From Dismissed to Divine: Reclaiming My Power Through Birth

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Exie Buehler-4 (00:00):
In today's Metro Detroit birth story, I would
like to share a gentle contentwarning.
This episode containsdiscussions of obstetric trauma,
postpartum hemorrhage, andinfant illness.
If you've had similarexperiences or are feeling
tender in this area, please takecare of yourself as you listen.

(00:25):
While the episode ends on a verypositive and hopeful note with
my guest and her children doingwell, it may still bring up
sensitive emotions for somelisteners, and I would like to
honor your emotional safetyfirst and foremost.
Thank you so much.

Exie (00:43):
Welcome to Metro Detroit Birth Stories where we celebrate
the power, wisdom, and beauty ofbirth, one story at a time.
I'm your host, Exie Buehler, abirth and postpartum doula,
childbirth educator, andmaternal mental and emotional
wellness coach.
My passion for supportingbirthing families began 20 years

(01:05):
ago and has only grown sincethen.
In this space, you'll hear realbirth stories from Metro Detroit
and beyond, along with insightsfrom my work that might resonate
with your own journey becauseevery birth story matters and
every journey,deserves to beheard.

(01:26):
Please note that this podcast isintended for entertainment and
informational purposes only.
The stories shared are from theperspective of the person
sharing it and do not representmy thoughts, opinions, or views.
I am a non-medical professionalwhose thoughts, opinions, and
views are my own.
So nothing said should beconstrued or understood as

(01:50):
medical advice.
Please discuss all of yourconcerns or questions with your
pregnancy provider.
Now, let's hear today's story.
Good morning, Elise.
How are you today?

Elise Bowerman (02:03):
Good morning, Exie.
Thanks for having me here.

Exie (02:06):
Yeah,

It's good to see you.

Exie (02:07):
thanks for joining.
Yeah, I know.
Listeners probably don't know.
We go way, way back, don't we?
I can't even, I was trying tothink of when and how we first
crossed paths and

I think it just popped into my head literally as
you were saying it is there usedto be like, I think a Livonia
birth worker, some birthnetwork, and I think that was it
right before it fizzled anddissolved.

Exie (02:31):
Yeah

so it was probably like two.
It was probably like, I don'tknow, was it oh nine or.

Exie (02:36):
oh golly,

I, but yeah, we've been together for a while.

Exie (02:41):
Yeah, and it's so great because I'm sure, like me, you
have seen colleagues in thisfield that we knew way back
then, transition into other.
Either out of birth, workentirely or focused on something
else.
And, if anybody has gone back orhas listened to the previous
iteration of this podcast, whichI keep referring to there's an

(03:01):
early interview with you.
And at the time you were if I'mremembering correctly, you were
teaching full-time prenatal yogaclasses to pregnant women?
Correct.

I've always been part-time, but yeah.
But prenatal yoga has alwaysbeen on my plate since 2009.
Yeah.

Exie (03:18):
Yeah.

Yeah.

Exie (03:19):
and you're also a birth doula.

Yes.
In 2020 I got certified withPatty Brennan with lifespan
doulas for birth and postpartum.
Yeah.

Exie (03:27):
fantastic.
And in recent years, you've gonethrough your own transition.
So why don't you tell us just alittle bit about that.

Thank you, and I really love how you named the
ebb and flow of the birthworkers in our community, and I
think that's such an importantthing.
Just before I even share my owntransition of life and
priorities is as most birthworkers are women and as women,
we really live like a spirallife and it's not linear and we

(03:57):
are typically the nurturers inour families and in our
friendships and communities.
And there is this natural ebband flow of how much time and
energy we can give to ourcommunity, how much time and
energy we can give to differentfamily members and of course
ourselves.
And that is, it was one of thosethings I think most of us in

(04:18):
service of this type of work isless and one of those healing
things for our own life storiesto prioritize ourself if, for
the benefit of all, and, andeveryone's part and how they
showed up through the yearsimpacts our community as a whole
for the birth workers.
I'm such a believer that MetroDetroit ought to be and will be,

(04:40):
a pin on the map of one of thebest places to birth in our
country and maybe even the worldbecause we have bright wise,
people, women leading thepriority of taking care of
mother and taking care of thebabies and children and the
families as a whole.
And and we're doing the work,even if it's for a blip in the

(05:04):
radar of someone's lifespan,right?
Everybody's step really mattersand creates an impact and a
ripple effect.
So thank you for listening tothat little spiel and with my
own self too.
So my own transition of mybusiness and my sense of purpose
just had to come, at its owntime.

(05:27):
I was under this name of SweetMama Yoga, and while I like
really loved the name, I feltreally confined to the word
yoga.
And because like in social mediaand media in general, there's.
Not like the properrepresentation of what the yoga
practice is and which makespeople think that they can't

(05:49):
practice it.
And that disturbs me and so Ijust really wanted to give
myself, more spaciousnessbecause I'm, I incorporate way
more than yoga.
I I infuse a lot of intuitiveenergy healing.
I really had This relationshipwith my mom who was a seeker of
truth.
That's what I like to call her.

(06:10):
She was a very curious person.
And when I was growing up in, inmy early twenties, like I got
certified as, a reiki level.
I just did level two and I didintuitive training to intuitive
medical training.
I, yeah, and I did some othermodalities and so it really has
infused into all that I do andmy background.

(06:33):
I'm one of those yoga teachersthat, my background is in dance
but I chose yoga because I wason the track of being a dance
movement therapist and when Ifound yoga in college, I was
like this is it like this piecestogether, the emotional and
mental health with physicalawareness, healing, releasing,

(06:56):
all the things that we callsomatics now and, I was like
this is it.
I don't need to go to mymasters.
I'm like I'm good.
But then I realized, yearslater, that's not really what
people think of as the yogapractice, but it's like how my
interpretation has been.
And so I just really wanted toexpand beyond that.
So I worked with my husbandwho's in marketing and we like

(07:17):
literally did a three hoursession that really was multiple
days before, but then a crashcourse of focus of what are you
about?
What's your mission driven?
Like who do you wanna serve?
All the things and birthhumanity was just what popped
out of this intense session.
And I feel like it's just broadand really focused, and I
believe that all the work thatI'm doing is that ripple effect

(07:41):
and that the moms I serve arecreating a better humanity
because we're seeing thedisconnection that happens in
our society, the violence, thedistrust in one another.
I'm really focused on womentrusting each other and
reclaiming that in our society.
So many more things and bringingwomen of all ages and stages of

(08:02):
life together in one roombecause we're really missing
that in today's world because weneed our elders, we need the
wise women and to have themshare their stories so we can
learn from.
So yeah, so I'm just there, mykids are teenagers now and so
it's just like that naturalevolution of what's going on in

(08:22):
teenage life

Exie (08:24):
Yeah.

and the challenges and also the ease
that it brings.
It's the double-edged, life ofdifferent problems, different
purposes of showing up as amother and as a woman and the
freedom in that it gives me,which is why.
I didn't become a, I've alwayswanted to become a birth and
postpartum doula.
I didn't really know I wanted tobe a postpartum doula until I
really was it, and I love thework.

(08:46):
But I had to have my familystructure in a way so that I
could leave.
And before that, my husband andI, we just created our family
structure where I am the go-toperson.
Like I have, I was the oneavailable and around, and that
was our agreement.
And it was fine.
And then once my kids got olderand my son could my oldest could

(09:06):
babysit, then I was like, sweet,I can go in the middle of the
night if needed and it's okay.
Or, we can figure things outonce they were older.
So it's been nice to be able tointertwine that work and the
children to see because again,you know modeled behavior is
everything.
And for them to see their momand their dad like prioritize

(09:27):
this work and that it'simportant really speaks volumes
to what they're digesting.

Exie (09:34):
Yeah, absolutely.
So postpartum doula work is Ithink a much broader world than
birth doula work.
So tell me a little bit aboutwhat you focus on.
Do you focus mostly on thephysical healing?
Do you balance that out withemotional and mental wellness?
Do you do like housekeeping?

(09:57):
What does your postpartum doulasupport look like?

Literally all that you named.
'cause it's so individualized.
Mom is so different.
My focus is really on helpingher train herself to prioritize
rest.

Exie (10:14):
Yes.

Every woman that I've worked with so far is
extremely disconnected from theidea of rest and recharging,
rejuvenating, all those words,And so it's whatever she needs.
Like for one of my clients, shefelt really good and I was
fortunate enough to be her birthdoula too.
And so she felt really goodafter her birth.

(10:35):
And you know when you don't haveintervention a lot of times and
you feel good about yourself,you feel confident, you're like,
holy crap, I did it.
It's amazing.
This is what people talk about.
This is what.
This is what it's about.
When you have those kind ofexperiences, it can lead to
being like, I'm okay.
I'm all right.
And it's yes, you are okay.
You are right and you're notbroken.

(10:57):
However, we still need to restjust baby on your chest.
That's it.
Like your presence iseverything.
And so my point is for her, shewould be up doing stuff and
'cause the orderliness of herhome is really important and
that, and then that makes her beable to rest.
And I'm sure so many women canrelate to that.

(11:17):
Once the kitchen's clean, then Ican go to sleep, type of thing.
And she would literally sit inthe kitchen with me and her
baby.
And I like went through cupboardby cupboard and cleaned and
reorganized and'cause it waslike on the back of her mind to
do during this postpartum timeoff of work.
And this was like the to-dolist.
And I was like, all right, ifyou'll sit, I'll go through your

(11:40):
cabinets and then.
At least your physical body'sresting as much as we can allow
it right now.
It's just meeting them wherethey're at and how much they're
willing to let me in too, rightinto the heart of what they're
feeling and sensing and andcoming through.
So sometimes there's a big wallup and.

