May 15, 2024 • 43 mins
Are you dealing with annoying people in your life? Ilene Marcus, celebrated author of "Managing Annoying People," joins us for a candid conversation on turning the mirror inwards to deal with the daily grind of office irritants. We navigate the complexities of reflecting the behavior you desire to see, the distinct coaching needs of men and women in the workspace, and fostering self-awareness for growth. Ilene's seasoned perspective is a guiding light for anyone seeking to create a more harmonious work environment by first mastering the art of self-management.
Communication is a dance, and sometimes we step on toes—especially in the workplace. This episode uncovers the transformative power of reflective listening and the careful choreography of thoughtful conversation. Relive with us a personal tale that escalated into an HR dilemma, underscoring the importance of measured responses. You'll also discover the 'secret smile' among other tactics to keep your cool and collect wisdom amidst dialogue. Moreover, we open up about our approach as hosts, sharing our philosophy of short, sharp interventions to remedy entrenched corporate challenges.
Lastly, the generational chasm in workplace philosophy comes under the microscope as we contrast the mindset of millennials with that of baby boomers. Through Ilene's lens, we delve into personal habits that breed annoyance, such as excessive talking, the need for explanation over assertion, and the recognition of our historical hysterical triggers. Embracing the journey of self-improvement and mindfulness, we uncover how these efforts not only polish our daily interactions but also make space for what's sincerely significant in our lives.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Middle Age-ish Podcast, authentically
and unapologetically keeping itreal, discussing all things
Middle Age-ish, a time whenmetabolism slows and confidence
grows.
Join fashion and fitnessentrepreneur Ashley Badowski,
former Celtic woman and founderof the Lisa Kelly Voice Academy.
Lisa Kelly, licensedpsychologist and mental health
(00:24):
expert, dr Pam Wright and highlysought after cosmetic injector
and board certified nursepractitioner, tricia
Kennedy-Roman.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Join your hosts on the journey of Middle Age-ish.
Hello everyone and welcome toanother episode of Middle
Age-ish'm.
Lisa Kelly and I'm joinedtonight by Trisha Kennedy-Roman
and Dr Pam Wright.
We're actually missing MissAshley today because her AC is
broken so she had to get itfixed, but we are so excited to
welcome our guest this evening,eileen Marcus.
(00:58):
She's a much sought afterspeaker with helpful advice for
anyone stuck in their everydayclimb, and she is also the
author of Managing AnnoyingPeople and a blogger for Sixty
and Me.
You are very welcome to ourshow this evening, miss Eileen.
We're delighted to have you.
I love the name of that book.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yes, You'll have to tell us all about how to deal
with annoying people.
I need this in my life.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Yes, thanks for having me Very excited to be
here.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
So tell us about your book, Ali.
I mean, I'm sure we could allwrite plenty of things about
annoying people, but managingthem seems to be a bit hard for
most people.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Well, let me start with it's so annoying that
Ashley is not here, because Ireally connected with her, so
shout out to Ashley B forreaching out and all that.
So I wrote this book becauseit's a handbook on how to manage
me.
I was annoying.
I was that superstar who got itdone, who everybody turned to,
that was promoting through theranks, but boy, was I a handful.
(01:57):
I wanted your time, I wantedyour information, I wanted more
resources, I wanted that office,I wanted it this way, and
that's a lot for a boss tohandle.
Especially when I startedmanaging my own team and oversaw
about 10,000 people, I realizedI am surrounded by a team of
mini-me's and they're driving mecrazy.
And the book was born,basically, and it really talks
(02:19):
about how to find peace andserenity and watch our own
behaviors so that we can show upthat way and be more of a
reflection of who we want theothers to be.
So it's really managing othersis about managing yourself.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
Yeah, it reminds me.
I just saw a quote that said bethe person that you want to
work with, and I guess thatthat's kind of what you're
saying there with that.
Yes.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
You know, a lot of CEOs invited me into their inner
sanctum, right into their teammeetings, to meet with them and
see why they're not getting whatthey want from their staff.
And time after time I had toturn around and say look at what
you're giving.
You're getting upset, You'rerolling your eyes, You're on
your phone.
How do you expect your staff tobe present or honest with you
(03:02):
when that's not what you'redoing?
And there's a real subtle twisthere when you think you're
building your team becausethere's one person that's
annoying or doesn't dress rightor you know you all think is
crazy and you are kind of, youknow, bonding with everybody
else over, that that switches onyou.
There becomes a point therewhere everybody says wait a
(03:22):
minute, wait a minute, thatcould be me in the future, and
then everything falls apart.
So it's really important thatyou be the kind of person that
you want people to work with,that, if your values are
integrity and honesty andopenness and collaboration, that
that's what you show and youstay present for your staff.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
That's super important, do you find when
you're.
When you're talking about this,though, do you approach it
differently if it's a man or awoman, because I kind of feel
sometimes that if a woman is ago-getter, and a woman wants
things done and wants everything, then she's considered annoying
or bossy, whereas we don't adoubt that does exist.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
But I always come at it when I coach people or I
talked well when I coach them.
Definitely very different Withwomen it's a lot about.
I know you're not beingannoying, but this is what they
hear, this is what they see,this is what they're saying.
So I was in a meeting recentlywhere a woman said I have given
(04:21):
him that folder and that formright.
She's an administrator.
One of the department headsneeded to fill something out and
she said I have given it to himfive times here in the emails.
Here's some times I gave them.
Here's what I've done.
And I looked at her and I saidbut he's saying he doesn't have
it and what he needs is yourhelp.
So saying you gave it to him,that's not what he's hearing.
(04:43):
What he's hearing is I didn'tget any help.
You emailed it to me and youwiped your hands of it.
Might be a little bit of adifferent conversation with a
guy.
With a guy it might be.
Did you go over and sit withhim?
What did you do?
I don't have to deal so muchwith what they're thinking about
you.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
I just have to tell the man what he should go do you
know I'm a psychologist and alot of times working with people
like they see other people's, Iguess like annoying habits or
bad habits, but getting them tobe introspective and look at
their own things can be reallydifficult.
So how do you go about helpingthem to do that?
Because you're right, I mean,everyone has their own quirks
and annoying tendencies andthings.
(05:19):
How do you get them to likedial into that?
How do you get them to likedial into that.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Well, I have a tagline that says you'll laugh,
you'll cringe, you'll changewhen you see your own behavior
sometimes, or you see it insomeone else.
That's what really gets yougoing.
I say that all the way.
You know I'm into Shakespeare.
These days All the world's astage, but all the world is a
mirror and either we have whatwe see we're like, we like that
(05:45):
that's us, or we don't like it.
So, getting people to look atthemselves about how others
might perceive themselves, beopen to the possibility Simple
tricks.
Right, it's the pointed finger.
You point the finger at thatperson.
You got three back at you.
Any way you can get someone tothink about.
Certainly, what might I bedoing?
(06:05):
I'm not saying for me that theother person is not annoying.
I'm not telling you that you'renot right about what they're
doing and they didn't do theirjob and they should be doing it
better.
But as long as they're moral,ethical and competent, then it's
incumbent on you especiallynowadays with Zoom and all the
different modes of communicationit's really incumbent on you to
(06:27):
say how can I best get mymessage across?
What can I change?
So my entire job is basicallygetting people to see their BS,
their blind spots, the thingsthey don't see.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
I love that.
I love that too.
I love that too.
I'd love to be able to do that.
I'd love to be able to do thatwith myself because, again, I
work for myself, so I don't haveto worry about annoying too
many people, but it's just whenyou're dealing.
I deal with kids every day, soeven trying to get them to
notice what they're doing, theirbehavior, and try and stop it
(07:02):
in their tracks now is like it'ssomething gosh I struggle with
and I get very impatient attimes.
Speaker 5 (07:10):
One thing I've noticed before is just like when
I might see a parent playing ontheir phone instead of playing
with, you know, a painted gingerkid, and I think, oh my gosh,
that looks horrible.
But I've done that, you know.
So it's very easy to look atother people you know and think,
wow, they really snapped attheir husband and that was
really awful.
Well, I've done that, you know.
So I think it's much easier tolook at someone else and see
when they're doing wrong than itis yourself.
(07:30):
So I think that introspect isreally important.
I call that one.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Goldilocksing right.
We all know the story aboutGoldilocks and the three bears,
do we?
I mean, other generations don'tknow it, but Goldilocks goes
into this house.
She's tired.
She stumbles upon a house, youknow she wants to porridge.
The big bowl is too hot.
The other bowl is too cold.
The little bowl, you know.
(07:53):
The middle bowl is just right.
Bed too soft, too hard, justright.
And we all think about, likelet's right size our behavior
right, because no one is perfectall the time.
We all get annoyed, we all havea bad day.
We're human, we all, you know,have.
I mean, even the computer ishuman.
Sometimes it doesn't do whatyou want it to do, it hiccups.
So we have to forgive ourselvesthat.
So we all want to right size.
(08:14):
But why I call it Goldilocksing?
Is, as soon as you are lookingat someone else's behavior and
judging them, we forget thatGoldilocks was trespassing.
She was in someone else's house.
She broke and entered.
We don't want to be trespassers, we don't want them doing it to
us.
So do you want someone eatingyour porridge?
Do you want someone else takingyour inventory?
(08:36):
So I say notice your BS and donot trespass into someone else's
area.
Stay away.
Don't Goldilocks it.
Find the right size, but do notcross that boundary which is
not yours, when I work withadolescents.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
sometimes parents will tell me like, oh, they have
these tantrums and it's likehorrible.
And I'm like, oh, ok, well, Idon't know, but like film them
and like let's see.
And as soon as they go to filmif it's a kid or an adolescent,
they freak out like they don'twant to be filmed at all,
because I mean, they know,obviously right, like this is
going to look really, really badfor my therapist or my teacher
or whoever.
And so I think that if we hadcameras around us 24-7 to see
(09:16):
you know, really see ourbehaviors, it would make a big
change.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
You know, a lot of people ask me Eileen, what tools
do you need to do your job?
