March 27, 2024 • 45 mins
Have you ever felt your heart pound with unease while walking to your car at night? We have, and it's prompted a crucial conversation about women's self-defense that we couldn't wait to share with you. Joining us on the Middle Ageish Podcast is Rebecca Griffin, who shares her empowering journey into Brazilian jiu-jitsu and how earning her pink belt changed her life. We tackle the serious subject of personal safety with candid discussions about confidence, boundary setting, and the sobering realities that make these skills necessary.
During our engaging chat, Rebecca unpacked strategies that go beyond physical defense—like 'stop, block and frame'—to assertively communicate personal space. We confront the societal pressures that often silence women's instincts to prioritize safety over politeness. It's not just about knowing how to react but also about changing how we prepare and educate our children, especially boys, on respecting boundaries. The stories we exchange are real, raw, and a testament to why self-defense is an essential skill for women today.
Wrapping up the episode, we explore the unfortunate truth about bystander apathy and its implications for personal responsibility. So, whether you're new to the concept or looking to reinforce your skills, this episode promises to be an eye-opener on the importance of being prepared for anything life might throw your way.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Middle Age-ish Podcast.
Authentically andunapologetically, keeping it
real, Discussing all thingsMiddle Age-ish, A time when
metabolism slows and confidencegrows.
Join fashion and fitnessentrepreneur Ashley Badowski,
former Celtic woman and founderof the Lisa Kelly Voice Academy.
Lisa Kelly licensedpsychologist and mental health
(00:24):
expert, Dr Pam Wright and highlysought after cosmetic injector
and board certified nursepractitioner, Tricia Kennedy
Roman.
Join your hosts on the journeyof Middle Age-ish.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of Middle
Age-ish Podcast.
I am Dr Pam Wright and I'm herewith my co-host, lisa Kelly,
and Tricia Kennedy-Roman, and weare missing our third wheel
tonight, ashley, unfortunatelyshe can't be here.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
No, we miss her.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
We do.
We miss you Ashley.
Yeah, we miss you, ashley, buttoday we do have with us Rebecca
Griffin.
So excited to have you.
So Rebecca is actually a goodfriend of mine, went to the same
high school, but I'm not goingto tell you which one of us
graduated earlier, because we'rejust going to pretend we're the
same age.
But I've known her forever and Iwanted to have her on the show
because we had a conversationafter there was a girl that was
(01:14):
murdered who was running at theUniversity of Georgia Very sad
story and we just startedtalking about it and she was
telling me like, oh yeah, likeyou know, when people are
looking for someone to attack,this is what they do and you
don't have to be like big to beable to fight people off and
those kind of things.
So the day I actually talked toher about this, she was going
to get her pink belt, which is aI was thinking, okay, black
(01:34):
belt, where's pink belt?
I've never seen the pink belt,even though my son did karate,
but in jujitsu there's a pinkbelt and that's why you actually
went right to this facility isbecause it's not about muscles,
but it's about you can be smalland use your height, everything
to help fight and do someself-defense.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
For smaller people or weaker people, and the course
is actually called Women'sEmpowered and it's a
self-defense course.
That has in Brazilian jiu-jitsu.
So I didn't know anything aboutit at all.
I haven't done martial arts inmy whole life, never interested
(02:14):
or anything but I went to a freeseminar and just learned a
couple of small things.
It was a two-hour seminar andthe moves were so simple and
they're not necessarilyintuitive, if you don't
understand it, but they were sosimple and so effective and I
was just reeled in and I thought, well, yeah, I definitely want
(02:35):
to do this and I want to helpother people too.
So that was two years ago andin this particular jiu-jitsu
self-defense course, the endgoal is to get a quote-unquote
pink belt and it's literally thecolor pink, so you're not
wearing your white belt anymoreand the pink belt is only for
this particular class and itdoesn't always take two years,
(02:58):
like me, but you could do itfaster or slower, but it just
happened to take me two years.
So that's how I got started init and became interested in it.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Yeah, but she sent me a picture of her face after she
did the test.
I mean, you have to do allthese things and they film you
and then they have to submit itto people who review what you've
done to make sure that you dideverything accurately.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, it's videoed, which I hated.
But you do the test.
It's about 45 minutes or so andyou go through all the moves
and you can take little breaksbut about warm you out.
Our instructor, who's a blackbelt he's a five-degree black
belt he said actually it's thehardest test out of all the
belts, this women's course.
So I thought that was like well, thank goodness, so I don't
(03:41):
feel too bad.
But yeah, so I have my pinkbelt now and it was like I said
this was just out of the blue.
It's not anything in myexperience I've done before, or
interest or anything like that,but I'm glad I did it.
So there you have it.
So, you just woke up one day andyou're like I'm going to do a
(04:02):
women's self-defense course.
Well, I've always wanted to.
I wanted to do some sort ofself-defense course.
Yeah, well, I've always wantedto.
I wanted to do some sort ofself-defense.
But a friend of a friend knewof this class and I was like,
well, why not?
I had a free Saturday.
So I went up there and did itand literally it's.
It was the actual movesthemselves, For example, wrist
(04:26):
releases of someone grabs yourwrist.
There's an easy thing to dothat and I try it on my husband
all the time and a big guy andhe and I can always get away.
So it was just blew my mind howsimple it was.
And, like I said, I've neverhad experience with jiu-jitsu at
all.
But it's based on the principle.
So it's not like they'repreparing, preparing you to go
fight at a competition oranything they're.
They're preparing you to getaway to safety if you're
attacked.
And I can continue going on ifyou want me to.
Speaker 5 (04:46):
Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yeah, I'm curious to hear more about it and her
husband, just so you know is awrestler, so he does wrestling,
so he's like very big.
So we were talking about likehow, if somebody were to attack
us I don't know, since we've hadthis conversation, she always
talks about like if you pull upto a gas station, are you aware
if you're the only female there?
We talked about how males don'thave to really worry about
someone stealing their you knowthings, or attacking them or
(05:09):
things like that but I'm neveraware.
I'm always getting out of thecar with my phone, with my keys,
like I'm.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
You know, I'm never aware of my surroundings, and so
now I'm like getting out of mycar and that's what they talk
about kind of in the beginning,and some of the first things
that you learn is the in thisparticular class and I'm sure
there's self-defense classesthat have some version of this
somehow but the first kind ofthings you learn are the four
phases of an attack, if it's bya stranger, which is identify an
(05:38):
unsuspecting target.
That's number one.
So, and then our instructoralways told us that it's going
to be someone who's maybe theirshoulders are down or they're
looking down at the ground, orthey're busy on their phone, or
they're carrying a bunch ofstuff in their hands and not
paying attention to theirsurroundings, or maybe they've
parked way off in a parking lotthat's isolated or something
(06:01):
like that.
And I've always heard beforethis class that women with
ponytails are always a goodtarget because it's easy to grab
.
Wow, so that number one isidentify an unsuspecting target
is the first phase of an attack,so that's what the attacker
would do.
And then number two is tosubdue and isolate the victim,
(06:24):
and let's see.
I wrote some notes down, butbasically our instructor told us
that this is the phase whereyou really want to do your best
to try not to go with someone tosomewhere else, which we've
probably heard before in otherscenarios just don't go to that
second location, you know.
And so this is the point wheresomeone's trying to grab you and
(06:45):
physically move you away fromwhere you are.
And let's see here, and ifthey're at that point, if
they're asking for something,like if they have a weapon, for
example, if they're asking forsomething or not really asking,
demanding like your money oryour purse or some jewelry or
something, at that point justgive it to them, because he
always says it's never worthyour life or getting hurt.
(07:09):
So at that point if you can getrid of them, that's great.
But anyway, that's the stagetwo.
And then the third one, if theyget you subdued and isolated, is
that the attacker's goal is tocontrol and exhaust you, and
(07:29):
usually this stage ends up onthe ground.
And so there's tons and tons ofmoves in jiu-jitsu that when
you're on the ground it'sactually to your advantage.
It doesn't sound intuitive,especially for women, because
normally an attacker is going tobe a sexual attack, but
actually there's tons and tonsof things you can do on the
ground to defend yourself.
(07:49):
And so he's always talkingabout or our instructor is
always talking about you want totrain and know these moves so
well that when you're on theground you're doing the moves
with a smile, not maybe, notliterally, but the idea, idea
that you're not wearing yourselfout and you're not panicked and
using up all your energybecause you don't want to get
(08:12):
exhausted at that point whenyou're on the ground, because
you're probably going againstsomeone who's much bigger and
stronger and your stamina isprobably not going to match
theirs, your strength is notgoing to match theirs.
So you want to kind of conserveyour energy and if you know the
moves well enough and thetechniques of what they taught
us, the theory is anyway thatyou can do that, just like with
(08:36):
muscle memory, and that you'renot using a lot of energy.
And then, obviously, the fourthphase of an attack is for the
attacker to carry out theassault and hopefully, you know
it never gets to that point.
But those are the four stagesIdentify an unsuspecting target,
which, if I could get a messageacross and what I share with my
friends is that's the numberone.
(08:57):
And, like you said, you know,just become more aware of your
surroundings when you're out andabout and think about the way
you carry yourself.
And I will tell you that afterthis course I think about it all
the time, particularly if I'mwalking in a parking lot.
I try to carry myself a littlemore confidently Some of it's
conscious and some of it'sunconscious because I feel kind
of, if I can say this kind ofbadass now.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
I got my pink belt.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, with your shoulders back and like if
someone's if's, let's say ifyou're in the mind of an
attacker, if there's two peopleto choose from, am I going to
choose the woman that is likewalking confidently and with a
purpose and is looking around,or somebody that's kind of like
this with shoulders crunchedover or on their phone.
So anyway, that first phase isvery important, to kind of
(09:46):
understand and kind of make itpart of your everyday life, of
thinking about it each time yougo out.
And then just to repeat, thenumber two is subdue and isolate
, three control and exhaust andfour carry out the attack.
So that's for a strangerattacking you.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
It's so funny because I think people's initial I know
what I'm like on my phone.
I sometimes get on my phone toavoid eye contact.
So, it's more.
It's like the messages seemmixed because it's like I don't
want to draw attention to myself.
And then sometimes I know whatyou're saying.
You want to be confident andyou're.
If you look around.
