January 6, 2025 • 49 mins
In this episode, Ken and Ellie discuss their beginnings in audio and music production and how they adapted to become self-reliant, independent artists in the new music industry.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Metal
Mastermind. Happy New Year to you all.
We're starting off 2025 with a bang.
So happy to see you that you're here.
And Ellie and I, we are going totalk about some interesting
stuff today, as we always do. More particularly though, we're
(00:27):
going to talk about our journey through through audio and what
that looks like for you, and maybe you'll learn something
from our own experiences today. So.
Well, it was nice to take a little holiday break, but I'm
happy to be on the pod. Yeah, it's always busy during
this time of year having, you know, family members seen and
(00:53):
like going out to see friends. I mean, it's always just kind of
like a jumble of things to do so.
Yeah, and it was important that we took that time too, because
like we're, we've been working so hard with all the new things
with Metal Mastermind. And if we didn't allow ourselves
to like take, you know, those 3-4 days just to be with family
(01:14):
and in the moment, you know, it's like it's important.
It's, it's the only way you can be productive if you have that
balance. So I'm glad we took that little
break and now we're back and I feel like so refreshed.
Do you feel refreshed, bro? Yes.
In a way, I kind of feel like the holidays always go by so
fast like that in a in a sense, like it felt like maybe just a
(01:38):
slightly longer weekend. I don't know, I guess I get.
All one big fever dream. I don't know exactly.
I thought it was still October. Like what?
What? Yeah, no, I feel we did some
pretty good stuff during the holidays.
I actually got a chance to work a little bit on my audio book,
which is very exciting. And then we got some work done,
(01:59):
but we were spending a lot of time with family too, which was
also always very good to, to do.I mean, now this is this is what
you do during the holidays I. Just I feel like so good too,
especially starting off the new year, just like a lot of good
meetings, a lot of, you know, meeting a lot of new people with
Metal Mastermind and I'm just I can't wait for it to be like
(02:20):
public and you know, those changes to come into fruition.
Like it's just like exciting stuff coming we.
Do Yeah, yeah, there is a lot ofexciting stuff you guys will get
to learn about that in time, but.
In time, just, you know, stay, follow, stay subscribed and, you
know, stay tuned. You'll see some stuff come out.
But we're we're here to like, you know, give you that daily
content, that daily metal education.
And today we're gonna dive into our experience a little bit
(02:45):
because I think it's pretty relatable, to be honest.
Like we're both musicians. I'm a singer, you're a drummer,
you know, and I know online you're very much audio based,
but that's not how it started. You are a drummer, your father
is a drummer. Like very musician, heavy family
and upbringing. So I want to learn that side of
(03:05):
you because we have a lot of, you know, musicians that listen
to us and follow us and we want to share why audio was the
reason why we could take our ideas and vision to the next
level. Well, yeah.
Well, audio for me, and, you know, you tell me what your, you
know, version of this is like, but audio for me was actually a
(03:29):
choice that I made because I didn't get to go to the school
that I wanted to go to. So I was dead set on being just
a drummer. I had applied to a Conservatory
and I was like super excited to go but I couldn't afford it.
I got into it twice. Yeah.
(03:51):
And yeah, my second time I was like, yeah, I'm.
Going to say the school. Oh yeah, yeah, Berkeley.
I mean, it was like it. Was going to be a Berkeley boy
but it's so expensive. Oh, yeah, yeah.
No, I mean, that's just kind of the nature of these things.
And like, when you're in high school, you're told so much
about, like, how college is going to change your future.
And I was like really dead set on going to Berkeley because I
(04:14):
thought it was going to be my best choice.
Lo and behold, I wasn't able to go because finances, it's a real
thing. I don't know about you, but we
have, we had this choice of either like staying in New York
or trying to go to a different city for a different school.
And I didn't get into most schools that I applied to
(04:37):
because I was slacking my last year at high school.
And I ended up basically qualifying for a Community
College. And then my mother actually
convinced the Community College to transfer me to another
Community College. And then in that program, I
decided, I guess I'll go for music production because I was
(04:59):
like, I wasn't so confident thatthe music performance major was
going to do as much as I was going to get at Berkeley.
So I decided I was going to justto do the trade right audio
engineering and. So on talent alone the best
school pretty much for musiciansexcept to do twice.
(05:22):
But in regards to like other things based on grades or
whatever, it was hard to get. Into.
I didn't, I didn't get into this.
Yeah, I didn't get the scholarship money that I wanted.
OK, that's how it. Makes sense.
OK, So yeah, that would have been the only way.
I would have gone to Berkeley and then the other schools.
Yeah, I just might by merit alone.
It wasn't enough. So I literally only got into a
(05:45):
Community College and I was like, OK, this is where I'm
going to have to be. I was pouting the entire time.
And then I grew to love what I was doing.
It's how we reconnected, so I'm glad you went, but continue.
Right. So but that was that was
essentially like how it started for me.
And that was 2010 into 2011. And yeah, I had people who
(06:11):
recognize that I was really starting to like music
production and took me on some gigs.
Shout out to Rob Anderson. This is he was my first gig gig
opportunity that I had as a student and he was one of the
best teachers I've ever had. So shout out to him.
(06:32):
And it was. Like a chain of events that led
you to majoring in music production and audio.
And I and your professors recognize the fact that you have
such a sponge like brain and youcould absorb information like
very easily. You're just like, so smart.
Thank you. Well, I mean, it's like I'm
very, it's about certain things sometimes it doesn't always
(06:56):
absorb. But when it comes to like
anything technical, like I'm very, I'm very good with that.
And I've always been very technical, even as a kid, like
one of my first projects was like building computers and
stuff like that. So that was.
That's normal. Yeah, I know.
But what about you? What was what was it like for
you like when you were getting into audio for the first time?
(07:16):
I just, well, I just think that's interesting, Ken, because
it's like, it seems like it was a chain of events that you kind
of like came to audio music production.
And in the way that you just like, took that and, like,
skyrocketed with it is very inspiring, you know, And you're
able to do so much music following that too.
So, you know, it's like when life gives you lemons, right.
(07:38):
But with me. With me.
Yeah. So we both went to the same high
school. Like, I'm a vocalist, so very
musical all my life. Broadway, opera, gospel.
That was my upbringing. And then one time, one day I was
like 11 years old and I heard Nirvana for the first time in
(07:59):
Linkin Park, and everything changed.
Yeah. I was like, oh, OK, I like this.
And it just kept going from there.
And then after high school, I started getting more into metal.
The first metal band that I really started following was
Between the Buried and Me. And that's how I discovered
bands like Dream Theater, Devin Townsend, a Ghost, and I was, I
(08:22):
was just like hooked on progressive metal.
It was feeding my narrow divergent brain and it it it
scratched an itch that I did notknow I had.
It was just like stimulating in the right way.
Like it was epic. It was like very visual.
And for people that, like, listen to music and they can
experience it in a visual way, progressive metal was like, what
(08:46):
did that for me? So amazing.
Yeah. So in my early 20s, not even
like, I think I was like, 18 when I started, like, my first
band. I sing in a horror punk band.
A lot of Misfits covers, you know, we did a lot of, like,
Primus, stuff like that. And I really got to like
practice that edgy side of my voice because, you know, up
(09:07):
until then it was just mainly like opera and gospel and, and
choir music because that's what I did in school.
But then, you know, from there Ijoined a progressive metal band.
Absolutely loved like writing songs for that and, and singing.
And then I just came up with these ideas, a storyline.
(09:30):
And I just had like this vision,like this musical vision, like
something that I wanted to perform and, and see through,
but I just did not know, not know how to, you know, compose
it or even explain it correctly to like, you know, musicians.
Like, I had no way to translate it, you know, And that's around
(09:52):
the time I met Ken because I waslooking for a drummer, a
guitarist. I was like, I want to try to
make these original songs happen.
And Ken was like, oh, you shouldtake the music production
program at, you know, the Community College, and you took
it, and it's basically how you learned how to compose your
(10:14):
music. Yeah.
So I was like, yeah, let me do that because I was dinking
around on Garage Band. But I was like, if I can, like,
get really good at this, then I can really make something.
And then I took, you know, the whole program got straight A's.
I was really into it. And the professors there really
are amazing, aren't they? They really like can recognize
(10:37):
people that are serious and, youknow, very into it and and they
really want to give you those opportunities to like learn and
grow with your projects. Some of them we still talk to to
this day. Yeah, some of them are good
friends. Yeah, so yeah, shout out to
Queensboro Community College music production program.
They're awesome, honestly. Yeah, we got a lot of our start
through Queensboro. It was a it was a place we like
(10:59):
to call home. I mean, we're both Queens kids,
so a Community College that served this community was
really, really great to the bestof its stability.
And it's still running very strong today.
And in some ways it's exceeded other institutions, which is
really good to see. Yeah, I have like first hand
experience cuz like from there Igot into a really like a good
(11:21):
four year program and I was justlike I learned more from
Queensboro amazing than I did inthe four year program.
And it was just more engagement too, like.
I mean, the timing of it was also the pandemic.
Oh yeah, it was in the middle ofthe pandemic.
It was a little, it was a littlehard.
Anyway, I don't want to get too much into school too much
(11:42):
because I want to just talk about the fact that getting that
audio education and really just like diving into that.
I was able to learn how to use Sibelius and I went from
GarageBand to Logic. But in school we dive right into
Pro Tools and like I got to really learn, just like learn
(12:04):
the language. Once you know the language and
understand how like these dolls work, you can pretty much use
any DAW if you just give it the time and you can really figure
out which DAW is right for you and your projects.
So for me, like I love to compose and I have music in my
head and in my phone and like, you know, everywhere that I want
(12:24):
to get into a clean demo so thatI can bring musicians on to play
it and I can get on stage with it.
