July 14, 2025 • 25 mins
A debilitating fear that often goes unacknowledged – but what if that fear has four legs and follows you everywhere you go?
Stefani Cohen, a licensed clinical social worker with extensive experience helping children and families, joins us to shed light on an overlooked phobia that restricts countless lives. Unlike fears of heights or spiders that only occasionally interfere with daily activities, cynophobia (fear of dogs) creates constant limitations in a world where our canine companions are everywhere – from neighborhoods and parks to friends' homes and outdoor cafes.
Through fascinating insights and practical wisdom, Stefani reveals how well-intentioned actions often backfire. When parents help children avoid dogs or hosts put their pets away during visits, they inadvertently reinforce the message that dogs are dangerous, creating a cycle where fears intensify rather than fade. "By putting the dog away, that inadvertently reinforces the fear... the translation is: wow, that dog must be dangerous," Stephanie explains.
The conversation takes us through her unique methodology combining exposure therapy with education about dog communication. We learn why meeting dogs outside on leash reduces anxiety, how to recognize the warning signs that precede 99% of dog bites, and why standing still like a tree rather than running is essential safety knowledge. For those facing immediate threats, Stefani shares the life-saving advice to "crouch down like a rock and cover your head."
What makes this approach truly transformative goes beyond dog interactions. When children overcome significant fears, they develop confidence that transfers to other life challenges. "I want you to remember – if you can do this, you can do anything," Stefani tells her clients. Her success stories – from the seven-year-old who progressed from crying in her car to confidently petting a therapy dog, to the six-year-old who went from hiding behind furniture to showing a dog her dance moves – demonstrate the profound impact of facing fears with proper support.
Whether you're personally affected by dog phobia or supporting someone who is, this eye-opening conversation offers hope, practical strategies, and a path forward. Connect with Stefani through her books "Overcoming Your Child's Fear of Dogs" and "How to Face My Fear of Dogs," or reach out directly for consultation that could change your relationship with the canine world forever.
Stefani's groundbreaking work was inspired by her own daughter’s struggles with dog phobia—an often overlooked yet highly disruptive fear. What began as a personal mission has grown into a national resource, complete with two empowering books: Overcoming Your Child’s Fear of Dogs and How To Face My Fear of Dogs (a companion activity guide for kids). You can find Stefani at https://overcomefearofdogs.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome back to another episode of Advancing
with Amy, mental Health Warriorand NeuroSpicyMama.
Today, I sit down withStephanie Kohit, a licensed
clinical social worker whoseunique expertise lies in helping
children and families navigatedevelopmental challenges.
Plus, she's developed agroundbreaking approach to
(00:23):
overcoming the often overlookedfear of dogs, from real-life
success stories to practicaltips you can use right now.
Stephanie shares how phobiaslike this can shape family life,
why they tend to fly under theradar, and the compassionate,
step-by-step methods that trulyempower kids and their parents
(00:46):
to conquer anxiety.
If you or someone you lovestruggles with fears that hold
them back, especially when itcomes to our four-legged friends
, this episode will offer hope,guidance and maybe even a few
smiles along the way.
Let's dive in.
Today we're talking withStephanie Cohen, and Stephanie,
(01:10):
can you tell me a little bitabout what you do and how you
got started in it?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Sure, so I'm a licensed clinical social worker
and my main practice is workingwith families and children.
Many of them are neurodivergentkids with some developmental
delays, young children for themost part.
And then I have this littleside niche it's actually more
(01:36):
than a niche now, which I'mhappy about of helping people
who are afraid of dogs face thatfear helping people who are
afraid of dogs.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Face that fear.
That's great.
My daughter's afraid of dogs,so I think it's so impressive
that you've got a whole businesscreated out of this so that
people can get help and move onwith their lives, because it can
be totally restricting.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yes, that's what happened actually when my
daughter was five, which wasmany, many years ago, and
actually when my daughter wasfive, which was many, many years
ago, she one day just announcedI'm afraid of dogs and I'm not
going to Jennifer's house for aplay date because they have a
dog and I didn't know how tohelp her.
And intuitively, my sister andI, with my sister's dog, we did
(02:25):
exposure therapy and then, overthe years, years, have kind of
refined the protocol and, as youknow, I've written two books
and I get calls from all overthe country.
It's really, it's a phobia thatflies under the radar in many
ways, so but it's an importantone.
I always say that you know, ifyou're afraid of spiders or
heights or even flying, you canpretty much live your life, but
(02:49):
not if you're afraid of dogs.
It really impacts you.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah, you are so right, and I was reading through
your children's book and Inoticed a lot of these things
could apply to just anybody withanxiety, but these are specific
to people that have fear ofdogs.
Right, how do people with thisfear go under the radar?
How does that happen?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Well, I think it's actually, I think, more
prevalent than people realize.
Adults have kind of learned tofake it and they can sort of
hide their fear a little bit Notalways, and a lot of adults
have told me that they feelashamed by their fear.
