MikeyPod 350 | Musician Caroline Weinroth of Cinema Hearts

Pageant Queen turned indie-rocker Caroline Weinroth joins me on the podcast this week to talk about Cinema Hearts, the band for which she serves as lead singer, guitarist, and songwriter. We talk about her experience as a contender for Miss Virginia, and how that experience inspired the band’s EP, Your Ideal. Caroline’s insight and openness …

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hello, and welcome to Mikey PODD podcast.
Episode three 50 for September 20th, 2022.
Today's guest is Caroline wineRoth. She's the lead singer,
guitarist and songwriterfor the band cinema hearts.
We'll be talking about her history as acontender for miss Virginia and how that
history inspired the band'slatest EP. Your ideal.

(00:21):
This conversation is like so muchmore than that. It's super deep.
It was one of those conversations whereI kept like getting stunned and like,
okay, I gotta process for a second. Uh,it was a really great conversation and,
uh, Caroline was really fun to talkto. You're gonna love this interview.
Stick around, by the way. I'm your host,Michael Harron. I'm a composer pianist,
electronic musician, storyteller,and activist based in New York city.

(00:44):
On this podcast.
I have conversations with fellow creatorswho use their creativity to change the
world. I've been sending this podcastyour years for well over 17 years.
If you like what you hear,
subscribe using the colorful buttons inthe sidebar and [e-mail],
or you can just search myy bot inyour favorite podcast directory.
If you'd like to know more about me,
stop by my [e-mail] me up on social media everywhere.

(01:08):
Actually don't do that right now becauseI put everything in dormant mode.
But if you're listening this later,
hit me up on social mediaeverywhere as at Michael Herron,
or you can always email meat Mikey PODD, gmail.com.
And there's an art formthat has been left behind,
uh, with the advent of social media.

(01:29):
And that is leaving commentson people's websites.
You could always leave [e-mail] on this episode or any of the
other fine episodes,
the other 349 fineepisodes of that podcast,
which I have been kindof investigating lately.
Um, so I've been cleaning upthe back end of my websites,

(01:51):
and there's been a lot of noticing,
a lot of dead links and alot of weird things happened.
So I've been revisiting all these oldposts, which I've mentioned before,
but the other thing that I justdecided to start doing is, uh,
to create a huge playlist right now,
it's just on apple music of all the musicthat I've played on the podcast over
the years. Why are myplosives so bad right now? Um,

(02:13):
I don't remember ever their hearingthem that bad. So let's, they're, uh,
it's called it's on my Mikey, uh, my, uh,
my apple music profile, uh, it's, uh,
258 songs,
but I've only made it through makingthis collection through the first 133
episodes of the show, which wasback in 2009, I think is where,

(02:36):
where we're at now. It's reallyinteresting to me anyway,
pulling all these songs together, lotsof pod, safe music, lots of songs.
I played that weren't exactly,uh, with permission, um,
still flying under the radar somehow,
which maybe I should stop talking aboutthat. Um, but it's really been fun.
And one of the things that I've noticedand kind of miss about doing this

(02:59):
podcast is that I usedto be a lot more me.
a lot more sort oflike reflections, kind of like, what do they call it?
A personal, um, or like apersonal journal type thing.
I don't think I wanna gocompletely in that direction,
but I came to a point somehow whereI was like, oh, this isn't about me.
It's about the guests,
but people really were interactingwith the podcast a lot more back then.

(03:21):
So maybe I should be a little lessworried about, um, talking about myself,
but of course saying that I'm gonna beless worried about talking about myself,
makes me even more self-consciousabout it. So that'll be enough of that.
Maybe more next time. um,
there are a couple of things I wannamake sure I tell you about before we get
into the interview with Caroline.
One of them is that there is aNYC podcaster expo coming up.