I'm like my phone.
It's the same thing with CEOs.
You say, oh, can I just tapeyour team?
And at first, the first five or10 minutes they're all on
perfect behavior, and then theyforget that you're taping and
when I show it back to them,there's that cringe factor,
exactly.
So it works really well at anyage and that's really important
(09:43):
also for friends, for teams, foranyone, because anyone can be
taping you at any time, whetherit's work, it's not work.
It's a PTA meeting.
You're in a bar and you saysomething you know.
Just you think you're beingfunny to your friends and if you
have a public position or awork position or anything,
neighbors, it can get picked upwrong.
So the world has really changedin that way and if you embrace
(10:05):
that instead of running from it,really think about you know, if
other people were looking downon me.
Is that who I want to be?
That's another good way ofreally really changing your
behavior.
Is that who I want to be?
Is that how I want to show up?
I want to tell you a funny storyabout reflective listening,
though, because, because youknow I'm in the field and, um,
(10:25):
when my daughter my daughter'solder now she's 29, but when she
was young, she went throughthat phase where you know, um, I
would say, samantha, pack yourbag, you pack your bag.
You know they do that thingthat you, samantha, go take a
bath.
You take a bath, right, youknow, she kept on doing that to
me.
And there's something calledrespective, which is a great
social work or therapy or aninterview tool.
(10:47):
I'm sure you use it as atherapist and it's a great tool
where someone says I don't likethe way you did that and you say
, oh, you don't like the waythat happened.
Right, you reflect back to getmore information, not to put
words in their mouth, butsometimes when they hear
themselves, they hear itdifferently.
I say I said, you just saidthat.
(11:10):
And they're like, oh, I didjust say it.
People don't always hearthemselves, but when I was
managing, one time this man saidto me hey, I need you and I'm
like you go file the forms, andhe's like he took me to HR over
it.
I was flip, right, and I washis boss, but I was so in that
head and it was fine and Iapologize, but he didn't know
that I was at home, you know,with my daughter and her 20
(11:31):
other eight-year-olds, and I'mlike you go file the form
because I was throwing back athim what I was hearing.
So those mimicking and thatreflective listening is really,
you know, it's a very powerfultool that we forget to use.
Speaker 5 (11:45):
I was just thinking, as we were talking about this,
that it would really be not funto be on a reality TV show,
because it is recorded and thenyou will look back on yourself
and see all the things you did.
Yeah, but it is funny.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
It's so funny how quickly you forget cameras are
around.
I always say that about realityTV and I know they have edits
and everything but like if youhave a camera following you
around for a while, you reallyare on your best behavior for
only about 10 minutes and thenyou just forget that they're
there and you just go so freefor all.
Yeah, I've cussed so many times.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
Yeah, you start to feel comfortable.
It can happen in a variety ofways.
So that's a really good way tolook at managing yourself.
Who do I want to be?
And how does that come out?
Because we've all been in thatposition, whether at work or
birthday party, even for thekids where we said something
where we're like why did I saythat?
You know, maybe someone had abetter present or a car we liked
(12:39):
better, and we're like, well, I, you know, and you're like why
was I upping them?
So you have to look withinyourself to what that is.
But you have to.
You know, I really work withpeople and myself to train what
I call how to get out of our ownway, how not to say something
cringeworthy.
You know where is that comingfrom.
When in doubt, shut your mouth.
(12:59):
I mean, that is the best adviceI can give anyone, and we're
taught in this world, especiallywomen, to speak up, to use our
voice.
But I always go by the sayingsay what you mean, mean what you
say, but don't say it meanly.
And it's really good to shutyour mouth first and reflect on
(13:20):
what you want to say.
You know you can always say itagain.
It might not be in the moment.
It might not be at the righttime, but the situation you're
in is not what I like to say isyour last bite at the apple, so
just sit back and get someperspective.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
It can change everything especially what comes
out of your mouth.
Yeah, I love that because Ifeel like sometimes people want
to jump in too quickly and theywant to, you know, say something
or feel like they have toanswer something immediately,
versus saying, hey, let me takea while and think about that or
let me get back to you tomorrow.
And I do supervision withinterns and the thing that they
have the most difficulty with issilence.
(13:54):
So, just sitting in a room witha client and if they're
silenced they want to jump inbecause they're uncomfortable,
just to like fill the space andask a question and move forward,
but it's like really, you justneed to sit with a silence and
see what comes from that, butit's so hard, I think, for
people to do.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
I'm so glad you said that because it reminds me of
one of my favorite tools that Itrain people on and that is
called the secret smile.
Think about Mona Lisa.
We do not know why Mona Lisa issmiling.
We don't know what's happeningunder her dress.
Not to get rude, we don't knowanything and we don't really
know right.
There's been a thesis andpeople and you know, years of
(14:33):
commentary Is that the firstturned up smile?
Is it a known smile?
So I say have the secret smile.
So when you're sitting quiet,have a look on your face that
makes others think what are theyup to?
And that helps to preoccupy you.
So you keep your mouth shut,but it also puts others on edge.
So if you're not sure about thesituation and how to respond,
(14:53):
it's going to change thetemperature of the room a little
.
You can get a little moreinformation if you use that
secret smile and of course weall know that it takes much less
muscles to smile than it doesto frown.
So you present yourself betterand you're gathering some vital
information.
So I say smile like you have asecret and be surprised what you
(15:16):
can learn, and it helps you tosit silent.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So do you just do you go into corporate businesses
and speak to them, or do youspend a lot of time actually
training people?
And if so, how long does ittake to reprogram people?
Speaker 4 (15:45):
not on why their team isn't gelling and that always
that could be, you know, from afinancial perspective, from an
operational, from a new, a newproject launch, and that always
ends up being team behaviorwho's not listening, who's not
paying attention.
There's always somemiscommunication.
So I usually go in and workwith the CEO and his team around
a project where they've calledin the accountant and they've
called in this person, but theycan't find that reason why it's
(16:07):
not coming together, why thewhole isn't greater than some of
the parts.
And then it all comes down tothis.
And I'm the kind of girl youknow took me a long time to
admit this, ladies I'm a onenight stand kind of girl.
I like to get in and get out.
I don't like long termrelationships.
So most of my it's true, mostof my corporate relationships,
you know, are, you know, oversometimes a 10 week period, a
(16:31):
five week period, three to fivemeetings.
If I'm really digging into yourfinances and kind of how your
priorities are resting, yourfinance doesn't have your team
is following them or not mightbe 10 or 12 meetings.
So it's a really quick thing.
It's usually most of the time.
One of the things about me isI'm very much a straight shooter
(16:51):
.
I say people have to want towork with a strong cup of coffee
.
I love coffee and I love strongcoffee.
And that's me I'm going toreally tell you right up front.
So my work engagements areusually short but I have them.
People come back to me everyfew years when they need a
cleanup.
I have an incredible, incrediblerepeat business and actually
(17:12):
now I'm trying to move my butnow that I'm older and wiser,
I'm not middle-aged just likeyou ladies anymore.
I'm almost end of middle-agedbody about how they hear people,
how they manage themselves andhow that impacts the whole team
(17:36):
and that really focuses on howthey contribute to the bottom
line, how what they do every day.
I like to say you know I'm abig coffee person, so whether
they're picking the beans,roasting the beans, serving the
beans or sweeping up after thebeans, you have a place that's
important to make that cup ofcoffee happen.
And how do you honor thatcontribution and how do you
honor that as being a good teammember.
So I mostly now speak to groupsabout, you know, managing
(18:03):
yourself and teams that aregearing up for a big project.
So that's usually, you know, 45minutes an hour, maybe some
breakout sessions.
So that's a long answer, butthere are many different ways to
work with me, but I usuallycome in through the CEO, help
the team gel, motivate them,make them cringe, make them
laugh, hopefully leave them withsomething they'll remember and
move on.
Speaker 5 (18:19):
I think that really, what you're talking about is
something that is not justapplicable to work.
I mean, obviously this would bewith you know, friendships,
marriages, parenting.
I think really, what you'resaying is is kind of apply it to
all aspects of your life.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
A hundred percent and you know that's something.
I'm a social worker by trainingand I I I joke about it that I
just, you know, do social workin the corporate setting,
because it all comes down tohelping people to see what
they're bringing into thesituation.
I always use the example ofwe're late.
That morning, whatever, youknow, I spilled a cup of coffee.
(18:56):
You know I had a problem withmy car and all of a sudden I
have to get to work.
And we all know the story,right, the person in front of
you, the red lights.
The day that you're late,everyone else is taking their
time.
So when you show up andsometimes there's no reason,
right, you're just running latewhen you show up, you're already
hyped up, you're alreadyannoyed and you think, wow, I
(19:18):
got here.
You're patting yourself on theback and saying, look at me, I,
you know, I jumped 40 obstaclesthis morning and I got it done.
Instead, you're already showingup, revved up.
I have never seen a person thatdoesn't get a little road rage,
that doesn't carry that onthroughout the day.
So you're bringing something toit and then other people are
reacting to you and a lot oftimes you are bringing, you know
(19:41):
, family situations into work orwork situations into family.
It really does go both ways.
So what you're saying is really, really important and I think
the important thing about what Ido and why I can be a one night
stand girl trying to think ofsomething.
It's just not coming off thetop of my head.
But you know how you like mighthave trouble.
(20:02):
This is a bad example.
But filling your dishwasherright, the dishes always come
out dirty.
You can't understand why youhave the newest high power
dishwasher using the top of theline, jet dry, and somehow your
glasses are never clean.
And then someone comes over andsays, oh, just line them up
this way and they will bedifferent.
And you're like, oh, that'swhat I wasn't doing, and now you
can just do that, that's what Ido.
(20:24):
I don't have to, you know,train you on all these
techniques I have to point outto you, get you to see that you
know, like the glasses, they'rea little fuzzy to see yourself
differently or to see here's howyou could handle that
differently.
And then most of the timepeople are off and running.
