A Redemptive Birth - From "Almost" to "Empowering" - Metro Detroit Birth Stories

Episode Transcript
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Exie (00:00):
Welcome to Metro Detroit Birth Stories, where we

(00:03):
celebrate the power, wisdom, andbeauty of birth.
One story at a time.
I'm your host, Exie Buehler abirth and postpartum doula,
childbirth educator, andmaternal mental and emotional
wellness coach.
My passion for supportingbirthing families began 20 years
ago.
And has only grown since then inthis space, you'll hear real

(00:28):
birth stories from Metro Detroitand beyond, along with insights
from my work that might resonatewith your own journey because
every birth story matters andevery journey deserves to be
heard.
Please note that this podcast isintended for entertainment and
informational purposes only.

(00:49):
The stories shared are from theperspective of the person
sharing it and do not representmy thoughts, opinions, or views.
I am a non-medical professionalwhose thoughts, opinions, and
views are my own.
So nothing said should beconstrued or understood as
medical advice.
Please discuss all of yourconcerns or questions with your

(01:12):
pregnancy provider.
Now, let's hear today's story.
Today on Metro Detroit BirthStories, we have Kristi Hodson
who's going to share her births.
Kristi, I'm so excited to haveyou here today.
When you reached out to shareyour birth story, I literally
could feel the joy in yourwords, and I am so honored to

(01:33):
have you share this experiencewith us, both of your
experiences, and to have thisopportunity to actually get to
talk to you about it.
So before we begin, can you giveus a brief introduction to who
you are?

Kristi Hodson (01:46):
Sure.
Thank you for having me here.
I think it is so amazing andpowerful to be able to share
birth stories, and I jumped atthe chance to share it with your
listeners.
My name is Kristi Hodson.
I am a mother of two.
I'm 41.
I live in southeast Michigan inthe Ann Arbor, Canton area.
And by profession, I'm a, I'm abusiness owner.

(02:07):
I own Artistic Kitchens, whichis a small family owned kitchen
and bath design business.
So it's a little bit about me.

Exie (02:15):
Wonderful.
And you've had two births andthey've been very, very
different.
So in one word, what would youuse to describe your first
birth?

Oh, it's so hard.
So the, the word that I used todescribe that one is, it's
almost what I wanted.
I had had this picture in mymind of this beautiful water
birth in a tub.
I, I saw this a video during mychildbirth class of this
beautiful water birth.
And like ever since then, I waslike, I was hooked.

(02:48):
I wanted that and I almost gotit, but I didn't the first time
around.

Exie (02:53):
Wow, what a great word to describe that.
And, and we're gonna learn whyit almost happened.

Yes.

Exie (03:02):
So let's, let's go ahead and start with that story of
your son Graham.
Right.
Is, is that

Yeah.

Exie (03:07):
say his name?

Perfect.
Yeah.
Sounds good.
It's hard because, you know,there are so many people with
traumatic birth.
I didn't have a traumatic birth,but it wasn't what I wanted.
And knowing what I know now andhaving experienced birth twice,
I wish I could go back and talkto, you know, first time mom,
me, and do things a littledifferently, you know?

(03:28):
With that, with that birth, Ihad gestational diabetes and I'm
advanced maternal age, I'm 41.
And the they were watching mevery, very closely.
I, I chose midwifery care overOB care because I wanted a very.
Natural childbirth.
I went to the childbirth classthat was offered at Nest and
Nurture.
And again, in 2021 it was likeheld outside, six feet apart.

Exie (03:53):
Yeah.

we learned about what natural birth could look
like and what support of a doulalooks like.
I remember our, our teacher wasCynthia Gabriel.
She wrote the book NaturalHospital Birth, and she was
fantastic.
But she showed us a video inclass and that was the first
time I'd ever seen like a realbirth, like not a, not a TV

(04:14):
birth, right?
Like that's the first time I'dever seen it was in my birth
class when I'm pregnant, aboutto give birth myself.
And it was this water birth andthis woman looked so like,
powerful and it wasn't anythinglike you see in the movies where
there's like, you know, waterbreaks screaming, like it was
just very peaceful and thatreally what I wanted.

(04:35):
I was like, I wanna give birthin the tub and I want it to be
peaceful.
And no medications, nointerventions, like spontaneous
labor.
And I didn't get that spoileralert.
So with the gestational diabeteswatching me closely, I was
getting these like NST tests andbiophysical profile tests and
like tons of visits to U of Mhospital.

(04:57):
I was working with the midwivesat U of M Hospital and, you
know, they're like, everything'sgood every time we checked him.
Everything's good with baby,everything's good with baby.
And then, you know, it got, youknow, toward my due date and
even beyond my due date it wasfour days past 40 weeks, which
is such an arbitrary number.
But, they said, okay, like the,the fluid's getting lower and

(05:19):
lower and lower and lower we'reon the cusp of not having enough
amniotic fluid.
And then with gestationaldiabetes, my blood sugars had
returned to normal, like I couldeat carbs without getting
spikes.
And they they did a consult andsaid, you know, there's concerns
about the placenta.
There's a lot of things addingup here, right?

(05:39):
My, my age, the gestationaldiabetes and the blood sugar
returning to normal, there's theamniotic fluid.
Like, we really think thatinduction is the best choice
here.
So I was like really sad.
I kind of like mourned the ideaof just this cool, spontaneous
going into labor.
And I went home, like my headwas spinning.

(06:03):
Packed my bags.
I called my partner and my mom,they were my two support people
at the hospital.
And we went in that evening andthe induction was like a slow
process.
It just is, right?
I was my cervix was really readyand you know, very soft.
Like, I think I was like onlyat, you know, a fingertip or

(06:24):
something.
But we started with a Foleyballoon and it got me to
whatever, it was, like fourcentimeters by the next morning.
And, but labor didn't reallystart, I didn't have any
contractions.
Nothing was happening.
So we're trying like, you know,nipple simulation and we're
trying walking.
And you know, I walked toAngelo's, the restaurant by U of
M Hospital.

(06:45):
We like had a little meal there,walked back like we nothing was
happening.
And by 3:00 PM the midwife thatwas on staff said, you know, I
really think you should considerPitocin.
And that was just like, youknow, a swear word in my mind.
Like, no, I, I, I never wantedthis, like, this isn't what I

(07:06):
had pictured.
But I was also a scared firsttime mom.
And so I said yes and I didn't Iwasn't fully prepared with like,
okay, well what are thequestions that I should ask?
Or like, what happens if we waita little bit longer?
But in the moment you're like,well, I have to keep my baby
alive, so I have to say yes toPitocin.

Exie (07:25):
Right.

That's one thing I would do differently if I
could go back and tell thatfirst time mom that I was, so we
started,

Exie (07:33):
you

I would say maybe hold off on the Pitocin a little
bit.

Exie (07:36):
Okay.

Yeah.

Exie (07:37):
Thank you for clarifying that.
'cause I

Yes.

Exie (07:39):
if you

Sorry.

Exie (07:40):
would advocate differently for yourself or you would flat
out decline it.
And if anybody who's listened tothe the previous iteration of
this podcast, Doula2Doula, mypodcast co-host Ciana, she had
them turn the Pitocin off andleft the hospital.
And so I didn't know if that's,

I love her already.

Exie (08:00):
Yeah.

I love her already.

Exie (08:02):
to go back and listen to her her birth story.
It's quite interesting.
I'll, I'll put the episodenumber into this podcast.

Oh, that's, that is so wonderful.
Yeah.
So like, I I agreed to it,right?
Like you're, you're in thatmoment and you're like, I wanna
make sure my baby's safe.
I've worked so hard.
It took us so long to getpregnant.
We literally had an IVF consultand had plans to start IVF'cause
we've been trying, trying to getpregnant with no luck and got
pregnant that cycle that we,right before we started, I, so

(08:31):
you, you know, this long journeyto get there.
You know, this.
I can't lose him now, so I haveto say yes to person.
That was where I was.
So the nurse comes in and youknow, starts an IV line and I
said, well, when will I be ableto take this off?
And, you know, like, movearound.
And she said, well, you won't,you'll, you'll have this until

(08:53):
the baby's born.
And I started crying and I said,I'm gonna be hooked up to all
these wires and lines.
And like, what about thisbeautiful tub birth that I
wanted?
And that nurse said to me,everybody comes in here with all
these dreams of what they wantand you, you just, it's just not
realistic.
You're not gonna get what youwant.

