January 30, 2025 • 33 mins
Have you ever wondered which religion is the happiest? Luckily, there is a study on that! On this episode Eddie and Justin share their religious backgrounds, discuss the basics of major world religions, and dive into a paper that looks at which religions are the happiest.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is Millennial Mental Health Channel. I'm doctor Justin Romano,
a Child and Adolescent psychiatry fellow.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
And I'm Medikoreo, a licensed clinical therapist. Our podcast is
here because we wanted to start a much need to
conversation about mental health.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Our goal is to teach you as much as we
can by sharing our own experiences and interviewing experts in
the mental health field. We will discuss topics like mood disorders,
psychotic disorders, substance use, personality disorders, and many more.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Millennial Mental Health Channel buy Millennials for everyone. We hope
you enjoyed today's episode.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
MMHC is a production of Speaker from iHeartMedia. I heartma
oh La bienvenidos. It's been a while since I've used
my Mexican announcer voice, but welcome back to MMHC. We
are excited you're here. We're excited to be here. We
are going to be talking about a very cool topic
(00:53):
today of religion, something that's been on our minds a
little bit more recently. So let's start off with like
a little bit about yourself. Tell me about your religious background,
what did you grow up with?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
More importantly, your announcer voice. You know what I did.
I learned this semi recently when Argentina won the World Cup.
One of the announcers whenever I would watch like Mexican
League soccer, I found out was Argentinian and I had
no idea. So Argentina won and he had like this
great like call when they won the World Cup. And
(01:27):
so anyway, okay, back to the show. Religious background. I've
been thinking about this for a couple of reasons. One
with the episode topic, I've been thinking about it, and
then the second is I'm currently teaching like cultural Foundations
class the first year master students, and our next week's
topic is actually about religion and spirituality. So this kind
of works out well. So I've been thinking about my
(01:48):
own background. I was raised Catholic, did most of the
things right, Like I was baptized, have my first communion.
We would go to church sometimes, definitely more often, like
when I was in Sunday School for my first communion,
and then just got the back a little bit, life
got a little busy. I was never I never had
my confirmation, which is like the next thing after communion.
(02:11):
But yeah, I mean that's just kind of how I
grew up. I know, for me, I don't know. I
feel like I was one of those teenagers like, ah,
we got to go to church. Now I got a
job and sports and stuff. It kind of got on
the way. But when I got to college, or while
I was in college was like the last couple of years,
I actually started going back to church with a few
friends of mine, and that was like kind of an
important part of our weekly routine, like going weekly, I
(02:33):
will say, and I will say this openly. When it
was the time of the year where we'd go out,
like to parties and stuff, we'd go to the Saturday
night Mass so that we wouldn't have to worry about
waking up earlier for the Sunday morning Mass, which is
its own thing. But yeah, it was something that I
grew up with, kind of didn't like put a whole
lot of effort in too as I got older, but
(02:54):
then once I became like a young adult, went back
into it. But honestly, I think one of the things
that shifted for me kind of like going back to
where I was of just not going to church as
often or being super involved was moving when I graduated
from school and everybody, you know, all of our our
friends and Dana, your wife, like moved and for rotations
and stuff, and Canvy moved, like I moved on my
(03:16):
own with some friends in a different city and then
I just wasn't close to a church there, and that
probably just kind of started the cascading of just like
not being super involved anymore. So that is my religious
background in a minute and a half.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Do you have any labels or titles for your current
religious status?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Some curious? No, hmmm, I think I'm still Catholic. I
just maybe just not practicing.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Is that the little Catholic curious?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
That's fair Catholic light. I don't know. I still pray
here and there, and yeah, we'll go to church on
like Christmas time. Sometimes we're CEOs Christmas in Easter only
for a bit. But yeah, yeah, it's definitely, yeah, let's
do let's do like Catholic light. I think that's it's
(04:05):
just not as maybe embedded in my daily life as
it used to be.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Thank you for sharing, because I feel like it's important
for people to be able to talk about this stuff
in an open and friendly way, because it seems like,
unfortunately religion is such a point of contention for so
many people in a way to divide people, but it
can be a really good way to bring people together.
So that's one of the reasons why we wanted to
have this topic today. And for me, I grew up
(04:30):
in a very Christian household. My dad was an elder
in the church. We grew up in northern California initially
before moving to Wyoming when I was eleven, spent some
time in the Baptist Church. I was always a very
much a people pleaser growing up, so I was all
about church because it was Plus I was always really
good at memorizing things, so I was praised in church
(04:53):
all the time because I could memorize versus like nobody's business,
and like I was the kid in Nawanas who was
like going fast and getting like earning his Did you
ever do auanas or anything? It was like a church club.
The you like got like badges and stuff for memorizing
a bunch of verses and completing a bunch of work.
