever possible.
And I think that focus on thetext will hopefully give
students strategies that theycan apply even after that test
is done.
(39:16):
But I know that it's easiersaid than done and it takes
system level conversations withadministrators, with colleagues,
and it takes a lot of trial anderror in the classroom with
students 100%.
Lori (39:29):
I want to just say to Christina, it makes a lot of
sense.
I love the idea of thinkingabout the center of gravity and
like kind of where it shouldfall a little bit more toward.
Maybe it's not centered, maybea little off center, or what's
in the center versus what's onthe outside.
But I love that and I think youknow it's one of those things
that Melissa and I talk aboutall the time on the podcast.
You have to practice thingsSometimes.
(39:51):
You just have to practice toget better sometimes, and to me
it's like you know, I wouldnever put a test in front of a
kid that I haven't done a littlepractice with.
At the same time, I'd want togive them lots more practice
with the bigger picture thingsthat matter, right Cause that's
like long, it's a long game.
The test is a short game.
The long game is, you know, yousee it pay off.
(40:13):
So I don't know, melissa, isthere anything you want to add
to that?
Well, I was going to say thosewill.
Melissa (40:18):
I mean, they will also help with the test.
You know you have to do allthose real things to help them
as readers, to help them besuccessful on the test.
But I also want to just get toone last thing with you,
christina, because I can't letyou leave without talking about
Project for Adolescent Literacy,because in all your free time
(40:40):
as a you know special educationteacher and a literacy
coordinator, you have taken onthis whole project with other
teachers, including Julie Brown,who's been on our podcast, who
is amazing, and you got you allare specifically doing just some
work and finding outinformation about adolescent
readers and many who may needsupport, even at the decoding
(41:01):
level right, the decoding at theword level.
So even you know more than whatwe've talked about on this
podcast today, but we don't havea ton of time, so can you just
give us a you know fewhighlights from what you've
learned from that project.
Christina Cover (41:15):
Absolutely, and thank you both so much again
for your support of teachers allover the country, all over the
world who listen in, and withthis project for adolescent
literacy we're also getting tohear from teachers across the
country, across the world, folkswho are really interested in
bringing the same energy andexcitement and focused attention
(41:38):
that is being given toelementary work and trying to
bring more science of reading,evidence-based instruction to
the elementary level.
We're also hoping to buildcapacity so there's momentum on
the secondary level too.
So it's been a really coolexperience.
We have our phase one projectreport out on the Seek Common
(42:01):
Ground website so that'savailable for everyone to check
out.
And you know we're trying ourbest to be very open source.
We say all the time that thematerials that we're gathering
and learning about do notnecessarily represent or are
endorsed by our PAL steeringcommittee, but we do have in the
appendix of the report some ofthe resources and approaches
that have been coming up themost among the folks who
(42:24):
responded to our survey workacross the country, and so
certainly Orton-Gillingham,wilson Rewards, lexia, power Up
Writing Revolution, which wetalked about today.
Take Aim at Vocabulary, rhymeMagic, winston Grammar these are
the ones that seem to rise tothe top among secondary
(42:45):
educators who say that they'reseeing positive action and
positive results in theirclassrooms action and positive
results in their classrooms.
So I think it's so cool to havean opportunity to talk directly
to teachers, see what they'reusing, because often the
policies are different thanwhat's actually happening in the
classrooms, and so we're tryingto create a space where
teachers can be really honestwith what's working for them,
(43:08):
what they're trying to create,what they're trying to build,
and we're trying to buildcapacity, and so we're excited
to see what other curriculumrises to the surface across the
country, and in the next coupleweeks we'll be embarking on
phase two and building thesecommunities of practice around
assessment, around instructionalmaterials.
Subscribe to our email list bysending us an email at pal at
(43:32):
seekcommongroundorg, and thenthey can get involved.
I check those emails myself andso you can reach out anytime,
and this is what I do outside ofschool.
I'm separate from school justto try to help build capacity in
this space, and we're lookingforward to what's coming up this
summer.
Melissa (43:49):
I really don't know how you have time to do all that
you do, but you are veryimpressive.
Lori (43:55):
I was going to say literally eat dinner.
How do you?
Christina Cover (43:57):
have time, you're the best you know eating
dinner, looking at the surveyresults and it just.
It makes it easy when it's whenit's a passion and when it's
it's so cool.
So it's been a dream side gigfor sure.
And hearing from other teachersfrom the Bronx to Colorado to
Wyoming, with similarexperiences, it's just been so
(44:18):
awesome and makes me feelencouraged and uplifted as we
try to keep this work going Well.
Lori (44:24):
We are linking all of this stuff in our show notes.
Christina, like Melissa and Ihave been crazy linking stuff
while you were been talkingtoday, but I want you to repeat
that email address one more timefor anyone listening.
Yes, that is pal.
Christina Cover (44:38):
P-A-L at ccommongroundorg and we get
those emails and we'll add youto the list.
Lori (44:46):
Great, Perfect.
Well, I'm going to sign upright after this episode, but
this is amazing.
Your energy is contagious andthank you for just reminding us
of the power of you know,positivity, curiosity and really
strategicness, Just so.
You're just so smart with howstrategic you are.
(45:06):
It makes it work smarter, notharder, and that's so necessary,
especially with our olderreaders, whether they're third
grade quote older and strugglingor sixth grade or 12th grade,
because we know that they haveless time in our school system
than all of the other ones.
So thank you for all that youdo.
Melissa (45:25):
Yeah, and thank you for sharing everything today.
It's been amazing.
Christina Cover (45:29):
Thank you so much for the opportunity.
Thank you both for yourleadership.
Thank you so much for theopportunity.
Melissa (45:35):
Thank you both for your leadership.
Thank you so much.
To stay connected with us, signup for our email list at
literacypodcastcom, join ourFacebook group and follow us on
Instagram and Twitter.
Lori (45:46):
If this episode resonated with you, take a moment to share
with a teacher friend or leaveus a five-star rating and review
on Apple Podcasts.
Melissa (45:56):
Just a quick reminder that the views and opinions
expressed by the hosts andguests of the Melissa and Lori
Love Literacy Podcast are notnecessarily the opinions of
Great Minds PBC or its employees.
Lori (46:08):
We appreciate you so much and we're so glad you're here to
learn with us.
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