117 Mark Silverman | Mastering Midlife

Mark Silverman is an executive coach who helps CEOs and Senior Leadership teams focus on making sure the right work gets done in their organizations. He also helps clients deal with overwhelm personally as well as professionally and helps them thrive throughout midlife and beyond.

SHOW HIGHLIGHTS

• Introverts make great salesmen!?
• How coaching offers what CEOs are missing
• Stress and anxiety impacting job performance
• Mastering overwhelm
• Why men tend to go nuclear in midlife

MARK J. SILVERMAN

Mark Silverman is no stranger to overcoming adversity and mastering his own overwhelm. When he was 27, he was homeless, 135lbs, and living in his truck. 10 years later he, he was a millionaire. Mark is on a mission to take the lessons learned along the way, paired with his business acumen, to help others define and achieve their own successes.

He is the author of the Bestselling “Only 10s 2.0 – Confront Your To- Do List, Transform Your Life” which has sold over 70,000 copies to date. Mark is also the host of the “Mastering Overwhelm – How To Thrive in Business, Relationship and Life” podcast and working on his third book.

CONNECT WITH TODAY’S GUEST

• Website
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• Training – Rising Leader
• FREE Resources – Mastering Overwhelm
• FREE Resources – Only 10s eBook

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
All right guys.
Welcome, welcome, welcome backto The Men to Mastery Podcast.
This is episode one 17.
With Mark Silverman.
Mark Silverman is an executivecoach to CEOs and senior
leadership teams.
He helps them focus on makingsure their organizations get the
right work done at the righttime, and, uh, my opinion,

(00:21):
perhaps even more importantly,he helps executives.
He helps those professionals,uh, with personal and
professional overwhelm and helpsmake sure they can thrive and
find fulfillment.
Through their midlife andmid-career.
So before I get into a fewhighlights of the episode with
Mark, I wanna offer two updatesor two things.

(00:42):
So one is around, uh, as youknow, I've been away from the
podcast for a bit, working onthe, the podcast itself, working
on developing new business, newclient, a coaching offering, as
well as, Some better ways we canconnect as a community and uh,
and collaborate.
So I'd like to offer you somedetail around all that, but I

(01:03):
will push it here to the end ofthe episode in the interest and
respect for your time.
So if you're interested in that,and I hope you are, please stay
tuned after we cut away from theepisode with Mark, uh, or you
can fast forward.
This will probably be aroundminute mark 52 to 54, somewhere
in there.
We'll get into that update.

(01:24):
All right.
And the, the second thing, andthis relates directly to this
episode is it was just recentlyMemorial Day.
Uh, we just recently had theJune 6th D-day holiday, and of
course, July 4th, independenceDay is coming up.
So Memorial Day, my, my familyand I, we, we did Murph again.
Right?
If you're familiar with thatworkout.
So it's, it's a bit of a movingmemorial.

(01:46):
It's our way of honoring, uh, ofsuffering a bit.
And, and trying to connect tothose who have given so much,
who have given everything.
In many cases, who have sufferedmuch, much more for our
freedoms.
And moreover, beyond that, um,that exercise, that moving
memorial, uh, we gave explicitlyto in particular charities who

(02:08):
are focused on the, the issue,uh, the epidemic, if you will,
of veteran suicide, uh, militaryveterans.
Law enforcement, other firstresponders.
And, and here's the thing, this,this issue that we just don't
talk about enough, and we arecertainly not dealing with
effectively enough as a countryand a culture and a society, I.

(02:29):
Goes, goes beyond that, right?
And, and it also hits very, veryhard in the midlife male
category for for whateverreason.
And I think some of thosereasons relate exactly to what
we're gonna talk about todaywith Mark.
So here's the segue, and here'ssome of the highlights with Mark
Silverman.
Uh, we, so Mark, before he wasan executive coach, was a very,

(02:52):
very highly successful.
Salesperson in the technologyspace.
So we're gonna talk about thatcareer arc.
We're gonna talk about kind ofthe fuel behind your, your
career and why, what worked inyour twenties, thirties, maybe
even forties, may not besustainable into your fifties,
sixties, sort of that midlifecareer stage and beyond.

(03:13):
And we talk about why men havethis tendency in mid-career
midlife to just blow things up,right?
Kind of go nuclear with changerather than make.
Incremental ratcheting stylechanges, uh, again, that they
may have in, in a fashionearlier in their life and in
their career.
So around all of that, we'regonna talk about stress and

(03:36):
anxiety, how it affects your,your job performance, how it
affects your life, and how tomaster some of that overwhelm.
Um, Lastly, we'll talk aboutwhere coaching fits in as a role
to all this.
Uh, this really permeates theepisode because it's what Mark
is so good at and specializesin, but in particular how

(03:56):
coaching is often something thatCEOs in particular and other
senior leaders in executiveroles are missing.
And, and here the two main areasthat I find that it is missing
and we talk about with Marktoday.
Is oftentimes, uh, you, youreach a level of success and
seniority, uh, hierarchicalleadership, positional

(04:17):
leadership, where theimpartiality of opinion and
advice starts to be missing,right?
You end up with the yes men.
And in that you're missingsomebody to really call you out
on your bullshit and somebody toobserve the things you can't see
yourselves, right?
The classic shadows or blindspots.

(04:37):
And we have all of us, too manyof both of those things, right?
The areas where we're BSingourselves.
And where you literally look inthe mirror and see things with
your mind differently thanperhaps reality is, or, or that
others might observe.
So we're gonna get into all thattoday with, with Mark Silverman.
And, uh, we'll jump right inhere now.

(04:58):
But again, uh, Come back afterwe cut away from the episode
with Mark.
Uh, I'll let you know where tofind the show notes for this
episode, some freebies where youcan dive deeper with Mark
Silverman.
And then of course, the, theupdates I promised you on what's
going on here with the Men toMastery Community.
All right.
With that, let's get into itwith Executive Coach Mark
Silverman.

Michael (05:37):
mark Silverman welcome.
I'm, I'm very excited for thisconversation today.
Mark Silverman is an executivecoach, an author, also a podcast
host.
He is a speaker and he workswith CEOs around the world
helping turn their fast risinghigh achievers into effective
leaders.
A topic I, I really love and isnear, near and dear to my heart.
I think we, we all know ifwe're, if we're somewhere on

(05:58):
this path, That success,effective leadership, effective
business starts with leadingourselves and and starting with
the inner work first.
So we know that adversity is agift.
It is really the, the path tosuccess and Mark is, is no no
stranger to adversity.
At 27 years old, he was livingout of his car homeless down to

(06:18):
135 pounds.
And by what, five or six yearslater, at the age of 33, he was
a millionaire.
So we've, we've got the, we'vegot the hero journey, we've
always got the character arc.

Mark Silverman (06:28):
Excuse me, on his tape sets.
He'd always say, I was living ina one room basement apartment,
and, you know, and I went and Istudied success and did all
those things.
And, you know, whenever I'm onstage, I'm always asked to tell
that story of being homeless.
And, you know, how did, how didthat, that all happen?
And I get really bored with it,but I forget that it's actually.
It, it, it gives inspiration topeople that no matter where you

(06:50):
are on the journey, it canchange, it can be something
different.
And I, I had two of thosejourneys, so yes, I was, I was a
drunken, I was an alcoholic, adrug addict, a sex addict, and
you know, I was, I was a, I wasa mess at 27 years old.
And it all finally kind of cameto a head where I had no place
to live.
I had no food, I had no moneyleft.

