The Lonely Miles: A Runner's Journey Back to Self

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:26):
John Calabrese how are you?
I'm doing pretty good man had agood run this morning and I'm
just happy to be here.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
Well, good, good.
And when you say this morning,it was a couple hours ago
because you're on the East Coast, correct?

Speaker 2 (00:39):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Virginia.
I'm in Virginia, I'm inFredericksburg right now, but
I've split time between mainlycold pepper and virginia, or
virginia cold pepper andfredericksburg wow yeah, okay,
and fredericksburg is part ofthe metro area now because back
in the 1999, 2000.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
It wasn't, but it was booming.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, dc is everywhere now, man, it's
starting to be 95.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
How long does it take you to get to DC now?
Oh, boy.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
So I think the good thing about Culpeper is the back
roads.
From there you can get therepretty quick.
I mean it's crazy.
I I mean there's a lot ofpeople that commute going that
way too.
But um, yeah, I don't know,maybe like hour and a half,
something like that yeah, does.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
Does the metro go down there?

Speaker 2 (01:36):
no, I wish, oh god, I wish it did.
I mean, like, um, we have theVRE, of course, I'm sure you
know that, um, that can take youfrom, like you know the
outskirts like fredericksburg,but, um, you still have to, you
know, connect to, like the metroto go in there and everything.
It's a it's, it's a crazyprocess yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
So so virginia you born and raised yeah, yeah, man,
I miss it out there it's a goodplace.
Graduated, highuated highschool in the Alexandria area,
so yeah.
Yeah, I miss it, man, but I'mpretty sure it's expensive and a
lot of chaos.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
So to raise a kid here it's expensive and I'm just
going to be honest with you, Ifeel like it's a knife fight at
times, like for employment Justfor anything man, it's a very
competitive area.
I mean, it's a great area.
You know, there's a greatrunning community, there's many
great running communities here.
Yes, yes, it's tough.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
It's a tough place to live, in my opinion okay, so
are you a jmu or a george masonfan?
What?

Speaker 2 (02:40):
so with college I'm kind of weird.
I was in the navy, uh, and I Iused the gi bill to kind of just
patchwork.
I have some credits from MaryWashington.
I got some credits from likekind of all over the place.
I am kind of a nomad withcollege sports and colleges.
I think by default I root forUVA because that's the closest
college to me Like big school.

(03:02):
I think UVA is the closest Ilike tech to me like big school.
I think uva is the closest Ilike tech.
Um, I love tech, like in the90s, of course, when they, uh,
when they shot up with michaelvick, I mean, yeah, I mean like
he was just doing incrediblethings.
I I'm not a fan of him, likeyou know, of course, like the
dog fighting stuff like that,but yeah, yeah, but I loved
watching him play and I think,no matter, even with the dog

(03:23):
fighting stuff, like if you're avirginian, that's a magical
time.
You have to respect the talentand we probably won't ever see a
talent like that again.
You can make comparisons toLamar Jackson and stuff like
that, but watching Vic special,that was awesome.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, watching Vic after Steve Young, it was a good
time.
It was a good time, man.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
I was actually really lucky too, because I was dating
a girl at Tech at the time whenhe was there and she took me to
a game, so I got to see himplay.
I was like probably one of thetop movements in sports, yeah,
just seeing him on the field,like wow, you know, like this is
amazing.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Okay, now I got a last question and so, just out
of curiosity, have to ask,because he comes to the Gorge up
here in Washington every LaborDay weekend for three days and I

(04:17):
saw him once one day and it wasjust horrible.
So are you a Dave Matthews fan?

Speaker 2 (04:25):
This is a complicated question.
This is probably as weird as mylife is right now.
This is probably the hardestquestion I'm going to get today.
So, like I've been to multipleDave Matthews band concerts
never by choice so I mainly inhigh school, I dated a couple of
girls that liked him and I sawI've seen him many different
times, but it was never bychoice.
It was always by a significantother or, like you know,

(04:45):
girlfriend or something.
And uh, yeah, I mean I, I likewhat he does for, like the area
he.
He does a lot of charity workand he's, I think he's a cool
guy.
Yeah, he got into the music,though, and, um, I don't know if
that makes me a bad virginianor just a bad person.
I mean, uh, I hope not, but Idon't think anything bad about
him.
I just I'm just kind ofindifferent about the music.

(05:07):
I mean, I hung out the concertsand stuff, and you know, try to
be cool about it, but I am yeah,yeah, I don't know, I don't,
I'm kind of just you know yeah,I saw, yeah, yeah, I saw him
once and I was done.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
I was like, nah, never again, I'm not, I'm not a
fan, I'm not a fan.
But you know I grew up in thattime when his album started
coming out and you know I wasdown there during high school.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
He was getting hot and you know I'm pretty old
people here like, uh, I rememberpeople like so fired up at the
concerts and stuff, and I waslike, yeah, I was trying to.
I was like I wish I could getlike that.
Like like I remember dudes justlike really fired up with
certain songs.
He's playing stuff, stuff likethat.
I was just like, oh, I justcouldn't do it.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean you seen that meme wherewe you know when he's dancing
all weird and that they're likewe know there's no song out
there for him to even jam likethis, you know there's no song
out there like that.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
So I don't know like that's the weird.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
Yeah, that's a excellent question.
I think that one got me, theygot me, I had to, man, I had to.
So, yeah, yeah, I do like himand I'm gonna.
I'm a huge Adam Sandler fan andit was one of the questions you
know, what Adam Sandler moviedo you like, or whatever.
And uh, I do like him in themovie because he always plays
like a gay guy.
Man, everyone, everyone,everyone, just go with it.

(06:32):
And, yeah, just go with it.
He plays a gay guy that'smarried to nicole kidman.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
Oh yeah, pretty funny man musicians and movies are
interesting, like, I think, oneof the funniest ones.
Do you remember fight club?

Speaker 1 (06:46):
yep, yep.
Do you remember the?

Speaker 2 (06:47):
waiter, it will that.
Yeah.
Yeah, meatloaf is the main one,but, like dude, a low-key,
hilarious one.
Do you remember the waiter atone point that uh tells him not
to eat the soup because of thestuff that's in it?
And uh, it's the guy from live.
Remember that band live?
like oh, yeah, yeah, I neverreally liked that band, but like
that, like that's a hilariouscameo right there, like every

(07:08):
time I see him, like that'sgenius.
David fincher is a legend andwe need to treat him like one
every day of the week yeah, yeah, you kind of look like a man
walchek right, that's his name,walchek.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
now let me say, you look like him, almost man, you
him.
I'm a huge live fan, man, Ilove live.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
I mean, I liked him back in the day.
I haven't listened to him in awhile, but they had some fans,
man, they were good.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
Oh yeah, good, Good, good.
All right, john, just trying toease up the moment.
You know You've been up for awhile, I haven't so that.
Just just to get me in, get thethings flowing.
So, man, all right.
John virginia, you approachedme.

(07:53):
Don't know how you found me, wedon't have to get into that.
Don't know how you found thispodcast, but you felt nick, I
stalked you.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
That's exactly how it happened.
I was like this guy looks cooland I just want to talk to him
all right.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Well, I appreciate that man, especially me.
You know, growing up in theeast coast area, it's pretty
cool man.
So I always give people fromthe east coast some love and if
they want to be on the podcast,they can be on the podcast.
But you, you you're goingthrough some things.
You are struggling, a bit kindof like the struggle bus that I

(08:32):
that I've been in you said youhad a terrible 24 a.
I I'm there with you, but youhave a story and here you are,
so go with it, john all rightman, follow your lead, but I
will ask some questions,probably not as tough as, uh,
the dave matthews, but that wasuh, yeah, that that will be the

(08:53):
hardest question of the day.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
Everything else is.
You set me up perfectly becauseeverything else is up easy from
here, hopefully I say that now,but then it watched me, watch me
, like, watch me 30 minutes, butum, no, what happened with me
is, um, I kind of had like adownfall.
I was doing really good withrunning, I was in a great place,
and then, um, basically, I raninto somebody at the end of 2021

(09:18):
that, you know, I I don't knowthis I ran to a girl in 2021
that I just adored in previousyears at races and we started
talking and we really rushedthings basically, and I got
myself into a situation where mypiece was really disturbed and

(09:40):
I didn't know how to communicateit to her and it got really
dark.
And then, basically, fastforward to 2024, my friend
passed away towards the end ofthe year that I always went and
did ultras with, and you know,my girlfriend also at the time.
Like you know, we did stufftogether.
We were just like a team.
You know, we did really hardultras, like Manatee's,

(10:04):
basically uh, the wild oak trail100, just like you name a hard
race.
We would just go out and do ityeah losing my buddy.
I mean it was.
It didn't hit me at the timereally hard because it was so
sudden.
He was, you know, he was fineand then, just out of nowhere,
one day somebody texted me andwas like you passed away, and I

(10:24):
was just like I was in shock,but it didn't really grab me at
the time.
I mean, I was really sad andhorrified but it didn't really
get me at the time.
But basically, fast forward toaround December.
I was having a lot of problemswith my girlfriend.
At the time.

(10:45):
Uh, you know again, just, Icouldn't find peace.
There was constant conflict andyou know, and I'm I blame
myself a lot for the way thesituation went down, but I just
I couldn't work it.
And then also I was havingissues with work.
You know, being a caregiver isreally hard.
I love the guy I'm a caregiverfor I'm sure you've seen him on
Instagram.

(11:06):
I love Donald.
But just the three situations, Ijust felt drained and I was
having problems.
You know, on top of that I wasdoing races every week and
trying to like write stuff, beon podcasts.
You know, I was working myselfto death basically and yeah, I
just kind of like my body shutdown.
I got pneumonia in December,yeah, and that took me out of

(11:35):
the game for like a bit a bit.
After that, you know, I keptgetting sick with other stuff
like stomach bugs and stuff likethat.
I was just depleted and I gotto the point with my girlfriend
that I had to pull.
Like this sounds awful, but Imean I'm just gonna be honest
about it.
Um, I basically just had topull a goodwill hunting and you
know I, I was awful to her.
I, um, I made sure that shewould never, ever want to get

(11:59):
back with me again because wewere just, it was bad.
We were just, you know, we, weprobably broke up and got back
together like eight timesbecause I feel like we both had
a lot of love for each other,but it was just bad.
I mean, like I, I couldn't everget comfortable, I couldn't
rest.
Um, you know, again, just a lotof conflict and I was mean and

(12:21):
um, it's tough because she's bigin the running community also,
especially around here.
Everywhere I look, that's aplace where something happened.
I'm constantly reminded thecombination of my buddy passing
away and having to break up withmy girlfriend.
Those were my two people.

