June 22, 2023 • 45 mins
Joining the MEternal Podcast is stand-up comedian and actress Angelina Spicer. Angelina's story on how she became an accidental advocate for maternal health will take mothers through the complexities of postpartum depression and how she is using comedy to reduce the stigma and shame associated with postpartum depression.
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(00:02):
Meternal done, and I thought thatgiving birth was the part you prepare for
and do and then you come outon the other side and you're like rocky
on the top of the stairs,like you know, like oh, I
did it. And it was like, oh no, you just getting started.
And that was the moment that ithit me like I'm not well and
(00:26):
I'm not feeling my best. Andthen it got worse. We actually went
home from the hospital and it waslike, oh, I actually have to
do this now every day, everyday. Welcome to Maternal, home to
access and information for mothers of color. Joining the Maternal podcast is stand up
(00:48):
comedian and actress Angelina Spicer. Angelina'sstory on how she became an accidental advocate
from Eternal Health will take mothers throughthe complexities of postpartum depression and how she
is using comedy to reduce the stigmaand shame associated with postpartum depression. Welcome
to Maternal. I am Kenya Gibsonhere with my co host Jay. Hello,
Jay, Hello, how are youtoday? Kid? Very very very
(01:11):
good and excited because we have avery special guest in the studio today,
Miss Angelina Spicer, stand up comedian, actress, and I saw here accidental
activists, So I want to talka little bit about how you became an
accidental activist. Let's get into it. Yes, man, let's get into
it. You want me to answer, right, yes, okay, all
right, I became an accidental activist. I don't know how. It's almost
(01:36):
like I was telling one of myfriends the other day, what's up everybody,
let me just start there. Yeahit was good, But yeah,
I was telling my friend, I'mthe kind of creative I'm the kind of
artist that when opportunities come, Isay opportunity, good ones come, I
say yes. And that's kind ofwhat happened here. It was like,
(01:57):
you know, I had a reallyhard time after I had my baby.
I'm a stand up comedian, soI tell my business for a living,
and that translated it to on stageand then on my social media, and
I was just like just talking aboutmy business and breastfeeding my daughter through the
bars of the crib after I gothome from from the comedy clubs and crazy
(02:20):
shenanigans like that. And then Istarted saying yes to appearances and yes to
advocacy, and yes to opportunities tojust tell the truth about motherhood and then
the next thing, you know,I'm like, oh, I'm actually like
advocating for somebody. Yeah stuff.Yeah, well I'm not even changing.
(02:42):
Just what I got to say isactually reflective of a whole lot of other
people. Had no idea. Wow, had no idea that just me telling
my business would end up me liketalking for anybody else. Had no idea
and like a legit advocate. Right, you work with Marcha. I worked
with March of Dimes. Our partnership. My partnership with Marcha Dimes has been
(03:05):
at least for like the past fouryears. It started with um the former
president and CEO, Stacy Stewart.Uh, she found me on Instagram.
What yes, she slid in myDMS. Not a slide You're right?
Maybe not? Maybe I should sayyou know that, ain't you right?
Right? Okay, I'm glad.I'm glad because you know these internets maybe
(03:30):
like wait, she's there. Youknow. The CEOs hit me up in
my DMS and was like, hey, I see the work that you're doing
with march for Moms. At thatpoint, I had done like a couple
of legislative days on the hill onCapitol Hill, and I had spoke at
spoken at a few events and stuff, and she she saw it and hit
(03:51):
me up. It was like,the next time you're in DC, I'd
love to take you to dinner.And I was like, because I've been
dying to work with March and NIMES. I really had been. And you
know, their nationally recognized organization.Um, their colors are cute. The
CEO was black at the time.She's a woman like I was, just
like all things it aligned, Italigned, and I didn't have to run
(04:15):
after it. Accidentally it came tome or on purpose, on purpose,
it came to me and I saidyes. And since then she's made sure
that, you know, um,the relationship works. And even after her
departure, March of Dimes has reallyjust like stood right beside me, held
my hand along the way, andjust have really advocated and helped a lot
(04:39):
of people. That's awesome. AndI want to just back up the bus
for a second. Come we're talkingabout postpartum Yeah, and I want to
talk about that journey, what thatwas like for you, because we talk
about that a lot on this podcast. Yeah. No, postpartum depression is
real, Jay, I know,right, you know, I know,
you know, you know if youknow, you know, um, and
if they I don't know now youknow, right, didn't Biggie say that
(05:02):
he did? He didn't. Okay, he wasn't a postpartum we you know
what he might have been the causefor some postpartum depression. Okay, somebody,
hello, did you hear that?The whole story with Faith and the
first baby mother it was crazy andthen little kid like it was. I'm
sure he was a sourcing some sortof the postpartum something. Absolutely absolutely.
(05:27):
I mean the music still bang,music still go hard. However, Biggie,
that's right. So anyway, um, yeah, I'm my postpartum depression.
I like, you know, itwas. It was immediate, you
know it was. It was immediate. It was as soon as they put
her on me. As soon asthey laid my daughter on my chest with
skin to skin, I was like, what the heck am I doing?
(05:50):
Where am I? Um? AndI thought the hard part was over.
I thought that giving birth was thepart you prepare for and do and then
you come out on the other sideand you're like rocky on the top of
the stairs, like you know,like, oh I did it, And
(06:13):
it was like, oh no,you just getting started right right right,
And that was the moment that ithit me like I'm not well and I'm
not feeling my best. And thenit got worse. We actually went home
from the hospital and it was like, oh, I actually have to do
this now every day, every day, somebody every day, and like it
(06:43):
was relentless. It just felt likeno light at the end of the tunnel.
It felt like an on going tripto Vegas that just did not end.
And it was like, give meout of here. You know,
have y'all been to Vegas? Ihave never been embarrassing. That's why you
didn't get that, all right,you Vegas? Okay? Got it?
(07:04):
Okay, you don't sleep, yeah, but it ain't this this postpartum period
of of of sleep deprivation feels likeyou're in Guantanamo Bay, Dad, Dad,
Dad, Man, I can't takethe punch lines. I'm gonna lie,
I'm gonna I'm gonna fall over.Seriously, Like it got worse.
(07:24):
And then we got home, youknow, and sleep deprivation. I wasn't
eating well, and then my daughterhad colic, and then my breast milk
was coming out too fast and toomuch. I'm like, nobody told me
I could have those problems. Sowhat was your conversation with your doctor like
as your goal? Great question.Um, I didn't think to reach out
(07:48):
to my doctor. The relationship wasn'tthere. I didn't like her. I
didn't like her. I felt underminedduring my pregnancy. I felt um with.
I had a lot of confusion aroundin my pregnancy, Like towards the
end, at thirty weeks, Iwas diagnosed with m I G you are
(08:09):
or iug are infant growth restriction iguare yes, so my daughter wasn't growing
accorded to them, crazy scales thatdoesn't don't make any sense, and she
I just felt like I never fullyunderstood what that meant. I knew.
I felt like I was threatened whenI was diagnosed, like, your daughter's
(08:31):
not growing. I don't know ifit's because she has a small brain or
a long femur bone, but shecould die in utero. And I'm like,
you don't think you need to likegive me a pamphlet, follow up
on zoom, like send me atext, call me the next day,
like what right? And I hadto do that for eight weeks, eight
(08:56):
weeks hoping that like Okay, Ihope I'm doing this right, I hope,
you know, I hope she doesn'tcome early, or I hope I
don't fail at this, right.And then you have the baby, and
then you feel like you you didall that hard work to make sure that
they're here and they're healthy, andyou keep them inside long enough, and
you barely make that and then youlook up and you're like, this is
(09:22):
just getting started them. And it'sa very critical phase, right, that
postpart. So many things happen canhappen in that phase, and I just
feel like it's often very overlooked,right to the point where I remember when
I had my kids, it waslike six weeks or so before I went
back to talk to anybody. Ijust had a major life change in my
body. And I'm not talking tosomeone until at least a month and a
(09:43):
half later, which, yeah,I was about to say that, like,
you might not make it that sixweeks check up. You know,
the baby goes to the hospital,or not to the hospital, but the
baby goes to the beaedutrician. Whattwo days after you get home from the
hospital, What about mama? Right? What about I mean the baby's fresh
(10:03):
shout? I am too right,right, And that's important to actually mention
because when you look at the waythat the US does postpartum care or just
pregnancy care in general. We have, however, many hundreds of appointments during
the nine months, right, butyou only have one postpartum visits. It's
crazy, like when you think aboutthat, that is a huge contributing factor
(10:26):
to why we have such high mortalityrates across the country. One of my
partners in the UK, they talkedabout how postpartum care is usually done by
midwives, so they're coming to thefamily's houses between day one in day ten,
come on now, just literally ifit's just to come in check on
(10:46):
the mom, double check with what'sgoing on with her body, asking the
questions, doing the clinical things thatmay be very minute to you because you're
going through all these changes, butcan be red flax to them, and
then giving that as a space tosay, you know what, you might
need to go to the hospital becausejust like you said, you're sleep deprived,
(11:07):
you're not eating, you probably didn'ttake a shower, your milk is
going everywhere, your mind is everywhere, So do you really have time to
really pay attention and write down,well, the baby wasn't eating or I
didn't feel like this or which boobdid that breastfeed the last round? Right,
Like was it the left or theright? Then you got one that's
in Gorge, Like, it's justit's a lot. It's a lot,
And from a resource level, itseems like there's not much available. But
(11:31):
what would you say is some goodresources that are out there now that are
available for mothers who are going throughthis. Well, I know Marchadimes has
a lot of comprehensive tool kits.They have a lot of They even released
a report card last year. Solast time I saw Jay actually in DC.
