April 28, 2025 • 38 mins
Ken and guest Marc Urselli speak on vinyl, his eclectic project that fuses Doom Metal and Tuvan Throat Singing called "SteppenDoom", exploring the outer reaches of creativity, the importance of an intern at a recording studio and how to become a great producer.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:14):
Hi everybody, and welcome to another episode of Metal
Mastermind. I'm your host, Ken Candelas, and
I have with me a very special guest today.
It is Mark Urcelli, three time award-winning for Grammys.
I'm talking about Grammys, threetime Grammy award-winning
engineer and also a fabulous friend, someone who's really
(00:35):
experienced in this industry. Mark, welcome to the Metal
Mastermind podcast. How are you doing, my friend?
I'm doing great. Thank you for having me, Ken.
Awesome at some context, Mark has worked with some of the
biggest artists around the world.
He's been to places like Abbey Road, he's worked with John
Zorn, Lou Reed, some Foo Fighters.
(00:56):
He even does the Grammy event live in live sound.
So Mark, you've had quite a a career to work with and you
know, why don't you just start off by talking about who you
are, what you do, what you like to do in your spare time and all
that good stuff? Yeah, variety is the spice of
(01:20):
life, so I like to do a lot of different things, which is why
my career has become so varied. I go from doing live sounds to
doing studio work, and when I dodo studio work or live sound, I
go from doing metal to doing jazz to doing classical music
and opera and everything in between.
Really. Everything is fair game pretty
(01:41):
much. I don't do a lot of hip hop and
R and BI tend to work on the genres that I'm that I've
listened to all my life because that feels like familiar
grounds. And then I, you know, I always
know what to do. And yeah, like you said, I've,
I've worked with a lot of great artists.
I've been very fortunate in thatregard.
(02:04):
But it's not just luck, it's a lot of hard work.
I've been doing this for 30 plusyears now.
I opened my first recording studio when I was 17 years old
and I still lived in Italy and Iworked there and made a lot of
punk hardcore records. Then eventually later moved to
the States and started doing a lot of jazz records because in
(02:26):
New York jazz is one of the biggest scenes.
But you know, I come from metal.I used to let used to listen to
metal as a kid, and so I've eventually gone back,
gravitated, gravitated back to metal.
And so metal is now in my life as much as jazz and as much as
some other genres are, and I enjoy it very much.
(02:47):
That's amazing. Yeah, I was just before we got
on this recording, I was just making a note of your vinyl
collection there, which is awesome.
And was vinyl for you super important growing up, or is that
something you acquired over time?
I acquired it over time, meaningthat in my most formative youth
(03:08):
years, like, you know, I'm 48. So when I was between 15 and 20,
which is where most of my recordcollection grew, it was mostly
CDs and cassettes. At the time I did have a small
vinyl collection but I I went back to vinyl more later more in
(03:31):
New York. My vinyl collection in New York
is much bigger than mine. My vinyl collection back home in
Italy, whereas my CD collection is I have like 5000 CDs back in
my parents basement from when I was a kid and like 400
cassettes. But now it's now it's mostly
vinyl when I buy physical. Now it just why?
(03:55):
Why is that? Is that?
Is it because of the, you know, tangible experience with vinyl,
or is it some other reason? I mean, for me to be fully
transparent, it started with a record label which you see you
saw back there, there's a label called Nouvelle Records which
makes jazz vinyl only releases. And I've, I'm their engineer,
(04:19):
I've recorded over 40 or 50 of their albums.
And because they were making these final only releases, I
wanted a way to listen to them. And so I, and, and so I bought a
turntable and then I was like, well, now I have a turntable and
you get some more vinyl and, andthe tangibility of the format
(04:39):
definitely has something to do with it.
I, I do very much enjoy holding it, you know, reading the
credits, having a larger physical picture of everything.
It's a great thing. The only thing I don't like
about Lion Vinyl is having to switch sides.
Yeah, well, there's only so muchwe can love and then have to
(05:00):
take away another experience. Same thing with like, tape.
Tape sounds great, but it's also, you know, you don't really
get that much time to record with it either.
So but that's a that's very, very cool.
I noticed that in the overall trend of the industry, vinyl has
definitely had a big resurgence.So it's such a cool thing to see
that people want to get more hands on with music.
(05:26):
And I think it's a beautiful thing.
And it's also something that I, I've also noticed with your own
project Step in Doom, which is avery, very totally like weird
like out there idea of working with like do metal and like
Mongolian throat singing. And it's got such a really cool
(05:47):
thing to it. I was listening to it before the
podcast just to sort of freshen myself on it.
I really like track 3. That's a really good one.
And yeah, I thought it was like such a cool ambiance to have
around. I can, I can imagine like just
putting the needle down on Step and Doom and just letting it
rock for a bit and just feeling the vibes with a good couple of
(06:08):
friends. Nice work there.
Do you want to talk a little bitactually about maybe what
sparked the creativity of Step and Doom?
So Step and Doom is a project that I started before the
pandemic and I wanted to join mylove for doom metal, which is
the genre within the metal genres that I the sub genre that
(06:31):
I may maybe like the most, and my love for throat singing.
For those who don't know, throatsinging is a vocal technique
where you create overtones and and have multiple tones going at
the same time created with your vocal cords.
And it's a technique that was basically, you know, is a full
(06:53):
tradition of tuba, Mongolia and Siberia primarily, although it's
also practiced in some areas, remote areas of Italy and South
Africa. I've, I've known this technique
for a long time, always loved the way it sounded and always
thought it would be really greattogether with metal.
So I decided to do that just that I put that together, I
played drums and bass, recorded,mixed and produced a record.
(07:16):
And then I asked metal guitar players like from from bands
like Sleep High On Fire, Neurosis, Paradise Lost,
etcetera, etcetera, to be a partof this record and add guitars,
in some cases, keyboards or percussion, stuff like that.
And so the record came out, cametogether.
(07:36):
It's, I'm very proud of it. And Magnetic Eye, which is a
labeling in California and Germany, put it out and made a
beautiful packaging with vinyl, a box.
I mean there's also regular CD and regular vial versions and of
course digital download, but thebeautiful box set version you
can buy for $90.00 has the vinyl, A7 inch limited edition
(08:01):
vinyl, a book with photos of these throat singers as well as
the musicians and photos of Tu in Mongolia.
I hired 2 photographers to do and then some posters.
So it's a really amazing box that I recommend you check out.
You know, that's, that's so incredible because, you know,
part of this, like I, I intendedto discuss about, you know,
(08:24):
artistry and working with artists and, you know, studio
ownership. But you know, I'm, I'm really
curious about this now because this approach to making music
in, in, in a much more global fashion was something that's
always intriguing to me. I always found that even for
example, writing in another language lyrics, very, very
(08:45):
helpful way to understand intonation and how words fit
with rhythms and all this sort of thing.
And I'm just curious about with with the case of throat singing
and how that's how that's used. Is it is it the foundation of
your structure that you're you're moving forward with the
music? Or was it, you know, secondary
(09:06):
to the performance that you played on your guitars and
drums? Like what was that like?
And how are you going about mixing this?