But when I say it goes underthe radar, it's like, unless you
(03:37):
have to, you're going somewherewhere there's a dog.
You might not ever know thatyou know someone you love is
afraid of dogs.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Right.
The problem is you can't goanywhere safely if you don't
know whether they have a dog ornot.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Well, that's true, there's a big avoidance.
And what's interesting is, youknow, a lot of times, if a kid's
going on a play date orsomething, people will put their
dog in another room or in acrate or something.
Not everybody.
There are some people who won'tdo that, which is okay too, but
(04:14):
by putting the dog awayquote-unquote that inadvertently
reinforces the fear.
Oh my gosh, I would have neverthought that.
I mean yeah.
So the translation is wow, thatdog must be dangerous if
they're putting it away.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Oh, I see now, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
And then another important piece is a lot of
parents think their kids willoutgrow it, but also they help
their kids avoid uncomfortablesituations because it's hard for
them to tolerate their childbeing in distress, which I
understand.
(04:53):
But that also reinforces thefear and it tends to get worse
without some help.
What a vicious circle yes.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
So what do you recommend?
Is it something they canactually fix on their own with
the help of your book, or dothey actually need professional
care?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Well, I think what they really need is they need a
suitable dog and a handler,because this really only works.
From my experience withexposure therapy to a real dog
my experience with exposuretherapy to a real dog.
So and that seems to be thehardest part of this, even for
me, I have a handful of friendswith therapy dogs and they very
(05:32):
generously assist me.
But when people call me fromother parts of the country and
they have the book and they'reready to go, I said you have to
find the dog.
It doesn't have to be a therapydog, but they're vetted and
their temperament is.
I know what that is like andthat would be a very safe dog,
(05:53):
do you?
Speaker 1 (05:54):
work yourself up from a small little dog to a bigger
dog if your fear is of big dogs.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yes, Basically, as you know, we scaffold whatever
that is from, you know, theleast threatening or challenging
exercise to the mostchallenging.
So for some people they mightjust stand 15 feet away from the
dog for 15 minutes and then wego up from there.
(06:24):
So it's interesting.
Some people are afraid oflittle dogs.
Some people are afraid of beingjumped on.
There's some information in theactivity guide to help you get
more specific about your fear,but in my experience the
majority is people don't knowwhat they're afraid of.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Right, I saw in the workbook that it asked you to
kind of like try to identify and, if you didn't know, to kind of
guess what might have causedthe problem in the beginning.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Is there a lot of kids who don't know where it
came from?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yes, so basically, there's four different ways that
probably any phobia develops,but with this one, the first one
and most people think this isthe most common which is
something negative happens toyou with a dog, it doesn't have
to be an attack, it could justbe that a dog barked at you.
(07:19):
The thing is, if you experienceit as threatening and stressful
, then it can start the fear.
Or if you see somethingnegative happen to someone else.
Or the third way is you hearabout it, somebody you know,
(07:40):
like.
I had one grandmother who grewup in Puerto Rico and there were
a lot of stray dogs and shewould always tell her
grandchildren that you know,dogs are dangerous, stay away
from dogs.
Yes.
And then the fourth way, which,honestly, amy, seems to be the
(08:04):
most common.
It's like a certain personality, which is what it was with my
daughter.
These kids tend to be cautious,observant, creative, all kinds
of wonderful characteristics,but they don't understand dogs
and that makes them fear.
(08:25):
So the first thing we do I callit dog lessons is we learn
about dogs?
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yeah, that's great, and so do you notice ever that
people are saying oh to thesechildren?
This is ridiculous.
It's just a dog.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Yes, lighten up Yep, yep.
So which is, as you know, as asocial worker, that's the number
one.
No-no, you validate how they'refeeling, because in my
experience, if you say, oh,you're being silly, there's
nothing to be afraid of, Kidswill go out of their way to show
you oh yes, I am afraid.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
So it's better to just say I understand, you're
afraid, we're going to keep yousafe and help you feel brave,
that's good, and so if you goover to someone's house and
they've got a dog and they don'tput it away, what should they
do instead?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Well, I think what I've come to realize is there
are really two parts to thisfear.
The first one is we're afraidof things we don't understand,
so we learn as much as we canabout dogs.
So when we look at a dogbecause they communicate with
their bodies and their voice,communicate with their bodies
(09:46):
and their voice, and when welook at a dog we can learn to
tell.
This dog is saying, stay away.
This dog is saying I'm friendlyand what?
I've come to this?
This is in the second book, notthe first, because I, as I said
to someone the other day, I'mstill learning.
Every session is different,every client is different and I
I continue to learn and toadjust, which actually makes the
(10:10):
work very exciting.
But what I suggest is, if you'regoing somewhere and there's a
dog comfortable with the host,to ask that the dog be leashed
and meet and greet you outsidetheir house.