(12:04):
And it's like I can only tap onthe wall and do so much, making
food wise, showing up,encouraging, whatever might need
to be or I feel is necessary toencourage or whatever.
And they just have their owndriving agenda.
But I think being a continuedpresence is really valuable.

Exie (12:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
What is the estimated timeframethat you support a woman in
postpartum?

Typically so far it's just been, within the first
six months postpartum andusually like shortly after
birth.

Exie (12:38):
Yeah.

Yeah.
But like for me, I would extendit beyond and I really only
serve, my students.
So it helps in their continuityof care.
And then they already know how Ioperate and we already have that
relationship.
It's whoever's done previouslyor whatever.
Yeah.
Like they've been in prenatalyoga or have worked with me
one-on-one.

(12:59):
And then that way it's a littlebit more seamless and not like
they're learning a new person.
And it's not like I'm learning anew person.
I.

Exie (13:08):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's an excellent point.
Many of us get into this fieldmotivated by our own lived
experiences.
Some of us get into this fieldjust because we absolutely love
the whole and transition ofwatching women go from,
pre-pregnancy, throughpregnancy, and then becoming a

(13:29):
mother.
Some of us get into it with alittle bit of a foundation of
where we came from and eitherwhat we loved about how our
situation was, our experiencewas, or what we didn't, and want
to then hopefully fill thosegaps for our clients.
We are here to tell stories andI want to hear yours.

Yeah.
Thank you so much.
I'm really honored to share mystories and I realize they're
not recent.
My son is, my oldest is 15 andmy daughter is 13, and I think
that it speaks to the impactthat our birth has, our, the
birthing of our own children hason us as moms and women.
The women that we're becoming,and it's.

(14:14):
It's such a, in our society ingeneral, It's a medical
condition.
It's, you have to be observedand monitored, type of
experience that is a wiseprocess and I completely honor
and respect, when there has tobe some help to get pregnant.

(14:37):
And then when that's over, thebody is wise, Baby cells are
super wise, and it's justunfolding and happening without
us consciously telling ourbabies to grow and to do their
things Right.

Exie (14:53):
You know it, it's funny that you say your birth
experiences were over a decade.
Ago, I actually recently, I wasvisiting my son and
daughter-in-law in California,and I met a woman who was in her
eighties and she was in thecoffee shop with her daughter
who is in her sixties and herdaughter has no children, but we

(15:13):
spent about 15 minutes.
Where that 80-year-old woman wassharing her birth experience of
her daughter who was sittingright there next to her.
And it just reminded me onceagain, of how changes us from
our core being and stays with usfor the rest of our lives.

(15:38):
And at 80 some years old, shewas able to tell me details that
were memorable about herexperience.
No birth story is too long agofor me.

Yes.
No.
Yeah.
I thank you so much for that.
Yes, and that is such a perfectexample of why we need the wise
women in the room.
We need our elders because theyshow through their model
behavior, through their ownprocessing as women as they age,
of how impactful this moment isand how special and sacred it

(16:13):
is.
And it's not to be justoverlooked or to like
intelligently tell ourselveswe're done, we're through that,
and I get we need to do that forsurvival.
However, it's deeply impactfuland people will remember those
moments and then how we felt andif repair is necessary.

(16:34):
I'll share my story too, if youfeel defeated, like you are
already feeling as a motherbefore this baby's even out.
Like that's awful.
And, but repair can happen.
So I'll speak on that too.

Exie (16:46):
Yeah.
So

yeah.

Exie (16:47):
it.

Yeah.
Okay, so I'll start with Lucas,my son and to just give context
of time because I feel like, nofamily operates the same, every
household is different.
Every woman is different andevery, all those things.
Just a little bit of context.
My husband and I it was, so hewas born in November of 2009,
and he's a Turkey baby.

(17:08):
So he was born on ThanksgivingDay.

Exie (17:11):
I love that.
A Turkey baby.
I don't think I've ever heardthat before.

Yay.
Yeah, so he's my Turkey baby and2008 was the market crash.
My husband and I were in our midto late twenties, and we had
just gotten married in 2008.
In early 2009, so at our threemonth anniversary, which our
anniversary is Memorial Dayweekend.
And so this year we're in 2025.

(17:36):
We're recording this, and sothis year we're celebrating 17
years and yeah, so we're doingit.
Thanks.
Yeah, like May of 2008 we gotmarried, stock market crashed,
bought our house.
We were both working full-time.
And then early spring of 2009, Iquit my full-time job and then

(17:58):
literally immediately found outI was pregnant.
So we had agreed in what we knewthen of how we would want to
raise our children and family isthat I would be home, most of
the time.
And the available parent and.
So I was like I'm pregnant.
I'm just gonna teach yoga andthat works for us.
And so I read a lot.

(18:19):
My mom really encouraged me toinform myself about pregnancy,
about childbirth, and she taughtme about limb imprinting, which
is, In a nutshell, cellularmemory of how we are cared for
in our mother's womb, in ourgrandmother's womb, and how we

(18:42):
were cared for in our moments ofbirth.
Postpartum and now we know thefirst three to seven years of
life, like limbic imprinting isjust happening deeply
unconscious.
An example of it is you don'tknow why you feel so strongly
about something, because itdidn't happen to you in this
lifetime.
That's a story we tellourselves.
It was like, I shouldn't feelthat way.
I feel really strongly aboutthis, or this triggers me, or,

(19:05):
whatever.
And.
It doesn't make logical sensefrom what you know of your life
story or what you've witnessedor experienced, and so it's
probably a cellular memory,either of your mom's, grandma's,
or your own birth experiencethat's just held.
In ourselves and'cause we arefeelers, first, psychology,
birth psychology, neuroneuroscience proves that we are

(19:27):
feelers first before we are everthinkers.
So to believe that we have tothink our way through birth is
completely false.
It is a feeling sensingexperience because birth is such
a reflection of.
Like you named, like aninitiation of the woman that
we're co becoming, we are beingrebirthed as our, we are

(19:49):
birthing the next generation onour planet.
So she, yeah, so she taught me alot about that as much as she
could, in the nineties and earlytwo thousands.
And I knew I was an emergencyc-section despite.
Her provider urging her to haveme on Thursday on the 12th,

(20:13):
because otherwise I would beborn on Friday the 13th.

Exie (20:17):
Oh, and there are babies that come on Friday the 13th.
It is not indicative of howtheir life is going to go.

Yeah.

Exie (20:27):
people who those dates or those numbers are very
meaningful I can see.

Yes.

Exie (20:33):
too, there are some cultures where numerology kind
of.
Dictates the choices that theymake.

Yeah.
She was like first she thought Iwas a boy.
So he will be born when he'sborn.
Yeah.
My name was gonna be Jeffrey.

Exie (20:47):
Oh, that's funny.
Was that an ultrasound that madeher think or was it just her
sense, her feeling?

No.
'cause I don't think they didultrasounds.
'Cause I was born in 81, so Idon't think that they did'em
back then.
So she had no idea.
But her mom knew I was gonna bea girl and

Exie (21:03):
Oh, that's funny.
That limbic system, thoseemotions, those feelings, those
like sixth sense that we have

Yeah.
Yeah.
And, but she was like, this babywill be born when they're meant
to be born and everything.
And and Friday the 13th isactually a very auspicious day.
In like sacred femininepractices, there's been a lot of
uncovering of the symbolism of13 and and how it's actually
like the day of the divinefeminine.

(21:31):
It's the Venus stay Frida orFrida.
Shoot I'm not sure which way tosay it.
And so it's actually like a,it's like the mother kind of
day.
It's very much that it could bethe matron or the matriarchy
kind of day.
Very feminine day.
And of course it was erasedGlobally in other times in past
centuries.

(21:52):
She had a spontaneous labor withme, but then I was an emergency
C-section and I was so gratefulfor so much that my mom was able
to give me she said, she waslike, I was scared and she had
past trauma, physical trauma,and she's I was scared.
And she's I knew I could do it,but she's I was just so scared

(22:13):
and she didn't wanna become amom.
And then so her giving me thatinformation, she never wanted to
be a mom and her giving me thatinformation, she was like, if
you want to break this cycle ofthe dysfunction in our maternal
line,'cause there's multiplegenerations of not great
relationships between mothersand daughters and.

(22:37):
She's you're gonna have toreally do things differently.
And she's I think that you can,'cause she's you're not like me.
I'm like, Nope.
But I am.
And just gave me thatinformation and I could see that
it's her story and the way shebirthed doesn't have to be the
way that I birth, but there isgonna be a big reclamation

(22:58):
because.
That cycle was alreadyinterrupted of the vaginal
births.
My grandma, her mom had vaginalbirths.
My mom had two C-sections.
And then I'm here to reclaim thevaginal birth right for our
story in our family.
And and yeah.
When we found out I waspregnant, I was like, all right,
we need to figure out, and myhusband needs to understand what

(23:21):
birth is about so that he's notprojecting his feelings on me.
And we did the Bradley method,which was really helpful for us.
And I read a lot and of coursein prenatal yoga and was
teaching prenatal yoga and.
Another stressor that washappening in my pregnancy was my

(23:43):
husband left his full-time jobto do his side hustle business
as a full-time business with abusiness partner.
I was six months pregnant whenthat initiation happened.
And so it's like this big deeptrust that we had in the way
that we wanted to live ourlives.
And the risks that we werewilling to take, because there's

(24:06):
always risks in life.
And when we don't take thoserisks that are uncomfortable,
but for some reason we're calledto, those are missed
opportunities for our own growthAnd so I think that's really
important to name that ourbabies bring about new
opportunity there.
When I'm in prenatal yoga withthe moms, like there's major

(24:28):
renovations going on.
Someone's moving in a big way,cross country or whatever.
Moving is just impactfulnonetheless.
Someone loses a job or gains anew opportunity in their career
and it doesn't feel like itmight be the best on paper.
It doesn't feel like it's gonnabe the best time, but this is
when it's presented and do Imove forward with it or what?

