May 8, 2019 • 41 mins
In the fourth episode of Metal Maven Podcast, rock photographer, Jeremy Saffer joins me to discuss how he transformed his career from onstage to behind the camera, his creative process and views on photography in the music industry, as well as his latest projects and offerings.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Metal Maven (00:02):
Welcome to the Metal Maven Podcast, where we
explore and discover the processand passions of artists and the
metal music and art community.
The fourth episode of MetalMaven Podcast features rock
photographer, Jeremy Saffer.
His work has donned the coversof Metal Hammer, Outburn,
(00:22):
Revolver, Kerrang, and manymore.
Jeremy, welcome and thank youfor being here.
Jeremy Saffer (00:27):
Thank you for having me.
Metal Maven (00:28):
Of course.
So let's start from thebeginning.
You were originally a musicianbefore becoming a rock
photographer.
Can you talk about thattransformation and how you
changed your professional path?
Jeremy Saffer (00:40):
Yeah, without getting too too deep into it.
Basically I started as amusician who took photos of
other musicians that I wasplaying with.
My band opened up for a lot ofbigger bands and I would take
the photos to sort of show, hey,this is who we played with.
And then the promoter who bookedour shows, booked the bigger
(01:02):
shows, saw me shooting and hadme shoot all his local shows,
which are, you know, metal andhardcore shows.
And he worked for a biggercompany called Mass Concerts,
which ran, you know, ThePalladium, The Webster, all
these bigger venues, much more,you know, not global, but all of
New England.
And so I started shooting forthem as well, shooting concerts.
(01:23):
But it was very much, you know,a fan thing where, you know, I
shot concerts to get into theconcert for free so I could see
the bands I wanted to see.
But you know, they use thephotos and we all got something
out of it.
At the time I was still amusician.
Going to Berklee School of Musicwas like the dream.
And I got there and as I wasgoing to Berklee, I started
hating playing music and I wouldskip homework to shoot shows.
(01:48):
I was finding much more inphotography than music at the
time.
And after a few semesters I wentto, this person, Scott Lee and
asked him,"You know, hey I'mdropping out of Berklee.
I hate this.
I don't want to play music." Youknow, the thing with music is I
could play metal and love it.
(02:08):
If you ask me to play jazz, I'llhate it.
You ask me to play blues, I hateit.
If it's not metal I'll probablyhate it.
With photography, I could shootanything and love it.
So anyway, I went up to him andyou know, I was like,"I'm done
with Berklee, I don't know whatto do with my life." And he
asked me,"You know, what do youwant to do?
What do you like doing?
What do you have fun doing?" AndI said shooting shows, taking
(02:31):
pictures.
And he looked at me like I wasthe last person to get it.
He was like,"Do that." I didn'tthink of it as,"Okay, someone
can make a living at it." Ialways looked at it as like,"Oh,
I'm a fan who takes pictures ofbands that I like." I never
looked at it as I can make aliving or even a dime doing
(02:51):
this.
I always did it for fun.
And so I basically put down theguitar to pick up a camera and
just kept going.
And you know, started touring,went to a photo school for a
little bit.
It was a 10-month intensiveprogram kind of thing at
Hallmark Institute ofPhotography.
So I did that and I basicallyjumped off tour to go there,
(03:15):
went there, jumped right back ontour, and over the next two
years is when everything fromthose 10 months really soaked in
and I kind of understood what Ihad just gone through and all
those lessons, all the thingsI've learned, you know they were
– they become part of yourfoundation basically.
(03:36):
But it takes a while for thosethings to soak in as you
actually do them on the field.
It's one thing to be in thiscontrolled teaching environment
being told,"Okay this is how youlight this, this is how you
shoot this." And then it'sanother when you have abandoned
in front of you and you havefive minutes to shoot them
because they're about to go onstage and you have to nail it
and get it right.
And then you figure out,"Oh,this is what they said, would
(03:59):
happened, you know, time-wise ifyou shoot this way, if you light
this way, how to light itcorrectly." All that fun stuff.
And yeah, that's basically how Ikind of hit that fork in the
road and went to photography.
Metal Maven (04:13):
That's awesome.
But it's like, you love metalmusic, you're playing that as a
musician.
But now it was kind of like aneasy transition into being a
photographer because theenjoyment was there and it was
still in the arena that youwanted to be in.
You're still in the audiencetaking photos, you're still
backstage– you're still kind oflike, I don't know, in your
(04:36):
zone, in your location thatyou're supposed to be in and
thrive in.
Jeremy Saffer (04:39):
Oh yeah, for sure.
I'm definitely neck deep in themusic world.
I'm not very good at being likethe quote unquote artist, like
the photographer, if that makessense.
I'm much more like, you asked mewho a gallery owner is, I
couldn't tell you one.
You ask me who these well-known,super famous, amazing
photographers are, I know veryfew.
(05:01):
You ask me who a tour manager isfor any given band I'll give you
their name and what band they'reout with right now, and who the
guitar tech is, and who thetouring drummer is.
And you know, my world is verymuch music, more so than art.
And so I'm kind of...
the way Scott put it, you know,he's kind of my mentor, he's
like,"Okay, so you're like, youdidn't become a rock star by
(05:24):
playing music.
You became a rock star by beinga photographer.
I don't think I'm a rock star oranything like that.
I'm not that type of person orthat ego maniac or anything like
that, but I get what he meant.
It's more like I'm in the musicworld– I'm not in the art world.
It's just my instrument is acamera.
Metal Maven (05:42):
I think that lack of ego is to your advantage.
You are an amazing photographer,and you should know that and be
like,"I am great at this,"because you are Jeremy.
Jeremy Saffer (05:52):
I have my moments every now and again.
Metal Maven (05:54):
You have a lot of good moments I'll say that.
I mean, I've met you backstageand you're super professional,
you have everything set up readyto go, and it just seems like
you do it flawlessly.
Just to watch you transitionfrom backstage to in the pit and
then you're off taking photos inthe alley afterwards for
(06:15):
personal things that you maysell at your store.
So I was like,"He's got itdown."
Jeremy Saffer (06:21):
Oh, you'd have to after this many years.
Thank you very much.
Metal Maven (06:26):
You're welcome.
Jeremy Saffer (06:26):
It was a lot of trial and error for sure.
Metal Maven (06:29):
Oh yeah.
So, all of these people you knowand have met, and now that we
have your backstory, when anartist or a band or the band
manager contacts you, what isyour creative process start to
finish?
There's definitely more to itthan point and click.
Jeremy Saffer (06:46):
Well, every shoot is kind of its own thing,
everything's very different,there's no one path.
It's kind of a choose your ownadventure, if that makes sense.
So sometimes a magazine willassign me a photo shoot with a
band and they'll have a veryspecific concept.
Sometimes they'll be like,"Go doyour thing." And that's all
they'll say.
(07:06):
Sometimes a band will hit me upand hire me directly and say,
"You know, we have this reallyintricate idea.
We need a make up artist, weneed this, we need, you know, an
effects artists, we needextras." And then sometimes
bands are like,"Oh, I don'tknow, we just need a photo on a
background." And you know, it'smore up to me sometimes– it's
usually when there's an idea,it's very collaborative where
(07:28):
they'll come to me with aconcept and ask me how to make
it happen and I'll come up withsome ideas and we'll, you know,
tinker with it until we make ithappen or change the idea a
little bit.
So it's always different forsure.
You know, most times I would sayeight out of 10 times, there's
no concept.
It's just we're doing a photoshoot and it's up to the
(07:50):
lighting, the background, andthe band to kind of make that a
unique photo shoot so it doesn'tlook like every other photo
shoot and there's no concept.
And you know, concepts can getreal cheesy or they can get real
awesome.
Sometimes they work, sometimesthey don't.
And the problem with conceptualshoots is when you're doing a
regular shoot without a conceptyou have– okay, I have these
(08:12):
three spots, I can shoot it withthese four different types of
lighting.
We get like, you know, nine, 10different sets.
Okay, we have a concept issue,we're shooting that concept and
if that doesn't work we areeffed.
You know, because there's somuch more that goes into concept
with like building stuff.
But sometimes it's so much morefun than just a normal photo
(08:32):
shoot.
So it varies.
It ebbs and flows.
Metal Maven (08:35):
Yeah.
Has there ever been a shootwhere you thought,"Oh my God,
this may not work," but then itended up being amazing in the
end?
Jeremy Saffer (08:45):
I'm sure there are.
I have the memory of Dory atbest.
So, I'm trying to think of it.
Metal Maven (08:53):
No worries.
Jeremy Saffer (08:53):
I know there's so many shoots where I get stressed
sometimes in the moment, whereI'm like, before the shoot I'm
messing with lighting.
I'm like,"Oh, this isn't gonnawork." And then I'll move
something and like,"Ah, thisdoesn't work," and will move
something like,"Ah, hell yeah,we got it.
This is it, awesome."
Metal Maven (09:07):
So just a little micro-adjustment and you're
like,"Okay, now I see what weneed to do."
Jeremy Saffer (09:11):
Yeah, most times.
Conceptual things are usuallylocked in pretty well.
I don't think there's any– therewas a concept I shot that didn't
work.
It was a very well-knownmetalcore band and we wanted to
do something with them– and thiswas early 2000s.