And so loved that stuff. But then, yeah, we moved
(05:14):
to Wyoming and didn't ever really find another church that
we liked as much as our church back home in California,
And I tried a couple of different ones, and I
just felt like all the churches I tried were so cliquy.
People didn't hardly even talk to me as like the
new guy there. It just felt like I was the outsider,
didn't feel welcome. Started to kind of question the religion thing.
(05:34):
Around high school, even I had a teacher who got
me kind of back into religion and said, like, you
can believe in science and religion at the same time.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
But then in.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
College started to learn more about science and the history
of religion itself, and towards the end of college, I
kind of realized that I just don't believe that there
is a god in this world. I don't see any
existence or evidence of a god in this world. And
so for probably about the last ten or so years,
(06:05):
I have been an outspoken atheist. But I always like
to say, like most atheists are kind of douchebags and
always spends so much time trying to convince you why
everyone else's religion is wrong and why they're right. But
my personal belief is that I think religion can be
a great thing, and I think it's a wonderful thing
(06:25):
for a lot of people, and I think you should
be able to believe whatever the hell you want to believe,
so personally atheist, but also just want other people to
do what makes them happy and what they enjoy too.
So that's a little bit about my journey and how
I ended up here.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
It's too bad a lot of other people don't have
that same thought of like, it's okay for you to
believe in whatever you believe in, and it doesn't have
an impact on me.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Such a novel concept, that's what.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
It seems like right now.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah, it's always this, Oh I got to prove I'm
right everyone's wrong. And you know, even in the church
growing up, there was an air of well, we're the
right ones, we are the ones who have it all
figured out, and everyone else is going to hell. And
once I kind of learned about even just the world
population and how there's about seven billion people and there's
(07:16):
a little bit less than two billion Christians, I was like, so,
according to your religion, God's just gonna damn eighty percent
of the earth to hell. Like that didn't make any
sense to me if God is truly a loving god
like they claim. So yeah, a lot of different things
along the way made me think like this just doesn't
make sense to me.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
I think one of the things with religion that I've
thought about, you know, for the episode and just for class,
is how much it can be in a very important
part of someone's life, like their identity and like thing
just things that are important to them. I think when
you look at something like religion and even like spirituality,
it's it's one of those things that can help and
still hope into people. It can help them work through
(07:54):
or process difficult times and moments in their life, could
really just kind of be a guiding force for them
things are going well, when things are not going well.
And I think that's one of the things that I've
I've tried to talk with students when I do like
teach my classes of like, yes, racial identity, socioeconomic status,
all these things are really important, but I also want
(08:15):
you to consider religion and spirituality in someone's life, like
that's also equally important. Like I almost feel like sometimes
that gets missed. I look back to my intake forms
when I used to do new client assessments. It felt
like everything else was a pretty big box, but religion
and spirituality was like kind of a little one that
you could, yeah, you could miss if you weren't paying
attention to it. So even even the absence of religion
(08:38):
and spirituality is important to know right when getting to
work with a new client and working with new.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
People totally, if your goal is to get some get
to know someone better, you should know about what their
religious preferences are. And especially as mental health providers, you
and I, it's so important to know that about people,
just to have a basic understanding and know about the
social support because in many cases religion is like the
number one way people get connected, people get their social support.
(09:07):
And one of the reasons why I really wanted to
focus on this topic for today is that overall, I'm
a pretty happy person. But I had the thought of,
like if I was religious, Like if I believed in
heaven and the afterlife, Like if I believe there was
really a God pulling all the strings making sure that
life is going to be okay, Like would I be happier,
would I be more at peace? Maybe it's worth considering
(09:31):
and thinking about, and so things that I wanted to
bring up and discuss today.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
A lot of the numbers that we're going to use
kind of for the beginning YEA, for the first part
of the show is a research study by I was
trying to make sure I pronounce this correctly. I think
it's mob fuck, I sucked it up?
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Is that what it? And is probably silent and I'm
probably we got to cut out.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Just so bad, so bad. I'm so embarrassed. Ah if
it's an a silent and then it's Gamma Gomaba, yes,
Gamaba and Sony or Sonny. I don't know. God, I'm
so bad. Please cut this out, bro, just you read it.
(10:21):
Let's go here we go.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Is it bad that I like intentionally leave in tough names.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I know there's no disrespect to anybody that is more
cultural than me.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
I just oh, Gamaba and Sony. In twenty seventeen, This
is a paper funded by the National Institute of Health.
They looked at subjective well being results with religion, which
is interesting in and of itself has probably been not
the strongest data in the world, but how people perceive
that their own happinesses, which I think is still useful
(10:56):
information to use. The scale of one point four or
one to two for being the most happy, and at
the top of the list coming in at a whopping
score of three point twenty one were Protestants.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
It's been a religion that's been around since fifteen seventeen,
when Martin Luther split from the Catholic Church over disagreements
on indulgences. What is indulgences? What did they mean by that?
