January 14, 2025 • 47 mins
We're hitting the streets and looking for pet shops!
'Day Bang' by Roosh V is a how to guide on meeting girls during the day. In particular he advocates for starting casual chats (where the girl doesn't initially realise you're hitting on her) in cafe's, book stores, retail outlets and on the street. He lays out his strategy for the elderly opener, dropping interesting bait about yourself before moving into establishing a deeper connection and finally getting a number. Within you'll learn about psychology, logistics, motivation, example conversations and his knowledge from teaching others.
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Timeline:
(00:00:00) Intro
(00:03:11) Themes/Questions
(00:32:07) Author & Extras
(00:39:04) Summary
(00:44:35) Value 4 Value
(00:45:53) Join Live!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kyrin Down (00:00):
We're hitting the streets and looking for pet shops.
Welcome everyone to another episode of the Mere Mortals book reviews live here
on 15th
of the first 2025.
11 AM Australian Eastern Standard Time on a Wednesday as always.
(00:23):
Now as you might surmise this is the podcast where I, Kyrin,
pick up all the girls in the world. This is what this podcast is for.
Okay. No, it isn't. Although I did hear a stat recently that apparently the number one most attractive trait that guys can have or hobby is reading. So hopefully that's doing well for me. I'm not too sure I haven't gotten girls from this podcast
(00:45):
yet, but maybe that will change because we did read, an interesting one this week.
Daybang by Roosh V, which I actually read on my Kindle here. And there is a a reason why I read that, but I'll, I'll get into that a little bit late, later.
This was first published in 2011.
It's 201 pages. Taught me about 3 to 4 hours of reading.
(01:07):
Honestly, you can get through it pretty quick. You could probably even get through it a little bit quicker than that.
Now this is a guide on how to meet girls during the day, pick up girls, get their number in particular.
So
in particular, he advocates for
starting general conversations, what he calls elderly chats,
(01:27):
with with women.
And basically so that they don't even realize that you're trying to pick them up when you're first initially chatting to them. This will gradually lead into a longer conversation. You form a bit of a connection,
And then he's got some strategies, routines, tactics to make the whole,
pickup and getting the number a seamless experience.
(01:48):
So
in particular,
this is focused on the day.
He had a another titular book before this called Bang, which was all about night game. This one is day bang during the day. So he talks about, strategies,
logistics,
for coffee shops,
for being in retail outlets,
(02:09):
in malls, out in the street,
even in some more niche locations such as a gym
or,
I don't know, like a day spa or things like that.
Areas like that, basically, anywhere you could expect to meet a girl during the day.
He talks about that apart from work situations. So he doesn't he doesn't go into that.
(02:30):
Now,
he lays out a strategy for this elderly opener, dropping interesting bait about yourself to try and
continue the conversation going, get into more personal type questions,
and you'll learn about psychology,
logistics,
example, conversations,
motivation,
and his knowledge from teaching others.
(02:51):
So within this book, it's split into about 12 chapters.
Most of them are about the
particular location. So on the street, in a coffee shop, etcetera, etcetera.
But he does include some other little, aspects such as wrapping it all together,
general approaches, strategies, motivation, things like that. Okay. Let's jump into the themes and questions for today.
(03:15):
And
the main one that I got from this is pick is picking up girls ethical? Is
pick up artistry
as a whole,
an ethical pursuit?
What did people feel about this? So
there's somewhat of a personal question that I've I've battled with for a while.
And,
I think we'll we'll start off. We'll we'll get into what Roosh himself advocates,
(03:40):
whether it works and how it plays into, I guess, like a broader
societal context. So
what you see on your screen right now, if you're on YouTube or even if you have a podcasting app, a decent one where you can see the chapter up is his Roosh day game model. And so it starts with the elderly opener. So this is asking for help and opinion or information.
(04:02):
You then go on to establishing a conversation,
by using small bait. So,
just talking about whatever thing it is that you're you're talking about. So for example, he would say,
if you're in a
store of stationery and things like that, and she's by the pen section, you might go and go up to her and asking like, oh, is that a good pen? And then
(04:26):
starting to ramble about,
the different types of pens. Is it a blue one? Do they come in different colors?
When you press on the page with that pen, does it leave ink stains? If you're writing right handed versus left handed,
Does the the quality of of the the metal on the outside degrade things like this? So you're really just
(04:47):
talking about general
nonsense in in essence. Like imagine
that you were particularly buying a
computer or whatever it is that your hobby that you're invested in, you're wanting to get like the best product, the best drone, the best new,
I don't know, kitchen cabinets, the best new plates, crockery, whatever it is that you would particularly find interesting and could talk about for ages. You have to do that with whatever is at hand. Well, when when you see a girl that you would like to meet. So
(05:19):
establishing the conversation, small bait, then you're dropping big bait. So then you would maybe,
transition onto
hinting at things like, yeah. You know, I actually found it really hard in Brazil to,
when I was overseas or when I was in Brazil to to find pens because they they don't seem to have the same writing culture that they do here in Australia,
whatever like that. And so you're trying to
(05:41):
drop little pieces which will,
essentially
direct the conversation to go into an area where it can show some interesting things about yourself that you've traveled, that you know a foreign language, that you have a,
a martial artist hobby, that that you like to do handstands. There's a couple of things for myself,
that you
once won an award for something that you have done this, that you
(06:05):
invested in this particular community,
whatever it is, whatever
things that would potentially make someone interested in you or that makes you an interesting person. You're trying to drop little things, to
to give her something to snag on to and start a conversation.
Once she is asking you personal,
conversations or questions, you then get into his final strategy here of of personal chat, which is asking, you know, things about herself
(06:33):
and then his Galenuk
ending routine, which is,
oh, are you half German?
Trying to just, you know, ask personal questions in return to her. How old are you? Where do you live?
What's your name? Where do you usually hang out? You seem cool. Do you want to grab a drink sometime
(06:53):
transitioning into the number? And then you, of course, leave.
So
you don't do that all in just one big hit. He he's saying, like, you know, when you ask someone if they're if they're half German, should probably follow that up because
if it's just a random thing to then go, oh, and how old are you? Oh, and, you know, he's really trying to avoid
the interview style
(07:14):
of,
of conversations
and make it a back and forth of,
of fun, of inserting humor, of small little stories, things like this. So
that is his general strategy.
A couple of rules of thumbs that you'll you'll find from this book is,
for 1, never touch a girl during the opener. So, you know, kind of waving in front of their face,
(07:36):
to get their attention. Don't forcibly stop her if you're on the street. Don't, you know, go up behind her and tap her on the back. You should always be trying to maneuver yourself so that you are not initiating physical contact,
on someone completely just out of the blue
approach. And so approaching from her in front with a pause of pool exclusive to why you're in the area,
(07:58):
giving a reason to why you're asking her, even if it's obvious,
or even if it's,
a just a pointless thing. So he talks about how there was a study
of,
this is I think from the book Real Robert Cialdini's Persuasion
where if you want to cut in line in a, in a context
(08:18):
of say you're at a university and wanting to use the printer, you can actually just go up to someone and say, hey, can I get in in front of you in the line? And, you know, some people will say yes. Some people will say no. But what about,
if you went up and say, hey, I want to, can I cut in line in front of you? I want to use the printer. Now, the
(08:39):
the reason you're asking is obvious, but that additional little extra step seems to just
make people way more acceptable for you for you doing that. So
similar sort of things,
you know, and having to be a little bit creative of of
a reason to why you would want to do it if it's not obvious.
So you could say, oh, excuse me, do you know where the skinny jeans are
(09:02):
in a retail store? And she'd be like, oh, I don't work here. And you'd go, oh, yeah, but you you seem like someone who would know about skinny jeans or someone who would, etcetera.
Or if you're commenting on
bakery goods, you could be asking the the person at the front counter, but you're like, oh, yeah. They they might,
try to say extra things to do the sale. So you're coming up with reasons as to why you're talking with her in particular.
(09:28):
Now he's got some stats in this book saying that,
on average you'll get probably 5 to 10%
numbers for however many approaches that you do. So if you do a 100, you'll maybe get 5 to 10 numbers,
30 to 50% if in niche venues and you're on fire.
It's better to approach in concentrated blocks. So if you had to do 15 in a in a week,
it
(09:51):
a in a week, it or 14, it it's better to do
one day where you just do 14 approaches rather than 2 a day,
for for the 7 days in a week.
For every hour spent approaching spend 15 minutes analyzing your mistakes and things that went well, things that didn't go well,
treating it kind of like a,
(10:13):
what doesn't get measured doesn't get managed sort of deal. So so keeping stats and numbers if you're if you're trying to do that,
stay in ramble as long as she is maintaining eye contact and not moving away attempt dropping bait multiple times. So really getting over this
insecurity, this this fear of being rejected
and
(10:34):
doing things to make it either clear cut that she wasn't interested
or she was and not having any of these conversations where you're afraid to just
say that extra line or do that extra thing
because she's giving off maybe lukewarm or mid warm
responses.