(09:35):
We wanted to do something withthem, kind of tied up with
shirts around their head andblood on the shirts, kind of
like a horror-inspired captivething.
And it ended up looking like–there was a beheading video that
came out, maybe the same week ofthat photo shoot.
And we looked at the photos andwere like,"Oh yeah, no, we can't
(09:59):
use this.
Nope."
Metal Maven (10:02):
It was just too similar?
Jeremy Saffer (10:04):
Oh, it look liked a straight-up terrorist kind of
thing.
Metal Maven (10:07):
Oh God...
Jeremy Saffer (10:08):
We were just like,"Okay, this doesn't come
off as horror, it comes off asyou know, 911 kind of stuff, and
it's not good." That was onesituation where it didn't work.
But I want to say that's withinthe first year of me doing photo
shoots where I was just notthinking about,"Oh okay, what–
(10:29):
you know, I'm just doing thisfor fun.
This was kind of aspur-of-the-moment thing– What
can this image mean to certainpeople negatively?" And usually
I don't care, I like pushing theenvelope.
That one was just a big nope.
Metal Maven (10:46):
Yeah.
I mean, you learn from thosethings though.
And then that stuff never leavesyour mind as you move on to
other projects.
You know, you just move on andget better as you go.
So, over the years, how wouldyou say your photography has
evolved?
What is your signature stylethat makes you stand out and
(11:06):
have your work featured onmagazine covers?
Jeremy Saffer (11:09):
Well, I don't know that I have a signature
style.
I know a lot of people say I do,but I'm not good at pinpointing
it, other people are.
I think if you do somethingenough, and no matter how
different it is, it all gets putinto the same Venn diagram, if
that makes sense.
Like, you do different things,but they all have your little
(11:30):
twist on it, but you don't seeit because you look at it as,
"I'm doing different things." SoI don't really know what my
signature style would be orwhat.
But I mean, that's the wholething about having a signature
look is a lot of photographersdon't know that they do.
(11:50):
And it's up to kind of– you knowthe same thing with art, where
it's up to the viewer to sort ofsay,"Okay, this is art and this
is not art," or,"This is asignature look and this is not,"
you know?
That's a really cool thing aboutart because it's not always the
artist's– you know, I thinkartists calling themselves
(12:11):
artist is such bullshit...
sometimes.
You know, it's just like an egostroke.
It's like, okay, you're apainter.
Sure.
You're a photographer.
Sure.
An artist?
That's up to them.
That's up to the critics.
That's not up to you.
But I mean, I guess if you makea living off it, you are what
you are.
I just don't see myself thatway.
(12:33):
I guess I look at myselfdifferently.
But, in terms of how myphotography has evolved, it's a
lot of trial and error.
A lot of, you know, changingdifferent types of lighting,
trying different types oflighting, getting new gear that
kind of changes the way youshoot certain things, looking at
(12:55):
what doesn't work in certainshoots.
You know when you have thatshoot where you're like,"Oh, if
I just did this differently,this would look so much more
awesome." And then you do thatdifferently in the next shoot
and make it better.
It's always about trying toimprove and learn: learn more
equipment, learn new things,learn new techniques, learn new
(13:17):
lighting, learn newer stuff.
As with anything technology isconstantly evolving, so
everything you do now is goingto be obsolete soon.
So you got to keep on learningand keep on figuring out ways to
better yourself.
Metal Maven (13:32):
Exactly.
So currently, what is yourweapon of choice in regards to
equipment and technique?
Jeremy Saffer (13:39):
Equipment is all over the place.
My cameras are all Canon (13:41):
1DX is my main, with a bunch of
different lenses.
My 24-70mm is probably my mainstudio.
The 85mm f/1.2 is probably mymain natural light and outdoors,
and I use that live as well.
My main live is likely my16-35mm along with the 85mm
f/1.2.
(14:03):
And then I also break out the15mm fisheye for live because
it's such an underused, livelens.
Canon discontinued it, whichdidn't help.
And then the 70-200mm I breakout every now and again in
studio, very rarely live, and Ihave a 2x extender I use if ever
(14:23):
there's a soundboard shoot,which aren't many because I'm
mostly not shooting, Beyonce andLady Gaga anymore.
Mostly doing metal.
Metal Maven (14:33):
Yeah, because I've seen you– you have this rig.
It's like a utility belt almostwhere you can just put the
camera down and quickly changeyour lens.
I've seen you in the pit whenyou're photographing live music.
So I was just wondering, howmany lenses do you keep on you
when you're in that kind ofsituation?
I know it varies from beingbackstage, at your home studio,
(14:55):
or something that's isolated andnot in that live setting.
I was just wondering what youhold on you when you're doing
that?
Jeremy Saffer (15:05):
Well, save from one lens, I usually have the
same lenses with me.
The 70-200mm is the only one Iwould ever leave at home and not
bring it with me to the show orshoot.
But usually, I have it with meand it always depends on the
venue.
I'll know what venue I'm goinginto and what the shooting
conditions are so I'll know ifthe stage is too high or not
wide enough, I won't bring myfisheye.
(15:25):
Well, I'll bring it, I justwon't really use it.
I always have the 16-35mm andthe 85mm f/1.2 on me at all
times for live.
For shooting in studio, I alwayshave the 24-70mm and 16-35mm at
all times.
Yeah, so those are pretty muchthe lenses I'll always have with
me (15:45):
85mm f/1.2, 24-72.8mm, and the fisheye.
Metal Maven (15:53):
Do you research what the band's performance is
before you go into it?
Because I know they havedifferent lighting and when
certain things change– do youresearch what the lighting would
be on stage for the bands thatyou're shooting for or do you
just go off of what the venueoffers?
I mean, or just what the venuehas initially?
Jeremy Saffer (16:14):
Well, most bands I shoot actually have their own
lighting and their own LD.
They'll have their own LightingDirector with them who will do
the lighting for the show.
But there's no way to reallyresearch that unless you watch
all the live clips from thattour.
And even then, if they're notbringing their own lighting with
them, which you know, some bandshave their own Lighting
(16:36):
Director, but not their ownlighting with them, it's going
to change every single night.
It's not going to be consistent.
So unless you're on the tourshooting multiple dates of the
tour, you don't really know whatyou're going into.
And you know, shooting multipledays of the tour, if you're
shooting more than the firstthree songs, is a great way to
get an idea of where to get thebest shots the second night, you
(16:58):
know, or the third night.
The first night, you're kind ofseeing it.
And when you're on a full tour,it's super easy to get all the
key shots because you know,you're seeing it 30 days in a
row.
Metal Maven (17:10):
Yeah, you know the pattern, you know everything.
Jeremy Saffer (17:14):
It's a lot of counting and that's something I
teach.
You'll watch the lighting andyou'll see it'll go, you know,
say red, green, yellow, red,green, yellow, red, green,
yellow with the music.
And if you count and get readyand you want to hit that yellow
because you don't want that red,you just wait for that green,
(17:35):
get ready to shoot, take thepicture when it hits yellow.
But the trick is you got to makesure the yellow lines up with
whatever the artist is doing infront of you.
And that looks cool because ifthey're doing something cool
when it's green and thensomething in between, or dumb,
when it's yellow, you kind ofgot to roll with the punches and
get the next shot.
Metal Maven (17:53):
So you have to be super aware and adaptable when
you're photographing liveperformances it seems like.
Jeremy Saffer (18:00):
Absolutely, because you're not really in
control of the ambient lighting.
If you shoot with a flash, whicha lot of people are very
against, a lot of bands say,"Noflash," a lot of venues say,"No
flash." I often use it when I'mallowed to.
I often ask the band who says,"No flash," to allow me to use
it because I don't use 100%, Iuse like 20% as fill.
(18:23):
And what that does is it locksin the artist and then I bleed
in the ambient lighting.
So if there's red lighting and Ihave this red, Hulk-looking
Hellboy creature in front of me,or this blue smurf or green Hulk
kind of, you know, what are yougoing to do with a photo of
that?
Turn it to black and white,that's the only thing you can
do.
But you add fill flash and theyget a natural skin tone.
(18:45):
You know, the white fill andthen you have all that red,
purple, and green, and whateverlighting behind them in the
photo.
So that's what I try to do whenI'm allowed to.
But sometimes the lighting isjust so dark that there's
nothing you can do other than,you know, you have to use flash.
And then other times thelighting's much more adequate,
especially if you're shooting insay, an arena.
(19:07):
So shooting something like AliceCooper, his lighting is
incredible and you know, I thinkthey have spotlights, I'm not
sure.
But either way, you don't need aflash with Alice Cooper because
there's so much lighting.
He's playing big, big, bigvenues.
Whereas metal bands, you know,they keep it dark, they keep it
creepy, they use lots of reds,and it's not as easy.
Metal Maven (19:27):
When you're in the pit.
I mean, I feel like most otherphotographers that are in there
with you are, you know, everyonekeeps it professional, but does
it ever get competitive downthere?
Do you get somebody who wants toreally get the right shot or is
it pretty amicable?
Jeremy Saffer (19:45):
It depends on the situation.
There's certainly beensituations where people have
thrown elbows and gotten kickedout of photo pits, and people
jumping in the way of otherpeople, and people getting
aggro.
I'd say there's more competitionon Facebook threads and more
negativity on Facebook threadsthen there is in a photo pit.