(03:45):
Um, and one of the things I didn't usedto have to do is put on reading glasses,
but I'm doing that right now.And this meetup is October 9th.
That's coming up very soon. Um, it's, uh,
meetup tour and NYC podcaster,
second annual mini con. And I didn'tgo to the first annual mini con,
which is a damn shame, honestly,

(04:06):
but I'm gonna go to this oneand there's gonna be speakers.
I'm gonna be giving alittle quick talk and, um,
I'll put a link to all thisinformation on the website,
if you're in what NYCcome to this, um, it's,
it's sort of a shame thatwe don't have more of a,
the active podcast community.
I was just about to go on a whole thingabout like back in my day podcasts,

(04:30):
we're just about individualindie podcasts now, the pod.
And I know that they're reallygood, but I like podcast,
like when we're just talking andit's not some big, you know, oh,
that's enough of that. I didn't make my point.
I feel like a lot of podcasts arelike NPR and they're not made by NPR,

(04:50):
but there's a definite like thing thathappens in there. It used to be so much,
it's still fun. It's still fun.Anyway, I'm going on too much. Uh,
the other thing I need to tellyou about is, um, cinema hearts,
the band we're gonna be talkingabout today with Caroline WMO,
they have their album release showin Washington, DC on September 23rd.
It's at 10:00 PM at comic ping pong. Um,

(05:13):
I'll put a link in the shownotes for that as well,
as well as links to all of Caroline'sstuff and all of cinema, heart stuff.
Um, and the show will also bestreamed. If I understand correctly,
I'm 99.46,
certain that it's gonna be live streamed.So be sure to check that out. Um,
I'm most likely gonna be therewatching it, uh, live streaming, uh,

(05:37):
because I'll be in New Yorkcity, but, uh, check it out.
Let me know if you're gonna be there.Maybe we could, uh, be there together,
but not really. All right. So weshould get into the interview,
but first I do wanna thank my subscriberson Patreon for powering this podcast.
These are people who subscribe for$5 or more a month get special perks,
like tons of free downloads of mymusic and scenes and bonus podcasts.

(05:59):
We're closing in on 80 bonus podcasts, uh,
that you'll have immediateaccess to when you subscribe. Um,
including all this other stufflike digital copies of like seven,
I think seven or eight zines I'vemade each with its own music. Um,
you download my album, there's a remixalbum, all kind of good stuff. So, um,
if you join, you can get that stuffright away. The moment you subscribe,

(06:22):
um, and this week's bonus episodewill feature an extended conversation,
which is also completely onfire with Caroline. Weinroth.
So enough of that, let's hearsome music. This is cinema hearts,
your ideal, which will be followed bythe interview with Caroline wine Roth.

(07:03):
I.
Parade princess
the out.

(07:40):
I.

(08:38):
I on I wanna be your ideal.
I wanna be, I wanna be your ideal.
I.
Wanna be.
I wanna be.

(09:24):
That was cinema hearts with yourideal from the album, your ideal,
and here with me now is Caroline.Weinroth from cinema hearts.
to talk aboutthe album. I welcome.
Thank you for having me here.
Uh, I'm really excited to learn aboutyour music and your history and all the
different things you do. I'm also amusician and I'm also a music teacher.

(09:45):
So there's a lot of thingsthat I was looking. Yeah.
So I was looking at all of this stufflike, oh God, there's gonna be a lot,
a lot that we could talk about.
yeah.
Before you get too far away from it,what if, can we talk a little bit about,
uh, your ideal and I have a feeling thestory of that song mm-hmm
might kind of give us some backgroundabout, you know, what the EP is about.
Absolutely.

(10:05):
So your ideal was writtenabout my experience competing
in miss America, pageants, whichis something I did for three years,
um, after I had graduatedcollege and it was a really
beautiful, impactful, memorable townin my life. And I'm so happy I did it,
but it was also the most stressful andthe toughest thing I've ever done. Yeah.

