December 16, 2024 • 48 mins
Ken and Ellie discuss how Metal music has impacted their lives and their shared experiences as music and audio educators. Ken elaborates on his songwriting process and the origins of his inspiration.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:07):
Hi, welcome to another episode of Metal Mastermind.
I am your Co host Ken Candelas, cofounder of Metal Mastermind
and we have of course our other Co host.
Elizabeth Candelas. That's right and so welcome and
this is actually we're taking a little bit of a different
approach this time. If you're listening on Spotify,
(00:28):
you'll actually of course see the video portion of this where
you can see us actually in a newroom.
We. Have a set.
We are, yes, we have a set now and we are setting up upcoming
content through this room to give you guys a little bit more
of a sort of a fireside chat style, yes podcast.
Fireside psychedelic wax warmer.Yes, actually.
(00:54):
And right here we are sitting with one of our, yeah, one of
our candles here, but with the Homeric brand, it's called the
Godless Candle, which is a peppermint, very cold type of
scent. We're clean.
And crispy. Yeah works really well for the
holidays. I'm really enjoying it.
(01:14):
This was made by Zeal Candles and they are partnering us to to
make some really cool stuff. So but welcome again.
And guys, I mean, like with Ellie, I mean fireside chats,
They're they're pretty valuable,I think because now we have a
bit of a way to interact that's a little bit more on the human
level, not with a screen in between.
(01:36):
Yeah, and. No like delays.
I could actually could actually have like a nice AB
conversation. Yeah.
Without me feeling like I'm interrupting you.
Yeah. And I prefer that.
I prefer that. It's nice.
It's nice to be able to do this and you know, here having this
makes it a little more comfortable for us too, to be
able to execute what we're trying to do here, which our
(02:00):
conversation today, we want to talk about education, education
for metal musicians in the metalcommunity.
And both of us we're, we're educators.
Is that right? Yep, Yep, we.
Are how long have you been teaching Ellie now?
I've been a vocal coach for about a decade now.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've been singing all my
life, but yeah, I started teaching about 10 years ago.
(02:22):
Wow, wow, wow. And what was what was your first
student like? Do you remember?
I mean, in the beginning it was super just like, you know,
friends or like people in schoolthat wanted to like learn a
couple things, like after school.
It wasn't like anything crazy incollege.
I went to college actually a little bit like later.
So I was a little bit older thansome of my some of my students,
(02:45):
my classmates. So I would tutor a lot,
especially with like the music theory side of it as well.
Yeah, tutoring. I think I got my start in
tutoring as well. It was a it was a very useful
part of my life to be able to feel out what it meant to be a
teacher. Although did you always intend
(03:09):
on being a teacher? Because I didn't.
I think yes, honestly, this is kind of dorky.
This is dorky and like, okay, you probably don't even know
this about me, but I remember when I was like a kid, I would
like make these like little signs that say like sign up for
vocal classes. That's cool.
And I would like tape them to like my bedroom wall as if
(03:29):
people could like see them. Like I just wanted to make like
a sign. I don't know.
That's cool. I mean, like I'm a singer and
like I'm I, that will be like my, my main thing, right?
But I really do get excited to like share what I know about
singing and like my techniques with other people.
And I feed off of energy, like that energy where people are
(03:51):
also very excited about singing.So it's always just a good time
for me. That's great.
I I just stumbled into it. I was not.
I was not. I gave you a little push too,
because like, like I said, I started college a little later.
So he had already finished college and he got a great
teaching opportunity. And I was like, you should do it
(04:11):
because you literally helped me get through college.
Like, you're just like, naturally good at teaching.
Thank you. No, for, for contacts.
I was, I was an audio technicianat some of these universities
and I was essentially just applying actually for another
technician job. But then at the job interview, I
(04:34):
did a demonstration on teaching instead.
And they were like, yeah, we want you as a teacher.
I was like. You're just so good at words
like I know like 5 words tops. You know.
You're just so good at speaking.Oh.
Thank you. It's it's been a journey.
I do enjoy teaching quite a lot and of course, it's changed my
(04:54):
entire life on how I, you know, do things.
So metal mastermind, if it wasn't for teaching metal
mastermind wouldn't have been a thing.
So there you go. But I guess I've always been
really intrigued about, you know, philosophy, you know,
learning. I've always had a very, you
(05:15):
know, thin skull for learning, trying to be a sponge.
They, they say, you know, have athin skull, but a thick skin
with these things. And I feel that as I've grown a
lot, a lot of that maturity and wisdom kind of begins to really
blossom. But I think, I mean, that's a
hopefully a natural progression for people.
(05:37):
Not everybody grows up, but everybody grows old.
But yeah, I mean, it's, it's thereality of things in in many
ways. And we have to be very
conscientious about our learningthroughout life, right?
Which is one of those things that I feel is super important
about what we do here at Mental Mastermind Education.
(05:58):
Your history with education. You want to expand a little bit
about what your path was like. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
So like my teaching style today comes from how I basically grew
up learning a lot of things thatI do know about singing and
(06:21):
performing and also my teachers.Growing up, I had some great
teachers, but then I had also some more like old school
teachers that it really affectedlike my confidence just as a
performer. Like I always knew that I was a
good singer, but like, was I good enough to be a performer?
(06:41):
That kind of stuff. It was always something that I
was like struggling with growingup because I just had teachers
that kind of, what's the word? Like their they would lash out
their insecurities on their students.
And I know that now, now that I'm older, but when you're a
kid, it's like you don't know any better.
(07:03):
You know, you just kind of like take it out on yourself.
So I'm very sensitive to that kind of thing.
Now that I'm a teacher, I have alot of experience teaching like
kids. And in those years that they
could really absorb a lot and they can even really absorb like
(07:24):
intention or just like vibes or just like any kind of negative
feelings from like they're from an, an adult or a teacher or a
parental figure. And that's something that I am
aware of and I'm very sensitive about.
So the main thing I teach about like the, the main thing that I
want to like instill in my students, whether they want to
(07:46):
learn how to perform or growl orget better at music theory or
songwriting, whatever it may be,it's important for them to know
what feels good and what feels wrong.
Like they have to be very intuitive with their own voice.
And once they are aware of like their own voice and they can
like really count on their intuition and feel confident in
(08:09):
their intuition, then they're pretty much set for life.
You know, they can, they can call shots.
And as a performer, you have to be able to call shots on stage
to put on a show, things go wrong, things change.
You have to really trust your intuition and your gut feeling.
And a lot of the time it's it's right, you know, we second guess
(08:30):
ourselves. So that's something very
important that I want to make sure my students understand
going into anything that they want to learn a vocal technique
wise. That's really, really great.
I wish I had you when I was a kid because when I was a kid, it
was, it was very much like, I think adults would just kind of
(08:54):
tell you off when when you were a kid, you know, it's like
you're just being stupid, you know, and.
It's also a generational thing too, because it's like, you
know, I talked to like, you know, like my, my mom, for
example. I'll talk to her about these
things. And, you know, the older
generations are also still learning.
Yeah. And open.
(09:15):
A lot of them are surprisingly very open to learning and
relieved knowing that there are answers to a lot of the
questions that they probably didn't know growing up.
Yeah, I mean, they would, they would literally just say, hey,
yeah, he's a little retarded. You know, it's just like, oh
man, that's not, that's not nice.
That's not a good thing to say. Yeah, well, they used to say
that all the time. Like in the early 2000s, it was
like on TV. And now it's just like, don't
(09:37):
say that. Yeah, don't say that on podcasts
either. Yeah.
Well, you know, it, context matters here, you know, and
it's, it's certainly a thing where when you decide to use
derogatory things like that, because it is derogatory now in,
in social norms to say stuff like that, you, you got to, you
got to be very careful. And when you're educating
(10:00):
somebody, it's very easy for them to feel inferior because
they're learning, they're tryingto learn.
They know they're in a position where they need to grow.
And so when you insult people inthat way too, it can be very, it
can be very harmful to self esteem.
And so, you know, we're not all perfect, but we all, you know,
even as educators, we're not perfect.
(10:21):
We try though, to always try to instill confidence in, in
students. And I think that's the biggest
thing a lot of the time, especially because I, I don't
teach children like you have. I teach collegiate, you know,
university level stuff, But I, Isee very similar things still in
older students where they come and they are willing to learn.
(10:46):
They know, they don't know what they need to know yet.
So by the time they get to someone like me, it's it's
really on me to address to them that they're learning process is
always a painful one. It's it's never like, you know,
you just, you just get it. Or I mean, some people can just
get it. But like most people, they need
(11:08):
time. They need time to sit with the
material to practice, especiallywith like music and you know,
even pro audio. It's a very kinesthetic thing
where you have to touch, you know, you know, gear to really
learn it and feel it out with your, you know.
Very hands on it's. So hands on.
(11:28):
So it's super important not to not to insult people because
people are very intelligent evenon their own.
And it doesn't mean that they just are stupid, it just means
they just haven't learned what they need to learn yet.
It's just ignorance, which is exactly what you would expect
from a student trying to learn something new for.
The fact that they're stepping into a classroom, it really says
(11:51):
a lot about their character, too.
You know, people sometimes will give up before even getting to
that point, right? You know.
I've had older students where I tell them, I said, I
congratulate you for taking thisstep to be in this class because
I know it's hard to go back to school at an older age.
And they're like, yes. Yeah, it's important to always
just reinvent yourself, you know?
(12:12):
Yeah, well, like Miles Davis. Miles Davis did that all the
time, you know, from like early jazz to, you know, 80s.
