Hot Pursuit: A True Crime Podcast Collaboration (Part 2)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Welcome back to Hot Pursuit, a summer true crime collaboration
where we continue our exploration of the tales of relentless
chases and summer crimes that kept us on the edge
of our seats. I'm your host Allison from Coffee and
Cases podcast, and today we bring you the final part
of our special series. And with me is my friend

(00:38):
Kristin from True Crime Creepers.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Today we're turning up the heat even more with fresh
tails from our fellow true crime podcasters. These stories capture
the essence of pursuit, the relentless drive to uncover the truth,
solve the unsolvable, and bring justice to those who need
it most.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Get ready for another round often intriguing and unforgettable true
crime stories. Let's dive into the final part of Hot Pursuit.
Let's begin our fresh pursuit with the Dark Oak Podcast,
where they cover mysteries but with a purpose. Their charity
called Branch of Hope Foundation shows their unwavering dedication.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
Hello shiver seekers, are you ready to follow us into
the unknown?

Speaker 4 (01:28):
I'm Cynthia and I'm Stephanie. You have found the Dark Oak.
In today's episode, we will tell you about the tragic
story of Robin Gardner, who disappeared from the beautiful Caribbean
island of Aruba while visiting with her travel companion Gary Giordano.
Gary says Robin was lost to a freak snorkeling accident,

(01:48):
but Robin's friends and family believe Gary is to blame.
Welcome to the Dark Oak, the mystery podcast with Purpose.
Each month, through our charity called the Branch of Hope Foundation,

(02:09):
we give back to a nonprofit organization related to the
first episode of the month.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
The stories we cover provide entertainment and excitement, but we
never want to lose touch with the human side of
each story. To find out more, head to our website
at the Darkoak dot com.

Speaker 4 (02:24):
Well, Cynthia, this is so fun a summer collaboration.

Speaker 3 (02:29):
I'm so excited. This is awesome.

Speaker 5 (02:32):
I know.

Speaker 4 (02:33):
I want to thank the girlies from True Crime, Creepers
and Coffee and Cases for inviting us to be part
of this collab. Kristin and Allison, you guys rock.

Speaker 3 (02:42):
I love the idea that we're all out China support
each other. That's amazing.

Speaker 6 (02:45):
I agree.

Speaker 4 (02:46):
So today I thought I could let our gorgeous listeners
in on our latest summer case, which is dropping hat
right now.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
Oh, look at you bringing in the summer fun with
the hot hats.

Speaker 4 (02:58):
Now, this may not be a case you're super familiar with,
but I know you recognize the name Natalie Holloway.

Speaker 3 (03:05):
I absolutely do. Was just listening to a podcast on
her the other day.

Speaker 4 (03:09):
It's incredible. I cannot believe they've finally convicted Vander salute.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
Oh my gosh, thank goodness.

Speaker 6 (03:15):
Vander shooteugh. Yeah, he's disgusting.

Speaker 4 (03:18):
But did you also know that Robin Gardner is a
beautiful American blonde woman who vanished in the Caribbean island
of Aruba. I don't think I've heard of this case.
It's the perfect summer case for us. In August of
twenty eleven, thirty five year old Robin traveled to Aruba
with her fifty year old travel companion, Gary Giordano, who
was a possible secret lover.

Speaker 3 (03:40):
Okay, this sounds a little scandalous.

Speaker 4 (03:43):
A little two days into their trip, Robin vanished. Now,
Robin was described as a total girly girl and someone
who appeared to have it all together. She loved to travel,
she loved her two cats, Kobe and Tunsi, and she
enjoyed shows like the Real Housewives of New York. She
also enjoyed the finer thing in life and took pride
in her appearance. Unsurprisingly, she also liked being treated like

(04:04):
a lady.

Speaker 3 (04:05):
Okay, I think I'd be her friend.

Speaker 4 (04:07):
Yeah, she sounds pretty hip. In two thousand and nine,
Robin began dating Richard Forrester, who she met on match
dot Com. They were together two and a half years
before Robin's trip to Aruba. According to Richard, it was
an instant connection. He said, quote, she was outgoing and
very friendly. She got along with everybody. She loved to
play tennis, run and stay active. And Richard paints a

(04:29):
picture of a fairytale romance. But unbeknownst to Richard, Robin
was still active on match dot com.

Speaker 3 (04:36):
Oh my, after two and a half years. After two
and a half years, she didn't just forget to cancel,
because I did actually forget to cancel mine.

Speaker 4 (04:44):
But I wish I could say that was the case.
But unfortunately she was very active. Oh because this is
where she met Gary Jordana.

Speaker 3 (04:53):
Oh my goodness.

Speaker 6 (04:54):
Okay. And it's hard to tell.

Speaker 4 (04:55):
If they were an intimate relationship or more of a
transaction one. There are a lot more details to this,
but let's just say their relationship fell somewhere between friendship
and dating.

Speaker 6 (05:08):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (05:08):
I feel like there may be a third option there
as there was some insinuation that maybe Robin was even
an escort, But honestly, there's no evidence to back up
any of us, so we don't know. We just know
they had some kind of intimate relationship.

Speaker 3 (05:24):
Did Richard know about Gary's existence?

Speaker 4 (05:27):
Richard was clueless about Gary's existence, Okay, which makes this
even harder. Robin and Gary carried on this relationship for
a year before Robin's disappearance.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
Okay, so this was like a long time of keeping secrets.

Speaker 6 (05:42):
Long time at keeping secrets.

Speaker 4 (05:44):
Over the year Robin and Gary were in contact, Gary
was consistently asking Robin to join him on exotic trips
and was a little short to bird whenever Robin would
say no, which is concerning.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
Has some red flags for sure.

Speaker 4 (05:58):
Robin had always declined on any of these trips up
to this point, but things changed for her when her
life took a bit of a rocky turn. Robin lost
her job as a dental coordinator, and this took a
toll on her. It really kind of got her down.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
Sure, it's a hit to the pride for sure.

Speaker 4 (06:13):
Sure it was during this tumultuous time, right after a
fight with Richard that Robin made what I think is
a terrible lapse in judgment and a pretty knee jerk
decision to go to Aruba with Gary.

Speaker 3 (06:27):
Had she ever met Gary in person before?

Speaker 6 (06:29):
No, not that I know of. Okay.

Speaker 4 (06:32):
Gary seems to say, of course, after the fact, that
they were very, very close. Yet he's never provided any
evidence that they've met each other outside of this arranged meeting.

Speaker 3 (06:43):
And where did Richard think she was going?

Speaker 4 (06:45):
Richard thought she was going to Florida to meet with
her parents, which would not have been unusual as a
matter of fact, going to Orlando to meet her parents. Oh, okay,
where we're recording from, that's right, So he's thinking she's
in Florida with her family. Meanwhile she's Aruba with Gary.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
Who she's just meeting for the first time in person. Yeah, okay,
tell me more.

Speaker 4 (07:06):
On the second day of their trip, at approximately three pm,
Robin and Gary popped in for lunch at the Rum
Reef Bar and Grill on Baby Beach, which is a
beach surrounding a protected lagoon on the south side of Aruba. Luckily,
the restaurant had incredible video footage. Wow, we never hear
about that, which is like the holy grail of true

(07:27):
crime mystery podcasts.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
Yeah, every single case, we're like, guess what.

Speaker 4 (07:32):
The cameras weren't working. The camera's ripllerry. The perpetrator walked
between fence post at the exact same time the camera
was trying to focus.

Speaker 6 (07:42):
All the things.

Speaker 4 (07:43):
But there is actual footage. Now, there isn't actual footage
of her disappearance or again this infamous snorkeling episode, but
we get all the details before and after.

Speaker 3 (07:55):
Okay, that's amazing.

Speaker 4 (07:56):
It is Robin was wearing a tightly fitted multicolor striped
full length dress with sandals, and she had any full
face of makeup. I'm talking the mescia, the eyeliner, the lipstick,
and her hair was perfectly done. She had beautiful blonde hair,
lightly curled with extensions. So to me, it doesn't exactly

(08:19):
sound like beach going gear.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
That's not what I would wear to the beach, but
it might be what I would wear, like if I
were on a date at a bar with somebody I
was potentially seeing, sure, and she looked amazing, absolutely, but
again not something that I would necessarily wear to the beach. Okay,
Gary was wearing a black shirt, shorts, socks, and tennis shoes.
Only a few minutes after Robin and Gary are seated
at the restaurant, Robin goes to the ladies room. Has

(08:43):
gone for only two minutes. At almost the exact same time,
a Facebook message from Robin appears in Richard's inbox. It
reads quote, I love you, I care about you. We'll
sort this out when.

Speaker 6 (08:58):
I get back.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
Oh, was like she might be having some second thoughts
about she is.

Speaker 6 (09:04):
I think so too.

Speaker 4 (09:04):
And the fact that she had to go to the
restroom to send this, which again I don't know for sure,
but based on the time stance, it appears that that's
where she send this message. I wonder was she trying
to hide that message from Gary for some reason?

Speaker 3 (09:18):
Okay, Okay, yeah, I mean my imagination is playing out
several different types of scenarios, but.

Speaker 6 (09:25):
They all make me sad, and none of them good.

Speaker 4 (09:27):
Yeah exactly, But whatever it is, it's clear that from
Robin Werson seeing maybe a little bit of remorse, a
little bit of guilt. Sure, and she loves Richard, sure absolutely.
At four thirteen, the couple leaves the restaurant. The two
go into a dive shop but don't make any purchases.
They then head back to their rental car and pull
it around behind the restaurant to go to the beach. Now,

(09:49):
the dive shop owner remembers them parking the car and
thinking it was strange because this part of the beach
was not typically an area where tourists would visit to
either sit on the beach or to snorkel, because the
beach was covered in rocks and reef. And this is
the last time we see the couple. Everything else is
unfortunately not on camera, but.

Speaker 3 (10:10):
The car is, so then getting out of the car
is on camera.

Speaker 6 (10:13):
Correct, Okay.

Speaker 4 (10:14):
The next thing we see on camera is Gary at
six sixteen, so full two hours after they were seen
on camera before. And he's making his way back to
the restaurant and as he's walking, he's knocking on a
few doors. Robin is not with him. Gary doesn't look
alarmed or panicked. He isn't jogging or running or pounding
on doors. He's just walking along knocking on doors, which

(10:37):
is important to note based on what we find out. Next,
let me ask you a quick question. When they got
out of the car, was she wearing a bathing suit
or was she wearing a bathing suit under her dress.
She was not wearing a bathing suit under her dress.

Speaker 3 (10:50):
So she's wearing a full length dress.

Speaker 4 (10:52):
According to Gary, she took off her dress and sandals
and left them on the beach. Now, after no one
answers the knocks on the door, Gary eventually makes it
to the back of the restaurant, where he speaks to
the kitchen staff, telling them to call for help because
Robin has been involved in a catastrophic snorkeling incident and
is now missing.

Speaker 3 (11:10):
But he's just meandering calmly, not running, not acting like
his partner just went missing.

Speaker 6 (11:16):
That's correct, okay.