Speaker 1 (11:18):
An indulgence was a way for Catholics to buy their
way out of hell. So they would do something bad,
they would need to atone for their sins, and they
could just pay for it. So they'd be like, Oh,
I've got the money. I can do whatever I want
because I'm going to pay my way out of hell
if the church is happy with me. And Martin Luther
was like, I really don't like that we're doing this
as a religion as Catholicism, So he made his own
(11:41):
separation from the Catholic Church.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Well, this was called the Protestant Reformation. I remember that name.
I don't remember what happened, but I remember that name.
Luther wanted to focus on a personal relationship with Jesus
as the main way to get to heaven. It is
currently estimated that about zero point six to one point
one billion people are Protestant I believe in the world,
(12:04):
and that it accounts for twenty four to forty percent
of Christians as a whole. Protestants like that term also
include subgroups like lds SO Church of the Latter day
Saints or Mormons, and Jehovah's Witnesses. And one interesting stat
is that Africa is the continent that holds the most Protestants,
so forty one percent of the world's Protestants are in Africa.
(12:25):
And then for the United States, about forty percent of
Americans identify as Protestants, which is actually down from over
fifty percent in two thousand and nine according to the
Pew Research Center. One interesting thing about that, and one
of the things I'm trying to add into my lecture
for this week with religion, is how much of it
there is a decline, Like there really has been a
very sharp decline and people identifying as religious, as identifying
(12:48):
with a certain religion, and identifying as like religion being
important to them. I can't remember the exact numbers because
it's still a newer article that I was reading for
my class, but it's a pretty big decrease. And then
the other piece is one of the interesting stats from
the article was that while let's say like there was
a drop and don't quote me on this, but let's
(13:09):
just say there was like a drop in fifteen to
twenty percent of people, they're that much less are religious.
Instead of going to a different religion, people are basically
leaving the church to then be atheist or agnostic. So
they're just leaving a religion for no religion.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
And I'm fascinated as to why people are turning away
from Christianity from Protestantism so much, and boy, that could
be the topic of a three hour long podcast. But
I think just the Internet in andet of itself has
given people an outlet because in the past, if you
grew up an environment where everyone was Christian and that
(13:47):
was all you were exposed to, all you knew, that
was what you kind of had to believe in. But
now that there's the Internet and unlimited knowledge at your
fingertips about any and all religion, I think the Internet
in and of itself is a big factor as to
why people are less religious.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
I think to one of the piece is not just
like the information part, but just seeing people's real life experiences.
So like, if you grow up in a certain community,
maybe it with like a pretty small community, you just
don't know. You only know what you know, right so
if you grow up being taught certain things and then
maybe you leave for college or whatever it is. But
so I guess what I'm trying to say is, like
(14:25):
I feel like I hear a lot of like, oh,
I left for college and I met new people, and
that really changed my perceptions. But now maybe that's that
part is happening. It's still happening. But the other part
that's increased is that, oh, I started watching these videos
on how certain people were being treated based off of
like who they were by certain religious and I guess
this is like a pretty specific example with what's going
on currently in the world, I guess the United States,
(14:48):
but like people just having more information and seeing more
people's experiences where how they were treated by certain people
or by certain religious groups. I think that's unfortunately kind
of where we're at with you kind of mentioned it.
But like people feeling like my religion is the best
or my ideas are the best. It's the only one,
and if you don't follow these rules, even if I
don't know you, you're a shitty person. I'm going to
(15:10):
start the second religion one because I see a name
in there that I know I can pronounce and I'm
going to redeem myself. Going back to the study, the
second happiest religion with the score of three point one
seven is Buddhism. And I think Buddhism has been something
that has popped up more like in my professional life
and just personal life. Like when we went to Japan,
like we went to cool like Buddhist temples. We saw
(15:32):
the I believe the city was called Kamakuda, and there's
a big Buddha. We got to go inside of it
like that. That was pretty cool, right, And I think
one of the things that blew my mind in Japan
and just like other countries, is like how much older
things are there, Like there's they have like what feels
like actual history, whereas the United States, like it's like
two hundred years old like whatever, Like there's people who
(15:55):
are half that age and they're still alive. So anyway,
real history in other places. But Buddhism has been around
since the fifth century BCE or the before Common Era,
so about twenty five hundred years ago. I will also
add with Buddhism, the professional part of my life, uh
DVT has a lot of Buddhist principles in it. Uh
doctor did Am I now, I don't think I'm making
(16:18):
that up. I'm pretty sure. Look it up, look it up.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
It makes sense.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think Doctor Marshall Lenehan has been
pretty open about like having Eastern influences in DBT and
having something that come from Buddhism. Are you looking up
right now? I see?
