May 26, 2025 • 44 mins
Listen to Amy an Lori talk mental health, neurodivergence and spirituality. This time Amy, Mental Health Warrior & Neurospicy Mama, is on the hotseat and Lori Kirstein from the Goodbye Goodgirl Project has the interviewer's mic.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Amy Taylor (00:00):
welcome back to Advancing with Amy Mental Health
Warrior and NeuroSpicyMama.
Today we're flipping the scriptand turning things upside down.
Lori Kirstein from the GoodbyeGood Girl podcast is going to be
interviewing me.
Yes, you heard it right.
I'm not going to beinterviewing today.
I'm going to be in the hot seat.
(00:22):
Get ready for a fun and realconversation as Lori takes over
the interview mic.
If you like what Lori's doing,don't forget to give her a big
thumbs up on YouTube and showyour support.
Let's dive in and make somemagic together.
Lori Kirstein (00:58):
Hi laurie here with the goodbye good girl
podcast, and today I have theindomitable amy taylor, and she
is the mental health warrior andneuro spicy mama.
You can't pay enough for atitle like that, honestly.
She's a life coach, a spiritualcoach, a podcast host and a
social worker who's basicallybuilt a career out of turning
(01:21):
chaos into clarity.
Sounds good to me.
She helps women with mentalhealth and neurodivergent
challenges stop spiraling, startthriving and maybe even laugh a
little along the way.
So Amy I met very recently.
She is real, she is funny, sheis just boundless, and I am so
(01:42):
happy to have her with mebecause I think she's one of the
coolest women in my life.
So how the heck are you, amy,welcome?
Amy Taylor (01:50):
wow, I'm doing great .
Now I have some chill.
That was great.
Thank you, I'm very excited tobe here.
Where the heck did you come upwith neuro spicy mama, I gotta
know, actually, you know, one ofthe first people I interviewed
it was just mental health lawyerand one of the first people I
interviewed said they were NeuroSpicy and I decided I was going
(02:14):
to be Neuro Spicy Mama.
I liked it, it's absolutelybrilliant.
Lori Kirstein (02:19):
Yeah, it's like it's saying I'm going to be my
free flag self, you know, butyou don't have to say it, you
just go'm going to be my freeflag self.
You know, I'm going to be myfree flag self, but you don't
have to say it, you just go.
Amy Taylor (02:27):
I'm neuro spicy, right exactly Like it or lump it
.
Lori Kirstein (02:32):
Like it or lump it.
So have you all know, first ofall, what is neurodivergent.
For those who don't know, andalso have you always known this
about yourself.
Amy Taylor (02:42):
Great question.
Neurodivergent is just thatyour brain thinks differently,
it operates a little differently.
It could be autism, it could beADHD, it's really anytime.
Your brain is different thanthe neurotypical person, the
average person.
It can even be people with atraumatic brain injury.
(03:03):
My specific one is bipolardisorder and ADHD and my
daughter's on the spectrum withADHD.
And did I always know?
No, I didn't get diagnosed withADHD until I was in my 40s and
I got diagnosed with bipolar inmy 30s.
Lori Kirstein (03:26):
So nope, didn't always know, did that change
your life in some noticeableways?
Learning that this washappening and it was a thing,
and it wasn't?
Amy Taylor (03:36):
it gave me help, because once you have a label,
people can help you.
Lori Kirstein (03:41):
Right, got it.
Is it one thing about having alabel on?
Because I know, when I was inmy 20s I was in therapy and I
was told you have depression,anxiety, you have.
What was the other one I get?
(04:02):
The one that vets have whenthey come back PTSD.
I had PTSD, all these things,but that helped them give me the
right medications, but itdidn't help me heal from it and
I wanted to heal from it.
But I know at some other timewe've talked about, you know,
the fact that what we go through, what we are made of, is also
(04:26):
very, very sacred in that itcreates certain aspects to us.
So would you talk to us aboutthe sacredness and the gift of
being quote unquote different?
Amy Taylor (04:38):
I think it makes you really take a look at who you
are and what your belief systemis.
And I'm very spiritual and Ibelieve there are a zillion
pathways to God and I personallybelieve there's a source of
energy that combines all of us,brings us all together and as
(05:00):
one.
It's a very powerful energy oflove.
So learning that I was bipolarespecially made me look at,
because I was not happy in thebeginning.
I was like, oh my gosh, that'sa horrible diagnosis.
But then when the meds startedto work, I was like, oh okay,
(05:20):
well, that's much better, I'mnot as volatile, I'm not yelling
at my kid.
So it was relief that I got.
Lori Kirstein (05:32):
I'm going to ask you a question I know I've asked
you off air before If you couldheal from it and no longer be
neurodivergent.
If you could take that magicpill, would you and no longer be
neurodivergent?
If you could take that magicpill, would you?
Amy Taylor (05:44):
No, because I am who I am and I like myself now.
Haven't always, but I have fora while now.
And, like for my daughter, shehas autism.
I wouldn't change that foranything, because she is so
creative and so funny and she'sjust her own wonderful being, so
I wouldn't change it.
Lori Kirstein (06:07):
That is beautiful .
I wouldn't change my past now,although a lot of it was really
hard.
I wouldn't want to do it again.
I think I've learned.
I think it served its purpose.
I think it had a purpose, but Ihad to decide the purpose.
Amy Taylor (06:28):
Exactly, and I've had some very, very dark periods
in my life that I definitelydon't want to live again.
But I also am appreciative thatI've had them and survived.
Because that does two things itallows me to help other people
that are going through that and,secondly, it makes me know that
(06:51):
I'm a survivor, that I can gothrough a depression again.
And it's different when you gothrough it.
Now I'm 54.
And when I go through adepression now I go okay, this
sucks, but I know that it'sgoing to end at some point and I
need to get help and I know Ihave tools to go get help now.
(07:13):
So it's a totally differentballgame.
Lori Kirstein (07:18):
One of the things that I do in my work with
people is really challenge thein my work with people is really
challenge the things that wethink are just givens.
Yeah, you know, I think thatyou do the same thing in your
own way, so can you talk to usabout how you break the rules
and how you question the ismsthat we're just supposed to
(07:41):
believe are real?
Amy Taylor (07:43):
Well, I'm not.
I would like to say I'mfearless, but I wasn't in the
beginning when I first decidedto what I call come out of the
closet as being bipolar.
Only my closest friends andfamily knew, like even my
extended family did not know.
And I was very, very nervousand I had had cancer previously
(08:11):
and that's what kind of made mego.
You know what?
I survived cancer.
I'm going to be myself fromhere on out.
It's just you.
What you see is what you get.
And so I put it on Facebook andI started a blog at the time
and I decided to, you know,start a podcast.
And the first week that I haddone that, after it was out on
(08:33):
Facebook, I literally woke upone night in a cold sweat.
I sat straight up in bed out ofthe sound sleep and freaked out
.
Bed out of the sound sleep andfreaked out.
I thought, oh my God, what haveI done?
And my poor family?
You know they're probablyembarrassed and now I can't ever
(08:56):
take it back.
And so, you know, I had to waituntil morning time and call my
mom and she was like we're notembarrassed and you haven't
changed who you are and whocares.
And I was like oh yeah, I'llpay them all right wow, what is
that?
Lori Kirstein (09:13):
what is that?
That thing when we step outsideof our, of our comfort zone,
that first moment of like, everysingle fear coming up and going
shouldn't have gone yeah that'sjust's, just this.
It's an energy.
It's not real.
It's like ghosts going boo.
Amy Taylor (09:31):
Well, your body wants you to stay in status quo,
and so your body is fighting tokeep everything the same.
And so when you step out ofsight of that circle or that box
, your body goes, wait, this isnot safe.
And so you have to spend alittle time to build that up and
(09:55):
get to where your body feelssafe.
Lori Kirstein (09:58):
Well, this is you're on something that is
really dear to my heart, becauseI bring acting and improv into
the work that I do with, say,executive women or women in
groups, which is get peoplevisible.
This is the one thing that weare terrified to do.
Yeah Right, we're justterrified that all of the
(10:22):
physical and emotionalsecurities we've built up will
somehow magically not be there.
People will see us, you know,and they'll see how scared we
are or how flawed we are, and Ithink that's a universal, but
it's also not the humancondition.
I think it's conditioning.
I think we've been conditionedto judge ourselves negatively
(10:55):
never positively.
Amy Taylor (10:56):
We have to actually work to judge ourselves
positively.
You definitely get that groundinto you as you grow up that you
need to be hard on yourself andpush more and and not settle
for less and all that stuff.
