February 3, 2025 • 46 mins
In this episode, Ken asks Ellie her more personal journey with her music to uncover what her songwriting process looks like and how it came to be. She reveals the importance of sticking to your gut and exploring the possibilities of working with session musicians to bring her work to life.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:07):
Hi everybody and welcome to another episode of Metal
Mastermind. I am your host Ken Candelas and
I have with me of course my Co host.
Elizabeth Candelas. And this is beautiful.
I love doing a podcast with you.So for you guys who are watching
on a stream here with Spotify orif you are a member of our
(00:28):
YouTube platform form, you'll get actually exclusive access to
seeing videos of the podcast. We are here to talk with
Elizabeth today. A little bit more on the
personal side because I feel like this would be a very, very
relevant thing for you as the listener and for those of you
who are especially creating music.
This is something that I feel isimportant to share.
(00:53):
Sometimes when it comes to musiccreation, we always see like
what's on the final product. We don't see what went on behind
the scenes. For those of you who have been
following me for a while, you guys know that I've been working
on Home Eric for 10 years to getit to the point of release.
And that's a lot of work to do that.
(01:13):
But Ellie has actually been working on her project for
longer than I have been working on Home Eric.
And I wanted to ask Ellie a little bit of that side of her
just to sort of help you guys with a little bit of context,
but also to understand that thisis a journey, right?
Making your own music, creating your own sound.
The things that we talked about,a lot of Metal Mastermind, these
(01:36):
are things that take a lot of time, take a lot of effort, and
Elizabeth is a great person to talk to about that.
I mean, she's my wife. I married her for a reason and
mainly because I want her to share her story and what it's
like for her going through and creating her project.
Daoza. So I want to start off with the
(01:56):
name Daoza. Can you explain to me what Daoza
is and what it means to you? Yeah, so my, my last name is D
Deos. And it's kind of like funny, but
it's like when I married you, I knew right away that I wanted
your last name because as much as I do love my last name, you
(02:18):
know, it's it's my father is Brazilian.
It means of God. It's a beautiful last name.
But like spelling it on the phone, like dispelling, like
DEDE, every letter rhymes with adifferent letter, you know, And
it's just like impossible to spell.
There's a space in between it. It's just, it's, it's difficult.
(02:38):
No one could pronounce it. I've gotten a lot of different
pronunciations. They're pretty fun.
Well. It's pretty beautiful.
It's a beautiful last name. About both of our last names,
actually, right. My candelas means light of the
candle. Yeah.
So it's kind of like. Candles of God.
Candle of God. Right, more metal than that.
Yeah, but I do love the last name and, you know, I love the
(03:02):
origin of it, but Candelas is just easy to spell and it's also
a beautiful last name. So I I decided to go with
Elizabeth Candelas, but then Deoza.
I love the sound of it means Goddess and it had it's like
kind of like a play on my last name.
So it kind of like gives it likeits special place, you know.
(03:27):
So that was like the the real T behind it and I just loved how
it sounded. I just knew whatever the the
band name was going to be, it was going to look good in like
metal old English font. Well, you know, I think in in
other ways. In this.
Part of how I interpret Daoza too, is that you mentioning it
like a goddess is, is very interesting because your your
(03:48):
entire project is very much about dreams and you are such a
creative force in that that it'slike you are creating that
world. So it's very fitting.
Thank you. Yeah.
And I just think it sounds beautiful, like it's, it's such
a cool name. Yeah, that's where that came
from. Yeah, so now Daoza has been in
the works since how long now? OK.
(04:11):
So yeah, I did want to like touch on this because it's
important to to like further explain how, yes, it over 10
years is correct. But it wasn't like, you know,
over 10 years ago I woke up and said I'm gonna start making this
album. And then I just opened up Pro
Tools and went to town, right. Because that didn't take over 10
(04:33):
years. No, no, But the journey was it
was a long journey. So yes, over 10 years ago, I
thought of the concept, you know, and like just the idea of
it. And I always had like melodies
in my head and like music in my head.
I wrote like, you know, a couplelittle songs when I was like a
teenager that I liked but never did anything with it.
(04:55):
So it started like accumulating over 10 years ago.
I've definitely been talking about the idea of like having
this album with this concept about dreams and nightmares.
Like, you know, that was always like the storyline.
And I got to tell you when I waslike, you know, in my early 20s,
a Hostess in a restaurant, like,I would.
(05:16):
It was slow. Like I would write on receipt
paper, just write notes about this concept.
So very. JK Rowling.
Yeah. Yeah.
Oh, my God, Totally. So it was always like a
developing concept that I had. It wasn't until I went to
college where I was where it really started composing the
album, you know. So I want to say like that was
like a good five years or so. Well, that's it's important to
(05:39):
say because people forget like some of these ideas that we
create, they have their roots ina long like time ago, but we
don't realize their tangibility until later in life.
Because you know, you like, thisis one of those things where
it's like, don't delete your old, you know, voice memos of
(05:59):
like your ideas like you never know when they become very
useful. Yeah, make an archive folder and
just stick it all in there. Yeah, actually now.
That you mention it, I actually included in in Homeric stuff
that when I was 16 years old too.
Yeah, it's like you you get these projects and you shelf
them. Yeah, little melodic ideas,
whatever. But then, you know,
conceptually, you know, for me, it was my, my thing came in like
(06:21):
when I was, you know, 10 years ago when I wanted to do the
Dante's infernal thing. But you had melodies and ideas
and but then you had this concept that you wanted to do
this about dreams. And it took, it took time to
develop that process, right. So, and production wise, you
know, you, when you start the journey of saying, OK, now we're
(06:41):
recording or we're now we're writing these things down into
MIDI and you're producing this stuff, you know, that's another
leg to the entire experiment, right?
So I find that really fascinating.
I also think it's again, for forall of you listening, we live in
a new world of, of making music.It's very accessible to make
(07:04):
music. Not to say that it's not
expensive like Elon Musk said, which is completely out of
touch. But when we are talking about
making music and high quality music like these things in the
modern age, they take a lot of time.
They take a lot of effort. They still take a lot of
knowledge to do on your own especially, but as you're
(07:26):
creating this stuff, like don't feel like if your music is
taking a long time to make that it's not worth anything, right?
Because this is still your journey.
It was Elizabeth's journey, it was my journey.
We now have to do things very much in ways independently.
And I feel like that's also a beautiful thing, right?
(07:47):
Because now you are unrestrictedin the way that you want to
create the story that you want to tell.
And you can do it on your terms.You can keep all the ownership
of it, right? Yeah, I just think that your
journey is your journey. And there are musicians out
there that do knockout songs fairly quickly.
You know, different genres, different styles, different
(08:08):
skills, like produce different things.
So it's like, you know, I, I knew my music was going to take
a long time. It's super proggy.
And like a lot of it, like I do rely on like intuition to
compose it. There's a certain like vibe I
need to like really like, you know, build onto this album and
(08:33):
this is the what I choose for for my music.
I, I like that approach to it because like, you know, whenever
I compose in that way, it's likea, it's a good quality in my
opinion. I was like, oh, this is like
longevity. So it's why I want to do it this
way. But there's a lot of people that
don't have that process and theycan knockout songs really
(08:54):
quickly. My point is here, don't let them
judge you. Like, open the conversation.
If someone says like, oh, it takes you so long, why is that?
And explain your process to them.
Maybe it's a new process that they've never even heard of, you
know, and and you know, ask themabout theirs.
Like, how do you compose music? But if it comes from like a
(09:14):
hasty kind of place where it's just like, oh, you're never
going to come out with your album, it takes you so long.
Or if they do it in a judgy way,you can always tell.
And that's not your people. There's some feelings there.
No, well, it's just, it's just real life, you know?
Totally. I've experienced it.
You've experienced it our listeners probably.
And, you know, it's like writingyour music is a very personal
(09:37):
thing and like the it's easy to like be hard on yourself.
Yeah, yeah. And that will, you know, delay
you from finishing your projects.
So take away those things that delay you or affect you even,
like, you know, in that way. And like just keep focusing on
the on the prize. And yeah, like when when people
want to like pass judgment, likethey're not in your element, you
(09:58):
know, So that's just something Iwanted to add in there.
Absolutely, and I feel like the journey of a solo artist versus
like a band is a very different one too.
So nowadays, like we have a lot of people who are able to do
these things on their own. So they have a lot of solo
artists out there. Actually, one of the things that
I noticed on I think it was the top Billboard or it was a top
(10:21):
Spotify artists, only like 1 of them.
It was like a band out of like the top 50.
Yeah, is that? Interesting.
I do find that interesting. Yeah.
So I'm. Wondering if it's like, because
when it comes to solo artists and I, I don't know if this is
the case for most solo artists, but I feel like maybe this is
just our personal experience that we're more conceptual.
(10:42):
So we have like a very, you know, specific vision that maybe
represents something. But like, I feel like bands in
many ways, when they create music, it's trying to capture
what happens in the moment between the players.
Well, it's collaborative and andtypically collaboration is
something that happens like whenyou're jamming and stuff, unless
(11:03):
you guys have like a system in place to, you know, build on a
song with all your like, you know, parts.