(24:49):
There's losses in familiesbecause literally living the
circle of life in such a deephuman way and so much more that,
it's like, why is this happeningright now?
We wanna just coast, butcoasting in life doesn't exist.
It's a false narrative thatsomebody made up.
There's no coast, there's justebbs and flows, and when you're

(25:11):
on the high, just ride the high.
Just go,

Exie (25:13):
Yep.
A beautiful way to describethat, for sure.
Absolutely.
And I think the way that you'vedescribed what we now call
transgenerational trauma, Onfrom one generation to the other
is something that is more, Ithink in people's awareness now.

(25:34):
However, the way that youexplained it and how also the
mode of birth that each womanhas does have a lasting effect
on the subsequent generations.
And I love also that you thatyou and your husband had an open
dialogue about his experience,And what he saw as his role in

(25:56):
supporting you.
So that's fantastic.

Yeah, thanks.
I married a good one and yeah,he was really, for as much
pressure as he was under that healso put on himself to do his
own business and all the things,even though I was a cheerleader
next to him and I was a bigpiece of that.
He was still very engaged asmuch as he could possibly be

(26:20):
engaged.
What I learned early on, and Ithink my mom probably dropped
this seed was especially men,they need tools and if they
don't have tools to tinker withto figure out, then they don't
know what to do Then they'relost and so lists are really
helpful, And prioritizing a listfor them to show them different

(26:43):
ways.
That's what the Bradley method,and I know there's so many other
methods like hypnobirthing andthere's so many great
opportunities, calm birth forpartners to get on board and
understand The impactful rolethat they can have, and so that
they don't feel lost in what is,physiological birth or when
intervention is necessary sothat they can have this like

(27:03):
little bit of understanding ofthe normalcy of it all.

Exie (27:07):
Yeah,

Yeah.

Exie (27:08):
It's something that I try really hard to focus on when I'm
teaching childbirth education tomy clients, whether that's birth
prep or postpartum recovery tipsor newborn care It's a woman's
biologically, they're on theoutside of the experience.
Yeah.
They're not feeling the babymove inside of you.

(27:28):
They're not the ones who arehaving although I had a friend
who had sympathy nausea duringhis wife's pregnancy, there are
those situations, but generallyspeaking, the male partner is
not experiencing that internalgrowth and change.
So helping them see that have ahuge role in this experience and

(27:54):
that this experience is alsotheirs is so important.
And Bradley method, I think itwas, it had a height back then,
didn't it?
It's trickled down a little bitfrom what I've seen.

I've seen the same thing.
Yeah.
I didn't know anything else wasavailable besides the Bradley
method back then, but yeah, Idon't know what happened to it
all.
But it worked for us.
It was really beneficial andsupportive.
It was our way,

Exie (28:19):
yep.
Yep.

Yeah.
Yeah.
And so to get to the birth storyof that, of all that context we
were living in Novi when I hadthe babies and I birthed Lucas,
my oldest at Providence, shortlyafter it had opened, it was like
shining and new and I was like,this is so great.

(28:40):
And so I had a ob,'cause onlyobs are at Providence and Novi.
We had asked our Bradley methodteacher if she would be able to
be our doula.
My doula, but she wasn'tavailable and my husband and I
talked a lot and I was justemotionally exhausted from all
the decision making, and justthe learning.
And he was like, I really thinkthat we can do this by

(29:03):
ourselves.
And he's I will be there foryou.
He said all the words that Ineeded to hear and the
reassurance, the emotionalcomponent, and I was like, yeah,
we got this.
And and so I didn't have a birthdoula for for Lucas.
And I actually had back labor.
I didn't really know I was evenhaving back labor and my due

(29:24):
date.
As we know, I think as birthworkers, it's like a due month
and but at that time it was thedue date that I thought I was
gonna be around aligned withwhen Lucas actually was born.
But, according to measurementsand all the things.
He was 11 days late.
And yeah.
And, it's just the story of thefirst like I literally dropped

(29:44):
everything and was like, okay, Ishould be having this baby.

Exie (29:47):
Yeh, right, right,

Let me just sit here and wait.
Which is like the worst thing Ithink that I could have done for
myself.

Exie (29:53):
Yeah, the emotional toll that that has on you is and then
you have all your friends andfamily checking in and saying,
how you doing today?
Have you felt anything?
When do you think it's gonnahappen?
And then you start without evenrealizing it, you're developing
performance anxiety where you Ihave to go into labor because
everybody's waiting and theywanna hear.
I tell my clients, send out amass text

Yep.

Exie (30:15):
38 weeks and just tell everybody that you're gonna
spend the next two weeks orhowever long it takes.
Just.
Spending time getting yourselfemotionally ready to have your
baby, and if they have anyquestions, they can always
message your partner.

That is such great advice, Pearl of wisdom
right there.
That is beautiful.

Exie (30:35):
you.

Yes.
Yes.
That is.
So necessary.
And yeah.
And so I had back labor and, or,the I had back labor the whole
time and Lucas was my, what wecall our tenderly my Buddha
baby, like my husband John.
He never, I.
He never felt Lucas move.
He was, Lucas was just thatstill baby.

(30:57):
And I don't know, I have norecollection, no memory, if the
placenta was in front orwhatever the story was of why we
didn't feel him.
I barely felt him.
People were like, oh, theflutters.
I was like, yeah.

Exie (31:10):
Yeah.
Yeah,

And

Exie (31:11):
anterior placenta acts as a shock absorber,

yeah.

Exie (31:14):
Those moms don't feel as much.
You're absolutely right.

Yeah.
And so I, I'm guessing that's mystory, and I didn't really,
thankfully I'm just so gratefulI had my kids when I did because
now it's just I feel like thesemoms are just bombarded with
information and counting kicks,and I'm like, oh my gosh, if I
was hungry and my belly wasgrowing, I knew that everything
was okay.

(31:38):
It's like there.
We've just lost that trust inourselves.
And then again that theproviders are covering their
butts and, all the things is itjust causes more stress on the
moms in my opinion.
And so he was my Buddha baby.
John never felt him.
And, and like I was like, oh, Ithink I might be in labor, like

(32:00):
my low back's hurting.
So I went to the chiropractorand then.
And that was on,'cause he'sTurkey baby, so he was born
Thursday.
And so Wednesday I went to thechiropractor.
I was like, I'm pretty sure I'min labor.
Let's keep things going.
And then in the middle of thenight, that night, well-trained

(32:20):
of letting my husband sleep andI'm like, he doesn't need to be
here.
I'm okay.
And then I don't know, sometimeearly morning hours we, went to
the hospital and i'm likewalking in and, but also I was
in active labor and just walkingin and going through Providence

(32:42):
Park is really nice'cause youcan just go right up to the
labor and delivery floor.
It's one really nice thing aboutit.
And I had an amazing nurse andwe John and I walked around the
hospital floor.
And I just moved around theroom.
I.
Probably swore more in my lifethan ever and people who know
me.

(33:03):
I have a little bit of a pottymouth and it was really potty
mouth and, the light switchgetting flipped of, contraction
or surge and then not was like,John was like you, he's they
weren't kidding, like of focusintense and then back to normal
And it was a long labor and backlabor.

(33:25):
And finally when it was time toand I say push'cause that's the
effort that I felt and, to juststart pushing him down.
I found myself like seated inthe bed with my knees in my
armpits, and I really liked thatposition.
I actually birthed my daughterthe same way for me.

(33:46):
It really worked with my bodyand I had an amazing nurse.
Like I said, however, I feltreally under supported by my
provider.
Granted, being Thanksgiving, Idon't think anybody really
wanted to be working.
And my provider, he would bechecking in and out and one time

(34:08):
and this is me, like in thepushing phase, like of bringing
baby underneath, into thepelvis, underneath the pubis
bones and out, which is a veryvulnerable position to be in.
I really give so much credit tothe women that are in that phase
on the toilet that just reallywraps my mind.

(34:29):
But I know it works for so many,but I'm like, I I, I can't
imagine myself doing that, Itworks and I get it
intellectually but I'm like, oh,I'm here.
I'm pushing baby out in my mind,right?
Baby's gonna be entering theworld soon.
I don't know when, but soon.
And there's nobody at thebottom, right?
Like I have my nurse on the sideof me, I have John on the side

(34:51):
of me and I'm just breathingbaby down and out.
And I'm working really hard andI'm really exhausted.
And this is like mid-afternoon'cause he was born at 3:40 and
and my provider came in probablybefore this, but like literally
looked at his watch and waslike, I've already delivered,

(35:12):
two babies while you've beendoing this.
And I was like.
What?
And then I go, can you just stayin the room?
Because I'm like, spread open.
I'm like, just, I just need abody there.
That's all I need, i'm like, canyou just stay in the room?
And he's no, you're not ready.
And I'm like, oh my gosh.
And so I just felt what do Ihave to do?

(35:33):
And that performative aspect ofwhat do I have to do to, make
you believe that I'm here,right?
Because my honesty and my, whatI'm feeling, I'm being
transparent and asking is notworking.
And so I didn't know, I had noanswer to that.
And then however much timepassed and then he came back in

(35:53):
and, checked me and everything.
And I think Lucas had gottendown further and then found out
he had meconium so then therewas more of a sense of urgency
to get him out.

Exie (36:07):
Yeah.

He's we're gonna have to use forceps or a vacuum.
And that was, I say to my mom'suse your fear, use your anger to
your advantage because it can bethe catalyst that you just need.
For whatever reason it does,it's not right, but it can be a
catalyst for what.
You desire for the outcome.

(36:30):
And so as soon as he said that,I was like, boop, get this baby
out.
I was like, you are not doingany of that to my kids Or me.
And so fortunately I was able tobirth him and and get him out
without any

Exie (36:49):
assistance.

assistance tools.
Yeah.
And because he was meconium,they had to take him across
their, there were so many peoplein the room.