So like being able to do that inSibelius and then bring that to
Pro Tools to add like, you know,good, like sample instruments.
That's how I was able to do that.
And I'm just a vocalist, you know, And the fact that I had
(12:45):
that power to do that, if it waseverything to me.
Oh my God. Well, now you're not just a
vocalist, you're also a producer.
So I know, right? No, it's amazing.
No, what, what, what, what learning audio for me and for
you, it seems, and for many people we talked to it, it
unlocks the power of able to make something that was, you
(13:06):
know, just an idea tangible. So it's, it's the trade, it's
the execution of being able to record, going through the
process, you know, even mixing and mastering and all that good
stuff too. But production is so much of the
efforts of, you know, like a collection of experiences that
(13:29):
you happen to gain over time. And then when you execute it
onto an idea that you have like nowadays, it becomes a lot more
fluid. And to get to that point of, you
know, even audio mastery, I mean, it takes a long time.
I mean, there's a great proverb that says you become a master at
(13:51):
something with 10,000 hours or something like that.
And I tell that to a lot of students too, because, you know,
one of the institutions that I work at it's, it's a clock hour
school. And basically they have to
fulfill about 1000 hours before they can graduate.
And so that kind of system, you know, when I tell them, and it's
(14:14):
about basically it encompasses four days a week out of an
entire year, right? Just consistently through the
whole year. And a lot of the students, you
know, I have to tell them I said, like, I know you're going
through a lot by going through the schooling that you're doing,
but you have to understand that you are just scratching the
surface and that your knowledge and mastery of audio will happen
(14:37):
over the next decade of your life, you know?
And they're like, oh, my God. It's like, yeah, Well, you know,
and when you become, I think, a master at something, I think
about like, even like, you know,any of these martial arts, like
Kung Fu or whatever, right? It's always like, how do they
talk to their students? It's like, oh, you have to move
like water and all these sorts of things.
(14:59):
And they have these analogies for certain things.
But when you see the master do it, it does very much look like
they're so in the motions to a point where it's instinctual,
right? They don't really think about
what they're doing. They just have internalized it
so much that now it's natural for them.
So I feel it's very much the same way here too.
(15:20):
Like when you think about something that you want to do in
audio, after amount of time thatyou've mastered it, it becomes
like, I already know how to get the thing that I'm looking for.
And then you just perform a couple of moves and you can do
it really fast. You're really efficient with it.
And that just happens over time through your experience and the
things that you've learned and thoughts you shared with others,
(15:40):
right? Those like keyboard shortcuts
are like just reactions at this point.
Yes, very much. I'm still learning some stuff
though. Like, what's really cool about
this industry is that you know how to probably get the sounds
that you might be thinking of inyour head, but sometimes you
just haven't thought of a way, which is always so cool.
(16:02):
Yeah, When I first use Reactor, I was just like, OK, it's like a
visual explanation of how sound happens in a DAW.
What why why is this? A thing like this is like
something I know now. I don't know.
It's it's interesting. There's a DAW for literally
everything. And if you used Reactor before
you, you know what I'm talking about.
(16:24):
It looks like the inside of a motherboard.
Yeah, I mean, reactor's very cool.
And I mean, synthesis in generalis like really the, the
foundation and you know, of the anatomy of a sound, right?
So if you, if you understand sound and an anatomical level in
a sense that you can decipher like anything that comes through
it, I mean, you know, you have the power to look anything.
(16:45):
It's really, it's really amazing.
But I'm still like, so like inspired by some of my friends
who have given me ideas. You know, an example would be
recently where it was like, oh, I didn't really think about
putting a Leslie effect on the delay of a vocal.
(17:06):
And what does that mean exactly?Right.
So like, you know, like the the,the organ, the Hammond B3 organ
that you would hear like on, youknow, churches and stuff like in
gospel music, like organs. Well, the Leslie is the box
where it goes like wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.
Right. So you get that effect and you
put that on a delay of a vocal and you have your vocal now
(17:28):
start to sort of like, no, no, with like some really cool
effects stuff that you're doing.I mean, like it adds just color
and texture. Yeah.
Or here's another one. Like this was a good friend of
ours, actually, John. John T He was name John.
Yeah, I know, JT, but shout out to JT for this one.
(17:49):
He was telling me you know don'tthrow away the click track in
your sessions use it for mixing.I was like what do you mean you
would mute the click track but then you would send the click
track in pre fader so that it still sends the signal and you
could use it to side chain and trigger reverb I.
Knew you were going to say side chain.
(18:11):
And like it would be like the click is basically like the
pulse of like what the reverb would be doing.
So you'd be like. It's like ghost click.
Yeah, it's like ghost click, it's breathing, it's.
Really cool instead of like making like a kick track which
might not be as you know, perfect as the right cuz yeah
(18:32):
wow. Yeah, you could use the click
for anything. You could use it to trigger, you
know, down beats on kick drums and stuff like that for, you
know, base coherency and all that.
It's really, really cool. Like like these are things like,
I mean, everybody's heard of like side chaining a kick with
bass and all that stuff, but like nobody really talks about
the click in that way so. We're assuming that a lot of our
(18:54):
listeners here know about like, exactly what we're talking
about. But if you're super new to like
audio and you're not sure, please like reach out to us
because this is like, OK, we'll make a visual of what that looks
like, you know? Yeah, it's, it's so much fun.
And that's that's what I'm saying is, is that.
Want to make sure you all understand how cool what he said
(19:14):
was. I think it's cool.
Yeah, this is like those things about audio that make it so
fascinating, and it's really where the creativity of the
person is. You know, the Sky's the limit in
that case. Every other time, whenever I'm
doing audio and, you know, I'm struggling technically, it's
(19:35):
usually because of a lack of understanding of some sort of
foundational principle, you know?
But when you have no limitationson the technical side of things
because you know it so well, it just becomes endless creativity.
And that's the part where peoplewant to get to.
But it takes a while to get there, you know?
Yeah, So. And I wanted to like, can I add
(19:57):
something real quick? So just like after I graduated
college. I immediately dived into a entry
level audio job, which one does,You know, they want to find a
job in their field. And it was for live sound.
It was for setting up audio equipment.
(20:18):
It was an audio technician job for, you know, TV sets, movie
sets, a lot of intercom systems.I learned so much from that job.
Like so, so more than I could have ever learned in the 2-3
years that I was in Community College.
Like I learned so much from thatjob, but I had to pivot because
it's like you always have to askyourself, it's like, why, why
(20:39):
did I want to learn this? Why did I go back to school?
Why did I learn audio? Because I'm a musician and I
wanted to compose my music and Iwant to sing it on stage.
And you know, your, your main purpose in life, it will catch
up with you. You know, I mean, this is my
experience. Everyone is different.
But if you can relate to this, you know, at one point I had to
(21:02):
decide like, do I want a future in life sound or do I want to,
you know, make a, a change now so that I can, you know, become
an expert in what my main purpose is, which is, you know,
music composition and honestly teaching.
I love to teach, you know, vocals, metal vocals and just
(21:22):
finding more opportunities to sing.
And I did make that decision andit was a hard 1.
And that's just something I recognized too, especially in
audio is like, there's so many avenues you can go.
There's so many like jobs that you can get with an audio
education and you can, you know,get a job and do it and make
good money and get really good at it.
(21:44):
But once you kind of go down OneAve. so far, it's like, is that
where you want to stay or do youwant to like, you know, get
really good at what you want to do for the rest of your life?
You know, right. And again, this is my
experience, but it's just a goodthing to put into perspective
too. When you're like starting off
with like an entry level job andyou see like those years like
(22:06):
starting to like tack on, it's like you want to make sure that
you're doing what you love. 100%I mean the, the amount of
avenues that you're mentioning, I mean it spans all the way from
live sound to teaching to post production to recording, mixing,
mastering, broadcast. I mean like it's the, the list
goes on and on and. On yeah, I learned how to use
(22:27):
phone acts and I realized I qualify for jobs for like ear
monitors at like hospitals, yeah, retirement centers, like
medical fields, like yeah medical like so much you can
learn and so much you can do. Yeah, it's quite fascinating.
And it's one of those things where if you're, if you're, you
(22:48):
know, doesn't have to necessarily be a young person,
but someone who's not aware of the opportunities in audio, it's
a way for someone to also break free of what they thought this
entire industry was all about. Because in the case of what I
mean to say is when you start off young like we did in music,
(23:11):
all you kind of thought about was like, I'm going to be a
musician, I'm going to want to be a rock star.
I want to do all this stuff. But you you're not aware of all
the other opportunities that arearound the field that relates to
music. And so you can take your musical
ability and still earn a living in a different way that still
(23:32):
ties back to music through the trade that you've just learned,
which is audio. So it's a really great way for
someone to explore something newthat when they try it, let's
say, for example, like in schools, they introduce post
production, usually a little bitlater into the curriculum
because it's a little more advanced.
(23:53):
But when students come across post production, they're like,
Yo, this is like fun. I like making movies or I like
doing commercials or I like making video games or all this
stuff. And they're like, wow, this can
this can be an entire career forme that now I actually have been
exposed to. I practiced a bit, I like it and
I want to continue down that path.
(24:13):
And, you know, this is one of those things where, like, you
hear stories about, let's say, composers like Alan Silvestri,
who's, you know, one of my favourites, but he went to
school to be a rock star and ended up becoming a film scorer.
Like, that's so cool to me. So there's like a whole entire
(24:33):
path that can be unlocked by exploring a field that is a
trade. Like audio.
You can do the same even with things like lighting.
I mean, like some people crossover into lighting because
they were into audio, video first or video.
