April 24, 2024 • 40 mins
When the threads of our lives unravel, it's the power of human connection that weaves them back together, stronger and more vibrant than before. Emer Halpenny's story, which we're honored to share with you, embodies this truth. Her tale of love, loss, and the resilience of the human spirit begins with a decision that could shatter a heart - the decision to place her baby boy for adoption in 1988. Her journey didn't end there; rather, it continued through silent years that eventually blossomed into healing, and a narrative that she bravely unfolds with us. Emer's courage to voice her past not only served as her catharsis but paved the way for an unexpected reconnection with her son, reinforcing the unbreakable bond of family.
Our conversation with Emer turns the pages of her life, revealing the complexities of a reunion decades in the making. The candid recount of her son reaching out, the role her daughters played in bridging their communication, and the gradual transition from tentative exchanges to regular, comfortable interactions, offers a heartfelt look into the delicate dance of rebuilding relationships. Emer's experience is a testament to the idea that our choices do not define us; rather, it's how we grow from them and the love we share that truly shapes our legacy.
Finally, we reflect upon the societal and familial tapestries that backdrop stories like Emer's. We recognize the courage required to face and share such personal narratives. Emer's openness provides a guiding light for anyone traversing the path of adoption and reunion, especially in an era where social media can bridge the divides of time and distance. Join us and our incredible guest, Emer Halpenny, as we celebrate the joyous revelations of life coming full circle and the remarkable endurance of love through the trials of time.
https://www.emerhalpenny.com/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to the Middle Age-ish Podcast.
Authentically andunapologetically, keeping it
real, discussing all thingsMiddle Age-ish, a time when
metabolism slows and confidencegrows.
Join fashion and fitnessentrepreneur Ashley Budosky,
former Celtic woman and founderof the Lisa Kelly Voice Academy.
Lisa Kelly, licensedpsychologist and mental health
(00:24):
expert, dr Pam Wright and highlysought after cosmetic injector
and board certified nursepractitioner, tricia Kennedy,
roman.
Join your hosts on the journeyof middle age-ish.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Hello everyone, and welcome back to another edition
of Middle Age-ish.
We're so excited to be heretoday.
I'm your host, lisa Kelly, andI'm joined here with Ashley
Bedosky, tricia Kennedy-Romanand Dr Pam Wright, and I'm super
excited about our guest today.
Not only is she a fellow Irishwoman, which I'm always like
proudly flying the flag, but Iactually know this incredible
(01:01):
woman.
This is Eimear Halpenny, andEimear is a writer and a
director from Dublin and many,many, many years ago I'm not
even going to say how many yearsago it- was.
Like five, yeah, five.
When I was like 19, I actuallygot to work with Eimear and
she's fabulous.
She's just a fabulous womanwith a really precious soul and
(01:23):
sometimes you just connect withpeople and I always felt a
connection to Eimear and herwonderful husband, jeff, so she
was always incredible.
So she's, as I said, she's awriter and a director, so her
Facebook posts are always reallyfunny and always really
eloquently written and I watchedthroughout COVID as she was
trying to wrangle chickens inher backyard in Dublin.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
I want to see that.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
It's hilarious and trying to do it like in the
middle of Dublin city centre isjust pretty, Although she
probably she knows she doesn'tlive in the middle of Dublin
city centre, but you guys wouldconsider it.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
We would consider it in the middle.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
They're all country folk here.
But a couple of months ago Icame across a really beautiful
post that Emer had put out thereand there's.
It was something that I didn'tknow about her and I just felt
it was a beautiful story andjust something that I think is
probably so relatable to peopleand especially, you know, irish
(02:16):
people and we don't often sharestories like this and I just
thought that this was a reallyhuman, beautiful story to tell.
So I was going to give it aproper introduction, eimear.
But I felt it was really human,beautiful story to tell.
So I was going to give it aproper introduction, eimear.
But I felt it was kind of yourstory to tell and we'd be really
honoured if you'd share yourstory with us.
Speaker 5 (02:32):
Well, thank you very much.
That was a lovely introductionand I launched straight in in
1988.
I gave a baby boy up foradoption and, um, that sort of
started, uh uh, my path, if youlike, and, um, it was very
difficult and it was kept veryquiet for a while and then,
(02:55):
after a few years, I uh began totell people my story and just,
uh, just kind of, if it came up,you know, I would tell people
my story and then, as time wentdown, I kind of wanted to not
sweep it under the carpet, Iwanted to talk about it more and
I suppose I was kind ofexpressing myself a lot more
(03:18):
through my writing and I justbegan to write.
I just began to write articlesfor magazines or you know, if I
was interviewed because of myother business, which was a
drama school and theaterdirector, and if it came up, I
(03:53):
just spoke, called it the powerof decision, because making the
decision was obviously probablythe most difficult decision I
ever made in my life, and, um,everybody else that was on the
um TEDx talk with me seemed tohave written a book, and I
remember thinking, well, Isuppose I really should write a
(04:14):
book.
So I started writing them.
I started writing my story.
Then, um, and I just keptchanging it and I kept trying to
perfect on it and there wasalways a reason why I never sent
it off to anyone.
And then then, over lockdown, Ithought this would be a good
opportunity to really edit thebook and, you know, kind of get
(04:40):
it done and get it sent to apublisher and get myself an
agent.
And what actually happened?
I suppose because during thelockdown, during COVID and we
all had so much time I actuallyended up inadvertently
uncovering and delving into thetrauma of having lost a baby,
(05:04):
and I didn't know that that waswhat I was doing, but in fact
that's what I was doing.
So the book got completelyrewritten and it was, it was
very raw, very therapeutic, butthe work was really, really.
I mean, I went to a very darkplace, facing up to, you know,
(05:27):
like I say, the trauma and painand the, the feelings that I had
suppressed for so long.
Because over the years I wouldlook back and I would say you
know, did I make a mistake?
Do I feel guilty?
You know, did I make a mistake?
Do I feel guilty?
And I'd look at everything thatI had, the reasons that I had
(05:47):
given him up for adoption andthe way my life had turned out,
and I just couldn't I couldn'tregret it.
I would say you know, if I wasto go back in time, I would do
the same thing, yeah, eventhough it meant, you know, a
lifetime of pain.
So because of that, I kind ofdidn't think I had any internal
work to do, but obviously I hada huge amount of internal work
(06:09):
to do, and so that was the workthat I did over COVID and then,
kind of coming out of that, Ijust kept rewriting it,
rewriting it, so it wasn't soraw, um, and I decided I was
going to, um, self-publish thebook and, um, I literally had
(06:30):
everything set up toself-publish and I was going to
kind of do it over the weekend.
And I was sitting and work onthe uh Wednesday 29th of
November last 2023, and I wasflicking through, uh, my
messages on Instagram and, um,suddenly I got a message from
(06:51):
somebody saying that he was myson and he was sorry to contact
me that way, um, and he had allof the information, um, that he
should have had as somebody I'dgiven up for adoption in 1988.
My first thought was why wouldsomebody do this to me.
First of all, how did somebodyget this information and why
(07:15):
would they do this to me?
And I was texting my husbandand I just didn't believe it
because it was almost 36 yearsand I had all but given up hope.
Yeah, I had gone beyond thepoint of even daydreaming and
even entertaining that anythinglike that would happen.
(07:37):
And then I went on to hisInstagram page and I had a look
at the photos of him and I knewit was him, so I catapulted into
shock immediately and that wasthat was when the story changed,
get the full U-turn.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
That's incredible.
I was only thinking about thatthis morning when I was thinking
about talking to you today andI was like gosh, I wonder if you
know if I didn't see my kidsfor a really long time.
I wonder if you do, especiallywhen you change so much from
kids to adults Like do you know,would you know that?
But I know it was them.
It's such a hard concept foranyone to try and wrap their
(08:20):
head around try and wrap theirhead around.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
Well, he was um, so he was about maybe three months
when I last saw him.
Um, and the the uh setup that Ihad when he was adopted was
that, uh, I would be sent aphoto every year and get a
little update on how he wasdoing, and so that was fine
until he was a I think aboutfive, and at the time I knew his
family lived in Dublin and Ijust was looking in baby buggies
(08:59):
everywhere I went I was lookingout to see because, you know, I
have no um, I've no brothers,but I've only sisters.