It happens, it is what it is,but you know, everyone's there
(20:09):
for different reasons.
I don't look at it ascompetition.
It's like I'm shooting for thisreason.
This photographer's not shootingfor the same reason I'm
shooting.
We're not in competition witheach other.
Yeah, we probably want similarshots, but you know, I'm not
going to steal his job.
He's not going to steal mine.
It's all good.
Metal Maven (20:25):
Alright, sweet.
Well, in regards toprofessionalism, there's also
more to being in a creativebusiness than just the actual
work– there's all the behind thescenes and you have to maintain
high reputation and integrity.
And I was wondering, what areyour standards and expectations
of yourself that got you to thispoint in your career?
Jeremy Saffer (20:46):
I'm not sure how to answer that properly, but I
would say in terms of mystandards and my reputation it's
just being professional at alltimes, being kind, being fair.
I don't know, and not beingshitty I guess.
Metal Maven (21:01):
That always works.
That always helps.
And always delivering amazingwork.
How much do you go over yourphotography and give it a
critical eye before you hand itover?
What is that behind the scenesfor you when you're basically
judging your own work and makingsure it's good enough to give to
your client?
Jeremy Saffer (21:19):
Oh, everyone's kind of their harshest critic.
A lot of times I'll handsomething in and then I'll be
told,"Hey, can you fix this,this, and this," and it's no
problem.
But, I look at everything asprint.
I don't look at it as, it's justanother image, you know?
I want to say like,"Okay, I wantto make this photo strong enough
(21:40):
where it could be used for aposter, used for a cover, used
for a photo print." I think ofthings in physical form.
I'm not thinking of,"Okay, thisis going on Instagram," and I
want everything to have thatsort of quality where it's worth
having on your wall, it's worthhaving in a magazine, because if
(22:04):
it's not, what's the point intaking it?
You know?
Metal Maven (22:08):
Like, if it's just has one use, then what's the
point?
You should have multiple– you'retrying to get the most out of
every photo that you take.
Jeremy Saffer (22:17):
Oh, absolutely.
Metal Maven (22:19):
Perfect.
Well, I know you also do otherphotography besides rock
photography.
And I just wanted to talk aboutyour passion work.
I know you just recentlyannounced your Daughters of
Darkness project that you'vebeen working on for almost a
decade.
Jeremy Saffer (22:33):
Sure, yeah.
Daughters of Darkness actuallyis the Corpse Paint project.
It's the title for it.
Metal Maven (22:37):
Oh, alright! Okay.
Jeremy Saffer (22:39):
The way it came about is, years and years and
years ago, my friend Karim, whowas, at the time, a Tour Manager
for like Napalm Death and BlackDahlia, and he works for Indie
Merch– he's the best dude.
He wanted to start a clothingline called NLSL Clothing and
there's a famous album cover ofa band called Pulp.
(23:02):
And the name of the album is,"This Is Hardcore," and it's a
girl face down with a red kindof pillow or background, and
she's just looking down.
And his concept was to shootthis with a model in corpse
paint and say, you know (23:20):
NLSL Clothing
And I'd shot plenty of blackmetal bands, black metal being
my favorite genre, you know,Immortal is my favorite band, so
it made sense.
And Karim and I had known eachother years, and so he was like,
"Yeah, do this, shoot." And Igot a model in and we did the
(23:46):
mock cover shoot, which ended upbeing on a shirt, and the
funniest thing, it was offsetprinting so it wasn't dead
center.
And if you look up the shirt youmight be able to find it.
If you look up The Pulp (23:58):
This Is Hardcore shirt, album cover, you
may find it.
It was basically printed on thebelly.
So when you put on this shirt,the corpse painted woman's face
is down, dead center on yourlower abdomen with a mouth open.
(24:24):
So it became the"black metalblowjob shirt."
Metal Maven (24:28):
Oh! Unintentional.
Jeremy Saffer (24:32):
Extremely unintentional, but super funny.
Metal Maven (24:36):
Oh my gosh.
Jeremy Saffer (24:36):
So when we did that shoot, I had worked with
that model a few times and itwas a nude shoot because the
woman is nude in the cover, andI've shot nude with this– well,
I've shot this model nudemultiple times, you know, for
fine art stuff.
We decided to kind of shoot morethan the gig.
We wanted to shoot, you know, ona background in the basement of
(24:58):
the studio, all around, do bunchof stuff in corpse paint.
And you know, I immediately waslike,"Oh this is awesome! This
is everything that I grew upon." So after doing that first
shoot, editing those photos, Iimmediately wanted to do a
(25:18):
project with it, and I thinkwithin days I lined up like 20
shoots for it and I wasn't surewhat that end result was going
to be.
I wanted to do at first, youknow, a series and then a
calendar, which I did put outtwo calendars years and years
and years ago, but that's a longtime ago.
And then I've been wanting toput out a book for years and
(25:39):
years.
But it just kind of like, I justkept on shooting.
I'm not good at stopping.
I'm not good at like letting goof things.
So it was just like,"All right,well there's these five models I
haven't shot yet, so I'll shootthem too." So then it turned out
to be, you know, 400 models I'veshot for this.
And the whole concept behind itis, I don't know if you ever did
(26:01):
this, when you were younger, youwould go into a music store, go
to the Metal section and startscanning through CDs or records
and not knowing who the band is–you saw a cool cover or cool
logo and you're like,"I'm goingto buy this because it's
probably going to be good." Andthen for me it was anytime I saw
a band with corpse paint on oryou know, all those classic
(26:22):
Napalm and, I'm forgetting theother label they were.
And even the old Cradle of Filthstuff.
You see this, you know, nudemodel in this beautiful
landscape and there's a blackmetal logo over it and you're
like,"Oh my God, this is goingto be the most epic album ever!"
And you either get this amazingBlack Metal or Doom record and
(26:43):
you had no idea but the cover iswhat sold you, it was the
imagery that sold you.
And that was really my passionbehind this project, because
it's like,"Oh okay, this is whatinspired all the music I grew up
on," you know?
Oh well, for me to grow up onit.
And it's kinda has that duality.
It really has that beauty andthe beast kind of thing, which
(27:04):
is– I always think is a coolthing.
Like"Legends" is one of myfavorite movies ever.
I love the whole duality ofthat.
So you have this– oh yeah, sucha good movie.
So you have this beautifulfigure and this evil jarring,
you know, corpse paint facedoing Black Metal poses or you,
(27:26):
you know, we mix it up.
There's some where they're doinglike straight up Black Metal
poses, some where they're doingmore elegant, you know, calmer
poses.
But all those photos have thatsort of duality to it where it's
evil, it's beautiful, it's dark,it's sometimes creepy.
It's, you know, it's a whole lotof all of that, which is what I
(27:49):
was going for.
And now we're finally, you know,I have new management now and
they're kind of setting up thegallery thing, looking for a
publisher, trying to get that tohappen.
Metal Maven (28:04):
That's awesome.
Jeremy Saffer (28:05):
Yeah.
And today I posted about it,which is probably what you saw.
Metal Maven (28:09):
Yeah.
Jeremy Saffer (28:09):
And then the cool thing was, from that post, a lot
came out of it.
A lot of galleries hit me up andsaid they're interested.
A couple dream venues, two dreamvenues hit me up and said,"Hey,
let's do this.
Let's make it happen." So Ifigure the gallery shows will
happen and then from there thebook will happen, and it'll be
(28:29):
awesome.
Metal Maven (28:30):
If it's featured at the Satanic Temple of Salem, I
have to go.
Jeremy Saffer (28:36):
My fingers are crossed, but–
Metal Maven (28:38):
Dude, so amazing if that happens.
Jeremy Saffer (28:40):
Yes.
Metal Maven (28:41):
I'm sending out the good vibes for that.
Jeremy Saffer (28:44):
Or the evil vibes?
Metal Maven (28:48):
Yes, the good/evil vibes.
Jeremy Saffer (28:49):
It's just such a perfect pairing if it happens.
So my fingers are crossed...
invertedly of course.
Metal Maven (28:55):
Of course.
So to conclude, I'd love todiscuss your Music Photography
Seminar and Workshop on May 25thand 26th in Chicopee,
Massachusetts.
You're passing on the knowledgeto help fledgling artists get
their foot in the door and levelup their skills.
What's the goal or fulfillmentfrom teaching others?
(29:17):
And of course, obviously, youknow, let's discuss what you'll
be doing in this seminar andworkshop.
Jeremy Saffer (29:22):
For sure.
I've been doing workshops forthe better part of a decade and
my whole thing was when I wasstarting, I reached out to a lot
of photographers who weren'thelpful.
They were very secretive.
They didn't want to give youtheir secrets, tell you how to
accomplish what you wanted toaccomplish because they've
(29:44):
looked at you as competition.
And I think that's not the rightway to do it.
I think that's a very bad way tobe.
You know, you want to help eachother out.
You want to be a community, youwant to teach people so they
don't have to go through thehardships you do.
I mean, there's a lot aboutpaying your dues and I
(30:05):
understand that, yes, you haveto pay your dues.
You don't get a free pass, butsharing your knowledge is not a
free pass, that's,"Okay, this iswhat I did to get there.
This is what you can do.
It might not work for you, butit's how I did it." And I don't
(30:25):
mind sharing this stuff.
