July 19, 2019 • 35 mins
In the sixth episode of Metal Maven Podcast, I’m joined by singer and songwriter, Melissa VanFleet and we discuss her latest EP, Ode To The Dark and dive deep into her artistic process to reveal how music has helped her cope with OCD and anxiety.
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Metal Maven (00:02):
Welcome to the Metal Maven Podcast where we
explore and discover the processand passions of artists in the
Metal music and art community.
In episode six of Metal MavenPodcast, we're going to talk
about the stories we tell.
I'd like to welcome MelissaVanFleet, a crafter of dark
songs who sings them very well.
(00:24):
Melissa, I really appreciate youjoining me to share your
stories.
How are you?
Melissa VanFlee (00:29):
I'm doing very well.
Thank you so much for having meon here.
I listened to all the otherpodcasts and it's just– what
you're doing is brilliant.
So I'm very, very honored to beguest on your show.
Thank you.
Metal Maven (00:40):
Thank you.
So, before discussing thepresent and everything that's
happening currently with you,I'd like to go back to another
time and place.
You began creating music at avery young age and seem to be
drawn to it.
What pulled you in?
Where does your story begin?
Once upon a time, there was alittle girl named Melissa...
Melissa VanFlee (01:01):
And she was...
Let's see, addicted to MTV.
My favorite activity as atwo-year-old was standing on
this tiny little makeshift stageand I was two inches in front of
the TV, singing along with AliceCooper and Lita Ford into this
tiny little toy Fisher Pricemicrophone.
(01:22):
And I can vividly rememberpretending that I actually was
them performing on stage.
Like I told myself like,"You areAlice Cooper." And it's really
strange sounding.
But yeah, that was what I didall the time.
Really, every memory I have frommy childhood was accompanied by
some sort of music, whether itbe Metal, or R&B, which my mom
(01:43):
loved, or just anything, it wasjust constantly there and that
is really how my story began.
And then still how it is now.
Metal Maven (01:52):
Well, same here, which I feel we connect with a
lot.
I mean, I remember too, it'slike,"I want my MTV." It's like
they would play that all thetime– so fun.
I mean, it was always on in thebackground too, because my house
was always filled with music andif it's all right, I'd like to
speak with you about your fatherbecause I know he's a very
(02:15):
important part of your story andwhat you're currently doing.
Melissa VanFlee (02:18):
Yes, he is.
The reason that Heavy Metalmusic was instilled in me at
such a young age.
Some of my earliest memoriesinvolve my dad rocking me to
sleep to Ozzy's"Shot In TheDark." That was the song, that
was the one that was my lullabyat night, which I don't know why
that specific song, but it justreally, I guess spoke to me when
(02:41):
I was a newborn.
But he also would teach me namesof musicians and his favorite
bands.
I knew some of their namesbefore I even knew my neighbor's
names.
So yeah, it was just soimportant to him and it was just
passed right down to me.
And you know, it's funny becausemy mom was just talking today to
me about this and she said shehas a very distinct memory of
(03:04):
constantly telling my dad,"Youknow, turn the music down.
You know, this is just not gonnawork." But whenever I would cry,
Metal music was the only thingthat would make me fall asleep.
Like, you can put on SesameStreet, it would do nothing.
But the minute that I heard, youknow, the heavy guitars and
everything, I would just knockout just like that.
So yeah, it's reallyinteresting.
But yeah, so he definitelypulled me into that world and,
(03:27):
and I've never left so I'm very,very grateful for that.
Metal Maven (03:32):
You know, as I said before, same here.
I mean, my father would playguitar all the time and I was
listening to your cover of"Silent Lucidity" and I remember
him playing that intro andbehind him on the wall was
Ozzy's The Ultimate Sin albumposter.
So the recall was reallyspecific, so– and also, I would
(03:53):
like to mention that"SilentLucity" made me cry, so thanks
for that.
Melissa VanFlee (03:59):
I'm sorry!
Metal Maven (04:00):
No, no! It was so good.
I mean, it was a good cry andthen I realized what we should
be talking about together.
Melissa VanFlee (04:08):
Well, I'm glad to hear that.
I'm sorry, but I'm glad to hearthat it touched you, thank you.
Metal Maven (04:12):
No apologies needed.
But these Metal Lullabies andreinterpretations, are they a
way to encapsulate or triggerepisodic memories?
Essentially are these songs away for you to time travel?
Melissa VanFlee (04:28):
Yeah, absolutely.
I would say I am just sonostalgic.
And my favorite part about musicis how it can, you know,
transport you to another timeand place and just make you feel
the same exact feelings you feltwhen you first heard the song.
And I just think that's one ofthose things that's just so
special about it.
And yeah, I mean when I pickedthe songs that were on my Metal
(04:51):
Lullabies album, I of course,had a lot of help from my dad
here again because even if hedidn't say,"These are the songs
going on the record," it'sstill, I mean it was all of his
favorite songs.
So I mean it was certainly,certainly, certainly a way.
Every time I hear"Sleeping InThe Fire" by W.
A.S.P., for instance, now I havesome new memories since I played
(05:13):
it when I was touring Spain and,you know, I've done versions
with Doug Blair from W.A.S.P.
now, who plays lead guitar inW.A.S.P., but so there's some
new memories with the song, butit still takes me right back to,
you know, when my dad waslistening to Metal Shop in 1980
whatever year it was, 85 86 or87– I don't even know when.
(05:33):
But anyway, it still just takesme right back to those memories
and you know, it's just reallycool how now I can build off of
them.
But it's just, yeah, it'samazing.
Music is just such a powerful,amazing thing.
Metal Maven (05:46):
And was it your father that suggested you post
these reimaginations of songsonline?
Melissa VanFlee (05:52):
It was, yeah.
Because, you know, I never hadany, at the time I was doing
like Adele covers and justthings that I thought would be,
I don't know, I was listening tometal all the time, but I just
didn't want to be like too outthere at the time.
I was afraid of like kind ofventuring into that.
And then one day for hisbirthday I did the cover of
(06:15):
"Sleeping in the Fire"– thevideo, and that was a birthday
present, nobody was eversupposed to see it.
And then he said,"You know,you've got to put this up
there." He said,"You'd be crazynot to and what's the worst that
could happen?
Nobody would see it." And Ihonestly, that video has changed
my life.
It has absolutely open to somany doors that I never saw
(06:36):
coming and yeah, it truly– youknow this was really funny too
is my mom on the other hand waslike,"I don't know, I think you
should take that down," becauseshe always said that when she
thought I did something a littlemore like out of the box, she
wanted me to be safer.
But then now she's like,"Yeah,it's good you didn't take that
down." So it's kind of funnybecause she's not a huge metal
(06:59):
fan but she appreciates it.
But yeah, it was definitely, hereally pretty much forced me to
do it and I'm so glad that I didbecause through that I met my
booking agent, and I spoke withthe people that are in W.A.S.P.
now, and I've worked with DougBlair and that's actually– it
kind of helped in some way getme over to Spain on tour and
(07:22):
it's pretty cool.
It just really is important toget music out there and now we
can with the Internet and it'sjust brilliant how you're able
to do that.
Metal Maven (07:31):
Well, it's funny how your gift for your father
became an even greater gift foryou.
Melissa VanFlee (07:36):
Yeah, yeah definitely.
Metal Maven (07:37):
It's weird how it works out.
Melissa VanFlee (07:38):
Yeah, life is crazy.
Metal Maven (07:40):
Your versions are interesting because they make me
forget the original for a momentand it's refreshing because it
offers a way to re-experiencemusic that carries heavy
nostalgia.
Melissa VanFlee (07:50):
Very cool.
I'm glad to hear that.
Metal Maven (07:52):
So, when I was listening, sometimes I'm like,
"What am I listening to again?
Melissa VanFlee (07:59):
Oh wow!
Metal Maven (07:59):
And then I would get little memories of the
original, and then where I was.
So, it was a cool experience.
Melissa VanFlee (08:04):
Very cool.
I know family is a big part ofyour life and you know,
obviously your dad has helpedyou and brought you to this
moment where you're actuallyplaying your own metal music,
but you also have another aspectthat you have lived with and
this is your OCD and anxiety.