(12:42):
I got you, my dude for altersis gone and then, like you know,
the girl I ran like all overwith the road you know I had.
You know I think it's thingsworse when you have to let
somebody go because you know youcan't do it anymore.
That's hard.
I mean like it should be asensible decision to be able to
walk away.
But no, like I still wanted toget back with her and you know

(13:12):
like I mentally lost it.
I mean I just um, yeah, I, I itwas dark and it's still.
I mean I'm still trying to getthrough it.
But um, you know I, I know inmy heart I made the right
decision leaving.
I had to because I was just amess you know my body like and
you know I got freakingpneumonia.
It's yeah, yeah yeah, it wastough but moving forward.
Now it's just kind of, like youknow you don't want to run
because, like you know, you'regoing to bump into this person

(13:33):
makes sense yeah, and you know,you know before, when we broke
up and I'd see her races, it waslike it was, it was very
devastating, yeah yeah.
So, moving forward, it's justfinding the motivation to want
to, you know, get back to whereI was when I was, you know,
before really I I met her andyou know when I was motivated at

(13:55):
doing alters every weekend andjust like loving life.
So I got to try to get backthere.
But you know, I've got we'lltalk about it, I've got some
stuff going forward, but, um,yeah, just getting healthy from
the pneumonia and uh, just justthat unhealthy life, it's, it's
been a struggle, man, and uh,it's gonna take time, but I I'm,

(14:16):
every day I'm getting better,but man, it's, it's rough, rough
time.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
I got you, I got you, I got you.
I'm here.
I'm here listening.
I one one thing, though, manGood Will Hunting, he did go see
about a girl towards the end.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
But he never got.
He, in my opinion, he's nevergoing to get her back.
He broke her and I didsomething similar to this person
and I deserve paying for it.
It's like I mean, like it'sweird, I didn't plan it like
that, it just happened.
Like that, it just happened andI watched the movie.
I ended up watching the movie,like I had like like randomly,
later I was like, oh my god,that's what I did, like I, I and
I was like really remorsefuland yeah, um, it's tough.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
I mean, it's really it's hard to deal with that
movie leaves it up to, uh, yourown personal interpretation.
So I feel he lived a happy lifealongside her man.
So just thought I'd let youknow that's one of my favorite
movies of all time.
If somebody asked me favoritemovie, that movie.

(15:17):
Because at the end, when hefound out that his shit doesn't
really stink, you know, and hecries in his arms and just lets
it all out, he doesn't have tofake it anymore.
You know, that's one of thegreatest movies of all time for
me.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
So I have a darker look to it now but like, yeah, I
mean, like my situation, I knowI I will never get this person
back.
I was, I was, I had no one.
And I think that if I can learnanything from this is even if a
relationship fails, you have tohave empathy.
If you don't have, if you don'thave empathy, then you're
you're an evil person, you know,and I think that I lacked a lot

(15:53):
of it during our time togetherand I'm very remorseful about
that.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
Okay, I gotcha All right.
So when did you start gettinginto the running man?
Why, why run?

Speaker 2 (16:04):
When did you start getting into the running man?
Why run?
Well, this is so.
This is kind of this kind ofgoes along with what we were
just talking about.
I got into running in 2017 tobasically deal with depression
from divorce.
Basically, I was just, I wasstrung out from just courtroom
stuff, like you know, basicallyfinancial stuff, from you know,

(16:25):
going to court, just emotionallydrained, and I, you know I
found running to help fix that.
But, uh, you know, fast forwardto now, it's really hard when
you let somebody into all ofyour running routes and your
races that you like and then,like, that safe space is broken.
So I mean, like, not to likedeter anyone from finding a

(16:46):
relationship in the runningcommunity.
But if you do that, you betterbe ready that, if it goes wrong
and you sometimes, you know,like I never thought, uh, me and
my girlfriend were gonna get,yeah, we were going to uh break
out.
But if it does happen, like youknow, there's stuff there's
other stuff like I, I have a kid, I have to have consideration
for how my daughter's beingraised and everything, and then

(17:09):
just my own personal piece andyou know, if that stuff starts
getting violated, like in youryou know, if you're dating
someone in the community,everything changes.
I mean you have to like, likeif that's what you're using for
stress relief, you know it'sgoing to be really disrupted and
we're runners are creatures ofhabit.
I mean like that's gonna justreally disrupt everything.
Race schedule, where you wantto run, who you want to run with

(17:31):
it's I yeah like anyoneconsidering a relationship like
that really needs to think aboutit I gotcha yeah yeah, no, it
is so.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
So I'm running through a few barriers.
You know, 2024 was my worstyear of all time, you know.
And uh, uh, along with aninjury, you know a couple deaths
, and then cancer myself.
And then, you know, just tryingto get back into it, and you're
like, I don't know, I don'tfeel like, uh, you know some of

(18:02):
the eggs.
You're like, okay, you know thewind, it's very windy over here
, it's probably one of thewindiest cities besides Chicago
and it's just like, oh, thewind's hitting, I don't want to
go outside, you know.
So, to like to get out of thefunk, I just move.
You know, movement, that'sthat's what I call move, man,

(18:25):
just move.
So I'll just go on and, uh, goto the gym and hit up the stair
climber, you know, for a while,and just beat up my legs.
And then I try to run the nextday.
I'm like man, why are my legsstill hurting?
You know, and it's just like, oh, that's why.
So I just tried to do things tochange things up, but sometimes
it just doesn't work.
So what are you doing to change?
What are you doing to get past,you know, the barriers, the
struggle, bus?

Speaker 2 (18:47):
To piggyback off what you said in 2024, I had a bunch
of injuries on top of gettinglike pneumonia and like sick
also, and it was.
It was so tough because, like,I was still trying to run hard
and I got to a place where, justlike and I know I frustrated my
girlfriend at the time toobecause I was just, I was very
weak, you very weak, you know, Icouldn't run as well.
I mean, she definitely was muchstronger than I was um, yeah,

(19:11):
so like, yeah, I'm sure Ifrustrated her.
We did a lot of stuff like, Ithink, with one of the hardest
weekends we are.
You familiar with the jfk 50?
I'm sure you are growing up inthe area oh yeah, yeah, jfk and
philly in the same weekend.
That's the kind of shit we weredoing.
So, like I mean, we did a lotof stuff and, um, yeah, I'm sure
that led to the pneumonia ontop of just all the other you

(19:31):
know, the fighting, and thenjust my friend passing and then
just being a dad also, just somuch stuff going on.
Um, I was constantly injured.
I had knee problems, uh, so,like dealing with the injury,
the breakup, yeah, dude, likethere's mornings I just wake up
like I don't want to do this andthen, um, you know, like I have
to really psych myself up torun and I'll be honest with you,

(19:53):
I don't know how I'm doing it.
Uh, I mean, like I'm just doingit yeah, I just put.
I post all the time on instagram.
I'm just like you know, I hadto get this one out.
Like, once I get out there, Istart to get motivated, like
because I like to, you know Ihad to get this one out.
Like, once I get out there, Istart to get motivated, like
cause I like to, you know, Ilove to run.
That was my thing.
It's just like.
Yeah, I think the thing thathurts the most again is just
that, like everywhere that Ilive, we have every single part

(20:15):
of like our routes.
There's a story to it.
Like you know, you start seeingthat and it's hard to just like
not think about that and justlike get motivated about
something in the future, whichis tough again, because, like,
I've had to gut my race scheduleto um, you know, because I
don't I want to give her space,I don't want to bump into her
and stuff like that.
Um, but you know, like I got tofigure out something to do

(20:36):
because I love to run and I missracing so much.
So, like, um, yeah, I mean,I've got some ideas on that, but
I'm trying to focus on thefuture and just moving forward
and the things that I want to dothat.
I couldn't do when I had agirlfriend.
So, like you know I maybethat's selfish, but I think I'm
in.
I'm in a situation now that Igot depleted by too many people

(20:58):
and you know it's not a badthing Adults, you have to do
that.
But yeah, I got totally drained.
I that's why I got pneumonia,that's how I got injured, that's
why my head got all messed up.
I you know my sleep's messed up.
I just I need to take some timefor John and just be selfish,
and I I don't even like sayingselfish, but you know what I'm
saying Like, I just need to takesome time for me.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
Have you thought of?
You know, uh, changing theroute doing, changing the route,
doing little pieces here andthere and immediately, you know
going off the route.
You know, instead of you knowgoing full, full tilt in the
route, and then you know, maybeworry about seeing her do it
backwards.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yeah, so that's what I'm doing.
Yeah, I mean like, um, I have,I mean, but the real, the hard
thing.
I mean like this is a reallyrough part of this.
So like when, when I totallymoved out, I mean we live like
very close to each other, like I.
When I say close, I mean like Iwant to say like 150, like
maybe steps, 150 steps orsomething like that, like you

(21:58):
live on the same farm.
So that is brutal.
I mean it is.
I don't even I would not wishthat upon anybody.
And yeah, it's also led to me.
You know, if I earlier on, likewhen I saw her, like I would
just get emotional and try totalk to her and stuff like that.
And you know, when it's done,it's done it doesn't matter yeah
.
It doesn't matter if you'regoing to like and that's why I

(22:18):
think again Matt Damon did notget the girl in um I not to be
like, you know, uh, you knowlike, but like, if you break
somebody and you do something acertain way, like that it's over
.
You know, you can't, there'snothing you're going to say that
can like, renew that.
You destroy that love, like the, the bowl of love that was in
front of you.
That's, that's gone.

(22:38):
You know like you emptied itwith the things that you said.
You can't get it back.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
I got said you can't get it back, I got you I got you
.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
Okay, all right.
So when?
When did you guys break up?
Oh geez, I mean, it hasn't beenthat long.
But like the thing is likewe've it's been over and over
and over again and uh, I thinkthat just, you know, yeah, I'm
probably the one.
Yeah, I so like um, I know, likeuh, she has no love in her

(23:10):
heart for me.
I mean, like I, if anything, Istill have some for her, but I
just um, you know, I just I knowthat I have to move on and just
you heard her, you heard her.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
So what?
When was uh, when was thebreakup?

Speaker 2 (23:25):
Month.
So this is, this is going tosound crazy.
When I got to the Mooney inDecember, it was such a blur to
now I can't like honestly, likethere was things that were
happening that I, I mean likeI've made some bad decisions,
like I've had to like back outof jobs and stuff like that.
Like I yeah, I mean like I'veit's been like in fast forward

(23:46):
man, I, I, so that was part ofmy issue with you know, breaking
up with her is like, uh, like Ican't even tell you a day it
happened.
It was just so crazy, gotchaand um, yeah, I was driving all
over the place doing differentstuff for different people, like
with work, and just, um, youknow, trying to make time for
her or my daughter.
I, yeah, dude, it's I can'teven describe it.

(24:07):
It's like, um, um, dude, likeit's just been like the last.
The last four months of my lifehave been like a surreal
experience.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
It's just been very difficult, I mean so what have
you been doing to betteryourself since hanging out with?