He was like switching up every single decade his entire self
so. Like, why not?
You know, you live once and it'slike you're creative and you
have ideas and, and like just especially like me as a singer,
(12:34):
not to get to sidetracked, but like I always looked up to Mike
Patton because first of all, hisvoice was dope.
And like, I like to try to sing like him.
Like a lot of my style comes from like Mike Patton, Devin
Townsend, but just like the weirdness and like the, the
grittiness of Mike Patton. Like I just, I loved that, you
know, and as a woman, I loved singing like that and shocking
(12:58):
people because of that. But anyway, I like that he was a
singer with projects, you know, he had artistry like, like every
album that he has different projects, different bands,
different genres. It was just wild, right?
Like he found so many different ways to just like artistically
express himself and like reinvent himself.
(13:20):
And it it kind of gave me like some like pause because I was
like, oh, I don't only have to be like this metal singer in
this, you know, one band and do this one kind of thing.
I could like try everything. You know, I can put out a jazz
like album with like Blues and like proggy influences.
And I can like put out like a pop Christmas album, you know, I
(13:43):
could do whatever I want, you know.
So it is important to reinvent yourself and just like challenge
your potential and, you know, like your creative ideas.
See how far you can go with themwhen they come to you.
One of the things that I tell students as well is in.
If you want to try something new, try writing lyrics in a
different language. Wait, I.
(14:04):
Never heard of this before, explain.
Because it's when you write lyrics, sometimes people forget
that because you're so comfortable with your language
that when you are writing for rhythms on your lyrics and
intonation, it's it's all dependent on your knowledge of
your own language. So when you try writing
(14:27):
something, let's say in Spanish or French, or you have to now
play with the intonations and the the downbeats of different
parts of that language and how it fits in the same phrase.
Yeah, you have to kind of rewardit to make it fit and.
Exercise is part of your brain, which is like a lot of critical
thinking, which I feel is super important for creativity.
(14:50):
I think critical thinking and creativity go really hand in
hand because if you're activating this sort of like
liquid flow of your brain that'sconstantly doing new types of,
you know, knowledge and paths with your neural synapses, I
think it makes just a little bitmore of a intuitive effort into
the next thing that you create. So you're opening up those roads
(15:12):
and giving yourself new maps andneural connections to do that.
I think it's really fascinating.What's your process with
songwriting? And I, I only ask this because
you are an educator and you do have a songwriting course on
middle Mastermind. So I know this is something that
you're familiar with like teaching.
So what is your songwriting process and how do you like
(15:32):
teach that to like your students?
So my songwriting process startsmostly with voice memos, very
similar to, as you know, you might just beatbox into your
phone, or you got some melody that you want to sing into your
phone, but sometimes you just like singing gibberish into it,
(15:52):
right? It starts there.
Then once I do that, most of thetime when I go to the computer
to write, I open up Logic. That's my first dog.
I'm actually a Pro Tools power user, but when I first start a
composition I started in Logic. Very user friendly.
Mostly because I think Logic hasreally great stock sounds that I
(16:16):
don't have. Alchemy is dope, yeah.
I don't, I don't have to think about what, you know, contact
library I want to use, you know,cuz then once you get to that
point, it's the difference between composition and
producing. And I'm not trying to produce at
that point, right? I'm trying to just compose.
So I go to logic and I start with like the basic like string
(16:38):
sample patches, horn sample patches, whatever it is that the
melody was inspired by. Sometimes I write melodies.
I'm like, oh, that's a great horn line or that's a great
string line or whatever. And I'll start there And I start
mapping it out that way. And most of my ideas are usually
like chunks of either riffs or chunks of themes, Like like I'm
(17:05):
super inspired by film scores and thematic scores
specifically. So like a John Williams or Hans
Zimmer. Those are my sort of like heroes
in terms of my inspirations for composition work.
But I always like infuse like this metal esque vibe.
So most of the time when I have like a theme, I'll usually also
(17:25):
have like an associated rhythm part because I'm a drummer.
So I'm just like always constantly playing around with
rhythms. So I'll start with a theme.
I have some percussion with that, and then I just start
building these things. And most of my composition work
then becomes a a way of how do Itransition from this theme to
this theme to this theme to thistheme?
And the art really is in those sequences.
(17:48):
And that's why I like Homeric stuff.
If you listen to it, it's like really long for music, but it's
constantly flowing and engaging music in the way that it's it's
made. And parts of that end up
becoming production decisions orthey are built into the
composition himself. But yeah, that's kind of how I
(18:09):
start with it. I'm usually a strings first kind
of guy, right? Because when I started composing
when I was like 15 years old, I was really into orchestration
because of The Legend of Zelda. And I tried to learn like Legend
(18:29):
of Zelda music by transcribing stuff, so that became part of my
palette. Was it just stuck in your head
because it's like all you would do like play Zelda and the music
would just like be an endless loop in your head and.
You. Yeah, yeah.
I had no girlfriends. I was really, I was really into
Zelda. I was so into Zelda when I was
(18:50):
like 12 years old and 13 years old.
I was like making guidebooks forother people on the Internet on
Zelda. Girls like that too.
It was like, I think when I remember, like, you know, in, in
games like Zelda, you have like rows of hearts as your life bar.
(19:10):
The maximum was like 2 rows of 10 hearts.
And I think like, early on in the game, I was able to get
players to have like an entire row of hearts when by that point
in time, you're only supposed tohave like 4.
So it was just like, I knew likeall these.
Put the hours in. Oh dear.
Yeah. Yeah.
(19:31):
I Yeah. I think that's a very
interesting and like Froggy Prague drummer, like highly like
hyper intelligent approach to like song.
No, but I like that because I mean, The thing is like I I
compose like a progressive metaland like there are moments where
(19:53):
I am very technical and very organized and have a system.
And then there's moments where I'm like I'm following the stem.
I'm just like. I'm not even, I'm an autopilot.
I'm not even thinking. I'm just like moving things
because it feels good and it feels right, you know, and I
make sure to save a copy when I when that happens.
It's important to be very aware when that's happening, when
(20:14):
you're just like going off the what's the word, geez.
I mean, I'm like you're, you're on a roll.
I was really going off the wagon.
That's not the right. I mean, I just think you're on
a. Roll.
Yeah. And like you're not really
thinking about it. And that's like, you know, fun.
Like that's when music making isfun.
But then having that structure where it's like, you know, save
a copy so that you can like playin that.
(20:36):
And then you you don't have, youdon't like accidentally ruin
what you worked on prior. Stuff like that.
Yeah. But like with my students, I try
to show them the structure side of it first because like when
they want to learn more about songwriting, they already know
that it's fun, you know? But maybe they hit like a like a
(20:57):
brick wall or something, or theydon't get to the point where the
song is complete. Or maybe they do write songs,
but they're just not confident in it and they think that they
need help with it and they just need somebody else who's written
so many songs to just get their eyes on it and like, really
like, care about what their message is.
And, you know, it's a lot of different reasons.
So really discovering what the student wants and what their
(21:21):
vision is, you can kind of create structure that makes
sense to them. It's like curated for them.
Yeah, that's that's a really nice approach because you're you
want to capitalize on the uniqueness of the person.
You have to especially creative.It's, it's not, Yeah, like we,
we talk about this in music theory all the time, but it's
like, do you need music theory to make music?
(21:44):
No. What is music theory good for
it. It's it's a way to help create
formulaic, repeatable results. Right, in a sense, I say
something yummy just like that too.
Like why? Why music theory?
Why do I need to know music theory I like?
I was a musician for years without knowing music theory.
It wasn't until I was in collegeI loved my classes, but I was in
(22:06):
college when I learned music theory.
You're a younger, so it's OK. I was a little bit older when I
started learning about it, but Iwas just like, OK, I know.
It's like, I love to write music, but now I know why it
works, right? You know?
And that's like the whole, that's the T of it all.
Like you unlock so much potential when you start to
understand why things sound the way they do and why things work
(22:29):
and why things don't work. And it's a puzzle, and it's fun
in that way. My, my, my experience.
Music theory has always been I, I, I felt compelled to write
music but not truly understand it until people started to
(22:50):
really ask me questions about what I was writing for me to
then have to try and answer that.
So over time it became more apparent to me that music theory
was a little bit more important than what I gave credit for,
Especially if you're trying to do something like, you know, you
and I, we write like a lot of symphonic metal type stuff, you
(23:13):
know, and mine's a little bit more, you know, film score S
with the hellish stuff and you've got like more of this
like dream metal thing going on.But there's still a lot of
elements that require multiple layers of musicianship.
So when you're recording for something like strings or horns
or, you know, even just piano orguitar, and you have session
(23:35):
musicians that are involved in that, it's becomes super
important that you write in a way that's useful for them to be
able to play. I have a question.
Is that when you realize like, damn, I'm really going to have
to like learn how to do this music theory?
Yeah. That was the moment when you're
just like the IT was passion driven, like learning.
(23:57):
It was, it was totally passion driven learning because in, in
college it, it happened during college while I was working on
the, my first album. And during that time, like I was
already beyond my music theory classes when I started to really
appreciate what I was even learning.
(24:20):
So at the time, I felt because Iwas writing for like, organ
strings, brass, woodwinds, all this stuff, because I had a
bunch of different friends in different classes and on their
breaks, I'd say, hey, between this class and this class come
into the studio, I've got it booked so that we can just like,
record it. And they would, you know,
(24:41):
educate me on like, what their parts were able to be played.
And I was like, oh, wow, OK, OK,so I should do this, this that.