And, if I'm not being tooforward, what are your symptoms?
(08:29):
I know you can have obsessions,compulsions, or a mix of both.
What are your rituals?
When or how did this begin foryou?
I've never really spoken in alot of detail about this.
I'm a super private person–very, very private.
But I do feel like I kind ofwant to dig into this a little
bit more, and I think itactually might be a little bit
(08:50):
therapeutic to do so.
I certainly will talk about it.
You know, it's interestingbecause it's kind of going off
of the last topic we weretalking about.
My dad, I grew up with himhaving chronic illnesses and
problems.
He was a diabetic since he was17, he had a kidney transplant
when I was in fifth grade, hewas in a coma when I was in
third grade– they didn't know ifhe was going to come out of it.
(09:12):
They actually called the familyin and– he has had his leg
amputated.
He had, I mean, I could keepgoing.
And I don't want to do this forsympathy, but I mean, as you can
imagine, all of this starting–oh, that's let alone all of the
blood sugar, you know, times Icame home from places and he was
passed out and you know, I hadto give him a shot to bring his
(09:33):
blood sugar back up.
So, I mean, as you can imagine,you know, I know there's a lot
of people that deal with a lotof things and my heart just goes
out to everyone that has to dealwith anything.
But just speaking personally,you know, dealing with that from
when you're three or four yearsold and just kind of your whole
entire life not knowing what thenext day is going to bring.
(09:53):
I mean it's– my therapist and mypsychiatrist, they all say like,
"You know, it's pretty obviouswhy you have anxiety." Plus,
it's kind of inborn in me.
You know, it's a genetic thingas well.
But it definitely, I think a lotof that is also PTSD from
different experiences that Ihave.
Not to go too much off on atangent, but for instance, you
(10:17):
know, I would go now, even as a33 year old– if I go to the
hospital where, you know, someof these things happened with my
dad, I have panic attacks therebecause I am just always trying
to find all like,"Oh yeah, whatroom was this?
And this is where thishappened." And I'm actually
shaking right now talking aboutthis.
That's how, that's how seriousit is to me still.
(10:37):
And yeah, so I think a big partof that is from that, and I
actually used music when I waslittle.
I started with poetry and then Istarted having melody ideas and
I would kind of turn them intolyrics, and that is how I
started writing.
And it really, really helpedbecause I was an only child.
(10:58):
I didn't have a ton of friends,just by choice.
I think with what I was goingthrough with my dad I just felt
like at any second, somethingcould be taken away.
So I even applied that to myfriends.
Like, if I had a friend and Iwas having a good time at any
second that could just go away.
And I don't know if this ismaking any sense at all, but I'm
just completely talking off thetop of my head.
Metal Maven (11:15):
No, it totally does, so just keep on going.
Melissa VanFlee (11:19):
Okay.
But yeah, I just was alwaysafraid of something going away,
because that was just thatconstant fear that at any time–
so, you know, I've even hadpeople that have lost their
parents come to me and say,"Youknow, it was really hard dealing
with the loss of my dad.
But, you know, I don't know if Iwould be able to go through what
you went through– constant,constant, constant, you know,
(11:41):
forever."– until now– but yeah,as you can imagine, that brings
me to the anxiety and the OCD.
And I think the OCD was kind ofwhat naturally happened to help
me have sort of control in mylife because I didn't feel like
I could control anything.
And I remember when I was inabout fifth grade when all of
that was happening, my aunt gavemy dad her kidney and you know I
(12:05):
kind of felt like my life wasfalling apart anyway because
you're kind of at thatadolescent age where you're
really not comfortable any waywith anything.
Like everything is changingaround you, and you're changing,
and it's just reallyuncomfortable, and I feel like I
had a breakdown then and that'swhen I was like really starting
to– I just remember constantlyshaking and just, I don't know,
(12:27):
I didn't cry a lot because Ijust never felt comfortable
crying.
I just kind of kept everythingin.
But then I started playinginstruments and that changed my
life completely because then Iwas finally able to get out what
was inside and then that helpedme to kind of not have so much
inside.
My obsessions were always moreof the magical thinking, which
(12:50):
is like, I would for instance,look at a clock and only be
allowed to do things at certaintimes.
I would have like magic numbersand if it was on an unlucky or
lucky number, and that sort ofthing, which I'm sure you know,
you can kind of understand howthat would be hard to get things
done because I would sit forinstance on my computer for an
hour waiting for a certain timethat I could save a document, or
(13:13):
something.
So I mean, it's just that sortof thing.
A lot of, you know, undoing andredoing.
Like, I would walk into a room,walk back out, and then walk
back in.
Just really looks so silly toanybody else, I'm sure.
But I tried to keep all that inas well.
But I would say– I could keepgoing on about the rituals, but
I would say last year at thistime, I had experienced some
(13:36):
loss in the family.
People you know, kind of feltlike I was losing control again.
And I kind of had a breakdownaround this time last year, and
it was the worst that I have hadyet.
And I thought, it was honestlylike when you hear like people
having a mental breakdown it'skind of like that.
And I just didn't know what todo.
(13:57):
So I went and I have to say I'ma super huge advocate for
medicating yourself if you haveany disorder like this because
I'm on a very, very small doseof something and it's just
enough for me to still feel likemyself, but to be able to get
through daily life.
So with that being said, I wasworried about going on
(14:21):
medication because I thought,you know, I was a little bit
concerned that maybe it wouldalter my creativity and it would
maybe, because all of my writingis from such a dark place.
I actually feel like it's easierto write now because it's not,
my head isn't like,"Oh, youcan't write that word because
that word can't be next to thisword," and you know, all those
silly OCD type things.
(14:42):
So, it really is under controlright now.
But that's not to say, thatsomething might not happen later
on.
But, that's pretty much mystory.
Metal Maven (14:48):
Well, I was curious because I had read that this was
your situation and whenlistening to Ode to the Dark, it
seems like you're immersinglisteners into your mental
state.
So how did you channel thosefeelings inside into telling
(15:09):
this story in support of yourmental health?
Melissa VanFlee (15:12):
You know, it's interesting because when I was
writing the songs on Ode to theDark, I initially thought they
were from a biographicalstandpoint, because I was
thinking about maybe stories Ihad read, or stories I had heard
about other things.
And then, as I was coming out ofthis dark mental place that I
was in when I was writing, Irealized they were completely
inspired by my own encounterswith anxiety and OCD.
(15:34):
And I didn't even realize itbecause I was just so deep into
it when I was writing.
So yeah, they were 100% aboutwhat I was going through, but I
was just so in it, I didn't evenrealize it.
So, yeah, it's certainly ahealthy way to channel it, but
at the same time, it was kind oflike an out of body experience.
(15:55):
It's really hard to explain.
But yeah, so those songs arevery, very personal and a very
deep meaning to me.
And the other thing I forgot tomention earlier about what we
were saying about anxiety andOCD, is one of my biggest
triggers is social media, whichhas been kind of a curse to me
(16:16):
because, you know, as anindependent musician, your life
has to be on the computer to getyourself out there and to do all
of that– or the computer, thephone, whatever, you just have
to be connected technologicallyor else nobody's going to do it
for you.
And I had to purposely step awayand I felt really guilty at
(16:39):
first because, see what washappening– say, I would go on
Instagram and I would bescrolling through, and then I
would just get really anxiousbecause I might see something
that just didn't click in someweird way in my strange brain,
and I can't even explain it, butI had to, you know, say,"Okay,
I'm only going to use Instagramto post things that I need to
(17:01):
post." And it's just a veryuncomfortable thing and that's
gotten a little bit better.
But I felt guilty then because Ithought,"I don't want people to
think I don't care about whatthey're up to or what they're
doing," but I just actuallyphysically and mentally couldn't
handle it.
And I'm still kind of there, butit's getting a little better.
So, one of my goals is to justone day be able to go back on
(17:22):
Instagram and just scrollthrough and see what people are
up to without feeling any sortof anxiety about it.
But yeah, it's just kind of abummer because I really do enjoy
seeing what people are up to,but it's, of course, most
important to be healthy.
Metal Maven (17:40):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I feel like a lotof people now are watching their
consumption of social media.