(10:54):
What about starting a convo right before you or her are leaving? So don't linger around, don't start a conversation,
have it interrupted by something. I can try and restart again or, you know, be in the same area just doing your work, that sort of thing.
A game is a practice and in particular is an active, dedicated practice. So if you work on this, you will get better.
(11:16):
And for example, he says, 10 minutes during the day is is about the same level of connection as 1 hour during the night. So it's very different. So if you're picking up girls during the night, you have to have a completely different strategy if you're trying to do it during the day.
And then finally has the optimal mindset is a relaxed attitude, a focus on building connection through fun conversation, self value and an acceptance that this is a numbers game in which hard work is rewarded.
(11:42):
Okay. So that's that's the general
strategy, the general things that he advocates for in this book.
Does it work? Well,
I can tell you this because absolutely it does work. So for those who don't know my background,
when I was a teenager in particular, so,
yeah, probably from puberty
(12:03):
into
about 20 years old,
I had a tremendous amount of anxiety,
in particular approach anxiety. So talking to people
and starting conversations,
whether it be with men or with men, women, but particularly with with women, with girls. And so
I
(12:23):
was what I consider a loser for a large period of that time in my life
and
suffered
tremendously because of that very much internally thinking in my head,
thinking that I'm a loser because I can't talk to girls because I don't know how to,
you know, initiate conversations to be fun,
to be happy, to be my myself in front of people because I would always kind of clam up. So I got to a point in my life where I went,
(12:51):
I need to change this. Like, I can't keep living like this. This is this is absolutely horrible.
And so I
had
found about a roof fee a long time ago. I knew a lot of these things and I said finally one day, like, I've had enough, I'm going to put this into practice. So in 2013,
my last year of university,
so I would have been 20 years old, I believe.
(13:14):
I, I said not okay. I'm going to do this. Obviously, whatever I'm doing in my normal day to day routine, how I normally live is not working because I'm not getting dates, I'm not interacting with women at all. I need to change that. So what I did was basically followed his advice to a tee. So I went around my university,
(13:34):
I went around
a bunch of different areas in Brisbane,
King George Square, Queen Street Mall in the city.
I talk to girls on the street. I talk to girls in
department stores. I talk to them in
the food courts. I talk to them in bookstores. I talk to them in a ridiculous amount of locations.
(13:56):
And I also followed his advice by keeping
a meticulous
level of notes and things like this.
So what I would essentially do is,
every day at the end of the day of of trying to talk to girls, I would say, you know, how many I talk to, what the kind of context was, what I did poorly, what I did well,
(14:18):
how it went, if I got a number, etcetera, etcetera.
So this spanned over
a couple of month periods,
when I was taking notes. So that June through to December type period.
Yep. November, December. Yep. And
I have some data, so I can share that with you. So I did a 149 approaches. I got 14 numbers, and 6 of them led to dates. So pretty much bang on what he was talking,
(14:46):
about with regards to stats. So a 149 approaches, 14 numbers, that's 10%.
And about half of them lead led to actual dates
with some, you know, numbers where the the girl would never respond or it just fizzled out or I could never get him on a date, etcetera, etcetera.
What
I noticed from this is whilst very slow going for the first fifty approaches, I got the the classic
(15:12):
beginners luck that you experience,
such as in you'll you'll find in talked about in books like this, The Alchemist,
where if you start a new venture, you do get a little bit of luck, and then it turns into a grind and and very hard. So I did get a a number,
well, actually girls Facebook on my very first approach,
5th
(15:32):
June 2013.
That was the
the start date of my life in in
a start date of a new version of Kya and someone completely different. I've got it written down right at the top here, 5th June
2013.
And,
also on my 4th approach. And then for the next 50, nothing.
(15:54):
So I was grinding away for a while. And then, yes, it is true. You do tend to get phases and periods where you will get a whole bunch of numbers and then nothing. And so,
particularly in the 60
to 70 range, I think I got, you know, 6 or 7. So it was like, woah, what the hell?
(16:16):
You know, this is where you might be going like, okay, well, this is getting into a little bit of,
you know, creepy category. It's you're just a dude,
like trying to trying to fuck women, get out in the day,
you know, have multiple women at once, this sort of thing.
What I can say is it helped me get my first real number, got helped me got my first real date, helped helped me get my first real kiss and to be sexually explicit, my first,
(16:43):
real fornication.
So
this was definitely one of those periods where it's like, okay, well,
sure.
The the the advocacy of what he's saying might not be up your style, but it certainly does get, results.
And I found this much more suited to my temperament and compared to,
some other ones, that he talked about, such as in Daybang, which, sorry, in Bang, which is,
(17:08):
you have to be clownish over the top
nagging girls,
which is
a negative is a neg is a backhanded compliment,
where you're
in essence
giving them a compliment, but it's it is actually lowering their self esteem, which is what you'll find in a quite a lot of the pickup artist books,
(17:32):
and being direct, being cocky. I never liked any of that.
But the
this book was very much suited to
me as a person. It's lower energy. It's more conversational.
You don't have to go out of your,
you know, you don't have to be in loud,
crazy chaotic environments. You can talk to a girl 1 on 1.
(17:54):
All of this was just way up more on my alley. That was another one of the rules of thumbs. Like, it's better just and easier just to talk to girls 1 on 1 rather than in groups.
So you should be focusing on that during the day.
And some of the advice in this book was very neutral for me.
It is very
mindset related in this. I'd say probably
(18:16):
a quarter of the book is about mindset of
getting over fear of anxiety, of rejection,
of feeling
shit about yourself because you get rejected.
All of the normal things that you will experience, not just in romantic relationships, but in work relationships
or, you know, applying to different jobs
(18:38):
or with friendships where friendships break apart and you realize someone doesn't want to be a friend anymore. All of these sorts of things,
there is something I personally find much more
ingrained to
my my worth as a person if it's sexually related. But, you know, that
obviously is just me in this in this context. So some of the advice he talks about in here, such as this rejection mindset of imagining the worst case scenario,
(19:04):
you go to a girl in a rest in a cafe,
and she turns looks at you like sneers points and laughs at you and is like, you really think a guy like you could get with a girl like me? Everyone in the in the building, in the in the cafe turns points at laughs at you. There is actually a jumbotron. Someone's recording this live and it's getting broadcast out to 50,000 people in a nearby stadium.
(19:28):
Negative visualization is what the stoics would call this
and
using that as yeah. Sure. That would feel shit, but go do it anyway. Do it to, you know, in spite of of the fear. And some people really find that helpful. Me, I've I've never really found
negative visualization in that context to be particularly helpful,
(19:50):
nor did this
alternative view of saying, like, you know, what's likely is going to happen is you'll just get a polite rejection, which is very much the case.
I don't recall any
real
weird
crazy things happening to me from
just talking to a girl randomly like this other than when I accidentally talked to the same girl twice with the same opener,
(20:14):
which was very awkward.
And that's like the worst case scenario. And
I did it and I survived. And it was like, okay, yeah, sure. That was
humiliating
and embarrassing for the
15 seconds when I realized, oh, shit, I talked to the same girl with the same opener twice, which actually, funnily enough, was using this Kindle. I had a book here,
(20:35):
which had the word axiomatic in it. And I had that bookmarked. So I would go to that page
and, you know, sit down near them and then ask, oh, excuse me, do you do you know what this word means?
And I did that to the same girl. It was pretty funny.
So he says, like, you know, you're most likely just gonna get a polite rejection.
If you were looking at this as God, we're looking at this, you know, zooming out from your location to your suburb, to your city, to your country, to the world as a whole, to the
(21:07):
infinitesimally
grand
nature that is the universe.
Is that polite rejection the worst thing that's gonna ever happen to you? No. Of course, it means nothing in the grand scheme, so do it.
I never found that particularly helpful. What I did find helpful was
this tough love.
Nobody gives a shit about you
(21:27):
destroying this
egotistical
feeling that I had for such a long time, which was,
I'm, you know, everyone's gonna notice me if I do this. When I sit on the bus, everyone's looking at me. If I say something wrong, if I do something, no, nobody cares.
Everyone's in their own world.
And I needed a
a nice big shock, rude awakening to
(21:51):
just how
selfish I don't know, self centered I was being,
many, many years of bus rides, of
judging myself so harshly from other people's eyes.
And it
was all a fantasy. There was none of that was true. None of that was true. So
you know that in that case, in this context, this book is
(22:13):
just as much motivational
and psychology driven as it is related to actual logistics and tactics of picking up girls,
which gets into this final little section here. Is this ethical?