Once they see it, they'remotivated to change and they can
catch themselves.
(20:44):
And if not, I suggest therapy.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Yes, but it's kind of the same.
It's the same kind of thing astherapy.
It's things that you don't seeand you don't recognize in
yourself at the time whereyou've been doing something the
same way for such a long timeand you've gotten stuck in that
rut and it works.
I think that's sometimes youknow the thing with when you're
around people like that thatyou're operating a certain way
(21:07):
and it's worked for so long, sowhy change it?
And then you kind of blame theother people coming in that
they're not able to keep up orthat kind of thing, and I think
that's hard.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
Yeah, I think that's exactly on point.
I'm working on a team nowthat's falling apart.
I'm putting together anentrepreneurial weekend and
behind the back they're.
I'm putting together for anentrepreneurial weekend and
behind the back they're alltelling me well, this one's
jealous of this one and thisone's jealous of that one.
I'm like, ok, first of all, arewe in elementary school, are we
?
You know, let's work withprofessionals here.
(21:37):
These are very well-respectedpeople in their field.
It's always, you know, theylike love telling stories about
the others.
But I think that you knowthat's exactly it.
It's that, especially if it'sworked for us.
I know that's what happened tome.
I got promoted quickly.
(21:58):
I had big teams.
I always had people that reallyliked me and champions, but I
always had fights and this andthat, and it always, I want to
say, ended badly because I wasvery lucky.
I parachuted to the next thingor the next or got promoted
because I was competent, butuntil I could really understand
who I was and how, they mightnot think it's cute that I come
(22:21):
in as a whirlwind.
They might not think it's cutethat I pick apart their plan the
way I do.
They might, you know, my familymight not think it's cute that
I pick apart their plan the wayI do.
They might you know, my familymight not think it's okay that
you know they want to help, butI have the kitchen clean while
they're still sitting at thetable having coffee.
Right, they wanted to show mymother they were doing it.
So I think it's reallyimportant to own up to yourself,
who you are.
And there's a really funny memethat's been going around for a
(22:45):
while on Facebook and it's ayoung man and he says I spent so
much time trying to avoid myparents' obvious red flags that
I forgot about the small ones.
And he's at the sink washingout a Ziploc bag.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
So my entire job is for you to think about why you
get triggered.
Is it historical, hysterical?
Is it something from your past,Like you just said, you don't
even know you're doing, You'vejust always been doing it.
Is it something you learned ina certain workplace, because
that was the culture there?
Is it something that's insideof you that you know?
(23:28):
You just have anxiety andthat's how you show up.
So I think that once you startto realize, hey, I'm not a bad
person because I do this, but Ican be a better person, I can
show up better, I can know who Iam.
It's all about knowingourselves and honoring that then
other people can.
I can help other people betterif I'm more relatable and I can
(23:52):
tone down some of my obviouspersonality quirks.
Let's call it.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
I love that.
Do you notice any differencebetween the different
generations, like millennialsversus older people?
Because I know I hear aboutthat a lot in my practice.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
So just curious if that's something that comes up
yeah, huge, huge differences,but I have a new theory that I'm
happy to share.
So, right, some of thedifferences are that, um, older
people are used to just beingtold what to do and go do it, or
think they know what to do andjust do it.
Millennials, gen Xers, whateveris below that, they want to
(24:30):
know.
Millennials, older people, babyboomers, they're thinking about
what's in it.
For me, that's not what they'resaying.
They want to understand thewhole picture, the value, so
they understand where they fitin.
So, once that you can see thatdifference that we talked before
about the coffee maker, right,I want to understand that after
(24:50):
I roast the coffee, this is howit's going to be packaged, this
is where it's going, this is whomight use it.
Then I understand what to dowith the coffee.
Instead of you package it, youdo that and put it on the shelf
Done.
That doesn't really value thewhole person, and I'm using the
(25:14):
coffee as an example.
But I think that's a reallygood way to manage any
interaction with friends, family.
I need this because this iswhat's happening before and
after Give people a context sothey can better help you.
So I think that's the biggestdifference that I see between
the generations.
And I'm really seeing somethinginteresting lately, which is
you know a lot of people my age,boomers and whatever came after
me.
You know millennials maybe theywell, it's not millennials but a
(25:38):
lot of people complain about.
Well, they got trophies, theyhad all these trophies.
They all think they're so good.
It's actually the opposite.
The people that got so manytrophies didn't know what was
real anymore.
They didn't know if theircontribution mattered.
They didn't know if what theydid really mattered.
They didn't really know how tojudge what was important,
(26:08):
understand their role in asituation.
We ask you to do this becausethis happens.
We ask you to do that in afamily.
My daughter says it's amazinghow you know.
She says now you know she hasher own house and she lives with
a partner, how she understands,like, how to pay the bills, why
we pay them on time, all thedifferent things, why you're
nice to your super, how you dothis, things that you know.
(26:32):
I explained to her why do we dothis, why do we do that, what's
nice, how do we prepare forthings?
Because that gives her incontext what she has to do.
That's the funny part.
I think it's very funny becausewhen one generation what's the
word?
When one generation is verybusy criticizing another it's
everything we've been talkingabout.
They're pointing the finger atthem.
Well, they got trophies, theydid this.
Well, my generation is so busycollecting certificates and
(26:54):
coaching degrees and thingsafter their name to prove
they're worthy, which is exactlythe same thing as a trophy,
right?
It's the same exact thing.
I can go through a program andget a degree.
Do I really know what I'm doing?
I can play on a soccer team andget a trophy.
So I think it goes back to thatfinger pointing.
So is that your entire defenseabout why you can't work with
(27:16):
someone?
For me, that's not someone Iwant to work with.
That's not someone who'sinvested in my growth and
actually showing me what I mightnot see.
That was a long answer, but didthat make sense?
A hundred?
Speaker 5 (27:27):
percent.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (27:28):
So do you feel like that that's a common problem
with kind of more, because it ismuch easier just human nature
to want to blame others foreverything and have a more of a
victim mentality all the time.
Do you feel that that's aproblem in a lot of the cases
you see?
Speaker 4 (27:41):
You know, victim mentality is something really,
really different.
I think you have to really beable to separate it out from
laziness, because I think theyshow up the same way and I think
that, because of everythingthat's happening in the world,
you know, people have become alittle lazy, right?
I don't know if it's worthhaving this job, I don't know if
(28:01):
it's worth driving to that job,I don't know if this is going
to yield me enough money, andpeople have learned to sit back
and wait.
Now I work with entrepreneurswho are anything but lazy
anything but lazy and in theentrepreneurial world, that is
the thing.
They have to see the entirepicture.
They have to know, you knowwhat my funding might be, what
(28:23):
the idea, who else is out there?
Who are my champions, whoaren't?
So I think that if you cantease out the laziness, there
are a lot of victims out there.
There are people who have thatlearned behavior.
It's never going to work for meanyway, or you know I can do it
.
But I really think it's aboutinvesting in someone and not
worrying about where they comefrom, but telling them what the
(28:45):
expectation is and asking themto rise to the occasion, even in
personal issues.
Right, you know, with our ownchildren being able to say, you
know, we're having a big crowdfor Thanksgiving this year.
This is how I really need youto support me.
And my daughter will say to mewell, ma, I can't do that
(29:06):
because this, and I'm like, well, what can you do for me?
So, having the conversationinstead of you know saying do
this, do that, and barking atthem then they don't do it, you
get into it.
I mean, that's kind of gardenvariety, but you know what I'm
saying?
It's really a much bigger issueabout honoring the other person
.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
What I'm hearing, eileen, is that everybody
running a company should have asocial work degree.
Yes, Some sort of therapydegree, because I think it would
make everything just so much.
Speaker 4 (29:33):
Well, funny, you should say that If any of you
are Star Trek fans, what we knowabout Star Trek is Steve Jobs,
who really, you know, createdthe phone that he credits to
Star Trek.
The computer Alexa's going totalk if I talk to her.
You know, alexa play this andall this AI.
In the second generation ofStar Trek, next Generation,
(29:56):
there are three seats on thebridge that runs the company or
the ship.
It's not just the captain, it'sthe captain, his number two,
who's always operationalizingand helping him to think through
, and the counselor, just whatyou just said, because our
emotions are so important in howwe help others and help
(30:16):
ourselves and how we cancontribute, so important.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
It's so important it really is, and I think even more
in this day and age, because Ithink there's more of a
realization nowadays that peoplework differently.
Just like kids learndifferently in school, people
work differently.
We all can only work from ourown perspectives too, and, I
think, trying to gel that.
And I also feel that on teams,for the most part, everybody is
(30:41):
in competition with each othertoo, and that's very hard
because you know you have towork together as a team, but you
also want to be the best on theteam too, and it's very hard to
manage all of that, and veryhard for somebody who's leading
that team if they're not wellversed in you know human
behavior and therapy andcounseling how to do that the
(31:02):
right way without affecting theteam in some way.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Yeah, I'm really amazed by what usually the four
of you do.
I've listened to quite a few ofyour podcasts and I love how
one takes the lead and youfollow up.
I mean you are really modelingthat incredible partnership and
team behavior of.
Here's my strength, here's yourstrength, and how do we all
grow together stronger insteadof, you know, a jockeying for
(31:29):
position?
And I think that when you'reout there doing it in the world,
hopefully people see it andthey learn how to do it.
But you're right, you know,being a member of a team I mean
everybody that's in arelationship knows it's hard
work.
But the first relationship wehave to be honest about is the
one with ourselves.
Who are?
Are we really?
How do we show up?
And let's face it, you knowpeople say to me so what's the
(31:51):
chance that I'm going to beannoyed by my lover, my
boyfriend, my mother, myneighbor, my coworker?
And I say a hundred percent andthey look at me and say you
can't say that.
I'm like no, I pretty muchthink I can.
You know, look at any newspaper.
Someone is going to annoy you,and not from what you think
usually.
So how we think about whattriggers us, trigger not being a
(32:13):
bad word.
It's not someone holding a gunto your head.