(09:15):
And I just cried.
I like, it was, it was like, Iwas so close and then it just
like got, like the carpet gotripped over from under me, you
know?
And she left the room.
And I remember telling Dave, mypartner, I can't have this
nurse, my body's not gonna workwith her.
Like, I don't trust her likethat.

(09:36):
This isn't gonna work.
Can you please advocate for meto get a different nurse?
And you know, that wasn'thappening.
And so I told my mom, like, getme a different nurse.
I gotta have a different nurse.
She doesn't understand what Iwant.
She's not gonna work with me.
I need a different nurse.

Exie (09:50):
that's great that you, that you said that.

but neither of them did it.
So I did it myself.
And actually that was the betterthing, right?
So when the midwife came in theroom, I was like, you know, I
think I'm having a little bit oftrouble with this nurse.
I don't, I'm worried about mybody responding when, you know,
it feels like she's not on boardwith my birth plan that I want.
Like, would, would it be okay ifwe try somebody else and I got

(10:18):
to advocate for myself?
And there's power in being theperson that advocates rather
than sending someone else to godo the errand that's dirty work,
right?
So I.
Yeah, I, I asked her and we wereable to get a different nurse
and this second nurse that, thatactually ended up being there

(10:38):
through the birth.
She had been a doula for 10years in California, and she
treated me a little bitdifferently and she understood
like what I wanted and what Iwas trying to achieve, and she
was there to support that.
And so, you know, I'm, I'mhooked up to the Pitocin still.
We kept it at a very, very lowlevel.
I think the highest level thatit got to was like a six out of,

(10:59):
I don't know, I think it's, whatis it, 30 or something.
So,

Exie (11:01):
think it's 20 or 25 is the maximum.

yeah, so six is pretty low on that scale.

Exie (11:08):
it

And you know, that was the max.
We started that out very low,and then contractions got going
and I got into the tub and gotto labor in the tub.
I.
And like the contractions werepretty powerful.
And knowing what I know now ofexperiencing contractions on
Pitocin and without like,

Exie (11:25):
Yeah.

holy cow, it's like, it's like water and
Mountain Dew or something, youknow, there's this, it's so much
more like powerful and it's justnot enjoyable to have
contractions on Pitocin.
I definitely wanted to avoid youknow, an epidural and wanted to
have freedom of movement and youknow, low intervention.

(11:49):
But I was like, wow, I can seewhy, I can see why people ask
for it, you know?
And the, the very best painrelief that I found, obviously
the water was amazing.

Exie (12:01):
Yep.

but my partner started telling me stories.
He just made up stories on thespot and he.
And, and it was a, a skill thatwe learned in, in the birth
class of like, you know,distracting your brain and
giving your brain something tofocus on and visualize.
And it was something that I hadpracticed whenever, whenever I
got a blood draw and I, I got amillion blood draws with with,

(12:23):
with everything and, andinvolved.
But I would like, take myself toa really calm place, like to a
forest and I could smell likethe pine needles and listen to
the breeze.
Like he was practicingvisualization, like all through
this pregnancy.
And I didn't know he had thatskillset in him to like, just
take me on this cool journeysomewhere.
So he talked about like a housethat we would build and he

(12:46):
talked about vacations that wewould take with our baby.
And he talked about you know,our dog and our baby and the
relationship that they woulddevelop.
And it was just so cool the waythat it just got me through
really intense contractions onPitocin.
So it got pretty pretty intense.
And at one point I heard themidwife say to somebody else in

(13:09):
the room, I'm assuming thenurse, well, she's not even in
active labor yet because she'sstill talking.
'cause every time I would have acontraction, I'd be like, okay,
Dave, tell me another story.
And I heard her say that'causelike words like, yeah, I might
look like I'm, you know, likenot paying attention'cause my
eyes are closed and I'm reallyfocusing.
But words are still like feedinginto the brain.

(13:30):
I'm still understanding what'sgoing on.
And I looked at David and said,I can't do this for 12 more
hours.
Like I'm not even in activelabor yet.
And it was so dishearteningbecause what I was feeling in my
body was really intense and itfelt like birth could be close
like this, this baby's gonnacome out soon.

(13:52):
But hearing that just took me.
Down and I was like, oh, I, Ican't do this for 12 more hours.
Well now I know I was intransition when those words were
said.
I was in transition.

Exie (14:06):
Oh my

Yeah.
So yeah, I was definitely anactive labor.
But I didn't know that then.
'cause I didn't know what laborfelt like.
I didn't know.
And so I said, well I would liketo try nitrous to, you know,
like just to help me keep goingand like keep this that was
working and need a little bit ofpain relief.
And so the nurse, the midwifesaid, oh, well I have to go

(14:29):
check on the policy.
And

Exie (14:31):
Yeah,

okay,

Exie (14:33):
they were still not sure about the aerosolization
involved

yes,

Exie (14:39):
Yeah, it was

yes, Yes.

Exie (14:41):
It

It was, it was a weird time.
And so eventually she came backand she's like, well, you can do
nitrous, but you can't be in thetop.

Exie (14:51):
Oh,

And so that moment was just like I was
shattered.
'cause I was like, okay, here Iam.
I'm not even an active labor.
Yes, I was.

Exie (15:00):
Okay.

even an active labor.
I don't think I can sit here anddo what I'm doing right now for
12 more hours.
I don't know why I'm 12 hoursstuck in my brain, but I was
like, oh, well it's gonna be 12hours before I've given birth to
this baby if I'm not in activelabor yet.
So I was like, I don't, I justdon't think I can do it.
And so I had to like, at thatmoment, kinda give up this
beautiful dream of this peacefultub birth with no interventions

(15:25):
and get out of the tub and getonto the bed and sign consent
forms for nitrous.

Exie (15:32):
Yeah.
And they still had you hooked upto Pitocin at this point?

Right around there it's fuzzy.
'cause I, again, I was intransition.

Exie (15:38):
Sure.

I think it was right around when I, it was
before I got outta the tub.
It was before I got the tub.
I said, I'd like to turn thatPitocin off.
My body is doing this.
So we turned it off.
I mean, I still had a little,like, poured in my arm or
whatever, but I wasn't receivingPitocin actively.
And so I got into the bed,signed the consent forms.
Why would you ever have somebodylike in transition signing

(16:03):
consent forms?
Like, blows my mind.
But I did.
And they, you know, brought itand it was really good relief
and I could just take it as Ineeded it.
Like I could, you know, likefocus through a contraction.
And like, okay, well let's checkyou.
And I was, I was at a nine or a10.
Like, I done the hard work.

(16:24):
I just wasn't in the place thatI wanted to be.
I was on the bed and not in thetub.
And so I kind of took a momentand I almost like, almost took a
nap.
I would say.
I took a nap except for I wasn'treally asleep.
I was just kind of like zonedand like focusing and, you know,
like.
Getting finally there.

(16:44):
And then my body took over andgave me the urge to push and I
pushed out this beautiful babyboy.
I gave birth on my side and hadquite a bit of tearing.
I had a second degree tear.
And so you know, got stitched upwith like, with the kelp of the
nitrous and like this beautifullittle boy on my chest.

(17:05):
And I remember thinking like,you know, this is the best night
of my life.

Exie (17:10):
Yeah,

Because the every like, the, the emotions of the
like, wow, we're finally here.
We did this.
He's here, he is real, he ishealthy.

Exie (17:19):
yeah

and it wasn't until like after like a few days
after like when you're really inthat hormone surge and you start
thinking about it, that it,like, it just felt really, you
know, disappointing.
'cause I was almost there.
I almost got exactly the birththat I wanted.
But I was still very thankful.
For this healthy baby and for,you know, I didn't go to the top

(17:42):
end of the complications and theinterventions, but definitely
more than I wanted.
So that kind of sets up thestory for the birth that I just
experienced in November.

Exie (17:53):
Mm-hmm.

