How to Turn Military Discipline into Business Success: John Wayne Troxell’s Guide

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tom (00:00):
Militarily Speaking, Episode 72, John Wayne Troxell.
We're just going to go like that,like Madonna, or just one name.

Jodi (00:08):
One name.
Michael.
Yes.
Hopefully it's one of histhree names that you pick.
This episode, we talk with JohnWayne Troxell, Senior Enlisted Advisor to the Chairman.
Welcome

Tom (00:30):
to Militarily Speaking, brought to you by Armed Forces Bank.
This is Tom McLean.
And, and her, and me, and Jody Vickery.
I am the military retail executivefor Armed Forces Bank, and Jody is the executive vice president director of consumer banking.
I'm thrilled to have Jody on our team.
She's the straw that stirs

Jodi (00:49):
as long as it's stirring coffee, you can use that all day long.
We can use that again.
Welcome to our show.
We're excited to have youlistening and learning all about our guest, John Wayne Troxell.
We don't want to take a minute,John, and tell our audience a little bit about your background.
And then I think you'll,you'll do a, there's a lot

Tom (01:04):
to say about it.
There's a lot.
Like

Jodi (01:05):
I could do a whole podcast, but I'm going to do this.
Skinny down version because I knowJohn will speak to it in far more detail than I could do service to it.
So Army Command Sergeant Major John WayneTroxell served our country for 38 years.
Thank you so much for your service.
Most recently served as the seniorenlisted advisor to the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and
the senior, and he was the seniornon commissioned officer in the U.

(01:27):
S.
Armed Forces from December 11thto 2015 until his retirement on December 13th, 2019.
In that role, he served as the principalmilitary advisor to the Chairman and the Secretary of Defense on all matters involving joint and combined
total force integration, utilization,health of the force, and joint development for enlisted personnel.
He's got a storied career, no doubtabout it, as I read all your accolades.

(01:48):
I did want to highlight that you had fivecombat tours of duty, including making the combat parachute jump and service in Operation Just Cause in Panama.
Operation Desert Shields and Storm, twotours on Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan.
So again, thank you for 38years of service to our country.
Thank you.
Somewhat inadequate, butit's important to say that.

(02:10):
And I think in summary, I'd saypost retirement, you're an author, you're a consultant in a lot of
different varieties, and we arejust honored and happy to welcome you to the show this afternoon.

John Wayne Troxell (02:21):
Well, thanks so much, Tom and Jody.
It's a, it's an honor to be here today.

Jodi (02:25):
I would love for you to do, do far more justice to your, your story military career than, than I would be able to do.
And just give our audience kind of a, kindof a glimpse into your background and your military career as a starting point today.

Yeah, so I was born in Springfield, Illinois.
I grew up in Davenport, Iowa, QuadCities, USA, right on the Mississippi River, joined the military when I
was 18 years old as a kid that hadno purpose, motivation, direction.
And I got into the military and I,as Forrest Gump would say, I was kind of like one of those round pegs.
I fit in there and I got to my firstduty station and within a month I met this young lady named Sandra Jimenez.

(03:04):
This was in El Paso, Texas andsix months for bliss, right?
Bliss bliss.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Back when the third ACR was there andwe got married in September of 83.
So we've been married 41 years.
She was with me for 38 years.
And we've raised three sons.
I, like you said, I spent fivetours of in combat, spent a lot of years in the 82nd airborne division.

(03:27):
Striker brigade kind of units,heavy units and light units.
So I've got a diverse background,but I spent almost 20 years as a command sergeant major in the army,
culminating, as you described,the senior enlisted advisor to the chairman of the Joint Chiefs staff.
For 43 of my 48 months, I workedfor Marine General Joe Dunford.
As well as Secretary of Defense'svarious ones, Ash Carter for a year, God rest his soul, Jim Mattis for two

(03:54):
years, and then various ones in my lastyear, which culminated with Mark Esper.
And for my last five months, Iworked for General Mark Milley when he was the chairman.
And I was a reconnaissance soldierthroughout my career, but again, spent a lot of time in infantry
units as well as heavy armyunits, so a pretty diverse career.

(04:15):
And now I'm a small businessowner of PME Hard Consulting.
And I'm a leadership coach,brand ambassador, a motivational speaker, and I'm a published author
of my memoir, Surrender or Die,Reflections of a Combat Leader.
And now my wife and I live inLakewood, Washington, where I served twice before here at Joint Base
Lewis McChord as a Stryker BrigadeCSM and as the First Corps CSM.

(04:39):
When we retired out of the Pentagon,all of our sons were located here, and so we wanted to be around our grandchildren, so we moved here.
Now we, all of our kids are grown up.
We have four grandchildren and we alsoare raising two puppies right now.
Two Yorkie pus who area pain in my right now,
, Jodi: that's the most intimidating part of what you've talked about, . Yeah.

Tom (05:01):
Jody's got five dogs.

Jodi (05:03):
I have five dogs.
We have 5 0 4 chihuahuas and a red healer.
I love Chihuahuas.
Yeah, they're, they're super fun.
They're kind of, yeah, they're feisty.
Crazy and fun and yeah,snugly when they wanna be.

Tom (05:14):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Sometimes Jodi will wake up oneday and it'll just be on her head.
Actually that's a true story.
A dog sleeping on her head.
Yeah.
That is actually

Jodi (05:20):
a true story.
Yeah.
It's funny hearing youtalk about Fort Bragg.
I used to work with a gentlemanand he always called Fort Bragg the center of the military universe.
100%.
The center of the universe.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Tom (05:32):
And now we have to call it Fort Liberty.
I know.
I know.

Jodi (05:35):
Back then it was Fort Bragg.
It'll always

Tom (05:37):
be Fort Bragg.
That's how he always introduced

Jodi (05:38):
himself.
I'm stationed at Fort Bragg.
Or you know, when I,

when I, my first tour of duty at Fort Bliss and then I did three years in Germany in heavy units, I re enlisted to go to Fort Bragg.
To the 82nd Airborne Division, and whenI got there, and I saw the culture of excellence, I saw the esprit de corps, I saw just the pride brimming from being

(06:01):
a paratrooper in the 82nd, I knew Ihad found my calling there, and I never wanted to leave, unfortunately I had to leave, but every time I, I had to leave.
There was a tear in my eye leavingknowing that I wasn't going to wear that maroon beret anymore.
Yup.

