Stop and Smell the Roses with Steve Emory

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Steve Emery.
How are you, Good man?
How are you Doing?
All right, Thank you.
Yeah, thank you for coming onSunday.
Sunday morning.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, I know it's like it's one of the benefits of
well, at least on my part, ofnot like so many years in
recovery.
Now, you know, not waking up atsomebody's some strange
person's house or waking up onthe street yeah, not wondering
how I got there.
Um, you know, waking up likewith a clear mind, that's,

(00:59):
that's an awesome thing.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
Oh, yeah, yeah, how many how many years?

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Uh well, it's almost almost 15 years.
It'll be 15 years in june nowcongrats, man, congrats yeah,
yeah, it definitely.
It saved my life.
So I wouldn't be running if Iwas still indulging, so but
trust me when I tell you if Icould, if I, if I, if I was able
to drink like a normal person,um, I, I, I, I would still be

(01:25):
doing it, cause I loved whiskeya lot, probably a little bit too
much.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
All right, 15 years man, Congrats man.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah, I have.
I tell you what I haven't hadanything since uh Vegas and
right before I went to uhtreatment.
You know, I'm just too afraidto, you know, get the
inflammatory going back in mybody.
So I'm like I'm gonna stay awayfrom that stuff.
So, yeah, no, I get it.

(01:55):
Yeah, but uh, how's the weatherdown there, man?

Speaker 2 (01:59):
it's uh, it's it's about, I think it's what like 50
ish or 52 or three, and that'spartly cloudy the sun's kind of
poking itself out this morning.
So okay, are you uh, highdesert, low desert, um, I'd say
low desert, low desert, yeah,yeah, just in the summer, just
um to the southeast of phoenixand chandler, um and um.

(02:22):
Yeah, we're lucky we got.
We have trails kind of like allover the place.
You know from where I live, soit's not that not too far of a
drive.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah that's good, Good.
Well, I'm in the low desert andeastern side of Washington and
I tell you what they never hadthe weather forecast correct
around here.
So woke up with flurries and icyroads and that was not on the
forecast, so my run did nothappen.

(02:50):
I might happen later, I don'tknow, but the run will probably
end up being a walk to getcoffee and then walk back.
Man, I love those days sundaysare are my coffee days that I
like to just go.
I'll run to the coffee placeand then run back and do some
more miles, whatever.
But yeah, welcome, man, welcome.

(03:11):
Any predictions?
Any predictions for tonight'sfootball game?

Speaker 2 (03:17):
uh, it's.
It's hard to say, but I think,if I think, if the Chiefs, if
they play the way they'recapable of, they'll probably win
oh dude, oh dude, you want themto 3P?
Yeah, well, I don't want themto Like.
Honestly, I would love to seePhilly spoil it.
But yeah, I kind of don't havea dog in the fight because my
Buccaneers got.
You know, we got eliminated.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah, yeah, I got you , I got you.
I'm a 49er fan, diehard 49erfan.
So anything with the chiefs man, I do not, I don't care anybody
but the chiefs.
But you know what I told mywife I'm not watching it, I'm

(03:58):
not gonna have.
You know, uh, what is it that?
How they see how many people uhwatch the super bowl or a
certain time.
I'm like that's, I'm not goingto be a statistic.
So I told her I'm not going togo or not going to watch it, but
I will go to the party, I'mjust going to do my own thing
and just hang out, whatever.
But yeah, anything for the lady, right?

(04:19):
absolutely yeah so but god gosh,go eagles.
Okay, I said it, I said it, itsucks, but go eagles, all right.
So thanks for being here.
So, steve, you are on herebecause, dude, you are a jack of
all trades yeah, I appreciatethat.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
I I try to.
I think the theme like, if I,if I were to like, ask, like
chat gbt to you know, write likean instagram, instagram profile
for me, I would say I would sayrunning and generally just
being outside and like a lot ofthat has to do with photography

(05:07):
and trail running too, of course.
But yeah, um, you know, alsofishing and stuff like that,
like stuff I've done since I wasa kid, um, I and I would, I
would go out on hunts like withmy dad, um, I haven't gotten,
never gotten drawn.
I I've put in for stuff forlike Turkey and stuff like that.
My dad, um, I haven't gotten,never gotten drawn.
I've I've put in for stuff forlike Turkey and stuff like that,
um, but I've actually nevergotten.

(05:29):
I've actually never gottenlucky enough to be to be drawn.
So, um, so yeah, before my dadpasses, I'd love to him and I
both get drawn together.
That would be, that would bereally um, I think that would be
really um, I think that wouldbe great.
So I think, um, I think we'regoing to try and do that for
this year okay, nice, niceturkey hunting yeah, like turkey

(05:53):
, um, maybe mule deer, um youknow some, something like that.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
So yeah, turkey hunting's fun, but man oh yeah,
you gotta you gotta watch out.
I mean, I you.
It's like power hiking man theturkey hunt is, and that's why I
like it, I love it.
But man, they're so elusive andsmart, goodness gracious yeah,
I know that's.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
That's.
That's kind of what my mom wassaying when she I think it was
not last year, but the yearbefore her and my dad actually
got drawn together and both gota turkey, and she's like, yeah,
those things will work.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
Yeah, man, I mean, yeah, they can, they can scoot
so yeah yeah, yeah, and so I Ilike the fall hunting, but yeah,

(06:50):
but I mostly I prefer deer, notdeer.
Uh, duck, oh, okay, duck, I, Ilove duck man.
There's something about it,it's just fun.
Yeah, moving targets in the air, yeah, yeah those are, they're
good.
They're good eating too yeah,so what came first photography

(07:10):
or running?

Speaker 2 (07:11):
definitely running.
Um, so for me, it started in umin junior high.
Um, I ran both years and, um,well, I wasn't the fastest.
Um, our team was really good.
Um, actually, my second year injunior high, we actually went
undefeated and won that, won theconference.

(07:32):
So, um, yeah, like, even thoughI didn't score for our team
because we could only have Ithink it was like six runners
and I and there were there wereeight of us, the two of us that
weren't allowed to score weactually still finished in the
top 50, um out of I think it waslike 500 runners or something

(07:54):
like that.
So, okay, yeah, so that.
So, as far as running goes,that's where that started, okay.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
When did you start picking up a camera?
And you know taking photos ofthe sunset so, and so it's.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
It's interesting, I didn't really start getting
serious with the camera untiluntil until the pandemic, and it
was like 2020, I think that'swhen I I bought my, my first
camera, like real camera, likebig boy camera.
It was a Canon EOS Rebel.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
And yeah, and I just started to read a lot about
photography, especiallyastrophotography, which I'm
still trying to get more into,since I have all the equipment
now with the telescope and allthe attachments and everything
you know I needed to likephotograph planets.

(08:49):
So, yeah, I'm still trying toget into that.
But yeah, landscape, uh,photography, that's like where
my heart is and, um, I just lovelike venturing up into the
mountains and, um, so we're outin the desert and you know we
have plenty of that too yeah,yeah, man, yeah, a lot of the
sunsets that you take picturesof.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
It reminds me of this place, so it's like is he in?
Tri-cities.
Is he in tri-cities so?
Yeah, you're not you're, you'redown there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Isn't it funny that a lot ofthings uh were picked up during
the pandemic, like hobbies andeverything absolutely yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
And and for me, like my weight got really really bad
during the pandemic, um, becauseI wasn't like getting outside a
lot and um, and that's kind ofwhere, like the running came
into it's.
It's kind of funny like how allthis happened, um, and I think

(09:57):
it was one day it was when Iwent to my oldest nephew's
wedding in 2021 and I saw how Ilooked in the suit.
I'm like, okay, this has tochange, like I need to do
something, and that's kind of.
That's kind of where the wholerunning journey happened.
I started actually walkingfirst because my joints hurt too
much, because I was so heavythat my joints hurt when I ran

(10:17):
yeah yeah, so I had to jump onthe bike and um and walk at
first until I lost, I think,like 40 pounds.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
Okay, you look good, man you look good, thank you
Good.
So so this podcast started.
You know pandemic time andeverything else and you know,
four years later, going strong.
Yes, last year was an anomaly,because you know my dad and my,
my father-in-law, and then youknow the c words, but I still

(10:48):
pumped out 19.
You know 19 episodes, which isweird considering I'm going on
250 right now.
You know, soon, soon, I thinkafter this month, I'll be 250
episodes.
But it's funny how something sobig could make us turn to
something so little, as somewould say, and then strive.

(11:10):
You know Absolutely.
It's just amazing, man, it'samazing.
So when you started running injunior high, as you said, did
you run in high school?

Speaker 2 (11:23):
I did some.
So my freshman year I just did,I ran track and amazingly, I
didn't like I.
I wasn't because we had a lotof really good, fast guys like
in the mile, the two mile, so Iended up running the 800, which

(11:44):
was so hard to me.
I think that's honestly.
I think the 400 and the 800 areprobably the two hardest events
.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
Right, I gotcha Okay, so you did that throughout high
school.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yeah, so my.
So my freshman and sophomoreyear I ran track and then I
didn't run cross country untilmy senior year Okay.
And that kind of led me intothe middle.

(12:22):
Well, it didn't lead me into it.
I already had it kind of madeup in my mind that I was going
to join the army, yeah so.
So running so me and running inthe military, that was kind of
a natural fit.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
So I'm going to get there.
I was going to get there.
I was going to get there.
So right after high school youjoined the military, or did you
go to college and then join?

Speaker 2 (12:48):
Yeah, no, I actually enlisted.
I was old enough to enlist mysenior year and my parents
already knew I was going toenlist and my dad's a vet.
He put in about 15 years, Ithink.
It was like eight, eight activeduty and then he was on the
guard for about seven.
Yeah, so it was kind of anatural fit.

(13:10):
You know, um, for me, um, Iwanted to go to college, didn't
have money to pay for it, so,yeah, yeah, so the army was kind
of a second option, um, youknow, to kind of get a somewhat
of a career established and tosee the world.
So, did you see the world?
Yeah, I did.

(13:31):
Um, yeah, mogadishu and and uh,93.
, um, we were kind of we werekind of the forgotten group
because we were there beforetask force Ranger.
Um, you know, when the the,that really bad raid happened
and we lost, you know, all thoseRangers.
You know the incident thatBlack Hawk Down was based on

(13:53):
Black Hawk Down.
Yep, yeah, that happened to thegroup like after us.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
Oh, okay.
So yeah, that's third worldcountry there, man.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
Yeah, that's third world country there.
Man, yeah, I know, and here Iam I'm barely 20 years old
getting deployed downrange.
Thankfully, I was in a fieldhospital.
So by the time, at our biggestback then, what was the 86, 86,
evac?

(14:23):
Um, I think we had like 300beds at one point.
So, yeah, so we we got builtout pretty good and like fully
functioning er or um, you know,we had everything.
We were like a level, we werelike the level one trauma unit,
you know, for all of all the,the, uh, the forces.

(14:44):
So in country, okay, mogadishuman.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
Okay, yeah, I was gonna say black hawk down.
Yeah, yeah, all right.
Yeah, were you able to go offbase?

Speaker 2 (14:59):
so yeah, so so we did , we, we did a, um, kind of an
exchange thing with the Swedesto where two of their hospital
troops came and worked for usand then two of us went and
worked for them.
So it was kind of cool likeseeing how you know, like a

(15:21):
different, and I found out thatthere was way more relaxed than
we were, like oh yeah you know,whereas we were like we have
procedures for everything, wewere like by the book, yeah,
where they were like it wasalmost like a civilian operation
.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
Oh yeah, yeah, it's a lackadaisical kind of thing,
you know.
Yeah, was that the only placeyou were over?
Uh, at overseas?