Speaker 2 (24:24):
family running, just spending a lot of time my kid
and um running.
I've been doing.
I've been trying to eat betterand, uh, less coffee.
I slipped up today.
I had two cups of coffee today,but I'm trying to do less
coffee so I can rest better.
That's the main thing I think Ineed to do just get rest, you
know, start eating better.
Train like I used to yeah try tofind like what I was before her

(24:46):
.
Because, um, I mean, I'm justgoing to say this Like when I
connected with her in 2021,there were, you know, I knew
that I was taking a chance and Iwas going to put myself out
there and I knew that it couldresult in this, but I didn't
want to, because how much Icared about this person.
And yeah, I mean like I, youknow it.

(25:10):
It's sad because, like I wasreally happy, you know, like and
like I just somehow I think Idon't know how to do it and I'm
never going to be that sameperson as back then, but I'm
hoping that I can grow strongerand be better and I have to use
that motivation and get there,you know.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yeah, yeah.
So basically, you're redefiningyourself, you're trying to find
yourself.
Ooh, all right.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
And how and how how old are you?
If you don't mind me asking.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
So that's the thing too.
So I'm 45.
I'm not like you know, I'm notin my 20s, I'm not even in my
thirties.
So, like this is, it sucks.
Yeah.
Like I'm the good thing though,I mean I've got my've got my
health, I do at least have asport that I love.
But I think what really scaresme is that I had a cool thing
with her.
I had a running buddy.

(25:59):
I was finally dating a runnerthat I love.
We could share race shirts, wecould show up at races together,
holding on to each other, andpeople just knew that we loved
each other.
And like thinking that, likeyou know, that might be gone,
like I may never date a runneragain, I mean I should be happy
that it even happened to beginwith because, like you know,
sometimes it just doesn't happenat all during people's

(26:21):
lifetimes, and you know I shouldbe happy for even that happened
to begin with.
But yeah, I mean it makes mesad, though, that it's gone and
it might never happen again, andyeah, nothing like that.
But you know, there's a lot ofthose negative feelings in my
head and I just got to workthrough it.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
Just got to work through it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
So so my, my take is, uh, next time, don't date a
runner, that's the thing.
That sucks, man.
I mean it's so awesome, butit's just's just.
Um, I think with runners,especially like, if you, I don't
even think we knew at the timewhat was happening to us because
, like, uh, we definitelychanged during the course.
You know, we both grew intosomething different and, um,
yeah, I mean, um, I, I thinkthat's the thing.

(27:06):
If you do data runner, just know, like, I'm not a type of person
but I do, I like to do bigthings and you know, you have to
be really conscious and, again,empathetic and you know, just
be mindful of what the otherperson wants to do.
And that's hard because, likecreating a, have you ever tried
to create a race schedule with arunner that you're dating?
That's like wow.
And then you also have kids ontop of that, like we both had

(27:28):
kids.
So that's just likemind-blowing stuff.
Right there, it is a toughbalance, but it it's.
If you can pull off, it is, itis awesome.
Even if it doesn't work out, Imean it's probably one of the
coolest things I've ever done inmy life well, maybe you have
some strong boundaries too, like, hey, you run your races, I'm
running mine.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
If we just have the same schedule, you know, you
know.
If we're gonna do the army 10miler at the same uh schedule,
you know, you know, if we'regoing to do the army 10 mile or
the same time, we'll meet up,we'll, we'll travel together,
but that's it.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
That's a tough part of it.
Like we, um, like some of theultras that I did, uh, basically
, you know she wouldn't run, she, she crewed me, like she was
super cool about crewing me andstuff like that.
Um, yeah, that was that's.
That was a real cool part also.
And then, like you know, to umbalance out, I would do like a
marathon with her and help hervq or something.
So, like we have so muchhistory with running, like that

(28:19):
and like, yeah, that's the thingtoo, like I never thought I was
going to meet somebody thatloves running as much as I do,
like we both.
It's like yeah it was almostlike a movie, like.
We just like like, wow, likeyou know, I love this person so
much and they love running likeI do.
It was like something extrathat I, you know, like, when you
know, when you finally knowit's over and you realize just

(28:40):
how special that was, you'relike wow, I'm probably never
going to find this again.
At 45, you know like, or if Ido, like, I'm going to meet
somebody that doesn't run andI'm always going to be wishing
that that was there.
It's, it's an overwhelmingfeeling.
You know like, it's somethingthat you don't want to think
about.
You know it's.
I mean, like you know it'spretty dark, but, um, yeah, yeah
, it's.
Uh, it's gonna linger thoughokay, all right.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
So how often are you getting out in a week running?

Speaker 2 (29:07):
oh so I, somehow I'm doing good, man.
I mean, it took, took a whileto build up after getting sick
and you know stuff, you know inthe beginning of the breakup,
but, um, last couple weeks, man,I've done 70 miles, like pretty
quality miles and like somegood long runs.
So, um, yeah, I'm getting back,and, um, the best thing about
it is that I'm running a lotalone, which is hard, but I'm

(29:30):
running a lot alone, so I'mdoing.
The actual pacing and stuffthat I want to do is that, you
know, I I think I fell into atrap over the years.
I would just want to run withother people and friends and
just do races for long runs,which is good and all.
If you do that, that's fine,but for me, I needed to be doing
, you know, stuff on my own anddoing things that I should have

(29:53):
been doing to get better as arunner, and I think, just doing
that I really took my foot offthe gas.
And now, though, I'm in a uniqueopportunity where I can train
harder and maybe get stronger,maybe even better shape than
I've ever been in.
You know, just because I canjust focus on this now it's

(30:13):
lonely, don't get me wrong.
I love the lifestyle before,you know, just always,
constantly having people aroundit's, you know it's like a more
part, like a party environment.
But yeah, I feel like now I cando certain things I couldn't
before and, you know, in thefuture I can do some bigger
races that I wanted to do, thatI couldn't because I was in a
relationship that, um, you know,there's no way I could do

(30:36):
something like, you know, badwater or western states, because
, like the amount of money orlike, um, the travel, the time
away, um, but now I mean, that'sa possibility and you know, I'm
hoping that I can use stufflike that to help drive me to
become a better runner and justlike you know, know, just
stronger all around.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
Well, if there's a will, there's a way, man, and if
you qualify for Western, I'msure you'll make time to come
out here, because Western is oneheck of a an accomplishment
it's, you know.
Ultra is a Boston, you know.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
I've been there before.
I, I, I, um.
I crewed at it before so I'veseen how awesome it is and I'd
like to, but, um, I really wantto get into bad water.
I think that's going to be mygoal and I I'm not doing as many
races.
This year I've done a lot ofraces, though I think I've got I
mean, like I've done so manyraces.
I can't like there's somepeople that can tell you all the
races off the top of their headand stuff like that, but um, I

(31:32):
think I've done 13, 13 or like15, 100 milers.
So like I've got a pretty goodresume and like this year I'm
not doing that much.
That you know I'm not racingthat much.
But if I can finish, devil dog,I mean there's, you know
there's a shot to get in.
I mean I can make the case andhopefully chris will, he'll
listen, he'll listen to it andcall my name okay, all right,

(31:55):
okay.

Speaker 1 (31:57):
So, to race or not to race, you're doing one race.
I'm doing one race this year,but that's like across the years
, in arizona, starting december28th, right?
So, um, I'm doing this.
I signed up last year, um,before finally getting the

(32:18):
diagnosis of cancer, they werekind enough to just give me
credit.
So I was, like, you know, Isigned up for the 48 last year.
This year I'm going to sign upfor the 72, because my goal is
to do the six day.
Right, so I'm sticking to it.
I thought about doing otherraces here and there, but I'm
just going to stick to that.

(32:39):
So, what, what's it going totake, man, for you to just, you
know, do this race, do anotherrace, continue on, you know,
doing your ultras.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
So I got to get up a I could give a shout out real
quick um, I uh wasn't going to,I was just gonna do devil dog.
Uh, just because I, you know, Ido love the race and it's
towards the end of the year so Ican get healthy and just get
some of that stuff out of my youknow, that poison out of me.
But, um, ainsley's angelscontacted me in frederick uh,
the fExpert chapter and theywanted me to push on a race.

(33:15):
I've done it over the yearswith Ainsley's Angels.
I love giving people a reallygood experience pushing them,
and they contacted me the otherday and they asked if I could do
Sheets to Sheets.
It's a 14-miler but super fun,great environment.
It's just it's a 14 miler butsuper fun, great environment.
You know it's kind of like aparty and you know I did it last

(33:35):
year.
Um, you know, pushing my goodfriend katherine and uh, yeah, I
mean like that's happy.
That's the kind of stuff I needto do to get like, get
re-motivated.
So big shout out to them, foryou know asking me to do that
because that'll get my mind offof um, a race that weekend that
I was supposed to be doing withmy ex-girlfriend and I.
It sucks.
Like I had the.
I was an ambassador for theCherry Blossom 10 miler and I

(33:59):
was I backed out though becauseyou know that's that's her race
and you know I felt really badstill doing that with um, you
know, I again, I want, I, Ididn't want to be like there
that weekend and just like youknow, I just want to give her
space and stuff like that.
So, um, that was tough for meto pull out of that.
I hate doing that.

(34:19):
So you know, especially whenthey select me to be an
ambassador and you know theywere giving me a hotel and, like
you know, both races for the um, you know the 5k and the 10
miler, the 5k and the 10 milerand it's a it's iconic race.
On top of that it's a wonderfulrace and they select me and I
felt like just horrible that Ihad that.
But you know the it's amazinghow that works.
Like I was so depressed aboutthat.

(34:40):
But you know ainsley's reachedout to me and I can help
somebody have a really good day.
So you know it all balances outat the end.
I'm hoping that.
You know, moving forward, we'llhave a lot of those situations
pop up.
But yeah, I get to do that.
And then, you know, hopefullyanother race or two might pop up
in the.
You know, in between there andDevil Dog.
But my main goal I really justwant to get healthy for Devil

(35:03):
Dog, finish Devil Dog, so I geta hundred miler this year in and
then can apply to Badwater.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
Okay, all right, so basically keep an open mind.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Yeah, I mean, like it's funny that, you know, I
feel like I almost willed thatto happen.
With sheets to sheets, like Iwas just like so distraught over
having to bail out from beingan ambassador, it was.
It was just a terrible time,like when they, um, you know, I
went to the first like um partyfor it with all the other
ambassadors and it was so muchfun.

