June 28, 2025 • 27 mins
What if every person on earth could reach their absolute potential? Dr. Adriane Johnson-Williams believes our collective power is diminished when systems block people from their best selves - and she's dedicated her life to changing that reality.
The catalyst for her remarkable journey began at age 14 when she left South Memphis for boarding school, suddenly experiencing privileges her equally brilliant friends back home would never access. That stark contrast planted a seed that grew into her lifelong mission to eliminate barriers to human potential.
This conversation goes beyond surface-level diversity talk to explore how real change happens. Dr. Johnson-Williams reveals her powerful filter for clients: "I'm not going to work with you if I don't believe you're ready to do the work." Her actionable framework for addressing inequity starts with getting clear on your vision, understanding why things are the way they are, and identifying your specific "brushstroke" contribution to larger systemic change.
Perhaps most illuminating is her distinction between mentorship and sponsorship. While mentorship provides guidance and emotional support, Dr. Johnson-Williams credits her success to sponsors who "walked me up to the door, opened it, gone in on the other side, and said 'hey, this is my girl.'" This transfer of power - literally stamping others with your authority - creates pathways traditional mentorship cannot.
Her approach to equity conversations begins with helping people interrogate their own identity and place within systems, creating space for honest reflection while maintaining everyone's dignity. Through profound insights on emotional intelligence, reflective practice, and authentic leadership, Dr. Johnson-Williams demonstrates why her one-word mission - "humanity" - resonates so powerfully across classrooms, boardrooms, and communities.
Ready to make your contribution to unleashing human potential? Listen now and discover how your "because" becomes your superpower.
Connect & Discover Dr Adriane:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drajw/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/explore/search/keyword/?q=dr%20adriane%20johnson-williams Website: https://standpointconsulting.com/about/dr-adriane-johnson-williams/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (00:00):
I'm not going to work with you if I
don't believe that you areready to do the work.
And so we have to have a lot ofconversations about the
sacrifices it's going to make,the sacrifices you're going to
have to make, the challengesyou're going to confront.
Intro (00:15):
Welcome to Mick Unplugged , the number one podcast for
self-improvement, leadership andrelentless growth.
No fluff, no filters, justhard-hitting truths, unstoppable
strategies and the mindsetshifts that separate the best
from the rest.
Ready to break limits, let's go.
Mick Hunt (00:39):
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting
episode of Make Unplugged, andtoday we have Brilliance in the
building.
She's a scholar, she's astrategist, she's an advocate,
transforming the conversationaround racial equality,
education and leadership.
We're talking about going fromclassrooms to communities, from
research to real world impact.
(01:00):
She's brilliant, she's fearless, she's a catalyst None other
than the doctor AdrianeJohnson-Williams.
Dr Adriane, how are you doingtoday?
Dr Adriane Johnson-William (01:09):
dear I'm doing well.
You did a great job with thatintro.
I'm going to have to hire youto lead everything I do whenever
I show up $5 goes a long way.
Seriously, you're a royalannouncer.
Mick Hunt (01:22):
So, Dr Williams, there's so much that I want to
get into.
You know, like I said in theintro, you're brilliant, huge
fan of the work that you'redoing in the communities, in the
boardrooms, in the classrooms,like everywhere.
So I want to start with thisquestion of what's your because?
What's your, that thing that'sdeeper than your?
(01:43):
Why, like, your core purpose isfueling all the work that
you're doing.
Yeah, what's your because?
Dr Adriane Johnson-William (01:48):
Yeah , what's your?
Because you?
I knew you were going to askthis question.
I did my research too, I did myhomework, I'm a scholar and
I've been thinking about itreally deeply and I I struggle
to answer it.
I struggle to answer it.
I think at the core of it, Ireally fundamentally believe
that every single human beinghas something beautiful and
(02:09):
wonderful to offer, and that thesystems that we create as
people sometimes because we aretribal in some ways, because we
are, you know, threatened by allthe different things, all the
different isms that we have weactually diminish our collective
(02:34):
power, we diminish what we canbecome as an entire human
society, because we don't valuehuman beings.
And so I think that's my why.
I think that there should benothing standing between any
individual human being and theirabsolute best potential,
selfishly, because I think thatwe would all benefit from it.
Mick Hunt (02:50):
I love that.
I love that.
You know, like I said, a hugefan of your work, but when did
that become like your catalyst,right, like when did you know
that this was the work you weredestined to be doing, and not
only destined to be doing, butmaking an impact with the work
that you're?
Dr Adriane Johnson-Willia (03:07):
doing so.
I think my very first inklingwas when I went away to boarding
school.
So I went away to boardingschool when I was 14 years old
and I'm from Memphis, tennessee,south Memphis, and I had, you
know friends, all you know, inelementary school and junior
high school and I went toboarding school for the ninth
(03:28):
grade and it was only a few daysthat I was there on campus that
I realized that I was seeingand experiencing something that
none of my friends were going toexperience.
I was getting so much privilege.
The campus was beautiful, thefood was amazing, the teachers
(03:50):
were always smiling, theclassrooms were vibrant and I
thought, well, I mean, I'm smartand everything I know, I'm
special in some ways.
But I went to school with otherreally smart folks, even though
we didn't have a lot of money,we didn't come from the fanciest
neighborhoods.
There were some amazing friendsthat I left behind and they
(04:12):
weren't going to get this.
It's like what is that about?
And I feel like that was theseed that every step I took
afterwards even though I wantedto go into mechanical
engineering and study physics, Ididn't I ultimately went into
education and economics.
Like everything, every step Itook ultimately led me to really
(04:32):
trying to figure out.
How do we eliminate that gap,how do we make it so that
whatever you are born to do inthis world, you can do, and that
you're not blocked from itbecause those resources are for
other people?
Mick Hunt (04:47):
I love that and you know one of the questions I was
going to ask you and I thinkit's perfect timing because I
know you're a person of action,right?
