December 23, 2024 • 46 mins
Joe Hardin, known as Trail Tortoise Running, transforms personal struggles into inspiring narratives. Having overcome addiction and celebrated sobriety, Joe found solace in ultra running, allowing a deeper connection with nature and community. We explore his journey from battling personal demons to discovering the meditative power of running and the joy of storytelling.
Join us as we venture into the world of ultra marathons with Joe, where camaraderie and creativity reign. Music and craftsmanship reveal another side of Joe’s multifaceted life. We discuss his favorite albums of Radiohead's "Kid A" and a love for Queens of the Stone Age. Joe's passion for woodworking not only provides a creative outlet but also hints at a budding side business. Through storytelling, running, and artistry, Joe exemplifies how embracing multifaceted interests can lead to a fulfilling and enriched life.
Instagram:
@trail_tortoise_running
https://www.instagram.com/trail_tortoise_running?igsh=ajZ0OGFzYXZjcGh3
Shoutout to:
Joe Hardin
The Hardin Family
Run Tri Bike crew
Everyday podcast athlete network
Alter Ego Ambassador: https://alteregorunning.com/
Miles & Mountains Promo Code: Milesmountainsyr3
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Joe Harden.
How are you man?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hey, what's up?
Man Doing great.
I'm super stoked to be here.
You know, we've been chattingfor a little bit on Instagram
and I think we've been followingeach other for a little bit, so
it's rad to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
um, on this side of the mic too um, I'm just super
stoked to uh have this chat withyou yeah, yeah, yeah, in my
earbuds I have that song.
It's been a while, and it'sbeen a while since I've been
trying to get you on, so it'sbeen a while yeah, yeah, yeah.
So so you're man of many titles.
I've known you just for yoursocial media, because you
(01:05):
followed me, I follow you, I doa follow and you know, add
myself and whatever.
But I've known you for beingthe Trail Tortoise Running.
That's your tag.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
That's my running handle.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
And we'll get there.
So the many titles that youhave.
Yes, you're a tortoise runner.
You're an ultra runner.
I guess you're proud to be inthe back, which some people are,
and you boast about it.
Nothing bad about that.
You're a rider for RunTriMag,correct?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, runtrimag Mag runtrybikecom.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yep, yep, yep.
So shout out to those guys andthe team and most recently, man,
you became a podcast host.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Wild right.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah, yeah.
So you're the host of Beyondthe Finish Line and you do a
segment of what's in yourEarbuds.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, okay.
What's in your earbuds?
Yeah, okay, what's in yourearbuds is me and Om Gandhi's
baby.
Yeah, it was.
So I guess we'll back up to beon the finish line.
Maybe we can go back further toriding for run.
Try a bike, well.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I was just getting your mini titles, so, so let's
finish that first you have asegment.
What's in your earbuds besidesme and your podcast that you did
earlier today, right?
What's in your earbuds whenyou're working out?
Number one artist, go in yourear, but lately, earlier today.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Earlier today, um, I was listening to an audiobook,
uh, by a guy named eli elliotmasson.
I just interviewed him, uh, butmusic wise, it's going to be
really, really random, but Iusually go through like I mean,
I listen to everything.
It's like my spotify playlistis pretty confused right now but
(03:02):
I'll be fully honest with you.
I was listening to some reallyold school, uh mystical this
morning while I was running,which isn't my normal thing.
I'm like highland country, likeoutlaw country, yeah, like, uh,
cody james, why do you work inthe 78s?
Waylon jennings but randomlytoday I was doing like this
really hard treadmill workoutand I put on some some mystical
(03:25):
so mystical that watch yourselfright yeah.
I don't know why I did it, but Iwas like, all right, I'm here
for this.
It was a pretty hard workout,so it got me uh, kind of got me
fired up okay, along with thepodcast, you are a huge part of
the ever-growing network.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Everyday Athlete Podcast Network, correct.
Yeah yeah, so you're alwaysbusy.
You guys are busy, like I saidbefore, and kudos to all you
guys and keep it going for whatyou're doing, man, so keep going
.
So you had a segment Run, TryBike Mag.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, so I write monthly for Run, Try, Bike and
then.
I usually write about you knowrunning or variety or you know
whatever, and I guess, if youwant me to, I can kind of dive
into how that details, into the,the podcasting for the network,
if you want, yeah yeah, yeah,yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
I mean, dude, you, you started writing and then now
you got podcasts and you'restill writing.
So I mean dude, it just wentbigger to bigger and better
things now yeah, uh.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Well, it kind of started with reaching out to Run
Try Bike.
They had this little Instagrampost.
You know, we want to talk tothe everyday athlete and it's
kind of on a whim.
I was just like, well, I mean,that's a message to end up
turning into Om Gandhi, who's agood friend of mine now.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
I said, hey, I'm the everyday athlete.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And I felt like a good vibe about what I was
seeing with them, uh because uhand you'll hear them say this
all the time they are thepremier voice of the, of the
everyday athlete, and thatreally resonated with me.
And then something else theysaid is uh, and this is their
mantra now is there's a starting, there's a place in the
starting line for everybody andeverybody.
And that really stuck with meand I reached out to Run Try
(05:28):
Bike.
They were nice enough tointerview me.
They actually made me the coverstory of January 2024.
Nice, and next thing, I knowthey're asking me to write.
And that went well for a while.
And then I get this randomemail in the middle of the day
hey man, would you like to hosta podcast?
(05:48):
And that's just the wildestthing.
It doesn't feel real and I'mjust super happy for the
opportunity.
It's a labor of love.
I love talking to everydaypeople, I love getting to know
people.
Every time I get a chance tointerview somebody, I come away
(06:09):
with a different source ofinspiration, a deeper love for
fellow humans.
There's something beautifulabout as you know, nick diving
into people's stories.
Everybody has a story worthtelling, every single person.
I mean.
I love getting a chance to talkto the everyday people and tell
(06:31):
them and share their storiesand it's um, it fills my heart
every single um, every singletime I get a chance to do this
for the everyday ethic podcastnetwork.
It's, it's the labor of loveand we're going to continue to
grow and continue to tell thesegreat stories.
It's something I truly believein and I'm going to keep doing
it until it doesn't make senseanymore.
(06:54):
It's always going to make sense,man, it's always going to make
sense.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Trust me, it's always going to make sense.
So you're sharing stories Well.
Congrats, man.
You guys are doing a good job.
Keep it up.
Keep it up.
All right, the podcast what'sthe main huge difference between
writing and being behind a mic?
(07:19):
Besides, you know the audio.
What's the big difference, man?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
I think what I love about podcasting more than like
interviewing someone for a story, like writing a story is this
in real time.
You're like you're reallyseeing a side of someone you
know.
You know you're saying like agenuine person when you're
talking to them, especially when, especially when you hit them
with like a question they wereexpecting.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
And, like you know, especially if you show them that
you care about talking to thatperson when you see that light
bulb go off, like, oh man, likeyou did your homework, um, you
know, you actually care abouttalking to me when I see that
that light bulb go off in them,that just man, that brings me so
much joy and it's so fulfillingto see that it's like.
(08:07):
So I just like the idea of ofactually getting to know
somebody.
Maybe, you know, yeah, oh yeah,whether it be in podcast form
or talking to someone on, youknow, on the street.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
So yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's uplifting, man, for
it's rewarding for us andawesome for them.
Just to know that you knowpeople do pay attention and do
support them in any feat thatthey accomplished, or starting
or finishing, or you knowwhatnot out there.
Okay, yeah absolutely.
All right.
(08:39):
So, like I said, I've known youfor a trail, tortoise running.
Not a lot of people embracethat.
I know there's a podcast.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
You know chasing oh god, chasing cutoffs chasing
cutoffs.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I know that guy, very nice guy.
I haven't had him on but he hasa stellar podcast and, uh, he
calls him in back of the pack.
I don't believe him.
He's not very nice guy.
Met him on or at a race.
I blew out my ankle.
Hey, long story short.
Great guy, but why tortoiserunning?
(09:14):
I I know in my book I tellpeople, I tell people the
tortoise, one man beat the hair,you know yeah, because slow and
steady wins the race Right.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
That's right, man.
Um, where did it actually comefrom?
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Well, I mean, I'm, I'm slow, I mean, and I, and I'm
fine with that.
I learned very early on intrail running that I'm always in
the back of the pack.
Uh, middle of the back of thepack, middle of my best day,
right, um, and man, I'llprobably do it.
I'll probably, uh, dfl a raceman.
That's fun, um, being backthere, I call it the party pace,
(09:52):
um, and honestly, uh, I leaninto it.
It's my favorite place to be.
You hear all the good storiesback there.
You mean, I mean some, some ofthese people I meet in the back
of the pack I'm still friendswith and, honestly, the nickname
came from.
One day I was just likeslogging through my local trail
(10:12):
and I almost stepped on a turtleand I stopped and I was like oh
sorry, you know I'm not myself.
I talk to animals, Right.
I'm like oh sorry buddy and Ikind of scooted them off to this
off the trail a little bit, sonobody else would trample on
them.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
And while I was like moving, I was like man.
We're kind of the same, youknow, we're both moving kind of
slow.
We're both like eating, youknow eating plants and snacks
along the way.
And then that's where TrailTortoise Running came from.
I'm slow and it's my spiritanimal, like you said, slow and
steady.