Well, I think by the actions that you could look at this, they're they're by and large fine. You know, he's
very much saying, you know, don't physically interact with a girl during the day. So don't impose yourself upon her presence
(22:39):
that you should just be starting a bland conversation. You know, she won't even know if anything went wrong
because
if she just is is not interested in talking to you, then that's that's it. Like, that's the that's the end of the end of the conversation. Nothing has been
broken,
certainly in a law sense. And,
(23:01):
and I would even say in a, you know, what's the worst that can happen to her is a minor inconvenience
to her day.
Potentially thing.
Bruce talks about a lot of times that you you
have to be comfortable telling white lies to continue a conversation going,
oh, a friend told me this that happened. And it was just, you know, a friend never told you that you just were talking about something to keep the ramble going
(23:26):
because it is rather hard to talk about a pen for 3 to 5 minutes.
He usually says you want to aim for like 10 to 15 minutes to to try and
before you you go for a number to establish a connection. So it's not just a like, hey, I'm Karen, give me a number,
which sure can work, but you'll probably just get a whole bunch of fake numbers.
(23:49):
And so
he talks about this white lies, you know, is it a white lie to ask her information that's not particularly necessary?
Well, I think by the definition of a lie, no, but it's certainly unnecessary.
Is that a bad thing in itself?
Once upon a time, I would have thought, yeah,
the the strictly logistical engineering
(24:12):
part of Kyren would have said, yes, that is that is a
a liar or an untruth of some sort. Nowadays, I go like, man, if I look at all the conversations I have
more,
almost all of them
are not purely
strict informational
givings and backs and forths is talking for the sake of talking talking. It's, you know, establishing a connection. It's it's,
(24:37):
many times during the day, I like
I don't I don't really care how my brother slept, but I will still ask him, how did he sleep?
You know, things like that. So if you analyze any given conversation out on the street between people, all of it is is kind of useless and,
and not for
pure logistic
(24:59):
informational exchange.
One thing I'd say that,
I'd be I'd always been wary of is, is
strategies
of feeling like you're manipulating a girl.
This is a lot of what the pickup artist and when you hear about things like the backhanded compliments to make her feel bad,
so that she would then think that you are a higher value of her. Those are certainly ones where it's like, okay, yeah. You know, if if you're making someone feel bad, I definitely think that that's a bit of an ethical quandary.
(25:30):
But, Roche has a sentence in this that contradicts this. So he says, game doesn't exist to convince girls to have sex with you. It's just an efficient tool that allows to open individuals to have sex in a short amount of time,
which I think Hammers Holmes
that you're really on the back foot as a male. You are not the chooser
in in this situation. She gets to choose if if you
(25:52):
are worthy or not.
And that is just biologically driven, you know, make choices.
Men have,
the ability to have as many children in a short amount of time period as possible, whereas women have to be a lot more choosy because obviously with a pregnancy and things like that, the the onus and bird
is on them. So there's that biological constraint.
(26:15):
Therefore,
this is is getting really into
why
they are the ultimate chooser in this case and that whatever you think you can
do this slickest tongue, the smoothest talking, the
optimal way of
putting words here and there. I used to think this was maybe possible, but I I, yeah, I don't believe that anymore. I, you know, she's probably made a decision before you even say a word to her.
(26:41):
And that makes sense because this book would not exist otherwise for that. I kind of look at as a
but like you're saying there's strategy, there's there's ways of improving conversationally.
There's certainly ways of making yourself look better of grooming and things like this. He doesn't talk about that in the book, but,
in some other books and a lot of pickup artists, you you will hear about things like that.
(27:05):
Is that any different from makeup? No.
Our tactics and strategies
for manipulation
and coercion,
you know, that's
that's certainly more ethically dubious
yet.
Another analogy would be
I was a pretty decent soccer player.
(27:26):
You could maybe say I had a bit of talent,
when I was young because I didn't need to train as hard as other kids and I would be in a decent team.
Is them training harder
to get in the team and potentially take my spot? Is that ethically dubious? No, that's just improving. And
the this book is a lot of it's about self improvement as well as becoming a better conversationalist.
(27:51):
So these skills whilst applied
directly to women
is not just purely on that. You you can see how this would,
get into other areas.
No. The real moral dubiousness
is that there is an underlying mentality that dare I say is toxic.
Dare I say is majot misogynistic,
dare I say rapey and weird.
(28:13):
And I say these things because I know that it would absolutely rile Roshap if he ever saw this video because he was certainly in the SJW
SJW
social justice warrior,
culture wars of wokeness of things like that. When he was in the US,
he he was right in the thick of all of that as it was emerging
(28:34):
and
becoming more common, stronger, something like that.
And, you know, that's that's just funny. That's just me playing around. Now the the problem that you could maybe get from this book is that he advocates for viewing women as tools for sexual pleasure and and pretty much that,
that any niceties,
any weakness on your part, any affection, any beta behavior,
(28:58):
any valuing valuing of them upfront as a human being is bad. Bad because you will get punished and not get laid from it. And this is a book about getting laid. So shut the fuck up, Kyren.
Yeah. Well,
you know, I guess the ethics is beyond the book.
Because there is certainly portions of that in here.
There are portions and he makes many jokes about,
(29:20):
you know, just just being able to get your your peepee, your your your elongated snake into her love hole and things like that.
It's a bit crude. The humor is, you know,
I look at it now and I'm a bit like,
but
it certainly would be funny for
guys in their twenties who just wanna get laid for sure. Maybe guys in their thirties, maybe guys in their forties, fifties, sixties.
(29:43):
Who do I know?
That aspect of of viewing women just for sex,
I I think is not healthy.
So there's no doubt this book is for guys who
have a lower EQ.
And for this case, I'm assuming
that, you know, the emotional
quotient much like the intelligence quotient is more fixed.
(30:07):
And
like you can get better at IQ tests by practicing the the mini puzzles the,
you know, if this happens, this x y,
I think you can improve your EQ
in a similar way by becoming a better conversationalist.
And this book does that.
And
so therefore, you you need help forming a connection if you are someone like me.
(30:32):
This book skips the connection is all about the sex. I think as a throwback to last week's book review on Darren Hayes's
strategy
to overcome
his
insecurities,
his fears,
his feeling unlovable.
He went through the path of becoming famous to do that and getting wealthy.
(30:55):
And that ended up being pretty terrible, terrible
and not a long good long term strategy for
finding and
and solving curing
the problems that he felt within.
I think it's much the same here. If if you're looking for validation
through sex and sex alone,
(31:16):
you
sure it might work as a short term mental boost
and you'll feel good about it. But if you're doing that for the long term, you're going to realize you're just having sex with random girls. And
typically what you
tend to see
in these sorts of
pickup artist communities is that they
(31:37):
will focus on,
where how you can get sex the quickest and easiest. And so therefore, you're going towards girls who are probably lower quality because they are also looking for validation through sex
and quick hookups and things like that. So,
you know, it's it's kinda like damaged meets damaged and trying to solve your problems like that. But in terms of the meta ethics of this book, yes, the the tactics work and they will help you get laid. So,
(32:07):
we can see he himself shifts his focus over time. And let's jump onto that now. So the author and some extra details,
Boy, oh, boy, Rooshvi, aka Dheyush Valizadeh.
So he was an American guy. He is an American guy.
A little bit older than me. I think he was born in the eighties.
And,
(32:27):
I first found him through his blog.
So before that, he was I think he would describe himself as a microbiologist
loser,
very similar to myself and why I felt a connection to him was
pretty average. Just looking dude.
He
also struggled with connecting with women talking to them felt a lot of fear and anxiety.
(32:50):
He himself went down into pickup artists forums and things like this, and realized through his writing that he
could get out of his standard 9 to 5 job
and live a life that he wanted to pursue, which was of travel and picking up girls. So
he did that.
He
(33:11):
actually funnily enough the his travel memoir, a dead bat in Paraguay.
I haven't read that review that on this channel.
I've read that book a couple of times before. Yeah, I don't I don't think I'll read it anytime soon.
Was what inspired me to do my 14 month travel of Latin America, particularly South America.
And,
I have him to thank for that. So, I've
(33:33):
somewhat been a supporter of him over the years. I bought his books. I have
right on
a shirt of his right now. There's a fridge magnet outside.
So over the years, his style has changed from being
purely game sex related.
So he had Bang, then he had all of these
(33:53):
guides to particular countries and one called pussy paradise,
where he was in Poland,
where I'm actually fun, funnily enough, going in
May slash June. So maybe I would read that just for a laugh
into more politics and cultural sort of things. So the first time I ever heard
social justice warrior
or red pill
(34:15):
or the manosphere was in the context of his forums and things like this. Funny enough, one of the first places that I I heard about Bitcoin was in there as well.