I learned more about the articulations of instruments
that way. I learned how the coloration of
instrumentations worked as well.And that actually was more
compounded when I was working with Michael Romeo, because when
(25:05):
Michael Romeo from Symphony X, for those of you guys who don't
know he was, he was a big part of my second album, and you were
a part of that as well. Homerics, the circle of dead
children. There was an entire period of
time we took an entire year to reorchestrate the album because
of what I've learned from Mike, because he gave me all these
(25:29):
tidbits about like that string section and that guitar part.
They're clashing. Redo that or remix it or do
something about it. And he brought a lot of
awareness to my writing that waywhere, you know, what I'm
working on now, which is like preliminary ideas for subsequent
albums, has been just keeping those things a bit in mind as I
(25:55):
move forward. And so a lot of my process will
become in a way, somewhat of a reduction of from the
compositional phase, like all these different instruments that
maybe I have in mind. But then how does it blend in
with like metal and all this kind of stuff that I want to add
to it? I have to do a bit of a
reduction. Yeah.
(26:15):
And you know, I'm so glad that you really absorbed all of those
tips and you implemented in youralbum because like what I do
like and respect about you as a musician is that you're not
like, it's fine, let's just put it out there.
Like you want to make sure that it's pristine and it's exactly,
(26:36):
you have a vision, a very specific vision.
And I just remember the day whenyou you bought the East West.
Was it Composer Cloud? I'm saying right, Composer
Cloud. Yeah.
I just remember the day we were like in our other apartment and
you were just like, damn. And I was like, what is it?
(26:56):
And he was like, I I got to reorchestrate all these
instruments. Is that.
Yeah, I've had to change all these samples because now they
sound like crap compared to likethe East West samples.
But the articulations in East West are almost like the real
thing. Yeah, you know, And we live in a
good time where samples can do that.
You know, it's hard to tell sometimes if it's MIDI or not.
(27:18):
And you can really, you can. You can humanize them.
You could add a humanizer. Is that a thing?
Yeah, that's a thing, Right. OK, because it sounds like a
thing. You could add a humanizer.
It sounds human and that's exciting for me as a singer who
doesn't really play instruments very seriously.
Like I, I accompany myself. I know a little bit, but I'm not
like a good, like a real guitarist or anything like that.
(27:39):
I'm a singer and knowing that I can compose and, and like have
samples that sound so good and Ican really add like those
articulations. It's just a great time to be a
musician and a composer. Yeah, I agree with 100%.
It's been such a dream having the entire East West sample
(28:01):
library at my fingertips. And I think same goes for you
too. You've been using East West ever
since we started using East Weston Homeric.
That is the wifey perks. Yeah, I do use.
Your samples. Yeah, those, I mean samples are
are a great way of unleashing your creativity and and you can
make record quality stuff with samples.
(28:23):
It just matters how you use them.
And I learned a lot of those techniques while I was working
on Zelda Reorchestrated back when I was honestly 1617.
That's out, right? Can you link it somewhere
because it's so cool. Zelda Reorchestrated.
Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah.
You just look up Zreo. I'll find a way to link it.
Second quest. I'll put it in the e-mail.
(28:43):
Yeah, you can totally do that. Yeah, I played on.
I played on one of their new albums, which is a recreation of
the soundtrack of The Legend of Zelda The Wind Waker, which came
out in 2001 as a wow, so long ago or 2001, 2002, somewhere
around there. And that, that entire game I
(29:03):
played on the, the, the album that they remade on the
Ganondorf track, of course, 'cause it's just like the
baddest bad guy in in the history of Zelda, which is a
total thing that I will remember.
I know you were in a Zelda. We sat a different table during
lunchtime. But that's OK.
(29:26):
And yeah, so, yeah, well, you can check it out if you want to
listen to that. It's a it's a fun thing.
I use it as a educational resource too because I have the
scores. Oh, I have.
I, I have an older brother. He's three years older than me.
And he would always play like Kingdom Hearts Final Fantasy.
And I was like, I would just sitnext to him and like watch him
play. And I just loved the music.
(29:48):
The music was amazing and the music in Zelda's amazing because
you play the soundtrack sometimeand I get it, I do.
I do get it. Yeah, well, there's a quote from
Koji Kondo, who made The Legend of Zelda, and he said that he
would listen to all of his musicon repeat to see if he would
(30:09):
ever get tired of listening to it.
And that was a huge part of his workflow.
So that because he knew it was going to be background.
Loopable music is. That possible?
Well, I think in Sir, I think when when Koji said that, I
think he was very, very particular about how it looped
(30:30):
and, and also maybe the instrumentation that was used so
that when it looped, it didn't sound like it was bothersome.
I think it has a lot to also do with like, just like psycho
acoustics, you know, and how your brain like perceives things
and also at certain volumes of music, for example, like a
harpsichord, right? Very baroque instrument.
(30:54):
If you have the harpsichord pretty loud, it sounds very kind
of tinny and twangy and stuff like that.
But when you when you listen to it actually kind of quietly, it
sounds very pretty. So not a lot of these like
compression techniques that we use in modern music, but like
very, very dynamic music works very well with harpsichord
(31:17):
because it was supposed to be something that protruded in a
mix because it was a quiet instrument.
So it was very sharp in tone. So I think like choices of
instrumentation and how it played into the composition.
How the human brain just naturally reacts to certain
sounds and certain tones. That's what I think with the
process involved. Wow.
(31:37):
That's cool. That's another layer.
Yeah. And I, I kind of implement that
a little bit of when I teach my students because I think the
best way to do that and pay attention to those psycho
acoustic effects is by getting away from your computer, having
a bounce of your your song and like listening to it on
headphones on the way to work orputting it in your car.
(31:59):
Not necessarily listening for itas a production, but as like
music and paying attention to itas music.
And you got to like this is whatI say.
Maybe like some of you will understand what I'm like what I
mean, but you have to sniff somecoffee beans.
You know, when you're like buying a new perfume, you sniff
coffee beans to like refresh your, your sinuses so that
(32:21):
because after a while, everything kind of like ginger.
Well, ginger is, is cleansing the palate when you're eating
sushi. But Oh my God, my ADHD can't
handle this. Let me try to focus one second.
So when you're sniffing coffee beans, it helps because when you
buy a new perfume, everything starts to smell the same after a
while. And when you're like hyper
focused on moving MIDI around and adding this and like doing
(32:42):
this to the EQ and changing a million things, you got to take
a second. You got to like sniff some
coffee beans because you'll justlike make all these changes and
changes for hours and then end up with the same thing you
started with. And everything just sounds the
same and it blurs and you have to take those breaks.
And that's like something about back in the day when things were
analog, you were forced to take breaks because things needed to
(33:06):
rewind or it needed to restart. It would just take a while for
things to work. So you had those little smoke
breaks in between and your brainneeds that, you know,
everything's so fast now, but you have to make sure that you
know what you're doing with purpose and you're not just
getting lost in the lost in the stem, right?
You know. Absolutely, you have to recheck
(33:30):
yourself. You know, that's why in mixing
and you know, Nick Z our, our, our metal producer overlord
instructor, he, he talks about this all the time is when you're
mixing, you got to take frequentbreaks so that you can reset and
just like focus again, because sometimes you just get.
Studio head, walk around the apartment.
Like, take a walk outside, walk your dog, make yourself like,
(33:50):
you know, drink some water. Yeah, big glass of water.
Yeah, man, I forget that all thetime.
She's just like, drink water. I was like, OK.
I do say that a lot. To you Yep, Yep.
But it's it's true though. I mean like just resetting.
Recalibrating yourself is important part of the.
Some coffee beans. Yeah, yeah, I agree.
(34:10):
I. Should make merch that says
that. Sniff some coffee beans.
Yeah, audio. With like an analog mixer on it?
I don't know. Well, if you want to smell
something really nice again, here's our our candle here,
Homeric. I'm sorry, I've got this.
I was very impressed by that, yeah.
You know, because, well, while we're talking about scents,
(34:32):
right, just to reiterate, right,we have our candle here.
It's made by Zeal Candles. We sell it on our metal
mastermind shop. That's shop.metalmastermind.com
or metal mastermindshop.com, either one.
And this one is, like I said, a peppermint sort of, you know,
very, very Christmasy in a sense.
Yeah, It's like it's got a Christmasy scent, but it's it's
(34:53):
a little bit more. Fresh and clean, Yeah.
It's not overwhelming. It just it's like when you walk
in your house and like it smellslike clean.
Yeah. Fresh and like crisp snow.
Something like that. Crisp, yeah.
Snow. The whole idea, when we were
making it, we were like, oh, we want something frosty.
And we, you know, we, we experimented with like Juniper
and stuff like that and we came across this one and it, it
(35:16):
turned out to be one of our favorite.
I love it and. The artwork is beautiful.
I mean as some of you already know, the artwork for Homeric is
all hand painted by like giant paintings.
Like they've been mill gate years to do so.
This artwork is very special. Yeah, and it's all over.
My shirt right now, if you if the the visual listeners, it's
(35:38):
an oxymoron. You can see.
Yeah, that's really good stuff. So yeah, I mean, when we made
Homeric, I always wanted it to be a sort of a sensory
experience. And so the the candles are
actually designed to be listenedwith the album or while reading
the book so that while you are, you know, going through the
(35:58):
journey, you're listening ideally in immersive.
So Dolby Atmos is the format andyou can sort of smell as you go
through the Inferno and the story arc of Morgana and Dante
and it's just, it's just such a cool experience.