And I know the companies andorganizations that you work with
and even the individuals thatyou mentor.
Action is part of what you do,right?
So how do you get organizationsand people to go from talking
(05:07):
about things to actually doingthe things that matter?
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (05:11):
Oh, such a good question, well one.
I expect people to have thedisposition to do it right.
So I have a little filter I'mnot gonna work with you if I
don't believe that you are readyto do the work.
And so we have to have a lot ofconversations about the
sacrifices it's going to make,the sacrifices you're going to
(05:32):
have to make, the challengesyou're going to confront.
So you know, I vet my clients.
I'm very privileged that I'mable to choose my clients, as
opposed to, you know, reallyhaving to struggle to find folks
.
And when it comes to mentorship, even I give every young person
(05:54):
who comes to me and ask forhelp an assignment.
The first thing they have to dois complete a set of actions,
and if they do it, great, thenwe can get up and running.
If they don't do it, then oftenthey know well enough not to
call me back Like I just I don'thear from them again, because I
(06:15):
expect if I'm going to investtime and energy, it's going to
result in something.
And the same thing, even thoughmy clients are paying me,
they're paying me to getmovement and so they have to
(06:37):
want to do it.
The other thing is being ableto help people see the pathway
right.
The folks I work with aretrying impact on some of these
things, but I had a professor ingrad school.
Her name was Gloria LatsonBillings.
She's an amazing scholareducation scholar and in our
research methods class she wasbasically teaching us what it
(06:57):
meant to become an academic andshe said that we have big dreams
and big vision, but what weneed to recognize is that in our
lifetime, in the span of ourhumanity, we may only be able to
make one brushstroke on a hugercanvas, but we have to make
sure that our brushstroke is theright brushstroke and the best
(07:18):
brushstroke, the rightbrushstroke and best brushstroke
for us.
It's so funny.
You say that like five timesreally fast.
But yes, so and so that's whatI believe.
We have to figure out what ourcontribution is to solving the
big problems.
Mick Hunt (07:39):
Yep, totally agree.
You know, I know that you are abig proponent of
self-reflection.
What role does self-reflectionplay in becoming like an
effective, an effective leaderand an effective purpose for
others?
Dr Adriane Johnson-W (07:58):
Reflective practice is important for
everybody, every profession, ifyou want to get better, because
if you're spending all of yourtime just doing, doing, doing,
doing, then you could just bespinning your wheels.
You may not actually be doinganything of any real value.
It's important to step back andthink about what worked, what
didn't work, why, and it's acritical part of emotional
(08:20):
intelligence, too, to be able toreally do some thinking and
digging into your ownmotivations and your own
interactions with other peopleto determine how could this have
gone better?
Because if we don't start withourselves, if we're not
reflective of ourselves, thenwe're really just out there
judging what other people do.
(08:40):
That doesn't help us either.
Mick Hunt (08:43):
No, I totally agree and I'm glad that you brought up
emotional intelligence.
Like to me, that's been, I'dsay, over the last three years,
one of the biggest shifts thatI've had corporate leaders going
through.
Right Like, if you can'tself-reflect, like, gone are the
days where you need to have theimmediate answer, right Like I
think now is a time where youreally need to make sure that
(09:06):
your response is a lastingresponse and an impactful
response, not just the buckstops with me approach right
Like I talk about the shiftsbetween the 90s to the early
2000s to today, and emotionalintelligence for me, is the
biggest proponent of everythingthat leadership should center
around.
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (09:23):
I wonder if it was ever a good
thing to have people just sayingI've got all the answers
because they never did, theynever had all the answers.
And I wonder again on this,this issue of, like all of
humanity and everything we'recapable of, what we lost with
that leadership model.
What was it?
That was it.
Who are the people who were inthat room who had better answers
(09:45):
and the person who didn't haveenough ego, enough emotional
self-awareness to say I don'tknow, what do you think?
Mick Hunt (09:53):
Yeah, I don't know and then also I don't agree.
Yeah, like, think about, Ialways talk to my mom now about
growing up.
The difference between herraising me and like me raising
my kids was I had the internet,where things had to be real
right, like I couldn't just saysomething and it not be
researched and just told, evenfrom a leadership perspective.
(10:13):
You know, with me comingthrough the leadership ranks in
the late 90s, early 2000s, youkind of took somebody's word as
their word and then all of asudden it's like wait a second,
that actually wasn't true, thatevent didn't happen the way that
it was told, or, you know, thiswas more of a myth than it was
actuality.
People need the help, but itshould help people with that
(10:36):
aspect of it's okay to not haveall the answers or to know the
right thing to do if you can goget the source for that.
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (10:53):
I'm also going to say just a little
secret here.
Tell everyone who's watching.
If you only talk about thethings you know, people think
you're really smart Because whenthey fact check you, everything
you say is true.
So if you don't talk aboutstuff you don't know anything
about, people are like you knowshe's real smart, like she
(11:14):
really knows what she's talkingabout.
Yes, because she only talksabout what she knows.
Mick Hunt (11:18):
Hey, that's I say the same thing to speakers.
If you're going to be a speaker, make it real.
The same thing to speakers,right?
If you're going to be a speaker, make it real.
Don't take someone else'sframeworks or their thoughts and
then try to make it yours,because there's going to be a
moment where you have to answerquestions and you're going to
look a little foolish if you'renot talking about the things
that you know.
Yeah, yeah.
So another thing that I'mreally proud of you for is you
(11:42):
have led the spark of havingtough conversations about equity
, right?
What's like a framework or apractice that you use to guide
leaders or to guideorganizations through those
tough conversations?
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (11:56):
Can I go back a little bit to where
?
So I used to be a professor ofeducation and I taught teachers
and superintendents andprincipals and I taught what was
called the social foundationscourses, so history, sociology,
philosophy of education, thatkind of thing.
And when I taught the socialissues classes, where we talked
(12:17):
about race, my students werewhite.