It's about a trigger, is astart of a reaction.
So I always like to say ourreactions speak louder than our
actions, because we come inplanning to do one thing and
then the birthday cake isn't theright color or, you know, the
table is set up wrong and we cango on something.
(32:34):
Does it really matter whatcolor the birthday cake is Right
?
But sometimes it does.
But you know what I'm saying.
But really in that moment it'sthe long run and we can go down
a road like a bullet.
That's why it's called atrigger.
It starts a reaction.
So the more that we can own ourown behavior and know who we
are and manage our annoying self, the better we can get along
(32:56):
with other people and help themto enjoy the day and have fun
and want to work with us andshow up.
And that's the goal right.
We're part of this human racefor a reason Absolutely.
Speaker 5 (33:06):
You made a good point .
Obviously, we can all beannoying, like laugh a little
more.
We can all be annoying, andthere's always annoying people.
With all the things you'veworked with, what would you say
are probably the top threecharacter traits or behaviors
that you feel like people needto work on to be less annoying?
Speaker 4 (33:25):
So one is over-talking.
I am so guilty of that right,you have such, you know, you
gotta say it, you gotta say it,you gotta say it.
So people over-talk and that isincredibly annoying.
I think the second behavior ispeople don't what we were
talking about before.
They don't explain themselves.
They say because I'm the mother, because that's the way I said
(33:48):
it, because that's the way Iwant it.
They don't actually even with asentence say I'll explain it to
you later.
Or oh, I'm thinking thisbecause last time I did it.
That way they don't spend thetime to tell someone what
they're thinking.
So I think a little bit ofinformation is really important.
And then I think the other oneis very personal.
(34:09):
I call them historicalhysterical triggers.
There's something that maybe itcomes from your mother or your
grandmother or your next doorneighbor, an old babysitter,
that triggers you and I can'tsay what that is.
But that's why it's all aboutlike individuals, because
something you know, the sameperson.
We've all done this right.
(34:30):
We get a text from a friend andwe send it to another friend
and say should I be mad aboutthis?
What do you think of this?
And they're like oh no, there'snothing wrong with it, and
meanwhile you were like I can't.
What are they saying that?
How dare they?
How dare they?
So that's your personalhistorical hysterical trigger,
your personal historicalhysterical trigger.
So that's why it's so importantto know ourselves.
And the point is so, I can'ttell you what it is, but I can
(34:51):
tell you how it shows up.
Right, we show up nasty.
We show up disinterested.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
We show up angry, we say things that give us the
cringe factor.
When I do couples therapy imagotherapy I know you're probably
familiar with that but imagotherapy is, you know, you're an
image and so that things thathave happened in your past you
bring into your present.
So if you had a controllingfather who called you a liar a
lot, then when you get caught aliar, then suddenly that's your
trigger.
That's like, oh my gosh, thisis the end of the world and it's
(35:19):
not.
You know.
You can't kind of overcome that.
So it's just little things thattrigger us that we're not aware
of, that have happened eitherin the past or like a big event
in our lives that we need to beaware of moving forward so that
if that happens it's not thatperson.
You know.
If someone's been cheated onand we have trust issues, it's
like, well, the new person isnot that person.
But it's hard, you know, tokind of move forward in that way
(35:40):
.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
Yeah, and I think that is so deep and that is, I
think, the best kind of work wecan do for ourselves and for
others, because it's it's it's,you know, at this point, it's
only us that's stoppingourselves from from being able
to overcome that Right,especially if it's in the past,
it's a behavior that we've taken.
(36:01):
I'm writing a second book nowand we're searching for a title
that we've taken.
I'm writing a second book nowand we're searching for a title,
but it's really this one ismanaging, annoying people.
So how do you stay calm wheneverybody around you is I need
this, I need that, and they'redriving you crazy?
And this book is really about.
How do I see my own patterns?
How do I see what I do time andtime again?
I'm someone that you know I.
(36:24):
I grew up in a house with a lotof scarcity, so I'm someone that
you know I, uh, I grew up in ahouse with a lot of scarcity, so
I'm someone that you know.
Every scrap of food, every pod,current pod, everything has to
be saved and accounted for and Ihave to know where it is.
And, um, my, uh, you know my,my daughter, I can drive her
crazy with it.
So how did I learn to let gowhen the delivery Chinese food
(36:47):
comes and they have all thoseleftover chopsticks and mustards
and so on.
So you know, I had to learn tosay in our house oh honey, where
do you want these?
We must have had a drawer, oneof the biggest drawers in the
kitchen, filled with all of thatdelivery stuff that you don't
know what to do with.
If I can't throw it out, I needit.
I come from scarcity.
I won't forget it.
I'm in my daughter's kitchen andI could tell she probably
practiced it in therapy.
(37:07):
I'm like oh, where do you wantthe chopsticks?
She goes ma I don't keep them.
And I said okay and put them inthe garbage.
And she looked at me and she'slike who are you?
What have you done with my life?
And those are the stories thatI'm trying to get to now,
because who would think thatthrowing?
When she said, ma, I don't keepthose.
(37:27):
And I didn't talk her intosaving those chopsticks and why
she needs them, I said okay andthrew them out, that that would
bring our relationship and ourtrust to another level.
That she would say, wow, you'rereally working on yourself.
That has driven me crazy aboutyou, you're, you know my entire
life, so I think that it'sreally important to look at it
and, like you just said, it'ssometimes very little things
(37:49):
that we grew up with, like thestory I was giving about washing
out a Ziploc bag that reallycan make a difference in how we
relate to others and, honestly,in how we spend our time and how
we spend our time.
Instead of rushing around andmaking everything perfect, we
have more time for creativity,to get on the floor and play
with our children, to go visitour mothers, to help someone out
(38:10):
.
So all these kind of littleways we get stuck.
They don't only annoy otherpeople, they kind of take away
from ourselves.
We annoy ourselves, and that'swhat I'm really invested in now
thinking about how you findthose subtle patterns of your
life, no matter where they camefrom.
No matter where they came from100%.
Amazing.
Speaker 5 (38:30):
I think that's what we've always talked about is
just growth.
Throughout our life is reallyevolving, and introspection and
trying to be better, because wecan always be better.
Every one of us can always bebetter.
So I think it's great and Ilove how what you've said is
really relatable to just work,life, everything, and so I think
it's awesome.
And but tell us the name ofyour book again, because I I
want to order it as soon as weend tonight so thank you, it's
(38:54):
on.
Speaker 4 (38:55):
It's on amazon.
It's managing annoying people.
It's got a bright oh here,funny, oh you would.
It's a podcast but has a brightorange cover Managing Lying
People and you know some of thebook has so right on Amazon.
So it has my favorite acronymTEAM Together.
Everyone Annoys Me.
Speaker 5 (39:18):
I love that that's awesome.
I love those.
I really, really appreciate youcoming and I have to tell you
Ashley sent a text while we weredoing this saying that she is
really sorry.
She had this emergency with herair conditioning and she was so
sad.
I love for sure, and me Same.
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
Thank you, ladies for not letting me annoy you, no,
you did not, not at all.
Speaker 5 (39:50):
You were wonderful.
Keep doing what you're doing.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, have a great night.
Thank you, bye-bye.
She was awesome.
Oh, that was so good.
Yes, makes a lot of sense thoughright it does looking at your
own behavior and how you impactother people and I was.
I was very annoying thismorning with my husband and
(40:10):
saying that as we were doinglike it was really annoying
earlier, he threw my routine offbecause I always let the dogs
out.
He let the dogs out like aheadof time and then I hadn't taken
the puppy.
I've just messed up the routineand I was.
I was very frustrated.
I'm like that was so stupid tolike act a little annoyed over
that.
It's just a dumb thing.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
It happens, yeah, hate on the structure is
changing yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
I just it's like you were expected to go this way and
then it goes that way, and then, like people are like, oh, no,
it needs to go the other way,yeah, but I do think that's true
.
Like things from our past comeup right, like in therapy, I see
all the time people, thingsfrom their past come up and if
they're triggered in the hereand now, it's just like, oh, I
don't trust anybody or I don't,like you, know anything like
this.
It's just different.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
I love how she wasn't like placing blame on it.
Speaker 5 (40:56):
No.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
You know that kind of way, like that, even when you
brought up the fact of differentgenerations and stuff that you
can see, because I always feelthat when I'm teaching, like
because I have a huge range,it's like you have a huge range
of people you see, yes, so, butI get to see the way that they
work and how they, like, learnsomething.
And everyone's alwayscomplaining.
Older generations are alwayscomplaining about the younger
ones and vice versa.
(41:18):
I was like these kids areamazing.
Yeah, they are With what theydeal with.
We didn't have to deal withwhat they deal with, like, their
lives are so different.
They amaze me what they can letroll off their backs.
Scott and I get really upsetabout things you know that are
posted or said about us.
You know, and the kids just go.
(41:38):
Why do you care?
Speaker 3 (41:41):
Who cares right?
What are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (41:42):
That's said about people every day.
Get over it.
It's just like, yeah, it's sofunny.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
I think the thing that I loved about her, too, is
that she was like I was theannoying person, like it's not
coming back.
Oh, everyone was annoying me.
When I was like a boss orwhatever she's like, I was the
annoying person.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
I was like oh, that makes sense.
I also wish people sometimesthat annoy would turn around and
go listen.
That's really annoying.
But then my feelings would beso hurt.
Oh yeah, I see I'd be like, ohGod.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
Okay, that makes sense.
Yes, I would too.
I'd be like, yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
I understand.
I guess it's all introspection.
I mean it really is.
It's always easier to blamesomeone else for everything, but
like, okay, what part did Ihave in that?
You know, Of course it's likebe a problem solver.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Just be a decent human.
Like we can all be annoying,but just be a decent human.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
You know, yeah, don't , don't intentionally meet the
cause harm.
Yes.
Speaker 5 (42:38):
Be decently annoying.
When, in doubt, shut your mouth.
Oh, that's it.