(35:34):
You know, my girlfriend wasthere, we were having a blast,
like I was wearing pink,everything like a pink suit.
It was so cool.
And then, like, um, just youknow, the things got just so bad
with us and, um, yeah, I, youknow, not being able to do that,
it was just tough and I was,you know, I was really looking
forward to it.
So I think that this is going tobe a really healthy alternative

(35:55):
for me.
So I won't be depressed thatweekend.
And on top on top of that also,it's gonna be a good weekend
because, like, my daughter has adance competition.
So, like, let's and normally Iwouldn't do it during one of
those competition weeks becauseI love watching her dance and
being supportive but you knowwhen, when ainsley's angels
needs me, my daughterunderstands like okay, yeah, you
can go to that because it's notlike I think with Grayson was
so selfish, like oh, I got toget this PR and stuff like that

(36:15):
it's, you were totallyself-absorbed.
But with Ainsley's is different.
I think it's a really positiveenvironment because you're
helping somebody else out andyou're giving them a good day.
You know, and like that's whatI need right now.
I need to be able to like behappy for somebody else and not
just like totally self-absorbedwhich I am anyway, which it's
horrible.
But you know I, you know I justwant to get past this and give

(36:35):
you know.
I want to be kind to give otherpeople a good time and just you
know, get right.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
Yeah, I got you, I got you.
So.
So, man, 70 miles a week thoughman, okay, 70, 70 miles a week.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
You know what's funny .
So, like at my daughter'scompetition at Richmond a few
weeks back, I was running in themorning at the hotel because
we're watching them dance allday her and her dance team.
This guy he saw me.
I ran 10 miles on the treadmill.
That may not be part of somepeople, but I hate the treadmill
.
I was always running on roughseas and getting sick and stuff

(37:11):
like that, so I hate treadmill.
But um, I did 10 just because Ihad to get it in at the hotel
before um, they got up, becausealso, I would get them like
their, like their starbucks andstuff like that.
I was, I was trying to be likea really good dance dad.
But um, this guy, like he cameup he was like why are you
running 10 miles on thetreadmill?
And I was like I'm like what'sgoing on secret about runners?
We are, we are messed up people, man.

(37:33):
That's why we're gonna run 10miles.
Let's try for some, for somereal shit, man so.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
So on the treadmill right.
What?
What do you do to pass time?
Do you listen to something?
Do you listen to audiobooks?
Do you listen to music?

Speaker 2 (37:50):
I'm gonna be honest.
I mean, like I've never reallybeen much to run with music.
Um, I've reviewed some, some umheadphones, uh the like the
wireless headphones, like Idon't know what they call, the
phone conducting ones.
Like I I've reviewed a coupleof those.
I believe in the run I write uhgear reviews and I do like
using them.
I think they're awesome becauseI'm a big podcast guy, um, you

(38:11):
know, I like listening to sportspodcasts and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
OK.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
But like normally I don't listen to anything.
I mean I've got some.
I've got so much shit in myhead, man, like I've got to sort
stuff out, and I know thatsounds insane, but that's just
kind of is insane.

Speaker 1 (38:31):
That, that.
That is insane, because when Iget a lot of stuff on my mind,
it's either you know lately youknow audiobook or music, you
know, or sometimes podcasts.
But if I'm on the dreadmill orstair climber, I have to put on
some uh rogan at least, and youknow, watch the interview, just
to pass time.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
So it's so weird like , um, um, when, when I first
started running, like I was somessed up for my divorce Like I
don't I think about this periodall the time Like I was so
motivated Like I would just goout I mean, it wasn't like super
fast or anything, but I wouldjust go out and do like 20 miles
and, um, I didn't have a watch.
I, uh, I had, you know, thestep counter on my phone.

(39:11):
I use the step counter on myphone at the time and I would
just like I would just listen toso much music like mainly
eighties, heavy metal Like Ijust like was just get freaking,
fired up man, like I, I lovedit.
And like it's weird, liketowards the end of my
relationship, I kept thinkingback to that man.

(39:31):
I would give anything just tonot race.
If I could just get out of allthe races I'm signed up for, if
I could just be alone, if Icould feel like I was before, I
would be happy.
I think, subconsciously, Iended up acting on that.
Sometimes, man, when life getsyou like that you just have to

(39:53):
be alone and like I mean, it'sjust therapeutic.
You know, um, I, so I'm notlistening to music now.
But I think I just, witheverything that's happened, it's
like it's so loud in my headright now I mean I hope at some
point I get back to reallylistening to.
I love music, you know, I knowI there's there's so much cool
stuff with music and running.
I miss that whole life.

(40:15):
But um, yeah, I've got so muchstuff to sort of sort out up
there.
I don't think I got you.
I hope, I hope I get there oneday I can just like jam out to
music.
But also another thing too I'veran with so many people over
the last like few years and,like you know, like with run
clubs and like my ex-girlfriendand stuff like that, I just like
talking.
You know I am a talker, as youcan see.

(40:36):
I mean like I enjoy talking topeople.
And yeah, I'm in a weird placeright now.
Man, I'm a very special person,but I just also, I don't know,
I'm weird.
I'm a weird nomad right now.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
I got know I'm weird, I'm a weird nomad right now.
I got you, I got you, but yeah,you feel like a nomad, but
outside, looking in you're,you're not because you like to
run with others, I mean, youknow me.
On the other hand, I'm totalopposite man.
I do everything alone.
I don't like and believe it ornot, I don't really like running
with people.
I don't like being aroundpeople.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
I mean, like, how can I explain this?
Like, I'm kind of this weirdman.
I'm kind of I'm with you onthat and I think that's what
drove me to, you know, breakingup with my girlfriend.
I just I needed to find my ownpeace, I needed to be alone, but

(41:33):
at the same time I I create, Ido crave people and being around
.
Like that's why I ran infragsburg today.
I ran with some friends, myfriend rachel, I mean like, um,
it's amazing.
Like when you're going throughsome shit, like the people that
come out, it's like the peopleyou at least expect to come out
and support you.
You're like, wow, this personactually, you know this person
actually cares about you out,like so like I think that's an
amazing part about this too.
Like when you're findingyourself, you find out who, like

(41:54):
like I never knew I had an allyin this person, you know, like
it's really interesting.
Um, so, yeah, I mean, like whenI'm alone though, I feel like
it's more just a recharge.
Like I love being around people, with people and making people
laugh.
Like that was one of the things.
Like, oh my god, what so?
Like when me and myex-girlfriend first started
running because she wasn'trunning.
At the time she took like abreak and um, I helped get her

(42:17):
back in shape by doing like fivek's and stuff like that and I
would just try to make her laughthe whole time because I know
she was, you know, justsuffering because she hadn't ran
fast or anything like that in awhile.
But she's an athlete, so forlike somebody that's dormant
with running, I mean it's easyto get back into it, but like
she would be like suffering andI would just like say I would
just hit her with all thefunniest stuff I had in my
arsenal and yeah, man, I just Igot nothing left.

(42:40):
Man, I tried to put everythingI couldn't to her and you know,
again I could.
I should have been moreempathetic down the line, but I
got to get all that stuff backman.
I mean, I am a person, I can bea cool guy, but I suck.
Right now I need to be anomadic guy just to kind of get
that back and recharge and be abetter.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
What's cool about the running community?
They're so forgiving and alsoso loving.
You know, the camaraderie isthere.
You don't have to be every ineveryone's face 24, seven.
If you show up, you continue to.
You know, support the race,support each other.
They, they come around and youknow, uh, I might sound like you
know that.

(43:22):
You know I don't give two crapsabout someone.
But you know, when I see orhear or you know somebody's in
the race and I see them, I givethem a hug.
You know, and they're like oh,I appreciate the hug.
You know, it's just, it's justone of the things I do.
But, man, I do a lot of loanthough.
I do alone the miles andeverything else.

(43:45):
And to prepare for this race, Iended up to get this.
I ended up getting a, because Inormally crew myself and I have
everything in a pack, uh, likea 20 not 20, but like almost a
20 to 40 uh liter pack.
I ended up getting a jog uhstroller, so so I can put my

(44:09):
water there and I should be.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
That's a cool guy thing to do.
I should.
I should have done that already, like especially during covid
man.
Oh my god, like the amount Iran during covid I was.
Yeah, I should have done that,like I, I would.
Just I got to the point I oneday I ran a marathon around a
field, like around the field,like the farm I lived.
I just ran a marathon around afield.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that that's my goal.
It should be coming in today.
I finally told the wife I waslike, yeah, I got a stroller.
She's like what.
My kids were like what yeah, Igot a stroller, why did you get
a stroller?
So I can do these multiple dayruns by myself and just train
for the 72 hour race.

(44:51):
So so, yeah, so, doing things,try to uh change things up,
trying to go on thesedestination runs.
You know that I've beenplanning and yeah, it's.
I've got a couple things totell you real quick, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
So, like I want to.
I want to tell people that I Idid run with in the past, like
if I don't talk to you, it'snothing you did, if I don't
follow you back.
You know there's a weird, um,there's a weird way of you know
reasoning why I'm doing things Iam right now.
It's not anything you're doing,I just have to deal my own
certain way.
You know I love everybody thatI've ever ran with.

(45:27):
You know it's a great communityand I hope I am able to at some
point get back.
But yeah, you know, you knowjust understand what I'm going
through and you know I love youall.
But I hope that I hope I can beout there running with you all
soon.
No-transcript the.
What do you?
What?

(45:47):
What?
So there's a race that laz cameup with.
Oh, yeah, w yes, so like thatis an awesome adventure race.
If you get a chance to do thatone, you go from uh, knoxville,
tennessee, to bristol, virginia.
Yeah, it's wild, you got to doit.
It's, I think it's 119 miles.

(46:08):
It's like a mini ball state.
Basically, that sounds likesomething that you would really
like and it's just um, yeah,it's a really cool experience.
I did.
I I almost got into adventureracing during covid, um, just
because all the races were gone.
That's how I did bloody 11w.
Uh, I'd like to do like ballstate and something.

(46:28):
I was on the wait list for ballstate actually this year but,
um, I couldn't pull it off with.
Like, that's the problem withme, and multi-day races, like
being, you know, like a dad andstuff like that.
Yeah, yeah, I think the most Ican do a hundred milers and you
know, what I'm probably going togravitate towards doing is
doing just one big race a year,like if is doing just one big

(46:51):
race a year, like if I can getin the bad water, say, I'd like,
yeah, I'd like to do the fuji100, like if I could possibly
pull that off, um, you know,just stuff like that.
Uh, comrades, that's anotherone like I think like even those
are those races are crazilyexpensive.
I was looking at how much Ispent, oh my gosh.
Like I was looking at how muchI spent on races in the past and
don't get me wrong, I lovedoing a bunch of races every
year, but when you add it up,you could do like a destination
race like that, oh, yeah, andyou know, I feel like this I'm

(47:14):
getting the point where, like Idid so many races over the years
and just like back to back,like weekend after weekend after
weekend, like that's whatreally would like burn me out, I
think, and got me injured andsick and all that.
But if you just do like one ortwo a year or three, that's
probably what I need to do, justso I can balance out the rest
of my life.
Because, like, yeah, if you'redoing, if you're doing like

(47:34):
multiple alters a year, and thenyou have your parenting, you
have a relationship, I mean like, yeah, you're probably going to
get pneumonia and you'reprobably going to mess up your
life.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
To get to that, that you know that thought and that
aspect in life.
Was it difficult, were you ableto?
I mean, how did you come upwith that thought, man of uh,
you know one or two or threeraces a year just to get life
back?