But it's a weird dichotomybecause at the same time you
don't want to be seen it's beingseen that makes you feel better
(11:22):
.
You know what I mean.
Say more about that.
Yeah Well, I just mean that,even though it's scary and so
you don't want people to seethat you're afraid, maybe, or
see that you have a what do youcall it?
Like you have a sore spot orsomething they can get to you
with, but at the same time, oncesomebody really truly sees you
(11:43):
and who you are and you knowthey accept you that way, oh my
gosh, that just is so fulfillingyes, call it emotional intimacy
.
Lori Kirstein (11:57):
When I know that not only am I okay with what I'm
sharing, but that you're okaywith what I'm sharing, but that
you're okay with what I'msharing, wow Bliss multiplied by
two, I'll take it.
Yeah, take it every day, yeah,when I'm in a really bad spot.
I mean, now I know how to shiftand if I'm not being stubborn,
(12:24):
if I'm not being stubborn, thenI can go and I can shift it
really quickly, really easily.
But when I get stubborn, then Ican spend four days, you know,
miserable.
Amy Taylor (12:36):
Isn't it interesting when you do that, when you get
stubborn, it's like you want tobe in that bunk.
It's like don't make me feelbetter, don't take me out of the
house, don't you know?
Make me get in nature, you allthe things that you know will
help.
You're just like I don't care.
I just feel like this and Iwant to feel like this everybody
(12:56):
, leave me alone.
But as soon as you get thatlittle pinprick of light, it's
like oh, that's what it was likebefore.
Oh, yeah, I want that back.
Lori Kirstein (13:08):
And then you start to do those things oh yeah
, you used to feel like, yeah,oh, my god, and I, I too, call
it that little pinprick of light.
You know it's that's.
All it takes.
Is that little tiny, yeah, thatlittle bit of light?
You're coming back, just comingback.
(13:28):
I wonder.
Given our conversation up tonow, I'm thinking I wonder if
that stubbornness is anotherpart of the conditioning of
saying things are supposed to behard, of saying things are
supposed to be hard and I'msupposed to really hurt my way
to the payoff, which is feelinggood, you know, I'm just
(13:52):
wondering right now, is thatwhat that is?
Amy Taylor (14:01):
I think it's that, and I think it's also like I
talked about before, that onceyou're feeling a certain way,
your body wants you to staythere and be safe in that,
whatever it is that you'refeeling.
So I think that's part of it.
But I also do think that wedefinitely think life is
supposed to be hard.
I can't tell you how many timesmy dad said to me when I was
little no one promised you lifewas fair and you know life is
(14:23):
supposed to be hard and you haveto pull up your bootstraps, put
your big girl panties on.
Lori Kirstein (14:32):
No, no, no.
I had the same crap on my way,and so did probably everybody
who's going to listen to this,right, and that is extremely
damaging.
Oh yeah, knowing what you and Iknow, which is then what you
believe and what you focus on,is what you're going to get,
right, right?
Henry Ford said it Whether youthink you can or you think you
(14:55):
can't, you're right.
Amy Taylor (14:56):
Yes exactly Well, and I remember also when I was
young, everyone said I was sosensitive.
My parents always told me quitbeing so sensitive, quit crying.
And now I'm like you know whatI like that I'm sensitive.
It's part of who I am.
It's why I'm a social workerand a coach in the first place,
(15:16):
and that's important to me andI'm proud of that.
Lori Kirstein (15:19):
Now, oh, that's beautiful.
Yes, and that's that'sincredibly true.
That's that's incredibly true.
There's nobody like you, yeahthere's nobody like you there,
never will be, never, you're it.
So who are we waiting for tocome along and go?
You're good enough.
(15:39):
It just it's not.
It's a losing game.
Amy Taylor (15:42):
No, you have to come along for yourself.
You have to say I'm good enough.
Lori Kirstein (15:47):
Right Now.
You gave me a reallyinteresting list of rules that
you break.
You challenged the perfect mommyth.
You normalize mental healthconversations in bold,
unfiltered ways.
You help women rewrite theirlives after devastation.
I am most interested in thismoment about your challenging
(16:09):
the perfect mom myth.
Could you say something aboutthat?
Amy Taylor (16:13):
Sure, well, I have two children and I had them 18
years apart.
So I have one that is 32 and hashis own family, and my
grandkids are there andeverything.
And then I have my teenagedaughter, who I told you is on
the spectrum, and I, you know,in the beginning, with my
(16:34):
daughter she would act out andeverybody just kept telling me,
amy, you know she's spoiled andyou let her get away with so
much and you need to disciplineher more and she needs spanked.
And you know, and I tried, Iwanted to be a good mom and so,
(16:56):
when everyone kept telling methat I did, start to discipline
her more and then it got worse,she just acted out horribly and
I couldn't get her back undercontrol for a while.
And so I finally after we youknow, got her diagnosed and
(17:18):
everything and got her help.
I started reading all thesebooks on parenting and autism
and all this stuff and I justtold the people that were still
telling me that she was spoiled,that they needed to basically
mind their own business, becausethat's not the case and I had
to be the mom that I knew I hadto be for her.
(17:41):
And now that I've done that,her and I have an incredible
relationship, so I'm so thankfulthat that happened.
Oh my God.
Lori Kirstein (17:52):
That is to me, that is like the biggest step
that women can take, thatmothers can take, is I'm doing
it my way and I know I'm notdeliberately causing harm and I
know I'm not being blind to anyharm I could be causing Exactly,
but I'm doing it my way.
Yep, did I tell you the storyof these two people who had a
(18:15):
child on the spectrum?
I don't know if I had told youthat story before.
I don't think so and I can't,for the like of me, remember
their names.
This was back in like the 1980s.
I read some stuff from thesepeople and they had a child on
the spectrum, and very deeply onthe spectrum he was.
He would sit and turn incircles and he would bang his
head against the wall and youknow really extreme sorts of
things.
And they heard from someplacethat if you just sit with him
(18:40):
and do what he's doing, it'sgoing to really help, it's going
to normalize things, it's goingto change things.
So's going to normalize things,it's going to change things.
So they thought, well, we'vetried everything else.
So they went on a 24-hourschedule where they took turns,
you know, probably four hours ata time, and whatever he did,
they did, and when they weregiving this talk, it was 25
(19:03):
years later.
He was 27.
He was no longer autistic andhe was leading workshops with
them.
Amy Taylor (19:11):
Wow, Well, that's another point for being seen.
He had to feel like he wasfinally seen and accepted as he
was, and then he could grow.
Lori Kirstein (19:27):
Yes, then he didn't have to spend that energy
defending himself.
Is that what you mean?
Amy Taylor (19:31):
Yeah, he didn't have to be like the odd duck out.
His parents finally looked athim and said we're going to just
do what you do, because we seeyou and what you're doing is
okay and we love you and that's.
That does everything for a kidoh, my god, you're right.
Lori Kirstein (19:54):
That's like that's the foundation.
Wow, that's gorgeous.
I'm gonna have to hunt downtheir names.
I can give the title of thebook to you and put it in here.
Amy Taylor (20:07):
Yeah, I would love that, oh God.
Lori Kirstein (20:10):
Amazing people, Amazing.
I love people who think outsidethe box.
Yeah me too, and challengetheir own fear, to go live out
there and try it out, see if itworks, see what happens.
I also wanted to ask you yousay that you don't sugarcoat or
sanitize personal developmentand ditto.
Right, I can't take it.
(20:32):
Tell me what, tell me what.
Do you find that you mostparticularly have to wash away
when you're talking to people?
Amy Taylor (20:42):
Well, I just think that positivity has a place, but
I don't think you can always bethat way and I don't think that
we should force people to bepositive when they don't feel
well or when they are in thatfunk or they want to stay in it.
You have to accept people wherethey're at and be okay with
(21:06):
that.
So I just you know there's alot of good personal development
tricks and tips out there andthey're good, but I just think
they're not for everybody atevery stage of their life.
Does that make sense?
Lori Kirstein (21:23):
I think that's spot on for my money as well.
I mean, almost everything outthere has worth.
You know it helps somebody.
Amy Taylor (21:33):
Yeah.
Lori Kirstein (21:34):
But maybe not today Exactly, yeah, yeah, and
I've been thinking I haven't yetstarted this task, but I've
been thinking it would be reallyawesome to put together a way
of looking at the personalgrowth path.
Um, now I don't know if that'spossible because we're all very
different, but I know that it'sbeen done in four consciousness
(21:58):
stages by the uh.
Let's see the centers forspiritual living.
They teach a whole course abouthow we grow and the fact that
you can grow up to the fourthlevel, but you're still always
going to touch on the others.