What would be a very acoustic, totally far out genre of music
that is now infused with doom metal here.
Yeah, I mean the wreck I I wrotethe record myself and I wrote it
(09:29):
on a bass, but a particular instrument, which is a 12 string
bass, I'm very enamored of that instrument.
It's it's, it's, it's basically for 4 strings, like a regular
bass, but every string has threestrings, a low string and two
high strings. So when you hit one note, it
sounds like you have a chorus and an octave are going but
(09:50):
straight out of the bass. So imagine adding distortion to
that. It's a humongous sound.
Before I even added guitars, therecord already sounded huge, you
know, And then I, my initial idea was to record drums myself
and then as a demo and then havethem replaced by a drummer.
But it, you know, eventually I really liked what, what I was,
(10:13):
what I had recorded because it was exactly what I had in mind.
And I'm not a great drummer, butI'm a great Pro Tools editor.
And so I fixed myself up to makeme make me sound perfectly on
time with my bass playing, whichis also not that great.
But I'm a good producer. I'm not that great a musician on
instruments, but that was the foundation of the record.
(10:36):
The guitars came later and the throat singers came later.
And to answer your question about lyrics, I didn't want to
put any kind of limitation or even direction onto the throat
singers. So I just said you can sing
about whatever you want. And they, they all sang as far
as I know, because I don't speakto the nor Mongolian or Siberian
(10:59):
or Russian. As far as I know they were, I
was told all the lyrics are about their traditional lyrics.
So they're about fire and natureand birds and horses.
And, you know, they go eagle hunting.
There's great pictures in the book I mentioned of them going
there on horses, holding eagles in one hand.
(11:22):
And they go and hunt for food with those eagles that are
trained to go get the food and bring it back.
So it's, they're very special traditions.
These, some of them are nomads. You know, they move in yurts,
they're called these Mongolian tents.
So it's, it's a, there's an amazing tradition back there.
And the book kind of tries to give a glimpse of that.
(11:45):
Amazing. I love that.
Very culturally diverse and focused on art and all of this
is I feel like there there needsto be more of this kind of
stuff. Let me grab, let me grab the
record so I can show you what I'm talking about.
Absolutely. Yeah, let's see it.
(12:10):
There it is. Look at this all.
Right. This this is the box set that I
was talking about and there's. What bad ass?
There's one of those hunters with the eagle on the horse and
these are all pictures that I basically hired A photographer
(12:30):
to take. So then inside the box set there
is of course the vinyl which is this, which you can also buy buy
as a single version of vinyl with a beautiful spray.
Oh, look at that. Oh my gosh.
These are all photos from Mongolia.
Then there's a bunch of posters.There's the seven inch that I
mentioned, which has 2 limited edition versions only available
(12:55):
in the seven inch. And then there's this beautiful
book which has a lot of great photos, but I'll show you the
posters. So these are these are the eagle
hunters. Gorgeous.
These are the yurts I was talking about.
So this is what they live in. And these are, you know, nomads.
(13:20):
These are again, those eagle hunters on horses.
So these are some of the images.And then of course, of course,
there's images of all the musicians.
So if you, you know, if you go through the book, you'll see
pictures of people living in thetents.
But like in, in further down, you know, you'll see pictures of
(13:43):
the musicians like that. You know there's.
That's gorgeous, I love the package.
The packaging is amazing. I'm so proud of this record.
You know magnetic guy did a magnet a magnificent job on on
this. So let me ask you this question,
(14:03):
Mark. You know, you said that this was
something that sort of kind of came out of like the pandemic in
a way. And I'm wondering how such an
event has changed your approach to production.
It hasn't really changed anything.
It was just a pause, a forced pause, but it has slowed me down
(14:25):
for a minute but also has given me the opportunity to finish the
record. The record I started way before
the pandemic, so it's not reallya pandemic project, but I was
able to finish it because I had time during the pandemic.
I'm usually, thankfully and I'm very grateful for this,
extremely busy and have a very hard time finding time for my
own projects. But in that forced period of
(14:50):
pausing that the pandemic gave us gave us, I basically picked
up all things that I never had time to finish.
And that was one of them at the top of the list.
Yeah, I can relate to that too. I, I, I, I had my own project
also kind of take off because ofthe pandemic.
And I'm wondering because of, you know, artistry, right?
(15:10):
People having the time to reflect and focus on their art,
maybe. Has that changed how artists
maybe view coming to the studio or have they changed priorities
in your opinion? I don't know if if they've
changed priorities. I mean, you know, artists have
everyone has changed with the pandemic in a way from one side.
(15:33):
From the other side, I feel likepeople have have short historic
memory and so they've already moved on and forgot about the
pandemic. So, you know, the the time
during the pandemic was interesting making records with
masks, especially when you had horn players.
It was it was a challenge. And you know, I remember the
times where we had to test before doing a session, all of
(15:56):
that. I'm very glad that's all over
and behind us. And hopefully we won't
experience another one in our lifetime, although I have my
doubts. Well, when a when an artist
comes into your your studio, what, what is that experience
usually like for them? Can you walk me through it?
Yeah, I mean, most artists know what what to expect from a
(16:21):
studio because they've done it before.
Thankfully at my in in my world,at my level, I work with artists
that have, you know, have been recording for many years.
And so they know what to expect and I ask them what they want to
do and, and I prepare for them. I'm a big fan of preparation, of
knowing in advance what's going to happen so that I can make
(16:43):
sure everyone's taken care of and happy and, and can do their
best work. And so I prepare, I set up
instruments and, and set up microphones and get levels ahead
of time so that they, when they can walk, when they walk in,
they can Simply put on headphones and pretty much start
recording. That's what I strive for.
(17:05):
It doesn't always happen becausethere's always last minute
changes or additions, things they didn't tell me about or
things they want to move, whatever.
But I go with the flow. That's what you have to do when
you're an engineer, And then I just try to make him feel
comfortable so they can do theirwork.
Yeah, it's it's quite a psychological game, so.
Very much so, yeah. You know, I, I, I understand
(17:28):
that, you know, the technical aspect of, of, you know, being
an engineer and doing all of that is, is one thing, but it
always in, in what I've learned,it said it, it really comes down
to just being with the person that you enjoy working with and
you know, in your career, you, you've done, you know, quite a
lot of networking and making connections and all that kind of
stuff. And I, I, I understand that, you
(17:50):
know, in that world you are, in addition to your, your
engineering prowess, you basically have to make sure that
everybody there likes each other, likes working with each
other, likes feeling, you know, safe in their environment.
Do you still ever get like jitters and stuff like that when
(18:11):
you work with high profile artists?
Yeah, I mean, it certainly has happened.
It's not so much about jitter, it's not so much jitters, but
it's it's more like that sense of like I can't mess up.
These people have, you know, they're used to a very high
standards and they have no patience for.
(18:31):
That's why I like preparation. You know, when I worked with you
2IN the studio, they came at sixPMI believe I got there at 10
AM. So I had those 8 hours.