But yeah, they released a reportcard of each city, each state
in the country and how they're doingwith postpartum care. So I always point
(11:56):
people to Marchadimes plus the start.It starts with mom camp pain that I
just did that. I just didan episode on comes Out during Maternal Health
Week, and it's just like resourceslike that, like your podcast is a
resource, you know. Um.I never point people to Instagram for resources
(12:16):
because I'm like, it's it's acesspool of opinions, right, Um,
But I mean our ob GYNs arethe best resources, you know. But
there are focus groups and there areorganizations like marchin Dimes. I was point
people to their to their work justbecause I'm so much more familiar with the
legislative components and the grassroots efforts thatthey do across the nation. So there's
(12:41):
something for everybody with marchin Armes,and they will have you covered for sure.
Yeah. So your your experience asa mom? Now, okays,
is your experience as a mom?Then what questions would you have asked your
provider? Like, what would youhave changed if you could go back show?
Well, part of what I wouldchange is what I'm doing now.
(13:01):
Okay, My whole accidental activism careerspent off. Um all started from what
I wish I knew and what kindof community I wish I had when I
had just become a mom. Youknow. Um, so I started a
Facebook group that's very active. Wegive a lot of resources and information.
(13:24):
We share articles that I believe tobe factual. You know, the internet
is a it could be a wildplace. But yeah, and and and
women convene when I tour. Youknow, moms will link up in the
in in the group and then comeout to the show. So that's always
fun. Um, I forgot yourquestion. Please ask it again. No,
I was just saying, like,what questions would you ask? What
(13:46):
questions? When I ask um?I would flat out ask what is postpartum
depression? I would start there.I would ask as soon as I got
pregnant, I would ask what ispost partum depression? And what can I
do to make sure that if Ido get it, then I'm prepared?
And I would not accept an answerof oh, well, that doesn't happen
(14:09):
to so many people, or Iwouldn't worry about that. You have so
many other things to worry about.That's what doctors do. Yeah, you
ask a specific question and then theyundermine answering it. They undermine your point
of view or your fear, andthen minimize it, and then they move
on to something else. And it'slike, no, but if I'm worried
(14:30):
about this, I would like yourexpert opinion on the thing that I'm asking
you about, definitely not something else. So so yeah, I would flat
out ask. I would flat outask what is postpartum depression? And I
would like to have an ongoing conversationwith you about this As my pregnancy progresses
and the time comes near, Iwant to have those conversations with you and
(14:54):
with my husband about that. That'swhat I would do differently. I would
also, Oh, mommy and megroups didn't really work for me, did
you? They work for you,Jay, That's why I made Melanie Mom's
Girls. There were no mommy andme groups when I had. There might
have been, but I but evenif they had been right, even if
they had been, the ones Ihad were like, oh, oh,
(15:18):
it's your stomach going down, oroh, it's the baby's poop all right,
and oh, you're breastfeeding. OhI wish I could, or oh,
man, I didn't like breastfeeding.So it was just like, was
not super helpful. It was comparing. Yeah, everybody was comparing their journey
to the and I was like,I ain't nobody got time for this.
Yeah, I need a safe space, right, I need a safe space
to say this ain't working out?Yeah, can somebody help us sto out
(15:41):
and ask those questions and ask thosequestions? Of course, But it's like
whenever I came in a group withpeople that I didn't know and that motherhood
brought us together for the first time, like it just wasn't It was full
of pretentiousness, and it was Iwas just like, Hey, this ain't
right. And with postponem like yougo through so much like you have depression.
(16:02):
You could have moments of feeling suicidal. You could there's you can have
anxiety, you can have both.You could have baby blues but still be
confused. You know, you couldstill be confused or not understand the difference
between the two or the three postpartimdepression, anxiety and baby blues and psychosis.
You're thinking, I mean, thewhole thing is nuts. I would
have also asked about intrusive thoughts.Can we get a can clap for that?
(16:26):
After intrusive thoughts? Seventy percent ofwomen experience intrusive thoughts after they have
children. Break down what intrusive thoughtsare? Girl, Okay, here's a
comedian's version, because I didn't goto medical school. Okay. Intrusive thoughts
are scary thoughts that you have overand over again about the worst thing in
the world happening to either you,your baby, or both. They are
(16:49):
repeated thoughts of weird crazy I had. I used to and my intrusive thoughts
always came in like two in themorning, like that two or three clock
in the morning. Feed I'm inthe nursery by myself. It's dark,
you know, one nipples like shootingout milk, the other one my daughter's
(17:10):
gnawing on. It was just amess. And I was just like,
this is crazy. And I wouldjust like had these weird thoughts of like
a hawk coming in the room andlike biting my baby and carrying her out,
and then we got attacked my aunts. I was like, this is
weird, and why am I havingthis all the time, every single time?
(17:30):
And it was just it was itwas really, it was really scary
those thoughts. They were irrational.But had I known that seventy percent of
new mothers have intrusive thoughts, Iwould have felt okay talking to my obg
y in about it and maybe aclose girlfriend. So what was that turning
(17:52):
point for you when you said,all right, this is too much,
this is weird. I don't wantto hurt my baby. I don't want
to hurt myself. But I don'tknow how to deal with these thoughts.
I don't know how to deal withthese feelings. What was the next step
for you? Luckily I had atherapist, you know, I had a
therapist who she and I had arelationship for years. That's another thing I
tell mom's like, get your yourpostpartum care set up before the baby is
(18:17):
here. And your postpartum care includesdiapers for you, the baby, and
a therapist. You need a therapistbefore you have a baby, so that
you're not in the midst of youremotional and hormonal changes, that changes in
your relationship that we don't talk enoughabout trying to find a therapist. No,
ma'am, I'm gonna need you tohandle that like you handle your baby
(18:42):
a shallower registry, like you handleyour gender reveal, like you handle your
wedding plans. Get your therapists inorder. That is not a relationship you
want to start when you need itright boom. You can't do it in
crisis. No, you can't findit therapist in crisis. None of that.
But you asked me a different question, Jay, What you ask me?
(19:03):
Don't you answer? So yeah,you know, Um, there's a
lot that I would have that Iwould have asked, But I don't know
without having had the experience or theinformation that I would have pressed. You
know, I remember in a prenatalclass I asked about tearing. I was
(19:25):
nervous about tearing, and she waslike, well, either you're gonna tear
her, you're not gonna tear.Let's not to answer you. I was
like, okay, well you correct? Um. Can I get some the
names of some ointments, something,some spray you might recommend? You know,
do I wear a phone with abeat up vagina? Like? What
do I do here? What doI do? Right? So, so
(19:47):
anyway I would have pressed, Iwould have pressed a little bit harder.
The turning point came with my therapistm when I explained some of my intrusive
thoughts to her, she recommended thatI check into a psychiatric hospital. What
was that like a vacation? Itwas like a vacation compared to motherhood.
Highly recommend. Yes, that's hard. You don't hold that a lot.
(20:11):
Yeah, no, you never hearit. That's why I'm here, honey,
right to spread the good word,because the more moms seek help,
the more these spaces will be curatedspecifically for us. You know, if
I'm in crisis, which I was, and I decided to go to a
psychiatric unit for treatment, and I'mthe only woman, I'm the only black
(20:36):
woman, and I'm the only motherthere. If there were ten more like
me. We would all have ourown space. Ye, you're right,
right, And and imagine what thatvacation would feel like if you're there with
with other moms who need that kindof support, right, as opposed to
being on a floor with a bunchof Kanye's. But that's why I'm saying
that, that's why it's hard,right, so to be there and already
(21:00):
feel isolated, already feel theoretically crazy. Right, You're like, I don't
even know if I'm supposed to behere because I don't see anyone else here
that looks like me, or thathas this experience or that is a mom.
True, right, I was sosick that I needed I knew I
needed to be there, and Iwas very very happy and grateful for the
opportunity to go. Yeah. Andthat's another part of the advocacy, is
(21:26):
like, if you need help,whatever that looks like for you, get
it, Yeah, go get itwhatever that is, whether that's medication,
whether that's tumeric, whether that's youknow, a yoga retreat or an all
inclusive vacation to the Bahamas at thepsych ward, Go get the help,
you know, And it really thetime, my time at the psych ward
(21:49):
really helped me like recalibrate my mindof like what the expectations of me now
are and also helped my family recognizethat I was in crisis and that they
need they needed to do more right. And I'm like, all this time,
I didn't go to the psychod untileight months postpartum. It's a long
(22:11):
time. That's a very long timeto be crying out for help, to
be committed to therapy, to Itried mommy and me groups, I tried
a mommy and me Bible study,I tried yoga, I tried working out,
I tried I felt like I triedeverything, and you know, eight
(22:32):
months that's a very, very verylong time. But that's another thing.