(10:30):
And this, so the song you're ideal,
I wrote it in like an instant,
the moment I got home from competingat the miss Virginia pageant.
Um, and for those of you who areprobably unaware of pageants,
the way miss America works isyou enter a local competition.
And whoever wins goes to the state andwhoever win state goes to the national

(10:51):
and the national is what's shown on TV.
So I made it as far as going to the state.
And my big dream was I really wantedto be on TV at miss America and play
my electric guitar for my talent.
Cause I thought that would be very cooland subversive and very inspiring to
young girls, because I often felt likewhen I was a child that like, I didn't,

(11:11):
I didn't know women made music. I didn'tknow women played guitar. Yeah. And so,
cause you know, you can, youcan only be what you see.
And I didn't see thatuntil I was like 19. Um,
so your ideal,
I wrote at the moment I came homefrom competing at miss Virginia,
just feeling like I really had put myselfout there and I really pushed myself

(11:32):
to the max.
And now the song has becomea lot more about like
overcoming perfectionism.
And what does it mean when you try tolive up to an image that is unattainable?
What does it mean when you put otherpeople's expectations or other people's,
um,
desires or needs ahead ofyour own and just like feeling

(11:56):
all of that crumble down around you?
the,
one of the things that'sreally interesting to me and I mm-hmm , I,
I don't know.
It's it feels telling about justhow I've perceived things until you
I've learned something today. mm-hmm until like the,
the idea that that for youcompeting in pageants was
a, was a way to, um,

(12:18):
empower young girls who would see youmm-hmm and you know, in my,
in, in my growing space I would,in my mind, I'm like, wait, no,
don't look, don't watch that. You know,like I would wanna tell girls, like,
don't watch beauty pageants,do what you wanna do,
but it was interesting for you to sortof take ownership of that in a way. Yeah.

(12:39):
Right. And I mean, I'm, I'm withlike I'm with you and that's,
I think kind of like the,
the tension I've always felt aboutmy participation and love for the
pageantry system,
but then also my critique and my like,
I don't want to be intense and belike my abhorrent disdain . Um,

(13:00):
but at the same time, it's like,so I'm a, I'm a music teacher too.
Mm-hmm I teach guitar,
piano when singing and I have a lot oflittle girl students. And the thing is,
is like, they don't knowwhat pageants are per se,
but they are all about princessculture and they are all about glitter.
They're all about like thesethings, like, even like I could say,
let's take away pageantry,
but like the elements of it are stillso immersed in our culture, you know?

(13:24):
Yeah. And I think for me, it waslike, and this is kind of like,
I don't know if this is the best way Icould have gone about it, but I was like,
let me infiltrate this very glamorousworld that I genuinely wanna
be a part of and use this imageryto kind of like make a commentary on
it. So it's like, yeah, I could go wearmy crystal crown and talk to girls and,

(13:47):
you know, instantly Ithink I'm a princess,
but if I'm talking to themabout how, um, you know,
I play electric guitaror I write songs, um, or,
you know, like I workreally hard in school.
Like all of these things that theymight not listen to, someone else say,
like that felt veryimpactful and very memorable.
And I find it very funny that likethe training I received through miss

(14:11):
America, that's what I usedthe most as a music teacher.
That's really interesting.
Yeah. Like just that, like,it's kind of like politician,
just like that very like instantheart to heart connection.
Mm-hmm obviously I tryto be more sincere about it than like a
Congress person, but like, yeah.Just like, but it's just that, like,
you have to instantly put yourself outthere and be vulnerable with strangers

(14:33):
and find a way to connect withsomebody very, very quickly.
So you can get a message across.
Yeah. Oh, that's like, that's, I mean,
it's something we learnhopefully through our lives,
just in our relationshipswith people. Um, but yeah,
especially as a teacherand with kids and I,
I wasn't planning on talkinga lot about teaching, but.

(14:55):
Me.
Neither ,
but there's something about like workingwith kids and I feel like you're on
this vibe too, that you can't, uh,
condescend to them orlike be cute with them.
Like you have to treat them likehuman beings sounds shocking.
Yes. I know.