Speaker 2 (15:46):
so, um, and then my.
My next stop was guantanamo.
Um, I was there and part ofoperation c signal, it was joint
task force 160, so it was acoalition, basically a big
coalition of volunteers.
Um, well, are they?
Or voluntold volunteers?
Yeah, like hey, you're goinghere for the next few months.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
So, yeah, it was like Fort Campbell, fort Carson,
like a whole bunch of people andlike different, you know MOSs
yeah, of course, I was a cook,so it was me, and then one of my
cohorts from Fort Campbell, andthen, yeah, so there was a
bunch of us.
So, basically, what we didduring Task Force 160 is we
provided logistics for therefugees, like Cuban and Haitian

(16:34):
refugees, that were atGuantanamo.
Okay, yeah, so the name of itwas Operation Sea Signal.
Huh, so, yeah, so it was abunch of um, it was kind of like
this storm that happened, socastro like opened the gates and
said anybody that wants toleave can we're not going to do
anything to stop you.

(16:54):
And then, at the same time,like there was this um like
really bad, there was like amilitary coup happening in haiti
and um, yeah, so we ended up umproviding like aid for, like
all these refugees, um, thatwere there until they could be
repatriated um, either back totheir own country or, um, the

(17:19):
ones that had relatives in theunited states.
You know they applied for, youknow, immigration status in the
states okay, so.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
So, when they talk about guantanamo bay, you're
like you know these days, you'relike I was there back in the
night yeah okay, probably, yeah,probably, look the same smell
the same too, right yeah?

Speaker 2 (17:40):
exactly.
So yeah, I I I often wonderlike, do they still house
dependents there, or is it justbasically just the whole?
You know that part of theisland just turned into like a
big giant prison.
Now I don't know, you know itmay have changed after 9-11.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
Yeah, so I mean, I heard that they houses 30,000
people.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
Same number as when you were there yeah, like I, I
believe it.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
Um, oh man, they like everything on the island.
Um, on that part of of theisland like, there was an
outdoor theater.
They had a bowling alley, um,of course, they had like an
enlisted officers club, likestandard drill, like any like
military base, um, but the Ithink the coolest part of that
place was the outdoor movietheater.

(18:30):
I remember I'll never forgetwatching the movie time cop,
where the jean-claude, yeah,yeah, um, outside, I was like
the coolest thing.
I felt like I was at a, youknow, at a drive-in.
Huh, okay, you know, except foryou.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
Just you got to bring your own cooler and just sit
out there in the chair.
Nice, nice, okay, yeah, that'spretty cool when in the military
running was still there,correct, oh yeah absolutely yeah
.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
So so we had to um take a PT test at least once a
year.
Sometimes we did it dependingon what outfit I was in.
You know we did it twice a year, so, yeah, so we had, we had to
maintain a standard for a twomile run, you know, based on our
age group, yeah, and of course,you know, being in my 20s, you

(19:20):
know all throughout the wholetime, um, just about, you know,
um, yeah, I trying to think, Iknow I had to do at least like a
16 minute um two miles, so itwas like eight minute miles.
So you know, and, and we ran,we did like like formal-ups,

(19:49):
sit-ups, all that good stuff,and ran probably five days a
week.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
Now I know how it is in the service.
You know, army, we run ourbutts off now.
And also being 20-somethingsomething years old, we like to
party right?
Did you enjoy the running or no?

Speaker 2 (20:16):
honestly I did okay um unfortunately, many mornings,
you know I was, I was runningthe hangover out of me, you know
, because I most of us did yes,yeah, I just, yeah, I just, you
know, partied way too muchduring the middle of the week

(20:39):
and yeah, so there were quite afew mornings, and it wasn't just
me a lot of times, especiallyon Friday mornings.
Few mornings and it wasn't justme a lot of times, especially
on friday mornings.
You know there would be a lotof us, you know that would just
the place would just, it wouldsmell like a distillery, just
about right, oh yeah, yeah, yousweat it out.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
You're like gosh, I can smell it and taste it.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, don't lie to match yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
So just running in military, did you lose enjoyment
out of it, man?
Though Just a tad bit, Becauseit was just like you know, you
get that slinky effect when youdo the platoon runs and company
runs and it was just like, ohGod, this sucks.
Did you lose it?

Speaker 2 (21:20):
No, no, not at all, I think running I think I always
enjoyed it because, I don't knowit just it felt like freedom in
a lot of ways, even on the,even on the days when, you know,

(21:44):
maybe my body didn'tnecessarily feel that great.
Um, you know, I always feltbetter afterwards, like I would,
you know, grumble and, you know, probably fill up a swear jar
under my breath, having to runbecause I didn't feel that great
, I was in bad mood or whateverright but yeah, I always felt
great afterwards.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
Yeah, so Okay.
So eight years in, you didn'tre-enlist what.
What then man?
What then yeah?

Speaker 2 (22:12):
So, so I did, I did two four-year enlistments.
So I did, I did.
I ended up doing three yearsstateside and then a total of
five years overseas, between thedeployments, and I spent three
years stateside and then a totalof five years overseas between
the deployments, and I spentthree years in Germany.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
Yeah, so Okay.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
What part of Germany.
So, yeah, I was at well, theycall it Landstuhl Medical Center
now.
So, yeah, so that's, that's,that's where I was, and I ended
up spending a year of thatenlistment, that second four
year enlistment I spent, endedup spending a year of that
actually the first year I got toGermany in July of 95.

(23:00):
And then in late October ofthat year I volunteered to go
with a field hospital out ofWürzburg, germany, to go to
Hungary to be a part of I-4.
So we basically providedmedical support for the troops

(23:23):
that were in Bosnia.
Okay, so, yeah, I spent ania.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
Okay, so, yeah.
So I spent a year in.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
Kapusmar Hungary.

Speaker 1 (23:29):
You've been around, man.
I thought I was man, Jeez, yeah, Africa one minute, Germany the
next.
Yeah, Würzburg is no longerlike there.
It's there, but civilians tookover it.
You know, man, I don't know howthe military just spends all
that money and then just let itgo, man, it's crazy, it's crazy

(23:50):
so, but uh, launch tools willalways be there, I believe.
Oh yeah, I think so too, oh yeah, yeah.
But I, I know it all too well,man, oh geez okay.
So running always loved it.
I tell you what, when I sorunning always loved it.
I tell you what when I was in,I loved it until we had the
company runs.
Man, I freaking hated thecompany runs, because I don't

(24:12):
like running with no one.
And that slinky effect, man,you know, you're on everybody's
hill, people are on your hill.
That's the worst, that's theworst run ever.
And I tell you what there'snothing exciting or or enjoying.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
There's no enjoyment at all for that yeah, yeah, no,
I totally agree, those were theworst like all, like whenever we
had to run with um, becausesometimes we would have to run
with um.
When I was at Fort Campbell wewould have to run with like a
brigade, um, with like there waslike a, there was like a

(24:51):
support brigade that we had torun with, which totally didn't
make any sense, but anyway.
And then when we did a um, uh,our yearly hospital run when I
was at launch tool, um, Itotally get that, it was just,
it was basically like like apower walk yeah, and with people
non-stop talking or yelling andit's just like uh gosh, I just

(25:16):
can I be at home sleeping, right, I wouldn't do that yeah, yeah,
I'm like first hour.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
Hey, hey, nah, nah.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
Shut up.
Yeah, like do we really have tobe out here?
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
So when you got out and we'll talk more about the
service when you got out, whatthen?
Did you continue to run, didyou stop for a bit?
What?

Speaker 2 (25:43):
Yeah.
So when I got out, yeah, like Ididn't, I didn't run at all,
like I didn't, I wasn't reallylike physically active I I wrote

(26:04):
like I when I finally it ohgosh, I think it was like eight
years, um, I think it was like2007,.
Uh, was when I bought mymountain bike that I still have
Um and um.
Yeah, so I.
So that's that's kind of what Idid Um, like for like physical
exercise.
Yeah, I wasn't, I wasn't reallyactive.
You know, which, you know,contributed obviously to me.
You know, gaining a lot ofweight, um, um, so yeah, so I

(26:30):
didn't, I didn't start runningagain, I went, I went from
basically I think it was like 90, like late 98, early 99, until
2021, um without actuallyrunning.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
So goodness gracious.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
Yeah, wow, I know.
And when I it was, it was, itwas, it was crazy, man, like
when I started running again,like I realized like once I
started getting into it and Istarted, I got to where I could
run more than you know, three orfour miles at a time.
Um, I forgot how much I missedit.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
So yeah, 23 years, dude, oh my.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
God, I know.

Speaker 1 (27:13):
All right, so we don't have to get too far into
detail, but for those 23 years,I mean 15 of them.
You were sober, so yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
Yeah, so I was basically, you know, um, just um
, an inactive, like sad, likealcoholic, like living in you
know like isolation most of thetime.
I would go out, I would go out,like I would go out, like I
would go out with peoplesometimes, but once I um, I

(27:49):
think, I think once I started tomake a change, like with my
diet and with um, like wantingto lose weight and wanting to
start running again, and therewas somebody in my, somebody
that's been in my life sincelike 2004, linda Campbell.

(28:13):
She really motivated me tostart running and she told me,
like how much it had done forher mental health and so, yeah,
so that was kind of like anothermotivating factor.
Um, but the biggest factor wasfor me to really start caring
about my, my own physicalappearance again and um, so yeah

(28:38):
, and it's yeah, it's been greatever since, um, I, I didn't
start trail running untilactually 2023, so I haven't been
on the trails for too long um,a friend of mine that you know,
uh, chris morrison, convinced meto start trail running, so okay
, yep, chris morrison, andthat's when, that's when you

(28:59):
came around, right?

Speaker 1 (29:00):
that's when you started following me.
We started talking and gettingto know each other.
So, yeah, shout out to ChrisMorrison.
So Linda, is she still in thepicture?
She is.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
yeah, shout out to Linda.
There was a period of timewhere we were kind of out of
each other's lives there for afew years, but then she moved
back to town and yeah.
So she's still in the picture.
She's like a really fastroadrunner, like really fast,

(29:33):
and I've been slowly trying toconvince her to come out to the
trails.
It's not the same, it's alittle more relaxed.
I know how competitive you are,but it's so relaxed out here
Road is definitely differentthan trail.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
It out here road is definitely different than trail.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
it is definitely than trail, it's so, um, so yeah, so
I'm still, I still considermyself pretty much a newbie um
on the on the trail, so I I tryto learn from people as much as
I can.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
It's crazy now chris Chris Morrison, really a big guy
.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yeah, he, yeah, like he's a giant, like I'm not I
don't consider myself short, buthe's like yeah yeah, yeah, yeah
, a little intimidating man, buthe did that Black Canyon 100K
yesterday correct and hecompleted it.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
Shout out to Chris.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
Yeah, I got to.
So I was volunteering at theshuttle pickup lot yesterday
morning and I actually got tosee him when he pulled into the
lot and gave him a fist bump.
When he, when he pulled intothe lot and, uh, gave him a fist
bump, and um, yeah, so I was, Iwas so happy for him, um, you
know, being able to, to, to, toget some redemption for you know

(30:53):
, missing out on it last yearand you know going out there
this year and and just you know,crushing it.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
so yeah, yeah, that's good.
Yeah, man, yeah, I love 100ks.
Man.
If I can do that all year roundaround here, I would do it, but
every race around here is anout and back, and I just don't
like that.
Don't like that, all right.
How was the volunteer status,though?
Last night, did you get yoursunset?

(31:19):
I, I believe I saw it and likeyour sunset pic.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
You said you you were gonna work on it and you got it
correct, oh, yeah, yeah, so, um, so I I was able to to and
that's what I posted on my likethe main wall yesterday on
Instagram um, I was able to get,uh, captured this, uh, the very

(31:43):
early stages of day break, man,it was.
It's so cool, it's it's kind ofhumbling, like when you get to
witness that in the morning, tosee the day, you know, like
night, turning slowly in the day, like that.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
I love it too, man, it's good yeah, it's a little
glow, it's a glow yes it's aglow man and there's nothing.
Yeah, yeah, I know what you'retalking about.
I know what you're talkingabout.
Oh, yeah, I spent a lot of timeon the mountains and that glow
is very helpful.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
What is it?