I mean, like this is what we're doing now.
We're doing video and audio for you guys.
Blowing my mind right now and I actually want to like add on to
(24:55):
that because I feel like with musicians, audio is a mutual
language. So let me see if I have the
attention span to like see through this whole thought that
I have. It's great.
I promise you to stay with me. So I think in my perspective,
there's two types of musicians. There's musicians that enjoy
playing and they're down and they want to play.
(25:18):
Even session, session musicians,like, you know, they, they pick
up gigs and they play what's given to them and they just
enjoy playing, you know, being part of projects.
Those are, you know, great musicians to work with.
And then there's musicians that have visions, you know, that
have like, albums that they've composed and now they need to
(25:39):
get musicians to play it. That's like me right now.
And yeah, they just have like visions and they want to bring
it to life, you know, And obviously it's not black and
white, but that's just how I seeit.
And a mutual way to communicate between the person with the
vision and the person that wantsto play the vision is through
(26:00):
that audio education. Because I wouldn't have been
able to do it without that. Because when you have, you know,
when you go to like, school for audio, for example, you're
taking music theory. You know, you're taking, you
know, virtual instruments. You're taking all types of
things that make it possible foryou to communicate with a
musician. You know, whether you're on set,
(26:22):
like a sound check anything or just like with your own personal
project, you have to understand where they're coming from and
like show them or like have themlisten to what what you're
talking about basically. So through like music theory and
audio, I've been able to expresswhat my vision is to musicians,
and they've been able to be like, yeah, I can play that.
(26:44):
And it's like, so magical to actually hear it coming
together. Yeah, it's quite amazing.
I mean it, It just gives you more power.
Knowledge is power, as they always say.
And the more you invest in the skills that you learn for
yourself, the more capable you become to do a whole lot more.
And you know, that kind of comesback around to the ethos of what
(27:05):
Metal Mastermind is all about, right?
Like trying to be the ultimate resource for you guys to not
just learn about like music performance, but to also unlock
music production. And then we're building things
about music business and. Your music theory course is like
robust. Yeah, there's, there's a lot on
Metal Mastermind that we, you know, provide for exactly that,
(27:28):
which is the experiences that we've accumulated or the course
of our careers and our friends who are instructors that they're
also teaching what they've learned over their careers.
I mean, it's a cumulative effortthat has amassed this entire
resource for people to be able to learn, grow, and thrive.
(27:51):
So Metal Mastermind is really special to me in that case.
And you know, I know it is for all of us who have either been a
part of Metal Mastermind or continue to learn from the
platform. And it's very exciting to see
where all of this is going because I know there's going to
be some really, really cool things for you guys down the
road. It's going to be richer, fuller,
(28:15):
more robust than ever. And it's going to allow you guys
to also have access to more things in the industry, which we
think is one of the things that has been missing for a long time
for metal artists. Metal artists are always have
been sort of thought of as, you know, the underground on the
(28:35):
wayside of what's mainstream. So this really gives, I think,
us as a fighting chance to really do the work that we've
always wanted to do, to get recognized for it and to, you
know, pass the torch along and keep the good fight going.
(28:56):
That's what Metal Masterminds always been for me.
And it's a it holds a special place in my heart in that case.
And that's why it keeps going too, because it's like we have a
a genuine team of, you know, instructors that want it share
that. So one really good thing about
the inner circle, and if there'sany listeners that are currently
in the inner circle, you do havethe opportunity to be on the
(29:19):
podcast. We want to hear from students
that have taken the courses. And from what we've seen since
launching the inner circle, there is a 90% completion rate
of the courses. So I mean, how many times have
you bought in a course and it just kind of gathers dust on
your dashboard and maybe you never open it?
Oh yeah. I I still have them.
(29:40):
I still have them somewhere on adrive.
You know, and it always comes back to me like, you know, I'm
going to, I'm going to get back to that one day.
And it's been literally like eight years since I've
subscribed to one of these courses.
And I get it, it's a membership and like, I understand wanting
to finish a course, you know, asquickly as you can so that
you're not like holding on to these courses for too long.
(30:02):
It's honestly the smart way to go.
We understand, you know, customers or you know, people
that are in the inner circle want to like really take
advantage and, and look through those courses and really take
them. You're learning a lot and we're
happy about it. You're really, you know, taking
that education in and that's, you know, the beauty of the
inner circle is that you are going to get the value that you
paid for. So, you know, that's great to
(30:25):
see all these people that are completing the courses and we
want to hear from you. We want you on the the pod.
We also want to promote, you know, your music.
If you have like some music thatyou're able to complete with the
stuff you learn from the inner circle or just whatever you're
working on, you know, like send it over, e-mail it to us.
You know, we'll definitely give you a shout out.
Yeah, we'll, we'll create a playlist for all of our students
(30:47):
who are in the inner circle, youknow, Spotify.
So if you want to share your music there and you're part of
the inner circle, reach out and we're be more, we'll be more
than happy to share the wealth. And in that case, it's a really
good resource. And honestly, like doing it this
way. We've seen better results from
(31:07):
our students. So you know, we're, we're just
letting the numbers talk. In this case, the amount of
enthusiasm from people who take the inner circle has been
tremendous. So thank you for all of those
who are a part of it. We're really excited to move
forward with you. We have a lot more stuff coming.
We've been building already a giant course on how to work an
(31:30):
SSL How to work an audience ASP 8024.
We just released 3 new guitar courses on there.
God, yeah. The three guitar courses from
Alfred Potter are out, and thoseare excellent.
We have Adobe Atmos immersive audio course that's gonna come.
We're working on a lot of stuff right now.
(31:50):
It's like really, really juicy. And I can't wait because I know
we're gonna eventually also get to music business and all this
kind of stuff. We've interviewed many folks
already on music business and those interviews are going to be
in the inner circle for you to learn from so that you can take
away key information about what it's like to do radio promo or
(32:12):
what it's like to do APR campaign or an advertising
campaign. These are all things that we
want to share with you so that you guys have information, you
know, for you to work with. And I mean resources like
templates, ebooks, they're all there too.
I mean like the the ebooks that we have.
(32:33):
Dude, your ebooks are full on textbooks.
They really are. When I think ebook, I think like
a little pamphlet, you know, like the free downloads, like
no, like these ebooks, like Ken wrote them.
They are beautiful. They're organized and they're
they're full on textbooks. Yep.
And you're getting them for free.
Professor. And like micro your microphones,
(32:54):
it's so in depth, like you can learn so much from these e-books
alone. And just like having access to
that I think is, is gold. Like you have everything you
need in a full on education likewithin the inner circle.
And it's, yeah, it's, it's greatthe amount of content you're
able to like, just bring to the inner circle.
(33:15):
I was just like, you just be writing textbooks like this is
what I mean. This guy's smart.
He's building computers and writing textbooks like for
funsies. Well, I had, you know, funny
history about that, which was, Idon't know if I mentioned on the
last episode, but I used to write Zelda game guide
walkthroughs for like people on the Internet and I would like go
(33:37):
and snap screenshots and I wouldwrite like really intricate
details on how to do certain things in the game.
You're always meant to do this. So I was, yeah, I was always
making guides, so this is no different.
You're the guide guy. The guide guy and this is where
we're at now and making it like this is really really great and
(33:59):
cuz it's like it's actually helping people and yeah that.
I mean my my journey through audio was interesting because it
wasn't like I wanted to be a teacher in the beginning.
I was literally just learning audio just so I can make my own
stuff come to life. But I mean at this.
Point I'm like repping all your merch right now.
(34:19):
Yeah. Check out Homeric.
Yes, right. I got the Homeric cap, the
Homeric shirt. You got the Homeric beanie,
Homeric hoodie, shirt, long sleeve.
I mean, this is a lot of stuff. HOMERIK OK, plugs over.
Keep going, Ken. But yeah, I mean, if, if that's
(34:41):
that's not enough to, to, to show you, I mean, like when you
get to a point into your career where you can do these sorts of
things and then you can make them sustainable.
That's the that's the key difference, right?
It's knowing how to get to a point where you find success
through your music. But there's also how do you keep
it going and can you maintain what you have right, which is a
(35:06):
process for every artist in their entrepreneurial side of
things. I mean, like being an artist
means that you kind of have to go on the path of an
entrepreneur. They're very similar.
They're very intertwined in manyways unless you give up all your
rights. And a lot of people don't want
to do that, and understandably so.
(35:27):
I mean, it's your music, right? You should have control of it.
But control also means responsibility.
So that's the part where people have troubles.
And that's why we, we talk a lotabout the inner circle because
being a part of the inner circleand all things mental mastermind
in that regard really means thatyou're looking to us as a way to
help you grow. It's not just like, oh, I'll buy
(35:49):
this one thing and then I'm out of here.
It's like, well, if you stick around, you might see growth
quicker in your career because now you're staying active with
all the resources that are available to you, which is how I
like to look at it. Because I did that for a while,
even in my own education, not just through college and like
(36:10):
actually paying tuition, but I'mtalking about even online
courses that I took a while ago that were also the same way.
I had a lot of money spent on that kind of stuff, but it
helped me. It helped.
Me a lot, yeah. I don't regret spending it at
all. It was.
It was. Great.
I got this one course that was cool.
It was just like download a bunch of chord progressions like
(36:32):
MIDI. Yeah.
And I was able to just like, come up with like, I just, you
know, put 4 chords down and thenI can just like come up with
everything else from there. Yeah, like, get me started.
The 1st 5 minutes is what reallycounts with songwriting.
If you can just like, stick it out for 5 minutes, you'll get
sucked into it. Yep.
So like, I don't know, I like that course.
(36:53):
That one stuck out to me. Yeah, well, we have something
very similar in music theory, metal music theory.