I may be slow, but I'll getthere eventually.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Okay, but to embrace the slowest moving reptile?
Okay.
More power to you, man.
It's all good, dude, it's allgood.
So we talked about what you'redoing.
Now You're doing great things,sharing voices, sharing your
voice.
Of course.
I know you've done a fewpodcasts yourself and, uh, more
(11:12):
power to you.
So for my listeners and for me,how, when, what and why running
man, oh man all right, so he'shaving got plenty of time.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
How did it?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
start, man?
How did it start?
Why did you pick up you knowrunning shoes and just go on a
jog to begin with?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
And when did it?
Speaker 1 (11:34):
start.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Let's see, would you say, how.
So I guess let me preface thisconversation with I'm also sober
.
Going on five years, congratsEverything alcohol, drugs, all
of it and I lived that life fora very, very, very long time.
(11:57):
Most of my life I struggledwith addiction, substance abuse,
problems, and I was also veryyou know, I was very unhealthy.
I was, you know, you know, veryoverweight.
The lowest rock bottom.
(12:26):
I hit a lot of rock bottomsover the years.
The low just kept getting lower.
December 4, 2019, I hit my lastrock bottom.
I had a moment that I'm sure alot of fellow alcoholics and
recovering addicts can agreewith.
It was like a moment of clarity.
I know it sounds cliche and Ithought it was like a cliche
thing to say, but, man, it wasjust like a light bulb went off
that night.
I knew I was.
(12:47):
I knew I took my last drink.
I knew I didn't have any morerock bottoms left in me.
I knew that the way I wasliving my life was going to kill
me very quickly.
At that, I was going through mysecond divorce.
I divorced the mother of mykids.
First, I remarried to somebodythat maybe wasn't the healthiest
(13:10):
to be around in activeaddiction.
You know that ended up fallingapart when I got sober and, you
know, I worked my way throughsobriety.
I actually wound up mending myrelationship with the mother of
my children over the years.
(13:31):
We remarried last year, march31st which is a miracle, you
know, I get to.
I got my family back, you know,and that I, you know, I get to,
uh, I got my family back andI'm, you know, and that's a
really long story too.
So, uh, my first year, sobrietybirthday.
We, uh, we celebrate mysobriety birthday more than we
(13:51):
do my real birthday.
You know, I'm 40 somethingyears old.
We don't, we don't care aboutour birthdays 40 something.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
You know I'm 42, so yeah 42, yeah, 42 as well man,
uh.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
So we're out to eat.
We're celebrating my sobrietybirthday.
This is huge, right?
Um, I never thought I couldmake it a day without using uh
drugs or alcohol.
So a year is a lifetime.
Uh, the place where we'redining up at night there's a gym
right next door.
My wife goes to that gym.
Uh still does when at timesstill does.
She's like you know, for youruh sobriety birthday, we should
(14:25):
get you a gym membership.
And, like you know, I starteduh, after I quit drinking, I
lost some weight, I startedfeeling better and I was like
you know what, I'm ready to uh,to take that leap.
So I went in there that night.
I signed up for a gymmembership at the anytime
fitness um, karen left andchatted to John Santieri.
I've become really close withthe family that owns the gym.
(14:47):
I love them.
They've become a second familyto me.
Went like 5 am.
I was embarrassed to exercisein public.
Um, you know, I was in badshape and I would just do 30, 30
minute thing on a treadmill.
For the first six months Istarted feeling even better.
(15:08):
I started lifting weights.
I started feeling even better.
Um, I changed my diet, startedfeeling really, really good and
I, and one day I thought I sawthis flyer for a turkey trot.
It's a Thanksgiving 5k.
Um, here in town I still do itevery single year, I don't miss
it.
Um, and I pulled that littletag, you know, and I and I, I go
(15:30):
in, I my wife's getting readyfor work that morning I said do
you think it'd be like this wildidea to do a 5k in November?
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Uh, she's like no, that'd be great.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
You know.
So, uh, we trained together,that goes well, we run it
together.
It was awesome.
You know, like this huge thing,uh, 5k is still a big deal.
Don't ever let me, but don'tlet anybody take that away from
anybody who's striving for a 5k.
It's a big deal.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Yeah, still a scary distance to me.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
um right, it's fast, it's fast, right uh it's fast,
and I realized that after theevent was done I was like man,
that was cool, but I missed thattraining.
Um.
So you know, I that progressedto a half marathon and that that
really started getting likenuts and bolts of like long runs
, like speed work, and I waslike man.
I really really love trainingfor these things like.
(16:21):
To me, the event is just likekind of like the icing on top
and, um, I started learning alot about myself training.
Um, uh, I didn't know there wasa world outside of road races
at the time.
Uh, so I, though I've dove intolonger distance.
I looked at like marathons fora while and I just like just
(16:42):
felt like something was missingwith that distance.
It just never appealed to meand I'm kind of, uh, what's that
?
The camaraderie?
yeah uh, and that's, and that'swhat I think it was lacking.
You know, I'm not.
If road running is your thing,that's great.
I think it was lacking.
If road running is your thing,that's great.
I think there's a community foreverybody.
You're right.
But yeah, I'm scrolling throughYouTube and I found this video
(17:06):
by Billy Yang called A Day inthe Life, and I was just like,
wait, people run in the woods.
I grew up in the woods, mywhole family hunted and all that
stuff, and people run 100 miles.
This is wild to me, um.
So as I, as I've heard someonesay, I drank the kool-aid.
(17:26):
You know, I went, I went all in, uh, I signed up for, so
basically, I skipped halfmarathon, I skipped marathon
distance, I went from halfmarathon to 50k.
Uh, trail run and uh, a lot ofpeople do, and and uh, the rest
is history.
You know, I've been working myway up through some mileage and
we can dive into that later ifyou want, but that's the start
(17:48):
of my running journey.
It's, it's became more to methan just exercise.
It transcends exercise.
To me now, it's a way of life,it's meditation, it's um, and
running, running ultra, is likeexperiencing the woods, like
that is is spiritual, it'smeditation, it's healing, it's
(18:08):
exercise is just a you know acool side effect of all that
right it's community, like it'sso much bigger than, um, what I
could ever imagine becoming tome.
You know not to get too far offin the weeds with that, but
that's you know.
That's my running journey.
I went full in like I, like Iwould with anything I'm, you
(18:29):
know yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
So a lot of people, like a lot of the the clowns on
social media, would say, well,you went from one addiction to
the next.
I've heard that too.
You know what I mean, and it'slike I just give them a bird.
Okay, and so what about running?
Did you try bike biking?
(18:53):
Do you try anything else?
What?
What did running bring to youat that moment when you knew
deep down like, holy crap, man,this is what I want.
Like why running?
Why not cycling?
Why not just be a gym ratlifting weights?
You know trying to, you know bethe physique guy, or you know
bulk up power lifting, you knowyou could.
You have so many other choices,but why running?
(19:14):
I think.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
I mean, that's a.
I could tie a lot of thingsinto that.
First of all, I love theoutdoors, and that took me a
while to do.
But I thought deeply about this.
There's something, there'ssomething my way through this
like kind of switchbacky singletrack trail a few weeks ago and
(19:42):
I and I it was just like me,alone with my thoughts, um, just
like the sound of my feet kindof shuffling through the foliage
, and it was like this, likesynergy that I was like creating
, and I just don't think that Icould ever find anything like
that that gives me that, um,that moment.
Because you know, I spend mywhole life, even now, I'm always
(20:03):
kind of, uh, daydreaming about,like what's to come or like
things that I've done, and I'malways kind of in that limbo for
some reason.
And trail running it forces meto be present and, um, I can't
find anything else that gets meto that point, and I think
that's why I keep chasing theselonger distances.
You know, it's like you'represent and I'm always, you're
(20:26):
always kind of learningsomething new about yourself
every time you take them like alonger distance, and there's
always something you can takeaway.
Even if it doesn't go right.
Someone could go terribly, anultra could go terribly, and
I'll still learn from that.
All right, okay.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Your mission now Sober, sharing stories, paying
it forward.
Dude, that's awesome.
Keep it up, man.
What's next?
You said you're always thinkingwhat's next, what's next, man?
Because I always think I'mlike'm like, okay, right now.
You know, I had twoback-to-back multiple day races
(21:05):
that I had to decline because ofmy foot right.
It's always something, it'salways something.
So I'm always like all right,can I try this mountain?
Can I just walk the mountain?
You know, trek the mountain,the mountain.
I'm like I need to get out.
So I know what you're goingthrough.
So what is next for you?
I know you have a hundred milercoming up right, or a hundred K
(21:26):
.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
A hundred miles yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yeah, yeah.
So so what is next for youbesides that?
What, what, what goes throughyour mind Just trying to fulfill
that void, that that need toget the miles in to feel present
?
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Uh, um well, there's a couple of things outside of
just running.
Uh, I'm diving deeper in thecommunity.
Um that's something else that'skind of been coming up.
I realized that I take a lotfrom the sport, so I'm trying to
give back um the best and themost that I can.
So I've been diving deeper intolike networking and growing
(22:08):
like kind of like a trail family, and I think that's really
important.
I guess I just want toemphasize that.
And as far as races go, I'vegot a 12-hour and a backyard
coming up, but I'm kind of goingto use those for tune-ups for
100-miler.