Oh, okay, because lots of dogsget very excited when you come
(10:34):
into their house.
That makes sense.
So they're going to bark,they're going to jump, unless
they're very well trained, butmy experience, including my own
dog they get very excited.
So you meet them outside, takefour or five minutes so the dog
can see you and you can also seethe dog and you can see.
(10:55):
Okay, you know this is a safedog.
You know this is a safe dog andalso, as you know, that fight
or flight thing kicks in and cantake 5, 10, even 15 minutes to
calm the nervous system.
So I suggest that you can takethat time to do it also and then
(11:17):
when you go in the house, ifthe people are willing to
continue to keep the dog on theleash for a while.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Oh, that's a great idea and I love how in your book
, because you were talking aboutneeding to see the dog and know
are they being playful, arethey being upset, are they being
friendly?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
That kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
You've actually got in your workbook two full pages
of different pictures of thedogs and what their body
represents at that time.
Yes, and I think that's great,because if they learn that ahead
of time, that should, I wouldhope, help them to calm down
when they see the dog reenactingthat behavior.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Yes.
And the other thing I tell kidsis 99% of dog bites have a
warning.
You just have to know what tolook for.
It's very rare that dogs biteout of the blue.
Don't want it to add to thefear and, quite honestly, the
(12:22):
majority of dogs that we comeacross, if you're respectful and
know when to give them spaceand this is up to parents to
supervise a healthy dog willwalk away as long as they have
an exit ramp.
My dog I have.
She's better now.
But when my granddaughter wastwo and a half, she's fascinated
(12:44):
with Winnie and she would getin Winnie's face and I watched
very carefully and once or twiceWinnie gave a little and I said
, okay, winnie is saying nothank you and I said okay, when
he is saying no thank you, let'sgo do something else.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
That's good.
Just educating them, yes.
So what do you?
Or do you teach children safety, like if they need to recognize
that a dog is getting upset andwhat to do at that time if they
can't get away, or should theyrun?
Should they?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
walk, good question.
If they can't get away?
Or should they run?
Should they walk?
Good question.
So the first thing I tell kidsis never run from a dog, because
dogs are hardwired to chasethings, even in fun.
So if you're afraid of dogs,even though you want to run,
that is almost guaranteed thatthat dog is going to follow you.
(13:41):
So we practice standing verystill, either like a tree or
crossing your arms and turningyour head away from the dog and
breathing and telling yourselfI'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine,
because in dog language, whenthe dog turns their head away,
(14:02):
they're telling the other dogI'm not interested, keep moving,
ah, okay, yeah, that's great,yeah.
And God forbid that you comeacross an aggressive dog and you
are in danger.
You're supposed to crouch downlike a rock and cover your head.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Oh wow, I hadn't heard that.
That's great to know.
So do you have any storiesabout someone who's come a long
way in their fear of?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
dogs.
Yes, I have a pretty good trackrecord.
There are a few people I haveto say I was not able to help.
One was a 17-year-old footballplayer and he was so panicked he
locked himself in his room andwould not come out even for $100
.
Wow, yeah.
But most of the people havebeen able to.
(14:54):
Even if they don't want tointeract or live on a dog, they
could go about their life.
They could go to the bus stop,they could walk past a dog in a
restaurant.
That's laying down, you knowthings like that.
One of like, my poster childfor this is Taylor, who, when
she was seven, she came with herparents and, by the way,
(15:27):
parents and, by the way, this isthe tricky part Many parents
are supportive and kind of dothat balance between helping but
notforcing, okay, but not all
parents.
So, as the facilitator of thesession, that's something that I
kind of have to dance aroundsometimes.
Although I've gotten prettydirect, I will say you know what
You're paying me, let me dothis.
(15:47):
So, anyway, when Taylor gotthere, she sat in her car with
her mom for 20 minutes, cryinghysterically.
Oh no, she was able to get outof the car.
So, by the way, I alwayssuggest a reward or a motivator,
(16:08):
something that the kid mightwork for.
In this case I think it was amilkshake.
So Taylor got out of the carand she stood by the car and it
was Nico, who is one of thetherapy dogs and he's the
calmest one, he's like level one, and he was made I'm terrible
(16:29):
with distance, maybe he was 20feet away and he was just laying
on a blanket and we did somemindfulness, we did some deep
breathing and then I startedasking Taylor about gymnastics,
which she loves.
So we weren't even talkingabout the dog and immediately,
(16:49):
like, she became less guardedbecause she was talking about I
can't, maybe her tumbling Ican't remember exactly what her
favorite thing was, but and thenso she relaxed a little bit.
I always assure people that thedog is on a leash will stay on a
leash and will not approach youunless you want the dog to.
(17:12):
So most of the time the doglays down or sits in the
beginning.
And eventually we got Taylor upto Nico and first mom pet Nico
and then Taylor did one fingerand then a whole hand.
And another one of my tricks isI always say can you count to
(17:34):
10 in another language?