(07:11):
And I was living in my little,my little red Toyota pickup
truck.
And I came to Washington, DC toborrow some money from my
brother.
I was living, I was on the westcoast at that time, so I drove
across, I drove across thecountry and he put me in AA and
Narcotics Anonymous, and hesaid, you're gonna go to the
gym.
And by the way, when I was 130,I was actually 130 pounds.
I, I thought I was.

(07:33):
I always thought I was fat mywhole entire life.
And I see pictures now from theweek that I drove into DC and
I'm like, holy mackerel.
Like dysmorphia is a thing.
So what happened was, I, youknow, I started, I enrolled, he,
he had me enroll in college.
These were, these were like thestipulations for me to.
Crash on his couch.
Right?
And I did those things and itwas really interesting to do

(07:56):
things sober, right?
To, to find out that I actuallyhad an aptitude for learning.
You know, going back to schoolin your thirties is a very
different thing cuz you're kindof choosing to be there.
So my, my journey there wasdifferent then you know, I
waited on tables and everything.
I fi and I finally got my firstprofessional job as a sales guy
because I had no skills.

(08:17):
I was shy I was introverted.
I don't like to bother people.
And I got a sales job where Ihad a call 60 people a day,
otherwise I didn't get paid,right?
So, like for me that.
Freaking hell.
But at somehow, because I'minterested in other people and
they say I've learned since, youknow, becoming a successful
sales guy, that introverts makereally good sales people because

(08:39):
we're interested in otherpeople.
How do we help you get where youwanna go?
My am my being an empathactually was helpful.
I didn't look like the othersales guys who were, you know,
out partying, bringing people tostrip joints and doing all that
stuff.
But clients, you know, customerstrusted me.
So I, I went from that job toanother job and I doubled my
income.
Then I went to another job anddoubled my income, and then

(09:00):
someone said, you know, youshould come work for this big
company and really learn how todo sales.
So I was like, okay.
I had no plan.
Right.
You know, like I was, I hadnever made more than 20
something thousand dollars ayear, you know?
So now I'm in the high techindustry in the late nineties,
early two thousands.
You know, and I'm going.
The startup to startup, and ifyou look at my resume, my resume

(09:23):
is the who's who of the fastestgrowing companies in Silicon
Valley history.
You and again, who I was, younever would've thought that.
Here's the interesting thing.
I got married, I had kids, I gota convertible, I bought a
million dollar house.
I did all those things, right?
But inside, I'm still thishomeless guy, right?
And I think you talk aboutshadow work you know, and, and

(09:45):
doing that internal beliefs workon yourself.
So even though on the outside,I'm living in Alesia, right?
I'm living in in status symbolland, and I'm the committee
chair for the Boy Scouts and I'mthe third grade basketball
coach, right?
And I'm all things to allpeople.
inside.
It's just not jiving.
And so stone cold sober in 2008.
My marriage falls apart andlike, again, this, this is, this

(10:07):
is the hard for me thing for meto comprehend.
Like, I wasn't, I didn't drinkso I wouldn't screw things up.
And stone cold sober, mymarriage falls apart.
My ex-wife and I were fightingand fighting and fighting,
couldn't get along.
My, I couldn't sell anything.
My my.
Whatever was wrong with meinternally, I could not sell a
thing.
And I'm working for one of thebest technology companies on the
planet.

(10:27):
And I, I, I was having panicattacks every day.
Like meeting ex I would walk inthe hall and meet an executive
that I normally would, wouldwork with, and I'd have to run
in the bathroom cause I couldn'tbreathe.
Hmm.
Or I'd be in a do doing apresentation in a meeting and I
start to.
I'm like, what the, what isgoing on with me?
My immune system just startedgoing crazy and I started losing

(10:48):
weight again, and I got reallysick and they told me I was
gonna, I was probably gonna die.
I was misdiagnosed, thank God,but I, I thought I was gonna
die.
So I made this decision at 48years old that if I was gonna
die, I needed to leave amillion.
For my ex-wife and my kids, Ijust need to go make a million
dollars this year and somehow dothat.
So I, I like, so here's, here'sthe singularity of goals, right?

(11:08):
My book is only tens, right?
Like, what, what, what is themost essential thing that you
can commit yourself to?
So I was committed.
To leaving an extra milliondollars for my ex-wife and my
kids.
I heard when I was in theparking lot of one of the
doctors this guy on the radio,Stu Middleman, who was an
ultra-marathoner, he says,everybody can run.
It is our birthright as humans,as bipedal people that we can

(11:30):
run.
So I called him and I said, Ineed to run the Marine Corps
marathon.
I wanna show my kids what I didwith adversity.
When I die, I want them to seethat they're dead.
One of his last things was heran the Marine Corps marathon.
He says, yeah, it takes abouttwo years cuz I couldn't run a
mile.
He says, it takes about.
I said, no, I need to run it ineight months.
I need to run it in October.
He goes, yeah, I'm not so sure.

(11:50):
But anyway, he said he took meon in You know, we did phone
calls and, and he had metraining and then I decided I
wanted to give$60,000 to charitycuz I just felt so bad about
myself for screwing up my life,my marriage, my kids,
everything.
So I, I had these three goals inthat year.
I got a new job, like out of theblue, someone called me and
said, Hey, come work with thisstartup.

(12:11):
So I went to work there andthat.
It took, it took about a yearand a quarter to make the
million dollars.
I made the million dollars, Igave a$60,000 charity, and I ran
the Marine Corps marathon anhour faster than my coach even
thought I could do.
So what happens?
I'm healthier than I've everbeen.
my career's, taking off my kidsand my ex-wife for good.
And I'm, I'm sitting here witha, you know, with another run in

(12:34):
with the Phoenix kind of thing,you know, in the Ashes and
rising, and I realized, Thenthat.
I cre I can create my life.
It wasn't as articulate.
Now, now I'm an executive coach,so I have the fancy language to
talk about how we create ourlives, how we make choices, and
incremental, you know,improvements and all that.

(12:55):
But while I was training for themarathon, I listened to every
self-help book ever written.
I listened to every spiritualbook, you know, every,
everything I could get my handson while I was running because I
wanted to build a new.
I wanted to build a new person.
I didn't wanna be the person Iwas before, and I never knew
that you didn't have to be whoyou were.

(13:15):
I don't have to be tomorrow, whoI am today.
I can change, you know, mypersonality is fluid.
It's a made up thing.
Anyway, so that was the start ofmy trajectory towards becoming
an executive coach and wantingto help other people understand
their free.
So that's, that's my, my, youknow short Jewish Tony Robbins
story.

(13:36):
Of how I came to, you know, justdedicating my life to other
people, not having to crash andburn that way to find out that
they can reinvent themselves.

Michael (13:44):
Yeah.
Tony always talks about eitherinspiration or desperation.
So I suppose if you can helppeople with the inspiration
approach to next level versusthe crash and burn approach,
some of us learn the hard way.
It does seem like, I was justhaving this conversation
recently and we had a guest onwho studied, you know, sort of
the type A personality, the, thepeople that are really wired a
certain.