Speaker 4 (11:17):
Gary tells patrons at the restaurant and eventually the police
that he asked Robin if she wanted to go for
a swim without answering him. She got into the water
with her snorkel mask and Gary followed, also wearing his
snorkel mask. According to Gary, he found the water current
too strong for him, so he tapped Robin's leg and
motioned back to the shore, he said, she acknowledged him,

(11:37):
and so he turned around and without looking back the
entire time to see if she was following him, he
swam to the shore, and according to him, at this
moment he felt like he was fighting for his life,
yet never turned around to check on his snorkel buddy. Okay,
that's suspicious, suspicious. When he reached the shore, he finally

(11:58):
thought it was a good idea to turn around and
see if Robin was with him, which she wasn't. Now,
if you got out of the water and your storically
partner was not with you, what's something that you think
you would do.

Speaker 6 (12:10):
I think I would.

Speaker 3 (12:11):
Look for my partner who's obviously in some trouble in
this rough water.

Speaker 4 (12:16):
I think that sounds so incredibly reasonable. Unfortunately, Gary did
not do that. He did not look for her at
the shore. He did not re enter the water. He
also did not go get additional gear. Because it turns
out he was a certified diver with dive equipment in
his car.

Speaker 3 (12:35):
Stephanie, he was not.

Speaker 4 (12:38):
He did not do any of those reasonable things. Okay, no,
you're a certified hold on, certified diver. You've got somebody
lost in the water. You have your equipment, and you
don't go back and looking for them. He claimed it
would have been dangerous for him to re enter the water. Well, yes,
maybe so, but it's also dangerous for her to be
lost in the water or even stand at the shore

(13:00):
and look for her. He have his own emission, says
he didn't even wait at the shore.

Speaker 3 (13:04):
He just oh, she's not there. I'm gonna go for
a nice leisurely walk and knock on doors.

Speaker 4 (13:09):
While according to him, it was a run, However, according
to the video footage, it was a stroll.

Speaker 3 (13:14):
I mean, okay, I wasn't there, but this seems not right.

Speaker 6 (13:18):
Not loving it, yeah, not loving it now.

Speaker 4 (13:21):
Later, in an interview with doctor Phil gary Is asked
why he didn't simply call for emergency services on his
cell phone. He said he didn't know the emergency service
number in Aruba. In case you're interested, it is nine
one one.

Speaker 3 (13:36):
Well, and you know, if I were in another country
in an emergency happened, I don't think I'd stop and
be like, now, what is their number? I think I
would just try nine one one.

Speaker 4 (13:44):
All of them, they're almost all subversion in nine nine
nine yeah, one one nine zero zero.

Speaker 6 (13:49):
Try some numbers.

Speaker 3 (13:50):
While screaming for help, while running to get help, like
all of the things that he's not doing, all of.

Speaker 6 (13:57):
The things that he's not doing. Let's just say that.

Speaker 4 (14:00):
And again, I want to reiterate, as he's knocking on
these doors, he's not running, he's not jogging, he is walking.

Speaker 6 (14:07):
Casually walking.

Speaker 3 (14:10):
I mean, maybe he's in shock. Maybe, I mean, I
don't know.

Speaker 4 (14:14):
Lots of questions here, and unfortunately this is also where
I have to leave you.

Speaker 3 (14:20):
Okay, So for all the details, you have to come
check out the two parter or STEVENI is amazing at
research and these details that nobody's ever heard of before.
So I know what you're going to be doing right
now is telling me all the rest that you haven't
filled me in on Listen.

Speaker 4 (14:34):
We've got a hot two parter right now at the
Dark Oak podcast. You can find us at the Darkoak
dot com, on Spotify, on Apple Music, or anywhere you
love to listen to your podcast again of one thing,
Kristin and Alison, you guys are amazing and shiver seeking listeners.

Speaker 6 (14:50):
We love you and we can't wait to see you
again soon.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
Thanks for listening, guys, have me awesome summer Bye.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
Joining us next is Key to the Case, whose passion
for justice burns brightly in every episode, covering unsolved and
lesser known disappearances and suspicious deaths.

Speaker 7 (15:20):
Hi, listeners, I'm Sam from Key to the Case, an
unsolved true crime podcast that highlights lesser known cases. Each Sunday,
I tell my co host Sean along with listeners about
either an unsolved murder or disappearance, and we discuss the case.
All right, let's dive in. Lopez Richardson was thirty two
years old at the time of his disappearance in twenty

(15:42):
twenty one. Lopez grew up in the small town of Clarksdale, Mississippi,
and Clarksdale is often referred to as a birthplace of
the Blues. It has a rich musical heritage, with several
legendary blues musicians having lived or performed there. Music was
important to Lopez from a young age, and he was

(16:04):
well versed in the history of Clarksdale. Lopez has been
described as artistically gifted. When I looked at his work
some of his art, it appeared that he could create
art in many forms using different mediums, but it seemed
that painting was really his true passion. After high school,
Lopez enrolled in Coahoma Community College, located in Clarksdale, and

(16:29):
it was here where he met his future wife. Now,
in some reports, her name has been withheld by her choice.
In some more recent coverage she has used her name,
but just to air on the side of caution, we
will call her Tea, which is the first letter of
her first name. Tea told Paramount Plus has never seen

(16:50):
again that when she met Lopez, she had a young son,
and Lopez was great with him right away. Lopez really
treated him as if it were his own child, and
they developed a special bond. T and Lopez eventually married
and they had a daughter together in twenty eleven, whom
Lopez adored and overall, I got the impression that Lopez

(17:13):
put being a father first in life, and he really
doated on his daughter and his step son, and they
adored him as well. In July twenty fourteen, Lopez and
Tea decided to make a move to Houston, Texas. Although
they loved Mississippi, they were ready for a change and
were possibly looking for different opportunities beyond what Clarksdale could provide.

(17:38):
Once they arrived in Houston, Lopez got a job working
as a mechanic, and a friend of his was in
a motorcycle club, so Lopez became very interested in motorcycles.
He joined this motorcycle club and he began working on
motorcycles in addition to cars. I think just kind of
in a spare time.

Speaker 8 (17:59):
Did they have any family in Houston.

Speaker 7 (18:01):
My understanding is that their family was rooted in Mississippi,
both of their families, so I don't believe they had
any family in Houston, but they definitely had a couple
of friends there, it sounded like when they moved there,
and then they both made more friends while they were there.
In July twenty twenty, Lopez got into a motorcycle accident

(18:22):
and sustained pretty severe injuries to his leg and foot,
and during surgery, metal pins were inserted into some of
the bones in his foot, and they were still present
at the time of his disappearance. This injury made it
more difficult for Lopez to get around or to walk
great distances. After moving to Houston, the relationship between Lopez

(18:47):
and Tea began to fall apart, so they made the
difficult decision to separate, although they did not get divorced
at that point, Lopez decided to move to Rosenberg, Texas,
because that would bring him closer to where his work was.
And rosenberg sits about fifty eight miles or ninety three

(19:07):
kilometers away from Spring, Texas in the Greater Houston area,
and that is where Tea lived, So they're about almost
sixty miles apart from each other. Even though Lopez and
Tea were separated, they still maintained a friendship. There didn't
appear to be hostility between them at all, and I

(19:28):
can imagine this benefited their daughter and Te's son for
them to see that despite their separation, they could still
have a positive relationship. Fast forward a bit to twenty
twenty one, and Lopez began to merge his artistic talent
with his love for tattoos. We already talked about how

(19:48):
he was an artist, but he also loved tattoos. He
had quite a few on his body, and he decided
to become a tattoo artist with the aspiration of opening
his own shop. She ultimately did very shortly before his disappearance.
His business was called Deer Life Tattoos and Rosenberg, and
by all accounts, the shop was doing well. Lopez and

(20:12):
Tea had an arrangement where their daughter would split time
between them. So on July fifth, twenty twenty one, their
daughter was with Lopez until he called Tea and asked
if he could drop their daughter off with her. Lopez
did not state why, but he also didn't give off
any red flags at that time or act strangely, so

(20:35):
to date, we don't really know exactly why he cut
his time short with her, but we have an idea.
We will have an idea. After Lopez dropped their daughter
off around eleven pm, Tea talked with him a few
times on the phone until July seventh, so a few
days after their exchange. During some of these phone calls,

(20:56):
Lopez made alarming statements. He told that he got involved
with some of the wrong people and that he disrespected
the wrong person.

Speaker 8 (21:06):
So did he upset someone within the motorcycle gang.

Speaker 7 (21:10):
Yes. My understanding is that this was at least one
person within the motorcycle club. They're referred to as a club,
not a gang, so it was someone within there. I
think t has a good idea of who this person
was or who the people were. She has not ever
named them publicly. I don't blame her for not naming

(21:31):
them publicly. But yeah, you can imagine in a conversation
where your ex tells you this the father of your child,
You're going to be asking those questions, well, who are
you talking about? What do they say? So I think
more details were relaid than we know.

Speaker 8 (21:49):
So she didn't release the information of this person who
she thinks it was after he disappeared.

Speaker 7 (21:55):
No, because she said she thinks she knows who it was,
but she isn't certain. So she's not going to put
someone's name out there and say that when she's not
one hundred percent certain, or even if she was. That's
something that she has relayed to the police, but she
doesn't necessarily need to put their name out there.

Speaker 8 (22:13):
I mean, she's probably probably a little bit concerned about
her safety and her daughter.

Speaker 7 (22:19):
Safety to Yeah, I definitely think she's concerned. Yeah, And
I think that's why she wasn't using her name in
the beginning. She's using it a little bit more now
when she speaks, But I think she was concerned during
those phone calls. Lopez also indicated that he wouldn't get
a chance to apologize, although he spoke with his daughter

(22:41):
during his last phone call, and he told her that
he was very sorry. Then he said goodbye, I love you.
When I heard this, I was wondering what he was
apologizing for. What happened that was so concerning that he
seemed to be scared. T remarked that saying goodbye was
unusual for Lopez. He typically just said see you later

(23:05):
at the end of a conversation, so this felt like
it had some finality to it. It felt a little
more permanent to her. About twenty minutes after that final
phone call, one of Lopez's fellow motorcycle members called Tea
and asked if she'd heard from Lopez because they were
a little worried about him. They were trying to get

(23:26):
in touch with him. She found this timing to be odd,
but could it be that he was in communication with
some of the members he was making statements similar to
those he made to Tea that could draw concern. So
on July seventh, that was the last known time that
Lopez was heard from, and the last time he was
known to be seen was actually July fifth, when he

(23:49):
dropped his daughter off around eleven PM in Spring, Texas
with Tea. After that, Tea's calls and texts began to
go unanswered. Which raised concerns for Tea. We have to
keep in mind the alarming statements Lopez made, but also
that they frequently communicated. They have a child together, but

(24:10):
they were still friends too, so it was very much
normal for them to talk either on the phone or
through text on a regular basis. Tea's concern continued to grow,
so she began searching around Rosenberg with a few others
in an attempt to locate him, but when she was unsuccessful,

(24:31):
she decided to report him as a missing person to
the Rosenberg police on July eighth, before an investigation could
even really begin. Lopez's truck, a Dodge Ram, was discovered
abandoned in the woods around twelve forty five pm on
July ninth, so that was the day after Tea reported

(24:52):
him missing. Strangely, his truck was in the town of
how Texas, which is located north of Dallas near the
Texas Oklahoma border, almost three hundred and thirty miles away
from Rosenberg, or about a five hour drive away. How
is a small town with a population of approximately thirty

(25:13):
seven hundred, and according to Tea, she didn't know anyone there,
and as far as she knew, neither did lo Pez,
there was no reasonable explanation for why this vehicle would
have been and how. If you'd like to hear the
rest of this case, along with other lesser known cases,
search for Cue the Case wherever you listen to podcasts.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
Here's Kristin and mogab from True Crime Creepers, a true
crime enthusiast and her true crime newbie friend whose investigations
are always thorough, entertaining, and most of all compelling.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
Welcome to a little mini episode of True Crime Creepers
where we talk about all the real life creeps, from
serial killers to con artists. I'm Kristen, the true crime
fanatic who loves to tell these stories.

