Ken Candelas and guest Andy Gesner discuss how the music video industry has progressed over time and what is important for an artist to bear in mind whilst going through their entrepreneurial metamorphosis phase. Artists must endure much more than they take on from their initial desire to perform and play music. How should an artist navigate through these treacherous waters?
Check out @hipvideopromo for more information on Andy Gesner and his services.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:14):
Hi, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Metal
Mastermind. And today I'm with a new guest.
His name is Andy Gessner. Welcome, Andy.
I hope everything that happened before this conversation, it
works out for you. I know you had a bit of a crazy
afternoon. Thank you so much for coming on
(00:35):
the podcast today. I think what we're going to do
is we're going to have a really good chat, especially about
music business. So Andy, welcome.
And why don't we just start off with a little introduction, Who
you are, what you do, and whatnot?
Well, Ken, thank you for having me on the program.
I am very thrilled to be your guest and grateful for the
(01:01):
opportunity. And like most of the people who
tune into your transmissions, I live.
Breathe, sweat, bleed Rock'n'roll.
I played my first Rock'n'roll show in 1980.
Nice. Long I love that time ago, but I
(01:25):
got the bug back on February 9th, 1964 when my older sister
came running into my bedroom on a Sunday night, grabbed me by
the arm and said come on, come on, come on, we're going to
watch Beatles. Amazing.
Oh my gosh. On TV now, of course, I thought
(01:46):
it was going to be some kind of insect show, maybe some kind of
horror flick. I wasn't sure what was going on.
But we gathered around the smallscreened black and white TV, my
sister on one side, my brother on the other.
And Ed Sullivan, He twirled his arm around and said The Beatles
(02:08):
and my sister started screaming like a banshee and spinning
around like a whirling dervish. I looked over at my brother and
his jaw hit the floor. But the most vivid memory Ken
was turning around, looking at my parents.
(02:30):
Not happy, Ken. Wow.
How could they be allowing theirchildren 62 years ago to be
viewing such rubbish? What a cacophony.
What are these long haired British kids doing to our
(02:52):
children? So pretty much from that time it
was all music listening to my older brother and sisters 45 RPM
records. And then of course the 70s
ushered in what we called the High Fi System.
And of course I was a big fan ofthe 8 tracks.
(03:12):
Because when you're a teenager, the last thing you want to be
doing during an intermittent encounter with a cute young 8th
grader is to tell her that you got to get up to turn the record
over. Oh my gosh, definitely dating
during that time was different. Yeah, absolutely so.
(03:37):
Oh my God. I went out because I wanted to
be a part of my clique of friends.
They were all playing guitars and doing all that fun stuff.
And I figured, you know, nobody's got a bass guitar.
Of course, I didn't know anything about playing an
instrument. So I went to the local music
(03:59):
store and I asked the man behindthe counter or left-handed bass
because I right left and I bat left and I throw left.
And he started laughing at me and I got very anxious like
maybe this isn't the place. And then he said who do you
think you are, Paul McCartney orsomething?
(04:21):
And of course I'm just a 17 yearold kid.
I don't know what the heck he's talking about.
But then he just kind of pushed me.
Sad. I'm just busting you man.
All we've got are right-handed bass guitars.
I didn't even have to think more.
In two seconds I just saw it will show me right-handed bass
guitars. And that was 1979.
(04:44):
I haven't looked back. Amazing.
So you've been, you've been in this industry for quite a while
and I've taken a look at your company hit video promo, which
is, you know, it's quite the extensive discography that you
got there. And it's got a lot of really
interesting things that I think for artists in the modern day
(05:08):
are kind of asking questions about.
And I feel the passion. I feel the passion, Andy.
And, you know, like, I always talk to, like, I'm as an
educator, I always talk to my students about recording
technologies and how The Beatleswere a fundamental shift in
recording technology for pop music.
And it was a really important time.
(05:29):
And it's so cool to also be ableto hear it from somebody who
lived during that time and what it really felt like to see that
sensation come on the screen. So in modern day, obviously,
right, The Ed Sullivan Show is avery long time ago.
But with that experience, I think it makes quite a lot of
(05:51):
sense why your industry and why you particularly are involved in
the way you are in your industry.
So talk about video and how video for music really came to
be important in what you do, andwhat is music video promotion
(06:14):
like? Can you start with that kind of
information? I'd love to know.
Sure. Well, it was 42 years ago and we
were all just starting to get cable TVI didn't have cable TV,
but I had friends who did and they said there's this new
channel, man, it's like, and we would all go over to my friend's
(06:40):
house and watch MTV. Now, we had seen some music
videos up to that point, like the legendary Queen Bohemian
Rhapsody video, and we knew thatthere were certain other artists
that were creating visual content.
But Ken, the 80s were all about MTV health, guys.
(07:05):
They weren't saying about it. They wanted their MTV.
And of course, I was still playing in a rock'n'roll band
and trying to fight the good fight.
But in the year 2000, at the ageof 39, after 20 years of trying
to get past that pain point, which I can fully appreciate and
(07:28):
empathize with the people who TuneIn and who needs your sage
wisdom, Ken. How do I get past the pain
point? And it's like someone asked
Beverly Sills, how do I get to Carnegie Hall and she just shook
her head and said practice. So it was it was a necessity is
(08:00):
the mother of all inventions. And in October of 2000 I had a
friend because I didn't know what I was going to do.
It was either reinvent myself orI don't know, go sell appliances
at Best Buy. I don't know what I would have
done. But he said, Andy, I know what
(08:25):
you could do. You could be a music video
promoter. I said, well, that's the
stupidest, most Jackass idea I have.
And he stopped me, says Andy, you know this new thing called
the World Wide Web? I said, yeah, yeah, I know.
(08:45):
It's like, you know, you know when the modem was Ding, Ding,
Ding, right? He says, trust me, it's only
going to be a matter of time before the entire human family
will be able to watch music videos on their computer.
(09:09):
Imagine that. I said, well, how can you be so
sure that what you're telling meis the truth?
And he smiled. He said, yeah, I am pretty well
ensconced in this technological world, and I can assure you it's
(09:30):
only going to be a matter of time before the entire human
family will be able to watch music videos on their computer.
Now, we weren't even thinking about the iPad.
We weren't thinking about the phone.
We weren't thinking about the watch.
We just thought, OK, if this is the case, let me look into it.
(09:55):
Now, 24 years ago, there are a lot of people out there helping
artists and bands get their music videos seen or exposed or
programmed on various televisionchannels.
I jumped right in. I figured, you know, I'll call
(10:19):
this was back when you had basically called people and I
said, hi, I'm Andy. I'm from hip video promo and
just let you know that I am a newcomer to this arena, but sure
would be swell to get the opportunity to work with you.
And the first client was Virgin records.
(10:41):
They brought me Amen, The Price of Reality, which you can still
find on YouTube. And what were the chances that
my first music video ever promoted would be a Hard Rock
music video? It was.
(11:02):
It was very successful and we continued to rock'n'roll with
Virgin for about a year. I'll never forget in 2002, they
called and said, look, we have this band, but it's fronted by
an actor. I'm like, oh, oh, man.
Because we all know what happenswhen an actor fronts a rock
(11:24):
band. It's can anyone say Dog Star?
I mean, not going to have anything against Keanu Reeves,
but yeah, he should probably stick to acting.
So they said they're going to beat the Mercury Lounge in New
York City on August 15th. You really should go to the
(11:45):
show. I'm like, I'm down.
I'm down. And they're like, well, I'm
like, well, what's the name of the band?