But I think it's just simply like, getting four to five
people, like, in a band to agreeon one thing, right?
Like, it just takes longer. Sometimes it doesn't work out
when it's one person. They can just, like, spew out
(11:23):
their vision and make it happen.And then, you know, just find
the musicians to fulfill it. Yeah, I've been in both
positions. I've been in bands, and now I'm
focusing on this solo project. 2very different vibes.
Yeah. Completely very intentional
about what it is that you want right.
So that's that's a very important part of this and
something that you you're doing,which I find really exciting is
(11:47):
that you've, you've written everything down, but you are
aiming to mostly record everybody in a very similar time
frame, which is interesting because I haven't done that with
home Eric, or at least I did at one point, but then the band
collapsed. So, but at those moments like
(12:09):
building on after, let's say, like the drum session, like now
we're going to have things like keyboards, guitars, bass, and,
you know, that's all going to berecorded pretty much in a very
similar time frame, if not at the same time.
At least that's what I find thatwe're shooting for, which is
amazing. So can you tell me about like
how you integrate your musiciansinto your process?
(12:32):
What are you looking for? Maybe because like somebody here
on the other side might be at a point where they're like, OK, I
have my compositions down, I want to record them, but I don't
know whether or not I should geta band or if I should just do
it, you know, 1 by 1, hiring people, overdubbing.
What do you think about that andhow would you answer that
question for somebody? I love that question because I
(12:56):
feel like being in my position, you know, somebody that has
composed a whole album and now, you know, working with musicians
to learn my songs. Essentially, you know, I just
did a long audition process witha bunch of lead guitarists and
stuff. And in my position, I find that
(13:18):
you have to like have like a checklist of things or like, you
know, just A to do list or like goals, you know, happening in
like the next few months. Like first we're going to do
this first, we're going to then we're going to do that.
You need to have that organization, but you also have
to like be aware that it's constantly going to be changing.
So anytime there's like a new thing, you have to kind of just
(13:40):
revisit that list, you know? So it's like, like, I had like
this good process going. You know, we're working on like
a live set. So right now I have musicians
learning the songs and, you know, my scores weren't up to
date. So I was like, cool, they need
better scores. So I collaborated with somebody
who does scores for a living just to make sure that they were
(14:02):
like top quality. And that helped a lot.
And I was like, cool, scores aredone.
And then one musician was like struggling a bit.
So I was like, all right, we need to like add an additional
guitarist. So, you know, I made my posts
and I had people submit their video auditions and I found a
great guitarist and I was like, cool, that's all set.
(14:23):
There's constantly things like happening, especially when
you're working with like, musicians that are just down a
play and they believe in the project.
You know, you got to show them that love and respect, respect
their time. So you got to make sure that you
have all these things, like, checked off the list and that
you're constantly looking out for, you know, the quality of
the project. So yeah, that I would be like my
(14:46):
my main advice with that is to roll with the punches and
revisit that To Do List as oftenas you need to.
Staying organized is a big part of it.
Yeah, if you want to essentiallyachieve the highest quality that
you can afford, it comes with a lot of preparation.
And this is, you know, even if you were just a band, when
(15:06):
you're going to go into the studio, right, you want a lot of
pre production for that. You want to rehearse a lot.
You want to make sure that when you go into the studio, it's as
tight as possible as you think you can make it.
And then that's when you create your best work.
So I I totally agree with that. And I think that's a very,
that's very good advice as to not to let yourself be held back
(15:27):
by the things that you need to do, do right, Roll with the
punches, like keep moving forward, keep moving the needle
a little bit more. But to also do it in a way where
you have, you know, very clear goals, very clear, you know, to
do lists on what's important priorities in the music.
And also what I find interestingabout having musicians,
(15:48):
especially when you have like a score, is that the music is
very, very written in an intentional way.
So when a musician interprets the music and they add certain
things like embellishments, thisalso reminds me of a lot of the
old classical composers, where classical composers would also
(16:10):
expect that musicians would apply their own color, right?
Even in the case of chromaticism, right, chroma,
meaning literally color. So there is a lot of that that
happens in the moment. And so when you create, you
know, something that's not, let's say for example, MIDI, and
you actually hire a band, those are some of the things that make
(16:33):
the music feel lively, right? Because it literally comes to
life when somebody interprets the music.
They play the music and they're really good at their instrument
and they know how to read. These are all things that I feel
add just a level of integrity and quality to the thing that
you're creating. I think it's really, really
beautiful what you're doing. And Elizabeth's music is very
(16:55):
progressive too, so it's got a lot of long form songwriting in
there. There's also these interwoven
melodies, and you're a vocalist,which means that your focus on
harmony is like through the roof.
Count the counterpoints are almost, it's almost like if you,
if you take a section of the song and just like look at it
(17:15):
for what it is like break it down.
The counterpoints that I, I added, they're almost like
different songs that just work together when you like lay them
on top of each other. And it was funny that we
mentioned like, you know, shelfing a project, having that
archive folder because like, sometimes I would find like an
area of the song that needed like more layers.
(17:37):
It was too like plain, you know,it just needed like more to, to
more texture. I would visit that archive
folder and I would like find like old composition that was
like, oh, this is like in the same key.
Let me just slap it on top of itand see if it works.
A little bit of like just polishing.
And I was like, wow, OK. Like, you know, it wasn't enough
(17:59):
for it to be a song on its own and made it like years ago.
But like, I just like, stuck it there and it felt like it was
always meant to be there. It was a very intuitive kind of
thing. And like, that's like, it's like
the best feeling in the songwriting process when you
have those moments, it's like, yeah, that works.
And it's like it was always supposed to be there, you know?
(18:19):
Yeah, I love that feeling too. And I always felt that in my
experience, a lot of my ideas have always been like these
short motifs, and then I would just integrate them.
And my job was to be like, how do I make the coolest transition
possible between these ideas, right?
And I feel in some ways like you've done that in your music
(18:40):
as well. Yeah, You have to really trust
your process because like, like I said, like I've had this idea,
this concept, it's like I would,you know, I've been working on
this for a long time. Most of it was just like
figuring out my flow and how to actually truly execute the
vision I had in my head. That meant going back to school
(19:00):
and like learning how to use like, you know, audio and like
Daws and stuff. Like I had to like learn how to
do that because I was like, thisis what I need in order to, you
know, compose the sounds I have in my head and stuff.
And yeah, no, I, I made sure to do that because it was important
to me. Like this album was very
important to me. But like, throughout that
(19:22):
process, you know, I've had musicians just be like, well,
no, that's not how you write a song.
You're supposed to start with the drums or like, oh, there's
it needs to have a song structure.
There's no song structure. Like you have verse, chorus,
verse, chorus. And obviously maybe they've
never really like messed with progressive metal before.
So it like, you know, when you have a lot of different people
telling you what you're supposedto do, you really have to like
(19:45):
TuneIn to your intuition being like, I, I hear you.
I observe what you're saying butlike this is the process I want
to do because this is my my vision and you have to just go
for it. Yeah.
And actually, you know, we just published a very recent video
about metal songwriting, which Ithink it's very.
Relevant in this situation because it's like explores like
(20:06):
the the forms of what like mightbe typical in metal.
But some of the things that I like to point out when I talk
about these things is that theseare just things that can help
give you more clarity or guide you in your creation.
But they're not rules. You don't have to always do, you
know, first chorus, first chorus, bridge, chorus,
whatever, you know, that's a very, you know, typical type of
(20:29):
song form. And there's a formula and it
works in most cases. But you can absolutely explore
other opportunities in your songwriting to make something
that's different, make somethingthat feels refreshing, even
something that feels like it goes on a journey that's
actually, you know, if you want to go back again to these ideas
of classical composers like sonatas have, have you explored
(20:53):
writing a Sonata? Right.
You know, there's only three forms in the Sonata.
You got your your exposition, which is your development of
your idea. And then of course, the
development which takes it to a different realm.
And then you come back to your recap, your recapitulation, take
that idea, try to see if you canmake a song out of that, right.
These are just like old types offorms, but also there are very
(21:14):
new types of forms. And sometimes you're just very
free form. In many cases.
I feel like with film scoring, that's a very good example
because when you write to film, it's, it's all program music.
It's not absolute music, which you could define it as.
Absolute music is sort of like what's purely just coming from
(21:34):
your head. It doesn't have to be
necessarily related to anything,but program music means that
you're writing for something, right?
Like a visual or something of that sort.
But when you take that kind of form, I'm looking at it as
you're taking absolute music andyou have like this program
music, like this idea in your head and you sort of fit it
(21:56):
along with like this journey that you're creating.
I think that's really interesting.
I feel like we share a lot of those qualities when we write
our own music. So going around and writing
music in that way, I feel like those little ideas, those motifs
that we were talking about become even more important
(22:17):
because those motifs can represent, you know, events in
your story or if they open up, you know what it who is this
character maybe in the story or even just overarching themes
about maybe where they are in the story, right?