We need to be honest about howlong these things last and how long do
we begin How long does it takefor us to feel like ourselves again?
Yeah, right, takes us along time. How long did it take
for you to start to feel likeyourself again? You know? I took
my first postpartum trip, solo tripwhen my daughter was twenty months old.
(22:55):
That's when I stopped breastfeeding. AndI was like, I'm like, maybe
ten months a year out of beinggoing to the psych ward, I'm gonna
go visit my best friend in Thailand, right And at that point, I
was just like, I need somespace for me. But then when I
came back, I started feeling anxiousagain. So I would say it took
(23:17):
like maybe three years. Wow,Yeah, it took three years for me
to feel like, Okay, Ihave a handle on her on the expectations
of me. Work life balance isstill you know, I'm still figuring that
out. But I didn't feel likeoverwhelmed, like not wanting to mom the
next day. You know, itwas easier to come home after having had
(23:41):
a break. Yeah, it was. It took a while, And that's
another thing I'm like, don't frontlike it's two weeks, honey, don't
front like you know, And maybeit is for some people, or maybe
there is no experience of anything beyondthe baby blues or any sort of major
shift or transition. But if thereis, be honest with yourself, and
be honest with the people around youwho love you, because they're looking at
(24:04):
you as an example of what theythink a good mother is, you know,
and it's important that we're honest notonly with ourselves but with each other
totally and there's no universal, onesize fits all approach, never because everybody's
going through something very different. LikeI didn't have I had a little bit
of postpartum, but it wasn't likeI felt the fraid or I wasn't there,
(24:27):
you know, and you know yourselfright of course, which is great
because you spoke up enough to say, hey, something's going on with me,
right, And so I guess foryou, like in your family,
what was like the breaking point forthem? Like how did they know?
Like wow, like this is thisis really serious and like we need to
really step up to the play andget her some help. I'll share one
(24:48):
story that I share in my documentarythat I'm making, and this is an
exclusive conduct, all right, allright, but no, I think that
there were a lot of signs there, and mostly from my husband, which
is another reason why I'd like toinclude men in these conversations because my husband,
he really did advocate for me andI didn't know it, but when
(25:11):
my daughter was about two months oldand when I first started having like intrusive
thoughts and the sleep deprivation really startedto get to me, he told me
one day at like the one amfeed that he had a dream that I
threw our daughter at him, andhe told me, he was like,
(25:32):
babe, I just had a thoughtlike that, you threw ava at me?
And I asked him, I said, well, did you catch her?
There was no awareness of the fearof that, because I had already
processed me throwing her at him inmy mind and the fact that he was
(25:57):
able or to sync up with melike that without me even having to share
that with him. And then hetold me, and then I reacted the
way I did, like, well, what did you do? Right?
And I think that's when he firstknew that something was off. And clearly
(26:18):
I did too, because I rememberit right, you know, And that's
very self aware. Yeah, butwhen you don't know what to do about
it, what do you do withthe self awareness? Right? So you
know. But that breaking point camewhen I was in the hospital, when
I was in the psychiatric unit,and my husband came to visit me,
(26:41):
and my mom came to visit me. My mom was in Atlanta. I
live in LA and my mom goton the flight twenty minutes after my therapist
called her and told her I wasgoing impatient, and my mom stayed with
my husband and helped him and helpedAva and it was it was it was
a beautifu symphony that they created,but it was out of necessity. And
(27:03):
that was when they were like somethingmajor has to change, something's got to
change. Well, good for yourfamily also for stepping up and understanding like
this is the assignment. It's notyou know, being dramatic, it's not
any of those things. This iswhere that unit really is important. And
when we go back to like whatwe were talking about with mommy groups and
(27:23):
all these other things, like it'sso critical to be able to have spaces
like that and to know where toseek them because there aren't always people that
have that support those support systems,right, And that is why I started
this accidental activism journey is because I'mlike, if I have access to a
therapist, I have an access toa mom who can get on a plane
(27:45):
within twenty minutes and come across countryand take off three weeks of work.
You know, I have access,I have a husband, I have insurance.
What about the teen mother My momgave birth to me at sixteen,
where was her support? What didher support look like? You know?
So it's like we have to dobetter for each other so much better for
(28:08):
each other. Yeah, you know, and it starts with our own awareness
of not minimizing our feelings, ofnot trusting our bodies, telling us that
girls, something ain't right. Trustyour body and speak up. You know
who, Choose somebody? Choose oneperson, Choose three people, Choose thousands
(28:30):
of people like I have in thecomedy clubs. Choose somebody to tell your
business too, so that you arenot stuck with these intrusive thoughts and these
intrusive emotions and confused about what todo. Right. And I also think
like, culturally we're always deemed verystrong. Oh girl, yeah that's strong
black woman. Yes, right,so weak help us us? Right?
(28:52):
And likewise, or I was justwe were talking about your mom, who's
a team mom. I was ateen mom, right, So I didn't
have anything to compare it to.Maybe I was going through a little bit
more than what I was going through, and I was just you know,
I had nothing to compare it to, right, you know, expectations.
Right, So now you know betterand you look back and you're like,
wow, maybe I was going througha little bit more than I was giving
(29:12):
credit to. And my mom hadthe same revelation. You know, seeing
me struggle and seeing me actively seekhelp. She was like, Wow,
I didn't realize how much I criedwhen you were a baby, and I
didn't realize how isolated I felt.And I felt like it was me and
you against the world, and thatI had to show up for you or
(29:36):
else we would not make it.That survival on a whole other level of
what I experienced, and I hadsevere postpartum depression. So it's like,
the fight is for the women whowere like my mom, right, the
fight is for the girls who wereat Howard like I was, like young
college girls having a good time.Like girls don't get pregnant, right,
(30:00):
that's not the moves. Yeah,have all the fun, do all the
things. Don't don't. Don't getpregnant when you don't, we don't have
the capacity, support, capacity,bandwidth, what emotional maturity. Don't do
it, girl, it will takeyou down. Well you know what I'll
say is it will definitely slow youup. Heck yeah, you know.
(30:21):
And I look back and it's notyou know, it's a choice that I
made. And I love my sonlike he's like the best thing that ever
happened to me. At the sametime, like I had to play so
much catch up. Yes, whereyou know a lot of people that were
around me who are my age,is like they didn't have to they didn't
have to go through certain kids,right, And it took me a little
bit longer to get to a placewhere I knew myself because I just had
to stop and be responsible for thisother human being. Yeah, and it
(30:45):
takes away. So you know,it's not the easiest, but you know
you all do it. Yeah,and you've done it with grace. I'm
sure, yes, you know whatI'm saying. But it's like, there's
so many women and who are whohave so many different circumstances, so many
different circumstances either teen mother or womenwho don't even aren't are in marriage captivity,
(31:12):
who can't get out of their marriages. Are you reading me right now,
a girl? I'm saying. I'mlike, they're women who can't who
aren't given permission to choose their ownhusbands, let alone the timing of when
they have children, where they havechildren, Do they have access to clean
water, do they have access toa hospital, Like, there's so many
(31:33):
other circumstances that women just push throughevery single day, and it's not a
matter of like me comparing my journeyto yours or me to you. Jay.
It's just mostly like, no,this is what's true to me.
This doesn't feel right to me.I need more help, and I'm gonna
get my help, you know.So that's sort of what started the work,
(31:59):
and I I feel really really passionateabout it because every time I speak
up and I talk about the experienceI had and that my family had,
you know, I hear so manyother amazing, triumphant stories of moms who
made it who didn't think they would, And I'm just like, we've got
to do more. We have todo more for younger women, for you
(32:22):
who want children. We got toset the expectations where they are, right,
girl, that's saying easy, youknow. So it's interesting though,
um, because I think we oftenthink that going into motherhood is like a
natural progression. You're gonna have allthe answers, you're gonna know exactly what
(32:42):
to do. Girl. Um,you look at your mother or the people
who've raised you, and you're like, oh, I can just do it
the way that they did it.But you're having a completely different human being
with a whole different partner whole differentlife, different circumstances, right, Um,
But I love to tell moms likeanacy is actually a form of advocacy.
So it's funny to me today.It's funny that you said that you're
(33:07):
an accidental advocate, but you reallyit's not an accident. Girl. You
going through that journey, You're seeingthe way that your body changed, all
the things that you needed in orderto be ready for the birth of your
daughter. All of that stuff isforms of advocacy, right. You're changing
your circumstances so that she can havea better version of you, and you're
(33:28):
moving all those other barriers out ofthe way so that she didn't get the
rest of you, she got thebest of you. Yeah, and laughter.
Laughter is the best medicine, right. So I love that you're layering
in your gift into your work andyou are funny girl. Thank you,
I mean, because you have to. It's like the conversation every we've tried
everything else, yeah, right,we've tried everything else. Beating people over
(33:52):
the head with the information, wetried scaring them, right, you know,
we tried. Uh. I won'tget political, but we've triedislation that
takes rights away from people without depositingany information, any resources. It's like,
we gotta do something different and wehave to bring people to this information
(34:14):
in a different way. And whichis another reason why I call this journey
accidental. I did not plan ortry to make postpartum depression funny. I
was just talking about my journey asa comic, you know, and it
just and God said, Tagger,it's that part. Yeah, speaking of
(34:37):
which I read that you do agreat Tira Banks. That's in my former
life. Money. Oh. Ididn't know I was gonna be on here
doing characters. Give us, giveus a little a little bit, just
a little bit. This is alittle bit. I don't want to number
one and number two Mackey using abad language. And I was sold language.
