July 21, 2025 • 34 mins
Ken Candelas and Serge Orloff open the conversation with Audiomovers' profound advancement of network audio software and how it can change the face of audio education all over the world.
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✅ Follow on Instagram @metal.mastermind and @audiomovers
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Winner will be announced this Friday!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Before we get started on this next episode of Metal
Mastermind, I just want to be transparent about this episode's
audio quality and video quality.Unfortunately, on my end, it
seems that there was a network issue and the stream quality
suffered for it, so I didn't want to let this episode go to
waste. It was such a great
(00:20):
conversation, but just be prepared that you'll hear some
audio restoration tactics on thedialogue of my voice or of the
guest voice in order to compensate for for this error.
So my. Apologies, but I hope.
You enjoy this next episode of Metal Mastermind.
(00:51):
Hi everyone and welcome to another episode of Metal
Mastermind. I am your host, Ken Candelas,
and I am with another wonderful friend, someone who I
professionally admire. This is a really, really
exciting episode for me. I want to introduce you guys to
Serge Orla, who is part of AudioMovers, and Audio Movers is such
(01:15):
an amazing tool that I've been using and have been expanding
upon a lot of things in my own line of work, especially for my
educational work. So this is particularly a very,
very gratifying episode for me. So thank you, Serge.
Welcome to Metal Mastermind. How are you doing?
(01:37):
Thank you for inviting me, I'm excited.
You know, can I ask, you know, Dirge, where, where are you
from? Around in the world.
Yeah, so I I live in Canada, on Vancouver Island in British
Columbia, but the company is in England.
It's Auk Company. Yes, this is an.
(02:00):
Agent. It's amazing because it's like
we live in now a day and age where we're post the pandemic
and working remotely and workingonline has sort of become a new
standard. So it's really interesting
because the scenario of audio movers actually kind of really
heavily was influenced by a lot of that stuff.
(02:21):
And we'll get into that conversation.
So Serge, again, thanks for coming on the show.
Let's let's get started. I I want to ask first for our
audience, can you explain what is audio movers like?
What happened? How did it start?
What was the inception like? Well, audio movers, if my memory
(02:44):
doesn't betray me started in 2018 and it came out of like I,
I guess like any good our frustration, I think it's very
common. So the initial frustration was
that, I mean, you couldn't get our decent quality audio from a
(03:06):
DAW remotely and any solution that maybe existed back then
wasn't just good enough. It it I mean, it was kind of
terrible. So that was the initial
frustration. And this is how eager our head
of product development and one of the Co founder of audio
movers came up with this idea like we need, we need to solve
(03:28):
this issue. And yeah, it's proving to be
very good solution. Yes, amazingly useful.
Now we live in a world where people are taking stems
remotely, even pull on multitrack and mixing them
(03:49):
remotely and even doing mixed competitions remotely live.
It's it's such an amazing thing that's that's happening right
now and audio movers just keeps impressing me.
It just pushes the boundaries even more further.
So let's talk a little bit about, you know, the, the
(04:10):
pandemic and how that changed things because before I I know
audio movers began before the pandemic.
So I'd like to know how did the trajectory change?
Yeah, that's correct. So before the pandemic, we
actually we, we already had likea loyal base of users.
It wasn't big, but it was like aloyal base.
(04:35):
But when pandemic started and wehad lockdowns everywhere and not
just like like enterprise level,but also in education, I'm
pretty sure you're familiar withthat.
People started looking for solution, especially like being
able to stream like high qualityaudio, which quality loss and
(04:57):
people looking for solution alsolike, you know, to be able
broadcast audio. So it's not just between you and
I. For example, in the teaching
scenario, you want to, if you have a class of 20 people, 20
students, you want to broadcast to all 20.
So a lot of businesses, a lot ofwe're looking for solutions plus
(05:18):
what private, you know, individuals even like for
collaborating with each other. And the people started looking
online and discovered audio movies that's already existed.
So the solution was there. So that's how it started.
And pandemic gave us a boost, that's for sure.
(05:39):
And this probably what brought us to the acquisition by by
Universal Music Group. I think that was one of the
reasons because they sold the value this Yeah, I mentioned we
were acquired by Universal MusicGroup.
Universal Music Group owns Admiral Studios.
Now we are part of Abbey Road Studios.
(06:01):
You can call us like a tech branch and it's a proud, you
know, it's a very proud label name to wear, but it's it's
really cool. It's really cool because we have
we have, you know, access to thebest gear in the world, to the
best minds in the world. It's really, really cool.
And we have now at Abbey Road Studios, we now have people who
(06:24):
help us with business side and now we have people who can focus
on product develop, you know, itbecame scalable.
So instead of like a few guys running like a little startup.
So now we have a a nice, you know, mommy, who takes care of
us. That's amazing.
No, that's amazing. No, that's Abbey Road is such an
(06:47):
important part of the world. Actually, it's just so historic
of a of a it's a landmark. It really can't be topped in so
many ways. It it has too much history.
It has too much value. So a name like Abbey Road behind
something like audio movies means a lot.
So there's there's no faking it here, guys.
(07:08):
This is this is the real deal. So the best are using this and
now you have access to technology with high quality
audio just like the professionals do.
And here we are. This is 2025.
Yeah, more and more coming. More exciting stuff is coming.
(07:30):
And that's a really interesting like part of the upbringing of
of audio movers. I find that it was kind of in
the right place at the right time with the right mode of
technology because audio movers is not like other streaming
types of audio router, because this is a different type of
(07:52):
technology. I if you don't mind, would you,
would you elaborate a little bitmore?
What? Why should I think about audio
movers instead of something else?
Yeah. Before I do that, I just want to
say audience, we were not behindpandemic, OK?
We didn't create it to sell audio movers.
(08:17):
That's classic. That is hilarious.