And you know, through my prenatal care, like
this was still my goal.
Like I wanna have a birth in thetub and,

Exie (18:00):
Right, right.

that's what I want.
That's what I wanted the firsttime.
And the complication this timearound, I had gestational
gestational diabetes again, butit started much earlier at like
10 weeks.
And I wasn't diabetic beforegoing in, like between
pregnancies.
Blood sugar was perfect.
Get pregnant.
My body likes to be a didiabetic when I'm pregnant.
So 10 weeks is when I had to, tostart managing gestational

(18:24):
diabetes.
And it was also a lot moreintense this time around.
So I,

Exie (18:30):
diabetes was more intense.

diabetes was, yeah.
So it was it was harder tomanage.
So a meal that I could eat in myfirst pregnancy would spike me
too high in my second pregnancy.
I was just more sensitive.
And so I knew this early on andI, I had been toying with the
idea of a home birth because Ithink home birth is so cool,

(18:52):
but, you know, with all the fearthat's, that's out there and
being like advanced age andgestational diabetes and, oh,
the other part that I, I'msorry.
I didn't realize, I, I didn'tput into the, the first birth
was I lost a lot of blood.
I lost about 700 milliliters ofblood.

Exie (19:08):
Oh,

So, yeah.
So like, just under like a,

Exie (19:14):
did they have

what's that?

Exie (19:15):
treatment for you with that?
Good.

No, but it was, it was a concerning amount and
it took me a long time toreplenish that.

Exie (19:24):
Mm-hmm.

I did pass like really big blood clots, like a
coup like the day after, acouple days after.
So there was also that there wastoo many elements

Exie (19:33):
Yeah.

to make my partner feel comfortable with us
doing this at home.

Exie (19:38):
Sure.

probably would've like gone for that, but we
decided on hospital birthbecause the blood loss, the
gestational diabetes, all thefactors

Exie (19:50):
example of weighing out, taking a risk benefit analysis
of your unique circumstances.
So, you know, that's a, that's abeautiful example of doing that.

and it's hard.
You, you both have to be on thesame page,

Exie (20:04):
Yes, this is

you know,

Exie (20:05):
is very true.

you know, and he's sitting there thinking
like, I saw you lose a lot ofblood and I don't wanna be a
single dad without you.
And I'm sitting there thinkingeverything's gonna be fine.
It's gonna be better this time.
You know?

Exie (20:16):
Yeah

it.

Exie (20:17):
happens quite a bit because partners oftentimes,
even, even one as amazing asyours was they oftentimes don't
take in the same informationbecause they're not reading all
the books and watching all thevideos.
And, you know, they're, they'relimited in the amount that they
are exposed to either by choiceor just by circumstance.

(20:38):
And so a lot of times when thosethings happen, they have no clue
why it's happening or how severeit is, or how much they need to
worry.
So yeah.
It sounds, sounds like he had atotally normal reaction.

Yeah.
And I also think that, you know,when you're pregnant and you're
so excited, like you just getamped up, like hearing about
birth, right?
Like I loved, I listened to theaudio book of Ina May Gaskin's
Guide to Childbirth, and justall the birth stories in there
are just so exciting to hear.
And that's part of why I wantedto share mine because like, you

(21:12):
need to hear the really goodones.

Exie (21:14):
Yes.

ones all the time because that happens to your
coworker and your sister, andyour sister-in-law, and your
friend and your neighbor.
Like those ones happen all thetime.
Everybody has a traumatic birthstory, but like, you wanna hear
the ones that went really welltoo.

Exie (21:27):
Exactly.
Exactly.

Yeah, yeah.
So anyway, we decided on, youknow, hospital birth and the,
the challenge of the blood sugarwas the, the care at U of M is
you either choose OB care

Exie (21:43):
Mm-hmm.

and that's like a, a little bit more medical

Exie (21:46):
Uhhuh.

type of birth, or you choose the midwife care and
there's more flexibility andthere's, it's just a different
model of care.
And I really wanted the midwifemodel of care.
Another difference between thetwo is you can give birth in the
tub with the midwives, youcannot, you can labor in the tub
with the obs, but you can't givebirth in the tub with the obs.
And like with this beautifulvision of this tub birth, I'm

(22:10):
like, I've just gotta do this.

Exie (22:11):
Yeah.

However, if you need insulin to manage
gestational diabetes, it risksyou out of midwifery care at U
of M.
And so I had 30 weeks that I hadto do this with diet and
exercise and everything else,like everything I could do to
perfectly manage my blood sugar,

Exie (22:31):
yeah.

if I needed insulin, it would, again, it
would be that almost birth, andit would like just rip out like
at the last second, this birththat I really wanted.
So,

Exie (22:41):
Yeah.

It was hard managing for 30 weeks and four
days or 30 ish weeks.

Exie (22:48):
Mom of a toddler right now, and so I remember when I
had a toddler and I waspregnant, and it was like just
whatever he left behind was whatI was snacking on.

yes,

Exie (23:00):
meal.
So I can't even imagine havingto intentionally make sure that
you're eating the right times,but also the right combination
of foods,

Yeah.
And add on top of that I'm abusiness owner.
This birth, I first birth, I wasworking this corporate job and
you just like, you know, take abreak when you need it and you
take vacation and maternityleave, all that.
This time I'm a business owner.
And then also, like I'm, I'mstill breastfeeding my first
child through all this, so hebreastfed through the entire
pregnancy and tandem fed aswell.

(23:32):
So yeah, needless to say,managing blood sugar was really
hard.
But I, I think that there's alsowhen you have that big of when
the stakes are that high, likethe motivation comes,

Exie (23:46):
Yeah.

and when I picture this as like if I put
this item in my mouth, like thatcould lead to.
Insulin, which leads to ob,which leads to, you know,
whatever, giving birth on myback the way I don't want to or
something, you know.
So it, it was a good motivatorfor me to frame it that way
because that helped me make thechoices I needed to make for a

(24:09):
very long time,

Exie (24:10):
Yeah.

Throughout that.
But anyway, I was able to, tomanage it with the help of I I
had a wonderful diabeteseducator kind of caseworker that
was through the U of Mendocrinology department.
I also worked with a localdietician who specializes in
women and perinatal.
And yeah, that was, it was veryhelpful to have a lot of support

(24:32):
for everything that we could doagainst the diabetes.
Anyway, so leading up to thebirth, like numbers were good,
numbers were good.
But then we're, you know,getting toward 40 weeks due date
came and went.
My midwife was amazing and veryhands off.
She offered a membrane sweep ifI wanted it, so I had two

(24:55):
membrane sweeps.
And she had a really good senseof what the, the, the things
that really matter or make adifference in your care or the
matter in the outcomes.
And she said that the the NSTs,like I could do them if I wanted
to.
I could go in and get the countsand do all the data, but it, it

(25:17):
didn't lead to any betteroutcomes than just managing and
doing kick counts at home.
And I was like, really?
Like, why didn't I know thisbefore?
Like, why didn't somebody tellme this last time around?
I could have avoided lots of,you know, like the stress that
comes along with like, oh, is hebreathing, like doing the
practice breath?
What is his heart rate?

(25:39):
Is he picking up what's a fluidlevel?
Like there's so many data pointsthat, you know that go into all
of that.
It puts a lot of stress on themom, which

Exie (25:50):
It really does.
Yeah.

it, it isn't necessarily helpful.
So I was, I was so glad that shesaid that data proves that
outcomes

Exie (25:57):
Mm-hmm.

are just as good by doing kid counts at home.
So that's what I did.
She's very hands off.
We did a couple of membranesweeps and then it got down to
the point of you know, like, allright, it it, it needs to happen
this week.
Like, do we need to put aninduction appointment on the
calendar?
I.
And I was really, really worriedabout getting the same midwife

(26:19):
that I'd had the first time inthe hospital.
The one that had said, the onethat had said the, the, for the
first delivery that, that saidshe's not even in active labor
yet.
She's still talking.
I was like, I, I don't think Ican have her again.

Exie (26:33):
no, yeah, absolutely.
I totally get that.

Yep.
So I'm like, what happens if shehappens to be on staff the day
that I spontaneously come intolabor?
But it didn't, you know,spontaneous labor wasn't
happening and we're just kind oflike waiting around.
And my midwife for my secondbirth, her name is Sam Sharp.
She is phenomenal.

Exie (26:53):
Did

she.