(35:02):
You put me on the spot alittle something, girl, I will
bad language your podcasts. Okay,don't do that. Don't do that to
me. Folks got to come seeme live, okay, okay, or
see me online. Following me ontiktokin everywhere a girl. Everybody's kids probably
(35:23):
following me on TikTok. I think, what's your TikTok funny? Angelina Spicer
my girlfriend friend, Yes, mygirlfriend text me the other day. No.
First of all, I didn't knowkids like young children. Yeah,
be on TikTok like that. Mymy daughter when she was four at daycare,
(35:44):
her friend came to school. Itwas like, I saw you on
your mommy's TikTok Eva, your mommy'sfunny. I was like, oh,
Lord, clean right, all theclean content on TikTok right, So here
your podcast, girl, Like Isaid, follow me on Techtok Techtok.
However, if you come to mycomedy show, we're gonna Oh, We're
(36:08):
gonna have a time. Girl,we talk about all the body parts,
all of them. Were you funnyas a kid. I don't know what
I was funny now though you are. I don't know how did this fas
start for you? Girl? Iwas how it started. Oh Lord,
I'm lowering the chair. Yes,Um, But no, I was telling
(36:32):
my daughter this other day. Ismy daughters in second grade? Um?
I was telling her that I'll neverforget. When I was in second grade,
my teacher pulled me to the sideand after school and told me to
get the dictionary and she told meto flip open and look up the word
tact. She said, Angelina Spicer, you need to work on your tact
(36:57):
because the way you just corrected yourclassmate in front of all his friends was
had no tact. It was tactless. Is that a word? I don't
know. I still don't know whattact means. Couldn't define it for you
right now, but I know thatwas the first time somebody told me get
it together, Angelaia, yeah,and I'm sure everybody thought it was funny.
(37:17):
I did. It's funny right now, so I guess that's why I'm
funny. You are, yeah,And I guess I was funny then inappropriate,
right, always inappropriate. That's whyI was like, if I can't
use bad language, just say thatbecause you are very receptive, right right
right? Yeah? We can cleanit up now, girl, But kids
just listening, and the kids justlistening to the kid, I hope not
(37:38):
mine. I haven't broken it downto her about postpartum yet. Any advice
be truthful. She's seven, sohow do we have this conversation with her?
I need some support, So Ithink you don't have an eighteen year
old daughter, right, So Ithink with her it was always just about
(38:00):
like being truthful about your feelings andwhat things feel like. What does sad
feel like, like, what doesthat look like? What does angry feel
like? Filtering through those emotions andeven when when things are happening in real
time, like addressing it right andnot being so afraid to not have those
conversations and talk about processing feelings.But I see that the things the thing
(38:21):
that makes me hesitant, and thatwhere I seek advice from people who follow
me and you know, my community. Let me just say that is like,
I don't want her to feel likethis is her fault. No,
I don't think you would. Ithink being candid with her of saying like,
this was my journey and I wantto talk to you about it so
(38:42):
it doesn't have to be yours.So just yeah, just open it up.
But what do I do? Andshe said, Mommy, but you
had a hard time because of me. No, I had a hard time
because of me. I like that, that's it, okay. I want
it to be the best version foryou, and it's not about you.
You you made me understand how importantit is for me to be present for
(39:04):
you and presents for yourself, right, And sometimes you're at the state where
you're not able to do that andyou can't give people what you don't have,
right. So I just think it'sabout being honest and transparent about that
and kids get more than they reallydidn't understand, more than we think they
do. Yeah, and I'm I'mafraid of that, aren't we all?
Yeah? Okay, but in thisguilt is real. Yes, it's showing
(39:28):
up in a different way right atthis point in my life and motherhood journey.
You know, mom guilt for mewhen she was a baby felt very
different from what mom guilt. Andthat's another thing that we need to talk
more about how mom guilt transitions andhow we need to get and how we
need to get rid of that.Yeah, girl, but you got to
identify it first. I didn't knowthat this was mommy guilt. Change the
(39:51):
language, but being aware of likethe words that you're saying to yourself and
to other people, that's what you'remanifesting. So if you want to manifest
forgive this, you want to manifestempowerment, You want to manifest like a
better positive outlook of whatever, ofeverything that happened. Change the way that
you talk about it, change theway that you interact with people and your
(40:12):
baby. Yeah, you know,like this is a gift that came in
a really ugly package. But Iunderstand why it's so worth it to be
what you need me to be now. In the moment, I didn't,
right, But like once you repackageit, once you understand like why you
went through that, it's not justso you can have funny stories and you
(40:32):
funny So it's definitely useful there,right, But it's also so that other
people can understand, like this isa part of other people's journeys too,
Okay, so if this happens tome, I can ask for help.
I won't feel ashamed, I won'tfeel isolated, I won't feel like it's
just me and all the stuff thatwe're talking about. And the whole purpose
of this podcast is to make surethat moms and birthing people don't feel like
(40:57):
these things are just them and nobodycan understand. Yeah, And I think
sometimes it is a simple it's justtelling yourself you're doing a good job,
yes, right, thank you?Yeah, And I'm a good mom,
right yeah, And that's simple things, right. Yeah. I just wonder
about this, about this conversation becauseI don't Yeah, my daughter tends to
(41:19):
feel like sometimes and she clearly won'tbe listening to this one until she's eighteen.
But yeah, my sense is thatshe feels she feels guilty for a
lot of things. She feels guiltyfor how when people are wishy washyhy towards
her, her friends, you know, and when things happen. But I
like your point of view, jabout how you repackage it. She knows
(41:44):
that I help moms. Yeah,that's how I framed it so far.
Yeah, and you're doing the work, thank you. Yeah. And I
think sometimes it comes down to justpraying God, praying to God and asking
God for wisdom on how to youknow, God, what am I supposed
to say? Like give me thewisdom in this right? You know?
So He's been very faithful in thatwith me. And how to break it
down to my kids? Yeah?Okay, yeah, wow, good stuff.
(42:07):
Well, we appreciate you coming uphere to the Maternal Podcast on iHeartRadio.
Yes, I am so thrilled,and y'all about to have me choking
up. Lord, I mean,you never see the comedian last I may
cry. You never see the comediancry. I'm like, Lord, I
can't here a cracking little jokes havea good time, And here is who
you Okay, let it out.They're happy tears. They are happy tears,
(42:29):
and I'm I'm I just feel reallygrateful that that I can maybe help
someone. Well you are now you'renot. Maybe you are helping somebody.
And I don't believe your whole accident. I believe that it's on purpose.
So maybe you need to start puttingthat out there, a purposeful at nah
girl, Yeah, I mean,if it's God's purpose, I found divine
(42:52):
intervention. Yeah, okay, divineintervention. I love that. Oh she's
like, we're gonna clean that upand make it look pretty because the way
you said, it's just like accident. Accident girl, I was, I
was. I wanted to be onS and L well, I wanted a
whole different journey. How I beup there talking about maternal healthcare, I'm
(43:14):
gonna be there doing it different,a different capacity. Reveal her pregnancy.
She did, she did, shedid well. Talked to Lauren Michaels.
Hello, Lauren Michaels. Lauren Michaels, do what she said doing, Lauren
Michaels. You know, but no, this, this this beautiful journey is
taking me way further than comedy alonecould have taken me and with so much
(43:39):
more purpose and so much more fulfillment. You know, Oh my gosh,
it's so amazing because it's supporting thepeople. Yes, it's supporting the people
in a way that they haven't feltsupported before. So it feels new for
both of us, you know,it feels fresh when our mom reaches out,
(44:00):
you know. Or like I wentto Israel to shoot my documentary and
I met with Muslim moms uh inthe Better Wind community, and I don't
speak Arabic, they didn't speak English. We were in the middle of the
desert where they lived. But like, the connection we had about this topic
(44:21):
was like no other comedy alone couldnot have done that. Yeah. See,
so I'm very, very very grateful. Yeah, we're grateful to have
you here today. Yes, sowe appreciate it. We hope you come
back. Girl, don't invite don'tdon't don't threaten me with a good comeback,
because I will not leave New Yorkto go back to I will camp
(44:44):
out by the receptionist, by thatbeautiful I Heart mural over there, I
will camp out, will be onstand by. Oh yeah, I'm stand
by. I'm gonna be here.I don't stand I'm here, Come on
with it, Come on with it. This has been fun. Oh my
god, so fun. So ladiesand gentlemen, Angelina Spicer, thank you
(45:06):
for coming up here today on theMaternal Podcast on iHeartRadio. I am Kenya
Gibson here with my co host JayWilson and until next time, all right,
aeus, thank you for listening tome. Eternal Angelina story and platform
have inspired millions mothers from all backgroundswill gain insight into the emotional and physical
(45:28):
changes associated with postpartum depression and waysthey can better navigate their maternal health journey.