Speaker 1 (16:32):
And according to Google's AI, DVT is a psychotherapy that
incorporates principles of Zen Buddhism.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Let's go, I know some shit anyway, So Buddhism was
started by the prophet Siddhartha Gautama, so he would later
be called Buddha or like the like as most people know,
he'd be referenced to Buddha. Very basically put, he believed
that life is suffering and that suffering comes from craving,
(17:03):
and that suffering ends when we conquer our cravings. So
if we end craving, we end suffering. They also had
five precepts that they live by, so it's like no killing,
no stealing, no sexual misconduct, no engaging a false speech,
and no indulging in intoxicans.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Third on the list is Roman Catholicism. They believe in
the Bible that is their main religious document. They believe
that they will be united with God in the afterlife
in heaven, very similar to Protestantism because they split off
from each other. Remember around fifteen hundred. You always hear
about Catholicism from comedians, like comedians who grew up Catholic,
(17:41):
and they always talk about the shame and guilt, And
so for me, I was thinking, like, well, there's no
way that these people are so happy if they're just
carrying around a bunch of shame and guilt all the time.
But they were number three on the list in terms
of subjective happiness. Some famous Catholics include the Pope. I
would say he's a pretty famous Cathleen. Every one of them,
(18:02):
every single one. Is it a coincidence?
Speaker 2 (18:05):
I think, Oh, I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
JFK, Stephen Colbert, Nicole Kidman. And then you had a
good example for me too.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Right, former President Joe Biden. O sleepy Joe, Oh, thanks
for doing your best, Joe. Number four on the list
is Judaism. So some of their beliefs include believing that
there's one true God who is eternal. They believe that
they have this special covenant with God. They believe the
Messiah has not yet appeared on Earth, and they tend
(18:36):
to have a strong community. So people who are Jewish
make up about zero point two percent of the world population,
so it's about fourteen million of them in total. They
make up about two point four percent of the US population.
And one of the central concepts of Judaism is joy
and they have a word for it, which is simchaw.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
There's only fourteen million Jewish people in the world, and
the cost killed six million Jews total, so that was
a huge chunk of their population in total. You know,
I have a friend who is Indian and our shared
friend Kush, and he watched so much Seinfeld growing up
that he's pretty much more Jewish than he is Hindu
(19:18):
at this point.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
It's like.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
He knows like so many like Jewish words, and so
I think it's funny, like how many Yiddish words, which
is their name for their language that they use, like
so simcha. I've heard, you know, people talk about kismet
and schmilkis and all these funny words that make their
way into United States culture.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
And there's different like like sectors of Judaism, riter is
there different Like yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
They're little, You're absolutely right. Looks like there's Orthodox Reform,
Conservative Reconstructionist, Hasidic, Messianic, Karates, rabbinical farieses, seduce Sees, Issennis,
and Zelots.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
That's way more than a thought I thought there'd be
like three. Okay, Okay, that was more than I thought too.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, I'm glad we learned something today.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I mean, it is interesting how much like there's differences
like in even within religion. Like I almost think of,
like there's got to be some written out there about
like the differences with like Roman Catholic versus like Mexican Catholic. Right,
there's definitely differences with like I don't want to like
misspeak and like not do a good job of my
(20:33):
own like Mexican Catholic religion. But like there's definitely differences
in terms of like cultural celebrations and things like that.
So it is interesting to see how much like there's
like the base religion and then how much those things
there's different interpretations and things like that based off of
like the cultures that practice those those religions.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Protestantism, with Christianity as a broad blanket term, there is
just so many different types and one Christian will probably
have completely different beliefs from the next Christian. It is
so entwined with your culture. And yeah, you're absolutely right.
There are a lot of differences. And I was thinking,
maybe the big differences between Mexican Catholic is just those candles,
(21:12):
those little Jesus candles, Right.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah, we definitely have those miles of but there's also
like the there's just like also different stories too, and
like I think of like like like my I had
two cousins. I had King Signet's last year, and there
was like a church service for that, and like other
Catholics don't do that, right because Kensnetta is like a
Mexican thing. So yeah, it's it's just it's definitely interesting
(21:34):
how pieces of the religion change based off of the
culture that practices them.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Number five Hindus. This is a five thousand year old
religion that started in the Indus Valley. Hinduism is often
called a way of life or family of religion because
it embraces multiple different religious ideas. It doesn't have like
a strict outline of what it is should be like
(22:00):
a lot of other religions do. They view everything in
the universe as God. Hindus believe that each person is
intrinsically divine, and the purpose of life is to seek
and realize the divinity within all of us. And I
think that's really beautiful.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Hindu belief is totally non exclusive and accepts all other
faiths and religious paths. Maybe some people should try that.
Hindus make up about fifteen percent of the world population,
however only about one percent of the US population. Is
it practice is Hindu?
