Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Danny (00:00):
Have you ever watched
someone put together IKEA
furniture without theinstructions?
They're holding that littleallen wrench like a pro Wood
panels are everywhere and youknow by watching they're about
to install the back panel upsidedown.
And now you're faced with adecision.
Do you say something?
Do you step in and save themthe frustration, or do you sit
back and let them learn the hardway?
That moment right there, theone where you're deciding
(00:22):
whether to rescue or let it ride, that moment reveals a lot
about your leadership style.
Are you someone who corrects inreal time to prevent a mistake
or someone who gives space,knowing people sometimes learn
best when they screw it upthemselves, because whether
you're a manager, a parent, ateacher or just a decent human
trying to help, how you handlethose moments speaks volumes.
(00:44):
Welcome to Mental Health Potluck, where everyone brings
something to the table.
I'm Danny Clark, licensedclinical social worker and
family therapist, and thispodcast is all about serving up
bite-sized mental healthinsights, practical wellness
tips and real conversations thatnourish the mind and soul.
Today we're talking aboutleadership styles, how they're
shaped by our childhoodexperiences, why some leaders
(01:05):
focus on control and efficiencyand why others create
environments where people grow,even if it takes a little longer
.
So let's dig into theseleadership styles, the
psychology behind them, and whatkind of leader actually creates
more capable, confident people.
Okay, so let's break this downinto two categories One is the
fixer and the other is thefacilitator.
(01:27):
Fixers are the doers, the oneswho step in at the first sign of
trouble.
They're sharp, they'reproactive and they usually have
good intentions.
They say things like let mejust do it or hang on, you're
about to mess that up.
They're focused on getting itright and getting it done fast.
But here's the downside Infixing the problem, they often
take away the opportunity tolearn.
(01:47):
They unintentionally take thelearning experience away from
the person they're trying tohelp.
People under fixtures might feelmicromanaged, anxious or unsure
of their own abilities, andover time, that kind of
leadership chips away atconfidence and initiative.
So here's the part that getssort of confusing.
Fixtures aren't controlling,because they don't trust others.
They're usually trying toprotect someone from
(02:09):
embarrassment, from failure orfrom the fallout, but underneath
it all, they're oftenprotecting themselves too,
because if someone else ismessing up, it feels like their
responsibility.
Then we have facilitators.
Facilitators lead from adifferent place.
They see a mistake forming andthey wait, not because they
(02:31):
don't care, but because they do.
They care enough to let themistake happen so that the
person can grow from it.
Facilitators ask thoughtfulquestions, they promote
reflection, they make space fordiscomfort, because that's where
the real learning happens.
And while it might take longer,people led by facilitators
often walk away with moreconfidence, more problem-solving
(02:52):
skills and a deeper sense ofautonomy.
So the question is how does onedevelop into a fixer or a
facilitator?
Well, since this is a podcastabout mental health, I'm going
to tell you Most leadershipstyles don't just drop out of
the sky.
They come from somewhere,usually from our childhood or
past experiences.
As a therapist, I've spentyears watching how early
(03:14):
environments shape adultbehaviors, and leadership is no
exception.
And no, I'm not blaming yourparents.
This isn't about pointingfingers.
Even great parents caninfluence how we lead.
Today, for example, parents whodeeply love their kids, who are
supportive, nurturing andpresent, can still end up
raising kids who struggle withindependence or anxiety.
Why?
Well, because those parentstend to jump in too quickly.
(03:37):
They make the call to theteacher rather than helping the
child advocate on their own.
They rush the forgotten lunchto school rather than let the
child figure out how to feedthemselves.
They smooth out the path beforeit even gets bumpy.
And they rescue again and again.
And each rescue, whilewell-intentioned, delivers an
unspoken message that the childcan't handle things on their own
(03:58):
.
That child who is alwaysrescued, who's taught that
mistakes are dangerous andsomeone will always step in to
fix them.
They grow up and you know whatkind of leader they often become
.
They become the fixer, themicromanager, the one who jumps
in and takes over the momentthey see a mistake coming, not
because they don't care, butbecause that's what care looked
like to them.
They equate leadership withcontrol, with keeping things
(04:20):
safe and with avoiding mistakes.
But the kid who was given spaceto try, who was allowed to
struggle even when it wasuncomfortable, who learned that
a mistake wasn't the end of theworld, that kid grew up a little
bit differently.