So, yeah, so back in the days, Idon't know if people, you know,
back in the days when people used to like even do some like
pirate thing, you know, downloadmusic online, share files online
was AP2P. So there was a solution in
(08:40):
place, especially P2P connectionwhen people could use like a
software like BitTorrent and youknow, exchange files.
So the technology existed, but it's not something we wanted to
use and it was quite limited because I mean, I don't want to
become like going through like too many technique else.
But the idea is that P2P connection use what's called PDP
(09:01):
protocol. It's not that accurate,
especially back then. And and also it's very limited.
You cannot do like it's, it's quite limited.
So we came up with a different concept, different Internet
Protocol. It took a good, good amount of
(09:24):
effort because it was a new technology, but but today we
have it just it's a different system because instead of a
creating P2P connection, when you're logging into listen to
you immediately connected to alllike a coordinator, which will
assign one of our servers to youclosest to you.
(09:44):
So the distance doesn't really play huge role.
Yes, a little bit, but it's not like with the P2P connection and
because we use our own servers and thanks to this technology
you can broadcast right now we allow broadcasting up to 150
(10:04):
listeners. But in reality, we have some
businesses that ask for more andwe can, we can make 1000, we can
make 2000 it just but like on official level on the website
when people you know, subscribe,it's up to 150.
I see. Wow, that is amazing.
Well, cuz that gives you guys a lot of control over the
technology, which I think is very important.
(10:26):
We've been doing a lot of centralized service for a good
long time. I mean, every social media
network ever is using their own centralized servers for certain
things, right? So this makes a ton of sense to
create a dedicated space for connections to happen all over
the world. And as you guys are expanding,
you know you have an opportunityto put more relay in areas where
(10:51):
it can help and. If The thing is, go.
Ahead. So the beautiful thing is that
if we're talking about listen tospecifically not products, the
beautiful thing is that for example, the latency on our
services super minimal, like it's very, very extremely fast.
(11:12):
But we allow users look listen to plugin has its own settings
for like selecting audio, audio format and latency settings.
We allow users to manage those to compensate for their like
Internet connection. If someone has very like high
bandwidth connection and very stable Internet with low ping,
(11:35):
these people can stream like multi channel PCM 32 bit no
problem with like minimal latency like point like I don't
know, 50 milliseconds, 100 milliseconds.
But if some people have their Internet connection, maybe not
so good, maybe it's unstable. They have a jumping pink time O
(11:56):
we in the listen to settings, they can change the latency
settings to compensate for that.O if you have like a lot of all
your dropouts, just increase latency.
Dropouts are gone. Wow.
Let's let's go into some of the,the product that you guys offer
because listen to is just one product, Audio Mover has a suite
(12:17):
of products. So I can can you expand a little
bit about like I'm assuming withlisten to your first product and
then it kind of became more thanthat or how did that go?
And can you explain some of the product?
Yeah, So a lot of people in the say audio moves, they actually
they think of listen to and and many I'm not actually aware of
(12:40):
other products, you know, line up.
We have oh, listen to the remotestreaming solution.
It's a it's a multi channel. The previous versions of listen
to allowed up to 16 channel and one plug in or stand alone
instance. And if you run listen to in a
DAW, you could have like multiple plug insurance and each
(13:03):
one of those could care channelsToday, if you go on our website,
there's a public beta. Maybe when you post cast podcast
is out, it's going to be alreadystable, you know, public
release. But there's a new version of
listen to that has 128 channels,It's own mixer Talkback you aim
(13:26):
it like has so many cool features like ABCD comparison
video files sync like so, But this is a remote streaming
solution. So listen to then we have
Omnibus, which is I think it's our flagship.
It's massive. And I'm not actually, I'm not
(13:48):
scared to call it the most flexible and advanced software
based audio routing solution. It's a really good virtual
patch, but extremely flexible. And it also works in local
network. So you can, if you have a studio
with multiple rooms or you have a classroom, you have a main,
you know, classes, they can all communicate with each other
(14:12):
using local network. Either you use NDI protocol or
ABB. So that's omnibus.
So you have like massive audio routing solution plus local
networking. And then you have minibus.
It's like so we have omnibus andthey're little baby minibus.
So minibus is also local streaming solution, but it's a
(14:34):
plug in. It's a multi channel plug in.
So if we have two computers running, I don't need to send
you a file. If I want you to record
something remotely or get my feed, I will run bus plug in on
my end Minibus transmitter. You're going to run minibus
receiver in your end. We communicate using local
(14:54):
network. Then we have binary render for
Apple Music, which was a very needed solution because a lot of
people, they do immersive audio,they do like Atmos mixing and
there was no way view it what it's going to sound like, you
know, with Airpods like so unless maybe you run like Logic
(15:16):
Pro because this something was controlled by Apple.
So there's a vinyl renderer solution for Apple Music as a
plugin and as a stand alone. And then we also have inject.
Inject is the audio routing plugin because usually, well
every dot usually is limited to 1 device.
You can use only one device. But let's say if you connect the
(15:37):
hardware since like with USB connection or like you have any,
you have other audio devices connected to your computer or
maybe again, you could be using like a virtual audio device.
So with inject, I can put injectplugin on an on an audio channel
(15:58):
and I can grab any audio input, be it virtual hardware, scenes,
whatever. And I will bring it into a DAW
without messing up with DAW. And I can also take my DAW
output and also use this inject plugin to just output it to any
output available. Like it's so much flexibility,
(16:20):
so. That's incredible awesome guys.
I mean, like just as a little reminder, and I've made videos
on audio movers before, but I'm a big fan of Omnibus and I'm
using it all day every day in mystudio.
So this, I can definitely say that I'm very pleased with what
I've been working with Omnibus and yeah, Inject, I have a
(16:44):
little bit of fun with that sometimes.
Honestly, I've pranked people sometimes when it came to
Inject. It was kind of a fun way of
having somebody. Listen more things.
And then yes, my gosh, I I have actually interlaced into a new
feed into someone else's line and then played some ghostly
(17:08):
sounds and they thought their computer was haunted.
