Buddy Gross "I Created My Own Slump" on MERCER-220

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
He is a four time FLW winner. He is a two time Bassmaster
Elite Series champion. He is a three time Bassmaster
Classic qualifier. Buddy Gross joins me this week.
OW. I'm Bob Cobb for the Bassmaster.

(00:24):
Welcome to Mercer. Welcome one.
Welcome all friends, family, freeloaders, fishing freaks, and
of course, you my humpers. You guys know the drill.
Welcome into the Awkwardly Honest Fishing podcast that goes
by my last name, which is Mercer.
This is the 220th edition of theMercer Podcast and I hope

(00:45):
wherever you're watching or listening from that life is
treating you well. Welcome into the show this week.
I thank you always for taking a little time out of your week to
tune into this particular brand of tomfoolery.
I hope all is well in your world.
I gave you guys a little homework.
A lot of people in the last weekwere shooting off fireworks and

(01:06):
I said, hey, let's keep all our digits.
So I hope that is the truth for all of you.
Wonderful time of year. I'm still in the middle of a bit
of a hiatus from the Bassmaster Elite series.
We pick things back up in Auguston Lake Saint Clair, but right

(01:27):
now and join shooting some shows, shooting a bunch of
underwater. Actually have some relatives in
town from Ireland so enjoying hanging with them and my goal
will be to not pick up an Irish accent because that was my
original accent and weirdly enough it seems I pick it up
when I spend time with Irish people.

(01:48):
It gets really bad when I go back to Ireland.
So let's hope I don't show up atLake Saint Clair and say, Hey
buddy, y'all welcome to Lake Saint Clair where have a wee wee
Derby here going on. But I'm sure I won't.
I'm weird that way. I don't know if other people
suffer from this affliction, butI pick up accents as I talk to

(02:11):
people. James Overstreet has a very
thick southern drawl. Whenever I talk to Overstreet,
my wife can tell that I'm talking, and when she walks in
the room she's like, you're talking Overstreet, aren't you?
I don't know why that happens tome.
Maybe I'm just a people pleaser and I want to please people.

(02:32):
So yeah. So we'll see what I sound like
on the future shows. But loving spending some time
with with my relatives from Ireland.
So happy they could make the trip over here.
And I hope things are going wellin your world.
We got a really cool show here this week and I think it's just

(02:53):
natural that in fishing, in any sport, in anything, we highlight
people at the top. You know, we always have the
winners on here right after theywon an event.
And quite often we don't get a chance to talk to somebody who's
struggling. And, and part of that's just
being good because, you know, you don't want to pile on to

(03:18):
somebody, but it's a big part ofthe story.
And this week's guest is in one of those slumps and he has a
very open and honest conversation about it.
And don't get me wrong, buddy Gross has accomplished a ton in
this sport. You know, to have multiple tour

(03:39):
level wins both at Bass and FLW,to have done a lot of the things
that he's done is truly amazing.But this sport is heartless.
It's relentless. It is a tough way to make a
living. And again, don't get me wrong,
there's people listening to thisthat are like, I would love to

(04:00):
try. You know, it's way better than
the cubicle or this truck I'm driving.
And you are right, but it doesn't come without its stress.
And the cool thing is Buddy is willing to be very open, very
honest and very real. And that's exactly what this
week's podcast is. So I hope you enjoy this look.

(04:22):
Kind of behind the curtain with Elite Series Pro Elite Series
champion, the one Buddy Gross. We now travel all the way to
Chattanooga, TN Chat with Buddy Buddy Gross.
It's good to finally do this. I mean, I've I've talked to you

(04:43):
about doing this for a while, but we've finally slid it in
there. How are you today?
I'm fine man. I I thought you weren't going to
happen for a long time. No, no, I mean it's do you know
what I hate about a podcast is book and guest like I wish you
guys would just sort it out amongst yourselves and I'd just
be like, who am I talking? I mean, I like talking to.

(05:05):
I mean, I don't have never had aguest that I didn't like talking
to. So I mean I.
Like talking to everybody. I don't believe that one.
Well, who do you think I didn't like talking?
To I don't know, but that's somebody you didn't enjoy.
There isn't, no. I wouldn't have them on the
podcast if I didn't enjoy it. That's.
Exactly why I've been here, Dave.
I know the bill. And here's the truth, if we're

(05:25):
being totally honest, if I didn't like a guest, it probably
would make a really good podcast.
It wasn't for me, I just shut the laptop.
Well, I mean, and that's the beauty of podcast too.
That too would make. I mean, if I just promo this
with you shutting the laptop andwalking away, everybody on earth
would watch. Wait while I set that up, Dave.

(05:50):
Somebody I'm going to start witha softball question for you.
Is your Yeah, it, well, not the sport, but just like an easy
one. And I've never asked you.
This is your name really, buddy?It really is, buddy.
I was born with that and my parents for some reason did not
want me to have a nickname. So set, I mean everybody I know
I like, I've told you that you and Buddy the elf 2 buddies I

(06:12):
know in my life and both good buddies.
Yeah buddy, they all slow. Skinnier than me though.
Well, yeah. Do you eat?
Do you eat? You put syrup on your spaghetti.
No, no, I don't do that. I've never tried that one.
No, no. And he's skinnier.
Weirdly. It's weird.
Yeah, well, I I have the same affliction, buddy, and I'd like

(06:34):
to look at it this way. If you were a bass, you'd be the
one people would want to catch. I still don't want everybody on
sketch sometimes. Yeah.
Been a while. So tell me when you did you have
a moment that stands out in yourmind that addicted like when you

(06:54):
said, hey, man, I got to figure out a way to do this, or was it
when you like when did you figure fishing was something
more than just what everybody else was experiencing for you?
You know, I I fished local for along time, like like it was as
good local. I mean, I was I was good local.
Sometimes I didn't actually thatboth tournaments or making

(07:14):
invitations and stuff. I mean, we we just fished at
home. I never left the Tennessee River
for the most part, and I was happy with that.
I mean, I was comfortable now good example.
I went back home and fished the CBA this weekend and got baked
by like 15 lbs by banks again. So they're them boys is catching
them, but it's because we're never at home anymore.
But but you know, I had a regular job, you know, most

(07:36):
times 12 hours a day working at a Body Shop for my in laws when
this happened and I went and fished some Toyotas just to get
out of town and fish some biggerstuff.
It was not intensely looking to try to make anything happen.
I but I got down there and I actually qualified for the FLW
tour and had a decision and talkto my family about it.
And ironically, right before I got ready to go, like I think my

(08:00):
or June, I actually wound up leaving The Body Shop, but
didn't start my FLW career as far as a pro until, you know,
January, February. So I had a lapse there or we
didn't know what we were going to do.
And my wife actually was the onethat says she's are you
qualified to fish? So why don't you try it And had
$5000 in the bank. So it's a kind of a crazy story.
We really had the money to go, didn't have the boat to go and

(08:21):
some, my Lord made a way. So how do you make that kind of
and how old are you at this timewhen you made that decision?
So I think I've been fishing professionally 11 years, 13
years, so 42 ish. Like with $5000 in the bank and
you're like, let's roll, put it all on black.

(08:42):
Yeah, Now let me just straight tell you now, I've made some
good money in my life and everybody around here thought I
was a spoiled kid, but I played hard, spent money like I
shouldn't have. I didn't think I'd live to be
50. I think it's kind of how I live
my life and not, not with bad stuff, but we, we did a lot of,
you know, dangerous sports, highspeed boats.
I mean, we did everything there is to do.
And, and, and unfortunately I was taught how to spend money

(09:05):
more than I was taught how to save money.
That was a bad thing. So what do you mean like a lot
of dangerous sports? Well, we had, I always had bass
boats that would run triple digits for the most part.
I mean, they'd run mid. I mean, like I'd run two people
94 miles an hour ready to go face a tournament.
So I mean, that's fast. Yeah, on a river.
I mean, like there's just a lot of stuff I look back on.

(09:25):
We did that. We've had off road buggies, you
know, the big 500 horsepower single seater all tube cage had
120 bolts in each time. And we've done we've done a lot
of fun stuff. I mean, like I have been AI
guess an adrenaline junkie my whole life.
So I always like to compete in something.
Have you ever seen that boat racing they do in Australia

(09:46):
where they're on like the? Course, yeah.
And then they come out of the banks and roll over and stuff.
Yeah, that'd be cool. That is the I mean, it's the
most insane but most awesome thing ever.
I. Like this little flat bottom
dealer doing now where you got to have a buddy gets on the
front and lays across it so it'll turn.
Have you seen that running through these bayous?
Yeah, yeah. Like John Bones, I'm all into
that stuff. My biggest fear is drowning.