Jodi (06:15):
Yup.

Where were you at in Germany?
First time in 1984 to 87 at a placecalled Gelnhausen back when the 3rd Armored Division was there.
I served in the 3rd Battalion, 33rd Armor.
Then I was there again in 92 to95 in Schweinfurt when the 3rd Infantry Division was there.
I mean, they're in Fort Stewart,Georgia, but I served in Schweinfurt in the 3rd Squadron, 3rd Force Cavalry.

(06:38):
Which at the time was the Division CavalrySquadron for the 3rd Infantry Division.

Jodi (06:43):
Gotcha.
I always ask.
My husband was in Gheeson for a while.
Oh,

yeah.
Right down the road from,

Jodi (06:48):
from

Gelnausen.

Jodi (06:49):
Yeah.
Yep.
In 2001.
He was in, he was stationedin Gheeson when 9 11 happened.
So yeah.

Tom (06:53):
Wow.
Awesome.
Dirty's husband was in the,on the recruiter side of the house during his time.
He

Jodi (06:59):
would tell you he was field drop, field artillery before that for

sure.
Well, I will tell you, recruitingis the most important job.
that we have in the military rightnow in maintaining national security.
Because as you both know,we've gone through a recruiting crisis the last two years.
Yeah.
And a lot of people will saythere's reasons for that.
But in the end, those recruiting noncommissioned officers and officers have the toughest job because if they

(07:24):
don't bring in the requisite talentthat we need to fill the force.
Then we are not going to beable to accomplish the mission on the other end in an overseas assignment in combat or whatever.
So hats off to your husbandbecause being a recruiter.
It's one of the, one of the most toughestjobs, but more importantly, it is the most important job we have right now in maintaining our national security.

(07:49):
Definitely.
It can definitely be tough sledding.

Tom (07:52):
We talk about our frontline teams all, all day long about that too, in the banking business too, about how they're the most important folks on our team too.
So it pales in comparison to on themilitary side for serving our country, but certainly Everybody has their value.
So go take us back to when you were 18,which was just a couple of years ago.
Okay.

Jodi (08:13):
What?
Same for me.
You said you

Tom (08:15):
don't, you don't people say, yeah, I was young and dumb.
I just joined the military.
So, but everybody has a story as to whyyou were in the, you were in the Midwest.
What was the impetus?
What was what got you motivated to sign?

So again, I, I was a half athlete.
I didn't do well in school.
I ran the streets a lot with my friends,but I had this group of older kids from my neighborhood a year or two years older than me, and I would see them leave.
They had joined military serviceand I would see them leave and they were just like me, but when they

(08:47):
returned they had transformed intosomething that really I was in awe of.
They walked a little bit taller, theywalked with their chest out, they were proud, they were sinewy muscular and
fit, and they were boisterous in theirconversation, and they were confident.
And I was like, I don't know what kindof drug they're giving them in the military, but I want that, you know?

(09:08):
And so that was kind of themotivation because I didn't have any prospects of going to college because I didn't have the grades.
I wasn't an athlete or anything,and my parents couldn't afford to send me to school.
So I needed to do something.
And that was, that was it seeing theexample of those folks that had come back.
From their recruit training or theirassignments that compelled me to want to be a part of the United States military.

Tom (09:34):
Didn't you say little birdie told me something about you, John, that there's like army muscle or gym muscle or something.
Isn't there a differencebetween the two muscles?

Oh yeah.

Tom (09:46):
I'm intrigued.
I know.
You gotta, you gotta finish the story.
Okay.
Prince

of Faith.
This must have beenHendricks talking to you.
Okay.

Tom (09:52):
Yeah.
We won't say his fullname, but Keith Hendricks.
Yeah.
He said that.
Social Security.
Started in early May.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Go

ahead.
I use this phrase all the time.
No muscle cars in the ranks.
And what I meant by that is when we talkabout the requisite fitness level to endure the brutality and unforgiveness of combat you're there's a physical
mental and emotional aspect to beingready, dare I say hard, to face those kinds of conditions in combat.

(10:24):
And too many times people that focuson lifting a lot of weights, gain a lot of weight, getting big muscles
and everything, that normally doesn'tpay off in the cardio department when you're hiking the Hindu Kush in
Afghanistan, or you're wearing 120,130 pounds of kit in 110 degree weather in the cities of Iraq and everything.
And so I used to say all thetime, no muscle cars, because normally a muscle car, it looks good for show it just for show.

(10:52):
Right.
Yeah.
It's got, you know, it's loud.
It's got this big engine and everything,but it's got a little gas tank.
And so we want people that yes, they havemuscular strength, muscular endurance.
But they have to have cardiovascularfitness to especially endure the, the terrain, weather, and the constant pace of combat operations.

(11:16):
So that's where I got that from.
So when guys were telling me,yeah, I can bench press 400 pounds.
I said, okay, sprint 200 meters,come back and let me see you bench press at 400 pounds.
Okay.
All right.
Cause that, that doesn't equate.
To combat effectiveness in terms ofspeed power and agility that is needed in a combat zone God bless people that want to go out there and be these big

(11:40):
muscle cars and everything and want tohave the big arms And everything but i'll take the guy that has A general level of fitness across those categories.
I just talked about Over a bigmuscle head any day of the week.

Tom (11:54):
So we were, we were, before this podcast, we were talking about Lou Ferrigno.
So, right.
The Incredible Hulk.
So that's for a muscle car type.
Yeah, that's a

muscle car.
Now Ferrigno, I mean, he's,he's a world class athlete, but.
He ran a lot on the show, as I recall.
I know he did run a lot, but he was green.
Yeah, I mean, when, when he was runningon that show, I mean, again, it's Hollywood, so he's probably running.
25, 30, 50 meters and then calling itquits played over and over the body.