But, uh, he was beginning tolook like my cousins.
So I knew I would kind ofrecognize him and, um, so I
stopped, I made the decision tostop getting the photos because
(09:19):
I just was torturing myself.
Right then I knew his familymoved down to Kerry and that was
where he was brought up.
So when he was 21, I just wantedto know how he was doing and I
got in touch with the agency andI asked for a photo and I got
(09:41):
the photo you know of when hewas like 20, 21.
So the photo that I saw on hisInstagram even though he is now
36, was him talking about hisjourney, having gone to Canada
where he now lives, and he wentwhen he was 26.
(10:02):
So that was kind of like therewas only a couple of years
between the two photos.
So I saw that photo and I justwent oh my god, it's him, and it
was incredibly surreal oh, mygoodness, incredibly and 19 1988
, was it in Dublin.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
I mean, it was a very different time in Dublin as
well, like I remember being inschool and a girl and it would
have.
I mean, it was a very differenttime in Dublin as well, like I
remember being in school and agirl and it would have been.
I was trying to think aboutthat today.
It would have been around thesame age and she was in high
school with.
I was still in primary schoolat the time, but she was in
secondary school and I remembershe was like sent away down the
country and then she came backwith a baby.
Now she actually did keep herson, but it was like it was so
(10:44):
scandalous at the time and evenas a child I knew that it was.
It was.
Speaker 5 (10:49):
They were making it out to be scandalous as well and
you're like it was so hard inthose days yeah, there was a
different, a completelydifferent way of viewing
particularly young girls and butyou know it was at the time a
lot of, uh, girls were beginningto keep their babies and it was
(11:10):
, you know, I I always thinkthat they were the ones that
kind of paved the way.
They were very defiant.
We were still very um, you know, very cath Catholic country and
very, you know, very much, eventhough we were a little bit
more defined.
Like I say, we were still kindof under the thumb of the church
(11:33):
and our parents would have beenunder that pressure and you
know, I know, you know, in mycase, my parents, it wasn't so
much that, but it was just kindof thinking about my future and
I think that's why they gave me,you know, the option of
adoption.
So I probably was a little bitdifferent in that.
(11:54):
You know anybody around thearea here that did get pregnant
and of course, girls weregetting pregnant because nobody
was using contraceptive yeahright, contraceptive, nobody
meant to get pregnant you know,we were all like oh, you know um
you were a kid anyway, like you, you know.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
You were still a child yourself yeah, well, I was
.
Speaker 5 (12:16):
You know, I was 19 when I got pregnant, which you
know is not like very young.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
I guess to me.
I'm 52, I'm still thinking 19,is it still a baby?
Speaker 5 (12:26):
I was a baby at 19, I know, I know, and I was, I mean
, I was really scared, I, Ireally I really was well, you
grow up very quickly.
But I just, I mean, I did, Iweighed up everything, I, the
baby, went into foster careafter I had him in the hospital
(12:47):
with me for four days and thenhe went into, he went to a
foster family, and the ideabeing that I would be able to
kind of just get my headtogether and make a kind of a
clear decision, and it wassupposed to be for six weeks and
it was kind of more like nineor 10 weeks, and then I decided
that I would keep them and I hadweighed everything up and made
(13:10):
that decision and told everybody, told my social worker, told my
parents, my sisters, and toldthe foster mother, um, a woman
called adine, and uh, I, I wentto the house, sort of I used to
go and visit him and, um, I wentkind of the last time and we,
(13:31):
you know, it was all very joyousand um, and then I, I walked
into the room where he was and Ijust knew that I was not making
the right decision and it was areally that's the last time I
saw him.
I, you know, I kind of put himback down in his cot and I knew
(13:53):
that I wasn't actually going toto keep them.
So, heartbreaking it was.
It was like something that waskind of bigger than me that said
you know, what do you thinkyou're doing?
Speaker 4 (14:09):
You know I think that's the ultimate mother's
love is when you have to weighthe options of what's best for
the child in that moment and notweigh what you think is best
for you.
Speaker 5 (14:22):
Yeah, yeah, I mean a hundred percent, and I would
have considered myself I wouldhave been a very sort of a
wayward teen, I suppose, andnever really thought you know
about the full picture, neverreally thought you know about
the full picture.
And suddenly here I was, um,having to think about, uh, you
(14:42):
know, a person that I loved morethan myself, right, and um,
yeah, it was, yeah, it wasmassive, was the biggest thing
that ever happened to me, youknow so once you realized that
that was him, it was actuallyhim.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
What happened from there?
Speaker 5 (15:00):
um, yeah, well, I was in work first of all, so I no
longer um, work in the theater.
I kind of, um, kind of fellinto a few different things and
and then after, uh, covid and afew other things that happened,
I just said I just want to goand get a job with the salaries.
So, um, beat down doors, right,and so I work as a a clerk in a
(15:24):
hospital and, um, I was on mylunch and there was a nurse was
in the canteen with me and I, Ikind of just went into shock,
like I, I kind of had troublebreathing and gasping, and it
wasn't really crying, it wasmore like gasping.
And um, yeah, so everybody inwork knew it straight, but they
(15:46):
all knew that I was about topublish this book, everybody
knew my story.
Like I say, I've never been,I've never hidden my story, but
um, I I've.
You know, I sort of said, well,like my son, it's, my son has
contacted me.
And then I was saying, but it'sgood, even though I was, I was
crying, I was, I didn't knowwhether it was coming or going.
And um, I, uh, I went outside,I phoned my husband and he said
(16:12):
he'd come and get me, but Icouldn't speak, I'd lost, I'd
lost the ability to speak, andhe was saying, like, where are
you?
And I was like, well, I'mworking, you know?
Uh.
So anyway, he directed me, toldme where to go, got into the
car and, just as it happened, um, my two daughters, I have my
two daughters, uh are, they're22 and 24 and they both happen
(16:35):
to be home, and um, so it's justthe four of us and uh, I, you
know we were talking about it,and um, I hadn't at this stage,
I hadn't, I hadn't answered himback or hadn't, um hadn't really
fully read the message, evenproperly.
Um, so the girls um got a lotof information about him.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
They did like within you know, five minutes, yeah,
exactly.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Check out his Tinder.
Speaker 5 (17:09):
Yeah, so.
So they were saying you know he, he tried to contact you two
days ago were saying you know he, he tried to contact you two
days ago, um.
So what had happened from hispoint of view was that he had,
um, gotten curious and uh, gotgot some information from
adoption ireland.
Uh, it had arrived on the themonday.
(17:30):
So the wednesday was the daythat I that this all happened to
me, but on the monday he gothis information from Adoption
Ireland and had been thinking,oh, you know, I'll just sit on
this and see what I'm going todo, I'll decide.
You know, um.
But when he got my name and hegoogled my name and um, the
(17:51):
internet lit up with me talkingabout him, basically, and um, so
sweet, you know.
So he just said she's been soopen, I have to contact her
straight away.
So he sent me a reallybeautiful message on Facebook,
um, which I didn't see becauseI'm not really on Facebook all
that much, and um.
So it was two days later and hethen sent me a message on
(18:14):
Instagram, which was the one Isaw.
And so we were, we were at home, my husband and my daughters
and myself.
I kind of said, god, this istwo days ago that he texted me
first and you know, but I can't,actually I can't string my
thoughts together.
So my daughters began to texthim on my phone and they were,
(18:41):
they were texting each other andthey were just saying, look,
eimear is in shock and she willtalk later, but at the moment
she just wanted to kind of sayshe's thrilled that you got in
touch and it was just so lovelybecause you know, like for all
of those years, years, I had nopersonality to attach to the
baby that I lost, right, andsuddenly here was this grown man
(19:06):
who was saying things like Ican't believe I'm talking to my
sisters, this is amazing, um.
And he was saying, you know,give him a hug from me.
And had said things in his inhis initial message to say I
(19:26):
know why you, I know why yougave me up and you did it for me
, and you did it because youlove me and thank you and I've
had a great life.
And you know, I thought theywere very kind things for him to
have said to me and you know,so I kind of straight away
warmed to the person that he wasbecause you don't know, like
you, you know over the years.
(19:47):
You think, what if he does getin touch?
Or what if it's not compatible?