Speaker 9 (26:03):
And I'm Mogap, the true crime newby who hasn't heard
any of them.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
So we're doing something a little different today. Usually we
go pretty in depth with these cases. Most of our
episodes run anywhere from like one to two hours, but
today we're doing quite a shortened version of a normal episode.

Speaker 6 (26:20):
Oh that's fun, where I will.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
Be telling you about the disappearance of Brian Schaeffer, where
a man walks into a bar in Columbus, Ohio.

Speaker 6 (26:31):
I know I'm gonna be there literally tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
And then literally vanishes.

Speaker 9 (26:38):
He is what bar ever seen again?

Speaker 2 (26:40):
The ugly tuna Saluna?

Speaker 9 (26:43):
Oh say it isn't.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
So this is going to be more of an overview
than what we usually do. But this is such a
bizarre story. I can't wait to get into it with you.

Speaker 7 (26:58):
So.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
Brian schaefe For was a twenty seven year old medical
student at Ohio State University in Columbus the Ohio statever sorry,
the Ohio.

Speaker 9 (27:08):
Paddy corner from the Big tunasal.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yes, yes, So, he and his girlfriend Alexis Wagner they
had plans to spend spring break in Miami, but they
were and they were really looking forward to that trip.
Alexis was also a medical student and they just deserve
some time to let loose and relax. And some people
said that Brian was even planning on maybe proposing to
Alexis on this trip. So this trip was a big

(27:33):
deal for both of them. Now, a few days before
the trip, Brian and his roommate William Clint Florence decided
to go out. This was March thirty first, two thousand
and six. Alexis was in Toledo for the weekend visiting
her parents before their Miami trip, Like this is like
I think Friday, they're leaving Monday to go on their trip.

(27:54):
But Brian did call her around ten pm that night.
He sounded normal. He told her if he loved her,
told or he'd see her Monday morning when they left
for their trip. So Brian and Clint hit up Columbus's
University District and go to the Ugly Tuna Saluna bar.
They took a few shots, they had a few beers.

(28:14):
Then they left the Ugly Tuna to go to the
Arena District and then the Short North District, which.

Speaker 9 (28:21):
Yes, you are speaking all of my favorite.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
Okay, so correct me if I'm wrong. It seemed to
me like all of that was within like about a
ten minute drive of each.

Speaker 9 (28:29):
Other, Like the University district right there, Okay, it's all
downtown little hops.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
Okay, perfect. So they ran into Clint's friend, Meredith Reid,
and they decided to all go back to the Ugly Tuna.
So she drove them back there. And now the entrance,
have you been there, Like the original one that's like
two stories, not the Tuna Saluna two that apparently because
this one apparently all closed down.

Speaker 9 (28:54):
Didn't know there was Tuna Saluna two. Okay, I've been
to the Ugly Tune.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
So the entrance to the is on the second floor
of this like large building in the Gateway complex. So
the three of them, so it's Meredith, Clint, and Brian.
The three of them are seen on security footage riding
the escalator up to the second floor at one point
fifteen am. Forty minutes later, so just a few minutes

(29:18):
before closing time, like one fifty five. Brian is seen
like in the corner of the security tape, like near
the front door, chatting with a few women. This is
like right at the top of the escalators. But then
he walks off camera. He doesn't go down the escalators,
he just walks off camera, presumably back inside, and he's

(29:40):
never seen again.

Speaker 9 (29:41):
Really.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
Meredith and Clint said that after they got separated from Brian,
they figured he'd just left the bar without telling them.
He did live within walking distance, so it wouldn't be
that weird. They'd tried calling him a few times over
the weekend but never got a hold of him. Brian's
parents were also calling him all weekend, and as was Alexis,
and everyone was starting to get really worried. They had

(30:03):
already kind of started a search for him. By Sunday,
they were going to the Gateway complex. They were checking
dumpsters and everything. But it wasn't until Monday morning when
Alexis showed up at the airport for their trip to Miami,
just hoping that Brian would still show up, like maybe
he had freaked out about something and needed some space
or some time alone or whatever, but he's not going

(30:25):
to miss this trip. But he didn't show up, and
so that was when the alarm was finally sounded. Alexis
knew for sure something was very wrong, and she called
to report him missing. A large search of the area
was ordered as soon as he was reported missing. There
was up to like fifty police officers searching for him.

(30:46):
They scoured the CCTV footage from Ugly Tuna and the
surrounding businesses looking for him. They were able to account
for every single person that walked into the Ugly Tuna.
They were able to find them on security footage, leaving
every single person except for Brian.

Speaker 6 (31:04):
Where did he go?

Speaker 2 (31:06):
That is really the question, because the escalator was really
the only way out of the bar and he wasn't
on it. Now there was a back door. This was
not like a public exit, but they did have another
like way out of the bar fire. Yeah, it was
this freight elevator, but that elevator led to this construction site.

(31:27):
And we'll kind of get into the construction site a
little bit.

Speaker 9 (31:31):
But the literally that everything there is under construction all
the time, well, and like a constant.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
My understanding is they're not like digging a hole and
pouring concrete at this construct They're like renovating a building,
and like most of the renovations were kind of already done.
Because some people are like, oh, maybe he they poured
concrete over him, but I it's my understanding that there
was no concrete poured like after this, so that didn't

(32:02):
really make sense, but I'm not one hundred percent. They
questioned Brian's friends and relatives. They gave everyone polygraph tests. Well,
everyone accept His roommate Clint, the one that had been
out with him that weekend, Well, that seems weird. He's
the only person who refused to take the test, which
did feel weird to people, And I'm like, I don't
want to hold that against him too bad, because we

(32:25):
all know that polygraph tests are unreliable and that can
kind of blow back on you in not a good way.
And maybe he knew that in two thousand and six,
but it feels.

Speaker 9 (32:35):
Odd forget this was two thousand and six. That feels
so long ago, I know.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
And also those two women that Brian was seen chatting
with on the surveillance tape, they were never questioned either.

Speaker 5 (32:47):
Dan.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
Everyone remained hopeful that Brian would turn up, but when
his credit cards and cell phone weren't used one time
in more than a year, that hope started to dwindle.
And it's now been almost twenty years and no sign
of Brian Shafer.

Speaker 9 (33:03):
Oh twenty years.

Speaker 2 (33:05):
Well, I know, there was one sighting in twenty twenty
of this homeless man that looked to be like an
American man in Tijuana, Mexico, and he looked a lot
like Brian. Uh So people were like, oh my god,
is that Brian Shaffer? Is that Brian Shafer? But the
FBI ran facial recognition and determined that it wasn't him.
And other than that, there's been like no signs, no sighting.

(33:27):
Nobody can even figure out how he left the bar.
So I wanted to go through like a few of
the theories of what maybe happened to him?

Speaker 9 (33:40):
Wait, what happened to Alexis Like, she goes to the airport,
she called, she called the police and a report. But
I'm like, she's not going to Miami and she's like.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
No, right, no, No, she didn't go to Miami. She did.
She has now gotten remarried and she has kids, kids
and everything. But yeah, no she did not. She didn't
on the plane. She called the police. Yeah, I think
she just showed up at the airport like hoping, maybe hoping. Yeah.

Speaker 9 (34:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
So one theory is the accidental death and concealment theory,
which I just don't see how there's any way this
was accidental. And then his body has been concealed for
all of this time.

Speaker 9 (34:21):
Yeah, especially with literally, no joke, all of the construction
on a high street all of the time.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
Yeah, so that's one reason why people were thinking like concealment,
because they're like, okay, there's this active construction site and
so maybe he like stumbled back there taking the freight
elevator down through the back and stumbled out and tripped
and then they poured and fell and knocked his head

(34:49):
and fell in a hole, and then they poured concrete
over him unknowingly and now he's like buried in the
foundation of this building. But that just seems like so
not plausible and also seems like you can check for
that kind of stuff. And also I did read that
the construction was basically over by that time, and so

(35:11):
it would be very like it just doesn't seem very
likely that that's what happened. But none of these options
seem likely, Like none of them do.

Speaker 9 (35:22):
Yeah, he's okay. Option one, he's disappeared out of thin air.

Speaker 2 (35:26):
Two he's buried in concrete in the foundation of this
building resort.

Speaker 8 (35:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
Yeah, So option two is voluntary disappearance that Brian just
chose to disappear. He was having a lot going on
in his life. He had recently lost his mother to
cancer and they were like really really close, so that
could have kind of triggered this flight instinct, I suppose.
But everybody close to Brian, including Alexis, his dad, his brother,

(35:55):
like everybody said, there's no way that he's leaving, not
to mention.

Speaker 6 (36:00):
And you keep it up this long, and and also.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
Disappearing and being completely off the grid, that is so
hard and it takes so much planning and he'd been
drinking all night, he'd been taking shots, he'd been drinking beers.
If you are planning to enact this like foolproof plant,
full proof plan, that's so good that you've been able
to completely disappear. No credit cards were used, no cell

(36:24):
phone was used, like and never found either, they didn't
find your cell phone and stuff.

Speaker 9 (36:29):
Well, and if that's my plan, I'm not going out
the night before where they're security cameras.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
Right, or I am for like an alibi or whatever,
but like I'm not getting drunk, yeah, and then disappearing
and then actually making that work and then even so
and it's like a trip to Florida, even if that's true, Okay,
for that to be true, he would have had to
get out of the ugly tuna buy and avoid all

(36:55):
the security cameras getting out of there. So like how
would he have done that?

Speaker 7 (37:01):
You know?

Speaker 2 (37:01):
Like, yeah, okay, so obviously the last couple theories are
like foul play theories. So was he abducted by somebody?
But even then, how.

Speaker 6 (37:13):
Did he get out of the bar?

Speaker 5 (37:16):
Well?

Speaker 9 (37:16):
I mean we've done cases where like someone's body's in
a suitcase or a trash can or.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah, and so there was a lot of like, was
anybody carrying anything that could have concealed him? Was he
in like trash can? Yeah, so maybe somebody like hurt
him and then somehow, but it's like everybody that went
into the bar was accounted for leaving, So it's not
like anybody hurt him and then is hiding in there,
you know, waiting to take him out with How sure

(37:45):
can you be?

Speaker 9 (37:46):
It's security cameras in two thousand and six, Yeah, that's
really able to one identify, they said this, especially when
everyone's dressed like bros.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
And the security cameras they are pretty grainy, like you
got I know exactly what you're looking for?