Speaker 2 (48:04):
you know manage it's, it's rough man, like I miss
that life so bad.
Like I miss like seeing all myfriends out there.
I love the lifestyle.
Man, I'll tell you this, lyingdown for a week, not being able
to run, getting sick constantlyPneumonia was the worst man,

(48:25):
having to constantly go back tothe hospital.
I know it's not as bad as it'snot as like bad as other
illnesses and stuff like that,but I was messed up.
I mean, like I got to the pointI was so run down, yeah, and I
think that was just theculmination of years.
And um, yeah, as hard as is tocome off of that.
I mean, so I've told a fewpeople of this like coming off

(48:47):
of, like the races I've done.
Like you can look at my ultrasign up.
I'm a nut and there's likestuff I did that it's not even
on there, like I just I would dostuff back to back to back and
then, um, it's like coming offdrugs.
I mean it's, it's very hard tostop that lifestyle, but you
know, for me I had to just tellmyself.
You know you gotta chill out,man, like that's.
And you know this year is veryhard.

(49:07):
This is the first year in awhile that I've, you know, been.
I've been this like conservativewith my race schedule yeah like
I said, I wasn't even going todo more than one race.
But you know, uh, ainsley'sangels contacted me and you know
, like, I hope they contact mefor other stuff.
I'd love that, that's.
I think that would help get meout of the rut.
I'm in, just you know, doingother races with them.
But, you know, hopefullyanother opportunity presents

(49:29):
itself also.
But I just want to do some likewholesome stuff and stuff that
will help others and, just youknow, heal myself.
And yeah, it is so hard to stopthat lifestyle though I, I mean,
yeah, it's just, it's such ahell of a ride and I miss it
dearly.
Yeah, did you, did you run inhigh school?
So this is an interesting story.

(49:51):
Like, um, I did track in middleschool, not even like a minute.
Like I was, just, I was aterrible student, I was an idiot
.
I was partying, constantlychasing girls.
Um, yeah, I, I wish I did sobadly.
Like, so, like with my daughter, I, um, I, you know, I, she's

(50:12):
done some races with me, she'sdone some 5ks and she's done
some local races here, like thekid races, and, uh, you know, I
tried to lead her into running,but, um, she, she's a dancer and
, like um, I hope that you knowshe explores other sports also,
but, like you know, I don't everwant to lead her away from what
she loves.

(50:33):
That's probably one of mybiggest regrets in life is I
didn't get to do track and fieldNot track and field, but cross
country in high school.
I think that would have been areally good experience.
Then I could have married arunner.
I could have actually had agood life.
No, I'm kidding.
No, I really regret not doingthat, because everyone knew I

(50:56):
liked running in high school.
I was an idiot man.
I couldn't have the disciplineto get the right grades and I
just wanted to either skip orsmoke weed or just something
stupid.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
I couldn't get together smoke, weed or just
like something stupid.
You know, I um I couldn't gettogether, so I'm trying.
I mean, dude, you've been fulltilt since 2017.
A lot of runners that I've hadon the podcast man.
They started 2017 and they'rephenomenal athletes, but it's
like what happened 2017 that gotyou full tilt.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
I am so glad you're asking this question.
I've been having thoughts aboutthis and I've been having a lot
of conversations.
The period of 2017 to 2019, inmy opinion, that was the best
ever for running.
It was a weird period wheresocial media wasn't that
prevalent yet and people werejust running to run and having a

(51:54):
good time and meet people.
It was so genuine and so pureand like that's the period where
I met, uh, you know, myex-girlfriend.
Like we met at a, we met at avalentine's day race and like I
was just smitten and, like youknow, it took time, you know,
yeah, for us to, like you know,get together, but like I just
felt like that was easier backthen with social media.

(52:14):
Now, yeah, this is yeah, Idon't want to say the run
community is toxic, because Ilove the community, but like
it's, it's not like how it usedto be.
It was just so awesome and Ithink covid messed up a lot of
stuff with, like you know,everyone started using automated
stuff more, more like new toeat and then like social media
for, like you know, the post ofthe runs, because we were doing
virtual shit.

(52:34):
For, like you know, a year,like you know, running across
Tennessee, you know, and stufflike that, and that was great.
I'm so glad that Laz and SteveDurbin did the great virtual
race across Tennessee because itwas so fun, like that's that,
with all the races gone, thatwas my thing, you know, I was
just like trying to do lots ofmiles on that.
And then the athletes that didit also like you know, like
Harvey Lewis, like oh, I'm goingto try to get, I'm going to try

(52:56):
to keep up with Harvey today.
It was so fun and I think thedownside to it, like as fun as
that was like I know a lot ofpeople had a miserable
experience with COVID.
I had a wonderful time.
I was just running constantly Ido like a 50k in the morning

(53:16):
and then staying with mydaughter all day and watch
scooby-doo and eat food and justlike chill out.
It was amazing.
But, um, I think the aftermathof that and how the running
community shifted after that tomore automation, more, um, you
know, just social media involvedit's, it's not like it used to
be.
I mean like and I think that alot of people back there before
covid, I think now we're justkind of like I mean, maybe I'm
just old, but I'm, I'm.
I'm thinking about yesteryear alot and that maybe that's also
why I wanted to just be alone,cause, like when I was training

(53:39):
for like my first marathon, Iwas just running alone.
I never ran with people ever.
Like I felt like so shy to wantto run with other runners in the
club because I hadn't ran amarathon, so I was like I have
to do this first.
It was like so stupid, but likeI liked it.
Like you know, again I wouldlisten to heavy metal music.
I would just be me and I would,you know, just thinking all
these like really positivethoughts, like I can win the
race, like you know, like I cando this and I've done good run

(54:02):
races before, like I've.
I've won in like podium racesbefore, but I've never been like
that dude.
You know, like I, I just likedoing the experience, man, but I
was just.
I feel like back then it wasjust, it was so much more
positive and the sport was pureand I loved it.
It was a great time.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
Yeah, all right.
When you are in the mood tolisten to music while running,
who is your go-to artists?

Speaker 2 (54:24):
Oh God, what is your go-to?
Anything like hard.
I was just like basically, um,this was before, like remember
when, like, um, you had downloadmusic individually, like back
in the day, like for me.
So like I, I just woulddownload like an album and just
be like you know, I would justgo out and just like listen to
that one on repeat, like I wouldmaybe get like a metallic album

(54:47):
, um, just just anything I would.
I would go on like all musiccombe like what sounds like this,
what sounds like that, so like Iwould actually also just really
get into music too.
That way it was.
It was awesome.
Okay, I had a good time doingthat.
Just like researching stuff,like what, who's the hardest out
there, you know, just likestuff.
That would just really fire meup yeah, I got you, I got you.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
So you're, uh, from start to the album, to the end
of the album.
Right that, start to finish.
You're that type of person.
You're not a playlist guy, sothis is weird.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
I'm um, I don't like playlists.
Normally same same.
Yeah, when I, when I drive,it's a little bit different.
I mean, I listen to podcastsbut I might like if the podcast
gets slow they're talking aboutsomething boring that I'm not
into.
Then I'll throw on like acouple songs just to get fired
back up and get my energy up.
But, like it's so weird, likecertain bands I can't listen to

(55:38):
when I'm not running.
Like this might give me someenemies on social media, but
like Tool, for instance, I usedto love Tool growing up but my
attention span again, probablyfrom social mediaiktok and stuff
like that is just fried.
So like an 11 minute song withdifferent moods and stuff like
that that they're trying to set.
You know, it's hard to reallyappreciate that now unless I'm
running.

(55:59):
If I'm running and like youknow, I feel like those songs
work really well because you'regoing through a process, you
might get to a low point andyou're there in the song in the
low point and then it helps youget your momentum back.
Yeah, it works better when Irun, like certain songs, but
yeah, it's weird, like when I'mdriving or just in normal life,
I'm like they'll put me to sleep.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 (56:19):
yeah, I gotcha, I gotcha.
Okay, all right.
So I'm yeah, I'm getting whatyou're putting down.
So so my favorite two albumsman, especially lately and it
sounds weird, but man, I wasalways a fan of uh, painkiller
by judas priest okay, the thatalbum.
The album is top notch if youjust want to get away and not

(56:45):
worry about a slow song.
And then dude, chevelleanything from chevelle is a
great, uh, it's great to workout with, but their latest one
or their last one, not a ross,anyways, it's more earthy, more
sci-fi, ish, oh man, it's one ofthe best albums to check out to

(57:08):
, if, if, if you're in the moodjust to get away and, you know,
bring the focus on running andspeed and everything else.

Speaker 2 (57:16):
So check that out, check that out One thing that
really kind of changed me withmusic, and this is probably why
I don't listen to music as muchas I used to.
And I'm not blaming my daughter, but I think because pretty
much when I'm driving I'm withher, yeah, and we listen to just
pop.
Like, yeah, man, like I can'ttell you how much and like

(57:41):
musicals Like she listens to,like you know she's a dancer and
like she wants to listen to,like basically just musicals,
like the Wicked Out, the Wickedsoundtrack oh, my God, man, like
I've listened to that with hercountless times hamilton, um,
like all the disney stuff andlike, um, yeah, that's not me at
all, but, um, I think, becauseI just listened to that, maybe

(58:02):
I've kind of lost.
I've lost like any kind of like, um, all that stuff, like I had
with like music in 2017.
It's just kind of gone, man.
And then also like when you'rein music in 2017, it's just kind
of gone, man.
And then also like when you'rein a relationship you know it's
hard to like I tried to cater asmuch as I could.
I mean, I had completelydifferent musical tastes than my
ex-girlfriend but, like youknow, you try to cater as best

(58:24):
you can.
So, like musically, I don'teven know who I am anymore.
That's one thing.
Maybe I could get back.
I don't even know who I amanymore.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
That's one thing.
Maybe I could get back, maybenot.
You got to stay true, man.
You got to stay true.
I got three daughters and awife for almost 20 years.
There's no way I'm not going towatch Wicked.
I put Boundary up, man.
I put Boundary.