And I know we had thisconversation off the air,
talking about making eye contactand talking to somebody that
(10:24):
they're less likely to attackyou, but it just seems so
strange to do.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
It does seem strange and I will tell you that when I
first started some of the thingsand I'll tell you a couple
techniques here in a minute thatdidn't come naturally and you
don't necessarily think oh,that's.
Or intuitively think, oh, Iwould do that in this instance.
Or because you do want to.
Oh, I don't want anybody tobother me, I don't want to get
(10:50):
trapped in a conversation and Idon't want that gross guy, you
know, looking at me.
So I'm just going to lookstraight, you know.
So you kind of do have toconsciously think about it for a
while.
You kind of change yourbehavior a little bit, you know.
You kind of change yourbehavior a little bit, you know,
and unfortunately I was tellingPam earlier that, you know, I
wish it wasn't the case.
But for us women in particularI know men can also be victims,
(11:13):
but in particular women that'sjust the state of affairs.
So we just have to, you know,bring it up a notch and protect
ourselves.
Speaker 5 (11:21):
I do At 4'11".
When I get out of my car, I tryto walk like a badass.
I act like I'm scared ofnothing, even though I'm really
scared of everything because Iwant to look confident.
So I've always kind of had thatmindset, without knowing, you
know I just I wanted to looklike, hey, I shouldn't be messed
with, but really.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Yeah, I think the fear for me was always, like you
know, being on the subway inNew York and if you make eye
contact with somebody in NewYork and they start shouting at
you, you're like, oh, what am Isupposed to do?
So I think that kind of andgrowing up in a city as well,
you would never make eye contactwith people on the street, but
I do get it.
When you're on your own andyou're in an isolated part, you
want to make sure that you'reconfident and you're talking to
(11:59):
them and you're moving and justkeep going and act as confident
as you can.
It's just, it's so hard to knowwhat to do in this situation.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
And another thing that kind of after we've learned
these phases, one piece of, oractually one of the first moves
or techniques that he teaches usis okay, let's say you do run
into somebody that kept eyecontact with you and then maybe
he always gives the example.
You're at a gas station, forexample, pumping your gas,
minding your own business, andsome guy comes up and maybe you
(12:28):
glanced at him before and hestill keeps coming to you,
walking, and says, oh, can I getthe time?
Or hey, can I borrow a dollar.
A lot of times you'llinstinctively feel either
awkward or creeped out awkwardor creeped out.
But also, as women, we are kindof socially trained to be
(12:48):
polite, be nice, and oh, can Ihelp you?
Or sure, I can give you thetime.
But what I learned in this isthat you have to find your voice
.
So if you do have thatencounter where someone is not
letting go of your eyesight andcoming closer to you or asking
for something, this technique iscalled stop, block and frame.
(13:11):
So stop, that's the number one.
You put your hand up likeyou're stopping traffic and you
have to find your voice whereit's strong and you mean
business, not like, oh, stop,but you have to say stop.
I said stay back.
And if it's a good guy and youjust made a mistake and they
really did want the time a goodguy is going to say oh I'm so
(13:34):
sorry, I'm so sorry forbothering you, I didn't mean to
scare you.
So even if you're a little bitembarrassed for that awkward
encounter, you're safe andyou're creating a behavioral
pattern for yourself.
But if it's a bad guy, firstyou've raised your voice and
maybe other people have heardyou, you've drawn attention to
(13:56):
yourself and then you've kind ofgiven the message like I'm not
playing around, you can stayback.
And then, if the person isstill coming at you, there's
some moves that you can do thateasily push them out of the way.
You wouldn't think it, but Itell you it's just the wildest
thing.
I mean you can have a 300 pounddude coming at you and you know
you put both hands on theirshoulders and you kind of lean
(14:19):
into them and then use theirweight and they're leaning
towards you to kind of push themout of the way.
It's kind of hard to explainwith not doing it and on a
podcast, but the point of meexplaining that technique was to
find your voice and us womendon't have to be so polite and
I'm guilty of it all the time.
Oh, I'm so sorry.
(14:40):
Oh, I'm sorry.
My girlfriends at work wealways talk about okay, you're
going to owe a dollar if you saysorry one more time for some
innocuous thing.
So, finding your voice andbeing okay with saying no, stay
away, this is my personal spaceand really raising your voice
and I think you can get over theembarrassment if it's going to
(15:00):
protect yourself, you know,eventually that's great.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
I wouldn't think to do that, I would think ah, that
would be my response.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
I still think in this day and age.
It's amazing, though, still,how men will approach you for
things when they all know.
I always assume that they knowI'm like you must know that this
is scary to us, but they don'tseem to.
They still like.
I had a and I was out walkingthe dog a couple of weeks ago.
It was super early in themorning and there was nobody
around and I live very close toa softball field and I had the
(15:33):
dog with me and as I was walkingaround, there's like a dirt
road and there was nobody around.
It was was cold in Georgia, sonobody ever walks when it's cold
in Georgia and a car pulled upon the dirt part, the dirt path
right beside me, but they kindof blocked me as I was walking
with the dog.
Now I took one look in the carand I knew they were
missionaries, so I was like, oh,it's okay, but I'm still
(15:55):
astounded by the fact that Iknow there were young guys.
But I was like this is so wrong.
There's nobody around.
You've pulled a car straight upbeside me and you want to talk
to me and I'm like standing away.
And thankfully the dog was.
You know, he wasn't veryfriendly to them, but I was
still like this it's so wrongand I just don't understand in
this day and age how men thinkit's okay to do that.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
It's not something they have to worry about.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
They don't have to think about it.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
So it's not on their mind.
Yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
That is scary.
You would think that peoplewould have more social cues.
They were very young.
They were very young.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
But I did give the two local churches a call to let
them know that this is not okay.
To be honest, if I had been adifferent person here in Georgia
and I was carrying, that mightnot have ended very well,
exactly, and I was trying toexplain that it wasn't like for
these poor young guys out.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
You know trying to spread the word so yeah we were
talking earlier.
So I had a client that wastelling me that she was in a
different country, and they do alot of times there's like
techniques and things thatthey'll do, like if you look
like you're lost and you'relooking at your phone and trying
to figure out where you'regoing, and she said that they
just stepped away from theluggage for like literally two
seconds to look at a phonebecause the guy was like, can I
help you?
Speaker 4 (17:05):
But he was working with somebody else and so he's
like can I help?
Speaker 3 (17:08):
you and they're like, oh, we're looking for this
hotel.
As soon as they said we're justlooking, got the luggage that
had passport, I mean everything.
The entire trip like ruined andlike left.
And you shared a story aboutsomething similar.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah, I took a trip, and I don't think I told you
this, but back when I worked atDelta, I was going to just take
a trip by myself, because youknow, it's easy to fly when
you're an employee, and so Idecided just to go to Peru at
the last minute and this waswhen I was single and luckily my
mother, who also worked forDelta, decided at the last
(17:44):
minute to come with me.
And the reason I was lucky isbecause I got robbed on the way
from the airport to the hotel wewere staying at, because the
person broke the window of thecab we were in and literally
launched inside the cab andgrabbed my bag that I had kept
on the floorboard of the car,which had all my money, you know
, some special items and thingslike that.
(18:05):
So of course I freaked out andluckily my mother was there, so
I had, you know, someone, andit's a long story, but it what I
was telling Pam was the onething that I learned for sure is
like keep your importantdocuments and your money on your
person.
Yeah, and especially, you knowwe're talking about especially
going international, becauseI've had a friend that
(18:27):
pickpocketed, lost their phone,so you just feel so violated,
and then you're somewhere youdon't really know well, yeah,
and you're without anything.
But yeah, it definitely opensyour eyes and I'm more alert,
even when I travel now too.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
I came back from a trip late at night.
I took a red-eye.
Got home and got back to thecarport or the car parking area.
I couldn't remember where Iparked my car, so I was like
doing loops and loops.
I kept hitting my little alarmbutton trying to find my car.
I couldn't find it and therewas a group of two guys that
kept circling around.
It was like two in the morning.
(19:02):
They kept circling around theparking lot.
I thought I'm about to die.
There was no one around and mythought was, if they get me, I'm
going to claw the heck out ofthem.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
So at least they can get my DNA or their DNA out.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
I was so terrified I thought I'm done, but I'm going
to fight.
I'll get out and get some DNAon my fingernails.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
It's so sad we have to live like that, but I was
thinking that the whole time.
Speaker 5 (19:17):
I'm like, yeah, they're going to have a fight
before I go down.
That's all I know.
That's what I was thinking.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
I think it's sad.
How many people, though, likeeven my clients have stories
like that.
You know where it's, just likeone're crossing the street, and
so they always like, okay, go tothe other side, you know, like
you read all of the things to do, but in that moment it's just
terrifying and you're justthinking, oh gosh, what do I do?
(19:45):
How do I get away?
And part of like what we weretalking about, because obviously
my daughter's getting ready togo to college and she's like
five foot one and like tiny,like you know, barely 100 pounds
and I was thinking, wow, you,what if something?
You know the whole UGA thing,you know she's going to college
there.
What if that had been her Causeshe exercises and those kinds
of things?
And so what I liked about whatyou were saying that I think
would be good for her and likeall of us, is like it's not
(20:07):
about your size.
You know that you can, like youcan really work with you know
your size and angles and thingslike that to help get someone
like away and to get to safety.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
And the big thing with this particular class and
the art of jujitsu itself is healways talked.
Our instructor always talksabout you.
Use space and leverage.
Those are the two words I wastrying to make sure I remember,
because one thing they alwayssay is that whoever the person
that controls the space,controls the fight and includes
(20:47):
not just, as I was describingbefore, when someone walks up to
you and you try to keep thedistance before they get in your
personal space.
That also means if I'm down onthe ground with someone and
someone's like, kneeing downbetween my legs and has their
body over top of me, there'smoves in this course that I took
over top of me.
There's moves in this coursethat I took and I'm again
disclaimer, I am no expert byany means, but this just really
spoke to me and I was able toreally latch on to some of the
principles they were talkingabout.
(21:07):
But when you're in close, youcan use your arms and forearms
together to form like a frameagainst someone, because what
you don't want to do is if I'mon the ground with some huge guy
, I'm not going to try to punchhim.
That because if it becomes apunching fight, obviously I'm
going to lose?
Yeah, because I'm not as strong, I'm not as big, so I have to
(21:30):
use other ways to control thespace between me and him, create
space between me and him so Ican do certain moves.
One of the moves that's famousin this jujitsu is the shrimp
move, so it helps you get outfrom under them and then you can
use your legs to kick at theperson right in the face.