Speaker 6 (38:01):
Yeah right, Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
So I guess that's possible. If like somebody hurt him,
it would have had to have been upstairs around the bar,
or they lured him down that freight elevator and for
some reason like lured him over to maybe that construction
site area just because it's like isolated.

Speaker 9 (38:19):
Well, if they lured him out the freight elevator, they
could have taken him anywhere and killed him, right, Like,
it doesn't necessarily have to be the construction site because
that's the back.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 9 (38:30):
But like a why you know, but if you don't
know who, it's hard to know why. That's crazy. The
biggest mystery to me is this Ugly Tuna SALOONA number two.
I'd like more information on that.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
Well, so I tried to look up like I was
trying to like Google maps, like the Ugly Tuna Saluna
I because I wanted to see, like, okay, what's this
escalator situation, Like what does this building look like? And
I actually had to look up the address because the
Ugly Tuna Saluna is closed and now there's the Ugly
Tuna Salona two, and uh, it's open, and it's it's

(39:01):
all downstairs. It's like it's not in the same place.

Speaker 9 (39:04):
That's the most fun.

Speaker 6 (39:07):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
So the last and most like sensational theory that gets
people all excited is the smiley Face killer theory. So
there is this like supposed serial killer or group of
serial killers that people call the Smiley Face Killers. And

(39:31):
this actually got pretty recently, like it's gotten put in
the news again. There was like this big thing about
the Smiley Face Killers being in all these different cities
like last year. But anyways, It's like all of these men,
like Brian's age men were being found killed or dead

(39:54):
and by their body there would be some sort of
graffiti with like a smiley face on there. And so
these two I think they were like FBI agents. They
were like retired though I mean I'm like retired like
police officers or FBI agents or something. They came up
with this theory that all of these murders were being
done by this like group of Cereal, this like team

(40:15):
of serial killers that they call the Smiley Face killers,
and most people, I think just kind of figure that
like a smiley face is a because the smiley faces
also didn't always look the same. They weren't always drawn
the same. Sometimes they had a circle around them like
the head. Sometimes it was just like the two eyes
and the smile. It was different colors, like there was nothing,

(40:36):
no pattern to it. So people are, like most of
law enforcement I think, is like, well, a smiley face
is like the most common graffiti symbol, Like yeah, exactly,
like you're gonna see that everywhere, and like there was
no connection between these bodies. And so there's a lot
of debate on whether or not the Cereal the smiley
face killers are even real, but they they were supposed

(40:59):
to be or supposedly active in this area, and there
was I think a smiley face found near the area
or like near the Ugly Tuna. Maybe there's never been
any like definitive connection to Brian's case, but he does
fit like the demographics of what people think the Smiley

(41:21):
Face killers are after, which is like young college age men,
you know, and especially after they've been drinking at bars.
Like that was a big thing. So a lot of
people like most of these deaths are always chalked up
to being like accidents, but people are like, what if
these aren't because they're like drunk men, you know, leaving
bars and yeah, because.

Speaker 9 (41:39):
The Ugly Tuna is known for a fish bowl the
size of my entire head, well, they're.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
Also known for having a happy hour from eight to
ten where they sell ridiculously strong drinks for a dollar.
So they have a ten dollars minimum for credit card,
so you have to buy ten of those to pay
the credit card. So there's a lot like, there was
a lot of really like interesting because the they were

(42:07):
there was a big thing in Austin last year where
they were really trying to say that it possibly the
Smiley Face Killers, or if not them, then a serial
killer was active in Austin because all of these college
age men from Rainy. Yeah, it was like when we
went to Rainy Bachelor were like, are we still going
to rain I was like, I think there's a serial

(42:28):
killer active around here. I don't really think that anymore.
I am more kind of inclined to believe that these
are accidental drownings because they're like in Ladybird Lake, which
is like right down from Rainy Street, but same thing
in Columbus. These Smiley Face Killers were like supposedly active there,
and so maybe Brian, like Brian was killed and then

(42:53):
dumped like in the water, you know nearby. Is there
water nearby? Yeah, well maybe that's where he is. So
those are kind of the theories, but just none of
them are like super compelling. None of them are like, oh, yeah,
that's probably what happened. Like It's so just kind of
frustrating and confusing. And there's a lot more to this case, obviously,

(43:14):
but we are already going over our time, so I
couldn't get, you know, as deep into it as I
usually liked to. But that is the disappearance of.

Speaker 9 (43:24):
Brian Schaeffer Man, I did not know about that.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
Yeah, all right, well check out True Crime Creepers. We
hope you'll check us out.

Speaker 9 (43:31):
Buy Peeps and Creeps.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
Feel the heat rise with the hosts from Vintage Homicide
as we join them in the exploration of various perspectives
of crimes of the past.

Speaker 10 (43:43):
Welcome to Vintage Homicide with your host me, Ruby Wilde
and Miss may Day, and we bring you historic homicide
cases with deep dives into everything from the forensics used
to solve the crimes, as well as pivotal events that
were occurring at the time, and so much more. Let's
dive into today's case. We're starting this out in New
York in March of nineteen sixty seven with June Fisk Maloney.

(44:05):
She was a practicing nurse and she was on her
way to living her best life. At the age of
twenty six, she had left her allegedly abusive husband, Joseph Maloney,
of five years, with a report even at one point
he had attempted to stab her through the roof of
her convertible car. That charge was never brought forth because
she withdrew her complaint. She and her two children with Joseph,

(44:27):
Joseph Junior and Patricia, who went by Patty, moved into
a two bedroom apartment and she was moving on with
her life, even seeing a new man. Joseph had previously
been married to a woman named Joan Howland, and that
couple also had two children. From the lack of information
I could find about him with that family, I'm guessing
they never had any contact after their divorce. So we're

(44:48):
just going to, unfortunately, have to leave Joan in the
past and we're going to focus on June in their family.
So it was their son's fifth birthday. Again, this is
Joseph Junior and we're in May of nineteen sixty seven.
That was a reason for them to get together and
just to get along have a good day for this celebration. Unfortunately,
she started to feel ill after the party, and so

(45:08):
the next day, her friend Wanda Mordenga, she went to
her house to check on her, and she saw that
Joe was already there checking on her and he had
brought a doctor with him. Now, Joe was convinced that
she was just suffering from food poisoning from the party
or anything that she ate before or after, but the
doctor was not so sure that it was food poisoning.

(45:28):
This was even more so evident when she fell into
a coma the following day. She was brought to the hospital,
and while at the hospital, the doctors were banging their
heads against a wall trying to figure out what was
making June sick. Joe thought he had the answer. He
said that because of lair, impending divorce, and her living
alone with the two kids, she was depressed and suicidal,
and he believed that she was ill and fell into

(45:50):
a coma because she tried to take her own life.
Insert the red flax shining even brighter when June finally
succumbed to her illness on June fitth, So this was,
you know, two weeks of her.

Speaker 6 (46:01):
From May to June.

Speaker 10 (46:02):
She was in a coma, ill and died, and so
they performed an autopsy on her and discovered that she
had actually been poisoned with methanol. Methanol is not the
ethanol that we drink. It's still an alcohol, but.

Speaker 11 (46:15):
Not Yeah, so, like you said, the alcohol that we
drink is actually ethanol, which is made by fermenting simple
sugars and then it's distilled. The distillation process is how
we get the strength of alcohol and it's purity. Methanol
is a more simple form of alcohol, but it's really

(46:36):
toxic to humans even in really small doses. The good
thing is that normal distillation and fermentation to create alcohol
that we drink, methanol doesn't really occur during that process.
It can maybe in small trace amounts, but it's still
safe to consume. Originally, how methanol was created was produced

(46:57):
through the destructive distillation of wood. That's why it was
originally termed wood alcohol. As far as methanol and its
effects on the body, it is actually not necessarily the
methanol that is the thing that's harmful. It's really what
it converts into when the body breaks it down, so
it reduces into formeldehyde and formic acid. Both of those

(47:20):
things are the things that cause the cellular hypoxia, which
is cell death. It's really famous for making people blind,
and we say being blind drunk, right, This is a
function of it attacking the optic nerve. Even as little
as ten milliliters of pure methanol can potentially cause blindness,

(47:42):
and a lethal dose is only about thirty miliiters of methanol.
The scary thing about methanol. Its taste and smell is
almost indistinguishable from ethanol. It's not really easy to detect
the difference. In industry, methanols widely use as like a
denaturant additive to ethinyl.

Speaker 10 (48:04):
Yeah, said in the lab a lot.

Speaker 11 (48:06):
It's because it's very similar and chemical properties. It's a denaturant,
so we would use it for a disinfectant. It's in
things like ana freeze, paint removers, windshield wipe, or fluid.
It's a very common solvent. It's a good solvent, and
poisonings can happen as an accident, but generally there's labeling

(48:27):
that would indicate that this poison is present. So poison
themselves and it's even rarer as a suicide attempt. However,
some alcoholics will intentionally consume methanol as an alternative to ethanol.
That's just out of desperation. In the US, during Prohibition,
when alcohol was not available, methanol poisoning became very common

(48:50):
with the consumption of bootlegged alcohol because they were cutting
ethanol with methanol, so if they didn't get the ratio correct,
they were using too much methanol and it was poisonous.
In June's case classic case of methanol poisoning. Usually you
don't notice for like twelve to twenty four hours, just
because it feels like an extreme buzz similar to ethanol.

(49:12):
But then after that you'll experience an extreme headache, dizziness, weakness,
and it's like a really bad hangover essentially. But then
that's followed by nausea, vomiting, and then eventually blurring of
your vision and blindness. And then with severe poisonings you
can have some seizures or fall into a coma, and

(49:33):
June's case also deaf right.

Speaker 10 (49:35):
And because of this, Joe being the prime suspect, he
was promptly arrested and charged with her murder. Now, during
the course of the investigation, to determine how he was
able to accomplish such a poisoning, they started talking to
the family and the friends of the family, and they
found Neil Dunkelberg, and he was a basement chemist with
a story to tell. Joseph had asked Neil if he

(49:57):
knew of a poison that was odorless, tasteless, and entrad,
telling his friend that he wanted to get rid of
a stray dog. Neil was weirded out by this and
basically told Joseph no, and then further told his family
never allowed Joseph into our basement. That's where my chemistry
lab is, and he's weirding me out. Unfortunately, the Dunkelberg
family went on vacation and he left his sister to

(50:18):
house sit but he didn't tell her about the warning
of Joseph, and so she didn't know about the ban
and she allowed Joseph to go into the basement to
collect whatever he wanted. This is apparently where he got
the methanol. Now, all of this together, the circumstantial evidence
and her poisoning in Neil's account, was enough for the
jury to believe that he was guilty and he was
sentenced to life in prison starting September nineteen sixty seven. Now,

(50:41):
Joseph pled insanity and this allowed him to be sent
to Rochester State Mental Hospital in New York, and that
was for an evaluation. So anytime somebody pleads insanity, as
we know, they have to get evaluated by multiple psychiatrists
to determine whether or not they served their time in
a mental institution or in the prison system. Unfortunately, it
only took two weeks for Joseph to escape this mental hospital,

(51:02):
and that's because in the past he had been a
janitor at that hospital, so he knew all of the
ins and outs, and he figured out how he could
leave completely undetected. And there was no side of the
man until nineteen seventy three when bartender Michael O'Shea had
to call the Guardi to his house in Dublin because
he had been burgled. Guardy is like, it's the same

(51:23):
as our police. They're their own kind of yes, that's
correct history.