Amy Taylor (22:14):
Interesting.
Yeah, I don't know much aboutthat.
Lori Kirstein (22:17):
Yeah, I wish, if I'd known I was going to mention
it, I would have looked it upfor you, but oh well, everybody
will talk again.
I'm pretty sure.
Yeah, for sure, um, so, uh, Ithink it would be really awesome
to either look at those, thoselevels, or um, or say what are
(22:42):
the sort of stages and whatshould we know that we take
along with us on the journey,because it's not like we learn
this thing and then we leave itbehind and we learn this thing.
It all comes with us, right?
Amy Taylor (22:55):
Right, but I also think I mean you know Maslow's
hierarchy.
You couldn't say it for asecond.
That always really hit me as soreal.
Because if you this goes backto what I said, that you can't
always be positive and you can'talways use the tips and tricks
If you're not getting your basicneeds met, you're not safe, you
(23:19):
don't have a roof over yourhead, you don't have food, you
know anything like that.
How can you even think aboutspiritual enlightenment?
It's not.
Lori Kirstein (23:30):
Oh my God.
I spent three years homeless.
I did, and I was in my 50s, sothis is like what is happening,
and I didn't have to be on thestreet.
Thank God I didn't have to beon the street.
I didn't have to be in my car.
There were friends who took mein.
So over that three-year periodthere were places I could stay
that were indoors.
What was I going to say?
Amy Taylor (23:56):
I went and lost my train of thought we were talking
about how you can't be thinkingabout spiritual enlightenment
when you're suffering.
Lori Kirstein (24:07):
So I met a lot of homeless people at different
events, like the Jewish FamilyService was where I went to get
food, where I went to get somecounseling and things like that,
and they have like gettogethers where we would do
artwork or we would watch moviesabout Judaism and it was some
really amazing people.
(24:28):
But quite a few of them, andquite a few of them were
freaking brilliant and quite afew of them were mentally ill,
yeah, and absolutely focused onthe misery.
Like there wasn't a spark ofhope there that was showing that
maybe I can come out of this.
(24:48):
That just wasn't there and Iwas a mess, you know, especially
at the beginning.
I was like how did this happen?
How could I possibly have been?
How could I become homeless?
Like this is a shaming of mywhole family, like I went deep
with the whole shame thing andum, but I was determined.
I was like, if this is the wayI end, I'm going to gather up my
(25:11):
pride.
I'm not going to beg for forhelp from friends.
I'm going to get help where Ican socially, like from Jewish
family service and other places,but I'm not going to appear
like a, like a wimpy.
Oh, I'm just, I'm not going todo it.
I'm going to keep my pride andand I'm going to also stick with
the very little I've been I'vemanaged to really identify as
(25:35):
practical and true aboutspirituality.
And so one of the things I didwas I would look around me
always to see what was positive,what was good, what was
fulfilling, what was a littlebit better than the current
moment.
And I want to tell you aboutthis one bus driver.
I was going downtown on the busevery day to and from work for
(25:57):
this telemarketing job, and thisone bus driver was so epic, he
would pull over to pick peopleup and when they would come on
he'd go hello, good morning, howare you?
It is so good to see you.
He was effusive and warm andreal and I fell in love with him
(26:18):
.
And then when he would pullaway to get back on the road,
he'd say to the whole bus OK,family, here we go.
I love that my heart, oh myheart.
I only saw him that one day.
Every time he is a light book,absolutely OK.
(26:38):
Family and I felt like hisfamily.
I felt not alone for the firsttime in months.
That's amazing, oh my God.
So really I was looking forthese clues of you know, proof
of life, yep, and that's the onething that I see that people
who are homeless and mentallyill, they don't necessarily have
(27:02):
that knowing that there is lifeto have proof of Right and
that's what it's at.
Amy Taylor (27:08):
The sad thing is is when you're there and you're
saying, oh my God, everything isso awful and I'm never going to
get help and I'm always goingto be on the street, Then the
universe conspires to say whatyou're saying is true, and so
you're not going to get off thestreet and you're not going to
(27:30):
find the help you need.
It's a horrible situation to bein because they've got to at
some point hopefully find someshimmer of light to turn their
thought process around so thatthey can think of better things
and start to pull that intotheir universe.
Lori Kirstein (27:51):
Or simply not have anything, like the night
when I was completely going downfor the third time emotionally
and I just said to, and I meantit as a statement of like this
is the truth.
Now, I've got nothing, like Idon't have an idea, I don't have
a concept, I don't have a hopeI don't have, I've got nothing.
(28:13):
And it wasn't a I've gotnothing.
You got to do something.
It was just like this surrendermoment, this allowing moment of
like yeah, I've got nothing,and in that letting go of having
to have the answer my way, yeah, I got a spark of yeah, right,
(28:34):
um, but I think that it is.
I think the time we're in, Ithink the evolutionary period
we're in, truly is about uscoming to an understanding of
how to be self-actualized, howto have our personal agency, so
that we go I'm not feelingparticularly satisfied or
(28:54):
fulfilled or happy or joyous orwhatever.
The thing is that we're hopingto feel.
I'm not feeling that I canshift it.
I can actually choose to feelsomething a little better than
what I'm feeling right now and Ihave that power.
Amy Taylor (29:10):
Yeah, I agree, and I think it's interesting that,
like you said, we're all goingthrough that now, because what
happens is sometimes you say youknow happens is sometimes you
say you know, oh, now I canshift my thoughts or I can, you
know, get into a better space.
(29:34):
The universe goes well, let mejust test that.
And so you have all thesethings going on in different
areas of the world and you'regetting tested.
So it's kind of hard, but it'salso like you have to dig up all
the dirt so that you can plantflowers.
Lori Kirstein (29:49):
That's so pretty.
That's so pretty I use thatphrasing too that I get tested.
But I don't really believe it.
I mean I don't, I don't.
If what you mean is there'ssomebody who's testing me, I, I
don't know, I don't think sookay.
Amy Taylor (30:06):
No, I mean it like the universe when you.
I know that when you sendsomething out there, it wants
you to prove it's true.
It's like when you're lookingfor something, you find it do
you know what I mean?
Lori Kirstein (30:20):
I just think it's our energy, our accustomed
energies, that are still rollingout.
Okay, that could be.
I just think it's that thingwhere you're driving 100 miles
an hour and you can't come to adead stop just because you want
to yeah, roll to a stop.
But as far as what's going on inour country right now, holy God
(30:41):
you know.
So I feel very, very fortunatebecause I went through a load of
poverty and homelessness andall this stuff that nobody wants
to face, nobody wants to everhave, and most everybody will do
anything not to face, not to gointo including me, but I did it
on that, to go into includingme, but I did it on that.
(31:07):
So, and my, my challenge tomyself was can I find a way to
shift this energy?
And I had to learn that stuffthat I just said to you, like I
had to start investigating.
Wait a minute, wait a minute.
Why am I still?
Why am I still without money,don't you?
If you focus on on that, you'renot going to focus on feeling
your abundance and you're notgoing to be seeding that future.
These are very tough, yeah,tough things to commit to, even
(31:31):
working on.
Amy Taylor (31:32):
Forget making them, you know, but tough right well,
they, yeah, and I think, like wewere talking about earlier, in
your childhood you're taught allthese things, like in my family
, I was taught money was dirty,don't touch it, it's dirty, and
rich people are jerks and youknow money was not something,
(31:55):
and no, kids do not get to talkto their parents about money.
We don't have any and it's noneof your business.
That's what I was pretty muchtaught.
So, yeah, it was like this isadult stuff, and so I never
learned about it.
The only thing I learned wasthat it was bad.
And so, yeah, the first like 20years of my adulthood I was
(32:22):
living so poor.
If my parents had not helped meI would have been homeless.
And so, yeah, I had to get to aplace that just in the last
year or so, where I worked onthose money blocks and worked on
my misconceptions, rocks andworked on my misconceptions, and
(32:42):
, oh my gosh, I like, within ayear's time, totally turned it
around and brought in a job thatwas making like major more than
what I was making before, andit just all turned around.
Lori Kirstein (32:58):
That's so exciting to me to hear yeah,
just by working on your beliefs.
You know, I've never been um,that's never been my best mode.
Let me look at the belief andlet me change it and what I,
what I found is stronger is if Ifocus on the emotional setting
(33:19):
and start to change that andthen allow the energy that is
now improved to do the, to dothe right thing for me.
So tell me how, how do you workon on belief in a way that's
effective?
Amy Taylor (33:31):
Well, I think you have to realize that you have
that belief, because a lot of usgo through the day and we don't
even realize that we're talkingto ourselves in our head.