Exie (36:57):
Yeah.

I was not mentally prepared for that.
I was like, holy crap.
When my mind came to, and I waslike taking it all in, I was
like, holy crap.
And and at that time doing bloodcore or cord blood donations and
like cord blood, whatever it isgathering.
Yeah.

(37:18):
Banking, thank you was reallynew and very hyped up, so I was
like, whatever, you can take mycord blood.
I don't care.
And I was really naive to whatall that was and or still is
today So I was laying there andthen I hemorrhaged a lot and had
to have oxygen and part of theplacenta was stuck in me and I'm

(37:42):
gonna get back to the cord bloodin a second.
But part of the placenta was,still attached.
So they had to go in and scrape,which is real, like the worst
thing.
My husband was like, you looklike the exorcist.
He's it was the most bizarre andscary thing that I've ever
witnessed.
And he, it like, he's I had no,he is I was, he's I was trans,

(38:06):
somewhere else too.
He was like, it was, he's I'venever seen anything like that,
let alone happen to you.
And after they did that, andthen massaging the belly.
Oh, just awful.
I'm laying there still open,like blood on the floor every,
according to John, blood on thefloor, everywhere.
And I just look like a mess,like he's worried about me.

(38:28):
He's looking at her son acrossthe room and he's like, where do
I go?
What do I do?
And I, and.
And so he got to go over andwatch Lucas and he actually got
to see them like, reshape hishead a little bit like doing the
gentle stuff that they do, Justmaking sure that he was all good
and stuff.
And he said it was likefascinating.
He was like, that was reallyneat and cool.

(38:50):
And and then once they were,then Lucas was just fine.
And John got to hold Lucasfirst.
'cause again, I was just therelike leftovers.
That's what it felt like.
And by the time John has Lucas,and we didn't do the eye
ointment on our children.
And when you don't do that, yourchildren get to see your aura

(39:11):
and really connect deeply.
He was just, he's I had no ideahe would be that.
Hooked onto me, and I was like,yeah.
I'm like, that's the imprint.
He knows that your dad andyou're the nurturer, your
protector, you know all thethings.
He like just locked eyes.
Like John still talks about ittoday.

(39:31):
He was just like, that was justso special.
And John's got Lucas and he'sokay, let's get this show on the
road for my wife.
And the doctor's like busycollecting the cord blood and
everything.
And John's can you just forgetthat now,'cause he's it's been
like 40 minutes and he's youhaven't even taken care of my

(39:52):
wife.
Can you just take care of herand clean up this blood?
Get somebody in to clean up thisblood.
He's this is ridiculous.
Like the priority of the cells.
He's it's so unimportant.
And he's just take care of mywife.
And then after I don't know howfast that was, but John said,
according to John, he's then hegot moving tending more to me
than the blood that was allaround.

(40:14):
And yeah, and sadly too duringthe birthing process, because it
was that time where we had toreally advocate for no
episiotomy and.
And actually where to cut.
And the doctor didn't listen toJohn or myself, and John was
like, right there with the withthe doctor of cut this way right

(40:36):
here.
And the doctor didn't like thatof course, right?
What do you know, dude?
And and so I had an episiotomyand a second degree episiotomy
tear.
And that was awful to heal from.
And and then it was really wild.
By the time I had my daughter in2012 episiotomies were grossly

(40:57):
going down, as a standardprocedure.
It was, it's just amazing justin a few years how it was just
like, yeah, we're not doingthat.
Like, it's not a standard thinganymore, and we're trying to let
you tear naturally.
And I was like, oh, that'sgreat, because I really had to
advocate for the first one andand that sort of thing.

(41:19):
So in a nutshell, that wasLucas's birth and we had the
best Thanksgiving dinner at thehospital.
We still talk about it.
It was delicious.
We were both starving and it wasgreat.
So that was his birth.
Yeah.

Exie (41:34):
Yeah, the meals at the hospital.
I remember with my eldest whowas born in 95, they brought me
this steak and like I got topick what I wanted.
So of course I picked steak andshrimp and tiny little bottle of
champagne.
And when the second baby came,think I asked for that, which
was three and a half yearslater, and they were like, oh,

(41:55):
we don't offer that anymore.
And I'm like, that was like,

Amazing.

Exie (42:00):
my reward for what I did.

Yes.

Exie (42:05):
Oh my goodness.

Yeah.

Exie (42:06):
I'm glad you had a good meal.
I hope.
Did your doctor ever, he wasthere like he never actually
left.

No.
Like he was there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There.
He followed through.
He was there.

Exie (42:17):
Yeah.
Those holiday babies I don'tthink that people fully
understand and I try and tell myclients this, especially if
they're planning an induction

Yeah.

Exie (42:28):
When your provider gives you a date for your induction,
it is not necessarily based onyour or your baby's health.
They are surgeons.
They have a surgical schedule towork out.
They're on rotation.
They wanna do it when they're atthe hospital.
How many beds are allocated forinduction?

(42:51):
That can shift because, if theyhave a lot of spontaneous
laborers coming in, those arethe ones that are going to get
the beds.
And so I've even had clientswho, called in the morning of
their induction and were told,oh, sorry you're gonna have to
call back in six hours.

Oh wow.

Exie (43:10):
Yeah.
If people just don't understand,and then the holidays also play
into it because yeah, if theycan schedule that time off and
get outta town with theirfamilies and who can blame them
because we're all human and weall want that time.

Completely.

Exie (43:23):
but I feel like him saying to you I just helped deliver to
other babies while you've beendoing this.
Was a little not a little, a lotcondescending to you and not at
all respecting of the process,which, seems like did a little
bit of an emotional thing toyou.

you're absolutely right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And thanks for seeing that.
Yes.
I felt like I was failing atmotherhood already and like I
had a great pregnancy and I feltlike I caught this, like I was
born, I know I was born to be amom, and so I was like.
I was like, oh my gosh, am Imessing this up?
Am I like, what's wrong with methat I can't do this?

(44:04):
Because in my mind, I've doneeverything right, in quotes,
right?
And this guy is I've alreadydelivered two other, babies and,
and then it's what's wrong withme?
I am like, I have a greathealthy body.
Like I've done everything.
And then just being left on thebed where everybody was focused
not on me there.
Like I said, I had an amazingnurse.
She was focused on me, but it'slike everybody else in the room

(44:28):
was just swirling around.
And maybe some were focused onme, but I just had no, it didn't
translate to my humanexperience.
And yeah, I just, it was likeeverything was happening around
me and not being tenderly caredfor.
I realized was really importantfor me in my next, if I was

(44:48):
gonna do this again.
And really frankly, I was doneafter they cleaned up the room
stitched me up and it was justJohn and I and Lucas.
I was like, I will never do thisagain.
That was awful.
And I'm like, I'm glad we haveour son, but I'm done.

(45:08):
This is awful.
And I'm like, I can't do thatagain to myself.
And I had no idea how heavythose feelings were, the density
of them.
And that carried with me throughthe first few years of being a
mom.
And I had postpartum depression.

(45:29):
A bit of anxiety that underlinedthe depression at the time.
And we didn't know what washappening.
And again, like my husband hashis own business, like just
getting ground off the, reallyformulating itself.
I just remember like being inthe parent child mode of our
relationship of just being like,do we have can I go get diapers?

(45:52):
And my husband's yes, go getdiapers you don't have to ask
me, but I just went into thischildlike mode in our
relationship.
That I couldn't like mother, mykid, I did not have a great
breastfeeding experience and sohe was breastfed and formula
fed.
It was just, whatever.
My mom wasn't able to be the,her physical presence was

(46:15):
around, but she really didn'tprovide the kind of support I
needed to, to really accept thespace of life and to understand
the dynamics that are happening.
And she actually.
She actually encouraged adisconnect between my husband
and I, which was really sad.
Where she's he's gone all thetime.
I'm like he's working so that Ican be home.

(46:37):
Like we see this bigger pictureand she didn't see it and she
felt like I was being left.
And I'm like, no, I'm on boardfor this.
This is our agreement.
Like I don't have a problem withit, but she did.
And that projected on me, so Ijust speak to that because all
these voices that come from ouroutside world can create an
impact on us.
And so sometimes it's reallynecessary to bring in other

(47:00):
people that don't have anemotional bias to you, as the
mother or family, that's beinggrown and that they can see
things and connect dots in waysthat, like just speaking from my
experience with my mom wasprojecting her own life, and how
she felt abandoned as a new mom,when my dad was working and,

(47:23):
doing his duties right, becausethat's, to not go, dissect it or
anything, but just doing what hefelt like he was supposed to do.
It was go to work, come home,Know, type of thing.
So,

Exie (47:32):
And the time period was very different

completely.

Exie (47:35):
were at the time that you were born, 1981,

Yeah.

Exie (47:40):
that were, that was their role.
In this in this weird spacewhere working outside of the
home was sometimes the goal

Yeah.

Exie (47:51):
for some women.
So then motherhood for many ofthem removed that goal because
the systems there, the systemsare still not great in place,
but they're better than theyused to be.
That time, there was no systemin place to save those women's,
who were having a rockytransition because of all of

(48:13):
the, the societal and culturalexpectations.
Plus it sounds was your momaware, because you ended up
really with two medicalcomplications.
The baby had a medicalcomplication The meconium and
I've seen births where there'sbeen meconium and it's been
like, okay, baby is born,everything's fine, and everybody
else leaves the room.
Then there have been situationswhere they're like, baby's first

(48:34):
apgar is not what we would liketo see, so we're going to do
some special care.
But then on top of that, you hadthe hemorrhage as well.
So, did she know that all ofthat had happened?

That's a great question.
I think so.
I wanna say, I think so, andshe.
Is also the kind of person that,you know, kinda like what I said
in the beginning of and we'removing on from that.
It, like it doesn't exist.
So she has a tendency to dothat.