They became the coach, not thecontroller.
They led with curiosity insteadof fear, and they trust people
to figure things out, even if ittakes a few tries, because to
(04:42):
them a mistake isn't a crisis,it's part of a process.
But that's not the only waysomeone might lean towards a
fixer leadership style.
Some fixers had the oppositeupbringing.
Some kids didn't grow upoversupported.
They grew up undersupported.
Maybe they had to take care ofthemselves.
(05:02):
Maybe the only time someonepaid attention to them was when
they made a mistake.
That kind of environmentteaches survival, not curiosity.
Those kids becomehyper-responsible.
They anticipate problems.
They learn that if you don'thandle everything yourself, no
one will.
And they carry that intoadulthood.
As adults they become theperson who anticipates every
problem, the one who steps inbefore anyone else ever realizes
(05:24):
there is a problem.
And they are always scanning,always preparing and always
responsible for everyone.
Not because they want control,but because no one else ever
helped them and failure didn'tfeel like a lesson, it felt like
rejection.
So, yeah, fixers can come frombeing over-supported, but they
can also come from beingunder-supported and only noticed
when they were in trouble.
(05:45):
And that shapes how you lead,because being the fixer becomes
your identity.
Our leadership style is often areflection of how we were led
when we were small.
The way adults handled ourfailures became the blueprint we
use with others.
And if no one ever let us putthe IKEA furniture together
wrong, we may never learn how totrust someone else with the
(06:08):
instructions.
But even if your childhood wasgreat and your parents balanced
safety with risk-taking, leadingyou to a fully functioning,
well-adjusted adulthood.
You can still develop into afixer leadership style through
your own work history too.
If you worked in environmentswhere you were always the one
relied on for correctingmistakes or dealing with a
crisis, you probably startedassociating your value with your
(06:29):
usefulness your ability tosolve, prevent and clean up
problems.
Over time, this can train youinto a fixer leadership style,
Not necessarily because that'syour nature, but because it's
what you've been conditioned todo.
People look to you for answers,not reflection, for speed, not
process, so you start leadingthat way, even if it burns you
out or stifles others.
This conditioning can also havethree negative effects.
(06:52):
One is that it can reinforcecontrol.
You start thinking if I don'tstep in, things fall apart.
It can also limit your abilityto delegate.
You might feel guilty oranxious about letting others
figure things out, and it blursself-worth with performance.
You might even feel like a goodleader is when you're rescuing
or fixing a problem.
(07:13):
On the other hand, if you werethe person who wasn't always
asked to fix things, maybe youwere encouraged to explore, to
mess up and try again.
You likely develop more comfortwith letting things go.
You know firsthand that peoplecan surprise you, even if you
give them room.
You become the facilitator, notout of passivity but from a
deep internal trust in others'growth.
So how we were treated as kidscan play a huge role in the kind
(07:41):
of leaders we become.
But it's not just childhood.
Some of this runs deeper.
These patterns also tie intothe way we see the world, how we
relate to control, toresponsibility and the people
around us.
So let's zoom out a bit.
There are some solidpsychological theories that help
explain why we lean fixer orfacilitator.
The first theory is Theory Xand Theory Y by Douglas
(08:03):
MacGregor.
This one comes from workplacepsychology, where it applies
everywhere, from boardrooms tobackyards.
Theory X leaders believe peopleneed to be controlled,
corrected and told what to do.
They assume people don't likeresponsibility and will mess up
if you don't guide them.
So they step in and they managetightly.
Theory Y leaders believe peoplewant to grow, that they're
(08:25):
capable, curious and internallymotivated.
So they give space, theysupport but they don't smother.
So if you're a fixer you mightlean more towards Theory X,
while if you're a facilitator,you're probably more like a
Theory Y leader theory X whileif you're a facilitator you're
probably more like a theory Yleader.
A second theory is the locus ofcontrol theory by Julian Rotter
(08:50):
from 1950s.
Locus of control is apsychological concept that
describes how people explain theoutcomes of events in their
lives, essentially where peoplebelieve that control lives.
There are two ends to thisspectrum.
Internal locus of control iswhen people believe they are in
charge of their outcomes.
Success or failure is dependenton their own efforts, choices
and actions.
An external locus of control iswhen people believe outcomes
(09:11):
are influenced by the thingsoutside of them luck, fate,
other people or uncontrollablecircumstances.