And
he moved more into,
I guess,
politics in a sense because he was trying to do all of these
meetups, real life meetups,
(34:37):
And he essentially got shut down
and was almost kicked out of Canada. And he wrote a book called Free Speech Isn't Free about where
people
were
an anti ruche people were
denying him
access to
(34:58):
places
such as like if he booked
a hotel room or a hotel lobby that would call up the hotel and, you know, active
be activists
to to get that. Do you know you've got a pro rape, blah, blah, blah, blah person?
I actually remember
on
there was an Australian news site news.com.au
(35:19):
where he was front page one day on their online version
of
the
of Australia banning him or and he
he he drew like this stupid comic of like getting in through the back door through Tasmania or something
as a joke. And that became
national news in Australia, which is hilarious.
(35:41):
So he he then became somewhat jaded with sleeping around
and started advocating for more a
holistic approach to
finding a partner. And so you can see this in his books like game or lady.
So this was more in his later thirties, early forties,
before doing
I love this dude for this reason. Just a full 180 into Orthodox Christianity.
(36:06):
I think it was related to
probably, you know, large becoming disillusioned with with picking up girls and this being his whole hobby, career,
lifestyle
persona,
but also his his sister died of of cancer
and he had a mushroom trip, I think, just before or just after that,
(36:28):
which
who knows, maybe it changed to the neurochemistry in his brain.
But he became full on Orthodox Christian,
religious
born again, you know, it's so funny.
I love this story. So good.
And he wrote a book about that called American Pilgrim
(36:48):
wrote for a while after that about
really denouncing
his whole previous lifestyle. So
the meaningless of sex of
of the debauchery of American culture
of it was just
never have I seen a 180 of a person go so
different
(37:09):
over like a 5, 10 year period
just wild
and has now largely erased his presence from the Internet. And I think he's trying to
disassociate himself with
anything
of of what he is now because if you type Rishvi, go to Wikipedia, look at news articles, it's all about him,
and the the pickup artist stuff. So
(37:32):
just so crazy different.
It's this is why I love humanity. So funny.
So
myself, thankfully, I never got caught in the trap of
looking for validation
purely through sex. For me, it was I wanted to find a partner.
And
I did that pretty quickly on
it. For me, it was not about
(37:55):
getting
sex with many, many women becoming the ultimate player. For me, it was finding a girlfriend. And
so in that case,
you know, I
you could ask how many guys want to have unlimited sex with with the hottest babes that you can get? And the the answer is every guy
biologically speaking.
(38:18):
Just like
any person
with a
with a like a brain on them would if if they got unlimited access to
sweets, chocolates, the highest density, but
calorie
rich yet micronutrient
poor foods.
The obvious answer is just to eat all of that shit all the time. But you know, that that works for 2 days, one day maybe.
(38:42):
And then in the long term, it has
severe serious health risks and consequences to that.
The the pickup artist lifestyle is exactly the same.
You're indulging in really hedonistic behavior
for a short period of time, which is good. And then over the long period of time is bad. So
it's hollow. You'll probably just want a a connection in the end. So let's jump into the final section here summary similar books recommendations.
(39:08):
This is the single most important book I have ever read in my life and I've read this many many a time and I reread it recently,
so that I could do this book review.
What I don't know where I would be and who I would be without this book. You know, I
I'm sure I I think I've got the problem solving capabilities that I would have found a solution
(39:31):
to overcoming that fear and anxiety.
But the solution
might not have been pretty
in the extreme case. It could have been
suicide.
In a more likely case, it would have been
going down a path of
trying to meet girls during the night
and
(39:51):
adopting a bunch of behaviors that I dislike,
but I know I can push through. I know I can have the capacity to do things I don't like
in the pursuit of a of
a greater goal,
but I'm not sure about the person who I would have become in that process.
And
this this book
spoke to me and gave me
(40:14):
the
the knowledge of how to utilize
the instinctive,
not instinctive, the parts and natural parts of me that I think
do well,
and that are good.
And I wouldn't have to indulge in behaviors that I didn't like, such as nagging girls
or having to be cocky
(40:35):
and,
upfront brash,
a clown, a jokester, high energy,
which doesn't speak to me and which I I don't think is sustainable long term. So
the the advice I tried again recently at the gym and it's still rock solid. You know, talking with a girl about a yoga mat is much more of an easy introduction,
(40:57):
less likely to scare the cat as he,
he uses girls as as cats in this analogy and a lot throughout a lot of the book of not wanting to scare them. And this is why you do the elderly opener. This is why you do, you know, very casual, warm conversation leading up into personal questions.
Some parts of the book are very outdated.
The the classic pet store line, which I used for quite a few years,
(41:22):
it doesn't really make sense anymore because pet stores are not
I don't know any store
anywhere
where you can find
pets in the actual window to to look through them. Maybe, you know, it's still useful for, oh, I I want to buy food for
my my brother's dog or something like that, but
(41:43):
or buy a toy or something like that. So you can modify them, but the
some and and he also has tactics of
pretending to be ignorant about a phone and or what model is that? Does it have Internet and and things like that? And, you know, if you said that about a phone nowadays, you'd just
the girl would probably be like, how old are you actually?
(42:05):
Yet it essentially breaks down have how to have a normal conversation. I like his dry humor,
which helps break up some of the kind of tediousness of all of the example conversations that he provides in this book of
how a conversation will likely go why he says things the way he says it. So for me the book I mean,
(42:26):
jeez, I'm gonna have to give it the highest rating I've ever given a book a 9 and a half out of 10
day bang
by Roosh V. This thing this thing changed my life.
For other people just coming into it,
you know, it
I I don't know how helpful it'll well, obviously, it's not helpful for for women,
(42:46):
other than maybe
seeing like, oh, this guy is actually interested in me because he's approaching me in this style.
But
and for many guys, this would just be like,
this is just telling me how to have a normal conversation.
Yet, not all of us were born with the ability to understand how
our normal conversations work.
(43:08):
Shout out to all the engineers out there.
Other books similar to this. I mean, look, there's plenty of pickup artists literature out there. I'm sure there's people who
are similar to Rush in his style of what he says. I'm 100%
convinced that there are people on TikTok
talking about these very same things. How to get girls is always very interesting for guys in their
(43:31):
teens and twenties. And
I'm sure there's people with books coming out of that as well.
Once what I actually think to recommend though from this, it'd be things like Robert Cialdini's
persuasion
of how to win friends and influence People by Dale Carnegie.
You can you can go into pick up artist books like The Game by Neil Strauss. That's one of the classics, one of the first that was really ever written.
(43:57):
But that's
that's much more
introducing these things like peacocking,
wearing ridiculous shit out to nightclubs to set yourself apart
of nagging of
all the all the sort of like, I don't know what what's called the tactics, the real ingrained fine tuned,
more manipulative tactics
(44:19):
with a funny story attached to it because Neil Strauss is a good storyteller.
But I would focus honestly, I I
I think self help books have more in common with this than many of those books. So,
use that to,
your advantage.
Okay. Value for value. There's been a long one because this had most important book I've ever read. Gotta gotta give a decent book review of it. So
(44:43):
value for value, I put all of this information out there for you available anytime, anywhere, any place unlike this book because he, as I said, he's wiped a lot of his presence from online. So you're probably not gonna be able to get the the ebook version like I have.
You can still get them on Amazon and places like that, but, yeah, certainly much harder to to access his information than
(45:05):
than than previously.
Whereas this podcast available anytime, any place, anywhere for anyone.
Never gonna have sponsorships
nor advertising
on this podcast. And so to make this
sustainable long term, I need your support. I need you to provide some value back,
out of what you got from this this, 45
(45:26):
turning into 46, 47 minute long book review.
So liking, sharing, commenting,
all those sorts of things on social media. Joining in live is awesome.
Giving me book recommendations.
Your thoughts on this. Is it ethical to to,
get into,
you know, picking up girls in the day? I would love to know your thoughts on that. And then finally, there is a PayPal link down below if you wish to give some monetary support as well.
(45:53):
We, as I mentioned, I am live here as usual on 11 AM. Did have 2 people jumping in today. Johnny, classic Johnny from last week. Thank you very much. He left a very long, nice detailed
review of of Darren Hayes's,
or review a comment on Darren Hayes's book unlovable last week. So,
it's also worth jumping in and checking out some of the comments on these YouTube videos because they're good, as well as one and he's he's saying, damn, so not a quick little ear tickle to begin with.
(46:24):
That's risky, man. That's a high high risk, high reward strategy if you if you go out doing that.
How about you try that out and let me know how it goes?
So probably probably not advocated. No.
But I am gonna be live here as usual
on 11 AM Australian Eastern Standard Time on a Wednesday. What books are coming up? I'm gonna finish The Emperor of All Maladies, a book about cancer by Sadat
(46:49):
Sadatamukhaji.