Speaker 2 (58:47):
Well, I've seen Wicked already.
I've done so much kid stuff.
Uh, yeah, I'm, yeah, I'm kindof soft now, man, like I mean
like again when I run also, it'sjust you know, it's just kind
of like it's my time just tounwind and, you know, just kind
of get meditative or whatever.
It's weird, I'm.
I'm in a weird place, man, whenit comes to, like pop culture,
music.
Well, in a lot of things though, man, and a lot of things,

(59:08):
you're in a weird place, you,when it comes to like pop
culture, music.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
Well, in a lot of things, though, man, in a lot of
things you're in a weird place,you know.
Not not saying anythingnegative, it's just like right
now it sounds like you are stilltrying to find yourself, man,
you know, and what happened withme is like um, and this, this
is tough man like I'm.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
I'm not blaming anybody for my issues, but I
think I tried to help so manypeople as best I could.
I mean, just being a caregiveralone is a hard job.
I mean I was a caregiver forsomebody with cerebral palsy guy

(59:52):
, but it's tough and you do thatand you know, like you're a dad
and you have a girlfriend andyou know it's just like I think
if you just go all in on the onthose three things alone, you
can definitely lose yourself.
And I think, moving forward,I've never and that's the weird
thing Like I've always been,like I've never been scared of
losing myself.
You know I never thought itcould possibly happen and it did
, you know.
So like that's something to bemindful of.
Moving forward and settingboundaries, yeah, and I I don't

(01:00:13):
even.
It's something I'm definitelygonna have to work on doing,
because I don't know how to doit Still, even after what's
happened to me.
But I'm hoping you know as sadas the situation is with me in
the time of my life I'm in, Ican use it to protect myself
later.
I think, if anything, thatwould be a happy ending in some
aspect, you know so it's almostlike you're going through a

(01:00:33):
midlife crisis, but not really.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
Well, it's weird.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
That's another thing.
Like with running, I feel likewith running I can go into my
divorce in my you know, mythirties, you know late thirties
.
I feel like that was runningmight have been my midlife
crisis to begin with.
Like I always ask myself, like,when's going to be?
When is going to be the lastyear I run?
You know, like, was it?
Was it just a midlife crisis?
You know, like, I love runningwith everything I have.

(01:00:57):
It's my identity, it's who I amas a person.
I never want to leave it but,like I've been, I've been
exploring a lot lately, like whydo people quit running?
Like, was it because, like,mental health stuff was because
of relationship?
Like you know, you didn't wantto see that person at a race.
You know you didn't want to.
You didn't want to be connectedto people that were associated
with you before you had thistragedy happen.

(01:01:17):
Um, was it an injury?
You know, like, what makespeople stop running?
You know it's reallyinteresting to think about and,
you know, I hope that doesn'thappen to me.
Maybe that's why I motivatemyself, motivate myself to keep
running, because I don't want itto happen ultimately.
But it is tough, man.
I mean, like, once you hit thatwall and something really hard
happens in life to keep doingthese things.

(01:01:38):
Like just what kind of?
What kind of psychopath justgets up and wants to run like 20
miles by themselves.
You know, like how do you?
I think about that, like my God, like how did I have so much
motivation to do it?
Like was I really that badafter my divorce?
You know, it's just sointeresting to think about and
like I try to tell myself, likeyou've been here before, you can
do this, get yourself out ofthe gutter and go in a run.

(01:02:01):
But, um, yeah, I've beenthinking a lot about people's
motivations and that's onepositive about social media with
me as much as, like I I kick it.
I feel like seeing people'sworkouts and, like you know,
seeing them fired up.
I don't get jealous of themlike some people like I'd like
to see it because, like it doeshelp me.
I'm, like you know, thisperson's going through some real
shit right now and like I canapply it to my situation.

(01:02:23):
Be like you know, I just got toget myself together.
Like you know, somebody withcancer, somebody with, like you
know, some some serious issues,you know that stuff fires me up
yeah, and a lot of things too.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
You gotta, you gotta realize man a lot of that stuff
is fake too.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
Man a lot of it's fake man honestly, I don't care
if it is fake, because if ithelps, I look at this way, man.
If it helps you get me throughmy shit I've been like is it
really bad?
You know, I don't care ifthey're trying to get likes.
If they can help motivate meand make me happy, I'm not going
to knock them.
I mean, they're trying to dosome good for somebody.
I think there is some positivesto it.

(01:03:02):
But I get what you're saying,man, and I even agree
no-transcript, shoot for allyour runs and whatnot yeah, if
it's not on strava, it didn'thappen.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
If you didn't take a picture before, during or after
a race, it didn't happen.
You know, and I'm just, I justgo out there and do it, and if
it's a 11 minute mile, it's 11minute mile.
I don't care if it's a 10, ifit's a 9, if it's an 8.
You know, I just do it, so Ithink the problem is this, you

(01:03:43):
know, I.

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
I think that what probably makes me most annoyed
about the whole thing is, youknow, know, it's so funny.
Like you know, the jokes arealways, like you know, running
such an inexpensive sport, butyou have, like you know, your
watch your shoes like you need ashoe, I mean, like, if you're
doing heavy miles.
It is not an expensive sport.
And I think what happens now isbecause running has become so

(01:04:07):
commercial and people areprofiting off of it and there's
influencers.
You're, you know, especially ifyou want to do an expensive
race, you're going to have tosell out to some extent.
You are, I mean, like, unlessyou're, like you know, making a
lot of money and you can, youknow, you can just, like you
know, just eat the cost.
Yeah, I mean, you're going tohave to sell out a little bit,

(01:04:29):
and that's just.
I think a lot of people, uh,even if they didn't want to do
the, you know, the photos, thephoto shoot style, instagram
posts and stuff like that, a lotof them have had this or come
to that, myself included,because you know many people do
that yeah, I know and you knowwhat I'm guilty and I, you know
I I sit here and talk shit, butyou know I I do the same thing
and I think it's just becauseyou know you're going back back

(01:04:50):
to all the races and stuff thatI've done.
You know like it helps you, ithelps pay for your gear and it
helps with bibs and stuff likethat.
But I'm hoping in the future Idon't have to do as much and the
stuff I do like you know I loveto write, I love to do podcasts
I want to do that stuffgenuinely and not trying to get
something in return.
But I feel like, just becauseyou're so desperate, because

(01:05:11):
stuff's expensive and you'retrying to like get gear, you end
up selling out like that and Idon't want to do that.
I want to do stuff that'sgenuine and I want to be able to
do my own art.
You know how I want to do itand you know okay.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
Well, when do you think bad water is going to come
around, man?

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
so I'm going to apply in january but I have got to
finish devil dog.
But I think that's part of mymotivation because, like with
devil dog, I've finished ittwice and I've dnf'd twice and
like the way the times I dnf'dit were, just they were bad like
I just um, both times I think Igot no okay.
The first time I dnf'd I got tolike mile 60 and I was having

(01:05:48):
some major issues.
That one was understandablebecause I did stupid amount of
races that year.
Second time it was in 2023, Ibelieve I had the energy to
finish it and I did a lot ofraces that year too.
But it just started pouringrain for hours.
I had a poncho on, the waterwas going through the poncho
somehow I was just soaked and,um, I didn't have proper rain

(01:06:12):
gear and I got to mile 75 andthat's just.
It sucks on 100 mile if you getto like oh yeah, or 80, like I.
I've gotten that.
You know I've gotten to 90 indnf to race before night it
happens, man it happens that'sfreaking brutal.
So, like this year, I'm tryingto get pacers, I'm trying to get
people that you know to comeout and help, uh, crew me, and

(01:06:33):
stuff like that.
Because I'm like you man, likemy first, oh my gosh, like my
first few attempts at ultras anda lot of my ultras, I would
just go alone and just like nothave crew and just do it.
And I've had success doing it,that I've won a race doing it
that way before, like I couldn'thave anyone come out and the
race is like in new jersey and,um, yeah, like I, I've somehow,
like I don't know how, likefired up and just did on my own.

(01:06:55):
But there's other times, man, Ijust like I'll just quit a race
.
It's like I'm done, you know,like I I just get, I get, I get
dark man, it's just, um, it'sjust not there and I don't want
that to happen this year and I'mtotally understand that I I'm
trying to use motivation fromyou know, bad work, because
that's something I've wanted todo my whole life.
Like I was one of those guysthat watched, like the Running
on the Sun doc, when I was, likeyou know, very young, and like

(01:07:18):
people do that, what the hell isthis for?
Like, I used to think ultrarunning was just like reserved
for, like you, certain people.
Like you could, like, nobodycan do it.
Like, you can sign up for anultra, like when I first yeah,
yeah, you can sign up for thatas, like a civilian, they let

(01:07:40):
you do that.
Maybe they shouldn't be, maybethey should have qualifiers, I
don't know.
Like, uh, yeah, I, I, um, II've always wanted to do bad war
, so I'm hoping that, becauseI'm in a place now that I can do
that, I, um, I'll you, you know, I'll utilize this opportunity
and also shout out to the devildog race director because, like
when everything went downhillwith my girlfriend or
ex-girlfriend, um, I told him Iwas like, hey, give the bib to
charity, give it to somebodythat doesn't have money that's

(01:08:01):
going to appreciate the race isbecause I don't appreciate
running right now.
And I was just saying like allthis horrible stuff about myself
, and he was like, yeah, yeah,okay, okay.
And then, uh, his name is pat,basically, uh, I messaged him
like, I think, like last week, Iwas like, don't give my good
name, but I'm coming back.
And he was like, uh, he's like,I thought you were gonna do
that, john.
So like, yeah, the rinkcommunity is cool, there's

(01:08:21):
people like that, yeah, and I'mI'm.
He knew that I was goingthrough some shit and he knew
I'd be back and hopefully I canfinish that race this time.
I got to you know I'm two fortwo man.
I got to get, I got to get over500 on it and maybe be able to
do something good moving forwardwith it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
What?
What's your go-to snack?
What's your go-to man?
No, just training during therace.

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
I'm going to be honest with you, man.
Like, um, I hate gels and I,for a while, I use them, and
they're expensive.
I think they're horrible.
They give me diarrhea.
I'm just gonna be honest withyou, man, I can't stand gels and
um, I'm at the point now, uh, Iwould, if it's an ultra, or,
like you know, just um, you know, if I'm doing like an old, like

(01:09:09):
an ultra style, like paced run,or I'm up, I'm doing like a
faster, like marathonish run or,like you know, 5k or whatever I
, I wouldn't need for a 5k, but,um, you know what I'm saying
like, um, faster, slower, I like, just like you know, like the,
the gummies that kids have, the,uh, the snacks, the welch's.
They're the best thing, they'recheap.
It's like the same exact shitthat you get from, like you know

(01:09:29):
, know, whatever, uh, from goo,or just like whatever you want
to call those gels.
Um, yeah, I like those.
They're cheaper and they don'tmess with my stomach.
That's my go-to.
Those things are awesome.
You can use them in anysituation and you're good.

Speaker 1 (01:09:44):
Okay, all right, the one piece of equipment that you
have to have when running,training or racing, the one
piece of equipment that you need.