(14:04):
It's all in, on everything.
Right?
Maybe it's all in on theaddictions.
You mentioned early on, or it'sall in, could be all in on
health, could be all in on

Mark Silverman (14:12):
religion.
No, I'm, I'm going through, I'mgoing through your podcast.
I'm looking at all the topicsthat you covered.
Yeah.
And I could see myself 15 yearsago saying I'm with.
Do that, and I'm gonna do thatand I'm gonna be that guy and
I'm gonna meditate, but I'm alsogonna do a triathlon and I'm
gonna do that.
And you know, that same thing isright, like you can't sit with
yourself.
So you go do, you know, createthis monster of a human and you

(14:33):
think you're David Goggins butmeanwhile you still can't sit in
a room all by yourself and be

Michael (14:38):
right, right?
Yeah.
And, and in some ways I thinkthat it like chasing the next
shiny object.
May be beneficial, it may have,it may have assets, it may have
benefits, but at the same time,it's probably just distracting
from what we really need to do.
And that might be somethingthat's pretty simple.
Simple but not easy.
Is a, is a phrase I come acrossa lot, right.
Just sitting with yourself,quiet, starting to maybe become

(15:00):
aware of, of thoughts and startto end that this is, you know,
part of the process I've gonethrough.
You're, you're talking abouteffectively.
The stories that we tellourselves sort of what we've
programmed or been programmedwith, and the awareness to start
to question those and, and, andthe freedom, the power to modify
them and recreate ourselves,recreate our stories, making

(15:20):
empowering stories.
We've all got, you know, you,you said you love to tell the
story and maybe it's, it's oldto you, but it's new to somebody
else.
We've all got our traumas anddramas, right?
It helps us connect and berelatable to each other.
And we've, we've all gottasomehow deal with that stuff to
get better at who we are now tobecome.
And, and be conscious about whatwe wanna become next

Mark Silverman (15:43):
if we can only get people to believe you, that
we all have our dramas andtraumas, right?
So you meet people and youcompare your outsides to their
insides.
That old saying, right?
But the truth is, you, any,everybody I get to know and have
a deep conversation with.
Has some kind of a story likemine.
It's, you know, the charactersare different, the circumstances
are different, but they've hadto endure or deal with

(16:06):
something.
There's very few people who'vehad that idyllic upbringing in
childhood and, and that, thathas its own problems when you
come into the real world.

Michael (16:14):
yeah, a hundred percent.
Right.
We're we're talking about sortof adversity you know, forging
the, the diamonds under pressuretype of thing or whatever
analogy you want to use.
And, and yeah, the other extremeis like, if, if life's too easy
if you went through our, ourpodcast list, Michael Easter
wrote The Comfort Crisis, right?
So there's, there's this crisisat the other end of the
spectrum.
I, I gotta think, you know, forsomeone like yourself who works
pretty primarily with topachievers, top top sales guys,

(16:38):
maybe CEOs, a a lot of thosefolks are wired the way that we
are, the way that we're talkingabout.
Yes.
So have these same challengeshave the same traumas and
dramas?
Yeah.
So Maybe, I guess, let me askthis as a, as a starting place
because I, I know part of yourspecialty is, is helping that
C-suite or helping thoseachievers become also good

(16:59):
leaders, not just individualperformers, but but excellent
leaders.
What's sort of the, what's yourpath in, where do you start with
these guys?
And, and here's the reason I I,I, I'm fascinated by this, is I
run into a lot of CEOs that sortof have this egoic, you know,
Hey, I, I, I made it.
I'm successful.
I know what I'm doing.
I don't need a coach.

(17:19):
I don't need help.
I've already got a formula thatworks, obviously.
You know, look at me and look atmy company.
So maybe sort of tone deaf tothe holistic health and holistic
balance and achievement we'retalking about for themselves,
may not even believe they needhelp or work on themselves.
And then, you know, casting thatout to, to their team.
So how do you, how do you sortof break through that?

(17:41):
Or what's a typical firstconversation look like as a
coach for a ceo?

Mark Silverman (17:45):
It's funny, I was just talking to one of, one
of my CEOs who's been with mefor four years and we were, we
were talking about doing ananother, another year together.
And one of the problems, and Isaid one of, you know, one of
the problems with us workingtogether is you're too rich,
your girlfriend's too pretty,and you know, like, you just
don't need to do anything,right?
Like, like there's no urgencyfor any of this stuff, so we

(18:06):
have to find something for youto be passionate about.
But he said, I do remember.
So we, we talked about, youknow, what does he have now?
Cuz I always do a review youknow, after six months or a year
with someone and find out.
And he says, well, I have myintegrity back.
He says, the reason I hired youwas in that first conversation
you told me that I had nointegrity and I was furious at

(18:28):
you because I am so honest andI'm so careful with my word and
my integrity and, and you said,but you're cheating on your
wife.
So you have no integrity.
Like there's no integrityanywhere.
If you're cheating on your wife,you're not, you have no
integrity.
And he said, that's why he hiredme, because he want, he want, he

(18:49):
wanted his integrity back morethan anything.
You know, his marriage was over,like it wa it, but, you know, so
all of the justifications werethere.
But you know, like his, hewasn't his word and it took him
a long time to become an honestperson.
So now he's in this wonderfulnew relationship where he's an
honest man in that relationship,speaks his mind, speaks his
truth.

(19:09):
So usually my way in my, mycareer's changed a little, it
used to be, CEOs who were krakenat the seams.
So my, my, my podcast wasmastering midlife.
I was the midlife crisis guy,right?
But then I turned 60 and Idecided I'm a little too old for
midlife, and I'll leave it toyou guys.
to now I'm the, now I'm thegeriatric mastery guy, but my,
my you know, so it's usually thecracks were showing for them.

(19:31):
And someone would call me andsay, he really needs to talk to
Mark.
So, because it only, you have tohave the cracks, otherwise you
won't.
Right.
Something has to stop working.

Michael (19:41):
So, j just a quick question on, on that mark.
So when you say the, the guysbusting the seams or the cracks,
was that, was that more.
Maybe they're successful inbusiness, but the rest of their
life was, was falling apart orwas that more about, Hey, I've,
I've reached this level of whatI call success, but I'm unhappy,
I'm miserable.
I, I Fulfillment,

Mark Silverman (19:58):
purpose.
Yeah.
I'm bored or I'm, I'm, I'mstarting to see my temper show
up and, you know, becausethey're bored, their temper
shows up or, It's a, it's, it's,it could be any myriad thing.
The, the premise of masteringmidlife was, you know, the, the
drives and motivations that getyou through your twenties and
thirties start to turn on you inyour forties and fifties, right?
So how many of us have becomesuccessful?
Like, I became successfulbecause I never wanted anybody

(20:21):
to see that homeless guy again.
Right.
So I covered it up with ego bosssuits and a gold watch and a and
a and a sports car, right?
But that guy was still there.
So what happens in your fortiesand fifties if you don't listen
to that internal clock and youknow, saying something needs to
change, something needs toshift.
You start to drift away in yourrelationships, you start to
drift away from, from who youare.