I have my translation episode of The Alchemist the Ucalcu
alchemist coming up,
very shortly.
I have just started reading The Man Who Was Thursday by GK Chesterton.
And that's the the current,
books that are on the agenda. So,
(47:10):
and then whatever Juan's coming up with over this next period. So thank you very much for joining me as usual, and I will be here next week as usual. Chat for now. Kyron out. Bye.
We're hitting the streets and looking for pet shops.
Welcome everyone to another episode of the Mere Mortals book reviews live here
on 15th
of the first 2025.
11 AM Australian Eastern Standard Time on a Wednesday as always.
(00:23):
Now as you might surmise this is the podcast where I, Kyrin,
pick up all the girls in the world. This is what this podcast is for.
Okay. No, it isn't. Although I did hear a stat recently that apparently the number one most attractive trait that guys can have or hobby is reading. So hopefully that's doing well for me. I'm not too sure I haven't gotten girls from this podcast
(00:45):
yet, but maybe that will change because we did read, an interesting one this week.
Daybang by Roosh V, which I actually read on my Kindle here. And there is a a reason why I read that, but I'll, I'll get into that a little bit late, later.
This was first published in 2011.
It's 201 pages. Taught me about 3 to 4 hours of reading.
(01:07):
Honestly, you can get through it pretty quick. You could probably even get through it a little bit quicker than that.
Now this is a guide on how to meet girls during the day, pick up girls, get their number in particular.
So
in particular, he advocates for
starting general conversations, what he calls elderly chats,
(01:27):
with with women.
And basically so that they don't even realize that you're trying to pick them up when you're first initially chatting to them. This will gradually lead into a longer conversation. You form a bit of a connection,
And then he's got some strategies, routines, tactics to make the whole,
pickup and getting the number a seamless experience.
(01:48):
So
in particular,
this is focused on the day.
He had a another titular book before this called Bang, which was all about night game. This one is day bang during the day. So he talks about, strategies,
logistics,
for coffee shops,
for being in retail outlets,
(02:09):
in malls, out in the street,
even in some more niche locations such as a gym
or,
I don't know, like a day spa or things like that.
Areas like that, basically, anywhere you could expect to meet a girl during the day.
He talks about that apart from work situations. So he doesn't he doesn't go into that.
(02:30):
Now,
he lays out a strategy for this elderly opener, dropping interesting bait about yourself to try and
continue the conversation going, get into more personal type questions,
and you'll learn about psychology,
logistics,
example, conversations,
motivation,
and his knowledge from teaching others.
(02:51):
So within this book, it's split into about 12 chapters.
Most of them are about the
particular location. So on the street, in a coffee shop, etcetera, etcetera.
But he does include some other little, aspects such as wrapping it all together,
general approaches, strategies, motivation, things like that. Okay. Let's jump into the themes and questions for today.
(03:15):
And
the main one that I got from this is pick is picking up girls ethical? Is
pick up artistry
as a whole,
an ethical pursuit?
What did people feel about this? So
there's somewhat of a personal question that I've I've battled with for a while.
And,
I think we'll we'll start off. We'll we'll get into what Roosh himself advocates,
(03:40):
whether it works and how it plays into, I guess, like a broader
societal context. So
what you see on your screen right now, if you're on YouTube or even if you have a podcasting app, a decent one where you can see the chapter up is his Roosh day game model. And so it starts with the elderly opener. So this is asking for help and opinion or information.
(04:02):
You then go on to establishing a conversation,
by using small bait. So,
just talking about whatever thing it is that you're you're talking about. So for example, he would say,
if you're in a
store of stationery and things like that, and she's by the pen section, you might go and go up to her and asking like, oh, is that a good pen? And then
(04:26):
starting to ramble about,
the different types of pens. Is it a blue one? Do they come in different colors?
When you press on the page with that pen, does it leave ink stains? If you're writing right handed versus left handed,
Does the the quality of of the the metal on the outside degrade things like this? So you're really just
(04:47):
talking about general
nonsense in in essence. Like imagine
that you were particularly buying a
computer or whatever it is that your hobby that you're invested in, you're wanting to get like the best product, the best drone, the best new,
I don't know, kitchen cabinets, the best new plates, crockery, whatever it is that you would particularly find interesting and could talk about for ages. You have to do that with whatever is at hand. Well, when when you see a girl that you would like to meet. So
(05:19):
establishing the conversation, small bait, then you're dropping big bait. So then you would maybe,
transition onto
hinting at things like, yeah. You know, I actually found it really hard in Brazil to,
when I was overseas or when I was in Brazil to to find pens because they they don't seem to have the same writing culture that they do here in Australia,
whatever like that. And so you're trying to
(05:41):
drop little pieces which will,
essentially
direct the conversation to go into an area where it can show some interesting things about yourself that you've traveled, that you know a foreign language, that you have a,
a martial artist hobby, that that you like to do handstands. There's a couple of things for myself,
that you
once won an award for something that you have done this, that you
(06:05):
invested in this particular community,
whatever it is, whatever
things that would potentially make someone interested in you or that makes you an interesting person. You're trying to drop little things, to
to give her something to snag on to and start a conversation.
Once she is asking you personal,
conversations or questions, you then get into his final strategy here of of personal chat, which is asking, you know, things about herself
(06:33):
and then his Galenuk
ending routine, which is,
oh, are you half German?
Trying to just, you know, ask personal questions in return to her. How old are you? Where do you live?
What's your name? Where do you usually hang out? You seem cool. Do you want to grab a drink sometime
(06:53):
transitioning into the number? And then you, of course, leave.
So
you don't do that all in just one big hit. He he's saying, like, you know, when you ask someone if they're if they're half German, should probably follow that up because
if it's just a random thing to then go, oh, and how old are you? Oh, and, you know, he's really trying to avoid
the interview style
(07:14):
of,
of conversations
and make it a back and forth of,
of fun, of inserting humor, of small little stories, things like this. So
that is his general strategy.
A couple of rules of thumbs that you'll you'll find from this book is,
for 1, never touch a girl during the opener. So, you know, kind of waving in front of their face,
(07:36):
to get their attention. Don't forcibly stop her if you're on the street. Don't, you know, go up behind her and tap her on the back. You should always be trying to maneuver yourself so that you are not initiating physical contact,
on someone completely just out of the blue
approach. And so approaching from her in front with a pause of pool exclusive to why you're in the area,
(07:58):
giving a reason to why you're asking her, even if it's obvious,
or even if it's,
a just a pointless thing. So he talks about how there was a study
of,
this is I think from the book Real Robert Cialdini's Persuasion
where if you want to cut in line in a, in a context
(08:18):
of say you're at a university and wanting to use the printer, you can actually just go up to someone and say, hey, can I get in in front of you in the line? And, you know, some people will say yes. Some people will say no. But what about,
if you went up and say, hey, I want to, can I cut in line in front of you? I want to use the printer. Now, the
(08:39):
the reason you're asking is obvious, but that additional little extra step seems to just
make people way more acceptable for you for you doing that. So
similar sort of things,
you know, and having to be a little bit creative of of
a reason to why you would want to do it if it's not obvious.
So you could say, oh, excuse me, do you know where the skinny jeans are
(09:02):
in a retail store? And she'd be like, oh, I don't work here. And you'd go, oh, yeah, but you you seem like someone who would know about skinny jeans or someone who would, etcetera.
Or if you're commenting on
bakery goods, you could be asking the the person at the front counter, but you're like, oh, yeah. They they might,
try to say extra things to do the sale. So you're coming up with reasons as to why you're talking with her in particular.
(09:28):
Now he's got some stats in this book saying that,
on average you'll get probably 5 to 10%
numbers for however many approaches that you do. So if you do a 100, you'll maybe get 5 to 10 numbers,
30 to 50% if in niche venues and you're on fire.
It's better to approach in concentrated blocks. So if you had to do 15 in a in a week,
it
(09:51):
a in a week, it or 14, it it's better to do
one day where you just do 14 approaches rather than 2 a day,
for for the 7 days in a week.
For every hour spent approaching spend 15 minutes analyzing your mistakes and things that went well, things that didn't go well,
treating it kind of like a,
(10:13):
what doesn't get measured doesn't get managed sort of deal. So so keeping stats and numbers if you're if you're trying to do that,
stay in ramble as long as she is maintaining eye contact and not moving away attempt dropping bait multiple times. So really getting over this
insecurity, this this fear of being rejected
and
(10:34):
doing things to make it either clear cut that she wasn't interested
or she was and not having any of these conversations where you're afraid to just
say that extra line or do that extra thing
because she's giving off maybe lukewarm or mid warm
responses.
(10:54):
What about starting a convo right before you or her are leaving? So don't linger around, don't start a conversation,
have it interrupted by something. I can try and restart again or, you know, be in the same area just doing your work, that sort of thing.