I'm not a secretive person.
I'm not holding on to that andkeeping it from people because I
just think that's not the way tobe.
So in the seminar, this one'scalled,"Capturing Music." Or
actually, no, I finished thatone.
This one's just the music– it'sjust titled,"The Music
(30:46):
Photography Seminar andWorkshop." It's what I used to
do.
I used to do one called,"Capturing Music," but this
one's been extended.
It's basically two 8-10 hourdays, which they're long days.
And the first day is the seminarwhere it's basically a
PowerPoint for the firstmajority of the day, and I go
(31:06):
over everything from gettingpublished, getting paid, what to
charge, how to rate your stuff,how to sell your stuff, how to
send invoices, how to negotiatecontracts, lighting, using
different types of lighting,different lighting techniques, a
full lighting tutorial,]photobreakdowns where I'll have a
(31:29):
photo up there, talk about thelighting and then have a next
photo and have them try tofigure out the lighting.
And then I tell him what it is.
That kind of stuff.
Talking about concertphotography– so much more, it's
a very, very long but veryinformative and very thorough
slideshow.
And then after the slide show,we do a lighting tutorial where
(31:51):
I'll set up a full studio set,go over my equipment, show them
how it works and what I do withit, and the different types of
lighting I use.
And then they get to try it out.
The next day, I have guest bandscome in and then we do a Q&A and
they get to ask the bands stufflike,"What do you look for when
you hire a photographer?
(32:12):
What type of photographer wouldyou take on tour with you?" And
everything in between– thingsthat they normally don't get to
ask bands.
And then, I do a live photoshoot with a band and I have a
really, really cool one for thisupcoming one in Massachusetts.
So I'll do a photo shoot with aband and it's not a mock photo
shoot.
It's a legit photo shoot andit's being used.
(32:34):
And then after that photo shoot,the students take everything
they learned from the seminar,take everything they learned
from the lighting, and then theyuse my lighting to do different
photo shoots with the band, butI make it real life.
I become the Tour Manager and Isay,"Okay, you have three
(32:54):
minutes to get this shot beforethey have their Meet& Greet,
go!" Because that's a real lifesituation I've dealt with and I
feel like throwing them in therewhere they get more than one
chance– it's not like they haveone set.
They have probably 5-10 sets ofshoots with the guest bands and
guest artists.
So they get the hang of it,which is pretty cool.
You can see people are kind ofnervous at first and then by the
(33:17):
second or third round they'regetting into it.
They're giving direction,they're telling them how to
pose, they know the names, theyknow the lighting they want,
they know exactly what they'retrying to get, and it's awesome.
And then we wrap up and Iactually live edit a photo from
the photo shoot I just did, andI do a group shot, a solo shot,
(33:39):
a close up, one further away sothey could see every different
way I edit because I edit thosevery differently.
And yeah, I've been doing it forawhile and this is going to be
the last one I do on the Eastcoast.
I'm going to be announcing afinal West coast, a date for
this seminar, sometime, youknow, summer or fall.
And then the idea is like, thistakes so much out of me doing,
(34:03):
you know, two 8-hour days in arow plus talking in between, and
talking after, and all that thatI end up with a sore throat for
like a week and a half.
So, I just need to not do thatanymore.
I need to kind of, rather thanhaving, you know, 75 subjects I
touch on, kind of separated outso I can do more, not smaller
(34:29):
seminars per say, but basicallyfocus on one thing and maybe
take something like a lightingtutorial that's two hours long
and make it a 5-hour lightingtutorial.
Or take something like thebusiness and music photography
where we talk about pricing,invoicing, contracts,
(34:52):
negotiating, endorsement, andall that kind of stuff, and turn
it from like a little half-hoursegment into maybe a two-hour
kind of seminar.
And I can really go in and, wellyou know, this seminar's for
everybody, pros, amateurs, it'sa little bit for everybody.
Maybe I can do some seminars inthe future that aren't, some
(35:12):
that are for establishedphotographers who need to know
this, and then some that arespecifically for beginning
photographers who need to learnlighting.
So I'm definitely going tochange it up in the future.
These are going to be my lasttwo for a while for sure.
And these are definitely myfinal two all-inclusive 2-day,
super long seminars.
Metal Maven (35:34):
That is amazing.
I mean it's not just accessiblebut fully loaded.
I know if I was a beginnerphotographer I'd be like,"Thank
you for this," because sometimespeople, they just think about
the work, you know?
They think about the act of justtaking photography or, you know,
doing what needs to be donecreatively, and they're not
(35:55):
thinking about invoicing and thebusiness.
And then actually being there isdifferent than thinking about
going to do it.
And then you're giving them thechance to mess up, but not
officially.
You know, perhaps when you firststarted, you didn't have that
choice.
You were like,"I might make amistake today.
That's on me." And you can kindof teach them,"This is how I"–
(36:19):
you know, that feeling ofgetting thrown in at first.
You know?
Jeremy Saffer (36:23):
Absolutely.
When I started musicphotography, seminars didn't
exist.
When I started doing them, theydidn't exist, not to my
knowledge anyway.
And now there's a fewphotographers out there that do
them, which is great because youknow, it gives you that little
cushion.
It gives you that safety net ofbeing able to try it when it
doesn't count, when it's notgoing to go against, you know,
(36:45):
your professionalism and you'renot going to ruin an assignment,
or ruin a shoot for a band, orruin a shoot for a record label
and lose pay over it.
You know, you have the chance tojust do it, which is awesome.
Metal Maven (36:59):
It's also a level of– building up a level of
confidence.
You know, sometimes you getsuper scared before you do
something, you know, you're justkinda hyping yourself up and
you're like,"Maybe I'm not goingto get this done correctly." You
know, you have that anxiety.
And I think if people take thisseminar with you that they'll
just, they'll feel much morerelaxed in that first
(37:20):
environment they're in.
You know what I mean?
Jeremy Saffer (37:22):
Yeah, that's absolutely one of the biggest
things that students have saidhaving taken it.
They didn't have theirconfidence, they were scared to
pose bands.
One of the– a big thing aboutthe seminar is: Confidence Is
Key.
And that's something I bring upagain and again, and being able
to pose people and direct them.
(37:42):
And a lot of feedback I get frombands shooting them is,"Wow, you
actually direct us.
No other photographer does.
They just tell us to be evil."And what does that even mean?
And so I definitely come fromthe school of,"you need to
direct your shot because youneed to control it." And when
you see these students startingto shoot and they're just like,
(38:03):
"Um, hi," you know, they'rescared.
And then by the third or fourthset they're like,"You– chin
down, you– turn in this way, you– do the," you know, it's
awesome.
Metal Maven (38:14):
Yeah.
Jeremy Saffer (38:14):
And they leave with that confidence and then
the apply it.
I've had so many students go onto become published
photographers, touringphotographers, and then other
things in the music world.
One of my past interns andstudents was the tour manager
for Of Mice and Men.
Now he's the tour manager forDiplo.
Another one is the photographerand touring merch dude for
(38:36):
Silverstein.
Another one tours on WarpedTour, or two of them tour on
Warped Tour.
It's great to see these guys usewhat they learned and apply it
and get to the next level andget, you know, beyond that– way
beyond that– they just keptgoing and going.
The only way you can really failis to give up.
If you keep going, you'll getthere.
Metal Maven (38:58):
Definitely.
That sounds amazing.
I mean, it's confidence,discipline, and control.
It's like, you kind of needthose three things to make it in
this industry and that's whatyou're teaching people to find
in themselves.
It all starts inside.
Yeah, you can work a camera, youcan do that, but you have to
carry those traits with you whenyou're in this business.
Jeremy Saffer (39:21):
Absolutely.
It's pretty vital.
Metal Maven (39:22):
Oh my gosh.
So I'm super glad that you'reteaching people this because I
don't know, even in my own work,it's like, I've always been
trying to figure things out onmy own.
So when I see other people helpothers, it just, I don't know,
it makes me feel great,especially in our industry that
we work in, you know?
It's like, if more people canhelp others and have them
(39:47):
contribute to the musiccommunity, that's a great thing.
Jeremy Saffer (39:51):
Absolutely.
Metal Maven (39:52):
So is the East coast seminar sold out?
Because last I checked you onlyhad six tickets left, so I was
just wondering.
Jeremy Saffer (39:59):
Nope, there's still six tickets left.
Metal Maven (40:01):
Perfect.
All right guys,jeremysaffer.com/seminar– you
really should invest in yourphotographic future with him.
Jeremy Saffer (40:10):
Thank you.
Metal Maven (40:11):
All right.
Well Jeremy, that's all thequestions I have for you today,
and I really want to thank youfor taking time out of your
night to chat with me.
Jeremy Saffer (40:20):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much for having me.
Metal Maven (40:22):
You're welcome.
To view more of Jeremy'sphotography, including his
latest personal project, CorpsePaint, visit jeremysaffer.com.
And if you're interested inlearning the ins and outs of
music photography, check outJeremy's hands-on and in-depth
seminar happening in Chicopee,Massachusetts on May 25th and
26th.
(40:42):
Tickets are limited, so head tojeremysaffer.com/seminar now to
secure your spot and level upyour skills.
Visit metalmavenpodcast.com forlinks to Jeremy's social
profiles, videos, and read thefull transcript of this
interview.