And what if you know?
What if he hates me or hasn'tforgiven me, or um, so it was
none of those things and I, I uh, began to text him.
Then later on the day, when Ihad kind of, you know, was able
to form a thought again and wewere texting for the for the
(20:09):
whole night and um, it was justso lovely and like that was
November, that was the last dayof November.
So we are in touch a lot andwe've had a few video calls,
like our video calls for an hourand a half, you know, just,
it's getting quite normal now.
Like you know, we're kind oflike that's what I was going to
(20:31):
ask Is it like those?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Is it that it feels really natural, or was there
like hesitation?
Speaker 5 (20:41):
there was certainly hesitation from my point of view
, in that I was terrified I'dmake a mistake.
Yeah, of course I was like, ohmy god, I've been so lucky that
he's he's this kind of personand that he wants to reach out.
And what if I trip up?
What if he talks to me and hegoes?
Maybe, maybe not?
And he picked up on that.
You know our first video callhe said.
(21:03):
By the way, he said you know,I'm not going anywhere.
I want you to be yourself.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Did he always know he was adopted?
Speaker 5 (21:13):
He did, but he didn't have really any information.
He wouldn't have known that Iwas.
You know that I was interestedin him or anything like that.
And he said it wasn't reallysomething that they spoke about.
It wasn't an issue for him.
He just kind of thought oh, Isuppose my mom didn't want me,
(21:34):
but it didn't really bother him.
My mum didn't want me, but itdidn't really bother him.
He had a um, you know, a verysupportive and loving family and
um, he was very happy growingup, which is what I wanted to
hear, right, you?
know it was kind of weird thatthey said that to him.
I didn't want to hear that, oh,he had suffered all those years
, because then I'd feel like,yeah, I didn't make a mistake,
yeah, so, um, it was, it wasgood to hear that.
(21:57):
But um, yeah, just, um, just,and you know, really special to
be able to kind of just go onsocial media and see, you know
his family and see him and hiswife and his children and, um,
my god, I know that was probablythe hardest pill to swallow.
(22:23):
Actually, you know what I wouldhave said that it would be.
I would have always said thatI'd be saying to my daughters
you know, if you have kids,they're not to call me granny.
It didn't bother me at all.
I'm going around saying to thedog oh, would granny give you a
treat?
You know?
Um, yeah, yeah.
So that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
It's such a great story so you haven't met him yet
.
You haven't actually physicallymet him.
Speaker 5 (22:48):
Yes, no, so he lives in um kind of done out, as I
said, and uh like I would havehopped on a plane the next day
without a doubt.
But so we both had agreed wewanted to meet sooner rather
than later, but he's coming overin June, so so we're going to
(23:10):
meet early June.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
Oh my gosh, we have to have a follow up.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
We do have to have you been in contact with, like
his adopted family no, I have nocontact with them, okay, so I
didn't meet them.
I met them initially.
I met them once I had made thedecision, uh, you know, to go
ahead with the adoption, andthey had the agency or the
(23:40):
social workers had chosen afamily.
We had a meeting and it wasvery emotional, obviously, and,
you know, I felt better after,like I kind of felt relieved
because I liked them right, Itrusted them, you know, um, and
(24:01):
then that was the last, that wasthe last that I ever saw or
heard of of them.
Um, I mean, it's not for thewant, of you know, stalking
Facebook and wondering, like Ididn't have surnames or first
name even I didn't have anything, you know, wow, that's such a
story
Speaker 6 (24:18):
so did you feel like a lot of the healing happened
when you met him and talked tohim and knew that he had been
okay, that everything was good,he did make the right decision?
Do you feel like a lot of thetrauma that you'd experienced
had been healed with that?
Speaker 5 (24:34):
yeah, I mean it's interesting because I kind of
went through the trauma to the,to the point of healing, to the
point of um accepting that I had, uh, you know, suffered a
trauma from having lost a child,um, and there my story ended
and I kind of felt that I hadthis is.
(24:56):
This is where it is the end ofthe road for me, so I have to
get on with this.
So I had, I feel that I hadkind of done a huge amount of
internal work and I have somefriends, or three friends who
are psychotherapists, who arekind of saying you really
shouldn't have done that work onyour own.
And I was saying, well, Ididn't actually know that's what
(25:18):
I was doing actually, infairness.
And I was saying, well, Ididn't actually know that's what
I was doing actually, infairness.
But when I, when I, when I methim, it was like I don't think
it would have been the same hadI not done that work, right, you
know.
So it's like I don't this, thisis what I think.
I feel like I moved stagnantenergy and it brought him to me
(25:45):
in a way.
You know, that's kind of how Ifeel.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
And that help wouldn't have been around when
you were 19 anyway.
I mean, it wouldn't have evenbeen.
I'm sure nobody even suggestedyou go and speak to a therapist
when you were 19.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
Well, I did have a social worker who was um, you
know, it was helpful to talk toher about the things.
But, yeah, I mean definitely,if I had known what I know now,
then, yes, I would have gone theexcavation, as I call it a lot
earlier.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yeah, definitely it was a different, completely
different Ireland in those days.
Speaker 5 (26:27):
And the funny thing about the book that has, kind of
, I was writing another book,unpublished still, and a novel
completely unrelated, and Icouldn't move forward with it
until I went back and wrote thebook about my story, about my
adoption story, and I reallyfelt that creatively I was very,
(26:48):
um, very stuck and I justneeded to get this book written
and out of the way.
And that was how it started andit kind of obviously turned
into so many different things.
So I've done nothing with itbecause I think until I meet him
I'm not going to make adecision.
And, like, he knows about thebook and he's very laid back and
(27:11):
you know, whatever I feel Iwant to do with it he's okay
with and um, I've even said tohim gosh, maybe it could be a
like a um, uh, like a biopic orsomething like that.
You know um yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure, so and is he
(27:34):
creative?
Speaker 2 (27:34):
so I don't know.
Does he have the same creativebrain?
Speaker 5 (27:37):
um, I, I, I was delighted that he.
I was saying, oh my gosh, hewrites really well His posts on
Instagram.
You know I'm going.
Oh, it's great that his grammaris really good.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
He knows where to put the apostrophe Exactly.
Speaker 5 (27:55):
And I was like, oh no , yeah, that's great.
He wouldn't consider himselfcreative, but he's actually
quite funny.
He has a business with his wife, so the way he would be in some
of those posts.
He's quite funny and veryengaging, but kind of just
genuine, very genuine, very kind, just a great person I it's
(28:22):
really proud.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
That's amazing.
Ah, sure, look.
Wow, what a gorgeous story.
That's like a tragic story witha beautiful ending.
I'm so excited for you.
I'm so excited you get to meethim so I have a question for you
.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
So, as a psychologist , it comes up a lot, both from
parents or mothers who havegiven up you know a child, and
also from people who are adoptedand say like I wonder if I
should like search.
I mean, this comes up all thetime in counseling and now
there's 23andMe where people canfind you know relatives and
things like that through ourancestrycom.
So for you, would you give anyI don't know advice, feedback,
(28:58):
any thoughts about how it's liketo be on?
I guess either end and havesomeone reach out.
Speaker 5 (29:06):
Um, well, first of all I'd say, um, I mean, every
case is different, uh, and youjust don't know how somebody is
going to be.
I think both of us areextraordinarily lucky.
He didn't know what he wasgetting into when he contacted
me and then he has this surpriseof gosh.
I never stopped actuallythinking about him or talking
(29:28):
about him.
So you know he knows he's he'sgoing to be gaining a new family
and everybody knows about himand everybody's going to welcome
.
There's going to be no shocksor anything like that.
And I get the, the gift of.
You know he hasn't harbored any, you know any ill will towards
me.
He's, you know, very gratefuland and has had a good life.
(29:51):
So we're both very, very lucky,although I do think he was
incredibly brave to make thatconnection first because he
didn't know what he was gettinginto.
To make that connection firstbecause he didn't know what he
was getting into and I knowthere are people who do that and
it doesn't work out for them.
But as a birth mother and I canonly speak as a birth mother I
(30:22):
mean, even if the circumstancesare such that you're not going
to connect with your child oryou know, so if there's somebody
who's looking to contact theirbirth parent and they're not
getting in touch with them orthey don't want to know it is.