A game is a practice and in particular is an active, dedicated practice. So if you work on this, you will get better.
(11:16):
And for example, he says, 10 minutes during the day is is about the same level of connection as 1 hour during the night. So it's very different. So if you're picking up girls during the night, you have to have a completely different strategy if you're trying to do it during the day.
And then finally has the optimal mindset is a relaxed attitude, a focus on building connection through fun conversation, self value and an acceptance that this is a numbers game in which hard work is rewarded.
(11:42):
Okay. So that's that's the general
strategy, the general things that he advocates for in this book.
Does it work? Well,
I can tell you this because absolutely it does work. So for those who don't know my background,
when I was a teenager in particular, so,
yeah, probably from puberty
(12:03):
into
about 20 years old,
I had a tremendous amount of anxiety,
in particular approach anxiety. So talking to people
and starting conversations,
whether it be with men or with men, women, but particularly with with women, with girls. And so
I
(12:23):
was what I consider a loser for a large period of that time in my life
and
suffered
tremendously because of that very much internally thinking in my head,
thinking that I'm a loser because I can't talk to girls because I don't know how to,
you know, initiate conversations to be fun,
to be happy, to be my myself in front of people because I would always kind of clam up. So I got to a point in my life where I went,
(12:51):
I need to change this. Like, I can't keep living like this. This is this is absolutely horrible.
And so I
had
found about a roof fee a long time ago. I knew a lot of these things and I said finally one day, like, I've had enough, I'm going to put this into practice. So in 2013,
my last year of university,
so I would have been 20 years old, I believe.
(13:14):
I, I said not okay. I'm going to do this. Obviously, whatever I'm doing in my normal day to day routine, how I normally live is not working because I'm not getting dates, I'm not interacting with women at all. I need to change that. So what I did was basically followed his advice to a tee. So I went around my university,
(13:34):
I went around
a bunch of different areas in Brisbane,
King George Square, Queen Street Mall in the city.
I talk to girls on the street. I talk to girls in
department stores. I talk to them in
the food courts. I talk to them in bookstores. I talk to them in a ridiculous amount of locations.
(13:56):
And I also followed his advice by keeping
a meticulous
level of notes and things like this.
So what I would essentially do is,
every day at the end of the day of of trying to talk to girls, I would say, you know, how many I talk to, what the kind of context was, what I did poorly, what I did well,
(14:18):
how it went, if I got a number, etcetera, etcetera.
So this spanned over
a couple of month periods,
when I was taking notes. So that June through to December type period.
Yep. November, December. Yep. And
I have some data, so I can share that with you. So I did a 149 approaches. I got 14 numbers, and 6 of them led to dates. So pretty much bang on what he was talking,
(14:46):
about with regards to stats. So a 149 approaches, 14 numbers, that's 10%.
And about half of them lead led to actual dates
with some, you know, numbers where the the girl would never respond or it just fizzled out or I could never get him on a date, etcetera, etcetera.
What
I noticed from this is whilst very slow going for the first fifty approaches, I got the the classic
(15:12):
beginners luck that you experience,
such as in you'll you'll find in talked about in books like this, The Alchemist,
where if you start a new venture, you do get a little bit of luck, and then it turns into a grind and and very hard. So I did get a a number,
well, actually girls Facebook on my very first approach,
5th
(15:32):
June 2013.
That was the
the start date of my life in in
a start date of a new version of Kya and someone completely different. I've got it written down right at the top here, 5th June
2013.
And,
also on my 4th approach. And then for the next 50, nothing.
(15:54):
So I was grinding away for a while. And then, yes, it is true. You do tend to get phases and periods where you will get a whole bunch of numbers and then nothing. And so,
particularly in the 60
to 70 range, I think I got, you know, 6 or 7. So it was like, woah, what the hell?
(16:16):
You know, this is where you might be going like, okay, well, this is getting into a little bit of,
you know, creepy category. It's you're just a dude,
like trying to trying to fuck women, get out in the day,
you know, have multiple women at once, this sort of thing.
What I can say is it helped me get my first real number, got helped me got my first real date, helped helped me get my first real kiss and to be sexually explicit, my first,
(16:43):
real fornication.
So
this was definitely one of those periods where it's like, okay, well,
sure.
The the the advocacy of what he's saying might not be up your style, but it certainly does get, results.
And I found this much more suited to my temperament and compared to,
some other ones, that he talked about, such as in Daybang, which, sorry, in Bang, which is,
(17:08):
you have to be clownish over the top
nagging girls,
which is
a negative is a neg is a backhanded compliment,
where you're
in essence
giving them a compliment, but it's it is actually lowering their self esteem, which is what you'll find in a quite a lot of the pickup artist books,
(17:32):
and being direct, being cocky. I never liked any of that.
But the
this book was very much suited to
me as a person. It's lower energy. It's more conversational.
You don't have to go out of your,
you know, you don't have to be in loud,
crazy chaotic environments. You can talk to a girl 1 on 1.
(17:54):
All of this was just way up more on my alley. That was another one of the rules of thumbs. Like, it's better just and easier just to talk to girls 1 on 1 rather than in groups.
So you should be focusing on that during the day.
And some of the advice in this book was very neutral for me.
It is very
mindset related in this. I'd say probably
(18:16):
a quarter of the book is about mindset of
getting over fear of anxiety, of rejection,
of feeling
shit about yourself because you get rejected.
All of the normal things that you will experience, not just in romantic relationships, but in work relationships
or, you know, applying to different jobs
(18:38):
or with friendships where friendships break apart and you realize someone doesn't want to be a friend anymore. All of these sorts of things,
there is something I personally find much more
ingrained to
my my worth as a person if it's sexually related. But, you know, that
obviously is just me in this in this context. So some of the advice he talks about in here, such as this rejection mindset of imagining the worst case scenario,
(19:04):
you go to a girl in a rest in a cafe,
and she turns looks at you like sneers points and laughs at you and is like, you really think a guy like you could get with a girl like me? Everyone in the in the building, in the in the cafe turns points at laughs at you. There is actually a jumbotron. Someone's recording this live and it's getting broadcast out to 50,000 people in a nearby stadium.
(19:28):
Negative visualization is what the stoics would call this
and
using that as yeah. Sure. That would feel shit, but go do it anyway. Do it to, you know, in spite of of the fear. And some people really find that helpful. Me, I've I've never really found
negative visualization in that context to be particularly helpful,
(19:50):
nor did this
alternative view of saying, like, you know, what's likely is going to happen is you'll just get a polite rejection, which is very much the case.
I don't recall any
real
weird
crazy things happening to me from
just talking to a girl randomly like this other than when I accidentally talked to the same girl twice with the same opener,
(20:14):
which was very awkward.
And that's like the worst case scenario. And
I did it and I survived. And it was like, okay, yeah, sure. That was
humiliating
and embarrassing for the
15 seconds when I realized, oh, shit, I talked to the same girl with the same opener twice, which actually, funnily enough, was using this Kindle. I had a book here,
(20:35):
which had the word axiomatic in it. And I had that bookmarked. So I would go to that page
and, you know, sit down near them and then ask, oh, excuse me, do you do you know what this word means?
And I did that to the same girl. It was pretty funny.
So he says, like, you know, you're most likely just gonna get a polite rejection.
If you were looking at this as God, we're looking at this, you know, zooming out from your location to your suburb, to your city, to your country, to the world as a whole, to the
(21:07):
infinitesimally
grand
nature that is the universe.
Is that polite rejection the worst thing that's gonna ever happen to you? No. Of course, it means nothing in the grand scheme, so do it.
I never found that particularly helpful. What I did find helpful was
this tough love.
Nobody gives a shit about you
(21:27):
destroying this
egotistical
feeling that I had for such a long time, which was,
I'm, you know, everyone's gonna notice me if I do this. When I sit on the bus, everyone's looking at me. If I say something wrong, if I do something, no, nobody cares.
Everyone's in their own world.
And I needed a
a nice big shock, rude awakening to
(21:51):
just how
selfish I don't know, self centered I was being,
many, many years of bus rides, of
judging myself so harshly from other people's eyes.
And it
was all a fantasy. There was none of that was true. None of that was true. So
you know that in that case, in this context, this book is
(22:13):
just as much motivational
and psychology driven as it is related to actual logistics and tactics of picking up girls,
which gets into this final little section here. Is this ethical?
Well, I think by the actions that you could look at this, they're they're by and large fine. You know, he's
very much saying, you know, don't physically interact with a girl during the day. So don't impose yourself upon her presence
(22:39):
that you should just be starting a bland conversation. You know, she won't even know if anything went wrong
because
if she just is is not interested in talking to you, then that's that's it. Like, that's the that's the end of the end of the conversation. Nothing has been
broken,
certainly in a law sense. And,
(23:01):
and I would even say in a, you know, what's the worst that can happen to her is a minor inconvenience
to her day.