We don't realize that, like Ididn't know, I had all those
beliefs about money, I hadforgotten all that I had learned
.
You know what I mean, or Ididn't forget what I learned,
but I forgot that that was whatI was being taught, right?
(33:55):
And so I think the first way isto really do an assessment of
yourself and figure out what youbelieve.
Like maybe do some journalingevery day.
I'm a huge journal fan and Ilike to do brain dumps where I
just throw everything on thepage, and I also like to write
(34:17):
letters.
I've written letters to my momthat I will never give to her
because I love her too much.
But you know, sometimes youhave to get things out, and that
helps you realize what yourbeliefs are, and only then can
you start to work on changingthem.
Lori Kirstein (34:39):
So how do you change them?
Do you talk to yourself about,like I was saying before, like,
um I don't actually I don't knowif I said it on this podcast or
another one, but you know, um,are you really, are you really
less than I don't think?
So okay, so are.
Do you have qualities that arereally great?
(35:00):
Yeah, yeah, I actually do.
I have this and this cool.
How does that feel really good,feel better?
Yeah, you know, thankful yeah,been there.
Amy Taylor (35:11):
yeah, I think for me personally, I had to.
When I'm listening to somethingin my head, I had to start
catching myself saying thingslike, oh my god, I God I'm so
stupid.
Or oh my God, I can't believe Idid that.
You know things like that I hadto.
Once I realized I was sayingthose things, then I had to
actually try to stop them.
(35:32):
So I would actually write downwhat my thought was and then
write and switch it around, likeyou just did, and like if I
thought, oh my God, I'm sostupid, then I would write
beside it.
Where I wrote that, I wouldwrite I have a social work
degree and an MBA and if I'm anintelligent woman, there's no
(35:57):
reason for me to be callingmyself stupid.
So I mean, you have to countereverything it's funny.
Lori Kirstein (36:06):
There's something so magical about appreciating
oneself and daring.
Amy Taylor (36:10):
There's like a daringness aspect to that for
women, oh yeah because we'resupposed to be petite and we're
supposed to be modest and quietall those things sexy, why,
young, uh, what you list as longas your arm.
Lori Kirstein (36:33):
Yeah, yeah, can't , you cannot, you cannot match
up to that there's no, nobodywho can match up to that.
To that?
There's no, nobody who canmatch up to that.
Maybe Martha Stewart, I don'tknow.
No, not even like.
Come on, you know, marthaStewart is very interesting.
That woman is capable as hell,isn't she?
Amy Taylor (36:52):
yeah, and she got thrown in jail for something
that no man's got thrown in.
Well, maybe some men have, buta lot of men have done what she
did and didn't get thrown injail, I know, but she was female
.
Lori Kirstein (37:07):
How dare her you know I was thinking while you
were talking about how the wisemen and wise women I hope it's
and the wise women down in SouthAmerica and stuff, are the
people who really are neurospicy.
Do you know more about thatthan I do?
(37:27):
No, I don't know about it.
I've just come to understandthat, that you know the people
who think differently, thepeople who are more spiritual,
more creative, more out of thebox, not making sense according
to the norms.
Amy Taylor (37:40):
Those are wise people.
Well, they're more innovative.
They come up with ideas thatother people don't.
If you look back throughhistory, I think Albert Einstein
was considered neurodivergent.
There's a ton of people.
If you look through, you canGoogle and it'll tell you tons
of people that have createdthings and they were
(38:00):
neurodivergent.
And so, yeah, I mean, evenentrepreneurs are more likely to
be neurodivergent than not.
Lori Kirstein (38:11):
Well, I'm going to claim it for myself, then,
because, honest to God, I wastrying to schedule something.
I hope this doesn't turn out tobe offensive, but honestly,
it's a miracle that I'm grounded.
Thank God I'm a Capricorn.
Thank God because I'm alwaysout here, I'm always deep within
or way out, and I don't know ifthat's neurodivergent.
(38:32):
It makes me really question ifthe term neurodivergent simply
means individual in a way.
Amy Taylor (38:41):
I think it could.
Except for then I I'd be verycareful of saying everybody's a
little neurodivergent becausethey're individually themselves,
when I think the world is setup to help neurotypical people,
like the school system andthings like that.
So if you think differently,you have a very hard time
(39:04):
sometimes in the government orin the school system.
Lori Kirstein (39:09):
Well, given that I am the founder of the Goodbye,
good Girl project, I have tosay I think the norms are ill in
their rigidity.
Yeah, I don't think thatthey're healthy.
I don't think that they're thatthey're healthy, I don't think
that they're correct.
We are, we are spirituallyblossoming, amazing people and
(39:30):
no, I would never say well,everybody's a little bit
divergent.
Amy Taylor (39:34):
Yeah, there's a lot of people who do say that,
though I know you wouldn't.
Oh yeah, thank you.
Yeah, when my daughter gotdiagnosed with autism, she was
diagnosed from a hospitalbehavioral health department by
two different doctors who bothput her through three different
testing periods that we had togo to three separate times, two,
(39:59):
three separate times.
And her PCP, when she got thenotification, said they'll give
anybody an autism diagnosisthese days and I said thank you
very much and I went to theregister or her checkout desk
and I said we won't be comingback.
Good for you, good for me, yeah, good for you Did she ask yeah,
(40:22):
good for you.
Lori Kirstein (40:22):
Did she ask why Did you get to lodge a complaint
or anything?
Amy Taylor (40:26):
I got to tell the receptionist why, yeah, and she,
the receptionist, had justwatched my daughter stim.
You know what stimming is?
Oh, no, no Okay stimming is whatneurodivergent people,
especially if you're on theautism spectrum.
Timing is what neurodivergentpeople, especially if you're on
(40:49):
the autism spectrum.
They do it as a comforting kindof thing to get themselves
calmed down.
My daughter what she does isshe walks back and forth, she
paces and she just goes and goes.
She can do it all day long.
Wear out the carpet, and sothey had just watched her do
that before we went into thedoctor's appointment.
So the receptionist, when Itold her what the doctor said,
was just like appalled.
She's.
Lori Kirstein (41:08):
She's like uh, that's crazy yeah, okay, I want
people held accountable for thecrap that they do.
Yes, that's like a wish of mine.
Well, this is the bestconversation that I've had all
day Me too.
(41:30):
Awesome, totally awesome.
I'm so grateful.
We have to keep thisconversation going, yes, and is
there anything that you wouldlike to share with the audience
before we sign off?
Amy Taylor (41:44):
for now, yeah, I'd just like to say again that you
need to love yourself for whoyou are, all the good, the bad,
the ugly.
It's not bad and ugly, you know.
Just because someone told youthat, forget that, be yourself,
love yourself and anybody whodoesn't accept you the way you
(42:07):
are.
They don't need to be in yourcircle anymore.
Lori Kirstein (42:11):
That's how I feel and that's the way it is.
That is so self-supportive andbeautiful message.
Amy Taylor (42:22):
Thank you, thank you so much for having me today.
Lori Kirstein (42:25):
Oh, my goodness, thank you too.
This is.
This really has been fantastic,and I'm going to put your
information in for people to getin touch with you to get your
help, and I understand you'retaking a big professional step
soon.
Yes, when you're ready toannounce that, then people will
be able to to come to you forthat kind of thing.
Amy Taylor (42:45):
Yeah, and can I just mention my podcast real quick?
Please, I would love to havepeople check me out on Mental
Health, warrior and Neuro Spicy.
Mama, put it in any podcastplayer and it's there.
It's been.
There's probably about 61episodes, so you got a lot to
listen to if you want to checkit out.
Lori Kirstein (43:05):
I got to be on it .
It was fantastic.
Amy Taylor (43:07):
It's just fantastic oh, everybody should listen to
that episode.
That was just a week or two ago, wasn't it?
Yeah, it's just a couple weeksago.
Lori Kirstein (43:14):
Yeah, yeah, check that out, she was great.
Thank you, we were great.
Yeah, my friend, um, keep onbeing you and I'll see you next
time, all right?
Amy Taylor (43:27):
Bye, bye.
Wow.
Can you tell that we really hitit off?
We are good friends now.
We really did turn thingsupside down though today.
How fun was that.
Huge thanks to Lori forinviting me to swap seats and
let her work her signature magicas the host of the Goodbye,
(43:49):
good Girl podcast.
I hope you enjoyed this InsideOut episode as much as we did
making it.
If you loved what you heard andI know you did don't forget to
hit that thumbs up on YouTubeand show Lori some love.