(10:08):
But the most fun I have is on the water doing something crazy.
I missed the boat races the bassfishermen did.
Yeah, that I, I think it was before it's time.
Well, everybody don't know is isthat time of everybody was
trying to make faster and fasterboats.
They weren't worried about the creature comforts.
I mean, like you know, I grew upon *** Jack Lake mostly which is

(10:29):
between Chattanooga and Nashville say.
So you had oral bent to bring trout and down trying to outrun
us and I mean a bullet was in knots so that bring boats down.
So about 2/3 of our fishing tournaments was boat races as
much as it was fishing tournaments on the weekdays.
Tennessee does have a big like when you think about like the go
faster guys, they're a lot of them are from Tennessee.

(10:51):
I never thought about it like that, but is that because of
Earl Benz or is that like just? It wasn't just Earl Benz you had
Norris Craft was built in Tennessee.
You had Bullet was built in Tennessee, Allison Bolts was
built in Tennessee. Earl Benz built, you know that
you had Stratus nitra. I mean my mind just went blank.
The Triton. I mean, like there was just a
lot of boat manufacturers here. Bumblebee.

(11:12):
I mean, like this is just a hub for it.
I mean, you know, it was just a really good hub for performance
and these guys were a little ahead of their time.
I mean there's still boats around here now that are are
still 100 mile an hour boats andthere's nothing like the sound
of a 2.5 mercury sitting there like sound like a big block
Chevrolet Rd. in a parking lot. I mean it is awesome.
I mean, and I missed it. I mean, every night I look at
one, I'm like, man, I need that for a toy, but we don't have

(11:34):
time for toys with kids riding horses and fishing for like, I
mean, I think we're trying. I think I'm actually fishing 20
events out of town this year. So that's 20 weeks gone out of
52. Yeah, and then your daughter's
barrel racing all over the place, right?
She does and, and she relies on me to make some money when she's
not making. I mean she actually, I mean,
when she's racing, it's not for ribbons and trophies.
She's actually racing for money.So it's a it's a little business

(11:57):
of her own now. So all of a sudden her barrel
racing doesn't seem so like crazy to me.
Like when I hear about your past, I'm like, wow, barrel
racing. I mean, that's.
If I tried to put her in a buggytoday, she wouldn't get in one.
I don't think she would. But she's had some very scary

(12:18):
mishaps on horses. I mean, I've, I've had to watch
my daughter slung around like a rag doll and that's not fun to
watch. But she climbed right back on.
Do you ride horses? I have now, she'll tell you I
don't ride because you feel remember I came to my first
Bassmaster Classic in one of those scooters because I got on
her horse and, and back then shewas still a small child and she
had small stirrups. My foot was coming out of

(12:38):
stirrups. I was going to be smart and jump
off before I fell off. And when I jumped off, I twisted
my ankle right before we left the class the day before we left
for the class. So I try not to get on one now
so I don't have to experience not being able to go face and
try to make some money. Yeah, my sister was a big

(12:59):
equestrian rider growing up and I hate, I mean, I just don't
trust horses. I don't, I mean, and she would
make fun of me all the time. And I'm like, I'm much better
with horsepower than just one individual horse that just.
I'm going to tell you it's something with its own brain and
it weighs 1300 lbs. I mean, they're, they're solid
muscle. I mean there's if they want to
throw you or hurt you, they can't in a hurry.

(13:20):
Yeah, so let's go back. So you had $5000 in the bank and
said I'm going to be the I'm, I'm going to join the tour.
And from the outside to me as a fan, it felt like things went
real good, like pretty quick foryou.
Am I reading that right or wrong?
Well, it, it, it took a while during the season and it's

(13:42):
something to something that we don't talk a whole lot about.
And I'm I'm going to spill the beans of you.
I never faced as a Co angler in my life.
I never fished small baits in mylife.
I mean like I fished tournaments, had to have 5 fish
at the end of the day, most of them one day events.
So everything I threw was the size of a tennis shoe.

(14:02):
So when I went to the lake, I mean to the tour, Michael nails
my buddy and Michael actually showed me what a drop shot was
maybe the day before I left. I didn't know what a wacky worm
was, I didn't know what a swim jiggle.
I can go on and on and on. I mean like I had never
experienced the things that a man needs to be prepared to come
to the lakes or the any tour. Level to fish for points in

(14:23):
general. I mean you.
Just fish for wins. I never even I mean I watched
Bassmaster, do not get me wrong,I'll never I mean the steal the
Bob Cobb days. I mean I remember it like it was
yesterday when I was a kid kid. But once I become an angler that
was competing, I didn't like watching.
I was a participant instead of awatcher, if that makes any sense
at all. So but my fishing partner, team

(14:44):
partner now he was in he was in tune to everything that
happened. Hey, every time a bait come out,
y'all want something? I mean, he'd he'd fill me in and
I'd be skeptical till he beat mewith it.
But we, you know, even even then, I can tell you I might
have been two years in before I ever throw a wacky worm.
And now wacky worms always tied on in my boat because I need to

(15:05):
keep, you know, there's just so many things I didn't know that
these kids now that are coming in, they've watched everything
that we've taught them for the, for me, you know, for the last
10 years. And now I'm competing against
them. I mean, and they are, they're
already dialed in when they get here.
So it was a curve for me. And I got there and didn't get a
check. I'm talking about I stayed like
around 100. But back then I remember we had

(15:26):
200 in the FLW court. So I was about a 50% guy.
But at a 50% guy back then, you still weren't getting paid.
So we invited all the way through the season till we went
to Beaver, which is about four tournaments in before I got my
first check, maybe 5, but I got a check.
Barely missed the first cut, butI got a check.
Well, maybe I think I stood you wrong.

(15:48):
I think I missed the cut. Didn't get a check by an answer
to like I was the first guy out.Next time was Kentucky.
Like I got a check that made it to where I go to Pickwick and I
made it to Pickwick and that wasmy last time.
We had enough money just to fishPickwick and I probably wouldn't
made it past Pickwick and we winit and that all that did is pay
back everything that we've been living off of.
You know, I'm saying. So that got us back to square

(16:10):
one. And then it it did get better.
We started getting checks in thetournaments.
Then I want another one. But you know, until the last
couple years, we'd won one everyyear, every other year pretty
much. I mean, and that that's a big
deal. I mean, like when you win one,
that sets it up for the next year and it let's make face more
comfortable. So my performance lately has
been several things in my opinion.

(16:30):
I mean like Bella two years ago getting really competitive about
this deal and, and being a she just turned 16 this year, so she
is 14/13/14 and I want to spend time with her as much as I could
when I was home. So I didn't face as much as I
did and it it shows about the time live really took off.
I was doing something else besides trying to learn it.

(16:50):
And, and I'm paying for that right now and in the last three
years. So I don't regret it though.
I mean, I've only got one shot with my kid, so I don't like
being behind and I'm pretty muchknown to be good with
electronics and I'm good with that thing to a certain point.
But these boys shaking the minute has got me whooped.
I'm not real good with the minute.

(17:10):
But anything else as far as throwing at a target, hitting
the target, shaking it on the bottom.
I'm if they're on the bottom right, I'll catch them.
But but that suspended deal still got me and it bothers me
the most because I was the firstone to figure out how to catch
the suspended on the, you know, the, the, for a better word, the
scrounger. I mean, that scrounger may make
tons of money at home. And even when I got on tour, I
mean, that was what we caught him on for years and kept a

(17:32):
secret. We kept that thing a secret for
five or six years. And all I did was learn how to
count it down and catch them where they were sat there kind
of recuperate. But I always caught them off the
ledge. Now that stuff out in the middle
of nowhere I could have never done.
But we, we were catching fish everybody else couldn't catch
for a long time before. And and that's what these guys
have done. Now these young guys have
figured out how to catch the ones that everybody else can't
catch. And I'm a little bit jealous.

(17:54):
I ain't a lot. Well, but I think what you
explained too is the truth aboutlife in any you know, that that
that moment of time where you have no responsibility but just
to catch a fish, just to stay ontop of the fish.
That's AI mean. It's the irony of life, because
I think that when you're in thatmoment, you keep thinking about,

(18:14):
man, I I want my life together and I want to have kids and I
want to have, you know what I mean?
Like you're thinking ahead and then when you have kids, as much
as you love it, you're like, man, I hate him being pulled
away from the water. But I think that's the same in
in a lot of jobs. But it really stands out in
fishing. Is there any way to combat that?

(18:35):
Get back after it. That's it.
That's the only way you can do it.
And, and, and again, you know, my daughter looks like she's
graduated 2 years early. She's graduated this summer.
Now she went, we started homeschooling hers.
So I'm changing my focus. I'm coming back to fishing.
If I want to stay, I got to, I have no choice.
And I'm going to be on the bubble.
I'll be a bubble boy this year at the lakes.
Don't like that feeling at all. I need to pick up the pace.