There is some MIDI files that you can download while you're in
metal music theory to help you along with your productions as
well as all the examples that are there for you to listen to.
But yeah, those kinds of assets are like really helpful cuz they
just help to jump start something, right?
So you can just kind of go and just rather than start from
(37:17):
scratch, you have a little something to lean off of and
build inspiration from. And it's great that you included
that in your music theory coursebecause, you know, you and I,
we've both taken so many courses.
We talk about it, you know, it'sjust like we learned a lot from
these courses. And being that we did invest in
a lot of courses just like in the past decade or so, we knew
(37:41):
what a good course looks like. Yeah, we know what we want in a
course we wanted to exceed valueand didn't want.
Yeah, exactly. So that really does like take
play in the course creation likeprocess.
Absolutely. But more importantly, it's
really, this is a relational industry.
(38:03):
You know, you can be really goodat audio.
You could be a virtuoso on vocals or guitar or bass or
drums. You could be all these things.
But it still doesn't mean anything if you can't establish
relationships. And that's a really key part of
(38:23):
being in the industry for at least the music industry and
most industries in general, relationships are what you use
in order to get to the next level.
We wouldn't be here where we aretoday without him.
So, but it's, it's on you to know your part, right?
So I look at it as, and a lot ofpeople say this thing too, which
(38:46):
is like, oh, you make your own luck kind of thing, right?
You've heard that before. Well, you know, sometimes I
think like luck is a thing, but like being ready for luck is an
is another one. Because the whole point about
luck is that when the moment arises, Are you ready for it,
Right. And the most that you can do in
(39:10):
order to be ready for it is to work on yourself, work on the
techniques, work. On all the things.
Yeah. And then when that opportunity
arises, you have to have the confidence and you have to have
also in a sense, some of the charisma in order to make that
happen. That's a, that's a big lesson
with a lot of things in, in lifeand also my, my students and
(39:33):
your students who have recognized that it goes beyond
just knowing what you're good at.
And it's always good to be prepared for that look too,
because it's like you have, you can get lucky with certain
things. A video can go viral, your music
can go #1 but if you're not ready mentally, if the
foundation is not prepared for it, it could be hard to sustain.
(39:54):
Which is why, you know, sometimes you hear about like
one hit wonders all the time, you know?
And yeah, exactly. So it's like to.
Live your life and prepare for good things to happen with your
music. You know, some, we'll call this
like manifestation, just alreadyfeeling like you are going to
win when it does happen and it'son its way.
(40:16):
Like you're ready for it. And you could actually like, you
know, maximize that win for yourself, you know?
I love that. I love that it's a, it's a
total, a total real thing. You know, I feel like Ellie and
I were. We're both pretty cosmic and
spiritual about certain things. I mean in general I I'd say.
(40:38):
Keep it on the hush hush. But yeah, no, I, I, I I be
reading my tarot cards every morning.
Yeah, I mean, you know, like I had this discussion with with a
good friend of ours about just in general the implications of
things like religion and how it affects our way of life.
But you know, even though like Iwould consider myself a
(41:01):
secularist and I resort a lot toacademia and science and all
this kind of stuff, I still finda lot of value with stuff with
religious. Context.
Faith. Yeah, faith in general, because
just because it it is religious does not mean that it's not good
(41:24):
information. You know it, it can still be
very helpful to somebody, whether it's guiding them
through an emotional time or setting boundaries on someone,
you know, and how they approach the world and what they're
willing to accept. It offers guidance for a lot of
people. And I think that that's really
(41:45):
important to realize that, you know, whatever it is that you
know, you believe in and how youmove forward in the ways of the
music industry. A lot of the faith versus the
practicality of what you do are kind of intertwined here too,
right? Because you have to have faith
that things are going to work out and that you're moving in
(42:07):
the right direction. So long as you continue to make
motions that are tangible in thenow that you can actually, I
guess not necessarily calculate,but but but acknowledge and know
that there's actionable improvement.
Yes, yeah. So you're, you're saying that
like everything that you do, right, you want to ask yourself,
(42:30):
this is a good way to, you know,determine how your day goes.
If you ever have like anxiety orif you get over stimulated or if
you feel like overwhelmed, especially if you have like
musical projects that you just want to get to.
So whenever you are about to do something, just ask yourself, is
this going to help my purpose oris this something that I'm going
(42:52):
to feel bad about later? You know, and obviously there's
a Gray area to that. Hang out with your friends, go
out, like have a life. But finding that balance too, of
like, do am I going to just like, sit on the couch all day
and watch TV or watch Tik Toks? Or am I going to, like, get up,
get to the computer and move some MIDI around?
(43:13):
Because I know I'm going to feelreally good at the end of the
day if I have some progress towards that song I'm trying to
compose. Yeah.
So it's just good to like do things generally, to do things
purposefully. Yeah, and I don't know if it's
an unhealthy relationship, but sometimes I feel like I have to
feel a little shitty about myself in order to get things
(43:36):
done. It's drive.
OK, You know what I have to say about that?
That it OK watch me just like belike it's.
So funny. Like just like that person that
just like finds good into anything.
Like, you know what's good aboutthat, Ken it?
Go on. OK.
(43:57):
Looked at me and I have lost. What's good about it?
Self-awareness. There you go. self-awareness is
such a strong, like, superpower.If you are aware of the fact
that like, yeah, I like to rot and I know sometimes it makes me
(44:19):
feel like, you know, crap. Like if that's drive to get your
music done, do it. Whatever you know fuels your.
You know, yeah. You know, honestly though, like
once it's done though, and it's out there, it's a, it's a
relief. It really is.
But I gotta say something because if you need a rot, rot,
(44:42):
OK, and then give yourself some grace for doing so.
Just know that tomorrow is another day.
There you go. I'm this is, you know, I like to
rot sometimes, OK, sometimes we're just tired.
I need to chill on the couch andjust like watch some videos.
And then if that's happening, I'm just like, you know what,
I'm going to own this and give myself grace because tomorrow
morning I'm going to wake up. I'm going to grab a Celsius.
(45:04):
I'm going to sit at my computer and I know what I'm going to do.
You know one of my students. It's a balance, it's.
A one of my students called Celsius Classic, he said.
He said that's classic. Really.
Is that like a Gen. Z thing?
I don't know, but I felt immediately old.
Well, everything makes me feel old.
Oh my God, can I just tell you something that did not glancing?
(45:25):
OK, I thought this thing was new.
For those listening right now, love you.
I have a funny story, OK? And if you're millennial,
listen. OK, So I was at Christmas,
right? We were at your cousin's house.
And I'm, you know, I'm a millennial.
I'm 32 years old. You know, I'm like, I'm gonna,
I'm gonna spot like I'm in a good spot, I think, you know,
(45:48):
but like it's setting in. It's setting in.
I know that I'm getting older. And I sat that I sat there.
He has like a huge, huge, huge record collection.
And then there was this one thing that I saw.
I had kiss on it and I picked itup and I was like, hey, I don't
know what this is. What is this?
The A track? I didn't know what it was.
(46:09):
Yeah. And then like your cousin was
just like, Oh my God. Oh my God, they don't know what
this is. Oh my God. an A track.
And he's explaining it to. I was like, you made me feel not
old right now. Yeah.
Like I finally feel like a kid I.
Was like, I need to hold on to this feeling for as long as I
can because it I was just like, wow, like.
(46:29):
Yeah. A track how long I'll be able
to. Do that a set.
Yeah, yeah, they they were the late 70s.
I was just so happy I didn't know what that was because
that's not something that happens to me anymore, OK?
Wow, I. Had I had a cassette?
I had cassette tapes growing up.OK.
Yeah, I remember cassette tapes and yeah, again, millennials.
(46:51):
And, you know, part of, like, I think what's amazing about
millennials specifically is thatwe had the last chance to
experience the world before the digital revolution took over.
You know, my childhood was like on a bicycle with like dirt and
like in the playground until thestreet lights went on.
They didn't have Roblox, right? I don't even know what Roblox is
(47:12):
still. And I looked it up thoroughly
because and I was like, I still don't get it, but whatever.
Like we didn't, we didn't have screens, you know?
We we had to play with actual Legos, not Minecraft.
So it was it was a special time in a kid's life to be in the 90s
for for us. Yeah, being.
A kid in the 90s was like such avibe or.
(47:33):
Even like mid mid 80s, you know,it was like it was a vibe.
Even though everything we consumed at that time is being
recalled now, when we were like qualified for compensation, it
was still a great time to be. Plastic.
Like if you grew up eating like this, then like, are you you OK?
Yeah, I mean, like, you know, glow in the dark Lucky Charms
are probably good for your diet.Lucky Charms is, you know what
(47:56):
got me through the pandemic, OK,Like, having like a gut full of
that growing up made me like, superior.
Yeah. And then looking in the toilet
and being like, why is it glowing?
Is, is this where the podcast isgoing?
So, you know, if you're a musician, if you're a musician,
it's important to know about audio and glowing shit, OK?
(48:16):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, Just take advice from us
and you'll know how to deal withradioactive digestive tract
issues. I don't know.
This is hilarious. Anyway this?
Is a good. This is a good place to stop, so
thank you everybody. You know, coming on to Metal
Mastermind, the inner circle is always available.
(48:40):
We are the ultimate resource formetal artists.
We seek to help you become the total package to create your own
sound. This is part of what we do.
And if you haven't checked out the inner circle, go to
metalmastermind.com. You'll see links all over the
place for the inner circle, but you can also go directly to
slash the dash inner dash circle.
(49:02):
You'll find all you need to knowabout what we offer in our
program. And we are hoping that you start
off 2025 with a bang and we wishyou nothing but prosperous
futures. And of course, within everything
that we do, always remember to create your own sound.
Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Metal
Mastermind. Happy New Year to you all.
We're starting off 2025 with a bang.
So happy to see you that you're here.
And Ellie and I, we are going totalk about some interesting
stuff today, as we always do. More particularly though, we're
(00:27):
going to talk about our journey through through audio and what
that looks like for you, and maybe you'll learn something
from our own experiences today. So.
Well, it was nice to take a little holiday break, but I'm
happy to be on the pod. Yeah, it's always busy during
this time of year having, you know, family members seen and
(00:53):
like going out to see friends. I mean, it's always just kind of
like a jumble of things to do so.
Yeah, and it was important that we took that time too, because
like we're, we've been working so hard with all the new things
with Metal Mastermind. And if we didn't allow ourselves
to like take, you know, those 3-4 days just to be with family
(01:14):
and in the moment, you know, it's like it's important.
It's, it's the only way you can be productive if you have that
balance. So I'm glad we took that little
break and now we're back and I feel like so refreshed.
Do you feel refreshed, bro? Yes.
In a way, I kind of feel like the holidays always go by so
fast like that in a in a sense, like it felt like maybe just a
(01:38):
slightly longer weekend. I don't know, I guess I get.
All one big fever dream. I don't know exactly.
I thought it was still October. Like what?
What? Yeah, no, I feel we did some
pretty good stuff during the holidays.
I actually got a chance to work a little bit on my audio book,
which is very exciting. And then we got some work done,
(01:59):
but we were spending a lot of time with family too, which was
also always very good to, to do.I mean, now this is this is what
you do during the holidays I. Just I feel like so good too,
especially starting off the new year, just like a lot of good
meetings, a lot of, you know, meeting a lot of new people with
Metal Mastermind and I'm just I can't wait for it to be like
(02:20):
public and you know, those changes to come into fruition.
Like it's just like exciting stuff coming we.
Do Yeah, yeah, there is a lot ofexciting stuff you guys will get
to learn about that in time, but.
In time, just, you know, stay, follow, stay subscribed and, you
know, stay tuned. You'll see some stuff come out.
But we're we're here to like, you know, give you that daily
content, that daily metal education.
And today we're gonna dive into our experience a little bit
(02:45):
because I think it's pretty relatable, to be honest.
Like we're both musicians. I'm a singer, you're a drummer,
you know, and I know online you're very much audio based,
but that's not how it started. You are a drummer, your father
is a drummer. Like very musician, heavy family
and upbringing. So I want to learn that side of
(03:05):
you because we have a lot of, you know, musicians that listen
to us and follow us and we want to share why audio was the
reason why we could take our ideas and vision to the next
level. Well, yeah.
Well, audio for me, and, you know, you tell me what your, you
know, version of this is like, but audio for me was actually a
(03:29):
choice that I made because I didn't get to go to the school
that I wanted to go to. So I was dead set on being just
a drummer. I had applied to a Conservatory
and I was like super excited to go but I couldn't afford it.
I got into it twice. Yeah.
(03:51):
And yeah, my second time I was like, yeah, I'm.
Going to say the school. Oh yeah, yeah, Berkeley.
I mean, it was like it. Was going to be a Berkeley boy
but it's so expensive. Oh, yeah, yeah.
No, I mean, that's just kind of the nature of these things.
And like, when you're in high school, you're told so much
about, like, how college is going to change your future.
And I was like really dead set on going to Berkeley because I
(04:14):
thought it was going to be my best choice.
Lo and behold, I wasn't able to go because finances, it's a real
thing. I don't know about you, but we
have, we had this choice of either like staying in New York
or trying to go to a different city for a different school.
And I didn't get into most schools that I applied to
(04:37):
because I was slacking my last year at high school.
And I ended up basically qualifying for a Community
College. And then my mother actually
convinced the Community College to transfer me to another
Community College. And then in that program, I
decided, I guess I'll go for music production because I was
(04:59):
like, I wasn't so confident thatthe music performance major was
going to do as much as I was going to get at Berkeley.
So I decided I was going to justto do the trade right audio
engineering and. So on talent alone the best
school pretty much for musiciansexcept to do twice.
(05:22):
But in regards to like other things based on grades or
whatever, it was hard to get. Into.
I didn't, I didn't get into this.
Yeah, I didn't get the scholarship money that I wanted.
OK, that's how it. Makes sense.
OK, So yeah, that would have been the only way.
I would have gone to Berkeley and then the other schools.
Yeah, I just might by merit alone.
It wasn't enough. So I literally only got into a
(05:45):
Community College and I was like, OK, this is where I'm
going to have to be. I was pouting the entire time.
And then I grew to love what I was doing.
It's how we reconnected, so I'm glad you went, but continue.
Right. So but that was that was
essentially like how it started for me.
And that was 2010 into 2011. And yeah, I had people who
(06:11):
recognize that I was really starting to like music
production and took me on some gigs.
Shout out to Rob Anderson. This is he was my first gig gig
opportunity that I had as a student and he was one of the
best teachers I've ever had. So shout out to him.
(06:32):
And it was. Like a chain of events that led
you to majoring in music production and audio.
And I and your professors recognize the fact that you have
such a sponge like brain and youcould absorb information like
very easily. You're just like, so smart.
Thank you. Well, I mean, it's like I'm
very, it's about certain things sometimes it doesn't always
(06:56):
absorb. But when it comes to like
anything technical, like I'm very, I'm very good with that.
And I've always been very technical, even as a kid, like
one of my first projects was like building computers and
stuff like that. So that was.
That's normal. Yeah, I know.
But what about you? What was what was it like for
you like when you were getting into audio for the first time?
(07:16):
I just, well, I just think that's interesting, Ken, because
it's like, it seems like it was a chain of events that you kind
of like came to audio music production.
And in the way that you just like, took that and, like,
skyrocketed with it is very inspiring, you know, And you're
able to do so much music following that too.
So, you know, it's like when life gives you lemons, right.
(07:38):
But with me. With me.
Yeah. So we both went to the same high
school. Like, I'm a vocalist, so very
musical all my life. Broadway, opera, gospel.
That was my upbringing. And then one time, one day I was
like 11 years old and I heard Nirvana for the first time in
(07:59):
Linkin Park, and everything changed.
Yeah. I was like, oh, OK, I like this.
And it just kept going from there.
And then after high school, I started getting more into metal.
The first metal band that I really started following was
Between the Buried and Me. And that's how I discovered
bands like Dream Theater, Devin Townsend, a Ghost, and I was, I
(08:22):
was just like hooked on progressive metal.
It was feeding my narrow divergent brain and it it it
scratched an itch that I did notknow I had.
It was just like stimulating in the right way.
Like it was epic. It was like very visual.
And for people that, like, listen to music and they can
experience it in a visual way, progressive metal was like, what
(08:46):
did that for me? So amazing.
Yeah. So in my early 20s, not even
like, I think I was like, 18 when I started, like, my first
band. I sing in a horror punk band.
A lot of Misfits covers, you know, we did a lot of, like,
Primus, stuff like that. And I really got to like
practice that edgy side of my voice because, you know, up
(09:07):
until then it was just mainly like opera and gospel and, and
choir music because that's what I did in school.
But then, you know, from there Ijoined a progressive metal band.
Absolutely loved like writing songs for that and, and singing.
And then I just came up with these ideas, a storyline.
(09:30):
And I just had like this vision,like this musical vision, like
something that I wanted to perform and, and see through,
but I just did not know, not know how to, you know, compose
it or even explain it correctly to like, you know, musicians.
Like, I had no way to translate it, you know, And that's around
(09:52):
the time I met Ken because I waslooking for a drummer, a
guitarist. I was like, I want to try to
make these original songs happen.
And Ken was like, oh, you shouldtake the music production
program at, you know, the Community College, and you took
it, and it's basically how you learned how to compose your
(10:14):
music. Yeah.
So I was like, yeah, let me do that because I was dinking
around on Garage Band. But I was like, if I can, like,
get really good at this, then I can really make something.
And then I took, you know, the whole program got straight A's.
I was really into it. And the professors there really
are amazing, aren't they? They really like can recognize
(10:37):
people that are serious and, youknow, very into it and and they
really want to give you those opportunities to like learn and
grow with your projects. Some of them we still talk to to
this day. Yeah, some of them are good
friends. Yeah, so yeah, shout out to
Queensboro Community College music production program.
They're awesome, honestly. Yeah, we got a lot of our start
through Queensboro. It was a it was a place we like
(10:59):
to call home. I mean, we're both Queens kids,
so a Community College that served this community was
really, really great to the bestof its stability.
And it's still running very strong today.
And in some ways it's exceeded other institutions, which is
really good to see. Yeah, I have like first hand
experience cuz like from there Igot into a really like a good
(11:21):
four year program and I was justlike I learned more from
Queensboro amazing than I did inthe four year program.
And it was just more engagement too, like.
I mean, the timing of it was also the pandemic.
Oh yeah, it was in the middle ofthe pandemic.
It was a little, it was a littlehard.
Anyway, I don't want to get too much into school too much
(11:42):
because I want to just talk about the fact that getting that
audio education and really just like diving into that.
I was able to learn how to use Sibelius and I went from
GarageBand to Logic. But in school we dive right into
Pro Tools and like I got to really learn, just like learn
(12:04):
the language. Once you know the language and
understand how like these dolls work, you can pretty much use
any DAW if you just give it the time and you can really figure
out which DAW is right for you and your projects.
So for me, like I love to compose and I have music in my
head and in my phone and like, you know, everywhere that I want
(12:24):
to get into a clean demo so thatI can bring musicians on to play
it and I can get on stage with it.