Make sure you're subscribed soyou never miss another one of
her real bold and inspiringconversations.
Until next time, keep embracingyour true self, stay a little
(44:12):
wild and remember keep advancing, warrior.
welcome back to Advancing with Amy Mental Health
Warrior and NeuroSpicyMama.
Today we're flipping the scriptand turning things upside down.
Lori Kirstein from the GoodbyeGood Girl podcast is going to be
interviewing me.
Yes, you heard it right.
I'm not going to beinterviewing today.
I'm going to be in the hot seat.
(00:22):
Get ready for a fun and realconversation as Lori takes over
the interview mic.
If you like what Lori's doing,don't forget to give her a big
thumbs up on YouTube and showyour support.
Let's dive in and make somemagic together.
Lori Kirstein (00:58):
Hi laurie here with the goodbye good girl
podcast, and today I have theindomitable amy taylor, and she
is the mental health warrior andneuro spicy mama.
You can't pay enough for atitle like that, honestly.
She's a life coach, a spiritualcoach, a podcast host and a
social worker who's basicallybuilt a career out of turning
(01:21):
chaos into clarity.
Sounds good to me.
She helps women with mentalhealth and neurodivergent
challenges stop spiraling, startthriving and maybe even laugh a
little along the way.
So Amy I met very recently.
She is real, she is funny, sheis just boundless, and I am so
(01:42):
happy to have her with mebecause I think she's one of the
coolest women in my life.
So how the heck are you, amy,welcome?
Amy Taylor (01:50):
wow, I'm doing great .
Now I have some chill.
That was great.
Thank you, I'm very excited tobe here.
Where the heck did you come upwith neuro spicy mama, I gotta
know, actually, you know, one ofthe first people I interviewed
it was just mental health lawyerand one of the first people I
interviewed said they were NeuroSpicy and I decided I was going
(02:14):
to be Neuro Spicy Mama.
I liked it, it's absolutelybrilliant.
Lori Kirstein (02:19):
Yeah, it's like it's saying I'm going to be my
free flag self, you know, butyou don't have to say it, you
just go'm going to be my freeflag self.
You know, I'm going to be myfree flag self, but you don't
have to say it, you just go.
Amy Taylor (02:27):
I'm neuro spicy, right exactly Like it or lump it
.
Lori Kirstein (02:32):
Like it or lump it.
So have you all know, first ofall, what is neurodivergent.
For those who don't know, andalso have you always known this
about yourself.
Amy Taylor (02:42):
Great question.
Neurodivergent is just thatyour brain thinks differently,
it operates a little differently.
It could be autism, it could beADHD, it's really anytime.
Your brain is different thanthe neurotypical person, the
average person.
It can even be people with atraumatic brain injury.
(03:03):
My specific one is bipolardisorder and ADHD and my
daughter's on the spectrum withADHD.
And did I always know?
No, I didn't get diagnosed withADHD until I was in my 40s and
I got diagnosed with bipolar inmy 30s.
Lori Kirstein (03:26):
So nope, didn't always know, did that change
your life in some noticeableways?
Learning that this washappening and it was a thing,
and it wasn't?
Amy Taylor (03:36):
it gave me help, because once you have a label,
people can help you.
Lori Kirstein (03:41):
Right, got it.
Is it one thing about having alabel on?
Because I know, when I was inmy 20s I was in therapy and I
was told you have depression,anxiety, you have.
What was the other one I get?
(04:02):
The one that vets have whenthey come back PTSD.
I had PTSD, all these things,but that helped them give me the
right medications, but itdidn't help me heal from it and
I wanted to heal from it.
But I know at some other timewe've talked about, you know,
the fact that what we go through, what we are made of, is also
(04:26):
very, very sacred in that itcreates certain aspects to us.
So would you talk to us aboutthe sacredness and the gift of
being quote unquote different?
Amy Taylor (04:38):
I think it makes you really take a look at who you
are and what your belief systemis.
And I'm very spiritual and Ibelieve there are a zillion
pathways to God and I personallybelieve there's a source of
energy that combines all of us,brings us all together and as
(05:00):
one.
It's a very powerful energy oflove.
So learning that I was bipolarespecially made me look at,
because I was not happy in thebeginning.
I was like, oh my gosh, that'sa horrible diagnosis.
But then when the meds startedto work, I was like, oh okay,
(05:20):
well, that's much better, I'mnot as volatile, I'm not yelling
at my kid.
So it was relief that I got.
Lori Kirstein (05:32):
I'm going to ask you a question I know I've asked
you off air before If you couldheal from it and no longer be
neurodivergent.
If you could take that magicpill, would you and no longer be
neurodivergent?
If you could take that magicpill, would you?
Amy Taylor (05:44):
No, because I am who I am and I like myself now.
Haven't always, but I have fora while now.
And, like for my daughter, shehas autism.
I wouldn't change that foranything, because she is so
creative and so funny and she'sjust her own wonderful being, so
I wouldn't change it.
Lori Kirstein (06:07):
That is beautiful .
I wouldn't change my past now,although a lot of it was really
hard.
I wouldn't want to do it again.
I think I've learned.
I think it served its purpose.
I think it had a purpose, but Ihad to decide the purpose.
Amy Taylor (06:28):
Exactly, and I've had some very, very dark periods
in my life that I definitelydon't want to live again.
But I also am appreciative thatI've had them and survived.
Because that does two things itallows me to help other people
that are going through that and,secondly, it makes me know that
(06:51):
I'm a survivor, that I can gothrough a depression again.
And it's different when you gothrough it.
Now I'm 54.
And when I go through adepression now I go okay, this
sucks, but I know that it'sgoing to end at some point and I
need to get help and I know Ihave tools to go get help now.
(07:13):
So it's a totally differentballgame.
Lori Kirstein (07:18):
One of the things that I do in my work with
people is really challenge thein my work with people is really
challenge the things that wethink are just givens.
Yeah, you know, I think thatyou do the same thing in your
own way, so can you talk to usabout how you break the rules
and how you question the ismsthat we're just supposed to
(07:41):
believe are real?
Amy Taylor (07:43):
Well, I'm not.
I would like to say I'mfearless, but I wasn't in the
beginning when I first decidedto what I call come out of the
closet as being bipolar.
Only my closest friends andfamily knew, like even my
extended family did not know.
And I was very, very nervousand I had had cancer previously
(08:11):
and that's what kind of made mego.
You know what?
I survived cancer.
I'm going to be myself fromhere on out.
It's just you.
What you see is what you get.
And so I put it on Facebook andI started a blog at the time
and I decided to, you know,start a podcast.
And the first week that I haddone that, after it was out on
(08:33):
Facebook, I literally woke upone night in a cold sweat.
I sat straight up in bed out ofthe sound sleep and freaked out
.
Bed out of the sound sleep andfreaked out.
I thought, oh my God, what haveI done?
And my poor family?
You know they're probablyembarrassed and now I can't ever
(08:56):
take it back.
And so, you know, I had to waituntil morning time and call my
mom and she was like we're notembarrassed and you haven't
changed who you are and whocares.
And I was like oh yeah, I'llpay them all right wow, what is
that?
Lori Kirstein (09:13):
what is that?
That thing when we step outsideof our, of our comfort zone,
that first moment of like, everysingle fear coming up and going
shouldn't have gone yeah that'sjust's, just this.
It's an energy.
It's not real.
It's like ghosts going boo.
Amy Taylor (09:31):
Well, your body wants you to stay in status quo,
and so your body is fighting tokeep everything the same.
And so when you step out ofsight of that circle or that box
, your body goes, wait, this isnot safe.
And so you have to spend alittle time to build that up and
(09:55):
get to where your body feelssafe.
Lori Kirstein (09:58):
Well, this is you're on something that is
really dear to my heart, becauseI bring acting and improv into
the work that I do with, say,executive women or women in
groups, which is get peoplevisible.
This is the one thing that weare terrified to do.
Yeah Right, we're justterrified that all of the
(10:22):
physical and emotionalsecurities we've built up will
somehow magically not be there.
People will see us, you know,and they'll see how scared we
are or how flawed we are, and Ithink that's a universal, but
it's also not the humancondition.
I think it's conditioning.
I think we've been conditionedto judge ourselves negatively
(10:55):
never positively.
Amy Taylor (10:56):
We have to actually work to judge ourselves
positively.
You definitely get that groundinto you as you grow up that you
need to be hard on yourself andpush more and and not settle
for less and all that stuff.
But it's a weird dichotomybecause at the same time you
don't want to be seen it's beingseen that makes you feel better
(11:22):
.
You know what I mean.
Say more about that.