(15:16):
No, but that's so it's so true. AndI mean, I think that's why like,
like I never planned on being a teacher.
It's kind of something that happenedto me. Um, after the pandemic,
I used to work in audio engineering andI used to do like sound for lab events,
but there were no live events. And so, um.
Oh yeah.
You know, so that's a, that that careerpath didn't work out, which is fine.

(15:36):
It was a very tough field to bein. So I switched to teaching. Um,
but yeah, it's just like,
and I think also this kind of permeatesthrough cinema hearts as well,
because again, like when I wasyounger, like I just, I didn't know,
DIY bands existed. I didn't know.
People could just like write songs andthen decide they wanna be on stage in the
way that they decide. Like Ijust kind of thought, like,

(16:00):
it was very like manufactured,
like the radio decides howmusic is consumed. Yeah. Um,
so it's just like, I kind of like,
feel like I have to respect thisopportunity that's presented to
me that it's like, oh, likewhether I like it or not,
like people of all ages are goingto see the things that I'm doing,

(16:22):
whether as cinema hearts or as a teacher,
or as like former missNorthern Virginia or whatever,
and like they're gonna latch onto it.
Yeah. So.
Yeah. Heavy stuff.
yeah. I love the heavy stuffbecause there's so much about, you know,
being an artist and that's one of thethings that came up that I wonder about,

(16:43):
you know, like when, when you,
when you were talking about how youdidn't really know that just this is how I
perceived it. Like just anyone canbe a musician or be a di DIY artist.
Was it like, was there a piece inthere about like, oh, well that's,
that's something that like theseelite isn't the right word,
but this separate type of person mm-hmm, mm-hmm, ,

(17:03):
who's an artist. Yeah.
There's like there's last set.
Yeah. Or like it's some foreignthing that you, you weren't.
right. I think.Yeah. No, absolutely.
And I think a lot of my ethichas been inspired by my time,
volunteering with girls rock camps.
Mm-hmm and just the thingsthat I've learned through like their,

(17:24):
um, workshops and how theyoperate. But yeah, like even,
even when I did missAmerica pad is I'm like,
there's no like AsianAmerican women who are
playing electric guitar as their talent.Mm-hmm , there's no way.
There's like, there's like,
I was such a minority in terms oflike my performance, how I looked,
how I acted my moral andpolitical beliefs that like,

(17:49):
it was like a big challenge. Um,
but then the same thing also kind ofhappened in DIY where it's like, oh,
nobody's wearing like the costumes thatI like wearing no one's putting in like
the showmanship and the theatricalitythat I wanna put in. Like, no,
one's making the type of musicvideos that I'm trying to make.
So I always kind of felt like I wasfloating between these different worlds.

(18:10):
And I think only as I'vegotten like more self-assured
that as an artist, you have to kindof like, trust your own vision.
Like you have to trust, like, if you'redoing stuff that no one else is doing,
you're probably doing it.Right. Yeah. What is very scary?
Do you find yourself in thisplace where people ask like, well,
what does your music sound like? Orwhat do you do? And you're like, ah,

(18:32):
I don't know how to.
Tell you this. No, it's like, I mean,that's the other thing it's like,
I love oldies music. It's like, uh,
how embarrassing I love surf rock.
I love girl groups. It'slike, uh, gosh. So yeah.
I feel like when people ask, like,what do you make? I kinda like utter,
like I make like garage rock,that's inspired by sixties,

(18:53):
girl groups and surf. Andthen they're like, what.
As now, as well.
It was,
was kind of like the burger recordsmovement of like revitalizing that oldie

(19:14):
sound or like, I was really into dumb,
dumb girls and Lalu and they were alldoing that kind of revivalist kind
of deal.
Yeah. But that's the it's it's.
But even that's not mainstream .
Yeah. It's just really, I,
one of the things I love about everythingwe're talking about and the way you do
your art and your lifeis that you even when,