You know it's not that you'renot loved or haven't been
thought about, or you know therehaven't been nights, long
nights, when you know your birthmother has not, you know, has
(30:43):
been crying herself to sleep.
And you know, and it's not justme, I did a TV program a few
years ago called AdoptionStories on, you know, national
television here and it was areally hugely popular program.
It was like the series six orsomething like that, and, um, a
(31:07):
lot of, an awful lot of, uh,birth mothers and, you know,
lost boys, if I, for want of abetter word, contacted me, um,
after it, you know, and what,just wanted to talk and wanted.
I met some of them personally.
A lot of them we just spoke onthe phone, a lot of them we just
emailed, and there were a hugeamount of birth mothers who had
(31:31):
not told the story to theirfamily.
Um, even their husbands didn'tknow and they said, you know
that they would never, theywould go to their grave and
never connect with their child,but that they, every single day,
that they, um, you know theywere thinking and carrying the
love for that child and the lossof that child.
(31:52):
So so I kind of would say topeople you know, if, if you
think that you are okay with you, know you that you, you don't
know what's going to happen.
It may be a happy story likeours, and it may not be.
But I would just kind of say topeople that take heart that
(32:12):
it's so unlikely that you werehave not been loved and thought
about every day.
Uh, you know your mothercarried you for nine months Like
she's.
You know there's a bond, yeah.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
What's literally a piece of you.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
That's incredible.
It's an incredible story.
Yeah, thank you so much forsharing it.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
You're so brave, you are.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Like unbelievable.
As I said in your intro, Ialways knew you were a beautiful
soul, but just even the way youtell this story is just so raw
and so transparent and soemotional, and I don't think any
of us are any the better forall of us.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
So you think my nose is.
I love to talk about it, yeah,and you're helping, so many
people and.
Speaker 5 (32:56):
I've always loved to talk about it, yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
And you're helping so many people and I've always
loved to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Well, I think that's what's important.
I think you touched on it there.
I mean, I know a lot of people,a lot of friends and family I
have that are adopted as well.
You know their, their momsdidn't tell anyone that they'd
had kids, so they were alwaysafraid to go back and to find
their mom or from that rejection, being so afraid to be rejected
.
You know which must beterrifying on both, on both
(33:25):
parties as the mom, as the child, I just can't even imagine.
I'm just so glad it was a happyending for you.
Speaker 6 (33:34):
I can't wait till the book comes out.
I know and again.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
I will say one more time follow up.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
I know June.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Yes, after.
Speaker 4 (33:40):
June.
After June, we would love afollow up.
Speaker 5 (33:45):
Oh, I'd love to.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
We'd love to be lovely.
Speaker 5 (33:49):
And I might have made a decision at that stage as to
what I'm going to do about thebook.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
You know, you're going to know it when you know
it.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
It could be a movie.
Yeah, yeah, you'll know whenyou're supposed to know what
you're supposed to do with it.
Thank you for staying up solate to talk to us.
I know.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
And thanks for being such an inspiration on something
that people don't talk aboutall that often, and it's just,
it's an amazing story and we'reso very happy for you.
Speaker 5 (34:21):
Thank you so much, and can I just say to the four
of you that I'm only gettinginto podcasts, but I really
enjoy your podcast and I thinkyou make it work really well.
There's four of you.
It shouldn't work, but it does.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
I know right.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Thanks so much, Emer.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
Take care Best of wishes we'll look forward to
talking to you soon.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Bye love see ya, take care.
Bye, bye, bye, bye.
Speaker 6 (34:48):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
I can't really talk.
I was just holding back tears.
I was tearing up.
Speaker 4 (34:53):
I know that was very emotional.
We all know that I don't dowell with that.
I was yeah you know.
Speaker 6 (35:00):
My favorite thing, though, was what she said at the
very end, because I do thinkthat there are some people who,
if she's married, if she hadn'ttold her husband and he
contacted her, she might notreply, and then that feels like
rejection.
So I'm crying to say it, butwhat she said about to know that
, like you, were still loved,but maybe there's a reason why
they're not reaching back outreason why they're not reaching
back out I think that'simportant for people to hear.
I think it's incredible,incredible.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
Oh, there's someone out there I can't even describe
to you that needs to hear this.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
And I can't even describe what Dublin in 19, it
sounds like she had like a superprogressive family because,
like, we still had laundries inIreland at that stage where,
like young girls went and theylived in like industrial
laundries and they had theirbabies and those babies were
taken away from them and theywere given away and they were
(35:45):
all run by the Catholic church.
They were run by the nuns, so,um, I don't think that the U?
Speaker 4 (35:50):
S was.
Well, I mean I guess I can onlyspeak for Missouri, but my town
wasn't overly progressive, Imean there, I mean there was
maybe I don't know two or threethat I can remember, but they
just went away, yeah, and no onetalked about it and it was like
a whisper, but there was noacknowledgement, there was no,
(36:13):
and again there's.
I mean I'm not, I'm notthrowing stones at all, but I do
agree that it was a differenttime and terrifying for that
person, because I think it wouldbe terrifying even now in a way
.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
I think here not in Ireland like it's pretty
standard in Ireland it's notseen, as you know, a terrible
thing anymore.
We have lots of unmarriedmothers and and it's just the
way society kind of formed.
Whereas I still feel here wherewe are, I feel like this is
Ireland in the eighties.
(36:50):
Sometimes I kind of go oh myGod.
Like you know, people will behorrified if their 19 year old
daughter got pregnant and wasn'tmarried.
I still think that would be ahuge deal here.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
I don't, I mean I don't, I don't and wasn't
married.
I still think that would be ahuge deal here.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
I don't, I mean, I don't, I don't, I don't know.
Did you see that, gosh?
It was on the news, I think itwas maybe two or three weeks ago
.
But it was all these women, Ithink, in South America, and
they were told that their babieswere died at birth.
But they were all alive andthey took them all and like they
were all, and they found outlater and there was like a
reunification of all these kidswith their moms and just they
knew immediately but theythought all this time their kids
(37:28):
were deceased and then havingthat reunion, I just can't
imagine.
Speaker 6 (37:33):
There was a special story.
I think it was in the US,though that happened with a
certain doctor's office orwhatever that would do that.
I can't remember what it wasnow, but it was like I don't
know if it was Dateline 48 hours, yeah.
Speaker 4 (37:44):
I think it was.
Speaker 6 (37:45):
Dateline.
It was really interesting.
I mean, it was horrible,because they thought they lost
their baby and then found outlater that they were alive.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
So sad I can't imagine At least social?
Speaker 3 (37:53):
media is good for something it's like for those
kinds of things.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
I often think that those dinner parties you know,
with the 23 and me there wassome very awkward conversations
at Christmas when everybody gota 23 and me set.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
Oh my gosh, I can't a thousand percent.
Speaker 6 (38:11):
And then they're like oh, no, yeah, yeah, I mean
because, like just for so manydifferent reasons, I mean you
put the DNA out there and youcan track a lot of stuff.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
So I just she's brave though she's she's.
Speaker 4 (38:28):
it's like what you said, Lisa, like her energy and
just her spirit.
She's gorgeous, she's just shereally is Like you don't even
have to see her.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
No, no, no, Just to feel.
Yeah, her warmth, yeah wordyeah, just build.
Just what an amazing human sheis so it would be fun to follow
up and find out how that Ireally would love to do that
well, I'm friends with her onfacebook, so I'll see it all and
that'll get her back.
Okay, and she will.
She'll keep her promise.
She'll be good.
I just you know.
Speaker 4 (38:55):
Talk to her again yeah, it is, you know talk to
her again.
Yeah, it is.
Yeah, you know, we always likea good ending to a story, like
that Special story.
I know Like it's always nice tojust celebrate the good endings
, yeah.
Speaker 6 (39:10):
Cheers to happy endings.
Speaker 4 (39:11):
Happy endings, happy endings yes, cheers, I just
can't.
Oh my God, oh my God.
Speaker 6 (39:18):
Did you guys feel the note?
I was, oh my.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
God, I actually think we need to keep this and like,
let it go.
I think so too.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
This is what it's like to be with us.
That was totally innocent.
We are real.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
We say happy endings and we meet it in the just the
basics.