I mean it sounds super violent,but it really works for people
(21:53):
who are smaller.
And our instructor saysactually there's tons of
advantages if you're smaller.
Even if you're in a competitivesport with jujitsu or other
martial arts, this particularone is almost advantageous for a
smaller person.
It's harder for the biggerperson to find those spaces
within.
So I thought that was supercool.
(22:15):
These are things that I justthey're not on my radar at all,
that I would never think andthat's why, to me, like some of
the moves were, they weren'tintuitive at all.
I had no idea how I would dothat, because usually in the
beginning of our class he'll saywell, when he's demonstrating a
move for the first time, isokay, what?
What do you think is a commonreaction to you?
Know, some guy hold pinningyour arms back above your head,
(22:38):
and then we'd say you know youwiggle or you try to pull them
down, and basically you do a lotof the opposite of what you
think.
So that's why I think it'simportant for women to take a
class.
If it's not this one, I meanthere's many other types, but
this particular one made senseto me and I just thought it was
cool how you know the physics ofit all.
Speaker 5 (22:57):
So this wasn't just a local thing.
The pink belt is somethingthat's like nationwide.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
The particular class I went to is Gracie Balance
Academy in Peachtree City, andthe Gracie name for those who
aren't familiar with this art isa very popular name.
It was a guy back many yearsago that formed Brazilian
jiu-jitsu and he got it from theJapanese, I believe, but he
kind of modified it for himselfand his whole family is the name
(23:26):
Gracie, and they're all overthe United States.
I think they're headquarteredin California, so I'm not an
expert on the history either,but it's all over the country
these academies or studios wherethey and they have classes for
kids for like bullying andthings like that.
How to you know defend for kidsin the women's one, and then
(23:46):
they also do ones that are moretraditional classes where people
who may want to, you know,compete or spar with people and
things of that nature.
But right now all I really knowabout is the women's one.
Speaker 5 (23:57):
What was the most shocking thing that you heard in
that whole class?
What was the thing thatsurprised you the most?
Speaker 2 (24:02):
That the smaller person is an advantage.
Honestly, and our instructor,he himself is not a huge guy but
he's a five degree black belt,so I'm sure he could probably
take me down with a pinky, buthe and he, he was really good at
telling stories about when hewas a kid and when he first
(24:23):
started learning it, how he wasable to, you know, use some of
the techniques against biggerpeople and just some of the
simple moves that make thebiggest difference.
It's hard to really understandit until you kind of see it
yourself.
But and you know I'm notnecessarily commercial for this
particular class, although Ilove it and I would recommend it
(24:43):
but any kind of self-defense, Ithink, is good for women to
pick up, and I think there'ssome universal points too, like
the be aware of yoursurroundings type thing and also
just what you get out of it.
So you know, for me what I gotout of it in general is, you
know, a little more air ofconfidence.
I'm not too much of a physical,active person, I'm not a sports
(25:04):
person or anything like that,but just being able to oh, I can
do these things.
I'd never knew I could do that.
And so the feeling ofconfidence and just having an
accomplishment and that, for mybrain, works.
I thought it was really good tohave like an end goal, you know,
of the pink belt.
That's what I'm striving for,so that kind of helped me
(25:25):
continue on and stay with it,because I wanted to accomplish
something and I've also found.
One thing I really liked aboutit was all the women you know
gained friends from it and we'reall very supportive of each
other and I thought that wasjust super cool and I had so
much help when I told some folksthat I was going to be testing
for the pink belt.
(25:46):
So many of the women were, youknow, took extra time with me
and helped me train and drilland all that and were very
encouraging.
So you know, I'm all aboutempowering women literally
that's the name of the class,but I like that aspect of it too
because it's kind of like asisterhood and I thought that
(26:06):
was cool.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
I think two things that we talked about that would
be interesting.
One is not to be too muchinformation.
We were talking about choking.
I guess you think the strongeryou choke the better, but it
really is about how strong youdo it, but the duration, so that
part of it.
And then also you were sayingthat you train about how to get
a weapon from someone.
But if you get the weapon youhave to use it.
You can't just get a weapon andthen try to run or leave.
(26:28):
So that's a hard.
I think women would have a lotof thought about those things.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Yeah, on the choking thing, so you can use.
They give you some techniqueson how to choke someone if you
needed to, if there was aninstance where you needed to,
and they're very careful abouthow they teach that and you work
with a partner throughout theclass so you have to be careful
(26:54):
you don't go full force oranything like that.
But we were taught that, okay,if you hold a choke, you can
have someone pass outunconsciously within six seconds
.
If you hold it longer than that, they're going to be out for a
lot longer time 30 seconds youcan start creeping into a time
where they might not come backand so again, this goes back to
the training where you want tohave that in the back of your
(27:19):
mind when you're performing thatparticular technique of choking
, because you use in your braintime versus strength.
So if I'm going to choke you,I'm going to try to.
If you can count in seconds one, two, three, all the way to six
and that can give you some timeto get away if you need to.
But you may be in a crazycircumstance where you can't get
(27:47):
away to safety really quickly.
So you can take further stepsto make that person you know go
out longer or, if you have to,you know, have them never come
back, and so those are thingsyou train on and, again, I would
never have known any of thosekinds of things about how long
it takes strength, yeah, youthink it would be a matter of
fact, they tell you, when youperform the choking moves you
(28:09):
have, you should start slowlyrather than expending all your
energy at once and doing itreally hard, because you're
going to get tired and out ofthat battle.
If you're doing it really fastversus the guy that's trying to
survive, that he's going tooutlast you.
So that's why you kind of wantto perform a choke slowly and
(28:30):
use that counting in your brainto kind of gauge where you are
or what you're going to end upwith, so to speak.
You mentioned the weapons.
Do you want me to talk aboutthat for a second?
Okay, so whenever we did aweapons class and I don't handle
weapons in my personal life oranything like that, so I was
completely out of character ornot character, but just
(28:52):
completely new to me, and so healways took it very seriously
and we practiced with rubberknives and rubber guns, and so
the idea is, if someone's comingwith you with a weapon kind of
to harken back to what I spokeabout in the beginning the first
thing is, if they're asking formaterial things, just give it
(29:12):
to them.
It's not worth it.
Your wallet, your purse, yourwatch, your jewelry, just go
ahead and give it.
It's not worth, you know,getting injured for sure.
And then, if you know, if it'sa situation where they want more
than that, if they're, you know, obviously trying to sexually
assault you or, you know,physically harm you, you know
(29:32):
you have the ability to make adecision if you're willing to
put up a fight or not.
If you decide, yes, I'm goingto fight this, then there's
techniques to disengage theweapon from them.
And if that happens, you haveto be willing to use that on the
person.
So when you say at some pointin the technique, you say, drop
(29:56):
the weapon, because after you'vebroken their arm, for example,
and you pick up the weapon, youneed to use that, because the
problem is, if you don't, thenthere's a chance that they could
come back and use it on you,and most likely they would at
that point, because they'regoing to be super mad that you
just did all these cool moves onthem and hurt them, you know.
So you have to have thatmindset too.
(30:18):
And again, that goes back totraining and just being really
comfortable with the moves andknowing what to do, so that
you're not, you know, deep inthought when you're at that
moment of, and have that moraldecision of oh gosh, this means
I might be taking someone's life.
It just has to be kind ofmuscle memory and you just know
what to do.
So if you made the decision toput up that fight, then that's
(30:41):
what you need to do, and thensometimes it's a win if you just
survive and I don't think thatyou can always.
You know there's notnecessarily one better way or
the other.
It's your decision how you wantto.
You know if you are just therelaying there and you know
waiting, if you survive, that'sa win too.
So there's lots of, I guess,theories and philosophies about
(31:04):
how to do all that and the bestmethods, and I'm sure there's
other classes that havedifferent takes and things of
that nature.
So it's just something to thinkabout and I think, even if
we're just thinking about it andtalking about it, I think that
is important because it gets ourmind thinking about protecting
ourselves in general.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
I think one of the simplest things you said is
probably the most useful for me,because I still think, until I
took a course and had moreconfidence, I'd still freak out
in the end or just take outrunning instead.
But I think the whole stop ifsomeone's approaching you
because it does feel awkward andembarrassing.
But you're right, if it'ssomebody normal who's not trying
to cause a problem, thenthey're going to be like oh okay
, this chick's crazy, I'm goingto leave her alone, you know.
(31:44):
So that's one time to lookcrazy and be embarrassed, I
guess so.
I think that's really useful,because that's something I think
I could do for sure you.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Like I said, if it's a good guy, they're gonna be.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean toscare you and we have to get
over that as women, particularlyof being a little bit
embarrassed or, you know, beinga little bit having that awkward
moment with someone, and thenyou can.
If it's a good guy, then youcan just kind of laugh about it
and say, oh, whatever, okay, youreally do need the time, you
(32:11):
know, and you know, go on aboutyour life, but if it's a bad guy
, then you want to do what youneed to do.
Yeah, bring attention toyourself and, like I said, find
your voice is the other thing.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
Just wish the good guys were just a little cleverer
sometimes and not approach you.
If we could just teach themthat.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
But you make a good point because, as a mother of
boys and as a mother of boys,what would you teach them or
tell them?
Because they don't think aboutfear in the ways I think that
people say like I think of acollege student.
A male is not thinking aboutfear like a female student
walking around campus by herselfor like you walking around the
airport, you know, looking foryour car by yourself, like they
(32:54):
may have been there to help youlegit, but you don't feel it
that way and they they wouldn'tsee how you feel things.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
Does that make?
Don't feel it that way and they, they wouldn't see how you feel
things.
That makes sense.
I also.
I know we also had thisconversation before and I think
sometimes you know the unlessthey look really scary, you're
not as scared.
So, like you know, if agood-looking guy approaches you,
you're not on guard, you'rekind of you know, whereas if
somebody looks a little dodgy,you're going, I'm going to keep
away from them, but I just it'sjust so hard for women, you just
(33:23):
don't know like who's apredator, who's not because it's
crazy, some of the biggestpredators were very normal
looking or handsome looking tedbundy and most women are killed
by people they know as well,which I also think is the crazy
situation then, because thenyour guard is completely down.
You know at least, not at least,but when it's random at least
(33:45):
maybe in some way you have thatchance to react.