(19:38):
like in the pageant,
it sounds like you manage to like find
the empowerment in, in, um, in that,
what am I trying to say? .
It's mean? Cause I think it's like,there's a stereotype. Yeah. And I think,
I think it can be true that peop thatwomen who compete it's like their mom

(19:59):
pushes them into it or they go intoit and then they try to conform
mm-hmm and that's sortof like the joke I say where it's like
every single winner looks andacts the same, like for decades,
every single one of 'emlooks and acts the same.
And that was also something I was tryingto like put in with my music video.
Like I purposely cast women who were realpageant contenders because I knew they

(20:23):
would understand like what the kindof like Stepford wife kind of style
is. So I get that realism of like,it's very, it's very concerning.
Sometimes.
like just how it's likeeveryone kind of moves and acts the
same. But then at the same time, everyoneis so individual, they all have their,

(20:44):
you know, unique like communityservice initiatives, their talents,
what they do be like outside ofthat, like, they're all so different,
but that's not shown to thepublic. That's not on TV.
I'm trying to like, there's,
there's a part of like when I wasreading about you and, and, you know,
kind of developing a,

(21:05):
more of an understanding aboutpageants and just kind of becoming,
I'm trying to becomeself-aware of yeah. You know,
how I was looking at pageants ina way that was also in my like
striving to be
for lack of a betterword woke in that area.
Mm-hmm I wasactually being dismissive and

(21:28):
you know, like looking at that as like,oh, that's the bad thing and right.
And in a way being sexistby just discounting. Oh,
the huge group of women who weredoing something that they wanted to
do. You know what I mean? I, I don'tknow that I'm putting that into.
Oh, no, no, totally, totally. And Ithink it's also some of it's like,
cuz that's like,

(21:50):
and like I do think that likea lot of that world can be
in that direction.
Like there's not as much agency for thecontestants or the winners as I think
there absolutely should be. Mm-hmm um, but it's like,
I think because it's like a, likea hyper feminine space, right.
It's a hyper feminine space where thepeople who choose to be in it lean into

(22:11):
that heavily. And also it's like a,it's a system that's based on like,
I can get like so deep into this, thisis like what I wrote my thesis about.
Like I love it.
It's a system that's basedon like American racism on
classism, on sexism. So like inherently,
can you reform that? Notreally, you know, like,

(22:33):
can you fix a system that was abody contest? I don't know. Hmm.
But it's like the same could besaid for modeling for Instagram
influencers. Um,
heck for me just likemoving about my daily life,
like just like for existing,for some people, you know,
or we don't feel that samelike distaste for like the NFL

(22:58):
in a sense, which is a very hypermasculine space. Yeah. So, or hyperemia,
if you think about the cheerleaders,
like that's also kind of like asimilar deal of like exploitation and
using women and their appearanceand their obedience and their
silence to make money .
And, and lift up men like yeah.

(23:19):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I, I keep havingthese moments big.
I know we, we have these bigpauses. It's like, oh, it's like,
we're in a class discussion now. Yeah.
Or something but it's good. Ilove this kind of conversation and the,
and the way that your,your art and, you know,
the way you showed up inthe pageants was, you know,

(23:40):
in both embracing the, um,
the culture of it while, like, I don'tknow if subverting it is the right word,
but like while like bringing yourselfthe parts of you that could have,
you know, not fit and lettingthose be what propelled you
in the pageant. So I feel like I'msaying things in a weird way. No.

(24:03):
I get, I get what you'resaying. And I think it's like,
it was something that I've only realizednow that I'm like many years out of it.
Like I'm no longer, I'm too old to bemiss America now mm-hmm .
So now I can look back on it and be like,what the heck was I doing? But yeah.
It's like when I was competing,
I was too afraid to be myselfand really just like unabashedly,

(24:24):
like, like strike out my own identity.
I was so concerned with acting like allthe other contestants and that's why I
never did well.
And that's why I would get very stressedout and like bomb the competition.
okay.
That's, that's allegory right there.
Yeah.
You know, and anything we do,
we just have to kindalike stick to our truths.