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Verse six the religion of Islam or Muslims. They believe
that there is no God other than Allah. There is
one true God. The prophet Muhammad was the messenger of God.
These people tend to pray five times per day as
a big part of their religion. They also fast during
the month of Ramadan to renew their awareness and gratitude
(22:58):
for everything God has provided, and their sacred text is
the Qoran.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Seventh on the list is non religious people, and then
the unhappiest religious groups are or the docs or the
docs meaning like the more I guess hardcore religious people,
so eighth on the list when ranking religions from happiest
to unhappiest.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Honestly, when I talk to young people, they seem to
have very poor religious literacy, like I'll even ask people
like are you religious? And a lot of kids will
straight up look at me, My teenagers that I that
I work with, They'll look at me and say, what
does that mean? Like what is that? What is religious?
Like they don't even know the basics of terminology for
(23:45):
religion and spirituality because I used to say, like, are
you spiritual? And people also didn't know what that was,
So I switched to religion and people still don't know
what that was. So one question I like to talk
about or ask and then also teach about, is can
someone be spiritual without being religious?
Speaker 2 (24:05):
I mean, what would classify as being spiritual? Like in
things like this is gonna make me sound kind of ignorant,
but I'm just doing my best. Like things like karma
and manifestation and like maybe like inner belief and mindfulness
and inner peace, those feel like spiritual concepts, and I
feel like not all of those need to be tied
(24:28):
to a religion. I think, even like things like with meditation,
like that they don't always need to be religious practices,
but people will incorporate those in their kind of daily life,
So I think so, And I think that's I think
that's why you ask the question of are you religious
or do you have any like spiritual practices, because they
can be different, they can be similar, and there can
(24:49):
be some overlap, but I think they're Yeah, you could
probably do be spiritual without the other. What do you think?
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Yeah, I would agree, And I think you gave some
really good examples too, And I would say I'm probably
an example of spiritual but not religious. Like I like
some of the spiritual concepts of religion. I like being
connected with other humans. I like helping other people. I
want to live in a world where we help each
(25:15):
other instead of tear people down. But I don't ascribe
to any particular religion in this world. But I think
it's important to have that spiritual connection to the earth,
to other human beings, because it can make life better
if you feel connected to this world around us.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah, well you talked about earlier, how not you're not
necessarily or you're not a religious person anymore. But if
we look at our list, that means you're the seventh
unhappiest person I know. So, just like off the top
of your head, why do you think religious people at
least according to that study, which we've already said, Like
isn't the greatest in terms of like collection of data.
(25:54):
But why do you think religious people are happier? Can
be happier?
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Probably the biggestart of the community. You talk to people
who are religious, who are still actively religious, involved in
their church, they just have a built in network. They
know so many people. There's so much support, there's financial support,
there's spiritual support, there's so many different things that they
can fall back on. And our world is becoming more
and more and more individualistic, especially with phones and social media.
(26:25):
People aren't going out and meeting face to face as
much as they were in the past. They're sitting in
their house, and loneliness is at an all time high.
We're starting to really hit epidemic pandemic levels of loneliness
in this world. And spirituality and religion gives you a
way to connect with other people, which is good for us.
It's healthy for us. Plus, you know, we talked about
(26:47):
it a little bit earlier, just having that idea that
there is someone out there pulling the strings making sure
you're going to be okay. So a divine being, a
god watching over everything is a comforting idea. I remember
the first time I thought because growing up christian I
always thought like, when I die, I'm going to heaven.
(27:08):
But then when I started to question this stuff, I
was like, WHOA, if I die, what if there is nothing?
What if my brain stops firing and there is nothing
but eternal darkness and just nothing forever once I'm dead?
And that scared the shit out of me. At first,
I was like, whoa, this is an awful feeling of
(27:29):
feeling like there's there's going to be an endpoint and
absolutely nothing after that. So it is comforting to have
the religion to have some of these ideas. And Christianity
really got popular during the Dark Ages, you know, around
you know, five hundred AD, because the earth sucked. Then
it was after the fall of the Roman Empire. The
(27:51):
Romans kind of kept everything together, but once they fell,
it was lawlessness and disorder. They were burning libraries, We
went backwards in terms of technology. There were marauders and
raiders running around everywhere. It was a tough time to live,
and that's when Christianity took off. Life was so bad
here on Earth. They said there's got to be something
(28:12):
better after this, and so that's when people are like, hey,
there's this religion that's been kind of on the low
levels of things for a while for the past hundred years.