And it was, it was just really hilarious how we did it, man.
When it came to working in Atmos, it was absolutely
imperative. Using the audio mover system, I
was able to leverage secondary computer to actually do all the
processing for Atmos while I hadmy main computer focus only on
(17:31):
the mic. And so I alleviated a lot of
processing power that way. And in other situations where
Atmos has its own sort of computer system, you would have
need a lot more expensive hardware to do that.
You'd have to do some complex interlacing between the devices
and connections and audio moversmade it a lot simpler and more
(17:54):
really practical for the everyday user that wants to get
into something more serious. So I really do recommend
checking it out guys. This suite of really software
that audio movers creates it, itit's really, really powerful.
So now here's the thing, right? Because when we get into using
(18:14):
audio movers, there's like multiple wave, multiple
scenarios. Somebody might say, OK, well,
why would I want to use this versus that?
Some things that I can think offthe top of my head are
definitely in in situations likeeducation where I of course work
in and displaying, you know, either a mix to everybody to
listen on their own headphones so that everybody gets the right
(18:37):
listening experience, or even doing other comparisons.
What I've used before is actually comparing two different
devices to see converter quality.
And before then it was very hardto do that because you have to
always route signals through different types of hardware to
make it happen. But with, you know, one source,
(18:58):
I just pointed to two different devices right there and I can do
headphone shootouts. I can.
I do converter shootouts, preampshootouts.
I do it a lot with my students. It's such a fun time and they
love seeing stuff like that. And this kind of routing
preserve all the quality that's necessary for monitoring that
kind of really clinical situation.
(19:20):
So rest assured that what the quality is there.
So you know, here's something I'd like to explore with regards
to audio movers and it's software.
Is it CPU intensive? Does it have a lot of That's
fantastic. It's so it's so gentle on CPU
(19:44):
and RAM, like any product we have, any piece of software, it
is not CPU or RAM hungry. It's just, yeah, it's good.
So I wouldn't worry about that part.
So really like any computer can run audio movers.
I've actually. Well, if you use pension 3.
(20:07):
Well. You know, the 90s?
I doubt. Funny enough, search, it's
interesting you we talk about older computers because actually
audio movers is one of the solutions to something that I
have a rig that's from 2014 thatI repurposed for, you know, a
(20:29):
live show rig. So I'm like, OK, I don't need
this in my studio anymore, so let's use this for something
else. And lo and behold, I was able to
actually get audio movers to do certain types of routing between
the console and the interface into logic to do playback. 2014
is OK Think about like 1998. Oh well, yeah, I mean, if we
(20:56):
gotta go that far for even us tosay that it can't do that, I
think we're in the clear. So this is great cuz so.
The limitation with Yeah, sorry.That's OK, go ahead.
What are the limitations of audience with them?
I was going to say that the limitation is in most cases it's
(21:18):
just the operating system. So when people go to download
sections and let's say they wantto use omnibus or listen to,
yes, the new listen to require certain OS, but you can still
like use listen to. You can download one of the
legacy versions if you have, I don't know if you run like Mac
(21:40):
OS 10.12, right, You can still use listen to just go to the
legacy, to the legacy section and you can still use listen to
it. Yeah, it's not going to be the
latest and greatest, but still same technology, different
interface, a little bit different features, but still
the same technology, same quality.
So I think the limitation is more like, you know.
(22:07):
Yeah, with an operating system change that, that always kind of
puts a lot of things out of whack.
I mean, how many times has, you know, anybody here listening to
this podcast been like, is it time to update the OS?
Is it going to destroy everything?
Like what's going to happen? You know, so an audio mover to
actually been kind of really good at, you know, being stable
(22:30):
with, with, with OS, which I'm, I'm happy to have and say
because. You won't believe I have
sometimes as people you know emailing me and asking well, I
run Pro Tools 9 Pro Tools 10 canI use listen to him like you
know what it just maybe it's like too much.
(22:52):
It's well, yeah. So I mean at least like at least
version 12, I think you. Know yes.
So now have you heard of other scenarios that you think audio
movers makes a lot of sense in? What about?
What about? You know your experience in in
(23:14):
this case? OK, now I'm not going to shut
up, so get ready. OK, so first of all, I I do want
to make like a statement that listen to like all audio movers
products, but especially listen to an omnibus like a widespread
(23:34):
globe standard when it comes to many industries.
And we're talking about like game development, we're talking
about post production, obviouslylike live recording, live mixing
as well. Like actually, you can mix live
concerts or like church worship sessions.
(23:59):
Like it's and like omnibus as well.
Like I don't want to name names of the companies, but like one
of the biggest game developers, they use omnibus like heavily
omnibus and listen to. So that's number one.
Number two, I want to say that the way our product is designed,
because I have a lot of people asking, can I use listen to for
(24:21):
this? Can I use omnibus for this?
And in 99% of all cases, my answer is yes, because without
products, you just need to understand the principles, how
it works. For example, listen to you have
transmitter and receiver and those two they if let's say we
(24:43):
limit ourselves to to the plugin.
So those two can carry up to 16 channels.
So now you can just become creative how you route your
audio, how you do this, how you do that.
But you have transmitter and receiver capable of streaming
panels, you know, in the perfectaudio quality.
(25:03):
And once you understand the principle, people become
creative. Sometimes I hear solutions that
we never even. Thought of.
Because people just being creative with a plug in.
So same applies to every other product we carry.
People just become creative withwhat they can do with it.
But people, for example, they sample, you know, things with
inject bus. So obviously listen to it as a
(25:30):
remote streaming solutions being, and I already mentioned
being useful live mixing big session recordings.
You can be in LA and you can record remotely orchestra in
Abbey Road. It's in London, right?
And you can do preview mixes. Preview you can.
(25:52):
And even the most obvious is just a collaboration.
If you and I will work together,I'm like, oh, listen, can listen
to this beat. And you're like, now listen to
this guitar. Right.