Yeah Well, I just mean that,even though it's scary and so
you don't want people to seethat you're afraid, maybe, or
see that you have a what do youcall it?
Like you have a sore spot orsomething they can get to you
with, but at the same time, oncesomebody really truly sees you
(11:43):
and who you are and you knowthey accept you that way, oh my
gosh, that just is so fulfillingyes, call it emotional intimacy
.
Lori Kirstein (11:57):
When I know that not only am I okay with what I'm
sharing, but that you're okaywith what I'm sharing, but that
you're okay with what I'msharing, wow Bliss multiplied by
two, I'll take it.
Yeah, take it every day, yeah,when I'm in a really bad spot.
I mean, now I know how to shiftand if I'm not being stubborn,
(12:24):
if I'm not being stubborn, thenI can go and I can shift it
really quickly, really easily.
But when I get stubborn, then Ican spend four days, you know,
miserable.
Amy Taylor (12:36):
Isn't it interesting when you do that, when you get
stubborn, it's like you want tobe in that bunk.
It's like don't make me feelbetter, don't take me out of the
house, don't you know?
Make me get in nature, you allthe things that you know will
help.
You're just like I don't care.
I just feel like this and Iwant to feel like this everybody
(12:56):
, leave me alone.
But as soon as you get thatlittle pinprick of light, it's
like oh, that's what it was likebefore.
Oh, yeah, I want that back.
Lori Kirstein (13:08):
And then you start to do those things oh yeah
, you used to feel like, yeah,oh, my god, and I, I too, call
it that little pinprick of light.
You know it's that's.
All it takes.
Is that little tiny, yeah, thatlittle bit of light?
You're coming back, just comingback.
(13:28):
I wonder.
Given our conversation up tonow, I'm thinking I wonder if
that stubbornness is anotherpart of the conditioning of
saying things are supposed to behard, of saying things are
supposed to be hard and I'msupposed to really hurt my way
to the payoff, which is feelinggood, you know, I'm just
(13:52):
wondering right now, is thatwhat that is?
Amy Taylor (14:01):
I think it's that, and I think it's also like I
talked about before, that onceyou're feeling a certain way,
your body wants you to staythere and be safe in that,
whatever it is that you'refeeling.
So I think that's part of it.
But I also do think that wedefinitely think life is
supposed to be hard.
I can't tell you how many timesmy dad said to me when I was
little no one promised you lifewas fair and you know life is
(14:23):
supposed to be hard and you haveto pull up your bootstraps, put
your big girl panties on.
Lori Kirstein (14:32):
No, no, no.
I had the same crap on my way,and so did probably everybody
who's going to listen to this,right, and that is extremely
damaging.
Oh yeah, knowing what you and Iknow, which is then what you
believe and what you focus on,is what you're going to get,
right, right?
Henry Ford said it Whether youthink you can or you think you
(14:55):
can't, you're right.
Amy Taylor (14:56):
Yes exactly Well, and I remember also when I was
young, everyone said I was sosensitive.
My parents always told me quitbeing so sensitive, quit crying.
And now I'm like you know whatI like that I'm sensitive.
It's part of who I am.
It's why I'm a social workerand a coach in the first place,
(15:16):
and that's important to me andI'm proud of that.
Lori Kirstein (15:19):
Now, oh, that's beautiful.
Yes, and that's that'sincredibly true.
That's that's incredibly true.
There's nobody like you, yeahthere's nobody like you there,
never will be, never, you're it.
So who are we waiting for tocome along and go?
You're good enough.
(15:39):
It just it's not.
It's a losing game.
Amy Taylor (15:42):
No, you have to come along for yourself.
You have to say I'm good enough.
Lori Kirstein (15:47):
Right Now.
You gave me a reallyinteresting list of rules that
you break.
You challenged the perfect mommyth.
You normalize mental healthconversations in bold,
unfiltered ways.
You help women rewrite theirlives after devastation.
I am most interested in thismoment about your challenging
(16:09):
the perfect mom myth.
Could you say something aboutthat?
Amy Taylor (16:13):
Sure, well, I have two children and I had them 18
years apart.
So I have one that is 32 and hashis own family, and my
grandkids are there andeverything.
And then I have my teenagedaughter, who I told you is on
the spectrum, and I, you know,in the beginning, with my
(16:34):
daughter she would act out andeverybody just kept telling me,
amy, you know she's spoiled andyou let her get away with so
much and you need to disciplineher more and she needs spanked.
And you know, and I tried, Iwanted to be a good mom and so,
(16:56):
when everyone kept telling methat I did, start to discipline
her more and then it got worse,she just acted out horribly and
I couldn't get her back undercontrol for a while.
And so I finally after we youknow, got her diagnosed and
(17:18):
everything and got her help.
I started reading all thesebooks on parenting and autism
and all this stuff and I justtold the people that were still
telling me that she was spoiled,that they needed to basically
mind their own business, becausethat's not the case and I had
to be the mom that I knew I hadto be for her.
(17:41):
And now that I've done that,her and I have an incredible
relationship, so I'm so thankfulthat that happened.
Oh my God.
Lori Kirstein (17:52):
That is to me, that is like the biggest step
that women can take, thatmothers can take, is I'm doing
it my way and I know I'm notdeliberately causing harm and I
know I'm not being blind to anyharm I could be causing Exactly,
but I'm doing it my way.
Yep, did I tell you the storyof these two people who had a
(18:15):
child on the spectrum?
I don't know if I had told youthat story before.
I don't think so and I can't,for the like of me, remember
their names.
This was back in like the 1980s.
I read some stuff from thesepeople and they had a child on
the spectrum, and very deeply onthe spectrum he was.
He would sit and turn incircles and he would bang his
head against the wall and youknow really extreme sorts of
things.
And they heard from someplacethat if you just sit with him
(18:40):
and do what he's doing, it'sgoing to really help, it's going
to normalize things, it's goingto change things.
So's going to normalize things,it's going to change things.
So they thought, well, we'vetried everything else.
So they went on a 24-hourschedule where they took turns,
you know, probably four hours ata time, and whatever he did,
they did, and when they weregiving this talk, it was 25
(19:03):
years later.
He was 27.
He was no longer autistic andhe was leading workshops with
them.
Amy Taylor (19:11):
Wow, Well, that's another point for being seen.
He had to feel like he wasfinally seen and accepted as he
was, and then he could grow.
Lori Kirstein (19:27):
Yes, then he didn't have to spend that energy
defending himself.
Is that what you mean?
Amy Taylor (19:31):
Yeah, he didn't have to be like the odd duck out.
His parents finally looked athim and said we're going to just
do what you do, because we seeyou and what you're doing is
okay and we love you and that's.
That does everything for a kidoh, my god, you're right.
Lori Kirstein (19:54):
That's like that's the foundation.
Wow, that's gorgeous.
I'm gonna have to hunt downtheir names.
I can give the title of thebook to you and put it in here.
Amy Taylor (20:07):
Yeah, I would love that, oh God.
Lori Kirstein (20:10):
Amazing people, Amazing.
I love people who think outsidethe box.
Yeah me too, and challengetheir own fear, to go live out
there and try it out, see if itworks, see what happens.
I also wanted to ask you yousay that you don't sugarcoat or
sanitize personal developmentand ditto.
Right, I can't take it.
(20:32):
Tell me what, tell me what.
Do you find that you mostparticularly have to wash away
when you're talking to people?
Amy Taylor (20:42):
Well, I just think that positivity has a place, but
I don't think you can always bethat way and I don't think that
we should force people to bepositive when they don't feel
well or when they are in thatfunk or they want to stay in it.
You have to accept people wherethey're at and be okay with
(21:06):
that.
So I just you know there's alot of good personal development
tricks and tips out there andthey're good, but I just think
they're not for everybody atevery stage of their life.
Does that make sense?
Lori Kirstein (21:23):
I think that's spot on for my money as well.
I mean, almost everything outthere has worth.
You know it helps somebody.
Amy Taylor (21:33):
Yeah.
Lori Kirstein (21:34):
But maybe not today Exactly, yeah, yeah, and
I've been thinking I haven't yetstarted this task, but I've
been thinking it would be reallyawesome to put together a way
of looking at the personalgrowth path.
Um, now I don't know if that'spossible because we're all very
different, but I know that it'sbeen done in four consciousness
(21:58):
stages by the uh.
Let's see the centers forspiritual living.
They teach a whole course abouthow we grow and the fact that
you can grow up to the fourthlevel, but you're still always
going to touch on the others.
Amy Taylor (22:14):
Interesting.
Yeah, I don't know much aboutthat.