(18:57):
I had my worst finish ever at 10killer the other day.
I've never finished that bad that I ever weighed my fish in
for every day. So that was humbling.
That was something I don't even want to talk about.
It was that bad. But I mean, it happens.
And I didn't believe in slumps. But I can tell you one thing, I
I still believe I created my slump.
I don't think it was something that just happens.

(19:18):
I think I just got LAX and I'm reaping what I sow.
But just thinking like that, does that not make it better?
I mean, if you're, if you were in a situation, because I've
talked to many people who are inIslam, I've talked to people
when they're here and I'm here and sometimes it's the same
person at different times in their life.
But there's times when I talk topeople where they're in that

(19:38):
slump and they're like, I don't know.
I don't know why it's not working.
I just can't, you know, it's just not happening.
But just you identifying it I would think.
I mean any problem identifying that problem helps you get out
of it quicker. Do you feel that way?
Yes and no. Here's the next problem, Owen.

(20:00):
And we're getting real a little bit.
But this is my only income, you know, my, my father's passed
away. My mother's, you know, she's
worked her whole life. I mean, there ain't no money in
my family. I mean, it's all sweat and tears
here, Bubba. So when you ain't making money,
it's hard. And that puts the strain on, you
know. Family tries to do all they can
do, but when the bills need to be paid and people's knocking on

(20:21):
the doors and the wolves are biting, they're looking at you
to pay the bills. So that's when it really gets
hard. Yeah, that's the injustice of
pro fishing. I've always said that, you know,
that it's unfair. I mean, I always use the analogy
of like, if you, if you make, ifyou're a pro baseball player and

(20:43):
you're making league minimum, guess what?
You're still probably making more than most of the people you
went to high school with or wentto college with whatever.
And you don't think about that money when you're pitching.
Even if you're pitching against the guy who's making the most in
the league, the last thing you're thinking of is, man, I

(21:03):
need to pitch this right so I have gas money to drive home
from this game. But.
People don't think about that. That's some serious pressure.
That's way more pressure than catching a face.
Yeah. Just it changes everything that
I do. It changes the swinging for the
fence or the fishing. Like I want to power fishing
with a big bait or a big plug orAGI mean like when I pick up a

(21:24):
wacky worm, start skipping dockstrying to get a check and then I
still finish 70th, though. That's rough.
And then when you hang up or youway you finish and you step off
stage, the first phone calls your wife.
She says, now what are we going to die?
I mean that's a rough call and it's been that way for two
years. But you know, we've cashed more
this year than I did all last year, maybe 2 years combined.

(21:45):
So and it's not been good. We've not won one.
We've had a couple of top 10s, but I mean it's we've had some
opportunities this year at fork.I led the first day.
You know, I just, there's some circumstances, but it still lets
me know I can still catch them. I just got to get better doing
what I do, what I need to do whenever it gets.
Most of my stuff this year has been like one or two spots and

(22:05):
you can't do it with these guys.You got to be able to roll and
keep carrying this thing throughwith more spots or more fish or
however you want to look at it. But you know, 2 times this year
my place got blown out and when it gets blown out, if you ain't
got nothing else, you got to scramble on.
The scramble don't work too goodfor me.
Today's high tech fishing world can be a real pain in the neck,
especially if you're running thewrong mount.

(22:27):
Beat Down Outdoors. They bring the graph to you and
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Now back to the show. Yeah.
And and it's scrambling in itself gets so much harder when
you are in a situation where youfeel like it's.
I mean, if you think about what you explained about when you

(22:49):
started in the FLW tour, it's the same thing in a different
situation. But you had to adapt and learn
how to point fish, so to speak. And I think that from the
outside, I think that's one of the things that people don't pay
attention to tour level pros andand even myself, I was guilty of
it for a long time. Where?

(23:09):
Because guys like to throw the term around swinging for the
fence and stuff, but it's so rare that you actually can do
that on a tour because you can'tgo a day without catching them.
No. And and what I've noticed too,
when I first started this deal, 1314 lbs a day was check line.
Now it's fifteen. 1617 lbs a dayis a check line.

(23:30):
And fishing ain't getting better.
The anglers are getting better. That's the deal.
I mean it is. They're just getting better at
their skills and even the older guys is having to get better and
you see some unclimb and see sometimes we fall, but it's it
seems to be the younger guys aredoing better.
But I do believe it's what we'retalking about.
It's a lot because they're just that's all they got.
That's all they're doing in lifeat home spreads things out no

(23:53):
matter what anybody thinks. And as older they get, maybe
that changes. But I mean, a career angler, may
the future may be that they focus on fishing and not life
outside of that. And then there's nothing wrong
with that. It's just I wasn't set up when I
started. My daughter's already here.
I mean, like it was just, you know, when it does, we wasn't a
lot of planning going on when I did it, it was by the seat of

(24:16):
our pants and we made it work. But it was and it was and it
still is stuff. And I think the biggest thing
that I see, and I'm not envious,but the guys that did really
good with social media, those are the guys are like you're
talking about the baseball guys already got a check.
You know, I'm trying to say those guys are the ones that are
going to be sustainable in the end of this deal is you've got

(24:37):
to have other income besides cashing checks.
But I was always so good at making my money with my fishing
pole and I thought it would lastforever and it didn't.
And I wasn't set up in a good position to do.
You know, I ironically, I took afriend of mine who is got some
customers. He wanted to take fish and I
took him yesterday and ironically, we sit there at

(24:58):
lunch and talked about a little bit and I said I wish I'd done
better. My social media.
That's like, dude, everything that you've talked to us about
on this boat, that's what everybody wants to hear.
So all you got is put cameras up, get somebody put down there
that you've got it. You just got to do it.
I'm about it that way till yesterday.
That happened yesterday. So you know, we may, you know,
I'm going to be the real guy andI can't.
I ain't funny or nothing else, but I'll talk to you about

(25:20):
fishing and share what I know because my daughter don't care
about it and I have nobody leaveit to.
So I might be the guy that educates everybody from now on.
I don't know what I'm going to do, but I got to get better if
I'm going to stay in it. We have got to get better at
doing something to make money outside of cashing checks.
Yeah, I I think the key with social media and in my opinion
is just it's simple, just freaking do it.

(25:42):
Just do and, and people spend I mean, I'm guilty of it myself.
This podcast, I mean, it's been around now.
I think this is our fifth season, but I thought about it
for three, Four Seasons before that.
And you know, my only regret nowis like, why didn't that start
it sooner? And and I feel that is the way
in all of social media. And I think people spend so much

(26:04):
time thinking of like, I got to do something different or I got
to figure it out how to get it. But ultimately, the most
successful social media stuff isjust people who are being real
and it doesn't matter. You know, not everybody can be
Gerald Swindle. Not everybody can be Takumi.

(26:25):
Not everybody. But but if you look at Takumi
and you've heard me say this in meetings, I use him as example
because he has every single reason to fail.
I mean, he doesn't speak the same.
Like I could not imagine. Like if you think social media
is tough here, imagine how tough.
I mean, I'm pretty decent communicator.
I'd have a really hard time in Japan.

(26:47):
And we stayed at my house first year we were on tour.
He stayed there for a few days and, and just those guys are so
much, they have so many different techniques that we've
never seen. I enjoy just talking to him.
And the boy is full of knowledgethat we have no idea even exists
yet. And it's just because of the
cultures and high pressure and, and I still think, you know,

(27:09):
those guys, Japanese, they, theyreally excelled before these
younger guys started coming on tour because they were spending
all their time on the lake. But now these guys have spent
the time here before and now. So, you know, I still think
that's the order of these young kids than the Japanese, than us
that are took it for granted a little bit.
But even that people that pollenit pollen, it's so good to hear
on his stuff, man. Like there's just great guys in

(27:30):
our deal. Yeah, I wonder how much of it
is. I mean, it's easy to say that I
don't think you guys took it forgranted, but I wonder how much
of it is the sport evolving? Because I look at other sports
and I feel like I've heard the same story.
Like years ago I, you know, did one of those pro AM deals and I

(27:54):
fished with a guy named Steve Larmer, who played in the NHL at
the time and he had won a Stanley Cup and he played a lot
of his career with the Rangers. That's where he won his Cup and
the Blackhawks. And I mean, he had a great
career. He was the Iron Man.
Never missed games for had the Imight still have the record, but
I remember him saying to me, theNHL is not as much fun as it

(28:15):
used to be when we finished. And I'm just like, how can you
say that? And he said, wow, these kids, he
said, these kids are changing it.
He said these, he said, we used to show up to training camp to
get in shape. We'd spend all summer having fun
and then we'd show up and we'd lose some weight and we'd get in
shape. And by the time the season
started, you were ready to go. He says, well, now these kids,

(28:36):
they work out all summer long. They show up in peak shape.
They kick our asses at in training camp because we're out
of shape. And he goes, that's just not the
NHL that I'm used to being part of.
And when you look at it in thoseterms, you're like, well, that's
kind of the sport evolving. Is the same thing happening in

(28:56):
fishing? 100% these boys are doing,
they're, they're doing a 365 dayfishing deal and where you know,
and, and I, I, I love the hunts,don't get me wrong, but I don't
fish to hunt and, and there's a lot of our guys at fish to hunt
and you lose months of preparation when you do that
hunt deal. I mean, that's a lot of time,
man, even in the summer. They're all starting right now,

(29:17):
I'm sure getting food plots ready and tree stand placement
ready. And you know, a lot of the guys
are doing that, though I've already made their career.
Unfortunately, I started late. You know, man, Davey aren't far
from the same age and but Davey was done by the time I got
started. So you know, I'm I'm behind, but
these kids have got a great future ahead of them.