But I think when you knowsomebody you know is your
attacker that's actually perfect.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Segue into one other thing I was going to mention, if
I have a few minutes, is thatyou remember in the beginning I
talked about the four stages ofan attack of a stranger.
There's actually talked aboutthe four stages of an attack of
a stranger.
There's actually the same thingfour stages of an attack for a
non-stranger, and the first oneis intrusion and that's
basically like little tinymoments you know, every day, and
(34:15):
they may build.
It may start with just touchingyour hand, or then it might the
person may gently rub up theshoulder the next day, then it
might be to a small you know,messing with your hair, or then
rubbing your back and you mightfeel, you know, we've all felt
that, at least I have many timesbecause people like to invade
(34:36):
your space and not think aboutthat's your person, that's your
body, so those little everydaythings that may happen.
So if someone has badintentions, they're probably
going to start with those littletiny intrusions every day.
It could be a co-worker or afamily member or a friend that
they just get a little bit moreinto your personal space.
So that's stage one for anon-stranger, those little
(34:59):
intrusions.
A second stage isdesensitization.
So they've.
You know they've done it sooften, they're kind of numb to
it, so you're not necessarilythinking about it now as what it
really is.
You know because they've doneit so often, I mean you become
used to it.
The third stage is isolation,which, as you remember in the
(35:19):
other one with a stranger, thesame kind of thing.
So so this person, if they knowyou, they, they may know your
schedule, they may know yourinterest and know where you will
be, and then they may knowwhere is a good opportunity,
where you're going to be aloneor something like that.
So that isolation and gettingaway, getting you away from
people you know, to carry outsome sort of attack, which is
(35:42):
the fourth stage.
So if they have you isolatedand they're able to overcome all
your techniques, if you'velearned any, then they'll carry
out the attack there.
So I thought that was anotherinteresting aspect of this.
What I've learned from thisclass is those little steps for
people that know you, because Ireally had that happen more.
You know now that I'm reallythinking about it.
(36:03):
I've had that happen more thanI would have imagined.
You've probably felt this inyour own life.
Oh, that's a little creepy.
I don't like someone to comerub my back.
I don't know you that well, youknow.
And again, that's when you haveto find that voice within you,
just like with a stranger, whereyou're saying you have to put
your hand up and say stop, stayback.
(36:24):
Well, with someone that youknow, you know if they put their
arm on you or your shoulder orwhatever you say, you know I'm a
little uncomfortable with that.
Can you please step back out ofmy personal space Again?
Us women, we're going to be,you know, we've been trained to
be polite and you know not makeanybody feel bad.
But you got to get over that.
(36:44):
You just got to stand up foryourself.
You know it's your body, it'syour personal space and if it's
making you feel awkward, justsay you know you don't have to
be, you know, necessarily meanor yell it.
Just be assertive.
Hopefully, you know, someonewill get the picture and just
say you know that's making mefeel uncomfortable, I don't need
you to do that.
Can you back up, please, anduse that assertive tone?
(37:08):
So, yeah, you have to thinkabout that in your everyday life
too.
Speaker 4 (37:13):
I think kids are getting better at that, though I
mean, they're definitely betterthan when we were younger.
You know, I can see a difference.
I always remember the boys onthe bus and I was always saying
to them you're not to put yourhands on somebody else's body,
like, even as kids go, do not.
You do not touch anotherperson's body, keep your hands
to yourself, don't do anything.
But I do think that messagewith kids is better now than it
(37:37):
was when we were growing up,because I think we were stuck in
that you have to be polite.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
And I think we're getting better.
Certainly our daughters aregetting a little bit better and
I think because our age, ourparents, our age are also
bringing it up more to the kids.
My best friend, she talks toher kids.
He was in elementary schoolabout knowing what consent is,
you know so, and I, as a motherof a boy, a young boy, I want to
teach him those things consentalso, but, as I think you were
talking about earlier.
(38:07):
So they know and understandpersonal space and know that
they just can't walk up to agirl and just put their hands on
them for and it could be foreven, you know, innocuous
reasons they don't have badintent, but they should, you
know, I hope to you know,explain and hope my son
understands why that is notacceptable or appropriate,
(38:29):
because I don't, you know, itdoesn't necessarily come
naturally, especially if younever talk about it.
So hopefully we're raising goodboys.
Speaker 5 (38:36):
That's all I can hope for I think it's cool that fact
that you said that you knowbecause I picture a lot of times
with this self-defense is thatmore someone who's already
really athletic, because I would, you know, croak if I was in a
boxing competition or karate.
So it's cool to hear you saythat you got that confidence
just by learning the appropriatemaneuvers and you don't
necessarily have to be, you know, a bodybuilder or really
(38:59):
athletic.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
I am not the picture of an athletic person, but
anybody can do these techniques,even if you're.
You know, you don't have to bean Olympic athlete and you don't
have to be massively big orstrong necessarily, and for me
it was easy, simple things thatjust made it worth trying to
(39:20):
really understand.
So I think you know, I thinkit's important for women to find
something that they feelcomfortable with, because I've
never done any of these kind ofclasses.
So, and as our instructor says,sometimes when we have, you
know, seminars or the firstclass, just the person walking
in the door, sometimes that'sthe win for that person, because
(39:41):
it takes a lot if you're notused to it or if you're a little
intimidated, thinking, oh, thisis related to jujitsu, but you
don't have to know those kind ofthings, you don't have to be
athletic, you don't have to havecertain qualities.
So you do have to find a placeor a class or things that make
you feel comfortable enough tostick with it so you learn about
(40:01):
it.
A particular one just happenedto be, you know, find me at the
right time in my life, which I'mvery thankful for.
So, yeah, I'm promoting allself-defense classes.
Speaker 4 (40:13):
But of course I love this one that's so important,
though I've never done oneeither, I mean it feels like
something we should have alldone at some point in our lives,
because we spend most of thetime being terrified.
So it's like it should havebeen something we did.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Yeah, I don't know about you guys, but ever since I
was a teenager, if I was in theparking lot, I was always I
don't know if this was from anOprah show walk with that one
key sticking out, ready to fight.
Yeah, always, yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
I don't think about that as much as I should, but I
do think that as females, wehave an issue of being finding
our voice and I feel like whatyou said about finding your
voice is the biggest part forsome people.
And I feel like, obviously,petrie city, the bubble, you
know people are, there's notmuch crime here, there's not
much.
But I've had several clients,you know, carjacked, you know
attacked or stolen, whateverit's everywhere, most recently,
I think, you know, with lake andriley, whatever it's everywhere
(41:01):
.
Speaker 5 (41:02):
Most recently, I think you know, with Lake and
Riley.
I mean, that was just such aheartbreaking case because she
was just jogging, you know, on acampus which you would think
would be safe in the morning, soit's not like a late night out,
you know, in an isolated area.
So I think that just with thatit just makes us remember it can
really happen anywhere, anytime, and not necessarily in a place
that seems, you know, adangerous place.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Exactly, yeah, just be prepared, and hopefully you
know something bad could stillhappen, but you know at least
you're as prepared as much asyou possibly can be you want
every advantage if you can, youknow.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
Yeah, I think.
The other thing and this is offtopic, but I was watching
something I guess it was acouple of weeks ago, but like a
bullying situation, and thisgirl was really like she almost
died.
She was in the hospital incritical condition, but
everyone's like watching andfilming, but people don't really
like intervene.
It's kind of like that strangerbystander.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
You know, people don't get involved.
I just can't imagine.
I mean, we always hope, or atleast I would always, I to.
Oh, surely I would do something, you know, surely I would step
in, of course, kind of don't you?
Speaker 5 (42:04):
think the mom instinct you'd have to.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
I mean it's so interesting how people don't,
and that's like one of the bigpsychology studies.
It was in new york.
There was a girl that wasgetting beaten and was yelling
out and she actually was killed.
And the next day they likeinterviewed people and talked to
them and most everyone heard,but everyone thought that
somebody else was calling orsomebody else was calling the
police or somebody else wasdoing something, and actually no
one did anything.
And so I think about also notjust that person and that
(42:30):
struggle, but like what we cando if we ever are cognizant or
aware of someone going throughsomething, and how we can like
jump in and help or like trainboys and sons and people to like
you know help and don'tapproach somebody in a certain
way.
You know ways and techniques togo about helping others.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
I think about what I tell my son almost every day is
you know, is there anybody youcan help today?
Who are you kind to today?
Make sure you're.
You know, and again it goesback to that, you know,
hopefully we're raising reallygood, strong, helpful, kind men
eventually that know all thesethings already and aren't like
trying to catch up when they'readults.
(43:08):
You know so, it's ingrained inthem.
So that's, I'm trying to do mypart with my son.
That's all I can do andhopefully encourage others,
because I tell you what, ladies,if I can do this, anybody can.
Because I tell you what.
Ladies, if I can do this,anybody can, if I can.
When I went back and took mytest Pam mentioned in the
(43:28):
beginning how I showed her apicture of myself after the test
my face was so beet red Ithought I was going to pass out
because I was nervous first totake this test and then I had
some adrenaline going and it isquite an exhausting test, just
naturally.
But if I can get through it, Ithink anyone can and hopefully,
(43:51):
you know, someone hears me andthey're encouraged to maybe try
something they never thoughtthey would do.
Like I said, this is out of myrealm, but I I feel like so
accomplished and like it's soworth it.
I have like a, an actual, legitskill to help myself and I'm
going to continue learning withand training because I want to
(44:12):
keep that skill up and hopefully, you know, hopefully I'll never
, ever have to use it.
But I like sharing theinformation because I thought it
was so, so cool.
Speaker 5 (44:20):
I love that and I think we're all women so we're
talking about pink belt, but Ithink honestly, like as I'm
thinking about this, I wouldn'tI'm a mom of boys to have them
take a self-defense becauseobviously we're all vulnerable.
So just how we respond in thosesituations, I think is really
important.
So thank you so much you havebeen awesome and it's such a
great message it gave meencouragement that I could maybe
.
Speaker 4 (44:39):
We're going to do it.
We're going to do it.
I'm going to bring all thegirls on my house to go do this.
Speaker 5 (44:43):
Yes, we're actually going to host a self-defense
class, so I will tell you whenwe do.
Speaker 4 (44:47):
Oh, that's so good.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
We've been working it out Excellent, amazing.
Speaker 5 (44:50):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
Well, thank you so much, thank you, thank you
ladies, thank you for joiningthe ladies of the Middle Age-ish
podcast as they journey throughthe ups and downs of this not
young but definitely not oldseason of life.