Just more riding, morepodcasting.
(22:28):
We're really pushing to seewhere I can take my riding and
we're trying to grow that.
And then man, just kind ofeyeing the prize for the 100
miler and I'm stoked, I feelgood.
I went through a little injuryproblem too.
(22:49):
A couple weeks ago I did a24-hour event.
I probably shouldn't havepushed as hard as I did, but
that's kind of mended up.
And I guess I'll say this outloud, I'll be fully transparent.
I'm using the 100 miler forsomething bigger and if I say it
out loud, I'm committed to it.
(23:09):
So my plan is to go for theOregon 200 in 2025.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
2025 because 2024 is canceled because of the smoke.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
I don't know what that's going to do for next year
.
My plan is to reach out to themand make sure.
If not, I understand.
So maybe I'll find a 200 milesomewhere else, but I really
Nebraska Cowboy 200 is a goodone is it a good one okay?
Speaker 1 (23:42):
it's a good one, it's flatter, it's flatter, it's a
lot flatter.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
So, yeah, I mean that's.
I'm just trying to, you know,grow my role in uh, trail
running more.
Uh, maybe not.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
That doesn't always mean mileage, that could be,
yeah, like I got you diving deepin the community well, you're
doing it, man, you're doing it,dude, you're doing it by the
podcast, the writing, just youbeing present, you know, not
just here, but sharing otherstories.
You know, oh, oh, oregon, 200,man, that's a, that's brutal,
(24:18):
have you?
Have you been over here inthese parts?
Speaker 2 (24:21):
not in a long time, but, uh, I don't know what it is
.
It's, uh, why that number isreally sticking out to me right
now, but it's like I've got toat least try right like yeah
yeah I mean if I, if it doesn'tgo well, like, maybe I'll get a
few cool days in the mountains,I guess.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
So yeah, yeah, hurtful days, correct, and have
you done the a backyard yet?
Speaker 2 (24:43):
I've done.
This will be my third, third,fourth, third, backyard yeah
okay.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
And do you have a crew?
It's all about the crew.
Do you have a career?
Do you do it alone?
Speaker 2 (24:54):
I usually do it a lot .
Well, I don't have a crew, butI usually do it with a buddy of
mine.
I met my buddy, eric, at myfirst backyard, and this will
tell you a lot about backyards,right, I guess, for anybody who
doesn't know what a backyard is.
It's a 4.167-mile loop on thehour, every hour.
It's the brainchild of thegreat Ladris Lake, gary
(25:20):
Cantrellll, and you get one hourto do that loop and if you
don't make it, you're out.
Um, it's kind of like a runclub vibe.
It's, uh, I, I still talk toeverybody.
I still talk to people fromevery backyard.
I've ever done so.
Uh, this year I'm linking upwith my buddy eric.
(25:41):
We did, we've done some stufftogether um, my buddy cameron
balzer shout out to cameronbalzer he just completed, uh, a
run around the entire country,the united states of america, 12
100 miles around the country.
He'll be there.
So it's going to kind of belike a little like a little
reunion at this backyard, nice.
So, yeah, I'm really fired up.
(26:02):
I don't know what kind ofdistance I'm gonna do yet since,
uh, it'll be like a monthbefore my hundred miler, um, so
I don't know, I'll just run withmy heart and see uh, I'll
probably.
Maybe I'll piss off my runcoach if I run too too far, but
we'll see.
I'll ask for forgiveness if Igo too far so it's all about the
crew.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Man bet, the person with the best crew normally goes
the farthest.
So another thing is, if you douh backyards by yourself, the
best, the best way to, I guess,make it as far if you're alone.
Organization I see some crazyorganization for, you know, for
(26:44):
runners and everything, the bestorganized runner I've seen.
Instead of using boxes toorganize their stuff, they use
the plastic shoe uh shoe rackthat you can put on the backside
of a door.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Hey, telling you best way to do it.
Best way to do it, man.
So just FYI, giving you alittle pointer man, I love
backyards, I love backyards, andI definitely like to do the
ruck backyard more though,because it's just.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Oh, where's it.
So where's that at?
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Uh, there's some in, uh, washington, okay.
Uh, in Spokane area though.
Yeah, the, the, the, the, the,the, the, the, the, the, the.
The weighs a buck, 30, 25pounds.
If you weigh two bucks and 30or a little less, or anything
above 175, 180, you have to havelike 30 something pounds.
(27:48):
Man, it's, it's a difference,it's a difference I'll check
that out.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
That sounds like fun, though what like?
How long's the the loot?
The same, the same amount okayI think's a backyard, I think
it's.
I think it's silver.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
I think it's silver.
I think it's a silver.
Uh, backyard, I think, yeah,there's bronze silver and gold.
Uh, I know that's how they ratethem um oh, yeah, yeah, I can.
I can give you, uh, more inputafterwards, but yeah, I've done
it a couple of times, man.
So when you are running andfueling, what's your go-to fuel?
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Well, I've talked about this a lot, but usually,
and shout out to smokers andsend trustables, man, I love
them.
Trustables, that is.
That's, that's nutrition of thechampables man.
I love Uncrustables.
That is nutrition of the champsman.
I love Uncrustables.
I love those little mini Clifbars too, the little peanut
(28:49):
butter ones like 100 calories.
Black Forest gummies with thejuice in the middle.
I love those and I really love.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
I'm not a big fan of, like the goose or like yeah,
same awesome sauce or whatever.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
You know that whole debacle.
Um, I'm really into these mamachia chia seed packets it's like
a blackberry jam with, like,hydrated chia seeds on them, and
I love those.
They're always easy on thestomach.
This isn't, like you know, areigning endorsement, but that's
just one of my favorite.
Uh, if they wanted, if theywould ever uh, give me a
(29:26):
sponsorship, I would certainlyback that brand.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
But that's one of my favorite goats yeah, my goatee
is scratch.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
I love scratch and the the drink is so good like
yeah, um, I forgot, I likeforgot to throw some like
tailwind in my, in one of mymodels that one of my last
ultras and I was just likewhat's that?
Like scratch, you know I can't.
It was like the mandarin orangeor something right, I mean, it
was so good like honestly, itworks I might.
(29:53):
Yeah I, I no shame in that gameI might have to make the switch
to scratch because it wasphenomenal.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, soyou said Uncrustables.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Everybody knows my listeners know about
Uncrustables.
It's the lazy man way, but it'seffective, so I get it.
But when you do, I know duringyour lifetime, I know my
lifetime, and now up till now, Istill eat peanut butter jelly
sandwiches.
Do you eat peanut butter jellysandwiches besides Uncrustables?
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
So when you have time , you know, sit down, have a
dinner, a PBJ dinner, Justjoking.
By the way, how do you build apeanut butter jelly sandwich?
Matt?
Speaker 2 (30:37):
I usually do.
I usually like to do peanutbutter on one slice and jelly on
the other and then smash themtogether.
But I like to leave the cruston.
And crustable is just like youknow, it's like real handy, it's
like all ready to go.
But on the crust on, yeah,spread on both sides and mash
together what's the ratio?
(30:59):
I try to not go real heavy onlike.
I try to go real heavy on likethe jelly ass side of it, but
like for the peanut butter like.
I'll put like a three-eighthsslab of like peanut butter on
that side and just like coverlike 80 of the middle of the
(31:20):
other slice.
Okay.
All right, that's a reallyspecific breakdown, but I don't
want too much jelly.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Hey, I totally get it , and you won't believe what
I've heard on how people buildtheir peanut butter jelly
sandwich.
It's quite fascinating.
Yeah, yesterday blew my mind, orthe other day blew my mind,
rodeo athlete.
She said that you know she, shemakes them, but she puts them
in little squares.
(31:48):
She cuts them up in littlesquares and puts them in a
Ziploc bag, so when she's hungryshe just eats it like a snack.
I'm like what that's out of twohundred and thirty two episodes
.
You know, this one gal justblew my mind.
I mean, I've heard sourdough,I've heard tortilla, I've heard
some amazing peanut butterjellies.
(32:08):
You know how to make it, butthis one was like weird, you
know, I'm like what.
I can't do that to my peanutbutter jelly sandwich because I
don't.
I don't think it's feeling, youknow, but that's her way of
doing it.
You know she's also a model, sothat explains it all.
You know.
But that's her way of doing it.
You know she's also a model, sothat explains it all, you know.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
I can almost appreciate the commitment to
that, though like toindividually cut it all up.
So All right.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
So that that's OK, that's the way you go.
I like more peanut butter jelly, so I appreciate you sharing
that.
Man, I do, I do, all right, sodo you.
I drive my wife crazy becausewhen I listen to music, I have
to listen to albums.
I don't listen to playlists.
I don't listen to some randomlike 1990s rock, rap, whatever I
(32:57):
have to listen to albums.
I drive her crazy, right?
Do you listen to albums or youjust listen to playlists?
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Kind of depends on the artist too, I guess as well.
I'll start with that.
But I mean, honestly, I'm Ihate to admit it, but I, you
know I spent I can't tell youthe last time I listened to like
this like a full, full album,oh my God.
Like I said, it depends on theartist, but I'm a playlist guy.
Now it's like I need, I justneed like little, like tidbits
(33:27):
out of each album and createlike a greater playlist.
But yeah, it's, it's hard.
It's like we live in such likea like a quick world with like
reels.