Kind of when it first came outwas this ravenous thing.
Melissa VanFlee (17:50):
Yeah.
Metal Maven (17:51):
And now everyone's like,"Okay, you know, real life–
step away, put a limit on thisso I'm living in the real
world."
Melissa VanFlee (18:00):
And being in Nature is the one thing actually
– being in Nature and I alsohave a bunny, and being around
my bunny and just being out inthe woods or wherever, that is
just the perfect place for me.
I feel like it's just socomfortable and I can just, you
know, breathe air and I don'thave to worry about just being
(18:23):
connected all the time.
Truthfully, if I wasn't amusician, I probably wouldn't
even have a phone.
That's how bad it is because Ijust don't even, I don't know.
But yeah, being in Nature,there's just nothing like it.
I think, so...
Metal Maven (18:39):
It's the best medicine, you know?
Melissa VanFlee (18:41):
It is, it is.
It's so true.
Metal Maven (18:44):
I mean, especially where it's not as stimulating.
Melissa VanFlee (18:48):
Right.
Metal Maven (18:48):
You know, it feels very natural and easy.
Melissa VanFlee (18:52):
Oh yeah.
Metal Maven (18:53):
Having OCD and anxiety seem to be a
double-edged-sword in your casebecause without it, you may
never have felt and interpretedyour experiences in the specific
way you did, in addition tohaving the wherewithal and
foresight to make something ofit.
And at the same time, it's anextremely difficult path to
(19:15):
walk, though you seem to havefound healthy ways to channel
it.
Melissa VanFlee (19:19):
I hope so.
Yeah, I feel like it, you know,without music, I don't even know
if I'd be here right now to talkabout any of this.
So, I definitely, you know, itis a double-edged-sword.
It's– you know, I'm thankful forit in some ways because I
certainly wouldn't have beenable to dig into some of those
really dark places that Ireached and some of the songs
(19:41):
on, Ode to the Dark.
So yeah, I definitely, I kind ofappreciate it, but at the same
time, I absolutely hate it.
So it's, yeah, it's thatdouble-edged-sword for sure.
Metal Maven (19:52):
It's all that shadow work.
Everyone thinks it's love andlight, but a lot of the way to
make space for light is to, youknow, go in– dive in deep into
yourself, into the dark places,and kind of shift things around
so light can come through.
Melissa VanFlee (20:08):
Exactly.
Metal Maven (20:08):
So you know, it's a lot of work and I feel like when
I listened to"Ode to the Dark,"that's your pièce de résistance
when it comes to dealing withthose emotions inside of you or,
at least, a first attempt intodoing that for yourself.
Melissa VanFlee (20:26):
Yeah, that definitely is a good way to put
it.
Metal Maven (20:29):
You also do a lot more than create music...
a lot more.
You play piano, write songs andsing them, and reimagine iconic
metal ballads, but you alsoteach ballet, you're an
equestrian, and you do thissuper cute, I don't want to
botch the word, but is itAmigurumi?
(20:54):
It's a Japanese art of knittingand crocheting small, stuffed
yarn creatures.
They're so cute, I saw them onyour Instagram stories.
Melissa VanFlee (21:04):
Thank you!
Metal Maven (21:04):
Did I miss anything?
Melissa VanFlee (21:04):
Oh my gosh, I just– well, I think you've
mentioned about teaching.
Yeah, I teach dance andsongwriting.
I'm a professor at a collegehere nearby.
So yeah, I teach that tochildren and adults.
And the children, this summer,I've been spending a lot of time
with kindergarten, first grade,teaching them, songwriting,
(21:25):
ballet.
It's just been really fulfillingand I think that's kind of what
I was missing there for awhile.
It was kind of just all about meand my music and it was just so
intense.
And now I'm stepping back alittle bit and just breathing
and saying,"Here, today we'regoing to learn Swan Lake," and
it's just really great.
So yeah, I've been doing that.
I also paint, draw, oil, pastel.
Really any sort of art.
Metal Maven (21:48):
All the artistic things.
Melissa VanFlee (21:48):
Yeah, I just love art.
Photography– I love editingpictures.
I love, you know, Polaroidpictures.
I can keep going.
I just– I love hobbies, crafts,and all sorts of things.
Metal Maven (21:58):
Well, that's good! And, especially working with
children, they will give you anew perspective every day.
Melissa VanFlee (22:05):
Oh yes, absolutely.
Metal Maven (22:05):
They excel in that.
Melissa VanFlee (22:08):
And they will humble you, just like that.
Metal Maven (22:10):
Oh, for sure.
I was wondering, all of thesethings you do, are they simply
interests or do you see them asspecific ways to help keep your
mind and body healthy, alongwith informing your creative
process in music?
Melissa VanFlee (22:25):
Yeah, I mean I think they're definitely my
interests, but I think thereason I always did these sort
of things is just to keep mymind, my mind healthy.
I think.
I never really thought about itlike that until you said that.
But yeah, I think I'm justalways wanting to do something
and for instance, with theAmigurumi thing, I was
crocheting for a while– I evenwas starting to sell some of the
(22:46):
little things I was making.
And then, I had to put that onthe back burner because I would
make a couple of stitches andthen, if I didn't like what my
mind was doing or thinking atthat time, I'd have to undo a
whole row of stitches.
And it was kind of like, thatwas how it was creeping in.
Even with something like that.
But now, I'm finally at a pointagain where I can, you know, if
(23:07):
I want to make a little Pikachuor something, I can do it
without having to unravel thewhole thing a million times.
So yeah, I think it certainly isjust the way I think I was for
awhile, trying to keep my mindoccupied all the time.
But now, I think it's juststaying healthy and now I'm
actually doing these things toenjoy them.
Not, not to just be likeconstantly filling my brain with
(23:30):
something so something elsedoesn't creep in.
I don't know if that made anysense at all.
Metal Maven (23:34):
It totally does.
And it seems too that beingyounger compared to who you are
now, you're more aware of whenthese things are going to happen
versus falling into it and beinghelpless in a way.
Melissa VanFlee (23:49):
Absolutely, yeah.
Being aware is, oh, that is soimportant.
You can almost see the warningsigns of when you're going to
start to feel a certain way.
And then I think I didn't havethat for awhile and it would
just get so out of control soquickly and I would, you know,
stay up until nine o'clock inthe morning, just 48 hours in
the studio and not even take abreak.
(24:10):
And of course, that's going todrive you to some sort of
insanity really.
So yeah, just knowing thosewarning signs and letting your
body take a break, letting yourmind take a break, it's just so
important.
And another thing I just want tosay really quickly while I'm
talking about all of this isjust not being afraid to talk to
(24:31):
somebody about it.
There's nothing shameful aboutany of this.
I am such a private person andit might feel weird going to
your therapist or going to apsychiatrist and telling them
what you're going through.
But I mean, we recently justexperienced suicide very, very
close to us and I don't reallywant to say who it was, but it's
(24:54):
something that has absolutelyturned our lives upside down.
And I, with dealing with that,it was someone who was not
comfortable and didn't feel theyneeded help, and they absolutely
needed help.
So I just– oh, it's soimportant.
There are so many foundationsand hotlines, and just things
(25:14):
like that.
I just can't stress enough.
I never thought I'd be thatperson telling everybody,"Go get
medication and do this andthat." But I mean, it's just so
important.
Metal Maven (25:27):
There's been such a stigma for a quite a long time
and I feel like we're moving outof that.
Melissa VanFlee (25:32):
Yeah, we are.
Metal Maven (25:32):
Like self care, be responsible for you and your
life, don't be a victim of yourown issues.
You can get help for that.
Melissa VanFlee (25:40):
Yes, exactly.
If you have some way ofcontrolling it and, regardless
of whatever it is, it's, it'sjust so, so crucial.
Metal Maven (25:51):
Well, this kind of makes your current situation
even more delicious in a waybecause now you're going to be
performing with Lacuna Coil thismonth in New York City.
Melissa VanFlee (26:04):
Yeah.
Metal Maven (26:04):
All that hard work, all that mental workout.
You're onstage with Cristina andthe entire Lacuna Coil band,
which is such an amazingopportunity, congratulations by
the way.
Melissa VanFlee (26:19):
Thank you, thank you.