Discover more ways mothers of color caneducate and empower themselves by visiting Meternal dot info
Meternal done, and I thought thatgiving birth was the part you prepare for
and do and then you come outon the other side and you're like rocky
on the top of the stairs,like you know, like oh, I
did it. And it was like, oh no, you just getting started.
And that was the moment that ithit me like I'm not well and
(00:26):
I'm not feeling my best. Andthen it got worse. We actually went
home from the hospital and it waslike, oh, I actually have to
do this now every day, everyday. Welcome to Maternal, home to
access and information for mothers of color. Joining the Maternal podcast is stand up
(00:48):
comedian and actress Angelina Spicer. Angelina'sstory on how she became an accidental advocate
from Eternal Health will take mothers throughthe complexities of postpartum depression and how she
is using comedy to reduce the stigmaand shame associated with postpartum depression. Welcome
to Maternal. I am Kenya Gibsonhere with my co host Jay. Hello,
Jay, Hello, how are youtoday? Kid? Very very very
(01:11):
good and excited because we have avery special guest in the studio today,
Miss Angelina Spicer, stand up comedian, actress, and I saw here accidental
activists, So I want to talka little bit about how you became an
accidental activist. Let's get into it. Yes, man, let's get into
it. You want me to answer, right, yes, okay, all
right, I became an accidental activist. I don't know how. It's almost
(01:36):
like I was telling one of myfriends the other day, what's up everybody,
let me just start there. Yeahit was good, But yeah,
I was telling my friend, I'mthe kind of creative I'm the kind of
artist that when opportunities come, Isay opportunity, good ones come, I
say yes. And that's kind ofwhat happened here. It was like,
(01:57):
you know, I had a reallyhard time after I had my baby.
I'm a stand up comedian, soI tell my business for a living,
and that translated it to on stageand then on my social media, and
I was just like just talking aboutmy business and breastfeeding my daughter through the
bars of the crib after I gothome from from the comedy clubs and crazy
(02:20):
shenanigans like that. And then Istarted saying yes to appearances and yes to
advocacy, and yes to opportunities tojust tell the truth about motherhood and then
the next thing, you know,I'm like, oh, I'm actually like
advocating for somebody. Yeah stuff.Yeah, well I'm not even changing.
(02:42):
Just what I got to say isactually reflective of a whole lot of other
people. Had no idea. Wow, had no idea that just me telling
my business would end up me liketalking for anybody else. Had no idea
and like a legit advocate. Right, you work with Marcha. I worked
with March of Dimes. Our partnership. My partnership with Marcha Dimes has been
(03:05):
at least for like the past fouryears. It started with um the former
president and CEO, Stacy Stewart.Uh, she found me on Instagram.
What yes, she slid in myDMS. Not a slide You're right?
Maybe not? Maybe I should sayyou know that, ain't you right?
Right? Okay, I'm glad.I'm glad because you know these internets maybe
(03:30):
like wait, she's there. Youknow. The CEOs hit me up in
my DMS and was like, hey, I see the work that you're doing
with march for Moms. At thatpoint, I had done like a couple
of legislative days on the hill onCapitol Hill, and I had spoke at
spoken at a few events and stuff, and she she saw it and hit
(03:51):
me up. It was like,the next time you're in DC, I'd
love to take you to dinner.And I was like, because I've been
dying to work with March and NIMES. I really had been. And you
know, their nationally recognized organization.Um, their colors are cute. The
CEO was black at the time.She's a woman like I was, just
like all things it aligned, Italigned, and I didn't have to run
(04:15):
after it. Accidentally it came tome or on purpose, on purpose,
it came to me and I saidyes. And since then she's made sure
that, you know, um,the relationship works. And even after her
departure, March of Dimes has reallyjust like stood right beside me, held
my hand along the way, andjust have really advocated and helped a lot
(04:39):
of people. That's awesome. AndI want to just back up the bus
for a second. Come we're talkingabout postpartum Yeah, and I want to
talk about that journey, what thatwas like for you, because we talk
about that a lot on this podcast. Yeah. No, postpartum depression is
real, Jay, I know,right, you know, I know,
you know, you know if youknow, you know, um, and
if they I don't know now youknow, right, didn't Biggie say that
(05:02):
he did? He didn't. Okay, he wasn't a postpartum we you know
what he might have been the causefor some postpartum depression. Okay, somebody,
hello, did you hear that?The whole story with Faith and the
first baby mother it was crazy andthen little kid like it was. I'm
sure he was a sourcing some sortof the postpartum something. Absolutely absolutely.
(05:27):
I mean the music still bang,music still go hard. However, Biggie,
that's right. So anyway, um, yeah, I'm my postpartum depression.
I like, you know, itwas. It was immediate, you
know it was. It was immediate. It was as soon as they put
her on me. As soon asthey laid my daughter on my chest with
skin to skin, I was like, what the heck am I doing?
(05:50):
Where am I? Um? AndI thought the hard part was over.
I thought that giving birth was thepart you prepare for and do and then
you come out on the other sideand you're like rocky on the top of
the stairs, like you know,like, oh I did it, And
(06:13):
it was like, oh no,you just getting started right right right,
And that was the moment that ithit me like I'm not well and I'm
not feeling my best. And thenit got worse. We actually went home
from the hospital and it was like, oh, I actually have to do
this now every day, every day, somebody every day, and like it
(06:43):
was relentless. It just felt likeno light at the end of the tunnel.
It felt like an on going tripto Vegas that just did not end.
And it was like, give meout of here. You know,
have y'all been to Vegas? Ihave never been embarrassing. That's why you
didn't get that, all right,you Vegas? Okay? Got it?
(07:04):
Okay, you don't sleep, yeah, but it ain't this this postpartum period
of of of sleep deprivation feels likeyou're in Guantanamo Bay, Dad, Dad,
Dad, Man, I can't takethe punch lines. I'm gonna lie,
I'm gonna I'm gonna fall over.Seriously, Like it got worse.
(07:24):
And then we got home, youknow, and sleep deprivation. I wasn't
eating well, and then my daughterhad colic, and then my breast milk
was coming out too fast and toomuch. I'm like, nobody told me
I could have those problems. Sowhat was your conversation with your doctor like
as your goal? Great question.Um, I didn't think to reach out
(07:48):
to my doctor. The relationship wasn'tthere. I didn't like her. I
didn't like her. I felt underminedduring my pregnancy. I felt um with.
I had a lot of confusion aroundin my pregnancy, Like towards the
end, at thirty weeks, Iwas diagnosed with m I G you are
(08:09):
or iug are infant growth restriction iguare yes, so my daughter wasn't growing
accorded to them, crazy scales thatdoesn't don't make any sense, and she
I just felt like I never fullyunderstood what that meant. I knew.
I felt like I was threatened whenI was diagnosed, like, your daughter's
(08:31):
not growing. I don't know ifit's because she has a small brain or
a long femur bone, but shecould die in utero. And I'm like,
you don't think you need to likegive me a pamphlet, follow up
on zoom, like send me atext, call me the next day,
like what right? And I hadto do that for eight weeks, eight
(08:56):
weeks hoping that like Okay, Ihope I'm doing this right, I hope,
you know, I hope she doesn'tcome early, or I hope I
don't fail at this, right.And then you have the baby, and
then you feel like you you didall that hard work to make sure that
they're here and they're healthy, andyou keep them inside long enough, and
you barely make that and then youlook up and you're like, this is
(09:22):
just getting started them. And it'sa very critical phase, right, that
postpart. So many things happen canhappen in that phase, and I just
feel like it's often very overlooked,right to the point where I remember when
I had my kids, it waslike six weeks or so before I went
back to talk to anybody. Ijust had a major life change in my
body. And I'm not talking tosomeone until at least a month and a
(09:43):
half later, which, yeah,I was about to say that, like,
you might not make it that sixweeks check up. You know,
the baby goes to the hospital,or not to the hospital, but the
baby goes to the beaedutrician. Whattwo days after you get home from the
hospital, What about mama? Right? What about I mean the baby's fresh
(10:03):
shout? I am too right,right, And that's important to actually mention
because when you look at the waythat the US does postpartum care or just
pregnancy care in general. We have, however, many hundreds of appointments during
the nine months, right, butyou only have one postpartum visits. It's
crazy, like when you think aboutthat, that is a huge contributing factor
(10:26):
to why we have such high mortalityrates across the country. One of my
partners in the UK, they talkedabout how postpartum care is usually done by
midwives, so they're coming to thefamily's houses between day one in day ten,
come on now, just literally ifit's just to come in check on
(10:46):
the mom, double check with what'sgoing on with her body, asking the
questions, doing the clinical things thatmay be very minute to you because you're
going through all these changes, butcan be red flax to them, and
then giving that as a space tosay, you know what, you might
need to go to the hospital becausejust like you said, you're sleep deprived,
(11:07):
you're not eating, you probably didn'ttake a shower, your milk is
going everywhere, your mind is everywhere, So do you really have time to
really pay attention and write down,well, the baby wasn't eating or I
didn't feel like this or which boobdid that breastfeed the last round? Right,
Like was it the left or theright? Then you got one that's
in Gorge, Like, it's justit's a lot. It's a lot,
And from a resource level, itseems like there's not much available. But
(11:31):
what would you say is some goodresources that are out there now that are
available for mothers who are going throughthis. Well, I know Marchadimes has
a lot of comprehensive tool kits.They have a lot of They even released
a report card last year. Solast time I saw Jay actually in DC.