Speaker 6 (39:36):
In the most genuine way.
Have a great night.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Have a good night basics in the most genuine way.
Thank you for joining theladies of the middle-aged
podcast as they journey throughthe ups and downs of this not
young, but definitely not oldseason of life.
To hear past episodes or makesuggestions for future episodes,
visit wwwmiddleagedcom.
Wwwmiddleageishcom.
(40:07):
That's wwwmiddleageishcom.
You can follow along on socialmedia at Middle Age-ish Also, if
you have a moment, to leave areview rate and subscribe.
That helps others find the showand we greatly appreciate it.
Once again, thank you so muchfor joining us and we'll catch
you in the next episode of theMiddle Age-ish Podcast.
Welcome to the Middle Age-ish Podcast.
Authentically andunapologetically, keeping it
real, discussing all thingsMiddle Age-ish, a time when
metabolism slows and confidencegrows.
Join fashion and fitnessentrepreneur Ashley Budosky,
former Celtic woman and founderof the Lisa Kelly Voice Academy.
Lisa Kelly, licensedpsychologist and mental health
(00:24):
expert, dr Pam Wright and highlysought after cosmetic injector
and board certified nursepractitioner, tricia Kennedy,
roman.
Join your hosts on the journeyof middle age-ish.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Hello everyone, and welcome back to another edition
of Middle Age-ish.
We're so excited to be heretoday.
I'm your host, lisa Kelly, andI'm joined here with Ashley
Bedosky, tricia Kennedy-Romanand Dr Pam Wright, and I'm super
excited about our guest today.
Not only is she a fellow Irishwoman, which I'm always like
proudly flying the flag, but Iactually know this incredible
(01:01):
woman.
This is Eimear Halpenny, andEimear is a writer and a
director from Dublin and many,many, many years ago I'm not
even going to say how many yearsago it- was.
Like five, yeah, five.
When I was like 19, I actuallygot to work with Eimear and
she's fabulous.
She's just a fabulous womanwith a really precious soul and
(01:23):
sometimes you just connect withpeople and I always felt a
connection to Eimear and herwonderful husband, jeff, so she
was always incredible.
So she's, as I said, she's awriter and a director, so her
Facebook posts are always reallyfunny and always really
eloquently written and I watchedthroughout COVID as she was
trying to wrangle chickens inher backyard in Dublin.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
I want to see that.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
It's hilarious and trying to do it like in the
middle of Dublin city centre isjust pretty, Although she
probably she knows she doesn'tlive in the middle of Dublin
city centre, but you guys wouldconsider it.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
We would consider it in the middle.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
They're all country folk here.
But a couple of months ago Icame across a really beautiful
post that Emer had put out thereand there's.
It was something that I didn'tknow about her and I just felt
it was a beautiful story andjust something that I think is
probably so relatable to peopleand especially, you know, irish
(02:16):
people and we don't often sharestories like this and I just
thought that this was a reallyhuman, beautiful story to tell.
So I was going to give it aproper introduction, eimear.
But I felt it was really human,beautiful story to tell.
So I was going to give it aproper introduction, eimear.
But I felt it was kind of yourstory to tell and we'd be really
honoured if you'd share yourstory with us.
Speaker 5 (02:32):
Well, thank you very much.
That was a lovely introductionand I launched straight in in
1988.
I gave a baby boy up foradoption and, um, that sort of
started, uh uh, my path, if youlike, and, um, it was very
difficult and it was kept veryquiet for a while and then,
(02:55):
after a few years, I uh began totell people my story and just,
uh, just kind of, if it came up,you know, I would tell people
my story and then, as time wentdown, I kind of wanted to not
sweep it under the carpet, Iwanted to talk about it more and
I suppose I was kind ofexpressing myself a lot more
(03:18):
through my writing and I justbegan to write.
I just began to write articlesfor magazines or you know, if I
was interviewed because of myother business, which was a
drama school and theaterdirector, and if it came up, I
(03:53):
just spoke, called it the powerof decision, because making the
decision was obviously probablythe most difficult decision I
ever made in my life, and, um,everybody else that was on the
um TEDx talk with me seemed tohave written a book, and I
remember thinking, well, Isuppose I really should write a
(04:14):
book.
So I started writing them.
I started writing my story.
Then, um, and I just keptchanging it and I kept trying to
perfect on it and there wasalways a reason why I never sent
it off to anyone.
And then then, over lockdown, Ithought this would be a good
opportunity to really edit thebook and, you know, kind of get
(04:40):
it done and get it sent to apublisher and get myself an
agent.
And what actually happened?
I suppose because during thelockdown, during COVID and we
all had so much time I actuallyended up inadvertently
uncovering and delving into thetrauma of having lost a baby,
(05:04):
and I didn't know that that waswhat I was doing, but in fact
that's what I was doing.
So the book got completelyrewritten and it was, it was
very raw, very therapeutic, butthe work was really, really.
I mean, I went to a very darkplace, facing up to, you know,
(05:27):
like I say, the trauma and painand the, the feelings that I had
suppressed for so long.
Because over the years I wouldlook back and I would say you
know, did I make a mistake?
Do I feel guilty?
You know, did I make a mistake?
Do I feel guilty?
And I'd look at everything thatI had, the reasons that I had
(05:47):
given him up for adoption andthe way my life had turned out,
and I just couldn't I couldn'tregret it.
I would say you know, if I wasto go back in time, I would do
the same thing, yeah, eventhough it meant, you know, a
lifetime of pain.
So because of that, I kind ofdidn't think I had any internal
work to do, but obviously I hada huge amount of internal work
(06:09):
to do, and so that was the workthat I did over COVID and then,
kind of coming out of that, Ijust kept rewriting it,
rewriting it, so it wasn't soraw, um, and I decided I was
going to, um, self-publish thebook and, um, I literally had
(06:30):
everything set up toself-publish and I was going to
kind of do it over the weekend.
And I was sitting and work onthe uh Wednesday 29th of
November last 2023, and I wasflicking through, uh, my
messages on Instagram and, um,suddenly I got a message from
(06:51):
somebody saying that he was myson and he was sorry to contact
me that way, um, and he had allof the information, um, that he
should have had as somebody I'dgiven up for adoption in 1988.
My first thought was why wouldsomebody do this to me.
First of all, how did somebodyget this information and why
(07:15):
would they do this to me?
And I was texting my husbandand I just didn't believe it
because it was almost 36 yearsand I had all but given up hope.
Yeah, I had gone beyond thepoint of even daydreaming and
even entertaining that anythinglike that would happen.
(07:37):
And then I went on to hisInstagram page and I had a look
at the photos of him and I knewit was him, so I catapulted into
shock immediately and that wasthat was when the story changed,
get the full U-turn.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
That's incredible.
I was only thinking about thatthis morning when I was thinking
about talking to you today andI was like gosh, I wonder if you
know if I didn't see my kidsfor a really long time.
I wonder if you do, especiallywhen you change so much from
kids to adults Like do you know,would you know that?
But I know it was them.
It's such a hard concept foranyone to try and wrap their
(08:20):
head around try and wrap theirhead around.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
Well, he was um, so he was about maybe three months
when I last saw him.
Um, and the the uh setup that Ihad when he was adopted was
that, uh, I would be sent aphoto every year and get a
little update on how he wasdoing, and so that was fine
until he was a I think aboutfive, and at the time I knew his
family lived in Dublin and Ijust was looking in baby buggies
(08:59):
everywhere I went I was lookingout to see because, you know, I
have no um, I've no brothers,but I've only sisters.
But, uh, he was beginning tolook like my cousins.
So I knew I would kind ofrecognize him and, um, so I
stopped, I made the decision tostop getting the photos because
(09:19):
I just was torturing myself.
Right then I knew his familymoved down to Kerry and that was
where he was brought up.
So when he was 21, I just wantedto know how he was doing and I
got in touch with the agency andI asked for a photo and I got
(09:41):
the photo you know of when hewas like 20, 21.
So the photo that I saw on hisInstagram even though he is now
36, was him talking about hisjourney, having gone to Canada
where he now lives, and he wentwhen he was 26.
(10:02):
So that was kind of like therewas only a couple of years
between the two photos.