It's like you just want likethe best of this, the best of
that.
So I'll admit I've gotten awayfrom listening to whole albums
okay, so I got a couplequestions for you, man.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
When was the last time you actually listened to a
full album front to back dude?
Speaker 2 (33:57):
oh, probably about a month ago, I listened the to the
entire Kid, a album byRadiohead.
I love Radiohead.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Oh, radiohead's good.
The old stuff is good.
The new stuff is just like ohGod, what are you trying to do?
It's almost like Modest Mouse.
You know, their old stuff isjust phenomenal.
It's just like, oh my God,where is that?
And then they went to the newage sound.
I'm like radio head.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Uh, a lot of smiles, yes, so kid a all right, okay,
favorite album of all time, ohno, uh, it's weird because it's
not like my favorite artist, but, um, and it's for reasons so
before me and my wife had kids,we used to, you know, take a lot
of trips together, road tripsand stuff, uh, and we always had
like this road playlist andthere's this, uh, live oar album
(34:48):
that we used to listen to allthe time and I had on cd.
Like one of my friends left thedouble disc cd in the car.
This is when you still had cds,like it was in a big, that big
book, you know?
hey, I still have cds, don'tknock it yeah it's like a, it's
like live at red rocks orsomething by oar.
Yeah, and me and my wife wouldlisten to that album the entire,
(35:09):
the entire road trips.
And it's like I said, oar isnot like.
I like oa at r, like I kind oflike I'm like you know, I like
dad rock, I like jam bands soit's not my favorite artist, but
it's my favorite album.
That like life of the.
I like jam bands, so it's notmy favorite artist, but it's my
favorite album.
That like life of the red rocksI think it's what it's called,
or it's called like here and nowby OAR.
I wish I could remember thename of the album right now, but
it's so damn good from beginlike start to finish, so that's
(35:33):
my favorite album of all timebecause it's like a nostalgia.
Yeah, there's a lot of memoriesyeah, memories, you remember.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
You know there's tons of albums of me thinking like,
okay, where was I when I firstwas on?
Yeah, I was here there and inbetween.
Yes, yes, yes, favorite artistsof all time, even your go-to
artists.
Like it never fails, dude, whenyou put it on your playlist,
you know it's going to be a goodone I am a huge queens of stone
(36:05):
age fan.
I saw that I saw that man.
That's another eclectic sound.
I just have not been a fan.
I'm a huge fan of foo fighters.
I know they're friends, butit's just like ah, that's just.
I'm not a fan of theirs.
But okay, queen of Stone Age,okay.
Yeah yeah, All right all right.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yeah, it's like it's not for everybody.
I can understand that, but Idon't know what it is.
I just love.
I just always loved Queen ofStone Age.
Like it grew on me as I gotolder too.
It's like, ah, it's just sogood.
Like it ages so well.
Like, like ages so well, likethey always age so well with
their music.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
So Okay, I gotcha, I gotcha Song that you must have
in your hundred miler coming up.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Okay, this has been a absolute like.
I've got like a rescue playlistthat I listened to when I'm
running through the woods andthere's a song called black
critic by Brent Cobb that has tobe on my hundred mile playlist,
absolutely has to be on my 100mile playlist.
Absolutely has to be on thatplaylist, man, I could listen
like if I'm going dark on atrail, like on an ultra.
I'll just put that on repeat.
(37:09):
I don't know, it's just like ah, that song just gets me every
time and it's like it can onlydo that when I'm in the woods
and I'm suffering really bad.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
When you have downtime, whenever.
That is because I know you andI have similar schedules a bit.
You know, when you havedowntime, what do you do for fun
?
Don't say run either.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
People say that it's like are you kidding me.
Well, it's weird because it'sbecome more of like a side
business now, on accident, butfor fun.
I am crazy about woodworking.
I love hand tool woodworking.
I love woodturning, I loveteaching woodturning to other
people.
That's something that we'vebeen me and a business partner
(37:58):
hopefully a business partnerI've been kind of planning and
trying to see if we're going toget work.
Um, like I said, uh,woodworking, woodworking has
become a side business for me.
I also in my fun time now makeuh finisher medals for a lot of
trail races, uh I saw thatbeautiful one.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
I like that, so thank you what's that?
You made that hand saw one, ohno no, that was.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Uh, that was my dfl prize at my 100k I draw across
that finish line, uh.
So, yeah, something, somethingI do for fun.
It's become almost a businesson accident, but it's still
something I really love to do.
Um, I love creating.
I would like to sometimes callmyself an artist, but, uh, you
(38:49):
know, imposter syndrome is whatit is, so I don't really feel
like I earned that title yet,but I'm working on my craft
artists are everywhere, man.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Whether you run, you write podcasts.
Come on, man yeah, true yeahall different types.
Okay, all right.
So when you do have downtime,my downtime is watching movies,
all right, I I lost touchbecause dude streaming is ruin
cinema.
Hate it, hate it Okay.
(39:22):
So there's certain kinds ofmovies, but there's one actor
that I always have to know Cause, you know, for the guys that
come on, I always have to knowtheir personality.
So I have to ask you manfavorite Adam Sandler movie?
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Well, all right, it's Billy Madison.
Come on, it's so, it's billymadison come on it's so it's so
good.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Okay, so the original ones yeah, I love that movie.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
I'll still watch it.
You can't, you can't outgrowbilly madison.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
If you do, you're taking yourself too seriously,
right, he called the shit poop,yeah, yeah stop looking at me,
swan yeah, yeah, exactly that'smy go-to man.
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
Okay, favorite movie of all time oh man, I gotta ask
this recently.
Uh well, and it's weird becauseit's also because I it's a
thing I share with my wife,shawshank redemption.
We always make it a point towatch that movie together.
I don't know if I can watch itwithout her.
It'd be weird.
So I think Shawshank Redemption, I've got a lot of like
(40:30):
favorite movies, like of acertain genre, but I think
Shawshank Redemption is myfavorite movie of all time.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
All time Okay, all right.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Comedy all right, comedy, then go comedy.
Oh uh, yeah, what's that,what's?
Speaker 1 (40:49):
that my favorite comedy?
Oh wow, uh, probably billymadison.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Uh, yeah, yeah, it's so damn funny, uh or uh,
pineapple express, actually, letme say that for favorite comedy
.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
That's one of my favorites man yeah, yeah.
And then there's other guys ohyeah, oh yeah.
Sometimes.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Yeah, I love Talladega Nights, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Okay, all right, man.
Well, dude, I don't know.
We can keep going and going.
I appreciate your time, I knowyou're busy and everything else,
but would you like to addanything?
Did I miss anything?
Speaker 2 (41:31):
No, I think you captured it well.
I you know, I guess, maybe,maybe, if I could leave some
like closing of advice, wouldn'tit be okay?
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
And this is something that Ihave to remind myself all the
time and I always like to saydon't be afraid to say yes to
(41:53):
scary things.
I think that's a big thing,right, sign up for the thing
that scares you and just get outthere and do it.
It doesn't have to look pretty,it doesn't have to look pretty,
it doesn't have to be perfect.
It's all about progress.
I've learned a big thing thatstands in my own way is myself.
So I just want to, I just wantto you know, share that what I'm
(42:16):
kind of, what I'm learningabout myself as I go.
Just get out of your own wayand get after the scary stuff,
don't you know?
Don't be afraid to say yes andon yourself, that's.
That's just something I want to.
I got to get out All right.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Well, thank you, and forgot to add one thing the
artistry, artistry.
Right, I had a.
I have a buddy of mine, theonly guy that I talked to out of
the Army, the only guy that Italked to.
I don't speak of it, don'treally highlight it, you know,
yes, I am a veteran, but he did.
He turned into woodworking andturning and everything else, and
(42:55):
it was kind of interestingbecause he lives on the
peninsula, right outside ofTacoma, right, he would look at
trees a lot differently than Iwould, right, and so anytime we
came to a tree that had cancer,right, he'd be like, oh my God,
I want that, I want that.
(43:15):
So my question to you this is agood question about artistry
and everything else.
Are you one of those guys thatwhen you see a cancerous tree
you're like dude?
I want to turn that.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
Oh yeah, my wife, every time I go for a walk
there's this tree just in thispark by us.
It's got this huge burl on itand it's like I want to like.
She's like no, you can't cutthat.
Like I'm not gonna go cut theburl off the tree.
It's like I bet it's like a 200pound burl.
Yeah, and it's maple, so mapleburl looks crazy when you turn
(43:50):
it and like add a little, add alittle uh, oil to it, the
character in that.
I mean it turns like powder.
But if you can get it turnedand in one piece and a little
bit of linseed oil, oh it'spretty well turned Burl is a
thing of absolute beauty.
Yeah, you guys are different.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
And you guys are a different breed.
Yeah, to see this guy whodoesn't even do a lick of stuff,
you know, and just get you knowjust high and just drool over
this bump in a tree, a tumor ina tree, guys, if you guys don't
know what I'm talking about,it's just a bump in a tree, an
odd bump cancerous tumor of atree and he just at odd with it.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
So man, I, I get it.
Man, I totally understand yourfriend.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Yes, and I totally understand what you're going
through too, man, with yourstory.
I appreciate you sharing, notjust here but everywhere else,
and sharing online threads.
And you know the new thread.
I'm not a fan of it.