So like being able to do that inSibelius and then bring that to
Pro Tools to add like, you know,good, like sample instruments.
That's how I was able to do that.
And I'm just a vocalist, you know, And the fact that I had
(12:45):
that power to do that, if it waseverything to me.
Oh my God. Well, now you're not just a
vocalist, you're also a producer.
So I know, right? No, it's amazing.
No, what, what, what, what learning audio for me and for
you, it seems, and for many people we talked to it, it
unlocks the power of able to make something that was, you
(13:06):
know, just an idea tangible. So it's, it's the trade, it's
the execution of being able to record, going through the
process, you know, even mixing and mastering and all that good
stuff too. But production is so much of the
efforts of, you know, like a collection of experiences that
(13:29):
you happen to gain over time. And then when you execute it
onto an idea that you have like nowadays, it becomes a lot more
fluid. And to get to that point of, you
know, even audio mastery, I mean, it takes a long time.
I mean, there's a great proverb that says you become a master at
(13:51):
something with 10,000 hours or something like that.
And I tell that to a lot of students too, because, you know,
one of the institutions that I work at it's, it's a clock hour
school. And basically they have to
fulfill about 1000 hours before they can graduate.
And so that kind of system, you know, when I tell them, and it's
(14:14):
about basically it encompasses four days a week out of an
entire year, right? Just consistently through the
whole year. And a lot of the students, you
know, I have to tell them I said, like, I know you're going
through a lot by going through the schooling that you're doing,
but you have to understand that you are just scratching the
surface and that your knowledge and mastery of audio will happen
(14:37):
over the next decade of your life, you know?
And they're like, oh, my God. It's like, yeah, Well, you know,
and when you become, I think, a master at something, I think
about like, even like, you know,any of these martial arts, like
Kung Fu or whatever, right? It's always like, how do they
talk to their students? It's like, oh, you have to move
like water and all these sorts of things.
(14:59):
And they have these analogies for certain things.
But when you see the master do it, it does very much look like
they're so in the motions to a point where it's instinctual,
right? They don't really think about
what they're doing. They just have internalized it
so much that now it's natural for them.
So I feel it's very much the same way here too.
(15:20):
Like when you think about something that you want to do in
audio, after amount of time thatyou've mastered it, it becomes
like, I already know how to get the thing that I'm looking for.
And then you just perform a couple of moves and you can do
it really fast. You're really efficient with it.
And that just happens over time through your experience and the
things that you've learned and thoughts you shared with others,
(15:40):
right? Those like keyboard shortcuts
are like just reactions at this point.
Yes, very much. I'm still learning some stuff
though. Like, what's really cool about
this industry is that you know how to probably get the sounds
that you might be thinking of inyour head, but sometimes you
just haven't thought of a way, which is always so cool.
(16:02):
Yeah, When I first use Reactor, I was just like, OK, it's like a
visual explanation of how sound happens in a DAW.
What why why is this? A thing like this is like
something I know now. I don't know.
It's it's interesting. There's a DAW for literally
everything. And if you used Reactor before
you, you know what I'm talking about.
(16:24):
It looks like the inside of a motherboard.
Yeah, I mean, reactor's very cool.
And I mean, synthesis in generalis like really the, the
foundation and you know, of the anatomy of a sound, right?
So if you, if you understand sound and an anatomical level in
a sense that you can decipher like anything that comes through
it, I mean, you know, you have the power to look anything.
(16:45):
It's really, it's really amazing.
But I'm still like, so like inspired by some of my friends
who have given me ideas. You know, an example would be
recently where it was like, oh, I didn't really think about
putting a Leslie effect on the delay of a vocal.
(17:06):
And what does that mean exactly?Right.
So like, you know, like the the,the organ, the Hammond B3 organ
that you would hear like on, youknow, churches and stuff like in
gospel music, like organs. Well, the Leslie is the box
where it goes like wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.
Right. So you get that effect and you
put that on a delay of a vocal and you have your vocal now
(17:28):
start to sort of like, no, no, with like some really cool
effects stuff that you're doing.I mean, like it adds just color
and texture. Yeah.
Or here's another one. Like this was a good friend of
ours, actually, John. John T He was name John.
Yeah, I know, JT, but shout out to JT for this one.
(17:49):
He was telling me you know don'tthrow away the click track in
your sessions use it for mixing.I was like what do you mean you
would mute the click track but then you would send the click
track in pre fader so that it still sends the signal and you
could use it to side chain and trigger reverb I.
Knew you were going to say side chain.
(18:11):
And like it would be like the click is basically like the
pulse of like what the reverb would be doing.
So you'd be like. It's like ghost click.
Yeah, it's like ghost click, it's breathing, it's.
Really cool instead of like making like a kick track which
might not be as you know, perfect as the right cuz yeah
(18:32):
wow. Yeah, you could use the click
for anything. You could use it to trigger, you
know, down beats on kick drums and stuff like that for, you
know, base coherency and all that.
It's really, really cool. Like like these are things like,
I mean, everybody's heard of like side chaining a kick with
bass and all that stuff, but like nobody really talks about
the click in that way so. We're assuming that a lot of our
(18:54):
listeners here know about like, exactly what we're talking
about. But if you're super new to like
audio and you're not sure, please like reach out to us
because this is like, OK, we'll make a visual of what that looks
like, you know? Yeah, it's, it's so much fun.
And that's that's what I'm saying is, is that.
Want to make sure you all understand how cool what he said
(19:14):
was. I think it's cool.
Yeah, this is like those things about audio that make it so
fascinating, and it's really where the creativity of the
person is. You know, the Sky's the limit in
that case. Every other time, whenever I'm
doing audio and, you know, I'm struggling technically, it's
(19:35):
usually because of a lack of understanding of some sort of
foundational principle, you know?
But when you have no limitationson the technical side of things
because you know it so well, it just becomes endless creativity.
And that's the part where peoplewant to get to.
But it takes a while to get there, you know?
Yeah, So. And I wanted to like, can I add
(19:57):
something real quick? So just like after I graduated
college. I immediately dived into a entry
level audio job, which one does,You know, they want to find a
job in their field. And it was for live sound.
It was for setting up audio equipment.
(20:18):
It was an audio technician job for, you know, TV sets, movie
sets, a lot of intercom systems.I learned so much from that job.
Like so, so more than I could have ever learned in the 2-3
years that I was in Community College.
Like I learned so much from thatjob, but I had to pivot because
it's like you always have to askyourself, it's like, why, why
(20:39):
did I want to learn this? Why did I go back to school?
Why did I learn audio? Because I'm a musician and I
wanted to compose my music and Iwant to sing it on stage.
And you know, your, your main purpose in life, it will catch
up with you. You know, I mean, this is my
experience. Everyone is different.
But if you can relate to this, you know, at one point I had to
(21:02):
decide like, do I want a future in life sound or do I want to,
you know, make a, a change now so that I can, you know, become
an expert in what my main purpose is, which is, you know,
music composition and honestly teaching.
I love to teach, you know, vocals, metal vocals and just
(21:22):
finding more opportunities to sing.
And I did make that decision andit was a hard 1.
And that's just something I recognized too, especially in
audio is like, there's so many avenues you can go.
There's so many like jobs that you can get with an audio
education and you can, you know,get a job and do it and make
good money and get really good at it.
(21:44):
But once you kind of go down OneAve. so far, it's like, is that
where you want to stay or do youwant to like, you know, get
really good at what you want to do for the rest of your life?
You know, right. And again, this is my
experience, but it's just a goodthing to put into perspective
too. When you're like starting off
with like an entry level job andyou see like those years like
(22:06):
starting to like tack on, it's like you want to make sure that
you're doing what you love. 100%I mean the, the amount of
avenues that you're mentioning, I mean it spans all the way from
live sound to teaching to post production to recording, mixing,
mastering, broadcast. I mean like it's the, the list
goes on and on and. On yeah, I learned how to use
(22:27):
phone acts and I realized I qualify for jobs for like ear
monitors at like hospitals, yeah, retirement centers, like
medical fields, like yeah medical like so much you can
learn and so much you can do. Yeah, it's quite fascinating.
And it's one of those things where if you're, if you're, you
(22:48):
know, doesn't have to necessarily be a young person,
but someone who's not aware of the opportunities in audio, it's
a way for someone to also break free of what they thought this
entire industry was all about. Because in the case of what I
mean to say is when you start off young like we did in music,
(23:11):
all you kind of thought about was like, I'm going to be a
musician, I'm going to want to be a rock star.
I want to do all this stuff. But you you're not aware of all
the other opportunities that arearound the field that relates to
music. And so you can take your musical
ability and still earn a living in a different way that still
(23:32):
ties back to music through the trade that you've just learned,
which is audio. So it's a really great way for
someone to explore something newthat when they try it, let's
say, for example, like in schools, they introduce post
production, usually a little bitlater into the curriculum
because it's a little more advanced.
(23:53):
But when students come across post production, they're like,
Yo, this is like fun. I like making movies or I like
doing commercials or I like making video games or all this
stuff. And they're like, wow, this can
this can be an entire career forme that now I actually have been
exposed to. I practiced a bit, I like it and
I want to continue down that path.
(24:13):
And, you know, this is one of those things where, like, you
hear stories about, let's say, composers like Alan Silvestri,
who's, you know, one of my favourites, but he went to
school to be a rock star and ended up becoming a film scorer.
Like, that's so cool to me. So there's like a whole entire
(24:33):
path that can be unlocked by exploring a field that is a
trade. Like audio.
You can do the same even with things like lighting.
I mean, like some people crossover into lighting because
they were into audio, video first or video.
I mean, like this is what we're doing now.
We're doing video and audio for you guys.