Almost all my students werewhite.
I taught in West Virginia.
My students were white, almostall my students were white.
I taught in West Virginia and Iwould always start topics about
race and education in talkingabout white identity.
I started with them and I feellike that is the thing that has
really carried all the waythrough in all of my work,
(12:40):
particularly when I work withwhite leaders.
I start with them because wewhiteness.
It doesn't.
It's like it doesn't exist.
Whiteness isn't a racialidentity.
Whiteness is just.
It just is.
And because we get to, becausepeople feel that way, it feels
like you don't have tointerrogate it, and so by
starting with white identity andhaving people really get in and
(13:03):
get a little uncomfortable withtheir own place in all of these
systems, I really feel like Iget a lot farther, also because
I do it with kindness.
Again, humanity and dignitycore values of mine.
I want for people to maintaintheir dignity.
I also want for people to main,you know, be honest about what
responsibility they have tochange things, what power they
(13:24):
have, and so that's really Ithink my special sauce is
starting with people, with whothe people are who are in power
in these systems.
Mick Hunt (13:41):
So for the viewer or listener, right now that's going
through some type of challengewith inequity in their own
spaces, whether that's home,community employment.
If they're the owner, theleader, whatever, what's like
one actionable step that theycan take?
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (14:00):
Can I say two?
Mick Hunt (14:02):
You can give as many as you want.
Dr Adriane Johnson-William (14:03):
I'll give two.
One it's important to have realclarity about what you think
should be, what is the visionfor what equity looks like in
the space you're in, becauseotherwise you could end up
flailing.
So what is the thing, what isthe ideal place?
And then the next thing I wouldsay is try to understand why
(14:29):
things look the way they look,and I feel like answers emerge
from that.
Right Answers emerge from thatbecause you can look at the whys
and say, well, I can't doanything about this, this or
this, but this is something.
This is something I could dosomething about.
So let me focus here.
So I think that's it Be clearabout what your vision is and
try to understand why things arethe way they are, and then your
next steps will rise up to meetyou.
Mick Hunt (14:51):
I love that.
I love that we talked about youbeing a mentor, how important.
It's kind of a facetiousquestion because I know the
answer, but how important ismentorship to you personally and
how important should it be forleaders that are out there today
(15:11):
?
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (15:14):
Hmm , that's a really it's an
excellent question.
Well, I, to be honest, I'vebenefited more from sponsorship
than I have from mentorship inmy life.
Okay, let's talk about that.
Had people along the way who'veoffered me guidance, who've
(15:36):
taught me things, but it's thepeople who have walked me up to
the door, opened the door, gonein on the other side of the door
, said, hey, this is my girl,she's coming through, don't mess
with her when she gets overhere, and then come back and
walked me through the door.
That's like the sponsorshipspace and I feel like when
(15:58):
you're really trying to do big,big work, you need sponsorship.
I think mentorship is the thingthat helps to give you the
courage.
Mentorship helps to give yousome frameworks.
Mentorship lets you know thatyou're not alone.
Sponsorship is the thing thatreally helps you get down the
path that really helps you getdown the path.
Mick Hunt (16:20):
I actually I love that distinction and want to go
deeper there.
So, and it's getting me tothink a little bit, right, like
if I were to go back to amentorship really important, but
I think, along with some ofthat mentorship in the same
people, was sponsorship, right.
So how does one go about on thereceiving end of the
sponsorship, like what, whatshould you be looking for from
(16:42):
that type of sponsor,sponsorship?
You?
Dr Adriane Johnson-William (16:43):
know , one of the things is, in my
experience and I've talked to alot of black women about this,
actually because many of uswho've managed to make it very
far, our sponsors have beenwhite men, which is fascinating,
because that's where a lot ofpower is Just be real and that
you can't ask for it.
I don't know anyone who's askedfor a sponsor.
(17:05):
I feel like in order to reallyget sponsorship which is also an
inequitable process you reallyhave to perform.
So you have to have had thekind of mentorship, the kind of
drive to show up and perform.
But when that opportunity comes, when someone says I see you, I
(17:25):
want to do something to helpyou really take this next step.
I want to take you to thismeeting, I want you to go in
this room and talk to thesepeople.
You have to do it right.
You have to do it.
You can't hem and haw about itBecause, much like the way that
(17:46):
I approach guiding folks, I givethem an assignment right, and I
would have to say this is thefirst time I put those two
things together that I've beengiven assignments and when
someone says I want to help you,this is what you need to do, I
go do it.
Right, when do you need me to dothis?
How?
When is it happening?
(18:06):
I go do it and it has benefitedme greatly in this life when
somebody has given me literallywe're going to this meeting, I
want you to go with me and sitat this table with me.
I mean, I know the at the tablemetaphor is well-worn, but
literally you're going intomeetings and sitting at tables,
(18:27):
right, I'm going into meetingsand I'm at this table and I'm
backed up, like when someoneasks a question and that person
who's sponsoring me says I thinkAdrian has some really good
thoughts on this.
You got to show up, you got toopen your mouth, you got to show
them what you got, and thattranslates into more and more
opportunities.
Mick Hunt (18:45):
No, I love that and I think I'm going to start having
more conversations around thesponsorship piece.
You know like I talk about itwithout giving it the title that
it deserves.
But you're exactly right, likeit's one thing to be a mentor
and I definitely believe inmentorship.
Right, like I wouldn't be whereI'm at without mentorship, like
I said.
But I do think that for peoplewho are mentors, 50%, if not a
(19:09):
little bit more, of what you doshould be around the sponsorship
.
So bring people into the roomsthat you're walking into, people
into the rooms that you'rewalking into, give them the seat
at the table right and then,like Dr Adrian just said and one
of my mantras and my leadershipprinciples, move the stool, let
them sit on their own right,because that should be a part of
(19:31):
your mentorship.