(20:42):
And the midlife crisis, the jobcrisis, the health crisis, the
relationship crisis just blowsup in your face.
You know, women tend to go intolike adrenal fatigue and go
down.
Men tend to blow shit up, right?
Like, like I can't, I don't likethis.
I don't know how toincrementally change anything.
Cause I can't have a deep con,I'm an honest conversation with

(21:02):
my wife.
So we blow shit up and thenfigure out what we, what to do
with the pieces, right?
So my career has really shiftednow because these CEOs have been
calling me and saying, I gotso-and-so, and I, and I, I hate
to use always be on the, on themasculine on this, but most of
my clients are, man, you know, Igot so-and-so rockstar, no
manner.
you're bull in a China closet.

(21:22):
Can you teach him some manners?
Right.
Or I got another rockstar whowon't.
Like, he's now in the C-suite,he's part of my, my senior
leadership team, right?
But he won't get his hands offthe reins of the day-to-day,
right?
Mm-hmm.
he won't set vision, right?
Right.
So I, I get, I get, I get calledwhen there's someone, someone
who's been young.
Talented and rising really fastgets, puts on the leadership

(21:44):
team and needs to be matured andmeans needs to learn those
skills.
I just had dinner with twoclients who I've had for.
Four years.
I guess they're four years now.
When I first met them I wasn'tas successful as I am now, so I
needed, I needed every check Igot, right?
I was still taking care of anex-wife, two kids, elderly
parents, all this stuff, and Ileft my lucrative career to be a

(22:05):
air quotes coach.
So I, I'm really, you know,cognizant that I need the check.
So I fly, I I do international.
So I fly to their country.
This was way before Covid andI'm meeting with them and this
is a done deal.
The c e o has already decided,this is just a chemistry
meeting.
They're gonna give me my fatcheck.
So they come in to talk to meand I, I, I can't believe you
know this, this comes outta mymouth cuz the cha again, don't,

(22:28):
I'm a sales guy, don't ever talkyourself outta the sale.
And I said, I said to each oneof'em, I said, look, I said, I'm
glad you, I'm glad you, youknow, you said yes, you wanna
work with me now I have a couplethings to ask you.
I said, you're gonna besuccessful with, or.
And by the way, I wear a solidgold,$35,000 watch.
I don't care about your success.
What I care about are, are yougonna be the kind of fathers

(22:50):
your sons need?
Are you gonna be the kind ofhusbands your wives need?
And are you gonna be the kind ofmen who can deal with this kind
of wealth in the world?
If you're up to working on thosethings, then I will take you on
as a client.
And inside I'm going, what areyou saying Silverman?
Like, like you need that.
And they both, their eyes bothgot really big and they were
like, we're totally in.

(23:11):
We to, we, we want this.
And I just had dinner with themand their wives, and I had never
met their wives.
And their wives started tellingme at dinner and I may, I may
cry here.
And wife have, you know, we areso thankful that they met you.
You know what you've done forthe pressure that they're under,
what you've done for them asmen, what you've done for them
as husbands, what you've donefor our relationship and your
coaching is amazing, and I'mbawling my eyes out in this

(23:33):
restaurant.
That's why I do what I do.
Mm-hmm.
right?
So I get hired for the successof the leadership for the, for
that, because again, you can'tbe happy in a leadership
position if you don't actuallyknow how to do leadership,
right?
There's very few born leaders.
It's a, it's a learned skill.
You know, that's the good news.
You can learn it.
Right.
But you know, if you can't, ifyou can't find, and I, I

(23:55):
noticed, you know, on your, onyour, your Mastery program, you
know, you have these pillars.
Are you looking at every area ofyour life and making sure that
you're holistically successful?
So that's, that's what I'm, I'mworking with.
Okay.

Michael (24:09):
Yeah, that makes sense.
I'm, I'm curious.
So I, I think part of what, theway I digest what you just
shared is, is we have these sortof outer metrics, or we can
point to the, the businesssuccesses, but the, the really
important stuff is what you gotthe feedback on at dinner,
right?
That's, that's the richness inlife.
When you've got.
let's say a ceo, and then you'vegot some, some younger up and

(24:31):
coming achievers, and you'reworking with each of these
individuals and a team, andyou're trying to grow these
folks into, into better leadersor leaders, period.
Some of what I, I I, if I tookthis the right way, those
conversations you've hadinitially with, Hey, are we
gonna work together for thefirst time?
Or maybe the first time in along time?
You're providing some ugly, butvery honest.

(24:55):
Almost,

Mark Silverman (24:56):
almost

Michael (24:56):
always, right?
Almost always.
You're, you're holding thatmirror up.
And then if we extend that to aleadership team, having some
similar level of, of of honestywith each other, of, of, of the
feedback that we really need doyou run into cultural barriers
to that meaning?
My, you know, kind of my journeythrough the corporate world and,

(25:17):
and the, you know, at largeworld here, right?
We've, we've sort of gottensoft.
We've gotten soft in wanting tobe nice to each other or what we
think is nice to each other, butwe're really doing each other a
disservice by, by just sort offrosting over all that stuff.
And I see some of that show upin, in the working world, right?
Where, where accountabilityisn't really a thing.
Ownership isn't really a thing.

(25:38):
Constructive feedback isn't asmuch of a thing.
Do you see that?
Do you run into it?
How do you overcome that with aleadership team and get them
working more in, in that?

Mark Silverman (25:47):
It's kind of the reason why I have a job and a
waiting list to work with mebecause most people don't want
to have those like it.
That's the hardest thing forpeople to do ev Most people
wanna get along.
You know, there are the bull inthe China closet who will just
say what they think and all thatstuff and kind of ruin things.
But most people wanna be liked.
most people wanna be seen as ateam player.
And by that they mean don'tcriticize, don't, don't.

(26:08):
Mm-hmm.
push back.
So, you know, and, and for me,what I find with leaders is the,
the number one trouble they haveis having that feedback,
accountability loop going.
So you brought me, so a piece ofwork, right?
Because this, this is, this,this is the, the, the classic.
I just did it myself.
I worked till two o'clock in themorning cuz it was easier for me

(26:29):
to do it than teach them to doit.
Most people don't want.
okay, you brought me this pieceof work, or you did something
this way.
What I loved about this wasgreat.
You know, this was great.
What would be better is or thegap to what the piece of work I
need is this.
Do you agree with me?
You know, can we come toagreement that this is the level
of work we need back?
Send them away.

(26:50):
Have them come back and thensay, great, you're closer,
right?
Still, here's the gap.
Like, and have that feedbackaccountability loop going all
the time.
It's so hard.
It takes so much work.
It takes so much psychic energyto do it.
But what happens is you'restarting to create other leaders
in your organization, right?
A month or two months down theline, that person's gonna be so

(27:11):
much more autonomous.
They're gonna think forthemselves, they're gonna
understand what the assignmentis.
So now you're gonna be able toturn your back.
Once you assign that plate,you're gonna be able to turn
your back and know that that'sgood, but it's, if that's the
hardest thing, I think foralmost everybody.
What's,

Michael (27:26):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Just I'm kind of playing thatforward.
So thinking about, you know,maybe one of these CEOs or
business owners that you'veworked with for a number of
years, so, you know, if, if oneleader is building additional
leaders and they're building thenext generation of leaders, have
you gone through sort of a fullcycle with, with one of your
guys to where they've exit.