(32:17):
What is it about?
The sunsets, though, man, thatyou love, because you take a lot
of sunset pics, I think it's.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
I think a lot of it has to do with, um, I think,
watching westerns growing up, Ithink that was part of it.
Um, that, and I'm always seeing, because my parents always read
louis lamore, uh, books likenovels, yeah, so being able to
see like the artwork that was onthe covers of those two, um,

(32:48):
yeah, and I think it's the wholewestern thing.
Um, you know that I grew up andyou know growing up in like a
very western town.
You know in in phoenix, um, inphoenix area, and um, you know
being exposed to, um, you knowlike horses and um, you know the

(33:10):
cowboy way.
You know growing up with mylate grandfather, um, you know
spending time during the summerswith him, um, so, yeah, so
that's in, in getting up earlyand helping him.
You know feed the animals, um,you know, in the mornings and
and watching the sunrise overthe desert.
Man, it's okay, there's nothing, nothing like it, I got you.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
It hits different.
Oh yes, absolutely Gotcha.
All right, we can talk Westernsall day if you want.
So my my question to you isyour favorite western man go, oh
gosh oh, there's, there's.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
I mean I love the duke, I love john wayne.
Um, you know, rooster codburn,I would say it was probably one
of them, and then I would say,um clint, eastwood course Right.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
Spaghetti Westerns dude.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
I'm all about it, man .
Exactly Nothing you can't gowrong with either one of those.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
He was such a badass dude.
He's still a badass man, youdon't want me using that?

Speaker 2 (34:18):
language.
No, no, no, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
He is a badass.
Yeah, yeah, I mean God, allright.
Have, yeah, he is a badass.
Yeah, yeah, I mean God, allright.
Have you seen any new onesrecently that strike a chord?

Speaker 2 (34:31):
Yeah, I'm trying to.
I know Kevin Costner.
He was great.
He came out with one recently,american Saga.
Yeah, yeah, that I've seen.
So I actually heard himinterview on a podcast and he
was talking about the why andthe how, you know, behind the
movie, the movies that he makesand why he's, why he is like

(34:52):
super picky, you know, and tosee someone really take pride
and care behind what he thinksthe audience, the audience,
audiences would want, um, youknow, and and movies that he

(35:13):
would want to watch.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
So yeah, okay, have you heard of american primeval?
I have, I need to watch it.
I I tell you what with AmericanSaga and you know, kevin
Costner's and this AmericanPrimeval dude, oh my God, it
sets the tone for the Western.
Yeah, it sets the tone for theWestern world and I think we're

(35:36):
going to end up having moreWesterns like that, more gritty,
you know, almost like theRevenant.
Yes, gritty you know, almostlike the revenant.
Yes, yeah, and I tell you whatamerican primeval and I'm not
sponsored by them or trying toget any kickback, but it has to
be the number one series thatI've ever watched on any

(35:58):
platform whatsoever.
And, um, the guys behind it,peter berg.
You know who, peter berg?
yeah he's behind it.
They made sure, uh, they hadthe historians on it, they, they
had, uh people to make surethat the natives, uh they
represented them appropriately.
So, yeah, oh yeah, they, theyreally brought their a-game.

(36:20):
And I tell you what one thingyou don't hear about, but in
this story you do, is themeadows massacre.
You know what?
That is correct yeah,unfortunately.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
Yeah, it's they.
It's a shame, you know, and Idon't want to get off into that
kind of a tangent, but it's ashame that the natives were
treated um, you know, they never, you know, they welcomed us
into their land and, yeah, they,we had no business treating
them that way.
So, um, you know, and I have alot of um natives, um, that are

(36:55):
friends from like a lot ofdifferent nations, so, yeah, um,
so yeah, so I, I love moviesthat represent natives the way
they should be represented.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
Oh, yeah, well, the thing is is the Meadows Massacre
was LDS.
They try to make it seem likethe natives killed their own,
but it was LDS, right.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
They put a.
I swear, I swear, I live, welive with a lot of lds people
here.
You do not hear a peep aboutthis show, but I tell you what
the people that aren't lds andwatch it they're like oh my god,
have you seen this?
Oh my gosh, and it reallybrings bringer young into a bad
light.
Dude, basically, yeah, yeah,they.

(37:45):
They basically make it soundlike that, uh, and look like
that.
There's the savages and thenatives were just doing anything
they can to survive man, and itwas.
Yeah, it's really good.
I think that has to be the bestshow, best, uh, portrayal of

(38:06):
the west that I've ever seen.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
Yeah, about the american primeval.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
Yeah, I have to watch that six, six episodes in, I
think they're like 40s, 50they're.
They're all different.
Uh, time wise.
But yeah, man, okay, we could.
We could definitely talk moremy favorite, my favorite
spaghetti westerns.
Man, there's nothing like clinteastwood just coming in with
this one-liners and basicallydon't give up.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
You know up and then, you know, and then you're going
to charlton heston and oh yeah,um, you know jimmy stewart, and
oh yeah yeah, the old guard.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
Oh yeah, man, yeah, it's a good stuff, good stuff.
And then what else uh, dancingwith the wolves brought that
epic story and then opelousa.
I mean yeah, open range with.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
Oh yeah, I was going to say open range.
I actually own that one.
They brought it back to.
Yeah, it's one of my favorites.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
Oh yeah, so Westerns.
Okay, we got a lot in commonthan we think and know man.
So veteran photographer,daylight you ever take more
daylight pictures.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
Yeah, trying to think .
Mostly, I would say most of thedaylight pictures I've probably
taken have been at um, likeeither car shows or um, I um
used to go, uh, when the NHRAwould stop here, um, I would, I

(39:46):
would, I would take a ton ofpictures from, uh, the races, um
, so yeah, so that's yeah, dragracing, oh gosh, I think.
I think I think my dad took meto my first one, my first um
like big drag meet um when I wasprobably like five or six years

(40:07):
old.
The old, the old beelinedragway um back when the ahra
was still in existence.
Okay, um, yeah, seeing, andlike tom, like like don
prudhomme, was like kind of oneof my heroes growing up.
Um, um, yeah, I drive, you know, driving that the the U S army
funny car.
Okay, yeah, all right.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
There's a thing, the saying, that I like to put out
there, cause it's a saying thatI don't really live by, but I
started and I'd like livevicariously through you
photographers.
It's stop and smell the roses.
Have you heard me saying that?
I have yeah what is your?

(40:52):
What's your thought on some?

Speaker 2 (40:53):
stop and smell the roses so I I think it's um don't
focus so much on the just onthe on the um on the destination
.
Don't focus so much on the onthe on the um on the destination
.
Don't focus on the destinationso much that you miss the
journey to get there.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
So yeah, so absolutely, absolutely, like you
know, live it live in themoment.
And when you have the chance tocapture something you know on
camera, do it.
So Did you always have thatmindset, I think yeah, I think

(41:50):
after COVID I really really didthat and losing some of my
friends how the fragility andlike, how fragile life is.
You know that at the end of theday, no one's going to people
to see that you've captured.
You know there's always goingto be something for someone to

(42:21):
remember you by.
So that's kind of part of themindset that I have, like with
photography.
Yeah, so, so, yeah, and that,and just the fact that every
sunrise and sunset, um, isunique.
You'll never see the same onetwice, right?

(42:42):
Um, yeah, so that's part of it.
Yes, but I, as far as takingpictures during the daylight,
that I am absolutely trying todo more of and I've been able to
do more of that, like you know,out running, I try to take
pictures all the time, yeah, Viaphone or with your profession,

(43:05):
you know, at the restaurant.
I always try to take picturestoo, so Okay, via phone or your
camera.
Most of it's with my phone, um,but I do still take the camera
out, um, especially like on theweekends, um, you know, I'll

(43:26):
take the camera out, um, andjust go hiking, you know, and um
, yeah, thankfully, like, mostof my gear is like super light,
so I can, you know, go prettyfar, you know, far out back yeah
, okay, now is there a specialplace, because I, I sometimes it

(43:47):
seems like you're in the sameplace, but just it's a different
day.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
Is that true?
I'm, it is yeah, you're veryobservant.
Um man, I a, uh, I my job, uh,I'm like a behavioralist, you
know, but I also know, uh, Ikind of uh.
I pretty much read a lot intothings and pretty much spot on.

(44:13):
I believe I think my friendswould know or the acquaintances
will know.
My wife would definitely say,yes, yes, it's annoying, he's
almost like on the spectrum.
But where is your place, dude?
Where is not where you live,but where is that place that you
continue to take the pictures?

Speaker 2 (44:32):
All right, the pictures all right.
So, um, the majority of themost recent sense of pictures
that I've taken, there is a parkthat it's.
It's basically just a city park, but the way they built it is
so cool because it's elevated soyou actually have to drive up
to it.
So and there's there's a lot toit.

(44:58):
They have a huge, like a huge,dog park, they have an archery
range, which is cool, and theyand they also have an around it
which I run on a lot.
Ok, so, but if you go to start,there's certain places in the

(45:22):
park where you can see kind ofover everything and you can have
a clear view of the of thehorizon.
So, so, yeah, so a lot of therecent sunset pictures that I've
taken are from this park.
It's uh, it's called piseo vistarecreation okay yeah, so I have

(45:43):
a clear view of um the um, thenear we call.
I call it the near, likewestern mountain range okay, so,
nice, but yeah, it's basicallylike south mountain, like the
south mountain range.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
So they really had to think of that, because I mean
disc golf and then archery, andthen running.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
I mean you put those together, something's destined
to happen, bad you know, and sothey really thought that out oh
yeah, so so it's kind of coolthe way the archery range is,
because they so they have thearchery range way at the
northern end of the park, so sowhere the direction that they

(46:30):
have to shoot is, or that you doshoot when you're there, um,
everything goes off to the northand there's nothing behind it.
So yeah, yeah, so they, theytotally thought out like the
safety thing and they have likebig, huge, like um, it's almost
like a little valley, almost theway they have it set up.
There's, there's rocks, um.

(46:52):
They have like a rock, um berm,like all the way around it.
So all right, yeah, so, yeah.
So it's pretty cool seeing umpeople out there shooting from,
you know like old cowboy hunters, to um, you know, you know um
like teenage girls.
You know just out shooting umand kids, kids as well, you know

(47:14):
shooting with.
You know with just out shootingum and kids kids as well, you
know shooting with.
You know with with their, uh,their, their, their, their,
their parents.
So yeah, so it's, it's sothat's pretty cool to to see.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
Yeah, it's almost like uh back in those parks how
they did theirs.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
Oh yeah, absolutely yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
Minus the shooting range, because shooting range
we're always in BFE Mm-hmm, yeah, no, kidding, yeah, yeah, well,
that's cool, that's cool,that's a civilian shooting range
for you.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
All right, all right.
Do you miss it?
Do you miss the military life?

Speaker 2 (47:58):
Some days, yes, um, because it was a more simple
life.
You know you knew what you hadto do every day, um.
But then I remember you knowthe 2 am like drug tests.
Like I was never like intodrugs, but it was always kind of
a pain in the ass.
You know when you have to wakeup in the morning and you know
to do like a 2 am piss test,that part I don't miss.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
You know what I always loved doing, though
because of that I was alwaysthat prick that always gave
whoever was the peepee watcher ahard time.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
I never thought about doing that, no.
Oh man, yeah, no, I.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
Hey, cause it was usually like sometimes it was.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
You know, it would be like a like an office, like a
junior officer, it'd be like alieutenant, like a butter bar,
oh yeah, oh yeah.
Like if they couldn't find somebuck, sergeant, um, you know,
or somebody, yeah they, they'dhave a like a butter bar or
something like that?