But yeah, they released a reportcard of each city, each state
in the country and how they're doingwith postpartum care. So I always point
(11:56):
people to Marchadimes plus the start.It starts with mom camp pain that I
just did that. I just didan episode on comes Out during Maternal Health
Week, and it's just like resourceslike that, like your podcast is a
resource, you know. Um.I never point people to Instagram for resources
(12:16):
because I'm like, it's it's acesspool of opinions, right, Um,
But I mean our ob GYNs arethe best resources, you know. But
there are focus groups and there areorganizations like marchin Dimes. I was point
people to their to their work justbecause I'm so much more familiar with the
legislative components and the grassroots efforts thatthey do across the nation. So there's
(12:41):
something for everybody with marchin Armes,and they will have you covered for sure.
Yeah. So your your experience asa mom? Now, okays,
is your experience as a mom?Then what questions would you have asked your
provider? Like, what would youhave changed if you could go back show?
Well, part of what I wouldchange is what I'm doing now.
(13:01):
Okay, My whole accidental activism careerspent off. Um all started from what
I wish I knew and what kindof community I wish I had when I
had just become a mom. Youknow. Um, so I started a
Facebook group that's very active. Wegive a lot of resources and information.
(13:24):
We share articles that I believe tobe factual. You know, the internet
is a it could be a wildplace. But yeah, and and and
women convene when I tour. Youknow, moms will link up in the
in in the group and then comeout to the show. So that's always
fun. Um, I forgot yourquestion. Please ask it again. No,
I was just saying, like,what questions would you ask? What
(13:46):
questions? When I ask um?I would flat out ask what is postpartum
depression? I would start there.I would ask as soon as I got
pregnant, I would ask what ispost partum depression? And what can I
do to make sure that if Ido get it, then I'm prepared?
And I would not accept an answerof oh, well, that doesn't happen
(14:09):
to so many people, or Iwouldn't worry about that. You have so
many other things to worry about.That's what doctors do. Yeah, you
ask a specific question and then theyundermine answering it. They undermine your point
of view or your fear, andthen minimize it, and then they move
on to something else. And it'slike, no, but if I'm worried
(14:30):
about this, I would like yourexpert opinion on the thing that I'm asking
you about, definitely not something else. So so yeah, I would flat
out ask. I would flat outask what is postpartum depression? And I
would like to have an ongoing conversationwith you about this As my pregnancy progresses
and the time comes near, Iwant to have those conversations with you and
(14:54):
with my husband about that. That'swhat I would do differently. I would
also, Oh, mommy and megroups didn't really work for me, did
you? They work for you,Jay, That's why I made Melanie Mom's
Girls. There were no mommy andme groups when I had. There might
have been, but I but evenif they had been right, even if
they had been, the ones Ihad were like, oh, oh,
(15:18):
it's your stomach going down, oroh, it's the baby's poop all right,
and oh, you're breastfeeding. OhI wish I could, or oh,
man, I didn't like breastfeeding.So it was just like, was
not super helpful. It was comparing. Yeah, everybody was comparing their journey
to the and I was like,I ain't nobody got time for this.
Yeah, I need a safe space, right, I need a safe space
to say this ain't working out?Yeah, can somebody help us sto out
(15:41):
and ask those questions and ask thosequestions? Of course, But it's like
whenever I came in a group withpeople that I didn't know and that motherhood
brought us together for the first time, like it just wasn't It was full
of pretentiousness, and it was Iwas just like, Hey, this ain't
right. And with postponem like yougo through so much like you have depression.
(16:02):
You could have moments of feeling suicidal. You could there's you can have
anxiety, you can have both.You could have baby blues but still be
confused. You know, you couldstill be confused or not understand the difference
between the two or the three postpartimdepression, anxiety and baby blues and psychosis.
You're thinking, I mean, thewhole thing is nuts. I would
have also asked about intrusive thoughts.Can we get a can clap for that?
(16:26):
After intrusive thoughts? Seventy percent ofwomen experience intrusive thoughts after they have
children. Break down what intrusive thoughtsare? Girl, Okay, here's a
comedian's version, because I didn't goto medical school. Okay. Intrusive thoughts
are scary thoughts that you have overand over again about the worst thing in
the world happening to either you,your baby, or both. They are
(16:49):
repeated thoughts of weird crazy I had. I used to and my intrusive thoughts
always came in like two in themorning, like that two or three clock
in the morning. Feed I'm inthe nursery by myself. It's dark,
you know, one nipples like shootingout milk, the other one my daughter's
(17:10):
gnawing on. It was just amess. And I was just like,
this is crazy. And I wouldjust like had these weird thoughts of like
a hawk coming in the room andlike biting my baby and carrying her out,
and then we got attacked my aunts. I was like, this is
weird, and why am I havingthis all the time, every single time?
(17:30):
And it was just it was itwas really, it was really scary
those thoughts. They were irrational.But had I known that seventy percent of
new mothers have intrusive thoughts, Iwould have felt okay talking to my obg
y in about it and maybe aclose girlfriend. So what was that turning
(17:52):
point for you when you said,all right, this is too much,
this is weird. I don't wantto hurt my baby. I don't want
to hurt myself. But I don'tknow how to deal with these thoughts.
I don't know how to deal withthese feelings. What was the next step
for you? Luckily I had atherapist, you know, I had a
therapist who she and I had arelationship for years. That's another thing I
tell mom's like, get your yourpostpartum care set up before the baby is
(18:17):
here. And your postpartum care includesdiapers for you, the baby, and
a therapist. You need a therapistbefore you have a baby, so that
you're not in the midst of youremotional and hormonal changes, that changes in
your relationship that we don't talk enoughabout trying to find a therapist. No,
ma'am, I'm gonna need you tohandle that like you handle your baby
(18:42):
a shallower registry, like you handleyour gender reveal, like you handle your
wedding plans. Get your therapists inorder. That is not a relationship you
want to start when you need itright boom. You can't do it in
crisis. No, you can't findit therapist in crisis. None of that.
But you asked me a different question, Jay, What you ask me?
(19:03):
Don't you answer? So yeah,you know, Um, there's a
lot that I would have that Iwould have asked, But I don't know
without having had the experience or theinformation that I would have pressed. You
know, I remember in a prenatalclass I asked about tearing. I was
(19:25):
nervous about tearing, and she waslike, well, either you're gonna tear
her, you're not gonna tear.Let's not to answer you. I was
like, okay, well you correct? Um. Can I get some the
names of some ointments, something,some spray you might recommend? You know,
do I wear a phone with abeat up vagina? Like? What
do I do here? What doI do? Right? So, so
(19:47):
anyway I would have pressed, Iwould have pressed a little bit harder.
The turning point came with my therapistm when I explained some of my intrusive
thoughts to her, she recommended thatI check into a psychiatric hospital. What
was that like a vacation? Itwas like a vacation compared to motherhood.
Highly recommend. Yes, that's hard. You don't hold that a lot.
(20:11):
Yeah, no, you never hearit. That's why I'm here, honey,
right to spread the good word,because the more moms seek help,
the more these spaces will be curatedspecifically for us. You know, if
I'm in crisis, which I was, and I decided to go to a
psychiatric unit for treatment, and I'mthe only woman, I'm the only black
(20:36):
woman, and I'm the only motherthere. If there were ten more like
me. We would all have ourown space. Ye, you're right,
right, And and imagine what thatvacation would feel like if you're there with
with other moms who need that kindof support, right, as opposed to
being on a floor with a bunchof Kanye's. But that's why I'm saying
that, that's why it's hard,right, so to be there and already
(21:00):
feel isolated, already feel theoretically crazy. Right, You're like, I don't
even know if I'm supposed to behere because I don't see anyone else here
that looks like me, or thathas this experience or that is a mom.
True, right, I was sosick that I needed I knew I
needed to be there, and Iwas very very happy and grateful for the
opportunity to go. Yeah. Andthat's another part of the advocacy, is
(21:26):
like, if you need help,whatever that looks like for you, get
it, Yeah, go get itwhatever that is, whether that's medication,
whether that's tumeric, whether that's youknow, a yoga retreat or an all
inclusive vacation to the Bahamas at thepsych ward, Go get the help,
you know, And it really thetime, my time at the psych ward
(21:49):
really helped me like recalibrate my mindof like what the expectations of me now
are and also helped my family recognizethat I was in crisis and that they
need they needed to do more right. And I'm like, all this time,
I didn't go to the psychod untileight months postpartum. It's a long
(22:11):
time. That's a very long timeto be crying out for help, to
be committed to therapy, to Itried mommy and me groups, I tried
a mommy and me Bible study,I tried yoga, I tried working out,
I tried I felt like I triedeverything, and you know, eight
(22:32):
months that's a very, very verylong time. But that's another thing.
We need to be honest about howlong these things last and how long do
we begin How long does it takefor us to feel like ourselves again?