To hear past episodes or makesuggestions for future episodes,
(45:12):
visit wwwmiddleageishcom.
That's wwwmiddleageishcom.
You can follow along on socialmedia at Middle Age-ish Also, if
you have a moment, to leave areview rate and subscribe.
That helps others find the showand we greatly appreciate it.
Once again, thank you so muchfor joining us and we'll catch
(45:35):
you in the next episode of theMiddle Age-ish Podcast.
Welcome to the Middle Age-ish Podcast.
Authentically andunapologetically, keeping it
real, Discussing all thingsMiddle Age-ish, A time when
metabolism slows and confidencegrows.
Join fashion and fitnessentrepreneur Ashley Badowski,
former Celtic woman and founderof the Lisa Kelly Voice Academy.
Lisa Kelly licensedpsychologist and mental health
(00:24):
expert, Dr Pam Wright and highlysought after cosmetic injector
and board certified nursepractitioner, Tricia Kennedy
Roman.
Join your hosts on the journeyof Middle Age-ish.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of Middle
Age-ish Podcast.
I am Dr Pam Wright and I'm herewith my co-host, lisa Kelly,
and Tricia Kennedy-Roman, and weare missing our third wheel
tonight, ashley, unfortunatelyshe can't be here.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
No, we miss her.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
We do.
We miss you Ashley.
Yeah, we miss you, ashley, buttoday we do have with us Rebecca
Griffin.
So excited to have you.
So Rebecca is actually a goodfriend of mine, went to the same
high school, but I'm not goingto tell you which one of us
graduated earlier, because we'rejust going to pretend we're the
same age.
But I've known her forever and Iwanted to have her on the show
because we had a conversationafter there was a girl that was
(01:14):
murdered who was running at theUniversity of Georgia Very sad
story and we just startedtalking about it and she was
telling me like, oh yeah, likeyou know, when people are
looking for someone to attack,this is what they do and you
don't have to be like big to beable to fight people off and
those kind of things.
So the day I actually talked toher about this, she was going
to get her pink belt, which is aI was thinking, okay, black
(01:34):
belt, where's pink belt?
I've never seen the pink belt,even though my son did karate,
but in jujitsu there's a pinkbelt and that's why you actually
went right to this facility isbecause it's not about muscles,
but it's about you can be smalland use your height, everything
to help fight and do someself-defense.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
For smaller people or weaker people, and the course
is actually called Women'sEmpowered and it's a
self-defense course.
That has in Brazilian jiu-jitsu.
So I didn't know anything aboutit at all.
I haven't done martial arts inmy whole life, never interested
(02:14):
or anything but I went to a freeseminar and just learned a
couple of small things.
It was a two-hour seminar andthe moves were so simple and
they're not necessarilyintuitive, if you don't
understand it, but they were sosimple and so effective and I
was just reeled in and I thought, well, yeah, I definitely want
(02:35):
to do this and I want to helpother people too.
So that was two years ago andin this particular jiu-jitsu
self-defense course, the endgoal is to get a quote-unquote
pink belt and it's literally thecolor pink, so you're not
wearing your white belt anymoreand the pink belt is only for
this particular class and itdoesn't always take two years,
(02:58):
like me, but you could do itfaster or slower, but it just
happened to take me two years.
So that's how I got started init and became interested in it.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Yeah, but she sent me a picture of her face after she
did the test.
I mean, you have to do allthese things and they film you
and then they have to submit itto people who review what you've
done to make sure that you dideverything accurately.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, it's videoed, which I hated.
But you do the test.
It's about 45 minutes or so andyou go through all the moves
and you can take little breaksbut about warm you out.
Our instructor, who's a blackbelt he's a five-degree black
belt he said actually it's thehardest test out of all the
belts, this women's course.
So I thought that was like well, thank goodness, so I don't
(03:41):
feel too bad.
But yeah, so I have my pinkbelt now and it was like I said
this was just out of the blue.
It's not anything in myexperience I've done before, or
interest or anything like that,but I'm glad I did it.
So there you have it.
So, you just woke up one day andyou're like I'm going to do a
(04:02):
women's self-defense course.
Well, I've always wanted to.
I wanted to do some sort ofself-defense course.
Yeah, well, I've always wantedto.
I wanted to do some sort ofself-defense.
But a friend of a friend knewof this class and I was like,
well, why not?
I had a free Saturday.
So I went up there and did itand literally it's.
It was the actual movesthemselves, For example, wrist
(04:26):
releases of someone grabs yourwrist.
There's an easy thing to dothat and I try it on my husband
all the time and a big guy andhe and I can always get away.
So it was just blew my mind howsimple it was.
And, like I said, I've neverhad experience with jiu-jitsu at
all.
But it's based on the principle.
So it's not like they'repreparing, preparing you to go
fight at a competition oranything they're.
They're preparing you to getaway to safety if you're
attacked.
And I can continue going on ifyou want me to.
Speaker 5 (04:46):
Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yeah, I'm curious to hear more about it and her
husband, just so you know is awrestler, so he does wrestling,
so he's like very big.
So we were talking about likehow, if somebody were to attack
us I don't know, since we've hadthis conversation, she always
talks about like if you pull upto a gas station, are you aware
if you're the only female there?
We talked about how males don'thave to really worry about
someone stealing their you knowthings, or attacking them or
(05:09):
things like that but I'm neveraware.
I'm always getting out of thecar with my phone, with my keys,
like I'm.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
You know, I'm never aware of my surroundings, and so
now I'm like getting out of mycar and that's what they talk
about kind of in the beginning,and some of the first things
that you learn is the in thisparticular class and I'm sure
there's self-defense classesthat have some version of this
somehow but the first kind ofthings you learn are the four
phases of an attack, if it's bya stranger, which is identify an
(05:38):
unsuspecting target.
That's number one.
So, and then our instructoralways told us that it's going
to be someone who's maybe theirshoulders are down or they're
looking down at the ground, orthey're busy on their phone, or
they're carrying a bunch ofstuff in their hands and not
paying attention to theirsurroundings, or maybe they've
parked way off in a parking lotthat's isolated or something
(06:01):
like that.
And I've always heard beforethis class that women with
ponytails are always a goodtarget because it's easy to grab
.
Wow, so that number one isidentify an unsuspecting target
is the first phase of an attack,so that's what the attacker
would do.
And then number two is tosubdue and isolate the victim,
(06:24):
and let's see.
I wrote some notes down, butbasically our instructor told us
that this is the phase whereyou really want to do your best
to try not to go with someone tosomewhere else, which we've
probably heard before in otherscenarios just don't go to that
second location, you know.
And so this is the point wheresomeone's trying to grab you and
(06:45):
physically move you away fromwhere you are.
And let's see here, and ifthey're at that point, if
they're asking for something,like if they have a weapon, for
example, if they're asking forsomething or not really asking,
demanding like your money oryour purse or some jewelry or
something, at that point justgive it to them, because he
always says it's never worthyour life or getting hurt.
(07:09):
So at that point if you can getrid of them, that's great.
But anyway, that's the stagetwo.
And then the third one, if theyget you subdued and isolated, is
that the attacker's goal is tocontrol and exhaust you, and
(07:29):
usually this stage ends up onthe ground.
And so there's tons and tons ofmoves in jiu-jitsu that when
you're on the ground it'sactually to your advantage.
It doesn't sound intuitive,especially for women, because
normally an attacker is going tobe a sexual attack, but
actually there's tons and tonsof things you can do on the
ground to defend yourself.
(07:49):
And so he's always talkingabout or our instructor is
always talking about you want totrain and know these moves so
well that when you're on theground you're doing the moves
with a smile, not maybe, notliterally, but the idea, idea
that you're not wearing yourselfout and you're not panicked and
using up all your energybecause you don't want to get
(08:12):
exhausted at that point whenyou're on the ground, because
you're probably going againstsomeone who's much bigger and
stronger and your stamina isprobably not going to match
theirs, your strength is notgoing to match theirs.
So you want to kind of conserveyour energy and if you know the
moves well enough and thetechniques of what they taught
us, the theory is anyway thatyou can do that, just like with
(08:36):
muscle memory, and that you'renot using a lot of energy.
And then, obviously, the fourthphase of an attack is for the
attacker to carry out theassault and hopefully, you know
it never gets to that point.
But those are the four stagesIdentify an unsuspecting target,
which, if I could get a messageacross and what I share with my
friends is that's the numberone.
(08:57):
And, like you said, you know,just become more aware of your
surroundings when you're out andabout and think about the way
you carry yourself.
And I will tell you that afterthis course I think about it all
the time, particularly if I'mwalking in a parking lot.
I try to carry myself a littlemore confidently Some of it's
conscious and some of it'sunconscious because I feel kind
of, if I can say this kind ofbadass now.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
I got my pink belt.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, with your shoulders back and like if
someone's if's, let's say ifyou're in the mind of an
attacker, if there's two peopleto choose from, am I going to
choose the woman that is likewalking confidently and with a
purpose and is looking around,or somebody that's kind of like
this with shoulders crunchedover or on their phone.
So anyway, that first phase isvery important, to kind of
(09:46):
understand and kind of make itpart of your everyday life, of
thinking about it each time yougo out.
And then just to repeat, thenumber two is subdue and isolate
, three control and exhaust andfour carry out the attack.
So that's for a strangerattacking you.
Speaker 4 (10:01):
It's so funny because I think people's initial I know
what I'm like on my phone.
I sometimes get on my phone toavoid eye contact.
So, it's more.
It's like the messages seemmixed because it's like I don't
want to draw attention to myself.
And then sometimes I know whatyou're saying.
You want to be confident andyou're.
If you look around.
And I know we had thisconversation off the air,
talking about making eye contactand talking to somebody that
(10:24):
they're less likely to attackyou, but it just seems so
strange to do.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
It does seem strange and I will tell you that when I
first started some of the thingsand I'll tell you a couple
techniques here in a minute thatdidn't come naturally and you
don't necessarily think oh,that's.
Or intuitively think, oh, Iwould do that in this instance.
Or because you do want to.
Oh, I don't want anybody tobother me, I don't want to get
(10:50):
trapped in a conversation and Idon't want that gross guy, you
know, looking at me.
So I'm just going to lookstraight, you know.
So you kind of do have toconsciously think about it for a
while.
You kind of change yourbehavior a little bit, you know.