They said, well, the band's nameis 30 Seconds To Mars.
And once I got over how at the time ridiculous the name of the
band sounded, I'm like, oh, and I'll go to the show.
Who's the actor? They said it's this guy named
(12:05):
Jared Leto. Yep, I didn't know Jared Leto
from Jared from Subway. I'm like, I don't know.
I don't know this guy. I'm not going to feel any kind
of intimidated, intimidation or trepidation.
And there he was. He came out of the big ass bus.
(12:25):
Can you imagine? Big ass buck bus, you know,
parked on Houston St. New York City.
And we, he introduces me, introduces me to his brother and
he was very kind, very happy to see me and wanted to know what
(12:46):
I'd do for him. And I told him we'd be promoting
that brand new Capricorn, a brand new name video for him.
And then he went into how much time and effort went into that
epic music video. I think he did some kind of deal
with the director where, hey, you make this epic music video
(13:06):
for me and I promise I'll be in one of your upcoming films.
I don't know what went down, butthere they were, 30 Seconds To
Mars Mercury Lounge, August 15th, 2002.
After the show, I was very complimentary.
They said, yeah, you got to comedown to Philly tomorrow night
(13:26):
and see us perform there. I'm like, all right, I live in
New Jersey. I could probably do that.
Where are y'all playing? And they said we're playing at
the Kyber Pass. I'm thinking mine because I
played there numerous times. But Ken, it is nothing more than
(13:47):
a shot and deer joint hole in the wall right there on South
Street. And hey, from small acorns, big
O trees grow. So it was exciting, Needless to
say. But the break, big break came in
February of 2003 when my pleasantly persistence,
(14:09):
persistence, pleasantly persistent.
That's what I like to call myself.
I got the call from Lost Highwayand I said, I know you've been
reaching out a lot. We really haven't had anything.
But now we're really up against it because we have this new
video, Andy, we don't know what to do with it.
(14:30):
So I asked to the artist was there's a bit of a silence.
I said, well, it's Johnny Cat. And my jaw hit the floor.
I'm like, you mean the iconic man in black, most legendary
American in the annals? And then I said, yeah, but
(14:55):
here's the issue, Andy. In the music video, it looks
like he's about ready to die. Oh my God.
And then they said, and what's more, it's a Nine Inch Nails
(15:16):
cover. So I'm trying to imagine in my
head Ken what hell like. What's going on here?
What is going on here? So they said, let me pop AVHS in
the mail to you FedEx and you and your team will have it
tomorrow morning. Yes, that's how we did it 22
(15:38):
years ago. It wasn't as simple, just OK,
let me e-mail you the link. Yes, overnight a VHS tape.
So we all gathered around the VCR.
We watched that Johnny Cash Hurtvideo and I looked around at my
I was not the only one in the room with a little bit of a tear
(16:02):
in in my eye because there he was and showing such
vulnerability. And it's true, he didn't look
too well, but there he was. And it was kind of a story
chronicling his incredible 5 year decade journey, creating
(16:25):
music from the masses and becoming a legend all across the
world. Well, of course we said, yeah,
we're going to promote that video if you'll have us.
And they did. And the rest of this history,
because now I could go back to Sub Pop.
I could go back to Poly vinyl. I could call John.
It fueled by Ramen, the wonderful people at touch and
(16:47):
go. Hello Vice, right?
Vice brought us Death from Above1969.
All the great labels of the day were coming our way.
And that's right around the timewe got to work with Corn and
Mötley Crüe and we promoted the 1st 85 Finger Death Punch
(17:10):
videos. It sure was a good time in the
world. I mean, now in, in the case of
let's for our viewers, because you, you, you know, you, you're,
you're claiming all this tremendous experience and that's
amazing. What then makes a great music
(17:30):
video that moves like what are some of those points that you
have experienced over your career that said, well, there's
a reason why this did well and it's because of XYZ.
What are there some factors thatyou've seen in recurring music
videos that portray those traits?
(17:53):
If we all listen to music to feel a way we'd rather be
feeling, then I think you could be argued we watch a music video
to feel a way we'd rather be feeling.
And a lot of times the music video, and I think it's still
(18:16):
true to this day. It truly is the cornerstone of
any musical creative's identity.So I tell every new client that
reaches out to us, you don't geta second chance to make a first
impression. And it's true with anything you
(18:38):
do in your life journey, you want that kind of video that
when you are done watching it, you have no other visceral urge
than to watch it again. And I don't have the secret
(18:59):
sauce on how to make that particular dish, but, and you've
seen it too. You know it when you come across
it. Absolutely.
It's in a sense in some ways similar to songwriting.
(19:20):
You know, it's very closely tiedcreative endeavor that drives a
narrative in many cases. Sometimes I think, you know,
when things are a little more abstract or guerrilla style,
there's a there's a different intention there.
But I think it definitely comes down to the intention of what's
being portrayed, how that's being conveyed, the message and
(19:45):
what sticks at the end with the person that then yeah, in in a
case of for sure, it could entice one to listen again with
the visual because it brings upon a specific experience,
right. I think all of those are really,
really. Important things with music
video creation, but as now I'm sure you're aware of, but for
(20:11):
musicians and artists, a lot of the focus becomes deeply
embedded with creation, but not necessarily the communication of
that creation. It's very common that my
students will say, well, I do this sort of thing and I don't
(20:32):
know, but it's my own thing and it's like no one else's.
And I and I tell them, well, there's this thing called the
entire history of recorded music.
And there is some place that somebody who sees your thing can
probably associate with something in recorded music.
So what is that, you know, and these are questions that require
(20:56):
a lot of active critical thinking.
Do you find that musicians have to be more critical more than
ever because of this entire Internet, be your own boss kind
of fiasco that's happening nowadays?
What are your thoughts on that? Well, I'm thinking of all the
(21:17):
people in the music marketing world who have never picked up
an instrument, never been on stage, never tried to book a
show, never broke down on Interstate 95 or had to sleep on
strange people's floors. And I always wonder, wow, do you
(21:46):
really want someone who hasn't? Oh yeah, you might audit
wholesale university or you might have had a stint on the
college program concert board. I get it.
Yes, all good. But I think all of us types that
(22:08):
feel that need to create and to then record and then, God
willing, perform. And it's like the back of the
shampoo bottle. Once you've done that, what do
you do? You do it, you rinse and you
(22:30):
repeat and you just keep the cycle going for as long as you
possibly can. Ken, have you ever asked your
students this question? Do you want to bug your students
out? Ask them this question.
Say hey sport, what is your motivation?
(22:59):
Absolutely. Bugs them out.
Yeah. What do you mean my motivation?
It's to get chicks. What do you What?
Come on. You know what my motivation is?
It's to get chicks. I'm like, no, no, I hear you.
I hear you. But what is your real
motivation? And then they really have to
(23:19):
start thinking about and they'llsay things like, well, I really
want to create something that's going to make the world and my
friends and fans of this musicalgenre feel less alone.
I'm like, all right, that's goodthat now you're now, now you're
(23:41):
cooking. This is good.
I smell what you're cooking here.
This is great because as much asthe video could be wonderfully
crafted and you've got fabulous choreography and you got the top
notch makeup person and the director of photography is well
(24:01):
known and worked with big names,but you and I both know.
I mean, you can poke at it and you can rub it, but when it
comes to the song, you cannot Polish a purr.
Right. And you know, the other half to
that quote is, but you can put the glitter on it, right?
(24:27):
No, that's totally true. You're and and, and, and going
back to it's kind of like askingjust what is your why?