Thanks for tuning in, and besure to subscribe to Metal Maven
Podcast on iTunes, Stitcher,Spotify, and Google Play.
Welcome to the Metal Maven Podcast, where we
explore and discover the processand passions of artists and the
metal music and art community.
The fourth episode of MetalMaven Podcast features rock
photographer, Jeremy Saffer.
His work has donned the coversof Metal Hammer, Outburn,
(00:22):
Revolver, Kerrang, and manymore.
Jeremy, welcome and thank youfor being here.
Jeremy Saffer (00:27):
Thank you for having me.
Metal Maven (00:28):
Of course.
So let's start from thebeginning.
You were originally a musicianbefore becoming a rock
photographer.
Can you talk about thattransformation and how you
changed your professional path?
Jeremy Saffer (00:40):
Yeah, without getting too too deep into it.
Basically I started as amusician who took photos of
other musicians that I wasplaying with.
My band opened up for a lot ofbigger bands and I would take
the photos to sort of show, hey,this is who we played with.
And then the promoter who bookedour shows, booked the bigger
(01:02):
shows, saw me shooting and hadme shoot all his local shows,
which are, you know, metal andhardcore shows.
And he worked for a biggercompany called Mass Concerts,
which ran, you know, ThePalladium, The Webster, all
these bigger venues, much more,you know, not global, but all of
New England.
And so I started shooting forthem as well, shooting concerts.
(01:23):
But it was very much, you know,a fan thing where, you know, I
shot concerts to get into theconcert for free so I could see
the bands I wanted to see.
But you know, they use thephotos and we all got something
out of it.
At the time I was still amusician.
Going to Berklee School of Musicwas like the dream.
And I got there and as I wasgoing to Berklee, I started
hating playing music and I wouldskip homework to shoot shows.
(01:48):
I was finding much more inphotography than music at the
time.
And after a few semesters I wentto, this person, Scott Lee and
asked him,"You know, hey I'mdropping out of Berklee.
I hate this.
I don't want to play music." Youknow, the thing with music is I
could play metal and love it.
(02:08):
If you ask me to play jazz, I'llhate it.
You ask me to play blues, I hateit.
If it's not metal I'll probablyhate it.
With photography, I could shootanything and love it.
So anyway, I went up to him andyou know, I was like,"I'm done
with Berklee, I don't know whatto do with my life." And he
asked me,"You know, what do youwant to do?
What do you like doing?
What do you have fun doing?" AndI said shooting shows, taking
(02:31):
pictures.
And he looked at me like I wasthe last person to get it.
He was like,"Do that." I didn'tthink of it as,"Okay, someone
can make a living at it." Ialways looked at it as like,"Oh,
I'm a fan who takes pictures ofbands that I like." I never
looked at it as I can make aliving or even a dime doing
(02:51):
this.
I always did it for fun.
And so I basically put down theguitar to pick up a camera and
just kept going.
And you know, started touring,went to a photo school for a
little bit.
It was a 10-month intensiveprogram kind of thing at
Hallmark Institute ofPhotography.
So I did that and I basicallyjumped off tour to go there,
(03:15):
went there, jumped right back ontour, and over the next two
years is when everything fromthose 10 months really soaked in
and I kind of understood what Ihad just gone through and all
those lessons, all the thingsI've learned, you know they were
– they become part of yourfoundation basically.
(03:36):
But it takes a while for thosethings to soak in as you
actually do them on the field.
It's one thing to be in thiscontrolled teaching environment
being told,"Okay this is how youlight this, this is how you
shoot this." And then it'sanother when you have abandoned
in front of you and you havefive minutes to shoot them
because they're about to go onstage and you have to nail it
and get it right.
And then you figure out,"Oh,this is what they said, would
(03:59):
happened, you know, time-wise ifyou shoot this way, if you light
this way, how to light itcorrectly." All that fun stuff.
And yeah, that's basically how Ikind of hit that fork in the
road and went to photography.
Metal Maven (04:13):
That's awesome.
But it's like, you love metalmusic, you're playing that as a
musician.
But now it was kind of like aneasy transition into being a
photographer because theenjoyment was there and it was
still in the arena that youwanted to be in.
You're still in the audiencetaking photos, you're still
backstage– you're still kind oflike, I don't know, in your
(04:36):
zone, in your location thatyou're supposed to be in and
thrive in.
Jeremy Saffer (04:39):
Oh yeah, for sure.
I'm definitely neck deep in themusic world.
I'm not very good at being likethe quote unquote artist, like
the photographer, if that makessense.
I'm much more like, you asked mewho a gallery owner is, I
couldn't tell you one.
You ask me who these well-known,super famous, amazing
photographers are, I know veryfew.
(05:01):
You ask me who a tour manager isfor any given band I'll give you
their name and what band they'reout with right now, and who the
guitar tech is, and who thetouring drummer is.
And you know, my world is verymuch music, more so than art.
And so I'm kind of...
the way Scott put it, you know,he's kind of my mentor, he's
like,"Okay, so you're like, youdidn't become a rock star by
(05:24):
playing music.
You became a rock star by beinga photographer.
I don't think I'm a rock star oranything like that.
I'm not that type of person orthat ego maniac or anything like
that, but I get what he meant.
It's more like I'm in the musicworld– I'm not in the art world.
It's just my instrument is acamera.
Metal Maven (05:42):
I think that lack of ego is to your advantage.
You are an amazing photographer,and you should know that and be
like,"I am great at this,"because you are Jeremy.
Jeremy Saffer (05:52):
I have my moments every now and again.
Metal Maven (05:54):
You have a lot of good moments I'll say that.
I mean, I've met you backstageand you're super professional,
you have everything set up readyto go, and it just seems like
you do it flawlessly.
Just to watch you transitionfrom backstage to in the pit and
then you're off taking photos inthe alley afterwards for
(06:15):
personal things that you maysell at your store.
So I was like,"He's got itdown."
Jeremy Saffer (06:21):
Oh, you'd have to after this many years.
Thank you very much.
Metal Maven (06:26):
You're welcome.
Jeremy Saffer (06:26):
It was a lot of trial and error for sure.
Metal Maven (06:29):
Oh yeah.
So, all of these people you knowand have met, and now that we
have your backstory, when anartist or a band or the band
manager contacts you, what isyour creative process start to
finish?
There's definitely more to itthan point and click.
Jeremy Saffer (06:46):
Well, every shoot is kind of its own thing,
everything's very different,there's no one path.
It's kind of a choose your ownadventure, if that makes sense.
So sometimes a magazine willassign me a photo shoot with a
band and they'll have a veryspecific concept.
Sometimes they'll be like,"Go doyour thing." And that's all
they'll say.
(07:06):
Sometimes a band will hit me upand hire me directly and say,
"You know, we have this reallyintricate idea.
We need a make up artist, weneed this, we need, you know, an
effects artists, we needextras." And then sometimes
bands are like,"Oh, I don'tknow, we just need a photo on a
background." And you know, it'smore up to me sometimes– it's
usually when there's an idea,it's very collaborative where
(07:28):
they'll come to me with aconcept and ask me how to make
it happen and I'll come up withsome ideas and we'll, you know,
tinker with it until we make ithappen or change the idea a
little bit.
So it's always different forsure.
You know, most times I would sayeight out of 10 times, there's
no concept.
It's just we're doing a photoshoot and it's up to the
(07:50):
lighting, the background, andthe band to kind of make that a
unique photo shoot so it doesn'tlook like every other photo
shoot and there's no concept.
And you know, concepts can getreal cheesy or they can get real
awesome.
Sometimes they work, sometimesthey don't.
And the problem with conceptualshoots is when you're doing a
regular shoot without a conceptyou have– okay, I have these
(08:12):
three spots, I can shoot it withthese four different types of
lighting.
We get like, you know, nine, 10different sets.
Okay, we have a concept issue,we're shooting that concept and
if that doesn't work we areeffed.
You know, because there's somuch more that goes into concept
with like building stuff.
But sometimes it's so much morefun than just a normal photo
(08:32):
shoot.
So it varies.
It ebbs and flows.
Metal Maven (08:35):
Yeah.
Has there ever been a shootwhere you thought,"Oh my God,
this may not work," but then itended up being amazing in the
end?
Jeremy Saffer (08:45):
I'm sure there are.
I have the memory of Dory atbest.
So, I'm trying to think of it.
Metal Maven (08:53):
No worries.
Jeremy Saffer (08:53):
I know there's so many shoots where I get stressed
sometimes in the moment, whereI'm like, before the shoot I'm
messing with lighting.
I'm like,"Oh, this isn't gonnawork." And then I'll move
something and like,"Ah, thisdoesn't work," and will move
something like,"Ah, hell yeah,we got it.
This is it, awesome."
Metal Maven (09:07):
So just a little micro-adjustment and you're
like,"Okay, now I see what weneed to do."
Jeremy Saffer (09:11):
Yeah, most times.
Conceptual things are usuallylocked in pretty well.
I don't think there's any– therewas a concept I shot that didn't
work.
It was a very well-knownmetalcore band and we wanted to
do something with them– and thiswas early 2000s.
(09:35):
We wanted to do something withthem, kind of tied up with
shirts around their head andblood on the shirts, kind of
like a horror-inspired captivething.