So I always look at writing songs as very much storytelling,
obviously, in a very musical sense.
But if you look at your song as writing a story, what makes a
(22:42):
good story, right? And you can sort of use that in
a way into making music and you do it very successfully.
I think it's very, very cool. And yeah, so when we come around
to now the idea of like creatingthis world, I know you want to
do this in Dolby Atmos and you want to go into immersive audio.
(23:06):
Have you always, like envisioneddoing this in Atmos or were was
it that kind of a later thing that revealed itself to you?
What did you think? Well, OK, so the Dolby Atmos
aspect of it, it was when I was in college, you know, I was
taking audio engineering music production.
(23:28):
I was very fortunate because my,my college, they, they just
installed like their Atmos system like.
Installed it by the way. He installed it.
Yeah. He used to be a tech at my
school back at back then can installed it.
But I was lucky that I was, you know, taking courses at that
(23:49):
time when when we had that, because when, you know, came to
the time where our teacher was giving us the demo of it, I was
just like, Oh my God, this is like what I need.
So it's like, throughout my journey in college, it was like
there was things that I needed to learn, you know, because you
need certain classes in order toget the degree, right?
(24:12):
And there was things that I was like, OK, this is awesome.
This is what I need. Or I can like, turn this into
this in order for me to, you know, implement it in my album.
My goal and my vision throughoutmy time in college was this
like, what do I need from my album, you know?
And yeah, with Atmos, I just remembered to standing in the
middle of the thing and just, I felt like I was levitating.
(24:34):
I was like, this is great. Like I was just, I got so hyped.
I loved it. I loved the idea of it.
I love the idea of like, you know, all the harmonies.
I always do a lot of harmony. It's like, oh, what if they just
circled around you? And I was like, yeah, that's
what it needs. Or else it just gets lost.
All those little details, those counterpoints.
So it's like songs that I stacked on top of each other
(24:55):
from the archive folder. There will be space for all of
it. And it could actually just be
like, you know, heard all at once.
And I got really excited. Those things that make you like
hyped like that, it's a good sign.
Listen to that feeling. But I wanted to also mention
that I'm very lucky that I got to go.
(25:18):
You know, that music theory was a requirement in order for me to
like graduate and get the degree.
I had to take music theory, and I've been writing songs all my
life without really knowing too much music theory.
But once I started taking that in school, I really got to
understand why my ideas were working and, you know,
(25:41):
understanding why song structureis the way it is, you know, And
in order for me to, you know, successfully compose progressive
metal where it has all these crazy changes, even like genre
changes sometimes, you know, just like crazy changes, I had
to understand why my song structure works so that I could
(26:02):
break it, you know, because the balance of song structure is
there for a reason. You know, you go through the the
changes when you listen to a song and it and it's pleasant,
you know, but with progressive metal, you are rearranging it,
you're adding 10 minutes to yourextending it.
You're you're just doing all types of different things that
is outside of the song structure, but the balance and
(26:24):
that like pleasant change changes that you go through when
you listen to a song that still needs to be there, you know,
when you're breaking the song structure.
Yeah. So it's good to understand what
what it is that you're breaking essentially.
Now what about sound design? Like sound design?
What about it? Well, you like incorporate a bit
(26:45):
of sound design in your music making you want to elaborate.
Like how do you go about doing that?
Like what do you experiment with?
OK, well there is a little bit of sound design so far and it's
just it in some of the songs it's kind of gives me like the
backrooms kind of vibes, like a old faded doorbell.
(27:09):
Like I'll hear it. Like there's like a sound sample
that I hear and as soon as I listen to it, I'm like, this is
definitely like a doorbell from like a 90s toy and it's faded
and it's like all like tinny. It sounds like it's playing on a
on a old vinyl. Like this is giving me some
eerie viby. Like I don't know shit, sorry.
(27:31):
Can I hear something? Yeah, it's just like eerie viby
shit. And I'm like, this needs to go
somewhere. I need to like put it like I
need to like comp it somehow. So that's how I've been with
sound design, but I want to add more of it once I have the, the
visuals complete. Yeah.
(27:51):
And my, my pianist, he's so goodat sound design.
So I'm going to like, work with him a little bit to like, get
that down. There's also like, you know,
like a heartbeat, you know, stuff like that to like kind of
bring you back to this is a story, this is a concept.
So what is your process with sound design?
Because I know that you've done sound design for movies and one
(28:12):
of the requirements, you know, of taking sound design seriously
where you're looking for jobs inthat field is, you know, have
like accumulating a library, youknow, so like walking around
with like a task Cam recorder. And if you like hear a crookedy
fence or like, you know, like a bird or something, like anything
(28:34):
that sounds usable or interesting, you want to record
it. And I know Ken has like a whole
library of things that he's accumulated over the years and
he uses it for, you know, sound design for movies and also for
your music, right. So tell me about your experience
using it in your in your album. Well, it was.
It was a lot of fun. I find that sound design in many
(28:57):
ways are like accents in, in, inmusic.
So when you're using sound design in the context of a
composition, you have to be veryaware of just like the Sonic
palette that it accumulates because it could be very like
broadband, for example, like a lot of frequencies, a lot of
this sort of stuff. So in the mix you might, you
(29:19):
might have to do a little bit more tailoring to that, but it's
very effective for making sure. For example, here's a very good
compositional example. And Mahler would do this.
You know, the old composer, he would have anvils like little
like legit blacksmith anvils with the hammer.
That's so. Gangster.
(29:39):
And he would use that for accents.
And a lot of composers would do this kind of stuff too, where
they would make it essentially sort of like a percussion.
Even the very famous, you know, again with Mahler, he had an
entire thing called the Mahler Hammer, which was like a big
wooden box and you would just basically smack it, go to town
(30:01):
at a certain point, which I findis like a really good starting
point for exploring sound designin your music.
So old composers have always been trying to figure out how to
create really interesting sounds.
And you know, you have, that's why I like in the percussion
world, there's so many differentlike types of, you know, gadgets
(30:24):
and stuff like that you can justplay with.
So in the modern sense, a lot ofthat to me feels like movie
sounds right. Things that you'd go and hear in
a theater. I love cinematic stuff.
I mean, I grew up with movies all my life.
So having a little bit of experience with doing some
(30:44):
movies helped to actually make my music sound more cinematic
that way. And I'm just a fan of the tone,
so. But yeah, we're gonna be
exploring more of these kinds ofthings with your project too,
which I think is gonna be super fun.
What is the? It's called Mickey Mouse thing,
right? I don't know, It's stuck to me
because it's Mickey Mouse and that's adorable.
But being. Like Tom and Jerry or.
(31:05):
Well, Mickey Mouse saying that'ssomething that I see me doing
like my process would sound designed for my album.
Because right now I am in the process of getting my visuals
done. I want to have visuals on on for
my live performances, like the way that like Opeth or Dream
Theater, they have like those like visuals on stage, right?
(31:25):
It's like beautiful artwork that's like just changing and
vibe. So I want to add sound design
that goes along with that. And yeah, I think the concept of
that is Mickey mousing when you're going along with a visual
and then and working in that order.
Is that correct? Is that they say it right?
OK. Yeah, yeah.
And you know, that also begs a question for, you know, during
(31:47):
the mixing process, like are we going to mix, you know, with the
visual in front of us? Like that could be a very cool
way to create immersive content.So it's like almost like we're
mixing a movie. These are just like some things
that with, you know, the power of immersive or the power of
just your creativity. Like you could don't have to do
everything the same way how it'salways been done.
(32:08):
You can always find new ways to do it.
We, like I said earlier in our conversation, we have, you know,
a new world of just creative, you know, intent out there now
because of the technologies thatwe have, the more knowledgeable
that you become, the more you'reable to essentially create
without resistance, right? And that's one of the biggest
takeaways that I feel like beingon your own as a composer and a
(32:31):
producer can really unlock for you.
But you have to be patient with the process.
It's not you. Have to be patient with the
process. And The thing is, I feel like
it's a lot more it's, it's easy to be overwhelmed.
There's like a lot of things that can delay your process.
And I think one of them is maybelike social media, right?
So feeling like you need to keepup with social media in order to
(32:54):
be a musician. This is true.
And just keep in mind that, you know, the musicians that you see
on social media, they have theirproject done already and now
they're at that point where theycan just share, share, share.
And if you're not at that point yet, if you're still working on
your music or you know, like if it's not quite finished yet,
(33:14):
that's the first step. Step number one is having a high
quality product. Thank you.
You know, totally. It's the most fun part too.
So just really enjoy that process, the intuitive process
that the music is still yours atthat point, it's still your
project, it's still yours, it's still like your baby.
Once that's like done, then you give it away.
(33:35):
You know, that's when you post share and you'll know what it
looks like, you'll know how to market it because it'll be done.
You'll understand the vibe, the,you know, if you do some live
shows first, you'll know the kind of people that really like,
you know, resonate with it. So that was just something I
wanted to add because social media is just like you're seeing
people that are at that point where they're done with their
(33:57):
project and now they're showing it to the world.