You know, it's a lot of, it's a lot of fun.
It's a collaborative tool. And then omnibus I like, I don't
(26:17):
have multiple computers at home.It's just my little MacBook.
But even even myself, I use omnibus, I cheat with omnibus.
I would open my door and I will output to omnibus.
And then no matter what I connect like you focus, right,
multi device. I put my, you know, I plug in my
(26:40):
external headphones, so I put myAirpods.
As soon as I connect those devices, that will pop up in
omnibus and I will simply route it.
I don't have to go to my dog, change the settings, reload the
session. I don't need to go through that.
It always points to omnibus and then all I have to do is just
change the output in omnibus. But it's very capable to people
(27:04):
use it for sampling people if people use it for complex
routings. Oh, another cool example in
teaching scenarios. So imagine you teaching like a
mixing class, live mixing and you streaming.
You stream audio to let's say IBRd. and then from there you
(27:31):
stream to your students so your students can hear mixes on using
the best equipment in the world.Like, it's just so much
flexibility, right? Incredible.
The amount of flexibility with what you're telling us is just
insane. And it's like you can really
(27:52):
think of like almost the craziest thing that you wanna
make happen. And audio movers is kind of like
a way to figure out how possibleit could or could not be.
You know, it's, it's, it's really interesting because
actually one of the things that really surprised me was when I
had my interfaces, there's over the years I've collected, I've
(28:17):
upgraded, but sometimes I haven't thrown older things
away. I've integrated them with my
newer thing. And as I was interfacing between
them, I was like, wait a minute,I don't have to use this for
that anymore. I can just have it point to
audio movers and it was able to allow so much more maximum
(28:38):
efficiency like of the unit. And I was just bored.
I was like, this is crazy. I literally spent, I'm not lying
like 72 hours of just like goingmad of like rerouting everything
in my studio centered around it because I was like, this is this
is crazy. Really cool, really useful.
(28:59):
And when it came to especially the binaural renderer software
that you were mentioning for Apple Music, I knew that
conjunctive with virtuoso and the Dolby Binaural and in
comparison, incredible stuff. Man, I, I got to, I got to say,
I really applaud the guy for. It and it's pretty cool it has
also like hat tracking and everything that you need, you
(29:21):
know, for that technology. And now the cool scenario is
actually in, in the teaching settings, because I me with
audio movers, I run educational program and like AB to B
programs, but I used to do tech support and many other things
with audio movers, but there areother people who take care of
(29:41):
that. So, and I talk a lot with
educators. And another really good example
is when you have a classroom like a 4050 students and a
teacher runs omnibus, you know, on, on their station.
And it's not like in the big classroom, you don't have a
perfect audio And even like, OK,you have students sitting in the
(30:04):
front row. Maybe they'll get the best cool
to sound, but what about the rest?
So what they do, students will run minibus on their computers,
the headphones, they run minibuson their computers and teacher
will use omnibus, open NDI transmitter, stream it locally
so students can get perfect audio in their classes.
(30:28):
Like as I mentioned, like list, like our products is more about
principles. Once you understand the
principles, you can be really creative.
And all I can say for your audience, if you need a solution
for remote audio, local audio streaming and audio routing,
look no further. It's all there like it's just
(30:51):
it's all in there. More about your workflow so, but
yeah, it's just those three things are covered, plus by null
renderer. Yeah, I'm so glad you pointed
out workflow because that is what makes this unique to you
though, as you know someone who,and I'm talking you to the
(31:12):
audience here now, as someone who's literally here to learn
about newer technologies and, you know, concepts and
applications towards your goal as a musician, as an engineer,
songwriter, music business, whatever it is that you're
looking after, right? This is something that can be a
part of your journey, right, As you use certain tools.
(31:37):
These are the things that were the boundaries of the
state-of-the-art. So check it out.
Audio movers is amazing. It unlocks really the ultimate
workflow for you guys. It has definitely for me.
And I'm a I'm a proud, proud user of this.
So this is a real honor surge. Thank you so much.
Do you, do you have any maybe closing thoughts about, you know
(32:02):
what somebody who's listening tothe podcast maybe they can walk
away with when it comes to audiomovers or your products or
anything of the sort? Yeah.
So what I want to say if sometimes people, they will
download software that will try something because they have a
certain scenario in their mind and it doesn't work.
(32:23):
If you have some, if you have a scenario in your head and you
and you cannot figure out, just just e-mail us because there are
ways to do things and. You.
Ask and we will help. That's something I want to
mention. And also maybe for your audience
(32:44):
who are students, who are students, I actually want to say
that students can get 70% off ofany Audio Moves product to go on
our website and upload their student ID.
We want to really help students.So.
Amazing, that's. Thank you so much, Serge.
(33:05):
That's, that's a really, really good, good thing to say because
we're working closely with you guys when it comes to doing
this. So people, if you guys are a
part of the inner circle, you dohave access to educational
discounts. Make sure you check that out on
metalmastermind.com For more information.
And of course, as you guys know here on Metal Mastermind, we're
here to provide resources for the everyday musician to want to
(33:28):
be a professional. So this is without further ado.
I mean, audio movers is one of the great with technologies.
I think of 2025 and moving forward.
I can't wait to see more about this stuff.
I know I'm definitely gonna be seeing you guys in London real
soon in August. I'm super excited for that at
Abbey Road. I'll be there.
(33:48):
I'll. Be there.
Yeah. So this is gonna be a really,
really cool thing for you guys to see.
I will make sure to get some footage for that, you guys.
And one more thing, guys, if you're interested in winning a
free license of Listen to Pro for One Whole Year Audio movers
by Serge. Thank you, Serge, for providing
(34:09):
this giveaway. We're gonna give it to one
person, 1 lucky member who makesa comment below.