Cheers to that, here we go.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Thank you for joining the ladies of the Middle
Age-ish podcast as they journeythrough the ups and downs of
this not young but definitelynot old season of life.
To hear past episodes or makesuggestions for future episodes,
visit www.
Middleageishcom.
That's www.
Wwwmiddleageishcom.
That's wwwmiddleageishcom.
(43:08):
You can follow along on socialmedia at Middle Age-ish Also, if
you have a moment, to leave areview, rate and subscribe.
That helps others find the showand we greatly appreciate it.
Once again, thank you so muchfor joining us and we'll catch
you in the next episode of theMiddle Age-ish Podcast.
Welcome to the Middle Age-ish Podcast, authentically
and unapologetically keeping itreal, discussing all things
Middle Age-ish, a time whenmetabolism slows and confidence
grows.
Join fashion and fitnessentrepreneur Ashley Badowski,
former Celtic woman and founderof the Lisa Kelly Voice Academy.
Lisa Kelly, licensedpsychologist and mental health
(00:24):
expert, dr Pam Wright and highlysought after cosmetic injector
and board certified nursepractitioner, tricia
Kennedy-Roman.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Join your hosts on the journey of Middle Age-ish.
Hello everyone and welcome toanother episode of Middle
Age-ish'm.
Lisa Kelly and I'm joinedtonight by Trisha Kennedy-Roman
and Dr Pam Wright.
We're actually missing MissAshley today because her AC is
broken so she had to get itfixed, but we are so excited to
welcome our guest this evening,eileen Marcus.
(00:58):
She's a much sought afterspeaker with helpful advice for
anyone stuck in their everydayclimb, and she is also the
author of Managing AnnoyingPeople and a blogger for Sixty
and Me.
You are very welcome to ourshow this evening, miss Eileen.
We're delighted to have you.
I love the name of that book.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yes, You'll have to tell us all about how to deal
with annoying people.
I need this in my life.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
Yes, thanks for having me Very excited to be
here.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
So tell us about your book, Ali.
I mean, I'm sure we could allwrite plenty of things about
annoying people, but managingthem seems to be a bit hard for
most people.
Speaker 4 (01:36):
Well, let me start with it's so annoying that
Ashley is not here, because Ireally connected with her, so
shout out to Ashley B forreaching out and all that.
So I wrote this book becauseit's a handbook on how to manage
me.
I was annoying.
I was that superstar who got itdone, who everybody turned to,
that was promoting through theranks, but boy, was I a handful.
(01:57):
I wanted your time, I wantedyour information, I wanted more
resources, I wanted that office,I wanted it this way, and
that's a lot for a boss tohandle.
Especially when I startedmanaging my own team and oversaw
about 10,000 people, I realizedI am surrounded by a team of
mini-me's and they're driving mecrazy.
And the book was born,basically, and it really talks
(02:19):
about how to find peace andserenity and watch our own
behaviors so that we can show upthat way and be more of a
reflection of who we want theothers to be.
So it's really managing othersis about managing yourself.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
Yeah, it reminds me.
I just saw a quote that said bethe person that you want to
work with, and I guess thatthat's kind of what you're
saying there with that.
Yes.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
You know, a lot of CEOs invited me into their inner
sanctum, right into their teammeetings, to meet with them and
see why they're not getting whatthey want from their staff.
And time after time I had toturn around and say look at what
you're giving.
You're getting upset, You'rerolling your eyes, You're on
your phone.
How do you expect your staff tobe present or honest with you
(03:02):
when that's not what you'redoing?
And there's a real subtle twisthere when you think you're
building your team becausethere's one person that's
annoying or doesn't dress rightor you know you all think is
crazy and you are kind of, youknow, bonding with everybody
else over, that that switches onyou.
There becomes a point therewhere everybody says wait a
(03:22):
minute, wait a minute, thatcould be me in the future, and
then everything falls apart.
So it's really important thatyou be the kind of person that
you want people to work with,that, if your values are
integrity and honesty andopenness and collaboration, that
that's what you show and youstay present for your staff.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
That's super important, do you find when
you're.
When you're talking about this,though, do you approach it
differently if it's a man or awoman, because I kind of feel
sometimes that if a woman is ago-getter, and a woman wants
things done and wants everything, then she's considered annoying
or bossy, whereas we don't adoubt that does exist.
Speaker 4 (03:59):
But I always come at it when I coach people or I
talked well when I coach them.
Definitely very different Withwomen it's a lot about.
I know you're not beingannoying, but this is what they
hear, this is what they see,this is what they're saying.
So I was in a meeting recentlywhere a woman said I have given
(04:21):
him that folder and that formright.
She's an administrator.
One of the department headsneeded to fill something out and
she said I have given it to himfive times here in the emails.
Here's some times I gave them.
Here's what I've done.
And I looked at her and I saidbut he's saying he doesn't have
it and what he needs is yourhelp.
So saying you gave it to him,that's not what he's hearing.
(04:43):
What he's hearing is I didn'tget any help.
You emailed it to me and youwiped your hands of it.
Might be a little bit of adifferent conversation with a
guy.
With a guy it might be.
Did you go over and sit withhim?
What did you do?
I don't have to deal so muchwith what they're thinking about
you.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
I just have to tell the man what he should go do you
know I'm a psychologist and alot of times working with people
like they see other people's, Iguess like annoying habits or
bad habits, but getting them tobe introspective and look at
their own things can be reallydifficult.
So how do you go about helpingthem to do that?
Because you're right, I mean,everyone has their own quirks
and annoying tendencies andthings.
(05:19):
How do you get them to likedial into that?
How do you get them to likedial into that.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Well, I have a tagline that says you'll laugh,
you'll cringe, you'll changewhen you see your own behavior
sometimes, or you see it insomeone else.
That's what really gets yougoing.
I say that all the way.
You know I'm into Shakespeare.
These days All the world's astage, but all the world is a
mirror and either we have whatwe see we're like, we like that
(05:45):
that's us, or we don't like it.
So, getting people to look atthemselves about how others
might perceive themselves, beopen to the possibility Simple
tricks.
Right, it's the pointed finger.
You point the finger at thatperson.
You got three back at you.
Any way you can get someone tothink about.
Certainly, what might I bedoing?
(06:05):
I'm not saying for me that theother person is not annoying.
I'm not telling you that you'renot right about what they're
doing and they didn't do theirjob and they should be doing it
better.
But as long as they're moral,ethical and competent, then it's
incumbent on you especiallynowadays with Zoom and all the
different modes of communicationit's really incumbent on you to
(06:27):
say how can I best get mymessage across?
What can I change?
So my entire job is basicallygetting people to see their BS,
their blind spots, the thingsthey don't see.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
I love that.
I love that too.
I love that too.
I'd love to be able to do that.
I'd love to be able to do thatwith myself because, again, I
work for myself, so I don't haveto worry about annoying too
many people, but it's just whenyou're dealing.
I deal with kids every day, soeven trying to get them to
notice what they're doing, theirbehavior, and try and stop it
(07:02):
in their tracks now is like it'ssomething gosh I struggle with
and I get very impatient attimes.
Speaker 5 (07:10):
One thing I've noticed before is just like when
I might see a parent playing ontheir phone instead of playing
with, you know, a painted gingerkid, and I think, oh my gosh,
that looks horrible.
But I've done that, you know.
So it's very easy to look atother people you know and think,
wow, they really snapped attheir husband and that was
really awful.
Well, I've done that, you know.
So I think it's much easier tolook at someone else and see
when they're doing wrong than itis yourself.
(07:30):
So I think that introspect isreally important.
I call that one.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
Goldilocksing right.
We all know the story aboutGoldilocks and the three bears,
do we?
I mean, other generations don'tknow it, but Goldilocks goes
into this house.
She's tired.
She stumbles upon a house, youknow she wants to porridge.
The big bowl is too hot.
The other bowl is too cold.
The little bowl, you know.
(07:53):
The middle bowl is just right.
Bed too soft, too hard, justright.
And we all think about, likelet's right size our behavior
right, because no one is perfectall the time.
We all get annoyed, we all havea bad day.
We're human, we all, you know,have.
I mean, even the computer ishuman.
Sometimes it doesn't do whatyou want it to do, it hiccups.
So we have to forgive ourselvesthat.
So we all want to right size.
(08:14):
But why I call it Goldilocksing?
Is, as soon as you are lookingat someone else's behavior and
judging them, we forget thatGoldilocks was trespassing.
She was in someone else's house.
She broke and entered.
We don't want to be trespassers, we don't want them doing it to
us.
So do you want someone eatingyour porridge?
Do you want someone else takingyour inventory?
(08:36):
So I say notice your BS and donot trespass into someone else's
area.
Stay away.
Don't Goldilocks it.
Find the right size, but do notcross that boundary which is
not yours, when I work withadolescents.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
sometimes parents will tell me like, oh, they have
these tantrums and it's likehorrible.
And I'm like, oh, ok, well, Idon't know, but like film them
and like let's see.
And as soon as they go to filmif it's a kid or an adolescent,
they freak out like they don'twant to be filmed at all,
because I mean, they know,obviously right, like this is
going to look really, really badfor my therapist or my teacher
or whoever.
And so I think that if we hadcameras around us 24-7 to see
(09:16):
you know, really see ourbehaviors, it would make a big
change.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
You know, a lot of people ask me Eileen, what tools
do you need to do your job?
I'm like my phone.
It's the same thing with CEOs.
You say, oh, can I just tapeyour team?
And at first, the first five or10 minutes they're all on
perfect behavior, and then theyforget that you're taping and
when I show it back to them,there's that cringe factor,
exactly.
So it works really well at anyage and that's really important
(09:43):
also for friends, for teams, foranyone, because anyone can be
taping you at any time, whetherit's work, it's not work.
It's a PTA meeting.
You're in a bar and you saysomething you know.
Just you think you're beingfunny to your friends and if you
have a public position or awork position or anything,
neighbors, it can get picked upwrong.