You should be mentoring them sothat they're ready for the room
, right, but you have to bringthem to the room to prove it,
because if not, maybe yourmentorship isn't what you think
it is.
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (19:41):
Let me tell you, I remember
distinctly in the last 10 yearsor so, I was asked to go
represent someone who's kind ofpowerful in the city and he was
like I can't go to this meeting,I need you to go to this
meeting.
And I was like, ok, I mean bythat point, sure I go to the
meeting, I need you to go tothis meeting.
And I was like, okay, I mean bythat point, sure I go to the
meeting.
So I go to the meeting and I'msitting at this table and
(20:03):
everyone is kind of looking likewhoa, like you're here, right,
and asking me where he was.
I was like, oh, he sent me, I'mrepresenting him today.
And the dynamic in the room, thepalpable difference in the
energy.
I think it was just like, oh,we're going to have to deal with
(20:24):
her now.
It was like, all of a sudden, Ihad real power, because I had
his power and so that issponsorship.
It is the thing where and bysponsorship I mean quite
literally, you know, when aNASCAR or in kind of soccer, you
(20:45):
see the names of the like thatis what it means.
When I show up someplace in acertain space, people know this
person comes with this otherperson's authority, this other
person's authority.
I have my own folks who I sendout and people know oh well, if
she's here, then Adrian sent her, then we probably need to
engage with her a certain way.
(21:06):
And so you take the power youhave and you literally stamp
those people with your power andthat is sponsorship and
eventually, right, I don't likemy sponsors in earlier in my
life.
People don't know those peopleanymore.
They gave me what I needed toget to this next step.
I don't you know.
Their sponsorship is stillknown to me.
(21:28):
It's not known to other people,but I couldn't have gotten
where I am without them.
Mick Hunt (21:33):
Totally agree.
Totally agree.
All right, Dr Adrian, that's myfavorite part of the show.
You ready for your quick five?
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (21:40):
I am.
Mick Hunt (21:41):
You sure?
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (21:42):
I think, so let's go All right.
Mick Hunt (21:44):
So you're from Memphis, right, and I've got a
family in Memphis.
Actually, I've got an uncle andaunt in Germantown.
My cousins went to WhiteStation out there, so your
favorite Memphis meal is stationout there.
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (22:03):
So your favorite Memphis meal is my
favorite Memphis meal isvinegary collard greens, pulled
pork and but really wellseasoned pulled pork, cause I
don't really like sauce.
I'm not a sauce person.
Okay, and quite frankly, if youjust stop there, I'm going to
(22:23):
be happy, but if you want to addsome cornbread to it, I would
love that, and the vinegarycollard greens need to have
hominy.
Mick Hunt (22:32):
Okay, I dig it.
I dig it, not the pulled pork,but I dig everything else.
Give me some collards and greenbeans or collards and cornbread
, I'm straight.
Dr Adriane Johnson-William (22:41):
Yeah , well, my collars do also have
pork fat in it, so you mightwant to like if you're doing
vegetarian or whatnot, you know,you can still do it with.
You know, without all that.
Mick Hunt (22:50):
Got to pass.
Got to pass your favoriteself-care ritual Favorite
self-care ritual.
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (22:57):
Oh, these days it's audio books.
Okay, so I have gotten offsocial media here in, you know,
towards the end of 2024, 2025.
And I love to, you know, sit onmy porch I live in an arboretum
, essentially and watch thebirds and the critters and
(23:19):
listen to audiobooks.
Mick Hunt (23:20):
Okay, so then that leaves a quick number three.
What's been a book that'srecently transformed your
thinking on leadership?
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (23:29):
Oh wow, I don't know.
I've been reading mostlyromantic novels these days your
favorite romantic novel, then.
So I'm not going to lie.
Although there is a great,there's some leadership lessons
in this series.
It's called the Empyrean series.
It begins with the fourth wing,and one of the things that I
(23:53):
really love about this is thefact that the main character has
a disability, and there arelots of disability advocacy in
the book.
It's really beautiful and thatit's just the idea that, no
matter what you, how you show upon this planet, if there's a
calling for you, if there'ssomething that's meant for you,
no matter what other peoplethink you're going to do it and
(24:14):
you and you, if you are meant tolead, you will do it.
Mick Hunt (24:17):
Okay, I like that.
I like that.
Who's been the most inspiringperson you've either worked with
or learned from?
Dr Adriane Johnson-William (24:26):
This is tricky because everybody's
going to see this.
Mick Hunt (24:30):
That's why it's the hot five.
I know, I know.
Dr Adriane Johnson-William (24:35):
Most inspiring I thought I was ready
.
I'm not ready.
Most inspiring I thought I wasready, I'm not ready.
I'll say um, there's a womannamed Marianne Urquilla.
She is the founder of theCenter for Creative uh, the not
Center for the Center forCommunity Investment.
Um, she's a teacher of mine inthe world of results, work and
(24:59):
what I do, and she's the onlyperson I've ever met in a
training environment who I was.
She wasn't intimidating, I wasintimidated, I was intimidated
and I was just like I didn't.
It was such a feeling I didn'tknow what it was, but she's such
a big thinker and she reallypushes me and I learned
(25:22):
something from her every time Italked with her, every time I
talked with her.
Mick Hunt (25:26):
So Mariana, I love it .
What final question?
What's one word that capturesyour mission?
Mission, humanity.
(25:46):
I love it.
I love it.
Dr Adrian, I know you are sobusy.
You are a world traveler,always have things going on, so
I appreciate your time today.
What is new with you?
What's one thing you wantpeople to know?
And then where can we followand find you?
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (25:56):
Yes , so I am really digging in on
supporting white men in businessleadership who want to focus on
racial equity.
That is my.
I'm really ramping up that workand I'll be starting a consumer
research project this summer toreally get a sense of what's
going on with them, wherethey're struggling and what they
(26:17):
need.
Sense of what's going on withthem, where they're struggling
and what they need.