So then they're thinking aboutthat, not, I'm scared of the dog
, they're thinking about youknow.
So I have a whole bag of tricks, I have a superhero cape, I
have tutus, I have puzzles thatthe dogs do with kids.
And the sweet spot is betweenseven and maybe 10, because
(17:58):
these kids develop mentally,because these kids
developmentally, they'remotivated but they're not
self-conscious yet.
So they end up having fun.
We try to make it fun.
And then, at some point, I saidto Taylor look, you're standing
next to a dog, and she didreally well.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
That's amazing.
So have you noticed that kidsthat are afraid of dogs are
afraid of other animals, or isit just dogs?
Good, question.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
I haven't found any real correlation.
There are kids who are justafraid of dogs for the most part
, other than you know, sometypical seers that you might
have the dark, but there aresome kids who are afraid of more
than dogs.
Sometimes they tend to be alittle more anxious.
(18:50):
Often people are afraid of cats, dogs, birds, and I think it
all comes down to the animalsfeel unpredictable Right, and I
think a while ago I had saidthere's two things about the
fear and I never got to thesecond one, which is a need to
control.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Oh, I see that.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah, so we always make sure they have control.
We promise them they will notbe forced to do anything they
don't want to do.
We will enthusiastically nudgethem, but we'd all force.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
That's great.
Well, I just think it's soimpressive that the tools that
you're teaching them are notonly going to help them through
this fear, but going to belifelong tools they can use.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
That's a really good point.
So two parts to that.
The first one is I often,before we actually meet with the
dog because I do one sessionwithout the dog I will ask them
to remember a time when theyfelt afraid but they were able
to do something anyway.
For lots of kids it's puttingtheir head under the water, for
(20:01):
others it's roller coaster andwhatever.
And how did you feel after?
And they always said proud,relieved, it was fun.
And I said, well, and how didyou feel after?
And they always said proud,relieved, it was fun.
And I said, well, that's howyou're going to feel when you
pet the dog.
And then, once they've kind ofgraduated or you know, I've
gotten less afraid to your point, said I want you to remember if
(20:25):
you can do this, you could doanything.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Yes, I love that, so tell me what the names of your
books are and where we can findthose.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Sure.
So the first one is Overcomingyour Child's Fear of Dogs a
step-by-step guide for parents.
And if I could go back where itwasn't such a big deal, I would
change the title, because it'sactually.
It's a very useful book for notjust parents, for therapists,
(20:58):
dog trainers, grandma, anybodywho wants to help someone who's
afraid of dogs.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Right.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
And it's not just for children either.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
But I don't have the bandwidth in me to do that right
now.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
And the second one, which really is only about a
year old, is how to Face my Fearof Dogs, which is the companion
activity guide for kids to dowith the first book.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Yeah, I absolutely love that.
So where can they find these?
Are they on Amazon or incertain bookstores?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
They're not in bookstores, they're Barnes,
noble, amazon.
I think those are the main ones.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Okay, and if they want to work with you
specifically, do you only doface-to-face assistance or do
you ever do any Zoom meetings?
Speaker 2 (21:48):
I definitely do Zoom meetings and I can consult.
But if I don't have the dogthere I can't do the exposure
therapy.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Will that make?
Speaker 2 (22:00):
sense?
Yeah, but I can guide from afar.
It's interesting Last year amom in British Columbia had a
nine-year-old boy autistic boywho was afraid of dogs, and I
helped them come up with a plan.
I think it was the behaviortherapist who helped also and
(22:24):
she ran the session.
They found a dog and he made alot of progress.
I was really really happy aboutthat.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Great.
So if they do want to work withyou, where do they?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
find you.
Oh, I'm sorry.
So my website isovercomefearofdogscom.
Also on Instagram.
That's the handle and my email.
Email and I don't mind ifpeople contact me directly is my
name, but you have to spell itcorrectly
s-t-e-f-a-n-i-c-o-h-e-n and thenlcsw at gmailcom perfect, and
(23:03):
I'll put all of that informationin the show notes as well is
there anything that you feellike we didn't cover that you'd
like to speak to, I think.
I would just like to speak tothis fear can be faced and it
really is life change.
The emails and the reviews ofthe book, I mean it really just
(23:26):
shows that people didn't realizethat this was a thing and that
it could be helped.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Yeah, it must be very rewarding to hear from people.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
It's incredibly rewarding and, like I said, each
session is different and itreally keeps you on your toes.
Today I worked with asix-year-old little girl who,
when we went into her houseactually and it was Nico again
we went in and she was hidingbehind the sofa by the end she
(24:00):
was showing him her dance moves.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Oh my gosh, that's beautiful.
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, it's really it's extremely rewarding.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Well, I really appreciate you coming on and
talking to us about this today.
It means a lot, Well thank youso much.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
I really I love to spread the word and thank you
for helping.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Definitely All right.
You have a good day you too.