Speaker 1 (49:00):
hey, well, I did not discriminate, man, and I was in
from bush to obama, right, and Itell you what it was a huge
difference, man, oh I'm surethis test, and I tell you what I
loved messing around the obamayears because, dude, it made it
even more uncomfortable.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
So what we did was just make life miserable for the
pp watchers yeah, now, now thatyou mention it, because I was
like when I, when I first wentin, I was in at the end of Bush
senior and then, for you know,most of the Clinton years you
know, so yeah, so yeah, I kindof thought that you mentioned

(49:44):
that.
I did kind of notice thedifference too.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
Heck, yeah, it's a huge difference, man, huge
difference.
Now the people watching wouldsay, no, it it's yeah.
They would say good times, man,good times.
One thing, and I don't talkabout military service on air,
so if you don't mind, I don't.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
No, not at all, it's all good.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
I never talk about it because I did enough to get
disability right.
Yeah, talk about it because Idid enough to get disability
right.
Yeah, medically retired, likenot the va but but the army, and
the one thing that I miss inthe army, the camaraderie man
that's that's, yeah, I knowthat's one thing I miss and I

(50:30):
think the one thing that bringsit back, because I do isolate
myself.
I do.
I am a loner.
Yeah, I have a podcast.
Well, blah blah.
I know a lot of people buteverybody knows me as the loner
and so.
But the one thing that trailrunning has brought to me in my
life is the camaraderie.
It's almost the same.

(50:51):
It's just you're not a guy inarms.
You know what I mean.
Yeah, you don't.
Do you have a battle buddy?
Maybe if they run with you, butoutside of that, you know, it's
just that feeling when you goto the aid station and people
were there for you.
You know, no matter what, youknow they want you to get the
mission done.

(51:12):
That's what trail runningbrings to me.
Now, would I do it?
Would I do the military lifeagain?

Speaker 2 (51:20):
do it over, nah nah, oh I, I, I would in a heartbeat,
but I joined the air force yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
I wish I was smarter and did something like that way
I'm.
I'm here to tell you way betterchow halls, way better barracks
well, the bxs too, man, the bxswere the top notch, you know,
top of the line, uh, stuff thatyou can buy besides the px.
But now it's all joint base nowand now you get.

(51:49):
You know the life of the px andthe bx and you know the air
force and army.
Hardly any air force go to thearmy shop so but the army guys
go to the air force shop becauseoh yeah, you know, like louis
vuitton purses and stuff likethat and their bx's yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
So that's a huge difference, huge well, I was
gonna say back in the old days.
I think it was Z Cavaricci andKenwood Stereos when I was in.
It goes to show you how longit's been since I was in.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
Yeah, the plates, the plated disc man.

Speaker 2 (52:26):
Yeah, yeah yeah, man how time has changed, huh.
Oh, it's crazy that you canliterally be out there running,
because I listen to satelliteradio when I run, so you know,
and I get a signal you know,thankfully, just about
everywhere.
So, yeah, it's, it's crazy howfar we've come yeah, what

(52:50):
station do you listen to?
so usually, oh gosh, like I'mI'm a bit of a rocker, so
probably like I'll flip back andforth between, like, turbo
lithium and, um, ozzy's boneyard, so you kind of get a little
bit of just about everythingyeah, have you noticed?

Speaker 1 (53:09):
and I do the serious xm a lot, not on my runs but in
my car right but, have younoticed they changed, uh, their,
their, uh, formula of coming.
You know, putting music out,they normally before, maybe like
two, three years ago, they usedto play bands that you never
even heard of and you're like,who is this?

(53:31):
And you know you go to lithium,oh man, who do you?
You know you go to Lithium, ohman, who do you go to?
You know you listen to Lithiumfor a bit and like who is this?
Like right, and then now theyjust play the big wigs, man, the
good stuff.
You know they play like thehidden gems of Def Leppard, you
know ZZ Top.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
And now it's like I listen to Hair Nation and I know
all the songs, man you know,and it's just yeah, I was gonna
say that's, that's another greatone um hair nation dude.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
Classic rewind and hair nation are number one on
mine.
Octane has changed to butt rock, as people like to say, but
yeah every now and then I'll hitthat up, but I'd rather listen
to hair nation turbo.
Oh yeah, uh, liquid metal.
Sometimes, when I'm really inthe mood, liquid metal is really

(54:25):
good.
But ozzy boneyard.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Okay, all right yeah, well, and that and I'll, um,
I'll switch on uh classic vinylfrom time to time because you
know I'm I'm always like zz top,like probably one of my
all-time favorites, um and um, Ilove that.
I don't know if you've seentheir their net, their netflix

(54:48):
documentary.
Um, yeah, they, they kind of gothrough like how the band
started and like their love forhot rods and, um, yeah, kind of
like how they they rose fromplaying in bars and you know,
throughout texas, um, you knowtexas and louisiana, and my dad

(55:11):
was telling me like how him andhis buddies, like they actually
followed zZ Top around in theirearly days when you know, when
they were just basically playingbars, yeah and um, yeah, and
got to see them play, you know,in a big boy stadium.
Um, quite a few times.
So, yeah, so that's why I havethe.
I don't know if you've seen thetattoo.
I'll have to send you a pictureof it sometime.

(55:32):
I have a tattoo on my right arm, okay, yeah yeah, wow, man, you
are a fan.
Yeah so.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
Yeah, they're lyrics.
When you're young, you're likepearl necklace, and then, when
you get older, you're like yeah,yeah, and then, when you get
older, you're like oh wow.
That's yeah.
And then when you get older,like, oh, wow, that's not what
that really means, yeah, yeah.
And then you know same as kisstoo.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
You know love gun.
You know you're like, uh, yeah,you know it's like you start
listening to a lot of thesesongs later on in life.
I was like wait a minute, likewow, like they actually put this
out.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
Yeah, yeah, dude, it's great.
They were masters of the craftback in the day.

Speaker 2 (56:17):
Oh, yes, yeah and then you start you know, and
then you go deeper into, likeyou know, Led Zeppelin you know,
and bands like that.
They're like, wow, okay, likethis is a really great song, but
I can't believe they put thatout there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh, man, goodtimes.
This is a really great song,but I can't believe they put
that out there.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
Yeah, oh man, good times Good times.
Man, okay, military, I don'tknow man, it just I don't talk
about it.
I love to hear other people'sstory.
I don't talk about it becauseit just left a bad taste in my
mouth.
You know, my dad did 24, my, mygranddad.

(57:00):
He did his time in uh, worldwar ii and korean and you know,
got shot up and everything elseme.
I tell you what I got, that uh,that anthrax shot five of them
in one sitting.
People question that, um, don'tpeople question that.

(57:20):
I'm like, don't bring it to me,please don't bring it to me.
But I got five in one sittingand my body seized up and I had
to learn how to walk, how tolearn how to do everything that
I do now and take advantage ofand um, that's why I don't
mentioned anything.
I still haven't told my storyon here and I'm not going to try

(57:44):
to tell it.
But um, I did mention it alittle bit on uh one podcast,
but not all of it.
but when I talk service brieflyand to the point, because the
bad taste man and yeah and when,when they find out that you're
broken or anything's broken, youknow they they pretty much spit

(58:07):
you out and they, yeah, theychew you up and spit you out.
Man, treat you like you'renobody and and yeah not seeing,
and to me that's wrong.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
I guess I think I think it was it's it's part of
who I am, you know, when you,when you, when you go for a lot
of a lot of your life, you knowI was.
I was teased and bullied a lotwhen I was a kid because I was
like really small but I kindkind of looked like like a
bobblehead doll if you will.
Like I had like an adult sizehead with a kid's body.

(58:38):
So I got teased for that a lotwhen I was a kid and um.
So when, when I grew, when Igrew up right I've I had a
growth spurt like later, a lotlater on, you know um and um and
then you know going like goingthrough life and seeing how

(58:59):
people treated each other to meI I don't know where, like where
, the moment happened, but Ijust realized somewhere along
the way that it's a lot easierjust to accept people where
they're at and for who they arethan to try to judge them when

(59:24):
you've never walked one step intheir shoes.
Military service if you raisedyour right hand and you put
those boots on, it doesn'tmatter if it was for one day or
for 30 years.
You know, I kind of treateverybody the same.
Like at least you rate, youhave the guts to raise your
right hand.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
A lot of people don't or refuse to yeah you know, so
yeah, yeah, and then, and thenyou know the, the five shots,
and then you know cancer doesn'trun in my family.
And here I am.
I have like some anomalyongoing, like lifetime ongoing

(01:00:05):
version of uh hodgkin's lymphoma.
Tell, tell me, tell me, allright, I'm not know.
People probably think I'm aconspiracy theorist, but
something, something's notadding up, dude.
And so what is it?

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
Somebody yeah, no, listen, it's everything's a
conspiracy until it happens.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
And man has a lot of things happen.
I'm just saying.
I'm just saying to you, I'mjust saying, I'm just saying.
I'm just saying too.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
I'm just saying hey, listen, if we had time we could
go down a seven-hour rabbit hole.
Oh yeah, trust me, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
Maybe for later.
But somebody was talking to me,a civilian, never been in the
military or anything else, wastalking to me.
I would say a buddy, yeah, good, I would say a buddy.
Yeah, I would say a buddy, um,not too much, but I just work
with him.
And he was saying, like isn'tit weird that all ex-military

(01:01:08):
are right side and, you know,and very fascist and you know,
believe in the Nazism?
And I'm like, not really, Idon't, I don't what's.
You know, what's your take onthat, what's your definition on
that?
I was like you know what and Iwanted to tell him.
I wanted to tell him, like dude, I don't think it's that way.

(01:01:31):
I think it's just because we'vebeen there, done that.
Like dude, I don't think it'sthat way.
I think it's just because we'vebeen there, done that, we've
seen a few things and we know afew things, that we choose to
just not let things go.
We just choose not to say ourpiece.
Yeah, exactly, but that blew mymind because it's just like I,

(01:01:59):
I was never a fan of thegovernment, never a fan, all
right, and if you want me toquit, you know I'll, I'll quit.
And uh, being in the military,seeing what I saw doing the
things I did, seeing my buddies.
You know I was, I was in rightwhen they were before 22,.
You know 22 a day, you know,and seeing that and going

(01:02:19):
through that makes you really,really think about things.
You know.
And you lose a few friends foroverdose, that you know.
Pill parties do happen.
You lose some buddies doingthat.
They never straighten out theirlife.
You know it hits a little hardand home and it just makes you
lose some buddies doing that.
They never straighten out theirlife.
You know it hits a little hardand home and it just makes you
question some things.
So I don't think it's so muchright wing, it's just so much I

(01:02:43):
don't give up, you know yeah, no, I totally agree.
And yeah, it's just weird howeverything's labeled, you know,
and that blew my mind, man, when, when he said, you know,
majority of the military areright-wing fascist nazis, I was
like what?

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
I think first of all, yeah, I was just like no, like
I would.
The first question I would askthem.
I'd be like have you ever puton a military uniform, because
if you haven't, you have nobusiness calling anyone who
served in the military that yeah, man, it just blew my mind.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
I'm like, man, they're, they are so out of it,
man.
And to do that I was like, okay, well, maybe that buddy's
acquaintance now, because, wow,because wow it is.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
It is so profound how the mass media has corrupted
people's minds into believinglies oh, yeah, but and you say
otherwise I got you, and I don'tI?

(01:03:56):
It's been a while since I'veread orwell, but it goes into a
lot of like what orwell wroteand also um the um.
I haven't read the book, but itwas the movie good night and
good luck.
Um you, where they talk aboutthe early censorship of the news

(01:04:19):
.

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
And you know the kind of the story, the origins of
Edward R Murrow and how he kindof took on the government to
keep speech free when it comesto the.
You know, the media, you know,whereas the media, from day one,
pretty much wanted to censoreverything.