So I'm excited to dig into that.
People can find me atstandpoint consulting, literally
the at symbol standpointconsulting.
Just about you know what isthat LinkedIn, Instagram, and
you can also just look for me,Adriane Johnson-Williams on
(26:37):
LinkedIn, and I think it's alsoDr AJW.
Mick Hunt (26:41):
I love it.
Dr Adriane, thank you so muchfor your time.
Truly a blessing to hear fromyou, and another conversation we
should have again too.
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (26:50):
I would love to.
This has been very lovely.
Thank you for having me.
Mick Hunt (26:53):
You got it, and to all the viewers and listeners
remember your because is yoursuperpower, go unleash it.
Make a plan and take action,because the next level is
(27:17):
already waiting for you.
Have a question or insight toshare?
Send us an email to hello atmickunpluggedcom.
Until next time, ask yourselfhow you can step up.
I'm not going to work with you if I
don't believe that you areready to do the work.
And so we have to have a lot ofconversations about the
sacrifices it's going to make,the sacrifices you're going to
have to make, the challengesyou're going to confront.
Intro (00:15):
Welcome to Mick Unplugged , the number one podcast for
self-improvement, leadership andrelentless growth.
No fluff, no filters, justhard-hitting truths, unstoppable
strategies and the mindsetshifts that separate the best
from the rest.
Ready to break limits, let's go.
Mick Hunt (00:39):
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting
episode of Make Unplugged, andtoday we have Brilliance in the
building.
She's a scholar, she's astrategist, she's an advocate,
transforming the conversationaround racial equality,
education and leadership.
We're talking about going fromclassrooms to communities, from
research to real world impact.
(01:00):
She's brilliant, she's fearless, she's a catalyst None other
than the doctor AdrianeJohnson-Williams.
Dr Adriane, how are you doingtoday?
Dr Adriane Johnson-William (01:09):
dear I'm doing well.
You did a great job with thatintro.
I'm going to have to hire youto lead everything I do whenever
I show up $5 goes a long way.
Seriously, you're a royalannouncer.
Mick Hunt (01:22):
So, Dr Williams, there's so much that I want to
get into.
You know, like I said in theintro, you're brilliant, huge
fan of the work that you'redoing in the communities, in the
boardrooms, in the classrooms,like everywhere.
So I want to start with thisquestion of what's your because?
What's your, that thing that'sdeeper than your?
(01:43):
Why, like, your core purpose isfueling all the work that
you're doing.
Yeah, what's your because?
Dr Adriane Johnson-William (01:48):
Yeah , what's your?
Because you?
I knew you were going to askthis question.
I did my research too, I did myhomework, I'm a scholar and
I've been thinking about itreally deeply and I I struggle
to answer it.
I struggle to answer it.
I think at the core of it, Ireally fundamentally believe
that every single human beinghas something beautiful and
(02:09):
wonderful to offer, and that thesystems that we create as
people sometimes because we aretribal in some ways, because we
are, you know, threatened by allthe different things, all the
different isms that we have weactually diminish our collective
(02:34):
power, we diminish what we canbecome as an entire human
society, because we don't valuehuman beings.
And so I think that's my why.
I think that there should benothing standing between any
individual human being and theirabsolute best potential,
selfishly, because I think thatwe would all benefit from it.
Mick Hunt (02:50):
I love that.
I love that.
You know, like I said, a hugefan of your work, but when did
that become like your catalyst,right, like when did you know
that this was the work you weredestined to be doing, and not
only destined to be doing, butmaking an impact with the work
that you're?
Dr Adriane Johnson-Willia (03:07):
doing so.
I think my very first inklingwas when I went away to boarding
school.
So I went away to boardingschool when I was 14 years old
and I'm from Memphis, tennessee,south Memphis, and I had, you
know friends, all you know, inelementary school and junior
high school and I went toboarding school for the ninth
(03:28):
grade and it was only a few daysthat I was there on campus that
I realized that I was seeingand experiencing something that
none of my friends were going toexperience.
I was getting so much privilege.
The campus was beautiful, thefood was amazing, the teachers
(03:50):
were always smiling, theclassrooms were vibrant and I
thought, well, I mean, I'm smartand everything I know, I'm
special in some ways.
But I went to school with otherreally smart folks, even though
we didn't have a lot of money,we didn't come from the fanciest
neighborhoods.
There were some amazing friendsthat I left behind and they
(04:12):
weren't going to get this.
It's like what is that about?
And I feel like that was theseed that every step I took
afterwards even though I wantedto go into mechanical
engineering and study physics, Ididn't I ultimately went into
education and economics.
Like everything, every step Itook ultimately led me to really
(04:32):
trying to figure out.
How do we eliminate that gap,how do we make it so that
whatever you are born to do inthis world, you can do, and that
you're not blocked from itbecause those resources are for
other people?
Mick Hunt (04:47):
I love that and you know one of the questions I was
going to ask you and I thinkit's perfect timing because I
know you're a person of action,right?
And I know the companies andorganizations that you work with
and even the individuals thatyou mentor.
Action is part of what you do,right?
So how do you get organizationsand people to go from talking
(05:07):
about things to actually doingthe things that matter?
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (05:11):
Oh, such a good question, well one.
I expect people to have thedisposition to do it right.
So I have a little filter I'mnot gonna work with you if I
don't believe that you are readyto do the work.
And so we have to have a lot ofconversations about the
sacrifices it's going to make,the sacrifices you're going to
(05:32):
have to make, the challengesyou're going to confront.
So you know, I vet my clients.
I'm very privileged that I'mable to choose my clients, as
opposed to, you know, reallyhaving to struggle to find folks
.
And when it comes to mentorship, even I give every young person
(05:54):
who comes to me and ask forhelp an assignment.
The first thing they have to dois complete a set of actions,
and if they do it, great, thenwe can get up and running.