So go ahead, share this tag somebody, and let us know how
excited you are about audio movers and listen to and all the
things that we just talked aboutand you'll be put in a draw or
(34:31):
one lucky license winner. OK?
So thank you very much guys. And until then, create your own.
Before we get started on this next episode of Metal
Mastermind, I just want to be transparent about this episode's
audio quality and video quality.Unfortunately, on my end, it
seems that there was a network issue and the stream quality
suffered for it, so I didn't want to let this episode go to
waste. It was such a great
(00:20):
conversation, but just be prepared that you'll hear some
audio restoration tactics on thedialogue of my voice or of the
guest voice in order to compensate for for this error.
So my. Apologies, but I hope.
You enjoy this next episode of Metal Mastermind.
(00:51):
Hi everyone and welcome to another episode of Metal
Mastermind. I am your host, Ken Candelas,
and I am with another wonderful friend, someone who I
professionally admire. This is a really, really
exciting episode for me. I want to introduce you guys to
Serge Orla, who is part of AudioMovers, and Audio Movers is such
(01:15):
an amazing tool that I've been using and have been expanding
upon a lot of things in my own line of work, especially for my
educational work. So this is particularly a very,
very gratifying episode for me. So thank you, Serge.
Welcome to Metal Mastermind. How are you doing?
(01:37):
Thank you for inviting me, I'm excited.
You know, can I ask, you know, Dirge, where, where are you
from? Around in the world.
Yeah, so I I live in Canada, on Vancouver Island in British
Columbia, but the company is in England.
It's Auk Company. Yes, this is an.
(02:00):
Agent. It's amazing because it's like
we live in now a day and age where we're post the pandemic
and working remotely and workingonline has sort of become a new
standard. So it's really interesting
because the scenario of audio movers actually kind of really
heavily was influenced by a lot of that stuff.
(02:21):
And we'll get into that conversation.
So Serge, again, thanks for coming on the show.
Let's let's get started. I I want to ask first for our
audience, can you explain what is audio movers like?
What happened? How did it start?
What was the inception like? Well, audio movers, if my memory
(02:44):
doesn't betray me started in 2018 and it came out of like I,
I guess like any good our frustration, I think it's very
common. So the initial frustration was
that, I mean, you couldn't get our decent quality audio from a
(03:06):
DAW remotely and any solution that maybe existed back then
wasn't just good enough. It it I mean, it was kind of
terrible. So that was the initial
frustration. And this is how eager our head
of product development and one of the Co founder of audio
movers came up with this idea like we need, we need to solve
(03:28):
this issue. And yeah, it's proving to be
very good solution. Yes, amazingly useful.
Now we live in a world where people are taking stems
remotely, even pull on multitrack and mixing them
(03:49):
remotely and even doing mixed competitions remotely live.
It's it's such an amazing thing that's that's happening right
now and audio movers just keeps impressing me.
It just pushes the boundaries even more further.
So let's talk a little bit about, you know, the, the
(04:10):
pandemic and how that changed things because before I I know
audio movers began before the pandemic.
So I'd like to know how did the trajectory change?
Yeah, that's correct. So before the pandemic, we
actually we, we already had likea loyal base of users.
It wasn't big, but it was like aloyal base.
(04:35):
But when pandemic started and wehad lockdowns everywhere and not
just like like enterprise level,but also in education, I'm
pretty sure you're familiar withthat.
People started looking for solution, especially like being
able to stream like high qualityaudio, which quality loss and
(04:57):
people looking for solution alsolike, you know, to be able
broadcast audio. So it's not just between you and
I. For example, in the teaching
scenario, you want to, if you have a class of 20 people, 20
students, you want to broadcast to all 20.
So a lot of businesses, a lot ofwe're looking for solutions plus
(05:18):
what private, you know, individuals even like for
collaborating with each other. And the people started looking
online and discovered audio movies that's already existed.
So the solution was there. So that's how it started.
And pandemic gave us a boost, that's for sure.
(05:39):
And this probably what brought us to the acquisition by by
Universal Music Group. I think that was one of the
reasons because they sold the value this Yeah, I mentioned we
were acquired by Universal MusicGroup.
Universal Music Group owns Admiral Studios.
Now we are part of Abbey Road Studios.
(06:01):
You can call us like a tech branch and it's a proud, you
know, it's a very proud label name to wear, but it's it's
really cool. It's really cool because we have
we have, you know, access to thebest gear in the world, to the
best minds in the world. It's really, really cool.
And we have now at Abbey Road Studios, we now have people who
(06:24):
help us with business side and now we have people who can focus
on product develop, you know, itbecame scalable.
So instead of like a few guys running like a little startup.
So now we have a a nice, you know, mommy, who takes care of
us. That's amazing.
No, that's amazing. No, that's Abbey Road is such an
(06:47):
important part of the world. Actually, it's just so historic
of a of a it's a landmark. It really can't be topped in so
many ways. It it has too much history.
It has too much value. So a name like Abbey Road behind
something like audio movies means a lot.
So there's there's no faking it here, guys.
(07:08):
This is this is the real deal. So the best are using this and
now you have access to technology with high quality
audio just like the professionals do.
And here we are. This is 2025.
Yeah, more and more coming. More exciting stuff is coming.
(07:30):
And that's a really interesting like part of the upbringing of
of audio movers. I find that it was kind of in
the right place at the right time with the right mode of
technology because audio movers is not like other streaming
types of audio router, because this is a different type of
(07:52):
technology. I if you don't mind, would you,
would you elaborate a little bitmore?
What? Why should I think about audio
movers instead of something else?
Yeah. Before I do that, I just want to
say audience, we were not behindpandemic, OK?
We didn't create it to sell audio movers.
(08:17):
That's classic. That is hilarious.
So, yeah, so back in the days, Idon't know if people, you know,
back in the days when people used to like even do some like
pirate thing, you know, downloadmusic online, share files online
was AP2P. So there was a solution in
(08:40):
place, especially P2P connectionwhen people could use like a
software like BitTorrent and youknow, exchange files.