So I saw that photo and I justwent oh my god, it's him, and it
was incredibly surreal oh, mygoodness, incredibly and 19 1988
, was it in Dublin.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
I mean, it was a very different time in Dublin as
well, like I remember being inschool and a girl and it would
have.
I mean, it was a very differenttime in Dublin as well, like I
remember being in school and agirl and it would have been.
I was trying to think aboutthat today.
It would have been around thesame age and she was in high
school with.
I was still in primary schoolat the time, but she was in
secondary school and I remembershe was like sent away down the
country and then she came backwith a baby.
Now she actually did keep herson, but it was like it was so
(10:44):
scandalous at the time and evenas a child I knew that it was.
It was.
Speaker 5 (10:49):
They were making it out to be scandalous as well and
you're like it was so hard inthose days yeah, there was a
different, a completelydifferent way of viewing
particularly young girls and butyou know it was at the time a
lot of, uh, girls were beginningto keep their babies and it was
(11:10):
, you know, I I always thinkthat they were the ones that
kind of paved the way.
They were very defiant.
We were still very um, you know, very cath Catholic country and
very, you know, very much, eventhough we were a little bit
more defined.
Like I say, we were still kindof under the thumb of the church
(11:33):
and our parents would have beenunder that pressure and you
know, I know, you know, in mycase, my parents, it wasn't so
much that, but it was just kindof thinking about my future and
I think that's why they gave me,you know, the option of
adoption.
So I probably was a little bitdifferent in that.
(11:54):
You know anybody around thearea here that did get pregnant
and of course, girls weregetting pregnant because nobody
was using contraceptive yeahright, contraceptive, nobody
meant to get pregnant you know,we were all like oh, you know um
you were a kid anyway, like you, you know.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
You were still a child yourself yeah, well, I was
.
Speaker 5 (12:16):
You know, I was 19 when I got pregnant, which you
know is not like very young.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
I guess to me.
I'm 52, I'm still thinking 19,is it still a baby?
Speaker 5 (12:26):
I was a baby at 19, I know, I know, and I was, I mean
, I was really scared, I, Ireally I really was well, you
grow up very quickly.
But I just, I mean, I did, Iweighed up everything, I, the
baby, went into foster careafter I had him in the hospital
(12:47):
with me for four days and thenhe went into, he went to a
foster family, and the ideabeing that I would be able to
kind of just get my headtogether and make a kind of a
clear decision, and it wassupposed to be for six weeks and
it was kind of more like nineor 10 weeks, and then I decided
that I would keep them and I hadweighed everything up and made
(13:10):
that decision and told everybody, told my social worker, told my
parents, my sisters, and toldthe foster mother, um, a woman
called adine, and uh, I, I wentto the house, sort of I used to
go and visit him and, um, I wentkind of the last time and we,
(13:31):
you know, it was all very joyousand um, and then I, I walked
into the room where he was and Ijust knew that I was not making
the right decision and it was areally that's the last time I
saw him.
I, you know, I kind of put himback down in his cot and I knew
(13:53):
that I wasn't actually going toto keep them.
So, heartbreaking it was.
It was like something that waskind of bigger than me that said
you know, what do you thinkyou're doing?
Speaker 4 (14:09):
You know I think that's the ultimate mother's
love is when you have to weighthe options of what's best for
the child in that moment and notweigh what you think is best
for you.
Speaker 5 (14:22):
Yeah, yeah, I mean a hundred percent, and I would
have considered myself I wouldhave been a very sort of a
wayward teen, I suppose, andnever really thought you know
about the full picture, neverreally thought you know about
the full picture.
And suddenly here I was, um,having to think about, uh, you
(14:42):
know, a person that I loved morethan myself, right, and um,
yeah, it was, yeah, it wasmassive, was the biggest thing
that ever happened to me, youknow so once you realized that
that was him, it was actuallyhim.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
What happened from there?
Speaker 5 (15:00):
um, yeah, well, I was in work first of all, so I no
longer um, work in the theater.
I kind of, um, kind of fellinto a few different things and
and then after, uh, covid and afew other things that happened,
I just said I just want to goand get a job with the salaries.
So, um, beat down doors, right,and so I work as a a clerk in a
(15:24):
hospital and, um, I was on mylunch and there was a nurse was
in the canteen with me and I, Ikind of just went into shock,
like I, I kind of had troublebreathing and gasping, and it
wasn't really crying, it wasmore like gasping.
And um, yeah, so everybody inwork knew it straight, but they
(15:46):
all knew that I was about topublish this book, everybody
knew my story.
Like I say, I've never been,I've never hidden my story, but
um, I I've.
You know, I sort of said, well,like my son, it's, my son has
contacted me.
And then I was saying, but it'sgood, even though I was, I was
crying, I was, I didn't knowwhether it was coming or going.
And um, I, uh, I went outside,I phoned my husband and he said
(16:12):
he'd come and get me, but Icouldn't speak, I'd lost, I'd
lost the ability to speak, andhe was saying, like, where are
you?
And I was like, well, I'mworking, you know?
Uh.
So anyway, he directed me, toldme where to go, got into the
car and, just as it happened, um, my two daughters, I have my
two daughters, uh are, they're22 and 24 and they both happen
(16:35):
to be home, and um, so it's justthe four of us and uh, I, you
know we were talking about it,and um, I hadn't at this stage,
I hadn't, I hadn't answered himback or hadn't, um hadn't really
fully read the message, evenproperly.
Um, so the girls um got a lotof information about him.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
They did like within you know, five minutes, yeah,
exactly.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Check out his Tinder.
Speaker 5 (17:09):
Yeah, so.
So they were saying you know he, he tried to contact you two
days ago were saying you know he, he tried to contact you two
days ago, um.
So what had happened from hispoint of view was that he had,
um, gotten curious and uh, gotgot some information from
adoption ireland.
Uh, it had arrived on the themonday.
(17:30):
So the wednesday was the daythat I that this all happened to
me, but on the monday he gothis information from Adoption
Ireland and had been thinking,oh, you know, I'll just sit on
this and see what I'm going todo, I'll decide.
You know, um.
But when he got my name and hegoogled my name and um, the
(17:51):
internet lit up with me talkingabout him, basically, and um, so
sweet, you know.
So he just said she's been soopen, I have to contact her
straight away.
So he sent me a reallybeautiful message on Facebook,
um, which I didn't see becauseI'm not really on Facebook all
that much, and um.
So it was two days later and hethen sent me a message on
(18:14):
Instagram, which was the one Isaw.
And so we were, we were at home, my husband and my daughters
and myself.
I kind of said, god, this istwo days ago that he texted me
first and you know, but I can't,actually I can't string my
thoughts together.
So my daughters began to texthim on my phone and they were,
(18:41):
they were texting each other andthey were just saying, look,
eimear is in shock and she willtalk later, but at the moment
she just wanted to kind of sayshe's thrilled that you got in
touch and it was just so lovelybecause you know, like for all
of those years, years, I had nopersonality to attach to the
baby that I lost, right, andsuddenly here was this grown man
(19:06):
who was saying things like Ican't believe I'm talking to my
sisters, this is amazing, um.
And he was saying, you know,give him a hug from me.
And had said things in his inhis initial message to say I
(19:26):
know why you, I know why yougave me up and you did it for me
, and you did it because youlove me and thank you and I've
had a great life.
And you know, I thought theywere very kind things for him to
have said to me and you know,so I kind of straight away
warmed to the person that he wasbecause you don't know, like
you, you know over the years.
(19:47):
You think, what if he does getin touch?
Or what if it's not compatible?
And what if you know?
What if he hates me or hasn'tforgiven me, or um, so it was
none of those things and I, I uh, began to text him.
Then later on the day, when Ihad kind of, you know, was able
to form a thought again and wewere texting for the for the
(20:09):
whole night and um, it was justso lovely and like that was
November, that was the last dayof November.
So we are in touch a lot andwe've had a few video calls,
like our video calls for an hourand a half, you know, just,
it's getting quite normal now.
Like you know, we're kind oflike that's what I was going to
(20:31):
ask Is it like those?
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Is it that it feels really natural, or was there
like hesitation?
Speaker 5 (20:41):
there was certainly hesitation from my point of view
, in that I was terrified I'dmake a mistake.
Yeah, of course I was like, ohmy god, I've been so lucky that
he's he's this kind of personand that he wants to reach out.