Exie (26:54):
a conversation with her about what might happen if that
other midwife was

Well, the conversation, pregnancy hormones
and emotions.
Right?
But the conversation went likethis.
If she's there, I'm gonna leaveand have a baby in the car,
which is not true.
I would not have had a baby inthe car, but that's how I felt,
right?
And she was like,

Exie (27:21):
They got your point through.

yes, yes, yes.
So I, it, it came down to like,I really trusted Sam and I was
like, oh, Sam has gotta be therefor the delivery of this baby.
And like, we were looking at theschedule that week and I'm like
weighing, you know, am I gonnago into spontaneous labor?
I don't know when my body goesinto spontaneous labor, because
I didn't get to do that thefirst time around.

Exie (27:42):
Right.

And I was, you know, doing all the things like
we were doing, like lots ofwalking, I had been
incorporating dates and redraspberry leaf tea and like, all
the things you're supposed to doright?
And still wasn't happening.
So we looked at the calendar andSam was gonna be on on the
schedule from 7:00 AM to 7:00 PMon Wednesday the 20th.

(28:07):
And I had my appointment withher the day before on the 19th.
And she was like, do you wantto, do you wanna wait?
Do you wanna schedule something?
Like, what, what feels right?
They're going to want toschedule you by 41 weeks, which
would've been Saturday.
And so I'm like sitting thereagain weighing do I, you know,

(28:28):
roll the dice and wait and hopeand then get induced by a
midwife that I don't know andtrust or do I.
Again, schedule an induction andmaybe roll the dice and give up
the birth that I want, like Iended up doing last time and be
hooked up.
And, you know, like it's just,it was a bad, it felt like a
lose lose, but at least I'd havesomebody in my corner that I'd

(28:52):
spent this whole pregnancy withand who I trust it and would be
very minimal in interventions.
We talked about, about the waythat we would induce and I said,
I don't want Pitocin this time.
And she said that she wouldrecommend, you know, breaking my
water based on where I was andwhat she, she did the cervical
check and the membrane sweep.

(29:12):
She's like, you know, I thinkthat this is your second baby.
If you break your water, I thinkyour body is just gonna kick in
and do what it knows how to doand have this baby and you're
not gonna need any Pitocin.
And I'm like.
All right.
I mean, I trust you.
Like let, that's like, let'shave this baby together.
Right?
So I saw her Tuesday the 19th atlike 10:00 AM or whatever, and

(29:37):
settled it.
We have an induction appointmentfor 8:00 AM on the 20th of
November.
And I went home and I like,talked to my mom and my partner
about it and I was like, Ireally wanted to go into
spontaneous labor, but at leastI get to have this really cool
midwife

Exie (29:53):
Mm-hmm.

you know, it is what it is.
We're gonna have a healthy baby.
And so we spent that night kindof like getting ready and
enjoying our last night as afamily of three.
And I remember I, I took a bathwith my son in our big like
jetted tub and we're just likesitting there playing together.
I'm like, this is his last nightas an only child.
And he nursed in the tub and itwas just like all of the

(30:18):
feelings, you know, that.
Remembering his birth and like

Exie (30:22):
Mm-hmm.

it was the best day of my life, but also then,
you know, felt a little bit notwhat I wanted and I didn't feel
like I was in control and Ididn't feel powerful.
And I wish it could have beendifferent.
And so it was just a feeling,all those feelings.
And we went to bed at 10 30 andI gotta set the alarm, gotta be
up in to the hospital at 8:00 AMAnd three hours later I woke up

(30:49):
and I was like, huh, was that acontraction?
I was like, ah, it probablywasn't like, it was probably
just Braxton Hicks or, you know,you talk yourself out of it.

Exie (30:59):
Right.

like, it was laying in bed and I was like,
huh.
Yeah, I think that's, that's acontraction.
And then I, I, it just slowlykind of, I.
Build up.
And I'm like, you know, I, Ifeel like I need to just get up
and do something.
So my, my little 3-year-oldsleeping next to me in bed and
my partner's on the other side,I just like got up and went

(31:21):
downstairs and it was kind of acool time to just be by myself.
And I was like bouncing on thebirth ball and walking around
and putting the last littlethings in our bag.
And somewhere in there I put inmy AirPods and I started
listening to like reallyrelaxing music and showing my
age.
But man, like Enya, like I loveEnya,

Exie (31:46):
Absolutely.

so I put like Pandora Enya and, and I was
like, every time I would, youknow, have a contraction, I'd
just like focus on the music andjust like, relax through it.
And it was like, no big deal.
I was like, huh.
I was like that.
You know, it'll probably bewhile, but at least at the very
beginning of labor, right.
And so maybe an hour of that.

(32:09):
Yeah, probably an hour of that.
And I was like, you know what?
I wonder if I should starttiming these.
Like, I guess at some point youstart timing.
Is this something that we like,need to go in for?
And so I started timing them andthey're like, they were very
regular.
They were like a minute long,think about five, four or five
minutes apart.

(32:30):
And I was like, but it doesn'tfeel that bad yet because in my
brain all that I had experiencedwas Pitocin contractions.

Exie (32:39):
Right.

And when I experienced these very real
contractions, I just was like,get bad at some point.
Right?
So.
And so I kept timing them.
Kept like, I, I ate, I ate likeI, I need to get some good
snacks in me.
Like I had cashews and I don'tremember what else I ate, but I

(33:01):
was like protein focused andlike, gotta get ready for this
marathon that we're doingtogether.

Exie (33:06):
Right.

And I, at some point I realized like they're,
they're like, you know, threeminutes apart, I think, I think
a better Wake Dave up and it was3:00 AM and so I've been like an
hour and a half of contractionsthat went from like, is that a
contraction to like, I'm, I'mdefinitely timing these and like
focusing on the music and Yeah,I think we better go.

(33:29):
And I woke him up and I said,we've gotta go to the hospital.
He's like, why?
'cause he is thinking, you know,our appointment's at eight, like
it's three.

Exie (33:38):
Right.

I'm in labor.
And so we, he got up and westarted getting ready.
The plan, the plan, you know,you have a plan.
The plan was that my mom wouldtake my three-year-old to my
aunt's house and then we'd allconverge at the hospital at
eight and have this birthtogether.

(34:01):
But what really happened was atthree, Dave and I left for the
hospital and she let him sleepthinking okay, and when he wakes
up, we'll drop him off and thenI'll go to the hospital and be
there for the birth.
So I we got to the hospital atfour, driving in.
I live in Canton on the verywest side.
So driving down Gettys Road,which has lots of trees and

(34:22):
fields like, I think we saw 20deer on the way to the hospital.

Exie (34:27):
And that's a, that's a ha for people who are listening who
are not in Michigan, that can bea hazardous drive.

Yes.
Yeah.
So if you hit a deer, you're,you're stopped and you're like,
your, your car is erected.
It's, you know, this giantanimal that, you know, does a
lot of damage and they can justjump out.
So you might be driving,

Exie (34:48):
both ways,

they're not looking both ways and, and it's
something you don't really haveto worry about in the daytime,
but in the dusk and in the nighthours and in the early morning,
they can jump out and you gottastop really fast or you're gonna
just hit the deer.
So we're driving in and see like20 different deer along this
route.
And this road is bumpy also inMichigan, we have a lot of
potholes and bumps, and I'mlike, Dave, don't hit any bumps.

(35:12):
And he is like, we're inMichigan.
You're, I am sorry, but we'regonna hit.
But what I'm looking back at, Iwas like, wow.
I, labor was really progressingand by the time that we got to
the hospital and went to triagethey checked me and I was a
five.
So they're like, yeah, you'rehaving this baby today.
Like we're, I was like, oh, we,we we're good to stay.

(35:35):
And so I told them that, youknow, the birth that I wanted
and that I really wanted to bein the tub.
Is there a tub room available?
Because you don't always know ifthere's one available.
So they got one ready for mewhile I was in triage.
And I don't know how long thewalk is from triage to that
room,

Exie (35:51):
Yeah.

it felt like two miles because every contraction
I had to like, you know, juststop and like listen to my music
and focus.
And it was just a minute long.
That's all just focus.
And then boop, I'd be like,okay, I'll, I'll talk again and
we can walk and like make ourway there and contraction and
I'd.
And stop and focus.
So I'm like doing this all theway to the tub room.