Yeah, right, takes us along time. How long did it take
for you to start to feel likeyourself again? You know? I took
my first postpartum trip, solo tripwhen my daughter was twenty months old.
(22:55):
That's when I stopped breastfeeding. AndI was like, I'm like, maybe
ten months a year out of beinggoing to the psych ward, I'm gonna
go visit my best friend in Thailand, right And at that point, I
was just like, I need somespace for me. But then when I
came back, I started feeling anxiousagain. So I would say it took
(23:17):
like maybe three years. Wow,Yeah, it took three years for me
to feel like, Okay, Ihave a handle on her on the expectations
of me. Work life balance isstill you know, I'm still figuring that
out. But I didn't feel likeoverwhelmed, like not wanting to mom the
next day. You know, itwas easier to come home after having had
(23:41):
a break. Yeah, it was. It took a while, And that's
another thing I'm like, don't frontlike it's two weeks, honey, don't
front like you know, And maybeit is for some people, or maybe
there is no experience of anything beyondthe baby blues or any sort of major
shift or transition. But if thereis, be honest with yourself, and
be honest with the people around youwho love you, because they're looking at
(24:04):
you as an example of what theythink a good mother is, you know,
and it's important that we're honest notonly with ourselves but with each other
totally and there's no universal, onesize fits all approach, never because everybody's
going through something very different. LikeI didn't have I had a little bit
of postpartum, but it wasn't likeI felt the fraid or I wasn't there,
(24:27):
you know, and you know yourselfright of course, which is great
because you spoke up enough to say, hey, something's going on with me,
right, And so I guess foryou, like in your family,
what was like the breaking point forthem? Like how did they know?
Like wow, like this is thisis really serious and like we need to
really step up to the play andget her some help. I'll share one
(24:48):
story that I share in my documentarythat I'm making, and this is an
exclusive conduct, all right, allright, but no, I think that
there were a lot of signs there, and mostly from my husband, which
is another reason why I'd like toinclude men in these conversations because my husband,
he really did advocate for me andI didn't know it, but when
(25:11):
my daughter was about two months oldand when I first started having like intrusive
thoughts and the sleep deprivation really startedto get to me, he told me
one day at like the one amfeed that he had a dream that I
threw our daughter at him, andhe told me, he was like,
(25:32):
babe, I just had a thoughtlike that, you threw ava at me?
And I asked him, I said, well, did you catch her?
There was no awareness of the fearof that, because I had already
processed me throwing her at him inmy mind and the fact that he was
(25:57):
able or to sync up with melike that without me even having to share
that with him. And then hetold me, and then I reacted the
way I did, like, well, what did you do? Right?
And I think that's when he firstknew that something was off. And clearly
(26:18):
I did too, because I rememberit right, you know, And that's
very self aware. Yeah, butwhen you don't know what to do about
it, what do you do withthe self awareness? Right? So you
know. But that breaking point camewhen I was in the hospital, when
I was in the psychiatric unit,and my husband came to visit me,
(26:41):
and my mom came to visit me. My mom was in Atlanta. I
live in LA and my mom goton the flight twenty minutes after my therapist
called her and told her I wasgoing impatient, and my mom stayed with
my husband and helped him and helpedAva and it was it was it was
a beautifu symphony that they created,but it was out of necessity. And
(27:03):
that was when they were like somethingmajor has to change, something's got to
change. Well, good for yourfamily also for stepping up and understanding like
this is the assignment. It's notyou know, being dramatic, it's not
any of those things. This iswhere that unit really is important. And
when we go back to like whatwe were talking about with mommy groups and
(27:23):
all these other things, like it'sso critical to be able to have spaces
like that and to know where toseek them because there aren't always people that
have that support those support systems,right, And that is why I started
this accidental activism journey is because I'mlike, if I have access to a
therapist, I have an access toa mom who can get on a plane
(27:45):
within twenty minutes and come across countryand take off three weeks of work.
You know, I have access,I have a husband, I have insurance.
What about the teen mother My momgave birth to me at sixteen,
where was her support? What didher support look like? You know?
So it's like we have to dobetter for each other so much better for
(28:08):
each other. Yeah, you know, and it starts with our own awareness
of not minimizing our feelings, ofnot trusting our bodies, telling us that
girls, something ain't right. Trustyour body and speak up. You know
who, Choose somebody? Choose oneperson, Choose three people, Choose thousands
(28:30):
of people like I have in thecomedy clubs. Choose somebody to tell your
business too, so that you arenot stuck with these intrusive thoughts and these
intrusive emotions and confused about what todo. Right. And I also think
like, culturally we're always deemed verystrong. Oh girl, yeah that's strong
black woman. Yes, right,so weak help us us? Right?
(28:52):
And likewise, or I was justwe were talking about your mom, who's
a team mom. I was ateen mom, right, So I didn't
have anything to compare it to.Maybe I was going through a little bit
more than what I was going through, and I was just you know,
I had nothing to compare it to, right, you know, expectations.
Right, So now you know betterand you look back and you're like,
wow, maybe I was going througha little bit more than I was giving
(29:12):
credit to. And my mom hadthe same revelation. You know, seeing
me struggle and seeing me actively seekhelp. She was like, Wow,
I didn't realize how much I criedwhen you were a baby, and I
didn't realize how isolated I felt.And I felt like it was me and
you against the world, and thatI had to show up for you or
(29:36):
else we would not make it.That survival on a whole other level of
what I experienced, and I hadsevere postpartum depression. So it's like,
the fight is for the women whowere like my mom, right, the
fight is for the girls who wereat Howard like I was, like young
college girls having a good time.Like girls don't get pregnant, right,
(30:00):
that's not the moves. Yeah,have all the fun, do all the
things. Don't don't. Don't getpregnant when you don't, we don't have
the capacity, support, capacity,bandwidth, what emotional maturity. Don't do
it, girl, it will takeyou down. Well you know what I'll
say is it will definitely slow youup. Heck yeah, you know.
(30:21):
And I look back and it's notyou know, it's a choice that I
made. And I love my sonlike he's like the best thing that ever
happened to me. At the sametime, like I had to play so
much catch up. Yes, whereyou know a lot of people that were
around me who are my age,is like they didn't have to they didn't
have to go through certain kids,right, And it took me a little
bit longer to get to a placewhere I knew myself because I just had
to stop and be responsible for thisother human being. Yeah, and it
(30:45):
takes away. So you know,it's not the easiest, but you know
you all do it. Yeah,and you've done it with grace. I'm
sure, yes, you know whatI'm saying. But it's like, there's
so many women and who are whohave so many different circumstances, so many
different circumstances either teen mother or womenwho don't even aren't are in marriage captivity,
(31:12):
who can't get out of their marriages. Are you reading me right now,
a girl? I'm saying. I'mlike, they're women who can't who
aren't given permission to choose their ownhusbands, let alone the timing of when
they have children, where they havechildren, Do they have access to clean
water, do they have access toa hospital, Like, there's so many
(31:33):
other circumstances that women just push throughevery single day, and it's not a
matter of like me comparing my journeyto yours or me to you. Jay.
It's just mostly like, no,this is what's true to me.
This doesn't feel right to me.I need more help, and I'm gonna
get my help, you know.So that's sort of what started the work,
(31:59):
and I I feel really really passionateabout it because every time I speak
up and I talk about the experienceI had and that my family had,
you know, I hear so manyother amazing, triumphant stories of moms who
made it who didn't think they would, And I'm just like, we've got
to do more. We have todo more for younger women, for you
(32:22):
who want children. We got toset the expectations where they are, right,
girl, that's saying easy, youknow. So it's interesting though,
um, because I think we oftenthink that going into motherhood is like a
natural progression. You're gonna have allthe answers, you're gonna know exactly what
(32:42):
to do. Girl. Um,you look at your mother or the people
who've raised you, and you're like, oh, I can just do it
the way that they did it.But you're having a completely different human being
with a whole different partner whole differentlife, different circumstances, right, Um,
But I love to tell moms likeanacy is actually a form of advocacy.
So it's funny to me today.It's funny that you said that you're
(33:07):
an accidental advocate, but you reallyit's not an accident. Girl. You
going through that journey, You're seeingthe way that your body changed, all
the things that you needed in orderto be ready for the birth of your
daughter. All of that stuff isforms of advocacy, right. You're changing
your circumstances so that she can havea better version of you, and you're
(33:28):
moving all those other barriers out ofthe way so that she didn't get the
rest of you, she got thebest of you. Yeah, and laughter.
Laughter is the best medicine, right. So I love that you're layering
in your gift into your work andyou are funny girl. Thank you,
I mean, because you have to. It's like the conversation every we've tried
everything else, yeah, right,we've tried everything else. Beating people over
(33:52):
the head with the information, wetried scaring them, right, you know,
we tried. Uh. I won'tget political, but we've triedislation that
takes rights away from people without depositingany information, any resources. It's like,
we gotta do something different and wehave to bring people to this information
(34:14):
in a different way. And whichis another reason why I call this journey
accidental. I did not plan ortry to make postpartum depression funny. I
was just talking about my journey asa comic, you know, and it
just and God said, Tagger,it's that part. Yeah, speaking of
(34:37):
which I read that you do agreat Tira Banks. That's in my former
life. Money. Oh. Ididn't know I was gonna be on here
doing characters. Give us, giveus a little a little bit, just
a little bit. This is alittle bit. I don't want to number
one and number two Mackey using abad language. And I was sold language.