(27:47):
Right and stepped
away.

Mark Silverman (27:48):
I, I'm getting, I'm that none, none have exited
yet.
But they're, but they're,they're dealing with.
So what do I actually do withthe organization now?
Like, what's my job?
Just had that conversation thismorning.
It's like, so I've got thisperson handling this, this is
going well.
This is going, what's my job?
And so now that now we get to,just, now we get to actually

(28:08):
build something new for them,right?
He's got a foundation, he's got,you know, that he works with and
all that.
He sets visions and strategyand, you know, he wants to take
the co company to a certainlevel.
The people he is got in place,he built the.
Right.
This is what I noticed with mostCEOs.
One of the, one of the bestthings I do for the leadership
team is I put them in theirplace and I'm like, you're not
the c e o.

(28:29):
Right?
They'll, they'll complain, theythink they can run the company
better, all this stuff.
You are not the c e o, you'renot paid to be the CEO e o,
right?
So let's, let's, let's, you knowright size our commitment right
now.
You don't know what the seniorlevel challenge is that person
has to deal with.
The c e O is usually the personwho will take the rocket ship
from zero to.
right?

(28:49):
The leadership, the people onthe leadership team, there's
very few people on theleadership team who will be the
person who takes it from zero to60, let alone from 60 to a
hundred.
Right?
So, so un understanding that isreally, really important.
Now, you can get people, andhopefully if you're a healthy c
e o, you get people to take careof all those other things, but

(29:10):
you are still the, the, youknow, the, the, the spice and
the sauce that is driving thecompany to where it's gonna.
I talked to one c e I coachedhis leadership team.
I didn't coach him, but he, youknow, when, when I was doing
some rounds with, with hispeople, he comes in the
conference room and sits downwith me and he goes, Silverman,
when is it time to leave?

(29:31):
When is it time to just give up?
I said, dude, I am not yourcoach.
You have the best coach on theplanet.
It happened to be a friend ofmine.
I said, no, I'm not your coach,so I can't tell you that but you
know, he says, you know what,what, what my problem is when I
turn my.
Everything slows.
and I said, yeah, part of thatis your perception, you know,

(29:53):
because you know you're such adriver.
Part of that is your perceptionand part of it's true.
And I said, you know, these twoguys on your leadership team
could be c e o.
They're definitely matureenough.
They're ready to be C E o.
I said, the problem for youwould be is they're not gonna
run the company that you would.
Hmm.
You are the rocket fuel in thiscompany.
They'll run a successfulcompany, they'll won, run a

(30:14):
wonderful company, but it'll bedifferent than what you are
doing.
Right.
So that's the hard thing forthose CEOs who wanna leave,
like, can I give my baby tosomebody else and watch them,
turn it into somethingdifferent.
Right.
You know, I put it, I, I put itin a Red Sox uniform and they
wanna put it in a Yankeesuniform.
Not sure I'm good with that.
You know, that kind of thing.

(30:35):
How often do you get fired?
I got violently attacked once.
How often do I get fired?
I have a hundred percent.
Re retention rate.
Renewal rate.
So I got that's pretty good.
I fire people all the time.
Like, I'll, I'll tell people,you know what, you and I have
been together for two years.
I've done as much as I can foryou.

(30:57):
I need you to go join amastermind with people who are
10 times more successful thanyou.
I want you to steep yourself at.
So I fire, I, I, I haven't been,I fire everybody.
I have'em outta the nest.
Yeah.
I, I I've completed with people.
Okay.
Where it's just, you know, we'verun the.
And it's been good.
But yeah, no, I haven't beenfired yet except for that one

(31:18):
person who, who attacked me.
No,

Michael (31:20):
I was just interested.
If somebody had had sort of runyou out the door, wasn't ready,
you know, said yes, wasn'tready, ran you out the door and
then brought you back.

Mark Silverman (31:31):
A couple people, a couple people have ended.
And then come back, yes.
That, that's happened.
But no.
Yeah.
And I haven't, I haven't gottenfired yet.
Maybe I'm not, maybe I'm notconfrontational enough.

Michael (31:39):
Yeah.
Maybe you gotta push the, pushthe envelope a little bit more.

Mark Silverman (31:41):
Goals, man.
We got goals.

Michael (31:43):
Goals.
What else did I wanna ask aboutthat?
What's, I mean, what's your,what's your process like, or
your tools, or how do you, howdo you develop these leaders?

Mark Silverman (31:50):
I didn't know what it was until recently.
You know, if you asked me thatsix months or a year ago, I
would've said, you know, I don'tknow.
It's just, it's just kind of mait's kind of Mark's magic like,
I don't know.
And a friend of mine and I satin my my office and we actually
codified what it is I do.
And that's how I created TheRising Leader Handbook and the
Rising Leader workshop that I'm,I'm building now is I take, I

(32:13):
take time.
So it's, it's separated intoleading.
So, you know, leading your c e oor leading your senior leader,
how do you do that?
Then it's leading across, how doyou, how are you a leader?
You know, I'm sure you've doneall these leadership trainings
where you're a team of alpha menand you gotta pick a leader and
then, but you gotta be afollower, but you're also gotta

(32:34):
lead.
And you know, like, Those kindsof things.
Like how do you lead in a groupof people who also want to lead,
want to be seen, want theiragenda, but also collaborate
while you're competing forattention?
All that stuff.
So that leading in the peergroup, and that's the culture
thing that you were talkingabout.
Yeah.
Is how do you create that?
So the, once you get those twothings right now, how do you
lead your team?

(32:54):
And, and how do you do that?
And then the, the most importantthing is how do you lead
yourself?
Hmm.
So usually the, usually I do itI do it in two ways.
First, I'm usually brought inagain for you know, teach the
person some manners.
So I, I kind of get them in linelike, you're not the c e o,
right?
You like your job, right?
Because if you don't like yourjob, Okay.

(33:15):
You like your job?
Now we're gonna, now we're gonnasmile and we're gonna do what we
signed up to do.
Cuz you make a lot of freakingmoney.
And then, and then we work onthe internal, so the first six
months is always internalleadership.
Hmm.
You're a choice.
You are not a victim ofcircumstance.
Right.
You, you know, you get to speakyour mind.
How do you s how do you speakyour mind?
How do you ask for what youwant?

(33:35):
How do you take care ofyourself?
One of my, one of my guys was a,a former professional.
and now he's an executive in acompany.
He's six foot four, you know,kind of eats, eats, you know,
eats furniture for dinner.
Big, big guy always laughs howI'm not intimidating cuz I'm
five foot seven Except he sayshe listens to me.
That's why, why he signed upagain.
But anyway, so, so he's, I washired cuz he has anger issues.

(33:58):
Hmm.
Like he's scaring everybody onthe team.
He's six four, right.
Athlete, he's in his forties.
And I said, okay, here's theproblem I.
I'm not gonna coach you againuntil, you know, oh, I asked
him, you know, when was the lasttime you were in the gym and his
wife's a marathoner, and when hesays, I haven't been in the gym
probably two years, three years.
Hmm.
I said, great.