So the world has really changedin that way and if you embrace
(10:05):
that instead of running from it,really think about you know, if
other people were looking downon me.
Is that who I want to be?
That's another good way ofreally really changing your
behavior.
Is that who I want to be?
Is that how I want to show up?
I want to tell you a funny storyabout reflective listening,
though, because, because youknow I'm in the field and, um,
(10:25):
when my daughter my daughter'solder now she's 29, but when she
was young, she went throughthat phase where you know, um, I
would say, samantha, pack yourbag, you pack your bag.
You know they do that thingthat you, samantha, go take a
bath.
You take a bath, right, youknow, she kept on doing that to
me.
And there's something calledrespective, which is a great
social work or therapy or aninterview tool.
(10:47):
I'm sure you use it as atherapist and it's a great tool
where someone says I don't likethe way you did that and you say
, oh, you don't like the waythat happened.
Right, you reflect back to getmore information, not to put
words in their mouth, butsometimes when they hear
themselves, they hear itdifferently.
I say I said, you just saidthat.
(11:10):
And they're like, oh, I didjust say it.
People don't always hearthemselves, but when I was
managing, one time this man saidto me hey, I need you and I'm
like you go file the forms, andhe's like he took me to HR over
it.
I was flip, right, and I washis boss, but I was so in that
head and it was fine and Iapologize, but he didn't know
that I was at home, you know,with my daughter and her 20
(11:31):
other eight-year-olds, and I'mlike you go file the form
because I was throwing back athim what I was hearing.
So those mimicking and thatreflective listening is really,
you know, it's a very powerfultool that we forget to use.
Speaker 5 (11:45):
I was just thinking, as we were talking about this,
that it would really be not funto be on a reality TV show,
because it is recorded and thenyou will look back on yourself
and see all the things you did.
Yeah, but it is funny.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
It's so funny how quickly you forget cameras are
around.
I always say that about realityTV and I know they have edits
and everything but like if youhave a camera following you
around for a while, you reallyare on your best behavior for
only about 10 minutes and thenyou just forget that they're
there and you just go so freefor all.
Yeah, I've cussed so many times.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
Yeah, you start to feel comfortable.
It can happen in a variety ofways.
So that's a really good way tolook at managing yourself.
Who do I want to be?
And how does that come out?
Because we've all been in thatposition, whether at work or
birthday party, even for thekids where we said something
where we're like why did I saythat?
You know, maybe someone had abetter present or a car we liked
(12:39):
better, and we're like, well, I, you know, and you're like why
was I upping them?
So you have to look withinyourself to what that is.
But you have to.
You know, I really work withpeople and myself to train what
I call how to get out of our ownway, how not to say something
cringeworthy.
You know where is that comingfrom.
When in doubt, shut your mouth.
(12:59):
I mean, that is the best adviceI can give anyone, and we're
taught in this world, especiallywomen, to speak up, to use our
voice.
But I always go by the sayingsay what you mean, mean what you
say, but don't say it meanly.
And it's really good to shutyour mouth first and reflect on
(13:20):
what you want to say.
You know you can always say itagain.
It might not be in the moment.
It might not be at the righttime, but the situation you're
in is not what I like to say isyour last bite at the apple, so
just sit back and get someperspective.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
It can change everything especially what comes
out of your mouth.
Yeah, I love that because Ifeel like sometimes people want
to jump in too quickly and theywant to, you know, say something
or feel like they have toanswer something immediately,
versus saying, hey, let me takea while and think about that or
let me get back to you tomorrow.
And I do supervision withinterns and the thing that they
have the most difficulty with issilence.
(13:54):
So, just sitting in a room witha client and if they're
silenced they want to jump inbecause they're uncomfortable,
just to like fill the space andask a question and move forward,
but it's like really, you justneed to sit with a silence and
see what comes from that, butit's so hard, I think, for
people to do.
Speaker 4 (14:10):
I'm so glad you said that because it reminds me of
one of my favorite tools that Itrain people on and that is
called the secret smile.
Think about Mona Lisa.
We do not know why Mona Lisa issmiling.
We don't know what's happeningunder her dress.
Not to get rude, we don't knowanything and we don't really
know right.
There's been a thesis andpeople and you know, years of
(14:33):
commentary Is that the firstturned up smile?
Is it a known smile?
So I say have the secret smile.
So when you're sitting quiet,have a look on your face that
makes others think what are theyup to?
And that helps to preoccupy you.
So you keep your mouth shut,but it also puts others on edge.
So if you're not sure about thesituation and how to respond,
(14:53):
it's going to change thetemperature of the room a little
.
You can get a little moreinformation if you use that
secret smile and of course weall know that it takes much less
muscles to smile than it doesto frown.
So you present yourself betterand you're gathering some vital
information.
So I say smile like you have asecret and be surprised what you
(15:16):
can learn, and it helps you tosit silent.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So do you just do you go into corporate businesses
and speak to them, or do youspend a lot of time actually
training people?
And if so, how long does ittake to reprogram people?
Speaker 4 (15:45):
not on why their team isn't gelling and that always
that could be, you know, from afinancial perspective, from an
operational, from a new, a newproject launch, and that always
ends up being team behaviorwho's not listening, who's not
paying attention.
There's always somemiscommunication.
So I usually go in and workwith the CEO and his team around
a project where they've calledin the accountant and they've
called in this person, but theycan't find that reason why it's
(16:07):
not coming together, why thewhole isn't greater than some of
the parts.
And then it all comes down tothis.
And I'm the kind of girl youknow took me a long time to
admit this, ladies I'm a onenight stand kind of girl.
I like to get in and get out.
I don't like long termrelationships.
So most of my it's true, mostof my corporate relationships,
you know, are, you know, oversometimes a 10 week period, a
(16:31):
five week period, three to fivemeetings.
If I'm really digging into yourfinances and kind of how your
priorities are resting, yourfinance doesn't have your team
is following them or not mightbe 10 or 12 meetings.
So it's a really quick thing.
It's usually most of the time.
One of the things about me isI'm very much a straight shooter
(16:51):
.
I say people have to want towork with a strong cup of coffee
.
I love coffee and I love strongcoffee.
And that's me I'm going toreally tell you right up front.
So my work engagements areusually short but I have them.
People come back to me everyfew years when they need a
cleanup.
I have an incredible, incrediblerepeat business and actually
(17:12):
now I'm trying to move my butnow that I'm older and wiser,
I'm not middle-aged just likeyou ladies anymore.
I'm almost end of middle-agedbody about how they hear people,
how they manage themselves andhow that impacts the whole team
(17:36):
and that really focuses on howthey contribute to the bottom
line, how what they do every day.
I like to say you know I'm abig coffee person, so whether
they're picking the beans,roasting the beans, serving the
beans or sweeping up after thebeans, you have a place that's
important to make that cup ofcoffee happen.
And how do you honor thatcontribution and how do you
honor that as being a good teammember.
So I mostly now speak to groupsabout, you know, managing
(18:03):
yourself and teams that aregearing up for a big project.
So that's usually, you know, 45minutes an hour, maybe some
breakout sessions.
So that's a long answer, butthere are many different ways to
work with me, but I usuallycome in through the CEO, help
the team gel, motivate them,make them cringe, make them
laugh, hopefully leave them withsomething they'll remember and
move on.
Speaker 5 (18:19):
I think that really, what you're talking about is
something that is not justapplicable to work.
I mean, obviously this would bewith you know, friendships,
marriages, parenting.
I think really, what you'resaying is is kind of apply it to
all aspects of your life.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
A hundred percent and you know that's something.
I'm a social worker by trainingand I I I joke about it that I
just, you know, do social workin the corporate setting,
because it all comes down tohelping people to see what
they're bringing into thesituation.
I always use the example ofwe're late.
That morning, whatever, youknow, I spilled a cup of coffee.
(18:56):
You know I had a problem withmy car and all of a sudden I
have to get to work.
And we all know the story,right, the person in front of
you, the red lights.
The day that you're late,everyone else is taking their
time.
So when you show up andsometimes there's no reason,
right, you're just running latewhen you show up, you're already
hyped up, you're alreadyannoyed and you think, wow, I
(19:18):
got here.
You're patting yourself on theback and saying, look at me, I,
you know, I jumped 40 obstaclesthis morning and I got it done.
Instead, you're already showingup, revved up.
I have never seen a person thatdoesn't get a little road rage,
that doesn't carry that onthroughout the day.
So you're bringing something toit and then other people are
reacting to you and a lot oftimes you are bringing, you know
(19:41):
, family situations into work orwork situations into family.
It really does go both ways.
So what you're saying is really, really important and I think
the important thing about what Ido and why I can be a one night
stand girl trying to think ofsomething.
It's just not coming off thetop of my head.
But you know how you like mighthave trouble.
(20:02):
This is a bad example.
But filling your dishwasherright, the dishes always come
out dirty.
You can't understand why youhave the newest high power
dishwasher using the top of theline, jet dry, and somehow your
glasses are never clean.
And then someone comes over andsays, oh, just line them up
this way and they will bedifferent.
And you're like, oh, that'swhat I wasn't doing, and now you
can just do that, that's what Ido.
(20:24):
I don't have to, you know,train you on all these
techniques I have to point outto you, get you to see that you
know, like the glasses, they'rea little fuzzy to see yourself
differently or to see here's howyou could handle that
differently.
And then most of the timepeople are off and running.
Once they see it, they'remotivated to change and they can
catch themselves.
(20:44):
And if not, I suggest therapy.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Yes, but it's kind of the same.
It's the same kind of thing astherapy.
It's things that you don't seeand you don't recognize in
yourself at the time whereyou've been doing something the
same way for such a long timeand you've gotten stuck in that
rut and it works.
I think that's sometimes youknow the thing with when you're
around people like that thatyou're operating a certain way
(21:07):
and it's worked for so long, sowhy change it?
And then you kind of blame theother people coming in that
they're not able to keep up orthat kind of thing, and I think
that's hard.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
Yeah, I think that's exactly on point.
I'm working on a team nowthat's falling apart.