You kind of change yourbehavior a little bit, you know,
and unfortunately I was tellingPam earlier that, you know, I
wish it wasn't the case.
But for us women in particularI know men can also be victims,
(11:13):
but in particular women that'sjust the state of affairs.
So we just have to, you know,bring it up a notch and protect
ourselves.
Speaker 5 (11:21):
I do At 4'11".
When I get out of my car, I tryto walk like a badass.
I act like I'm scared ofnothing, even though I'm really
scared of everything because Iwant to look confident.
So I've always kind of had thatmindset, without knowing, you
know I just I wanted to looklike, hey, I shouldn't be messed
with, but really.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
Yeah, I think the fear for me was always, like you
know, being on the subway inNew York and if you make eye
contact with somebody in NewYork and they start shouting at
you, you're like, oh, what am Isupposed to do?
So I think that kind of andgrowing up in a city as well,
you would never make eye contactwith people on the street, but
I do get it.
When you're on your own andyou're in an isolated part, you
want to make sure that you'reconfident and you're talking to
(11:59):
them and you're moving and justkeep going and act as confident
as you can.
It's just, it's so hard to knowwhat to do in this situation.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
And another thing that kind of after we've learned
these phases, one piece of, oractually one of the first moves
or techniques that he teaches usis okay, let's say you do run
into somebody that kept eyecontact with you and then maybe
he always gives the example.
You're at a gas station, forexample, pumping your gas,
minding your own business, andsome guy comes up and maybe you
(12:28):
glanced at him before and hestill keeps coming to you,
walking, and says, oh, can I getthe time?
Or hey, can I borrow a dollar.
A lot of times you'llinstinctively feel either
awkward or creeped out awkwardor creeped out.
But also, as women, we are kindof socially trained to be
(12:48):
polite, be nice, and oh, can Ihelp you?
Or sure, I can give you thetime.
But what I learned in this isthat you have to find your voice
.
So if you do have thatencounter where someone is not
letting go of your eyesight andcoming closer to you or asking
for something, this technique iscalled stop, block and frame.
(13:11):
So stop, that's the number one.
You put your hand up likeyou're stopping traffic and you
have to find your voice whereit's strong and you mean
business, not like, oh, stop,but you have to say stop.
I said stay back.
And if it's a good guy and youjust made a mistake and they
really did want the time a goodguy is going to say oh I'm so
(13:34):
sorry, I'm so sorry forbothering you, I didn't mean to
scare you.
So even if you're a little bitembarrassed for that awkward
encounter, you're safe andyou're creating a behavioral
pattern for yourself.
But if it's a bad guy, firstyou've raised your voice and
maybe other people have heardyou, you've drawn attention to
(13:56):
yourself and then you've kind ofgiven the message like I'm not
playing around, you can stayback.
And then, if the person isstill coming at you, there's
some moves that you can do thateasily push them out of the way.
You wouldn't think it, but Itell you it's just the wildest
thing.
I mean you can have a 300 pounddude coming at you and you know
you put both hands on theirshoulders and you kind of lean
(14:19):
into them and then use theirweight and they're leaning
towards you to kind of push themout of the way.
It's kind of hard to explainwith not doing it and on a
podcast, but the point of meexplaining that technique was to
find your voice and us womendon't have to be so polite and
I'm guilty of it all the time.
Oh, I'm so sorry.
(14:40):
Oh, I'm sorry.
My girlfriends at work wealways talk about okay, you're
going to owe a dollar if you saysorry one more time for some
innocuous thing.
So, finding your voice andbeing okay with saying no, stay
away, this is my personal spaceand really raising your voice
and I think you can get over theembarrassment if it's going to
(15:00):
protect yourself, you know,eventually that's great.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
I wouldn't think to do that, I would think ah, that
would be my response.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
I still think in this day and age.
It's amazing, though, still,how men will approach you for
things when they all know.
I always assume that they knowI'm like you must know that this
is scary to us, but they don'tseem to.
They still like.
I had a and I was out walkingthe dog a couple of weeks ago.
It was super early in themorning and there was nobody
around and I live very close toa softball field and I had the
(15:33):
dog with me and as I was walkingaround, there's like a dirt
road and there was nobody around.
It was was cold in Georgia, sonobody ever walks when it's cold
in Georgia and a car pulled upon the dirt part, the dirt path
right beside me, but they kindof blocked me as I was walking
with the dog.
Now I took one look in the carand I knew they were
missionaries, so I was like, oh,it's okay, but I'm still
(15:55):
astounded by the fact that Iknow there were young guys.
But I was like this is so wrong.
There's nobody around.
You've pulled a car straight upbeside me and you want to talk
to me and I'm like standing away.
And thankfully the dog was.
You know, he wasn't veryfriendly to them, but I was
still like this it's so wrongand I just don't understand in
this day and age how men thinkit's okay to do that.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
It's not something they have to worry about.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
They don't have to think about it.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
So it's not on their mind.
Yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
That is scary.
You would think that peoplewould have more social cues.
They were very young.
They were very young.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
But I did give the two local churches a call to let
them know that this is not okay.
To be honest, if I had been adifferent person here in Georgia
and I was carrying, that mightnot have ended very well,
exactly, and I was trying toexplain that it wasn't like for
these poor young guys out.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
You know trying to spread the word so yeah we were
talking earlier.
So I had a client that wastelling me that she was in a
different country, and they do alot of times there's like
techniques and things thatthey'll do, like if you look
like you're lost and you'relooking at your phone and trying
to figure out where you'regoing, and she said that they
just stepped away from theluggage for like literally two
seconds to look at a phonebecause the guy was like, can I
help you?
Speaker 4 (17:05):
But he was working with somebody else and so he's
like can I help?
Speaker 3 (17:08):
you and they're like, oh, we're looking for this
hotel.
As soon as they said we're justlooking, got the luggage that
had passport, I mean everything.
The entire trip like ruined andlike left.
And you shared a story aboutsomething similar.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yeah, I took a trip, and I don't think I told you
this, but back when I worked atDelta, I was going to just take
a trip by myself, because youknow, it's easy to fly when
you're an employee, and so Idecided just to go to Peru at
the last minute and this waswhen I was single and luckily my
mother, who also worked forDelta, decided at the last
(17:44):
minute to come with me.
And the reason I was lucky isbecause I got robbed on the way
from the airport to the hotel wewere staying at, because the
person broke the window of thecab we were in and literally
launched inside the cab andgrabbed my bag that I had kept
on the floorboard of the car,which had all my money, you know
, some special items and thingslike that.
(18:05):
So of course I freaked out andluckily my mother was there, so
I had, you know, someone, andit's a long story, but it what I
was telling Pam was the onething that I learned for sure is
like keep your importantdocuments and your money on your
person.
Yeah, and especially, you knowwe're talking about especially
going international, becauseI've had a friend that
(18:27):
pickpocketed, lost their phone,so you just feel so violated,
and then you're somewhere youdon't really know well, yeah,
and you're without anything.
But yeah, it definitely opensyour eyes and I'm more alert,
even when I travel now too.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
I came back from a trip late at night.
I took a red-eye.
Got home and got back to thecarport or the car parking area.
I couldn't remember where Iparked my car, so I was like
doing loops and loops.
I kept hitting my little alarmbutton trying to find my car.
I couldn't find it and therewas a group of two guys that
kept circling around.
It was like two in the morning.
(19:02):
They kept circling around theparking lot.
I thought I'm about to die.
There was no one around and mythought was, if they get me, I'm
going to claw the heck out ofthem.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
So at least they can get my DNA or their DNA out.
Speaker 5 (19:10):
I was so terrified I thought I'm done, but I'm going
to fight.
I'll get out and get some DNAon my fingernails.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
It's so sad we have to live like that, but I was
thinking that the whole time.
Speaker 5 (19:17):
I'm like, yeah, they're going to have a fight
before I go down.
That's all I know.
That's what I was thinking.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
I think it's sad.
How many people, though, likeeven my clients have stories
like that.
You know where it's, just likeone're crossing the street, and
so they always like, okay, go tothe other side, you know, like
you read all of the things to do, but in that moment it's just
terrifying and you're justthinking, oh gosh, what do I do?
(19:45):
How do I get away?
And part of like what we weretalking about, because obviously
my daughter's getting ready togo to college and she's like
five foot one and like tiny,like you know, barely 100 pounds
and I was thinking, wow, you,what if something?
You know the whole UGA thing,you know she's going to college
there.
What if that had been her Causeshe exercises and those kinds
of things?
And so what I liked about whatyou were saying that I think
would be good for her and likeall of us, is like it's not
(20:07):
about your size.
You know that you can, like youcan really work with you know
your size and angles and thingslike that to help get someone
like away and to get to safety.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
And the big thing with this particular class and
the art of jujitsu itself is healways talked.
Our instructor always talksabout you.
Use space and leverage.
Those are the two words I wastrying to make sure I remember,
because one thing they alwayssay is that whoever the person
that controls the space,controls the fight and includes
(20:47):
not just, as I was describingbefore, when someone walks up to
you and you try to keep thedistance before they get in your
personal space.
That also means if I'm down onthe ground with someone and
someone's like, kneeing downbetween my legs and has their
body over top of me, there'smoves in this course that I took
over top of me.
There's moves in this coursethat I took and I'm again
disclaimer, I am no expert byany means, but this just really
spoke to me and I was able toreally latch on to some of the
principles they were talkingabout.
(21:07):
But when you're in close, youcan use your arms and forearms
together to form like a frameagainst someone, because what
you don't want to do is if I'mon the ground with some huge guy
, I'm not going to try to punchhim.
That because if it becomes apunching fight, obviously I'm
going to lose?
Yeah, because I'm not as strong, I'm not as big, so I have to
(21:30):
use other ways to control thespace between me and him, create
space between me and him so Ican do certain moves.
One of the moves that's famousin this jujitsu is the shrimp
move, so it helps you get outfrom under them and then you can
use your legs to kick at theperson right in the face.
I mean it sounds super violent,but it really works for people
(21:53):
who are smaller.
And our instructor saysactually there's tons of
advantages if you're smaller.
Even if you're in a competitivesport with jujitsu or other
martial arts, this particularone is almost advantageous for a
smaller person.
It's harder for the biggerperson to find those spaces
within.
So I thought that was supercool.
(22:15):
These are things that I justthey're not on my radar at all,
that I would never think andthat's why, to me, like some of
the moves were, they weren'tintuitive at all.