Potentially thing.
Bruce talks about a lot of times that you you
have to be comfortable telling white lies to continue a conversation going,
oh, a friend told me this that happened. And it was just, you know, a friend never told you that you just were talking about something to keep the ramble going
(23:26):
because it is rather hard to talk about a pen for 3 to 5 minutes.
He usually says you want to aim for like 10 to 15 minutes to to try and
before you you go for a number to establish a connection. So it's not just a like, hey, I'm Karen, give me a number,
which sure can work, but you'll probably just get a whole bunch of fake numbers.
(23:49):
And so
he talks about this white lies, you know, is it a white lie to ask her information that's not particularly necessary?
Well, I think by the definition of a lie, no, but it's certainly unnecessary.
Is that a bad thing in itself?
Once upon a time, I would have thought, yeah,
the the strictly logistical engineering
(24:12):
part of Kyren would have said, yes, that is that is a
a liar or an untruth of some sort. Nowadays, I go like, man, if I look at all the conversations I have
more,
almost all of them
are not purely
strict informational
givings and backs and forths is talking for the sake of talking talking. It's, you know, establishing a connection. It's it's,
(24:37):
many times during the day, I like
I don't I don't really care how my brother slept, but I will still ask him, how did he sleep?
You know, things like that. So if you analyze any given conversation out on the street between people, all of it is is kind of useless and,
and not for
pure logistic
(24:59):
informational exchange.
One thing I'd say that,
I'd be I'd always been wary of is, is
strategies
of feeling like you're manipulating a girl.
This is a lot of what the pickup artist and when you hear about things like the backhanded compliments to make her feel bad,
so that she would then think that you are a higher value of her. Those are certainly ones where it's like, okay, yeah. You know, if if you're making someone feel bad, I definitely think that that's a bit of an ethical quandary.
(25:30):
But, Roche has a sentence in this that contradicts this. So he says, game doesn't exist to convince girls to have sex with you. It's just an efficient tool that allows to open individuals to have sex in a short amount of time,
which I think Hammers Holmes
that you're really on the back foot as a male. You are not the chooser
in in this situation. She gets to choose if if you
(25:52):
are worthy or not.
And that is just biologically driven, you know, make choices.
Men have,
the ability to have as many children in a short amount of time period as possible, whereas women have to be a lot more choosy because obviously with a pregnancy and things like that, the the onus and bird
is on them. So there's that biological constraint.
(26:15):
Therefore,
this is is getting really into
why
they are the ultimate chooser in this case and that whatever you think you can
do this slickest tongue, the smoothest talking, the
optimal way of
putting words here and there. I used to think this was maybe possible, but I I, yeah, I don't believe that anymore. I, you know, she's probably made a decision before you even say a word to her.
(26:41):
And that makes sense because this book would not exist otherwise for that. I kind of look at as a
but like you're saying there's strategy, there's there's ways of improving conversationally.
There's certainly ways of making yourself look better of grooming and things like this. He doesn't talk about that in the book, but,
in some other books and a lot of pickup artists, you you will hear about things like that.
(27:05):
Is that any different from makeup? No.
Our tactics and strategies
for manipulation
and coercion,
you know, that's
that's certainly more ethically dubious
yet.
Another analogy would be
I was a pretty decent soccer player.
(27:26):
You could maybe say I had a bit of talent,
when I was young because I didn't need to train as hard as other kids and I would be in a decent team.
Is them training harder
to get in the team and potentially take my spot? Is that ethically dubious? No, that's just improving. And
the this book is a lot of it's about self improvement as well as becoming a better conversationalist.
(27:51):
So these skills whilst applied
directly to women
is not just purely on that. You you can see how this would,
get into other areas.
No. The real moral dubiousness
is that there is an underlying mentality that dare I say is toxic.
Dare I say is majot misogynistic,
dare I say rapey and weird.
(28:13):
And I say these things because I know that it would absolutely rile Roshap if he ever saw this video because he was certainly in the SJW
SJW
social justice warrior,
culture wars of wokeness of things like that. When he was in the US,
he he was right in the thick of all of that as it was emerging
(28:34):
and
becoming more common, stronger, something like that.
And, you know, that's that's just funny. That's just me playing around. Now the the problem that you could maybe get from this book is that he advocates for viewing women as tools for sexual pleasure and and pretty much that,
that any niceties,
any weakness on your part, any affection, any beta behavior,
(28:58):
any valuing valuing of them upfront as a human being is bad. Bad because you will get punished and not get laid from it. And this is a book about getting laid. So shut the fuck up, Kyren.
Yeah. Well,
you know, I guess the ethics is beyond the book.
Because there is certainly portions of that in here.
There are portions and he makes many jokes about,
(29:20):
you know, just just being able to get your your peepee, your your your elongated snake into her love hole and things like that.
It's a bit crude. The humor is, you know,
I look at it now and I'm a bit like,
but
it certainly would be funny for
guys in their twenties who just wanna get laid for sure. Maybe guys in their thirties, maybe guys in their forties, fifties, sixties.
(29:43):
Who do I know?
That aspect of of viewing women just for sex,
I I think is not healthy.
So there's no doubt this book is for guys who
have a lower EQ.
And for this case, I'm assuming
that, you know, the emotional
quotient much like the intelligence quotient is more fixed.
(30:07):
And
like you can get better at IQ tests by practicing the the mini puzzles the,
you know, if this happens, this x y,
I think you can improve your EQ
in a similar way by becoming a better conversationalist.
And this book does that.
And
so therefore, you you need help forming a connection if you are someone like me.
(30:32):
This book skips the connection is all about the sex. I think as a throwback to last week's book review on Darren Hayes's
strategy
to overcome
his
insecurities,
his fears,
his feeling unlovable.
He went through the path of becoming famous to do that and getting wealthy.
(30:55):
And that ended up being pretty terrible, terrible
and not a long good long term strategy for
finding and
and solving curing
the problems that he felt within.
I think it's much the same here. If if you're looking for validation
through sex and sex alone,
(31:16):
you
sure it might work as a short term mental boost
and you'll feel good about it. But if you're doing that for the long term, you're going to realize you're just having sex with random girls. And
typically what you
tend to see
in these sorts of
pickup artist communities is that they
(31:37):
will focus on,
where how you can get sex the quickest and easiest. And so therefore, you're going towards girls who are probably lower quality because they are also looking for validation through sex
and quick hookups and things like that. So,
you know, it's it's kinda like damaged meets damaged and trying to solve your problems like that. But in terms of the meta ethics of this book, yes, the the tactics work and they will help you get laid. So,
(32:07):
we can see he himself shifts his focus over time. And let's jump onto that now. So the author and some extra details,
Boy, oh, boy, Rooshvi, aka Dheyush Valizadeh.
So he was an American guy. He is an American guy.
A little bit older than me. I think he was born in the eighties.
And,
(32:27):
I first found him through his blog.
So before that, he was I think he would describe himself as a microbiologist
loser,
very similar to myself and why I felt a connection to him was
pretty average. Just looking dude.
He
also struggled with connecting with women talking to them felt a lot of fear and anxiety.
(32:50):
He himself went down into pickup artists forums and things like this, and realized through his writing that he
could get out of his standard 9 to 5 job
and live a life that he wanted to pursue, which was of travel and picking up girls. So
he did that.
He
(33:11):
actually funnily enough the his travel memoir, a dead bat in Paraguay.
I haven't read that review that on this channel.
I've read that book a couple of times before. Yeah, I don't I don't think I'll read it anytime soon.
Was what inspired me to do my 14 month travel of Latin America, particularly South America.
And,
I have him to thank for that. So, I've
(33:33):
somewhat been a supporter of him over the years. I bought his books. I have
right on
a shirt of his right now. There's a fridge magnet outside.
So over the years, his style has changed from being
purely game sex related.
So he had Bang, then he had all of these
(33:53):
guides to particular countries and one called pussy paradise,
where he was in Poland,
where I'm actually fun, funnily enough, going in
May slash June. So maybe I would read that just for a laugh
into more politics and cultural sort of things. So the first time I ever heard
social justice warrior
or red pill
(34:15):
or the manosphere was in the context of his forums and things like this. Funny enough, one of the first places that I I heard about Bitcoin was in there as well.
And
he moved more into,
I guess,
politics in a sense because he was trying to do all of these
meetups, real life meetups,
(34:37):
And he essentially got shut down
and was almost kicked out of Canada. And he wrote a book called Free Speech Isn't Free about where
people
were
an anti ruche people were
denying him
access to
(34:58):
places
such as like if he booked
a hotel room or a hotel lobby that would call up the hotel and, you know, active
be activists
to to get that. Do you know you've got a pro rape, blah, blah, blah, blah person?