Thank you so much for tuninginto this episode of Advancing
(24:41):
with Amy.
You, too, truly life-changing.
My daughter has been afraid ofdogs her entire life and I'm
finally feeling some hope that Ican get her some help with this
.
If you'd like to learn more orneed resources for yourself or a
loved one, visit Stephanie'swebsite at overcomefearofdogscom
.
Her books Overcoming yourChild's Fear of Dogs a
(25:02):
Step-by-Step Guide for Parents,and the Companion Activity Guide
how to Face my Fear of Dogs,are available on Amazon and
Barnes Noble.
If you're interested in workingwith Stephanie directly or just
have questions, she welcomesyour emails at
stephaniecohenlcsw at gmailcom.
That'sS-T-E-F-A-N-I-C-O-H-E-N-L-C-S-W
(25:28):
at gmailcom.
I'll also include that in theshow notes.
Facing fears, buildingconfidence and supporting our
kids these are lessons we canall use.
Thanks again for listening andbe sure to subscribe so you
don't miss our next conversationon Advancing with Amy.
Mental Health Warrior andNeuroSpicy.
Mama, keep advancing, warrior.
Welcome back to another episode of Advancing
with Amy, mental Health Warriorand NeuroSpicyMama.
Today, I sit down withStephanie Kohit, a licensed
clinical social worker whoseunique expertise lies in helping
children and families navigatedevelopmental challenges.
Plus, she's developed agroundbreaking approach to
(00:23):
overcoming the often overlookedfear of dogs, from real-life
success stories to practicaltips you can use right now.
Stephanie shares how phobiaslike this can shape family life,
why they tend to fly under theradar, and the compassionate,
step-by-step methods that trulyempower kids and their parents
(00:46):
to conquer anxiety.
If you or someone you lovestruggles with fears that hold
them back, especially when itcomes to our four-legged friends
, this episode will offer hope,guidance and maybe even a few
smiles along the way.
Let's dive in.
Today we're talking withStephanie Cohen, and Stephanie,
(01:10):
can you tell me a little bitabout what you do and how you
got started in it?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Sure, so I'm a licensed clinical social worker
and my main practice is workingwith families and children.
Many of them are neurodivergentkids with some developmental
delays, young children for themost part.
And then I have this littleside niche it's actually more
(01:36):
than a niche now, which I'mhappy about of helping people
who are afraid of dogs face thatfear helping people who are
afraid of dogs.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Face that fear.
That's great.
My daughter's afraid of dogs,so I think it's so impressive
that you've got a whole businesscreated out of this so that
people can get help and move onwith their lives, because it can
be totally restricting.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yes, that's what happened actually when my
daughter was five, which wasmany, many years ago, and
actually when my daughter wasfive, which was many, many years
ago, she one day just announcedI'm afraid of dogs and I'm not
going to Jennifer's house for aplay date because they have a
dog and I didn't know how tohelp her.
And intuitively, my sister andI, with my sister's dog, we did
(02:25):
exposure therapy and then, overthe years, years, have kind of
refined the protocol and, as youknow, I've written two books
and I get calls from all overthe country.
It's really, it's a phobia thatflies under the radar in many
ways, so but it's an importantone.
I always say that you know, ifyou're afraid of spiders or
heights or even flying, you canpretty much live your life, but
(02:49):
not if you're afraid of dogs.
It really impacts you.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah, you are so right, and I was reading through
your children's book and Inoticed a lot of these things
could apply to just anybody withanxiety, but these are specific
to people that have fear ofdogs.
Right, how do people with thisfear go under the radar?
How does that happen?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Well, I think it's actually, I think, more
prevalent than people realize.
Adults have kind of learned tofake it and they can sort of
hide their fear a little bit Notalways, and a lot of adults
have told me that they feelashamed by their fear.
But when I say it goes underthe radar, it's like, unless you
(03:37):
have to, you're going somewherewhere there's a dog.
You might not ever know thatyou know someone you love is
afraid of dogs.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Right.
The problem is you can't goanywhere safely if you don't
know whether they have a dog ornot.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Well, that's true, there's a big avoidance.
And what's interesting is, youknow, a lot of times, if a kid's
going on a play date orsomething, people will put their
dog in another room or in acrate or something.
Not everybody.
There are some people who won'tdo that, which is okay too, but
(04:14):
by putting the dog awayquote-unquote that inadvertently
reinforces the fear.
Oh my gosh, I would have neverthought that.
I mean yeah.
So the translation is wow, thatdog must be dangerous if
they're putting it away.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Oh, I see now, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
And then another important piece is a lot of
parents think their kids willoutgrow it, but also they help
their kids avoid uncomfortablesituations because it's hard for
them to tolerate their childbeing in distress, which I
understand.
(04:53):
But that also reinforces thefear and it tends to get worse
without some help.
What a vicious circle yes.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
So what do you recommend?