If they don't do it, then oftenthey know well enough not to
call me back Like I just I don'thear from them again, because I
(06:15):
expect if I'm going to investtime and energy, it's going to
result in something.
And the same thing, even thoughmy clients are paying me,
they're paying me to getmovement and so they have to
(06:37):
want to do it.
The other thing is being ableto help people see the pathway
right.
The folks I work with aretrying impact on some of these
things, but I had a professor ingrad school.
Her name was Gloria LatsonBillings.
She's an amazing scholareducation scholar and in our
research methods class she wasbasically teaching us what it
(06:57):
meant to become an academic andshe said that we have big dreams
and big vision, but what weneed to recognize is that in our
lifetime, in the span of ourhumanity, we may only be able to
make one brushstroke on a hugercanvas, but we have to make
sure that our brushstroke is theright brushstroke and the best
(07:18):
brushstroke, the rightbrushstroke and best brushstroke
for us.
It's so funny.
You say that like five timesreally fast.
But yes, so and so that's whatI believe.
We have to figure out what ourcontribution is to solving the
big problems.
Mick Hunt (07:39):
Yep, totally agree.
You know, I know that you are abig proponent of
self-reflection.
What role does self-reflectionplay in becoming like an
effective, an effective leaderand an effective purpose for
others?
Dr Adriane Johnson-W (07:58):
Reflective practice is important for
everybody, every profession, ifyou want to get better, because
if you're spending all of yourtime just doing, doing, doing,
doing, then you could just bespinning your wheels.
You may not actually be doinganything of any real value.
It's important to step back andthink about what worked, what
didn't work, why, and it's acritical part of emotional
(08:20):
intelligence, too, to be able toreally do some thinking and
digging into your ownmotivations and your own
interactions with other peopleto determine how could this have
gone better?
Because if we don't start withourselves, if we're not
reflective of ourselves, thenwe're really just out there
judging what other people do.
(08:40):
That doesn't help us either.
Mick Hunt (08:43):
No, I totally agree and I'm glad that you brought up
emotional intelligence.
Like to me, that's been, I'dsay, over the last three years,
one of the biggest shifts thatI've had corporate leaders going
through.
Right Like, if you can'tself-reflect, like, gone are the
days where you need to have theimmediate answer, right Like I
think now is a time where youreally need to make sure that
(09:06):
your response is a lastingresponse and an impactful
response, not just the buckstops with me approach right
Like I talk about the shiftsbetween the 90s to the early
2000s to today, and emotionalintelligence for me, is the
biggest proponent of everythingthat leadership should center
around.
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (09:23):
I wonder if it was ever a good
thing to have people just sayingI've got all the answers
because they never did, theynever had all the answers.
And I wonder again on this,this issue of, like all of
humanity and everything we'recapable of, what we lost with
that leadership model.
What was it?
That was it.
Who are the people who were inthat room who had better answers
(09:45):
and the person who didn't haveenough ego, enough emotional
self-awareness to say I don'tknow, what do you think?
Mick Hunt (09:53):
Yeah, I don't know and then also I don't agree.
Yeah, like, think about, Ialways talk to my mom now about
growing up.
The difference between herraising me and like me raising
my kids was I had the internet,where things had to be real
right, like I couldn't just saysomething and it not be
researched and just told, evenfrom a leadership perspective.
(10:13):
You know, with me comingthrough the leadership ranks in
the late 90s, early 2000s, youkind of took somebody's word as
their word and then all of asudden it's like wait a second,
that actually wasn't true, thatevent didn't happen the way that
it was told, or, you know, thiswas more of a myth than it was
actuality.
People need the help, but itshould help people with that
(10:36):
aspect of it's okay to not haveall the answers or to know the
right thing to do if you can goget the source for that.
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (10:53):
I'm also going to say just a little
secret here.
Tell everyone who's watching.
If you only talk about thethings you know, people think
you're really smart Because whenthey fact check you, everything
you say is true.
So if you don't talk aboutstuff you don't know anything
about, people are like you knowshe's real smart, like she
(11:14):
really knows what she's talkingabout.
Yes, because she only talksabout what she knows.
Mick Hunt (11:18):
Hey, that's I say the same thing to speakers.
If you're going to be a speaker, make it real.
The same thing to speakers,right?
If you're going to be a speaker, make it real.
Don't take someone else'sframeworks or their thoughts and
then try to make it yours,because there's going to be a
moment where you have to answerquestions and you're going to
look a little foolish if you'renot talking about the things
that you know.
Yeah, yeah.
So another thing that I'mreally proud of you for is you
(11:42):
have led the spark of havingtough conversations about equity
, right?
What's like a framework or apractice that you use to guide
leaders or to guideorganizations through those
tough conversations?
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (11:56):
Can I go back a little bit to where
?
So I used to be a professor ofeducation and I taught teachers
and superintendents andprincipals and I taught what was
called the social foundationscourses, so history, sociology,
philosophy of education, thatkind of thing.
And when I taught the socialissues classes, where we talked
(12:17):
about race, my students werewhite.
Almost all my students werewhite.
I taught in West Virginia.
My students were white, almostall my students were white.
I taught in West Virginia and Iwould always start topics about
race and education in talkingabout white identity.
I started with them and I feellike that is the thing that has
really carried all the waythrough in all of my work,
(12:40):
particularly when I work withwhite leaders.
I start with them because wewhiteness.
It doesn't.
It's like it doesn't exist.
Whiteness isn't a racialidentity.
Whiteness is just.
It just is.
And because we get to, becausepeople feel that way, it feels
like you don't have tointerrogate it, and so by
starting with white identity andhaving people really get in and
(13:03):
get a little uncomfortable withtheir own place in all of these
systems, I really feel like Iget a lot farther, also because
I do it with kindness.
Again, humanity and dignitycore values of mine.
I want for people to maintaintheir dignity.