I had no idea how I would dothat, because usually in the
beginning of our class he'll saywell, when he's demonstrating a
move for the first time, isokay, what?
What do you think is a commonreaction to you?
Know, some guy hold pinningyour arms back above your head,
(22:38):
and then we'd say you know youwiggle or you try to pull them
down, and basically you do a lotof the opposite of what you
think.
So that's why I think it'simportant for women to take a
class.
If it's not this one, I meanthere's many other types, but
this particular one made senseto me and I just thought it was
cool how you know the physics ofit all.
Speaker 5 (22:57):
So this wasn't just a local thing.
The pink belt is somethingthat's like nationwide.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
The particular class I went to is Gracie Balance
Academy in Peachtree City, andthe Gracie name for those who
aren't familiar with this art isa very popular name.
It was a guy back many yearsago that formed Brazilian
jiu-jitsu and he got it from theJapanese, I believe, but he
kind of modified it for himselfand his whole family is the name
(23:26):
Gracie, and they're all overthe United States.
I think they're headquarteredin California, so I'm not an
expert on the history either,but it's all over the country
these academies or studios wherethey and they have classes for
kids for like bullying andthings like that.
How to you know defend for kidsin the women's one, and then
(23:46):
they also do ones that are moretraditional classes where people
who may want to, you know,compete or spar with people and
things of that nature.
But right now all I really knowabout is the women's one.
Speaker 5 (23:57):
What was the most shocking thing that you heard in
that whole class?
What was the thing thatsurprised you the most?
Speaker 2 (24:02):
That the smaller person is an advantage.
Honestly, and our instructor,he himself is not a huge guy but
he's a five degree black belt,so I'm sure he could probably
take me down with a pinky, buthe and he, he was really good at
telling stories about when hewas a kid and when he first
(24:23):
started learning it, how he wasable to, you know, use some of
the techniques against biggerpeople and just some of the
simple moves that make thebiggest difference.
It's hard to really understandit until you kind of see it
yourself.
But and you know I'm notnecessarily commercial for this
particular class, although Ilove it and I would recommend it
(24:43):
but any kind of self-defense, Ithink, is good for women to
pick up, and I think there'ssome universal points too, like
the be aware of yoursurroundings type thing and also
just what you get out of it.
So you know, for me what I gotout of it in general is, you
know, a little more air ofconfidence.
I'm not too much of a physical,active person, I'm not a sports
(25:04):
person or anything like that,but just being able to oh, I can
do these things.
I'd never knew I could do that.
And so the feeling ofconfidence and just having an
accomplishment and that, for mybrain, works.
I thought it was really good tohave like an end goal, you know,
of the pink belt.
That's what I'm striving for,so that kind of helped me
(25:25):
continue on and stay with it,because I wanted to accomplish
something and I've also found.
One thing I really liked aboutit was all the women you know
gained friends from it and we'reall very supportive of each
other and I thought that wasjust super cool and I had so
much help when I told some folksthat I was going to be testing
for the pink belt.
(25:46):
So many of the women were, youknow, took extra time with me
and helped me train and drilland all that and were very
encouraging.
So you know, I'm all aboutempowering women literally
that's the name of the class,but I like that aspect of it too
because it's kind of like asisterhood and I thought that
(26:06):
was cool.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
I think two things that we talked about that would
be interesting.
One is not to be too muchinformation.
We were talking about choking.
I guess you think the strongeryou choke the better, but it
really is about how strong youdo it, but the duration, so that
part of it.
And then also you were sayingthat you train about how to get
a weapon from someone.
But if you get the weapon youhave to use it.
You can't just get a weapon andthen try to run or leave.
(26:28):
So that's a hard.
I think women would have a lotof thought about those things.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
Yeah, on the choking thing, so you can use.
They give you some techniqueson how to choke someone if you
needed to, if there was aninstance where you needed to,
and they're very careful abouthow they teach that and you work
with a partner throughout theclass so you have to be careful
(26:54):
you don't go full force oranything like that.
But we were taught that, okay,if you hold a choke, you can
have someone pass outunconsciously within six seconds
.
If you hold it longer than that, they're going to be out for a
lot longer time 30 seconds youcan start creeping into a time
where they might not come backand so again, this goes back to
the training where you want tohave that in the back of your
(27:19):
mind when you're performing thatparticular technique of choking
, because you use in your braintime versus strength.
So if I'm going to choke you,I'm going to try to.
If you can count in seconds one, two, three, all the way to six
and that can give you some timeto get away if you need to.
But you may be in a crazycircumstance where you can't get
(27:47):
away to safety really quickly.
So you can take further stepsto make that person you know go
out longer or, if you have to,you know, have them never come
back, and so those are thingsyou train on and, again, I would
never have known any of thosekinds of things about how long
it takes strength, yeah, youthink it would be a matter of
fact, they tell you, when youperform the choking moves you
(28:09):
have, you should start slowlyrather than expending all your
energy at once and doing itreally hard, because you're
going to get tired and out ofthat battle.
If you're doing it really fastversus the guy that's trying to
survive, that he's going tooutlast you.
So that's why you kind of wantto perform a choke slowly and
(28:30):
use that counting in your brainto kind of gauge where you are
or what you're going to end upwith, so to speak.
You mentioned the weapons.
Do you want me to talk aboutthat for a second?
Okay, so whenever we did aweapons class and I don't handle
weapons in my personal life oranything like that, so I was
completely out of character ornot character, but just
(28:52):
completely new to me, and so healways took it very seriously
and we practiced with rubberknives and rubber guns, and so
the idea is, if someone's comingwith you with a weapon kind of
to harken back to what I spokeabout in the beginning the first
thing is, if they're asking formaterial things, just give it
(29:12):
to them.
It's not worth it.
Your wallet, your purse, yourwatch, your jewelry, just go
ahead and give it.
It's not worth, you know,getting injured for sure.
And then, if you know, if it'sa situation where they want more
than that, if they're, you know, obviously trying to sexually
assault you or, you know,physically harm you, you know
(29:32):
you have the ability to make adecision if you're willing to
put up a fight or not.
If you decide, yes, I'm goingto fight this, then there's
techniques to disengage theweapon from them.
And if that happens, you haveto be willing to use that on the
person.
So when you say at some pointin the technique, you say, drop
(29:56):
the weapon, because after you'vebroken their arm, for example,
and you pick up the weapon, youneed to use that, because the
problem is, if you don't, thenthere's a chance that they could
come back and use it on you,and most likely they would at
that point, because they'regoing to be super mad that you
just did all these cool moves onthem and hurt them, you know.
So you have to have thatmindset too.
(30:18):
And again, that goes back totraining and just being really
comfortable with the moves andknowing what to do, so that
you're not, you know, deep inthought when you're at that
moment of, and have that moraldecision of oh gosh, this means
I might be taking someone's life.
It just has to be kind ofmuscle memory and you just know
what to do.
So if you made the decision toput up that fight, then that's
(30:41):
what you need to do, and thensometimes it's a win if you just
survive and I don't think thatyou can always.
You know there's notnecessarily one better way or
the other.
It's your decision how you wantto.
You know if you are just therelaying there and you know
waiting, if you survive, that'sa win too.
So there's lots of, I guess,theories and philosophies about
(31:04):
how to do all that and the bestmethods, and I'm sure there's
other classes that havedifferent takes and things of
that nature.
So it's just something to thinkabout and I think, even if
we're just thinking about it andtalking about it, I think that
is important because it gets ourmind thinking about protecting
ourselves in general.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
I think one of the simplest things you said is
probably the most useful for me,because I still think, until I
took a course and had moreconfidence, I'd still freak out
in the end or just take outrunning instead.
But I think the whole stop ifsomeone's approaching you
because it does feel awkward andembarrassing.
But you're right, if it'ssomebody normal who's not trying
to cause a problem, thenthey're going to be like oh okay
, this chick's crazy, I'm goingto leave her alone, you know.
(31:44):
So that's one time to lookcrazy and be embarrassed, I
guess so.
I think that's really useful,because that's something I think
I could do for sure you.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Like I said, if it's a good guy, they're gonna be.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean toscare you and we have to get
over that as women, particularlyof being a little bit
embarrassed or, you know, beinga little bit having that awkward
moment with someone, and thenyou can.
If it's a good guy, then youcan just kind of laugh about it
and say, oh, whatever, okay, youreally do need the time, you
(32:11):
know, and you know, go on aboutyour life, but if it's a bad guy
, then you want to do what youneed to do.
Yeah, bring attention toyourself and, like I said, find
your voice is the other thing.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
Just wish the good guys were just a little cleverer
sometimes and not approach you.
If we could just teach themthat.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
But you make a good point because, as a mother of
boys and as a mother of boys,what would you teach them or
tell them?
Because they don't think aboutfear in the ways I think that
people say like I think of acollege student.
A male is not thinking aboutfear like a female student
walking around campus by herselfor like you walking around the
airport, you know, looking foryour car by yourself, like they
(32:54):
may have been there to help youlegit, but you don't feel it
that way and they they wouldn'tsee how you feel things.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
Does that make?
Don't feel it that way and they, they wouldn't see how you feel
things.
That makes sense.
I also.
I know we also had thisconversation before and I think
sometimes you know the unlessthey look really scary, you're
not as scared.
So, like you know, if agood-looking guy approaches you,
you're not on guard, you'rekind of you know, whereas if
somebody looks a little dodgy,you're going, I'm going to keep
away from them, but I just it'sjust so hard for women, you just
(33:23):
don't know like who's apredator, who's not because it's
crazy, some of the biggestpredators were very normal
looking or handsome looking tedbundy and most women are killed
by people they know as well,which I also think is the crazy
situation then, because thenyour guard is completely down.
You know at least, not at least,but when it's random at least
(33:45):
maybe in some way you have thatchance to react.
But I think when you knowsomebody you know is your
attacker that's actually perfect.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
Segue into one other thing I was going to mention, if
I have a few minutes, is thatyou remember in the beginning I
talked about the four stages ofan attack of a stranger.
There's actually talked aboutthe four stages of an attack of
a stranger.
There's actually the same thingfour stages of an attack for a
non-stranger, and the first oneis intrusion and that's
basically like little tinymoments you know, every day, and
(34:15):
they may build.