I'm not because a lot of peoplethere's a lot of bs in there
but I saw yours and I was justlike man.
This guy's opening up and ittakes a lot of balls, takes a
(45:04):
lot of balls, man and uh.
But you're there, you'rehealthy, mentally, physically,
emotionally, dude.
You got what it takes to carryon your story others.
So, without further ado, man, Iappreciate your time and what
you do for the community.
Continue sharing stories,whether it's yours and others.
(45:27):
Thank you for helping othersfind their voice.
Until next time, please comeagain.
You're always welcomed, thankyou.
Joe Harden.
How are you man?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hey, what's up?
Man Doing great.
I'm super stoked to be here.
You know, we've been chattingfor a little bit on Instagram
and I think we've been followingeach other for a little bit, so
it's rad to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
um, on this side of the mic too um, I'm just super
stoked to uh have this chat withyou yeah, yeah, yeah, in my
earbuds I have that song.
It's been a while, and it'sbeen a while since I've been
trying to get you on, so it'sbeen a while yeah, yeah, yeah.
So so you're man of many titles.
I've known you just for yoursocial media, because you
(01:05):
followed me, I follow you, I doa follow and you know, add
myself and whatever.
But I've known you for beingthe Trail Tortoise Running.
That's your tag.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
That's my running handle.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
And we'll get there.
So the many titles that youhave.
Yes, you're a tortoise runner.
You're an ultra runner.
I guess you're proud to be inthe back, which some people are,
and you boast about it.
Nothing bad about that.
You're a rider for RunTriMag,correct?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yeah, runtrimag Mag runtrybikecom.
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yep, yep, yep.
So shout out to those guys andthe team and most recently, man,
you became a podcast host.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Wild right.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah, yeah.
So you're the host of Beyondthe Finish Line and you do a
segment of what's in yourEarbuds.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Yeah, okay.
What's in your earbuds?
Yeah, okay, what's in yourearbuds is me and Om Gandhi's
baby.
Yeah, it was.
So I guess we'll back up to beon the finish line.
Maybe we can go back further toriding for run.
Try a bike, well.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I was just getting your mini titles, so, so let's
finish that first you have asegment.
What's in your earbuds besidesme and your podcast that you did
earlier today, right?
What's in your earbuds whenyou're working out?
Number one artist, go in yourear, but lately, earlier today.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Earlier today, um, I was listening to an audiobook,
uh, by a guy named eli elliotmasson.
I just interviewed him, uh, butmusic wise, it's going to be
really, really random, but Iusually go through like I mean,
I listen to everything.
It's like my spotify playlistis pretty confused right now but
(03:02):
I'll be fully honest with you.
I was listening to some reallyold school, uh mystical this
morning while I was running,which isn't my normal thing.
I'm like highland country, likeoutlaw country, yeah, like, uh,
cody james, why do you work inthe 78s?
Waylon jennings but randomlytoday I was doing like this
really hard treadmill workoutand I put on some some mystical
(03:25):
so mystical that watch yourselfright yeah.
I don't know why I did it, but Iwas like, all right, I'm here
for this.
It was a pretty hard workout,so it got me uh, kind of got me
fired up okay, along with thepodcast, you are a huge part of
the ever-growing network.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Everyday Athlete Podcast Network, correct.
Yeah yeah, so you're alwaysbusy.
You guys are busy, like I saidbefore, and kudos to all you
guys and keep it going for whatyou're doing, man, so keep going
.
So you had a segment Run, TryBike Mag.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, so I write monthly for Run, Try, Bike and
then.
I usually write about you knowrunning or variety or you know
whatever, and I guess, if youwant me to, I can kind of dive
into how that details, into the,the podcasting for the network,
if you want, yeah yeah, yeah,yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
I mean, dude, you, you started writing and then now
you got podcasts and you'restill writing.
So I mean dude, it just wentbigger to bigger and better
things now yeah, uh.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Well, it kind of started with reaching out to Run
Try Bike.
They had this little Instagrampost.
You know, we want to talk tothe everyday athlete and it's
kind of on a whim.
I was just like, well, I mean,that's a message to end up
turning into Om Gandhi, who's agood friend of mine now.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
I said, hey, I'm the everyday athlete.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
And I felt like a good vibe about what I was
seeing with them, uh because uhand you'll hear them say this
all the time they are thepremier voice of the, of the
everyday athlete, and thatreally resonated with me.
And then something else theysaid is uh, and this is their
mantra now is there's a starting, there's a place in the
starting line for everybody andeverybody.
And that really stuck with meand I reached out to Run Try
(05:28):
Bike.
They were nice enough tointerview me.
They actually made me the coverstory of January 2024.
Nice, and next thing, I knowthey're asking me to write.
And that went well for a while.
And then I get this randomemail in the middle of the day
hey man, would you like to hosta podcast?
(05:48):
And that's just the wildestthing.
It doesn't feel real and I'mjust super happy for the
opportunity.
It's a labor of love.
I love talking to everydaypeople, I love getting to know
people.
Every time I get a chance tointerview somebody, I come away
(06:09):
with a different source ofinspiration, a deeper love for
fellow humans.
There's something beautifulabout as you know, nick diving
into people's stories.
Everybody has a story worthtelling, every single person.
I mean.
I love getting a chance to talkto the everyday people and tell
(06:31):
them and share their storiesand it's um, it fills my heart
every single um, every singletime I get a chance to do this
for the everyday ethic podcastnetwork.
It's, it's the labor of loveand we're going to continue to
grow and continue to tell thesegreat stories.
It's something I truly believein and I'm going to keep doing
it until it doesn't make senseanymore.
(06:54):
It's always going to make sense,man, it's always going to make
sense.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Trust me, it's always going to make sense.
So you're sharing stories Well.
Congrats, man.
You guys are doing a good job.
Keep it up.
Keep it up.
All right, the podcast what'sthe main huge difference between
writing and being behind a mic?
(07:19):
Besides, you know the audio.
What's the big difference, man?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
I think what I love about podcasting more than like
interviewing someone for a story, like writing a story is this
in real time.
You're like you're reallyseeing a side of someone you
know.
You know you're saying like agenuine person when you're
talking to them, especially when, especially when you hit them
with like a question they wereexpecting.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
And, like you know, especially if you show them that
you care about talking to thatperson when you see that light
bulb go off, like, oh man, likeyou did your homework, um, you
know, you actually care abouttalking to me when I see that
that light bulb go off in them,that just man, that brings me so
much joy and it's so fulfillingto see that it's like.
(08:07):
So I just like the idea of ofactually getting to know
somebody.
Maybe, you know, yeah, oh yeah,whether it be in podcast form
or talking to someone on, youknow, on the street.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
So yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's uplifting, man, for
it's rewarding for us andawesome for them.
Just to know that you knowpeople do pay attention and do
support them in any feat thatthey accomplished, or starting
or finishing, or you knowwhatnot out there.
Okay, yeah absolutely.
All right.
(08:39):
So, like I said, I've known youfor a trail, tortoise running.
Not a lot of people embracethat.
I know there's a podcast.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
You know chasing oh god, chasing cutoffs chasing
cutoffs.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I know that guy, very nice guy.
I haven't had him on but he hasa stellar podcast and, uh, he
calls him in back of the pack.
I don't believe him.
He's not very nice guy.
Met him on or at a race.
I blew out my ankle.
Hey, long story short.
Great guy, but why tortoiserunning?
(09:14):
I I know in my book I tellpeople, I tell people the
tortoise, one man beat the hair,you know yeah, because slow and
steady wins the race Right.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
That's right, man.
Um, where did it actually comefrom?
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Well, I mean, I'm, I'm slow, I mean, and I, and I'm
fine with that.
I learned very early on intrail running that I'm always in
the back of the pack.
Uh, middle of the back of thepack, middle of my best day,
right, um, and man, I'llprobably do it.
I'll probably, uh, dfl a raceman.
That's fun, um, being backthere, I call it the party pace,
(09:52):
um, and honestly, uh, I leaninto it.
It's my favorite place to be.
You hear all the good storiesback there.
You mean, I mean some, some ofthese people I meet in the back
of the pack I'm still friendswith and, honestly, the nickname
came from.
One day I was just likeslogging through my local trail
(10:12):
and I almost stepped on a turtleand I stopped and I was like oh
sorry, you know I'm not myself.
I talk to animals, Right.
I'm like oh sorry buddy and Ikind of scooted them off to this
off the trail a little bit, sonobody else would trample on
them.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
And while I was like moving, I was like man.
We're kind of the same, youknow, we're both moving kind of
slow.
We're both like eating, youknow eating plants and snacks
along the way.
And then that's where TrailTortoise Running came from.
I'm slow and it's my spiritanimal, like you said, slow and
steady.
I may be slow, but I'll getthere eventually.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Okay, but to embrace the slowest moving reptile?
Okay.
More power to you, man.
It's all good, dude, it's allgood.
So we talked about what you'redoing.
Now You're doing great things,sharing voices, sharing your
voice.
Of course.
I know you've done a fewpodcasts yourself and, uh, more
(11:12):
power to you.
So for my listeners and for me,how, when, what and why running
man, oh man all right, so he'shaving got plenty of time.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
How did it?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
start, man?
How did it start?
Why did you pick up you knowrunning shoes and just go on a
jog to begin with?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
And when did it?