Exie (36:13):
Mm-hmm.

filled the tub and then just kind of left us on
our own, which is really nice.
And I'm thinking, oh, it'sprobably a few hours before I
need to get in the tub becausethese contractions aren't not
bad.
Like, it's not what Iexperienced last time.
I know what a contraction rightbefore birth feels like.
Right.
Contractions.
And so we got set up with somelavender.

(36:36):
They, they put a fan withlavender essential oil and like
aromatherapy and got the musicon the speaker.
So I was again, listening toEnya and Yanni and like just
really beautiful calming musicthat I love.
And I was like, you know, it'sgonna be a while, but I might as
well get in the tub because itlooks so good.

(36:57):
Like that looks, that waterlooks really nice.
And I got in.
I was like, huh.
Oh, this, these are justfocusing just a minute at a
time.
It, it wasn't like the Pitocincontractions that were just on
top.
It was like this rolling, likepermanent contraction, like with
barely any break.
And this non Pitocin contractionwe're just like, okay, I just

(37:18):
need to focus for a minute andthen I can talk.
Obviously they get more intenseand you know, I was, I was like,
Dave, you might need to tell mesome stories.
But the, the nurse and themidwife just kind of like left
us alone.
We were, we were in there and Iwas like, I feel like I need to
poop.
I'm like, Dave, like.
What am I gonna do?

(37:39):
And am I gonna poop in this tub?
Am I gonna have this baby on thetoilet?
Like, what?
What's gonna happen?
And so I got out and I was like,I'm gonna, I'm gonna try to poop
and then get back in the tub.
And I sat down on the toilet.
I was like, Nope, I, this baby'sgonna come.
I gotta get back in that tubright now.

Exie (37:53):
Huh.

I got back in and like, nobody's there.
Dave's there, but there's nomidwife, there's no nurse.

Exie (38:00):
call the nurses button

like,

Exie (38:01):
anything.

I think you need to call the nurse.
So neither of us in this statethought about there being the
call button in the bathroom withthe tub.

Exie (38:11):
yeah.

He went out to the room to find, to find the
phone and call somebody.
And meanwhile, I'm like, oh mygoodness, this baby's gonna
come.
And now I'm really by myself.
I'm like, Nope, nope, nope.
Because there's a little bit ofpanic like, what, what?
Why isn't anybody here?
And I'm like saying, help, help.
And I opened my eyes and therewere about 10 people in the room

(38:33):
because if you hear somebodyyelling help.
And then I think he also calledhit the call button.
Like, they're like, oh, we gotwhat you don't know what you're
walking into.
And I opened my eyes and said,not that much help.
I didn't realize like fivealarms.
So there was so many people inthe room like, okay, so it was
just my nurse and my midwifeagain.
And they just kind of stayed onopposite sides of the room and

(38:58):
said really encouraging thingsto me and it's so amazing the
power of words.
From my first birth to thesecond birth and the different
outcomes that those had.

Exie (39:09):
Mm-hmm.

by telling me they, they didn't tell me
directly, but by saying it tosomebody else and me
overhearing, she's not even inactive labor yet, she's still
talking.
And the effect that that had onthat birth versus the second
birth where the midwife said,you know, you're safe,

Exie (39:26):
Mm-hmm.

you're doing a great job.
Like the, it was justencouraging things.

Exie (39:31):
Yes.

And the nurse would say, you know, just relax,
you know, and like, you can swayyour hips.
But neither of them had anyhands on and it, like, they
didn't, you know it wasn't likebirth was being done to me like
I was doing it.
It was a very, a huge shift.
And, you know, like the, the.

(39:52):
Contractions at the very end area lot more powerful, but they
were nothing, nothing comparedto the the Pitocin contractions.

Exie (40:00):
Yeah.

and so like I felt my body start pushing.
And it was interesting.
I had listened to a birthpodcast like in the week before
about like positioning and allof that, and your body will just
kind of figure out what positionit wants to be in.
And at certain stages of laborit wants to be standing.
And that's when I was at home.
I would just like kinda leanagainst my countertop.

(40:23):
And when I was walking down thehall to my room, I was just
leaning against the wall.
But when I was in that tub, Iwas like, no, I need to be
squatting.
I was just like, everybody knowswhat position to be in and I
could feel my body pushing.
And like I reached down and I'llnever forget what it felt like
to feel my baby's head finallycoming out like it was.

(40:48):
So cool.
And I remember like thinking,wow, it kind of feels like
jelly, but like that's my baby'shead.
Like, this is what, I didn't getthat with my first, I didn't
ever really get to like, feeland be part of the process.
In my first, it was just likelaying down on my side and
somebody else's kind of watchingand taking over.
But in the tub I'm like reachingdown.

(41:08):
I'm like, and even now, everysingle time I'm like holding my
baby in it.
Like if I happen to put my handon, like on her bald little
head, it takes me back to thatmoment in time and like feeling
it for the first time.
It was so cool and it was, Idon't know, like maybe two or

(41:30):
three pushes.
I something I, I don't know, youjust kind of like go into that
labor land space, and.
She was out and I caught her,myself in the tub.
Everybody, it was wa, Dave andthe nurse and the midwife were
watching, but they were handsoff

Exie (41:47):
yeah,

caught this baby and I looked at her and I just
thought we did this like her andme and nobody else.
It was just the two of ustogether

Exie (42:00):
Oh,

like the power that I felt in that moment.
I have never felt more empoweredin my life.
And I, you know, as a woman thathas done a lot of really cool
and important and powerfulthings.
Like the most, most powerfulthing was delivering and
catching that baby and likelooking at her and realizing

(42:22):
that we didn't need, you know wedidn't need the intervention of
anybody else.
Like it was there for, we neededit, but like we actually got to
do it together ourselves.
And she looked at me like, I'll,it was just, I just didn't wanna
get out of the tub.
And eventually they were like,she's gonna get cold.
You need to get out.
She said it way nicer than that.

(42:43):
But, you know, like it justbeing in that moment I wasn't
just experiencing that birth,

Exie (42:48):
Mm-hmm.

I was experiencing, like, healing from
the first birth and like thedecisions that got taken away
from me and the, the things thatwere said that like, made me
just feel really down, like allthat kind of just got cleaned up
and healed and like, I justdidn't realize that birth could
be so healing when, when it'sempowering that way.

(43:13):
So I'm so thankful that we hadsuch a different experience the
second time around andphysically it was so much easier
on me for recovery.
And you think of like, oh, it'sjust one, one day.
Like, you know?
Yeah.
If you, if you have Pitocin,it's just rough that day, but
the type of birth that you havewhen you experience those

(43:35):
interventions, you know, I hadthe secondary tearing and I had
a lot of pelvic floor physicaltherapy to do, and recovery
took, you know, months and withthe second birth, like there
was, there was no blood in thetub.
Like when they checked me, theysaid, there's no skid marks.
There's not even a scratch or,or not, there's nothing like,

(43:57):
she just, you know, when you doit yourself and like, if your
baby's kind of optimallypositioned, thank you to Dr.
Rubina at the joint for WebsterChiropractic, like, she just
helped me out that way.
Perfectly positioned, slid outeasily.
Like the recovery is waydifferent.
You know, like when you, whenyou.

(44:20):
Keep all the blood that you'resupposed to and don't lose like
700 milliliters.

Exie (44:24):
Mm-hmm.

it's a lot easier to bounce back with your energy
and you know, I think thatthere's like a lot of anxiety
and depression and likedifficult things that you
experience when you go through abirth that has a little bit too
much intervention.
So having all of that removedthe second time around, like, I
was like, I wish I could givebirth a million times if it was

(44:48):
just like this.
I'm 41.
That's not happening.
But I just love how empoweringit felt.

Exie (44:56):
Yeah.

it was a goal that I'd had for literally
years, ever since I saw thatvideo in Cynthia's class.

Exie (45:05):
Yeah.

And we did it and we accomplished it.
And you know it's a moment Iwill never forget.

Exie (45:12):
What a beautiful story.
Oh my goodness.
I, I have so many things runningin my mind right now.

Share, do share.

Exie (45:22):
First off so I have another podcast episode that
Ciana and I did.
called Partners are the MVPs ofthe birth room.

Oh,

Exie (45:31):
And you're, it sounds like your partner, Dave, totally fit
that bill.

yes.