I mean, it was a special situation because we were using
the place that had been, was a studio, but wasn't anymore a
commercial studio. So we had to move furniture and
(18:52):
do a lot of other things you normally wouldn't have to do on
a recording session. But yeah, you know, I, I, I make
sure that I'm 100% or 150% prepared so that whenever they
get there, there's no questions.That's a, that's a really good
tip. And as, as an educator, I, I,
(19:15):
I've sent some interns your way.And do you have any advice for
people who are looking to internat a studio?
Is there any general best practice that you would say?
Always keep these in mind. Well, one thing I'll tell you,
one thing that puts me off when I get interns resumes is them
(19:39):
boasting about their Pro Tools promise and not realizing that
they won't even be touching Pro Tools for a long time if they
start an internship. So I really want my interns to
understand signal flow, to understand game structure and to
understand that they're there tofacilitate the sessions that are
(20:01):
going to happen. So I'm more interested in them
being able to know how to handlean expensive microphone set up,
a microphone, breakdown a microphone using care than not,
them knowing being being fast, or knowing all the shortcuts in
Pro Tools because they won't be using Pro Tools when they start
intern interning. And really, as far as bad as
(20:25):
that sounds, I'm more interestedin them knowing how to make
coffee because that that is whatthey'll be making, you know, on
an internship at the beginning. All the interns that I've worked
for me under me at East Side Sound, which is the studio where
I'm chief engineer of in New York, they've all of those who
have made it and I made it. I mean, that have graduated from
(20:48):
being interns to being assistantand starting, you know, to get
paid to being engineers. Everyone that by the way, at
works at East Side Town has started as an intern, myself
included. And I spent two years making
coffee, cleaning toilets, wrapping cables unpaid before I
even did my first assistant session.
(21:10):
And you know, that is the harsh reality of working recording
studios now that a lot of interns don't understand.
And you know, I don't want to start bitching, but today's
today's generation of kids are extremely entitled and lazy and
they think everything should be handed to them.
And that's just not going to, that's not going to be the case
(21:32):
in a recording studio. So if that's what they want,
they won't be finding they they won't be going very far.
That's an interesting point too.I think there's a lot of
individualism that's been happening over the course of,
you know, decades. People have become a little bit
more focused about themselves and not necessarily as the
whole. And I think.
(21:53):
That has a lot to do with that, you know.
So I in that context, you know, it's saying learn to be just a
better team player, be a part ofsomething bigger than just
yourself, right? And you know, the menial task,
quote UN quote, of making coffeeis a very important one because
(22:13):
what it means is that the clientwill have a service where they
can always expect a, a hot cup of Joe in the morning right
before the session or in the middle of their session.
They need to pick me up. You're there to help them,
right? And yeah, so that's such an
important role. And I don't think people really
understand that. They think, oh, I gotta make
(22:34):
coffee. And it's like, well, yeah, well,
that's part of being a team player, right?
Well, when I when I have new interns, I always try to explain
to them that the recording studio is like a hotel.
And so when the artist arrived, the artist is the guest.
And we have to provide a certainlevel of service to that guest.
(22:55):
And the artist is entering a sacred space, wants his or her
privacy, wants to feel at home. And so the recording studio for
an artist, from the point of view of interns, should really
be handled like it's a hotel. People walk in, they want their
privacy, they want to be able tomake their music without
(23:18):
external distractions. And yes.
Yeah, I, I, I agree with that wholeheartedly.
Yeah, it's a, it's a real mentalgame of preparing yourself to be
of service for, you know, the art.
I mean, that's really what it is.
We have to get out of the way ofthe artist so that they feel
(23:40):
open and vulnerable to do what means the most to them.
And if you're, if you're in a learning, you know, student
intern, if you're in a position right now and you're listening
to me and Mark talk about this, this is a really key development
that can help you move forward. I always say that this industry
(24:04):
is more than just music. It's it's really a people
industry making. Relationships.
Going in there, focusing on having even having like sort of
diplomatic skill sets in a way it's, it's it's a very important
part of being an engineer. It's a lot more than just your
technical prowess. And people forget that many
(24:26):
times. So, Mark, as now you're actually
also in a in a phase of of, you know, making your own studio at
the moment, right? Yeah.
Mirror Tone Studios, Which? No, wait, wait, wait.
It's not Mirror Tone. It's audio confidential Mirror
Mirror Tone is was the studio inthat building that we took over.
(24:48):
It's a studio that went out of business, but it was just a
podcast studio. And so we took over that space
and we're doing construction right now, as you know, and it's
going to be called Audio Confidential and it's going to
be the first, my first studio inNew York after 25 years here
working as the chief engineer atEast Side Sound.
(25:11):
And I'm, and by the way, I'm notleaving East Side Sound.
East Side Sound is much bigger than Audio Confidential and so
I'm going to continue being the chief engineer at the site Sound
and also have my own space, Audio Confidential where I could
produce records and do things like step and doom or whatever I
want to do. That's amazing.
Wow and and and and such a like a low key title.
(25:34):
I love it. Yeah.
Well, you know, and like I said before about the hotel,
everything that happens in recording studios is very
private. It's, you know, as engineers,
we're very privileged to have a window, literally and physically
speaking, into the creation of the art.
(25:55):
We're privileged to be there andbe able to witness that.
And so hence the name Audio Confidential.
Amazing, amazing. And your your your construction
is is entirely DIY. I mean, you guys are really
going in and doing all the acoustic treatment yourself,
isolation yourself. It's it's really, really such an
(26:17):
amazing thing. That is a rare sight to see,
especially in New York City because there's not a lot of new
commercial studios being built. So it's a wonderful chance.
I had the chance to actually go ahead and assist a little bit on
your construction. And I brought some students
along to kind of see what that was like.
And they walked away with like, oh, I am inspired.
(26:40):
They already started working on new concepts for their studio.
I was like, this is great. I love that.
So seeing this kind of, you know, event for them is, is, is
really, truly something special.I'm really happy that you were
able to make that happen for forthem.
So thank you so much. You're welcome.
And As for myself, I mean, you know, I'm, you know, I've been
(27:02):
doing this also for about maybe 15 years now and I've done my
own fair share of setup for, forstudios, a lot of a lot of
internal tech wiring and all that kind of stuff.
But when it comes to like real construction, man, there's very
few times when I've had the privilege of being a part of
that. The first time for me was
actually master disc. It was their, it was their
(27:26):
demolition actually. Oh wow.
So it was like back in 2013, I was, I was an Internet at the
studio and I was the. Last, you know that you were
working with Scott Hall. Yeah.
Oh awesome. I love Scott.
He's mastered so many records that I've made.
I think he's mastered over 100 records that I've made.
(27:46):
Oh yeah, Scott's amazing. And I was one of the few people
that had the chance of seeing the bare bones of Master Disc as
it was getting demolished. And Scott actually was the one
who gave me my first mastering signal chain as a template for
me to work off of. So I got a lot of love for
(28:08):
Scott. And he was, he was very adamant
of, of the seriousness of his craft.
He he not a lot of interns like to sit in the room with Scott
Hall, let's just put it that way.
Oh, I love sitting in the room with Scott.
I've, I've, I've had the chance several times.
You know, I worked with John Zorn for 18 years and made over
(28:32):
over 160 records for his record labeled Zadek and over 120
records just of John Zorn by John Zorn.