(12:24):
But if you put that guy on a reactto combat drill or react to indirect fire drill in combat with 130 a
kid on where he has to constantlykeep moving at a rapid pace.
To get out of where the impact zoneof those rounds are, you're talking about a guy that could potentially

(12:44):
be a liability, especially if thatterrain is rough, uneven, and steep.
Yeah, he looks good.
He's a great athlete and everything.
But again, that's not, uh, whatwe want our troops looking like.
Or the kind of shape we want the men to beable to deal with the elements of combat.

Tom (13:03):
Great.

Jodi (13:04):
Yeah, definitely a required tape test kind of guy.
So you talked about why, whyyou joined and why you enlisted.
If somebody, if there's a young personthat's listening to this today, or a parent of a young person, what, what advice would you give them about Joining
the military, today's military, whichis different, of course, than when you enlisted so long ago, advice you'd give them about the decision to join and then

(13:26):
also if they are getting in with themindset that they're going to make a career of it just like you did and being
it for the long haul, what career advicewould you give them so they get off to a good right start and do all the things
as quickly and at a clip that they shouldto make sure that it's a successful career over, over two decades plus.

Skål!
That's a great question.
First of all, I would explain tothem, not only the potential recruit, but their, their family members,
their parents or who, siblings orwhoever, that this is a commitment.
And whether you are active guardor reserve, and whether you're just going to come in for four to six years or whatever it is, and you're only

(14:08):
coming in for the educational benefitsor things like that, or the, the VA benefits associated with being a veteran, understand that is a commitment.
For that enlistment that you brought in orthat commissioning that you came in for.
So for that five years, you haveto be totally dedicated to making yourself the best you, you can be.

(14:28):
That means what we've alreadykind of talked about physically, mentally, emotionally, technically, tactically, and educationally.
You have to make yourself the best thatyou can be and understand that you are going to be part of a high performing team that expects you to be at your best.
Every day and especially when it'sa situation like combat or in a deployment or something that they

(14:51):
expect you to be at your best all thetime, every time in what you're doing.
That means you have to come in with afocus on making yourself better and in turn you're going to make that team better
so that they are best prepared to facethe conditions that they could encounter on the worst day of their life in combat.
Now if someone is thinkingabout making it a career.

(15:12):
My advice is how do you grow and developand get better every day now you do that initially You know if someone's just gonna do one tour, but for the
long term you want to set goals foryourself And you want to dream big on what you want to do in the military?
And I will tell you every timeI wanted to do something to better myself Professionally and personally in the military.

(15:36):
All I had to do was this Raise my handand say, I want to go to airborne school.
I want to be a paratrooper inthe 82nd Airborne Division.
I want to go to ranger school.
I want to be a jump master.
I want to be a pathfinder.
I want to get a college degree.
All I had to do was raise myhand and make that commitment.
And then throughout your career, visualizeas you set these lofty attainable goals for yourself, visualize yourself doing the necessary steps to reach your goals.

(16:07):
And once you reach a goal, thenyou got to set another one that could be more lofty and everything.
I never thought that I would one daybe the SEAC and the senior guy in the entire US armed forces, but I wanted to be the best that I could be.
I wanted to grow and develop, and I wantedto get more responsibility as I grew.

(16:27):
And once you visualize yourself doingthe things necessary, all you have to do is go out and get it done.
Now, we all know in military service,you're going to face adversity.
You're going to serve around people thatyou really don't care for because you don't have the same kind of value system,
but you cannot allow anybody like thatto stop you from reaching your goals.

(16:50):
The only way that someone will notreach their goals in military service throughout a career is because they
quit on themselves or they allowother outside influences to prevent them from getting after that.
The bottom line is, when you make acareer out of the military, you can be all that you want to be, and all you have to do is make that commitment.

(17:11):
And say, I'm going togo do this and get after

Jodi (17:14):
kind of want to bottle that up and play that back.
It's great advice for somebodythat's about to join the military or considering it.
It's also just honestly greatlife advice for I have a young son in college and maybe play

Tom (17:28):
this back on repeat.
We say like in sports, act likeyou've been there before when you're in the end zone, but you got to act like you want to be there too.
And if you're not going to invest inyourself or invest in our country.
Or invest in the tasks or ahead of youor advancing your career, then don't go.
And it's a good advice because you'redoing a disservice to the country.

Yeah,

Tom (17:47):
it feels too bold to say that, but you do.
You want the best of the best outthere to to cover everyone's backs.

Well, and Tom, you know what we don't talk about, what doesn't get talked about a lot,
the more we don't do that at theindividual and collective level.
In the end, especially if it's largescale combat, we could be relinquishing competitive advantages to our enemy that we are expected to go and fight.
So we have to expect, when we serve inthe military, and especially In this expeditionary military that we're in

(18:18):
right now that everything we do everyday has an effect on what we can do on the worst day of our life in combat.
And the last thing we want to do isto kind of go through, through things half step or, or not fully commit that in the end, all of a sudden the enemy.
Has an advantage over us.

(18:39):
The American people expect every manor woman in the United States military to be at their best on their worst day.
And we who have served in the militaryare those that are serving now.
I have to understand that that's acommitment that they have to make to themselves, to their battle buddies, to the institution known as the United
States Army, but most importantly to ourcountry, the United States of America and the over 300 million citizens that we are expected to safeguard.

Tom (19:08):
We've got a lot of guests.
As you know, when I introducedyou today, we were episode 72.
And so we've had a lot of guests thatare veterans that are giving back.
in some form or another, whetherit's through consultative work or whether it's through different
organizations that are addressing needs,whether it's food insecurity, PTSD, mental health issues, you name it.
And I was going to be sarcastic andsay, you know, since John left the military, he's not doing anything.

(19:33):
Right, Jody?
He started, he's kind of lazy.
I think his schedule is

Jodi (19:37):
probably busier than ours.

Tom (19:38):
He's actually overbooking himself to go on travel.
I'm going to feel bad

Jodi (19:41):
next time I gripe about

Tom (19:43):
being busy.
But so.
It seems like there's thematically,there's a lot of people that give back once they retire post military, right?
That, but what, what are ways that,what gravitated you to do that?
Like, it was a no brainer foryou because it seemed like every day you're giving back.