Exie (45:36):
the reason why we say that, because even as a doula
with all of the education andexperience and, you know, having
attended a whole over a hundredbirths a hundred over 135 now
for me we still are not the oneswho know the birthing person
best.
You know, I would never think tomake up stories to tell.
I have done visualization with aclient before, but I would never

(46:00):
think to make this long,beautiful story and the
connections, the emotionalconnection.
And that's the thing is birthpartners have usually such a
strong emotional connection.
And you mentioned, you know,Pitocin, that's the other thing
that's flying through my mind.
You know, research, I wanna saythat it was Dr.

(46:21):
Sarah Wickham that I, I read,I'd have to, I'll have to find.
information and, and drop it inthe show notes.
But basically and if it's nother, it's some other great mind
in the birthing world.
Basically what this researchshowed is that the oxytocin
receptors on your uterus don'treally differentiate between
synthetic pitocin and oxytocin.

(46:42):
Pitocin is just a syntheticversion of what your body
already creates.
The biggest difference comes inthe blood brain barrier, the
Pitocin molecules are too big topass through the blood ba brain
barrier.
And so that means that yourbrain perceives those
contractions differently becauseit's not being, it's not

(47:05):
responding by kicking out morepain relieving hormones.

Wow.
Yeah, I experienced that.
That makes a lot of sense.

Exie (47:15):
Yeah.
And that's what I was thinkingwhen you're telling me that I'm,
I, I was just like, yeah, yourbody was doing everything.
It just, your, your, it's your,your oxytocin receptors were
dragging more Pitocin moleculesthan they were oxytocin
molecules, it sounds like.
And that was just not enough ofyour own po, you know, pain

(47:36):
relieving hormones.
But then also one of my biggestthings, and, and I made this
switch quite a while ago in myapproach.
Of support.
And we've talked about it in thepast on this, well, on the
previous iteration of thispodcast, I'm gonna keep
referring to it because it wassuch a big, I mean, it was four
years of my life,

No.

Exie (47:54):
that we were co-hosting together.
But we talk a a lot abouttrauma-informed care, and that's
something that is kind of likealmost a buzzword right now.
But what you said about hearingsomething, and this is the
thing, and I, I've seen this somany times where either the
person giving birth or theirpartner will overhear something

(48:17):
that the nurse or the providersays, and it may not even have
anything to do with that person.
It might have to do with apatient in a different room, but
automatically you start fillingin the gaps and you, you start
wondering, is this about me?
they don't realize how much youhear.
And like you said, you, you looklike you were.

(48:39):
Inwardly focused, but that stuffstill penetrates and has a huge
impact.
And that's what the researchshows is that the, the
difference between birth peoplewho have or report traumatic
birth experiences as opposed tothose who report positive
experiences, it's not entirelyabout the interventions.

(49:02):
A main component of that is theinterpersonal relationships they
have with their providers.
And

Hmm.

Exie (49:07):
that midwife really let you down by saying that within
earshot of you, whether shereally believed that or not, she
could have said it in anotherplace and protected your space.

Yes.
Yes.
Because that was the, thepivotal moment that changed the
outcome of my birth was likesaying something that then made
me doubt that I could do it.

Exie (49:35):
Right.

And then I just kind of like surrender to the
interventions instead ofsurrendering to this birth that
was occurring, you know, so.

Exie (49:43):
Yeah.
And it's not even always theprovider.
Sometimes it's the familymembers that are in the room.
Like maybe they're talkingamongst themselves.
Maybe they're saying things thatthe birthing person is now
hearing and taking on

Yeah.

Exie (49:59):
So it's, it just, you, you, you said something about
language.
Really remember.
My head is swimming with so much'cause you had so many
incredible things.
but language matters.
Language matters.
And the way that we frame thingsand the way that we say things
around, around a pregnant personthroughout their pregnancy, but
especially in that extrainherently vulnerable time of

(50:22):
the birth space,

Mm-hmm.

Exie (50:24):
words that we feel might be innocuous, can be profoundly
impactful

Mm-hmm.

Exie (50:31):
giving birth.
And like you said, it translatesinto their postpartum recovery
and then their family.

Right.
And, and conversely justsomething as simple as saying
you're safe,

Exie (50:44):
Mm-hmm.

like.
Like I could feel myself relaxwhen I heard those words.
And you know, like that justmight be just something that
comes out of her mouth and it'sno big deal and it's just an
everyday thing.
'cause she's delivering babiesevery day.
But like that, you know, theimpact of really helpful words
is strong too.

Exie (51:02):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So I feel like your, both ofyour stories, when we first
started, you know, initially, Ilove the organic feel of these
conversations because initiallywe were talking, we were gonna
just focus on your daughter'sbirth.

Yeah.

Exie (51:20):
you can, like you said, you, your daughter's birth was
linked to her older sibling'sbirth, her older brother's birth
because you.
Were impacted on such a deeplevel

Mm-hmm.

Exie (51:38):
this, this is the other thing textbook wise, if we just
were to look at your son's birthfrom an objective point of view,
was a textbook, totally perfect

Yep.

Exie (51:51):
ab, probably ideal induction,

Yep.
It was

Exie (51:55):
but from your perspective, it was mom, healthy baby, but
not a positive experience,

right.

Exie (52:05):
positive as it could have been.

Yeah.
Yep.
Absolutely.
And I, and I hate feeling likeI'm complaining about that birth
because I see it in the contextof there are so many worse, but
like, it still matters and itstill, you know, does have an
element of trauma,

Exie (52:25):
Mm-hmm.

even if it's not at the scale that some people
experience.
Right.
But when I've, when I'veexperienced both of those, like
I can truly appreciate thesecond.

Exie (52:35):
Mm-hmm.

After having the first experience because it was
so wildly different.

Exie (52:40):
Yeah.
And it just, you know, there's acouple of things even in just
what you said.
First off, many, so we only givebirth an, you know, a small
number of times in our lives.
On average, we are only givingbirth like maybe three times in
our lives.
Most people do not have morethan three kids, and if they do,
they certainly do not go for ahalf dozen or even a dozen.

(53:04):
So it's a finite number ofexperiences that we have giving
birth.
And so each one is important andeach one does matter, and each
one does imprint on us.
If you were to talk to your mom,an older person, older than your
mom.
I bet they could share theirbirth story with you because it,

(53:27):
it just gets in our core, itchanges us as women.
We are also birthed in thatmoment.
so what happens in thatexperience also impacts us.
What was the other thing you hadjust, I almost wanna like hit
the rewind button.
Have you say it again.

(53:47):
You have such amazing sayings.

I dunno what it was.
It's gone.
I'm, I'm four months postpartum,like my brain is Swiss cheese.
Sorry, I don't remember those.

Exie (53:58):
I'm 26 years postpartum and my brain is still Swiss
cheese, but Yeah.
It, you're, you're, oh, I knowwhat it was.
Yeah, and, and it, we, we have areally bad habit I think of just
societally wise kind ofcomparing.

(54:19):
You know, even grief, I, I readrecently I read recently an
article or it was just a, it wasa short article where somebody
was grieving the loss of theirsibling and their boss at work
came up to them and said, youknow, your attitude really sucks
lately.
And this person explained whathad happened.

(54:40):
It had only been a few months.
And the boss said, well, I lostmy grandparents the same time.
And this person was kind oflike, well, I'm sorry that you
lost your grandparents, but Ifeel like a sibling loss is just
a little bit different.
He's like, oh, so are youcomparing grief now?
My grief doesn't mean as much.
have a bad habit of doing thatin our society.

(55:02):
Right.
Of trying to like compare andone up and all of that, and.
When it comes to birth,especially first birth, what I
really try to get everybody tounderstand is we make the best
decisions that we can with theinformation we have at the time.
And sometimes pregnancy throwsus curve balls that come

(55:23):
completely out of left field.
You had a completely healthylifestyle, you never had a blood
sugar problem a day in yourlife, and then all of a sudden
pregnancy brings it on itchanges the trajectory of how
things go.
And so you're almost playingcatch up.
Like, now I have to learn all ofthis and how it's gonna change
things and what are the benefitsand risks of all of these other

(55:44):
things that might happen.
And it's a lot.

true.
It's true.
Yeah.
I feel like there's a lot tolearn anyways when you're
pregnant.
Like it, you know, down to like,what can I eat and not eat?
And, you know, what should behappening now.
But the added layer of anycomplications health wise, like
gestational diabetes or I knowthat some people deal with like
blood pressure.