Blowing my mind right now and I actually want to like add on to
(24:55):
that because I feel like with musicians, audio is a mutual
language. So let me see if I have the
attention span to like see through this whole thought that
I have. It's great.
I promise you to stay with me. So I think in my perspective,
there's two types of musicians. There's musicians that enjoy
playing and they're down and they want to play.
(25:18):
Even session, session musicians,like, you know, they, they pick
up gigs and they play what's given to them and they just
enjoy playing, you know, being part of projects.
Those are, you know, great musicians to work with.
And then there's musicians that have visions, you know, that
have like, albums that they've composed and now they need to
(25:39):
get musicians to play it. That's like me right now.
And yeah, they just have like visions and they want to bring
it to life, you know, And obviously it's not black and
white, but that's just how I seeit.
And a mutual way to communicate between the person with the
vision and the person that wantsto play the vision is through
(26:00):
that audio education. Because I wouldn't have been
able to do it without that. Because when you have, you know,
when you go to like, school for audio, for example, you're
taking music theory. You know, you're taking, you
know, virtual instruments. You're taking all types of
things that make it possible foryou to communicate with a
musician. You know, whether you're on set,
(26:22):
like a sound check anything or just like with your own personal
project, you have to understand where they're coming from and
like show them or like have themlisten to what what you're
talking about basically. So through like music theory and
audio, I've been able to expresswhat my vision is to musicians,
and they've been able to be like, yeah, I can play that.
(26:44):
And it's like, so magical to actually hear it coming
together. Yeah, it's quite amazing.
I mean it, It just gives you more power.
Knowledge is power, as they always say.
And the more you invest in the skills that you learn for
yourself, the more capable you become to do a whole lot more.
And you know, that kind of comesback around to the ethos of what
(27:05):
Metal Mastermind is all about, right?
Like trying to be the ultimate resource for you guys to not
just learn about like music performance, but to also unlock
music production. And then we're building things
about music business and. Your music theory course is like
robust. Yeah, there's, there's a lot on
Metal Mastermind that we, you know, provide for exactly that,
(27:28):
which is the experiences that we've accumulated or the course
of our careers and our friends who are instructors that they're
also teaching what they've learned over their careers.
I mean, it's a cumulative effortthat has amassed this entire
resource for people to be able to learn, grow, and thrive.
(27:51):
So Metal Mastermind is really special to me in that case.
And you know, I know it is for all of us who have either been a
part of Metal Mastermind or continue to learn from the
platform. And it's very exciting to see
where all of this is going because I know there's going to
be some really, really cool things for you guys down the
road. It's going to be richer, fuller,
(28:15):
more robust than ever. And it's going to allow you guys
to also have access to more things in the industry, which we
think is one of the things that has been missing for a long time
for metal artists. Metal artists are always have
been sort of thought of as, you know, the underground on the
(28:35):
wayside of what's mainstream. So this really gives, I think,
us as a fighting chance to really do the work that we've
always wanted to do, to get recognized for it and to, you
know, pass the torch along and keep the good fight going.
(28:56):
That's what Metal Masterminds always been for me.
And it's a it holds a special place in my heart in that case.
And that's why it keeps going too, because it's like we have a
a genuine team of, you know, instructors that want it share
that. So one really good thing about
the inner circle, and if there'sany listeners that are currently
in the inner circle, you do havethe opportunity to be on the
(29:19):
podcast. We want to hear from students
that have taken the courses. And from what we've seen since
launching the inner circle, there is a 90% completion rate
of the courses. So I mean, how many times have
you bought in a course and it just kind of gathers dust on
your dashboard and maybe you never open it?
Oh yeah. I I still have them.
(29:40):
I still have them somewhere on adrive.
You know, and it always comes back to me like, you know, I'm
going to, I'm going to get back to that one day.
And it's been literally like eight years since I've
subscribed to one of these courses.
And I get it, it's a membership and like, I understand wanting
to finish a course, you know, asquickly as you can so that
you're not like holding on to these courses for too long.
(30:02):
It's honestly the smart way to go.
We understand, you know, customers or you know, people
that are in the inner circle want to like really take
advantage and, and look through those courses and really take
them. You're learning a lot and we're
happy about it. You're really, you know, taking
that education in and that's, you know, the beauty of the
inner circle is that you are going to get the value that you
paid for. So, you know, that's great to
(30:25):
see all these people that are completing the courses and we
want to hear from you. We want you on the the pod.
We also want to promote, you know, your music.
If you have like some music thatyou're able to complete with the
stuff you learn from the inner circle or just whatever you're
working on, you know, like send it over, e-mail it to us.
You know, we'll definitely give you a shout out.
Yeah, we'll, we'll create a playlist for all of our students
(30:47):
who are in the inner circle, youknow, Spotify.
So if you want to share your music there and you're part of
the inner circle, reach out and we're be more, we'll be more
than happy to share the wealth. And in that case, it's a really
good resource. And honestly, like doing it this
way. We've seen better results from
(31:07):
our students. So you know, we're, we're just
letting the numbers talk. In this case, the amount of
enthusiasm from people who take the inner circle has been
tremendous. So thank you for all of those
who are a part of it. We're really excited to move
forward with you. We have a lot more stuff coming.
We've been building already a giant course on how to work an
(31:30):
SSL How to work an audience ASP 8024.
We just released 3 new guitar courses on there.
God, yeah. The three guitar courses from
Alfred Potter are out, and thoseare excellent.
We have Adobe Atmos immersive audio course that's gonna come.
We're working on a lot of stuff right now.
(31:50):
It's like really, really juicy. And I can't wait because I know
we're gonna eventually also get to music business and all this
kind of stuff. We've interviewed many folks
already on music business and those interviews are going to be
in the inner circle for you to learn from so that you can take
away key information about what it's like to do radio promo or
(32:12):
what it's like to do APR campaign or an advertising
campaign. These are all things that we
want to share with you so that you guys have information, you
know, for you to work with. And I mean resources like
templates, ebooks, they're all there too.
I mean like the the ebooks that we have.
(32:33):
Dude, your ebooks are full on textbooks.
They really are. When I think ebook, I think like
a little pamphlet, you know, like the free downloads, like
no, like these ebooks, like Ken wrote them.
They are beautiful. They're organized and they're
they're full on textbooks. Yep.
And you're getting them for free.
Professor. And like micro your microphones,
(32:54):
it's so in depth, like you can learn so much from these e-books
alone. And just like having access to
that I think is, is gold. Like you have everything you
need in a full on education likewithin the inner circle.
And it's, yeah, it's, it's greatthe amount of content you're
able to like, just bring to the inner circle.
(33:15):
I was just like, you just be writing textbooks like this is
what I mean. This guy's smart.
He's building computers and writing textbooks like for
funsies. Well, I had, you know, funny
history about that, which was, Idon't know if I mentioned on the
last episode, but I used to write Zelda game guide
walkthroughs for like people on the Internet and I would like go
(33:37):
and snap screenshots and I wouldwrite like really intricate
details on how to do certain things in the game.
You're always meant to do this. So I was, yeah, I was always
making guides, so this is no different.
You're the guide guy. The guide guy and this is where
we're at now and making it like this is really really great and
(33:59):
cuz it's like it's actually helping people and yeah that.
I mean my my journey through audio was interesting because it
wasn't like I wanted to be a teacher in the beginning.
I was literally just learning audio just so I can make my own
stuff come to life. But I mean at this.
Point I'm like repping all your merch right now.
(34:19):
Yeah. Check out Homeric.
Yes, right. I got the Homeric cap, the
Homeric shirt. You got the Homeric beanie,
Homeric hoodie, shirt, long sleeve.
I mean, this is a lot of stuff. HOMERIK OK, plugs over.
Keep going, Ken. But yeah, I mean, if, if that's
(34:41):
that's not enough to, to, to show you, I mean, like when you
get to a point into your career where you can do these sorts of
things and then you can make them sustainable.
That's the that's the key difference, right?
It's knowing how to get to a point where you find success
through your music. But there's also how do you keep
it going and can you maintain what you have right, which is a
(35:06):
process for every artist in their entrepreneurial side of
things. I mean, like being an artist
means that you kind of have to go on the path of an
entrepreneur. They're very similar.
They're very intertwined in manyways unless you give up all your
rights. And a lot of people don't want
to do that, and understandably so.
(35:27):
I mean, it's your music, right? You should have control of it.
But control also means responsibility.
So that's the part where people have troubles.
And that's why we, we talk a lotabout the inner circle because
being a part of the inner circleand all things mental mastermind
in that regard really means thatyou're looking to us as a way to
help you grow. It's not just like, oh, I'll buy
(35:49):
this one thing and then I'm out of here.
It's like, well, if you stick around, you might see growth
quicker in your career because now you're staying active with
all the resources that are available to you, which is how I
like to look at it. Because I did that for a while,
even in my own education, not just through college and like
(36:10):
actually paying tuition, but I'mtalking about even online
courses that I took a while ago that were also the same way.
I had a lot of money spent on that kind of stuff, but it
helped me. It helped.
Me a lot, yeah. I don't regret spending it at
all. It was.
It was. Great.
I got this one course that was cool.
It was just like download a bunch of chord progressions like
(36:32):
MIDI. Yeah.
And I was able to just like, come up with like, I just, you
know, put 4 chords down and thenI can just like come up with
everything else from there. Yeah, like, get me started.
The 1st 5 minutes is what reallycounts with songwriting.
If you can just like, stick it out for 5 minutes, you'll get
sucked into it. Yep.
So like, I don't know, I like that course.
(36:53):
That one stuck out to me. Yeah, well, we have something
very similar in music theory, metal music theory.