Like, why do you do this in the 1st place?
That has to be the spirit that'ssort of imbued in the creation
that you're you're offering for someone to to view on the other
side, right? That has to be felt and that
(24:50):
cannot be just told. So I the intention and, and you
know, again, this is a also comes back to like a even an
audio engineering aspect of it is like, why are you even
tackling that sound the way you're tackling it, right?
What is the reason behind that? You know, your motivation, your
(25:10):
intention to all of this. It's a, it's a greater cause to
seeing the bigger picture, whichis great.
I love that you're going that large and I feel that at a
fundamental level, almost in a sense, like if you understand
maybe even certain things about how the the universe works or
(25:31):
like how physics works, it makesother more complex things easier
to understand and try to allow it to naturally, quote UN quote
unfold because of that understanding.
But music video promotion marketing, I mean, you know, and
(25:51):
this is this is a question that I definitely get all the time,
but you know, I want to hear from you like the difference
between these departments like promo marketing, you know,
advertising. A lot of students always ask me
these questions. But how would you define the
roles of all of these departments?
And how many hats must a musician in a modern day maybe
(26:15):
have to wear? Yeah, what a good question.
I would say when it comes to those three you mention, same
corporation, different division,it's all promotion, it's all
marketing, it's all advertising.And it used to be you could
(26:40):
pretty much blend in to the background and let the music do
the talking. How many times have you heard
this, Ken? I really don't want to do the
online stuff. I just want people to like me
for my music, and you look at them and you know that it's
never going to happen for this person.
(27:02):
He's going to. You've got to put your
inhibitions on the back burner now if you're going to be a
public figure. You can't be like the Wizard of
Oz and I am the mighty guitar player.
No, you got to absolutely realize that if people like your
music, they're going to want to,they're going to want to like
(27:25):
you. So don't disappoint them.
Don't be a Jackass. Don't be an arrogant one.
Don't be unappreciative. Don't be oozing hubris from
every orifice. For instance, if people come and
(27:45):
are checking you out online, I mean, you're the host of your
musical party. You got to greet them, take
their coat, showing them where the food is.
You got to show them the warm and fuzzy.
Because we know it's the Super fan.
And we've all been super fans ofsome kind of musical entity.
(28:06):
And the Super fans do all the work for you because they'll
tell everybody they know that you got to check out keeping Tom
or Corn or whoever. The idea being is that you've
got to create something that is memorable.
You're making a video. Don't start with, don't try to
(28:29):
be cutesy. You know, you got to get, it's
like Tom Petty said, don't bore us.
Get to the chorus. Well, people have an attention
span nowadays less than a gold thing.
So you really have to be cognizant that you're going to
get this one shot with people. So you got to make it count.
(28:53):
And if when you ask yourself what is your motivation?
And you say to yourself, well, Iwant to be rich and I want to be
a rock star so I don't have to work at the shopping mall.
Yeah. Your motivation is to change
people's lives one time, 1 fan at a time.
(29:15):
Your goal is to Because most people shift off this mortal
coil with their best music stillinside of them.
How many people have you known they were really going great and
then something happened. Could have been mental, could
have been health wise, it could have been family oriented, it
could have been relationships, it could have been financial,
(29:39):
all kinds of things that happened to derail you.
But you, you really have to knowthat it is a never ending
journey here. If you were really put on this
earth to create art and to sharesaid art with the world and make
(30:03):
others feel that vibration that you're emoting.
You just have to stay consistent.
You have to stay passionate. You got to roll with the
punches, and you got to realize that success is largely a matter
of hanging in there when most others would have folded up,
(30:24):
like cheap lawn chair. And this is not an easy
business. People always say, ah, you work
in the music industry. How exciting.
How wicked. Cool that.
That must be a ton of fun. And you're like, yeah, hey,
thank you. It's true.
It is. It's wonderful.
If you love your job, you'll never work a day in your life.
(30:46):
They truly knew the nonsense that we had to put up with on a
daily basis. They wouldn't be thinking the
way they're thinking. Yeah, there's probably a lot
more bear markets in the music industry for the individuals.
So, yeah, bump and ride. No, but that's so true because
(31:10):
there's other there's so many sayings about this stuff, right?
Like the 10 year overnight success, that kind of stuff.
It's like, yeah, it takes a lot of work.
I mean, these are. And actually, if there's another
thing I'd like to share about this for those of you who are
listening about this, because marketing can be a very
overwhelming journey to begin. But when you start, it becomes
(31:35):
to sort of unfold and you learn along the way.
Learn on the job, right? That's a huge part of it.
And one of the things that I also always tell people is that
while you are still undiscovered, take the time to
really make something that you actually care and mean because
(31:55):
it's going to bleed through everything that you do moving
forward. You don't even have the pressure
right now to do that. So just make it great, as great
as you can. And then when you're there, you
can start to really go and navigate this journey about
discovering who you are as an artist, what that means for your
(32:17):
music and for the audience, and start to open up perspective
about your client essentially, right.
You're your, your, your listenerin this case.
And those kinds of formations that I, that I, that I usually
explain, I feel resonate quite abit because I think a lot of
people put a lot of pressure on themselves, especially with
(32:39):
social media marketing, because,you know, you see all your
friends or all your acquaintances and some of them
are doing really great or they look like they're doing really
great. So that applies internal
pressure, I think for folks. And here's a great opportunity
for me to just tell you guys to just slow down and just like
understand that these things, they take time when it's ready
(33:02):
to bloom. It does have its own phases of,
you know, evolution, so to speak, and, you know, or the
metamorphosis of an artist, right?
It comes in phases. And I think those are really
important to keep in mind because all the things that
we're talking about today in, in, in, in creating a campaign,
(33:23):
for example, that reaches out topeople across the world, it
really requires just a truly foundational understanding of
who you are. And again, your motivation, your
why, your intention, ETC. Can you explain a little bit
more on the differences between some of your approaches on
(33:47):
platforms? Like, you know why you would do
this on TikTok but not on YouTube or Facebook or
Instagram? Well, if you would indulge me,
since I know you got a lot of young listeners and viewers and
(34:12):
you, you know how on the holidays you had to hear the old
uncles like stories from back inthe day?
Yeah, sometimes they could really put you to sleep.
But if they were able to tell a good story, it was fascinating.
So here's how it was. You're in a band.
(34:32):
Let's say you're coming to your new market for the first time.
First thing you do is start going checking out the other
bands. I could be argued, why are you
doing that? Because they're your
competition. You know, they're your enemy.
I was like, Oh no, they're not your enemy.
They're going to be your new friend.
(34:52):
Then you go and check out the local college radio station.
In my case, I enrolled at the university so that I could be on
the college radio station. Then of course, you go scope out
the venues. You scope out the people who are
the decision makers and gatekeepers.
(35:14):
You immediately find out who thelocal writers are.
I mean, this is this is back when it was newspapers, so it's
a little different now, but you actually ensconce yourself into
your world. You have to be proactive.
You have to go out and find those people that can make
things happen for you because ifit's 20% the great music you
(35:39):
make, it's 80% the marketing youimplement, people will be like,
yeah, it's not, that's not right, 1030702080.
You know how important the marketing is. 100% absolutely.
And, and, and the, The funny thing is, is that it has to have
(36:04):
a great product too. So all the work that you're
doing in making your music has to be a given, which is already
for so many folks, right? Part of the biggest challenge of
being in the industry is making like something that is, for
example, industry standard, right?
So when you get to a point in that and now it's like, wait a
(36:26):
minute, this wasn't even like the battle.