(56:07):
Thankfully my blood pressure isalways perfect.
But,

Exie (56:10):
Yeah.

that just adds another element of a lot, a big
learning curve in a very shortamount of time.

Exie (56:16):
Right, right.
Yeah, absolutely.
One question I had when you,when you were talking about
reaching down and touching yourdaughter's head, and it felt
like jelly was her bag intact orhad her water broke sometime
before that.

So they had asked me, did you ever feel like a
ping, like your water broke?
And I'd never felt that.
So I think the bag was intactand it burst like when her head
was coming out.
Yeah, it was cool.
Yeah.

Exie (56:41):
that is.
So, and, and the fact that youwere the first person to touch
her also, what, what anabsolutely spectacular memory
for both of you to have.

Yeah.
I, there's nothing like it.
I wish I could have caughtGraham as what my, my son as
well, but like, catching yourown baby is like a very intimate
powerful like unforgettablemoment.

Exie (57:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Amazing.
Amazing.
All right, so I'm gonna throw,throw a question at you,

Yeah.
Go for it.

Exie (57:15):
somebody that you care about, or it doesn't even have
to be someone you care about,someone you remotely know, a
little bit, comes to you andsays, tell me the top three
things I need to know before Ihave my baby.

Cool.
Hmm.
Top three things.
I think you need to know peoplethat you can rely on, and I'm
gonna say that's like pregnancy,birth, postpartum.
And there are, we just don'thave the villages that we used
to.
And you know, if you, if you'regoing in planning on, a natural

(57:50):
birth and you're planning onbreastfeeding and you don't
have, you know, a mom thatexperienced those that can share
those I thankfully did.
But if you don't have that, thatbecomes a barrier because you're
trying to figure it out at themercy of whatever provider
you're dealing with.
And I think that postpartum, youknow, it's easy to just get
outta the hospital and go homeand then you kinda like left to

(58:13):
figure it out.
My mom stayed with us for acouple of weeks, both times, and
the first time around I remembershe would, you know, gently
reposition my baby so that hewasn't like craning his neck
trying to breastfeed.
She was a little late two leagueleader for years and so she was
like, it was like built inbreastfeeding support for the
couple first couple weeks of mymotherhood, which was amazing.

Exie (58:36):
Mm-hmm.

So seek out those people.
If it's not somebody that'srelated to you, it's somebody in
your community, whether that'sa, a, a doula.
We, we have a postpartum doulathis time around that we didn't
do the first time.
Or whether that's like lactationconsultants or a related league.
Like just figure out the peopleand they'll help you figure out
the solutions to the problems.

(58:57):
That'd be one big thing.
Number two would be just toreally trust in your body and
your intuition.
And yes, there's all thisstudies, there's all these data
points, there's all thisinformation overload that you
can take in, but not one ofthose studies are about you and
your body.

(59:18):
And you know, like there's Ifeel like in this country,
especially we, I.
Teach women not to trustthemselves and not to trust
their bodies and to almost teachtheir, like, treat their bodies
like an enemy rather than

Exie (59:32):
Mm-hmm.

like, we're on the, we're on the same team
here.
And trusting that you can do itand following through and the
power that you feel after thatis really, really important.
And number three is to have aclear goal in mind.

(59:52):
You know, unlike what that firstnurse said to me, like,
everybody has used birth plansand dreams and it just doesn't
work out.
I don't, I don't believe thatlike it can, and sometimes
having that goal in mind andlike get an idea, like listen to
some really great birth storiesand watch really great birth
videos and like get it in yourmind that this is what I want

(01:00:13):
and it makes the hard parts alot easier.
So.

Exie (01:00:16):
Yeah.

Kristi Hodson (01:00:16):
You know, this picture in my brain of this tub
birth got me through 30 weeks ofcounting every single carb and
planning out every single mealwith a three-year-old at home.

Exie (01:00:27):
Right.

you know, and I think that it can get you
through a contraction.
Having that end goal in mind orwhatever hardship you have to
face, like if that's the endgoal, you know, the, the first
weeks of breastfeeding that arehard,

Exie (01:00:42):
Mm-hmm.

You have this goal in mind, like that kind of
helps make the harder partshappen still, or, or makes the
harder parts easier, I guess.
Yeah.

Exie (01:00:52):
Yeah.
Beautiful.
I love it.
And the other thing that I alsowant to really commend you on
with your statement about goalsis that you were flexible.
You understood that.
Even though we have plans,sometimes we need to make
adjustments.
And I always try and tell myclients we can control a lot of
things, right?
We can control the environmentto a certain degree, make it all

(01:01:14):
warm and cozy in there.
Potentially we can control, youknow, our partners presence,
whether they're there or not.
You know, we can even controlthe power of the contractions
with things like Pitocin.
The one single thing we cannotcontrol is the passenger,

It's true.

Exie (01:01:32):
and sometimes the passenger goes along so we can
achieve our goal without aproblem.
And sometimes the passenger'slike, Nope, I love your mom, but
that's just not happening.

I think my little passengers that were so
cooperative, both of them.

Exie (01:01:50):
Yeah,

That's very true.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just because you want somethingor you have it in mind, you,
you're, you're exactly right.
Birth does throw you, you know,a curve ball that you can't
always control That little,

Exie (01:02:02):
Yeah.

that little sweet passenger.

Exie (01:02:04):
Yeah.
So just having a little bit ofroom for some flexibility, which
it sounds like you did even,

Yeah,

Exie (01:02:10):
when it came to your second birth, your plan was to
get induced.
So when she decided to go intolabor a few hours ahead of time,
you were like, okay, I, becauseyou could have just dug your
heels and said, it's nothappening.
I'm ignoring everything, and I'mjust gonna wait till my eight
o'clock appointment.

I was so thankful that that didn't happen.
It was just like, it was such ablessing that things got moving
and I didn't have to go down theroad of induction again.
The, the one sad little part andI, I guess I didn't share like
the timeline here, but onelittle sad little part that I

(01:02:47):
would've changed is she came soquickly that my midwife that was
on at 7:00 AM missed the birthby about 20 minutes.

Exie (01:02:57):
Oh,

So the one that I'd like seen for all my
prenatal, the prenatal, theprenatal care, the reason that I
was like, okay, I'm gonna getinduced with Sam.
She was on at 7:00 AM and mybaby was born at like six twenty
one.
And my mom also didn't make itto the hospital'cause my little
boy was sleeping and she waslike, oh, we've got, we've got
plenty of time.
We'll make it to the hospital.
And so she didn't get to bethere for the birth.

(01:03:19):
I wish those two could have beenthere, but,

Exie (01:03:21):
Yeah.

yeah, like I arrived at the hospital at 4:00
AM and had a baby in my arms at6 21.

Exie (01:03:28):
Wow.
Wow.
That's, that is truly, truly aremarkable story.
And so your four monthspostpartum, you

Yes, yes.
Yep.

Exie (01:03:37):
how are things going?

Way better than I expected.
And again, I think it's you seewhere wherever you are
postpartum through the lens,it's hard not to compare but
through the lens of what youexperienced the first time.
And you know, the first time thephysical recovery was really
hard.
I was on maternity leave from acorporate job, but I was like,
you know, it was a full-time jobdoing all these appointments,

(01:04:00):
right?
And doing the physical therapyexercises and you know, it's
just a, a long recovery.
And then on top of that, themental recovery.
So like I experienced a lot ofpostpartum anxiety the first
time around.
And I joined a wonderful supportgroup with Rise Wellness
Collaborative.
It was a free support group fornew moms, and we just, you know,

(01:04:21):
like shared our experiences andgave support I dunno how I
would've made it through theanxiety without that group.
But I remember different pointswhere you know, carrying my baby
from our room to the nursery andthe night to feed or change
diapers or whatever, and likewalking across the balcony or
like upstairs walking by thebalcony and just like.

(01:04:43):
Holding this newborn thinkinghe's just gonna fling himself
over the edge.
Like,

Exie (01:04:48):
Yeah.

you know, you like, just have all these
intrusive thoughts.
And you know, I, I lived a lotof my life with fear like that,
anxiety of, of postpartum.
And this time around it's notthere at all.
And I don't know if that'sbecause of being a second time
mom and like, it, it feelsdifferent.