This might make people feel better in the moment.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Something like religion can give people answers. Yeah, I think
we get really anxious when we don't have answers, and
for some people being able to get the answer through
something like religion is really helpful and really call me
and can internally to like feeling happier. I also agree
with you with like the sense of community and the
sense of like having those people you know, I know
(28:44):
people who every week we go to our church group,
we hang out with our church friends, like that kind
of thing. At the school that I work at, there's
a pretty big Mormon population, and like meeting with those students,
are checking in with them, and them telling me about
their daily routine of going to seminary or going to
church on the weekend, and like that being embedded in
(29:04):
their life. Feeling happiness from that, feeling like support through
the community that they have is I think something that's
really helpful. Now, obviously I mentioned earlier, you know religion
is on the decline. Something to think about is just
how much like you start to have your own thoughts
and ideas as you get older, and sometimes that religion
or that community that you relied on maybe isn't really
(29:27):
there for you anymore because you're starting to have those
those differences of thoughts and opinion. So I don't know
something to think about, and I.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Appreciate your insights and what's going through your head too.
It was one of the things I wanted to bring
up to. One thing that I find fascinating is just
the interplay in mental health and religion in a couple
of different ways.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Like I've come.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Across some people in my life who they'll come to
me and they'll ask for mental health advice, and then
after talking with me and I'll say, you know, go
to a therapist, you know, talk to your doctor about
maybe starting medicine if it's really bad, and then you know,
I'll give advice. And then I've even had people say,
now I think they just need to they need God,
they need God to fix it for them. And I'm like, like,
(30:09):
that's that's okay to rely on your religion and fall
back on it, But I also think it's important to
try some other things too, try some evidence based things
that can be helpful with those types of things. It
can be a both. It doesn't have to be in
either or. Plus, I remember learning in residency that a
lot of times religious delusions are more common in bipolar disorder.
(30:33):
I was fascinated by this, and I met a couple
people on the impatient units who were really manic, so
bipolar disorder, supermanic. They're not sleeping, They've got a ton
of energy. And I was doing some reading on it,
and I think it's because that people who are manic,
you know, they feel great. They've got that euphoria, they've
(30:53):
got that grandiosity. They think they're amazing. And a lot
of people will use their religious beliefs to justify the
way they feel. So they'll say, I am amazing, I
am so wonderful. I can read a book without even
opening the pages. I can just touch it and absorb
all the words I've had. Actually, people tell me that
before too, and I think they'll say, like, well, if
(31:15):
I'm this amazing, I must be Jesus, Like I must
be some religious figure. I am the Second Coming. So
I think oftentimes in schizophrenia, in bipolar disorder, sometimes people's
religion shapes the disease itself, and that is something I
find incredibly fascinating.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Yeah, I forget. I feel like I had a patient
one time telling me like, man, I just I woke
up this morning feeling so ready. I felt like I
could wrestle God. And I was like, oh, okay, let's
let me call this like real quick.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
God is a black belt in jiu jitsu.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
So I don't know if I would be interesting thing.
Even if the numbers are declining in the US, it's
still something that's around and I feel if anything, some
people maybe even taken the opportunity to get more strengthened,
to strengthen their relationship with their religion, to really get
embedded in their religion and the beliefs. And even if
(32:16):
there is a decline, I sometimes I feel like in
some cases there's examples of people becoming more with their
religion even while it's declining around them. So interesting stuff
to think about.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
A lot of people in the United States don't ever
take any time to learn about other religions. Yeah, and
I think it's important to know on a human standpoint,
on a spiritual standpoint, on a political standpoint, it's important
to understand what drives people, what motivates people, where people
are coming from, and the culture associated with their religion too.
(32:50):
So one of the reasons why we wanted to talk
about this is to try and you know, make the
world a better place, like we're always trying to do,
to teach you a little bit about these religions and
show that I love that you weren't afraid to be
a little bit vulnerable and say like, I don't know
about this, like let's look it up, because that's the
mindset that we should be having, Like we don't have
to have all the answers. As long as we're opening
(33:11):
ourselves up to learning about other people, then we're in
the right spot.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever we get your podcasts, you can
find this. You can leave us five star review, You
can like, comment, subscribe all that good stuff on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok,
YouTube at Millennium MHC, at our website at millennimac dot com.
Thank you all for listening. I just saw Marshaun Lynch
was at my boy Pete Carroll's press conference yesterday or
(33:36):
two days ago. So really a renewed love for the
phrase take care of y'all. Mentals
This is Millennial Mental Health Channel. I'm doctor Justin Romano,
a Child and Adolescent psychiatry fellow.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
And I'm Medikoreo, a licensed clinical therapist. Our podcast is
here because we wanted to start a much need to
conversation about mental health.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Our goal is to teach you as much as we
can by sharing our own experiences and interviewing experts in
the mental health field. We will discuss topics like mood disorders,
psychotic disorders, substance use, personality disorders, and many more.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Millennial Mental Health Channel buy Millennials for everyone. We hope
you enjoyed today's episode.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
MMHC is a production of Speaker from iHeartMedia. I heartma
oh La bienvenidos. It's been a while since I've used
my Mexican announcer voice, but welcome back to MMHC. We
are excited you're here. We're excited to be here. We
are going to be talking about a very cool topic
(00:53):
today of religion, something that's been on our minds a
little bit more recently. So let's start off with like
a little bit about yourself. Tell me about your religious background,
what did you grow up with?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
More importantly, your announcer voice. You know what I did.