(34:19):
You're overweight, you'rebreathing heavy.
You know I am not gonna coachyou again until you've been to
the gym.
Eight.
And I want you to take a pictureof yourself in the gym.
Not because I need theaccountability, but because I
wanna make this fun and I wantyou to take, I wanna, you know,
like, take a picture of yourselfin the gym eight times and we
will coach again.
He goes, you know, so he comesafter eight times, he comes

(34:40):
back.
He says, why did you do that?
He said, because I can't playwhack-a-mole with your emotions
like you're a f.
Five year old A D H D kid whoneeds to be on the playground
before he can sit at the desk.
Right?
So, you know, why would I, whywould I try and do that when you
have all this pent up energy?
So it's four months later, it'stime for renewal.
He looks amazing.
He dropped all this weight, youknow, like just looks great.

(35:03):
I'm on with his c e o and his ce o who says you're gonna do
another six months with him,right?
And he goes, by the way, helooks awesome.
What'd you do to.
Right.
So that, that's, that's the kindof thing that, you know,
sometimes coaching is just that.
It's like, you know, if you'rean athlete and you don't and you
don't play sports, you're introuble.

(35:23):
Yeah.

Michael (35:24):
Great.
Yeah, there's a, there's a lotto that.
What about, and, and this may bean aspect of what you just just
mentioned as well, right?
I was curious about sort of the,the, the dark side or the shadow
side or the downside of, ofquote unquote success.
Do the air quotes thing again,meaning, you know, maybe that c
e o who is in that place of,well, I could step away or

(35:44):
what's next?
Going back to adversity.
Right.
And we sort of thrive as, ashuman animals in, in challenge.
How does that look?
How do you start to create thenext challenge or, or adversity
or what the next thing is thatsomeone is gonna work on rather
than self-destructing?

Mark Silverman (36:01):
Again, the scariest thing on the planet is
not public speaking.
It's the blank page.
It's the blank canvas.
It's that pause, you know,getting someone to sit down and
just slow down.
Enough company's working great.
Everything's doing good.
Can you take time?
And go for walks.
Can you journal?

(36:21):
What are you interested in?
You know, so you know, what areyou pissed off at about the
world?
You know, what pisses you off inthe world, right?
I can't stand the fact thatdolphins are being slaughtered.
Great.
Do you care enough to dosomething about that?
No.
Great.
Let's look at something else.
Like, you know, do you wannastart another, some people don't
wanna do that, they just wannastart another business.

(36:41):
Some people wanna travel, somepeople wanna do all kinds of
stuff.
And then that incremental thingis, is the hard thing, right?
Because we're men, right?
We're either all in or I quit.
right, right.
I love her and I'm devoted, or Ihave to get divorced.
You know?
So for me, like can you have aconversation before you walk out
the door?
Can you have a conversation withher about some of the things

(37:02):
that you don't like in yourrelationship?
And maybe you can work thosethings out that's so much harder
than being a doormat or walkingout the door, right?
Same thing with the company.
Okay?
The companies can you work twodays a week and actually, Find
some hobbies or you know,anything.
And that's the hardest thing is,is like, no, I'm needed.

(37:23):
We've just established you'renot needed at all.
So can you spend two days?
Can you spend two days a week?
And that's, it's really hard cuzthere's so much, there's so much
identity with, with it and egoand and fear.
You know, if we can teachleadership skills again all day
long, but if we don't work onthese underlying things, I was
just speaking in front of agroup of CEOs yesterday and I,

(37:46):
and I was talking aboutchildhood traumas and when I
walked in to speak, someone elsewas talking about us.
So it was a great segue aboutchildhood traumas.
I said, so you guys all thinkthat you are in relationship
with each.
So when someone's yelling at youor something's happened and you
think that that's what's goingon, they're yelling at something
from childhood.
You're not even in the room.
Right?
Right.
Those things, those shadows arewith us in every relationship.

(38:08):
Everything that we do,everything that we go, we're not
in a relationship with theworld.
We're in a relationship withwhat we think about the world,
the people we are in and allthat stuff.
So, If, if you're, if you'reteaching leadership, we, if you
don't get people to drop downand learn who they are, what
their fears are, what the, youknow, what drives them, it's,
it's again, just playingwhack-a-mole with behaviors.

Michael (38:30):
Yeah, it really is.
Fear's, fear's a great one.
I know it, it certainly is.
It's a hardwired survivalmechanism, right?
It's, it's the reason that we'rehere and it, and it can be, and
it certainly is a fuel for, formost of us you know, those
things from our childhood.
I'm never gonna live in the, inthe car again, or my house got
repossessed or whatever it was,right?
It, it drives us to, to thissuccess or what we define as

(38:51):
success and sometimes to thepoint of.
Overachieving.
Right.
But then how many, yeah,

Mark Silverman (38:57):
how many overachievers do you know, like
real successful overachieversthat you don't see the
underlying pain that that drovethem to that level of success?

Michael (39:07):
A hundred percent.
It's there probably easier forsomebody to see it from the
outside than for them to see itthemselves a lot of times.
Right.
Totally Right.
And then maybe that, that pivotfrom what's driven us using that
fear, what's driven us in somegood and in some unhealthy ways,
and pivoting to more couragebased decisions.
That's, that's scary

Mark Silverman (39:27):
in itself.
Sure.
Here's the little, here's thelittle secret though.
All those things that youlearned are not bad.
Right.
The thing that almost destroyedme was I'm, I'm an empath.
You know, I ha I have a d h d Iha, you know, all these things
that I, we, you know, we didn'tknow.
That kind of drove me into theground.
Once I got healthy, those thingsbecome my superpowers.

(39:48):
Right?
Right.
So, a Dr.
A healthy driver.
Becomes an inspirational leader,an unhealthy driver is something
different.
Right?
So, so those, those, thosetalents and gifts that you got
don't go away.
They're no, now they're cleaner,they're healthier, and they're
more effective.

Michael (40:05):
A hundred percent.
Let me ask about the other endof the spectrum.
From, from sort of, I don't haveenough to do and now I've gotta
figure out what the nextchallenge is or, or what the
next chapter is.
What about overwhelm?
I know that's something you talkabout a lot.
How does that show up in leadersand how do you start to to, to
address it or treat it?

Mark Silverman (40:23):
So basically, you know, I asked the question,
where do you think overwhelmlives?
Like, where do you see, wheredoes overwhelm live for you?

Michael (40:30):
I, I see it in myself and, and, and others.
You mentioned addictionsearlier.
Work itself can be an addiction,right?
And.
Busyness, as as business sooverwhelmed, meaning just too
much dedication to sort of onedomain, one vertical, and a, a
complete lack of focus in otherareas.
That's, that's how everyoneshows

Mark Silverman (40:49):
up.
So it sounds to me like you getoverwhelmed when you feel like
you're neglecting parts of yourlife.
Yeah,

Michael (40:56):
that's a good question.
I, I, I don't I I tend torecognize that I think in terms
of being out of balance in,whether that's from a time
perspective or whether it's justbeing present when I do have the
time I, I'm not one who is verygood at, at thinking yes, I
shouldn't use the word thinking,feeling you asked me about
feelings, right?
The feeling part of it.
That's a challenge for meperson.