I actually remember
on
there was an Australian news site news.com.au
(35:19):
where he was front page one day on their online version
of
the
of Australia banning him or and he
he he drew like this stupid comic of like getting in through the back door through Tasmania or something
as a joke. And that became
national news in Australia, which is hilarious.
(35:41):
So he he then became somewhat jaded with sleeping around
and started advocating for more a
holistic approach to
finding a partner. And so you can see this in his books like game or lady.
So this was more in his later thirties, early forties,
before doing
I love this dude for this reason. Just a full 180 into Orthodox Christianity.
(36:06):
I think it was related to
probably, you know, large becoming disillusioned with with picking up girls and this being his whole hobby, career,
lifestyle
persona,
but also his his sister died of of cancer
and he had a mushroom trip, I think, just before or just after that,
(36:28):
which
who knows, maybe it changed to the neurochemistry in his brain.
But he became full on Orthodox Christian,
religious
born again, you know, it's so funny.
I love this story. So good.
And he wrote a book about that called American Pilgrim
(36:48):
wrote for a while after that about
really denouncing
his whole previous lifestyle. So
the meaningless of sex of
of the debauchery of American culture
of it was just
never have I seen a 180 of a person go so
different
(37:09):
over like a 5, 10 year period
just wild
and has now largely erased his presence from the Internet. And I think he's trying to
disassociate himself with
anything
of of what he is now because if you type Rishvi, go to Wikipedia, look at news articles, it's all about him,
and the the pickup artist stuff. So
(37:32):
just so crazy different.
It's this is why I love humanity. So funny.
So
myself, thankfully, I never got caught in the trap of
looking for validation
purely through sex. For me, it was I wanted to find a partner.
And
I did that pretty quickly on
it. For me, it was not about
(37:55):
getting
sex with many, many women becoming the ultimate player. For me, it was finding a girlfriend. And
so in that case,
you know, I
you could ask how many guys want to have unlimited sex with with the hottest babes that you can get? And the the answer is every guy
biologically speaking.
(38:18):
Just like
any person
with a
with a like a brain on them would if if they got unlimited access to
sweets, chocolates, the highest density, but
calorie
rich yet micronutrient
poor foods.
The obvious answer is just to eat all of that shit all the time. But you know, that that works for 2 days, one day maybe.
(38:42):
And then in the long term, it has
severe serious health risks and consequences to that.
The the pickup artist lifestyle is exactly the same.
You're indulging in really hedonistic behavior
for a short period of time, which is good. And then over the long period of time is bad. So
it's hollow. You'll probably just want a a connection in the end. So let's jump into the final section here summary similar books recommendations.
(39:08):
This is the single most important book I have ever read in my life and I've read this many many a time and I reread it recently,
so that I could do this book review.
What I don't know where I would be and who I would be without this book. You know, I
I'm sure I I think I've got the problem solving capabilities that I would have found a solution
(39:31):
to overcoming that fear and anxiety.
But the solution
might not have been pretty
in the extreme case. It could have been
suicide.
In a more likely case, it would have been
going down a path of
trying to meet girls during the night
and
(39:51):
adopting a bunch of behaviors that I dislike,
but I know I can push through. I know I can have the capacity to do things I don't like
in the pursuit of a of
a greater goal,
but I'm not sure about the person who I would have become in that process.
And
this this book
spoke to me and gave me
(40:14):
the
the knowledge of how to utilize
the instinctive,
not instinctive, the parts and natural parts of me that I think
do well,
and that are good.
And I wouldn't have to indulge in behaviors that I didn't like, such as nagging girls
or having to be cocky
(40:35):
and,
upfront brash,
a clown, a jokester, high energy,
which doesn't speak to me and which I I don't think is sustainable long term. So
the the advice I tried again recently at the gym and it's still rock solid. You know, talking with a girl about a yoga mat is much more of an easy introduction,
(40:57):
less likely to scare the cat as he,
he uses girls as as cats in this analogy and a lot throughout a lot of the book of not wanting to scare them. And this is why you do the elderly opener. This is why you do, you know, very casual, warm conversation leading up into personal questions.
Some parts of the book are very outdated.
The the classic pet store line, which I used for quite a few years,
(41:22):
it doesn't really make sense anymore because pet stores are not
I don't know any store
anywhere
where you can find
pets in the actual window to to look through them. Maybe, you know, it's still useful for, oh, I I want to buy food for
my my brother's dog or something like that, but
(41:43):
or buy a toy or something like that. So you can modify them, but the
some and and he also has tactics of
pretending to be ignorant about a phone and or what model is that? Does it have Internet and and things like that? And, you know, if you said that about a phone nowadays, you'd just
the girl would probably be like, how old are you actually?
(42:05):
Yet it essentially breaks down have how to have a normal conversation. I like his dry humor,
which helps break up some of the kind of tediousness of all of the example conversations that he provides in this book of
how a conversation will likely go why he says things the way he says it. So for me the book I mean,
(42:26):
jeez, I'm gonna have to give it the highest rating I've ever given a book a 9 and a half out of 10
day bang
by Roosh V. This thing this thing changed my life.
For other people just coming into it,
you know, it
I I don't know how helpful it'll well, obviously, it's not helpful for for women,
(42:46):
other than maybe
seeing like, oh, this guy is actually interested in me because he's approaching me in this style.
But
and for many guys, this would just be like,
this is just telling me how to have a normal conversation.
Yet, not all of us were born with the ability to understand how
our normal conversations work.
(43:08):
Shout out to all the engineers out there.
Other books similar to this. I mean, look, there's plenty of pickup artists literature out there. I'm sure there's people who
are similar to Rush in his style of what he says. I'm 100%
convinced that there are people on TikTok
talking about these very same things. How to get girls is always very interesting for guys in their
(43:31):
teens and twenties. And
I'm sure there's people with books coming out of that as well.
Once what I actually think to recommend though from this, it'd be things like Robert Cialdini's
persuasion
of how to win friends and influence People by Dale Carnegie.
You can you can go into pick up artist books like The Game by Neil Strauss. That's one of the classics, one of the first that was really ever written.
(43:57):
But that's
that's much more
introducing these things like peacocking,
wearing ridiculous shit out to nightclubs to set yourself apart
of nagging of
all the all the sort of like, I don't know what what's called the tactics, the real ingrained fine tuned,
more manipulative tactics
(44:19):
with a funny story attached to it because Neil Strauss is a good storyteller.
But I would focus honestly, I I
I think self help books have more in common with this than many of those books. So,
use that to,
your advantage.
Okay. Value for value. There's been a long one because this had most important book I've ever read. Gotta gotta give a decent book review of it. So
(44:43):
value for value, I put all of this information out there for you available anytime, anywhere, any place unlike this book because he, as I said, he's wiped a lot of his presence from online. So you're probably not gonna be able to get the the ebook version like I have.
You can still get them on Amazon and places like that, but, yeah, certainly much harder to to access his information than
(45:05):
than than previously.
Whereas this podcast available anytime, any place, anywhere for anyone.
Never gonna have sponsorships
nor advertising
on this podcast. And so to make this
sustainable long term, I need your support. I need you to provide some value back,
out of what you got from this this, 45
(45:26):
turning into 46, 47 minute long book review.
So liking, sharing, commenting,
all those sorts of things on social media. Joining in live is awesome.
Giving me book recommendations.
Your thoughts on this. Is it ethical to to,
get into,
you know, picking up girls in the day? I would love to know your thoughts on that. And then finally, there is a PayPal link down below if you wish to give some monetary support as well.
(45:53):
We, as I mentioned, I am live here as usual on 11 AM. Did have 2 people jumping in today. Johnny, classic Johnny from last week. Thank you very much. He left a very long, nice detailed
review of of Darren Hayes's,
or review a comment on Darren Hayes's book unlovable last week. So,
it's also worth jumping in and checking out some of the comments on these YouTube videos because they're good, as well as one and he's he's saying, damn, so not a quick little ear tickle to begin with.
(46:24):
That's risky, man. That's a high high risk, high reward strategy if you if you go out doing that.
How about you try that out and let me know how it goes?
So probably probably not advocated. No.
But I am gonna be live here as usual
on 11 AM Australian Eastern Standard Time on a Wednesday. What books are coming up? I'm gonna finish The Emperor of All Maladies, a book about cancer by Sadat
(46:49):
Sadatamukhaji.
I have my translation episode of The Alchemist the Ucalcu
alchemist coming up,
very shortly.
I have just started reading The Man Who Was Thursday by GK Chesterton.
And that's the the current,
books that are on the agenda. So,
(47:10):
and then whatever Juan's coming up with over this next period. So thank you very much for joining me as usual, and I will be here next week as usual. Chat for now. Kyron out. Bye.
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