(29:37):
They're going to have great times and they're great anglers.
I mean, like I told you, you know, Banks and Tucker and
Marks, I mean, I all of them, they're all just freaking
phenomenal fishermen. I don't think whatever happens
as far as electronics goes in this future, I think they're all
still going to be good. They're going to be spending the
time on lake learning their nextdeal, whatever that is.

(29:59):
I don't see, I don't think the faces are going to change.
But us guys that did not prep for this life are suffering
right now. That's fact and that's
self-inflicted. That's all it is.
So how are you prepping to recover from that?
Are you spending a lot of time? I don't, I really don't know.

(30:23):
I mean, like I, I'm, I'm using it, I, I seem to face better
without it because I'm still theguy that has not not necessarily
fishing on history, but just where I think they ought to be
and I can't, you can't divide this deal.
If you're going to go in, you got to go in.
It's not much different than anything else.
You guys got to get in or out and I'm just still not chose to

(30:45):
be 100% in. I chose to be 100% in 10 killer
and then I went to the bank. So there you go.
You still got to be able to makegood decisions and I used to be
really good at making decisions,but that threw another curve
into it. So I'm I'm still just behind.
I'm not going to tell you. I'm I promise you, though, that
I've been in the boat with some of the best.
And as far as I don't care if it's 80 feet away first cast,

(31:06):
I'll hit him in the head. I don't have a problem with
that. Part of it making them bite when
they don't want to bite. That is part of it.
Or knowing when to quit or knowing when to follow.
And you know, I mean like Trey, Trey caught the one that has a
jerk bite in his mouth later with a jerk.
But you know what I'm saying? I mean, like, dude, I wouldn't
even chase that fish back in theday.
I would have said, hey, that thing ain't going to bite again.
I mean, like, that's kind of thementality I grew up with.

(31:29):
Well, now we know that they willbite again.
Even with the places of hardwarein her mouth.
I mean, he probably couldn't even open his mouth and still
eat it, you know what I mean? I mean, that gets crazy.
So these guys are teaching me stuff.
I mean, I just my lessons are more expensive now.
That's what me and wife talk about all the time when I leave.
I thought I learned something today.
She's just, I'm glad she says it's expensive and she ain't

(31:50):
lying. I mean, it is expensive lessons.
We're back. If I'd learned it the way they
got to learn it, it wouldn't been there as expensive.
But again, it is. It's evolving.
You said it the best of anybody I've heard say it is evolving
and it's not going to stop evolving.
It's going to keep going to where this is the deal.
I mean, if you're going to be a fisherman, you got to be a

(32:11):
fisherman. That's where it's headed.
I mean, you're going to have to fish every time that you can.
I mean, whatever that number is,if it's 300 days a year or 365
days a year, you're going to have to either get all in or
step back and kind of suffer theride.
I mean, that's just basically what I think about it.
Yeah, I mean, you mentioned it. It's funny because you mentioned

(32:33):
Paul Marx and the list of anglers who were throwing out
there. And I, I just ironically had
text been texting with him aboutsomething yesterday.
And I mean, I don't think peoplerealize just, I mean, we've got
a bit of a lull in the elite series now, but he just finished
fishing an event on Champlain. He's now in in Thousand Islands

(32:54):
just for a week. Just I mean, we don't have a
tournament coming up there, But I mean, I'm sure he knows
there's going to be one in the future, But he's there.
He's coming to Canada like the fish Simcoe for a few days said
like, like he's literally livingand that's hard.
I mean that's I mean, and any and it's weird because it's
fishing and people don't want tothink about it like that, but

(33:16):
dude, I mean, if Bellas world, Imean the girl that rides the
horses the most, the girl that trains every day generally does
pretty good, right, That's. Exactly right.
I mean, and you think about thisthough, just think about what
that trips cost him. So you just told me 3 weeks
minimum is there might be 4 weeks.
Somebody like me who's got a family to raise got monthly

(33:37):
bills and I ain't cashing checks.
I can't go do that. That's the bad thing.
This is a bad catch right here and you're learning it.
I mean you're speaking it, talking it.
I want to go sometimes I can't go.
That's another problem. I mean I and I'm I'm being real.
Everybody thinks because you're pro fish when you got it made
and they just I mean like they're throwing stuff at you.
I mean it, you know, free boats and free trucks and free tires.

(34:01):
I mean, we only talk about the fuel, the tires, the brakes.
I mean, like, dude, it is amazing what it cost if you
really break it down and it's not really a great business
decision for me, but I have a passion and I love it and and
this is the only place I can compete like this.
I mean, when you grow up playingevery sport there is, once
you're out of college or go, yougot to go pro somewhere.

(34:22):
I was, I was tired of ball playing every sport there was to
play. But basketball, white man can't
jump. That's me.
Everything else I could do. I mean, I was just playing with
us and I was a good athlete and then I didn't have nowhere to
put it. So I found fishing and that's
where it went. And man, I love it.
I'm not, I'm not kidding. I love it.
I think I lost that little eye of the Tiger deal.
Whenever we really need to bear down and, you know, I just kind

(34:44):
of sliding by. But I'm tired of sliding by and
and, you know, I just got to figure it out.
I don't like all the controversywe've had in the sport.
I wish we could get rid of it. I just want somebody tell me the
rules, let me show up, go play ball.
That's all. That's what I want to do with
her. If I don't like it, find
somewhere else to play. But we just got too much
controversy and, and I don't think it's the kids.

(35:06):
I think the kids are making it harder on the guys that ain't
doing good because that's they're the foul guy.
But it's not their fault. They're doing their job.
We just got to do a better job. So why?
Why do you think we have so muchcontroversy?
Honestly, I don't like, I think we, I think, oh, I'm facing in
trouble by some of my peers probably, but I don't like

(35:27):
voting on nothing. I mean, I, I, I don't like it if
we're not getting treated correctly, but I don't like the
vote stuff and and I'm not the only one.
But look, if if I go get me a Coca-Cola and I don't like a
taste of it, they're not going to let me walk in there and tell
them, Hey, I want you to change the taste of the same because it
just don't fit me. I just think we need fire rules
and if we want to fight for something, we need to be

(35:49):
fighting for it to pay better. I mean, not necessarily out of
basketball. We got to figure out some way to
make it like the pro ball players, like you said.
Well, this don't happen to anybody in the future.
Kind of like what's happening tome right now.
I mean, like, you can be the greatest angler ever, but if you
have a bad year or a bad financial decision, you're done.
You don't need to be that way. We need to figure out somewhere

(36:10):
in the future this needs to be apaying gig because you can call
us pro hangers, but really all we're doing is throwing our
money apart, going fishing. And that's why I was in, again,
a sore subject. I like that whole deal with the
zero entry fee. I thought that was the greatest
thing ever, even though the payouts were worse and I'd be
suffering. Yes, I'd be suffering, but it
had to start somewhere. I just don't like paying
entropy. If we're going to be called a

(36:31):
professional sport. I don't.
I mean, nobody else does that. I'd love to have some of that
money for two or three years like the golf guys, mate.
I mean, Can you imagine how everybody will be smiling?
I love it. Everybody will be smiling and
saying. And, and that being said, I'd
love it too. I mean, I think Bassetlaw, I
mean, you know what, the guy that does my job and and the PGA

(36:53):
gets paid. I mean, it's, it's everything
gets. I think that the goal always
should be to be bigger and better every single year in
anything you do in life. Like, but I agree with you on
the votes. I've always said voting is a
good way to make sure half the room feels like they lost.
Like if, if if I go in, if I have you over for pizza, buddy,

(37:17):
and I say we're having pizza, you'll be like, oh, this is
great. Dave had all the anglers over
for pizza. But if I say hey guys, who wants
cheese and pepperoni and who wants meat lovers?
And if the cheese and if the meat lovers wins cheese and
pepperoni, people are going to be like ah this pizza was good
but damn I really wanted my cheese and pepperoni.
It's just human nature. If you're going to vote on

(37:38):
something to vote what you want.And it just divides our field
when we do that. That's the part I don't like is
the vision it creates. Just like you're saying it just
no matter whether you're right or wrong, because everybody's
opinion and and everybody's voteis for a different circumstance.
I mean like just because I vote this way, maybe because I'm
trying to help my family and they vote the other way cuz
they're trying to help their family.
They don't make them right or wrong.