Speaker 2 (01:09:56):
So this is what messes me up.
I mean I have to have a goodshoe rotation and, like, the way
I have to keep it is I run outwith a lot of different shoes.
I think right now I have like10 pairs of shoes that rotate
between maybe even more.
If something gets old, I justlike try to get a new pair of
shoes in there.
And that's stressful because,like you know, um I you have to

(01:10:17):
keep the rotation going, but, um, when, like, multiple ones die
out, like I just get like sooverwhelmed.
So, um, yeah, having a propershoe rotation to me it's helped
keep me from injury.
Um, also, I can vary my, youknow, different workouts with,
like you know, tempo runs for,like you know, certain shoes, um
, or like slower runs, and thenlike shoes that are dying I'll

(01:10:40):
use for, like you know, likejunkier miles and stuff like
that.
I don't know, I'm sorry you canuse that term, that's, that's a
horrible term to even use, butjust, if I'm doing like a slower
pace run, I get it, I get it.
Yeah, so, like, for me, I don'tcare what kind of clothes I
wear, I don't care what kind of,like you know, pack I have, or
anything like that.
My go-to is just having thatproper sugar rotation, because
if you don't have that, I mean,like you know, anytime I got

(01:11:03):
injured, pretty much was becauseI had a four, two rotation and
um you know, I'm just pushing myrace.
I shouldn't have been and I'mcheap too, so like I've.
I've had situations where I hadlike racing shoes and just I
know they're expensive.
You know, you like carbonplated ones that I just pushed
way too long just because Ididn't want to buy another pair.
Yeah, like like they'recracking in half and stuff and

(01:11:24):
I'm like don't do it because,like they're just expensive and
um, yeah, that that's, it's justknowing when they're like you
know, toss those, like yourecycle those and just um
keeping that rotation properwhat's your go-to shoe man?
right now.
What brand?
Wow, oh man.
So this is gonna be funny.

(01:11:45):
But, um, I've always been a fanof like the nike vaporfly and
AlphaFly.
I can never afford it, but whenI do have those shoes, gosh man
, I mean like there's so,there's so fun to run it.
It's like I love doing ultrasand stuff like that.
I've never been a fast ultrarunner, so I kind of with ultras
like any kind of trail, soyou'll just wear it.
But when I'm running a marathonit's more finesse and stuff

(01:12:06):
like that.
So like running a marathon withlike an alpha fly or a vapor fly
, it's just a treat, you know,it's just like one of those
things.
It's, it's beauty, I mean likeI know it sounds weird, but it's
just, it's almost like avacation man, you're just like.
You know it's.
I feel like it's the shoe.
When you have a shoe that'slike your shoe, that feels
wearing on a race like that, youknow the race is fun, you're

(01:12:27):
just.
Everything is perfect.
And I feel like Nike's got tothe point with the vapor fly,
vapor fly and alpha fly.
That it's just.
I know they're expensive, butif you're able to get that shoe,
it's just a wonderfulexperience, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:12:41):
And you're sticking to it, right?

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
I mean I I never ended up in that shoe.
I always get like the cheapcarbon plate shoe, but you know
what's also a in that shoe.
I always get like the cheap, uh, carbon plate shoe, but you
know it's also a dependable shoe.
Um, the Atreyu uh, I forgetwhat they're called right now Um
, they have a racing model.
It might even be called aracing model because all their
stuff is, like you know, scaleddown.
It's just kind of like you knowit's the cheapest carbon plate

(01:13:05):
shoe out there.
I believe you can with like acoupon.
You can get it, I think, undera hundred dollars or right at a
hundred.
I run in that a lot.
Um, okay, yeah, I mean thatthat's my go-to training shoe
and you can even use on a raceif you want to.
But yeah, it's funny, like onthe on the lower side of the
spectrum, the uh, yeah, the trayyou want.

(01:13:25):
It's amazing too, just becauseit's so cheap and it's a good
carbon plated shoe okay, socarbon plated shoes, that's your
go-to I mean, if I'm gonna runlike a road race, that's it.
Um, and that'll be interestingfor, like you know, if I do get
into bad water, what shoe towear for that I know a lot of
people because I've done the uh,the bad water cape year.
It's funny too, because theywere showing me some of their

(01:13:45):
shoes on that race.
Like, yeah, I wore this on 135and it's like she's like falling
apart, it's like melted andshit.
Yeah, yeah, I think for thatrace I'm not going to try to
smoke, like, of course, like aon a marathon, so, like, I'll
probably just get like a pairlike the bondi, like the hookah
bondi or something like that.
Yeah, yeah, just somethingthat's stacked up high, that if
it does melt a little bit onthat hard, you know, uh, on the

(01:14:07):
harder on the road and stufflike that, uh, you know it'll be
okay.
But yeah, I just for certain,for certain races it's all about
comfort.
And then others, you know, like, I like to go out and run fast,
but I mean that's always why Iknow ultra runners don't like
merit ladders and stuff likethat.
I know there's it's a differentworld, but, um, I like all
forms of running.
Like I said, you know I'm verypassionate about running in

(01:14:28):
general.
It's my life.
I don't care if it's a mile, Idon't care if it's 100 miles, I
you know, I love it now, are you, are you ready for the heat?

Speaker 1 (01:14:39):
that's a different kind of heat, man.
You guys have to deal withhumidity over in virginia, but
this one is like different heat,this hot, heat, hot.
So are you willing to, you know, take it and make it your own.

Speaker 2 (01:14:55):
Basically, like, um, at my gym we've got a sauna.
I plan on living in that thing.
You know, if I could, if youwatch all the docs and, like you
know, if you follow the peoplethat do the race, they usually
build a sauna in their house.
Um, I might house, um, I mightdo something like that.

(01:15:18):
I mean, it's not gonna be asfancy as others, but, um, yeah,
I, I plan on doing things ofthat nature.
And you're training in the heatwearing, um, you know wearing
clothes, you know overdressingon runs like trash bags or
whatever, but I got to get infirst once I get in, I'll you
know.

Speaker 1 (01:15:26):
Once I, if I can get in, I'll definitely come up with
unique ways to suffer and beready for the heat yeah, well,
this past uh summer I was uh inthe, I was in arizona and san
bernardino, you know thecalifornia area and man, by the
time, it's like five, sixo'clock, man, it's like over 100
degrees, dude it's.

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
You gotta get that run in like early am yeah, it
sucks, man.

Speaker 1 (01:15:51):
So I ended up, you know, getting there early in the
am and finishing and like rightbefore the pm started so I was
like yes, I'm done.
All right, let's go enjoymyself for a bit.

Speaker 2 (01:16:03):
So like two, two years ago, I went to florida on
vacation with my, um, my family,and uh, yeah, I mean, it's the
humidity there is crazy, and itwas like one of those I think it
was the hottest day on recordat the time like one of the days
I went out and ran, like mystrategy always, always, um, run
early and then, like like inthe middle of the night also, so

(01:16:24):
I would do two runs and try toget, like you know, I don't know
, like 10, 15 miles throughoutthe day.
But, um, I'm going back toflorida next and I'm going to.
So I'm going to, I'm going tohang out with some legends there
.
I'm not, you know, follow me,follow my adventure on social
media, you'll see some coolpeople I'm going to be hanging
out with.
But basically, yeah, that'sprobably what I'm going to do

(01:16:44):
there, or do, unfortunately,some treadmill if I have to
during the day.
But, uh, I mean, like that,that's the thing with florida.
I mean like I wish I couldtrain there if I do get in the
bad water, because, like, I feellike the florida runners have
an advantage over anybodybecause that humidity is brutal,
like running there years back.
I was just thinking the wholetime like this is the best

(01:17:05):
trading possible.
Like that's why these peopleare so fit.
I mean they are like it's soit's so rough to run out there
and I mean I know they don'thave bills and stuff like that,
but I mean, if you can run fastin that humidity, you can do
anything.
In my opinion and I know thatthe whole like poor man's birth
thing, that's that's fake butlike if you can just go out
there and get it out in that, inthat humidity, I I feel like

(01:17:26):
you can run in any temperature.
That's my opinion.

Speaker 1 (01:17:29):
Right yeah, that humidity makes a difference,
even Virginia humidity, man.
I remember running into that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:37):
It's tough, but like compared to Florida man, and so
like this is so funny.
Like when I went last time withFlorida I was just I couldn't
believe how rough it was Like.
And then, coming back toVirginia, I mean I felt good
Like I probably had advantageover other runners and stuff
like that and it helped me toother races.
But um, yeah, man, I, as bad asVirginia, can get.

(01:17:58):
Wow, like Florida, florida man,yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:03):
I just remember.
You know you get done taking ashower after a workout and
you're still sweating after.

Speaker 2 (01:18:09):
Yeah, I'd wait.
I'd wait like an hour, likenormally, like a year.
I, you know, I try to shower, Iwake because it's gross, but
like I in florida, I'd have tolike wait an hour or even, like
you know, kind of just like takea, like a pre-shower, then go
swim or something, and then youknow, and then take another
shower yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:18:30):
So january you're gonna apply yeah, I think that's
when.

Speaker 2 (01:18:34):
I think that's when it opens up to apply.
We'll see.
Like I said, I've got a reallylong running history.
I've done the bad water capehere two times.
But I mean, you know, it's alimited amount of runners and
they all have a lot ofexperience, so we'll see.
I mean, if I don't get in, I'vegot, I've got other races to do
.
That will you know, make youknow, make me a better candidate
on the next um applicationprocess.

(01:18:55):
But I feel like I can make acompelling case and I've got a
good story.
And you know, I know chris fromdoing kp here.
He knows what I'm about and I'mconfident.
But I I'm not cocky though, youknow, because I know that
there's some people are somotivated right now and like
especially coming off the year,I am you know like.
I mean, you know, I feel likeagain I can make a case, but

(01:19:18):
there's so many good runners outthere, so there's so many
motivated runners and you know,hopefully, my story and what
I've done so far in my running,my running career, that will
allow me.
You know the ability I got you.

Speaker 1 (01:19:32):
I got you, I got you, so I got you.
Man, you know, and just hearingyour story, hearing what you've
gone through, you had a crappyyear, I thought I had one, but
yeah, you, you had a crappy yearand, and you know, you have
your site moving forward andmoving forward.

(01:19:53):
You know, like all of us, itseems to me that you're going to
have to continue to moveforward and find your true self
before getting further ahead.
So I feel like once you do findyourself, You're going to be on
that out man.
So oh gosh.

Speaker 2 (01:20:19):
I've got work to do.
I know it's going to be tough.