And you'll get there too, when that time comes, and enjoy that
that the moment where the the album is still yours and only
yours. Right.
And yeah, that's a such a great point.
And you guys really shouldn't feel like if you don't have
(34:17):
anything out there that you haveto rush to make it out there,
right? Like while things are still
relatively, you know, yours and unknown.
That's a beautiful part of the process.
Don't negate the fact that people necessarily know who you
are, because that means that youdon't have that kind of pressure
(34:38):
to create something that maybe you're not that into, right?
Because you want to make sure that what you create is
authentically yours. It's the thing that you've
always been dreaming of making. And I'll say it again, we live
in that time, right? You can really focus on what it
is that you want to create. So create your own sound.
All the things that we talked about here on Middle Mastermind,
(34:59):
it's, it's all relative to the individual independent
songwriter. And that's one of the things
that we really highlight here atMetal Mastermind.
This is to explore like opening that creativity for you so that
you have tools at your disposal that you know how to use, but
you're unrestricted in the way that you want to use them.
(35:23):
And so that process is a beautiful process.
Sometimes it feels frustrating when you know you're working on
things for a long time. You're like, is this ever going
to be a thing? But know that that's a natural
part of the process. Like you're never going to not
have that feeling. So just give yourself some
grace. And sometimes, you know, we need
to hear it ourselves when we talk to each other too.
It's just like, you know, we'll have our feelings of doubt or
(35:44):
whatever, but Ellie and I, what makes us such a great couple is
that we really just work on making sure that each other is,
you know, content and knowing that they have support that
there's not ever going to be a point where they're alone in
that process. And we we help each other out.
So sometimes if you're. Yeah, we get in our own way
(36:06):
sometimes and yeah, it's, we don't realize it, you know, like
we just we're hard on ourselves or whatever.
Or we say, like, oh, we can't dothis or this is not going to
work. Or like maybe it's just not good
enough. It's just like, you know, you
getting in your own way. And that's like something that I
do enjoy people that are taking our courses.
(36:27):
Like when I have students reach out and say the struggles that
they're having, it usually has to do with it just kind of like
inner work, like just being like, oh, I just can't get
through this part. Like, you know, and I'm just
having someone that's been thereand understands and just the
(36:48):
this effect that you're worried about something like that, like,
you know, any delays in your process and the fact that you
reached out for help at all. Like it really says a lot.
And like I'm always going to be the first person to be like you
are exactly where you need to be.
And you know, let's try this, this and that and let's touch
(37:09):
base after a couple weeks to seewhere you're at.
After you do that, you know, it's just you just got to keep
going. You always got to revisit that
To Do List. Yeah, one of the most beautiful
things you actually said to me was something very similar to
that. What did I say?
Which was that you know where you are is exactly where you
need to be. Because what you're creating
(37:30):
isn't isn't necessarily up to you.
It's the universe in a sense, making it ready for it to be
accepted. Yeah, I do.
I do get very, you know, like spiritual in my process and.
No sharing that was very. Do yeah, I know I, I, I, I do
believe in when I say, when I dosay, like the universe has its
(37:51):
plan. And I do want to put this into
terms that everyone can understand because maybe some of
our listeners don't like tap into that in the same way.
But it all does boil down to to the same thing where it's like
when you're writing a song, whenyou're writing your own original
stuff from your own creative brain, Like you have that moment
where you're like, this is right, and this is how it was
(38:11):
always supposed to be. So it's as if the song is
already written and you're just trying to uncover it.
Because when you know it's right, you know it's right
because the song is already, like, created.
You already have the vision for it.
Yeah. You're just picking away at the
rock to to find the sculpture underneath.
So that's a good mentality And you know, whatever higher power
(38:32):
you believe in, whether the universe already has its plan
for you or, or God or what have you like, it's just a very
insightful way to go about it. And I think it leads to a much
more enjoyable experience. Well, one one part of that that
I took as a big take away was that my music was essentially
another entity. It wasn't basically just me.
(38:54):
It was separate from me in a waythat allowed me to uncover this
in a natural way. So I really did appreciate when
you said that to me. I felt like it was very, very
helpful for me to put things in perspective.
I've also always felt in my heart that what I do is very
(39:14):
much like I am a vessel. I'm just, you know, essentially
going to the muses and and the hearing from them what I'm
supposed to be putting down ontotangible form.
And that allowed me to at least visualize a little bit more in
(39:36):
AI guess in a very, yes, spiritual way, but also in a
just, I guess a little bit more of a detached way where I didn't
have to feel like it was all me.It wasn't my ego.
It was its own entity, like I mentioned, you know, So that's
very powerful. And I think the way how you, you
(39:59):
know, give yourself grace for your music is to allow yourself
to also believe that your music is a living thing.
It has its ups and downs. It will reveal itself in time to
you. You have to get to know it
right? So the more time you invest in
your music and the way that you create your music, treat it like
a relationship with your music that you want to foster
(40:23):
healthily, and you are not putting the kind of pressure on
your music or yourself to make it a certain way.
When you start forcing things, then things don't turn out the
way that you want them to. Totally.
If you start forcing a person, they will retaliate or whatever.
Yeah, retaliate. I don't know.
That's the best word to use. They will attack.
But yeah, no, it's like it is like a really relationship where
(40:45):
it's like, you know, you find areas that need improvement and
you want to put in the work and the detail.
You don't want to just like shipsomething out that's like, it's
fine, it's good enough. You do that, that's fine.
Maybe it's a great song. But like when, when you really
want to get it, like quote UN quote, perfect, you know, the
areas that need improvement, youknow, schedule that time to just
(41:08):
like focus on it and put in thatlittle bit of work and you know,
find that balance to to, you know, make that song, that
entity what it always was supposed to be.
I do want to like also talk about like refining your
process. Do you want to add something
before I like head over there. I think refining your process
(41:32):
just takes time. It really is about, in a sense,
trimming some of the fat of whatdoesn't work and discovering
what works for you and what keeps you motivated to keep
going. Yes.
And I do want, yeah, what works for you is important because,
you know, Ken and I, we relate on a lot of levels with our
(41:53):
music process. It's how we, you know, our
friendship began, you know what I mean?
Our relationship began. It's like what we have in common
to the core, but that's our process.
You know, we are very like intuitive with the process.
And you know, we see our our music as its own like entity.
But like what's so fun about music and what's so creative
(42:17):
about it is that everyone has like a different way of, you
know, making music. So it's like if you have like a
band that likes to just drink beers and like jam, you know,
that's great. You know, it works for you.
So it's like figuring out what works for you and then refining
the process. You know, how do you get
(42:38):
productive when that's your process, when you want to just
like jam and drink some beers and like see what happens?
Record it. That's all you got to do.
Make sure you set up that recording.
So it's like, all right, this works.
We love that, but let's make sure that we record it so that,
you know, we can like maybe chopit up like in logic or in Pro
(42:59):
Tools and find the parts that welike and, and work off of that.
And that's how you can use the process you enjoy feels organic
to you, but also be like productive with it.
So whatever your process is, some people just need to be like
super sad to write music. You know what I mean?
How, how do you refine that process, you know, journaling,
getting, getting yourself like in that headspace to write music
(43:22):
that could be like a way so thatyou can be productive with the
process that works best for you and.
We're as it's all fine finding abalance, yeah, you know, if
something's not working, don't let it trail on, you know, for
unnecessary amounts of time. Otherwise, those problems just
build and then working through what feels natural versus what
(43:45):
helps to push you just a little bit more, right?
Because we don't want to just settle.
We don't want to just, you know,get into a position where we're
just like, kind of like, all right, whatever works, it's
fine. But it's like, no, if you want
like to get like really great, great stuff, then you have to
have just a little bit of that, just pushing into a little bit
of uncomfortable space for you to help make something new come
(44:11):
along that you're supposed to receive in that moment, right?
So a balance is super key. And so for those of you who are
interested in, you know, learning more about this kind of
stuff, right, Metal Mastermind, we have resources for you.
We also have a community. If you don't know, we have a
community on Discord. It's about 600 people on Discord
(44:31):
right now. We just, I'd love that.
I love seeing how people just communicate in our community to
each other. They're very supportive.
People share their ideas all thetime and they get feedback.
And in our platform, Mental Mastermind, we've been teaching
since 2020, as officially 2021 when it came to the business.
But the entire journey of Metal Mastermind was all about
(44:56):
empowering independent musicians.
So if you're going to go and youknow, start to explore some of
these aspects of yourself, you know, we can help you.
Metal Mastermind is here to do that.
And so check it out, see what fits for you.
We do have songwriting, music theory, we have studio design,
(45:17):
we have vocals, we have bass guitar.
I mean, like we really got pretty much everything you need
and we're still adding more. So more to come this year.
We're, we're currently working on some really exciting stuff,
including also like Adobe Atmos course that I'm, I'm putting
together. We're working on some more
(45:40):
production stuff with the studio.
It's very exciting times here atMetal Masterminds.
So just stay tuned. And of course, you know, as you
go through your journey, don't don't forget, you know, create
your own sound. That is always the thing that we
want to leave you with because we truly believe that while you
go through this process of beinga musician, don't forget that
(46:00):
it's your sound that you are after.