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
So, you know, the government wanted to censor the
media and now we're hearing thatthe government paid for a lot
of the media.

Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
Gee, imagine that man .
Yeah, yeah, the times we livein, right?

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
yeah, you know, you know, orwell's just laughing in
his grave right now like yeah,yeah yeah, man, good times, good
times.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
I remember growing up and, uh, you know people saying
, uh, mel Gibson and OliverStone are off their rocker and
now, like it, what's going on,man you know.
And Oliver Stone, they kickedhim to the curb because dude's
been spitting the truth foryears.
And look what's going on.
Yeah, it's, it's kind of kindof interesting time, man, kind

(01:05:33):
of interesting, yeah, thepoliticizing.
And man, yeah, it's out of handdude.
So when it comes to that I trynot to say anything.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
But, yeah, the one thing that the military brought
to me that I really miss andenjoy is the camaraderie man,
camaraderie, man, camaraderieyeah, and me too, and and what
you said about trail running man, is that's, that's, it's, it's
about 90% of the reason why I doit.

(01:06:07):
Um, the other five percent isprobably physical and mental
right, but, um, yeah, there's,it's such an amazing community.
We all kind of support eachother.
We actually all do support eachother.
You know whether it's.
You know the elites that are upthere.
You know.
You know getting the goldentickets or us back to the
Packers.
You know, or at least I canspeak for myself as the back of

(01:06:29):
the Packer.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
I gotcha, I gotcha.
I gotcha, yeah, yeah, yeah andyeah, it's, it's, it's, it's
pretty cool.
It's pretty cool and you knowthe elite runners.
There's some humble ones, butthen there's also non-sub humble
ones right, we won't go thereexactly.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
Yeah, I've been lucky .
Like most of the ones that I'vemet are actually super nice
people that are willing to giveyou advice.
Like I had a chance to go on agroup run with Scott Schrager
he's, I think his handles runfaster on Instagram yeah, super

(01:07:06):
like super nice guy, him and hisgirlfriend, callie like super
nice people.
And yeah, and I told him like,yeah, I've only Callie like
super nice people.
And yeah, and and I, I, I toldhim like yeah, I've only.
You know, I've been trailrunning for a couple of years,
so I'm still um trying to masterthe descents.
And he's like, yeah, he's likeyou.
Just it just takes practice,man, you know it's like he like

(01:07:28):
I don't think anybody's everborn with you know that skill of
lying down the downhills.
He's like, you just have topractice.
So yeah, man, just the strengthtrain, build those quads up.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
So oh, yeah, yeah, but I've been hitting those
quads.
I've been hitting because ofthe weather so unpredictable and
I don't want to slip and falllike I did the other day just
getting out of my truck.
Man, I hit my head so hard, manit just.
But I've been hitting the stairclimber and talk about quad
killing man I've been doing.

(01:08:00):
I've been doing, uh, you know,98 floors.
I like how when you go on thestair climber they have the
landmarks, and so I've done theeiffel tower, the us uh bank
Tower.
So I do all that and I tell youwhat, after when you get to 60
or 70 and you have 30 left andyou're going on 11 or 12, you

(01:08:24):
know level, it starts hurting.
I believe it's hurting, butyeah, good times, good times.

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
Yeah, I was going to say I, I mean it doesn't matter
if you're out on the mountain orif you're on the rock in the
stair climber man vert is vert,it'll catch up to you yes, but
you know what?

Speaker 1 (01:08:43):
there's also a thing I'm a big stickler too when it
comes to gym equipment.
You know, people they're howthey run, not how they run, but
they run too far up, you know,to the the dials.
And then people who do thestair climber they don't take
the stairs, they just they walkon the last stair.

(01:09:06):
You don't do that, you got togo in the middle, go in the
middle and do it.
So I'm a huge stickler and Isee so many people doing the
stair climber wrong and I don'twant to be, you know, a little
arrogant, but I'm just like stepdown a bit, step down, get that
full range man yeah all rightman.

(01:09:32):
So what are you training for?

Speaker 2 (01:09:34):
so yeah, so my next race is um may 9th.
It's um that, I think theyrenamed it, and it was um eldon
crest.
I think it's still all in crestum the ellen crest 39, so it's
oh okay.
It's basically a 39 miler fromum port tut hill state park to
downtown flagstaff, so it's likepart of the last 39 miles of

(01:09:56):
the Cocodona 250 course.

Speaker 1 (01:09:58):
Yeah, that's going to kick your ass.
Man, it's going to kick yourass, oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
But yeah, I'm kind of coming back from a little bit
of a hip abductor strain, soit's about close to 70% now.
So yeah, so once the PT and myrunning coach, eve, once they
kind of take the reins off, I'llbe doing some of the longer

(01:10:31):
stuff up north to get some ofthat elevation training in,
because it's pretty far up.
It's about eight, eighty, fouror five hundred feet yeah, yeah,
that's good.

Speaker 1 (01:10:41):
And and having a hip issue too.
Oh my goodness, you're gonna gobig and go home, man oh yeah,
gosh well I, I, I pray, you know, you stay healthy.
Oh, I tell you what once youget at a certain age I know

(01:11:01):
you're older than me, man, butyou know I had back surgery.
I've had since back surgery,I've had a torn meniscus you
know, everything starts fallingoff and going downhill.
But I hope it's the other wayaround, for for you, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:11:19):
Yeah, I'm praying for you, for your treatments too,
buddy.

Speaker 1 (01:11:21):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, the so the thing is isthat I finished all the
treatment they.
It's a less invasive, it's morelocal, but if you read more
about it, it's almost as bad aschemo and radiation put together
.
But you know the one thing youdon't do is lose your hair, but
man it seems like seems likeeverything else gone to shit,

(01:11:42):
you know, and uh feels like yougot hit by a bus every treatment
.
But I took care of it rightafter I got.
I got back from vegas to theend on the 4th of January Four
treatments in four weeks and theheadaches were the worst part
too.
But I have a PET scan on the19th and then see the doctor and

(01:12:09):
then I go from there on howoften I see the doctor for life.
So yeah, every four to sixmonths, that's what they're
saying.
And then I have to be supervigilant on the bumps, lymph
nodes and stuff like that.
And yeah, it's crazy, lymphnodes we have man.

Speaker 2 (01:12:32):
I tell you, I thank you for putting that, that
planting that seed.
You know to kind of payattention to your body, because
I definitely do a lot, a lotmore of that now man, it's scary
.

Speaker 1 (01:12:43):
I never thought you need you wait.
You know you wake up whenyou're a kid.
You, you know, you, you doeverything as a kid and you see
movies or know people.
Barely anybody had cancer whenyou're growing up, right.
But when they did, you know itwas all Hollywood, something

(01:13:03):
like that.
You never thought you'd getcancer.
And then here you are, you getcancer.
It's like, oh my God, what do Ido with myself?
I'm like am I alone?
Come to find out.
You're not alone.
But, dude, it feels like it,because it's a, it's a different
world, man.
And I'll tell you, from themoment I found out that I had

(01:13:25):
cancer, I knew something was up.
But the moment they diagnosedme, they said I had cancer but
didn't tell me what kind thosetwo weeks that you had to wait.
You talk about binge drinking.
You talk about like oh yeah,dude, reckless thinking.
Oh my goodness, I I will neverforget that and I don't ever

(01:13:48):
want to go back.
But, um, yeah, that that's thescariest part, man.
That's the scariest part of thewhole ordeal.
Outside of that, the treatmentsare are okay.
They're.
Cancer centers are so muchdifferent than regular hospitals
, man, you know it.
There there's a reason whythose, those people work there

(01:14:11):
and they're very caring, veryinsightful and loving people,
man.
I've never even witnessed thatin my life.
You know, here I was, you know,out of going in well, being in
the army, treated like crap,because you know I couldn't pull
a trigger.
You know that's what I mean.
You know that's how they baseit on, you know, and here I am

(01:14:31):
and they're caring for me for meas a person, not a stat, not a
number.
Yeah, it's just.
It was uplifting to just bepart of that and know that.
You know there are some lovingpeople out there, so that's good
.
Well, I'm glad that you're ableto to have the strength to run
oh yeah, oh man, I tell you whatif I, if, if I have to walk, I

(01:14:55):
have to walk and I don't mindputting you know on my chorus, I
don't mind putting a walkingsession, you know, and mentally,
mentally is nerve-wracking, butI'm still working on it.
It's a work in progress oh yeah, it's a work in progress.
That's why I do the run coffeerun on my strava, you know, and

(01:15:19):
and if that, that coffee isnormally just walking until I
finish that coffee and then Irun after it.
Yeah, 11 minute, 12 minutemiles, it's all right I don't
care.
Yeah, absolutely yeah hey manmiles are miles.
Yes, yes, so do you domountains yeah yeah, what's?

(01:15:44):
What's your go-to mountain downthere, man?

Speaker 2 (01:15:45):
oh, gosh, um, probably my favorite.
Um gosh, there's so many Iwould.
But my favorite, though, isprobably um the trip up scenic,
um the scenic trail at mcdowellmountain, um, just because you

(01:16:06):
can see from there, you can seethe four peaks, um, you can kind
of see the superstition, so youcan kind of get a view of just
about everything yeah yeah, so,yeah, so that's probably my
favorite, um, but that's onlybecause I haven't run in the San
Francisco peaks yet, which I'llget a chance to this year.

Speaker 1 (01:16:29):
Nice.

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
Nice, so so that that could probably change.

Speaker 1 (01:16:35):
Is it McDowell, the same mountain Chris mentioned.

Speaker 2 (01:16:40):
Yeah, so that's, that's where they have, like the
Javelina hundred.

Speaker 1 (01:16:48):
Yep, okay, yeah, so, okay, yeah.
So that's that's where theyhave, like um had the javelina
100.
Yep, okay, yeah, so, okay yeahthe san francisco hills man,
yeah, have you done.
Have you thought about doinghumphreys?

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
have I thought about doing what?
Humphreys, oh humphreys, ohgosh.
Yes, absolutely yeah, because Isee I see guys like Jeff
Browning and Pete Mortimer likeup there, you know, hiking and
running it, yeah, so that'ssomething I would, I would love
to like conquer, so did thatlast year.

Speaker 1 (01:17:19):
I was down there and definitely enjoyed it.
It was almost this.
It felt like Mount Hood, minusthe snow.
You know, when you hear aboutHumphreys, people are like, oh,
it's so many roots.
You know it's a, it's a hell ofa mountain, but it's there.

(01:17:42):
And then a ski resort is half,pretty much halfway up the
mountain.
You know, yes, it's the tallestpeak, but, man, I thought there
was more to it, I thought therewas more desolation.
You know isolation.
Yeah, that's a mountain,everybody wants to get on, just
like hood, but minus the snow atthe time.
Yeah, you got to check it out,you got to check it out, you got

(01:18:04):
to try it.
Man, it's, it's really nice.
And, uh, the the flagstaffportion, it's not.
You don't see too muchflagstaff when you're on there,
but it I think it's north, northdude, that view is to die for.
The grand canyon view, it's ohmy gosh yeah, I, um, I'll

(01:18:29):
definitely try.

Speaker 2 (01:18:29):
I I will get some pictures of it.
Um, you know, this year umprobably I would say maybe
during elden crest.
I think I should be able to seeit when I run elden crest.
So I'll try and get somepictures of it yeah, that's man,
it's quite the mountain.

Speaker 1 (01:18:43):
But one thing I'll tell you, a little insider, that
I didn't know until the moment.
Um, so everybody trains there,the plaque staff, right,
everybody that lives there.
They do that.
Well, if you go take the, youknow, take the trail all the way
up, but don't take it all theway down.