Lori Kirstein (22:17):
Yeah, I wish, if I'd known I was going to mention
it, I would have looked it upfor you, but oh well, everybody
will talk again.
I'm pretty sure.
Yeah, for sure, um, so, uh, Ithink it would be really awesome
to either look at those, thoselevels, or um, or say what are
(22:42):
the sort of stages and whatshould we know that we take
along with us on the journey,because it's not like we learn
this thing and then we leave itbehind and we learn this thing.
It all comes with us, right?
Amy Taylor (22:55):
Right, but I also think I mean you know Maslow's
hierarchy.
You couldn't say it for asecond.
That always really hit me as soreal.
Because if you this goes backto what I said, that you can't
always be positive and you can'talways use the tips and tricks
If you're not getting your basicneeds met, you're not safe, you
(23:19):
don't have a roof over yourhead, you don't have food, you
know anything like that.
How can you even think aboutspiritual enlightenment?
It's not.
Lori Kirstein (23:30):
Oh my God.
I spent three years homeless.
I did, and I was in my 50s, sothis is like what is happening,
and I didn't have to be on thestreet.
Thank God I didn't have to beon the street.
I didn't have to be in my car.
There were friends who took mein.
So over that three-year periodthere were places I could stay
that were indoors.
What was I going to say?
Amy Taylor (23:56):
I went and lost my train of thought we were talking
about how you can't be thinkingabout spiritual enlightenment
when you're suffering.
Lori Kirstein (24:07):
So I met a lot of homeless people at different
events, like the Jewish FamilyService was where I went to get
food, where I went to get somecounseling and things like that,
and they have like gettogethers where we would do
artwork or we would watch moviesabout Judaism and it was some
really amazing people.
(24:28):
But quite a few of them, andquite a few of them were
freaking brilliant and quite afew of them were mentally ill,
yeah, and absolutely focused onthe misery.
Like there wasn't a spark ofhope there that was showing that
maybe I can come out of this.
(24:48):
That just wasn't there and Iwas a mess, you know, especially
at the beginning.
I was like how did this happen?
How could I possibly have been?
How could I become homeless?
Like this is a shaming of mywhole family, like I went deep
with the whole shame thing andum, but I was determined.
I was like, if this is the wayI end, I'm going to gather up my
(25:11):
pride.
I'm not going to beg for forhelp from friends.
I'm going to get help where Ican socially, like from Jewish
family service and other places,but I'm not going to appear
like a, like a wimpy.
Oh, I'm just, I'm not going todo it.
I'm going to keep my pride andand I'm going to also stick with
the very little I've been I'vemanaged to really identify as
(25:35):
practical and true aboutspirituality.
And so one of the things I didwas I would look around me
always to see what was positive,what was good, what was
fulfilling, what was a littlebit better than the current
moment.
And I want to tell you aboutthis one bus driver.
I was going downtown on the busevery day to and from work for
(25:57):
this telemarketing job, and thisone bus driver was so epic, he
would pull over to pick peopleup and when they would come on
he'd go hello, good morning, howare you?
It is so good to see you.
He was effusive and warm andreal and I fell in love with him
(26:18):
.
And then when he would pullaway to get back on the road,
he'd say to the whole bus OK,family, here we go.
I love that my heart, oh myheart.
I only saw him that one day.
Every time he is a light book,absolutely OK.
(26:38):
Family and I felt like hisfamily.
I felt not alone for the firsttime in months.
That's amazing, oh my God.
So really I was looking forthese clues of you know, proof
of life, yep, and that's the onething that I see that people
who are homeless and mentallyill, they don't necessarily have
(27:02):
that knowing that there is lifeto have proof of Right and
that's what it's at.
Amy Taylor (27:08):
The sad thing is is when you're there and you're
saying, oh my God, everything isso awful and I'm never going to
get help and I'm always goingto be on the street, Then the
universe conspires to say whatyou're saying is true, and so
you're not going to get off thestreet and you're not going to
(27:30):
find the help you need.
It's a horrible situation to bein because they've got to at
some point hopefully find someshimmer of light to turn their
thought process around so thatthey can think of better things
and start to pull that intotheir universe.
Lori Kirstein (27:51):
Or simply not have anything, like the night
when I was completely going downfor the third time emotionally
and I just said to, and I meantit as a statement of like this
is the truth.
Now, I've got nothing, like Idon't have an idea, I don't have
a concept, I don't have a hopeI don't have, I've got nothing.
(28:13):
And it wasn't a I've gotnothing.
You got to do something.
It was just like this surrendermoment, this allowing moment of
like yeah, I've got nothing,and in that letting go of having
to have the answer my way, yeah, I got a spark of yeah, right,
(28:34):
um, but I think that it is.
I think the time we're in, Ithink the evolutionary period
we're in, truly is about uscoming to an understanding of
how to be self-actualized, howto have our personal agency, so
that we go I'm not feelingparticularly satisfied or
(28:54):
fulfilled or happy or joyous orwhatever.
The thing is that we're hopingto feel.
I'm not feeling that I canshift it.
I can actually choose to feelsomething a little better than
what I'm feeling right now and Ihave that power.
Amy Taylor (29:10):
Yeah, I agree, and I think it's interesting that,
like you said, we're all goingthrough that now, because what
happens is sometimes you say youknow happens is sometimes you
say you know, oh, now I canshift my thoughts or I can, you
know, get into a better space.
(29:34):
The universe goes well, let mejust test that.
And so you have all thesethings going on in different
areas of the world and you'regetting tested.
So it's kind of hard, but it'salso like you have to dig up all
the dirt so that you can plantflowers.
Lori Kirstein (29:49):
That's so pretty.
That's so pretty I use thatphrasing too that I get tested.
But I don't really believe it.
I mean I don't, I don't.
If what you mean is there'ssomebody who's testing me, I, I
don't know, I don't think sookay.
Amy Taylor (30:06):
No, I mean it like the universe when you.
I know that when you sendsomething out there, it wants
you to prove it's true.
It's like when you're lookingfor something, you find it do
you know what I mean?
Lori Kirstein (30:20):
I just think it's our energy, our accustomed
energies, that are still rollingout.
Okay, that could be.
I just think it's that thingwhere you're driving 100 miles
an hour and you can't come to adead stop just because you want
to yeah, roll to a stop.
But as far as what's going on inour country right now, holy God
(30:41):
you know.
So I feel very, very fortunatebecause I went through a load of
poverty and homelessness andall this stuff that nobody wants
to face, nobody wants to everhave, and most everybody will do
anything not to face, not to gointo including me, but I did it
on that, to go into includingme, but I did it on that.
(31:07):
So, and my, my challenge tomyself was can I find a way to
shift this energy?
And I had to learn that stuffthat I just said to you, like I
had to start investigating.
Wait a minute, wait a minute.
Why am I still?
Why am I still without money,don't you?
If you focus on on that, you'renot going to focus on feeling
your abundance and you're notgoing to be seeding that future.
These are very tough, yeah,tough things to commit to, even
(31:31):
working on.
Amy Taylor (31:32):
Forget making them, you know, but tough right well,
they, yeah, and I think, like wewere talking about earlier, in
your childhood you're taught allthese things, like in my family
, I was taught money was dirty,don't touch it, it's dirty, and
rich people are jerks and youknow money was not something,
(31:55):
and no, kids do not get to talkto their parents about money.
We don't have any and it's noneof your business.
That's what I was pretty muchtaught.
So, yeah, it was like this isadult stuff, and so I never
learned about it.
The only thing I learned wasthat it was bad.
And so, yeah, the first like 20years of my adulthood I was
(32:22):
living so poor.
If my parents had not helped meI would have been homeless.
And so, yeah, I had to get to aplace that just in the last
year or so, where I worked onthose money blocks and worked on
my misconceptions, rocks andworked on my misconceptions, and
(32:42):
, oh my gosh, I like, within ayear's time, totally turned it
around and brought in a job thatwas making like major more than
what I was making before, andit just all turned around.
Lori Kirstein (32:58):
That's so exciting to me to hear yeah,
just by working on your beliefs.
You know, I've never been um,that's never been my best mode.
Let me look at the belief andlet me change it and what I,
what I found is stronger is if Ifocus on the emotional setting
(33:19):
and start to change that andthen allow the energy that is
now improved to do the, to dothe right thing for me.
So tell me how, how do you workon on belief in a way that's
effective?
Amy Taylor (33:31):
Well, I think you have to realize that you have
that belief, because a lot of usgo through the day and we don't
even realize that we're talkingto ourselves in our head.
We don't realize that, like Ididn't know, I had all those
beliefs about money, I hadforgotten all that I had learned
.