Speaker 1 (11:34):
start.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Let's see, would you say, how.
So I guess let me preface thisconversation with I'm also sober
.
Going on five years, congratsEverything alcohol, drugs, all
of it and I lived that life fora very, very, very long time.
(11:57):
Most of my life I struggledwith addiction, substance abuse,
problems, and I was also veryyou know, I was very unhealthy.
I was, you know, you know, veryoverweight.
The lowest rock bottom.
(12:26):
I hit a lot of rock bottomsover the years.
The low just kept getting lower.
December 4, 2019, I hit my lastrock bottom.
I had a moment that I'm sure alot of fellow alcoholics and
recovering addicts can agreewith.
It was like a moment of clarity.
I know it sounds cliche and Ithought it was like a cliche
thing to say, but, man, it wasjust like a light bulb went off
that night.
I knew I was.
(12:47):
I knew I took my last drink.
I knew I didn't have any morerock bottoms left in me.
I knew that the way I wasliving my life was going to kill
me very quickly.
At that, I was going through mysecond divorce.
I divorced the mother of mykids.
First, I remarried to somebodythat maybe wasn't the healthiest
(13:10):
to be around in activeaddiction.
You know that ended up fallingapart when I got sober and, you
know, I worked my way throughsobriety.
I actually wound up mending myrelationship with the mother of
my children over the years.
(13:31):
We remarried last year, march31st which is a miracle, you
know, I get to.
I got my family back, you know,and that I, you know, I get to,
uh, I got my family back andI'm, you know, and that's a
really long story too.
So, uh, my first year, sobrietybirthday.
We, uh, we celebrate mysobriety birthday more than we
(13:51):
do my real birthday.
You know, I'm 40 somethingyears old.
We don't, we don't care aboutour birthdays 40 something.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
You know I'm 42, so yeah 42, yeah, 42 as well man,
uh.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
So we're out to eat.
We're celebrating my sobrietybirthday.
This is huge, right?
Um, I never thought I couldmake it a day without using uh
drugs or alcohol.
So a year is a lifetime.
Uh, the place where we'redining up at night there's a gym
right next door.
My wife goes to that gym.
Uh still does when at timesstill does.
She's like you know, for youruh sobriety birthday, we should
(14:25):
get you a gym membership.
And, like you know, I starteduh, after I quit drinking, I
lost some weight, I startedfeeling better and I was like
you know what, I'm ready to uh,to take that leap.
So I went in there that night.
I signed up for a gymmembership at the anytime
fitness um, karen left andchatted to John Santieri.
I've become really close withthe family that owns the gym.
(14:47):
I love them.
They've become a second familyto me.
Went like 5 am.
I was embarrassed to exercisein public.
Um, you know, I was in badshape and I would just do 30, 30
minute thing on a treadmill.
For the first six months Istarted feeling even better.
(15:08):
I started lifting weights.
I started feeling even better.
Um, I changed my diet, startedfeeling really, really good and
I, and one day I thought I sawthis flyer for a turkey trot.
It's a Thanksgiving 5k.
Um, here in town I still do itevery single year, I don't miss
it.
Um, and I pulled that littletag, you know, and I and I, I go
(15:30):
in, I my wife's getting readyfor work that morning I said do
you think it'd be like this wildidea to do a 5k in November?
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Uh, she's like no, that'd be great.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
You know.
So, uh, we trained together,that goes well, we run it
together.
It was awesome.
You know, like this huge thing,uh, 5k is still a big deal.
Don't ever let me, but don'tlet anybody take that away from
anybody who's striving for a 5k.
It's a big deal.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Yeah, still a scary distance to me.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
um right, it's fast, it's fast, right uh it's fast,
and I realized that after theevent was done I was like man,
that was cool, but I missed thattraining.
Um.
So you know, I that progressedto a half marathon and that that
really started getting likenuts and bolts of like long runs
, like speed work, and I waslike man.
I really really love trainingfor these things like.
(16:21):
To me, the event is just likekind of like the icing on top
and, um, I started learning alot about myself training.
Um, uh, I didn't know there wasa world outside of road races
at the time.
Uh, so I, though I've dove intolonger distance.
I looked at like marathons fora while and I just like just
(16:42):
felt like something was missingwith that distance.
It just never appealed to meand I'm kind of, uh, what's that
?
The camaraderie?
yeah uh, and that's, and that'swhat I think it was lacking.
You know, I'm not.
If road running is your thing,that's great.
I think it was lacking.
If road running is your thing,that's great.
I think there's a community foreverybody.
You're right.
But yeah, I'm scrolling throughYouTube and I found this video
(17:06):
by Billy Yang called A Day inthe Life, and I was just like,
wait, people run in the woods.
I grew up in the woods, mywhole family hunted and all that
stuff, and people run 100 miles.
This is wild to me, um.
So as I, as I've heard someonesay, I drank the kool-aid.
(17:26):
You know, I went, I went all in, uh, I signed up for, so
basically, I skipped halfmarathon, I skipped marathon
distance, I went from halfmarathon to 50k.
Uh, trail run and uh, a lot ofpeople do, and and uh, the rest
is history.
You know, I've been working myway up through some mileage and
we can dive into that later ifyou want, but that's the start
(17:48):
of my running journey.
It's, it's became more to methan just exercise.
It transcends exercise.
To me now, it's a way of life,it's meditation, it's um, and
running, running ultra, is likeexperiencing the woods, like
that is is spiritual, it'smeditation, it's healing, it's
(18:08):
exercise is just a you know acool side effect of all that
right it's community, like it'sso much bigger than, um, what I
could ever imagine becoming tome.
You know not to get too far offin the weeds with that, but
that's you know.
That's my running journey.
I went full in like I, like Iwould with anything I'm, you
(18:29):
know yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
So a lot of people, like a lot of the the clowns on
social media, would say, well,you went from one addiction to
the next.
I've heard that too.
You know what I mean, and it'slike I just give them a bird.
Okay, and so what about running?
Did you try bike biking?
(18:53):
Do you try anything else?
What?
What did running bring to youat that moment when you knew
deep down like, holy crap, man,this is what I want.
Like why running?
Why not cycling?
Why not just be a gym ratlifting weights?
You know trying to, you know bethe physique guy, or you know
bulk up power lifting, you knowyou could.
You have so many other choices,but why running?
(19:14):
I think.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
I mean, that's a.
I could tie a lot of thingsinto that.
First of all, I love theoutdoors, and that took me a
while to do.
But I thought deeply about this.
There's something, there'ssomething my way through this
like kind of switchbacky singletrack trail a few weeks ago and
(19:42):
I and I it was just like me,alone with my thoughts, um, just
like the sound of my feet kindof shuffling through the foliage
, and it was like this, likesynergy that I was like creating
, and I just don't think that Icould ever find anything like
that that gives me that, um,that moment.
Because you know, I spend mywhole life, even now, I'm always
(20:03):
kind of, uh, daydreaming about,like what's to come or like
things that I've done, and I'malways kind of in that limbo for
some reason.
And trail running it forces meto be present and, um, I can't
find anything else that gets meto that point, and I think
that's why I keep chasing theselonger distances.
You know, it's like you'represent and I'm always, you're
(20:26):
always kind of learningsomething new about yourself
every time you take them like alonger distance, and there's
always something you can takeaway.
Even if it doesn't go right.
Someone could go terribly, anultra could go terribly, and
I'll still learn from that.
All right, okay.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Your mission now Sober, sharing stories, paying
it forward.
Dude, that's awesome.
Keep it up, man.
What's next?
You said you're always thinkingwhat's next, what's next, man?
Because I always think I'mlike'm like, okay, right now.
You know, I had twoback-to-back multiple day races
(21:05):
that I had to decline because ofmy foot right.
It's always something, it'salways something.
So I'm always like all right,can I try this mountain?
Can I just walk the mountain?
You know, trek the mountain,the mountain.
I'm like I need to get out.
So I know what you're goingthrough.
So what is next for you?
I know you have a hundred milercoming up right, or a hundred K
(21:26):
.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
A hundred miles yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yeah, yeah.
So so what is next for youbesides that?
What, what, what goes throughyour mind Just trying to fulfill
that void, that that need toget the miles in to feel present
?
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Uh, um well, there's a couple of things outside of
just running.
Uh, I'm diving deeper in thecommunity.
Um that's something else that'skind of been coming up.
I realized that I take a lotfrom the sport, so I'm trying to
give back um the best and themost that I can.
So I've been diving deeper intolike networking and growing
(22:08):
like kind of like a trail family, and I think that's really
important.
I guess I just want toemphasize that.
And as far as races go, I'vegot a 12-hour and a backyard
coming up, but I'm kind of goingto use those for tune-ups for
100-miler.
Just more riding, morepodcasting.
(22:28):
We're really pushing to seewhere I can take my riding and
we're trying to grow that.
And then man, just kind ofeyeing the prize for the 100
miler and I'm stoked, I feelgood.
I went through a little injuryproblem too.
(22:49):
A couple weeks ago I did a24-hour event.
I probably shouldn't havepushed as hard as I did, but
that's kind of mended up.
And I guess I'll say this outloud, I'll be fully transparent.
I'm using the 100 miler forsomething bigger and if I say it
out loud, I'm committed to it.