So the technology existed, but it's not something we wanted to
use and it was quite limited because I mean, I don't want to
become like going through like too many technique else.
But the idea is that P2P connection use what's called PDP
(09:01):
protocol. It's not that accurate,
especially back then. And and also it's very limited.
You cannot do like it's, it's quite limited.
So we came up with a different concept, different Internet
Protocol. It took a good, good amount of
(09:24):
effort because it was a new technology, but but today we
have it just it's a different system because instead of a
creating P2P connection, when you're logging into listen to
you immediately connected to alllike a coordinator, which will
assign one of our servers to youclosest to you.
(09:44):
So the distance doesn't really play huge role.
Yes, a little bit, but it's not like with the P2P connection and
because we use our own servers and thanks to this technology
you can broadcast right now we allow broadcasting up to 150
(10:04):
listeners. But in reality, we have some
businesses that ask for more andwe can, we can make 1000, we can
make 2000 it just but like on official level on the website
when people you know, subscribe,it's up to 150.
I see. Wow, that is amazing.
Well, cuz that gives you guys a lot of control over the
technology, which I think is very important.
(10:26):
We've been doing a lot of centralized service for a good
long time. I mean, every social media
network ever is using their own centralized servers for certain
things, right? So this makes a ton of sense to
create a dedicated space for connections to happen all over
the world. And as you guys are expanding,
you know you have an opportunityto put more relay in areas where
(10:51):
it can help and. If The thing is, go.
Ahead. So the beautiful thing is that
if we're talking about listen tospecifically not products, the
beautiful thing is that for example, the latency on our
services super minimal, like it's very, very extremely fast.
(11:12):
But we allow users look listen to plugin has its own settings
for like selecting audio, audio format and latency settings.
We allow users to manage those to compensate for their like
Internet connection. If someone has very like high
bandwidth connection and very stable Internet with low ping,
(11:35):
these people can stream like multi channel PCM 32 bit no
problem with like minimal latency like point like I don't
know, 50 milliseconds, 100 milliseconds.
But if some people have their Internet connection, maybe not
so good, maybe it's unstable. They have a jumping pink time O
(11:56):
we in the listen to settings, they can change the latency
settings to compensate for that.O if you have like a lot of all
your dropouts, just increase latency.
Dropouts are gone. Wow.
Let's let's go into some of the,the product that you guys offer
because listen to is just one product, Audio Mover has a suite
(12:17):
of products. So I can can you expand a little
bit about like I'm assuming withlisten to your first product and
then it kind of became more thanthat or how did that go?
And can you explain some of the product?
Yeah, So a lot of people in the say audio moves, they actually
they think of listen to and and many I'm not actually aware of
(12:40):
other products, you know, line up.
We have oh, listen to the remotestreaming solution.
It's a it's a multi channel. The previous versions of listen
to allowed up to 16 channel and one plug in or stand alone
instance. And if you run listen to in a
DAW, you could have like multiple plug insurance and each
(13:03):
one of those could care channelsToday, if you go on our website,
there's a public beta. Maybe when you post cast podcast
is out, it's going to be alreadystable, you know, public
release. But there's a new version of
listen to that has 128 channels,It's own mixer Talkback you aim
(13:26):
it like has so many cool features like ABCD comparison
video files sync like so, But this is a remote streaming
solution. So listen to then we have
Omnibus, which is I think it's our flagship.
It's massive. And I'm not actually, I'm not
(13:48):
scared to call it the most flexible and advanced software
based audio routing solution. It's a really good virtual
patch, but extremely flexible. And it also works in local
network. So you can, if you have a studio
with multiple rooms or you have a classroom, you have a main,
you know, classes, they can all communicate with each other
(14:12):
using local network. Either you use NDI protocol or
ABB. So that's omnibus.
So you have like massive audio routing solution plus local
networking. And then you have minibus.
It's like so we have omnibus andthey're little baby minibus.
So minibus is also local streaming solution, but it's a
(14:34):
plug in. It's a multi channel plug in.
So if we have two computers running, I don't need to send
you a file. If I want you to record
something remotely or get my feed, I will run bus plug in on
my end Minibus transmitter. You're going to run minibus
receiver in your end. We communicate using local
(14:54):
network. Then we have binary render for
Apple Music, which was a very needed solution because a lot of
people, they do immersive audio,they do like Atmos mixing and
there was no way view it what it's going to sound like, you
know, with Airpods like so unless maybe you run like Logic
(15:16):
Pro because this something was controlled by Apple.
So there's a vinyl renderer solution for Apple Music as a
plugin and as a stand alone. And then we also have inject.
Inject is the audio routing plugin because usually, well
every dot usually is limited to 1 device.
You can use only one device. But let's say if you connect the
(15:37):
hardware since like with USB connection or like you have any,
you have other audio devices connected to your computer or
maybe again, you could be using like a virtual audio device.
So with inject, I can put injectplugin on an on an audio channel
(15:58):
and I can grab any audio input, be it virtual hardware, scenes,
whatever. And I will bring it into a DAW
without messing up with DAW. And I can also take my DAW
output and also use this inject plugin to just output it to any
output available. Like it's so much flexibility,
(16:20):
so. That's incredible awesome guys.
I mean, like just as a little reminder, and I've made videos
on audio movers before, but I'm a big fan of Omnibus and I'm
using it all day every day in mystudio.
So this, I can definitely say that I'm very pleased with what
I've been working with Omnibus and yeah, Inject, I have a
(16:44):
little bit of fun with that sometimes.
Honestly, I've pranked people sometimes when it came to
Inject. It was kind of a fun way of
having somebody. Listen more things.
And then yes, my gosh, I I have actually interlaced into a new
feed into someone else's line and then played some ghostly
(17:08):
sounds and they thought their computer was haunted.
And it was, it was just really hilarious how we did it, man.