There is some MIDI files that you can download while you're in
metal music theory to help you along with your productions as
well as all the examples that are there for you to listen to.
But yeah, those kinds of assets are like really helpful cuz they
just help to jump start something, right?
So you can just kind of go and just rather than start from
(37:17):
scratch, you have a little something to lean off of and
build inspiration from. And it's great that you included
that in your music theory coursebecause, you know, you and I,
we've both taken so many courses.
We talk about it, you know, it'sjust like we learned a lot from
these courses. And being that we did invest in
a lot of courses just like in the past decade or so, we knew
(37:41):
what a good course looks like. Yeah, we know what we want in a
course we wanted to exceed valueand didn't want.
Yeah, exactly. So that really does like take
play in the course creation likeprocess.
Absolutely. But more importantly, it's
really, this is a relational industry.
(38:03):
You know, you can be really goodat audio.
You could be a virtuoso on vocals or guitar or bass or
drums. You could be all these things.
But it still doesn't mean anything if you can't establish
relationships. And that's a really key part of
(38:23):
being in the industry for at least the music industry and
most industries in general, relationships are what you use
in order to get to the next level.
We wouldn't be here where we aretoday without him.
So, but it's, it's on you to know your part, right?
So I look at it as, and a lot ofpeople say this thing too, which
(38:46):
is like, oh, you make your own luck kind of thing, right?
You've heard that before. Well, you know, sometimes I
think like luck is a thing, but like being ready for luck is an
is another one. Because the whole point about
luck is that when the moment arises, Are you ready for it,
Right. And the most that you can do in
(39:10):
order to be ready for it is to work on yourself, work on the
techniques, work. On all the things.
Yeah. And then when that opportunity
arises, you have to have the confidence and you have to have
also in a sense, some of the charisma in order to make that
happen. That's a, that's a big lesson
with a lot of things in, in lifeand also my, my students and
(39:33):
your students who have recognized that it goes beyond
just knowing what you're good at.
And it's always good to be prepared for that look too,
because it's like you have, you can get lucky with certain
things. A video can go viral, your music
can go #1 but if you're not ready mentally, if the
foundation is not prepared for it, it could be hard to sustain.
(39:54):
Which is why, you know, sometimes you hear about like
one hit wonders all the time, you know?
And yeah, exactly. So it's like to.
Live your life and prepare for good things to happen with your
music. You know, some, we'll call this
like manifestation, just alreadyfeeling like you are going to
win when it does happen and it'son its way.
(40:16):
Like you're ready for it. And you could actually like, you
know, maximize that win for yourself, you know?
I love that. I love that it's a, it's a
total, a total real thing. You know, I feel like Ellie and
I were. We're both pretty cosmic and
spiritual about certain things. I mean in general I I'd say.
(40:38):
Keep it on the hush hush. But yeah, no, I, I, I I be
reading my tarot cards every morning.
Yeah, I mean, you know, like I had this discussion with with a
good friend of ours about just in general the implications of
things like religion and how it affects our way of life.
But you know, even though like Iwould consider myself a
(41:01):
secularist and I resort a lot toacademia and science and all
this kind of stuff, I still finda lot of value with stuff with
religious. Context.
Faith. Yeah, faith in general, because
just because it it is religious does not mean that it's not good
(41:24):
information. You know it, it can still be
very helpful to somebody, whether it's guiding them
through an emotional time or setting boundaries on someone,
you know, and how they approach the world and what they're
willing to accept. It offers guidance for a lot of
people. And I think that that's really
(41:45):
important to realize that, you know, whatever it is that you
know, you believe in and how youmove forward in the ways of the
music industry. A lot of the faith versus the
practicality of what you do are kind of intertwined here too,
right? Because you have to have faith
that things are going to work out and that you're moving in
(42:07):
the right direction. So long as you continue to make
motions that are tangible in thenow that you can actually, I
guess not necessarily calculate,but but but acknowledge and know
that there's actionable improvement.
Yes, yeah. So you're, you're saying that
like everything that you do, right, you want to ask yourself,
(42:30):
this is a good way to, you know,determine how your day goes.
If you ever have like anxiety orif you get over stimulated or if
you feel like overwhelmed, especially if you have like
musical projects that you just want to get to.
So whenever you are about to do something, just ask yourself, is
this going to help my purpose oris this something that I'm going
(42:52):
to feel bad about later? You know, and obviously there's
a Gray area to that. Hang out with your friends, go
out, like have a life. But finding that balance too, of
like, do am I going to just like, sit on the couch all day
and watch TV or watch Tik Toks? Or am I going to, like, get up,
get to the computer and move some MIDI around?
(43:13):
Because I know I'm going to feelreally good at the end of the
day if I have some progress towards that song I'm trying to
compose. Yeah.
So it's just good to like do things generally, to do things
purposefully. Yeah, and I don't know if it's
an unhealthy relationship, but sometimes I feel like I have to
feel a little shitty about myself in order to get things
(43:36):
done. It's drive.
OK, You know what I have to say about that?
That it OK watch me just like belike it's.
So funny. Like just like that person that
just like finds good into anything.
Like, you know what's good aboutthat, Ken it?
Go on. OK.
(43:57):
Looked at me and I have lost. What's good about it?
Self-awareness. There you go. self-awareness is
such a strong, like, superpower.If you are aware of the fact
that like, yeah, I like to rot and I know sometimes it makes me
(44:19):
feel like, you know, crap. Like if that's drive to get your
music done, do it. Whatever you know fuels your.
You know, yeah. You know, honestly though, like
once it's done though, and it's out there, it's a, it's a
relief. It really is.
But I gotta say something because if you need a rot, rot,
(44:42):
OK, and then give yourself some grace for doing so.
Just know that tomorrow is another day.
There you go. I'm this is, you know, I like to
rot sometimes, OK, sometimes we're just tired.
I need to chill on the couch andjust like watch some videos.
And then if that's happening, I'm just like, you know what,
I'm going to own this and give myself grace because tomorrow
morning I'm going to wake up. I'm going to grab a Celsius.
(45:04):
I'm going to sit at my computer and I know what I'm going to do.
You know one of my students. It's a balance, it's.
A one of my students called Celsius Classic, he said.
He said that's classic. Really.
Is that like a Gen. Z thing?
I don't know, but I felt immediately old.
Well, everything makes me feel old.
Oh my God, can I just tell you something that did not glancing?
(45:25):
OK, I thought this thing was new.
For those listening right now, love you.
I have a funny story, OK? And if you're millennial,
listen. OK, So I was at Christmas,
right? We were at your cousin's house.
And I'm, you know, I'm a millennial.
I'm 32 years old. You know, I'm like, I'm gonna,
I'm gonna spot like I'm in a good spot, I think, you know,
(45:48):
but like it's setting in. It's setting in.
I know that I'm getting older. And I sat that I sat there.
He has like a huge, huge, huge record collection.
And then there was this one thing that I saw.
I had kiss on it and I picked itup and I was like, hey, I don't
know what this is. What is this?
The A track? I didn't know what it was.
(46:09):
Yeah. And then like your cousin was
just like, Oh my God. Oh my God, they don't know what
this is. Oh my God. an A track.
And he's explaining it to. I was like, you made me feel not
old right now. Yeah.
Like I finally feel like a kid I.
Was like, I need to hold on to this feeling for as long as I
can because it I was just like, wow, like.
(46:29):
Yeah. A track how long I'll be able
to. Do that a set.
Yeah, yeah, they they were the late 70s.
I was just so happy I didn't know what that was because
that's not something that happens to me anymore, OK?
Wow, I. Had I had a cassette?
I had cassette tapes growing up.OK.
Yeah, I remember cassette tapes and yeah, again, millennials.
(46:51):
And, you know, part of, like, I think what's amazing about
millennials specifically is thatwe had the last chance to
experience the world before the digital revolution took over.
You know, my childhood was like on a bicycle with like dirt and
like in the playground until thestreet lights went on.
They didn't have Roblox, right? I don't even know what Roblox is
(47:12):
still. And I looked it up thoroughly
because and I was like, I still don't get it, but whatever.
Like we didn't, we didn't have screens, you know?
We we had to play with actual Legos, not Minecraft.
So it was it was a special time in a kid's life to be in the 90s
for for us. Yeah, being.
A kid in the 90s was like such avibe or.
(47:33):
Even like mid mid 80s, you know,it was like it was a vibe.
Even though everything we consumed at that time is being
recalled now, when we were like qualified for compensation, it
was still a great time to be. Plastic.
Like if you grew up eating like this, then like, are you you OK?
Yeah, I mean, like, you know, glow in the dark Lucky Charms
are probably good for your diet.Lucky Charms is, you know what
(47:56):
got me through the pandemic, OK,Like, having like a gut full of
that growing up made me like, superior.
Yeah. And then looking in the toilet
and being like, why is it glowing?
Is, is this where the podcast isgoing?
So, you know, if you're a musician, if you're a musician,
it's important to know about audio and glowing shit, OK?
(48:16):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, Just take advice from us
and you'll know how to deal withradioactive digestive tract
issues. I don't know.
This is hilarious. Anyway this?
Is a good. This is a good place to stop, so
thank you everybody. You know, coming on to Metal
Mastermind, the inner circle is always available.
(48:40):
We are the ultimate resource formetal artists.
We seek to help you become the total package to create your own
sound. This is part of what we do.
And if you haven't checked out the inner circle, go to
metalmastermind.com. You'll see links all over the
place for the inner circle, but you can also go directly to
slash the dash inner dash circle.
(49:02):
You'll find all you need to knowabout what we offer in our
program. And we are hoping that you start
off 2025 with a bang and we wishyou nothing but prosperous
futures. And of course, within everything
that we do, always remember to create your own sound.
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