And all of those records were mastered by Scott Hall.
And so when Master Disc was still in the city, I have
assisted some of the mastering sessions for John Zorn Records.
(28:53):
I had recorded in Mixed and thenlater when he moved up to
Peekskill, where he is now, I once visited and saw his new
facility and you know, he's a master, He knows exactly what
he's doing. And he also cuts vinyl, which is
an amazing thing to be able to witness.
So I've been very fortunate and I have a lot of love for Scott.
(29:15):
Well, you know, Scott also has this interesting idea of a
recording session being completely mixed and mastered
right on the spot and cut. Yeah, that's that's something
that I haven't seen a lot maybe at all.
Maybe he's the only person that I've actually ever seen try and
do that. Have you ever tried doing
(29:35):
something along those lines withScott at any point?
Not with Scott and not ever I'vewe've talked about it with
Scott. I, we were, we were considering
bringing one of these lathes lathes to the studio and
basically doing, doing a direct to disk session.
(29:56):
And I would love to do that because I love commitment.
Sadly, commitment is something that is missing in today's
artists. And so that's what usually where
where we run into issues is withthe artists because the artists
are too afraid to commit to a take that's being played right
(30:17):
there and then. They want to their to use now to
having the option to go back andlisten to having to option the
option to overdub, to having theoption to fix.
Unfortunately, Pro Tools has made people, you know, spoiled
in that sense, and so the artists are the one that don't
(30:38):
want to do to direct to disc. Me as an engineer, I would love
to do it. I love the pressure, I love the
challenge, and I love being ableto be 100% entirely focused on
what you were doing and putting it to disc and committing to it.
Yes, I think that's a beautiful thing.
It's, I mean, definitely in, in,in a world like metal, we don't
(31:04):
get nearly enough of that. I mean, you, you, you don't get
the sounds of like Judas Priest or Ozzy Osbourne by editing the
hell out of it. I mean you, you have good
players who come in and they know their parts and they
capture it and it's, it is what it is.
(31:25):
Well, I mean I disagree. Nowadays a lot of metal bands,
you know, do they do a lot of triggers editing, a lot of them
do a lot to sound very tight and, and super aggressive.
But you know, I went to see Meshuga the other nights two
nights ago and they deliver. I'm sure they're on a click.
(31:47):
I don't know if they have any tracks playing in the
background, but they they deliver a massive show and
they're super tight and super precise and you know, if they do
it live, that means they could do it in the studio if they
wanted to. So there are bands who can pull
it off for sure. Yeah, well, that's that's,
that's definitely a good point. Meshuga is, but those guys are
(32:09):
like machines too. Well, and that's what, well, it
comes down, like I said earlier,to preparation.
You know, me, me as an engineer,I have to be prepared for the
artist, but so does the artist. The artist needs to go and do
tons of rehearsals before going into the studio.
That's how you ensure everyone is prepared and knows what's
coming and knows how to deliver.And if you have enough
(32:31):
preparation in the rehearsal space, then you go to the studio
and you bang it out. Yeah.
And that's, that's a great that if anything from this
conversation, it's all about preparation.
All about preparation. All about preparation and Mark,
this has been a fantastic conversation.
I'm really, really happy we had the chance to walk talk about
(32:53):
this. There have been a couple
technical difficulties trying toget this going, but that's OK.
We made it work and I am so happy we got to spend the time.
Mark, you, you're, you're a great friend and a great
educator as well. You have been helping people
cross the line when it comes to getting into the audio industry
for a long time. And you continue to still push
(33:15):
the boundaries of what we know as the standard.
So love that. And Mark, is there any last, you
know, things you'd like to sharewith the audience?
Any project you've been working on or any words you want to
leave them with? Yeah, I think since we're
talking about upcoming projects,I will mention the Ramones
(33:36):
tribute record, which I producedfor the same record label that
did Step and Doom. In fact, it's the Gen.
The genesis of the Ramones tribute record was Step and Doom
because Magnetic Guy does these series is called Redux where
they take a band and they, they have multiple bands playing
(33:57):
covers of the all the songs in the order of the debut record of
that band. And they, and then they do a
best off as well. Usually it's a double release.
So they had asked me as Stephen Doom whether I wanted to do a
cover of 4th of July by Soundgarden, which I of course I
jumped at. And I I I did it in the Stephen
(34:19):
Doom way, meaning drums, 12 string bass.
But then I had Alan Johannes addguitars and I asked Matt
Cameron, the original drummer ofSoundgarden to play the drums.
Except I did my version at like 60 BPM instead of the original
which is more like 110 or 120 I forget.
(34:39):
So Matt graciously agreed to do it.
Alan played some killer guitars and then I had two throat
singers sing the part, plus a singer of a Ukrainian metal band
singing the lead vocals. And that was my version of Step
of the Step and Doom version of 4th of July.
You can check that out online. It's out there now.
(35:02):
It came out so great, so well that the label and I started
talking about me producing an entire one of these Redox Series
records and the name Ramones came up and I jumped at that
opportunity because everyone loves the Ramones.
It's a, it's an easy sell to go to a band and be like, do you
(35:22):
want to do a Ramones cover? Because they've been so
influential in so many ways. And So what I did is, and I took
a page out of the lessons I've learned from one of my mentors,
which is Hal Willner, amazing producer.
If you don't know, check out Halwillner.com.
He died of COVID, unfortunately,but I worked with him for 10
years. He was also the producer of Lou
(35:43):
Reed. And Hal was very special in
putting together people from different walks of life, from
different genres, and making them play together.
A version that's a completely new version of something.
I've done many records and concerts with Hal.
In that vein, I decided to approach the Ramones tribute
(36:04):
record and so I have very weird combinations like Napalm Death
together with Thurston Moore of Sonic Youth or Boybot together
with JG Terrell of Fetus and Anorexia, all these weird
pairings. The record is coming out on June
the 6th on Magda Guy. It is called Ramon's Redux, and
(36:28):
actually it's called Mark Yourcelli Presents Ramones Redux
because it's really my production in the sense of
having the idea of putting thesebands together.
There's 60 artists playing 30 songs by the Ramones.
I'm very proud of the record, soI hope you can check it out.
There's only a few, A few singles have already been
released, so you can check them out online, but the full record
(36:49):
comes out June 6th and if you'rein town, June 1st.
And, and by town, I mean New York City.
There will be still unannounced,but there will be a record
release party at the Band Cafe in Brooklyn on June 1st.
Oh well, I gotta see if I can goand attend that.
That sounds like a really good time man.
You're all invited. Amazing.
(37:12):
Well, Mark, this has been again,just an amazing conversation.
And for those of you guys who are also seeking to learn more
about this kind of stuff, Metal Mastermind is a resource for
Rocket metal musicians about allof this kind of stuff.
So thanks again, Mark. This has been again, a pleasure.
And maybe one day in the future,we'll have another one of these
(37:32):
again. Absolutely.
I'd love to come back anytime and please reach, you know, stay
in touch. We can talk about the new studio
when it will be off open Audio Confidential should open
probably in June, July work. We have a Neve console going in
in June and we have a piano going in in July.