Mark Silverman (41:17):
Sure.
So like this whole midlife, thiswhole yeah.
You know, mastery, right.
For you did that come from thefact that you realized that you
weren.
Mastering all these differentparts of your life.
So you decided to build thisAbsolutely.
Teach what you need to learn.
Absolutely.
My, my book only tends confrontyour to-do list, transform your
life.
Came from the fact that I have ad h D and I can't pay attention
to anything and I'm my, and I'mrunning my own company, right?

(41:39):
So how do I actually get thingsdone?
So I, you know I taught, I I wasteaching what I needed to learn.
Right, right, right, right.
So for me, overwhelm is whathappens between my.
So again, your to-do list is notwhat overwhelms you, it's what
you think about your to-do listthat overwhelms you.
It's the lies that you tellpeople.

(42:01):
All day, every day.
And the lies that you tellyourself when you look at your
to-do list, what's on your to-dolist that doesn't belong there?
What's on your to-do list?
That you didn't set a boundary?
What's on your to-do list thatyou didn't delegate?
What's on your to-do list thatyou didn't just, you just don't
want to do, but you think youshould do it?
So it's on your to-do list fromyesterday, the day before.
The day before.
You're never gonna get to it andyou're just lying.

(42:22):
So I can, I can, I can getsomeone.
Eight hours in their weeks, in15 minutes by looking at their
to-do list.
Mm-hmm.
just by confronting the bullshiton their to-do list.
Right.
And then the self-esteem thatgoes with those things you know,
on, on the to-do list.
So for me it's the difficultconversations that you need to
have.
Which are, you know, settingboundaries, asking for help,

(42:43):
getting clarification, sayingno, a complete sentence.
You know creating really strongagreements with people and then
having a feedback loop.
You know, all thoseconversations are the things
that are gonna get you out ofoverwhelm and it's something
that you need to practice everyday.
Cause I'm, my guess is, Who'slistening here?
I can't keep anybody out ofoverwhelm.
You know I'm Zen Master Flashand I get overwhelmed.

(43:05):
I can get people out ofoverwhelm cuz you know, they're
gonna, they're gonna wake up andtheir kids are gonna spill the
cereal.
They're gonna be late for workand their email's gonna be full.
You're gonna be overwhelmed.
Now, how do you breathe?
How do you ground yourself?
How do you stop scaring yourselfabout the fact that you're gonna
be late for work?
And what does that mean and allthat stuff.
And, you know, deal with all thebullshit in your mind that
you're making up that's scaringyou.

(43:26):
And then how do you get centeredinto reality?
And by the way, for thisoverwhelming thing what I'll do
is I'm, I'm setting up a pagefor your people.
Thank you.
And they can download a freecopy of my book, only 10.
On the, on the page.
Ah, it's very

Michael (43:38):
kind.
Appreciate that,

Mark Silverman (43:39):
mark.
Thank you.
Mark silverman.com/um, the nameof your podcast, Yeah.

Michael (43:46):
Or we'll just do slash mastery maybe something like
that, unless that's alreadytaken.
Yeah, thank you.
Work on that offline and

Mark Silverman (43:53):
No, I know you're the Men of Mastery
podcast.
I keep thinking cuz my, mypodcast was mastering midlife
Right.
I keep like going, I keep tryingto send people to my old
podcast.
When I think of the name of yourpodcast, that's gonna be Men of
Mastery.
Okay.

Michael (44:06):
All right.
I appreciate that.
We'll get links up to it withthe show notes for this one.
Yeah, no, you're, you'recompletely right.
Like I just, what was going onin my head as you were
describing that I can, I cancertainly relate to, I, I'm in,
I'm in the middle and have beenin the middle of redoing this,
this home office, home studiofor quite a while.
Right.
And so something will happen aswe go into the weekend here.
My, my son, we were talkingabout offline.

(44:26):
We'll, Lots of busy stuff wegotta run around to and get to
run around to.
And my wife will come up withsocial stuff.
I'm, I'm certainly the, theintrovert and in my mind what's
going on will be like, oh, youknow, I, we gotta finish taping
the edges so we can, so we canpaint.
And then we got the furniturecoming and then this, and then
that.
Right?
And, and that's all gettingdelayed by all this other.

(44:49):
But the reality is nobody elseis having that conversation.
Nobody else is feeling that way.
It's only going on between myears.
And, you know, what's one moreday or one more hour when I've
been sitting on this for twomonths,

Mark Silverman (44:59):
right?
And, and we put it on the backburner.
The last thing I do in mymastering overwhelm workshop is
I, I send everybody out for abreak, change the energy, I
bring them back and I say, okay,great.
What's not on the list?
That should be on the list.
What, what have you been wantingto do?
Putting off, doing?
You know, and it's almostalways, I haven't spent enough
time in my marriage or I haven'tbeen with my kids, or I really

(45:20):
wanna work out or something likethat.
And then they say, okay, so Iget make them commit to what
they're gonna do and they'llsay, I'm gonna work out more.
And I'm like, you can't work outmore.
What do you mean you can't workout more?
You can only plan to go to thegym.
When are you gonna go to the gymnext?
Or are you gonna call a trainer?
Those are the things you can do.
You can't work out more.
I'm gonna spend more time withyour wife.

(45:41):
My wife.
No, you can't spend more timewith your wife.
When are you going to set datenight?
Hmm.
Right.
And we do, and we do thatbeforehand because we, you know,
we forget again, there's a, thetime between 50 and 60.
You know, is so much fast, somuch faster than I would've ever
thought possible.
I, I keep this thing 4,000 weekson my wall where you check off a

(46:04):
week in your life every, everyday, every week.
And I'm watching that because,you know, I got, I got what
good, a good 10 years to createwhat I want to create.
And that's all of us.
It's now, life is now.
So go have your date with your,with your significant other
create, you know, you get your,if you want your office, get
your office.

Michael (46:22):
Yeah.
And it's, those are sort of thepeak earning years, right?
We're, we're starting to realizethe fruition of the things we've
built and yeah, it just becomesmore and more of, of, of all the
same challenges in a, in a, sortof, in a pressure cooker.
Well, so thank you formentioning the, the link and
we'll, we'll get that out.
You mentioned the workshop, sojust before we run out of time,
take, take me through more ofhow you engage with people.

(46:43):
The, the workshop, your new bookcoming out for anybody that's
really resonates with, you know,how they might consider working
with.

Mark Silverman (46:50):
Great.
So, so the workshop at themastering overwhelm workshop is
something I do for leadershipteams.
Okay.
And, and CEO round tables andthings like that is where I just
take people in a morning or anafternoon through their world,
their inner and outer world, andhelp them get out of overwhelm
and, and deal with the things intheir lives.
The Rising Leader Workshop isbeing built now.
So we're on, we're on module twoof 12.

(47:11):
It's gonna be a a 12 module.
Training, you know, again,leading up, leading across
leading your team and thenleading yourself.
And we're going to be practicaland, and really, you know
specific tasks in order by theend of that 12 weeks for you to
be a, a, a rockstar corporatecitizen who is, you know, kind
of making their own way in theorganization.