(37:59):
Yeah. It just, it just creates
division. I don't like the division.
I don't like a lot of controversy.
But I'm telling you, when I first came over to the late, I
have never been happier in my life.
I mean, it was the greatest thing since sliced bread and and
it was good the next year and the next year.
But now we just got a lot of stuff that's, I don't know, I

(38:20):
just can say the division, feel the division, even the young
kids, you can see them group up together.
And I mean, I don't try to get in any of them.
But it's, I just like to say it's all happy to be able to go
fish for a life. And that's, that's awesome that
we get to do that. And the golf deal is a closest
thing to it. I mean, they have spectators
walk around the holes and 18 holes, but most of their money's
coming from production and TV. Why I got it figured.

(38:42):
So if we do a good job, I mean, we could get on that kind of
viewing level. I think I just, I'm not smart
enough to tell you how, but I dothink somebody is smart enough
to figure it out. We just haven't figured it out
yet. I know it's been tried, but you
got to think, I mean, I mean competition golf, what, early 18
or mid 1800s probably, I'm guessing 19, yeah.

(39:04):
I mean, it's much older sport. Yeah, Ray Scott What?
19 What? 60 years in basically and
they're 100 and something. Yeah, they've had almost double
the time to figure some stuff out.
Not not in technology wise, but I'm just saying that you know
that that thing has had a big falling in in this year by
thanks. Golf's expensive, but which is

(39:26):
not compared to fishing. But I mean, like it might be a
little easier, but everybody likes to fish at some point in
time. Somebody's always had a rod real
in their hand and it brings backmemories.
So I don't know. We just got to be better.
If we did better at our jobs as anglers and not created this
little division that we got going on now, it would have
helped our sport more too. I just think I do see fans talk

(39:51):
about y'all are crying and complaining about all this and
you're a professional anger. But again, they don't realize
how tight the money is in the sport and how many people are
going after the dollars that areindustry sponsors.
I mean, I'm at high school, college, you know, now you got
mid level pros. I don't know how you want to
call that, but I mean like. The the Toyota sizes, I mean,
like there's just a lot of anglers fighting for that money

(40:15):
that these other sports don't have too.
And I think high school fishing,college fishing is great, but I
don't know that it should have dug into the professional side
budget. And we talked about this, but
Youtubers and, and all the podcasts and all the Instagram
guys that are even getting into that money now and not doing
what we're doing. I mean, back in the day when it
was a magazine, they didn't see all of it except in the

(40:37):
magazine. You know, I'm trying to say, I
mean, it's, there's a lot of stuff that's drugged the money
out of fishing and put it in 1000 more places, the pies got
bigger. Maybe it's a better way to put
it, but. Yeah.
And I've tried to stay outside of the industry to try to do the
non endemic sponsors and you cankeep them for a year or two, but
then they decide they're going to do something different.
It don't last long. It's not they don't stick like

(40:57):
it should. So and I can see bias having the
same issues. Yeah, it's well, and that's been
my biggest beef about any of thecontroversy or whatever you want
to call it, The division. I've always said I'm like, if
you're the guy from Gillette or you're the guy from whatever,

(41:18):
you're the guy from Steel chainsaws and you say, Hey, I
want to get let let we're looking.
We I got budget. Let's look at a sport to get
into. And if you looking pro fishing
right now, the first two things you come across is whites and
walleye. And you know, this forward

(41:40):
facing sonar controversy or whatyou, you know, the, it's just,
it's not. And, and meanwhile, when I spend
time with everybody, I'm like, this is such a, there's so many
great families and it's so wholesome and there's so much
goodness to it. But I think it's a kind of a
version of what you explained atthe beginning.
Like when money troubles, my momused to say growing up, when

(42:03):
poverty flies in the window, love goes out the door.
And, and I feel like in some ways, just like you talked about
earlier, that's also what's happening in sport.
Like it's more aggressive now. You mentioned Davey Hyde.
Davey Hyde had a great, incredible Hall of Fame career.

(42:23):
He didn't have the same number of pros he was competing
against. And I don't mean just like on
the water, I mean sponsorship wise.
Like I mean there was the guys at Bass or was that filled up?
And now you got multiple leagues, multiple layer, like
there's so many layers and that the YouTube things happen in
every, I mean, even in golf, like you got people like good,
good golf and stuff like that. If you look at them and now the

(42:46):
pros are starting to do stuff with all those Youtubers in golf
because they've got a different audience.
I mean, it's it's a different time.
It is, it is and it's and it's atime where people my age were
never. I'm just, I never ever watched
YouTube videos much, I mean, until lately.

(43:07):
I mean like in the last two or three years, I mean, like the
guys that are, I'm almost say like the 30 fives and back,
Those are the guys that are actually going to thrive.
And then it's, it should be, butthose are the guys that are
actually able to diversify faster than what some of us are.
And, and I want to be again, I just, it's, it's my fault.

(43:29):
I mean, I'm taking the credit orI'm taking the blame for it
because I didn't do a good job, but I knew it.
It's like you, your New Year's podcast, wish you'd done it two
or three years sooner. I wish I'd done stuff two or
three years sooner. But it the older we get, the
faster a year goes by, You think, well, I'll do it later
this year. What heck, later this year is a
day and a half later and you're gone.
I mean, like it's just happens fast.
I mean, time flies. Yeah, that is the truth.

(43:50):
That is the truth. Aveco not only makes incredible
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With their 10% pledge, Aveco andthe Shed family donate at least
10% of the company's profits to conservation and making fishing
better. Now back to the show.
What's your favorite part about this sport?
Like what? What?
What moments do you love? I like catching them.

(44:13):
I like feeling the bot. I mean the bots.
The best thing for me if I'm there's nothing like setting a
hook on a face with 60 feet of line out and then you don't move
when you pull, when you set the you set the hook and it comes
towards you. It's not very big when you sit
the hook and you go look that. Yeah.
I mean, that is the greatest feeling ever.
And I got to experience a littlebit this week.
I mean, it's the bites, the deal.

(44:34):
I mean, to be honest with you, the bites, the Dixon.
And you can't wait to get another one out.
You know, I'm so out of shape right now.
If I catch 10 in a row, son, I'mbreathing heavy.
That's pretty awesome. It the bite is the addiction.
You're right. Do steroids.
Is is is turn do tournaments. Just put that bite on steroids.

(44:59):
Like not from, you know, when I first came, yes, but now I'm
comfortable. I mean, like there was a day
when I couldn't even. And this is probably why I never
fished for a living. This and some of the people that
are watching this podcast has known me for a long time.
If I fished A BFL, now get your mind, it's the BFL, I would go
to the bathroom three times between the house and the boat

(45:19):
rent on the side of the road andI puked twice.
I mean, like it was bad, like mynerves could not handle it.
And I don't know, I woke up one day and it could handle it.
And that's the really the reasonI started doing this because I
don't ever went and fished the Toyota or coasters, whatever it
was back in the day if I hadn't got over that, but I did.
And I'm talking about that when I say sick.
Like I remember the blast off one time at a BFLI was sitting

(45:40):
in the bottom of the boat, pick my guy up and I laid there
curled up almost in a ball and fatal position.
Like dude, as soon as they call our number I'll get up and we'll
go. And we did and I was still sick
and the first few cast I made I like jumped off.
I never will forget it. They're still blasting off boats
at Guntersville State Park and Iwent to a place right over there
close close by. We can hear him still calling

(46:01):
numbers and I already jumped on and off 25 lbs of bias.
My Co anger felt so bad about it.
He started throwing over me his lines getting home from my
glasses and my hat and my ear. I mean, like he was tore up
because he couldn't reach them and I was letting them off.
I mean, like, I mean like back in the day I was just too
nervous. Whatever.