Metal Maven (26:20):
How did you find your way to collaborating with
Lacuna Coil?
It's a bit surreal.
Melissa VanFlee (26:25):
It is.
I mean, I can't even put it intowords.
I honestly feel like I'm just insome sort of dream and I don't
even think it's going to hit mewhen it does happen, after it
happens.
I just, I don't know, it'scrazy.
I've been a fan of Lacuna Coilfor over 15 years and a friend
in high school, when I was inhigh school, introduced me to
them.
(26:46):
I immediately purchased theiralbum, Comalies at my local CD
store and their music got methrough some very dark times
growing up.
And actually, after listening toDelirium, their latest release
produced by Marco Coti Zelati, Icouldn't believe how the
arrangements were exactly what Iheard in my mind.
And you know, with the newcollection of songs I was
(27:07):
writing, which includes all thesongs that are on Ode to the
Dark.
And I was just really gratefulto be able to work with the
entire team behind Delirium.
So yeah, it's just, it's crazy.
I can't even tell you.
You know, working with them overin Milan was really, really cool
and I had pizza one night withCristina and that was awesome to
(27:30):
just meet her and talk to herand see that she was just as
down to earth as I thought shewould be, just the sweetest
person.
And I'm really, really honored–so honored– to be able to play
with them.
And I think there are only twoUS shows this year so I can't
even believe it.
I really look forward to meetinga lot of the people that have
(27:52):
reached out to me over the timesince my music has been out and
I, hopefully, will be able tomeet up with some of them and
finally meet them in person andtalk to them.
And yeah, it's just a verygratifying experience.
And like you said, with all ofthat being said with the whole
(28:13):
mental state I've been in, thishas really happened at a good
time that I can actually enjoyit instead of just having to,
you know, walk onto the stageand walk off and back on again
because it was a compulsion orsomething.
So yeah...
Metal Maven (28:27):
Well it feels good when you can just feel like you.
Melissa VanFlee (28:30):
Yeah.
Metal Maven (28:31):
You know, there's nothing you have to kind of tuck
away or hide from anybody.
You can just be relaxed for alittle bit.
And I don't know if you get alittle stage fright at all
before you go on.
But besides that–
Melissa VanFlee (28:46):
No, I really don't.
Metal Maven (28:46):
Oh, that's good!
Melissa VanFlee (28:47):
I really never have.
I was a dancer my whole life, sothat was one of those things, I
kind of grew up on a stage.
So I don't know though aboutthis, because this is like one
of those mental things for mebecause it's going to be one of
those personal accomplishmentsmore so than anything.
You know, the band that I waslistening to and here I am, and
(29:10):
I don't know.
I'm saying I don't get nervous,but this one might throw me for
a loop.
Metal Maven (29:16):
Well, you've done great so far, so that shouldn't
stop at these shows.
And they're sold out, which is–
Melissa VanFlee (29:24):
Good timing talking about that!
Metal Maven (29:26):
No pressure, it's sold out.
So, back to the question of howyou began your collaboration.
Was that through your manager orhow did that end up working out?
Melissa VanFlee (29:35):
You know, I really don't remember the
details of that whole thing.
I know that I listened toDelirium and had it on repeat
and I kept thinking like,"Okay,I need to work with Marco.
I'm going to find a way to doit." I don't know, I really
don't remember honestly if Ireached out to them, or I don't
know what happened.
I feel like I possibly mighthave emailed their manager at
(29:57):
the time and just told them– Ireally don't know to be honest
with you, I'm sorry.
Metal Maven (30:01):
No, that's fine.
Melissa VanFlee (30:01):
But I just know, the next thing I knew I
was sitting over there at VRXStudio and working with all of
them.
So, I wish I could tell youmore, but I honestly it was like
– well, there again, it was at atime in my life when I was very
in my head and just allconfusing.
But yeah, working there was justsuch a great experience and I
(30:27):
learned so much and aboutrecording and just everything is
just so, so great.
Such a positive, positiveexperience.
Metal Maven (30:35):
You need a mentor at times.
So it's great that you can stepout of where you are and see how
other people do things.
Melissa VanFlee (30:42):
Yes, it's easy to get stuck in your own ways
and I think that's one of thethings that that did was just
open up my eyes to like,"Wow, Inever thought to do it like
that," or you know, and to workwith seasoned veterans and just
see what they do and know– itwas just such an amazing thing.
Metal Maven (31:00):
That's awesome.
I'm super happy for you thatthis is going to happen.
So, what about the future?
Are you currently conjuringanother beautiful, dark journey
to take us on?
What would you like the story ofMelissa VanFleet to be?
And she lived...
Melissa VanFlee (31:18):
And she lived...
the life she dreamed of, even ifthat doesn't mean she's a
massive, famous star.
At least she can be confidentknowing she wrote her own rules
and used music to help herselfand hopefully others through her
art.
I don't know, I just came upwith that off the top of my
head.
Metal Maven (31:37):
You know, that works for me.
Melissa VanFlee (31:39):
Yeah, I just definitely want to go back to
Milan and work with Marco again.
That's on my list of things todo for sure.
But in the meantime, I'm writingso many songs in all different
genres, recording music for TVand film, and I'm also doing
some exploration withcollaborations with artists of
different genres, which has beenso much fun.
(32:00):
Like, some dark electronicthings.
And I'm planning something coolfor October because I didn't
even realize, but October 13th,the last two October 13ths we
had, I released something, sothat's kind of now like a
tradition.
Metal Maven (32:17):
Your special number .
Melissa VanFlee (32:20):
Yeah, there we go, that magical thinking!
Metal Maven (32:20):
It's the number thing again– magical thinking!
But you know what, you'reletting it work for you.
It's good.
Melissa VanFlee (32:27):
Right, exactly.
See, that's a positive thing,not a negative thing.
But yeah, so I just, not toolong ago, released a really fun
feature that did with GenusOrdinis De, they're a Death
Metal band from Italy.
And that was really cool becausethey're a very, very different
style than, than I am, so that'skind of neat.
(32:50):
So yeah, just that kind ofthing.
I love collaborating with peopleand I think it is just such a
way to explore all yourdifferent parts of you as a
musician, and as a person, andas a writer and, and it's just
really fulfilling at the end ofthe day to listen to it and
think like,"Wow, I didn't evenknow I could do that." You know?
(33:12):
And then you hear it and you'relike,"Wow!"
Metal Maven (33:12):
It's very empowering learning something
new about yourself.
It's amazing.
Melissa VanFlee (33:18):
It is, right.
And then you just tuck that awayand then just kind of have it in
your repertoire of things thatyou know how to do or know you
can do and it just opens up youreyes, and your voice, and
everything.
So yeah.
Metal Maven (33:32):
Well, that's all the questions I have for you
today, Melissa.
Melissa VanFlee (33:34):
It was a pleasure.
I'm sorry I talked your ear offabout that anxiety thing, but I
just never opened up about itbefore, so hopefully it wasn't
too much for you.
Metal Maven (33:46):
Oh my goodness, absolutely, don't apologize at
all.
I would like to thank you foryour vulnerability today because
this is a very intimate andpersonal subject, and I know
speaking about it can bringanxiety in itself.
Melissa VanFlee (34:00):
Yeah, definitely.
Definitely does.
Metal Maven (34:01):
So, you did fantastic.
And you know, I just– I do– Ireally appreciate that you took
time out of your day to speakwith me, and...
yeah.
Melissa VanFlee (34:11):
Of course, thank you so much for listening
and for thinking to have me onthis great podcast.
I really, really do enjoy it andI will continue to listen as the
episodes go on.
So, thanks so much, and thanksalso for supporting my music.
I really appreciate that aswell.
Metal Maven (34:27):
Of course and I'll always continue to.
Order your copy of Melissa’slatest EP, Ode to the Dark, as
well as her Metal Lullabiesalbum, at
melissavanfleet.com/music.
If you or someone you know is incrisis, please call the National
Alliance of Mental Healthhelpline at 800-950-6264 or text
(35:00):
NAMI to 741741 to speak with atrained crisis counselor, 24/7.
Visit metalmavenpodcast.com forlinks to Melissa’s social
profiles, videos, and read thefull transcript of this
interview.