Speaker 11 (51:28):
So the Guardy that's an informal name. It means the
guard Originally the formal title is the guarda Shiahanna, which
means like the Guardians of peace, so it's really pretty.
It takes its name after its French counterpart, which is
also the Guardians of Peace, but in French it changed
from Originally it was called the Civic Guard under the

(51:50):
English and then Ireland adapted its own police force in
its own Irish titling, so they're security.

Speaker 10 (52:00):
What happened is when he called them for his house,
they took his fingerprints for elimination purposes, and that's where
they had a surprise. This man, Michael o'che was really
Joseph Maloney, and that's because they matched his prints to
those that they had on an FBI wanted poster. Unfortunately,
this didn't mean that he immediately was arrested for any means,

(52:22):
and that's because Ireland didn't have an extradition treating to
the United States, so Ireland couldn't hold him and they
had to let him go. So you can't be arrested
in Ireland for something that you did in the United States.
This is the way that Michael was living his life
in Ireland. You would have no idea that he was
a fugitive from the United States because from the mid
nineteen seventies through the nineteen eighties he ran a place

(52:44):
called the Capard House. It was a mansion in the
Sleeve Bloom Mountains. He had renovated the home to make
it a resort and he cleaned out the lake and
that's because he wanted it to be a sanctuary for
outdoor enthusiasts to come and they can shoot and fish
on the property. He was throwing left parties. He was
living the high life and he didn't live on that property.

(53:04):
He had two homes in Dublin with his third wife,
Sheila there, of course, were tales going around. I mean,
it's really hard to keep the rumor mill down, especially
after his fingerprints were taken and they figured out that
he was Joseph Maloney. Michael told tales all the time.
He was saying, oh, I'm ex military, and I'm this,
and I'm that. And he even lied about his age.

(53:25):
According to his marriage license to Sheila, he said that
he was seven years younger than what he was and
so anybody that knew him knew that he had, according
to him, lived way too many lives for somebody who
looked like he was in his mid forties. There was
even rumors about the fact that he was wanted in
America for killing his wife, but everybody just thought that
they were rumors, and Michael never told Sheila who he was.

(53:49):
Just kind of shined on what was happening in America,
and that would explain her shock when Michael was finally
arrested in nineteen eighty five for the murder of June.
And that's because there was finally a treaty of extradition
in effect from Ireland to America.

Speaker 11 (54:04):
This was finally in nineteen eighty five, right, but negotiations
of an extradition treaty between Ireland and the United States.
They began as early as like the mid seventies. The
whole purpose of it was to widen the extent of
Ireland's extradition arrangements, which up until then had only been
confined to Europe. This was its first bilateral extradition treaty

(54:26):
with the United States. The whole purpose of it was
because one we didn't have one, there was an obvious
gap in relations between Ireland and the United States. Ireland's
extradition commitments only included other European countries, and that was
based on the European Convention on Extradition, and so there
were several European countries like the UK, Austria, Germany, Hungary.

(54:47):
The object of this treaty was to basically increase that
cooperation between the US and Ireland in combating crime and
bringing justice to suspected criminals who sought to avoid prosecution
by leaving usters diiction and going to Ireland, because Ireland
was basically seen as a safe haven for American criminals.
In negotiating the terms of the treaty, there was a

(55:09):
lot of care taken to ensure that the terms complied
with their original extradition f that Ireland had in nineteen
sixty five, which basically limited offenses or extradition to those
which are punishable by both countries for a period of
more than one year, So the crime has to be
a sentence of more than one year in both countries,

(55:31):
so that's like the minimum requirement. Following this treaty, basically
five people were wanted for prosecution in the United States.
They submitted requests to Ireland to get them extradited in
accordance with the treaty. Two people basically were subsequently extradited,
and that was because of all of the challenges in

(55:51):
the courts of these five people requested for extradition, one
of which was Joe Maloney because he had been living
in Ireland under the alias of Michael O'sche was finally
apprehended at that time by Irish authorities under the extradition treaty,
but unfortunately he was released from custody because the treaty

(56:12):
started to completely collapse, and this was mostly because of
a lot of the appeals and there was a lot
of Irish Supreme Court cases that were basically fighting the
extradition to the United States and other countries and so
basically the Supreme Court released Maloney and they got it
wrong once again in a series of several extradition cases

(56:35):
where there were appeals that went to the Irish Supreme Court.
So with that precedent being sent that regardless of this treaty,
the Irish government would set them free. Basically, Ireland continued
to be seen as a haven for fugitives from justice.
So in nineteen eighty six, Maloney walked out of an

(56:56):
Irish prison.

Speaker 6 (56:57):
So I went on the land.

Speaker 10 (56:59):
Now we have and that's where he faded into the
ether until a new investigative podcast recently released called Runaway Joe.
It's brought to you by Tim Desmond and papavel Barter,
and they were able to discover that Joseph actually died
in two thousand and five at the age of seventy.
Sheila Chandler, his third wife, confirmed the account before she
too died in twenty ten, and she never told anywhere

(57:21):
where he had been buried. So if you're looking for
a good, multi part in depth coverage of this case,
go ahead and check it out. There was like a
whole thing. They had moved to Berlin, and I want
to say Turkey and it was all about them jumping
all around and it was a huge.

Speaker 11 (57:37):
Yeah, he moved to other countries that didn't have extra.

Speaker 10 (57:40):
Just an in case Ireland and the United States picked
it back up again. They were also able to determine
that Joseph had four so the two previous to Joan
and the two to June, but he had six children,
two from Joan, two from June, and two from affairs
that he had while he was married to June. And
this was all developed by the help of DNA, and

(58:01):
the children were only now recently all aware of each
other and they all started to get into contact. So
we know that this is short and sweet. It's just
a tease of what we offer over at Vintage Homicide.
So while you're adding new podcasts to your summertime listen library,
go ahead and give us a follow, and we're not
going to cut you completely off from our little dad jokes. So, Missmayde,

(58:24):
what is the best asset for a fugitive? Yes, his lie, I.

Speaker 11 (58:29):
Don't know, I liked get it.

Speaker 6 (58:33):
Oh okay, bad dad joke.

Speaker 2 (58:35):
Get those two liability.

Speaker 10 (58:39):
Thank you guys so much for tuning in.

Speaker 8 (58:41):
Well, thank you.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
When the chase gets hot, the stories get hotter and funnier.
Take a hardcore look at soft core crimes with Lee
roy from Excuse Me That's Illegal?

Speaker 12 (58:56):
What's up Everybody? Lee Roy here, host of the petty
crime pop podcast Excuse Me That's Illegal? And Have I
got a hot story for you that just screams summer.
This tale takes us to New York. Gotta love New Yorkers. Hey,
watch it ball. I'm walking over here, car horns blaring everywhere,

(59:16):
lots of traffic I've never been. That's just what I
picture when I hear of New York. To narrow it down,
this crime happens in Chelsea, which is our neighborhood on
the West side of Manhattan. And of course it goes
down at everyone's favorite summer spot, at least mine, and
that's seven eleven, because that's where the slurpees are at
Baby Ah. Slurpies often imitated, never duplicated. There are so

(59:40):
many impostors out there, and none of them taste quite
as sweet. Just kidding, They're all basically the same. It's
not a complicated recipe slush with some artificial syrup flavoring
in there. They got hundreds of flavors every convenience store
seems to sell them these days. Seven to eleven is
the only place that can officially call them a slurpee.

(01:00:00):
Circle K is the big convenience store in my area.
There slushies aren't bad, and they called them frosters AnyWho.
This fine seven to eleven establishment is located at one
ninety four Seventh Avenue, that's between West twenty first and
twenty second streets. Imagine being a cabby in New York City.
I'd be a nightmare. All those numbers and confusing as heck.

(01:00:22):
I checked out images of this place. It's your typical
seven eleven fluorescent lighting, sweaty hot dogs and tiketos spinning
around collecting dust and disease on those rollers, big gulps,
pizza slices, cigarettes, potato chips, energy drinks, and a big
old's slurpy machine. Of course, it's beside a place called

(01:00:42):
Fancy Nail and Spa fancy spelt fa n cie. The
sign out front says they also give foot and back rubs. Nice.
We have a couple of reviews to read for the
seven eleven, not the nail Spa. This place gets two
point eight out of five star ours our lowest rating
yet and that is out of only twenty three reviews.

(01:01:05):
Let's see what this is all about. Joel B. Gave
this one star a few years ago and said, quote,
their team is not friendly. They're very confrontational. The store
owner said she is the owner and can talk to
anyone however she wants. She don't have no respect and
I wouldn't recommend no one to support their madness. They

(01:01:25):
are disrespectful all over, wanting to charge me for a
hot dog before I received it, then tell me to
stand in line to pay for my drink after shaking
my head. Good luck. End quote. Let's get another one
from Steve s. He says poor management, employees are always
late to their shift, roaches and rats running around the

(01:01:47):
store floor. Quit my job on December twenty six, of
twenty eighteen. There are no benefits for employees either. Okay,
I guess we have to take that with a grain
of salt, as he sounds like a former disgruntled e ployer.
So that's the store we're dealing with, busy seven to
eleven in New York City with rude employees and an
alleged roach and rat infestation. With all that taking into account.

(01:02:11):
Let's be flies on the wall of this store back
in the hot and humid summer of twenty sixteen. It's Sunday,
August twenty eighth. It's three forty five pm and one
of the employees is on the phone with the cops.
Enough is enough. He's calling the NYPD to report a theft.
The police show up and manager Javem Mahisi explains to

(01:02:31):
them what's been going down. You see, for over three
weeks now, some guy has been walking into the store,
filling up a small cup at the self served slurpey stand,
then strutting out without paying for it. This isn't a
teenager either. They described him as being in his thirties
or forties. And I love the balls on this guy.
A little more info, but the layout of the store.

(01:02:53):
The slurpy stand is located at the very back, so
he grabs the drink, then he has to walk the
length of this place with the icy treat to get
out of there. There's a photograph at the slurpy station.
It's stocked with all the different sized cups with lids,
and those thick jumbo straws and the flavors. Oh man,
the flavors Wild Cherry, Hawaiian Punch, blue Raspberry, Sour Patch, Kids,

(01:03:15):
Coca Cola, and Skittles. Way better selection than I'm used to.
I never knew they had the Skittles flavor. It's featured
on a sign that has the catchy slogan slurp the
rainbow taste, the Rainbow clever. So this is a selfish act, indeed,
But hey, at least he grabs a small cup each
time they sell a small for a dollar seventy nine?

(01:03:37):
How much is that little bit of artificial slush this
guy's taking actually worth twenty five cents? Who's Robin who
over here? By the time DNA Info New York sat
down for an interview with a fired up manager in
early September, the petty thief with slurpy water in his
veins had been helping himself to the ice cold beverage

(01:03:58):
for over a month. Employees aren't sure what to make
of this guy the first few times. Then it became
crystal clear he's just a jerk manager havim quote. We thought,
maybe he doesn't understand, maybe he has a mental problem
or something, But no, he's totally normal. After we spoke
with him, he one hundred percent understands he's doing it

(01:04:18):
on purpose. End quote. Another employee chimed in and said, quote,
it's just a hassle.