I learned this semi recently when Argentina won the World Cup.
One of the announcers whenever I would watch like Mexican
League soccer, I found out was Argentinian and I had
no idea. So Argentina won and he had like this
great like call when they won the World Cup. And
(01:27):
so anyway, okay, back to the show. Religious background. I've
been thinking about this for a couple of reasons. One
with the episode topic, I've been thinking about it, and
then the second is I'm currently teaching like cultural Foundations
class the first year master students, and our next week's
topic is actually about religion and spirituality. So this kind
of works out well. So I've been thinking about my
(01:48):
own background. I was raised Catholic, did most of the
things right, Like I was baptized, have my first communion.
We would go to church sometimes, definitely more often, like
when I was in Sunday School for my first communion,
and then just got the back a little bit, life
got a little busy. I was never I never had
my confirmation, which is like the next thing after communion.
(02:11):
But yeah, I mean that's just kind of how I
grew up. I know, for me, I don't know. I
feel like I was one of those teenagers like, ah,
we got to go to church. Now I got a
job and sports and stuff. It kind of got on
the way. But when I got to college, or while
I was in college was like the last couple of years,
I actually started going back to church with a few
friends of mine, and that was like kind of an
important part of our weekly routine, like going weekly, I
(02:33):
will say, and I will say this openly. When it
was the time of the year where we'd go out,
like to parties and stuff, we'd go to the Saturday
night Mass so that we wouldn't have to worry about
waking up earlier for the Sunday morning Mass, which is
its own thing. But yeah, it was something that I
grew up with, kind of didn't like put a whole
lot of effort in too as I got older, but
(02:54):
then once I became like a young adult, went back
into it. But honestly, I think one of the things
that shifted for me kind of like going back to
where I was of just not going to church as
often or being super involved was moving when I graduated
from school and everybody, you know, all of our our
friends and Dana, your wife, like moved and for rotations
and stuff, and Canvy moved, like I moved on my
(03:16):
own with some friends in a different city and then
I just wasn't close to a church there, and that
probably just kind of started the cascading of just like
not being super involved anymore. So that is my religious
background in a minute and a half.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Do you have any labels or titles for your current
religious status?
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Some curious? No, hmmm, I think I'm still Catholic. I
just maybe just not practicing.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Is that the little Catholic curious?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
That's fair Catholic light. I don't know. I still pray
here and there, and yeah, we'll go to church on
like Christmas time. Sometimes we're CEOs Christmas in Easter only
for a bit. But yeah, yeah, it's definitely, yeah, let's
do let's do like Catholic light. I think that's it's
(04:05):
just not as maybe embedded in my daily life as
it used to be.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Thank you for sharing, because I feel like it's important
for people to be able to talk about this stuff
in an open and friendly way, because it seems like,
unfortunately religion is such a point of contention for so
many people in a way to divide people, but it
can be a really good way to bring people together.
So that's one of the reasons why we wanted to
have this topic today. And for me, I grew up
(04:30):
in a very Christian household. My dad was an elder
in the church. We grew up in northern California initially
before moving to Wyoming when I was eleven, spent some
time in the Baptist Church. I was always a very
much a people pleaser growing up, so I was all
about church because it was Plus I was always really
good at memorizing things, so I was praised in church
(04:53):
all the time because I could memorize versus like nobody's business,
and like I was the kid in Nawanas who was
like going fast and getting like earning his Did you
ever do auanas or anything? It was like a church club.
The you like got like badges and stuff for memorizing
a bunch of verses and completing a bunch of work.
And so loved that stuff. But then, yeah, we moved
(05:14):
to Wyoming and didn't ever really find another church that
we liked as much as our church back home in California,
And I tried a couple of different ones, and I
just felt like all the churches I tried were so cliquy.
People didn't hardly even talk to me as like the
new guy there. It just felt like I was the outsider,
didn't feel welcome. Started to kind of question the religion thing.
(05:34):
Around high school, even I had a teacher who got
me kind of back into religion and said, like, you
can believe in science and religion at the same time.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
But then in.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
College started to learn more about science and the history
of religion itself, and towards the end of college, I
kind of realized that I just don't believe that there
is a god in this world. I don't see any
existence or evidence of a god in this world. And
so for probably about the last ten or so years,
(06:05):
I have been an outspoken atheist. But I always like
to say, like most atheists are kind of douchebags and
always spends so much time trying to convince you why
everyone else's religion is wrong and why they're right. But
my personal belief is that I think religion can be
a great thing, and I think it's a wonderful thing
(06:25):
for a lot of people, and I think you should
be able to believe whatever the hell you want to believe,
so personally atheist, but also just want other people to
do what makes them happy and what they enjoy too.