(01:19:04):
Go to as the parking lot's onthe right, you know you hit the
trail Once you finish your peak,go down and then there's like
this ski run.
It's frowned upon, but thelocals go down the ski run

(01:19:24):
instead of down the trail.
And so much time and energy andankle busting that yeah, it's
like a little meadow area thatthey take and I was like so
pissed.
I was like dude, why hasn'tanybody passed me?
I know, I went up really fastand I know I wasn't the only one

(01:19:45):
coming down, but I'm like, whyam I the only one?
There's hardly anybody passingme, you know.
There's a couple runners, youknow, bombing down the trail,
but I'm like where is everyonegoing?
So I see this old guy, this, uh, 75 year old, he, you know,
he's like, oh, I'm 75 and I'mdoing this.
He was way back behind me, youknow.

(01:20:06):
And then I see him come down.
I was like I get it.
So that's one thing that theydon't tell you on, oh Drava, on
all trails A lot of people takethe ski run.
So just to let you know it's alot easier, man, that downhill
trail, dude, dude.

(01:20:26):
It's.
So many routes, so manytripping hazards.

Speaker 2 (01:20:31):
I don't know how people can bomb down that trail
like they did so any othermountains or runs oh gosh um, I
know I know um pass mountains agood one um near in uh u3 park,

(01:20:53):
that's.
That's another good one.
Um, love it there.
I I would say um, yeah, I'mtrying to think the uh, the
national forest, uh near near myparents house.
Um is really good because youcan just run forever and ever
and ever and not see anyone.
Um you'll see actually moreanimals than anything yeah, yeah

(01:21:15):
, that's a scary thing, that'sthat's.

Speaker 1 (01:21:17):
That's scarier than seeing people, man, because oh
yeah I, I've been there, donethat and I continue to do that.
You know, when it comes tobeing desolate and not seeing
anybody for hours and all of asudden you see somebody oh shit,
a animal, but it was a person.
You know.
You're like, yeah, but dude, itfreaks you out.
Freaks you out if you don't seeanybody for that long.

Speaker 2 (01:21:40):
I'm I'm kind of I'm kind of like fearless when it
comes to that.
Um, maybe I'm just like old andjust don't care, but I kind of
I kind of like that, like thatvulnerable feeling of being out
there, um alone, um, you know,out, especially in night races,

(01:22:02):
um yeah, I um you starthallucinating, yeah yeah, I know
it's it's.
It's kind of funny, like whenyou get tired you start to see
like dragons and it's likeyou're on shrooms, but you're
not, I know like, okay, like Iknow, that has to be a tree, not

(01:22:22):
a dragon.

Speaker 1 (01:22:23):
I just saw Right, that was not a person.

Speaker 2 (01:22:26):
That was a shadow, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, some of those storiesthat people have told me from
Cocodone are pretty legendaryBunnies, you know, bunnies
riding rocket ships, oh, yeah,big.

Speaker 1 (01:22:40):
Yeah.
I've had a couple of people onfrom Big bigfoot.
You know bigfoot 200 and yeah,the old native ground, they,
they see some things, man, theysee things, hear things, and uh,
especially this one area wherethe grounds are and they say
it's a trip, it's a trip.

Speaker 2 (01:23:03):
Yeah, I that's.
One thing I really kind of wantto do either this year or next
year is is run a race out ofstate somewhere.
They just have to picksomething.

Speaker 1 (01:23:15):
So yeah, Well, I mean , you got Vegas right there.
They have a few runs.

Speaker 2 (01:23:20):
Yeah, I kind of have my eye on the the Red Rock
Canyon ultras.
They happen every year inNevada, so it's kind of like a
little to the southwest of Vegas.
Yeah, but it looks like it'slike a.
It looks a lot like Sedona,except for not as many trees.
Yeah, just beautiful like RedRock Canyons.

(01:23:42):
And yeah, from from what I'veseen from the trails trails, man
, it's, it's, it's like it'sbeautiful, so yeah, what's your
go-to snack when you're training, for you know a long run oh
gosh, uh, as far as like thereal food um, not the

(01:24:02):
bioengineered stuff, like thegel, the stuff like that but my
go-to snack is probably,honestly, I would say like the
healthy stuff.
I would say Bobo's, I lovetheir oat bites.
Okay, yeah, especially theyhave an apple one.
That's really good.
Oat bites are pretty good.
And then we go off into thegood stuff Nerd's Gummy Clusters

(01:24:28):
, that's actually.
It's really good.
Like you get some pretty goodcalories and some decent carbs.

Speaker 1 (01:24:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:37):
And then during the winter months, I'll take a
handful of peanut M&Ms with me,because they don't, you know,
they have a less, they don'thave as great of a chance or
greater.
They have a greater chance ofmelting during the summer,
during the winter.
So yeah, that's why I only takethem out, like during the
winter.

Speaker 1 (01:24:57):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:24:57):
Yeah, so they won't melt on you.
You know when you're out there.
All right, what's the toughest?

Speaker 1 (01:25:03):
part.
Those are my go-tos what's thetoughest part of running that
long distance man for you um youlike isolation, that's not a
problem what is?

Speaker 2 (01:25:15):
the most difficult part for you you know what,
honestly, I, I I don't think,like I don't think I've hit that
yet.
I think, lucky, I think I've.
I've mentally trained my mindwith so much self-belief that I
can push through anything, umand that and and I'm thankful

(01:25:39):
for therapy, for teaching methat um, I, I can literally do
anything.
Um, like when I, when I, whenmy hip abductor flared up, um, I
was in mile, probably 14 or 15at across the years, and I
literally started hobbling, likethat's how bad it hurt.
Yeah, um, I, at no point did Iever think I was going to quit.

(01:26:03):
Like I will literally crawlacross that finish line if I
have to.
I've put in way too much timeand effort.
I know I can do this, you know,and thankfully I stopped during
the race and did like a coupleof quick like PT exercises to
get to calm down, was able to doyou know another eight and a
half miles, calmed down, wasable to do you know another

(01:26:28):
eight and a half miles.
Um, so, yeah, so that's so,that's I.
I, I think eventually I will.
There will something will comeup that will cause me to have
like a lot of self doubt, butthen I'll remember like how far
I've come in my life that I canaccomplish anything as long as
I'm physically able to.
Mentally, I'll always I'll be I, I, I.

(01:26:51):
Right now, I feel like I couldrun Coca-Dona right now,
mentally.
I know physically I can't, justbecause I don't have the
training for it, but but yeah, Imean that's it's been such a
huge part of my life now is umjust the self-belief that I have
.

Speaker 1 (01:27:05):
Yeah, well, I mean, if you go 15 years of sobriety,
man, yeah, you're mentally toughdude For real.
Yeah, I'm serious, I meanpeople are like oh yeah, you
just don't drink for 15 years.
It's tough, so it'll, so it'llactually so it'll be.

Speaker 2 (01:27:24):
It'll actually so it'll be 15, it'll be.
And and this is another part ofit is it was literally so quick
story.
So it was a month or less thana month before the 4th of july
and so it was june 8th.
That's like my official like.
When my recovery started and Iasked my recovery mentor at the

(01:27:50):
time, I had like 28 days in.
I'm like, hey, I've got ticketsto this concert in lombi.
You know which was at the time.
It was, um, it was mayhem fest2010.
So it was like god, five fingerdeath pines, rob zombie, yeah,
shadows fall.
And, um, I was like, shouldLamb of God, five Finger Death
Pines, rob Zombie, shadow's Fall?
And I was like, should I stillgo to this concert?
He's like, if you don't, I willliterally punch you, because he

(01:28:13):
was a guitarist in a band thatopened for 7Dust.
Okay, yeah.
So he was like he's like gohave fun.
And he had me just check inwith him every so often, so
often, yeah, from the show.
So yeah, which, in hindsight,is 2020.
Like during the show, seeingall the people that were like

(01:28:35):
passing out and had to have ivsput in them, you know, for
dehydration man, it was like man, I'm like, I'm like, I'm glad
I'm them Right.

Speaker 1 (01:28:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, like I told you uh the
inflammatory like mentaltoughness thing.

Speaker 2 (01:28:52):
You're absolutely right.
It comes with years of recovery.
Almost in June it'll be 15years, so like 14 and almost 15
years.
Um so, yeah, so it's.
I've had to build that mentaltoughness, toughness really, and
it's really taken place overthe last probably two years.

(01:29:12):
You know that I've that, I'vebeen able to do, do that, as far
as you know, belief in my totalbelief in myself and what I can
do.

Speaker 1 (01:29:21):
Yeah, what?
What stops you?
What has stopped you for 15years thinking about it, not
even picking it up?
And you don't mind me asking,do you?

Speaker 2 (01:29:34):
No, not at all, um, I would say death, because the
last time I drank I had to berevived by the paramedics.
Okay, okay, so, yeah, so thatthere's there's always that
healthy fear Like this is whatcould happen.
And I may not be as lucky thistime to have someone literally
call the paramedics on my behalf, Gotcha, to come in and get you

(01:29:55):
know to come and revive me,because one of the EMT is point
blank, said to my face, you were10 minutes away from dying of
asphyxiation.
So, okay, length.
Said to my face, you were 10minutes away from dying of
asphyxiation.
So, okay, all right, yeah, sothat's so.
I always tell people when, whenI share my story without
hesitation, like that, that maynot happen to you, but that's

(01:30:19):
what happened to me, so you know, you know there's always,
there's always that, thathealthy fear there, that and I
think I've just kind of builtthis life over the years of not
only just not drinking butbecoming a better person, a
kinder person, um, you know,with having not having like

(01:30:46):
chemicals in my brain, like that, and, um, having self-belief,
you know, being able to, um, youknow, believe, believe in
myself in a healthy way yeah,yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:31:01):
So besides the whole inflammatory you know I have
cancer and you know alcohol is ahuge inflammatory you know,
whatever it is um, one thingthat's really helping me out is,
like you said, death, um,seeing my dad die of cirrhosis

(01:31:23):
and kidney failure.
Man, is that an ugly way ofgoing out?
Never wanted to, even I don'twant to put my kids through it,
so that's another reason why Iam staying away from it, man.

Speaker 2 (01:31:40):
Yeah, I have to.

Speaker 1 (01:31:41):
I have to.
I can't.
I can't let my kids see me onmy deathbed like that.
That's the most disgustingthing you know, not just to your
personal well-being, but dudeyour environment.
Yes, like where you live.
It's not, it's ugly.
Let's just say that.

Speaker 2 (01:32:02):
It is, and I never judge anyone for something that
I used to do.
Like, if you want to partakeand go for it, I wish I could
join you, but I can't.
Um.
But anytime somebody asks mefor advice, like about recovery,
I'm always, will always give itto people, um, and I always say

(01:32:25):
that recovery is very selfish.
You have to want to do it foryourself first, but by doing it
for yourself, you're all.
You're also doing it for thosearound you too, um, because it's
kind of like yeah, exactly,it's kind of a scenario about
the mask on the face in theairplane thing.

(01:32:46):
You know, put your own mask onfirst before you put, you know,
the mask on your.
You know those that are aroundyou.

Speaker 1 (01:32:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:32:54):
You know you have to save yourself first, but by
saving yourself you're alsosaving those around you from
what you could become bydrinking.

Speaker 1 (01:33:02):
Oh yeah, and, and you know, 15 years.
I didn't see my dad in 15 yearsbecause you know he didn't
isolate himself, he was just adrunkard, you know.
And uh yeah, seeing him for thefirst time in that bed was like
, dude, that's not my dad, youknow.
So that's that's scary man andseeing that I've man, god and

(01:33:26):
him being estranged and it's notthe life I want to live, man,
and you know, I, I, I was mostlya binge drinker, right and uh,
when I knew that, you know,throughout my life, uh, and if I
knew it was a problem, I'd quit.
So there's, there's been likethree years, five years, you

(01:33:47):
know, and then go back tobinging and then, you know, a
year without drinking Startedthe podcast.
It was Miles Mountains andBrews.
I was like I need to get rid ofthis because I've been getting
kids on.
You know, last thing I want,last thing I want, is parents to
think, you know, they're comingon a brew podcast.