So we'll be ready. Amazing.
(37:55):
Thank you everybody and have a great day.
Thank you.
Hi everybody, and welcome to another episode of Metal
Mastermind. I'm your host, Ken Candelas, and
I have with me a very special guest today.
It is Mark Urcelli, three time award-winning for Grammys.
I'm talking about Grammys, threetime Grammy award-winning
engineer and also a fabulous friend, someone who's really
(00:35):
experienced in this industry. Mark, welcome to the Metal
Mastermind podcast. How are you doing, my friend?
I'm doing great. Thank you for having me, Ken.
Awesome at some context, Mark has worked with some of the
biggest artists around the world.
He's been to places like Abbey Road, he's worked with John
Zorn, Lou Reed, some Foo Fighters.
(00:56):
He even does the Grammy event live in live sound.
So Mark, you've had quite a a career to work with and you
know, why don't you just start off by talking about who you
are, what you do, what you like to do in your spare time and all
that good stuff? Yeah, variety is the spice of
(01:20):
life, so I like to do a lot of different things, which is why
my career has become so varied. I go from doing live sounds to
doing studio work, and when I dodo studio work or live sound, I
go from doing metal to doing jazz to doing classical music
and opera and everything in between.
Really. Everything is fair game pretty
(01:41):
much. I don't do a lot of hip hop and
R and BI tend to work on the genres that I'm that I've
listened to all my life because that feels like familiar
grounds. And then I, you know, I always
know what to do. And yeah, like you said, I've,
I've worked with a lot of great artists.
I've been very fortunate in thatregard.
(02:04):
But it's not just luck, it's a lot of hard work.
I've been doing this for 30 plusyears now.
I opened my first recording studio when I was 17 years old
and I still lived in Italy and Iworked there and made a lot of
punk hardcore records. Then eventually later moved to
the States and started doing a lot of jazz records because in
(02:26):
New York jazz is one of the biggest scenes.
But you know, I come from metal.I used to let used to listen to
metal as a kid, and so I've eventually gone back,
gravitated, gravitated back to metal.
And so metal is now in my life as much as jazz and as much as
some other genres are, and I enjoy it very much.
(02:47):
That's amazing. Yeah, I was just before we got
on this recording, I was just making a note of your vinyl
collection there, which is awesome.
And was vinyl for you super important growing up, or is that
something you acquired over time?
I acquired it over time, meaningthat in my most formative youth
(03:08):
years, like, you know, I'm 48. So when I was between 15 and 20,
which is where most of my recordcollection grew, it was mostly
CDs and cassettes. At the time I did have a small
vinyl collection but I I went back to vinyl more later more in
(03:31):
New York. My vinyl collection in New York
is much bigger than mine. My vinyl collection back home in
Italy, whereas my CD collection is I have like 5000 CDs back in
my parents basement from when I was a kid and like 400
cassettes. But now it's now it's mostly
vinyl when I buy physical. Now it just why?
(03:55):
Why is that? Is that?
Is it because of the, you know, tangible experience with vinyl,
or is it some other reason? I mean, for me to be fully
transparent, it started with a record label which you see you
saw back there, there's a label called Nouvelle Records which
makes jazz vinyl only releases. And I've, I'm their engineer,
(04:19):
I've recorded over 40 or 50 of their albums.
And because they were making these final only releases, I
wanted a way to listen to them. And so I, and, and so I bought a
turntable and then I was like, well, now I have a turntable and
you get some more vinyl and, andthe tangibility of the format
(04:39):
definitely has something to do with it.
I, I do very much enjoy holding it, you know, reading the
credits, having a larger physical picture of everything.
It's a great thing. The only thing I don't like
about Lion Vinyl is having to switch sides.
Yeah, well, there's only so muchwe can love and then have to
(05:00):
take away another experience. Same thing with like, tape.
Tape sounds great, but it's also, you know, you don't really
get that much time to record with it either.
So but that's a that's very, very cool.
I noticed that in the overall trend of the industry, vinyl has
definitely had a big resurgence.So it's such a cool thing to see
that people want to get more hands on with music.
(05:26):
And I think it's a beautiful thing.
And it's also something that I, I've also noticed with your own
project Step in Doom, which is avery, very totally like weird
like out there idea of working with like do metal and like
Mongolian throat singing. And it's got such a really cool
(05:47):
thing to it. I was listening to it before the
podcast just to sort of freshen myself on it.
I really like track 3. That's a really good one.
And yeah, I thought it was like such a cool ambiance to have
around. I can, I can imagine like just
putting the needle down on Step and Doom and just letting it
rock for a bit and just feeling the vibes with a good couple of
(06:08):
friends. Nice work there.
Do you want to talk a little bitactually about maybe what
sparked the creativity of Step and Doom?
So Step and Doom is a project that I started before the
pandemic and I wanted to join mylove for doom metal, which is
the genre within the metal genres that I the sub genre that
(06:31):
I may maybe like the most, and my love for throat singing.
For those who don't know, throatsinging is a vocal technique
where you create overtones and and have multiple tones going at
the same time created with your vocal cords.
And it's a technique that was basically, you know, is a full
(06:53):
tradition of tuba, Mongolia and Siberia primarily, although it's
also practiced in some areas, remote areas of Italy and South
Africa. I've, I've known this technique
for a long time, always loved the way it sounded and always
thought it would be really greattogether with metal.
So I decided to do that just that I put that together, I
played drums and bass, recorded,mixed and produced a record.
(07:16):
And then I asked metal guitar players like from from bands
like Sleep High On Fire, Neurosis, Paradise Lost,
etcetera, etcetera, to be a partof this record and add guitars,
in some cases, keyboards or percussion, stuff like that.
And so the record came out, cametogether.
(07:36):
It's, I'm very proud of it. And Magnetic Eye, which is a
labeling in California and Germany, put it out and made a
beautiful packaging with vinyl, a box.
I mean there's also regular CD and regular vial versions and of
course digital download, but thebeautiful box set version you
can buy for $90.00 has the vinyl, A7 inch limited edition
(08:01):
vinyl, a book with photos of these throat singers as well as
the musicians and photos of Tu in Mongolia.
I hired 2 photographers to do and then some posters.
So it's a really amazing box that I recommend you check out.
You know, that's, that's so incredible because, you know,
part of this, like I, I intendedto discuss about, you know,
(08:24):
artistry and working with artists and, you know, studio
ownership. But you know, I'm, I'm really
curious about this now because this approach to making music
in, in, in a much more global fashion was something that's
always intriguing to me. I always found that even for
example, writing in another language lyrics, very, very
(08:45):
helpful way to understand intonation and how words fit
with rhythms and all this sort of thing.
And I'm just curious about with with the case of throat singing
and how that's how that's used. Is it is it the foundation of
your structure that you're you're moving forward with the
music? Or was it, you know, secondary
(09:06):
to the performance that you played on your guitars and
drums? Like what was that like?
And how are you going about mixing this?
What would be a very acoustic, totally far out genre of music
that is now infused with doom metal here.