It's something a little bit different that we wanted to
(36:19):
formulate as a concept. So, but yeah, with Metal
Mastermind, we, we wanted to useHomeric as a as also as a
teaching tool because we. Put a lot of work into it.
We put a lot of work into. It it's the best example to use
to, you know, people that want to do that as well.
And, and in different facets, you know, I think one of the
(36:42):
biggest lessons I, I get from home, Eric, is the, the patience
and diligence to create something that you've always
envisioned and having the power in your hands to be able to do
that is very rewarding. It takes a very long time.
You know that I'm not going to sugarcoat that.
(37:02):
It takes a long time to get to apoint where we even got here
because this required a relentless amount of passion,
dedication. I mean, how many times were
there interruptions in this project?
I mean, it was like, and some ofthem were huge, so, but the
project's still alive. And that was part of my life
(37:25):
journey, if you really think about it, and part of yours too.
Yeah, yeah. And one important thing to say
is that even though it did take you a good amount of time to get
the album the way you wanted, you knew when it was done.
I did. Yes.
So from the beginning, all thoselike, you know, changes or like
building on it or like just finding ways to elevate it, you
(37:47):
always know what it was supposedto look like at the end.
And when it looked like that, you knew when it was done.
And that really comes from just like confidence in your own
craft because no one's going to understand it or get it or see
it like you do until you create it.
And then you can share it with the world, right?
You know, So, you know, we are like preaching about, you know,
(38:10):
making sure it sounds the way you want it and, you know,
taking that journey and being patient with your craft.
But to really listen to your intuition, that's a huge part of
the process, you know? You know when it's done and you
feel really good about it, and that's when it's time to share
it with the world. 100% yeah. You need to have that, you know,
(38:31):
confidence in your project to dothat.
And I mean, that's what Middle Mastermind is really built off
of. It's, it's, it's all about us
sharing our knowledge and our resources with the world in
order to be able to empower other people to do very similar
things. You know, when we talk about
(38:51):
stuff like home Eric or even your project Deosa, it's a lot
of just passion for what we do. And we use it as a tool to teach
others that not to do it necessarily like us, but to do
it in a way that empowers them. So our methods or our styles of
(39:15):
music, not everybody necessarilyneeds to like our style, but
there's no denying that there are elements in what we do that
are teaching opportunities. And that's what we're trying to
capitalize on when we talk aboutHomeric or Deoso or anything
that gets involved with Metal Mastermind.
And so, you know, based on our experience, that's what I feel
(39:38):
to be a very rewarding part of our process.
You know, it's nice to be able to at this point, having gone
through the inferno of making this album and just being able
to share that with others and express our experiences, our our
journey, hopefully in a way thathelps inspire you, but also in a
(40:01):
way that empowers you. Yeah, absolutely.
That journey of to to get to that milestone was a huge, like
impact in your life. And you have so much to teach
and offer to the world along with Homeric itself.
Just the whole process, you know, anyone that is going
(40:22):
through something similar and you know, yeah, like you said,
progressive metal, symphonic metal, It's it's very technical,
it's very complex. But even like the most simplest
songs, there is like a scale of that very similar process of
getting it to that point of it being done right.
And there's so much to learn along the way.
(40:43):
And I mean, we just want to teach it.
We just really want to like, share that.
We're very passionate about it. And you know, it's just exciting
to be around those people that have that same goal as well.
Yeah, and you know, that I want to shout out also the rest of
the team at Metal Mastermind, you know, Nick Z, Rich Gray,
(41:06):
Alfred Potter, Emily Bryden, youguys, you guys are awesome as
part of the Middle Mastermind team.
Very, very supportive. You know, we we talked a little
bit about this last time, but I think it's out in the open now.
And we, we just want to, you know, give also some grace to
Jason Stallworth for helping, you know, elevate Middle
(41:29):
Mastermind to a point in our, you know, development that we
are able to do this today. You know, we're not for Jason.
And you know, his efforts behindthe first four years of Metal
Mastermind. We wouldn't be where we are
either. So shout out to you too, man.
And, and all of the people that watch Metal Mastermind, all of
you guys have been amazing supporters.
(41:52):
Even through this abundant change.
Yes, there's a lot of change that's been happening these, you
know, past two months, especially from November into
December. You know, now we have the Inner
Circle as our primary service here at Metal Mastermind, which
is to give you guys continuous access to new updates to new
(42:16):
lessons. We're constantly updating this
stuff. We're adding contract templates,
we're adding mixing templates, we're adding, you know, ebooks,
we're adding a lot of stuff. Now it's.
Just the beginning too. This is just the beginning, but
yeah, the inner circle is like what we're really, really
passionate about and what we're focusing a lot of our time on.
(42:37):
We actually just launched 3 new guitar courses this month.
Yeah, from Alfred Potter. That's the Slow MO Suite.
We also have killer scale runs and E twos for electric guitar.
They're fantastic courses. I we were, we were uploading
them. We were just saying to each
other. How you know Alfred and his
teaching style? It's so oh.
(42:58):
When I was uploading that course, I was watching every
single video. It's as beautiful.
It's as a beautiful course. Like he's so good.
And like the the music choices, the backing tracks are all just
so good too. Yep.
And I'm like, OK, people are gonna love this, Yes.
It's great. Alfred is so talented.
He's and he's and he's a really,really talented instructor too.
(43:19):
So be sure to check it out. If you want to join the inner
circle, go to metalmastermind.com/the Dash
Inner Dash Circle and you'll getaccess to, you know, all of the
courses that we've had on Metal Mastermind as well as these new
courses that are exclusive to the inner circle as well as all
(43:40):
the bonuses. So you know, if you're a metal
musician, a metal producer or someone who wants to get
involved in this industry, the Inner Circle is really that one
resource that we've made so thatyou have access to all of that.
And actually bonus if you are part of the inner circle for a
(44:01):
certain amount of time. We actually have some milestones
for you which we've been partnering with some of our
friends and other audio companies and as well as
Sweetwater to get you guys educational discounts.
So if you are hitting these milestones of how long you've
been a student, big discounts. Too.
They're some, they're like 50% off some.
(44:22):
Of them are really. Audio companies like saving like
hundreds and hundreds of dollars.
Oh my gosh, so equipment, I'm just super grateful for
everybody that's decided to partner with us because it's
evident that people do want to be a part of something that
enriches other people. We love that.
We want, you know, all of these resources to be accessible to
(44:46):
you. So this just makes it that much
more of a foundational structure, I think for a lot of
people, because now we're entering, we're talking about
education, but we're talking about now we're entering a new
world of education. I'm not going to sugar coat it.
I've seen it as an as a university professor.
A lot of the universities are starting to struggle with
(45:06):
attendance, which is very interesting to me because I
think the trend has been self learning, right?
People are using the Internet, they're using online tools.
They're like, I can just learn this stuff online or go to
YouTube, But you know, when you go to YouTube, you have to
search for everything that you want to learn for.
(45:27):
And it's not really a structuredplace, but you don't want to
spend, you get. So many different types of
opinions and and sometimes contradicting things and.
Yeah, I mean. It's good to just, you know, go
to a source that you can really depend on and like a methodology
that you can really rely on and learn from, just like the
structure of a university without the tuition of a.
(45:49):
University, right? Exactly.
That's that's, that's really what what we're getting at here.
And remedial courses. You don't have to learn Biology
one 01, right? No metal mastermind is very,
very simple. You know, we teach music
performance, audio technology, music business, all for the
metal musician that's. Everything you need to know to
be the entire package and make it as a indie metal musician in
(46:15):
it's day and age. Yeah, and we're coming up with
new content now. We're about to go in and
actually record some content foranalog signal flow, so you can
learn what it's like to to work with an SSL.
And then we're also got upcomingcontent about what does it take
to make a music video. We've got music business,
(46:36):
interviews with publicists, AD agencies.
Metal vocals. Radio promo, we've got metal
vocals. We've got so many things coming
down the pipeline. I'm working on Adobe Atmos
course. I mean, guys, this is like super
exciting stuff for us. All day, everyday.
This is what we do. This is what we do, right?
We just like every time we talk now, it's just like, oh, what
(46:58):
are we doing for like, you know,metal Mastermind and, and it's
so exciting. I'm really, really happy to to
see this new chapter of Metal Mastermind open up because
things are coming down and coming down fast, which is
great, you know. So on that note, everybody,
thank you so much for attending our new podcast.
We hope that you enjoyed it. Ellie, do you have any last
(47:20):
words you wanna you wanna share with the group?
I'm just happy to be part of this podcast.
I think it's super cool. A little nerve wracking at
first, you know, because you know, like I, I listened to the
podcast, I was a guest on the podcast a few times in the past
and like you and Jason, a prettydynamic duo.
But like, I feel like I've gotten a lot of positive
(47:41):
feedback from a lot of people and a lot of women too.
And like, I got, you know, people saying like they're just
happy to see more women in the metal community.
And, you know, I have a lot to say and a lot to share.
So I'm happy that I have this opportunity to do that here and
with such an amazing, strong andsupportive community.
(48:01):
Well, that's beautiful and we'rewe're honored to have you as
well. So thanks that on that note,
guys, you know, just constantly fight the good fight.
Continue to do what you're doing.
And you know, if you ever need resources, you could always come
to metalmastermind.com and find those resources for you.
(48:22):
But as we always say, you know, this is, well, this is the
ultimate resource for metal musicians.
But we also always say create your own sound because we do
feel that your uniqueness is what makes you special in making
the next generation of music thrive and stay alive.