(46:21):
But now, no, I'm, I'm good. I'm, I mean, as soon as it
starts, the best thing that everhappens was the boat ride.
The boat ride really calms me down in the mornings.
That cool air in your face, no matter if it's 90° that day,
it's still going to be cold thatmorning.
That cool air calms me down and gets me in a position where I
know it's time to go to work. And I love it.
Though I'm not allowed to. I do love, I love my job.
I probably take a picture of thesunrise at least once per

(46:43):
tournament. I mean, you, you see things that
people never get to see. And I'll tell you another thing
that we get to see nobody thinksabout.
We're getting to say some of themost elaborate houses across the
country. I mean, just, I mean, the word
we're fishing for pennies and these people got millions in
these houses. I mean, it kind of sucks when
you go to the lake and you see $1,000,000 houses on every

(47:04):
point. You know, I mean, it's a but,
but we're blessed. I mean, every angler on a tour,
I don't care what tour it is, we're blessed and we're blessed
because we get to live somethingwe love.
I mean, it's a we can all be winners or only one winner per
tournament. We all want to win.
We all pray about winning. But but this timing and I had my

(47:25):
time and I think my time will come again.
The irony is when you're lookingup at that house thinking, look
at that dude. I mean, there, I bet you there's
been a lot of times where there's a dude in that house
looking out and being like, lookat that dude.
I. Mean.
Fishes for a living, doesn't have to deal with the Stock
Exchange or whatever. That guy's doesn't have to go

(47:45):
perform heart surgery or whatever.
The dude that lives in that house does.
We all take whatever we got for granted and it it's just human
nature and it but I've been blessed to travel with a bunch
of people that have their own businesses, whether it's been
the MPFL, bias, FLW, whatever. I've traveled with some really
cool guys and they all want thisbad.

(48:07):
And I'm thinking, golly, if I had a business you got this
would just be a second thought. I'd I'd pay me to take me
fishing and forget this. I'll be back over working that
business, but they want to be here, you're right.
I mean those guys that are very successful in what they've done
would love to have what we got, but we're all put here for
something and I reckon this is my deal.
So is it better for you to have a longer boat ride if that if

(48:31):
that chills you out, like if youfind it real close, is that a
negative for you? It depends on how rough it is we
go. That's a good answer if it's.
If it's rough, I'm dreading it, but not really.
And truly, I really do like a little bit of a boat ride, not
not long run long, just just enough.
It don't take long, but I mean, I've always seemed like I've

(48:51):
always got a 10 minute ride. But those, those rides, like I
say, these guys making Saint Lawrence from Waddington to the
lake. I, I still don't do that much,
but that light stuff scares me death.
You guys that grew up on the biglakes, golly.
I mean, like, I've been on the water my whole life, but it's
been a river about 150 yards wide, most of it, you know?
Yeah, yeah, it is different. It's it's such a, but it, it's,

(49:16):
it's something you got to do a bunch until you get comfortable
with being somewhere where you can't see shore ahead of you,
you can't see shore behind. Like, I mean, I think back and
I'm like, how did we ever do this without GPS and everything
like it is. I don't know how you did I I can
tell you like and I did go out in a big like last year or two,
but the only sucky thing out there for a guy like me, when

(49:39):
you really get to catching them,I get seasick soon as I get the
bottom of the boat. It's terrible.
And and I I loved it when Corey got sick.
I mean, that was the coolest thing ever.
I was like, hey, that guy lives out there and he got sick.
You know, maybe I'm not the onlyone.
But like when I get crazy, I head back because I mean, I
can't function. I'm a Sissy.
If it comes to that feeling likethat, then I'm out.
So I have to catch him in a hurry before I get sick if I'm

(50:02):
going out there. But after fishing Admiral Sound
this year or whenever it was this year, Yeah, my years.
But that was rough. When I tell you that was rough,
I mean like the Great Lakes can get revelations are spread apart
a little bit over there. Them jokers is on top of each
other. So I don't know.
I I really enjoy northern swings.
I wish we did more of it. It is a lot of fun catching

(50:24):
those fish up there. They bite and I'm way behind on
him. I never caught small mouth like
that until I started facing on the door.
Wow, see, and that's that's explains the difference to like
how many you take all the rookies in the last two years
that have come in, they've all fished small mouth.
They've all but that's that's the impact that collegiate

(50:46):
fishing and high school fishing is having that nobody wants to
point like they everybody wants to point their finger at forward
faces sonar and I get it. Forward faces sonar is a topic
that no matter what stance you are on it, guess what?
You're wrong because because it's I mean, it's right and
wrong for everybody. You know what I mean?
Like everybody's feelings what it is.

(51:08):
But ultimately I think even if it went away, these kids have
been like you're talking about. You're like, you've had a very
successful tour career, both of the elites and FLW.
Multiple wins, both sides. You mean nobody would argue with
your career, but you showed up not knowing how to throw any
finesse stuff. You've done no small mouth stuff

(51:29):
until you were on tour. Like that's unheard of now.
Yeah, they don't happen. Now another thing that we didn't
talk about that I'm pretty impressed with these kids and
Gerald and I had this conversation very briefly.
So the network that these kids have, I'm I have AI mean I have
a network, but but the network these kids have that college

(51:50):
fish and high school they're they were never they were never
stingy with information either. They seem to share, they seem to
help each other. They lift each other up my
generation, if we had a sacred bite, I never showed it, I never
talked about it. And I give those kids a hard
time. I I really do ask how them kids
or men, but I'm, I really enjoy picking with them and messing

(52:11):
with them because I always kid them around and say, I know
y'all got a sacred bite and y'all ain't sharing.
What is it? What is it?
Now when I get close to one of them, they'll hide their bite
now just to mess with me, you know, so we have a good time.
I mean, I enjoy them. I like to learn, but but those
kids, I don't want those young men are sharing information
freely and helping each other and lifting them up.

(52:34):
And and that's kind of how life should be.
We should lift everybody up. But but our generation, if we
didn't do it on our own, we keptit a secret.
I mean it, it's just different. You're talking about evolving.
The people are evolving as much as the sports evolving and it's
making them all better. It's making it more watchable.
I mean, regardless, look at the fish they're catching now.

(52:56):
All of them, everybody's coming like the the fish catches are
unbelievable and and life has something to do with it, but it
also has to do with these guys are are are more rounded
anglers. They're sharing with each other.
I mean, like, I don't mind this to be bad with live.
I mean, you can fish beside eachother and not even throw at the
same fish. You know what I'm saying?
I mean, like before we're throwing out a spot.
I was raised on structure fish and that's what I do.

(53:19):
If I can find a rock pile or a brush pile or a legs with a
dipping, I mean, that's the stuff I'm throwing at.
And it's hard to share with you,buddy, but the other deal is
easy to share and that's what's making it a little easier.
Not easier, but a little more angler friendly I guess is
better. I'll put it.
Well, yeah, where you'll see, and I mean people, you, it was a

(53:40):
struck you, it was a piece of, you know, you guarded your piece
of territory in the past and nowthat they don't even look at it
like that in a lot of situations, you know what I
mean? Like that, you hear them talk
about how it actually makes it better if you have multiple
boats there because you keep theschool fired up and and things
like that are so different than so many people were used to in

(54:01):
the past. But could you?
Imagine though, that guys my age, with the knowledge that
they have, if they had the same mentality, what you could do.
So why haven't we seen that? Everybody's still scared of the
baiting that they took from somebody else's lied to them in
the past. That's the problem.
And these guys haven't had to experience that.

(54:22):
They haven't had their buddy tell them how I'm catching them
over here on a swim jig in threefoot of water, but they're
really fishing in 25 foot of water on brush piles off of, you
know what I'm trying to. It's happened to all the older
guys. I mean, everybody kept stuff
secret. Those guys haven't had to go
through that and and it's a goodthing.
I mean, that's why there's something positive about the
sport. It's going to make it more unity

(54:42):
in the end, I think. Yeah, yeah, that happens a lot.
More guys will steer you the wrong direction.
If you don't have a if you don'ttalk to a lot of people, they
won't. And that's another thing.
I don't talk to a lot of people on the end.
You can see it when you know thefirst day you're you miss them
in a second day, they jump back up, you know, have 10 more

(55:04):
pounds than had the day before. That's because most times it's
because somebody's got them in abetter direction.
And I'm not saying that's wrong.I'm just saying it don't work
for me. I can't.
Even if you tell me the best place in the lake and that's
where you're catching them, 9% time I'm on dodge that place.
But it's because I don't want tofeel like that guy.
Yeah. And I shouldn't be that way

(55:25):
because people do try to help you sometimes and you don't take
the help. It's your own fault.
And I've been there and sometimes people thought I held
out on them and I didn't. I mean it, Harris Chain.
And I've still got some people that have ill feels about me
when I want Harris Chain. But when I want Harris chain, I
was going to catch ME3 keepers off that first spot I stopped
on. I hoped I could catch their
keepers. I was going to go to Beauclair

(55:45):
and I was going to just DOB in the grass all day.
And if I got bit over there, I need to be a three to five
pounder. But I couldn't go catch five of
them. So I was going to stop and I
stopped on one place and that was a school rolled in there.
And I mean like I caught them. Had no idea I was going to catch
them. Started there the second day,
didn't get a bite there. That's how freaked out place
that was. Went two points over and caught

(56:06):
them again on the third day. I never got another bite there.
I mean it was one of them deals.It was just I, I was more proud
of that win than any win I've ever had because I had nothing
when I started and I made it during the tournament.
I'd never done that before everytime else but I've ever won one.
I knew where I was going. I knew what I was going to do
and I just had to make it happen.
That thing changed every day. And on the last day I found them
behind the boat on a Carolina rig.