I also want for people to main,you know, be honest about what
responsibility they have tochange things, what power they
(13:24):
have, and so that's really Ithink my special sauce is
starting with people, with whothe people are who are in power
in these systems.
Mick Hunt (13:41):
So for the viewer or listener, right now that's going
through some type of challengewith inequity in their own
spaces, whether that's home,community employment.
If they're the owner, theleader, whatever, what's like
one actionable step that theycan take?
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (14:00):
Can I say two?
Mick Hunt (14:02):
You can give as many as you want.
Dr Adriane Johnson-William (14:03):
I'll give two.
One it's important to have realclarity about what you think
should be, what is the visionfor what equity looks like in
the space you're in, becauseotherwise you could end up
flailing.
So what is the thing, what isthe ideal place?
And then the next thing I wouldsay is try to understand why
(14:29):
things look the way they look,and I feel like answers emerge
from that.
Right Answers emerge from thatbecause you can look at the whys
and say, well, I can't doanything about this, this or
this, but this is something.
This is something I could dosomething about.
So let me focus here.
So I think that's it Be clearabout what your vision is and
try to understand why things arethe way they are, and then your
next steps will rise up to meetyou.
Mick Hunt (14:51):
I love that.
I love that we talked about youbeing a mentor, how important.
It's kind of a facetiousquestion because I know the
answer, but how important ismentorship to you personally and
how important should it be forleaders that are out there today
(15:11):
?
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (15:14):
Hmm , that's a really it's an
excellent question.
Well, I, to be honest, I'vebenefited more from sponsorship
than I have from mentorship inmy life.
Okay, let's talk about that.
Had people along the way who'veoffered me guidance, who've
(15:36):
taught me things, but it's thepeople who have walked me up to
the door, opened the door, gonein on the other side of the door
, said, hey, this is my girl,she's coming through, don't mess
with her when she gets overhere, and then come back and
walked me through the door.
That's like the sponsorshipspace and I feel like when
(15:58):
you're really trying to do big,big work, you need sponsorship.
I think mentorship is the thingthat helps to give you the
courage.
Mentorship helps to give yousome frameworks.
Mentorship lets you know thatyou're not alone.
Sponsorship is the thing thatreally helps you get down the
path that really helps you getdown the path.
Mick Hunt (16:20):
I actually I love that distinction and want to go
deeper there.
So, and it's getting me tothink a little bit, right, like
if I were to go back to amentorship really important, but
I think, along with some ofthat mentorship in the same
people, was sponsorship, right.
So how does one go about on thereceiving end of the
sponsorship, like what, whatshould you be looking for from
(16:42):
that type of sponsor,sponsorship?
You?
Dr Adriane Johnson-William (16:43):
know , one of the things is, in my
experience and I've talked to alot of black women about this,
actually because many of uswho've managed to make it very
far, our sponsors have beenwhite men, which is fascinating,
because that's where a lot ofpower is Just be real and that
you can't ask for it.
I don't know anyone who's askedfor a sponsor.
(17:05):
I feel like in order to reallyget sponsorship which is also an
inequitable process you reallyhave to perform.
So you have to have had thekind of mentorship, the kind of
drive to show up and perform.
But when that opportunity comes, when someone says I see you, I
(17:25):
want to do something to helpyou really take this next step.
I want to take you to thismeeting, I want you to go in
this room and talk to thesepeople.
You have to do it right.
You have to do it.
You can't hem and haw about itBecause, much like the way that
(17:46):
I approach guiding folks, I givethem an assignment right, and I
would have to say this is thefirst time I put those two
things together that I've beengiven assignments and when
someone says I want to help you,this is what you need to do, I
go do it.
Right, when do you need me to dothis?
How?
When is it happening?
(18:06):
I go do it and it has benefitedme greatly in this life when
somebody has given me literallywe're going to this meeting, I
want you to go with me and sitat this table with me.
I mean, I know the at the tablemetaphor is well-worn, but
literally you're going intomeetings and sitting at tables,
(18:27):
right, I'm going into meetingsand I'm at this table and I'm
backed up, like when someoneasks a question and that person
who's sponsoring me says I thinkAdrian has some really good
thoughts on this.
You got to show up, you got toopen your mouth, you got to show
them what you got, and thattranslates into more and more
opportunities.
Mick Hunt (18:45):
No, I love that and I think I'm going to start having
more conversations around thesponsorship piece.
You know like I talk about itwithout giving it the title that
it deserves.
But you're exactly right, likeit's one thing to be a mentor
and I definitely believe inmentorship.
Right, like I wouldn't be whereI'm at without mentorship, like
I said.
But I do think that for peoplewho are mentors, 50%, if not a
(19:09):
little bit more, of what you doshould be around the sponsorship
.
So bring people into the roomsthat you're walking into, people
into the rooms that you'rewalking into, give them the seat
at the table right and then,like Dr Adrian just said and one
of my mantras and my leadershipprinciples, move the stool, let
them sit on their own right,because that should be a part of
(19:31):
your mentorship.
You should be mentoring them sothat they're ready for the room
, right, but you have to bringthem to the room to prove it,
because if not, maybe yourmentorship isn't what you think
it is.
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (19:41):
Let me tell you, I remember
distinctly in the last 10 yearsor so, I was asked to go
represent someone who's kind ofpowerful in the city and he was
like I can't go to this meeting,I need you to go to this
meeting.
And I was like, ok, I mean bythat point, sure I go to the
meeting, I need you to go tothis meeting.
And I was like, okay, I mean bythat point, sure I go to the
meeting.
So I go to the meeting and I'msitting at this table and
(20:03):
everyone is kind of looking likewhoa, like you're here, right,
and asking me where he was.
I was like, oh, he sent me, I'mrepresenting him today.
And the dynamic in the room, thepalpable difference in the
energy.
I think it was just like, oh,we're going to have to deal with
(20:24):
her now.
It was like, all of a sudden, Ihad real power, because I had
his power and so that issponsorship.