So always create your own sound.
Hi everybody and welcome to another episode of Metal
Mastermind. I am your host Ken Candelas and
I have with me of course my Co host.
Elizabeth Candelas. And this is beautiful.
I love doing a podcast with you.So for you guys who are watching
on a stream here with Spotify orif you are a member of our
(00:28):
YouTube platform form, you'll get actually exclusive access to
seeing videos of the podcast. We are here to talk with
Elizabeth today. A little bit more on the
personal side because I feel like this would be a very, very
relevant thing for you as the listener and for those of you
who are especially creating music.
This is something that I feel isimportant to share.
(00:53):
Sometimes when it comes to musiccreation, we always see like
what's on the final product. We don't see what went on behind
the scenes. For those of you who have been
following me for a while, you guys know that I've been working
on Home Eric for 10 years to getit to the point of release.
And that's a lot of work to do that.
(01:13):
But Ellie has actually been working on her project for
longer than I have been working on Home Eric.
And I wanted to ask Ellie a little bit of that side of her
just to sort of help you guys with a little bit of context,
but also to understand that thisis a journey, right?
Making your own music, creating your own sound.
The things that we talked about,a lot of Metal Mastermind, these
(01:36):
are things that take a lot of time, take a lot of effort, and
Elizabeth is a great person to talk to about that.
I mean, she's my wife. I married her for a reason and
mainly because I want her to share her story and what it's
like for her going through and creating her project.
Daoza. So I want to start off with the
(01:56):
name Daoza. Can you explain to me what Daoza
is and what it means to you? Yeah, so my, my last name is D
Deos. And it's kind of like funny, but
it's like when I married you, I knew right away that I wanted
your last name because as much as I do love my last name, you
(02:18):
know, it's it's my father is Brazilian.
It means of God. It's a beautiful last name.
But like spelling it on the phone, like dispelling, like
DEDE, every letter rhymes with adifferent letter, you know, And
it's just like impossible to spell.
There's a space in between it. It's just, it's, it's difficult.
(02:38):
No one could pronounce it. I've gotten a lot of different
pronunciations. They're pretty fun.
Well. It's pretty beautiful.
It's a beautiful last name. About both of our last names,
actually, right. My candelas means light of the
candle. Yeah.
So it's kind of like. Candles of God.
Candle of God. Right, more metal than that.
Yeah, but I do love the last name and, you know, I love the
(03:02):
origin of it, but Candelas is just easy to spell and it's also
a beautiful last name. So I I decided to go with
Elizabeth Candelas, but then Deoza.
I love the sound of it means Goddess and it had it's like
kind of like a play on my last name.
So it kind of like gives it likeits special place, you know.
(03:27):
So that was like the the real T behind it and I just loved how
it sounded. I just knew whatever the the
band name was going to be, it was going to look good in like
metal old English font. Well, you know, I think in in
other ways. In this.
Part of how I interpret Daoza too, is that you mentioning it
like a goddess is, is very interesting because your your
(03:48):
entire project is very much about dreams and you are such a
creative force in that that it'slike you are creating that
world. So it's very fitting.
Thank you. Yeah.
And I just think it sounds beautiful, like it's, it's such
a cool name. Yeah, that's where that came
from. Yeah, so now Daoza has been in
the works since how long now? OK.
(04:11):
So yeah, I did want to like touch on this because it's
important to to like further explain how, yes, it over 10
years is correct. But it wasn't like, you know,
over 10 years ago I woke up and said I'm gonna start making this
album. And then I just opened up Pro
Tools and went to town, right. Because that didn't take over 10
(04:33):
years. No, no, But the journey was it
was a long journey. So yes, over 10 years ago, I
thought of the concept, you know, and like just the idea of
it. And I always had like melodies
in my head and like music in my head.
I wrote like, you know, a couplelittle songs when I was like a
teenager that I liked but never did anything with it.
(04:55):
So it started like accumulating over 10 years ago.
I've definitely been talking about the idea of like having
this album with this concept about dreams and nightmares.
Like, you know, that was always like the storyline.
And I got to tell you when I waslike, you know, in my early 20s,
a Hostess in a restaurant, like,I would.
(05:16):
It was slow. Like I would write on receipt
paper, just write notes about this concept.
So very. JK Rowling.
Yeah. Yeah.
Oh, my God, Totally. So it was always like a
developing concept that I had. It wasn't until I went to
college where I was where it really started composing the
album, you know. So I want to say like that was
like a good five years or so. Well, that's it's important to
(05:39):
say because people forget like some of these ideas that we
create, they have their roots ina long like time ago, but we
don't realize their tangibility until later in life.
Because you know, you like, thisis one of those things where
it's like, don't delete your old, you know, voice memos of
(05:59):
like your ideas like you never know when they become very
useful. Yeah, make an archive folder and
just stick it all in there. Yeah, actually now.
That you mention it, I actually included in in Homeric stuff
that when I was 16 years old too.
Yeah, it's like you you get these projects and you shelf
them. Yeah, little melodic ideas,
whatever. But then, you know,
conceptually, you know, for me, it was my, my thing came in like
(06:21):
when I was, you know, 10 years ago when I wanted to do the
Dante's infernal thing. But you had melodies and ideas
and but then you had this concept that you wanted to do
this about dreams. And it took, it took time to
develop that process, right. So, and production wise, you
know, you, when you start the journey of saying, OK, now we're
(06:41):
recording or we're now we're writing these things down into
MIDI and you're producing this stuff, you know, that's another
leg to the entire experiment, right?
So I find that really fascinating.
I also think it's again, for forall of you listening, we live in
a new world of, of making music.It's very accessible to make
(07:04):
music. Not to say that it's not
expensive like Elon Musk said, which is completely out of
touch. But when we are talking about
making music and high quality music like these things in the
modern age, they take a lot of time.
They take a lot of effort. They still take a lot of
knowledge to do on your own especially, but as you're
(07:26):
creating this stuff, like don't feel like if your music is
taking a long time to make that it's not worth anything, right?
Because this is still your journey.
It was Elizabeth's journey, it was my journey.
We now have to do things very much in ways independently.
And I feel like that's also a beautiful thing, right?
(07:47):
Because now you are unrestrictedin the way that you want to
create the story that you want to tell.
And you can do it on your terms.You can keep all the ownership
of it, right? Yeah, I just think that your
journey is your journey. And there are musicians out
there that do knockout songs fairly quickly.
You know, different genres, different styles, different
(08:08):
skills, like produce different things.
So it's like, you know, I, I knew my music was going to take
a long time. It's super proggy.
And like a lot of it, like I do rely on like intuition to
compose it. There's a certain like vibe I
need to like really like, you know, build onto this album and
(08:33):
this is the what I choose for for my music.
I, I like that approach to it because like, you know, whenever
I compose in that way, it's likea, it's a good quality in my
opinion. I was like, oh, this is like
longevity. So it's why I want to do it this
way. But there's a lot of people that
don't have that process and theycan knockout songs really
(08:54):
quickly. My point is here, don't let them
judge you. Like, open the conversation.
If someone says like, oh, it takes you so long, why is that?
And explain your process to them.
Maybe it's a new process that they've never even heard of, you
know, and and you know, ask themabout theirs.
Like, how do you compose music? But if it comes from like a
(09:14):
hasty kind of place where it's just like, oh, you're never
going to come out with your album, it takes you so long.
Or if they do it in a judgy way,you can always tell.
And that's not your people. There's some feelings there.
No, well, it's just, it's just real life, you know?
Totally. I've experienced it.
You've experienced it our listeners probably.
And, you know, it's like writingyour music is a very personal
(09:37):
thing and like the it's easy to like be hard on yourself.
Yeah, yeah. And that will, you know, delay
you from finishing your projects.
So take away those things that delay you or affect you even,
like, you know, in that way. And like just keep focusing on
the on the prize. And yeah, like when when people
want to like pass judgment, likethey're not in your element, you
(09:58):
know, So that's just something Iwanted to add in there.
Absolutely, and I feel like the journey of a solo artist versus
like a band is a very different one too.
So nowadays, like we have a lot of people who are able to do
these things on their own. So they have a lot of solo
artists out there. Actually, one of the things that
I noticed on I think it was the top Billboard or it was a top
(10:21):
Spotify artists, only like 1 of them.
It was like a band out of like the top 50.
Yeah, is that? Interesting.
I do find that interesting. Yeah.
So I'm. Wondering if it's like, because
when it comes to solo artists and I, I don't know if this is
the case for most solo artists, but I feel like maybe this is
just our personal experience that we're more conceptual.
(10:42):
So we have like a very, you know, specific vision that maybe
represents something. But like, I feel like bands in
many ways, when they create music, it's trying to capture
what happens in the moment between the players.
Well, it's collaborative and andtypically collaboration is
something that happens like whenyou're jamming and stuff, unless
(11:03):
you guys have like a system in place to, you know, build on a
song with all your like, you know, parts.