And what if I trip up?
What if he talks to me and hegoes?
Maybe, maybe not?
And he picked up on that.
You know our first video callhe said.
(21:03):
By the way, he said you know,I'm not going anywhere.
I want you to be yourself.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Did he always know he was adopted?
Speaker 5 (21:13):
He did, but he didn't have really any information.
He wouldn't have known that Iwas.
You know that I was interestedin him or anything like that.
And he said it wasn't reallysomething that they spoke about.
It wasn't an issue for him.
He just kind of thought oh, Isuppose my mom didn't want me,
(21:34):
but it didn't really bother him.
My mum didn't want me, but itdidn't really bother him.
He had a um, you know, a verysupportive and loving family and
um, he was very happy growingup, which is what I wanted to
hear, right, you?
know it was kind of weird thatthey said that to him.
I didn't want to hear that, oh,he had suffered all those years
, because then I'd feel like,yeah, I didn't make a mistake,
yeah, so, um, it was, it wasgood to hear that.
(21:57):
But um, yeah, just, um, just,and you know, really special to
be able to kind of just go onsocial media and see, you know
his family and see him and hiswife and his children and, um,
my god, I know that was probablythe hardest pill to swallow.
(22:23):
Actually, you know what I wouldhave said that it would be.
I would have always said thatI'd be saying to my daughters
you know, if you have kids,they're not to call me granny.
It didn't bother me at all.
I'm going around saying to thedog oh, would granny give you a
treat?
You know?
Um, yeah, yeah.
So that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
It's such a great story so you haven't met him yet
.
You haven't actually physicallymet him.
Speaker 5 (22:48):
Yes, no, so he lives in um kind of done out, as I
said, and uh like I would havehopped on a plane the next day
without a doubt.
But so we both had agreed wewanted to meet sooner rather
than later, but he's coming overin June, so so we're going to
(23:10):
meet early June.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
Oh my gosh, we have to have a follow up.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
We do have to have you been in contact with, like
his adopted family no, I have nocontact with them, okay, so I
didn't meet them.
I met them initially.
I met them once I had made thedecision, uh, you know, to go
ahead with the adoption, andthey had the agency or the
(23:40):
social workers had chosen afamily.
We had a meeting and it wasvery emotional, obviously, and,
you know, I felt better after,like I kind of felt relieved
because I liked them right, Itrusted them, you know, um, and
(24:01):
then that was the last, that wasthe last that I ever saw or
heard of of them.
Um, I mean, it's not for thewant, of you know, stalking
Facebook and wondering, like Ididn't have surnames or first
name even I didn't have anything, you know, wow, that's such a
story
Speaker 6 (24:18):
so did you feel like a lot of the healing happened
when you met him and talked tohim and knew that he had been
okay, that everything was good,he did make the right decision?
Do you feel like a lot of thetrauma that you'd experienced
had been healed with that?
Speaker 5 (24:34):
yeah, I mean it's interesting because I kind of
went through the trauma to the,to the point of healing, to the
point of um accepting that I had, uh, you know, suffered a
trauma from having lost a child,um, and there my story ended
and I kind of felt that I hadthis is.
(24:56):
This is where it is the end ofthe road for me, so I have to
get on with this.
So I had, I feel that I hadkind of done a huge amount of
internal work and I have somefriends, or three friends who
are psychotherapists, who arekind of saying you really
shouldn't have done that work onyour own.
And I was saying, well, Ididn't actually know that's what
(25:18):
I was doing actually, infairness.
And I was saying, well, Ididn't actually know that's what
I was doing actually, infairness.
But when I, when I, when I methim, it was like I don't think
it would have been the same hadI not done that work, right, you
know.
So it's like I don't this, thisis what I think.
I feel like I moved stagnantenergy and it brought him to me
(25:45):
in a way.
You know, that's kind of how Ifeel.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
And that help wouldn't have been around when
you were 19 anyway.
I mean, it wouldn't have evenbeen.
I'm sure nobody even suggestedyou go and speak to a therapist
when you were 19.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
Well, I did have a social worker who was um, you
know, it was helpful to talk toher about the things.
But, yeah, I mean definitely,if I had known what I know now,
then, yes, I would have gone theexcavation, as I call it a lot
earlier.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yeah, definitely it was a different, completely
different Ireland in those days.
Speaker 5 (26:27):
And the funny thing about the book that has, kind of
, I was writing another book,unpublished still, and a novel
completely unrelated, and Icouldn't move forward with it
until I went back and wrote thebook about my story, about my
adoption story, and I reallyfelt that creatively I was very,
(26:48):
um, very stuck and I justneeded to get this book written
and out of the way.
And that was how it started andit kind of obviously turned
into so many different things.
So I've done nothing with itbecause I think until I meet him
I'm not going to make adecision.
And, like, he knows about thebook and he's very laid back and
(27:11):
you know, whatever I feel Iwant to do with it he's okay
with and um, I've even said tohim gosh, maybe it could be a
like a um, uh, like a biopic orsomething like that.
You know um yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure, so and is he
(27:34):
creative?
Speaker 2 (27:34):
so I don't know.
Does he have the same creativebrain?
Speaker 5 (27:37):
um, I, I, I was delighted that he.
I was saying, oh my gosh, hewrites really well His posts on
Instagram.
You know I'm going.
Oh, it's great that his grammaris really good.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
He knows where to put the apostrophe Exactly.
Speaker 5 (27:55):
And I was like, oh no , yeah, that's great.
He wouldn't consider himselfcreative, but he's actually
quite funny.
He has a business with his wife, so the way he would be in some
of those posts.
He's quite funny and veryengaging, but kind of just
genuine, very genuine, very kind, just a great person I it's
(28:22):
really proud.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
That's amazing.
Ah, sure, look.
Wow, what a gorgeous story.
That's like a tragic story witha beautiful ending.
I'm so excited for you.
I'm so excited you get to meethim so I have a question for you
.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
So, as a psychologist , it comes up a lot, both from
parents or mothers who havegiven up you know a child, and
also from people who are adoptedand say like I wonder if I
should like search.
I mean, this comes up all thetime in counseling and now
there's 23andMe where people canfind you know relatives and
things like that through ourancestrycom.
So for you, would you give anyI don't know advice, feedback,
(28:58):
any thoughts about how it's liketo be on?
I guess either end and havesomeone reach out.
Speaker 5 (29:06):
Um, well, first of all I'd say, um, I mean, every
case is different, uh, and youjust don't know how somebody is
going to be.
I think both of us areextraordinarily lucky.
He didn't know what he wasgetting into when he contacted
me and then he has this surpriseof gosh.
I never stopped actuallythinking about him or talking
(29:28):
about him.
So you know he knows he's he'sgoing to be gaining a new family
and everybody knows about himand everybody's going to welcome
.
There's going to be no shocksor anything like that.
And I get the, the gift of.
You know he hasn't harbored any, you know any ill will towards
me.
He's, you know, very gratefuland and has had a good life.
(29:51):
So we're both very, very lucky,although I do think he was
incredibly brave to make thatconnection first because he
didn't know what he was gettinginto.
To make that connection firstbecause he didn't know what he
was getting into and I knowthere are people who do that and
it doesn't work out for them.
But as a birth mother and I canonly speak as a birth mother I
(30:22):
mean, even if the circumstancesare such that you're not going
to connect with your child oryou know, so if there's somebody
who's looking to contact theirbirth parent and they're not
getting in touch with them orthey don't want to know it is.
You know it's not that you'renot loved or haven't been
thought about, or you know therehaven't been nights, long
nights, when you know your birthmother has not, you know, has
(30:43):
been crying herself to sleep.
And you know, and it's not justme, I did a TV program a few
years ago called AdoptionStories on, you know, national
television here and it was areally hugely popular program.
It was like the series six orsomething like that, and, um, a
(31:07):
lot of, an awful lot of, uh,birth mothers and, you know,
lost boys, if I, for want of abetter word, contacted me, um,
after it, you know, and what,just wanted to talk and wanted.
I met some of them personally.
A lot of them we just spoke onthe phone, a lot of them we just
emailed, and there were a hugeamount of birth mothers who had
(31:31):
not told the story to theirfamily.