(24:46):
Yeah. I'm just really thinking about thedunk. This is, this is becoming like,
yeah. A lot. It just reminds me oflike times in my life too, where I've,
where I've had that exact thingwhere right. I was so yeah.
Wanting to be wanting to fit in withthe status quo and whatever setting
so much that I screwed it up.

(25:07):
They were than I wouldhave because I couldn't,
I was so freaked out about lettingpeople see who I really was.
Absolutely. And I think that wasa big reason why I chose, well,
I actually chose pageants as sort of likean imagery I wanted to use for cinema
hearts. Like five years beforeI even competed. For real,
it was just something I was always drawnto. But I think a lot of it was like,

(25:30):
because those metaphors of like a
competition of cults of personality,
it happens in our everydaylives all the time,
but we just never really acknowledge itand we never know how to approach it.
Hmm. I love that. I hada moment like, oh yeah,
we're talking about an album. Likewe're talking about your music. Um.

(25:52):
I realized this would happenwith this. Um, with like,
when I would talk about thealbum, I was like, gosh,
I'm gonna talk a lot aboutpassions when this happens.
I'm waiting for the day where I'mlike, when NPR calls me up, like, yeah,
we need a page and expert. AndI'm like, I'm here. .
.
But.
Let's like, I love thiskind of conversation.

(26:14):
Cause I really like talking toartists who are using their art as
activism or social justice,
like all the different ways people usetheir art and that's exactly what you're
doing and what we're talking about.
Mm-hmm soit's perfectly on topic,
but it's really funny to be like, oh yeah,
we are talking aboutyour music and what like.
That, that occurs to me.Yeah. Cause it's like,

(26:35):
it's also like my world have blurredtogether so much that I'm like, oh yeah,
it's no longer me pretending to belike this miss America who plays
guitar character. LikeI actually did that.
and that is what makesthe music video weird too.
Um,
it must have felt natural to write musicabout this because you're a musician.
It.
It felt very scary. Like I was actuallyvery nervous to put out this record.

(26:57):
Cause I thought people wouldn't get itor that they would like kind of how you
were saying, like they would just belike dismissive, like, oh, this or one,
one thing someone emailed me was like,
they didn't expect music from likea pageant contestant to be so good.
Pageant contestants are notoriously,not good singers or song writers.

(27:20):
Did that feel like acompliment when they said that?
I was like, I, well, I knewthis person and I was like, you know me,
of course it's gonna be good.Cause I've written other songs,
not about this topic. .Yeah. But anyway, but yeah,
I was very nervous to put this recordout and kind of revisit that world,
especially I think, because it'slike, in terms of pageantry,

(27:43):
like I don't do it anymore. I'm justlike, I'm a, has been, you know,
I'm a former and oftentimes womenwho latch onto that it's cuz
they don't have any otherform of like excitement or
glamor or whatever in their lives.
And I feel so fortunate that I get toexperience all these like beautiful,
magical moments, like every day. Um,

(28:06):
but on the plus side, likeeveryone's been really into it,
kinda like what you were saying.
Like I think everyone's gone througha moment where they've struggled with
perfectionism or wantingto fit in or not sure.
Like if they have to be in thespotlight, how do they go about that?
And that kind of struggle. It's so human.

(28:28):
it's I'm I'm still justlike processing stuff
but in a good way, like it'sum, because I like when,
when I first saw your, your, your,uh, bio and all the different stuff,
I was like, oh, this is really inflike I, I was already like, oh,
this is really interesting.The way you, you know, put,

(28:48):
pulled these things together. But nowthat we're really talking about it and uh,
yeah. There's I, I get like, uh,stumped, I guess when I'm like,
whoa, like thinking a lot of, a lot ofdifferent new ideas showing up. So, uh.
That's okay. I mean, I'm happy to bethe catalyst for these new approaches,
but I think that's kinda what you'resaying. Like people, if I tell them like,

(29:09):
oh, I'm part of like the WashingtonDC, like punk DIY music scene.
And I competed in pageants,like legitimately on my own volition. They're like
I get it
once hung out with Anne Mackay and allhe wanted to do was ask me questions
about America.
oh, that's a trip.