And it ended up looking like–there was a beheading video that
came out, maybe the same week ofthat photo shoot.
And we looked at the photos andwere like,"Oh yeah, no, we can't
(09:59):
use this.
Nope."
Metal Maven (10:02):
It was just too similar?
Jeremy Saffer (10:04):
Oh, it look liked a straight-up terrorist kind of
thing.
Metal Maven (10:07):
Oh God...
Jeremy Saffer (10:08):
We were just like,"Okay, this doesn't come
off as horror, it comes off asyou know, 911 kind of stuff, and
it's not good." That was onesituation where it didn't work.
But I want to say that's withinthe first year of me doing photo
shoots where I was just notthinking about,"Oh okay, what–
(10:29):
you know, I'm just doing thisfor fun.
This was kind of aspur-of-the-moment thing– What
can this image mean to certainpeople negatively?" And usually
I don't care, I like pushing theenvelope.
That one was just a big nope.
Metal Maven (10:46):
Yeah.
I mean, you learn from thosethings though.
And then that stuff never leavesyour mind as you move on to
other projects.
You know, you just move on andget better as you go.
So, over the years, how wouldyou say your photography has
evolved?
What is your signature stylethat makes you stand out and
(11:06):
have your work featured onmagazine covers?
Jeremy Saffer (11:09):
Well, I don't know that I have a signature
style.
I know a lot of people say I do,but I'm not good at pinpointing
it, other people are.
I think if you do somethingenough, and no matter how
different it is, it all gets putinto the same Venn diagram, if
that makes sense.
Like, you do different things,but they all have your little
(11:30):
twist on it, but you don't seeit because you look at it as,
"I'm doing different things." SoI don't really know what my
signature style would be orwhat.
But I mean, that's the wholething about having a signature
look is a lot of photographersdon't know that they do.
(11:50):
And it's up to kind of– you knowthe same thing with art, where
it's up to the viewer to sort ofsay,"Okay, this is art and this
is not art," or,"This is asignature look and this is not,"
you know?
That's a really cool thing aboutart because it's not always the
artist's– you know, I thinkartists calling themselves
(12:11):
artist is such bullshit...
sometimes.
You know, it's just like an egostroke.
It's like, okay, you're apainter.
Sure.
You're a photographer.
Sure.
An artist?
That's up to them.
That's up to the critics.
That's not up to you.
But I mean, I guess if you makea living off it, you are what
you are.
I just don't see myself thatway.
(12:33):
I guess I look at myselfdifferently.
But, in terms of how myphotography has evolved, it's a
lot of trial and error.
A lot of, you know, changingdifferent types of lighting,
trying different types oflighting, getting new gear that
kind of changes the way youshoot certain things, looking at
(12:55):
what doesn't work in certainshoots.
You know when you have thatshoot where you're like,"Oh, if
I just did this differently,this would look so much more
awesome." And then you do thatdifferently in the next shoot
and make it better.
It's always about trying toimprove and learn: learn more
equipment, learn new things,learn new techniques, learn new
(13:17):
lighting, learn newer stuff.
As with anything technology isconstantly evolving, so
everything you do now is goingto be obsolete soon.
So you got to keep on learningand keep on figuring out ways to
better yourself.
Metal Maven (13:32):
Exactly.
So currently, what is yourweapon of choice in regards to
equipment and technique?
Jeremy Saffer (13:39):
Equipment is all over the place.
My cameras are all Canon (13:41):
1DX is my main, with a bunch of
different lenses.
My 24-70mm is probably my mainstudio.
The 85mm f/1.2 is probably mymain natural light and outdoors,
and I use that live as well.
My main live is likely my16-35mm along with the 85mm
f/1.2.
(14:03):
And then I also break out the15mm fisheye for live because
it's such an underused, livelens.
Canon discontinued it, whichdidn't help.
And then the 70-200mm I breakout every now and again in
studio, very rarely live, and Ihave a 2x extender I use if ever
(14:23):
there's a soundboard shoot,which aren't many because I'm
mostly not shooting, Beyonce andLady Gaga anymore.
Mostly doing metal.
Metal Maven (14:33):
Yeah, because I've seen you– you have this rig.
It's like a utility belt almostwhere you can just put the
camera down and quickly changeyour lens.
I've seen you in the pit whenyou're photographing live music.
So I was just wondering, howmany lenses do you keep on you
when you're in that kind ofsituation?
I know it varies from beingbackstage, at your home studio,
(14:55):
or something that's isolated andnot in that live setting.
I was just wondering what youhold on you when you're doing
that?
Jeremy Saffer (15:05):
Well, save from one lens, I usually have the
same lenses with me.
The 70-200mm is the only one Iwould ever leave at home and not
bring it with me to the show orshoot.
But usually, I have it with meand it always depends on the
venue.
I'll know what venue I'm goinginto and what the shooting
conditions are so I'll know ifthe stage is too high or not
wide enough, I won't bring myfisheye.
(15:25):
Well, I'll bring it, I justwon't really use it.
I always have the 16-35mm andthe 85mm f/1.2 on me at all
times for live.
For shooting in studio, I alwayshave the 24-70mm and 16-35mm at
all times.
Yeah, so those are pretty muchthe lenses I'll always have with
me (15:45):
85mm f/1.2, 24-72.8mm, and the fisheye.
Metal Maven (15:53):
Do you research what the band's performance is
before you go into it?
Because I know they havedifferent lighting and when
certain things change– do youresearch what the lighting would
be on stage for the bands thatyou're shooting for or do you
just go off of what the venueoffers?
I mean, or just what the venuehas initially?
Jeremy Saffer (16:14):
Well, most bands I shoot actually have their own
lighting and their own LD.
They'll have their own LightingDirector with them who will do
the lighting for the show.
But there's no way to reallyresearch that unless you watch
all the live clips from thattour.
And even then, if they're notbringing their own lighting with
them, which you know, some bandshave their own Lighting
(16:36):
Director, but not their ownlighting with them, it's going
to change every single night.
It's not going to be consistent.
So unless you're on the tourshooting multiple dates of the
tour, you don't really know whatyou're going into.
And you know, shooting multipledays of the tour, if you're
shooting more than the firstthree songs, is a great way to
get an idea of where to get thebest shots the second night, you
(16:58):
know, or the third night.
The first night, you're kind ofseeing it.
And when you're on a full tour,it's super easy to get all the
key shots because you know,you're seeing it 30 days in a
row.
Metal Maven (17:10):
Yeah, you know the pattern, you know everything.
Jeremy Saffer (17:14):
It's a lot of counting and that's something I
teach.
You'll watch the lighting andyou'll see it'll go, you know,
say red, green, yellow, red,green, yellow, red, green,
yellow with the music.
And if you count and get readyand you want to hit that yellow
because you don't want that red,you just wait for that green,
(17:35):
get ready to shoot, take thepicture when it hits yellow.
But the trick is you got to makesure the yellow lines up with
whatever the artist is doing infront of you.
And that looks cool because ifthey're doing something cool
when it's green and thensomething in between, or dumb,
when it's yellow, you kind ofgot to roll with the punches and
get the next shot.
Metal Maven (17:53):
So you have to be super aware and adaptable when
you're photographing liveperformances it seems like.
Jeremy Saffer (18:00):
Absolutely, because you're not really in
control of the ambient lighting.
If you shoot with a flash, whicha lot of people are very
against, a lot of bands say,"Noflash," a lot of venues say,"No
flash." I often use it when I'mallowed to.
I often ask the band who says,"No flash," to allow me to use
it because I don't use 100%, Iuse like 20% as fill.
(18:23):
And what that does is it locksin the artist and then I bleed
in the ambient lighting.
So if there's red lighting and Ihave this red, Hulk-looking
Hellboy creature in front of me,or this blue smurf or green Hulk
kind of, you know, what are yougoing to do with a photo of
that?
Turn it to black and white,that's the only thing you can
do.
But you add fill flash and theyget a natural skin tone.
(18:45):
You know, the white fill andthen you have all that red,
purple, and green, and whateverlighting behind them in the
photo.
So that's what I try to do whenI'm allowed to.
But sometimes the lighting isjust so dark that there's
nothing you can do other than,you know, you have to use flash.
And then other times thelighting's much more adequate,
especially if you're shooting insay, an arena.
(19:07):
So shooting something like AliceCooper, his lighting is
incredible and you know, I thinkthey have spotlights, I'm not
sure.
But either way, you don't need aflash with Alice Cooper because
there's so much lighting.
He's playing big, big, bigvenues.
Whereas metal bands, you know,they keep it dark, they keep it
creepy, they use lots of reds,and it's not as easy.
Metal Maven (19:27):
When you're in the pit.
I mean, I feel like most otherphotographers that are in there
with you are, you know, everyonekeeps it professional, but does
it ever get competitive downthere?
Do you get somebody who wants toreally get the right shot or is
it pretty amicable?
Jeremy Saffer (19:45):
It depends on the situation.
There's certainly beensituations where people have
thrown elbows and gotten kickedout of photo pits, and people
jumping in the way of otherpeople, and people getting
aggro.
I'd say there's more competitionon Facebook threads and more
negativity on Facebook threadsthen there is in a photo pit.
It happens, it is what it is,but you know, everyone's there
(20:09):
for different reasons.
I don't look at it ascompetition.
It's like I'm shooting for thisreason.