(01:34:07):
So, yeah, best decision of mylife.
So I'm slowly but surelygetting the bruise out of my
life and it feels pretty good,man, and I think, I think I'm
gonna keep it out of my life,just because, yeah, dude, uh, I
mean, you know what cirrhosis ofthe liver does, right, oh, my

(01:34:27):
god, that is ugly, it is ugly.

Speaker 2 (01:34:32):
I've seen people from in their 30s all the way up
into their 70s die from it.
It's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:34:44):
I've seen a lot of deaths and that man that that
that hits, it hits different.
There's the it's ugly it isit's ugly man, the bloating
alone and the body dude?
Oh my god, yeah yeah, it's, Iknow.

Speaker 2 (01:35:04):
Pretty early on I remember, um, oh gosh, I think
his name was pat he actually hadto have part of his stomach cut
out, you know, because, um,alcohol basically just had
eroded it away.
So much you know.
And um, yeah, so, yeah, youknow, you know, knock on wood, I

(01:35:26):
didn't have any major healthproblems other than my weight,
you know from it and I've,thankfully, like over the years,
like, the further you get awayfrom it, your body starts to
repair itself.
You know, unless you havecirrhosis, obviously, or
jaundice or anything like that,you know that repair itself.
You know, unless you havecirrhosis, obviously, or
jaundice or anything like that,you know that's um, you know,

(01:35:49):
because it, um, it just man,like once you get that far gone
and then you go into like wetbrain and stuff like that, like
I've seen people with just sofar gone.
It's like, yeah, you just kindof want to live the best life
you can at that point.
But yeah, wet brain.

Speaker 1 (01:36:07):
Yeah, I didn't forget about that.
But I'm like, oh God, you bringit up and I'm like, damn it.

Speaker 2 (01:36:12):
I know it's it's.
I've only seen a few peoplewith it, but yeah, it's just.
Oh, man, it's like you can't.
You want to, but you can'tthey're too far gone.

Speaker 1 (01:36:29):
Yeah, too far gone, man.
So congrats, man, 15 years,thank you appreciate it.
And my battle, you know I'veit's been off and on and you
know I've had people tell meyou're better drunk than silver.
I'm like thanks, man, no,that's, yeah, that's you're no
longer my friend right, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:36:44):
So, you know, moving along, yeah, and eventually you
start to get new friends thatare like healthier, that like
support you no matter what andyeah, so that's that's.
That's kind of been a blessingfor me, like over the years you
know, especially the most recentyears with trail running.
It's kind of funny how, like, alot of people that I've met in

(01:37:06):
trail running are also inrecovery.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:37:11):
Well, a lot of people say you know this is almost
similar to you, know, I mean,it's an addiction.
You know it is an addiction.
It does take over lives.
But is it healthy?
Oh, a lot healthier than youknow alcohol.
But you can.
You can still do it for thewrong reasons, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:37:31):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:37:32):
You just have to be careful.
You know like take rest days.
Yes, yes, a lot of people don't, and then they end up getting
hurt and they don't know what todo with their life, and that's.
I have had a few conversationslike what if you get man?
Have you ever had it?
And then they come on mypodcast like, nope, never got

(01:37:52):
hurt.
Guess what?
A month later they end upgetting hurt and they don't know
what to do with themselves.
I'm like, oh, I jinxed you.
It's like my bad dude, don'tcome on the podcast don't?

Speaker 2 (01:38:00):
you don't want to hurt yourself, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:38:07):
How do you feel overall, man, with this episode?

Speaker 2 (01:38:10):
We're still going, oh yeah, no, it feels really great
.

Speaker 1 (01:38:14):
It's like a natural conversation with a friend, oh,
yeah, so we've been at it for anhour and 40 minutes.
Can you believe that?
Yeah, no it's gone by superquick.
Yeah, yeah, for real.
And uh, have you gone on yourrun today, or is it rest day
today?

Speaker 2 (01:38:31):
yeah, it's like a semi rest day, it's like a cross
training day today, so I'mprobably just gonna go hike
today just to get some time on,you know, on the old feet.
So oh yeah yeah and um, sheonly had me on for um for seven
miles yesterday, so so we'restill kind of like gradually
doing this build-up, um, becauseI'm still like three months out
from the race, so, um, and myfitness feels actually really

(01:38:54):
good so coming quick, man, Iknow it is, it is, it's, it is.
It is coming pretty quick.
So but yeah, I have no doubtI'll be, I'll be ready for elden
crust and the hip will be.
I actually feel, I feel likeafter yesterday, I I feel like
I'm I'm really kind of turningthe corner.

Speaker 1 (01:39:10):
So okay, are you doing across the years this year
?

Speaker 2 (01:39:15):
I am not um.
The reason for that is I planon doing either the 100 miler or
the 100k at the cold waterrumble next year okay um, yeah,
and that's like in early january.
It's like january, it's usuallythe first saturday in january
okay yeah, out at um estrellamountain, um, which is a
beautiful place, it's.
It's like that's like kind ofremote too.

(01:39:35):
Um, yeah, I ran just the fivemiler there, um, was it 2020?
Yeah, 2024?
Um, because I was kind ofcoming back um from the old, the
old runner, runner's knee thing, um, you know, where my knees
were in kind of bad shapebecause I wasn't doing like the
right stuff to get them, youknow, built, built up as far as

(01:39:59):
strength wise, um, but that'sall like gone now.

Speaker 1 (01:40:03):
So yeah, so I, I I did that race last year and got
to experience part of that, thatcourse, so okay I wanted to do
across the years and I thoughtyou know I was going to end up
doing it with you but the wholediagnosis and shout out to
aravipa and company man, for youknow, not canceling it.
But they said I have until like2026 to use the credit.

(01:40:28):
So yeah shout out to them, foryou know not canceling the whole
thing, but just let me allowingme to move it over, and I think
that that will be my only racethis year I'm doing doing mostly
mountains and just trying toget the love back into it and to

(01:40:49):
things, you know.
I mean I love running, it's mylife, it's my livelihood um
exploring and everything elsebut the racing you, you DNF so
many times it starts botheringyou because of injury, you know.
And so when injury comes up,you know, and so injury comes up
, you know.
Last year I was training forall these multiple day runs, end

(01:41:11):
up tearing my plantar fascia,oh, no you ever done that.

Speaker 2 (01:41:16):
No, no, I like thankfully, like, as far as far
as physical injuries, the onlytwo that I really had to deal
with was the whole like runner'sknee thing, um that, and then
this hip abductor, and that'spretty much it, thankfully.
But then again, I've only beendoing it for two years.
So you know, it's like one ofthose hold you know, hold my, uh
, my, beer moments.

(01:41:37):
We'll see what happens.

Speaker 1 (01:41:39):
Well, knock on wood.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the plantarfascia man, I think.
Of all of all injuries thatI've sustained, I think I would
rather have back surgery or backproblems than plantar fascia.

Speaker 2 (01:41:57):
Yeah, cause I mean blocking is everything.
I mean yeah, it's your wheels,man.

Speaker 1 (01:42:01):
Yes, mess with your wheels, and so I learned a yeah,
you have to get the block, it'syour wheels, man.
Yes, you can't mess with yourwheels.
And so I learned a lot, man.
I learned a lot that you alwayshave to listen to your body,
man.
That's what I learned in thepast few years.
And so race is not going to beon a hold, but I'm going to do
one and I'm going to stick withthe Crossy years.

(01:42:22):
I'm going to do the 48 hour one, and the next year I end up
doing the 72 and I'm going tomove up to six days.
That's, that's 48 hours.

Speaker 2 (01:42:36):
I would think you should, you should be able to do
at least, or like, close to ahundred miles.

Speaker 1 (01:42:42):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, uh yeah.
24 to 32 is definitely 100miles if you just sustain a 15
minute pace at least.
At least you're good if you go13, if you go 13, which I've
trained myself for 13 miles uh,you know, by walking, maybe
point 20 oh yeah, you know, youstill get 13 miles, you know.

(01:43:07):
So if you walk good, you knowgood session, you still get 13
minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:43:13):
So I've been doing that for the past few years yeah
, you'll, yeah, so I'll end updoing that.

Speaker 1 (01:43:19):
I'm gonna get a hold of them and get it all situated,
but I'll be down there,hopefully I'll.
I'll run into you, oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:43:27):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:43:28):
Do a lap or three.

Speaker 2 (01:43:29):
Oh, yeah, yeah, we'll like, we all like like to come
out for you know, for that eventand who knows I, you know I
could very well end up runningit again, you know it.
Just I have to see how theschedule, you know, shakes out.
But yeah, no, I definitelycould do a few miles as a
training run for sure whatwestern town besides where you

(01:43:54):
live you like to get away andjust relax in?
I would say for sure, like like.
Pinetop Lakeside, like where my,where my folks live, because

(01:44:16):
it's a small town, you know it's.
It reminds me of the oldArizona, you know, because I
know Pinetop Lakeside it's itwas.
It was probably an old loggingtown at one point.
I would say there, and I wouldsay Flagstaff as well, like the

(01:44:38):
older, the older part ofFlagstaff.
Yeah, it's still pretty cool upthere.

Speaker 1 (01:44:42):
I hate the parking in Flagstaff.
Oh yeah, it's kind of it's kindof a up there.
I hate the parking in Flagstaff.
Oh yeah, it's kind of it's kindof a downer Goodness.
I was like I don't want to goto Flagstaff after my, my summit
, you know.
I'm like I need to go somewhereelse that's not crowded and
more friendly.

Speaker 2 (01:44:58):
So yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:44:59):
Flagstaff parking is bad and then it's kind of bad
Parking is bad and then yeah,it's kind of bad.
Even to park at the college youhave to pay.

Speaker 2 (01:45:10):
I'm like are you kidding?

Speaker 1 (01:45:11):
me yeah, it's, it's nuts, nuts.
That's news to me, man, that is.
I was just taken back.

Speaker 2 (01:45:20):
I was like whoa, right, it's like.
It's like, ok, you rely on you,you rely on tourism as one of
your main sources of of incomeas a town.
Like, why would you want toforce people to pay to come to
your town and then have noparking, whatsoever.
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:45:40):
It's nuts.
I've never.
I've never witnessed that.
If all my my traveling to andfrom big cities, small towns,
whatever I've, that was theworst experience I've ever had
in a town when it comes toparking and traffic and busy.
It's like Flagstaff for real.
After that, I was like uh,flagstaff, I don't want to live

(01:46:03):
there.
After that, I was like uh,flagstaff, I don't want to live
there.
I'll live somewhere else, butnot there it's a nice town, but
yeah, press gets better.
Yeah, that's what I heard.
That's what I heard.
Yeah, what about?
Oh, okay, corral man, is it?

Speaker 2 (01:46:20):
worth going down there.
You know it's funny.
I feel bad for saying this.

Speaker 1 (01:46:24):
I've never actually been down there, I wanted to go,
yeah, like.

Speaker 2 (01:46:26):
Tombstone, yeah, that's.
That's like a part of Arizona,like I'm sure I was there as a
kid, I just don't remember it,so yeah, so there's two places
that I really want to go back toBisbee, just because there's a
lot.
There's like the historicsection of Bisbee.
They still have a lot of theoriginal buildings and there's a
lot of cool old cars down there.

Speaker 1 (01:46:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:46:49):
So I'd say Bisbee and probably Tombstone, two places
that you know that I'd reallylove to go back to.

Speaker 1 (01:46:56):
It was, uh, it was 115 degrees when I was doing you
know the mountains last yearand I'm all like, should I go
down to Tombstone, should I,should I?
You know the mountains lastyear and I'm all like, should I
go down to tombstone, should I,should I?
But I'm like, nah, if it's hotup here, it's gonna be hotter
than down there.