Thanks for tuning in, and besure to subscribe to Metal Maven
Podcast on Apple, Stitcher,Spotify, and Google.
Welcome to the Metal Maven Podcast where we
explore and discover the processand passions of artists in the
Metal music and art community.
In episode six of Metal MavenPodcast, we're going to talk
about the stories we tell.
I'd like to welcome MelissaVanFleet, a crafter of dark
songs who sings them very well.
(00:24):
Melissa, I really appreciate youjoining me to share your
stories.
How are you?
Melissa VanFlee (00:29):
I'm doing very well.
Thank you so much for having meon here.
I listened to all the otherpodcasts and it's just– what
you're doing is brilliant.
So I'm very, very honored to beguest on your show.
Thank you.
Metal Maven (00:40):
Thank you.
So, before discussing thepresent and everything that's
happening currently with you,I'd like to go back to another
time and place.
You began creating music at avery young age and seem to be
drawn to it.
What pulled you in?
Where does your story begin?
Once upon a time, there was alittle girl named Melissa...
Melissa VanFlee (01:01):
And she was...
Let's see, addicted to MTV.
My favorite activity as atwo-year-old was standing on
this tiny little makeshift stageand I was two inches in front of
the TV, singing along with AliceCooper and Lita Ford into this
tiny little toy Fisher Pricemicrophone.
(01:22):
And I can vividly rememberpretending that I actually was
them performing on stage.
Like I told myself like,"You areAlice Cooper." And it's really
strange sounding.
But yeah, that was what I didall the time.
Really, every memory I have frommy childhood was accompanied by
some sort of music, whether itbe Metal, or R&B, which my mom
(01:43):
loved, or just anything, it wasjust constantly there and that
is really how my story began.
And then still how it is now.
Metal Maven (01:52):
Well, same here, which I feel we connect with a
lot.
I mean, I remember too, it'slike,"I want my MTV." It's like
they would play that all thetime– so fun.
I mean, it was always on in thebackground too, because my house
was always filled with music andif it's all right, I'd like to
speak with you about your fatherbecause I know he's a very
(02:15):
important part of your story andwhat you're currently doing.
Melissa VanFlee (02:18):
Yes, he is.
The reason that Heavy Metalmusic was instilled in me at
such a young age.
Some of my earliest memoriesinvolve my dad rocking me to
sleep to Ozzy's"Shot In TheDark." That was the song, that
was the one that was my lullabyat night, which I don't know why
that specific song, but it justreally, I guess spoke to me when
(02:41):
I was a newborn.
But he also would teach me namesof musicians and his favorite
bands.
I knew some of their namesbefore I even knew my neighbor's
names.
So yeah, it was just soimportant to him and it was just
passed right down to me.
And you know, it's funny becausemy mom was just talking today to
me about this and she said shehas a very distinct memory of
(03:04):
constantly telling my dad,"Youknow, turn the music down.
You know, this is just not gonnawork." But whenever I would cry,
Metal music was the only thingthat would make me fall asleep.
Like, you can put on SesameStreet, it would do nothing.
But the minute that I heard, youknow, the heavy guitars and
everything, I would just knockout just like that.
So yeah, it's reallyinteresting.
But yeah, so he definitelypulled me into that world and,
(03:27):
and I've never left so I'm very,very grateful for that.
Metal Maven (03:32):
You know, as I said before, same here.
I mean, my father would playguitar all the time and I was
listening to your cover of"Silent Lucidity" and I remember
him playing that intro andbehind him on the wall was
Ozzy's The Ultimate Sin albumposter.
So the recall was reallyspecific, so– and also, I would
(03:53):
like to mention that"SilentLucity" made me cry, so thanks
for that.
Melissa VanFlee (03:59):
I'm sorry!
Metal Maven (04:00):
No, no! It was so good.
I mean, it was a good cry andthen I realized what we should
be talking about together.
Melissa VanFlee (04:08):
Well, I'm glad to hear that.
I'm sorry, but I'm glad to hearthat it touched you, thank you.
Metal Maven (04:12):
No apologies needed.
But these Metal Lullabies andreinterpretations, are they a
way to encapsulate or triggerepisodic memories?
Essentially are these songs away for you to time travel?
Melissa VanFlee (04:28):
Yeah, absolutely.
I would say I am just sonostalgic.
And my favorite part about musicis how it can, you know,
transport you to another timeand place and just make you feel
the same exact feelings you feltwhen you first heard the song.
And I just think that's one ofthose things that's just so
special about it.
And yeah, I mean when I pickedthe songs that were on my Metal
(04:51):
Lullabies album, I of course,had a lot of help from my dad
here again because even if hedidn't say,"These are the songs
going on the record," it'sstill, I mean it was all of his
favorite songs.
So I mean it was certainly,certainly, certainly a way.
Every time I hear"Sleeping InThe Fire" by W.
A.S.P., for instance, now I havesome new memories since I played
(05:13):
it when I was touring Spain and,you know, I've done versions
with Doug Blair from W.A.S.P.
now, who plays lead guitar inW.A.S.P., but so there's some
new memories with the song, butit still takes me right back to,
you know, when my dad waslistening to Metal Shop in 1980
whatever year it was, 85 86 or87– I don't even know when.
(05:33):
But anyway, it still just takesme right back to those memories
and you know, it's just reallycool how now I can build off of
them.
But it's just, yeah, it'samazing.
Music is just such a powerful,amazing thing.
Metal Maven (05:46):
And was it your father that suggested you post
these reimaginations of songsonline?
Melissa VanFlee (05:52):
It was, yeah.
Because, you know, I never hadany, at the time I was doing
like Adele covers and justthings that I thought would be,
I don't know, I was listening tometal all the time, but I just
didn't want to be like too outthere at the time.
I was afraid of like kind ofventuring into that.
And then one day for hisbirthday I did the cover of
(06:15):
"Sleeping in the Fire"– thevideo, and that was a birthday
present, nobody was eversupposed to see it.
And then he said,"You know,you've got to put this up
there." He said,"You'd be crazynot to and what's the worst that
could happen?
Nobody would see it." And Ihonestly, that video has changed
my life.
It has absolutely open to somany doors that I never saw
(06:36):
coming and yeah, it truly– youknow this was really funny too
is my mom on the other hand waslike,"I don't know, I think you
should take that down," becauseshe always said that when she
thought I did something a littlemore like out of the box, she
wanted me to be safer.
But then now she's like,"Yeah,it's good you didn't take that
down." So it's kind of funnybecause she's not a huge metal
(06:59):
fan but she appreciates it.
But yeah, it was definitely, hereally pretty much forced me to
do it and I'm so glad that I didbecause through that I met my
booking agent, and I spoke withthe people that are in W.A.S.P.
now, and I've worked with DougBlair and that's actually– it
kind of helped in some way getme over to Spain on tour and
(07:22):
it's pretty cool.
It just really is important toget music out there and now we
can with the Internet and it'sjust brilliant how you're able
to do that.
Metal Maven (07:31):
Well, it's funny how your gift for your father
became an even greater gift foryou.
Melissa VanFlee (07:36):
Yeah, yeah definitely.
Metal Maven (07:37):
It's weird how it works out.
Melissa VanFlee (07:38):
Yeah, life is crazy.
Metal Maven (07:40):
Your versions are interesting because they make me
forget the original for a momentand it's refreshing because it
offers a way to re-experiencemusic that carries heavy
nostalgia.
Melissa VanFlee (07:50):
Very cool.
I'm glad to hear that.
Metal Maven (07:52):
So, when I was listening, sometimes I'm like,
"What am I listening to again?
Melissa VanFlee (07:59):
Oh wow!
Metal Maven (07:59):
And then I would get little memories of the
original, and then where I was.
So, it was a cool experience.
Melissa VanFlee (08:04):
Very cool.
I know family is a big part ofyour life and you know,
obviously your dad has helpedyou and brought you to this
moment where you're actuallyplaying your own metal music,
but you also have another aspectthat you have lived with and
this is your OCD and anxiety.
And, if I'm not being tooforward, what are your symptoms?
(08:29):
I know you can have obsessions,compulsions, or a mix of both.
What are your rituals?