But I think it's just simply like, getting four to five
people, like, in a band to agreeon one thing, right?
Like, it just takes longer. Sometimes it doesn't work out
when it's one person. They can just, like, spew out
(11:23):
their vision and make it happen.And then, you know, just find
the musicians to fulfill it. Yeah, I've been in both
positions. I've been in bands, and now I'm
focusing on this solo project. 2very different vibes.
Yeah. Completely very intentional
about what it is that you want right.
So that's that's a very important part of this and
something that you you're doing,which I find really exciting is
(11:47):
that you've, you've written everything down, but you are
aiming to mostly record everybody in a very similar time
frame, which is interesting because I haven't done that with
home Eric, or at least I did at one point, but then the band
collapsed. So, but at those moments like
(12:09):
building on after, let's say, like the drum session, like now
we're going to have things like keyboards, guitars, bass, and,
you know, that's all going to berecorded pretty much in a very
similar time frame, if not at the same time.
At least that's what I find thatwe're shooting for, which is
amazing. So can you tell me about like
how you integrate your musiciansinto your process?
(12:32):
What are you looking for? Maybe because like somebody here
on the other side might be at a point where they're like, OK, I
have my compositions down, I want to record them, but I don't
know whether or not I should geta band or if I should just do
it, you know, 1 by 1, hiring people, overdubbing.
What do you think about that andhow would you answer that
question for somebody? I love that question because I
(12:56):
feel like being in my position, you know, somebody that has
composed a whole album and now, you know, working with musicians
to learn my songs. Essentially, you know, I just
did a long audition process witha bunch of lead guitarists and
stuff. And in my position, I find that
(13:18):
you have to like have like a checklist of things or like, you
know, just A to do list or like goals, you know, happening in
like the next few months. Like first we're going to do
this first, we're going to then we're going to do that.
You need to have that organization, but you also have
to like be aware that it's constantly going to be changing.
So anytime there's like a new thing, you have to kind of just
(13:40):
revisit that list, you know? So it's like, like, I had like
this good process going. You know, we're working on like
a live set. So right now I have musicians
learning the songs and, you know, my scores weren't up to
date. So I was like, cool, they need
better scores. So I collaborated with somebody
who does scores for a living just to make sure that they were
(14:02):
like top quality. And that helped a lot.
And I was like, cool, scores aredone.
And then one musician was like struggling a bit.
So I was like, all right, we need to like add an additional
guitarist. So, you know, I made my posts
and I had people submit their video auditions and I found a
great guitarist and I was like, cool, that's all set.
(14:23):
There's constantly things like happening, especially when
you're working with like, musicians that are just down a
play and they believe in the project.
You know, you got to show them that love and respect, respect
their time. So you got to make sure that you
have all these things, like, checked off the list and that
you're constantly looking out for, you know, the quality of
the project. So yeah, that I would be like my
(14:46):
my main advice with that is to roll with the punches and
revisit that To Do List as oftenas you need to.
Staying organized is a big part of it.
Yeah, if you want to essentiallyachieve the highest quality that
you can afford, it comes with a lot of preparation.
And this is, you know, even if you were just a band, when
(15:06):
you're going to go into the studio, right, you want a lot of
pre production for that. You want to rehearse a lot.
You want to make sure that when you go into the studio, it's as
tight as possible as you think you can make it.
And then that's when you create your best work.
So I I totally agree with that. And I think that's a very,
that's very good advice as to not to let yourself be held back
(15:27):
by the things that you need to do, do right, Roll with the
punches, like keep moving forward, keep moving the needle
a little bit more. But to also do it in a way where
you have, you know, very clear goals, very clear, you know, to
do lists on what's important priorities in the music.
And also what I find interestingabout having musicians,
(15:48):
especially when you have like a score, is that the music is
very, very written in an intentional way.
So when a musician interprets the music and they add certain
things like embellishments, thisalso reminds me of a lot of the
old classical composers, where classical composers would also
(16:10):
expect that musicians would apply their own color, right?
Even in the case of chromaticism, right, chroma,
meaning literally color. So there is a lot of that that
happens in the moment. And so when you create, you
know, something that's not, let's say for example, MIDI, and
you actually hire a band, those are some of the things that make
(16:33):
the music feel lively, right? Because it literally comes to
life when somebody interprets the music.
They play the music and they're really good at their instrument
and they know how to read. These are all things that I feel
add just a level of integrity and quality to the thing that
you're creating. I think it's really, really
beautiful what you're doing. And Elizabeth's music is very
(16:55):
progressive too, so it's got a lot of long form songwriting in
there. There's also these interwoven
melodies, and you're a vocalist,which means that your focus on
harmony is like through the roof.
Count the counterpoints are almost, it's almost like if you,
if you take a section of the song and just like look at it
(17:15):
for what it is like break it down.
The counterpoints that I, I added, they're almost like
different songs that just work together when you like lay them
on top of each other. And it was funny that we
mentioned like, you know, shelfing a project, having that
archive folder because like, sometimes I would find like an
area of the song that needed like more layers.
(17:37):
It was too like plain, you know,it just needed like more to, to
more texture. I would visit that archive
folder and I would like find like old composition that was
like, oh, this is like in the same key.
Let me just slap it on top of itand see if it works.
A little bit of like just polishing.
And I was like, wow, OK. Like, you know, it wasn't enough
(17:59):
for it to be a song on its own and made it like years ago.
But like, I just like, stuck it there and it felt like it was
always meant to be there. It was a very intuitive kind of
thing. And like, that's like, it's like
the best feeling in the songwriting process when you
have those moments, it's like, yeah, that works.
And it's like it was always supposed to be there, you know?
(18:19):
Yeah, I love that feeling too. And I always felt that in my
experience, a lot of my ideas have always been like these
short motifs, and then I would just integrate them.
And my job was to be like, how do I make the coolest transition
possible between these ideas, right?
And I feel in some ways like you've done that in your music
(18:40):
as well. Yeah, You have to really trust
your process because like, like I said, like I've had this idea,
this concept, it's like I would,you know, I've been working on
this for a long time. Most of it was just like
figuring out my flow and how to actually truly execute the
vision I had in my head. That meant going back to school
(19:00):
and like learning how to use like, you know, audio and like
Daws and stuff. Like I had to like learn how to
do that because I was like, thisis what I need in order to, you
know, compose the sounds I have in my head and stuff.
And yeah, no, I, I made sure to do that because it was important
to me. Like this album was very
important to me. But like, throughout that
(19:22):
process, you know, I've had musicians just be like, well,
no, that's not how you write a song.
You're supposed to start with the drums or like, oh, there's
it needs to have a song structure.
There's no song structure. Like you have verse, chorus,
verse, chorus. And obviously maybe they've
never really like messed with progressive metal before.
So it like, you know, when you have a lot of different people
telling you what you're supposedto do, you really have to like
(19:45):
TuneIn to your intuition being like, I, I hear you.
I observe what you're saying butlike this is the process I want
to do because this is my my vision and you have to just go
for it. Yeah.
And actually, you know, we just published a very recent video
about metal songwriting, which Ithink it's very.
Relevant in this situation because it's like explores like
(20:06):
the the forms of what like mightbe typical in metal.
But some of the things that I like to point out when I talk
about these things is that theseare just things that can help
give you more clarity or guide you in your creation.
But they're not rules. You don't have to always do, you
know, first chorus, first chorus, bridge, chorus,
whatever, you know, that's a very, you know, typical type of
(20:29):
song form. And there's a formula and it
works in most cases. But you can absolutely explore
other opportunities in your songwriting to make something
that's different, make somethingthat feels refreshing, even
something that feels like it goes on a journey that's
actually, you know, if you want to go back again to these ideas
of classical composers like sonatas have, have you explored
(20:53):
writing a Sonata? Right.
You know, there's only three forms in the Sonata.
You got your your exposition, which is your development of
your idea. And then of course, the
development which takes it to a different realm.
And then you come back to your recap, your recapitulation, take
that idea, try to see if you canmake a song out of that, right.
These are just like old types offorms, but also there are very
(21:14):
new types of forms. And sometimes you're just very
free form. In many cases.
I feel like with film scoring, that's a very good example
because when you write to film, it's, it's all program music.
It's not absolute music, which you could define it as.
Absolute music is sort of like what's purely just coming from
(21:34):
your head. It doesn't have to be
necessarily related to anything,but program music means that
you're writing for something, right?
Like a visual or something of that sort.
But when you take that kind of form, I'm looking at it as
you're taking absolute music andyou have like this program
music, like this idea in your head and you sort of fit it
(21:56):
along with like this journey that you're creating.
I think that's really interesting.
I feel like we share a lot of those qualities when we write
our own music. So going around and writing
music in that way, I feel like those little ideas, those motifs
that we were talking about become even more important
(22:17):
because those motifs can represent, you know, events in
your story or if they open up, you know what it who is this
character maybe in the story or even just overarching themes
about maybe where they are in the story, right?
So I always look at writing songs as very much storytelling,
obviously, in a very musical sense.
But if you look at your song as writing a story, what makes a
(22:42):
good story, right? And you can sort of use that in
a way into making music and you do it very successfully.