(56:27):
Didn't throw a Carolina rig or none.
I mean like he was just I grew more in that tournament knowing
that you can go around and make it happen if you just put your
head down. I tried to do it before and
after and can't. I've never been successful again
but but it it can't happen. So you said some people are
still twisted all of I don't forget the analogy used about

(56:48):
you at what? What?
Like what? I don't.
I hadn't heard anything about. Why would they be?
Just closer friends that that thought that I had held
information back I was talking to and and look, once I figured
out the guys I was traveling with back then was Josh straight
and Josh had a bad first day. Second day I told him what I did
and he made it happen somewhere else on the lake and he almost
caught back up. I mean, so I figured it out

(57:11):
during the tournament, but it wasn't before the tournament.
I mean like it just happened andand they and like I told him I
was like, they might be in everyplace he did it too.
It was kind of the same deal. They'd move every day and he's
like, dude, I seen them here butI could never catch them.
And and I tried it on the 3rd or4th day and then I caught him
there, but I never got me. It was just a weird deal.
But somebody I have a lot of respect for in the industry
really thought that I had not told him the truth during

(57:33):
practice and now that was not the case.
That was one of the worst practices I ever had.
I went, I'll tell you how funny it was.
I was in banana Cove. Everybody knows I was island out
of banana Cove and I seen like 5or 6 dots and it looked like it
would look on the Tennessee river.
I was like, dude, that's bias. I I'll all way to the dead river
though, before I said, dude, youneed to go back see if that was
bias because I wouldn't I wrote it off.

(57:54):
I I all way to the dead river. You know how long that is if you
idle long ways. I I put in in Eustis that day.
So I was headed back towards theboat ramp.
I turned around, went right backover there and made 3 cast
caught 314 inches. That's it.
I was like, that's good. I can go right there and catch
me. A few keepers let him go to
Buckler. I stopped there that morning.

(58:14):
Banana Cove look like a look like a Walmart parking lot.
Boats everywhere. I mean, it was just boats
everywhere, but that place I want to fish was wide open and I
started casting and as soon as Istarted casting, I started
catching them and I was like, where did this come from?
By then? I'm not going to give up on it
and everybody saying it happened.
So I burned them pretty good. I caught 40 or 50 fish there

(58:35):
that day and probably shouldn't have done it, but I had no
choice. I wouldn't have got it the
second day and if I'd left it, somebody else would have been
catching them. So I caught them and then the
second day I started there and Ithink the third day, remember we
held up everybody 15, half the field to stay.
I was catching them at a different spot.
I'd already fished 2 spots before they got the blast off
and then had a bite. And I remember something

(58:55):
somebody was telling me that waswatching me on TV on the big
screen and catching them alreadyearly in the morning.
But it was somewhere I never fished during the tournament.
So our practice. So it was just one of those
deals where it happened as we win and, and sometimes it
happens that way. And all of our guys, I think
somebody told a story, but I don't think it's always that
way. I think all of our guys are so
good they can make it happen during the day.

(59:15):
Now, I do think there are still some that will steer you not in
the direction they're in, which is fine.
They don't owe me nothing and I don't owe them nothing really.
I mean, it's it's, it's an individual sport.
But the team deal seems to be a better way to go, I will tell
you that. Do you think there should be
something done to stop the team deal or do you just think that's
just part of it? I think that's just part of it.

(59:36):
You either going to have to get in on it and have trust and, and
who you're teaming with or, or, or just go along and and do it.
I mean, again, I still think theveterans of the sport is a
better way to put it. The veterans have a harder time
teaming up than the younger guysand I know why and it's just
because I feel like they've beenburnt before, but I think some

(59:58):
people think they've been burnt when they really hadn't been
burnt. Yeah, well, there there's been,
I mean, the the veteran team fail.
I mean, the whole time I've worked with the elites, there's
been teams that have happened. It's just been the last four or
five years where the teams have actually functioned and and made
an impact. Like in the past, it felt like

(01:00:20):
you'd see teams like, hey, there's these guys rooming
together and they're very, they're helping each other.
And it would seem like one dude would do real well and the other
two wouldn't. And guess what?
That is the perfect recipe for ateam to, yeah, explode.
But, but I think now a lot of it's with my phone.
I mean, even if you're not staying with them, it's probably
I'm a guest and there's a handful of people talking to 10

(01:00:41):
or more people per tournament and they can piece and pieces
together and make it work for him.
I've just never been that guy. I just kind of got to do my
thing and, and in the last few tournaments I've been doing
better. That's what I've done.
I've gone back to doing what I do.
I idle more. I, you know, I used to idle at
least a day, maybe a day and a half a full idle just to try to
find where I wanted to fish. And I quit doing it.
I started looking at live. I've started going to the bank,

(01:01:04):
I mean, and now I've gone back to what I used to do to make me
money. And it seems to be picking my
confidence back up and I'm really catching more fists the
way I want to catch them. So if there's anything you can
expect out of manufacture, I'm going back to doing more idling.
I'm going back to fishing. What got me here?
Because fishing has changed a little bit, but it ain't changed
that much. And I've just tried to change my

(01:01:27):
strengths and I've got to get back to fishing my style.
And I don't mean that there's a style, but I like having targets
to throw at or at least find enough fish that's more than one
or two. But I can tell you that even the
fish are changing. The skulls are busting up.
There's not 100 fish skulls likethey used to be as much.
I mean, it's going to be more finesse type looking instead of

(01:01:50):
power fishing looking, if that makes sense.
I'm looking for five or six groups instead of 50 groups, if
if that makes sense. And and when you're doing that,
live makes it better live makes it easier, quicker, faster just
to be able to locate the fish. I mean, and you know, I'm a big
360 guy by 360 guys, 10 second delay.
It's nothing live about it. You can't see your bait.

(01:02:10):
You really can't tell the water column they're in unless they
got a good shadow. I mean, there's there's a lot
that the 360 won't do, but there's a lot of 360 will do
that the live won't do. So they both have their places
and I'm way better with 360 and I'm live.
I've run a Yamaha outboard for over 30 years.
It has got me home safe each andevery time.

(01:02:31):
If you enjoy this podcast, remember Yamaha supports it and
they care enough about you to make this ad read very short.
Now back to the show. Where are you at with the I know
you said he didn't like votes, but do you have an opinion on
you know, obviously everybody talking about whether it should
say the way it is, whether it should go 5050 like what what

(01:02:53):
were or whether it should go away.
What if you were never mind voting?
I don't want to hear your vote, but if you all of a sudden were
the commissioner of bass fishing, what would your
decision be on forward facing? It's going to.
Be a little bit of a part seriesbecause I know Bass has always
been a very strong stance on conservation.

(01:03:16):
That is really what Bass promotes his conservation really
and truly that I can remember even the days, you know,
conservation was key. I mean, like I just remember it
all my life it's been a conservation.
I don't care if it stays or goes.
I feel like I have to be the guythat either steps my game up or
steps my game down And and this that that's so that it has
nothing to do with competition. I'm not mad that I can't keep up

(01:03:39):
with him or nothing like that. So with that being said, I'm a
fan of an Alabama rig out of allthings.
We can't throw an Alabama rig inbass because of a conservation
deal. If an Alabama rig is too
conservational for bass, then live is too conservational to
me. Of Alabama rig only plays a few

(01:03:59):
times a year and you know you hook them outside.
But I can tell you right now alive with a jerk bite, you hook
them outside of mouth. This as much as you do with
Alabama rig. So if we're looking at
conservation side, I'm not a fanof it.
If we're looking at run what youbrung, like a drag racing or
boat racing or whatever I've always done run what you brung.
It stays. But that's why I'm telling you I
don't like the vote deal. I want somebody to say this is
what we're going to do. You can either play in our

(01:04:21):
league or you can find other league to play in.
That's where I wish it would go.But to answer your question, if,
if we're fishing bass the way I grew up watching bass, it don't
have a place for where we're headed and what we're doing.
And, and I don't mean this bad, but bass is the standard, right

(01:04:42):
in fishing. I mean, the Bassmaster Classic
is the biggest thing in bass fishing and that is bass, BASS,
nobody else. And to be a leader in that deal,
I'd think you need to make firm stands and you need to stand
behind them. And I don't think our weights
that Rick Klein had and the the days that I had, I mean, then

(01:05:05):
the Kevin Van Damme, I don't think that live is part of that.
I don't think live should be part of that.
And I know we had, I know they had flashers.
I mean, like I started with a flashers so they can talk all
that crap they want to. But I started with a flasher and
I can run across the lake and I can see bait with a flasher.
I can see ditches with a flasher.
I can see grass pumps with a flasher.
I mean, I've done all that. I mean, I know all that is
technology and we have progressed up, but being able to

(01:05:28):
chase a fish for an hour and catch that fish, that is crazy.
I mean, that is you got to thinkabout that a little bit.
I mean, we can do it with our eyes if we stay in shallow
water, but even a shallow fish up north can get deeper where we
can't see it. You know, I'm saying there is
some relief, but with the they have no relief for the live if.
If we're talking about conservation, that's where I'm

(01:05:49):
at with it. It's a good stance.
I mean I. Don't care.
Again, as I'm telling you, it don't stay easy.
I fish it. If I don't like it, I go
somewhere else. And that's the way I like it.
And I don't, I don't like the, Idon't like the division it's
creating And, and, and some of that division is in the wrong
place. Some of that division is because
we can't compete, but that mine's not there.