(49:07):
And I believe she, she probablydid that at this time too, it's
over, it's done and you're home.
Everybody's okay moving on.
And we're, I was still digestingemotionally and mentally all of
it.

Exie (49:23):
Yeah.

Which is why sharing birth stories is so
beneficial for all women.

Exie (49:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think highlighting thebenefits of having emotional
support at that time, somebodywho could acknowledge how that
experience impacted you andJohn, because as an observer,

yes.

Exie (49:43):
If he wasn't prepared.
I've been fortunately on veryfew births where a manual
extraction of the placenta hadto be done.
I've been on a handful of birthswhere postpartum hemorrhage
needed to be managed.
And I understand what'shappening.
So for a birth partner who's soemotionally invested and doesn't

(50:04):
understand what's happening,they can many times walk away
feeling birth trauma themselves.
And

Yes.

Exie (50:12):
like you said, that those emotions, if they're left
unresolved or unrecognized, willstart to pop back up again.
They lay the foundation for yourearly parenthood transition, and
then they come again the nextpregnancy, if you have one,
which you were determined notto, but then you did.

Than I did.
Yes.
Yeah, you're absolutely right.
Yeah.
And it was like a slow, it itwas like a slow fog that crept
into our lives of the depressionand anxiety and then just the
external factors that werehappening in our relationship
of, John growing his businessand creating more predictable
income.

(50:51):
'Cause you pay employees firstbefore you pay yourself as a
business owner and so it's likethe just finances and we know
how stressful money is and howmuch power we give it in our
society is.
That was like a constant ebb andflow for like the first decade
of our marriage and life andYeah.
Yeah.

(51:11):
And I think it was so okay tonot get into it too much.
So we had another complicationwith our son when he was four
months old.
He almost died and we took himto U of M and they saved his
life.
There were literally twohospitals in Michigan that would
be able to save his life.
We had no idea going into itlike it was this serious.

(51:33):
And and we chose one of thosehospitals, which is incredible.
And and that was actually such ablessing for John and I to
recalibrate and get on the samepage of what the heck just
happened?

(51:54):
And we're in this together, likewe're, we wanna stay married,
'cause like the highest divorcerate is like from being like
babies being born to like agefive, I think for, the divorce
rate is 51%, but then thehighest rate of those people
getting divorced is like thoseearly years of life.
And we're like, we wanna staymarried.
Like, how are we gonna staymarried and process all this and

(52:18):
not live in this kind of stressEverything.
And so it was such a blessing.
One of those scary moments ofwhere I thought, I was like, oh
my gosh, now I'm gonna be a momto now a woman who loses their
child.
And this is my story.
And for whatever reason, I wasalready accepting that and

(52:38):
downloading it when the all thewhite coats were around my son.
And I was like, this is mystory.
And I'm like, I can't believethis.
This is my story.
Just sitting there I can'tbelieve this is me.
I have to lose my son.
This is me.
And I was, I'm, I don't like touse the word fortunate because I
think that everything happensthe way that it needs to happen

(53:00):
for everyone's growth.
And, so for our story, he didn'tdie.
And he's super healthy and finetoday, but we had that really
impactful moment in time thathelped us recalibrate our
marriage, see where I was notfeeling good about myself and to
get the help that I needed andthe support that I needed.

(53:21):
And, I was still one and donethough.
I was not gonna do that again.

Exie (53:25):
Yeah.
Gosh, I'm so sorry that you hadall of those experiences that,

Yeah.

Exie (53:32):
one of them is a lot, but you had three very major events
tied to this experience.

Yes.
Yeah.
And I really believe, thank you.
Yeah.
And I really believe, like menot seeing my son getting sick
in front of my eyes.
'cause it wasn't it wasn't likesomething externally happened to
him.
He just literally was gettingsick from the inside and, so
they thought he had leukemia.
He doesn't, and like me notseeing him, being depleted, like

(54:07):
all the things and it's like,why, what is going on?
And it's also one of thecatalysts of why I'm so
passionate about helping momslisten to their intuition.
Because my intuition wasscreaming at me, but also very
repressed because I didn't havea lot of trust in myself because
I had my mom over here who wastelling me other things, and I
was just like, caught in themiddle.

(54:28):
And I know my mom was doing thebest she could.
I've for forgiven her.
We've moved on and it was astory that needed to happen for
all of our lives so that it waslike, it's just human being.
Human is not it's, it it's notcoasting.
It's messy.
It's up and down.
And I believe we came and chose,the people in our lives for the
lessons that were learning to bethe essence that we are.

(54:51):
And I was just like, oh my gosh,this is it.
But anyways, so yeah.
So yeah, so I was able to likereally realign myself, my
relationship with my husband,like we're in it, we're
together, we're online and butstill one and done.
I was like, that was good.
Don't need to do this again.

(55:12):
And one of my best friends fromgrowing up, we've known each
other since we were 10, butwe're in and out of each other's
lives.
'cause she had her kids waybefore I did living a whole
nother different life.
And she came out, she wasvisiting me one day and it was
probably after Lucas's firstbirthday or so, and or maybe
before.
And she was like,'cause she hastwo children and she's Elise,

(55:34):
she's I know you.
And she's my kids are in school.
And there's a difference betweenthe kids that.
And the parents the familystructure of the singleton kids
and the kids that have siblingsand the siblings that are closer
in age.
And she's you have kids that arecloser in age when you go on
family vacations, when you dothings as a family like they

(55:58):
have a playmate built in.
And she's granted, siblingsdon't always get along.
She's you cannot guarantee that.
However, there is this dynamicthat happens in households that
they will have a partner Eithergo against parents or whatever
to play together so that youdon't have to constantly engage.
And she knew me because I need alot of alone time.

(56:22):
And I'm a little bitself-centered.
I come from two narcissists,like I totally get it.
And she just planted the seed.
She's you might wanna haveanother kid.
And my mom always told me, mymom is deeply intuitive.
And she's you're gonna have agirl.
She's you're not done.
She's you're gonna have a girl.
And I was like, Nope, I'm done.
And'cause she's you're gonnarectify our maternal line.

(56:44):
Like she, she was like, you'regonna do it.
And I was like I'll do itthrough adoption.
'cause John and I, even when wewere dating, always talked about
adoption.
We'll adopt, that'll be okay.
But once she planted that seedand she's no two births are
alike.
Which I knew but couldn't knowin my heart of hearts.
And she's the second birth willbe different than the first.

(57:05):
You've learned so much.
You're not the woman you werebefore.
Pretty much everything I say toother moms, like she said to me
in like a nutshell.
And she's just sleep on it.
And she's just think about it.
And she's I think that you'll behappier as a woman and as a mom
if you give Lucas somebody elseto be with, and

Exie (57:25):
This is your friend saying this.

This is my friend.
Yeah.

Exie (57:27):
Okay.

Yeah.
Yeah.
And and I was like, okay.
And, we're really good friendswhere it wasn't like I'm telling
you to just it was completelyout of love and out, out of
knowing me so well, and, soprobably a few months later I
was like, alright John, I can dothis and it's gonna be
different.
And he's yeah, it is.

(57:48):
He's we're not doing what we didbefore.
So he was born in the end of2009.
Lily was born in the beginningof 2012.
And I went with the midwives atU of M because that was our
non-negotiable with my husband,was like, no matter where I go,
I have to birth in a hospital.
And that's just, the agreed uponthings and especially'cause

(58:08):
hemorrhaging and Lucas meconium,all the crap that happened.
So he was like, you gotta birthin a hospital.
Beyond that, whatever whateveryou want, let's make it happen.
And he's most importantly, he'swe are hiring a nanny, a
babysitter, somebody to be,'cause we, I don't even think we
had the framework for postpartumdoula at that time where he was

(58:30):
like, we're hiring someone to bewith you, so that you're not
alone with a toddler and a baby.
And he was like, I don't carewhat I have to do to make that
happen.
He's I'm gonna make that happen.
He's that kind of guy.
He's he's a generator.
More like, how do I generatemore income to make this happen?
That's how his mind processes.
And so he's I'll make thathappen.

(58:51):
He's don't even worry about it.
He's we'll figure it out.
But he's you can't be alone.
And I was like, all so Iactually hired, a home birth
midwife to be my birth doula.
So I was really stacking thedeck.

Exie (59:02):
Yeah.

she was very willing.
And her name's Nicole White, sheis one of the co-founders of
Birth Detroit who built thefirst freestanding birth center
in the city and the first blackcenter, black led birth center
in the state.
And so that was 2012 and she washere in Michigan for some time.
And then shortly after the birthof my daughter she started

(59:26):
traveling.
I think I don't know where shewent, but maybe to Africa to
help teach midwifery in Africaor maybe another continent.
I could be getting it wrong.
And so we did like a crashcourse again because it's
amazing what you forget inbetween births, even if it's
just a few years or two years.
And we just need to make surewe're prioritizing the right

(59:46):
things and and that sort ofthing.
And then when I started Labor, Ithought I was having Braxton
Hicks because quote unquote, shewas early, so So I was like, oh,
it just must be Braxton Hicks,like it's okay.
And it was also Super BowlSunday and we were going to I

(01:00:06):
have these kids on like eventgames.

Exie (01:00:09):
you have a knack for that.

Elise Bowerman (01:00:11):
I really do.
Yes.
And so Super Bowl Sunday, we'regoing to our friend's house and
they do a great party and I justwanna see everybody.
And I felt so great in mypregnancy.
Like I just want everybody tosee me.
Like I'm amazing.
And so I'm thinking it's BraxtonHicks.
We have a dog and our son thathave to be taken care of.