This photographer's not shootingfor the same reason I'm
shooting.
We're not in competition witheach other.
Yeah, we probably want similarshots, but you know, I'm not
going to steal his job.
He's not going to steal mine.
It's all good.
Metal Maven (20:25):
Alright, sweet.
Well, in regards toprofessionalism, there's also
more to being in a creativebusiness than just the actual
work– there's all the behind thescenes and you have to maintain
high reputation and integrity.
And I was wondering, what areyour standards and expectations
of yourself that got you to thispoint in your career?
Jeremy Saffer (20:46):
I'm not sure how to answer that properly, but I
would say in terms of mystandards and my reputation it's
just being professional at alltimes, being kind, being fair.
I don't know, and not beingshitty I guess.
Metal Maven (21:01):
That always works.
That always helps.
And always delivering amazingwork.
How much do you go over yourphotography and give it a
critical eye before you hand itover?
What is that behind the scenesfor you when you're basically
judging your own work and makingsure it's good enough to give to
your client?
Jeremy Saffer (21:19):
Oh, everyone's kind of their harshest critic.
A lot of times I'll handsomething in and then I'll be
told,"Hey, can you fix this,this, and this," and it's no
problem.
But, I look at everything asprint.
I don't look at it as, it's justanother image, you know?
I want to say like,"Okay, I wantto make this photo strong enough
(21:40):
where it could be used for aposter, used for a cover, used
for a photo print." I think ofthings in physical form.
I'm not thinking of,"Okay, thisis going on Instagram," and I
want everything to have thatsort of quality where it's worth
having on your wall, it's worthhaving in a magazine, because if
(22:04):
it's not, what's the point intaking it?
You know?
Metal Maven (22:08):
Like, if it's just has one use, then what's the
point?
You should have multiple– you'retrying to get the most out of
every photo that you take.
Jeremy Saffer (22:17):
Oh, absolutely.
Metal Maven (22:19):
Perfect.
Well, I know you also do otherphotography besides rock
photography.
And I just wanted to talk aboutyour passion work.
I know you just recentlyannounced your Daughters of
Darkness project that you'vebeen working on for almost a
decade.
Jeremy Saffer (22:33):
Sure, yeah.
Daughters of Darkness actuallyis the Corpse Paint project.
It's the title for it.
Metal Maven (22:37):
Oh, alright! Okay.
Jeremy Saffer (22:39):
The way it came about is, years and years and
years ago, my friend Karim, whowas, at the time, a Tour Manager
for like Napalm Death and BlackDahlia, and he works for Indie
Merch– he's the best dude.
He wanted to start a clothingline called NLSL Clothing and
there's a famous album cover ofa band called Pulp.
(23:02):
And the name of the album is,"This Is Hardcore," and it's a
girl face down with a red kindof pillow or background, and
she's just looking down.
And his concept was to shootthis with a model in corpse
paint and say, you know (23:20):
NLSL Clothing
And I'd shot plenty of blackmetal bands, black metal being
my favorite genre, you know,Immortal is my favorite band, so
it made sense.
And Karim and I had known eachother years, and so he was like,
"Yeah, do this, shoot." And Igot a model in and we did the
(23:46):
mock cover shoot, which ended upbeing on a shirt, and the
funniest thing, it was offsetprinting so it wasn't dead
center.
And if you look up the shirt youmight be able to find it.
If you look up The Pulp (23:58):
This Is Hardcore shirt, album cover, you
may find it.
It was basically printed on thebelly.
So when you put on this shirt,the corpse painted woman's face
is down, dead center on yourlower abdomen with a mouth open.
(24:24):
So it became the"black metalblowjob shirt."
Metal Maven (24:28):
Oh! Unintentional.
Jeremy Saffer (24:32):
Extremely unintentional, but super funny.
Metal Maven (24:36):
Oh my gosh.
Jeremy Saffer (24:36):
So when we did that shoot, I had worked with
that model a few times and itwas a nude shoot because the
woman is nude in the cover, andI've shot nude with this– well,
I've shot this model nudemultiple times, you know, for
fine art stuff.
We decided to kind of shoot morethan the gig.
We wanted to shoot, you know, ona background in the basement of
(24:58):
the studio, all around, do bunchof stuff in corpse paint.
And you know, I immediately waslike,"Oh this is awesome! This
is everything that I grew upon." So after doing that first
shoot, editing those photos, Iimmediately wanted to do a
(25:18):
project with it, and I thinkwithin days I lined up like 20
shoots for it and I wasn't surewhat that end result was going
to be.
I wanted to do at first, youknow, a series and then a
calendar, which I did put outtwo calendars years and years
and years ago, but that's a longtime ago.
And then I've been wanting toput out a book for years and
(25:39):
years.
But it just kind of like, I justkept on shooting.
I'm not good at stopping.
I'm not good at like letting goof things.
So it was just like,"All right,well there's these five models I
haven't shot yet, so I'll shootthem too." So then it turned out
to be, you know, 400 models I'veshot for this.
And the whole concept behind itis, I don't know if you ever did
(26:01):
this, when you were younger, youwould go into a music store, go
to the Metal section and startscanning through CDs or records
and not knowing who the band is–you saw a cool cover or cool
logo and you're like,"I'm goingto buy this because it's
probably going to be good." Andthen for me it was anytime I saw
a band with corpse paint on oryou know, all those classic
(26:22):
Napalm and, I'm forgetting theother label they were.
And even the old Cradle of Filthstuff.
You see this, you know, nudemodel in this beautiful
landscape and there's a blackmetal logo over it and you're
like,"Oh my God, this is goingto be the most epic album ever!"
And you either get this amazingBlack Metal or Doom record and
(26:43):
you had no idea but the cover iswhat sold you, it was the
imagery that sold you.
And that was really my passionbehind this project, because
it's like,"Oh okay, this is whatinspired all the music I grew up
on," you know?
Oh well, for me to grow up onit.
And it's kinda has that duality.
It really has that beauty andthe beast kind of thing, which
(27:04):
is– I always think is a coolthing.
Like"Legends" is one of myfavorite movies ever.
I love the whole duality ofthat.
So you have this– oh yeah, sucha good movie.
So you have this beautifulfigure and this evil jarring,
you know, corpse paint facedoing Black Metal poses or you,
(27:26):
you know, we mix it up.
There's some where they're doinglike straight up Black Metal
poses, some where they're doingmore elegant, you know, calmer
poses.
But all those photos have thatsort of duality to it where it's
evil, it's beautiful, it's dark,it's sometimes creepy.
It's, you know, it's a whole lotof all of that, which is what I
(27:49):
was going for.
And now we're finally, you know,I have new management now and
they're kind of setting up thegallery thing, looking for a
publisher, trying to get that tohappen.
Metal Maven (28:04):
That's awesome.
Jeremy Saffer (28:05):
Yeah.
And today I posted about it,which is probably what you saw.
Metal Maven (28:09):
Yeah.
Jeremy Saffer (28:09):
And then the cool thing was, from that post, a lot
came out of it.
A lot of galleries hit me up andsaid they're interested.
A couple dream venues, two dreamvenues hit me up and said,"Hey,
let's do this.
Let's make it happen." So Ifigure the gallery shows will
happen and then from there thebook will happen, and it'll be
(28:29):
awesome.
Metal Maven (28:30):
If it's featured at the Satanic Temple of Salem, I
have to go.
Jeremy Saffer (28:36):
My fingers are crossed, but–
Metal Maven (28:38):
Dude, so amazing if that happens.
Jeremy Saffer (28:40):
Yes.
Metal Maven (28:41):
I'm sending out the good vibes for that.
Jeremy Saffer (28:44):
Or the evil vibes?
Metal Maven (28:48):
Yes, the good/evil vibes.
Jeremy Saffer (28:49):
It's just such a perfect pairing if it happens.
So my fingers are crossed...
invertedly of course.
Metal Maven (28:55):
Of course.
So to conclude, I'd love todiscuss your Music Photography
Seminar and Workshop on May 25thand 26th in Chicopee,
Massachusetts.
You're passing on the knowledgeto help fledgling artists get
their foot in the door and levelup their skills.
What's the goal or fulfillmentfrom teaching others?
(29:17):
And of course, obviously, youknow, let's discuss what you'll
be doing in this seminar andworkshop.
Jeremy Saffer (29:22):
For sure.
I've been doing workshops forthe better part of a decade and
my whole thing was when I wasstarting, I reached out to a lot
of photographers who weren'thelpful.
They were very secretive.
They didn't want to give youtheir secrets, tell you how to
accomplish what you wanted toaccomplish because they've
(29:44):
looked at you as competition.
And I think that's not the rightway to do it.
I think that's a very bad way tobe.
You know, you want to help eachother out.
You want to be a community, youwant to teach people so they
don't have to go through thehardships you do.
I mean, there's a lot aboutpaying your dues and I
(30:05):
understand that, yes, you haveto pay your dues.
You don't get a free pass, butsharing your knowledge is not a
free pass, that's,"Okay, this iswhat I did to get there.
This is what you can do.
It might not work for you, butit's how I did it." And I don't
(30:25):
mind sharing this stuff.
I'm not a secretive person.
I'm not holding on to that andkeeping it from people because I
just think that's not the way tobe.