Yeah, I think you never lose the desire to serve others.
When you, when you serve in an institutionlike the United States military.
where a core tenant is selfless serviceand you are focused on developing, assisting, and helping others.
I don't think you ever lose that.
And so when I retired, I said, I don'twant to be that SEAC again, or that command sergeant major and run around

(20:24):
and, and make Joe pick up cigarettebutts or, or jump on their butt.
Cause they don't have their head gear on.
I didn't want to be lost inmind because now I'm a retiree and I have zero authority.
But I, I, I focused, I, I builtkind of this vision and this focus I have is in three areas as a retiree.
One is to pay it forward to thecurrent men and women in the military, how can I help them?

(20:48):
And I do a lot of that by motivationalspeaking, unit visits, uh, but I also do it through my consulting efforts
with industry that assists the military,you know, with fitness equipment.
With nutrition and things like thatlethality like eyewear and everything making sure that our troops have the best

(21:10):
So that they can be best prepared But mysecond one is how do I give back to my fellow veterans and how do I help them?
So i'm the national ambassadorfor the veterans of foreign war.
I do a lot of speaking on behalf ofthe vfw I am as I mentioned before and i'm an ambassador for the u.
s.
Chamber of commerce's non profit hiringour heroes I sit on multiple boards And as a matter of fact, this weekend, I'll be in Nashville supporting the 107

(21:37):
Foundation, which is a foundation thatsupports veterans that are suffering from cancer or, or like diseases like that.
So and then last but not least, though,I wanted to make life comfortable for my wife, my kids, and prepare a future for my grandchildren.
So that's why I becamea small business owner.

(21:58):
That's why I've invested in otherbusinesses, but more importantly, why I'm working like I'm working
now so that my grandchildren canhave a future that me and my wife didn't have when we were growing up.
So those are kind of the threethings that I focus on and I focus on them in that order.
And that first and foremost is howdo I pay it forward to the men and women in uniform and help them?

(22:21):
I think we all know there are twotypes of retirees in the world.
There's enablers.
And they're agitators.
And the agitators say, Oh,the military's all jacked up.
When I was in, it was allgreat and all this stuff.
I didn't want to be one of those guys.
Will I be critical of theinstitution I served 38 years?
Yes, but it'll be in a professionalmanner and in a professional direction with the people can, that can fix things.

(22:46):
But it won't be on social mediaby complaining about anything that's going on with the military.
I wanted to be an enablerand how can I help?
And because of that focus, I am constantlybeing invited out to do motivational speaking, to do leadership seminars.
to just come out and visit the unitsand fire people up and everything.

(23:07):
And in the end, that's what Ienjoy the most is that right there.
And if I can help one service memberor one veteran every day for the rest of my life, then I will have a fruitful post military life.

Tom (23:20):
Uh, you think about your grandkids that may not appreciate what you're doing now, but when
they look, when going down the road,they'll say, yeah, he did that for me.
But I think, I think a servant leadership.
For the kind of the emblematic of whoyou are, when it means giving back to the community that you served and love.
So we're onto his book.

Jodi (23:42):
We are.
I will tell you, though, that as youtalked about the things that you didn't want to necessarily be in retirement,
well, you mentioned that the headcover and seeing that kind of stuff drives my husband nuts to this day.
If we're out on installation andhe sees somebody without it, or shoelace is not tucked in, right.
I mean, yeah, I like to get it,get under his skin a little bit.

Yeah.
That has been in this institution and hasbeen a focus of on the spot corrections and in discipline and everything.
But I, I told myself, Hey, look, I had38 years to get the military, right?
And if I didn't get it right, shame on me.
I've got confidence that thisgeneration of leaders is going to keep us as the number one military of choice for global peace and security.

(24:26):
Around the world.
So, yeah, I mean, I see a kid that'slooking kind of bad sack ish, you know, it can't pay attention, but I let it go now.
Yeah,

Jodi (24:35):
my husband will let it go, but he'll mutter under his breath as we walk to the car.

Tom (24:40):
I should have done.

Jodi (24:41):
That's for sure.
He'll give me the on the spotcorrection as if it was me.
So I do want to shift gears to your book.
You're the author of the book, Surrender,Die, Reflections of a Combat Leader.
And, you know, I have a lotof questions about it, but

Tom (24:53):
there's a plethora.
There's a plethora of questions.

Jodi (24:55):
Tom's favorite word.
This is gift right here.
Yes, yes.
Love it.

Tom (25:00):
We're going to change it to now a video.

Jodi (25:02):
We're going to have to.
Yeah.

Tom (25:04):
Or take a screenshot of that.
That's a cool cover.
Who designed

that?
Uh, this was a photo.
So my author coach thathelped me write my book.
Anne McIndoo, she said, Hey, we got toput a powerful photo on the front of it.
And this was me when I was thecommand sergeant major of all combat forces in Afghanistan, 2011 and 12.
And I had, I was out with one of ourNATO partners, the French Airborne Brigade, and we were scaling this huge mountain in, in Eastern Afghanistan.

(25:35):
And when I got to the top of the hill,there was a photographer up there who had been on part of the patrol in front of us.
And was taking a picture of me.
And so I just threw up the peace sign.
And, and as you can see, my mouth is open.
So I was sucking wind coming up thatmountain, but I wasn't a muscle car though, because I was ready to fight if I had to write that in there.

(25:55):
Like that was the picture that we,as you can see, you got the mountains of Afghanistan in the background.
You got a little bit of anAmerican flag back here.
And perfect, you know, and then it hasmy, my company, you know, the creator of my nonprofit is e tool nation and my company is PME hard consulting.
And then my former boss, chairman of thejoint chief staff, general Joe Dunford.

(26:16):
Wrote the foreword for my book.
So

Jodi (26:18):
yeah, that's amazing.
Love it.
Hey everyone, if you're looking for alittle extra financial flexibility to take the family on a vacation, tackle that home
renovation, or just get through the upsand downs of military life, we've got some great news for our military listeners.

Tom (26:36):
Absolutely.
Armed Forces Bank offers access loansthat are perfect for handling life's unexpected expenses, consolidating
debt, or even making that bigpurchase you've been thinking about.
And with our fast approval process,you can get the funds you need quickly and easily without all the hassle.