(01:06:11):
I'm not mad that they beat me. I'm mad at myself because I'm
not beating them. That's the whole deal.
So I'm not that guy. But just so you understand what
I'm saying, I, I, it needs to change regardless.
I don't know whether it's 5050 or gone.
I'm not some, but something has to equal out for us to be able
to maintain as a group. And and that 5050 deal,

(01:06:35):
everybody thinks that because they got it, they're better, you
know, the younger guys, but they're going to be surprised if
they catch them and we do away with it for 50% of the time too.
I mean, it's going to be AI would like to say it the minimum
5050 though, to be honest with you, because that puts them
where they got to learn what I'ddo as much as I can learn what
they do no matter. I mean, I know everybody and all

(01:06:56):
the young guys and old guys too will say, well, you need to go
learn what they're doing, You'rebehind.
Well, if you've never done what we've done, they might be
behind. If I took it away, you know, I'm
trying to say there's an equal stance somewhere, but I'm just
telling you, the conservation side, it's not a great thing.
And then other than that, I'm good for whatever they want to
do. I like it.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy it. It's like bed fishing.

(01:07:16):
You don't see any bed fish much in the tournament, but I think
it's fun. Yeah, yeah, it the 5050 to me.
I mean, dude, I'm just tired of the argument, to be honest.
I just want to yell stupid stuffwhile you guys hold fish and I
and I think that there's some ofthe division is the time we live
in. There's division in everything.

(01:07:38):
Like that's just how it is like in in every single sport.
And I mean we've used golf. Look what happened to golf.
You got, you know, Liv and PGA like, but I think that there's a
benefit in division through, youknow, social media creates
division like that. That's I mean me and you can,

(01:07:59):
you can post this as my favoriteworm and guess what?
Somebody's going to chime in there and be like, no, that
worm's a piece of crap because Ilike this vice versa.
But I, I think that at least with 5050, you know, the person
who wins angular of the year hasbeen tested at everything like
they've had to had to catch them.
And I think it it's intriguing to see, but but ultimately I

(01:08:23):
think that the fishing world needs to remember that other
anglers are not the enemy. No, I.
Agree, I agree with that 100% and and you nobody, all,
everybody don't ever get along no matter what we do, but it but
it has gotten harder with the reason that we've created with
boating and life, to be honest with you.
And then again it once we get that squared away, I think it'll

(01:08:47):
go back to some normalcy. But the sport needs normalcy in
a general. All leagues need normalcy in
order for people to want to put their money in it and that's
what it's all about. We've got to do a better job to
where we can get bigger. Nothing on the sponsors we got.
So don't misunderstand what I'm saying, but we need bigger
investments out of sponsors, notonly comes when they're

(01:09:08):
comfortable with the league and that league can't have
controversy at every point. It needs to die down and it
needs to move forward and we need more money in this deal and
it'll probably not happen beforeI have to leave, but these guys
are going to appreciate us trying to get normalcy and and
money into this thing in the future.
Yeah, and the leagues in general, like the leagues need

(01:09:31):
to remember it's bass fishing. We're all promoting the same
thing. Like, you know what I mean?
Like enough of the. I like this league because that
I like basically like, guess what?
I love the fact that I don't have to wait till Sunday three
months later to watch it on TNNIcan watch live bass fishing,
whatever league I want almost any week of the year.

(01:09:53):
Like we are so overserviced as bass fishing fans.
So there's a lot of good. There's a lot of good in the
world. And buddy, you're you're part of
that good. So the end of the season going
to go strong here, right? We're going to have two great
final events. I've I had a few bucket lists.
I've checked a few off. One of them is winning the
northern event, so I'm trying hard for that one.

(01:10:14):
All right. I just want to win actually, not
just a northern man. I want to be a small mouth
northern event because I did go to Champlain and catch a lot of
big largemouth, so I can't countthat one I want to catch.
I want to win one with small mouth one time.
So Saint Clair, you're going to win.
Saint Clair, I'm. Going to try.
All right. I got no rod company, no real
company and they got some reallygreat product to put in my
hands. I'm fixed putting the work.

(01:10:35):
Nice. Sounds like a plan.
Sounds like a plan. I know you you got, I don't want
to keep you much longer because I've already kept you more than
I promised and you got a bunch of stuff going on, but it's been
good hanging out. Let's do this again, buddy.
I'd love to I, I really appreciate you having me on.
No, no problem. I mean, again, I I'm just an

(01:10:56):
idiot at booking people. I wish I was better at at it.
Literally people are like, well,why didn't you call so And so
generally, you know who gets booked?
Whoever I just randomly have to talk to that week about
whatever, you know what I mean? Oh, you, by the way, are you
free on Tuesday so we could makea podcast?
I wish I was. Probably why you're sitting on
the throne and you're scrolling Facebook or Instagram is, oh

(01:11:18):
dude, he's got someone to talk about.
Let's talk to him. That's the truth.
There is a lot of social media. That's the thing to remember
about social media. A lot of social media gets done
while people are. So that tells you what you need
to know about social media. Thank you very.
Much. I appreciate you, I really do
all. Right, you take care and have a

(01:11:39):
great day. Thank you.
We'll see you soon. Well, on that note, it's got me
wondering, but where are you listening to this podcast?
Are you literally listening to it where it all goes down?
Are you sitting on the throne, the toilet, the outhouse, the
crapper, the can, whatever you refer to it as?

(01:11:59):
Or maybe you're out, you know, going for a walk.
Maybe you're at work. Maybe you drive a truck.
Maybe you're on your way to work.
Let me know where you listen to this show for two reasons.
I mean #1 it, I'm curious and #2pun unintentional, but #2 it

(01:12:27):
will help stroke the algorithm and keep the grow going because
it amazes me the amount of people that listen to this
podcast and how widespread you are.
So help this good community continue to grow.
And let me know in the comments where you listen to the podcast
and what what you're doing when you listen to it.
I would love to know and and keep that in mind as well about

(01:12:50):
social media, because that is a true stat.
I mean, a lot of social media istaking care of when people are
well, taking care of a business.So maybe makes you look at
things a little different if youin visualize that hateful
comment of that ornery person orthat ornery post happening while

(01:13:13):
someone's doing that, maybe it makes you look at things
different. I mean, it's we're just passing
time. I mean, people used to do
crossword puzzles and now they are giving their opinion one
finger at a time. The next thing I want to talk
about and there's no smooth transition for it because

(01:13:38):
there's no way to get to it. It is horrific.
It is devastation and it is the floods in Texas to all the
amazing people of Texas. I have so many amazing friends
in Texas and such amazing memories and things connected to
Texas. I mean, I once had a dog from
Texas called Tex that passed just a few years ago.

(01:13:59):
I mean, I, I love Texas and I hate seeing what they're going
through. Our thoughts and prayers are
with everybody and anybody that is affected by the horrifying
devastation that is happening there.

(01:14:22):
Get out there and have a good week.
People Make the world a better place.
Say something nice to somebody. Just randomly say hello to your
neighbor. Say some.
Tell them their lawn looks nice.It makes a big difference in the
world. Hold the door open for somebody.
You don't know what they're going through that week and

(01:14:43):
little things like that truly make the world a better place.
Have a great week, enjoy being and as always, Bob Cobb, take it
away. Thanks for watching.
Please like, comment and subscribe because Bob Cobb of
the Bass Masters told you to youhere.

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Crime Junkie

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Buddy Gross "I Created My Own Slump" on MERCER-220

Stuff You Should Know