(29:30):
Yeah.
Um,
did you know like when you were startingto put these things together that it
was gonna be as surprisingto people as it is?
Yes. That's why I did it.
Oh, okay.
yeah. Like I, one reason, uh,
I was very addicted to likehaving a pageant title.

(29:51):
Was it made it very easy to sharemy music because it, it is such,
no one else has done it. Mm-hmm and that felt very scary.
No one else has done it, but like,like I've always kind of joked, like
whenever I wanna learn something new, Iusually like go to the library and like,
I'll get books out about it. And I'mlike, there's no book about this.

(30:13):
So I've just kinda hadto like make my own.
Like I I've, I have theseexperiences, an artists too,
where there's a lot of like,you know, like, how do I,
how do I present this? Right.Whatever thing that I, I make,
like solo shows where I tell storiesand there's electronics and like mm-hmm,

(30:33):
orchestral instrumentsand a video. And like, you know,
it's like a weird, it's notentirely original, but like,
it's something that is hard to like.
Present what.
You, yeah. Yeah.
I know nothing's original, but ifit's you, you are the original.
Yeah. And that's a thingthat can be really ch Ooh.

(30:53):
So it.
Scary. Right?
Yeah.
And it connects to what you were sayingbefore that I kind of connected with
that feeling of like those moments wherewe're trying so hard to fit in that we
leave ourselves behind whenreally being our authentic selves.
Would've been what was usefulin that moment. Exactly.
Like I have only since I'vestarted playing live with my band,

(31:15):
like since maybe February of this yearmm-hmm so like I took a
long break in the pandemic. Um, and Idid a lot of like solo live streams,
but it was only when I cameback with my band and everything
that I felt like I wasreally myself on stage.
Like I wasn't trying to be what I thought,
like a DIY musician should be whata punk musician should be or what

(31:38):
a pageant person should be. Like. Ireally, like, I felt like I would joke,
like I kind of blacked outand I'm just like, all right,
now I'm just like myself.
And those have been the best shows I'velike played in my life and like the most
confident I've ever been. And yeah,
it is very scary for anyoneto just not like to kinda

(31:59):
let their guard down andto be like, all right,
I'm gonna share with a bunch of strangers,
like my most vulnerable squishy parts.
And let's just hope they're into it,but that's what people connect with.
Cause that's what everyonewants to be like that, like,
they admire that courage.
Mm-hmm and like,

(32:19):
I can't remember if we talkedabout representation yet,
but I wanted to talk about that.Mm-hmm but like, um,
people wanna see themselves.
Absolutely.
On stage and when we're authentic and, um,
intimate and sincere tellingabout ourselves people
really. Yes. They reallyconnect with that.

(32:42):
Yeah. And I think it'slike, even like, beyond,
like if you say like physicalrepresentation or like racial or gender
representation, it's like,
everyone can connect to like a,
like a very detailed, personalstory in a way, you know? Yeah.
Or even if they can't connect,

(33:02):
like hopefully they have like thehuman capacity to like empathize.
Yeah. You.
Know, I've been veryfortunate to have like,
just like amazing audienceswho are always like so
receptive. Um, so yeah.
Whoa, this is, I'm playing a show, um,
next week and I'm like, wow.Now I'm excited for that.

(33:24):
I was scared now I'm like, oh, nevermind.Like if you're scared of something,
it means you care.
Oh yeah. Yeah. That's areally important lesson.
Like anxiety too. Like, oh,look at that. I'm I'm really,
this is something that reallymatters. Right. And that's good.
Like that's great that you getto have something like that.