Speaker 1 (01:20:22):
Yeah, yeah.
So so my, my thing is continuetalking to people, man, continue
.
You know, if you, if you have acounselor, continue, but I
continue running.
That's the biggest therapy ofthem all.
But you got, you got to talk tosomebody.
You got to talk to somebody,man, I, I'm a social worker, so

(01:20:44):
I I totally get it, not tryingto, you know, do therapy or
anything, but yeah, got to workon yourself and man don't think
you're, don't don't think toonegative about yourself,
especially when it comes totrying to find a girl.

Speaker 2 (01:21:02):
Like I just I.
I miss that, I just I.
I just hope that I'm able tofind somebody in the running
community again.
It was beautiful experience andmaybe somebody that can you
know.
I think it's like this youcan't force your piece.
If it doesn't work, it's notthat person's fault, it's not

(01:21:22):
your fault, it just didn't work.
I'm not going to blame her andI'll always have love in my
heart for her.
It was an amazing experience.

Speaker 1 (01:21:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:21:31):
But if it doesn't work, you know just it's not
going to work, you know, youjust can't do it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:37):
Well, maybe keep an open mind to not have or not try
to get a a girl that's in therunning community.
That's my thoughts too.

Speaker 2 (01:21:47):
You know that's tough , but that's tough.
Man, like I said, I'm, I'm, I'm, I love this.
It's like a part of my life.
Just, you know, I it's a hugepart of my life and to have
somebody in the community islike there's nothing better.
There's really nothing better,but I know all of a sudden that.
But you know that's not the waythings work and you can't force

(01:22:08):
it.
And maybe I did try to forcethis relationship and it ate me
alive.

Speaker 1 (01:22:14):
Yeah, and then you guys are going to, you're going
to continue the cycle, thoughyou know, and then something
happens.
Then you're going to have toavoid certain routes, certain
you know you'll go past a gasstation on, you know, or a
landmark or something.
You're going to be like damn it.
I remember that, man.

Speaker 2 (01:22:32):
this is one time yeah , that's where that argument
occurred.
Or like you know something thatwas really good and you start
crying out of nowhere.
It's just like it's like thealong, you see, it's like this
man, a long run already sucksenough.
Like you're going out there 16,20, 18, whatever miles, I mean
like, and you have to fightthose kind of thoughts also.
At the same time, it is brutaland you know like it's one thing

(01:22:53):
if you're running with otherpeople and maybe that's also why
I don't want to run with otherpeople right now, because, like,
I don't want to say anythingout of anger anymore.
I don't want to, you know, getemotional out of nowhere.
I mean, like, some of this shitright now I just have to deal
with on my own.
It's like, you know, you justhave to face your demon in the
mirror and just you know,whatever happens happens man

(01:23:16):
yeah, exactly, and you know what?

Speaker 1 (01:23:18):
keep keep trucking with your, your daughter, keep
being the father that you are toher man, and enjoy hamilton,
enjoy moana 2, enjoy all those,man you know, all these live
action disney movies yeah, let'sgo.
Yeah, the new lilo and stitchlive action looks pretty decent.
I might end up hitting that,you know, and yeah, but man,

(01:23:42):
you'll find yourself, man, andyou know if, if and when you do
get into bad water, hit me up.
We'll definitely, uh, connectagain on on the podcast and make
an episode, you know before orafter, and uh, yeah, definitely
keep in touch please, I'll needhelp from all the west coasters
out there because you know it istough for any coaster to go out

(01:24:05):
there.

Speaker 2 (01:24:05):
I mean I've got friends that are going out there
this year and like it'sstressful the amount of money it
is and everything, but it'stotally worth it.
It's an amazing experience.
It's.
Like you know again, I'vefollowed this race since I was
like a kid.
It was like the first ultra Ieven heard about, I think ever,
and um, yeah, man, I definitelythink it's worth the experience
and it's worth the planning andit's worth, like, the sacrifice

(01:24:25):
to do the race yeah, do you?
uh hit up shenandoah valley ohyeah I mean like so I I'm like
great, so this is kind of tough.
I mean, I used to go to thetrails all the time.
Lately I've just been so busywith my kids, like this like I
live in a place calledrichardsville.

(01:24:46):
It's very rural, um endlessplaces to run though, but it's
not mountainous or anything likethat, so I've just been getting
my miles in here, um, becauseit's it's so convenient, like I
just did pop out the door andjust run like 16 miles or
whatever.
So, like I'm just doing thatI'm lucky to have the setup I
have, but I would love to dosome trail stuff, and a lot of
the times in the past like, um,you know, I I'm, uh, I'm in a

(01:25:10):
great club here in virginia, thevirginia happy trails running
club.
Uh, you know, they do a lot offree races.
You know a lot of like 50ks andhigher um yeah.
so I would just do like raceswith them and like group runs
and go to brutal places likemass and nutton and like you
know, like wow, they are allkinds of cool places.
You know, places in Shenandoah.

(01:25:31):
I haven't done that lately justbecause I've been so busy with
my kid and all the recentcurrent events, but I want to
get back out there more.
It's just, yeah, out ofconvenience I've just been
running around and I hope I doget back to the trails more.
I miss it all.
I miss it a lot.
But yeah, in order to get likethe mileage I need, I've just

(01:25:52):
been trying to focus on kid restand dealing with my mind.

Speaker 1 (01:25:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:25:58):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:25:59):
All right.
So where can people find youman On Instagram Breezy?

Speaker 2 (01:26:03):
Trailhead.
Just give me a follow and seemy insanity on a daily basis.
I mean, like, like we discussedearlier, I like posting on
there just to show people, likeyou know, I'm a single dad, I go
through shit and somehow I canget in my runs.
And you know, like for anyonestruggling to get into running
or just like in general, I meanyou don't even have to be a
runner Just you know I like topost that stuff, just so people

(01:26:26):
can see that you know I'm ableto do it somehow and I hope I
can get information to othersespecially.
You know I try to be like rawand candid on there, just so
like people can see that.
It's like you know it's astruggle, it's a struggle for
fitness, it's a struggle formental health and you know, you
know you're not alone.

Speaker 1 (01:26:43):
There's like there's a lot of um, you know there's a
lot of people struggling outthere and I try to just, you
know, show them that you knowI'm working hard to do the best
I can and hopefully I canmotivate them to do something
too.
Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, for sure,for sure.
Well, 70 miles a week right now, and you say you're struggling
and got barriers totally getthat.

(01:27:04):
But dude, 70 miles a week,that's pretty good, that's.
That's.
That's a, a lot, and to managethat and your home life is
pretty awesome so it's tough.

Speaker 2 (01:27:15):
It's tough like again .
Like anywhere I go, I have tosee uh, where I used to live
with her, with her and um, yeah,there's some days I don't want
to see that and you know, I justum, it's so weird, it's like
the weirdest situation I've everbeen, like.
I just sometimes I just likehave to put the blinders on.
I'm like, do, do, do, do.
Do you just think of happythoughts?

Speaker 1 (01:27:33):
I'm doing the happy dance, doing happy dance yeah,
so maybe be open to not get arunner as a girlfriend next time
I mean like again there'snothing there's nothing better
in life if you can share a hobbywith somebody and it's an
awesome thing, but it's just sohard.

(01:27:55):
I gotcha and you know there'stimes when my wife wanted to
fight me because I always diddestination runs for vacations.
You know I'd go on vacation andtake a run, you know, and she
hated that, so you know Istopped doing that vacation and
take a run, you know, and shehated that.

Speaker 2 (01:28:14):
So, you know, I stopped doing that.
So I think, no matter whatrelationship you're in runner,
non-runner, whatever I thinkthat you know you have to have
empathy and you have to be ableto compromise.
And again, man, like you know,I know that this didn't work out
for me, but I could have stilldone a better job.
I still think, even if I did abetter job, it wouldn't work,
just because there was just toomuch conflict and there is too
much, there is too much stuffgoing on.

(01:28:35):
But, um, you know, if you know,if anything, moving forward,
I'm good, I'm I, I I need, Ineed to learn to be a more
empathetic person towards others.
With, again, without empathy, Ifeel like you know, yeah, it's
like, who are you?
You know, you're like, what areyou doing in life?
You are, you, are you evil?
You know, like you have to, youhave to have that, you have to

(01:28:55):
be a better person.

Speaker 1 (01:28:56):
Yeah, I got you All right, john.
Is there anything you wouldlike to add?

Speaker 2 (01:29:04):
Did I forget anything ?
That was a lot, man.
I feel like we just did atherapy session.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:29:15):
No, I a lot, man.
I feel like we just did atherapy session, thank you, no,
I wasn't man.
It was, uh, quite insightfuland you know I'm sorry for your
loss, dude, seriously, I'm sorryabout you know, the thing going
sour.
It sucks to even know you.
You're dealing with theaftermath of, you know,
heartache and heartbreak andyeah, that sucks, dude, it's

(01:29:37):
been a while, since I've hadthat, what's that?

Speaker 2 (01:29:39):
Well, I hope, if anything, you know, this story
helps others that are goingthrough something similar,
because it's, I feel like it'snot really talked about and the
running community is small.
It's not really talked aboutand the running community is
small.
I mean, like if you, you know,if you share a lot of like your
personal stuff, um, with withthe significant other, you know,
and you show them, you know allyour sacred stuff and running,
and then it's just gone.

(01:30:00):
It changes the dynamic and thenyou have to change yourself and
that's like it's a lot to dealwith and you know, like for
anyone else that's had to dothat, I mean, yeah, yeah, it's
well, they even cut coffee out.
Dude, that's a lot well, I, I'm,I know runners and coffee.

(01:30:20):
I had this conversation thismorning.
Like I feel like, yeah, that'sand that's, you know I will, I
like that.
I really, I really do like thewhole like that's, like our drug
basically is this coffee.
But, um, yeah, like dude, Ican't even tell you like my
sleep has been so poor the lasttwo years.
I just, I have to do somethingabout it.

(01:30:43):
Like that's, I'm about to do aphysical um next week and I'm
just terrified what the doctor'sgoing to tell me, like, I mean
like physical um next week andI'm just terrified what the
doctor's gonna tell me like Imean like, so I'm trying really
hard to get healthy and just cutstuff out and I may revisit.
Like I said, I had two cups ofcoffee today but I haven't had
any the rest of the week.
But I'm gonna try to reallygood for you.

(01:31:04):
Until I get my shit together,man, and I sleep back.
I'm gonna try to cut out it alot, you know all right.

Speaker 1 (01:31:10):
Well, keep me posted, john, keep us posted.
You guys can follow him atwhere breezy trailhead on
instagram.
Okay, and uh, dude, thank youso much john for sharing your
story.
Man, you could always come backand, uh, when you do get bad
water, I want you back, and then, after bad water, I want you
back, if that's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:31:31):
So hopefully they take me, hopefully, hopefully
I'm worthy enough.
But I mean again, if you lookat me, an ultra sign up and the
stuff I've done I'm a crazy dudeand they like crazy people, so
I think I'm gonna fit in, yeahokay, well, until next time.

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