This was like, this is the firstone.
You have to now do everything else.
And that's where I get people. You know, who definitely stumble
into this and feel overwhelmed. So but I, I like the analogy of
like talking to like your, your older uncle who's, you know, got
(36:46):
a story that you're just like, well, you know, maybe it's not
as applicable to my life, but nice story uncle.
And it's so true because I thinklike for different platforms,
it's like in a sense, what worksfor one doesn't necessarily work
for the other. So recognizing little traits
about, you know, one of the things actually helped me quite
(37:08):
a bit was why does the person even go to the platform to begin
with, right? I, I always find, for example,
Youtubes great for education because people actively search
on YouTube. Like I, whenever I go to
YouTube, I always search for something.
But you know, when I'm on like TikTok, I'm just mindlessly
scrolling, right? I don't want to think.
(37:29):
So those kinds of things are very important.
And it's like now we're getting into like psychology and the
psychology of being a marketer is completely different from
being a musician. However, I think sometimes that
because musicians are more intuitive through their
creation, I think being an artist is probably the hardest
(37:50):
job in the world because I thinkpeople just completely forget
that there's so much about beingan artist, including the
business side of things that youdon't really think about when
you get into, especially at an early age, which is just for the
love of the art, right? You know, you want to play
(38:10):
guitar, you want to play drums or whatever, and you're just
passionate about that. And then you realize that as you
mature and you start to be more involved and you take it more
seriously, you start seeing there's a lot more to this than
I thought was the bargain at thebeginning, right?
And so I feel like in many, I guess, just musicians in
(38:32):
general, that snowball effect ofincreasing responsibility over
your career as an artist, it does take a lot of tenacity.
You can't, you can't expect to have a career in doing something
that you're not actively participating in.
And I've learned that in my lifeas well.
(38:53):
You know, we as you know, professionals doing our field,
this is something that we've learned to do over the course of
time. I remember the first time I got
into marketing was 2016, and that was by a stroke of luck of
an ad on Facebook. And it was somebody who was
(39:17):
relatable to me. She was a female fronted metal
like singer. I'm a, I'm a metal drummer and
I, we do symphonic metals. I was like, OK, this is cool,
kind of my person. And then following in the
footsteps of it was a whole entire educational thing.
And I learned the greatest lesson out of that was I learned
(39:37):
the principles, but the implementation was so much
longer than when I was just in those classes learning those
principles. And I was like, you know, I
thought I was on the right track.
I was doing good things. But it, you know, that bear
market comes in and you're just like, wait a minute, why is this
(39:57):
happening? I thought I was on the right
track. And then things again over the
course of time. Show me, you know, a very good
point of humility is just. Being able to be humbled by the
efforts that you do and still learn that there's more to all
of this that we're working towards.
(40:19):
And it took me probably maybe like 5 to, yeah, five years to
really know, like, what was exactly my style of music.
And those kinds of things are not the the sexy part of being
in the music industry because it's work.
It's a lot of reflective work too, which is like the stuff we
(40:41):
don't want to look at. So it's like, man, why can't I
just be, you know, this virtuosic, you know, player who
gets it to this point and they play great music.
Well, it's like, well, you got to work on yourself, buddy.
That's what it takes. You got to work on yourself.
And that's the hard truth. This is such an amazing
(41:01):
conversation, Andy. I felt like this was something
that was very introspective. And I, I can definitely sense a
lot of wisdom of what you said in your words.
And I just want to say, you know, thank you so much for
spending the time here. Is there anything maybe you'd
like to share? Maybe information about where
(41:22):
people can find you or any just advice you'd like to leave off
with the podcast? Sure.
Well, to actually bring it up to2025, your musical creation,
think of it as if you're in a tent.
You want every single path into that tent to be open.
(41:45):
So people will say, well, you don't really need to do Facebook
anymore or X isn't the right place.
Really the only place that matters is there's Instagram.
Then you have the other people. All that and all during this
time the YouTube channel gets marginalized.
YouTube is the second largest search engine on the Internet.
(42:09):
So think about it this way. If you're going to be creating
short form content, you want to make sure that you know people
are going to be coming from all different ads into your tent.
So to answer that question earlier, Ken, you want to make
sure that you are there present.If it's time to level up,
(42:31):
everybody, it's time to level up.
But if you're not consistent on these platforms and you're not
consistently releasing new product, can you?
And I both know it's going to begoing to suck to be you.
So just remember success, as I said earlier, so many people,
(42:53):
especially the last five years, have just given up because it's
so difficult now to breakthrough, get past the pay
for good news is, is if you're hooked in with Ken, you're
hooked in with an expert, someone who knows what's what's
real. I mean, the truth has a certain
(43:14):
ring to it. And you know, you and I both
know no one's ever gone broke, like praying on the naivete of
Indy nation, you know, lots of fake, phony, frauds, liars,
fakers, fairy tale makers out there.
So you really do have to do yourresearch, check out the
testimonials, see who they've worked with.
(43:35):
So here at HIP, thankfully, you know, 24 years in, we've never
been shit merchants. I always tell a client I can't
fit to you, this is not a good. I would rather tell a potential
client it's not a good first impression.
Then take his money and lie to him and tell them tell him that
(43:58):
it it is So basically when you reach out to our marketing
company, you get to speak directly to me.
It's I, I think we can all agreeyou want to talk to the person
in charge because then if something goes wrong, you know
who to call and you're not wasting your time.
(44:20):
But thankfully people do just what I mentioned.
They check out the testimonials,they see who we've worked with
and a lot of people will call. They'll be like Andy, I spent
like 1/2 an hour trying to find someone online who is trash
talking you telling the world that you weren't the real deal.
(44:44):
And I always ask well how did that search go?
And there's silence. Now everyone seems to think
y'all are pretty good. And that makes my heart sing
because I love doing this. Because I had to be thrown to
the fire and learn all the things not to do.
Now here I am in a position to actually share with people what
(45:09):
you can do and that what you cando comes from watching.
Well, we've promoted 4800 music videos.
So I have seen like The Lumineers go from zero to 380 in
like 9 months. And then I've seen other artists
that had it all going on but they were lazy.
(45:35):
I want to kids be so angry. They just know you're going to
have to put the work in. And if you don't put in the
work, then you might think aboutanother vocation.
And if you just want to talk about your marketing, you can
reach out to me. It's so easy.
I'm a phone call guy, 732-613-1779 at Video Promo.
(46:05):
I truly practice what I preach. I might be the owner and
president, but you're gonna see my aging mug on all the
different platforms. Like if you go to the LinkedIn
every week, I tell stories from Yeah, you've got to be a
storyteller. You got look at what's happening
with Ken's podcast. Word is spreading, Ken.
(46:29):
I'm sure you can feel it right? Thank you.
No, but it's, it's growing because people need people they
can trust because this is a verydifficult industry.
So just you having me on the program, I'm, I'm so grateful
because I'm sure a lot of the folks who will hear this
transmission will be like, well,I got the guy's number.
(46:53):
What could be the worst thing that happened, could happen if I
call this guy. So yeah, it's just I'm glad this
happened, Ken. Oh, well, thank you so much,
Andy. I really do appreciate the kind
words. And yeah, that's Hip video
promo.com for you guys. And of course, if anybody is
(47:15):
interested in also the educational resources of Metal
Mastermind, you can find that onmetalmastermind.com.
Everything from musical performance to things like music
production and music business onthe horizon.