Jodi (26:52):
At Armed Forces Bank, about 75 percent of our team is affiliated with the military, so we understand your unique needs.
We've been supporting military familiesfor over 100 years and we're here to help you take control of your finances.

Tom (27:04):
Whether you're active duty, a veteran, or a reservist, we're committed to offering you
flexible terms and competitiverates, making sure you get a loan.

Jodi (27:14):
So if you're ready to take that next step, head over to AFBank.
com or visit a branch near you.
Armed Forces Bank,serving those who serve.

Tom (27:22):
Member FDIC, subject to credit approval.
Origination fee applies.
Direct deposit relationship required.
Loan terms are based on loan amount.

Jodi (27:31):
Bring us into that experience.
What, what caused you to say, I havehad such a journey, such experiences that I need to distill this to a book.
I need to share this.
I know as part of this, and I thinkthe company name bears this out.
Term that you coined PMEphysically, mentally, emotionally.
You've talked about why all of thoseaspects of readiness are important.

(27:51):
What what made you want to write thisbook and why was that important to you?

So I never thought that I would write a book, especially a memoir, you know, about my life.
But when you look at when I becamethe SEAC, you know, people, when I said, Hey, I did a combat jump
in 1989 in Panama City, Panama, aspart of Operation Just Cause, I'm a Desert Shield Desert Storm veteran.
And I'm nearing 38 years andalmost 20 years time in grade.

(28:18):
But the thing that kind of took itoff where people really wanted to know about me is when Secretary Mattis became the Secretary of Defense.
And when he came in after gettingsworn in, he brought myself and the service senior enlisted
leaders, the Sergeant Major of theArmy and the other service guys.
And he said, get the word out.
We are no longer going to talk about justdefeating any threat to the United States.

(28:41):
We're going to annihilate anythreat to the United States.
And that was a powerful messagecoming from the secretary of defense.
And when we sent that out to theforce, it, the troops loved it.
Because that's what they want to hearis that those of us in Washington, D.
C.
and the Pentagon, we understand thechallenges that were going on then in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia,

(29:05):
Libya, Yemen, all of these placesthat we had troops fighting, but also those holding the line in South Korea,
trying to maintain a ceasefire inColumbia and some of the other areas around the world that we had troops.
stationed at.
And so to compliment my big boss and, youknow, Joe Dunford, my, my immediate boss, the chairman was always talking about fighting and winning on any given day.

(29:31):
And so I happened to be on a trip toSyria where I was visiting our most elite army special operations forces
Raqqa, where our Syrian democraticforce partners with special operations support were about to just crush ISIS.
And while I was there, one of theoperators, Sergeant Majors for that unit, his name is George, he and I developed a pretty good relationship.

(29:58):
And we kept talking about theprofession and the development of non commissioned officers through combat
experience, meaning that we wanted todevelop them in such a way that they understood the law, law of land warfare.
They were professional in theiraspects, and they did let Losses in combat become personal because they knew they were professional soldiers.

(30:20):
And we talked about being ableto defeat any threat by any means necessary, even if that meant using
your entrenching tool to neutralizethe threat or, or kill the enemy.
And so I'm up on this building andevery time there was a lull in this fight, there would be the ISIS would
come out with a vehicle born improvisedexplosive device or a female suicide bomber or some asymmetric threat.

(30:45):
That would come out and causebig casualties on the Syrian Democratic Forces and wound some of our American advisors as well.
And so I was up there and, you know,you have to excuse my language on this.
And as I watched this, I said, youknow what, these have two options.
They can surrender or die.
And so the unit sergeant major, Rob ishis name or was his name at the time.

(31:09):
And he said, what do you mean by that?
I said, well, we're a peaceloving nation and we focus this with our partners and allies.
And if they surrender,we'll treat them humanely.
We'll safeguard them to adetainee holding facility.
So give them food, place tosleep, but most importantly, due process in a court of law.
But if they choose not to surrender,then let there be no doubt we're going to kill them with extreme prejudice, whether that's dropping bombs on them,

(31:35):
working through our partner forces toneutralize them, shooting them in the face if we have to, or beating them to death with our entrenching tools.
And so Rob told me, he said, Hey, youought to send that to Secretary Mattis and General Dunford in your update.
So I did.
And Mattis wrote back to me and said,I want you to keep saying that because that supports my narrative of we

(31:58):
are going to annihilate any threatto the United States of America.
And I started doing that as a meansof inspiring the troops and maybe intimidating the enemy a little bit.
If they were eavesdropping on some ofthe platforms I was talking on or, or whatever, and it was never an issue.
And until I was, uh, Christmas day of 2017on a USO tour, I was in Bagram Airfield.

(32:24):
We had the troops in there andwe had all these movie stars and performers that were going to do
a show for the troops and GeneralDunford and I always fired the troops up right away and I was up on stage.
And I had an entrenching tool in myhand and Medal of Honor recipient Flo Groberg was with me with a Medal of Honor, or with a entrenching tool.
And I said that same phrase, and afterit fired the troops up, blew the roof off the place and after I got done and

(32:52):
I walked off, there was a WashingtonPost reporter in the audience.
Who approached me and said,Hey, you just told the troops.
It was okay to go outand commit war crimes.
I said, I did nothing of the sort.
I said, we train soldiers, Marines,battlefield airmen, and special operators.
How do you use nonstandard weaponsto neutralize enemy threats?

(33:13):
And he said, well, I'm goingto go public with this.
And I, I said, well, knock yourself out.
But as I thought about it, I gotwith my public affairs guy back in Washington, DC, Rob Couture, who's a close friend of mine now.
And I said, Hey, this guy'sgoing to do an article.
What should we do?
And he said, Let's beat him to the punch.
So we did a quote of what I said.

(33:34):
They took a, I had gave him a pictureof me holding an entrenching tool and we did a social media post with this.
Basically it was a message to ISIS thatyou had two options, surrender or die.
And we did it to counter thisnegative narrative that the Washington Post was going to put in.
But what we didn't realizeit, that post that we did on Twitter and Facebook went viral.