It is the thing where and bysponsorship I mean quite
literally, you know, when aNASCAR or in kind of soccer, you
(20:45):
see the names of the like thatis what it means.
When I show up someplace in acertain space, people know this
person comes with this otherperson's authority, this other
person's authority.
I have my own folks who I sendout and people know oh well, if
she's here, then Adrian sent her, then we probably need to
engage with her a certain way.
(21:06):
And so you take the power youhave and you literally stamp
those people with your power andthat is sponsorship and
eventually, right, I don't likemy sponsors in earlier in my
life.
People don't know those peopleanymore.
They gave me what I needed toget to this next step.
I don't you know.
Their sponsorship is stillknown to me.
(21:28):
It's not known to other people,but I couldn't have gotten
where I am without them.
Mick Hunt (21:33):
Totally agree.
Totally agree.
All right, Dr Adrian, that's myfavorite part of the show.
You ready for your quick five?
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (21:40):
I am.
Mick Hunt (21:41):
You sure?
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (21:42):
I think, so let's go All right.
Mick Hunt (21:44):
So you're from Memphis, right, and I've got a
family in Memphis.
Actually, I've got an uncle andaunt in Germantown.
My cousins went to WhiteStation out there, so your
favorite Memphis meal is stationout there.
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (22:03):
So your favorite Memphis meal is my
favorite Memphis meal isvinegary collard greens, pulled
pork and but really wellseasoned pulled pork, cause I
don't really like sauce.
I'm not a sauce person.
Okay, and quite frankly, if youjust stop there, I'm going to
(22:23):
be happy, but if you want to addsome cornbread to it, I would
love that, and the vinegarycollard greens need to have
hominy.
Mick Hunt (22:32):
Okay, I dig it.
I dig it, not the pulled pork,but I dig everything else.
Give me some collards and greenbeans or collards and cornbread
, I'm straight.
Dr Adriane Johnson-William (22:41):
Yeah , well, my collars do also have
pork fat in it, so you mightwant to like if you're doing
vegetarian or whatnot, you know,you can still do it with.
You know, without all that.
Mick Hunt (22:50):
Got to pass.
Got to pass your favoriteself-care ritual Favorite
self-care ritual.
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (22:57):
Oh, these days it's audio books.
Okay, so I have gotten offsocial media here in, you know,
towards the end of 2024, 2025.
And I love to, you know, sit onmy porch I live in an arboretum
, essentially and watch thebirds and the critters and
(23:19):
listen to audiobooks.
Mick Hunt (23:20):
Okay, so then that leaves a quick number three.
What's been a book that'srecently transformed your
thinking on leadership?
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (23:29):
Oh wow, I don't know.
I've been reading mostlyromantic novels these days your
favorite romantic novel, then.
So I'm not going to lie.
Although there is a great,there's some leadership lessons
in this series.
It's called the Empyrean series.
It begins with the fourth wing,and one of the things that I
(23:53):
really love about this is thefact that the main character has
a disability, and there arelots of disability advocacy in
the book.
It's really beautiful and thatit's just the idea that, no
matter what you, how you show upon this planet, if there's a
calling for you, if there'ssomething that's meant for you,
no matter what other peoplethink you're going to do it and
(24:14):
you and you, if you are meant tolead, you will do it.
Mick Hunt (24:17):
Okay, I like that.
I like that.
Who's been the most inspiringperson you've either worked with
or learned from?
Dr Adriane Johnson-William (24:26):
This is tricky because everybody's
going to see this.
Mick Hunt (24:30):
That's why it's the hot five.
I know, I know.
Dr Adriane Johnson-William (24:35):
Most inspiring I thought I was ready
.
I'm not ready.
Most inspiring I thought I wasready, I'm not ready.
I'll say um, there's a womannamed Marianne Urquilla.
She is the founder of theCenter for Creative uh, the not
Center for the Center forCommunity Investment.
Um, she's a teacher of mine inthe world of results, work and
(24:59):
what I do, and she's the onlyperson I've ever met in a
training environment who I was.
She wasn't intimidating, I wasintimidated, I was intimidated
and I was just like I didn't.
It was such a feeling I didn'tknow what it was, but she's such
a big thinker and she reallypushes me and I learned
(25:22):
something from her every time Italked with her, every time I
talked with her.
Mick Hunt (25:26):
So Mariana, I love it .
What final question?
What's one word that capturesyour mission?
Mission, humanity.
(25:46):
I love it.
I love it.
Dr Adrian, I know you are sobusy.
You are a world traveler,always have things going on, so
I appreciate your time today.
What is new with you?
What's one thing you wantpeople to know?
And then where can we followand find you?
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (25:56):
Yes , so I am really digging in on
supporting white men in businessleadership who want to focus on
racial equity.
That is my.
I'm really ramping up that workand I'll be starting a consumer
research project this summer toreally get a sense of what's
going on with them, wherethey're struggling and what they
(26:17):
need.
Sense of what's going on withthem, where they're struggling
and what they need.
So I'm excited to dig into that.
People can find me atstandpoint consulting, literally
the at symbol standpointconsulting.
Just about you know what isthat LinkedIn, Instagram, and
you can also just look for me,Adriane Johnson-Williams on
(26:37):
LinkedIn, and I think it's alsoDr AJW.
Mick Hunt (26:41):
I love it.
Dr Adriane, thank you so muchfor your time.
Truly a blessing to hear fromyou, and another conversation we
should have again too.
Dr Adriane Johnson-Williams (26:50):
I would love to.
This has been very lovely.
Thank you for having me.
Mick Hunt (26:53):
You got it, and to all the viewers and listeners
remember your because is yoursuperpower, go unleash it.
Make a plan and take action,because the next level is
(27:17):
already waiting for you.
Have a question or insight toshare?
Send us an email to hello atmickunpluggedcom.
Until next time, ask yourselfhow you can step up.
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