(48:43):
So. No pressure.
There you go. All right.
Thank you. Everybody.
Take care. Bye.
Hi, welcome to another episode of Metal Mastermind.
I am your Co host Ken Candelas, cofounder of Metal Mastermind
and we have of course our other Co host.
Elizabeth Candelas. That's right and so welcome and
this is actually we're taking a little bit of a different
approach this time. If you're listening on Spotify,
(00:28):
you'll actually of course see the video portion of this where
you can see us actually in a newroom.
We. Have a set.
We are, yes, we have a set now and we are setting up upcoming
content through this room to give you guys a little bit more
of a sort of a fireside chat style, yes podcast.
Fireside psychedelic wax warmer.Yes, actually.
(00:54):
And right here we are sitting with one of our, yeah, one of
our candles here, but with the Homeric brand, it's called the
Godless Candle, which is a peppermint, very cold type of
scent. We're clean.
And crispy. Yeah works really well for the
holidays. I'm really enjoying it.
(01:14):
This was made by Zeal Candles and they are partnering us to to
make some really cool stuff. So but welcome again.
And guys, I mean, like with Ellie, I mean fireside chats,
They're they're pretty valuable,I think because now we have a
bit of a way to interact that's a little bit more on the human
level, not with a screen in between.
(01:36):
Yeah, and. No like delays.
I could actually could actually have like a nice AB
conversation. Yeah.
Without me feeling like I'm interrupting you.
Yeah. And I prefer that.
I prefer that. It's nice.
It's nice to be able to do this and you know, here having this
makes it a little more comfortable for us too, to be
able to execute what we're trying to do here, which our
(02:00):
conversation today, we want to talk about education, education
for metal musicians in the metalcommunity.
And both of us we're, we're educators.
Is that right? Yep, Yep, we.
Are how long have you been teaching Ellie now?
I've been a vocal coach for about a decade now.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've been singing all my
life, but yeah, I started teaching about 10 years ago.
(02:22):
Wow, wow, wow. And what was what was your first
student like? Do you remember?
I mean, in the beginning it was super just like, you know,
friends or like people in schoolthat wanted to like learn a
couple things, like after school.
It wasn't like anything crazy incollege.
I went to college actually a little bit like later.
So I was a little bit older thansome of my some of my students,
(02:45):
my classmates. So I would tutor a lot,
especially with like the music theory side of it as well.
Yeah, tutoring. I think I got my start in
tutoring as well. It was a it was a very useful
part of my life to be able to feel out what it meant to be a
teacher. Although did you always intend
(03:09):
on being a teacher? Because I didn't.
I think yes, honestly, this is kind of dorky.
This is dorky and like, okay, you probably don't even know
this about me, but I remember when I was like a kid, I would
like make these like little signs that say like sign up for
vocal classes. That's cool.
And I would like tape them to like my bedroom wall as if
(03:29):
people could like see them. Like I just wanted to make like
a sign. I don't know.
That's cool. I mean, like I'm a singer and
like I'm I, that will be like my, my main thing, right?
But I really do get excited to like share what I know about
singing and like my techniques with other people.
And I feed off of energy, like that energy where people are
(03:51):
also very excited about singing.So it's always just a good time
for me. That's great.
I I just stumbled into it. I was not.
I was not. I gave you a little push too,
because like, like I said, I started college a little later.
So he had already finished college and he got a great
teaching opportunity. And I was like, you should do it
(04:11):
because you literally helped me get through college.
Like, you're just like, naturally good at teaching.
Thank you. No, for, for contacts.
I was, I was an audio technicianat some of these universities
and I was essentially just applying actually for another
technician job. But then at the job interview, I
(04:34):
did a demonstration on teaching instead.
And they were like, yeah, we want you as a teacher.
I was like. You're just so good at words
like I know like 5 words tops. You know.
You're just so good at speaking.Oh.
Thank you. It's it's been a journey.
I do enjoy teaching quite a lot and of course, it's changed my
(04:54):
entire life on how I, you know, do things.
So metal mastermind, if it wasn't for teaching metal
mastermind wouldn't have been a thing.
So there you go. But I guess I've always been
really intrigued about, you know, philosophy, you know,
learning. I've always had a very, you
(05:15):
know, thin skull for learning, trying to be a sponge.
They, they say, you know, have athin skull, but a thick skin
with these things. And I feel that as I've grown a
lot, a lot of that maturity and wisdom kind of begins to really
blossom. But I think, I mean, that's a
hopefully a natural progression for people.
(05:37):
Not everybody grows up, but everybody grows old.
But yeah, I mean, it's, it's thereality of things in in many
ways. And we have to be very
conscientious about our learningthroughout life, right?
Which is one of those things that I feel is super important
about what we do here at Mental Mastermind Education.
(05:58):
Your history with education. You want to expand a little bit
about what your path was like. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
So like my teaching style today comes from how I basically grew
up learning a lot of things thatI do know about singing and
(06:21):
performing and also my teachers.Growing up, I had some great
teachers, but then I had also some more like old school
teachers that it really affectedlike my confidence just as a
performer. Like I always knew that I was a
good singer, but like, was I good enough to be a performer?
(06:41):
That kind of stuff. It was always something that I
was like struggling with growingup because I just had teachers
that kind of, what's the word? Like their they would lash out
their insecurities on their students.
And I know that now, now that I'm older, but when you're a
kid, it's like you don't know any better.
(07:03):
You know, you just kind of like take it out on yourself.
So I'm very sensitive to that kind of thing.
Now that I'm a teacher, I have alot of experience teaching like
kids. And in those years that they
could really absorb a lot and they can even really absorb like
(07:24):
intention or just like vibes or just like any kind of negative
feelings from like they're from an, an adult or a teacher or a
parental figure. And that's something that I am
aware of and I'm very sensitive about.
So the main thing I teach about like the, the main thing that I
want to like instill in my students, whether they want to
(07:46):
learn how to perform or growl orget better at music theory or
songwriting, whatever it may be,it's important for them to know
what feels good and what feels wrong.
Like they have to be very intuitive with their own voice.
And once they are aware of like their own voice and they can
like really count on their intuition and feel confident in
(08:09):
their intuition, then they're pretty much set for life.
You know, they can, they can call shots.
And as a performer, you have to be able to call shots on stage
to put on a show, things go wrong, things change.
You have to really trust your intuition and your gut feeling.
And a lot of the time it's it's right, you know, we second guess
(08:30):
ourselves. So that's something very
important that I want to make sure my students understand
going into anything that they want to learn a vocal technique
wise. That's really, really great.
I wish I had you when I was a kid because when I was a kid, it
was, it was very much like, I think adults would just kind of
(08:54):
tell you off when when you were a kid, you know, it's like
you're just being stupid, you know, and.
It's also a generational thing too, because it's like, you
know, I talked to like, you know, like my, my mom, for
example. I'll talk to her about these
things. And, you know, the older
generations are also still learning.
Yeah. And open.
(09:15):
A lot of them are surprisingly very open to learning and
relieved knowing that there are answers to a lot of the
questions that they probably didn't know growing up.
Yeah, I mean, they would, they would literally just say, hey,
yeah, he's a little retarded. You know, it's just like, oh
man, that's not, that's not nice.
That's not a good thing to say. Yeah, well, they used to say
that all the time. Like in the early 2000s, it was
like on TV. And now it's just like, don't
(09:37):
say that. Yeah, don't say that on podcasts
either. Yeah.
Well, you know, it, context matters here, you know, and
it's, it's certainly a thing where when you decide to use
derogatory things like that, because it is derogatory now in,
in social norms to say stuff like that, you, you got to, you
got to be very careful. And when you're educating
(10:00):
somebody, it's very easy for them to feel inferior because
they're learning, they're tryingto learn.
They know they're in a position where they need to grow.
And so when you insult people inthat way too, it can be very, it
can be very harmful to self esteem.
And so, you know, we're not all perfect, but we all, you know,
even as educators, we're not perfect.
(10:21):
We try though, to always try to instill confidence in, in
students. And I think that's the biggest
thing a lot of the time, especially because I, I don't
teach children like you have. I teach collegiate, you know,
university level stuff, But I, Isee very similar things still in
older students where they come and they are willing to learn.
(10:46):
They know, they don't know what they need to know yet.
So by the time they get to someone like me, it's it's
really on me to address to them that they're learning process is
always a painful one. It's it's never like, you know,
you just, you just get it. Or I mean, some people can just
get it. But like most people, they need
(11:08):
time. They need time to sit with the
material to practice, especiallywith like music and you know,
even pro audio. It's a very kinesthetic thing
where you have to touch, you know, you know, gear to really
learn it and feel it out with your, you know.
Very hands on it's. So hands on.
(11:28):
So it's super important not to not to insult people because
people are very intelligent evenon their own.
And it doesn't mean that they just are stupid, it just means
they just haven't learned what they need to learn yet.
It's just ignorance, which is exactly what you would expect
from a student trying to learn something new for.
The fact that they're stepping into a classroom, it really says
(11:51):
a lot about their character, too.
You know, people sometimes will give up before even getting to
that point, right? You know.
I've had older students where I tell them, I said, I
congratulate you for taking thisstep to be in this class because
I know it's hard to go back to school at an older age.
And they're like, yes. Yeah, it's important to always
just reinvent yourself, you know?
(12:12):
Yeah, well, like Miles Davis. Miles Davis did that all the
time, you know, from like early jazz to, you know, 80s.
He was like switching up every single decade his entire self
so. Like, why not?