I think it's very, very cool. And yeah, so when we come around
to now the idea of like creatingthis world, I know you want to
do this in Dolby Atmos and you want to go into immersive audio.
(23:06):
Have you always, like envisioneddoing this in Atmos or were was
it that kind of a later thing that revealed itself to you?
What did you think? Well, OK, so the Dolby Atmos
aspect of it, it was when I was in college, you know, I was
taking audio engineering music production.
(23:28):
I was very fortunate because my,my college, they, they just
installed like their Atmos system like.
Installed it by the way. He installed it.
Yeah. He used to be a tech at my
school back at back then can installed it.
But I was lucky that I was, you know, taking courses at that
(23:49):
time when when we had that, because when, you know, came to
the time where our teacher was giving us the demo of it, I was
just like, Oh my God, this is like what I need.
So it's like, throughout my journey in college, it was like
there was things that I needed to learn, you know, because you
need certain classes in order toget the degree, right?
(24:12):
And there was things that I was like, OK, this is awesome.
This is what I need. Or I can like, turn this into
this in order for me to, you know, implement it in my album.
My goal and my vision throughoutmy time in college was this
like, what do I need from my album, you know?
And yeah, with Atmos, I just remembered to standing in the
middle of the thing and just, I felt like I was levitating.
(24:34):
I was like, this is great. Like I was just, I got so hyped.
I loved it. I loved the idea of it.
I love the idea of like, you know, all the harmonies.
I always do a lot of harmony. It's like, oh, what if they just
circled around you? And I was like, yeah, that's
what it needs. Or else it just gets lost.
All those little details, those counterpoints.
So it's like songs that I stacked on top of each other
(24:55):
from the archive folder. There will be space for all of
it. And it could actually just be
like, you know, heard all at once.
And I got really excited. Those things that make you like
hyped like that, it's a good sign.
Listen to that feeling. But I wanted to also mention
that I'm very lucky that I got to go.
(25:18):
You know, that music theory was a requirement in order for me to
like graduate and get the degree.
I had to take music theory, and I've been writing songs all my
life without really knowing too much music theory.
But once I started taking that in school, I really got to
understand why my ideas were working and, you know,
(25:41):
understanding why song structureis the way it is, you know, And
in order for me to, you know, successfully compose progressive
metal where it has all these crazy changes, even like genre
changes sometimes, you know, just like crazy changes, I had
to understand why my song structure works so that I could
(26:02):
break it, you know, because the balance of song structure is
there for a reason. You know, you go through the the
changes when you listen to a song and it and it's pleasant,
you know, but with progressive metal, you are rearranging it,
you're adding 10 minutes to yourextending it.
You're you're just doing all types of different things that
is outside of the song structure, but the balance and
(26:24):
that like pleasant change changes that you go through when
you listen to a song that still needs to be there, you know,
when you're breaking the song structure.
Yeah. So it's good to understand what
what it is that you're breaking essentially.
Now what about sound design? Like sound design?
What about it? Well, you like incorporate a bit
(26:45):
of sound design in your music making you want to elaborate.
Like how do you go about doing that?
Like what do you experiment with?
OK, well there is a little bit of sound design so far and it's
just it in some of the songs it's kind of gives me like the
backrooms kind of vibes, like a old faded doorbell.
(27:09):
Like I'll hear it. Like there's like a sound sample
that I hear and as soon as I listen to it, I'm like, this is
definitely like a doorbell from like a 90s toy and it's faded
and it's like all like tinny. It sounds like it's playing on a
on a old vinyl. Like this is giving me some
eerie viby. Like I don't know shit, sorry.
(27:31):
Can I hear something? Yeah, it's just like eerie viby
shit. And I'm like, this needs to go
somewhere. I need to like put it like I
need to like comp it somehow. So that's how I've been with
sound design, but I want to add more of it once I have the, the
visuals complete. Yeah.
(27:51):
And my, my pianist, he's so goodat sound design.
So I'm going to like, work with him a little bit to like, get
that down. There's also like, you know,
like a heartbeat, you know, stuff like that to like kind of
bring you back to this is a story, this is a concept.
So what is your process with sound design?
Because I know that you've done sound design for movies and one
(28:12):
of the requirements, you know, of taking sound design seriously
where you're looking for jobs inthat field is, you know, have
like accumulating a library, youknow, so like walking around
with like a task Cam recorder. And if you like hear a crookedy
fence or like, you know, like a bird or something, like anything
(28:34):
that sounds usable or interesting, you want to record
it. And I know Ken has like a whole
library of things that he's accumulated over the years and
he uses it for, you know, sound design for movies and also for
your music, right. So tell me about your experience
using it in your in your album. Well, it was.
It was a lot of fun. I find that sound design in many
(28:57):
ways are like accents in, in, inmusic.
So when you're using sound design in the context of a
composition, you have to be veryaware of just like the Sonic
palette that it accumulates because it could be very like
broadband, for example, like a lot of frequencies, a lot of
this sort of stuff. So in the mix you might, you
(29:19):
might have to do a little bit more tailoring to that, but it's
very effective for making sure. For example, here's a very good
compositional example. And Mahler would do this.
You know, the old composer, he would have anvils like little
like legit blacksmith anvils with the hammer.
That's so. Gangster.
(29:39):
And he would use that for accents.
And a lot of composers would do this kind of stuff too, where
they would make it essentially sort of like a percussion.
Even the very famous, you know, again with Mahler, he had an
entire thing called the Mahler Hammer, which was like a big
wooden box and you would just basically smack it, go to town
(30:01):
at a certain point, which I findis like a really good starting
point for exploring sound designin your music.
So old composers have always been trying to figure out how to
create really interesting sounds.
And you know, you have, that's why I like in the percussion
world, there's so many differentlike types of, you know, gadgets
(30:24):
and stuff like that you can justplay with.
So in the modern sense, a lot ofthat to me feels like movie
sounds right. Things that you'd go and hear in
a theater. I love cinematic stuff.
I mean, I grew up with movies all my life.
So having a little bit of experience with doing some
(30:44):
movies helped to actually make my music sound more cinematic
that way. And I'm just a fan of the tone,
so. But yeah, we're gonna be
exploring more of these kinds ofthings with your project too,
which I think is gonna be super fun.
What is the? It's called Mickey Mouse thing,
right? I don't know, It's stuck to me
because it's Mickey Mouse and that's adorable.
But being. Like Tom and Jerry or.
(31:05):
Well, Mickey Mouse saying that'ssomething that I see me doing
like my process would sound designed for my album.
Because right now I am in the process of getting my visuals
done. I want to have visuals on on for
my live performances, like the way that like Opeth or Dream
Theater, they have like those like visuals on stage, right?
(31:25):
It's like beautiful artwork that's like just changing and
vibe. So I want to add sound design
that goes along with that. And yeah, I think the concept of
that is Mickey mousing when you're going along with a visual
and then and working in that order.
Is that correct? Is that they say it right?
OK. Yeah, yeah.
And you know, that also begs a question for, you know, during
(31:47):
the mixing process, like are we going to mix, you know, with the
visual in front of us? Like that could be a very cool
way to create immersive content.So it's like almost like we're
mixing a movie. These are just like some things
that with, you know, the power of immersive or the power of
just your creativity. Like you could don't have to do
everything the same way how it'salways been done.
(32:08):
You can always find new ways to do it.
We, like I said earlier in our conversation, we have, you know,
a new world of just creative, you know, intent out there now
because of the technologies thatwe have, the more knowledgeable
that you become, the more you'reable to essentially create
without resistance, right? And that's one of the biggest
takeaways that I feel like beingon your own as a composer and a
(32:31):
producer can really unlock for you.
But you have to be patient with the process.
It's not you. Have to be patient with the
process. And The thing is, I feel like
it's a lot more it's, it's easy to be overwhelmed.
There's like a lot of things that can delay your process.
And I think one of them is maybelike social media, right?
So feeling like you need to keepup with social media in order to
(32:54):
be a musician. This is true.
And just keep in mind that, you know, the musicians that you see
on social media, they have theirproject done already and now
they're at that point where theycan just share, share, share.
And if you're not at that point yet, if you're still working on
your music or you know, like if it's not quite finished yet,
(33:14):
that's the first step. Step number one is having a high
quality product. Thank you.
You know, totally. It's the most fun part too.
So just really enjoy that process, the intuitive process
that the music is still yours atthat point, it's still your
project, it's still yours, it's still like your baby.
Once that's like done, then you give it away.
(33:35):
You know, that's when you post share and you'll know what it
looks like, you'll know how to market it because it'll be done.
You'll understand the vibe, the,you know, if you do some live
shows first, you'll know the kind of people that really like,
you know, resonate with it. So that was just something I
wanted to add because social media is just like you're seeing
people that are at that point where they're done with their
(33:57):
project and now they're showing it to the world.
And you'll get there too, when that time comes, and enjoy that
that the moment where the the album is still yours and only
yours. Right.
And yeah, that's a such a great point.