(01:00:31):
And Lucas was with us at theparty'cause they have kids and
we're sitting there watching theSuper Bowl and it was the year
that Madonna played and I'mlike, or did the halftime show.
And I was like, we have to stayfor halftime.
I cannot leave.
That's when I realized I waslike, probably in labor.
Really in denial.
Deep denial in here.
And and I just had my husbandstarting to time my

(01:00:51):
contractions.
I would sit on the floor wherethe pregnant woman belongs, in
my mind is on the floor on ahard surface, sitting up against
the edge of the couch.
And then my husband was sittingon the couch and I would squeeze
his hand when a contractionbegan, and then I would squeeze
it when it ended.
And he's they're all gettingpretty close.

(01:01:13):
But I was like, managing it justfine.
I was like, okay, we got time.
We're good.
And I was like, but we have tostay for the halftime.
Nobody knows, that I'm like, inlabor.
And so Madonna performed, shedoes her thing and I'm like,
sweet, we gotta go.
And so because everyone's movingaround after the halftime show

(01:01:34):
and i'm like, we're going homeand then we're going to U of M.
I'm like, I'm gonna have thisbaby.
And they're like, what?
And everybody's are you serious?
I'm like, yeah this baby's, Ithink it is coming tonight or
early tomorrow morning.
And so we left, we drove or wecame back to our house again in
Novi, and called my dad to pickup my dog and my son, best

(01:01:56):
grandpa on the planet, or papa.
He's lovingly called Papa, likesingle, no one else is helping
him.
This guy, he's amazing.
And he comes at 10 o'clock atnight, picks up Lucas and our
dog, and goes back and John, Iwas like, you go sleep.
I'm like, let me just see how Iprogress here.

(01:02:19):
And by then I was like, moaning.
Which is my cue of we need to goand, because I really wanted to
make sure, what I learned withthe first is don't go to the
hospital too early.
There is a ways to go and thenour bodies shut down, or, they
stall for protection.
And so I was like we need to goand we have a 30 minute drive to

(01:02:42):
U of M and feeling every singlebump of our Detroit roads.

Exie (01:02:48):
That's what our last guest said!

Yes, exactly.
That might be a theme for a lotof the stories in this podcast
actually especially when you'regoing during transition or very
active labor, right beforetransition, so I was definitely
in very active labor, probablytransition, going on those bumpy
roads and thinking I'm gonna bethis mom that has her kid on the

(01:03:14):
side of the road.
I was like, I don't know whatI'm gonna do here.
We got to U of M, thankfully, Idon't know what happened'cause
it's a blur, right?
I was in the zone the securityguy came out, or I started
walking in like hobbling,probably holding, like with my
hand, on my vulva.
Just get inside the building.
That's all I'm telling myself.
Just get inside the building.

(01:03:36):
And he comes, with a wheelchair.
And I was like, thank you.
And the poor guy, he's probablyso young and I'm like, and he's
you're in labor.
I was like, yep.
And I can't talk at all.
So I know I'm deep in birth andI'm like, yep.
And he's like trying to talk tome.
'cause he's nervous and I'mlike, you don't have to talk to

(01:03:56):
me.
I'm like, look, I'm just gonnamake some sounds.
And I'm like, I just, I'm like,I just gotta get to the floor.
And you have to go to triage andthey're checking me in and I'm
like, here.
And I'm like, I just, I can'ttalk or anything.
My husband's parking and I'mlike, just do whatever you need
to do.

(01:04:16):
And by the time they wheeled meinto the room, John gets there
and they already started thetub, which was so nice.
And they got things going, theroom ready.
And she's okay, do you wanna,why don't you stand up and you
can make your way over to thetub?
And I just I'm literally doingit physically, like where I was

(01:04:37):
like, oh my goodness, I don'tthink I can stand up.
And she's do you feel rectalpressure?
And I was like, yeah.
And she is okay.
She's let's see if we can justget you out of the chair, and
into the bed and let's just seewhat happens.
And I was like, all so she's youdon't have to worry about the
tub.

(01:04:57):
I'm like, okay.
I am like, I don't think I canget there.
'Cause my mind is I'm supposedto go over there.
And she's Nope nope.
And redirecting me.
And by the time I got on thebed, all I remember is I was
ready to push and I was in thefamiliar position of sitting up
really tall, my nurse on oneside, John on the other side, oh

(01:05:18):
and our poor Nicole, we reallydropped the ball on her, Like I,
I forget, like she was in themidst of it all, so I don't know
when John called her because wejust didn't think it was gonna
be as fast.
The stories we tell ourselves.
And John calls Nicole atwhatever time.
Lily was born at three in themorning.
It's the middle of the nightprobably at one.
We didn't give her lots of time.
And typically for us birthdoulas, we are like at least two

(01:05:40):
hours notice.
At least if not three.
Let me know you're in labor.
Didn't let her know I was inlabor.
'cause I was really into deepdenial, all the things.
And so we're like, we're goingto the hospital.
Oh, I do remember John beinglike, we're going the hospital.
She's right now?
He's yeah.
And he's Elise is in labor.
And so she gets there for likemaybe 20 minutes before Lily's

(01:06:01):
born.
And so it's the nurse John, andthen our midwife is standing
like.
What feels like a million milesaway, like giving me so much
space, like lovinglyspaciousness, like literally
holding me, holding the room.
And, I don't know, she couldhave been like just at my feet,

(01:06:22):
but it felt like she'switnessing me.
She's seen me.
And I also named in my birthintentions, my plan of I need to
hear encouraging words.
I learned that with my first, Ineed to know, I need to be
cheered, I need to be rooted forthat.
I'm doing everything right.
And I, in my mind, I'm mooinglike a cow.

(01:06:44):
Everybody can hear me down thisdown the hallway.
This moo of a woman, this cowwoman.
And When it's all said and done,like before she comes out I just
lifted my eyes open and justtook in the room, and I just saw
everyone looking at me in themost like, curious and

(01:07:06):
compassionate way that I waslike like I felt like on stage,
but not not a freak show.

Exie (01:07:14):
Yeah.

And they just gave me space and at one point
they brought a mirror for me tolook at the Lily crowning.
And then I felt her.
And then literally as soon as Ifelt her, everything, that's how
I describe the feeling that itwas.
It's and she just came out

Exie (01:07:36):
Uhhuh,

and onto my chest right away, which was a
new experience because Lucas wastaken across the room

Exie (01:07:43):
right?

I was like, really an utter disbelief of
this is it.
Like I did it.
I'm like, I'm done almost.
And I'm like, oh my gosh.
Like I was literally indisbelief of how quickly it
happened, but also how notscared I was and and everything.
And it was just really peaceful.
It was just really wonderful.

(01:08:04):
I can't describe it other thanthat.
And also very deeply euphoricbecause it wasn't an emergency
situation.
I didn't hemorrhage.
Like we let the cord pulse andthere was no rushing and it was
like, oh, this is what it'sabout.
And then, everybody talked methrough what was going on and

(01:08:26):
even the massaging of my abdomenjust making sure like I was able
to deliver, to birth theplacenta whole, which was really
cool.
And I wish I had a picture ofthat.
And it just felt like this iswhat people are, this is what
women are talking about, likethe power of birth.
And really, for me, it was areclamation of myself, of that

(01:08:50):
opportunity which I'm so glad Igave to myself to, to know that
nothing is wrong with me.
It was the support I wasreceiving, the environment that
I was in, all the things.
And then two, two things that Iwanna like end kinda where I'm
thinking of ending here is, oneis after my birth one of the

(01:09:12):
nurses, I don't know how muchtime had passed, but a nurse
came over to me and she was justlike, thank you so much for
letting me be here with you andsupport your birth.
And I was like, oh.
I'm like, thank you.
Thank you for supporting me.
I'm like, this is what I needed.
And she's no.
She's really?
She's I've never seen auninterrupted physiological

(01:09:34):
birth.
And I was like, what?
I know.
It's it's like intellectually weknow that they, the nurses, the
physicians don't, get to see alot of really fulfilled
physiological births from startto finish.
But I was just like, oh my gosh,like this is really impactful.
Like I was just downloading allthis is really impactful for her

(01:09:57):
and it's like really impactfulfor me.
And I'm like, now she can carrythis to other births and maybe
her own one day, I don't know, Icouldn't even tell you what she
looked like or how old she wasor anything, but she had never
witnessed anything like that.
She was like, I didn't know thatcould exist.
And she was like, thank you somuch for letting me be in the
room with you.
And I was like so deeply honoredand floored all at the same

(01:10:20):
time.
And and that really was thefinal catalyst for me to know
that a big part of my purposehere is to work with women
becoming mothers and to helpnormalize the physiological
process that our bodies innatelyknow what to do with the proper
encouragement and coaching.

(01:10:41):
Just like anybody with, to run amarathon, to do anything big and
bold, that's an initiationprocess, right?
Everybody has coaches foreverything.
And why don't we have thenormalcy in the birth space of a
very natural process, but oftencomes unnatural, just like
breastfeeding.
We often have to be coached,understand what is normal, what

(01:11:01):
is healthy, what is, what can bedone, what is a proactive way,
what is a responsive way, allthese things.
And so just her saying that waslike, okay, I don't need to do
something else with my life.
Like this is really like this.
That was my calling because likeat that time I was like, am I

(01:11:21):
just gonna be a prenatal yogateacher?
Is that enough for me?
That type of thing.
Because in the yoga community,it's not really celebrated or
cared for, which is why mostyoga studios don't have a
prenatal or a postnatal yogaclass, right?
And it's true.
And so it is community led andoriented, but the moms are often
missed.

(01:11:41):
And so that is part of mymission is in my perfect world,
every yoga studio would have atleast one prenatal yoga class
and one postpartum yoga class toat least start there and build
from there.
Anyway, so that was my personalmotivation of my internal
fulfillment of more than a mom.
And then my husband, he waslike, just knowing that Nicole

(01:12:06):
was on her way to be with usgave him so much peace of mind.

Exie (01:12:14):
Yeah.