So in the seminar, this one'scalled,"Capturing Music." Or
actually, no, I finished thatone.
This one's just the music– it'sjust titled,"The Music
(30:46):
Photography Seminar andWorkshop." It's what I used to
do.
I used to do one called,"Capturing Music," but this
one's been extended.
It's basically two 8-10 hourdays, which they're long days.
And the first day is the seminarwhere it's basically a
PowerPoint for the firstmajority of the day, and I go
(31:06):
over everything from gettingpublished, getting paid, what to
charge, how to rate your stuff,how to sell your stuff, how to
send invoices, how to negotiatecontracts, lighting, using
different types of lighting,different lighting techniques, a
full lighting tutorial,]photobreakdowns where I'll have a
(31:29):
photo up there, talk about thelighting and then have a next
photo and have them try tofigure out the lighting.
And then I tell him what it is.
That kind of stuff.
Talking about concertphotography– so much more, it's
a very, very long but veryinformative and very thorough
slideshow.
And then after the slide show,we do a lighting tutorial where
(31:51):
I'll set up a full studio set,go over my equipment, show them
how it works and what I do withit, and the different types of
lighting I use.
And then they get to try it out.
The next day, I have guest bandscome in and then we do a Q&A and
they get to ask the bands stufflike,"What do you look for when
you hire a photographer?
(32:12):
What type of photographer wouldyou take on tour with you?" And
everything in between– thingsthat they normally don't get to
ask bands.
And then, I do a live photoshoot with a band and I have a
really, really cool one for thisupcoming one in Massachusetts.
So I'll do a photo shoot with aband and it's not a mock photo
shoot.
It's a legit photo shoot andit's being used.
(32:34):
And then after that photo shoot,the students take everything
they learned from the seminar,take everything they learned
from the lighting, and then theyuse my lighting to do different
photo shoots with the band, butI make it real life.
I become the Tour Manager and Isay,"Okay, you have three
(32:54):
minutes to get this shot beforethey have their Meet& Greet,
go!" Because that's a real lifesituation I've dealt with and I
feel like throwing them in therewhere they get more than one
chance– it's not like they haveone set.
They have probably 5-10 sets ofshoots with the guest bands and
guest artists.
So they get the hang of it,which is pretty cool.
You can see people are kind ofnervous at first and then by the
(33:17):
second or third round they'regetting into it.
They're giving direction,they're telling them how to
pose, they know the names, theyknow the lighting they want,
they know exactly what they'retrying to get, and it's awesome.
And then we wrap up and Iactually live edit a photo from
the photo shoot I just did, andI do a group shot, a solo shot,
(33:39):
a close up, one further away sothey could see every different
way I edit because I edit thosevery differently.
And yeah, I've been doing it forawhile and this is going to be
the last one I do on the Eastcoast.
I'm going to be announcing afinal West coast, a date for
this seminar, sometime, youknow, summer or fall.
And then the idea is like, thistakes so much out of me doing,
(34:03):
you know, two 8-hour days in arow plus talking in between, and
talking after, and all that thatI end up with a sore throat for
like a week and a half.
So, I just need to not do thatanymore.
I need to kind of, rather thanhaving, you know, 75 subjects I
touch on, kind of separated outso I can do more, not smaller
(34:29):
seminars per say, but basicallyfocus on one thing and maybe
take something like a lightingtutorial that's two hours long
and make it a 5-hour lightingtutorial.
Or take something like thebusiness and music photography
where we talk about pricing,invoicing, contracts,
(34:52):
negotiating, endorsement, andall that kind of stuff, and turn
it from like a little half-hoursegment into maybe a two-hour
kind of seminar.
And I can really go in and, wellyou know, this seminar's for
everybody, pros, amateurs, it'sa little bit for everybody.
Maybe I can do some seminars inthe future that aren't, some
(35:12):
that are for establishedphotographers who need to know
this, and then some that arespecifically for beginning
photographers who need to learnlighting.
So I'm definitely going tochange it up in the future.
These are going to be my lasttwo for a while for sure.
And these are definitely myfinal two all-inclusive 2-day,
super long seminars.
Metal Maven (35:34):
That is amazing.
I mean it's not just accessiblebut fully loaded.
I know if I was a beginnerphotographer I'd be like,"Thank
you for this," because sometimespeople, they just think about
the work, you know?
They think about the act of justtaking photography or, you know,
doing what needs to be donecreatively, and they're not
(35:55):
thinking about invoicing and thebusiness.
And then actually being there isdifferent than thinking about
going to do it.
And then you're giving them thechance to mess up, but not
officially.
You know, perhaps when you firststarted, you didn't have that
choice.
You were like,"I might make amistake today.
That's on me." And you can kindof teach them,"This is how I"–
(36:19):
you know, that feeling ofgetting thrown in at first.
You know?
Jeremy Saffer (36:23):
Absolutely.
When I started musicphotography, seminars didn't
exist.
When I started doing them, theydidn't exist, not to my
knowledge anyway.
And now there's a fewphotographers out there that do
them, which is great because youknow, it gives you that little
cushion.
It gives you that safety net ofbeing able to try it when it
doesn't count, when it's notgoing to go against, you know,
(36:45):
your professionalism and you'renot going to ruin an assignment,
or ruin a shoot for a band, orruin a shoot for a record label
and lose pay over it.
You know, you have the chance tojust do it, which is awesome.
Metal Maven (36:59):
It's also a level of– building up a level of
confidence.
You know, sometimes you getsuper scared before you do
something, you know, you're justkinda hyping yourself up and
you're like,"Maybe I'm not goingto get this done correctly." You
know, you have that anxiety.
And I think if people take thisseminar with you that they'll
just, they'll feel much morerelaxed in that first
(37:20):
environment they're in.
You know what I mean?
Jeremy Saffer (37:22):
Yeah, that's absolutely one of the biggest
things that students have saidhaving taken it.
They didn't have theirconfidence, they were scared to
pose bands.
One of the– a big thing aboutthe seminar is: Confidence Is
Key.
And that's something I bring upagain and again, and being able
to pose people and direct them.
(37:42):
And a lot of feedback I get frombands shooting them is,"Wow, you
actually direct us.
No other photographer does.
They just tell us to be evil."And what does that even mean?
And so I definitely come fromthe school of,"you need to
direct your shot because youneed to control it." And when
you see these students startingto shoot and they're just like,
(38:03):
"Um, hi," you know, they'rescared.
And then by the third or fourthset they're like,"You– chin
down, you– turn in this way, you– do the," you know, it's
awesome.
Metal Maven (38:14):
Yeah.
Jeremy Saffer (38:14):
And they leave with that confidence and then
the apply it.
I've had so many students go onto become published
photographers, touringphotographers, and then other
things in the music world.
One of my past interns andstudents was the tour manager
for Of Mice and Men.
Now he's the tour manager forDiplo.
Another one is the photographerand touring merch dude for
(38:36):
Silverstein.
Another one tours on WarpedTour, or two of them tour on
Warped Tour.
It's great to see these guys usewhat they learned and apply it
and get to the next level andget, you know, beyond that– way
beyond that– they just keptgoing and going.
The only way you can really failis to give up.
If you keep going, you'll getthere.
Metal Maven (38:58):
Definitely.
That sounds amazing.
I mean, it's confidence,discipline, and control.
It's like, you kind of needthose three things to make it in
this industry and that's whatyou're teaching people to find
in themselves.
It all starts inside.
Yeah, you can work a camera, youcan do that, but you have to
carry those traits with you whenyou're in this business.
Jeremy Saffer (39:21):
Absolutely.
It's pretty vital.
Metal Maven (39:22):
Oh my gosh.
So I'm super glad that you'reteaching people this because I
don't know, even in my own work,it's like, I've always been
trying to figure things out onmy own.
So when I see other people helpothers, it just, I don't know,
it makes me feel great,especially in our industry that
we work in, you know?
It's like, if more people canhelp others and have them
(39:47):
contribute to the musiccommunity, that's a great thing.
Jeremy Saffer (39:51):
Absolutely.
Metal Maven (39:52):
So is the East coast seminar sold out?
Because last I checked you onlyhad six tickets left, so I was
just wondering.
Jeremy Saffer (39:59):
Nope, there's still six tickets left.
Metal Maven (40:01):
Perfect.
All right guys,jeremysaffer.com/seminar– you
really should invest in yourphotographic future with him.
Jeremy Saffer (40:10):
Thank you.
Metal Maven (40:11):
All right.
Well Jeremy, that's all thequestions I have for you today,
and I really want to thank youfor taking time out of your
night to chat with me.
Jeremy Saffer (40:20):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much for having me.
Metal Maven (40:22):
You're welcome.
To view more of Jeremy'sphotography, including his
latest personal project, CorpsePaint, visit jeremysaffer.com.
And if you're interested inlearning the ins and outs of
music photography, check outJeremy's hands-on and in-depth
seminar happening in Chicopee,Massachusetts on May 25th and
26th.
(40:42):
Tickets are limited, so head tojeremysaffer.com/seminar now to
secure your spot and level upyour skills.
Visit metalmavenpodcast.com forlinks to Jeremy's social
profiles, videos, and read thefull transcript of this
interview.
Thanks for tuning in, and besure to subscribe to Metal Maven
Podcast on iTunes, Stitcher,Spotify, and Google Play.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.