And you guys really shouldn't feel like if you don't have
(34:17):
anything out there that you haveto rush to make it out there,
right? Like while things are still
relatively, you know, yours and unknown.
That's a beautiful part of the process.
Don't negate the fact that people necessarily know who you
are, because that means that youdon't have that kind of pressure
(34:38):
to create something that maybe you're not that into, right?
Because you want to make sure that what you create is
authentically yours. It's the thing that you've
always been dreaming of making. And I'll say it again, we live
in that time, right? You can really focus on what it
is that you want to create. So create your own sound.
All the things that we talked about here on Middle Mastermind,
(34:59):
it's, it's all relative to the individual independent
songwriter. And that's one of the things
that we really highlight here atMetal Mastermind.
This is to explore like opening that creativity for you so that
you have tools at your disposal that you know how to use, but
you're unrestricted in the way that you want to use them.
(35:23):
And so that process is a beautiful process.
Sometimes it feels frustrating when you know you're working on
things for a long time. You're like, is this ever going
to be a thing? But know that that's a natural
part of the process. Like you're never going to not
have that feeling. So just give yourself some
grace. And sometimes, you know, we need
to hear it ourselves when we talk to each other too.
It's just like, you know, we'll have our feelings of doubt or
(35:44):
whatever, but Ellie and I, what makes us such a great couple is
that we really just work on making sure that each other is,
you know, content and knowing that they have support that
there's not ever going to be a point where they're alone in
that process. And we we help each other out.
So sometimes if you're. Yeah, we get in our own way
(36:06):
sometimes and yeah, it's, we don't realize it, you know, like
we just we're hard on ourselves or whatever.
Or we say, like, oh, we can't dothis or this is not going to
work. Or like maybe it's just not good
enough. It's just like, you know, you
getting in your own way. And that's like something that I
do enjoy people that are taking our courses.
(36:27):
Like when I have students reach out and say the struggles that
they're having, it usually has to do with it just kind of like
inner work, like just being like, oh, I just can't get
through this part. Like, you know, and I'm just
having someone that's been thereand understands and just the
(36:48):
this effect that you're worried about something like that, like,
you know, any delays in your process and the fact that you
reached out for help at all. Like it really says a lot.
And like I'm always going to be the first person to be like you
are exactly where you need to be.
And you know, let's try this, this and that and let's touch
(37:09):
base after a couple weeks to seewhere you're at.
After you do that, you know, it's just you just got to keep
going. You always got to revisit that
To Do List. Yeah, one of the most beautiful
things you actually said to me was something very similar to
that. What did I say?
Which was that you know where you are is exactly where you
need to be. Because what you're creating
(37:30):
isn't isn't necessarily up to you.
It's the universe in a sense, making it ready for it to be
accepted. Yeah, I do.
I do get very, you know, like spiritual in my process and.
No sharing that was very. Do yeah, I know I, I, I, I do
believe in when I say, when I dosay, like the universe has its
(37:51):
plan. And I do want to put this into
terms that everyone can understand because maybe some of
our listeners don't like tap into that in the same way.
But it all does boil down to to the same thing where it's like
when you're writing a song, whenyou're writing your own original
stuff from your own creative brain, Like you have that moment
where you're like, this is right, and this is how it was
(38:11):
always supposed to be. So it's as if the song is
already written and you're just trying to uncover it.
Because when you know it's right, you know it's right
because the song is already, like, created.
You already have the vision for it.
Yeah. You're just picking away at the
rock to to find the sculpture underneath.
So that's a good mentality And you know, whatever higher power
(38:32):
you believe in, whether the universe already has its plan
for you or, or God or what have you like, it's just a very
insightful way to go about it. And I think it leads to a much
more enjoyable experience. Well, one one part of that that
I took as a big take away was that my music was essentially
another entity. It wasn't basically just me.
(38:54):
It was separate from me in a waythat allowed me to uncover this
in a natural way. So I really did appreciate when
you said that to me. I felt like it was very, very
helpful for me to put things in perspective.
I've also always felt in my heart that what I do is very
(39:14):
much like I am a vessel. I'm just, you know, essentially
going to the muses and and the hearing from them what I'm
supposed to be putting down ontotangible form.
And that allowed me to at least visualize a little bit more in
(39:36):
AI guess in a very, yes, spiritual way, but also in a
just, I guess a little bit more of a detached way where I didn't
have to feel like it was all me.It wasn't my ego.
It was its own entity, like I mentioned, you know, So that's
very powerful. And I think the way how you, you
(39:59):
know, give yourself grace for your music is to allow yourself
to also believe that your music is a living thing.
It has its ups and downs. It will reveal itself in time to
you. You have to get to know it
right? So the more time you invest in
your music and the way that you create your music, treat it like
a relationship with your music that you want to foster
(40:23):
healthily, and you are not putting the kind of pressure on
your music or yourself to make it a certain way.
When you start forcing things, then things don't turn out the
way that you want them to. Totally.
If you start forcing a person, they will retaliate or whatever.
Yeah, retaliate. I don't know.
That's the best word to use. They will attack.
But yeah, no, it's like it is like a really relationship where
(40:45):
it's like, you know, you find areas that need improvement and
you want to put in the work and the detail.
You don't want to just like shipsomething out that's like, it's
fine, it's good enough. You do that, that's fine.
Maybe it's a great song. But like when, when you really
want to get it, like quote UN quote, perfect, you know, the
areas that need improvement, youknow, schedule that time to just
(41:08):
like focus on it and put in thatlittle bit of work and you know,
find that balance to to, you know, make that song, that
entity what it always was supposed to be.
I do want to like also talk about like refining your
process. Do you want to add something
before I like head over there. I think refining your process
(41:32):
just takes time. It really is about, in a sense,
trimming some of the fat of whatdoesn't work and discovering
what works for you and what keeps you motivated to keep
going. Yes.
And I do want, yeah, what works for you is important because,
you know, Ken and I, we relate on a lot of levels with our
(41:53):
music process. It's how we, you know, our
friendship began, you know what I mean?
Our relationship began. It's like what we have in common
to the core, but that's our process.
You know, we are very like intuitive with the process.
And you know, we see our our music as its own like entity.
But like what's so fun about music and what's so creative
(42:17):
about it is that everyone has like a different way of, you
know, making music. So it's like if you have like a
band that likes to just drink beers and like jam, you know,
that's great. You know, it works for you.
So it's like figuring out what works for you and then refining
the process. You know, how do you get
(42:38):
productive when that's your process, when you want to just
like jam and drink some beers and like see what happens?
Record it. That's all you got to do.
Make sure you set up that recording.
So it's like, all right, this works.
We love that, but let's make sure that we record it so that,
you know, we can like maybe chopit up like in logic or in Pro
(42:59):
Tools and find the parts that welike and, and work off of that.
And that's how you can use the process you enjoy feels organic
to you, but also be like productive with it.
So whatever your process is, some people just need to be like
super sad to write music. You know what I mean?
How, how do you refine that process, you know, journaling,
getting, getting yourself like in that headspace to write music
(43:22):
that could be like a way so thatyou can be productive with the
process that works best for you and.
We're as it's all fine finding abalance, yeah, you know, if
something's not working, don't let it trail on, you know, for
unnecessary amounts of time. Otherwise, those problems just
build and then working through what feels natural versus what
(43:45):
helps to push you just a little bit more, right?
Because we don't want to just settle.
We don't want to just, you know,get into a position where we're
just like, kind of like, all right, whatever works, it's
fine. But it's like, no, if you want
like to get like really great, great stuff, then you have to
have just a little bit of that, just pushing into a little bit
of uncomfortable space for you to help make something new come
(44:11):
along that you're supposed to receive in that moment, right?
So a balance is super key. And so for those of you who are
interested in, you know, learning more about this kind of
stuff, right, Metal Mastermind, we have resources for you.
We also have a community. If you don't know, we have a
community on Discord. It's about 600 people on Discord
(44:31):
right now. We just, I'd love that.
I love seeing how people just communicate in our community to
each other. They're very supportive.
People share their ideas all thetime and they get feedback.
And in our platform, Mental Mastermind, we've been teaching
since 2020, as officially 2021 when it came to the business.
But the entire journey of Metal Mastermind was all about
(44:56):
empowering independent musicians.
So if you're going to go and youknow, start to explore some of
these aspects of yourself, you know, we can help you.
Metal Mastermind is here to do that.
And so check it out, see what fits for you.
We do have songwriting, music theory, we have studio design,
(45:17):
we have vocals, we have bass guitar.
I mean, like we really got pretty much everything you need
and we're still adding more. So more to come this year.
We're, we're currently working on some really exciting stuff,
including also like Adobe Atmos course that I'm, I'm putting
together. We're working on some more
(45:40):
production stuff with the studio.
It's very exciting times here atMetal Masterminds.
So just stay tuned. And of course, you know, as you
go through your journey, don't don't forget, you know, create
your own sound. That is always the thing that we
want to leave you with because we truly believe that while you
go through this process of beinga musician, don't forget that
(46:00):
it's your sound that you are after.
So always create your own sound.
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