Yeah, I mean the wreck I I wrotethe record myself and I wrote it
(09:29):
on a bass, but a particular instrument, which is a 12 string
bass, I'm very enamored of that instrument.
It's it's, it's, it's basically for 4 strings, like a regular
bass, but every string has threestrings, a low string and two
high strings. So when you hit one note, it
sounds like you have a chorus and an octave are going but
(09:50):
straight out of the bass. So imagine adding distortion to
that. It's a humongous sound.
Before I even added guitars, therecord already sounded huge, you
know, And then I, my initial idea was to record drums myself
and then as a demo and then havethem replaced by a drummer.
But it, you know, eventually I really liked what, what I was,
(10:13):
what I had recorded because it was exactly what I had in mind.
And I'm not a great drummer, butI'm a great Pro Tools editor.
And so I fixed myself up to makeme make me sound perfectly on
time with my bass playing, whichis also not that great.
But I'm a good producer. I'm not that great a musician on
instruments, but that was the foundation of the record.
(10:36):
The guitars came later and the throat singers came later.
And to answer your question about lyrics, I didn't want to
put any kind of limitation or even direction onto the throat
singers. So I just said you can sing
about whatever you want. And they, they all sang as far
as I know, because I don't speakto the nor Mongolian or Siberian
(10:59):
or Russian. As far as I know they were, I
was told all the lyrics are about their traditional lyrics.
So they're about fire and natureand birds and horses.
And, you know, they go eagle hunting.
There's great pictures in the book I mentioned of them going
there on horses, holding eagles in one hand.
(11:22):
And they go and hunt for food with those eagles that are
trained to go get the food and bring it back.
So it's, they're very special traditions.
These, some of them are nomads. You know, they move in yurts,
they're called these Mongolian tents.
So it's, it's a, there's an amazing tradition back there.
And the book kind of tries to give a glimpse of that.
(11:45):
Amazing. I love that.
Very culturally diverse and focused on art and all of this
is I feel like there there needsto be more of this kind of
stuff. Let me grab, let me grab the
record so I can show you what I'm talking about.
Absolutely. Yeah, let's see it.
(12:10):
There it is. Look at this all.
Right. This this is the box set that I
was talking about and there's. What bad ass?
There's one of those hunters with the eagle on the horse and
these are all pictures that I basically hired A photographer
(12:30):
to take. So then inside the box set there
is of course the vinyl which is this, which you can also buy buy
as a single version of vinyl with a beautiful spray.
Oh, look at that. Oh my gosh.
These are all photos from Mongolia.
Then there's a bunch of posters.There's the seven inch that I
mentioned, which has 2 limited edition versions only available
(12:55):
in the seven inch. And then there's this beautiful
book which has a lot of great photos, but I'll show you the
posters. So these are these are the eagle
hunters. Gorgeous.
These are the yurts I was talking about.
So this is what they live in. And these are, you know, nomads.
(13:20):
These are again, those eagle hunters on horses.
So these are some of the images.And then of course, of course,
there's images of all the musicians.
So if you, you know, if you go through the book, you'll see
pictures of people living in thetents.
But like in, in further down, you know, you'll see pictures of
(13:43):
the musicians like that. You know there's.
That's gorgeous, I love the package.
The packaging is amazing. I'm so proud of this record.
You know magnetic guy did a magnet a magnificent job on on
this. So let me ask you this question,
(14:03):
Mark. You know, you said that this was
something that sort of kind of came out of like the pandemic in
a way. And I'm wondering how such an
event has changed your approach to production.
It hasn't really changed anything.
It was just a pause, a forced pause, but it has slowed me down
(14:25):
for a minute but also has given me the opportunity to finish the
record. The record I started way before
the pandemic, so it's not reallya pandemic project, but I was
able to finish it because I had time during the pandemic.
I'm usually, thankfully and I'm very grateful for this,
extremely busy and have a very hard time finding time for my
own projects. But in that forced period of
(14:50):
pausing that the pandemic gave us gave us, I basically picked
up all things that I never had time to finish.
And that was one of them at the top of the list.
Yeah, I can relate to that too. I, I, I, I had my own project
also kind of take off because ofthe pandemic.
And I'm wondering because of, you know, artistry, right?
(15:10):
People having the time to reflect and focus on their art,
maybe. Has that changed how artists
maybe view coming to the studio or have they changed priorities
in your opinion? I don't know if if they've
changed priorities. I mean, you know, artists have
everyone has changed with the pandemic in a way from one side.
(15:33):
From the other side, I feel likepeople have have short historic
memory and so they've already moved on and forgot about the
pandemic. So, you know, the the time
during the pandemic was interesting making records with
masks, especially when you had horn players.
It was it was a challenge. And you know, I remember the
times where we had to test before doing a session, all of
(15:56):
that. I'm very glad that's all over
and behind us. And hopefully we won't
experience another one in our lifetime, although I have my
doubts. Well, when a when an artist
comes into your your studio, what, what is that experience
usually like for them? Can you walk me through it?
Yeah, I mean, most artists know what what to expect from a
(16:21):
studio because they've done it before.
Thankfully at my in in my world,at my level, I work with artists
that have, you know, have been recording for many years.
And so they know what to expect and I ask them what they want to
do and, and I prepare for them. I'm a big fan of preparation, of
knowing in advance what's going to happen so that I can make
(16:43):
sure everyone's taken care of and happy and, and can do their
best work. And so I prepare, I set up
instruments and, and set up microphones and get levels ahead
of time so that they, when they can walk, when they walk in,
they can Simply put on headphones and pretty much start
recording. That's what I strive for.
(17:05):
It doesn't always happen becausethere's always last minute
changes or additions, things they didn't tell me about or
things they want to move, whatever.
But I go with the flow. That's what you have to do when
you're an engineer, And then I just try to make him feel
comfortable so they can do theirwork.
Yeah, it's it's quite a psychological game, so.
Very much so, yeah. You know, I, I, I understand
(17:28):
that, you know, the technical aspect of, of, you know, being
an engineer and doing all of that is, is one thing, but it
always in, in what I've learned,it said it, it really comes down
to just being with the person that you enjoy working with and
you know, in your career, you, you've done, you know, quite a
lot of networking and making connections and all that kind of
stuff. And I, I, I understand that, you
(17:50):
know, in that world you are, in addition to your, your
engineering prowess, you basically have to make sure that
everybody there likes each other, likes working with each
other, likes feeling, you know, safe in their environment.
Do you still ever get like jitters and stuff like that when
(18:11):
you work with high profile artists?
Yeah, I mean, it certainly has happened.
It's not so much about jitter, it's not so much jitters, but
it's it's more like that sense of like I can't mess up.
These people have, you know, they're used to a very high
standards and they have no patience for.
(18:31):
That's why I like preparation. You know, when I worked with you
2IN the studio, they came at sixPMI believe I got there at 10
AM. So I had those 8 hours.
I mean, it was a special situation because we were using
the place that had been, was a studio, but wasn't anymore a
commercial studio. So we had to move furniture and
(18:52):
do a lot of other things you normally wouldn't have to do on
a recording session. But yeah, you know, I, I, I make
sure that I'm 100% or 150% prepared so that whenever they
get there, there's no questions.That's a, that's a really good
tip. And as, as an educator, I, I,
(19:15):
I've sent some interns your way.And do you have any advice for
people who are looking to internat a studio?