Speaker 9 (01:04:25):
But what are you gonna do?

Speaker 12 (01:04:26):
You know, it's a slurpy end quote Exactly. You can
kind of see their predicament here. You don't want to
tackle the guy over a two dollars drink. In the
grand scheme of things, it's not really a big deal.
This being New York. I'm sure they deal with these
small thefts on a regular basis. It's the habitualness of
it all that has them up in arms. The guy's
coming in almost daily. He's a regular, and it's become

(01:04:49):
a part of their day. A serial slurpy thief. It's great.
Maybe this guy's poor and can't afford the tasty treat,
or maybe it's all a game for him. He enjoys
the angered employees' reactions. It's just a big joke. I'm
going with the latter. Let's get yet another manager helen. Quote.
On his way out, he shows the cup and says goodbye.

(01:05:11):
He shows the cup like he's laughing at us. End quote. Okay,
it's official. It's definitely a joke. To this man instead
of just trying to sneak out with anyone knowing. In
a final fu to the employees, he raises his glass
and bids them farewell. I love the showmanship. Thanks guys,
see you tomorrow the best. The NYPD say they'll keep

(01:05:33):
an eye out for the guy, but let's be honest,
they're not looking. Surely they have more serious crimes to
contend with. The story is going to have to take
matters into their own hands, take a more aggressive approach,
keep an eye out, and when they see him, cut
the guy off before he makes the long walk to
the back of the store and refuse him service at
the Slurpey station. That shouldn't be hard, right wrong, The

(01:05:55):
Slurpy Bandit is just too sneaky. Final manager Heven quote.
We tried to catch him, but whenever the store is busy,
he sneaks inside and takes a cup and then leaves.
It's like he's watching us from outside. End quote. Oh man,
we're dealing with a criminal mastermind. With the amount of
effort the Slurpy Bandit puts into these mini heists, I

(01:06:16):
say just let him have it, maybe even flip the
script on him, kill him. With kindness. He seems to
get off on angering the employees, so when they see him,
they should ask how's day's going, Chat about the weather.
It's a hot one today, isn't it, Give him flavor
recommendations as he's leaving, tell him to have a nice day,
or say thank you, come again, see you tomorrow, or

(01:06:39):
just go hey, enjoy that one's on me.

Speaker 13 (01:06:42):
Bro.

Speaker 12 (01:06:42):
He'd probably lose interest or actually start feeling bad. Lipstickaley
dot com covered this story. Yes, I have only the
best sources, and message boards were getting lit up. A
few people were on the store's side, but an overwhelming
majority we're siding with the bandit. Swedish chick x three
said to be honest, I really don't care if someone

(01:07:04):
wants to steal a bunch of slurpees. This story is
hilarious and we should just let him keep doing what
he's doing. Eight seven seven cash Now says, I hope
he's stealing the Pina colada flavor. That one is so good.
They went on to say, I think I might know
who it is. If there was a reward, I'm turning
him in. Someone should track her down. An interrogator, La

(01:07:28):
las Sharp has a good idea she said they should
do like the BSS. They blow up an image of
the person stealing, along with a blow up of the
person's face and place it on the window to put
him or her on blast for others to identify, and
I guess humiliate the person to the point he might
not ever enter again. I don't know what the BSS
is some store, I guess, but that's a good idea.

(01:07:50):
Try to shame him into stopping. That might backfire and
turn the guy into local celebrity though, just adding more
fuel to the fire. To my knowledge, which the serial
Slurpy Bandit in New York City was never caught. At
least if he was, it didn't make any headlines. Police
probably would have just urged him to stop and told
him if he didn't, they can nail him for petty theft, mischief,

(01:08:13):
all the usual stuff. I'm sure over time he just
lost interest and moved on. Either way, I'm raising a
glass to the serial Slurpy Bandit because I like his style.
Enjoy the rest of your summer, everyone, because I know
I will.

Speaker 2 (01:08:30):
In our next segment from Beyond the Rainbow podcast, our
host CJ helps us turn up the heat in our
investigation of crimes committed by and against the LGBTQ plus community.

Speaker 13 (01:08:41):
Hey there, I'm CJ from Beyond the Rainbow, True crimes
of the LGBTQ plus. Your gender and sexual identity doesn't
matter for you to listen to my podcasts. In fact,
I'd say at least fifty percent of my listeners identify
as straight allies, So welcome. WHA what are there any

(01:09:03):
basketball fans in the house? Well, regardless of whether you
are or not, I do have a story for you,
and in my opinion, it's always important we give voices
to the victims. At the beginning of the year two
thousand and fourteen, NBA superstar Reggie Bullock had three sisters

(01:09:23):
and one brother. The pro team Reggie was best known
for being part of was the Detroit Pistons. Reggie's now
with the Houston Rockets. He's called this small forward with
his height being sixty six and weighed around two hundred
and five pounds, and quite frankly, that's not very small
to me. In the summer of two thousand and fourteen,

(01:09:48):
Reggie lost one of his sisters. She was murdered. This sister,
Mia Henderson, was born as Kevin Long. Kevin Long is
what her dead name would be. And just in case
you aren't quite sure what a dead name is, it's
a person's given name that they no longer wish to
be called. Therefore, the name is dead. And since Mia

(01:10:11):
was assigned male at birth, it stands to reason she
most likely suffered from gender dysphoria, that is, up until
her transitioning into a female. For my research, I often
equate gender dysphoria to wearing underwear that are six times
too tight twenty four seven. It's a discomfort that nags

(01:10:34):
at the person who asks to bear it. Relief from
it only really comes from hormone therapy and later gender
reassignment surgery. I hope that helps some to understand. I
had to compare it to something so I could get
a grasp of it when I first started my podcast,

(01:10:54):
Although not too long ago, I did speak with a
trans woman who told me not all transfolk go through
gender dysphoria, and I guess that perplexed me and I
should master then why bother? If it isn't physically or
mentally unbearable to be the gender you were assigned, why
would anybody want to put themselves through the heartbreak of

(01:11:16):
possibly being ostracized not just by friends and family, but
by a good portion of society, not to mention screwing
with your hormones and having any surgical procedure done to
your body if it's not a necessary procedure for good
mental and physical help. But I didn't ask her, so

(01:11:37):
I really don't have an answer, which is why I'd
say a good portion of trans folk do suffer from
gender dysphoria, and nobody should ever have to be uncomfortable
in the body they were born in. In the summer
of twenty fourteen, twenty six year old Mia was living
in Baltimore, Maryland. July sixteenth, Mio was hanging out on

(01:12:01):
a street it was well known as a place sex
workers frequented. This was in northwest Baltimore. Mio was a
survival sex worker, and she'd been arrested twice before. This
was for allegedly selling her body for sex. Regardless of
having a wealthy, famous brother, she just might have been

(01:12:23):
too proud to ask him for handouts. A neighbor who
lived in the area Mia was working said she had
looked out her window around five am and she saw
Mia duck into an alleyway with a light skinned black man.
The man was wearing a white T shirt, a white
baseball cap, and blue jeans. The neighbor said that the

(01:12:46):
man was looking around as though he were nervous. An
hour later, at six am, MIA's body was found. She'd
been stabbed to death. That same neighbor who witnessed me
Mia walking into the alleyway with the sketchy looking man,
had said she had seen Mia in the same spot

(01:13:06):
many times in the early morning hours for months leading
up to her death. After MIA's autopsy report came back,
the medical examiner found DNA from a potential suspect under
her fingernails. Police arrested and charged a forty two year old,
very dark skinned man named Sean Oliver with MIA's murder.

(01:13:30):
Sean ended up going to trial, and even though it
seemed that the prosecutor had an air tight case against him,
especially with Sean's DNA under MIA's fingernails, the DNA was
easily explained away by Sean. He told the court that
the night before he and Mia had consensual sex. Phone

(01:13:52):
records seemed to confirm what Sean was claiming. The jury
acquitted him of MIA's murder. And with Sean no longer
a suspect for MIA's murder, her case went cold. The
day Reggie Bullock received the news of MIA's murder, he
took to social media to mourn the loss of his

(01:14:12):
brother Kevin. Critics came down hard on him for using
MIA's dead name and non preferred pronouns, but since this,
Reggie has used his platform to speak out in favor
of the LGBTQ community and especially transfolk, and as a side,
tragedy hit again for Reggie Bullock. In twenty nineteen, he

(01:14:36):
lost yet another sister in Baltimore. Twenty two year old
Kyosha was also murdered brest in Power Mia in Kyosha Again,
This was CJ from Beyond the Rainbow, true crimes of
the LGBTQ, and I want you to know you matter.
Remember it's not a crime to be gay by trans

(01:15:00):
Where to live your truth? I'm not sure a murderer.

Speaker 1 (01:15:06):
Here to heat things up even more is the mother
daughter duo from Murder and Mimosas, who sip mimosas and
hone their investigative skills each week.

Speaker 14 (01:15:15):
Welcome to Murder Mimosas. I'm Danica and I'm Shannon today.
We are part of a collaboration talking about the summertime,
and we decided to pick out a case that has
been called for quite a while and could use the
heat to bring it back to life and talk about
Robin Farnsworth.

Speaker 5 (01:15:36):
So Robin was from the little town I graduated from
in Vonnab, Arkansas. She was a fifteen year old mother.
She had a little girl when she went missing. She
was I think I said she's fifteen, but she was
fifteen at the time. Her mother happened to call her
in missing about four days later, and they felt like

(01:15:57):
she was a runaway because she had ran away before,
and the police didn't really look into it. They just
felt like she was a runaway. They didn't do anything
they really should have done, and there wasn't really anything
said about it until around March when two boys were

(01:16:17):
arrested on another charge. While they were arrested or sitting
in jail, one of the young men, Donnie Temple, gave
a statement to the jailer stating that he knew what
happened to Robin, that Derek Grubbs, who was eighteen at
the time, had shaken him out to a barn and
showed him that Robin had been beaten, that he'd beat

(01:16:40):
her and covered her with newspaper. The police did go
out to the barn and they found decomposition and a
purple fingernail, but they never found the body at that time,
and that was all they did. They never looked any
further for her at that time.

Speaker 14 (01:16:57):
In nineteen ninety seven, a hunter who was just a
mile or so away from his home came across the
remains of what was clearly a human skull with the
job attached. He contacted the police to let them know
because he also found very small shoes which he thought

(01:17:18):
was a child shoe. Very little was told to him
at that time. He didn't hear much about it. Then
one officer to tell him that it was likely the
remains of Robin Farnsworth from two years previous, since this
was the same general area where Donnie had given a

(01:17:38):
statement to the jailer about Ben's body being Despite the
hunter keeping an eye on the news, checking the newspaper,
nothing really was said about the remains that he found. Now,
it wasn't full remains, but there was definitely enough for
them to do some sort of testing. In March of
two thousand and three, just three three years after leadership

(01:18:03):
changed within the department unclaimed, an unlabeled box was found
in the evidence room. When it was opened, there were
bones inside. Again that was unclear whose they could be
because there was nothing labeling these or tying them to
any open cases. They sent the bones off to have

(01:18:26):
them tested and it ended up being those of Robin Farnsworth.
They had been unidentified remains for many years. Family had
no idea that she had in fact been found. It
was just very heartbreaking for family in the loved ones

(01:18:47):
of Robin, especially her brother and her daughter, who all
this time had no information about where her mother had gone,
if she had in fact just ran away, or if
something sinister had happened.