Because people again, get caught up in the
money of what you invest in yoursupport, help and whatever.
But he's even if she hadn't beenable to show up, just knowing
that she was on her way, she wasgonna be there for you, there
for me, there for Lily.
It was everything, the peace ofmind that her energy of what we
invested in was looking out forus and not affiliated with any

(01:12:38):
hospital system oradministration.

Exie (01:12:41):
Yeah.

He was like, I'd pay that over and over again
just to know we have somebody wecan call or, reach out to or
show up, And see what'shappening and taking in the
bigger picture.
Yeah.

Exie (01:12:55):
That's a really fascinating admission that he
made because I think that's avery, cost is a very big
motivator for people.
Especially when they have all ofthese other new expenses that
come along with having a baby.
And if their insurance onlypartially pays for the birth,

(01:13:15):
then they've gotta shell outmoney for that.
Yeah, the emotional aspect ofit, and I think that's also I
always say that support is a pieconsisting of several different
aspects of it.
And some families the biggerpiece of that pie is going to be
the physical.
Some families, the bigger pieceof the pie is gonna be

(01:13:36):
educational, informationaltranslating the medical speak
into what they can understand sothey can make informed
decisions.
But the emotional part is thepiece that oftentimes people
don't recognize as a huge aspectof birth doula support.
I always tell my clients,anybody can learn physical

(01:13:58):
comfort techniques.

Yeah.

Exie (01:14:00):
they're not that hard to learn.
They're sometimes challenging toapply over many hours,

Mm-hmm.

Exie (01:14:05):
which is why having a doula physically there with you
to tag off back and forth sothat the partner's body is
sustained.
But the emotional aspect of it,just being able, I think back to
your experience with your son,and I think if there had just
been somebody there to explainto

Mm-hmm.

Exie (01:14:24):
him maybe what was happening,

Yeah.

Exie (01:14:27):
maybe he wouldn't have carried so much on his shoulders
walking away from thatexperience.

Yes.
I completely agree.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that, and especiallybeing a birth doula now, like
being in the rooms and like yousaid, the different pieces of
our own toolkits that show upfor the families in the way that
they need to utilize our skillsand what we know is birth doulas

(01:14:57):
really provide the humanexperience because let the
physicians, let the midwives,the nurses, the pediatricians,
everybody who's coming into theroom do their work because they
know how to read the charts.
They know how to do all thethings, they can do stitches,
they can do whatever they needto another, poke whatever needs
to be done.

(01:15:18):
And then having a person who'sorienting to the human
experience of what all thesepieces are doing, helping the
mom and dad understand what'sgoing on and to help direct.
Because when they're doing theirpieces, all these trained
professionals are trained foremergency situations and worst
case scenarios, right?
That's what they lean in theirmind, unfortunately.

(01:15:39):
But that also keeps people safeto a degree.
And again, it could be rescuedto help orient if the baby's in
distress, dad, I'm gonna staywith mom.
You go walk over to baby andstart talking to baby and be
with baby.
If you wanna say baby's name outloud in the room right now,
please do.
Your baby can hear you.
I'll just bring in morehumanness.

(01:16:00):
I've personally done that in oneof the rooms and as soon as I
was acknowledging the baby'sconsciousness everyone, the
midwife, the pediatrician, likeeverybody just there was like
this millisecond of a pause andlike stare at me.
I was like, oh shit.
And then, because sometimes mymouth can be a little bit big,

(01:16:21):
but then sometimes I hold myselftoo far back where, I just play
on this dichotomy And I waslike, dad, I'm like, talk to
baby.
Go, go over there and talk tobaby.
And then the pediatrician'syeah, come over here.
It's'cause they're so focused ontheir work and we want them to
be focused on their work, butthere's such value of having
this other person that's seeingall the moving parts and the
value of them Helping themunderstand and or giving them,

(01:16:45):
ideas to ask questions, ifthere's misunderstanding
happening or just unininformation.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I just wanna go back to thefinancial piece because it's
such a huge piece.
I'm sure I know that you see andI see for reasons to not do
things and stuff like that is,at the time, again, we were

(01:17:06):
growing our family, my husband'sbusiness, our insurance was
garbage.
And we paid$10,000 out of ourpocket, or the bill was$10,000
to birth at U of M.
I didn't have a port in me, mychild, my, my children are
completely un poked.
And my child, my children, Lilywas with me the whole time.

(01:17:29):
And we were out in maybe 28hours, like a little over 24
hours.
So we were there for such ashort period of time, absolutely
no intervention, nomedicalization of anything.
And that was$10,000.
And my husband's we just livewith this bill.

(01:17:50):
We live with paying a hundredbucks a month.
He calls, and is I can't pay$10,000.
And it's not sitting in thecorner of our house here and, I
can pay this and whatever, andit was like a hundred bucks a
month.
And it's like relearning money,beliefs or beliefs about money
and how we can actually be morein control of it and have more

(01:18:14):
authority of our own authorityand power.
And I realized it looksdifferent for everyone, but one
of our ways was to be like,okay, we live with this payment.
This monthly payment isn'tputting us out and we're just
gonna deal with it until, eitherit's paid off or something else
happens and then it's moving onand not harboring the burden of

(01:18:35):
oh, we were only there for 24hours and nobody even did
anything.
That story like that is not partof our story, like at all.
But I feel like it's importantfor me to say because it's what
we were comfortable andconfident in dealing with for
the experience, for the kind ofsupport that I really wanted at

(01:18:57):
this birth.

Exie (01:18:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Does that make sense?

Exie (01:19:00):
It absolutely does.
And I think, there was a newsreport recently, like earlier
this week, where they talkedabout the average cost of
weddings.
And So the average cost ofweddings for Gen Z or Gen X was
like I think it was somewherearound like 24,000.
I never even came close to that.
And I'm a proud Gen Xer.

Me neither.

Exie (01:19:21):
with millennials, it jumped another$10,000.

Yeah.

Exie (01:19:27):
And then with Gen Z, it's come back down again and Gen Z
brides based on this poll orwhatever they did the most money
is spent on the venue and

The experience.

Exie (01:19:41):
yeah, the least amount of money is spent on the dress,
interestingly enough.
And I think that's becausebrides today are finding other
places to purchase them.
They're recognizing it's a dressfor one day, so instead

Yeah.

Exie (01:19:55):
of buying a$10,000 dress, they're finding'em for hundreds
of dollars in used stores orwhatever.

Mm-hmm.

Exie (01:20:01):
But it was, it's interesting that you talk about
the amount of time that youspent in the hospital.
When you compare that to howmuch it costs to rent a venue
for just a few hours, or whenyou compare the cost of having
birth doula support orpostpartum doula support,
childbirth education.

(01:20:23):
When you compare that to theamount that people are not even
second thinking about when itcomes to the venue of their
wedding reception, it reallykind of puts into a stark
contrast where our societal andcultural views are of what we
value.

Yeah.

Exie (01:20:44):
We do not value birth experiences the way we value
weddings.
And like you said earlier, howmany percentage of people
divorce?
So you're spending all thismoney on this wedding and you're
not even married for yourlifetime, but you are a parent

(01:21:04):
for your lifetime.
And like we talked aboutearlier, that experience
imprints on you.
I'm not going to propose to knowhow you feel, but I would
imagine that going back intoNovi Hospital, as opposed to
going back to U of M hospital asa, just as a human being or as a

(01:21:29):
birth professional, there's adifferent visceral feeling
inside of you, I would guess.

Yeah, you are absolutely right.
Yeah, because I have, I've hadto go back to Novi.
Yeah.
It's completely different.
And it's sad because they do alot of great work at Providence
Novi, but from my experience inthe lens that, yeah, it's deeply
held within, coming back to, weare feelers first.

Exie (01:21:53):
Yeah.
And the other interesting point,that you made was about the
nurse at U of M and how she hadnot ever seen physiologic birth
before yours.
And that is probably the mostprofound statement out of a
healthcare professional becausethey are not taught it normally

(01:22:19):
looks like, and if you see X, Y,or Z, this is how you would
react.
Right?
They're not taught, they're notgiven that baseline of normalcy
on which to view patients andstart treating patients.
Yeah.
It's definitely improving.
I can say that.
'Cause you had Lily in 2012,

Yep.
Yes.

Exie (01:22:42):
So, in those 13 years we've seen facilities and
healthcare professionals make avery positive adjustment in
their approaches and in eventheir offerings in the hospitals
to help support that more,normal type of birth with the
mom at the center of it, andthen the baby when the baby is

(01:23:05):
born.
But I think you still get thoseproviders who, you know, they,
they are just on that clinicalmental track and they're
looking, they're like waiting,anticipating something to go
wrong.

Absolutely.
Yeah.
And I think that's because theyprobably had, whether in their
training or who mentored them,you know, it's because it's all
the system, right?
The system is a long, exhaustivesystem, and it is just that
ripple down.
And of course, and I think younamed it earlier, is, OBGYNs are

(01:23:43):
trained surgeons first, And thenthey choose who they want to
work on and what group of peoplethey want to service.
And so no matter what theiroutlook is, that baby will come
out either way.
You know, if the mom wants to goand have a vaginal birth, that's

(01:24:03):
fine.
I can get her, I can get thebaby out C-section.
And so for them, theirmentality, which I completely
understand and I think you dotoo, like we have this really
deep respect and understandingfor how they have been
conditioned, to be a healer'cause that is essentially their
role as a healer.
But they are really exposed toworst case scenario, more than

(01:24:23):
not, which is why nurses, andphysicians are kind of like the
toughest patients.
You know, or clients that we canhave because they're like
worried about this worst casescenario.
And I'm like, you're nowherenear them.
You're good.
But they don't know, you know?
And like, even as moms, like Ihave friends that are nurses
that are moms and they don'tknow what to do with a healthy
baby, right?
'cause they might work withunhealthy like babies that

(01:24:45):
struggle to survive.
And so it's like actuallyhealthy is more common than not.
And we gotta flip the script.