You know, you live once and it'slike you're creative and you
have ideas and, and like just especially like me as a singer,
(12:34):
not to get to sidetracked, but like I always looked up to Mike
Patton because first of all, hisvoice was dope.
And like, I like to try to sing like him.
Like a lot of my style comes from like Mike Patton, Devin
Townsend, but just like the weirdness and like the, the
grittiness of Mike Patton. Like I just, I loved that, you
know, and as a woman, I loved singing like that and shocking
(12:58):
people because of that. But anyway, I like that he was a
singer with projects, you know, he had artistry like, like every
album that he has different projects, different bands,
different genres. It was just wild, right?
Like he found so many different ways to just like artistically
express himself and like reinvent himself.
(13:20):
And it it kind of gave me like some like pause because I was
like, oh, I don't only have to be like this metal singer in
this, you know, one band and do this one kind of thing.
I could like try everything. You know, I can put out a jazz
like album with like Blues and like proggy influences.
And I can like put out like a pop Christmas album, you know, I
(13:43):
could do whatever I want, you know.
So it is important to reinvent yourself and just like challenge
your potential and, you know, like your creative ideas.
See how far you can go with themwhen they come to you.
One of the things that I tell students as well is in.
If you want to try something new, try writing lyrics in a
different language. Wait, I.
(14:04):
Never heard of this before, explain.
Because it's when you write lyrics, sometimes people forget
that because you're so comfortable with your language
that when you are writing for rhythms on your lyrics and
intonation, it's it's all dependent on your knowledge of
your own language. So when you try writing
(14:27):
something, let's say in Spanish or French, or you have to now
play with the intonations and the the downbeats of different
parts of that language and how it fits in the same phrase.
Yeah, you have to kind of rewardit to make it fit and.
Exercise is part of your brain, which is like a lot of critical
thinking, which I feel is super important for creativity.
(14:50):
I think critical thinking and creativity go really hand in
hand because if you're activating this sort of like
liquid flow of your brain that'sconstantly doing new types of,
you know, knowledge and paths with your neural synapses, I
think it makes just a little bitmore of a intuitive effort into
the next thing that you create. So you're opening up those roads
(15:12):
and giving yourself new maps andneural connections to do that.
I think it's really fascinating.What's your process with
songwriting? And I, I only ask this because
you are an educator and you do have a songwriting course on
middle Mastermind. So I know this is something that
you're familiar with like teaching.
So what is your songwriting process and how do you like
(15:32):
teach that to like your students?
So my songwriting process startsmostly with voice memos, very
similar to, as you know, you might just beatbox into your
phone, or you got some melody that you want to sing into your
phone, but sometimes you just like singing gibberish into it,
(15:52):
right? It starts there.
Then once I do that, most of thetime when I go to the computer
to write, I open up Logic. That's my first dog.
I'm actually a Pro Tools power user, but when I first start a
composition I started in Logic. Very user friendly.
Mostly because I think Logic hasreally great stock sounds that I
(16:16):
don't have. Alchemy is dope, yeah.
I don't, I don't have to think about what, you know, contact
library I want to use, you know,cuz then once you get to that
point, it's the difference between composition and
producing. And I'm not trying to produce at
that point, right? I'm trying to just compose.
So I go to logic and I start with like the basic like string
(16:38):
sample patches, horn sample patches, whatever it is that the
melody was inspired by. Sometimes I write melodies.
I'm like, oh, that's a great horn line or that's a great
string line or whatever. And I'll start there And I start
mapping it out that way. And most of my ideas are usually
like chunks of either riffs or chunks of themes, Like like I'm
(17:05):
super inspired by film scores and thematic scores
specifically. So like a John Williams or Hans
Zimmer. Those are my sort of like heroes
in terms of my inspirations for composition work.
But I always like infuse like this metal esque vibe.
So most of the time when I have like a theme, I'll usually also
(17:25):
have like an associated rhythm part because I'm a drummer.
So I'm just like always constantly playing around with
rhythms. So I'll start with a theme.
I have some percussion with that, and then I just start
building these things. And most of my composition work
then becomes a a way of how do Itransition from this theme to
this theme to this theme to thistheme?
And the art really is in those sequences.
(17:48):
And that's why I like Homeric stuff.
If you listen to it, it's like really long for music, but it's
constantly flowing and engaging music in the way that it's it's
made. And parts of that end up
becoming production decisions orthey are built into the
composition himself. But yeah, that's kind of how I
(18:09):
start with it. I'm usually a strings first kind
of guy, right? Because when I started composing
when I was like 15 years old, I was really into orchestration
because of The Legend of Zelda. And I tried to learn like Legend
(18:29):
of Zelda music by transcribing stuff, so that became part of my
palette. Was it just stuck in your head
because it's like all you would do like play Zelda and the music
would just like be an endless loop in your head and.
You. Yeah, yeah.
I had no girlfriends. I was really, I was really into
Zelda. I was so into Zelda when I was
(18:50):
like 12 years old and 13 years old.
I was like making guidebooks forother people on the Internet on
Zelda. Girls like that too.
It was like, I think when I remember, like, you know, in, in
games like Zelda, you have like rows of hearts as your life bar.
(19:10):
The maximum was like 2 rows of 10 hearts.
And I think like, early on in the game, I was able to get
players to have like an entire row of hearts when by that point
in time, you're only supposed tohave like 4.
So it was just like, I knew likeall these.
Put the hours in. Oh dear.
Yeah. Yeah.
(19:31):
I Yeah. I think that's a very
interesting and like Froggy Prague drummer, like highly like
hyper intelligent approach to like song.
No, but I like that because I mean, The thing is like I I
compose like a progressive metaland like there are moments where
(19:53):
I am very technical and very organized and have a system.
And then there's moments where I'm like I'm following the stem.
I'm just like. I'm not even, I'm an autopilot.
I'm not even thinking. I'm just like moving things
because it feels good and it feels right, you know, and I
make sure to save a copy when I when that happens.
It's important to be very aware when that's happening, when
(20:14):
you're just like going off the what's the word, geez.
I mean, I'm like you're, you're on a roll.
I was really going off the wagon.
That's not the right. I mean, I just think you're on
a. Roll.
Yeah. And like you're not really
thinking about it. And that's like, you know, fun.
Like that's when music making isfun.
But then having that structure where it's like, you know, save
a copy so that you can like playin that.
(20:36):
And then you you don't have, youdon't like accidentally ruin
what you worked on prior. Stuff like that.
Yeah. But like with my students, I try
to show them the structure side of it first because like when
they want to learn more about songwriting, they already know
that it's fun, you know? But maybe they hit like a like a
(20:57):
brick wall or something, or theydon't get to the point where the
song is complete. Or maybe they do write songs,
but they're just not confident in it and they think that they
need help with it and they just need somebody else who's written
so many songs to just get their eyes on it and like, really
like, care about what their message is.
And, you know, it's a lot of different reasons.
So really discovering what the student wants and what their
(21:21):
vision is, you can kind of create structure that makes
sense to them. It's like curated for them.
Yeah, that's that's a really nice approach because you're you
want to capitalize on the uniqueness of the person.
You have to especially creative.It's, it's not, Yeah, like we,
we talk about this in music theory all the time, but it's
like, do you need music theory to make music?
(21:44):
No. What is music theory good for
it. It's it's a way to help create
formulaic, repeatable results. Right, in a sense, I say
something yummy just like that too.
Like why? Why music theory?
Why do I need to know music theory I like?
I was a musician for years without knowing music theory.
It wasn't until I was in collegeI loved my classes, but I was in
(22:06):
college when I learned music theory.
You're a younger, so it's OK. I was a little bit older when I
started learning about it, but Iwas just like, OK, I know.
It's like, I love to write music, but now I know why it
works, right? You know?
And that's like the whole, that's the T of it all.
Like you unlock so much potential when you start to
understand why things sound the way they do and why things work
(22:29):
and why things don't work. And it's a puzzle, and it's fun
in that way. My, my, my experience.
Music theory has always been I, I, I felt compelled to write
music but not truly understand it until people started to
(22:50):
really ask me questions about what I was writing for me to
then have to try and answer that.
So over time it became more apparent to me that music theory
was a little bit more important than what I gave credit for,
Especially if you're trying to do something like, you know, you
and I, we write like a lot of symphonic metal type stuff, you
(23:13):
know, and mine's a little bit more, you know, film score S
with the hellish stuff and you've got like more of this
like dream metal thing going on.But there's still a lot of
elements that require multiple layers of musicianship.
So when you're recording for something like strings or horns
or, you know, even just piano orguitar, and you have session
(23:35):
musicians that are involved in that, it's becomes super
important that you write in a way that's useful for them to be
able to play. I have a question.
Is that when you realize like, damn, I'm really going to have
to like learn how to do this music theory?
Yeah. That was the moment when you're
just like the IT was passion driven, like learning.
(23:57):
It was, it was totally passion driven learning because in, in
college it, it happened during college while I was working on
the, my first album. And during that time, like I was
already beyond my music theory classes when I started to really
appreciate what I was even learning.
(24:20):
So at the time, I felt because Iwas writing for like, organ
strings, brass, woodwinds, all this stuff, because I had a
bunch of different friends in different classes and on their
breaks, I'd say, hey, between this class and this class come
into the studio, I've got it booked so that we can just like,
record it. And they would, you know,
(24:41):
educate me on like, what their parts were able to be played.
And I was like, oh, wow, OK, OK,so I should do this, this that.