Is it something they canactually fix on their own with
the help of your book, or dothey actually need professional
care?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Well, I think what they really need is they need a
suitable dog and a handler,because this really only works.
From my experience withexposure therapy to a real dog
my experience with exposuretherapy to a real dog.
So and that seems to be thehardest part of this, even for
me, I have a handful of friendswith therapy dogs and they very
(05:32):
generously assist me.
But when people call me fromother parts of the country and
they have the book and they'reready to go, I said you have to
find the dog.
It doesn't have to be a therapydog, but they're vetted and
their temperament is.
I know what that is like andthat would be a very safe dog,
(05:53):
do you?
Speaker 1 (05:54):
work yourself up from a small little dog to a bigger
dog if your fear is of big dogs.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yes, Basically, as you know, we scaffold whatever
that is from, you know, theleast threatening or challenging
exercise to the mostchallenging.
So for some people they mightjust stand 15 feet away from the
dog for 15 minutes and then wego up from there.
(06:24):
So it's interesting.
Some people are afraid oflittle dogs.
Some people are afraid of beingjumped on.
There's some information in theactivity guide to help you get
more specific about your fear,but in my experience the
majority is people don't knowwhat they're afraid of.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Right, I saw in the workbook that it asked you to
kind of like try to identify and, if you didn't know, to kind of
guess what might have causedthe problem in the beginning.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Is there a lot of kids who don't know where it
came from?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yes, so basically, there's four different ways that
probably any phobia develops,but with this one, the first one
and most people think this isthe most common which is
something negative happens toyou with a dog, it doesn't have
to be an attack, it could justbe that a dog barked at you.
(07:19):
The thing is, if you experienceit as threatening and stressful
, then it can start the fear.
Or if you see somethingnegative happen to someone else.
Or the third way is you hearabout it, somebody you know,
(07:40):
like.
I had one grandmother who grewup in Puerto Rico and there were
a lot of stray dogs and shewould always tell her
grandchildren that you know,dogs are dangerous, stay away
from dogs.
Yes.
And then the fourth way, which,honestly, amy, seems to be the
(08:04):
most common.
It's like a certain personality, which is what it was with my
daughter.
These kids tend to be cautious,observant, creative, all kinds
of wonderful characteristics,but they don't understand dogs
and that makes them fear.
(08:25):
So the first thing we do I callit dog lessons is we learn
about dogs?
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yeah, that's great, and so do you notice ever that
people are saying oh to thesechildren?
This is ridiculous.
It's just a dog.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Yes, lighten up Yep, yep.
So which is, as you know, as asocial worker, that's the number
one.
No-no, you validate how they'refeeling, because in my
experience, if you say, oh,you're being silly, there's
nothing to be afraid of, Kidswill go out of their way to show
you oh yes, I am afraid.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
So it's better to just say I understand, you're
afraid, we're going to keep yousafe and help you feel brave,
that's good, and so if you goover to someone's house and
they've got a dog and they don'tput it away, what should they
do instead?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Well, I think what I've come to realize is there
are really two parts to thisfear.
The first one is we're afraidof things we don't understand,
so we learn as much as we canabout dogs.
So when we look at a dogbecause they communicate with
their bodies and their voice,communicate with their bodies
(09:46):
and their voice, and when welook at a dog we can learn to
tell.
This dog is saying, stay away.
This dog is saying I'm friendlyand what?
I've come to this?
This is in the second book, notthe first, because I, as I said
to someone the other day, I'mstill learning.
Every session is different,every client is different and I
I continue to learn and toadjust, which actually makes the
(10:10):
work very exciting.
But what I suggest is, if you'regoing somewhere and there's a
dog comfortable with the host,to ask that the dog be leashed
and meet and greet you outsidetheir house.
Oh, okay, because lots of dogsget very excited when you come
(10:34):
into their house.
That makes sense.
So they're going to bark,they're going to jump, unless
they're very well trained, butmy experience, including my own
dog they get very excited.
So you meet them outside, takefour or five minutes so the dog
can see you and you can also seethe dog and you can see.
(10:55):
Okay, you know this is a safedog.
You know this is a safe dog andalso, as you know, that fight
or flight thing kicks in and cantake 5, 10, even 15 minutes to
calm the nervous system.
So I suggest that you can takethat time to do it also and then
(11:17):
when you go in the house, ifthe people are willing to
continue to keep the dog on theleash for a while.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Oh, that's a great idea and I love how in your book
, because you were talking aboutneeding to see the dog and know
are they being playful, arethey being upset, are they being
friendly?
Speaker 2 (11:35):
That kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
You've actually got in your workbook two full pages
of different pictures of thedogs and what their body
represents at that time.
Yes, and I think that's great,because if they learn that ahead
of time, that should, I wouldhope, help them to calm down
when they see the dog reenactingthat behavior.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Yes.
And the other thing I tell kidsis 99% of dog bites have a
warning.
You just have to know what tolook for.