Um, even their husbands didn'tknow and they said, you know
that they would never, theywould go to their grave and
never connect with their child,but that they, every single day,
that they, um, you know theywere thinking and carrying the
love for that child and the lossof that child.
(31:52):
So so I kind of would say topeople you know, if, if you
think that you are okay with you, know you that you, you don't
know what's going to happen.
It may be a happy story likeours, and it may not be.
But I would just kind of say topeople that take heart that
(32:12):
it's so unlikely that you werehave not been loved and thought
about every day.
Uh, you know your mothercarried you for nine months Like
she's.
You know there's a bond, yeah.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
What's literally a piece of you.
Speaker 3 (32:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
That's incredible.
It's an incredible story.
Yeah, thank you so much forsharing it.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
You're so brave, you are.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Like unbelievable.
As I said in your intro, Ialways knew you were a beautiful
soul, but just even the way youtell this story is just so raw
and so transparent and soemotional, and I don't think any
of us are any the better forall of us.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
So you think my nose is.
I love to talk about it, yeah,and you're helping, so many
people and.
Speaker 5 (32:56):
I've always loved to talk about it, yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
And you're helping so many people and I've always
loved to talk about it.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Well, I think that's what's important.
I think you touched on it there.
I mean, I know a lot of people,a lot of friends and family I
have that are adopted as well.
You know their, their momsdidn't tell anyone that they'd
had kids, so they were alwaysafraid to go back and to find
their mom or from that rejection, being so afraid to be rejected
.
You know which must beterrifying on both, on both
(33:25):
parties as the mom, as the child, I just can't even imagine.
I'm just so glad it was a happyending for you.
Speaker 6 (33:34):
I can't wait till the book comes out.
I know and again.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
I will say one more time follow up.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
I know June.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Yes, after.
Speaker 4 (33:40):
June.
After June, we would love afollow up.
Speaker 5 (33:45):
Oh, I'd love to.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
We'd love to be lovely.
Speaker 5 (33:49):
And I might have made a decision at that stage as to
what I'm going to do about thebook.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
You know, you're going to know it when you know
it.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
It could be a movie.
Yeah, yeah, you'll know whenyou're supposed to know what
you're supposed to do with it.
Thank you for staying up solate to talk to us.
I know.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
And thanks for being such an inspiration on something
that people don't talk aboutall that often, and it's just,
it's an amazing story and we'reso very happy for you.
Speaker 5 (34:21):
Thank you so much, and can I just say to the four
of you that I'm only gettinginto podcasts, but I really
enjoy your podcast and I thinkyou make it work really well.
There's four of you.
It shouldn't work, but it does.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
I know right.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Thanks so much, Emer.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
Take care Best of wishes we'll look forward to
talking to you soon.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
Bye love see ya, take care.
Bye, bye, bye, bye.
Speaker 6 (34:48):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (34:50):
I can't really talk.
I was just holding back tears.
I was tearing up.
Speaker 4 (34:53):
I know that was very emotional.
We all know that I don't dowell with that.
I was yeah you know.
Speaker 6 (35:00):
My favorite thing, though, was what she said at the
very end, because I do thinkthat there are some people who,
if she's married, if she hadn'ttold her husband and he
contacted her, she might notreply, and then that feels like
rejection.
So I'm crying to say it, butwhat she said about to know that
, like you, were still loved,but maybe there's a reason why
they're not reaching back outreason why they're not reaching
back out I think that'simportant for people to hear.
I think it's incredible,incredible.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
Oh, there's someone out there I can't even describe
to you that needs to hear this.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
And I can't even describe what Dublin in 19, it
sounds like she had like a superprogressive family because,
like, we still had laundries inIreland at that stage where,
like young girls went and theylived in like industrial
laundries and they had theirbabies and those babies were
taken away from them and theywere given away and they were
(35:45):
all run by the Catholic church.
They were run by the nuns, so,um, I don't think that the U?
Speaker 4 (35:50):
S was.
Well, I mean I guess I can onlyspeak for Missouri, but my town
wasn't overly progressive, Imean there, I mean there was
maybe I don't know two or threethat I can remember, but they
just went away, yeah, and no onetalked about it and it was like
a whisper, but there was noacknowledgement, there was no,
(36:13):
and again there's.
I mean I'm not, I'm notthrowing stones at all, but I do
agree that it was a differenttime and terrifying for that
person, because I think it wouldbe terrifying even now in a way
.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
I think here not in Ireland like it's pretty
standard in Ireland it's notseen, as you know, a terrible
thing anymore.
We have lots of unmarriedmothers and and it's just the
way society kind of formed.
Whereas I still feel here wherewe are, I feel like this is
Ireland in the eighties.
(36:50):
Sometimes I kind of go oh myGod.
Like you know, people will behorrified if their 19 year old
daughter got pregnant and wasn'tmarried.
I still think that would be ahuge deal here.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
I don't, I mean I don't, I don't and wasn't
married.
I still think that would be ahuge deal here.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
I don't, I mean, I don't, I don't, I don't know.
Did you see that, gosh?
It was on the news, I think itwas maybe two or three weeks ago
.
But it was all these women, Ithink, in South America, and
they were told that their babieswere died at birth.
But they were all alive andthey took them all and like they
were all, and they found outlater and there was like a
reunification of all these kidswith their moms and just they
knew immediately but theythought all this time their kids
(37:28):
were deceased and then havingthat reunion, I just can't
imagine.
Speaker 6 (37:33):
There was a special story.
I think it was in the US,though that happened with a
certain doctor's office orwhatever that would do that.
I can't remember what it wasnow, but it was like I don't
know if it was Dateline 48 hours, yeah.
Speaker 4 (37:44):
I think it was.
Speaker 6 (37:45):
Dateline.
It was really interesting.
I mean, it was horrible,because they thought they lost
their baby and then found outlater that they were alive.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
So sad I can't imagine At least social?
Speaker 3 (37:53):
media is good for something it's like for those
kinds of things.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
I often think that those dinner parties you know,
with the 23 and me there wassome very awkward conversations
at Christmas when everybody gota 23 and me set.
Speaker 4 (38:07):
Oh my gosh, I can't a thousand percent.
Speaker 6 (38:11):
And then they're like oh, no, yeah, yeah, I mean
because, like just for so manydifferent reasons, I mean you
put the DNA out there and youcan track a lot of stuff.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
So I just she's brave though she's she's.
Speaker 4 (38:28):
it's like what you said, Lisa, like her energy and
just her spirit.
She's gorgeous, she's just shereally is Like you don't even
have to see her.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
No, no, no, Just to feel.
Yeah, her warmth, yeah wordyeah, just build.
Just what an amazing human sheis so it would be fun to follow
up and find out how that Ireally would love to do that
well, I'm friends with her onfacebook, so I'll see it all and
that'll get her back.
Okay, and she will.
She'll keep her promise.
She'll be good.
I just you know.
Speaker 4 (38:55):
Talk to her again yeah, it is, you know talk to
her again.
Yeah, it is.
Yeah, you know, we always likea good ending to a story, like
that Special story.
I know Like it's always nice tojust celebrate the good endings
, yeah.
Speaker 6 (39:10):
Cheers to happy endings.
Speaker 4 (39:11):
Happy endings, happy endings yes, cheers, I just
can't.
Oh my God, oh my God.
Speaker 6 (39:18):
Did you guys feel the note?
I was, oh my.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
God, I actually think we need to keep this and like,
let it go.
I think so too.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
This is what it's like to be with us.
That was totally innocent.
We are real.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
We say happy endings and we meet it in the just the
basics.
Speaker 6 (39:36):
In the most genuine way.
Have a great night.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Have a good night basics in the most genuine way.
Thank you for joining theladies of the middle-aged
podcast as they journey throughthe ups and downs of this not
young, but definitely not oldseason of life.
To hear past episodes or makesuggestions for future episodes,
visit wwwmiddleagedcom.
Wwwmiddleageishcom.
(40:07):
That's wwwmiddleageishcom.
You can follow along on socialmedia at Middle Age-ish Also, if
you have a moment, to leave areview rate and subscribe.
That helps others find the showand we greatly appreciate it.
Once again, thank you so muchfor joining us and we'll catch
you in the next episode of theMiddle Age-ish Podcast.
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