Exie (01:24:53):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
We have to remember that a lotof these providers are working
in systems that aredisrespectful to them as human
beings.

Completely.

Exie (01:25:04):
They are working very, very long shifts.
They do not have any support.
If they have a traumaticexperience as a provider, they
oftentimes have to go from oneroom into the next, put on a
happy face, and try to act likeeverything is fine to focus on

(01:25:26):
the mom in that room, and thenthey're expected to go home.
with their families or theirfriends or whatever the case may
be, and come back for the nextlong shift, the next day.
And there is no, or very, verylittle recognition of the impact
that secondary trauma orvicarious trauma is having on

(01:25:47):
these professionals.
So as a birth supporter whetherthat's in my childbirth
education or my birth prepclasses, I do try to impress on
my clients.
Some of this is just part ofbirthing in a hospital today.
I had a client who, I looked ather after everything that she

(01:26:08):
said that she wanted, what herphilosophy of her ideal birth
was.
And I said to her, have youconsidered looking into home
birth?
Because everything that you wantwould actually fit that
environment much more than ahospital.
And she said well, my insurancewon't cover a home birth, so I'm

(01:26:30):
stuck with the hospital.
I said, okay, then, you have tolet go of some of this tightly

held (01:26:38):
I don't want this.
I don't want this, I don't wantthis.
Because you automatically haveto understand that when you're
entering that system, they havecertain protocols.
And yes, you can decline them.
You absolutely can decline them,but know that you might have to
fight for that.

(01:27:00):
And how willing are you to dothat when you are in labor?
I'll back you up either way, butjust know what you're going into
and, these providers, they wanttheir clients, their patients to
have good experiences.
I mean, generally speaking, thehealthcare providers are not

(01:27:20):
wishing ill on their patientsthat's not how they are when
they walk into a room.
But we have to recognize thatthey are carrying their own
traumas personally, theirtraumas professionally, for
sure.
Any provider that was providingbirth care and pregnancy care
during the pandemic has trauma.

Yeah.

Exie (01:27:39):
They absolutely have trauma, and much of it is
unresolved and unrecognized.
Because why?
Because the system is abusiness.

Mm-hmm.

Exie (01:27:46):
It's a business ultimately, and they are
employees or contractors of thatbusiness and are treated that
way.
So I think it's very importantfor us to recognize that, and
gift that you gave that nursewas truly and I'm sure,
impactful on how she walksthrough of her experiences

(01:28:12):
professionally and personally.
And I'm sure she's told herfriends.

Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you for naming all that.
It's so important to acknowledgeand recognize, like you said and
especially when like EMTs, likeemergency responders,
firefighters, police officers,you know, they often receive the
mental health support, aftertraumatic events and things like
that.
And where the medicalizationcommunity, the physicians, the

(01:28:41):
nurses, it's not.
It's not a well-oiled machine ofreceiving that kind of support
and acknowledgement of whatthey've gone through.
You're absolutely right.
They're going from one room tothe next and like any of us, and
you've been a child educator forso long it's very easy for us
who are in the space doing thething.

(01:29:02):
Remembering that this issomebody's first time and they
don't know what they don't knowand, treating them like they're
brand new every, you know, everytime, so to speak.
And there is a lot of unsaidthings that physicians
especially have to deal with tobe great in their fields and to

(01:29:25):
be leaders'cause we need them.

Exie (01:29:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
Your situation when you gavebirth to Lucas could have been a
very different outcome had younot had such skilled
professionals in the room to dowhat they needed to do for both
of you and so recognizing thatis important but it's a balance

(01:29:47):
hopefully, anybody who listensto this episode with both of
your experiences, which are sodifferent, But both in a
hospital, Can recognize thatthe, the safety net of having
skilled professionals,especially if you have

(01:30:08):
underlying issues, maybegestational diabetes, none of
which you had, but any of thosethings,

Right.

Exie (01:30:15):
Which we know those rates are much higher now than they
were back when you had yourkids.
That having that safety net, weneed to be respectful and happy
that we have that, but alsorecognizing that hospitals can
be really good places toexperience almost what you would
have in a home birth situationwith that safety net of just in

(01:30:37):
case.

Completely.
I believe it's absolutelypossible.
I had that experience with Lilyand it is completely possible,
and like you said, you have toknow what you're up against and
how the system in place operatesso that you know what you're
willing to advocate for and alsowhat you're recognizing, I don't
know how much time they're gonnagive me if my water breaks or

(01:31:01):
like whatever.
But gathering as muchinformation as you can about how
that a hospital operates.
And also, I'm just gonna putthis in there too.
I've had moms that happen to beby the hospital that they would
like to birth at and it mightnot have been in their
insurance.
And'cause insurance, it allfigures itself out, right?
When we don't give the power, weare all deeply conditioned to

(01:31:23):
have insurance and that's awhole thing.
And women birth on vacation,

Exie (01:31:29):
Mm-hmm.

they birth, you know, I just happened to be by
this hospital and'cause this iswhere I want to birth, if you're
willing to do that, do that.
We don't have to be confined towhat somebody else, another
system in place is telling uswhat our limitations are.
In the box that we have to bein.
Yeah, so I'm just gonna say thatthere, I've had local moms that

(01:31:53):
have just been by the hospitalthat they wanted to be by for
the birth and the insurance, itall shakes out, it all figures
itself out.
If you don't give it a lot ofpower and you're an authority of
making those decisions,

Exie (01:32:07):
Yeah.
Because it's illegal for anemergency department to turn
away somebody who shows up atthe hospital.

they can't turn you away.

Exie (01:32:14):
Yeah.

Yeah.

Exie (01:32:15):
same thing with a laboring person.
You can't turn them away ifthey're actually in labor.
So yeah, that's an excellentpoint.

Women birth everywhere.
Half, it's

Exie (01:32:23):
is true.

Like you can be on vacation in Florida, like
wherever in Hawaii.
Oh.
Just happened to be here.
Can't believe it.
I was 39 weeks pregnant.

Exie (01:32:35):
Yeah, but again, that shows a highly attuned person to
themselves, what their intuitionis, what they, what their needs
are,

Yes

Exie (01:32:44):
allowing that to supersede the messages that come in from
the outside.

Exactly.
Yeah.

Exie (01:32:51):
this has been such a great morning connecting with you.
I had never heard your birthstories all the years that we've
known each other.
I have never heard your birthstories, and so I feel very
privileged that you decided toshare them with me and also in
this format.
So thank you, Elise.

Oh, thank you so much, Exie.
Thank you for receiving them andletting me share and speak, and
also I'm gonna plant the seedof, I look forward to hearing
your birth stories.

Exie (01:33:18):
Oh, I think if you go back in the podcast early,

Did I miss it?

Exie (01:33:24):
Ciana and I did share both of our stories.
I don't know how in depth I gotwith my eldest.
I'd have to go back and check,it was fairly early on in our
podcast And then we both hadinductions, so I know I shared
Ethan's experience in that oneas well.
But again, I haven't listened toin a really long time.
And that's the, that's aninteresting thing too, because

(01:33:46):
memory is kind of fluid, right.
what we highlight when we tell astory at one point in our life
may be very different from whatwe highlight in telling the same
story later in our life.
Yeah, I'll have to go back andlisten to those too and see how
I described my stories.

Yeah.
Thank you for naming that.
I'm gonna go back and listen.
I probably listened a long timeago, but I want to listen again.
Yeah.

Exie (01:34:12):
yeah.
Yeah.
Ciana and oh my goodness, we didso much giggling.
When we were recording, so, beprepared for that.
Her induction story was reallyfascinating.
So Elise, you have hosted acouple of retreats recently in
the recent years.

Yeah.
I've been working with MickeyGardner, who is a co-parenting
coach and she really helps momsand dads navigate, parenting,
whether they're still coupled orpost-divorce and, we work with
moms married, unmarried, and wedo a three month container of
support and really naming whatis intentional living for you?

(01:34:51):
Because all of our householdsoperate differently and what's
priority right now might not bepriority three years from now,
but we gotta name it so thatthere's less resentment, less
feeling like not yourself.
We've had moms, that haveteenagers, moms that are very
recently postpartum and everyonein between.
It's been really a great giftand fulfillment and we just

(01:35:13):
wrapped up our last three monththing this week.
So thanks for naming that.
You can follow me on Instagramat Birth Humanity, and my
website is birth humanity.comand both of those are 99% update
updated at any time, andespecially my Instagram will
have more information I feelthan my website.

(01:35:34):
But my website has a great blogtoo that I just share whatever's
on my mind and heart that I wantothers to know or messages to my
children that I just want intheir wheelhouse.

Exie (01:35:46):
Yeah.
That's fantastic.
Thank you again for opening upyour morning for me.
It was great to chat with you.
I hope we get to see each otheragain in real life very soon.

Yeah, I'm sure we will.
Yeah.
Thank you.
It was a pleasure.
Thank you for listening andholding space for me.

Exie (01:36:02):
Absolutely.
Thank you for spending time withme today on Metro Detroit Birth
Stories.
If you loved this episode, letme know.
Leave a review, share it with afriend, and come connect with me
on Instagram@metrodetroitbirthsupport and if

(01:36:24):
you have a birth story to share,I would love to hear it.
Please take a moment to reachout to me, whether it was six
months ago or 60 years ago.
Your story could be theinspiration for someone who
hears it to gain the confidencethey need as they embark on
their own birth journey.
My email is in the show notes.

(01:36:47):
This podcast is produced andfunded by me, and I really
appreciate you listening.
Until next time, take care.
Be gentle with yourself.
Be kind to others, and remember,every birth story deserves to be
told.
The music you hear on MetroDetroit Birth Stories has been

(01:37:09):
provided by Purple Planet Music,written and performed by Chris
Martyn and Geoff Harvey.

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