When or how did this begin foryou?
I've never really spoken in alot of detail about this.
I'm a super private person–very, very private.
But I do feel like I kind ofwant to dig into this a little
bit more, and I think itactually might be a little bit
(08:50):
therapeutic to do so.
I certainly will talk about it.
You know, it's interestingbecause it's kind of going off
of the last topic we weretalking about.
My dad, I grew up with himhaving chronic illnesses and
problems.
He was a diabetic since he was17, he had a kidney transplant
when I was in fifth grade, hewas in a coma when I was in
third grade– they didn't know ifhe was going to come out of it.
(09:12):
They actually called the familyin and– he has had his leg
amputated.
He had, I mean, I could keepgoing.
And I don't want to do this forsympathy, but I mean, as you can
imagine, all of this starting–oh, that's let alone all of the
blood sugar, you know, times Icame home from places and he was
passed out and you know, I hadto give him a shot to bring his
(09:33):
blood sugar back up.
So, I mean, as you can imagine,you know, I know there's a lot
of people that deal with a lotof things and my heart just goes
out to everyone that has to dealwith anything.
But just speaking personally,you know, dealing with that from
when you're three or four yearsold and just kind of your whole
entire life not knowing what thenext day is going to bring.
(09:53):
I mean it's– my therapist and mypsychiatrist, they all say like,
"You know, it's pretty obviouswhy you have anxiety." Plus,
it's kind of inborn in me.
You know, it's a genetic thingas well.
But it definitely, I think a lotof that is also PTSD from
different experiences that Ihave.
Not to go too much off on atangent, but for instance, you
(10:17):
know, I would go now, even as a33 year old– if I go to the
hospital where, you know, someof these things happened with my
dad, I have panic attacks therebecause I am just always trying
to find all like,"Oh yeah, whatroom was this?
And this is where thishappened." And I'm actually
shaking right now talking aboutthis.
That's how, that's how seriousit is to me still.
(10:37):
And yeah, so I think a big partof that is from that, and I
actually used music when I waslittle.
I started with poetry and then Istarted having melody ideas and
I would kind of turn them intolyrics, and that is how I
started writing.
And it really, really helpedbecause I was an only child.
(10:58):
I didn't have a ton of friends,just by choice.
I think with what I was goingthrough with my dad I just felt
like at any second, somethingcould be taken away.
So I even applied that to myfriends.
Like, if I had a friend and Iwas having a good time at any
second that could just go away.
And I don't know if this ismaking any sense at all, but I'm
just completely talking off thetop of my head.
Metal Maven (11:15):
No, it totally does, so just keep on going.
Melissa VanFlee (11:19):
Okay.
But yeah, I just was alwaysafraid of something going away,
because that was just thatconstant fear that at any time–
so, you know, I've even hadpeople that have lost their
parents come to me and say,"Youknow, it was really hard dealing
with the loss of my dad.
But, you know, I don't know if Iwould be able to go through what
you went through– constant,constant, constant, you know,
(11:41):
forever."– until now– but yeah,as you can imagine, that brings
me to the anxiety and the OCD.
And I think the OCD was kind ofwhat naturally happened to help
me have sort of control in mylife because I didn't feel like
I could control anything.
And I remember when I was inabout fifth grade when all of
that was happening, my aunt gavemy dad her kidney and you know I
(12:05):
kind of felt like my life wasfalling apart anyway because
you're kind of at thatadolescent age where you're
really not comfortable any waywith anything.
Like everything is changingaround you, and you're changing,
and it's just reallyuncomfortable, and I feel like I
had a breakdown then and that'swhen I was like really starting
to– I just remember constantlyshaking and just, I don't know,
(12:27):
I didn't cry a lot because Ijust never felt comfortable
crying.
I just kind of kept everythingin.
But then I started playinginstruments and that changed my
life completely because then Iwas finally able to get out what
was inside and then that helpedme to kind of not have so much
inside.
My obsessions were always moreof the magical thinking, which
(12:50):
is like, I would for instance,look at a clock and only be
allowed to do things at certaintimes.
I would have like magic numbersand if it was on an unlucky or
lucky number, and that sort ofthing, which I'm sure you know,
you can kind of understand howthat would be hard to get things
done because I would sit forinstance on my computer for an
hour waiting for a certain timethat I could save a document, or
(13:13):
something.
So I mean, it's just that sortof thing.
A lot of, you know, undoing andredoing.
Like, I would walk into a room,walk back out, and then walk
back in.
Just really looks so silly toanybody else, I'm sure.
But I tried to keep all that inas well.
But I would say– I could keepgoing on about the rituals, but
I would say last year at thistime, I had experienced some
(13:36):
loss in the family.
People you know, kind of feltlike I was losing control again.
And I kind of had a breakdownaround this time last year, and
it was the worst that I have hadyet.
And I thought, it was honestlylike when you hear like people
having a mental breakdown it'skind of like that.
And I just didn't know what todo.
(13:57):
So I went and I have to say I'ma super huge advocate for
medicating yourself if you haveany disorder like this because
I'm on a very, very small doseof something and it's just
enough for me to still feel likemyself, but to be able to get
through daily life.
So with that being said, I wasworried about going on
(14:21):
medication because I thought,you know, I was a little bit
concerned that maybe it wouldalter my creativity and it would
maybe, because all of my writingis from such a dark place.
I actually feel like it's easierto write now because it's not,
my head isn't like,"Oh, youcan't write that word because
that word can't be next to thisword," and you know, all those
silly OCD type things.
(14:42):
So, it really is under controlright now.
But that's not to say, thatsomething might not happen later
on.
But, that's pretty much mystory.
Metal Maven (14:48):
Well, I was curious because I had read that this was
your situation and whenlistening to Ode to the Dark, it
seems like you're immersinglisteners into your mental
state.
So how did you channel thosefeelings inside into telling
(15:09):
this story in support of yourmental health?
Melissa VanFlee (15:12):
You know, it's interesting because when I was
writing the songs on Ode to theDark, I initially thought they
were from a biographicalstandpoint, because I was
thinking about maybe stories Ihad read, or stories I had heard
about other things.
And then, as I was coming out ofthis dark mental place that I
was in when I was writing, Irealized they were completely
inspired by my own encounterswith anxiety and OCD.
(15:34):
And I didn't even realize itbecause I was just so deep into
it when I was writing.
So yeah, they were 100% aboutwhat I was going through, but I
was just so in it, I didn't evenrealize it.
So, yeah, it's certainly ahealthy way to channel it, but
at the same time, it was kind oflike an out of body experience.
(15:55):
It's really hard to explain.
But yeah, so those songs arevery, very personal and a very
deep meaning to me.
And the other thing I forgot tomention earlier about what we
were saying about anxiety andOCD, is one of my biggest
triggers is social media, whichhas been kind of a curse to me
(16:16):
because, you know, as anindependent musician, your life
has to be on the computer to getyourself out there and to do all
of that– or the computer, thephone, whatever, you just have
to be connected technologicallyor else nobody's going to do it
for you.
And I had to purposely step awayand I felt really guilty at
(16:39):
first because, see what washappening– say, I would go on
Instagram and I would bescrolling through, and then I
would just get really anxiousbecause I might see something
that just didn't click in someweird way in my strange brain,
and I can't even explain it, butI had to, you know, say,"Okay,
I'm only going to use Instagramto post things that I need to
(17:01):
post." And it's just a veryuncomfortable thing and that's
gotten a little bit better.
But I felt guilty then because Ithought,"I don't want people to
think I don't care about whatthey're up to or what they're
doing," but I just actuallyphysically and mentally couldn't
handle it.
And I'm still kind of there, butit's getting a little better.
So, one of my goals is to justone day be able to go back on
(17:22):
Instagram and just scrollthrough and see what people are
up to without feeling any sortof anxiety about it.
But yeah, it's just kind of abummer because I really do enjoy
seeing what people are up to,but it's, of course, most
important to be healthy.
Metal Maven (17:40):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I feel like a lotof people now are watching their
consumption of social media.
Kind of when it first came outwas this ravenous thing.
Melissa VanFlee (17:50):
Yeah.
Metal Maven (17:51):
And now everyone's like,"Okay, you know, real life–
step away, put a limit on thisso I'm living in the real
world."