Is there any general best practice that you would say?
Always keep these in mind. Well, one thing I'll tell you,
one thing that puts me off when I get interns resumes is them
(19:39):
boasting about their Pro Tools promise and not realizing that
they won't even be touching Pro Tools for a long time if they
start an internship. So I really want my interns to
understand signal flow, to understand game structure and to
understand that they're there tofacilitate the sessions that are
(20:01):
going to happen. So I'm more interested in them
being able to know how to handlean expensive microphone set up,
a microphone, breakdown a microphone using care than not,
them knowing being being fast, or knowing all the shortcuts in
Pro Tools because they won't be using Pro Tools when they start
intern interning. And really, as far as bad as
(20:25):
that sounds, I'm more interestedin them knowing how to make
coffee because that that is whatthey'll be making, you know, on
an internship at the beginning. All the interns that I've worked
for me under me at East Side Sound, which is the studio where
I'm chief engineer of in New York, they've all of those who
have made it and I made it. I mean, that have graduated from
(20:48):
being interns to being assistantand starting, you know, to get
paid to being engineers. Everyone that by the way, at
works at East Side Town has started as an intern, myself
included. And I spent two years making
coffee, cleaning toilets, wrapping cables unpaid before I
even did my first assistant session.
(21:10):
And you know, that is the harsh reality of working recording
studios now that a lot of interns don't understand.
And you know, I don't want to start bitching, but today's
today's generation of kids are extremely entitled and lazy and
they think everything should be handed to them.
And that's just not going to, that's not going to be the case
(21:32):
in a recording studio. So if that's what they want,
they won't be finding they they won't be going very far.
That's an interesting point too.I think there's a lot of
individualism that's been happening over the course of,
you know, decades. People have become a little bit
more focused about themselves and not necessarily as the
whole. And I think.
(21:53):
That has a lot to do with that, you know.
So I in that context, you know, it's saying learn to be just a
better team player, be a part ofsomething bigger than just
yourself, right? And you know, the menial task,
quote UN quote, of making coffeeis a very important one because
(22:13):
what it means is that the clientwill have a service where they
can always expect a, a hot cup of Joe in the morning right
before the session or in the middle of their session.
They need to pick me up. You're there to help them,
right? And yeah, so that's such an
important role. And I don't think people really
understand that. They think, oh, I gotta make
(22:34):
coffee. And it's like, well, yeah, well,
that's part of being a team player, right?
Well, when I when I have new interns, I always try to explain
to them that the recording studio is like a hotel.
And so when the artist arrived, the artist is the guest.
And we have to provide a certainlevel of service to that guest.
(22:55):
And the artist is entering a sacred space, wants his or her
privacy, wants to feel at home. And so the recording studio for
an artist, from the point of view of interns, should really
be handled like it's a hotel. People walk in, they want their
privacy, they want to be able tomake their music without
(23:18):
external distractions. And yes.
Yeah, I, I, I agree with that wholeheartedly.
Yeah, it's a, it's a real mentalgame of preparing yourself to be
of service for, you know, the art.
I mean, that's really what it is.
We have to get out of the way ofthe artist so that they feel
(23:40):
open and vulnerable to do what means the most to them.
And if you're, if you're in a learning, you know, student
intern, if you're in a position right now and you're listening
to me and Mark talk about this, this is a really key development
that can help you move forward. I always say that this industry
(24:04):
is more than just music. It's it's really a people
industry making. Relationships.
Going in there, focusing on having even having like sort of
diplomatic skill sets in a way it's, it's it's a very important
part of being an engineer. It's a lot more than just your
technical prowess. And people forget that many
(24:26):
times. So, Mark, as now you're actually
also in a in a phase of of, you know, making your own studio at
the moment, right? Yeah.
Mirror Tone Studios, Which? No, wait, wait, wait.
It's not Mirror Tone. It's audio confidential Mirror
Mirror Tone is was the studio inthat building that we took over.
(24:48):
It's a studio that went out of business, but it was just a
podcast studio. And so we took over that space
and we're doing construction right now, as you know, and it's
going to be called Audio Confidential and it's going to
be the first, my first studio inNew York after 25 years here
working as the chief engineer atEast Side Sound.
(25:11):
And I'm, and by the way, I'm notleaving East Side Sound.
East Side Sound is much bigger than Audio Confidential and so
I'm going to continue being the chief engineer at the site Sound
and also have my own space, Audio Confidential where I could
produce records and do things like step and doom or whatever I
want to do. That's amazing.
Wow and and and and such a like a low key title.
(25:34):
I love it. Yeah.
Well, you know, and like I said before about the hotel,
everything that happens in recording studios is very
private. It's, you know, as engineers,
we're very privileged to have a window, literally and physically
speaking, into the creation of the art.
(25:55):
We're privileged to be there andbe able to witness that.
And so hence the name Audio Confidential.
Amazing, amazing. And your your your construction
is is entirely DIY. I mean, you guys are really
going in and doing all the acoustic treatment yourself,
isolation yourself. It's it's really, really such an
(26:17):
amazing thing. That is a rare sight to see,
especially in New York City because there's not a lot of new
commercial studios being built. So it's a wonderful chance.
I had the chance to actually go ahead and assist a little bit on
your construction. And I brought some students
along to kind of see what that was like.
And they walked away with like, oh, I am inspired.
(26:40):
They already started working on new concepts for their studio.
I was like, this is great. I love that.
So seeing this kind of, you know, event for them is, is, is
really, truly something special.I'm really happy that you were
able to make that happen for forthem.
So thank you so much. You're welcome.
And As for myself, I mean, you know, I'm, you know, I've been
(27:02):
doing this also for about maybe 15 years now and I've done my
own fair share of setup for, forstudios, a lot of a lot of
internal tech wiring and all that kind of stuff.
But when it comes to like real construction, man, there's very
few times when I've had the privilege of being a part of
that. The first time for me was
actually master disc. It was their, it was their
(27:26):
demolition actually. Oh wow.
So it was like back in 2013, I was, I was an Internet at the
studio and I was the. Last, you know that you were
working with Scott Hall. Yeah.
Oh awesome. I love Scott.
He's mastered so many records that I've made.
I think he's mastered over 100 records that I've made.
(27:46):
Oh yeah, Scott's amazing. And I was one of the few people
that had the chance of seeing the bare bones of Master Disc as
it was getting demolished. And Scott actually was the one
who gave me my first mastering signal chain as a template for
me to work off of. So I got a lot of love for
(28:08):
Scott. And he was, he was very adamant
of, of the seriousness of his craft.
He he not a lot of interns like to sit in the room with Scott
Hall, let's just put it that way.
Oh, I love sitting in the room with Scott.
I've, I've, I've had the chance several times.
You know, I worked with John Zorn for 18 years and made over
(28:32):
over 160 records for his record labeled Zadek and over 120
records just of John Zorn by John Zorn.
And all of those records were mastered by Scott Hall.