It's very rare that dogs biteout of the blue.
Don't want it to add to thefear and, quite honestly, the
(12:22):
majority of dogs that we comeacross, if you're respectful and
know when to give them spaceand this is up to parents to
supervise a healthy dog willwalk away as long as they have
an exit ramp.
My dog I have.
She's better now.
But when my granddaughter wastwo and a half, she's fascinated
(12:44):
with Winnie and she would getin Winnie's face and I watched
very carefully and once or twiceWinnie gave a little and I said
, okay, winnie is saying nothank you and I said okay, when
he is saying no thank you, let'sgo do something else.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
That's good.
Just educating them, yes.
So what do you?
Or do you teach children safety, like if they need to recognize
that a dog is getting upset andwhat to do at that time if they
can't get away, or should theyrun?
Should they?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
walk, good question.
If they can't get away?
Or should they run?
Should they walk?
Good question.
So the first thing I tell kidsis never run from a dog, because
dogs are hardwired to chasethings, even in fun.
So if you're afraid of dogs,even though you want to run,
that is almost guaranteed thatthat dog is going to follow you.
(13:41):
So we practice standing verystill, either like a tree or
crossing your arms and turningyour head away from the dog and
breathing and telling yourselfI'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine,
because in dog language, whenthe dog turns their head away,
(14:02):
they're telling the other dogI'm not interested, keep moving,
ah, okay, yeah, that's great,yeah.
And God forbid that you comeacross an aggressive dog and you
are in danger.
You're supposed to crouch downlike a rock and cover your head.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Oh wow, I hadn't heard that.
That's great to know.
So do you have any storiesabout someone who's come a long
way in their fear of?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
dogs.
Yes, I have a pretty good trackrecord.
There are a few people I haveto say I was not able to help.
One was a 17-year-old footballplayer and he was so panicked he
locked himself in his room andwould not come out even for $100
.
Wow, yeah.
But most of the people havebeen able to.
(14:54):
Even if they don't want tointeract or live on a dog, they
could go about their life.
They could go to the bus stop,they could walk past a dog in a
restaurant.
That's laying down, you knowthings like that.
One of like, my poster childfor this is Taylor, who, when
she was seven, she came with herparents and, by the way,
(15:27):
parents and, by the way, this isthe tricky part Many parents
are supportive and kind of dothat balance between helping but
notforcing, okay, but not all
parents.
So, as the facilitator of thesession, that's something that I
kind of have to dance aroundsometimes.
Although I've gotten prettydirect, I will say you know what
You're paying me, let me dothis.
(15:47):
So, anyway, when Taylor gotthere, she sat in her car with
her mom for 20 minutes, cryinghysterically.
Oh no, she was able to get outof the car.
So, by the way, I alwayssuggest a reward or a motivator,
(16:08):
something that the kid mightwork for.
In this case I think it was amilkshake.
So Taylor got out of the carand she stood by the car and it
was Nico, who is one of thetherapy dogs and he's the
calmest one, he's like level one, and he was made I'm terrible
(16:29):
with distance, maybe he was 20feet away and he was just laying
on a blanket and we did somemindfulness, we did some deep
breathing and then I startedasking Taylor about gymnastics,
which she loves.
So we weren't even talkingabout the dog and immediately,
(16:49):
like, she became less guardedbecause she was talking about I
can't, maybe her tumbling Ican't remember exactly what her
favorite thing was, but and thenso she relaxed a little bit.
I always assure people that thedog is on a leash will stay on a
leash and will not approach youunless you want the dog to.
(17:12):
So most of the time the doglays down or sits in the
beginning.
And eventually we got Taylor upto Nico and first mom pet Nico
and then Taylor did one fingerand then a whole hand.
And another one of my tricks isI always say can you count to
(17:34):
10 in another language?
So then they're thinking aboutthat, not, I'm scared of the dog
, they're thinking about youknow.
So I have a whole bag of tricks, I have a superhero cape, I
have tutus, I have puzzles thatthe dogs do with kids.
And the sweet spot is betweenseven and maybe 10, because
(17:58):
these kids develop mentally,because these kids
developmentally, they'remotivated but they're not
self-conscious yet.
So they end up having fun.
We try to make it fun.
And then, at some point, I saidto Taylor look, you're standing
next to a dog, and she didreally well.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
That's amazing.
So have you noticed that kidsthat are afraid of dogs are
afraid of other animals, or isit just dogs?
Good, question.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
I haven't found any real correlation.
There are kids who are justafraid of dogs for the most part
, other than you know, sometypical seers that you might
have the dark, but there aresome kids who are afraid of more
than dogs.
Sometimes they tend to be alittle more anxious.
(18:50):
Often people are afraid of cats, dogs, birds, and I think it
all comes down to the animalsfeel unpredictable Right, and I
think a while ago I had saidthere's two things about the
fear and I never got to thesecond one, which is a need to
control.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Oh, I see that.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah, so we always make sure they have control.