So we are here today between actually New Jersey and New
York. So we are NE here in the United
(47:36):
States. And again, thank you Andy for
the wonderful chat. I look forward to more
interactions with you in the future.
And as we always say here on Metal Mastermind is to create
your own sound. Thanks so much.
Hi, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Metal
Mastermind. And today I'm with a new guest.
His name is Andy Gessner. Welcome, Andy.
I hope everything that happened before this conversation, it
works out for you. I know you had a bit of a crazy
afternoon. Thank you so much for coming on
(00:35):
the podcast today. I think what we're going to do
is we're going to have a really good chat, especially about
music business. So Andy, welcome.
And why don't we just start off with a little introduction, Who
you are, what you do, and whatnot?
Well, Ken, thank you for having me on the program.
I am very thrilled to be your guest and grateful for the
(01:01):
opportunity. And like most of the people who
tune into your transmissions, I live.
Breathe, sweat, bleed Rock'n'roll.
I played my first Rock'n'roll show in 1980.
Nice. Long I love that time ago, but I
(01:25):
got the bug back on February 9th, 1964 when my older sister
came running into my bedroom on a Sunday night, grabbed me by
the arm and said come on, come on, come on, we're going to
watch Beatles. Amazing.
Oh my gosh. On TV now, of course, I thought
(01:46):
it was going to be some kind of insect show, maybe some kind of
horror flick. I wasn't sure what was going on.
But we gathered around the smallscreened black and white TV, my
sister on one side, my brother on the other.
And Ed Sullivan, He twirled his arm around and said The Beatles
(02:08):
and my sister started screaming like a banshee and spinning
around like a whirling dervish. I looked over at my brother and
his jaw hit the floor. But the most vivid memory Ken
was turning around, looking at my parents.
(02:30):
Not happy, Ken. Wow.
How could they be allowing theirchildren 62 years ago to be
viewing such rubbish? What a cacophony.
What are these long haired British kids doing to our
(02:52):
children? So pretty much from that time it
was all music listening to my older brother and sisters 45 RPM
records. And then of course the 70s
ushered in what we called the High Fi System.
And of course I was a big fan ofthe 8 tracks.
(03:12):
Because when you're a teenager, the last thing you want to be
doing during an intermittent encounter with a cute young 8th
grader is to tell her that you got to get up to turn the record
over. Oh my gosh, definitely dating
during that time was different. Yeah, absolutely so.
(03:37):
Oh my God. I went out because I wanted to
be a part of my clique of friends.
They were all playing guitars and doing all that fun stuff.
And I figured, you know, nobody's got a bass guitar.
Of course, I didn't know anything about playing an
instrument. So I went to the local music
(03:59):
store and I asked the man behindthe counter or left-handed bass
because I right left and I bat left and I throw left.
And he started laughing at me and I got very anxious like
maybe this isn't the place. And then he said who do you
think you are, Paul McCartney orsomething?
(04:21):
And of course I'm just a 17 yearold kid.
I don't know what the heck he's talking about.
But then he just kind of pushed me.
Sad. I'm just busting you man.
All we've got are right-handed bass guitars.
I didn't even have to think more.
In two seconds I just saw it will show me right-handed bass
guitars. And that was 1979.
(04:44):
I haven't looked back. Amazing.
So you've been, you've been in this industry for quite a while
and I've taken a look at your company hit video promo, which
is, you know, it's quite the extensive discography that you
got there. And it's got a lot of really
interesting things that I think for artists in the modern day
(05:08):
are kind of asking questions about.
And I feel the passion. I feel the passion, Andy.
And, you know, like, I always talk to, like, I'm as an
educator, I always talk to my students about recording
technologies and how The Beatleswere a fundamental shift in
recording technology for pop music.
And it was a really important time.
(05:29):
And it's so cool to also be ableto hear it from somebody who
lived during that time and what it really felt like to see that
sensation come on the screen. So in modern day, obviously,
right, The Ed Sullivan Show is avery long time ago.
But with that experience, I think it makes quite a lot of
(05:51):
sense why your industry and why you particularly are involved in
the way you are in your industry.
So talk about video and how video for music really came to
be important in what you do, andwhat is music video promotion
(06:14):
like? Can you start with that kind of
information? I'd love to know.
Sure. Well, it was 42 years ago and we
were all just starting to get cable TVI didn't have cable TV,
but I had friends who did and they said there's this new
channel, man, it's like, and we would all go over to my friend's
(06:40):
house and watch MTV. Now, we had seen some music
videos up to that point, like the legendary Queen Bohemian
Rhapsody video, and we knew thatthere were certain other artists
that were creating visual content.
But Ken, the 80s were all about MTV health, guys.
(07:05):
They weren't saying about it. They wanted their MTV.
And of course, I was still playing in a rock'n'roll band
and trying to fight the good fight.
But in the year 2000, at the ageof 39, after 20 years of trying
to get past that pain point, which I can fully appreciate and
(07:28):
empathize with the people who TuneIn and who needs your sage
wisdom, Ken. How do I get past the pain
point? And it's like someone asked
Beverly Sills, how do I get to Carnegie Hall and she just shook
her head and said practice. So it was it was a necessity is
(08:00):
the mother of all inventions. And in October of 2000 I had a
friend because I didn't know what I was going to do.
It was either reinvent myself orI don't know, go sell appliances
at Best Buy. I don't know what I would have
done. But he said, Andy, I know what
(08:25):
you could do. You could be a music video
promoter. I said, well, that's the
stupidest, most Jackass idea I have.
And he stopped me, says Andy, you know this new thing called
the World Wide Web? I said, yeah, yeah, I know.
(08:45):
It's like, you know, you know when the modem was Ding, Ding,
Ding, right? He says, trust me, it's only
going to be a matter of time before the entire human family
will be able to watch music videos on their computer.
(09:09):
Imagine that. I said, well, how can you be so
sure that what you're telling meis the truth?
And he smiled. He said, yeah, I am pretty well
ensconced in this technological world, and I can assure you it's
(09:30):
only going to be a matter of time before the entire human
family will be able to watch music videos on their computer.
Now, we weren't even thinking about the iPad.
We weren't thinking about the phone.
We weren't thinking about the watch.
We just thought, OK, if this is the case, let me look into it.
(09:55):
Now, 24 years ago, there are a lot of people out there helping
artists and bands get their music videos seen or exposed or
programmed on various televisionchannels.
I jumped right in. I figured, you know, I'll call
(10:19):
this was back when you had basically called people and I
said, hi, I'm Andy. I'm from hip video promo and
just let you know that I am a newcomer to this arena, but sure
would be swell to get the opportunity to work with you.
And the first client was Virgin records.
(10:41):
They brought me Amen, The Price of Reality, which you can still
find on YouTube. And what were the chances that
my first music video ever promoted would be a Hard Rock
music video? It was.
(11:02):
It was very successful and we continued to rock'n'roll with
Virgin for about a year. I'll never forget in 2002, they
called and said, look, we have this band, but it's fronted by
an actor. I'm like, oh, oh, man.
Because we all know what happenswhen an actor fronts a rock
(11:24):
band. It's can anyone say Dog Star?
I mean, not going to have anything against Keanu Reeves,
but yeah, he should probably stick to acting.
So they said they're going to beat the Mercury Lounge in New
York City on August 15th. You really should go to the
(11:45):
show. I'm like, I'm down.
I'm down. And they're like, well, I'm
like, well, what's the name of the band?
They said, well, the band's nameis 30 Seconds To Mars.
And once I got over how at the time ridiculous the name of the
band sounded, I'm like, oh, and I'll go to the show.