I'm putting together anentrepreneurial weekend and
behind the back they're.
I'm putting together for anentrepreneurial weekend and
behind the back they're alltelling me well, this one's
jealous of this one and thisone's jealous of that one.
I'm like, ok, first of all, arewe in elementary school, are we
?
You know, let's work withprofessionals here.
(21:37):
These are very well-respectedpeople in their field.
It's always, you know, theylike love telling stories about
the others.
But I think that you knowthat's exactly it.
It's that, especially if it'sworked for us.
I know that's what happened tome.
I got promoted quickly.
(21:58):
I had big teams.
I always had people that reallyliked me and champions, but I
always had fights and this andthat, and it always, I want to
say, ended badly because I wasvery lucky.
I parachuted to the next thingor the next or got promoted
because I was competent, butuntil I could really understand
who I was and how, they mightnot think it's cute that I come
(22:21):
in as a whirlwind.
They might not think it's cutethat I pick apart their plan the
way I do.
They might, you know, my familymight not think it's cute that
I pick apart their plan the wayI do.
They might you know, my familymight not think it's okay that
you know they want to help, butI have the kitchen clean while
they're still sitting at thetable having coffee.
Right, they wanted to show mymother they were doing it.
So I think it's reallyimportant to own up to yourself,
who you are.
And there's a really funny memethat's been going around for a
(22:45):
while on Facebook and it's ayoung man and he says I spent so
much time trying to avoid myparents' obvious red flags that
I forgot about the small ones.
And he's at the sink washingout a Ziploc bag.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
So my entire job is for you to think about why you
get triggered.
Is it historical, hysterical?
Is it something from your past,Like you just said, you don't
even know you're doing, You'vejust always been doing it.
Is it something you learned ina certain workplace, because
that was the culture there?
Is it something that's insideof you that you know?
(23:28):
You just have anxiety andthat's how you show up.
So I think that once you startto realize, hey, I'm not a bad
person because I do this, but Ican be a better person, I can
show up better, I can know who Iam.
It's all about knowingourselves and honoring that then
other people can.
I can help other people betterif I'm more relatable and I can
(23:52):
tone down some of my obviouspersonality quirks.
Let's call it.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
I love that.
Do you notice any differencebetween the different
generations, like millennialsversus older people?
Because I know I hear aboutthat a lot in my practice.
Speaker 4 (24:07):
So just curious if that's something that comes up
yeah, huge, huge differences,but I have a new theory that I'm
happy to share.
So, right, some of thedifferences are that, um, older
people are used to just beingtold what to do and go do it, or
think they know what to do andjust do it.
Millennials, gen Xers, whateveris below that, they want to
(24:30):
know.
Millennials, older people, babyboomers, they're thinking about
what's in it.
For me, that's not what they'resaying.
They want to understand thewhole picture, the value, so
they understand where they fitin.
So, once that you can see thatdifference that we talked before
about the coffee maker, right,I want to understand that after
(24:50):
I roast the coffee, this is howit's going to be packaged, this
is where it's going, this is whomight use it.
Then I understand what to dowith the coffee.
Instead of you package it, youdo that and put it on the shelf
Done.
That doesn't really value thewhole person, and I'm using the
(25:14):
coffee as an example.
But I think that's a reallygood way to manage any
interaction with friends, family.
I need this because this iswhat's happening before and
after Give people a context sothey can better help you.
So I think that's the biggestdifference that I see between
the generations.
And I'm really seeing somethinginteresting lately, which is
you know a lot of people my age,boomers and whatever came after
me.
You know millennials maybe theywell, it's not millennials but a
(25:38):
lot of people complain about.
Well, they got trophies, theyhad all these trophies.
They all think they're so good.
It's actually the opposite.
The people that got so manytrophies didn't know what was
real anymore.
They didn't know if theircontribution mattered.
They didn't know if what theydid really mattered.
They didn't really know how tojudge what was important,
(26:08):
understand their role in asituation.
We ask you to do this becausethis happens.
We ask you to do that in afamily.
My daughter says it's amazinghow you know.
She says now you know she hasher own house and she lives with
a partner, how she understands,like, how to pay the bills, why
we pay them on time, all thedifferent things, why you're
nice to your super, how you dothis, things that you know.
(26:32):
I explained to her why do we dothis, why do we do that, what's
nice, how do we prepare forthings?
Because that gives her incontext what she has to do.
That's the funny part.
I think it's very funny becausewhen one generation what's the
word?
When one generation is verybusy criticizing another it's
everything we've been talkingabout.
They're pointing the finger atthem.
Well, they got trophies, theydid this.
Well, my generation is so busycollecting certificates and
(26:54):
coaching degrees and thingsafter their name to prove
they're worthy, which is exactlythe same thing as a trophy,
right?
It's the same exact thing.
I can go through a program andget a degree.
Do I really know what I'm doing?
I can play on a soccer team andget a trophy.
So I think it goes back to thatfinger pointing.
So is that your entire defenseabout why you can't work with
(27:16):
someone?
For me, that's not someone Iwant to work with.
That's not someone who'sinvested in my growth and
actually showing me what I mightnot see.
That was a long answer, but didthat make sense?
A hundred?
Speaker 5 (27:27):
percent.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (27:28):
So do you feel like that that's a common problem
with kind of more, because it ismuch easier just human nature
to want to blame others foreverything and have a more of a
victim mentality all the time.
Do you feel that that's aproblem in a lot of the cases
you see?
Speaker 4 (27:41):
You know, victim mentality is something really,
really different.
I think you have to really beable to separate it out from
laziness, because I think theyshow up the same way and I think
that, because of everythingthat's happening in the world,
you know, people have become alittle lazy, right?
I don't know if it's worthhaving this job, I don't know if
(28:01):
it's worth driving to that job,I don't know if this is going
to yield me enough money, andpeople have learned to sit back
and wait.
Now I work with entrepreneurswho are anything but lazy
anything but lazy and in theentrepreneurial world, that is
the thing.
They have to see the entirepicture.
They have to know, you knowwhat my funding might be, what
(28:23):
the idea, who else is out there?
Who are my champions, whoaren't?
So I think that if you cantease out the laziness, there
are a lot of victims out there.
There are people who have thatlearned behavior.
It's never going to work for meanyway, or you know I can do it
.
But I really think it's aboutinvesting in someone and not
worrying about where they comefrom, but telling them what the
(28:45):
expectation is and asking themto rise to the occasion, even in
personal issues.
Right, you know, with our ownchildren being able to say, you
know, we're having a big crowdfor Thanksgiving this year.
This is how I really need youto support me.
And my daughter will say to mewell, ma, I can't do that
(29:06):
because this, and I'm like, well, what can you do for me?
So, having the conversationinstead of you know saying do
this, do that, and barking atthem then they don't do it, you
get into it.
I mean, that's kind of gardenvariety, but you know what I'm
saying?
It's really a much bigger issueabout honoring the other person
.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
What I'm hearing, eileen, is that everybody
running a company should have asocial work degree.
Yes, Some sort of therapydegree, because I think it would
make everything just so much.
Speaker 4 (29:33):
Well, funny, you should say that If any of you
are Star Trek fans, what we knowabout Star Trek is Steve Jobs,
who really, you know, createdthe phone that he credits to
Star Trek.
The computer Alexa's going totalk if I talk to her.
You know, alexa play this andall this AI.
In the second generation ofStar Trek, next Generation,
(29:56):
there are three seats on thebridge that runs the company or
the ship.
It's not just the captain, it'sthe captain, his number two,
who's always operationalizingand helping him to think through
, and the counselor, just whatyou just said, because our
emotions are so important in howwe help others and help
(30:16):
ourselves and how we cancontribute, so important.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
It's so important it really is, and I think even more
in this day and age, because Ithink there's more of a
realization nowadays that peoplework differently.
Just like kids learndifferently in school, people
work differently.
We all can only work from ourown perspectives too, and, I
think, trying to gel that.
And I also feel that on teams,for the most part, everybody is
(30:41):
in competition with each othertoo, and that's very hard
because you know you have towork together as a team, but you
also want to be the best on theteam too, and it's very hard to
manage all of that, and veryhard for somebody who's leading
that team if they're not wellversed in you know human
behavior and therapy andcounseling how to do that the
(31:02):
right way without affecting theteam in some way.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Yeah, I'm really amazed by what usually the four
of you do.
I've listened to quite a few ofyour podcasts and I love how
one takes the lead and youfollow up.
I mean you are really modelingthat incredible partnership and
team behavior of.
Here's my strength, here's yourstrength, and how do we all
grow together stronger insteadof, you know, a jockeying for
(31:29):
position?
And I think that when you'reout there doing it in the world,
hopefully people see it andthey learn how to do it.
But you're right, you know,being a member of a team I mean
everybody that's in arelationship knows it's hard
work.
But the first relationship wehave to be honest about is the
one with ourselves.
Who are?
Are we really?
How do we show up?
And let's face it, you knowpeople say to me so what's the
(31:51):
chance that I'm going to beannoyed by my lover, my
boyfriend, my mother, myneighbor, my coworker?
And I say a hundred percent andthey look at me and say you
can't say that.
I'm like no, I pretty muchthink I can.
You know, look at any newspaper.
Someone is going to annoy you,and not from what you think
usually.
So how we think about whattriggers us, trigger not being a
(32:13):
bad word.
It's not someone holding a gunto your head.
It's about a trigger, is astart of a reaction.
So I always like to say ourreactions speak louder than our
actions, because we come inplanning to do one thing and
then the birthday cake isn't theright color or, you know, the
table is set up wrong and we cango on something.
(32:34):
Does it really matter whatcolor the birthday cake is Right
?
But sometimes it does.
But you know what I'm saying.
But really in that moment it'sthe long run and we can go down
a road like a bullet.
That's why it's called atrigger.
It starts a reaction.
So the more that we can own ourown behavior and know who we
are and manage our annoying self, the better we can get along
(32:56):
with other people and help themto enjoy the day and have fun
and want to work with us andshow up.