Speaker 5 (01:19:02):
In fact, didn't her mother think that she had seen
Robin at times?

Speaker 14 (01:19:08):
Yes, So when Donnie You talked about his statement to
the jailer, they spoke to Robin's mother who claimed that
she saw Robin after the time that Donnie had claimed
to see Robin's body in the barn. And since they
at the time that he gave a statement was unable

(01:19:30):
to find any evidence to confirm or deny, they really
didn't take it any further, but it seems that considering
we were talking feet away from where Doronnie claimed to
have seen Robin's body is where her remains were found,
that he was likely correct. But the sad thing is,

(01:19:51):
despite this, there have been no arrests made and no
real investigation done. Robin's family still has no idea what
happened to Robin or had any justice in her death,
an extremely sad event. Her daughter is grown and does

(01:20:12):
not have any answer. She is pleaded on local television.
Robin's brother has also pleaded on local television. He has
made statements to newspapers. He even wrote an article asking
for answers. The family feels that the only way this

(01:20:33):
case will be solved is if someone who knows something
becomes tired of holding their secret. Scary part is the
person that is heavily under the suspicion. Derek Grubbs is
now available to have parole because of the change in
twenty thirteen with the Supreme Court. He was a minor

(01:20:55):
at the time that he was convicted on another crime,
so he went from life in prison with no parole
to the possibility of parole. That possibility is coming soon
and it would be scary if he maybe had the
hand in Robin's murder for him to walk. There's a
whole lot more to Robin's case and the case that

(01:21:19):
is tied to hers Kanyadas. I'm currently working on a book,
No Immediate Cause, about the two young girls cases and
the possible link that may bind them together. If you
would like to follow us on social media Murder and
Mimosa's Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, x whatever it is called now

(01:21:43):
and TikTok, you can keep up with the release of
the book so that you can read in depth about
this and come to your own conclusion. Could Derek have
had a hand in Robin's death like he did Kanyadas
or Robin the victim of someone completely different.

Speaker 2 (01:22:04):
Alison and Maggie from Coffee and Cases like their coffee
hot and their cases cold, but they're focused on bringing
light to lesser known cases to let families know they
are never alone.

Speaker 1 (01:22:15):
Hello from Coffee and Cases True crime podcast, where we
like our coffee hot and our cases cold.

Speaker 15 (01:22:22):
I'm Alison and I'm Maggie, and you can check out
new episodes of our podcast every Thursday on your favorite
podcasting app to hear coverage of many lesser known cases
that are screaming for justice just like this one. If
you would like to hear our full coverage of this case,
make sure to check out Coffee and Cases Podcast, episode
two thirty five. Mary and Susie Raker.

Speaker 1 (01:22:44):
Maggie, you know as I do, that the earmark for
the end of summer in our minds as teachers is
when the school year starts back.

Speaker 15 (01:22:54):
Oh I'm already having like the back to school nine maares.
Oh I forgot to make coffees on the birthday.

Speaker 6 (01:22:58):
Oh no, the copy year is broken. Yeah, yes, Well.

Speaker 1 (01:23:02):
On Labor Day, September two of nineteen seventy four, in
Saint Cloud, Minnesota, fifteen year old Mary Raker was about
to do just that. She attended an all girls high
school out of town, and they were to start back
to school the next day. She was getting everything together

(01:23:23):
that she would need before she was to ride with
another friend and that friend's family on the forty five
minute drive to Saint Francis High School in Little Falls
that afternoon, where Mary would be a sophomore. Mary had
actually spent quite a bit of her time that summer
with her grandparents, who lived in the nearby town of

(01:23:44):
Luxembourg and Mary's parents they could see some changes in Mary.
There really is a marked move from child to young adult.
I think from ages thirteen really to fifteen.

Speaker 15 (01:24:00):
I think it can be hard for parents to come
to grips with that. I know, like my mother in
law always says about Anthony, she put him to bed
at twelve, and then when he woke up at thirteen,
she was like, who is this human that I have
in my house? Yeah, and so I think it's kind
of hard for parents when kids start to change into

(01:24:23):
a young adult instead of that child.

Speaker 6 (01:24:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:24:25):
Mary's parents worried, I think, as we all do, Like
you said, if the changes were normal teenage ones, or
if there was something deeper going on with Mary. Her
mother told a reporter from CBS News, quote, I knew
something wasn't right, but she wasn't saying what it was.

(01:24:45):
End quote. Despite any growing pains or concerns, the family
had actually spent a wonderful day on September one at
a family reunion. The majority of the supplies had actually
already been purchased for Mary to start school. In fact,
it does sound like Mary's mother, Rita believed at least

(01:25:07):
that she had purchased everything that Mary needed already, and
this last day before Mary was to go off to school.
Rita actually was expecting that Mary would be helping a
little bit around the house before making that drive, and
it was likely a bit frustrating when Mary bounded into
the room and insisted that she needed to go back

(01:25:31):
to the department store Zayrs to not only pick out
a winter coat, but also to get a few more
school supplies.

Speaker 15 (01:25:38):
She's before latered. Yeah, she wants to be prepared.

Speaker 1 (01:25:42):
She just wants the extra. The shopping center where Zayr's
was located at thirty third Avenue and Division Street, was
about a mile walk from the Raper home. While Mary
was only one of the Raker's six children, it was
only Mary's younger twelve year old sister Suzanne, who was

(01:26:03):
called Susie or Sue by friends and family, who decided
to go with her to the store. It actually makes
sense to me the importance of, like we were saying,
just the right school supplies, especially for students who loved school,
and it seems like they did. According to an article
for wjon dot com, Mary wanted to be a teacher

(01:26:26):
and twelve year old Susie who was learning to play
the violin, had dreaming, I know, had dreams to be
a doctor, which she grew up as good for Susie. Yeah,
so as they ran out the door to the store,
they waved goodbye to their father, Fred, who was painting
the family's home. So everybody's busy mistay, Mom Rita told

(01:26:48):
CBS News quote they left about eleven fifteen from what
I recall that morning, they said they would be back early.
Rita actually received a phone call from that family who
was supposed to drive Mary to school, telling her that
instead of them leaving during the early afternoon around four pm,

(01:27:08):
they would be heading to school just after dinner around
seven pm, So a little bit of a delay, and
that news was perfect for Rita because that would give
Mary plenty of time to go to their store and
then come home and still be able to help out
before leaving. However, since Mary wasn't there for mom Rita

(01:27:30):
to tell her the news right away, the phone call
obviously was soon forgotten. Mary would obviously be back with
plenty of time for Rita to let her know later.
But the time when Mary was originally set to leave
came and went, but Mary and Susie didn't return home.

Speaker 15 (01:27:51):
And that's quite a bit of time. That's like five hours.

Speaker 1 (01:27:53):
Right, And as far as Mary knew, she was supposed
to leave for school around four. Soon it was dinnertime,
Still no sign of her daughters. Rita and her husband
Frank grew extremely concerned. Rita told wjoin dot com quote,
I remember fixing supper that evening, and we generally ate

(01:28:15):
around five o'clock, and when they weren't there, we knew
something was wrong. End quote. This was not like her children,
so it makes sense, as Rita later told CBS News, quote,
when it got to be six thirty seven pm, my
husband went to the police department to report that they
were missing.

Speaker 15 (01:28:34):
Yeah, because, like we said, that's a bit of time already.

Speaker 1 (01:28:38):
And remember that this was nineteen seventy four, Maggie, so
you can likely guess the police perspective on the report.

Speaker 15 (01:28:46):
Oh, they ran away, h per.

Speaker 1 (01:28:48):
And APM reports article published October eleventh, twenty sixteen, and
written by Jennifer Vogel and Madeline Baar end quote. Fred
and Rita had a hard time getting the case taken
serious by the Saint Cloud Police Department, which believed the
girls had simply run away, and later the Stearns County
Sheriff's office, which was in the middle of an election.

(01:29:10):
It just seemed we couldn't move the powers that be,
Raker said, so family members searched on their own. We
were very frustrated at that time and angry about the
whole thing. End quote.

Speaker 15 (01:29:23):
That's such a common theme for episodes or a case
is rather that we have covered. I just feel like
maybe lives could be saved if we took things seriously
from the get go.

Speaker 1 (01:29:35):
Right And what is the problem with taking things more seriously?

Speaker 15 (01:29:38):
Exactly?

Speaker 1 (01:29:40):
Eventually, Even though there are many mistakes that have long
been noted about the investigation, some additional details were discovered.
Here are some of the gaps that have been filled
in thanks to sightings of Mary and Susie. A manager
at a shop Coast store saw Mary and Susie right
before noon. An hour later, around one to one thirty PM,

(01:30:04):
or just after, a neighborhood boy named Jacob Younger ran
into the two girls in Zayr's.

Speaker 15 (01:30:12):
Which makes sense because they left like around eleven.

Speaker 1 (01:30:15):
Yes, and it's a mile away, so that takes a
little bit of time to walk. As the two girls
continued on. He saw them headed toward the grocery section
of Zayr, which from the descriptions in my mind sounds
a lot like a Walmart because it had groceries clothing.

Speaker 15 (01:30:38):
I was picturing a Sears old Tommy Sears.

Speaker 1 (01:30:42):
Did Sears have groceries?

Speaker 15 (01:30:44):
I don't know. I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (01:30:45):
Maybe that's just what's in your head. Yeah. The grocery
section of the store was closed for the holiday, remember
this was Labor Day. But interesting, this section with winter
coats could be accessed by walking through the grocery section,
so that the details of that sighting, plus it being

(01:31:05):
by a neighbor who knew the girls, made sense. And
that sighting is trusted, so we at least know their
whereabouts until around one thirty ish. But there was something
that Jacob Younger overheard bits and pieces of and a
private conversation between Mary and Susie that haunted him after

(01:31:26):
their disappearance. Younger told a reporter with the Minneapolis Star
in nineteen seventy seven that he heard twelve year old
Susie say to her older sister Mary something like quote,
I don't want to go with that man. I don't
like him let's not end quote. Oh, as Jacob Younger

(01:31:50):
was leaving the store himself, he noticed a nervous looking
man outside the store. Well here's the thing, though, whether
where this is the man that Susie was referring to
is unknown. Photographs as well as bulletins were sent out,
according to w JO and files to quote, all major

(01:32:13):
cities in five Upper Midwest states and to every state
crime bureau end quote. So even though there's a lot
written about bungling the investigation, at least some information was shared.

Speaker 15 (01:32:29):
Conveyed early on.

Speaker 1 (01:32:31):
Yeah, descriptions of the two girls and what they were
last seen wearing Mary and jeans, an army fatigue jacket
with Raker on a front pocket and her green wirerim
glasses and Susie in blue corduroy pants, a short, white
cotton jacket and gold wire rimmed glasses were also distributed.