It may start with just touchingyour hand, or then it might the
person may gently rub up theshoulder the next day, then it
might be to a small you know,messing with your hair, or then
rubbing your back and you mightfeel, you know, we've all felt
that, at least I have many timesbecause people like to invade
(34:36):
your space and not think aboutthat's your person, that's your
body, so those little everydaythings that may happen.
So if someone has badintentions, they're probably
going to start with those littletiny intrusions every day.
It could be a co-worker or afamily member or a friend that
they just get a little bit moreinto your personal space.
So that's stage one for anon-stranger, those little
(34:59):
intrusions.
A second stage isdesensitization.
So they've.
You know they've done it sooften, they're kind of numb to
it, so you're not necessarilythinking about it now as what it
really is.
You know because they've doneit so often, I mean you become
used to it.
The third stage is isolation,which, as you remember in the
(35:19):
other one with a stranger, thesame kind of thing.
So so this person, if they knowyou, they, they may know your
schedule, they may know yourinterest and know where you will
be, and then they may knowwhere is a good opportunity,
where you're going to be aloneor something like that.
So that isolation and gettingaway, getting you away from
people you know, to carry outsome sort of attack, which is
(35:42):
the fourth stage.
So if they have you isolatedand they're able to overcome all
your techniques, if you'velearned any, then they'll carry
out the attack there.
So I thought that was anotherinteresting aspect of this.
What I've learned from thisclass is those little steps for
people that know you, because Ireally had that happen more.
You know now that I'm reallythinking about it.
(36:03):
I've had that happen more thanI would have imagined.
You've probably felt this inyour own life.
Oh, that's a little creepy.
I don't like someone to comerub my back.
I don't know you that well, youknow.
And again, that's when you haveto find that voice within you,
just like with a stranger, whereyou're saying you have to put
your hand up and say stop, stayback.
(36:24):
Well, with someone that youknow, you know if they put their
arm on you or your shoulder orwhatever you say, you know I'm a
little uncomfortable with that.
Can you please step back out ofmy personal space Again?
Us women, we're going to be,you know, we've been trained to
be polite and you know not makeanybody feel bad.
But you got to get over that.
(36:44):
You just got to stand up foryourself.
You know it's your body, it'syour personal space and if it's
making you feel awkward, justsay you know you don't have to
be, you know, necessarily meanor yell it.
Just be assertive.
Hopefully, you know, someonewill get the picture and just
say you know that's making mefeel uncomfortable, I don't need
you to do that.
Can you back up, please, anduse that assertive tone?
(37:08):
So, yeah, you have to thinkabout that in your everyday life
too.
Speaker 4 (37:13):
I think kids are getting better at that, though I
mean, they're definitely betterthan when we were younger.
You know, I can see a difference.
I always remember the boys onthe bus and I was always saying
to them you're not to put yourhands on somebody else's body,
like, even as kids go, do not.
You do not touch anotherperson's body, keep your hands
to yourself, don't do anything.
But I do think that messagewith kids is better now than it
(37:37):
was when we were growing up,because I think we were stuck in
that you have to be polite.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
And I think we're getting better.
Certainly our daughters aregetting a little bit better and
I think because our age, ourparents, our age are also
bringing it up more to the kids.
My best friend, she talks toher kids.
He was in elementary schoolabout knowing what consent is,
you know so, and I, as a motherof a boy, a young boy, I want to
teach him those things consentalso, but, as I think you were
talking about earlier.
(38:07):
So they know and understandpersonal space and know that
they just can't walk up to agirl and just put their hands on
them for and it could be foreven, you know, innocuous
reasons they don't have badintent, but they should, you
know, I hope to you know,explain and hope my son
understands why that is notacceptable or appropriate,
(38:29):
because I don't, you know, itdoesn't necessarily come
naturally, especially if younever talk about it.
So hopefully we're raising goodboys.
Speaker 5 (38:36):
That's all I can hope for I think it's cool that fact
that you said that you knowbecause I picture a lot of times
with this self-defense is thatmore someone who's already
really athletic, because I would, you know, croak if I was in a
boxing competition or karate.
So it's cool to hear you saythat you got that confidence
just by learning the appropriatemaneuvers and you don't
necessarily have to be, you know, a bodybuilder or really
(38:59):
athletic.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
I am not the picture of an athletic person, but
anybody can do these techniques,even if you're.
You know, you don't have to bean Olympic athlete and you don't
have to be massively big orstrong necessarily, and for me
it was easy, simple things thatjust made it worth trying to
(39:20):
really understand.
So I think you know, I thinkit's important for women to find
something that they feelcomfortable with, because I've
never done any of these kind ofclasses.
So, and as our instructor says,sometimes when we have, you
know, seminars or the firstclass, just the person walking
in the door, sometimes that'sthe win for that person, because
(39:41):
it takes a lot if you're notused to it or if you're a little
intimidated, thinking, oh, thisis related to jujitsu, but you
don't have to know those kind ofthings, you don't have to be
athletic, you don't have to havecertain qualities.
So you do have to find a placeor a class or things that make
you feel comfortable enough tostick with it so you learn about
(40:01):
it.
A particular one just happenedto be, you know, find me at the
right time in my life, which I'mvery thankful for.
So, yeah, I'm promoting allself-defense classes.
Speaker 4 (40:13):
But of course I love this one that's so important,
though I've never done oneeither, I mean it feels like
something we should have alldone at some point in our lives,
because we spend most of thetime being terrified.
So it's like it should havebeen something we did.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Yeah, I don't know about you guys, but ever since I
was a teenager, if I was in theparking lot, I was always I
don't know if this was from anOprah show walk with that one
key sticking out, ready to fight.
Yeah, always, yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
I don't think about that as much as I should, but I
do think that as females, wehave an issue of being finding
our voice and I feel like whatyou said about finding your
voice is the biggest part forsome people.
And I feel like, obviously,petrie city, the bubble, you
know people are, there's notmuch crime here, there's not
much.
But I've had several clients,you know, carjacked, you know
attacked or stolen, whateverit's everywhere, most recently,
I think, you know, with lake andriley, whatever it's everywhere
(41:01):
.
Speaker 5 (41:02):
Most recently, I think you know, with Lake and
Riley.
I mean, that was just such aheartbreaking case because she
was just jogging, you know, on acampus which you would think
would be safe in the morning, soit's not like a late night out,
you know, in an isolated area.
So I think that just with thatit just makes us remember it can
really happen anywhere, anytime, and not necessarily in a place
that seems, you know, adangerous place.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Exactly, yeah, just be prepared, and hopefully you
know something bad could stillhappen, but you know at least
you're as prepared as much asyou possibly can be you want
every advantage if you can, youknow.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
Yeah, I think.
The other thing and this is offtopic, but I was watching
something I guess it was acouple of weeks ago, but like a
bullying situation, and thisgirl was really like she almost
died.
She was in the hospital incritical condition, but
everyone's like watching andfilming, but people don't really
like intervene.
It's kind of like that strangerbystander.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
You know, people don't get involved.
I just can't imagine.
I mean, we always hope, or atleast I would always, I to.
Oh, surely I would do something, you know, surely I would step
in, of course, kind of don't you?
Speaker 5 (42:04):
think the mom instinct you'd have to.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
I mean it's so interesting how people don't,
and that's like one of the bigpsychology studies.
It was in new york.
There was a girl that wasgetting beaten and was yelling
out and she actually was killed.
And the next day they likeinterviewed people and talked to
them and most everyone heard,but everyone thought that
somebody else was calling orsomebody else was calling the
police or somebody else wasdoing something, and actually no
one did anything.
And so I think about also notjust that person and that
(42:30):
struggle, but like what we cando if we ever are cognizant or
aware of someone going throughsomething, and how we can like
jump in and help or like trainboys and sons and people to like
you know help and don'tapproach somebody in a certain
way.
You know ways and techniques togo about helping others.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
I think about what I tell my son almost every day is
you know, is there anybody youcan help today?
Who are you kind to today?
Make sure you're.
You know, and again it goesback to that, you know,
hopefully we're raising reallygood, strong, helpful, kind men
eventually that know all thesethings already and aren't like
trying to catch up when they'readults.
(43:08):
You know so, it's ingrained inthem.
So that's, I'm trying to do mypart with my son.
That's all I can do andhopefully encourage others,
because I tell you what, ladies,if I can do this, anybody can.
Because I tell you what.
Ladies, if I can do this,anybody can, if I can.
When I went back and took mytest Pam mentioned in the
(43:28):
beginning how I showed her apicture of myself after the test
my face was so beet red Ithought I was going to pass out
because I was nervous first totake this test and then I had
some adrenaline going and it isquite an exhausting test, just
naturally.
But if I can get through it, Ithink anyone can and hopefully,
(43:51):
you know, someone hears me andthey're encouraged to maybe try
something they never thoughtthey would do.
Like I said, this is out of myrealm, but I I feel like so
accomplished and like it's soworth it.
I have like a, an actual, legitskill to help myself and I'm
going to continue learning withand training because I want to
(44:12):
keep that skill up and hopefully, you know, hopefully I'll never
, ever have to use it.
But I like sharing theinformation because I thought it
was so, so cool.
Speaker 5 (44:20):
I love that and I think we're all women so we're
talking about pink belt, but Ithink honestly, like as I'm
thinking about this, I wouldn'tI'm a mom of boys to have them
take a self-defense becauseobviously we're all vulnerable.
So just how we respond in thosesituations, I think is really
important.
So thank you so much you havebeen awesome and it's such a
great message it gave meencouragement that I could maybe
.
Speaker 4 (44:39):
We're going to do it.
We're going to do it.
I'm going to bring all thegirls on my house to go do this.
Speaker 5 (44:43):
Yes, we're actually going to host a self-defense
class, so I will tell you whenwe do.
Speaker 4 (44:47):
Oh, that's so good.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
We've been working it out Excellent, amazing.
Speaker 5 (44:50):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
Well, thank you so much, thank you, thank you
ladies, thank you for joiningthe ladies of the Middle Age-ish
podcast as they journey throughthe ups and downs of this not
young but definitely not oldseason of life.
To hear past episodes or makesuggestions for future episodes,
(45:12):
visit wwwmiddleageishcom.
That's wwwmiddleageishcom.
You can follow along on socialmedia at Middle Age-ish Also, if
you have a moment, to leave areview rate and subscribe.
That helps others find the showand we greatly appreciate it.
Once again, thank you so muchfor joining us and we'll catch
(45:35):
you in the next episode of theMiddle Age-ish Podcast.
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