Who's the actor? They said it's this guy named
(12:05):
Jared Leto. Yep, I didn't know Jared Leto
from Jared from Subway. I'm like, I don't know.
I don't know this guy. I'm not going to feel any kind
of intimidated, intimidation or trepidation.
And there he was. He came out of the big ass bus.
(12:25):
Can you imagine? Big ass buck bus, you know,
parked on Houston St. New York City.
And we, he introduces me, introduces me to his brother and
he was very kind, very happy to see me and wanted to know what
(12:46):
I'd do for him. And I told him we'd be promoting
that brand new Capricorn, a brand new name video for him.
And then he went into how much time and effort went into that
epic music video. I think he did some kind of deal
with the director where, hey, you make this epic music video
(13:06):
for me and I promise I'll be in one of your upcoming films.
I don't know what went down, butthere they were, 30 Seconds To
Mars Mercury Lounge, August 15th, 2002.
After the show, I was very complimentary.
They said, yeah, you got to comedown to Philly tomorrow night
(13:26):
and see us perform there. I'm like, all right, I live in
New Jersey. I could probably do that.
Where are y'all playing? And they said we're playing at
the Kyber Pass. I'm thinking mine because I
played there numerous times. But Ken, it is nothing more than
(13:47):
a shot and deer joint hole in the wall right there on South
Street. And hey, from small acorns, big
O trees grow. So it was exciting, Needless to
say. But the break, big break came in
February of 2003 when my pleasantly persistence,
(14:09):
persistence, pleasantly persistent.
That's what I like to call myself.
I got the call from Lost Highwayand I said, I know you've been
reaching out a lot. We really haven't had anything.
But now we're really up against it because we have this new
video, Andy, we don't know what to do with it.
(14:30):
So I asked to the artist was there's a bit of a silence.
I said, well, it's Johnny Cat. And my jaw hit the floor.
I'm like, you mean the iconic man in black, most legendary
American in the annals? And then I said, yeah, but
(14:55):
here's the issue, Andy. In the music video, it looks
like he's about ready to die. Oh my God.
And then they said, and what's more, it's a Nine Inch Nails
(15:16):
cover. So I'm trying to imagine in my
head Ken what hell like. What's going on here?
What is going on here? So they said, let me pop AVHS in
the mail to you FedEx and you and your team will have it
tomorrow morning. Yes, that's how we did it 22
(15:38):
years ago. It wasn't as simple, just OK,
let me e-mail you the link. Yes, overnight a VHS tape.
So we all gathered around the VCR.
We watched that Johnny Cash Hurtvideo and I looked around at my
I was not the only one in the room with a little bit of a tear
(16:02):
in in my eye because there he was and showing such
vulnerability. And it's true, he didn't look
too well, but there he was. And it was kind of a story
chronicling his incredible 5 year decade journey, creating
(16:25):
music from the masses and becoming a legend all across the
world. Well, of course we said, yeah,
we're going to promote that video if you'll have us.
And they did. And the rest of this history,
because now I could go back to Sub Pop.
I could go back to Poly vinyl. I could call John.
It fueled by Ramen, the wonderful people at touch and
(16:47):
go. Hello Vice, right?
Vice brought us Death from Above1969.
All the great labels of the day were coming our way.
And that's right around the timewe got to work with Corn and
Mötley Crüe and we promoted the 1st 85 Finger Death Punch
(17:10):
videos. It sure was a good time in the
world. I mean, now in, in the case of
let's for our viewers, because you, you, you know, you, you're,
you're claiming all this tremendous experience and that's
amazing. What then makes a great music
(17:30):
video that moves like what are some of those points that you
have experienced over your career that said, well, there's
a reason why this did well and it's because of XYZ.
What are there some factors thatyou've seen in recurring music
videos that portray those traits?
(17:53):
If we all listen to music to feel a way we'd rather be
feeling, then I think you could be argued we watch a music video
to feel a way we'd rather be feeling.
And a lot of times the music video, and I think it's still
(18:16):
true to this day. It truly is the cornerstone of
any musical creative's identity.So I tell every new client that
reaches out to us, you don't geta second chance to make a first
impression. And it's true with anything you
(18:38):
do in your life journey, you want that kind of video that
when you are done watching it, you have no other visceral urge
than to watch it again. And I don't have the secret
(18:59):
sauce on how to make that particular dish, but, and you've
seen it too. You know it when you come across
it. Absolutely.
It's in a sense in some ways similar to songwriting.
(19:20):
You know, it's very closely tiedcreative endeavor that drives a
narrative in many cases. Sometimes I think, you know,
when things are a little more abstract or guerrilla style,
there's a there's a different intention there.
But I think it definitely comes down to the intention of what's
being portrayed, how that's being conveyed, the message and
(19:45):
what sticks at the end with the person that then yeah, in in a
case of for sure, it could entice one to listen again with
the visual because it brings upon a specific experience,
right. I think all of those are really,
really. Important things with music
video creation, but as now I'm sure you're aware of, but for
(20:11):
musicians and artists, a lot of the focus becomes deeply
embedded with creation, but not necessarily the communication of
that creation. It's very common that my
students will say, well, I do this sort of thing and I don't
(20:32):
know, but it's my own thing and it's like no one else's.
And I and I tell them, well, there's this thing called the
entire history of recorded music.
And there is some place that somebody who sees your thing can
probably associate with something in recorded music.
So what is that, you know, and these are questions that require
(20:56):
a lot of active critical thinking.
Do you find that musicians have to be more critical more than
ever because of this entire Internet, be your own boss kind
of fiasco that's happening nowadays?
What are your thoughts on that? Well, I'm thinking of all the
(21:17):
people in the music marketing world who have never picked up
an instrument, never been on stage, never tried to book a
show, never broke down on Interstate 95 or had to sleep on
strange people's floors. And I always wonder, wow, do you
(21:46):
really want someone who hasn't? Oh yeah, you might audit
wholesale university or you might have had a stint on the
college program concert board. I get it.
Yes, all good. But I think all of us types that
(22:08):
feel that need to create and to then record and then, God
willing, perform. And it's like the back of the
shampoo bottle. Once you've done that, what do
you do? You do it, you rinse and you
(22:30):
repeat and you just keep the cycle going for as long as you
possibly can. Ken, have you ever asked your
students this question? Do you want to bug your students
out? Ask them this question.
Say hey sport, what is your motivation?
(22:59):
Absolutely. Bugs them out.
Yeah. What do you mean my motivation?
It's to get chicks. What do you What?
Come on. You know what my motivation is?
It's to get chicks. I'm like, no, no, I hear you.
I hear you. But what is your real
motivation? And then they really have to
(23:19):
start thinking about and they'llsay things like, well, I really
want to create something that's going to make the world and my
friends and fans of this musicalgenre feel less alone.
I'm like, all right, that's goodthat now you're now, now you're
(23:41):
cooking. This is good.
I smell what you're cooking here.
This is great because as much asthe video could be wonderfully
crafted and you've got fabulous choreography and you got the top
notch makeup person and the director of photography is well
(24:01):
known and worked with big names,but you and I both know.
I mean, you can poke at it and you can rub it, but when it
comes to the song, you cannot Polish a purr.
Right. And you know, the other half to
that quote is, but you can put the glitter on it, right?
(24:27):
No, that's totally true. You're and and, and, and going
back to it's kind of like askingjust what is your why?
Like, why do you do this in the 1st place?