Exie (01:05:11):
Mm-hmm.

know if that's a different birth that I went
through and I didn't have.
You know, as traumatic of anexperience as I did the first
time around, or, you know, justmaybe my, my brain chemistry is
different.
The support is different.
I, I don't know what it is, butI, I don't have it.
And that has made it so that Ican get back to just like,

(01:05:31):
enjoying my life as a mom oftwo.
You know, jumping into, again,being a business owner.
I designed kitchens of bathroomsand at three weeks postpartum, I
went out on a cabinet deliverywhere we were like, you know,
delivering cabinets.
And I brought my three, threeweek old with me.
She was in a little baby carrierand it was just like, it just
felt like she like slid into ourlives and we just kept going on

(01:05:55):
rather than.
This like monumental first birthwhere you're just kind of like
time stand still and

Exie (01:06:01):
Mm-hmm.

trying to recover and there's so much going on
mentally and it was just so muchsmoother this time around.
So we're doing really well fourmonths postpartum.
She's getting her second tooth.
Four months, had her first threeand a half.

Exie (01:06:16):
she is early, isn't she?

I don't know.
We'll see.
We'll see what happens, but soof course, you know, like we're
going through teething right nowand, you know, sleep changes at
four months and there'ssomething we're doing
differently this time around isco-sleeping from day one rather
than waiting for two months likewe did the first time around.
And I feel like that's been ahuge positive impact on my
mental health as well.

(01:06:41):
So,

Exie (01:06:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.

yeah.

Exie (01:06:43):
is probably one of the main components of mental health
wellness is making sure that youhave that good anchored sleep
of, you know, to four hourswhere you're able to like go
through your sleep cycles.
That has a huge impact on yourability to handle the mental and

(01:07:03):
emotional load of the day.

Yes.

Exie (01:07:06):
Yeah.

what I didn't know before was you know, some
babies aren't gonna sleep forfour hours in a bassinet.
They just don't, they're notwired that way.
That's not their biology towanna be away from mom.

Exie (01:07:18):
Mm-hmm.

And so I followed all the rules that you're
supposed to and put him in thebassinet by himself on his back,
and he'd sleep for like maybe 20minutes.
And I was getting these justteeny tiny little.
Blinks of asleep.
And I remember one nightthinking I could hold two hours
at a time.
Like this is amazing.
So the first couple of monthswere a big struggle the first

(01:07:41):
time around because he justdidn't sleep without me.
I read a couple of books.
I read Safe Infant Sleep by Dr.
James McKenna

Exie (01:07:49):
Mm-hmm.

read Sweet Sleep by Lache League.
They're both wonderful.
And they helped me understandlike the data and the research
and they helped me understandlike my instincts and I learned
how to like safely prepare mybed and like safely co-sleep
with my baby and breastfeed allnight long.
And you can actually breastfeeda baby like three or four times

(01:08:10):
in a night and have a reallygood night of sleep if

Exie (01:08:13):
Yeah.

reason if you're not getting out of bed and, you
know, walking to the nursery andavoiding the balcony and you're
just there in bed together.
I, doing that from day one hasprobably made a really big
impact for me as well.

Exie (01:08:27):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And there are some cultures,mine included being Asian, where
it is abnormal to put your babyin a different room to sleep.

Right.

Exie (01:08:36):
is not what is culturally.
It's not the cultural tradition,it's not the core of our
beliefs.
So I think the A.A.P.
the American Academy ofPediatrics is recognizing that
even westernized families whoare breastfeeding do end up
just, it happens.

(01:08:56):
You bring that baby into the bedwith you.
So it's, it's really good thatyou did your research ahead of
time.
It's commendable.
And I'm going, you, you'vedropped so many resources.
The one that we, I, I didn't geta name for was your pelvic floor
therapy.
Who was that with?

Oh.
The pelvic floor therapy I didprobability sorry.
Words are like, what was it?
Probability, Trinity Health.
I went to the one in Ypsilantithe first time around and the
one in Canton the second timearound.
They're all fantastic.

Exie (01:09:26):
Okay.
I

but

Exie (01:09:27):
be able to drop those links

yeah.

Exie (01:09:30):
notes, all of the little nuggets of information.
You have so many nuggets that Ihope our listeners will pull
from whatever resonates withthem, because you really brought
a lot to the table today, andI'm so grateful for that.
It's, it's truly been an honorto hear both of your birth
stories

Thank you.

Exie (01:09:47):
ways your babies came into the, I love, I, I just, I, I
think in pictures and I justpicture, I don't know what Dave
looks like, but I just picturethis, you know, in a nice
darkened bathroom, this manshape telling you stories as
you're laboring in the tub.
It's just, yeah.

It was really beautiful and I, I forgot to
share this as well the secondtime around.
He is an amateur photographerand like has a, a nice camera
and loves to take like, artisticphotos when we're out hiking or
of our kids or whatever.
And since my mom wasn't gonna bethere when we're on the way to
the hospital, I'm like, Dave,you gotta take some pictures of
this'cause

Exie (01:10:24):
Yeah.

like, my mom's not gonna be there.
And he pulled through so manyways.
I'll, I'll share, I'll share oneor two that you're welcome to
share with this podcast.
But having him the with thestories, the support the photos,
like I look back and those arelike my favorite photos of
myself, of my whole life.

(01:10:45):
So

Exie (01:10:45):
I

really just really special to have that
support.
Yeah.

Exie (01:10:48):
I love that.
I love that.
And so I'm, I'm so grateful toothat you accepted my to be on
video as well.
So we're gonna take thispodcast, the video component,
we're gonna add it to theplaylist on my YouTube page, and
that way our listeners will beable,'cause wanna be able to
provide some more informationbehind like your, the
gestational diabetes and Pitocinand all of those kinds of

(01:11:11):
things.
So we'll have some visual aidsfor people to kind of understand
those things better.
And if you wanted to send me apicture from your birth, I can
always add that on here.
So anybody who's watching thevideo will be able to see it.
This has just been such anincredible conversation.
Thank you so much for sharingyour story with me and with of

(01:11:33):
the listeners.
I hope it's been inspiring to meand I'm not having any more
children, so.

Thank you for giving me the space to share it.
I mean, I think that birth isreally powerful, but like, it,
it's even more empowering whenyou get to share it and have
people listen and hold space foryou, and I appreciate that.

Exie (01:11:53):
Yeah, absolutely.
So if anyone listening wants toconnect with you, what is the
best way that they can do that,either or professionally?
can you share with us?

Oh yeah.
So I guess the easiest way tofind me is on Instagram.
My business is ArtisticKitchens.
It's artistic, A-R-T-I-S-T-I-Cdot kitchens with an s.com.
And feel free to DM me there.
I have a personal one as well,but it's like more locked down
so it's easier to find mybusiness,

Exie (01:12:24):
Perfect.
I'll

and there's a, there's a newborn picture of
Laine on my business.
If you, if you go back farenough on my Instagrams,

Exie (01:12:30):
Oh, fabulous.
Yes.
We'll definitely have to checkthat out.

yeah.

Exie (01:12:34):
The great thing

it's all good.

Exie (01:12:35):
this, I'm gonna go ahead and stop recording now.

Yeah.

Exie (01:12:40):
Thank you for spending time with me today on Metro
Detroit Birth Stories.
If you loved this episode, letme know.
Leave a review, share it with afriend, and come connect with me
on Instagram at Metro Detroitbirth support.
And if you have a birth story toshare, I would love to hear it.

(01:13:01):
Please take a moment to reachout to me, whether it was six
months ago or 60 years ago, yourstory could be the inspiration
for someone who hears it to gainthe confidence they need as they
embark on their own birthjourney.
My email is in the show notes.
This podcast is produced andfunded by me, and I really

(01:13:24):
appreciate you listening.
Until next time, take care.
Be gentle with yourself.
Be kind to others and remember,every birth story deserves to be
told.
The music you hear on MentorDetroit birth stories has been
provided by Purple Planet Music,written and performed by Chris

(01:13:47):
Martin and Jeff Harvey.

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A Redemptive Birth - From "Almost" to "Empowering"

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}A Redemptive Birth - From "Almost" to "Empowering"