(33:44):
Amazing. Yeah. Very exhausting.But you know, I wouldn't,
I wouldn't train anythingelse for it. .
Yeah. I think we . Ihate we're the end of our time.
Yeah. But we're running. Oh.
My gosh. I'm so sorry.
No, it's okay. Like, and I wannado our little mini interview too,
but like I hate, like, it felt like,like, cause this conversation is so good.
I'm like, wait, we can't end already,but we're like, yeah. It's it's time.

(34:08):
What, but we're gonna listento another song too. Um.
Yeah, but I think the song youpicked really latches onto this.
Uh, it's called sister.Sister. Yeah. Yeah. Um,
sounds like you havesomething to say about it.
Yeah. You know, uh, sister wasnot supposed to be on this album.
I was gonna cut it becauseit was initially a guitar song mm-hmm

(34:30):
and I didn't, I didn't know whatto do with it. And also I think,
because it is very different lyricallyfrom what I've written before.
Like it's very, as we've beensaying very vulnerable, very like,
I mean, I kind of wanna sayit's a little bit messy.
It's a little bit icky in some ofthe words. Like I remember the line,

(34:50):
like all the goons, think twice, Iwas like, why am I using that word?
And I was like, that's how I view thosepeople who are just like rude. Um,
but yeah, sister was not gonnabe on it. It was a maybe,
but then I was working withbar strange in the studio and I
was like, Baris, if youreally believe in this song,
like you come up with whatever youwant, like, and I'm just gonna trust it.

(35:12):
And he came up with this verybeautiful immersive synthesized
production and it's unlike everyanything I've made before and
probably will be unlike anyother song I make again.
And I think it's just likeit encapsulates sort of like
that. I was gonna say sort oflike a floating feeling of like,

(35:33):
not really being sure likehow you can connect with
people or what your place in the world is,
but also just like eventually at the end,like just like landing being grounded.
Um, but yeah, sister was about, uh,
my roommate that I had whenI competed at miss Virginia.
And it was also about a time whereI spent a week with my friend, Abby,

(35:58):
Abby Rashid. Who's also a songwriterwith her family in South Carolina.
And it was just like me being aroundlike all of these, like women, my age.
I've never had a sister growing up andjust kind of feeling like I can let my
guard down. Like I canjust hang out with them.
I can wear my retainer in front of themat night and not have to like put up,
put up this mask of beinglike perfect public person.

(36:20):
Like we can just let our guard down andjust like be comfortable with each other.
Before we listen to it.
Can you tell everyone where to findthe things ? Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah. If you love deepdiscussions like this,
you should follow me on Instagramand TikTok at cinema hearts.

(36:40):
I love answering questions.
I love making little videos anddoing like tutorials and I will
never stop talking about indie music andpageants. If you ask me any questions.
.
Um, you can also follow meon Twitter at cinema hearts.
And I have, uh, a new videofor your ideal on YouTube.

(37:01):
And I have music as cinemahearts on Spotify and band
camp where you can get CD andvinyl and you can stream my new EP,
your ideal produced. BYY strange.
That was perfect. Ilove the way you put it.
So like you knew how to get throughthat. Perfect. yeah,
I noticed uh, well,

(37:23):
thanks so much for joining us and,uh, patrons who are listening,
be on the lookout in the next coupleof days for an extra bonus podcast.
We're gonna talk alittle bit about, about,
I don't know what yet we gotta figurethat out. Um, but that'll be for after,
but thanks so much for joiningme and uh, thank you so much.
And here's sister.

(37:47):
Live.
And.

(40:02):
And so we come to the end ofanother episode of Mikey PODD.
Thanks so much for joining me. Thank you,Caroline, for being on the show today.
Thank you. Gentle listeners and patrons.
Be sure to listen and check forthe, uh, bonus podcast this week.
And I think that's everything.I'll see you next week. Bye.