When it came to working in Atmos, it was absolutely
imperative. Using the audio mover system, I
was able to leverage secondary computer to actually do all the
processing for Atmos while I hadmy main computer focus only on
(17:31):
the mic. And so I alleviated a lot of
processing power that way. And in other situations where
Atmos has its own sort of computer system, you would have
need a lot more expensive hardware to do that.
You'd have to do some complex interlacing between the devices
and connections and audio moversmade it a lot simpler and more
(17:54):
really practical for the everyday user that wants to get
into something more serious. So I really do recommend
checking it out guys. This suite of really software
that audio movers creates it, itit's really, really powerful.
So now here's the thing, right? Because when we get into using
(18:14):
audio movers, there's like multiple wave, multiple
scenarios. Somebody might say, OK, well,
why would I want to use this versus that?
Some things that I can think offthe top of my head are
definitely in in situations likeeducation where I of course work
in and displaying, you know, either a mix to everybody to
listen on their own headphones so that everybody gets the right
(18:37):
listening experience, or even doing other comparisons.
What I've used before is actually comparing two different
devices to see converter quality.
And before then it was very hardto do that because you have to
always route signals through different types of hardware to
make it happen. But with, you know, one source,
(18:58):
I just pointed to two different devices right there and I can do
headphone shootouts. I can.
I do converter shootouts, preampshootouts.
I do it a lot with my students. It's such a fun time and they
love seeing stuff like that. And this kind of routing
preserve all the quality that's necessary for monitoring that
kind of really clinical situation.
(19:20):
So rest assured that what the quality is there.
So you know, here's something I'd like to explore with regards
to audio movers and it's software.
Is it CPU intensive? Does it have a lot of That's
fantastic. It's so it's so gentle on CPU
(19:44):
and RAM, like any product we have, any piece of software, it
is not CPU or RAM hungry. It's just, yeah, it's good.
So I wouldn't worry about that part.
So really like any computer can run audio movers.
I've actually. Well, if you use pension 3.
(20:07):
Well. You know, the 90s?
I doubt. Funny enough, search, it's
interesting you we talk about older computers because actually
audio movers is one of the solutions to something that I
have a rig that's from 2014 thatI repurposed for, you know, a
(20:29):
live show rig. So I'm like, OK, I don't need
this in my studio anymore, so let's use this for something
else. And lo and behold, I was able to
actually get audio movers to do certain types of routing between
the console and the interface into logic to do playback. 2014
is OK Think about like 1998. Oh well, yeah, I mean, if we
(20:56):
gotta go that far for even us tosay that it can't do that, I
think we're in the clear. So this is great cuz so.
The limitation with Yeah, sorry.That's OK, go ahead.
What are the limitations of audience with them?
I was going to say that the limitation is in most cases it's
(21:18):
just the operating system. So when people go to download
sections and let's say they wantto use omnibus or listen to,
yes, the new listen to require certain OS, but you can still
like use listen to. You can download one of the
legacy versions if you have, I don't know if you run like Mac
(21:40):
OS 10.12, right, You can still use listen to just go to the
legacy, to the legacy section and you can still use listen to
it. Yeah, it's not going to be the
latest and greatest, but still same technology, different
interface, a little bit different features, but still
the same technology, same quality.
So I think the limitation is more like, you know.
(22:07):
Yeah, with an operating system change that, that always kind of
puts a lot of things out of whack.
I mean, how many times has, you know, anybody here listening to
this podcast been like, is it time to update the OS?
Is it going to destroy everything?
Like what's going to happen? You know, so an audio mover to
actually been kind of really good at, you know, being stable
(22:30):
with, with, with OS, which I'm, I'm happy to have and say
because. You won't believe I have
sometimes as people you know emailing me and asking well, I
run Pro Tools 9 Pro Tools 10 canI use listen to him like you
know what it just maybe it's like too much.
(22:52):
It's well, yeah. So I mean at least like at least
version 12, I think you. Know yes.
So now have you heard of other scenarios that you think audio
movers makes a lot of sense in? What about?
What about? You know your experience in in
(23:14):
this case? OK, now I'm not going to shut
up, so get ready. OK, so first of all, I I do want
to make like a statement that listen to like all audio movers
products, but especially listen to an omnibus like a widespread
(23:34):
globe standard when it comes to many industries.
And we're talking about like game development, we're talking
about post production, obviouslylike live recording, live mixing
as well. Like actually, you can mix live
concerts or like church worship sessions.
(23:59):
Like it's and like omnibus as well.
Like I don't want to name names of the companies, but like one
of the biggest game developers, they use omnibus like heavily
omnibus and listen to. So that's number one.
Number two, I want to say that the way our product is designed,
because I have a lot of people asking, can I use listen to for
(24:21):
this? Can I use omnibus for this?
And in 99% of all cases, my answer is yes, because without
products, you just need to understand the principles, how
it works. For example, listen to you have
transmitter and receiver and those two they if let's say we
(24:43):
limit ourselves to to the plugin.
So those two can carry up to 16 channels.
So now you can just become creative how you route your
audio, how you do this, how you do that.
But you have transmitter and receiver capable of streaming
panels, you know, in the perfectaudio quality.
(25:03):
And once you understand the principle, people become
creative. Sometimes I hear solutions that
we never even. Thought of.
Because people just being creative with a plug in.
So same applies to every other product we carry.
People just become creative withwhat they can do with it.
But people, for example, they sample, you know, things with
inject bus. So obviously listen to it as a
(25:30):
remote streaming solutions being, and I already mentioned
being useful live mixing big session recordings.
You can be in LA and you can record remotely orchestra in
Abbey Road. It's in London, right?
And you can do preview mixes. Preview you can.
(25:52):
And even the most obvious is just a collaboration.
If you and I will work together,I'm like, oh, listen, can listen
to this beat. And you're like, now listen to
this guitar. Right.
You know, it's a lot of, it's a lot of fun.