So for fixers, they oftenoperate with an external locus
of control.
I know it sounds odd becauseyou're thinking well, a fixer
wants to control everything, sothey would have this desire for
more control.
But just stay with me.
Fixers tend to believe thatother people's outcomes depend
(09:33):
on them stepping in.
They might think if I don'thelp, then they'll fail.
This comes from a place ofThank you.
Fixers may have an internallocus of control for themselves.
They take ownership andresponsibility for everything,
(09:54):
but they view others as havingan external locus of control
dependent on their owninterventions.
Facilitators, on the other hand, operate with the belief that
people learn and grow best whenthey're given control of their
own choices.
They trust you might make amistake, but that's how you
learn.
Facilitators promote autonomyand competence.
They believe in people'sability to shape their own
(10:15):
outcomes, even if that meansthings get a little messy at
first.
A third theory is what's calledthe self-determination theory by
Desi and Ryan.
This one's all about whathumans need to thrive.
According to self-determinationtheory, people need three
things.
They need autonomy, which isthe ability to make their own
(10:35):
choices.
They need competence thefeeling like they can do hard
things.
And they need relatednessfeeling connected and supported.
When leaders are always fixingor taking over, they actually
rob people of autonomy andcompetence, even if they're
doing it with all goodintentions.
Facilitators, though.
They give people those things.
They might step in after themistake, but not before it, and
(10:58):
that helps people buildconfidence that lasts.
And finally, there's theexperiential learning theory.
It's grounded in the idea thatwe learn best not just from
being told, but by doing messingup and reflecting.
For example, medical trainingoften includes the concept of
watch one do one, teach one.
(11:18):
This provides an opportunity toexperientially learn all facets
of the learning process todevelop a skill.
It's like touching a hot stove.
Once you've done it.
You don't need a reminder.
Facilitators know this.
They see the value in thestumble.
Fixers, on the other hand, theytry to keep people from touching
the stove at all.
But here's the twist If younever touch the stove, you never
(11:39):
learn to be careful on your own.
So if you're the leader whoalways takes the reins, who
finishes people's sentences, whoredoes work to make it right,
you're teaching your team tostop trying.
They'll wait for you to fix it,they'll play it safe and
eventually they'll stop bringingideas to the table.
But if you lead like afacilitator, you build a team
(12:01):
that thinks for itself anddevelop skills to problem solve.
They learn from failures andactually grow in skill and
confidence.
And isn't this the point ofleadership To lead for growth,
not just for survival, Becauseone creates confidence and the
other creates dependence.
But what's great is you get tochoose which kind of leader you
want to be.
So, yeah, these leadershipstyles aren't just about
personality.
They're shared by our past,reinforced by our environments
(12:24):
and backed by psychology.
And if you found yourselffalling into a fixer role, it
doesn't mean that you're doingit wrong.
It just means you care deeply.
But maybe it's time to caredifferently Now, if you've just
listened to this and spiraledinto a deep concern that you're
(12:44):
leading your team wrong, restassured, you're probably not.
But that doesn't mean you can'tdo some self-reflecting to see
if there are areas to change.
And if you come away from allthis thinking that you are the
most facilitating leader withnothing to improve on, well,
you're wrong.
You can still benefit from somepersonal reflection.
So here's how you can do thisThink about your own story.
Who stepped in when youstruggled, who didn't, and how
(13:06):
did that shape the way you leadtoday?
If you're a fixer, it'sprobably because you care a lot,
and if you're a facilitator,you care a lot too, but you just
think about it differently.
So here's the challenge thisweek Let them mess up the Ikea
shelf, let them forget theirlunch, let them run that meeting
, even if you know how to do itbetter.
Then be there, not to fix it,but to support them and help
(13:27):
them reflect on how they've doneand what they could have done
differently, because leadershipisn't about being the smartest
person in the room.
It's about knowing when tospeak up and when to stay quiet.
So, whether you're raising kids, managing a team or just
navigating relationships,practice leading with a little
less control and a little morefaith, you never know who's
ready to surprise you.
Well, that's it for thisepisode of Mental Health Potluck
(13:51):
.
I really hope this propels youforward as a leader.
If you know someone who couldbenefit from this information,
please pass it along.
Thanks for listening.
I'm Danny Clark and always becurious, always keep learning
and never stop asking questions.
Thank you.