(34:00):
And all of a sudden I was onthe news in places like Belgium, France, Japan, South Korea.
I was on the Fox five network.
They were doing a special about me,CNN, New York times, ABC, everybody.
All of a sudden you got this enlistedguy telling the enemy that we're going to kill him with shovels and everything.

(34:23):
What it did though is exactlywhat I hoped it would do.
Provide a purpose, motivation, direction.
And most importantly, inspirationto the troops all over the world.
Now, people in Washington, D.
C.
didn't like it.
Members of Congress were critical of me.
There were people in the Pentagonthat said this enlisted guy is talking out of turn and everything.

(34:44):
But anyways, this started down aroad where all of a sudden I ended up getting SEAC for multiple things.
It was this torturous kind of language.
I was being hostile and toxic,but there was other things.
There was.
An effort made by one to threepeople that they wanted me to go away because I was being too vocal.

(35:06):
And in their opinion, Iwasn't representing the force the way it should be.
None of them were in my chain of command.
Uh, you know, the chairman of SETDEFloved what I said, but I think you all know the power of the inspector general.
And I found myself suspendedfor six months, no less.
And after one day of feeling sorryfor myself, I said, you know what?

(35:27):
I'm going to fight this to the end becauseI delivered a motivational message.
And then whatever I've done that they'reinvestigating me for now, I've never had any ill will to do anything wrong.
Well, in the end, they found a coupleof things that I had been doing wrong.
You know, I was buying chow for my troops.
They were going to thestore there in the Pentagon.

(35:49):
I'd give them money to getfood for everybody else.
Yeah, I guess I was wrong doing that.
And the other thing was.
Implied endorsement of folksthat were supporting troops.
I was on a hike in Scotlandand with the chef Robert Irvine handed out these protein bars to everybody that was doing the hike.
And I was interviewed there andthey said, how are you doing?

(36:10):
I said, Hey, this guygave us a protein bar.
We're ready to get after this54 mile implied endorsement.
So anyways, in the bottom line, outof all the things that were, I was accused of the most heinous ones being.
Torturous language and hostile and toxic.
Everything was dismissed.
I got a counseling statement forthe other two and I got reinstated.
Throughout this whole process, because Ihad built relationships with the Pentagon Press Corps, I had built relationships.

(36:37):
with the State Department andthe White House and other things.
But most importantly, I built this lastingrelationship with the entire force.
People had to wait and see thing.
And in the end, when I got reinstated,the support was overwhelming.
And one of the most emotional messagesI got that really made me feel good was from a Marine captain, female captain that I had served with.

(37:02):
And she wrote on social media ona post that said I was reinstated.
She said in the post,relax, America, he's back.
So after all of that, after all of mycombat tours, after my 38 year career, after my time spent with one year
with the Obama administration, threeyears with the Trump administration, people said, you need to write a book.

(37:25):
And I never knew how to get after it andanything until I met a guy on an airplane.
Who was a published author and he,we exchanged business cards and he googled me and he saw my Wikipedia
page and everything and he said, haveyou ever thought about writing a book?
I said, I don't know how to get after it.
You know, I, people want me to.
So he put me in touch withAnn, this author coach.

(37:46):
And I told her, I said, look, I gotto get this done fast cause I'm busy.
And if I'm a procrastinator and I don'twant to say, Hey, I'm writing a book.
And all of a sudden, two yearslater, I'm still writing on it.
So, from concept to publishing,in 90 days, we got it.
In February of 23, we published it.

(38:06):
For a few weeks, I was number one onAmazon for military books, but then a couple of Medal of Honor guys wrote their books and I don't have a chance
against those guys, but the bottomline, this is a story of my life from when I was growing up in Davenport, Iowa to my full 38 year career, there's
leadership tidbits in here, I writea whole chapter about the suspension and how I had to deal with that, how I had to deal with my wife and I.

(38:33):
Kind of being ostracizedthrough the whole process.
I also talk about combat.
I talk about the after effectsof combat with post traumatic stress and things like that.
And I talk about PMEhard and e tool nation.
So to close that out, when I retired thee tool, you know, I have signed almost 7, 000 military shovels in the last year.

(38:57):
And.
The entrenching tool went from a utilitytool to be used for digging and things like that to now it's a symbol of
living a warrior ethos and everywhereI go, and it's not just the army or the Marine Corps, I was with the U.
S.
Space Force a couple weeks ago and Iwas signing entrenching tools there, I was with the Air Force two weeks ago signing entrenching tools there.

(39:21):
The bottom line is I wanted to write abook that people would remember and so that's why I titled it Surrender or Die.
Reflections of a Combat Leader.
Put a Put a Wow.
That's a pretty amazing

Tom (39:31):
story.

Jodi (39:32):
so

people that how it got to the book.
Yeah.
People

Tom (39:34):
can, can get to the book through Amazon and other sources, is that right?
Yeah,

they can.
Amazon online and Amazononline@barnesandnoble.com.
Okay, very good.
Think we to order off mywebsite, pme hard.com.
I'm glad you mentioned the website.

Tom (39:49):
Awesome.
John, I'm gonna take you.
the next part of this too, because,you know, we talked to a lot of our clients that want to be business
owners, like military spouses,veterans, they want to start a business.
You've, you've got each donation,you've got PM hard, you've got all this consulting stuff that you're doing, but
any best practices, any suggestions aspeople are in career transitioning that.

(40:12):
If they were to start abusiness, are there some things that you would give from it?
It's almost like he'sour advice guy, right?
Advice to young kidsgetting into the military.
What's the advice that you wouldgive to future business owners?

Do all of your research.
First of all, know what you want to do.
First and foremost, make sure that Youhave a background that supports that.
For four years as the SEAC, Iwas talking to troops every day.
I had thousands of sets and reps ofbeing in front of all kinds of audiences, from a squad of troops in Afghanistan to 12, 000 people in the Verizon Center.

(40:48):
And doing all kinds of things.
So I knew that, you know, and thenbeing a guy, a 20 year command sergeant major SEAC, I knew how
to advise CEO type people, meaningcommanding officers, general and flight officers, and things like that.
And I knew how to analyze organizationsto determine where strengths and weaknesses were and where opportunities and threats were to the business.