You know what I mean, or Ididn't forget what I learned,
but I forgot that that was whatI was being taught, right?
(33:55):
And so I think the first way isto really do an assessment of
yourself and figure out what youbelieve.
Like maybe do some journalingevery day.
I'm a huge journal fan and Ilike to do brain dumps where I
just throw everything on thepage, and I also like to write
(34:17):
letters.
I've written letters to my momthat I will never give to her
because I love her too much.
But you know, sometimes youhave to get things out, and that
helps you realize what yourbeliefs are, and only then can
you start to work on changingthem.
Lori Kirstein (34:39):
So how do you change them?
Do you talk to yourself about,like I was saying before, like,
um I don't actually I don't knowif I said it on this podcast or
another one, but you know, um,are you really, are you really
less than I don't think?
So okay, so are.
Do you have qualities that arereally great?
(35:00):
Yeah, yeah, I actually do.
I have this and this cool.
How does that feel really good,feel better?
Yeah, you know, thankful yeah,been there.
Amy Taylor (35:11):
yeah, I think for me personally, I had to.
When I'm listening to somethingin my head, I had to start
catching myself saying thingslike, oh my god, I God I'm so
stupid.
Or oh my God, I can't believe Idid that.
You know things like that I hadto.
Once I realized I was sayingthose things, then I had to
actually try to stop them.
(35:32):
So I would actually write downwhat my thought was and then
write and switch it around, likeyou just did, and like if I
thought, oh my God, I'm sostupid, then I would write
beside it.
Where I wrote that, I wouldwrite I have a social work
degree and an MBA and if I'm anintelligent woman, there's no
(35:57):
reason for me to be callingmyself stupid.
So I mean, you have to countereverything it's funny.
Lori Kirstein (36:06):
There's something so magical about appreciating
oneself and daring.
Amy Taylor (36:10):
There's like a daringness aspect to that for
women, oh yeah because we'resupposed to be petite and we're
supposed to be modest and quietall those things sexy, why,
young, uh, what you list as longas your arm.
Lori Kirstein (36:33):
Yeah, yeah, can't , you cannot, you cannot match
up to that there's no, nobodywho can match up to that.
To that?
There's no, nobody who canmatch up to that.
Maybe Martha Stewart, I don'tknow.
No, not even like.
Come on, you know, marthaStewart is very interesting.
That woman is capable as hell,isn't she?
Amy Taylor (36:52):
yeah, and she got thrown in jail for something
that no man's got thrown in.
Well, maybe some men have, buta lot of men have done what she
did and didn't get thrown injail, I know, but she was female
.
Lori Kirstein (37:07):
How dare her you know I was thinking while you
were talking about how the wisemen and wise women I hope it's
and the wise women down in SouthAmerica and stuff, are the
people who really are neurospicy.
Do you know more about thatthan I do?
(37:27):
No, I don't know about it.
I've just come to understandthat, that you know the people
who think differently, thepeople who are more spiritual,
more creative, more out of thebox, not making sense according
to the norms.
Amy Taylor (37:40):
Those are wise people.
Well, they're more innovative.
They come up with ideas thatother people don't.
If you look back throughhistory, I think Albert Einstein
was considered neurodivergent.
There's a ton of people.
If you look through, you canGoogle and it'll tell you tons
of people that have createdthings and they were
(38:00):
neurodivergent.
And so, yeah, I mean, evenentrepreneurs are more likely to
be neurodivergent than not.
Lori Kirstein (38:11):
Well, I'm going to claim it for myself, then,
because, honest to God, I wastrying to schedule something.
I hope this doesn't turn out tobe offensive, but honestly,
it's a miracle that I'm grounded.
Thank God I'm a Capricorn.
Thank God because I'm alwaysout here, I'm always deep within
or way out, and I don't know ifthat's neurodivergent.
(38:32):
It makes me really question ifthe term neurodivergent simply
means individual in a way.
Amy Taylor (38:41):
I think it could.
Except for then I I'd be verycareful of saying everybody's a
little neurodivergent becausethey're individually themselves,
when I think the world is setup to help neurotypical people,
like the school system andthings like that.
So if you think differently,you have a very hard time
(39:04):
sometimes in the government orin the school system.
Lori Kirstein (39:09):
Well, given that I am the founder of the Goodbye,
good Girl project, I have tosay I think the norms are ill in
their rigidity.
Yeah, I don't think thatthey're healthy.
I don't think that they're thatthey're healthy, I don't think
that they're correct.
We are, we are spirituallyblossoming, amazing people and
(39:30):
no, I would never say well,everybody's a little bit
divergent.
Amy Taylor (39:34):
Yeah, there's a lot of people who do say that,
though I know you wouldn't.
Oh yeah, thank you.
Yeah, when my daughter gotdiagnosed with autism, she was
diagnosed from a hospitalbehavioral health department by
two different doctors who bothput her through three different
testing periods that we had togo to three separate times, two,
(39:59):
three separate times.
And her PCP, when she got thenotification, said they'll give
anybody an autism diagnosisthese days and I said thank you
very much and I went to theregister or her checkout desk
and I said we won't be comingback.
Good for you, good for me, yeah, good for you Did she ask yeah,
(40:22):
good for you.
Lori Kirstein (40:22):
Did she ask why Did you get to lodge a complaint
or anything?
Amy Taylor (40:26):
I got to tell the receptionist why, yeah, and she,
the receptionist, had justwatched my daughter stim.
You know what stimming is?
Oh, no, no Okay stimming is whatneurodivergent people,
especially if you're on theautism spectrum.
Timing is what neurodivergentpeople, especially if you're on
(40:49):
the autism spectrum.
They do it as a comforting kindof thing to get themselves
calmed down.
My daughter what she does isshe walks back and forth, she
paces and she just goes and goes.
She can do it all day long.
Wear out the carpet, and sothey had just watched her do
that before we went into thedoctor's appointment.
So the receptionist, when Itold her what the doctor said,
was just like appalled.
She's.
Lori Kirstein (41:08):
She's like uh, that's crazy yeah, okay, I want
people held accountable for thecrap that they do.
Yes, that's like a wish of mine.
Well, this is the bestconversation that I've had all
day Me too.
(41:30):
Awesome, totally awesome.
I'm so grateful.
We have to keep thisconversation going, yes, and is
there anything that you wouldlike to share with the audience
before we sign off?
Amy Taylor (41:44):
for now, yeah, I'd just like to say again that you
need to love yourself for whoyou are, all the good, the bad,
the ugly.
It's not bad and ugly, you know.
Just because someone told youthat, forget that, be yourself,
love yourself and anybody whodoesn't accept you the way you
(42:07):
are.
They don't need to be in yourcircle anymore.
Lori Kirstein (42:11):
That's how I feel and that's the way it is.
That is so self-supportive andbeautiful message.
Amy Taylor (42:22):
Thank you, thank you so much for having me today.
Lori Kirstein (42:25):
Oh, my goodness, thank you too.
This is.
This really has been fantastic,and I'm going to put your
information in for people to getin touch with you to get your
help, and I understand you'retaking a big professional step
soon.
Yes, when you're ready toannounce that, then people will
be able to to come to you forthat kind of thing.
Amy Taylor (42:45):
Yeah, and can I just mention my podcast real quick?
Please, I would love to havepeople check me out on Mental
Health, warrior and Neuro Spicy.
Mama, put it in any podcastplayer and it's there.
It's been.
There's probably about 61episodes, so you got a lot to
listen to if you want to checkit out.
Lori Kirstein (43:05):
I got to be on it .
It was fantastic.
Amy Taylor (43:07):
It's just fantastic oh, everybody should listen to
that episode.
That was just a week or two ago, wasn't it?
Yeah, it's just a couple weeksago.
Lori Kirstein (43:14):
Yeah, yeah, check that out, she was great.
Thank you, we were great.
Yeah, my friend, um, keep onbeing you and I'll see you next
time, all right?
Amy Taylor (43:27):
Bye, bye.
Wow.
Can you tell that we really hitit off?
We are good friends now.
We really did turn thingsupside down though today.
How fun was that.
Huge thanks to Lori forinviting me to swap seats and
let her work her signature magicas the host of the Goodbye,
(43:49):
good Girl podcast.
I hope you enjoyed this InsideOut episode as much as we did
making it.
If you loved what you heard andI know you did don't forget to
hit that thumbs up on YouTubeand show Lori some love.
Make sure you're subscribed soyou never miss another one of
her real bold and inspiringconversations.
Until next time, keep embracingyour true self, stay a little
(44:12):
wild and remember keep advancing, warrior.
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