Melissa VanFlee (18:00):
And being in Nature is the one thing actually
– being in Nature and I alsohave a bunny, and being around
my bunny and just being out inthe woods or wherever, that is
just the perfect place for me.
I feel like it's just socomfortable and I can just, you
know, breathe air and I don'thave to worry about just being
(18:23):
connected all the time.
Truthfully, if I wasn't amusician, I probably wouldn't
even have a phone.
That's how bad it is because Ijust don't even, I don't know.
But yeah, being in Nature,there's just nothing like it.
I think, so...
Metal Maven (18:39):
It's the best medicine, you know?
Melissa VanFlee (18:41):
It is, it is.
It's so true.
Metal Maven (18:44):
I mean, especially where it's not as stimulating.
Melissa VanFlee (18:48):
Right.
Metal Maven (18:48):
You know, it feels very natural and easy.
Melissa VanFlee (18:52):
Oh yeah.
Metal Maven (18:53):
Having OCD and anxiety seem to be a
double-edged-sword in your casebecause without it, you may
never have felt and interpretedyour experiences in the specific
way you did, in addition tohaving the wherewithal and
foresight to make something ofit.
And at the same time, it's anextremely difficult path to
(19:15):
walk, though you seem to havefound healthy ways to channel
it.
Melissa VanFlee (19:19):
I hope so.
Yeah, I feel like it, you know,without music, I don't even know
if I'd be here right now to talkabout any of this.
So, I definitely, you know, itis a double-edged-sword.
It's– you know, I'm thankful forit in some ways because I
certainly wouldn't have beenable to dig into some of those
really dark places that Ireached and some of the songs
(19:41):
on, Ode to the Dark.
So yeah, I definitely, I kind ofappreciate it, but at the same
time, I absolutely hate it.
So it's, yeah, it's thatdouble-edged-sword for sure.
Metal Maven (19:52):
It's all that shadow work.
Everyone thinks it's love andlight, but a lot of the way to
make space for light is to, youknow, go in– dive in deep into
yourself, into the dark places,and kind of shift things around
so light can come through.
Melissa VanFlee (20:08):
Exactly.
Metal Maven (20:08):
So you know, it's a lot of work and I feel like when
I listened to"Ode to the Dark,"that's your pièce de résistance
when it comes to dealing withthose emotions inside of you or,
at least, a first attempt intodoing that for yourself.
Melissa VanFlee (20:26):
Yeah, that definitely is a good way to put
it.
Metal Maven (20:29):
You also do a lot more than create music...
a lot more.
You play piano, write songs andsing them, and reimagine iconic
metal ballads, but you alsoteach ballet, you're an
equestrian, and you do thissuper cute, I don't want to
botch the word, but is itAmigurumi?
(20:54):
It's a Japanese art of knittingand crocheting small, stuffed
yarn creatures.
They're so cute, I saw them onyour Instagram stories.
Melissa VanFlee (21:04):
Thank you!
Metal Maven (21:04):
Did I miss anything?
Melissa VanFlee (21:04):
Oh my gosh, I just– well, I think you've
mentioned about teaching.
Yeah, I teach dance andsongwriting.
I'm a professor at a collegehere nearby.
So yeah, I teach that tochildren and adults.
And the children, this summer,I've been spending a lot of time
with kindergarten, first grade,teaching them, songwriting,
(21:25):
ballet.
It's just been really fulfillingand I think that's kind of what
I was missing there for awhile.
It was kind of just all about meand my music and it was just so
intense.
And now I'm stepping back alittle bit and just breathing
and saying,"Here, today we'regoing to learn Swan Lake," and
it's just really great.
So yeah, I've been doing that.
I also paint, draw, oil, pastel.
Really any sort of art.
Metal Maven (21:48):
All the artistic things.
Melissa VanFlee (21:48):
Yeah, I just love art.
Photography– I love editingpictures.
I love, you know, Polaroidpictures.
I can keep going.
I just– I love hobbies, crafts,and all sorts of things.
Metal Maven (21:58):
Well, that's good! And, especially working with
children, they will give you anew perspective every day.
Melissa VanFlee (22:05):
Oh yes, absolutely.
Metal Maven (22:05):
They excel in that.
Melissa VanFlee (22:08):
And they will humble you, just like that.
Metal Maven (22:10):
Oh, for sure.
I was wondering, all of thesethings you do, are they simply
interests or do you see them asspecific ways to help keep your
mind and body healthy, alongwith informing your creative
process in music?
Melissa VanFlee (22:25):
Yeah, I mean I think they're definitely my
interests, but I think thereason I always did these sort
of things is just to keep mymind, my mind healthy.
I think.
I never really thought about itlike that until you said that.
But yeah, I think I'm justalways wanting to do something
and for instance, with theAmigurumi thing, I was
crocheting for a while– I evenwas starting to sell some of the
(22:46):
little things I was making.
And then, I had to put that onthe back burner because I would
make a couple of stitches andthen, if I didn't like what my
mind was doing or thinking atthat time, I'd have to undo a
whole row of stitches.
And it was kind of like, thatwas how it was creeping in.
Even with something like that.
But now, I'm finally at a pointagain where I can, you know, if
(23:07):
I want to make a little Pikachuor something, I can do it
without having to unravel thewhole thing a million times.
So yeah, I think it certainly isjust the way I think I was for
awhile, trying to keep my mindoccupied all the time.
But now, I think it's juststaying healthy and now I'm
actually doing these things toenjoy them.
Not, not to just be likeconstantly filling my brain with
(23:30):
something so something elsedoesn't creep in.
I don't know if that made anysense at all.
Metal Maven (23:34):
It totally does.
And it seems too that beingyounger compared to who you are
now, you're more aware of whenthese things are going to happen
versus falling into it and beinghelpless in a way.
Melissa VanFlee (23:49):
Absolutely, yeah.
Being aware is, oh, that is soimportant.
You can almost see the warningsigns of when you're going to
start to feel a certain way.
And then I think I didn't havethat for awhile and it would
just get so out of control soquickly and I would, you know,
stay up until nine o'clock inthe morning, just 48 hours in
the studio and not even take abreak.
(24:10):
And of course, that's going todrive you to some sort of
insanity really.
So yeah, just knowing thosewarning signs and letting your
body take a break, letting yourmind take a break, it's just so
important.
And another thing I just want tosay really quickly while I'm
talking about all of this isjust not being afraid to talk to
(24:31):
somebody about it.
There's nothing shameful aboutany of this.
I am such a private person andit might feel weird going to
your therapist or going to apsychiatrist and telling them
what you're going through.
But I mean, we recently justexperienced suicide very, very
close to us and I don't reallywant to say who it was, but it's
(24:54):
something that has absolutelyturned our lives upside down.
And I, with dealing with that,it was someone who was not
comfortable and didn't feel theyneeded help, and they absolutely
needed help.
So I just– oh, it's soimportant.
There are so many foundationsand hotlines, and just things
(25:14):
like that.
I just can't stress enough.
I never thought I'd be thatperson telling everybody,"Go get
medication and do this andthat." But I mean, it's just so
important.
Metal Maven (25:27):
There's been such a stigma for a quite a long time
and I feel like we're moving outof that.
Melissa VanFlee (25:32):
Yeah, we are.
Metal Maven (25:32):
Like self care, be responsible for you and your
life, don't be a victim of yourown issues.
You can get help for that.
Melissa VanFlee (25:40):
Yes, exactly.
If you have some way ofcontrolling it and, regardless
of whatever it is, it's, it'sjust so, so crucial.
Metal Maven (25:51):
Well, this kind of makes your current situation
even more delicious in a waybecause now you're going to be
performing with Lacuna Coil thismonth in New York City.
Melissa VanFlee (26:04):
Yeah.
Metal Maven (26:04):
All that hard work, all that mental workout.
You're onstage with Cristina andthe entire Lacuna Coil band,
which is such an amazingopportunity, congratulations by
the way.
Melissa VanFlee (26:19):
Thank you, thank you.
Metal Maven (26:20):
How did you find your way to collaborating with
Lacuna Coil?
It's a bit surreal.
Melissa VanFlee (26:25):
It is.