We promise them they will notbe forced to do anything they
don't want to do.
We will enthusiastically nudgethem, but we'd all force.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
That's great.
Well, I just think it's soimpressive that the tools that
you're teaching them are notonly going to help them through
this fear, but going to belifelong tools they can use.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
That's a really good point.
So two parts to that.
The first one is I often,before we actually meet with the
dog because I do one sessionwithout the dog I will ask them
to remember a time when theyfelt afraid but they were able
to do something anyway.
For lots of kids it's puttingtheir head under the water, for
(20:01):
others it's roller coaster andwhatever.
And how did you feel after?
And they always said proud,relieved, it was fun.
And I said, well, and how didyou feel after?
And they always said proud,relieved, it was fun.
And I said, well, that's howyou're going to feel when you
pet the dog.
And then, once they've kind ofgraduated or you know, I've
gotten less afraid to your point, said I want you to remember if
(20:25):
you can do this, you could doanything.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Yes, I love that, so tell me what the names of your
books are and where we can findthose.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Sure.
So the first one is Overcomingyour Child's Fear of Dogs a
step-by-step guide for parents.
And if I could go back where itwasn't such a big deal, I would
change the title, because it'sactually.
It's a very useful book for notjust parents, for therapists,
(20:58):
dog trainers, grandma, anybodywho wants to help someone who's
afraid of dogs.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Right.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
And it's not just for children either.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
But I don't have the bandwidth in me to do that right
now.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
And the second one, which really is only about a
year old, is how to Face my Fearof Dogs, which is the companion
activity guide for kids to dowith the first book.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Yeah, I absolutely love that.
So where can they find these?
Are they on Amazon or incertain bookstores?
Speaker 2 (21:33):
They're not in bookstores, they're Barnes,
noble, amazon.
I think those are the main ones.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Okay, and if they want to work with you
specifically, do you only doface-to-face assistance or do
you ever do any Zoom meetings?
Speaker 2 (21:48):
I definitely do Zoom meetings and I can consult.
But if I don't have the dogthere I can't do the exposure
therapy.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Will that make?
Speaker 2 (22:00):
sense?
Yeah, but I can guide from afar.
It's interesting Last year amom in British Columbia had a
nine-year-old boy autistic boywho was afraid of dogs, and I
helped them come up with a plan.
I think it was the behaviortherapist who helped also and
(22:24):
she ran the session.
They found a dog and he made alot of progress.
I was really really happy aboutthat.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Great.
So if they do want to work withyou, where do they?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
find you.
Oh, I'm sorry.
So my website isovercomefearofdogscom.
Also on Instagram.
That's the handle and my email.
Email and I don't mind ifpeople contact me directly is my
name, but you have to spell itcorrectly
s-t-e-f-a-n-i-c-o-h-e-n and thenlcsw at gmailcom perfect, and
(23:03):
I'll put all of that informationin the show notes as well is
there anything that you feellike we didn't cover that you'd
like to speak to, I think.
I would just like to speak tothis fear can be faced and it
really is life change.
The emails and the reviews ofthe book, I mean it really just
(23:26):
shows that people didn't realizethat this was a thing and that
it could be helped.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Yeah, it must be very rewarding to hear from people.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
It's incredibly rewarding and, like I said, each
session is different and itreally keeps you on your toes.
Today I worked with asix-year-old little girl who,
when we went into her houseactually and it was Nico again
we went in and she was hidingbehind the sofa by the end she
(24:00):
was showing him her dance moves.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Oh my gosh, that's beautiful.
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, it's really it's extremely rewarding.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Well, I really appreciate you coming on and
talking to us about this today.
It means a lot, Well thank youso much.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
I really I love to spread the word and thank you
for helping.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Definitely All right.
You have a good day you too.
Thank you so much for tuninginto this episode of Advancing
(24:41):
with Amy.
You, too, truly life-changing.
My daughter has been afraid ofdogs her entire life and I'm
finally feeling some hope that Ican get her some help with this
.
If you'd like to learn more orneed resources for yourself or a
loved one, visit Stephanie'swebsite at overcomefearofdogscom
.
Her books Overcoming yourChild's Fear of Dogs a
(25:02):
Step-by-Step Guide for Parents,and the Companion Activity Guide
how to Face my Fear of Dogs,are available on Amazon and
Barnes Noble.
If you're interested in workingwith Stephanie directly or just
have questions, she welcomesyour emails at
stephaniecohenlcsw at gmailcom.
That'sS-T-E-F-A-N-I-C-O-H-E-N-L-C-S-W
(25:28):
at gmailcom.
I'll also include that in theshow notes.
Facing fears, buildingconfidence and supporting our
kids these are lessons we canall use.
Thanks again for listening andbe sure to subscribe so you
don't miss our next conversationon Advancing with Amy.
Mental Health Warrior andNeuroSpicy.
Mama, keep advancing, warrior.
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