(41:12):
And so, first of all, do your research,know exactly what you want to do.
Make sure you have the capital to do the,to start up and get your business going.
That's where a lot of people, theydon't have the money up front to really start their business and get after that.
And, and then through, through itall, you have to understand who the competition is, and what are they doing in real time to be effective.

(41:40):
Because the minute you getstagnant in your business, the competition will pass you by.
And last but not least, and thisis that selfless service thing, As a business owner, I focus on these three things in this order.
First and foremost, anybody that worksfor me, whether it's one of my employees or it's someone that I contract to
do work for me, they get their dueand proper pay on time, every time.

(42:05):
I don't care how bad the business isdoing or whether we've got cashflow problems on time, every time I'm going to pay the people working for me.
I want them to knowthat they have security.
working for John Wayne Troxelland PME Hard Consulting.
Second of all, I pay all ofmy bills associated with my businesses on time, every time.

(42:26):
And number three, I pay myself when I can.
But those first twotake precedence always.
And if you're In the business andyou're, you're worried most in first and foremost about paying yourself,
you're probably not going to bein that business for very long.
I've consulted for businessesthat have been getting after their craft for five years and they still haven't been able to pay themselves.

(42:48):
But business is growing, they're gettingbetter and they're about to reach that apex where things are going to start
going downhill and they're going tostart seeing returns on their investment.
So that's what I would.
Say is make sure you do your research makesure that you have the startup capital to get it going Make sure you stay committed to what you're doing because you're

(43:09):
going to face adversity Make sure youpay attention to the competition and in the end keep up the fire at the direction You're going a lot of times especially
Enlisted people that get out and tryto be small business owners They end up defaulting or going bankrupt or whatever,
because not because they're getting burnedout, because they, but because they forget why they're doing what they're doing.

Tom (43:35):
Yeah.
You think about your, the three thingsyou just listed about, it just feels like you've got to have integrity.
You've got to, you've got to have agreat brand, a great reputation, a great image to get either repeat business or
have people talk about you and to pay,to pay vendors and to pay the team.
I mean, nothing else matters, right?
Because they can trust you.

Yeah, to give you an example, so I consulted for this, it's a billion dollar company
now, and we were looking to invest inFort Bliss, Texas at an establishment there at Freedom's Crossing.

Tom (44:06):
Which, which by the way, we have a branch inside of Freedom Crossing, you know that.
Oh, do you?
Okay.
Now you know that,

yeah.
So I went in there to find out about Thepotential and the doors were locked on this place and there was a sign on the door that said it was the Owners to the
proprietors the owners of the propertyto the proprietors that said you haven't paid your rent in three months And we have changed the locks on everything

(44:33):
and you're not going to be able to openyour business till you pay your rent And I thought to myself so here was this business talking to me about us coming
down and investing in this And I thoughtto myself at the time, had I immediately jumped on that instead of getting on a
plane flying to Fort Bliss to check thisout, I could have took us down the road where we were just paying the guy's bills.

(44:54):
And in the end, when I got down therenow, and I, I thought to myself, the proprietors of this place, what is their reputation going to be now?
When the place is closedbecause they couldn't pay their bills for whatever reason.
And now the owners of this propertycertainly are not going to give them a positive review on how they get in because they owe them over 30, 000.

(45:16):
You know, that's why number two is soimportant that you pay your people first.
You make sure you pay yourbills associated with a company on time, every time.
Cause the last thing you want iscreditors crawling all over you when you're trying to grow your business.
And in the end, Hey yourself when you can.
And sometimes like I have good monthsand, and I'm able to pay myself.

(45:38):
There's other times that I can'tpay myself for months because I'm too focused on growing the business.
And that's the discipline.
That's the motivation and the dedication.
To making your business work.
We're

Tom (45:51):
gonna, we're gonna bring this home, John and I know Keith Hendricks, who's our, one of our very own right banking center managers at Fort Carson.
We are fortunate enough to have youtoday to talk about all your skills, your experience, your leadership,
your brand ambassadorship, yourmotivational speaking, all that too.
But for the record, we've gotta have.
Thing you got to say about, yeah,we needed the dirt and it'll forever be in this podcast, right?

(46:17):
John.
So anything that's keepit clean though, please.
No, it's nothing, butwe love, we love him.
It's a great addition to our team.
Yeah.

I've got nothing but respect for Hendricks.
He's one of the guys like thousandsof others that I served with, that they were selfless in everything they did in their career.
Not just selfless, butfearless in going into battle.

Tom (46:41):
Yeah.

You know, people want to put a premium on who's a combat veteran and who's not, even if you've gone in to Iraq or Afghanistan.
I always talk about this, a willingacceptance of the risk of death.
By entering into a combat zone.
I don't care what you do in there.
You have accepted that potentially youwill get killed doing the duties for your country here and you do it with pride and you're going to get after that.

(47:09):
That's the kind of guy Hendricks was.
And he is, he was alwaysdriven to the point that I had lost contact with him after.
His military service and Iretired, but he reached out to me.
I was at Fort Carson and hewas running one of his rest.
He had a restaurant pizza

Tom (47:25):
shop.
Yeah.

And I went and visited it.
And he was the same way, thispizza shop that he was as a leader when he was working for me.
He was in charge, but hecared about his people.
He was focused onbuilding a cohesive team.
And he was focused on being successful.
So when I look at the United Statesof America, and especially to our veteran population, we will never have a hero crisis in this country

(47:52):
because the Keith Hendricks of theworld through their military service were always dedicated to get the job done and take care of their people.
And they'll do the same thing in postmilitary life with what he was doing with his pizza joints and certainly
what he's doing running one ofyour chapters of Armed Forces Bank.

Tom (48:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, we're going to have to editthat entire favorable comment.
We're going to have tomake up a Keith story.

He does have some scar tissue on his fourth point of contact from Troxel, okay?
So

Tom (48:21):
we'll save that.
Podcast number two.
Hey, but

you know, ash chewings are about love.
They're not about hate.
You love them so much, it's worththem to be the best that they can be and do the best job they can be.
So, you, you take the time out ofyour schedule to develop them and sometimes it's in a way that is short
on patience and calm voice, but inthe end, Hedrick's was, uh, one of the best that I ever served with.