It's a collaborative tool. And then omnibus I like, I don't
(26:17):
have multiple computers at home.It's just my little MacBook.
But even even myself, I use omnibus, I cheat with omnibus.
I would open my door and I will output to omnibus.
And then no matter what I connect like you focus, right,
multi device. I put my, you know, I plug in my
(26:40):
external headphones, so I put myAirpods.
As soon as I connect those devices, that will pop up in
omnibus and I will simply route it.
I don't have to go to my dog, change the settings, reload the
session. I don't need to go through that.
It always points to omnibus and then all I have to do is just
change the output in omnibus. But it's very capable to people
(27:04):
use it for sampling people if people use it for complex
routings. Oh, another cool example in
teaching scenarios. So imagine you teaching like a
mixing class, live mixing and you streaming.
You stream audio to let's say IBRd. and then from there you
(27:31):
stream to your students so your students can hear mixes on using
the best equipment in the world.Like, it's just so much
flexibility, right? Incredible.
The amount of flexibility with what you're telling us is just
insane. And it's like you can really
(27:52):
think of like almost the craziest thing that you wanna
make happen. And audio movers is kind of like
a way to figure out how possibleit could or could not be.
You know, it's, it's, it's really interesting because
actually one of the things that really surprised me was when I
had my interfaces, there's over the years I've collected, I've
(28:17):
upgraded, but sometimes I haven't thrown older things
away. I've integrated them with my
newer thing. And as I was interfacing between
them, I was like, wait a minute,I don't have to use this for
that anymore. I can just have it point to
audio movers and it was able to allow so much more maximum
(28:38):
efficiency like of the unit. And I was just bored.
I was like, this is crazy. I literally spent, I'm not lying
like 72 hours of just like goingmad of like rerouting everything
in my studio centered around it because I was like, this is this
is crazy. Really cool, really useful.
(28:59):
And when it came to especially the binaural renderer software
that you were mentioning for Apple Music, I knew that
conjunctive with virtuoso and the Dolby Binaural and in
comparison, incredible stuff. Man, I, I got to, I got to say,
I really applaud the guy for. It and it's pretty cool it has
also like hat tracking and everything that you need, you
(29:21):
know, for that technology. And now the cool scenario is
actually in, in the teaching settings, because I me with
audio movers, I run educational program and like AB to B
programs, but I used to do tech support and many other things
with audio movers, but there areother people who take care of
(29:41):
that. So, and I talk a lot with
educators. And another really good example
is when you have a classroom like a 4050 students and a
teacher runs omnibus, you know, on, on their station.
And it's not like in the big classroom, you don't have a
perfect audio And even like, OK,you have students sitting in the
(30:04):
front row. Maybe they'll get the best cool
to sound, but what about the rest?
So what they do, students will run minibus on their computers,
the headphones, they run minibuson their computers and teacher
will use omnibus, open NDI transmitter, stream it locally
so students can get perfect audio in their classes.
(30:28):
Like as I mentioned, like list, like our products is more about
principles. Once you understand the
principles, you can be really creative.
And all I can say for your audience, if you need a solution
for remote audio, local audio streaming and audio routing,
look no further. It's all there like it's just
(30:51):
it's all in there. More about your workflow so, but
yeah, it's just those three things are covered, plus by null
renderer. Yeah, I'm so glad you pointed
out workflow because that is what makes this unique to you
though, as you know someone who,and I'm talking you to the
(31:12):
audience here now, as someone who's literally here to learn
about newer technologies and, you know, concepts and
applications towards your goal as a musician, as an engineer,
songwriter, music business, whatever it is that you're
looking after, right? This is something that can be a
part of your journey, right, As you use certain tools.
(31:37):
These are the things that were the boundaries of the
state-of-the-art. So check it out.
Audio movers is amazing. It unlocks really the ultimate
workflow for you guys. It has definitely for me.
And I'm a I'm a proud, proud user of this.
So this is a real honor surge. Thank you so much.
Do you, do you have any maybe closing thoughts about, you know
(32:02):
what somebody who's listening tothe podcast maybe they can walk
away with when it comes to audiomovers or your products or
anything of the sort? Yeah.
So what I want to say if sometimes people, they will
download software that will try something because they have a
certain scenario in their mind and it doesn't work.
(32:23):
If you have some, if you have a scenario in your head and you
and you cannot figure out, just just e-mail us because there are
ways to do things and. You.
Ask and we will help. That's something I want to
mention. And also maybe for your audience
(32:44):
who are students, who are students, I actually want to say
that students can get 70% off ofany Audio Moves product to go on
our website and upload their student ID.
We want to really help students.So.
Amazing, that's. Thank you so much, Serge.
(33:05):
That's, that's a really, really good, good thing to say because
we're working closely with you guys when it comes to doing
this. So people, if you guys are a
part of the inner circle, you dohave access to educational
discounts. Make sure you check that out on
metalmastermind.com For more information.
And of course, as you guys know here on Metal Mastermind, we're
here to provide resources for the everyday musician to want to
(33:28):
be a professional. So this is without further ado.
I mean, audio movers is one of the great with technologies.
I think of 2025 and moving forward.
I can't wait to see more about this stuff.
I know I'm definitely gonna be seeing you guys in London real
soon in August. I'm super excited for that at
Abbey Road. I'll be there.
(33:48):
I'll. Be there.
Yeah. So this is gonna be a really,
really cool thing for you guys to see.
I will make sure to get some footage for that, you guys.
And one more thing, guys, if you're interested in winning a
free license of Listen to Pro for One Whole Year Audio movers
by Serge. Thank you, Serge, for providing
(34:09):
this giveaway. We're gonna give it to one
person, 1 lucky member who makesa comment below.
So go ahead, share this tag somebody, and let us know how
excited you are about audio movers and listen to and all the
things that we just talked aboutand you'll be put in a draw or
(34:31):
one lucky license winner. OK?
So thank you very much guys. And until then, create your own.
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