That has to be the spirit that'ssort of imbued in the creation
that you're you're offering for someone to to view on the other
side, right? That has to be felt and that
(24:50):
cannot be just told. So I the intention and, and you
know, again, this is a also comes back to like a even an
audio engineering aspect of it is like, why are you even
tackling that sound the way you're tackling it, right?
What is the reason behind that? You know, your motivation, your
(25:10):
intention to all of this. It's a, it's a greater cause to
seeing the bigger picture, whichis great.
I love that you're going that large and I feel that at a
fundamental level, almost in a sense, like if you understand
maybe even certain things about how the the universe works or
(25:31):
like how physics works, it makesother more complex things easier
to understand and try to allow it to naturally, quote UN quote
unfold because of that understanding.
But music video promotion marketing, I mean, you know, and
(25:51):
this is this is a question that I definitely get all the time,
but you know, I want to hear from you like the difference
between these departments like promo marketing, you know,
advertising. A lot of students always ask me
these questions. But how would you define the
roles of all of these departments?
And how many hats must a musician in a modern day maybe
(26:15):
have to wear? Yeah, what a good question.
I would say when it comes to those three you mention, same
corporation, different division,it's all promotion, it's all
marketing, it's all advertising.And it used to be you could
(26:40):
pretty much blend in to the background and let the music do
the talking. How many times have you heard
this, Ken? I really don't want to do the
online stuff. I just want people to like me
for my music, and you look at them and you know that it's
never going to happen for this person.
(27:02):
He's going to. You've got to put your
inhibitions on the back burner now if you're going to be a
public figure. You can't be like the Wizard of
Oz and I am the mighty guitar player.
No, you got to absolutely realize that if people like your
music, they're going to want to,they're going to want to like
(27:25):
you. So don't disappoint them.
Don't be a Jackass. Don't be an arrogant one.
Don't be unappreciative. Don't be oozing hubris from
every orifice. For instance, if people come and
(27:45):
are checking you out online, I mean, you're the host of your
musical party. You got to greet them, take
their coat, showing them where the food is.
You got to show them the warm and fuzzy.
Because we know it's the Super fan.
And we've all been super fans ofsome kind of musical entity.
(28:06):
And the Super fans do all the work for you because they'll
tell everybody they know that you got to check out keeping Tom
or Corn or whoever. The idea being is that you've
got to create something that is memorable.
You're making a video. Don't start with, don't try to
(28:29):
be cutesy. You know, you got to get, it's
like Tom Petty said, don't bore us.
Get to the chorus. Well, people have an attention
span nowadays less than a gold thing.
So you really have to be cognizant that you're going to
get this one shot with people. So you got to make it count.
(28:53):
And if when you ask yourself what is your motivation?
And you say to yourself, well, Iwant to be rich and I want to be
a rock star so I don't have to work at the shopping mall.
Yeah. Your motivation is to change
people's lives one time, 1 fan at a time.
(29:15):
Your goal is to Because most people shift off this mortal
coil with their best music stillinside of them.
How many people have you known they were really going great and
then something happened. Could have been mental, could
have been health wise, it could have been family oriented, it
could have been relationships, it could have been financial,
(29:39):
all kinds of things that happened to derail you.
But you, you really have to knowthat it is a never ending
journey here. If you were really put on this
earth to create art and to sharesaid art with the world and make
(30:03):
others feel that vibration that you're emoting.
You just have to stay consistent.
You have to stay passionate. You got to roll with the
punches, and you got to realize that success is largely a matter
of hanging in there when most others would have folded up,
(30:24):
like cheap lawn chair. And this is not an easy
business. People always say, ah, you work
in the music industry. How exciting.
How wicked. Cool that.
That must be a ton of fun. And you're like, yeah, hey,
thank you. It's true.
It is. It's wonderful.
If you love your job, you'll never work a day in your life.
(30:46):
They truly knew the nonsense that we had to put up with on a
daily basis. They wouldn't be thinking the
way they're thinking. Yeah, there's probably a lot
more bear markets in the music industry for the individuals.
So, yeah, bump and ride. No, but that's so true because
(31:10):
there's other there's so many sayings about this stuff, right?
Like the 10 year overnight success, that kind of stuff.
It's like, yeah, it takes a lot of work.
I mean, these are. And actually, if there's another
thing I'd like to share about this for those of you who are
listening about this, because marketing can be a very
overwhelming journey to begin. But when you start, it becomes
(31:35):
to sort of unfold and you learn along the way.
Learn on the job, right? That's a huge part of it.
And one of the things that I also always tell people is that
while you are still undiscovered, take the time to
really make something that you actually care and mean because
(31:55):
it's going to bleed through everything that you do moving
forward. You don't even have the pressure
right now to do that. So just make it great, as great
as you can. And then when you're there, you
can start to really go and navigate this journey about
discovering who you are as an artist, what that means for your
(32:17):
music and for the audience, and start to open up perspective
about your client essentially, right.
You're your, your, your listenerin this case.
And those kinds of formations that I, that I, that I usually
explain, I feel resonate quite abit because I think a lot of
people put a lot of pressure on themselves, especially with
(32:39):
social media marketing, because,you know, you see all your
friends or all your acquaintances and some of them
are doing really great or they look like they're doing really
great. So that applies internal
pressure, I think for folks. And here's a great opportunity
for me to just tell you guys to just slow down and just like
understand that these things, they take time when it's ready
(33:02):
to bloom. It does have its own phases of,
you know, evolution, so to speak, and, you know, or the
metamorphosis of an artist, right?
It comes in phases. And I think those are really
important to keep in mind because all the things that
we're talking about today in, in, in, in creating a campaign,
(33:23):
for example, that reaches out topeople across the world, it
really requires just a truly foundational understanding of
who you are. And again, your motivation, your
why, your intention, ETC. Can you explain a little bit
more on the differences between some of your approaches on
(33:47):
platforms? Like, you know why you would do
this on TikTok but not on YouTube or Facebook or
Instagram? Well, if you would indulge me,
since I know you got a lot of young listeners and viewers and
(34:12):
you, you know how on the holidays you had to hear the old
uncles like stories from back inthe day?
Yeah, sometimes they could really put you to sleep.
But if they were able to tell a good story, it was fascinating.
So here's how it was. You're in a band.
(34:32):
Let's say you're coming to your new market for the first time.
First thing you do is start going checking out the other
bands. I could be argued, why are you
doing that? Because they're your
competition. You know, they're your enemy.
I was like, Oh no, they're not your enemy.
They're going to be your new friend.
(34:52):
Then you go and check out the local college radio station.
In my case, I enrolled at the university so that I could be on
the college radio station. Then of course, you go scope out
the venues. You scope out the people who are
the decision makers and gatekeepers.
(35:14):
You immediately find out who thelocal writers are.
I mean, this is this is back when it was newspapers, so it's
a little different now, but you actually ensconce yourself into
your world. You have to be proactive.
You have to go out and find those people that can make
things happen for you because ifit's 20% the great music you
(35:39):
make, it's 80% the marketing youimplement, people will be like,
yeah, it's not, that's not right, 1030702080.
You know how important the marketing is. 100% absolutely.
And, and, and the, The funny thing is, is that it has to have
(36:04):
a great product too. So all the work that you're
doing in making your music has to be a given, which is already
for so many folks, right? Part of the biggest challenge of
being in the industry is making like something that is, for
example, industry standard, right?
So when you get to a point in that and now it's like, wait a
(36:26):
minute, this wasn't even like the battle.
This was like, this is the firstone.
You have to now do everything else.