I mean, I can't even put it intowords.
I honestly feel like I'm just insome sort of dream and I don't
even think it's going to hit mewhen it does happen, after it
happens.
I just, I don't know, it'scrazy.
I've been a fan of Lacuna Coilfor over 15 years and a friend
in high school, when I was inhigh school, introduced me to
them.
(26:46):
I immediately purchased theiralbum, Comalies at my local CD
store and their music got methrough some very dark times
growing up.
And actually, after listening toDelirium, their latest release
produced by Marco Coti Zelati, Icouldn't believe how the
arrangements were exactly what Iheard in my mind.
And you know, with the newcollection of songs I was
(27:07):
writing, which includes all thesongs that are on Ode to the
Dark.
And I was just really gratefulto be able to work with the
entire team behind Delirium.
So yeah, it's just, it's crazy.
I can't even tell you.
You know, working with them overin Milan was really, really cool
and I had pizza one night withCristina and that was awesome to
(27:30):
just meet her and talk to herand see that she was just as
down to earth as I thought shewould be, just the sweetest
person.
And I'm really, really honored–so honored– to be able to play
with them.
And I think there are only twoUS shows this year so I can't
even believe it.
I really look forward to meetinga lot of the people that have
(27:52):
reached out to me over the timesince my music has been out and
I, hopefully, will be able tomeet up with some of them and
finally meet them in person andtalk to them.
And yeah, it's just a verygratifying experience.
And like you said, with all ofthat being said with the whole
(28:13):
mental state I've been in, thishas really happened at a good
time that I can actually enjoyit instead of just having to,
you know, walk onto the stageand walk off and back on again
because it was a compulsion orsomething.
So yeah...
Metal Maven (28:27):
Well it feels good when you can just feel like you.
Melissa VanFlee (28:30):
Yeah.
Metal Maven (28:31):
You know, there's nothing you have to kind of tuck
away or hide from anybody.
You can just be relaxed for alittle bit.
And I don't know if you get alittle stage fright at all
before you go on.
But besides that–
Melissa VanFlee (28:46):
No, I really don't.
Metal Maven (28:46):
Oh, that's good!
Melissa VanFlee (28:47):
I really never have.
I was a dancer my whole life, sothat was one of those things, I
kind of grew up on a stage.
So I don't know though aboutthis, because this is like one
of those mental things for mebecause it's going to be one of
those personal accomplishmentsmore so than anything.
You know, the band that I waslistening to and here I am, and
(29:10):
I don't know.
I'm saying I don't get nervous,but this one might throw me for
a loop.
Metal Maven (29:16):
Well, you've done great so far, so that shouldn't
stop at these shows.
And they're sold out, which is–
Melissa VanFlee (29:24):
Good timing talking about that!
Metal Maven (29:26):
No pressure, it's sold out.
So, back to the question of howyou began your collaboration.
Was that through your manager orhow did that end up working out?
Melissa VanFlee (29:35):
You know, I really don't remember the
details of that whole thing.
I know that I listened toDelirium and had it on repeat
and I kept thinking like,"Okay,I need to work with Marco.
I'm going to find a way to doit." I don't know, I really
don't remember honestly if Ireached out to them, or I don't
know what happened.
I feel like I possibly mighthave emailed their manager at
(29:57):
the time and just told them– Ireally don't know to be honest
with you, I'm sorry.
Metal Maven (30:01):
No, that's fine.
Melissa VanFlee (30:01):
But I just know, the next thing I knew I
was sitting over there at VRXStudio and working with all of
them.
So, I wish I could tell youmore, but I honestly it was like
– well, there again, it was at atime in my life when I was very
in my head and just allconfusing.
But yeah, working there was justsuch a great experience and I
(30:27):
learned so much and aboutrecording and just everything is
just so, so great.
Such a positive, positiveexperience.
Metal Maven (30:35):
You need a mentor at times.
So it's great that you can stepout of where you are and see how
other people do things.
Melissa VanFlee (30:42):
Yes, it's easy to get stuck in your own ways
and I think that's one of thethings that that did was just
open up my eyes to like,"Wow, Inever thought to do it like
that," or you know, and to workwith seasoned veterans and just
see what they do and know– itwas just such an amazing thing.
Metal Maven (31:00):
That's awesome.
I'm super happy for you thatthis is going to happen.
So, what about the future?
Are you currently conjuringanother beautiful, dark journey
to take us on?
What would you like the story ofMelissa VanFleet to be?
And she lived...
Melissa VanFlee (31:18):
And she lived...
the life she dreamed of, even ifthat doesn't mean she's a
massive, famous star.
At least she can be confidentknowing she wrote her own rules
and used music to help herselfand hopefully others through her
art.
I don't know, I just came upwith that off the top of my
head.
Metal Maven (31:37):
You know, that works for me.
Melissa VanFlee (31:39):
Yeah, I just definitely want to go back to
Milan and work with Marco again.
That's on my list of things todo for sure.
But in the meantime, I'm writingso many songs in all different
genres, recording music for TVand film, and I'm also doing
some exploration withcollaborations with artists of
different genres, which has beenso much fun.
(32:00):
Like, some dark electronicthings.
And I'm planning something coolfor October because I didn't
even realize, but October 13th,the last two October 13ths we
had, I released something, sothat's kind of now like a
tradition.
Metal Maven (32:17):
Your special number .
Melissa VanFlee (32:20):
Yeah, there we go, that magical thinking!
Metal Maven (32:20):
It's the number thing again– magical thinking!
But you know what, you'reletting it work for you.
It's good.
Melissa VanFlee (32:27):
Right, exactly.
See, that's a positive thing,not a negative thing.
But yeah, so I just, not toolong ago, released a really fun
feature that did with GenusOrdinis De, they're a Death
Metal band from Italy.
And that was really cool becausethey're a very, very different
style than, than I am, so that'skind of neat.
(32:50):
So yeah, just that kind ofthing.
I love collaborating with peopleand I think it is just such a
way to explore all yourdifferent parts of you as a
musician, and as a person, andas a writer and, and it's just
really fulfilling at the end ofthe day to listen to it and
think like,"Wow, I didn't evenknow I could do that." You know?
(33:12):
And then you hear it and you'relike,"Wow!"
Metal Maven (33:12):
It's very empowering learning something
new about yourself.
It's amazing.
Melissa VanFlee (33:18):
It is, right.
And then you just tuck that awayand then just kind of have it in
your repertoire of things thatyou know how to do or know you
can do and it just opens up youreyes, and your voice, and
everything.
So yeah.
Metal Maven (33:32):
Well, that's all the questions I have for you
today, Melissa.
Melissa VanFlee (33:34):
It was a pleasure.
I'm sorry I talked your ear offabout that anxiety thing, but I
just never opened up about itbefore, so hopefully it wasn't
too much for you.
Metal Maven (33:46):
Oh my goodness, absolutely, don't apologize at
all.
I would like to thank you foryour vulnerability today because
this is a very intimate andpersonal subject, and I know
speaking about it can bringanxiety in itself.
Melissa VanFlee (34:00):
Yeah, definitely.
Definitely does.
Metal Maven (34:01):
So, you did fantastic.
And you know, I just– I do– Ireally appreciate that you took
time out of your day to speakwith me, and...
yeah.
Melissa VanFlee (34:11):
Of course, thank you so much for listening
and for thinking to have me onthis great podcast.
I really, really do enjoy it andI will continue to listen as the
episodes go on.
So, thanks so much, and thanksalso for supporting my music.
I really appreciate that aswell.
Metal Maven (34:27):
Of course and I'll always continue to.
Order your copy of Melissa’slatest EP, Ode to the Dark, as
well as her Metal Lullabiesalbum, at
melissavanfleet.com/music.
If you or someone you know is incrisis, please call the National
Alliance of Mental Healthhelpline at 800-950-6264 or text
(35:00):
NAMI to 741741 to speak with atrained crisis counselor, 24/7.
Visit metalmavenpodcast.com forlinks to Melissa’s social
profiles, videos, and read thefull transcript of this
interview.
Thanks for tuning in, and besure to subscribe to Metal Maven
Podcast on Apple, Stitcher,Spotify, and Google.
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