Speaker 2 (01:47:13):
and I'm like another time, another time.
Yeah, it's kind of funny.
You mentioned that it'sactually, once you get away from
, like, the city, like the mainpart of you know, know, phoenix,
and all of the suburbs, yeah,and you go down there, it's
actually a little bit cooler.
You know, it may not be 115.
It may be, like you know, 108.

(01:47:38):
Yeah but it's a huge difference,man, it's a huge difference.
Oh yeah, exactly yeah, when,honestly, like you can honestly
tell the difference.
This is, you know, comingcoming from somebody who grew up
here, you can tell thedifference between 115 and 108
to 105.
You can tell the difference.

Speaker 1 (01:47:54):
Definitely found out the difference in San Bernardino
and Lake Havasu.

Speaker 2 (01:48:00):
There's a huge difference.
There's a huge difference man,I love the heat man.
But Lake H like how is he man?
They just cook up there like itregularly hits, you know,
breaks the 120 up there duringthe summer.

Speaker 1 (01:48:13):
I couldn't, that's a little much I got out of the car
to get some gas.
I'm like dude, there's a breeze, but it's like a blow dryer.
I was like holy crap, this ishow it feels.

Speaker 2 (01:48:24):
Huh, no wonder it's a party town in a lake man, golly
yeah, if you ever wondered whata uh like a rotisserie chicken
at costco feels like, feels likea kavasu here you come, yeah,
yeah.
Come to arizona on a breezy ona 115, 115 degree day in the

(01:48:44):
summer when the wind's blowing.
Oh man, you just cook.

Speaker 1 (01:48:51):
And my goal for March or April, for spring break, was
to fly down to do Wheeler andGuadalupe, texas and New Mexico.
I speak still in the air, but Itell you what man flying right
now does not sound appealing.

Speaker 2 (01:49:12):
No, Everything dropping out of the sky.
I think I'm going to drive.

Speaker 1 (01:49:18):
Yeah.
So I mean, I really love mylife.
I want to wake up, you know yes, Not a conspiracy theorist, you
know, especially when shit'strue, but it's like ah, I got
kids, you know, I got thiscancer to take care of, you know

(01:49:40):
?
It's like huh.

Speaker 2 (01:49:41):
Tell you what you're.
Uh, you're tempting me to starta conspiracy theorist podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:49:46):
Let's go, let's go.

Speaker 2 (01:49:48):
I would do mad.
I'm telling you, I wouldtotally do it.
I'd have like storyboards andeverything.

Speaker 1 (01:49:56):
One thing, and we're almost pushing two hours.
I want to thank you.
I want to thank you for gettingme out of this an hour.
You know, an hour 45 minutes.
Hour to I.
I've been having a hour 15lately since I've been back.
I mean I'm never gone, but justputting out more now.
But a hour 15, deshauna Joe wasour 15, jesse and Roy Jackson

(01:50:21):
they were our 14.
So, you, you're gonna be twohours plus, but uh, what, what
was it?
Uh, conspiracy.
Right, we were talking aboutconspiracy yeah, conspiracy
theories I can always go, but Iam uh, I'm really looking
forward to february 15th andhoping that the JFK is

(01:50:43):
declassified and is out.
I'm really waiting.
I heard, I heard the pages.
There's 300,000 pages.

Speaker 2 (01:50:52):
I believe it.

Speaker 1 (01:50:54):
I've been wanting that for ever since I even found
out, you know when, when Iwatched Kevin Costner at JFK,
you know, and Oliver stonesaying his his way, and then
he's getting trashed by theestablishment, being called
crazy and yeah, man I'm lookingforward to that this is my, this

(01:51:20):
is my not.

Speaker 2 (01:51:21):
This isn't a hunch.
This is what I truly believewill happen that the people that
have been called crazy allthese years will be called
correct but will they though?

Speaker 1 (01:51:30):
because I tell you what they're still cuckoo for
coco puffs and other people's.
You know thoughts and minds andeverything else.

Speaker 2 (01:51:40):
I would say the.
The handful of people in the,in people in the mass media that
still have a brain cell or twoleft will say that the
conspiracy theorists were provedcorrect.

Speaker 1 (01:51:55):
It's not mass media when it's.
You know the podcasters.
Oh, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 (01:52:01):
Yeah, no, the pilot.
Like that's how I'm deadserious, like how I get a lot of
my news now, yeah, it's throughpodcasts, you know, like like
rogan and and others, oh, seanryan.

Speaker 1 (01:52:15):
Thank goodness for those guys, man, as much crap is
that they get?
I mean, do they get paid?

Speaker 2 (01:52:22):
they get my goodness, yeah, I'm independent.

Speaker 1 (01:52:24):
I don't get paid, but thank goodness for them, for
speaking up for the, the, thelittle guys you know yes the
people who gosh thought media,mass media, was above all.
You know it's end all hey this.
This is the truth.
It's not the truth, but itwasn't the truth of the

(01:52:47):
beginning.
We're conspiracy theorists.

Speaker 2 (01:52:49):
Yeah, and another podcast group that's really
really good is called Ironclad.
Yeah, they they have still havea series.
I think they're still puttingout podcast episodes in the
series.
It's called Change Agents andthe host is Andy Stumpf.

(01:53:10):
He was a career Navy SEAL andwas actually a I think was
actually a platoon commander atone point commander at one point
anyway.
Um, yeah, like he's interviewedeveryone from um guys that were

(01:53:31):
have gone deep undercover um toum destroy child trafficking
rings, to um to people that umhave exposed the lithium battery
um mining slavery.

Speaker 1 (01:53:45):
That's that's gone on around the world it's a myth,
man, didn't you know that?

Speaker 2 (01:53:52):
I know, yeah it's, it's crazy, but yeah, no, I, I,
I I'm 100 in agreement with youas far as you know, like where
the best news comes from now.

Speaker 1 (01:54:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh yeah, I don't trust the news.
I'll watch local news just tosee what's going on in my, my
neighborhood.
But, yeah, yeah, lee man times.
We live in, dude, I know.
So you're thinking about doinga podcast, huh?

Speaker 2 (01:54:21):
For real.
Yeah, I know that's like, like,like, seriously, know that's
like, like, like, seriously,like that's like you're, you're
kind of motivated, motivate meto to kind of want to start one
like I don't know how many ofthem are there are out there
right now, but yeah you're notthe first that I started or
helped start kickstart, so ifyou do, let me be a guest and

(01:54:42):
I'll be glad to help you out.

Speaker 1 (01:54:45):
With that said I mean dude, three minutes until two
hours.
We can still go on, but how doyou feel man?

Speaker 2 (01:54:55):
How do you feel?
I know it's been.
Really it's been a lot of fun,you know, deep diving into a lot
of stuff, especially conspiracytheories.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:55:02):
Yeah, it's always fun .
It's always fun.
I always, like you know, justjust doing a little sprinkles
but, with that.
I want you back on dude.
I don't know if.
I don't know if you listen toEarl Wayne balloons uh episodes.
He's the Bigfoot guy.

(01:55:22):
He's the uh UFO guy.
He's the bigfoot guy.
He's the uh ufo guy.
Well, he's.
He's been on my podcast twiceand the more and more I just get
him involved.
He's next ex uh dallas policeofficer.
Okay, and he moved to thepacific northwest.
He know people questioned himand everything else.

(01:55:46):
His songs are in movies.
Oh nice, ufo movies, bigfootmovies, pretty cool man, pretty
cool.

Speaker 2 (01:55:53):
Yeah, I need.
I need to.
I'm a subscriber, so yeah, I'll.
I'll dive into your library,your episode library, and listen
to this.
Check them out.

Speaker 1 (01:56:02):
I've had him on and I really got into it with him,
like you know, not fighting, butlike dude like you're.
You know we went his first one.
It's like I'm a littlesuspicious, you know, like I
don't know.
And then I was like let me getyou back on, let me you know,
talk credentials, let me talk.

(01:56:24):
You know who you are, whypeople are doing this.
It worked, it worked, yeah, andhe's a huge fan.
I'm a huge fan of his.
Um, I'll give you the movies,uh, or the movie that he's in.
He's gonna be in another movie,but yeah, really cool guy.
But I think I think I want you,I know for a, I want you back

(01:56:46):
on to just talk conspiracytheories.

Speaker 2 (01:56:48):
Okay, yeah, I know Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:56:51):
Especially, especially, when they finally
declassify and give to thepublic.
Dude, because I'm going to bereading a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:57:01):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:57:03):
I'm going to be reading a lot and I definitely
want to know about MLK man.
I heard and this is whatthey've been saying.
I heard he was a CIA plant.

Speaker 2 (01:57:19):
Yeah, yeah, I, I need to read, read, like, read more
about that.
A lot of what I've heard aboutMLK was reading about other
people's relationships with him,especially Billy Graham's

(01:57:41):
relationship with him, how theywere deep, really best friends.
Billy Graham actually bailedhim like, how they were like
deep, you know, deep, likereally best friends, and Billy
Graham actually bailed him outof jail once.
So, yeah, just knowing like thetype of man that he was, but I
have no doubt, like he, he waslike a, like a quiet, like

(01:58:02):
revolutionary in a good way,because he wanted to promote
unity whereas the governmentdidn't want unity.

Speaker 1 (01:58:12):
Imagine that, but did they they?

Speaker 2 (01:58:14):
did Exactly the government saying that we could
go.

Speaker 1 (01:58:24):
That's why I want you back on and we'll, we'll stick
to the conspiracy hours worth ofpodcasts talking about that
whenever you want to back on.
I prefer once they get that jfkstuff out.

Speaker 2 (01:58:38):
Yeah and also yeah, man, it's.

Speaker 1 (01:58:42):
It's just amazing world we live in and you know,
and we're able to stay sober for15 years.
You know I have cancer.
Wake me up.
Just, you know, be sober and begood about it.
You know it it's uplifting toyou know, continue to do things

(01:59:05):
in pandemics, find new things,like you have jack of all trades
.
It's pretty cool man and it'spretty cool that you were able
to sit here on a SuperbowlSunday early in the morning and
spend two plus hours on thepodcast with me, man.

Speaker 2 (01:59:23):
So thank you for waking me up.

Speaker 1 (01:59:25):
Yeah, thanks for having me on brother and
agreeing to be on.
So, Steve, anything you want tosay.
Where can people find you andyour sunset pics?

Speaker 2 (01:59:38):
Yeah, so they can find me on Instagram.
I'm thinking about changing it,but I'll probably leave it
there for now.
Um uh, desert stars photographyaltogether lowercase.
Um, on Instagram.
I gave you my opinion.

Speaker 1 (01:59:53):
By the way, I voted.

Speaker 2 (01:59:56):
Uh, keep it, to keep it the same.

Speaker 1 (01:59:59):
No, I vote.
Uh no, did I know?
When I voted it was a hundredpercent.
I was probably the only onethat voted oh, is that a hundred
percent?

Speaker 2 (02:00:07):
but I was like, oh, this one, this one yeah, yeah, I
think I think eventually I'llprobably shorten it, I think you
know, into something thatreally makes sense.

Speaker 1 (02:00:16):
So yeah, yeah, but steve man, it's been a pleasure
want you back on, even if it'snot conspiracy theorists, just
do your attitude, your aura.
I love it the way you takepictures.
I mean, I'm telling you, I putphotographers on because I live
vicariously through you guys andyou know the sunset pics.

(02:00:39):
They look just like you areliving up here, but you're not,
and so beautiful and Iappreciate you yeah like
stopping and smelling the rosesdude, so yeah likewise man
appreciate you and uh, keep intouch, steve, like we have been,
and uh, we'll get back on ohyeah, absolutely I look forward

(02:01:01):
to it.

Speaker 2 (02:01:02):
Okay, till next time.
Yeah, man look forward to it.

Speaker 1 (02:01:03):
Okay, till next time.

Speaker 2 (02:01:04):
Yeah, man Look forward to it.

Speaker 1 (02:01:06):
Thanks, steve, yep, we'll see you next time.

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