And that's where I get people. You know, who definitely stumble
into this and feel overwhelmed. So but I, I like the analogy of
like talking to like your, your older uncle who's, you know, got
(36:46):
a story that you're just like, well, you know, maybe it's not
as applicable to my life, but nice story uncle.
And it's so true because I thinklike for different platforms,
it's like in a sense, what worksfor one doesn't necessarily work
for the other. So recognizing little traits
about, you know, one of the things actually helped me quite
(37:08):
a bit was why does the person even go to the platform to begin
with, right? I, I always find, for example,
Youtubes great for education because people actively search
on YouTube. Like I, whenever I go to
YouTube, I always search for something.
But you know, when I'm on like TikTok, I'm just mindlessly
scrolling, right? I don't want to think.
(37:29):
So those kinds of things are very important.
And it's like now we're getting into like psychology and the
psychology of being a marketer is completely different from
being a musician. However, I think sometimes that
because musicians are more intuitive through their
creation, I think being an artist is probably the hardest
(37:50):
job in the world because I thinkpeople just completely forget
that there's so much about beingan artist, including the
business side of things that youdon't really think about when
you get into, especially at an early age, which is just for the
love of the art, right? You know, you want to play
(38:10):
guitar, you want to play drums or whatever, and you're just
passionate about that. And then you realize that as you
mature and you start to be more involved and you take it more
seriously, you start seeing there's a lot more to this than
I thought was the bargain at thebeginning, right?
And so I feel like in many, I guess, just musicians in
(38:32):
general, that snowball effect ofincreasing responsibility over
your career as an artist, it does take a lot of tenacity.
You can't, you can't expect to have a career in doing something
that you're not actively participating in.
And I've learned that in my lifeas well.
(38:53):
You know, we as you know, professionals doing our field,
this is something that we've learned to do over the course of
time. I remember the first time I got
into marketing was 2016, and that was by a stroke of luck of
an ad on Facebook. And it was somebody who was
(39:17):
relatable to me. She was a female fronted metal
like singer. I'm a, I'm a metal drummer and
I, we do symphonic metals. I was like, OK, this is cool,
kind of my person. And then following in the
footsteps of it was a whole entire educational thing.
And I learned the greatest lesson out of that was I learned
(39:37):
the principles, but the implementation was so much
longer than when I was just in those classes learning those
principles. And I was like, you know, I
thought I was on the right track.
I was doing good things. But it, you know, that bear
market comes in and you're just like, wait a minute, why is this
(39:57):
happening? I thought I was on the right
track. And then things again over the
course of time. Show me, you know, a very good
point of humility is just. Being able to be humbled by the
efforts that you do and still learn that there's more to all
of this that we're working towards.
(40:19):
And it took me probably maybe like 5 to, yeah, five years to
really know, like, what was exactly my style of music.
And those kinds of things are not the the sexy part of being
in the music industry because it's work.
It's a lot of reflective work too, which is like the stuff we
(40:41):
don't want to look at. So it's like, man, why can't I
just be, you know, this virtuosic, you know, player who
gets it to this point and they play great music.
Well, it's like, well, you got to work on yourself, buddy.
That's what it takes. You got to work on yourself.
And that's the hard truth. This is such an amazing
(41:01):
conversation, Andy. I felt like this was something
that was very introspective. And I, I can definitely sense a
lot of wisdom of what you said in your words.
And I just want to say, you know, thank you so much for
spending the time here. Is there anything maybe you'd
like to share? Maybe information about where
(41:22):
people can find you or any just advice you'd like to leave off
with the podcast? Sure.
Well, to actually bring it up to2025, your musical creation,
think of it as if you're in a tent.
You want every single path into that tent to be open.
(41:45):
So people will say, well, you don't really need to do Facebook
anymore or X isn't the right place.
Really the only place that matters is there's Instagram.
Then you have the other people. All that and all during this
time the YouTube channel gets marginalized.
YouTube is the second largest search engine on the Internet.
(42:09):
So think about it this way. If you're going to be creating
short form content, you want to make sure that you know people
are going to be coming from all different ads into your tent.
So to answer that question earlier, Ken, you want to make
sure that you are there present.If it's time to level up,
(42:31):
everybody, it's time to level up.
But if you're not consistent on these platforms and you're not
consistently releasing new product, can you?
And I both know it's going to begoing to suck to be you.
So just remember success, as I said earlier, so many people,
(42:53):
especially the last five years, have just given up because it's
so difficult now to breakthrough, get past the pay
for good news is, is if you're hooked in with Ken, you're
hooked in with an expert, someone who knows what's what's
real. I mean, the truth has a certain
(43:14):
ring to it. And you know, you and I both
know no one's ever gone broke, like praying on the naivete of
Indy nation, you know, lots of fake, phony, frauds, liars,
fakers, fairy tale makers out there.
So you really do have to do yourresearch, check out the
testimonials, see who they've worked with.
(43:35):
So here at HIP, thankfully, you know, 24 years in, we've never
been shit merchants. I always tell a client I can't
fit to you, this is not a good. I would rather tell a potential
client it's not a good first impression.
Then take his money and lie to him and tell them tell him that
(43:58):
it it is So basically when you reach out to our marketing
company, you get to speak directly to me.
It's I, I think we can all agreeyou want to talk to the person
in charge because then if something goes wrong, you know
who to call and you're not wasting your time.
(44:20):
But thankfully people do just what I mentioned.
They check out the testimonials,they see who we've worked with
and a lot of people will call. They'll be like Andy, I spent
like 1/2 an hour trying to find someone online who is trash
talking you telling the world that you weren't the real deal.
(44:44):
And I always ask well how did that search go?
And there's silence. Now everyone seems to think
y'all are pretty good. And that makes my heart sing
because I love doing this. Because I had to be thrown to
the fire and learn all the things not to do.
Now here I am in a position to actually share with people what
(45:09):
you can do and that what you cando comes from watching.
Well, we've promoted 4800 music videos.
So I have seen like The Lumineers go from zero to 380 in
like 9 months. And then I've seen other artists
that had it all going on but they were lazy.
(45:35):
I want to kids be so angry. They just know you're going to
have to put the work in. And if you don't put in the
work, then you might think aboutanother vocation.
And if you just want to talk about your marketing, you can
reach out to me. It's so easy.
I'm a phone call guy, 732-613-1779 at Video Promo.
(46:05):
I truly practice what I preach. I might be the owner and
president, but you're gonna see my aging mug on all the
different platforms. Like if you go to the LinkedIn
every week, I tell stories from Yeah, you've got to be a
storyteller. You got look at what's happening
with Ken's podcast. Word is spreading, Ken.
(46:29):
I'm sure you can feel it right? Thank you.
No, but it's, it's growing because people need people they
can trust because this is a verydifficult industry.
So just you having me on the program, I'm, I'm so grateful
because I'm sure a lot of the folks who will hear this
transmission will be like, well,I got the guy's number.
(46:53):
What could be the worst thing that happened, could happen if I
call this guy. So yeah, it's just I'm glad this
happened, Ken. Oh, well, thank you so much,
Andy. I really do appreciate the kind
words. And yeah, that's Hip video
promo.com for you guys. And of course, if anybody is
(47:15):
interested in also the educational resources of Metal
Mastermind, you can find that onmetalmastermind.com.
Everything from musical performance to things like music
production and music business onthe horizon.
So we are here today between actually New Jersey and New
York. So we are NE here in the United
(47:36):
States. And again, thank you Andy for
the wonderful chat. I look forward to more
interactions with you in the future.
And as we always say here on Metal Mastermind is to create
your own sound. Thanks so much.
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