And that's the goal right.
We're part of this human racefor a reason Absolutely.
Speaker 5 (33:06):
You made a good point .
Obviously, we can all beannoying, like laugh a little
more.
We can all be annoying, andthere's always annoying people.
With all the things you'veworked with, what would you say
are probably the top threecharacter traits or behaviors
that you feel like people needto work on to be less annoying?
Speaker 4 (33:25):
So one is over-talking.
I am so guilty of that right,you have such, you know, you
gotta say it, you gotta say it,you gotta say it.
So people over-talk and that isincredibly annoying.
I think the second behavior ispeople don't what we were
talking about before.
They don't explain themselves.
They say because I'm the mother, because that's the way I said
(33:48):
it, because that's the way Iwant it.
They don't actually even with asentence say I'll explain it to
you later.
Or oh, I'm thinking thisbecause last time I did it.
That way they don't spend thetime to tell someone what
they're thinking.
So I think a little bit ofinformation is really important.
And then I think the other oneis very personal.
(34:09):
I call them historicalhysterical triggers.
There's something that maybe itcomes from your mother or your
grandmother or your next doorneighbor, an old babysitter,
that triggers you and I can'tsay what that is.
But that's why it's all aboutlike individuals, because
something you know, the sameperson.
We've all done this right.
(34:30):
We get a text from a friend andwe send it to another friend
and say should I be mad aboutthis?
What do you think of this?
And they're like oh no, there'snothing wrong with it, and
meanwhile you were like I can't.
What are they saying that?
How dare they?
How dare they?
So that's your personalhistorical hysterical trigger,
your personal historicalhysterical trigger.
So that's why it's so importantto know ourselves.
And the point is so, I can'ttell you what it is, but I can
(34:51):
tell you how it shows up.
Right, we show up nasty.
We show up disinterested.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
We show up angry, we say things that give us the
cringe factor.
When I do couples therapy imagotherapy I know you're probably
familiar with that but imagotherapy is, you know, you're an
image and so that things thathave happened in your past you
bring into your present.
So if you had a controllingfather who called you a liar a
lot, then when you get caught aliar, then suddenly that's your
trigger.
That's like, oh my gosh, thisis the end of the world and it's
(35:19):
not.
You know.
You can't kind of overcome that.
So it's just little things thattrigger us that we're not aware
of, that have happened eitherin the past or like a big event
in our lives that we need to beaware of moving forward so that
if that happens it's not thatperson.
You know.
If someone's been cheated onand we have trust issues, it's
like, well, the new person isnot that person.
But it's hard, you know, tokind of move forward in that way
(35:40):
.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
Yeah, and I think that is so deep and that is, I
think, the best kind of work wecan do for ourselves and for
others, because it's it's it's,you know, at this point, it's
only us that's stoppingourselves from from being able
to overcome that Right,especially if it's in the past,
it's a behavior that we've taken.
(36:01):
I'm writing a second book nowand we're searching for a title
that we've taken.
I'm writing a second book nowand we're searching for a title,
but it's really this one ismanaging, annoying people.
So how do you stay calm wheneverybody around you is I need
this, I need that, and they'redriving you crazy?
And this book is really about.
How do I see my own patterns?
How do I see what I do time andtime again?
I'm someone that you know I.
(36:24):
I grew up in a house with a lotof scarcity, so I'm someone that
you know I, uh, I grew up in ahouse with a lot of scarcity, so
I'm someone that you know.
Every scrap of food, every pod,current pod, everything has to
be saved and accounted for and Ihave to know where it is.
And, um, my, uh, you know my,my daughter, I can drive her
crazy with it.
So how did I learn to let gowhen the delivery Chinese food
(36:47):
comes and they have all thoseleftover chopsticks and mustards
and so on.
So you know, I had to learn tosay in our house oh honey, where
do you want these?
We must have had a drawer, oneof the biggest drawers in the
kitchen, filled with all of thatdelivery stuff that you don't
know what to do with.
If I can't throw it out, I needit.
I come from scarcity.
I won't forget it.
I'm in my daughter's kitchen andI could tell she probably
practiced it in therapy.
(37:07):
I'm like oh, where do you wantthe chopsticks?
She goes ma I don't keep them.
And I said okay and put them inthe garbage.
And she looked at me and she'slike who are you?
What have you done with my life?
And those are the stories thatI'm trying to get to now,
because who would think thatthrowing?
When she said, ma, I don't keepthose.
(37:27):
And I didn't talk her intosaving those chopsticks and why
she needs them, I said okay andthrew them out, that that would
bring our relationship and ourtrust to another level.
That she would say, wow, you'rereally working on yourself.
That has driven me crazy aboutyou, you're, you know my entire
life, so I think that it'sreally important to look at it
and, like you just said, it'ssometimes very little things
(37:49):
that we grew up with, like thestory I was giving about washing
out a Ziploc bag that reallycan make a difference in how we
relate to others and, honestly,in how we spend our time and how
we spend our time.
Instead of rushing around andmaking everything perfect, we
have more time for creativity,to get on the floor and play
with our children, to go visitour mothers, to help someone out
(38:10):
.
So all these kind of littleways we get stuck.
They don't only annoy otherpeople, they kind of take away
from ourselves.
We annoy ourselves, and that'swhat I'm really invested in now
thinking about how you findthose subtle patterns of your
life, no matter where they camefrom.
No matter where they came from100%.
Amazing.
Speaker 5 (38:30):
I think that's what we've always talked about is
just growth.
Throughout our life is reallyevolving, and introspection and
trying to be better, because wecan always be better.
Every one of us can always bebetter.
So I think it's great and Ilove how what you've said is
really relatable to just work,life, everything, and so I think
it's awesome.
And but tell us the name ofyour book again, because I I
want to order it as soon as weend tonight so thank you, it's
(38:54):
on.
Speaker 4 (38:55):
It's on amazon.
It's managing annoying people.
It's got a bright oh here,funny, oh you would.
It's a podcast but has a brightorange cover Managing Lying
People and you know some of thebook has so right on Amazon.
So it has my favorite acronymTEAM Together.
Everyone Annoys Me.
Speaker 5 (39:18):
I love that that's awesome.
I love those.
I really, really appreciate youcoming and I have to tell you
Ashley sent a text while we weredoing this saying that she is
really sorry.
She had this emergency with herair conditioning and she was so
sad.
I love for sure, and me Same.
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
Thank you, ladies for not letting me annoy you, no,
you did not, not at all.
Speaker 5 (39:50):
You were wonderful.
Keep doing what you're doing.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, have a great night.
Thank you, bye-bye.
She was awesome.
Oh, that was so good.
Yes, makes a lot of sense thoughright it does looking at your
own behavior and how you impactother people and I was.
I was very annoying thismorning with my husband and
(40:10):
saying that as we were doinglike it was really annoying
earlier, he threw my routine offbecause I always let the dogs
out.
He let the dogs out like aheadof time and then I hadn't taken
the puppy.
I've just messed up the routineand I was.
I was very frustrated.
I'm like that was so stupid tolike act a little annoyed over
that.
It's just a dumb thing.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
It happens, yeah, hate on the structure is
changing yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
I just it's like you were expected to go this way and
then it goes that way, and then, like people are like, oh, no,
it needs to go the other way,yeah, but I do think that's true
.
Like things from our past comeup right, like in therapy, I see
all the time people, thingsfrom their past come up and if
they're triggered in the hereand now, it's just like, oh, I
don't trust anybody or I don't,like you, know anything like
this.
It's just different.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
I love how she wasn't like placing blame on it.
Speaker 5 (40:56):
No.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
You know that kind of way, like that, even when you
brought up the fact of differentgenerations and stuff that you
can see, because I always feelthat when I'm teaching, like
because I have a huge range,it's like you have a huge range
of people you see, yes, so, butI get to see the way that they
work and how they, like, learnsomething.
And everyone's alwayscomplaining.
Older generations are alwayscomplaining about the younger
ones and vice versa.
(41:18):
I was like these kids areamazing.
Yeah, they are With what theydeal with.
We didn't have to deal withwhat they deal with, like, their
lives are so different.
They amaze me what they can letroll off their backs.
Scott and I get really upsetabout things you know that are
posted or said about us.
You know, and the kids just go.
(41:38):
Why do you care?
Speaker 3 (41:41):
Who cares right?
What are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (41:42):
That's said about people every day.
Get over it.
It's just like, yeah, it's sofunny.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
I think the thing that I loved about her, too, is
that she was like I was theannoying person, like it's not
coming back.
Oh, everyone was annoying me.
When I was like a boss orwhatever she's like, I was the
annoying person.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
I was like oh, that makes sense.
I also wish people sometimesthat annoy would turn around and
go listen.
That's really annoying.
But then my feelings would beso hurt.
Oh yeah, I see I'd be like, ohGod.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
Okay, that makes sense.
Yes, I would too.
I'd be like, yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
I understand.
I guess it's all introspection.
I mean it really is.
It's always easier to blamesomeone else for everything, but
like, okay, what part did Ihave in that?
You know, Of course it's likebe a problem solver.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Just be a decent human.
Like we can all be annoying,but just be a decent human.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
You know, yeah, don't , don't intentionally meet the
cause harm.
Yes.
Speaker 5 (42:38):
Be decently annoying.
When, in doubt, shut your mouth.
Oh, that's it.
Cheers to that, here we go.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Thank you for joining the ladies of the Middle
Age-ish podcast as they journeythrough the ups and downs of
this not young but definitelynot old season of life.
To hear past episodes or makesuggestions for future episodes,
visit www.
Middleageishcom.
That's www.
Wwwmiddleageishcom.
That's wwwmiddleageishcom.
(43:08):
You can follow along on socialmedia at Middle Age-ish Also, if
you have a moment, to leave areview, rate and subscribe.
That helps others find the showand we greatly appreciate it.
Once again, thank you so muchfor joining us and we'll catch
you in the next episode of theMiddle Age-ish Podcast.
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