(23:09):
So my plan is to go for theOregon 200 in 2025.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
2025 because 2024 is canceled because of the smoke.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
I don't know what that's going to do for next year
.
My plan is to reach out to themand make sure.
If not, I understand.
So maybe I'll find a 200 milesomewhere else, but I really
Nebraska Cowboy 200 is a goodone is it a good one okay?
Speaker 1 (23:42):
it's a good one, it's flatter, it's flatter, it's a
lot flatter.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
So, yeah, I mean that's.
I'm just trying to, you know,grow my role in uh, trail
running more.
Uh, maybe not.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
That doesn't always mean mileage, that could be,
yeah, like I got you diving deepin the community well, you're
doing it, man, you're doing it,dude, you're doing it by the
podcast, the writing, just youbeing present, you know, not
just here, but sharing otherstories.
You know, oh, oh, oregon, 200,man, that's a, that's brutal,
(24:18):
have you?
Have you been over here inthese parts?
Speaker 2 (24:21):
not in a long time, but, uh, I don't know what it is
.
It's, uh, why that number isreally sticking out to me right
now, but it's like I've got toat least try right like yeah
yeah I mean if I, if it doesn'tgo well, like, maybe I'll get a
few cool days in the mountains,I guess.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
So yeah, yeah, hurtful days, correct, and have
you done the a backyard yet?
Speaker 2 (24:43):
I've done.
This will be my third, third,fourth, third, backyard yeah
okay.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
And do you have a crew?
It's all about the crew.
Do you have a career?
Do you do it alone?
Speaker 2 (24:54):
I usually do it a lot .
Well, I don't have a crew, butI usually do it with a buddy of
mine.
I met my buddy, eric, at myfirst backyard, and this will
tell you a lot about backyards,right, I guess, for anybody who
doesn't know what a backyard is.
It's a 4.167-mile loop on thehour, every hour.
It's the brainchild of thegreat Ladris Lake, gary
(25:20):
Cantrellll, and you get one hourto do that loop and if you
don't make it, you're out.
Um, it's kind of like a runclub vibe.
It's, uh, I, I still talk toeverybody.
I still talk to people fromevery backyard.
I've ever done so.
Uh, this year I'm linking upwith my buddy eric.
(25:41):
We did, we've done some stufftogether um, my buddy cameron
balzer shout out to cameronbalzer he just completed, uh, a
run around the entire country,the united states of america, 12
100 miles around the country.
He'll be there.
So it's going to kind of belike a little like a little
reunion at this backyard, nice.
So, yeah, I'm really fired up.
(26:02):
I don't know what kind ofdistance I'm gonna do yet since,
uh, it'll be like a monthbefore my hundred miler, um, so
I don't know, I'll just run withmy heart and see uh, I'll
probably.
Maybe I'll piss off my runcoach if I run too too far, but
we'll see.
I'll ask for forgiveness if Igo too far so it's all about the
crew.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Man bet, the person with the best crew normally goes
the farthest.
So another thing is, if you douh backyards by yourself, the
best, the best way to, I guess,make it as far if you're alone.
Organization I see some crazyorganization for, you know, for
(26:44):
runners and everything, the bestorganized runner I've seen.
Instead of using boxes toorganize their stuff, they use
the plastic shoe uh shoe rackthat you can put on the backside
of a door.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Hey, telling you best way to do it.
Best way to do it, man.
So just FYI, giving you alittle pointer man, I love
backyards, I love backyards, andI definitely like to do the
ruck backyard more though,because it's just.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Oh, where's it.
So where's that at?
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Uh, there's some in, uh, washington, okay.
Uh, in Spokane area though.
Yeah, the, the, the, the, the,the, the, the, the, the, the.
The weighs a buck, 30, 25pounds.
If you weigh two bucks and 30or a little less, or anything
above 175, 180, you have to havelike 30 something pounds.
(27:48):
Man, it's, it's a difference,it's a difference I'll check
that out.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
That sounds like fun, though what like?
How long's the the loot?
The same, the same amount okayI think's a backyard, I think
it's.
I think it's silver.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
I think it's silver.
I think it's a silver.
Uh, backyard, I think, yeah,there's bronze silver and gold.
Uh, I know that's how they ratethem um oh, yeah, yeah, I can.
I can give you, uh, more inputafterwards, but yeah, I've done
it a couple of times, man.
So when you are running andfueling, what's your go-to fuel?
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Well, I've talked about this a lot, but usually,
and shout out to smokers andsend trustables, man, I love
them.
Trustables, that is.
That's, that's nutrition of thechampables man.
I love Uncrustables.
That is nutrition of the champsman.
I love Uncrustables.
I love those little mini Clifbars too, the little peanut
(28:49):
butter ones like 100 calories.
Black Forest gummies with thejuice in the middle.
I love those and I really love.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
I'm not a big fan of, like the goose or like yeah,
same awesome sauce or whatever.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
You know that whole debacle.
Um, I'm really into these mamachia chia seed packets it's like
a blackberry jam with, like,hydrated chia seeds on them, and
I love those.
They're always easy on thestomach.
This isn't, like you know, areigning endorsement, but that's
just one of my favorite.
Uh, if they wanted, if theywould ever uh, give me a
(29:26):
sponsorship, I would certainlyback that brand.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
But that's one of my favorite goats yeah, my goatee
is scratch.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
I love scratch and the the drink is so good like
yeah, um, I forgot, I likeforgot to throw some like
tailwind in my, in one of mymodels that one of my last
ultras and I was just likewhat's that?
Like scratch, you know I can't.
It was like the mandarin orangeor something right, I mean, it
was so good like honestly, itworks I might.
(29:53):
Yeah I, I no shame in that gameI might have to make the switch
to scratch because it wasphenomenal.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, soyou said Uncrustables.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Everybody knows my listeners know about
Uncrustables.
It's the lazy man way, but it'seffective, so I get it.
But when you do, I know duringyour lifetime, I know my
lifetime, and now up till now, Istill eat peanut butter jelly
sandwiches.
Do you eat peanut butter jellysandwiches besides Uncrustables?
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
So when you have time , you know, sit down, have a
dinner, a PBJ dinner, Justjoking.
By the way, how do you build apeanut butter jelly sandwich?
Matt?
Speaker 2 (30:37):
I usually do.
I usually like to do peanutbutter on one slice and jelly on
the other and then smash themtogether.
But I like to leave the cruston.
And crustable is just like youknow, it's like real handy, it's
like all ready to go.
But on the crust on, yeah,spread on both sides and mash
together what's the ratio?
(30:59):
I try to not go real heavy onlike.
I try to go real heavy on likethe jelly ass side of it, but
like for the peanut butter like.
I'll put like a three-eighthsslab of like peanut butter on
that side and just like coverlike 80 of the middle of the
(31:20):
other slice.
Okay.
All right, that's a reallyspecific breakdown, but I don't
want too much jelly.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Hey, I totally get it , and you won't believe what
I've heard on how people buildtheir peanut butter jelly
sandwich.
It's quite fascinating.
Yeah, yesterday blew my mind, orthe other day blew my mind,
rodeo athlete.
She said that you know she, shemakes them, but she puts them
in little squares.
(31:48):
She cuts them up in littlesquares and puts them in a
Ziploc bag, so when she's hungryshe just eats it like a snack.
I'm like what that's out of twohundred and thirty two episodes
.
You know, this one gal justblew my mind.
I mean, I've heard sourdough,I've heard tortilla, I've heard
some amazing peanut butterjellies.
(32:08):
You know how to make it, butthis one was like weird, you
know, I'm like what.
I can't do that to my peanutbutter jelly sandwich because I
don't.
I don't think it's feeling, youknow, but that's her way of
doing it.
You know she's also a model, sothat explains it all.
You know.
But that's her way of doing it.
You know she's also a model, sothat explains it all, you know.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
I can almost appreciate the commitment to
that, though like toindividually cut it all up.
So All right.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
So that that's OK, that's the way you go.
I like more peanut butter jelly, so I appreciate you sharing
that.
Man, I do, I do, all right, sodo you.
I drive my wife crazy becausewhen I listen to music, I have
to listen to albums.
I don't listen to playlists.
I don't listen to some randomlike 1990s rock, rap, whatever I
(32:57):
have to listen to albums.
I drive her crazy, right?
Do you listen to albums or youjust listen to playlists?
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Kind of depends on the artist too, I guess as well.
I'll start with that.
But I mean, honestly, I'm Ihate to admit it, but I, you
know I spent I can't tell youthe last time I listened to like
this like a full, full album,oh my God.
Like I said, it depends on theartist, but I'm a playlist guy.
Now it's like I need, I justneed like little, like tidbits
(33:27):
out of each album and createlike a greater playlist.
But yeah, it's, it's hard.
It's like we live in such likea like a quick world with like
reels.
It's like you just want likethe best of this, the best of
that.
So I'll admit I've gotten awayfrom listening to whole albums
okay, so I got a couplequestions for you, man.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
When was the last time you actually listened to a
full album front to back dude?
Speaker 2 (33:57):
oh, probably about a month ago, I listened the to the
entire Kid, a album byRadiohead.
I love Radiohead.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Oh, radiohead's good.
The old stuff is good.
The new stuff is just like ohGod, what are you trying to do?
It's almost like Modest Mouse.
You know, their old stuff isjust phenomenal.
It's just like, oh my God,where is that?