I learned more about the articulations of instruments
that way. I learned how the coloration of
instrumentations worked as well.And that actually was more
compounded when I was working with Michael Romeo, because when
(25:05):
Michael Romeo from Symphony X, for those of you guys who don't
know he was, he was a big part of my second album, and you were
a part of that as well. Homerics, the circle of dead
children. There was an entire period of
time we took an entire year to reorchestrate the album because
of what I've learned from Mike, because he gave me all these
(25:29):
tidbits about like that string section and that guitar part.
They're clashing. Redo that or remix it or do
something about it. And he brought a lot of
awareness to my writing that waywhere, you know, what I'm
working on now, which is like preliminary ideas for subsequent
albums, has been just keeping those things a bit in mind as I
(25:55):
move forward. And so a lot of my process will
become in a way, somewhat of a reduction of from the
compositional phase, like all these different instruments that
maybe I have in mind. But then how does it blend in
with like metal and all this kind of stuff that I want to add
to it? I have to do a bit of a
reduction. Yeah.
(26:15):
And you know, I'm so glad that you really absorbed all of those
tips and you implemented in youralbum because like what I do
like and respect about you as a musician is that you're not
like, it's fine, let's just put it out there.
Like you want to make sure that it's pristine and it's exactly,
(26:36):
you have a vision, a very specific vision.
And I just remember the day whenyou you bought the East West.
Was it Composer Cloud? I'm saying right, Composer
Cloud. Yeah.
I just remember the day we were like in our other apartment and
you were just like, damn. And I was like, what is it?
(26:56):
And he was like, I I got to reorchestrate all these
instruments. Is that.
Yeah, I've had to change all these samples because now they
sound like crap compared to likethe East West samples.
But the articulations in East West are almost like the real
thing. Yeah, you know, And we live in a
good time where samples can do that.
You know, it's hard to tell sometimes if it's MIDI or not.
(27:18):
And you can really, you can. You can humanize them.
You could add a humanizer. Is that a thing?
Yeah, that's a thing, Right. OK, because it sounds like a
thing. You could add a humanizer.
It sounds human and that's exciting for me as a singer who
doesn't really play instruments very seriously.
Like I, I accompany myself. I know a little bit, but I'm not
like a good, like a real guitarist or anything like that.
(27:39):
I'm a singer and knowing that I can compose and, and like have
samples that sound so good and Ican really add like those
articulations. It's just a great time to be a
musician and a composer. Yeah, I agree with 100%.
It's been such a dream having the entire East West sample
(28:01):
library at my fingertips. And I think same goes for you
too. You've been using East West ever
since we started using East Weston Homeric.
That is the wifey perks. Yeah, I do use.
Your samples. Yeah, those, I mean samples are
are a great way of unleashing your creativity and and you can
make record quality stuff with samples.
(28:23):
It just matters how you use them.
And I learned a lot of those techniques while I was working
on Zelda Reorchestrated back when I was honestly 1617.
That's out, right? Can you link it somewhere
because it's so cool. Zelda Reorchestrated.
Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah.
You just look up Zreo. I'll find a way to link it.
Second quest. I'll put it in the e-mail.
(28:43):
Yeah, you can totally do that. Yeah, I played on.
I played on one of their new albums, which is a recreation of
the soundtrack of The Legend of Zelda The Wind Waker, which came
out in 2001 as a wow, so long ago or 2001, 2002, somewhere
around there. And that, that entire game I
(29:03):
played on the, the, the album that they remade on the
Ganondorf track, of course, 'cause it's just like the
baddest bad guy in in the history of Zelda, which is a
total thing that I will remember.
I know you were in a Zelda. We sat a different table during
lunchtime. But that's OK.
(29:26):
And yeah, so, yeah, well, you can check it out if you want to
listen to that. It's a it's a fun thing.
I use it as a educational resource too because I have the
scores. Oh, I have.
I, I have an older brother. He's three years older than me.
And he would always play like Kingdom Hearts Final Fantasy.
And I was like, I would just sitnext to him and like watch him
play. And I just loved the music.
(29:48):
The music was amazing and the music in Zelda's amazing because
you play the soundtrack sometimeand I get it, I do.
I do get it. Yeah, well, there's a quote from
Koji Kondo, who made The Legend of Zelda, and he said that he
would listen to all of his musicon repeat to see if he would
(30:09):
ever get tired of listening to it.
And that was a huge part of his workflow.
So that because he knew it was going to be background.
Loopable music is. That possible?
Well, I think in Sir, I think when when Koji said that, I
think he was very, very particular about how it looped
(30:30):
and, and also maybe the instrumentation that was used so
that when it looped, it didn't sound like it was bothersome.
I think it has a lot to also do with like, just like psycho
acoustics, you know, and how your brain like perceives things
and also at certain volumes of music, for example, like a
harpsichord, right? Very baroque instrument.
(30:54):
If you have the harpsichord pretty loud, it sounds very kind
of tinny and twangy and stuff like that.
But when you when you listen to it actually kind of quietly, it
sounds very pretty. So not a lot of these like
compression techniques that we use in modern music, but like
very, very dynamic music works very well with harpsichord
(31:17):
because it was supposed to be something that protruded in a
mix because it was a quiet instrument.
So it was very sharp in tone. So I think like choices of
instrumentation and how it played into the composition.
How the human brain just naturally reacts to certain
sounds and certain tones. That's what I think with the
process involved. Wow.
(31:37):
That's cool. That's another layer.
Yeah. And I, I kind of implement that
a little bit of when I teach my students because I think the
best way to do that and pay attention to those psycho
acoustic effects is by getting away from your computer, having
a bounce of your your song and like listening to it on
headphones on the way to work orputting it in your car.
(31:59):
Not necessarily listening for itas a production, but as like
music and paying attention to itas music.
And you got to like this is whatI say.
Maybe like some of you will understand what I'm like what I
mean, but you have to sniff somecoffee beans.
You know, when you're like buying a new perfume, you sniff
coffee beans to like refresh your, your sinuses so that
(32:21):
because after a while, everything kind of like ginger.
Well, ginger is, is cleansing the palate when you're eating
sushi. But Oh my God, my ADHD can't
handle this. Let me try to focus one second.
So when you're sniffing coffee beans, it helps because when you
buy a new perfume, everything starts to smell the same after a
while. And when you're like hyper
focused on moving MIDI around and adding this and like doing
(32:42):
this to the EQ and changing a million things, you got to take
a second. You got to like sniff some
coffee beans because you'll justlike make all these changes and
changes for hours and then end up with the same thing you
started with. And everything just sounds the
same and it blurs and you have to take those breaks.
And that's like something about back in the day when things were
analog, you were forced to take breaks because things needed to
(33:06):
rewind or it needed to restart. It would just take a while for
things to work. So you had those little smoke
breaks in between and your brainneeds that, you know,
everything's so fast now, but you have to make sure that you
know what you're doing with purpose and you're not just
getting lost in the lost in the stem, right?
You know. Absolutely, you have to recheck
(33:30):
yourself. You know, that's why in mixing
and you know, Nick Z our, our, our metal producer overlord
instructor, he, he talks about this all the time is when you're
mixing, you got to take frequentbreaks so that you can reset and
just like focus again, because sometimes you just get.
Studio head, walk around the apartment.
Like, take a walk outside, walk your dog, make yourself like,
(33:50):
you know, drink some water. Yeah, big glass of water.
Yeah, man, I forget that all thetime.
She's just like, drink water. I was like, OK.
I do say that a lot. To you Yep, Yep.
But it's it's true though. I mean like just resetting.
Recalibrating yourself is important part of the.
Some coffee beans. Yeah, yeah, I agree.
(34:10):
I. Should make merch that says
that. Sniff some coffee beans.
Yeah, audio. With like an analog mixer on it?
I don't know. Well, if you want to smell
something really nice again, here's our our candle here,
Homeric. I'm sorry, I've got this.
I was very impressed by that, yeah.
You know, because, well, while we're talking about scents,
(34:32):
right, just to reiterate, right,we have our candle here.
It's made by Zeal Candles. We sell it on our metal
mastermind shop. That's shop.metalmastermind.com
or metal mastermindshop.com, either one.
And this one is, like I said, a peppermint sort of, you know,
very, very Christmasy in a sense.
Yeah, It's like it's got a Christmasy scent, but it's it's
(34:53):
a little bit more. Fresh and clean, Yeah.
It's not overwhelming. It just it's like when you walk
in your house and like it smellslike clean.
Yeah. Fresh and like crisp snow.
Something like that. Crisp, yeah.
Snow. The whole idea, when we were
making it, we were like, oh, we want something frosty.
And we, you know, we, we experimented with like Juniper
and stuff like that and we came across this one and it, it
(35:16):
turned out to be one of our favorite.
I love it and. The artwork is beautiful.
I mean as some of you already know, the artwork for Homeric is
all hand painted by like giant paintings.
Like they've been mill gate years to do so.
This artwork is very special. Yeah, and it's all over.
My shirt right now, if you if the the visual listeners, it's
(35:38):
an oxymoron. You can see.
Yeah, that's really good stuff. So yeah, I mean, when we made
Homeric, I always wanted it to be a sort of a sensory
experience. And so the the candles are
actually designed to be listenedwith the album or while reading
the book so that while you are, you know, going through the
(35:58):
journey, you're listening ideally in immersive.
So Dolby Atmos is the format andyou can sort of smell as you go
through the Inferno and the story arc of Morgana and Dante
and it's just, it's just such a cool experience.
It's something a little bit different that we wanted to
(36:19):
formulate as a concept. So, but yeah, with Metal
Mastermind, we, we wanted to useHomeric as a as also as a
teaching tool because we. Put a lot of work into it.