And so when Master Disc was still in the city, I have
assisted some of the mastering sessions for John Zorn Records.
(28:53):
I had recorded in Mixed and thenlater when he moved up to
Peekskill, where he is now, I once visited and saw his new
facility and you know, he's a master, He knows exactly what
he's doing. And he also cuts vinyl, which is
an amazing thing to be able to witness.
So I've been very fortunate and I have a lot of love for Scott.
(29:15):
Well, you know, Scott also has this interesting idea of a
recording session being completely mixed and mastered
right on the spot and cut. Yeah, that's that's something
that I haven't seen a lot maybe at all.
Maybe he's the only person that I've actually ever seen try and
do that. Have you ever tried doing
(29:35):
something along those lines withScott at any point?
Not with Scott and not ever I'vewe've talked about it with
Scott. I, we were, we were considering
bringing one of these lathes lathes to the studio and
basically doing, doing a direct to disk session.
(29:56):
And I would love to do that because I love commitment.
Sadly, commitment is something that is missing in today's
artists. And so that's what usually where
where we run into issues is withthe artists because the artists
are too afraid to commit to a take that's being played right
(30:17):
there and then. They want to their to use now to
having the option to go back andlisten to having to option the
option to overdub, to having theoption to fix.
Unfortunately, Pro Tools has made people, you know, spoiled
in that sense, and so the artists are the one that don't
(30:38):
want to do to direct to disc. Me as an engineer, I would love
to do it. I love the pressure, I love the
challenge, and I love being ableto be 100% entirely focused on
what you were doing and putting it to disc and committing to it.
Yes, I think that's a beautiful thing.
It's, I mean, definitely in, in,in a world like metal, we don't
(31:04):
get nearly enough of that. I mean, you, you, you don't get
the sounds of like Judas Priest or Ozzy Osbourne by editing the
hell out of it. I mean you, you have good
players who come in and they know their parts and they
capture it and it's, it is what it is.
(31:25):
Well, I mean I disagree. Nowadays a lot of metal bands,
you know, do they do a lot of triggers editing, a lot of them
do a lot to sound very tight and, and super aggressive.
But you know, I went to see Meshuga the other nights two
nights ago and they deliver. I'm sure they're on a click.
(31:47):
I don't know if they have any tracks playing in the
background, but they they deliver a massive show and
they're super tight and super precise and you know, if they do
it live, that means they could do it in the studio if they
wanted to. So there are bands who can pull
it off for sure. Yeah, well, that's that's,
that's definitely a good point. Meshuga is, but those guys are
(32:09):
like machines too. Well, and that's what, well, it
comes down, like I said earlier,to preparation.
You know, me, me as an engineer,I have to be prepared for the
artist, but so does the artist. The artist needs to go and do
tons of rehearsals before going into the studio.
That's how you ensure everyone is prepared and knows what's
coming and knows how to deliver.And if you have enough
(32:31):
preparation in the rehearsal space, then you go to the studio
and you bang it out. Yeah.
And that's, that's a great that if anything from this
conversation, it's all about preparation.
All about preparation. All about preparation and Mark,
this has been a fantastic conversation.
I'm really, really happy we had the chance to walk talk about
(32:53):
this. There have been a couple
technical difficulties trying toget this going, but that's OK.
We made it work and I am so happy we got to spend the time.
Mark, you, you're, you're a great friend and a great
educator as well. You have been helping people
cross the line when it comes to getting into the audio industry
for a long time. And you continue to still push
(33:15):
the boundaries of what we know as the standard.
So love that. And Mark, is there any last, you
know, things you'd like to sharewith the audience?
Any project you've been working on or any words you want to
leave them with? Yeah, I think since we're
talking about upcoming projects,I will mention the Ramones
(33:36):
tribute record, which I producedfor the same record label that
did Step and Doom. In fact, it's the Gen.
The genesis of the Ramones tribute record was Step and Doom
because Magnetic Guy does these series is called Redux where
they take a band and they, they have multiple bands playing
(33:57):
covers of the all the songs in the order of the debut record of
that band. And they, and then they do a
best off as well. Usually it's a double release.
So they had asked me as Stephen Doom whether I wanted to do a
cover of 4th of July by Soundgarden, which I of course I
jumped at. And I I I did it in the Stephen
(34:19):
Doom way, meaning drums, 12 string bass.
But then I had Alan Johannes addguitars and I asked Matt
Cameron, the original drummer ofSoundgarden to play the drums.
Except I did my version at like 60 BPM instead of the original
which is more like 110 or 120 I forget.
(34:39):
So Matt graciously agreed to do it.
Alan played some killer guitars and then I had two throat
singers sing the part, plus a singer of a Ukrainian metal band
singing the lead vocals. And that was my version of Step
of the Step and Doom version of 4th of July.
You can check that out online. It's out there now.
(35:02):
It came out so great, so well that the label and I started
talking about me producing an entire one of these Redox Series
records and the name Ramones came up and I jumped at that
opportunity because everyone loves the Ramones.
It's a, it's an easy sell to go to a band and be like, do you
(35:22):
want to do a Ramones cover? Because they've been so
influential in so many ways. And So what I did is, and I took
a page out of the lessons I've learned from one of my mentors,
which is Hal Willner, amazing producer.
If you don't know, check out Halwillner.com.
He died of COVID, unfortunately,but I worked with him for 10
years. He was also the producer of Lou
(35:43):
Reed. And Hal was very special in
putting together people from different walks of life, from
different genres, and making them play together.
A version that's a completely new version of something.
I've done many records and concerts with Hal.
In that vein, I decided to approach the Ramones tribute
(36:04):
record and so I have very weird combinations like Napalm Death
together with Thurston Moore of Sonic Youth or Boybot together
with JG Terrell of Fetus and Anorexia, all these weird
pairings. The record is coming out on June
the 6th on Magda Guy. It is called Ramon's Redux, and
(36:28):
actually it's called Mark Yourcelli Presents Ramones Redux
because it's really my production in the sense of
having the idea of putting thesebands together.
There's 60 artists playing 30 songs by the Ramones.
I'm very proud of the record, soI hope you can check it out.
There's only a few, A few singles have already been
released, so you can check them out online, but the full record
(36:49):
comes out June 6th and if you'rein town, June 1st.
And, and by town, I mean New York City.
There will be still unannounced,but there will be a record
release party at the Band Cafe in Brooklyn on June 1st.
Oh well, I gotta see if I can goand attend that.
That sounds like a really good time man.
You're all invited. Amazing.
(37:12):
Well, Mark, this has been again,just an amazing conversation.
And for those of you guys who are also seeking to learn more
about this kind of stuff, Metal Mastermind is a resource for
Rocket metal musicians about allof this kind of stuff.
So thanks again, Mark. This has been again, a pleasure.
And maybe one day in the future,we'll have another one of these
(37:32):
again. Absolutely.
I'd love to come back anytime and please reach, you know, stay
in touch. We can talk about the new studio
when it will be off open Audio Confidential should open
probably in June, July work. We have a Neve console going in
in June and we have a piano going in in July.
So we'll be ready. Amazing.
(37:55):
Thank you everybody and have a great day.
Thank you.
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