(01:32:53):
Then the days and the weeks passed, Maggie with no
additional words or details. The girls were seen in Zayres
and then nothing that we can verify. And it saddens
me that the Raker family, who had just celebrated a reunion,

(01:33:14):
was now so disjointed, just shy of four weeks after
the girl's disappearance, the family received additional news. Around two
pm on September twenty eighth, nineteen seventy four, two teenage
boys had been in the quarry area near Waite Park
and had stumbled upon a body. The body that was

(01:33:39):
discovered was twelve year old Susie's body. Again, this was
around two pm. When police responded. They found her fully clothed,
but her body had been placed under a bush in
some tall grass about thirteen yards from the quarry. She

(01:34:00):
had been stabbed thirteen times while yes. In surveying the area,
police also located clothing, but the clothing wasn't Susie's. It
was clothing that matched Mary's outfit that she was last
seen wearing. Obviously, they know we've got to do more.

(01:34:21):
End up searching in this area, and after searching the
waters below that is where they located around six pm
that same day, forty feet below the surface of the water,
fifteen year old Mary's body as well. Mary found nude,

(01:34:41):
had been stabbed six times.

Speaker 15 (01:34:44):
So very violins these girls.

Speaker 1 (01:34:47):
Meant very Neither girl had defensive wounds, and because of decomposition,
investigators were unable to tell whether either girl had been
sexually assaulted. Of the clothing collected, they found Mary's pants

(01:35:08):
and underwear on the cliffs of the quarry in a
way that led them to believe that the perpetrator had
tried to throw them into the water below as well.

Speaker 15 (01:35:18):
Which makes me think maybe there was some type of assault.

Speaker 1 (01:35:23):
Her braw had been cut off of her and cut
into four pieces. Rita Raker told Saint Cloud Times reporter
David UN's quote, we definitely went through all those emotions
of just fear, first of all because we didn't know
who it was, and then anger that so little seemed

(01:35:46):
to be done at the time, and it seemed like
nobody knew what to do end quote. One thing was
clear now, though, Maggie. Passing off the girl's disappearance as
a runaway situation could no longer be an excuse. Now
they needed a real and thorough investigation with this revised focus. Maggie,

(01:36:13):
if you've got chills Before a chilling discovery was made
in a place that was right under everyone's noses the
whole time. Mary's diary stop it, she had written the
following message, quote should I die, I ask that my
stuffed animals be given to my sister, and if I

(01:36:36):
am murdered, see that justice wins over. I have a
few reasons to fear for my life. What I ask
is important? End quote.

Speaker 15 (01:36:50):
Holy cow.

Speaker 1 (01:36:53):
Yeah, So that tells you this was not something that
was sudden. Mattick or Bruce Bechteld, the Stearns County Sheriff's
chief deputy, in twenty sixteen, told a reporter from Twin
Cities dot Com quote, it's pretty significant to look at that.
You certainly can't rule that out because what fifteen year

(01:37:17):
old girl writes that?

Speaker 8 (01:37:19):
End quote.

Speaker 1 (01:37:21):
Mom Rita Raker told Fox nine. Quote, she wrote it
to our family, and she said, see that justice wins over.
That's hard. That was my child end quote.

Speaker 15 (01:37:35):
I mean my jaws on the floor.

Speaker 7 (01:37:37):
Hm.

Speaker 1 (01:37:38):
And especially since so much time would pass without any convictions,
without any justice, struggles would continue to plague the investigation.
Some of those noted by care eleven include lost police reports,

(01:37:59):
evidence in detectives' desks rather than in evidence, and suspect
names which were given to police who were never interviewed
at all. And in all the years since, there hasn't
been enough evidence to charge anyone with the crime. But

(01:38:21):
that doesn't mean that there aren't theories based on the
investigation over the last fifty years. That gives us hope
for answers.

Speaker 15 (01:38:31):
To hear the rest of the case, including information about
the investigation and those theories. Check out Coffee and Cases podcast.
Until then, Stay Together and Stay Safe.

Speaker 1 (01:38:44):
Bringing us to a close is Dawn from Method and
Madness podcast, where pursuit of the truth takes center stage,
exploring every angle with intense dedication to immersive storytelling, insight,
and advocacy.

Speaker 16 (01:39:00):
Kristin stepped outside the trailer into the hot, humid August night,
closing the door behind her. She headed toward the road.
It was dark around eleven thirty p m. With only
the soft glowing light from nearby homes guiding her way
and a blanket of stars above. As the grass met
the roadway, Kristen placed a bare foot on to the pavement.

(01:39:22):
There was no smooth, white sidewalk and the pebbles were
rough under her feet as she walked on the side
of Route one thirty nine in the rural town of Ovid,
New York. She was dressed in a red and white
striped sleeveless sweater and white capri pants. To her right
a few modest houses to her left a cornfield. The

(01:39:44):
headlights from oncoming traffic would momentarily blind her as they
passed by. It wasn't a heavily trafficked road. Most of
the passer by at that time of night were driving
home from work at the nearby army depot or from
Willard Asylum. Some were headed to the local bar for
a nightcap. A few witnesses in those passing cars later

(01:40:05):
said they saw the twenty year old woman walking on
the side of the road. She didn't appear to be
in distress. One local man reported that he saw a
green or blue car pull up next to Kristin as
if stopping to chat with her. Behind it was another car.
Just after midnight, Kristin had turned around and was walking

(01:40:26):
back toward the trailer. Witnesses later said they saw two
men in their twenties walking about fifty yards behind her.
Who those two men were, who owned the green or
blue car is still a mystery nearly thirty nine years later.
Kristin never made it back to the trailer that night,

(01:40:46):
and nobody else came forward saying they saw anything. At
least one person heard what they described as a blood
curdling scream coming from near the cornfield after midnight. It
took until the next afternoon for Kristen to be reported
missing by the young man she'd been visiting that week.
The New York State Police called Kristen's parents back in Minnesota,

(01:41:08):
and her younger brother, Kyle, remembers painfully how his mother, Phyllis,
upon hearing that her daughter was missing, cried out, She's dead.

Speaker 14 (01:41:18):
I know it.

Speaker 16 (01:41:20):
Kristen's father, Mike, immediately took a flight to New York
and joined the search for his only daughter. That Friday,
two days after Kristen had taken her walk, she was found.
Fire Fighters, police and volunteers had combed the area and
found Kristen's body in that cornfield, adjacent to the very

(01:41:41):
road she'd walk on the night of August fourteenth, nineteen
eighty five. She was naked with multiple stab wounds. She'd
put up quite a fight, but was no match for
whoever she came across that night. It was a shock
to the residence of the tiny village in the Finger
Lakes region of New York State. How did a twenty

(01:42:02):
year old woman from out of town end up murdered,
left in a Cornfield. Why was she out walking so
late at night and why wasn't she wearing shoes. Kristin
came from a loving family of four. Their suburban home
was outside Minneapolis in Burnsville, Minnesota. Kristin was a visitor
to Ovid, hoping to strike up a romance with the

(01:42:24):
young man she'd met just five months earlier while visiting
Captiva Island in Florida on spring break. Jim Vermiersch was
a nineteen year old who was working down in Captiva temporarily,
and after corresponding with Kristin for months, he invited her
to his parents' home in Ovid, New York that summer.

(01:42:44):
It promised to be a fun week in the sun, swimming, fishing, barbecues,
but nothing went according to plan. When Kristin arrived in
Ovid on August twelfth, nineteen eighty five, she was surprised
to find out she wouldn't be stayed with Jim at
his family home. Instead, he'd recently rented out a trailer

(01:43:05):
located next to a local bar, the Golden Buck, and
the two were going to stay there for the week.
Kristin was a sport and embraced her surroundings though she
was immediately left confused and hurt when Jim spent most
of his time working and telling her he'd taken on
extra shifts. Two days into Kristen's stay, she used a

(01:43:26):
payphone at the Golden Buck and called her mom back home,
telling her she was cutting her trip short. Phyllis O'Connell
didn't pry, but wishes to this day that she had.
Later that night, Jim and several of his friends sat
drinking and smoking pot inside the trailer. Kristin, feeling ignored

(01:43:47):
and wondering why she'd been invited out there in the
first place, spoke with one of the party guests and
was told that Jim had at least one girlfriend there.
In Ovid, Kristin was known to take night walks, and
it wasn't unusual for her to do so. That night.
She left the trailer to get some air and clear
her head, and intended on returning. All of her belongings,

(01:44:11):
including her purse, suit case, and shoes, were back at
the trailer. Who did she encounter that night during her walk?
Who would want to harm this beautiful, kind young woman.
After Kristen's body was found, police said they ruled out
Jim and his friends of suspects, despite the fact that
none of them called the police until she'd been missing

(01:44:32):
for over thirteen hours. Rumors began swirling around the tiny
rural village, and to this day they still do. Was
Kristin's murder the result of her having seen something she
shouldn't have. Murmurs of a drug business that ran from
Captiva Island up to Ovid led skeptics to wonder if Kristin,

(01:44:53):
who was always on the straight and narrow, had unknowingly
walked into a questionable situation, or was it jealousy, a
green eyed monster who saw the Brooks Shields look alike
as a threat. Another theory was that Kristin was killed
by three local men known as the pig Roasters on

(01:45:14):
the night of Kristen's murder, before anyone even knew she
was missing. A local woman said she'd been sitting at
a table in her kitchen when her stepbrother and his
friends came home covered in blood, but they claimed it
was from slaughtering a pig for a pig roast. As
of twenty twenty four, there have been several lead investigators

(01:45:35):
that have had Kristen's case. Advocates have pleaded with New
York State Police to use an outside forensics lab to
test the evidence that was found in the cornfield, Kristen's
clothing and the hares that were found. Kristen's mother, Phyllis O'Connell,
is now eighty four years old. She tells me personally

(01:45:55):
nearly every week that she just wants to know before
she dies who is responsible.

Speaker 17 (01:46:02):
I vowed that after she was found there that I
would never rest, never until I find out who did.

Speaker 8 (01:46:10):
This to her and who killed her.

Speaker 17 (01:46:12):
This I just can't believe if anybody really knew her,
they would have killed her.

Speaker 16 (01:46:24):
This case was brought to you by Method and Madness,
a true crime podcast. I'm Dawn and you can listen
to this show on your favorite podcast platform. Find more
at and Madness podcast dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:46:40):
Thank you, and that concludes our special series called Hot Pursuit.
These stories have taken us through the grueling efforts of
those who refuse to let the flames of justice die out.
From summer crimes to cold cases, the pursuit of justice
is a journey that demands resilience and determination.

Speaker 2 (01:47:03):
A heartfelt thank you to all the podcasters who contributed
to this collaboration. Your dedication to uncovering information about and
to sharing these stories is truly inspiring.

Speaker 1 (01:47:14):
Remember, the pursuit of justice doesn't end with us, and
if any of the cases we've discussed resonate with you,
share the stories, spread the word, and keep the search
for truth alive.

Speaker 2 (01:47:27):
Stay connected with our podcasters by liking and following their shows,
which are listed in our show notes. Thank you for
joining us on this journey.

Speaker 1 (01:47:35):
Until next time, stay vigilant, stay informed, and remember that
together we can keep the fire of justice burning brightly.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Hot Pursuit: A True Crime Podcast Collaboration (Part 2)

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

All Episodes

Hot Pursuit: A True Crime Podcast Collaboration (Part 2)

Stuff You Should Know