(48:46):
I thought it makes sense.
I didn't know if

Jodi (48:48):
my husband was the only one that used that phrase and I guess not when you got teenagers, you, you do what you need to do, right?
Absolutely.
For sure.

Tom (48:56):
Let's play.

Jodi (48:57):
This has been a treat.
Thank you for being here, but we aregoing to ask you to stick with us for just a couple of more seconds.
We have, we think it'slovely and endearing.

Tom (49:06):
We'll let John be the judge of that.

Jodi (49:08):
We're not sure.
But we, we have a game we like toplay at the end of every podcast called the Military Minute.
A chance for our audience to wingift cards for themselves, gift cards that they are funds that they can donate to a charity of their choice.
And I want to reflect on last podcastepisode's military minute question.

(49:28):
Do

Tom (49:28):
you think he'll know the answer to this?
We

Jodi (49:29):
were talking to somebody that runs our recruit division.

Tom (49:32):
Yeah.

Jodi (49:32):
He might.
I mean, it'd be interesting to have thatnumber specifically committed to memory.
Plus or minus 3%.
Plus or minus 3%.
How many, it's about army recruiting.
How many people enlisted in the armyfor the first year after 9 11 happened?
He's going to get so much closer.
He's getting really

Tom (49:47):
close.
He's formulating.
9,

11 happened.
And shortly after that,I was on my way to Iraq.
I would say.
Uh, with the size of our military,then I would say 45, 000.
I know, I'm wondering if you'vegot the wrong number, McClain.
No,

Tom (50:03):
no, he's wrong.
So, plus, plus.
He's probably wrong.
It was plus or minus 300%.
Yeah,

Jodi (50:11):
so I'm going to fact check McClain, but the number he has is 181, 510.
Which is a very large number.
Yeah, we, and we're notmeaning to put you on the spot.
Yeah.
That's, yeah.
Like, you know, and there was sucha time, too, of people wanting to join in, wanting to do some things.
Like that day.
You know, that

makes sense, because the Army has a phrase, we recruit the Marine Corps every year.
And the Marine Corps numbers areusually between for active is between 180, 000 to just over 200, 000.
So

Jodi (50:41):
there you go.
That makes

sense.
Yep.
All right.
In fact, check in.
So if you are in

Jodi (50:45):
our audience and after the last podcast, you guessed 181, 510,

Tom (50:50):
exactly.

Jodi (50:50):
Remarkably.
Exactly.
Watch for your name to drop andyou could be the recipient of 50 gift card for yourself and 50 for a charity of your choice.
And this week's military minute.
If you listen to this podcast andyou don't know the answer, then you need to get your ears checked.
We have said,

Tom (51:07):
said, or go back to listen to it again.
Or Google.
John Wing Tropical.
Yes,

Jodi (51:09):
we've said it repeatedly.
And you can't answer this one.
'cause of course you'regonna know the answer.
What is the name of John's book?
We'll give it.
Give him an easy one.

Tom (51:16):
This.
This is our way, John, ofgetting people to go find out.
Make sure they get the right answer.
That means they're lookingat the book somewhere.
Go

Jodi (51:23):
find the book

Tom (51:24):
and go.
Go.

Jodi (51:24):
Answered.
Enter the name.
Full answer, right.
Yes.
It

can't just be half of the title.
It has to be the

Jodi (51:29):
full title.

Tom (51:31):
We

Jodi (51:31):
agree.

Tom (51:31):
So, and where the picture was taken at what time, what exact day and who the photographer is named.
That might

Jodi (51:37):
be overcomplicating it, Tom.
So give us the name of the book, thefull name of the book, and when this podcast drops and then you two could
be entered to win 50 for yourself,50 show charity of your choice.
You can find, if you're going toGoogle that answer, if you didn't pay attention in the podcast.
Amazon, Barnes and Noble.
com and buy a copy whileyou're there, of course.
So thank you, John, forspending time with us today.
It's been a real treat.

(51:58):
I've enjoyed hearing your story and yourjourney, and I'm excited to read the book.

Tom (52:02):
And John, I know you enjoyed today's episode.
All of us did.
So go out to AFBank.
com and subscribe to the show.
militarily speaking.
Also, make sure to rate us, leave us acomment on your favorite podcast platform.
And those platforms, John or Applepodcasts, Spotify, and YouTube.
So looking forward to sharing the greatstories and the great information from your perspective in a few weeks down

(52:27):
the road, but people are really goingto enjoy listening to your message.
So thank you.
Absolutely.

Uh, thanks Tom.
Thanks Jody.
And God bless America.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thanks, sir.
Bye bye.
Bye.

Tom (52:42):
Copyright.
Armed forces bank memberFDIC equal housing lender.
All non armed forces bank owned apps,websites, company names, and product names are trademarks or registered trademarks of their respective owners.
They're mentioned does not implyany affiliation with or endorsement by armed forces bank of them or their products and services.
They are merely used as examples ofthe many available apps, companies, and websites that offer similar services
before using any app or website, youshould carefully review the terms of use data collection and privacy policy.
Apps may have an initial cost orin application purchase features.

(53:03):
This information is general innature and is not intended to be legal, tax, or financial advice.
Although Armed Forces Bank believesthis information to be accurate, it cannot ensure that it could change.
Statements or opinions ofindividuals referenced herein are their own, not Armed Forces Bank.
Consult an appropriate professionalconcerning your specific situation and respective governing bodies for applicable laws, such as IRS.
gov for current tax law, Armed ForcesBank, the Armed Forces Bank logo, and the militarily speaking logo are registered trademarks of Armed Forces Bank.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

The Joe Rogan Experience

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}How to Turn Military Discipline into Business Success: John Wayne Troxell’s Guide

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}On Purpose with Jay Shetty

The Joe Rogan Experience

Stuff You Should Know

All Episodes

How to Turn Military Discipline into Business Success: John Wayne Troxell’s Guide

On Purpose with Jay Shetty