(35:02):
You put me on the spot alittle something, girl, I will
bad language your podcasts. Okay,don't do that. Don't do that to
me. Folks got to come seeme live, okay, okay, or
see me online. Following me ontiktokin everywhere a girl. Everybody's kids probably
(35:23):
following me on TikTok. I think, what's your TikTok funny? Angelina Spicer
my girlfriend friend, Yes, mygirlfriend text me the other day. No.
First of all, I didn't knowkids like young children. Yeah,
be on TikTok like that. Mymy daughter when she was four at daycare,
(35:44):
her friend came to school. Itwas like, I saw you on
your mommy's TikTok Eva, your mommy'sfunny. I was like, oh,
Lord, clean right, all theclean content on TikTok right, So here
your podcast, girl, Like Isaid, follow me on Techtok Techtok.
However, if you come to mycomedy show, we're gonna Oh, We're
(36:08):
gonna have a time. Girl,we talk about all the body parts,
all of them. Were you funnyas a kid. I don't know what
I was funny now though you are. I don't know how did this fas
start for you? Girl? Iwas how it started. Oh Lord,
I'm lowering the chair. Yes,Um, But no, I was telling
(36:32):
my daughter this other day. Ismy daughters in second grade? Um?
I was telling her that I'll neverforget. When I was in second grade,
my teacher pulled me to the sideand after school and told me to
get the dictionary and she told meto flip open and look up the word
tact. She said, Angelina Spicer, you need to work on your tact
(36:57):
because the way you just corrected yourclassmate in front of all his friends was
had no tact. It was tactless. Is that a word? I don't
know. I still don't know whattact means. Couldn't define it for you
right now, but I know thatwas the first time somebody told me get
it together, Angelaia, yeah,and I'm sure everybody thought it was funny.
(37:17):
I did. It's funny right now, so I guess that's why I'm
funny. You are, yeah,And I guess I was funny then inappropriate,
right, always inappropriate. That's whyI was like, if I can't
use bad language, just say thatbecause you are very receptive, right right
right? Yeah? We can cleanit up now, girl, But kids
just listening, and the kids justlistening to the kid, I hope not
(37:38):
mine. I haven't broken it downto her about postpartum yet. Any advice
be truthful. She's seven, sohow do we have this conversation with her?
I need some support, So Ithink you don't have an eighteen year
old daughter, right, So Ithink with her it was always just about
(38:00):
like being truthful about your feelings andwhat things feel like. What does sad
feel like, like, what doesthat look like? What does angry feel
like? Filtering through those emotions andeven when when things are happening in real
time, like addressing it right andnot being so afraid to not have those
conversations and talk about processing feelings.But I see that the things the thing
(38:21):
that makes me hesitant, and thatwhere I seek advice from people who follow
me and you know, my community. Let me just say that is like,
I don't want her to feel likethis is her fault. No,
I don't think you would. Ithink being candid with her of saying like,
this was my journey and I wantto talk to you about it so
(38:42):
it doesn't have to be yours.So just yeah, just open it up.
But what do I do? Andshe said, Mommy, but you
had a hard time because of me. No, I had a hard time
because of me. I like that, that's it, okay. I want
it to be the best version foryou, and it's not about you.
You you made me understand how importantit is for me to be present for
(39:04):
you and presents for yourself, right, And sometimes you're at the state where
you're not able to do that andyou can't give people what you don't have,
right. So I just think it'sabout being honest and transparent about that
and kids get more than they reallydidn't understand, more than we think they
do. Yeah, and I'm I'mafraid of that, aren't we all?
Yeah? Okay, but in thisguilt is real. Yes, it's showing
(39:28):
up in a different way right atthis point in my life and motherhood journey.
You know, mom guilt for mewhen she was a baby felt very
different from what mom guilt. Andthat's another thing that we need to talk
more about how mom guilt transitions andhow we need to get and how we
need to get rid of that.Yeah, girl, but you got to
identify it first. I didn't knowthat this was mommy guilt. Change the
(39:51):
language, but being aware of likethe words that you're saying to yourself and
to other people, that's what you'remanifesting. So if you want to manifest
forgive this, you want to manifestempowerment, You want to manifest like a
better positive outlook of whatever, ofeverything that happened. Change the way that
you talk about it, change theway that you interact with people and your
(40:12):
baby. Yeah, you know,like this is a gift that came in
a really ugly package. But Iunderstand why it's so worth it to be
what you need me to be now. In the moment, I didn't,
right, But like once you repackageit, once you understand like why you
went through that, it's not justso you can have funny stories and you
(40:32):
funny So it's definitely useful there,right, But it's also so that other
people can understand, like this isa part of other people's journeys too,
Okay, so if this happens tome, I can ask for help.
I won't feel ashamed, I won'tfeel isolated, I won't feel like it's
just me and all the stuff thatwe're talking about. And the whole purpose
of this podcast is to make surethat moms and birthing people don't feel like
(40:57):
these things are just them and nobodycan understand. Yeah, And I think
sometimes it is a simple it's justtelling yourself you're doing a good job,
yes, right, thank you?Yeah, And I'm a good mom,
right yeah, And that's simple things, right. Yeah. I just wonder
about this, about this conversation becauseI don't Yeah, my daughter tends to
(41:19):
feel like sometimes and she clearly won'tbe listening to this one until she's eighteen.
But yeah, my sense is thatshe feels she feels guilty for a
lot of things. She feels guiltyfor how when people are wishy washyhy towards
her, her friends, you know, and when things happen. But I
like your point of view, jabout how you repackage it. She knows
(41:44):
that I help moms. Yeah,that's how I framed it so far.
Yeah, and you're doing the work, thank you. Yeah. And I
think sometimes it comes down to justpraying God, praying to God and asking
God for wisdom on how to youknow, God, what am I supposed
to say? Like give me thewisdom in this right? You know?
So He's been very faithful in thatwith me. And how to break it
down to my kids? Yeah?Okay, yeah, wow, good stuff.
(42:07):
Well, we appreciate you coming uphere to the Maternal Podcast on iHeartRadio.
Yes, I am so thrilled,and y'all about to have me choking
up. Lord, I mean,you never see the comedian last I may
cry. You never see the comediancry. I'm like, Lord, I
can't here a cracking little jokes havea good time, And here is who
you Okay, let it out.They're happy tears. They are happy tears,
(42:29):
and I'm I'm I just feel reallygrateful that that I can maybe help
someone. Well you are now you'renot. Maybe you are helping somebody.
And I don't believe your whole accident. I believe that it's on purpose.
So maybe you need to start puttingthat out there, a purposeful at nah
girl, Yeah, I mean,if it's God's purpose, I found divine
(42:52):
intervention. Yeah, okay, divineintervention. I love that. Oh she's
like, we're gonna clean that upand make it look pretty because the way
you said, it's just like accident. Accident girl, I was, I
was. I wanted to be onS and L well, I wanted a
whole different journey. How I beup there talking about maternal healthcare, I'm
(43:14):
gonna be there doing it different,a different capacity. Reveal her pregnancy.
She did, she did, shedid well. Talked to Lauren Michaels.
Hello, Lauren Michaels. Lauren Michaels, do what she said doing, Lauren
Michaels. You know, but no, this, this this beautiful journey is
taking me way further than comedy alonecould have taken me and with so much
(43:39):
more purpose and so much more fulfillment. You know, Oh my gosh,
it's so amazing because it's supporting thepeople. Yes, it's supporting the people
in a way that they haven't feltsupported before. So it feels new for
both of us, you know,it feels fresh when our mom reaches out,
(44:00):
you know. Or like I wentto Israel to shoot my documentary and
I met with Muslim moms uh inthe Better Wind community, and I don't
speak Arabic, they didn't speak English. We were in the middle of the
desert where they lived. But like, the connection we had about this topic
(44:21):
was like no other comedy alone couldnot have done that. Yeah. See,
so I'm very, very very grateful. Yeah, we're grateful to have
you here today. Yes, sowe appreciate it. We hope you come
back. Girl, don't invite don'tdon't don't threaten me with a good comeback,
because I will not leave New Yorkto go back to I will camp
(44:44):
out by the receptionist, by thatbeautiful I Heart mural over there, I
will camp out, will be onstand by. Oh yeah, I'm stand
by. I'm gonna be here.I don't stand I'm here, Come on
with it, Come on with it. This has been fun. Oh my
god, so fun. So ladiesand gentlemen, Angelina Spicer, thank you
(45:06):
for coming up here today on theMaternal Podcast on iHeartRadio. I am Kenya
Gibson here with my co host JayWilson and until next time, all right,
aeus, thank you for listening tome. Eternal Angelina story and platform
have inspired millions mothers from all backgroundswill gain insight into the emotional and physical
(45:28):
changes associated with postpartum depression and waysthey can better navigate their maternal health journey.
Discover more ways mothers of color caneducate and empower themselves by visiting Meternal dot info
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