And then they went to the newage sound.
I'm like radio head.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Uh, a lot of smiles, yes, so kid a all right, okay,
favorite album of all time, ohno, uh, it's weird because it's
not like my favorite artist, but, um, and it's for reasons so
before me and my wife had kids,we used to, you know, take a lot
of trips together, road tripsand stuff, uh, and we always had
like this road playlist andthere's this, uh, live oar album
(34:48):
that we used to listen to allthe time and I had on cd.
Like one of my friends left thedouble disc cd in the car.
This is when you still had cds,like it was in a big, that big
book, you know?
hey, I still have cds, don'tknock it yeah it's like a, it's
like live at red rocks orsomething by oar.
Yeah, and me and my wife wouldlisten to that album the entire,
(35:09):
the entire road trips.
And it's like I said, oar isnot like.
I like oa at r, like I kind oflike I'm like you know, I like
dad rock, I like jam bands soit's not my favorite artist, but
it's my favorite album.
That like life of the.
I like jam bands, so it's notmy favorite artist, but it's my
favorite album.
That like life of the red rocksI think it's what it's called,
or it's called like here and nowby OAR.
I wish I could remember thename of the album right now, but
it's so damn good from beginlike start to finish, so that's
(35:33):
my favorite album of all timebecause it's like a nostalgia.
Yeah, there's a lot of memoriesyeah, memories, you remember.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
You know there's tons of albums of me thinking like,
okay, where was I when I firstwas on?
Yeah, I was here there and inbetween.
Yes, yes, yes, favorite artistsof all time, even your go-to
artists.
Like it never fails, dude, whenyou put it on your playlist,
you know it's going to be a goodone I am a huge queens of stone
(36:05):
age fan.
I saw that I saw that man.
That's another eclectic sound.
I just have not been a fan.
I'm a huge fan of foo fighters.
I know they're friends, butit's just like ah, that's just.
I'm not a fan of theirs.
But okay, queen of Stone Age,okay.
Yeah yeah, All right all right.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Yeah, it's like it's not for everybody.
I can understand that, but Idon't know what it is.
I just love.
I just always loved Queen ofStone Age.
Like it grew on me as I gotolder too.
It's like, ah, it's just sogood.
Like it ages so well.
Like, like ages so well, likethey always age so well with
their music.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
So Okay, I gotcha, I gotcha Song that you must have
in your hundred miler coming up.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Okay, this has been a absolute like.
I've got like a rescue playlistthat I listened to when I'm
running through the woods andthere's a song called black
critic by Brent Cobb that has tobe on my hundred mile playlist,
absolutely has to be on my 100mile playlist.
Absolutely has to be on thatplaylist, man, I could listen
like if I'm going dark on atrail, like on an ultra.
I'll just put that on repeat.
(37:09):
I don't know, it's just like ah, that song just gets me every
time and it's like it can onlydo that when I'm in the woods
and I'm suffering really bad.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
When you have downtime, whenever.
That is because I know you andI have similar schedules a bit.
You know, when you havedowntime, what do you do for fun
?
Don't say run either.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
People say that it's like are you kidding me.
Well, it's weird because it'sbecome more of like a side
business now, on accident, butfor fun.
I am crazy about woodworking.
I love hand tool woodworking.
I love woodturning, I loveteaching woodturning to other
people.
That's something that we'vebeen me and a business partner
(37:58):
hopefully a business partnerI've been kind of planning and
trying to see if we're going toget work.
Um, like I said, uh,woodworking, woodworking has
become a side business for me.
I also in my fun time now makeuh finisher medals for a lot of
trail races, uh I saw thatbeautiful one.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
I like that, so thank you what's that?
You made that hand saw one, ohno no, that was.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Uh, that was my dfl prize at my 100k I draw across
that finish line, uh.
So, yeah, something, somethingI do for fun.
It's become almost a businesson accident, but it's still
something I really love to do.
Um, I love creating.
I would like to sometimes callmyself an artist, but, uh, you
(38:49):
know, imposter syndrome is whatit is, so I don't really feel
like I earned that title yet,but I'm working on my craft
artists are everywhere, man.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Whether you run, you write podcasts.
Come on, man yeah, true yeahall different types.
Okay, all right.
So when you do have downtime,my downtime is watching movies,
all right, I I lost touchbecause dude streaming is ruin
cinema.
Hate it, hate it Okay.
(39:22):
So there's certain kinds ofmovies, but there's one actor
that I always have to know Cause, you know, for the guys that
come on, I always have to knowtheir personality.
So I have to ask you manfavorite Adam Sandler movie?
Speaker 2 (39:40):
Well, all right, it's Billy Madison.
Come on, it's so, it's billymadison come on it's so it's so
good.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Okay, so the original ones yeah, I love that movie.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
I'll still watch it.
You can't, you can't outgrowbilly madison.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
If you do, you're taking yourself too seriously,
right, he called the shit poop,yeah, yeah stop looking at me,
swan yeah, yeah, exactly that'smy go-to man.
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
Okay, favorite movie of all time oh man, I gotta ask
this recently.
Uh well, and it's weird becauseit's also because I it's a
thing I share with my wife,shawshank redemption.
We always make it a point towatch that movie together.
I don't know if I can watch itwithout her.
It'd be weird.
So I think Shawshank Redemption, I've got a lot of like
(40:30):
favorite movies, like of acertain genre, but I think
Shawshank Redemption is myfavorite movie of all time.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
All time Okay, all right.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Comedy all right, comedy, then go comedy.
Oh uh, yeah, what's that,what's?
Speaker 1 (40:49):
that my favorite comedy?
Oh wow, uh, probably billymadison.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
Uh, yeah, yeah, it's so damn funny, uh or uh,
pineapple express, actually, letme say that for favorite comedy
.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
That's one of my favorites man yeah, yeah.
And then there's other guys ohyeah, oh yeah.
Sometimes.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Yeah, I love Talladega Nights, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Okay, all right, man.
Well, dude, I don't know.
We can keep going and going.
I appreciate your time, I knowyou're busy and everything else,
but would you like to addanything?
Did I miss anything?
Speaker 2 (41:31):
No, I think you captured it well.
I you know, I guess, maybe,maybe, if I could leave some
like closing of advice, wouldn'tit be okay?
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
And this is something that Ihave to remind myself all the
time and I always like to saydon't be afraid to say yes to
(41:53):
scary things.
I think that's a big thing,right, sign up for the thing
that scares you and just get outthere and do it.
It doesn't have to look pretty,it doesn't have to look pretty,
it doesn't have to be perfect.
It's all about progress.
I've learned a big thing thatstands in my own way is myself.
So I just want to, I just wantto you know, share that what I'm
(42:16):
kind of, what I'm learningabout myself as I go.
Just get out of your own wayand get after the scary stuff,
don't you know?
Don't be afraid to say yes andon yourself, that's.
That's just something I want to.
I got to get out All right.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
Well, thank you, and forgot to add one thing the
artistry, artistry.
Right, I had a.
I have a buddy of mine, theonly guy that I talked to out of
the Army, the only guy that Italked to.
I don't speak of it, don'treally highlight it, you know,
yes, I am a veteran, but he did.
He turned into woodworking andturning and everything else, and
(42:55):
it was kind of interestingbecause he lives on the
peninsula, right outside ofTacoma, right, he would look at
trees a lot differently than Iwould, right, and so anytime we
came to a tree that had cancer,right, he'd be like, oh my God,
I want that, I want that.
(43:15):
So my question to you this is agood question about artistry
and everything else.
Are you one of those guys thatwhen you see a cancerous tree
you're like dude?
I want to turn that.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
Oh yeah, my wife, every time I go for a walk
there's this tree just in thispark by us.
It's got this huge burl on itand it's like I want to like.
She's like no, you can't cutthat.
Like I'm not gonna go cut theburl off the tree.
It's like I bet it's like a 200pound burl.
Yeah, and it's maple, so mapleburl looks crazy when you turn
(43:50):
it and like add a little, add alittle uh, oil to it, the
character in that.
I mean it turns like powder.
But if you can get it turnedand in one piece and a little
bit of linseed oil, oh it'spretty well turned Burl is a
thing of absolute beauty.
Yeah, you guys are different.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
And you guys are a different breed.
Yeah, to see this guy whodoesn't even do a lick of stuff,
you know, and just get you knowjust high and just drool over
this bump in a tree, a tumor ina tree, guys, if you guys don't
know what I'm talking about,it's just a bump in a tree, an
odd bump cancerous tumor of atree and he just at odd with it.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
So man, I, I get it.
Man, I totally understand yourfriend.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Yes, and I totally understand what you're going
through too, man, with yourstory.
I appreciate you sharing, notjust here but everywhere else,
and sharing online threads.
And you know the new thread.
I'm not a fan of it.
I'm not because a lot of peoplethere's a lot of bs in there
but I saw yours and I was justlike man.
This guy's opening up and ittakes a lot of balls, takes a
(45:04):
lot of balls, man and uh.
But you're there, you'rehealthy, mentally, physically,
emotionally, dude.
You got what it takes to carryon your story others.
So, without further ado, man, Iappreciate your time and what
you do for the community.
Continue sharing stories,whether it's yours and others.
(45:27):
Thank you for helping othersfind their voice.
Until next time, please comeagain.
You're always welcomed, thankyou.
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