We put a lot of work into. It it's the best example to use
to, you know, people that want to do that as well.
And, and in different facets, you know, I think one of the
(36:42):
biggest lessons I, I get from home, Eric, is the, the patience
and diligence to create something that you've always
envisioned and having the power in your hands to be able to do
that is very rewarding. It takes a very long time.
You know that I'm not going to sugarcoat that.
(37:02):
It takes a long time to get to apoint where we even got here
because this required a relentless amount of passion,
dedication. I mean, how many times were
there interruptions in this project?
I mean, it was like, and some ofthem were huge, so, but the
project's still alive. And that was part of my life
(37:25):
journey, if you really think about it, and part of yours too.
Yeah, yeah. And one important thing to say
is that even though it did take you a good amount of time to get
the album the way you wanted, you knew when it was done.
I did. Yes.
So from the beginning, all thoselike, you know, changes or like
building on it or like just finding ways to elevate it, you
(37:47):
always know what it was supposedto look like at the end.
And when it looked like that, you knew when it was done.
And that really comes from just like confidence in your own
craft because no one's going to understand it or get it or see
it like you do until you create it.
And then you can share it with the world, right?
You know, So, you know, we are like preaching about, you know,
(38:10):
making sure it sounds the way you want it and, you know,
taking that journey and being patient with your craft.
But to really listen to your intuition, that's a huge part of
the process, you know? You know when it's done and you
feel really good about it, and that's when it's time to share
it with the world. 100% yeah. You need to have that, you know,
(38:31):
confidence in your project to dothat.
And I mean, that's what Middle Mastermind is really built off
of. It's, it's, it's all about us
sharing our knowledge and our resources with the world in
order to be able to empower other people to do very similar
things. You know, when we talk about
(38:51):
stuff like home Eric or even your project Deosa, it's a lot
of just passion for what we do. And we use it as a tool to teach
others that not to do it necessarily like us, but to do
it in a way that empowers them. So our methods or our styles of
(39:15):
music, not everybody necessarilyneeds to like our style, but
there's no denying that there are elements in what we do that
are teaching opportunities. And that's what we're trying to
capitalize on when we talk aboutHomeric or Deoso or anything
that gets involved with Metal Mastermind.
And so, you know, based on our experience, that's what I feel
(39:38):
to be a very rewarding part of our process.
You know, it's nice to be able to at this point, having gone
through the inferno of making this album and just being able
to share that with others and express our experiences, our our
journey, hopefully in a way thathelps inspire you, but also in a
(40:01):
way that empowers you. Yeah, absolutely.
That journey of to to get to that milestone was a huge, like
impact in your life. And you have so much to teach
and offer to the world along with Homeric itself.
Just the whole process, you know, anyone that is going
(40:22):
through something similar and you know, yeah, like you said,
progressive metal, symphonic metal, It's it's very technical,
it's very complex. But even like the most simplest
songs, there is like a scale of that very similar process of
getting it to that point of it being done right.
And there's so much to learn along the way.
(40:43):
And I mean, we just want to teach it.
We just really want to like, share that.
We're very passionate about it. And you know, it's just exciting
to be around those people that have that same goal as well.
Yeah, and you know, that I want to shout out also the rest of
the team at Metal Mastermind, you know, Nick Z, Rich Gray,
(41:06):
Alfred Potter, Emily Bryden, youguys, you guys are awesome as
part of the Middle Mastermind team.
Very, very supportive. You know, we we talked a little
bit about this last time, but I think it's out in the open now.
And we, we just want to, you know, give also some grace to
Jason Stallworth for helping, you know, elevate Middle
(41:29):
Mastermind to a point in our, you know, development that we
are able to do this today. You know, we're not for Jason.
And you know, his efforts behindthe first four years of Metal
Mastermind. We wouldn't be where we are
either. So shout out to you too, man.
And, and all of the people that watch Metal Mastermind, all of
you guys have been amazing supporters.
(41:52):
Even through this abundant change.
Yes, there's a lot of change that's been happening these, you
know, past two months, especially from November into
December. You know, now we have the Inner
Circle as our primary service here at Metal Mastermind, which
is to give you guys continuous access to new updates to new
(42:16):
lessons. We're constantly updating this
stuff. We're adding contract templates,
we're adding mixing templates, we're adding, you know, ebooks,
we're adding a lot of stuff. Now it's.
Just the beginning too. This is just the beginning, but
yeah, the inner circle is like what we're really, really
passionate about and what we're focusing a lot of our time on.
(42:37):
We actually just launched 3 new guitar courses this month.
Yeah, from Alfred Potter. That's the Slow MO Suite.
We also have killer scale runs and E twos for electric guitar.
They're fantastic courses. I we were, we were uploading
them. We were just saying to each
other. How you know Alfred and his
teaching style? It's so oh.
(42:58):
When I was uploading that course, I was watching every
single video. It's as beautiful.
It's as a beautiful course. Like he's so good.
And like the the music choices, the backing tracks are all just
so good too. Yep.
And I'm like, OK, people are gonna love this, Yes.
It's great. Alfred is so talented.
He's and he's and he's a really,really talented instructor too.
(43:19):
So be sure to check it out. If you want to join the inner
circle, go to metalmastermind.com/the Dash
Inner Dash Circle and you'll getaccess to, you know, all of the
courses that we've had on Metal Mastermind as well as these new
courses that are exclusive to the inner circle as well as all
(43:40):
the bonuses. So you know, if you're a metal
musician, a metal producer or someone who wants to get
involved in this industry, the Inner Circle is really that one
resource that we've made so thatyou have access to all of that.
And actually bonus if you are part of the inner circle for a
(44:01):
certain amount of time. We actually have some milestones
for you which we've been partnering with some of our
friends and other audio companies and as well as
Sweetwater to get you guys educational discounts.
So if you are hitting these milestones of how long you've
been a student, big discounts. Too.
They're some, they're like 50% off some.
(44:22):
Of them are really. Audio companies like saving like
hundreds and hundreds of dollars.
Oh my gosh, so equipment, I'm just super grateful for
everybody that's decided to partner with us because it's
evident that people do want to be a part of something that
enriches other people. We love that.
We want, you know, all of these resources to be accessible to
(44:46):
you. So this just makes it that much
more of a foundational structure, I think for a lot of
people, because now we're entering, we're talking about
education, but we're talking about now we're entering a new
world of education. I'm not going to sugar coat it.
I've seen it as an as a university professor.
A lot of the universities are starting to struggle with
(45:06):
attendance, which is very interesting to me because I
think the trend has been self learning, right?
People are using the Internet, they're using online tools.
They're like, I can just learn this stuff online or go to
YouTube, But you know, when you go to YouTube, you have to
search for everything that you want to learn for.
(45:27):
And it's not really a structuredplace, but you don't want to
spend, you get. So many different types of
opinions and and sometimes contradicting things and.
Yeah, I mean. It's good to just, you know, go
to a source that you can really depend on and like a methodology
that you can really rely on and learn from, just like the
structure of a university without the tuition of a.
(45:49):
University, right? Exactly.
That's that's, that's really what what we're getting at here.
And remedial courses. You don't have to learn Biology
one 01, right? No metal mastermind is very,
very simple. You know, we teach music
performance, audio technology, music business, all for the
metal musician that's. Everything you need to know to
be the entire package and make it as a indie metal musician in
(46:15):
it's day and age. Yeah, and we're coming up with
new content now. We're about to go in and
actually record some content foranalog signal flow, so you can
learn what it's like to to work with an SSL.
And then we're also got upcomingcontent about what does it take
to make a music video. We've got music business,
(46:36):
interviews with publicists, AD agencies.
Metal vocals. Radio promo, we've got metal
vocals. We've got so many things coming
down the pipeline. I'm working on Adobe Atmos
course. I mean, guys, this is like super
exciting stuff for us. All day, everyday.
This is what we do. This is what we do, right?
We just like every time we talk now, it's just like, oh, what
(46:58):
are we doing for like, you know,metal Mastermind and, and it's
so exciting. I'm really, really happy to to
see this new chapter of Metal Mastermind open up because
things are coming down and coming down fast, which is
great, you know. So on that note, everybody,
thank you so much for attending our new podcast.
We hope that you enjoyed it. Ellie, do you have any last
(47:20):
words you wanna you wanna share with the group?
I'm just happy to be part of this podcast.
I think it's super cool. A little nerve wracking at
first, you know, because you know, like I, I listened to the
podcast, I was a guest on the podcast a few times in the past
and like you and Jason, a prettydynamic duo.
But like, I feel like I've gotten a lot of positive
(47:41):
feedback from a lot of people and a lot of women too.
And like, I got, you know, people saying like they're just
happy to see more women in the metal community.
And, you know, I have a lot to say and a lot to share.
So I'm happy that I have this opportunity to do that here and
with such an amazing, strong andsupportive community.
(48:01):
Well, that's beautiful and we'rewe're honored to have you as
well. So thanks that on that note,
guys, you know, just constantly fight the good fight.
Continue to do what you're doing.
And you know, if you ever need resources, you could always come
to metalmastermind.com and find those resources for you.
(48:22):
But as we always say, you know, this is, well, this is the
ultimate resource for metal musicians.
But we also always say create your own sound because we do
feel that your uniqueness is what makes you special in making
the next generation of music thrive and stay alive.
(48:43):
So. No pressure.
There you go. All right.
Thank you. Everybody.
Take care. Bye.
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