(47:33):
So that's, that.
That'll be coming probably inabout a month and a half.
Okay.
So we'll do

Michael (47:37):
that.
That's, that's a 12 week or 12.

Mark Silverman (47:39):
It's a 12 module course and we're now just trying
to decide do we do it 12 weeksin a row?
Cause I've talked to my clientsabout it and they're like, mark,
it's taken me three years toassimilate everything that
you've taught me.
right?
How can I do it in 12 weeks?
So we're trying to decide, but,but most people won't learn.
So I think what we're gonna dois do a 12 week course and then
put them into a pool of peopleso that there's a, a community

(48:02):
and, and go that way.
So I'm still formulating that.
Should have a, should have aproduct ready to go when I'm on
a great podcast like this.
But, you know, we're buildingit.
So go to mark j silverman.comand you'll, you can watch that
and, and see, and see when thatshows up.

Michael (48:14):
Okay.
Yeah, I appreciate that.
It's, it's crazy how we have somany.
Tools that we tend to apply inthe business world.
You know, like this overwhelmconcept of, you know, if it
were, if it were a businessoverwhelm, we'd probably just
sit down and we'd, we'd come upwith some kind of a waiting and
we'd prioritize and urgency andimportance and all that kind of
stuff.
And then we, and we'd figure itout, right?
And we'd, we'd rank it and we'dattack it.

(48:35):
But we don't do that ourselvesin our personal life so much.

Mark Silverman (48:38):
No, no, especially as men, we're not,
we're not, we're not taughtthat.
Also on, you know, on the page,it's, it's interesting, most,
my, most of my clients have a dd too, even if it's undiagnosed
and they won't read my book.
They're like, mark, can you makea little five minute video of
that concept?
So on that page where my, whereyou can download my book for
your, for your listeners,there's all those videos that I
make for my clients are on theirand with worksheets for them.

(48:58):
So they can, they can actuallydo the Mastering Overwhelmed
workshop all by themselves infront of their.

Michael (49:04):
Nice.
Okay, fantastic.
That's, that sounds reallybeneficial.
I was just, just one, one lastquestion that sort of popped up
for me.
You mentioned asking for helpearlier, and, and that's
something I can relate to as, asone of the hardest things for
myself, for, for men.
I think a lot of men do you, doyou see that or what, what's
what's kind of the hardest thingthat you see men on this journey
being able to do or.

Mark Silverman (49:26):
Asking for help is almost impossible.
Almo, almost impossible.
I, I, I was talking to oneexecutive who has d dyslexia put
himself through law school.
Was a, you know, as an executivein a multinational corporation
and was in tears a lot of nightsin the middle of the night.
And he, he, he confided in me.
He goes, he, he says, you know,mark, you've known me all this

(49:48):
time cuz he is an executive thatI knew.
He says, but this is, it takesme three times as much work to
do what everybody else does not.
I was shocked cuz like, I'mlike, this guy's a freaking
stud, right?
I said, wow, have you sharedthat with your wife?
And I know his wife, his wife'samazing.
He says, no, I don't wannaburden her.
Like, really?
She doesn't know that you'rehaving panic attacks in the

(50:10):
middle of the night because ofhow hard this is for you.
He says, I would never burdenher with that.
I said, okay with, as with everyconversation, you can say yes,
no, or renegotiate, but I wouldlove for you to go have a
conversation with your wife andlet her know about this stress
because I want you to have ateammate.
I happen to know your wife and Iknow that she can handle this

(50:31):
and it's not a burden to her.
And he went and talked to herand she was.
I got you babe.
You know, like, like I love you,right?
That's the hardest thing for mento do, right?
And it's hard cuz sometimes,sometimes, you know, their wives
aren't safe, right?
If they show vulnerability,their wives get scared.
It's not that they're bad, youknow, wives, they'll, they'll
get scared.

(50:51):
So it's, it's, it, it, it'shard.
But, you know, really kind ofbringing your partner on board
to what you're trying to createcreates intimacy.
Creates closeness and createsyou not giving away half your
money when you're 15 or 60 yearsold, because then you're with
the person that you alwaysloved.
Yeah,

Michael (51:07):
I like that story.
It's, it's, it's reallypowerful.
Share a quick one with you in,in case the, something like this
is, is useful or you wanna steerone of your clients this
direction.
So some of the way that, thatI've explor.
Learning and, and I think I saidearlier, off air, a lot of times
we learn the hard way.
So one of those hard ways tolearn, one of those ways to
really show up in this, thismetaphor for adversity is, is

(51:29):
physically right.
So I've gone and done a fewphysical.
Team-based crucibles where, youknow, you're, you're put through
stuff that is extremelystressful, physically, mentally,
emotionally, and you gottafigure it out as an individual
and you gotta figure it out as ateam.
And there are times when you maystep up or be called on to lead
or to follow.

(51:50):
And there are certainly timesthat you're gonna have your
strengths show up as an asset tothe team.
And there are times that you.
You're gonna be weak.
You're gonna need help, andyou're gonna have to ask for
help, and you're gonna have toget over being a burden on the
team, right?
Because that's just how it, howit goes and how it works.
And so that's a, it's a reallyinteresting sort of metaphor for
life to go, to go do somethinglike that.
Mm-hmm.
And then take those lessons backto, to the personal life and,

(52:12):
and the business life.
So I don't know if, if you'vesteered people that kind of
direction, but if it ever showsup for one of your clients or
you think it's, it's an ideathey would like, I'd love to put
you in touch with some.

Mark Silverman (52:21):
100, 100% it, again, it, it takes, it takes
exp, you know, experientialstuff like that.
You don't, you're not gonna,unless you're in the cor
crucible, you're not gonna knowwhat on your nervous system,
what that feels like.
Unless you're carried across thefinish line, you're not gonna
know what it's like, right.
To allow your team to take, takecare of things.
So you're a hundred percentright.

Michael (52:38):
Great.
Fantastic.
Well, mark, I, I reallyappreciate you taking time
today.
I I didn't go through your wholeresume and, and we'll get it up
with the show notes for thisepisode, but I know you have
worked with some incrediblecompanies.
You've worked with someincredible leaders and, and.
Corporations to the point where,you know, the dollar figure in
terms of measuring the successthat you've helped in part is,

(52:59):
is amazing.
So, you know, I, I appreciateyou coming to, to tell your
story and so modestly tell youknow, your story as a, as a
coach, but I appreciate the workyou're doing out there in the
world.
It's something that so manyleaders and so many men need
and, and I'm honored to, toshare a bit of it here with the
audience.

Mark Silverman (53:16):
Thank you, thank you for the work you're doing.
It's, I, I, again your, yourlibrary is incredible.
So I look forward, I lookforward to actually listening to
a bunch of mo the otherepisodes.

Michael (53:25):
Oh, thank you, mark.
I, I appreciate that.
That means a lot coming fromyou.
So Mark j silverman.com.
I'll work with you to get somelinks up and we'll get get some
tools and folks hands and thenget people in touch with you if,
if they'd like to on yourupcoming leader.
Leading up.
Leading across, leading within.
I love that.
And we'll go from there.
Again, I appreciate your time.
Thank you, mark.

Mark Silverman (53:44):
Great to meet you.
Take care.