So that's a little bit about my journey and how
I ended up here.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
It's too bad a lot of other people don't have
that same thought of like, it's okay for you to
believe in whatever you believe in, and it doesn't have
an impact on me.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Such a novel concept, that's what.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
It seems like right now.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah, it's always this, Oh I got to prove I'm
right everyone's wrong. And you know, even in the church
growing up, there was an air of well, we're the
right ones, we are the ones who have it all
figured out, and everyone else is going to hell. And
once I kind of learned about even just the world
population and how there's about seven billion people and there's
(07:16):
a little bit less than two billion Christians, I was like, so,
according to your religion, God's just gonna damn eighty percent
of the earth to hell. Like that didn't make any
sense to me if God is truly a loving god
like they claim. So yeah, a lot of different things
along the way made me think like this just doesn't
make sense to me.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
I think one of the things with religion that I've
thought about, you know, for the episode and just for class,
is how much it can be in a very important
part of someone's life, like their identity and like thing
just things that are important to them. I think when
you look at something like religion and even like spirituality,
it's it's one of those things that can help and
still hope into people. It can help them work through
(07:54):
or process difficult times and moments in their life, could
really just kind of be a guiding force for them
things are going well, when things are not going well.
And I think that's one of the things that I've
I've tried to talk with students when I do like
teach my classes of like, yes, racial identity, socioeconomic status,
all these things are really important, but I also want
(08:15):
you to consider religion and spirituality in someone's life, like
that's also equally important. Like I almost feel like sometimes
that gets missed. I look back to my intake forms
when I used to do new client assessments. It felt
like everything else was a pretty big box, but religion
and spirituality was like kind of a little one that
you could, yeah, you could miss if you weren't paying
attention to it. So even even the absence of religion
(08:38):
and spirituality is important to know right when getting to
work with a new client and working with new.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
People totally, if your goal is to get some get
to know someone better, you should know about what their
religious preferences are. And especially as mental health providers, you
and I, it's so important to know that about people,
just to have a basic understanding and know about the
social support because in many cases religion is like the
number one way people get connected, people get their social support.
(09:07):
And one of the reasons why I really wanted to
focus on this topic for today is that overall, I'm
a pretty happy person. But I had the thought of,
like if I was religious, Like if I believed in
heaven and the afterlife, Like if I believe there was
really a God pulling all the strings making sure that
life is going to be okay, Like would I be happier,
would I be more at peace? Maybe it's worth considering
(09:31):
and thinking about, and so things that I wanted to
bring up and discuss today.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
A lot of the numbers that we're going to use
kind of for the beginning YEA, for the first part
of the show is a research study by I was
trying to make sure I pronounce this correctly. I think
it's mob fuck, I sucked it up?
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Is that what it? And is probably silent and I'm
probably we got to cut out.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Just so bad, so bad. I'm so embarrassed. Ah if
it's an a silent and then it's Gamma Gomaba, yes,
Gamaba and Sony or Sonny. I don't know. God, I'm
so bad. Please cut this out, bro, just you read it.
(10:21):
Let's go here we go.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
Is it bad that I like intentionally leave in tough names.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I know there's no disrespect to anybody that is more
cultural than me.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
I just oh, Gamaba and Sony. In twenty seventeen, This
is a paper funded by the National Institute of Health.
They looked at subjective well being results with religion, which
is interesting in and of itself has probably been not
the strongest data in the world, but how people perceive
that their own happinesses, which I think is still useful
(10:56):
information to use. The scale of one point four or
one to two for being the most happy, and at
the top of the list coming in at a whopping
score of three point twenty one were Protestants.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
It's been a religion that's been around since fifteen seventeen,
when Martin Luther split from the Catholic Church over disagreements
on indulgences. What is indulgences? What did they mean by that?
Speaker 1 (11:18):
An indulgence was a way for Catholics to buy their
way out of hell. So they would do something bad,
they would need to atone for their sins, and they
could just pay for it. So they'd be like, Oh,
I've got the money. I can do whatever I want
because I'm going to pay my way out of hell
if the church is happy with me. And Martin Luther
was like, I really don't like that we're doing this
as a religion as Catholicism, So he made his own
(11:41):
separation from the Catholic Church.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Well, this was called the Protestant Reformation. I remember that name.
I don't remember what happened, but I remember that name.
Luther wanted to focus on a personal relationship with Jesus
as the main way to get to heaven. It is
currently estimated that about zero point six to one point
one billion people are Protestant I believe in the world,
(12:04):
and that it accounts for twenty four to forty percent
of Christians as a whole. Protestants like that term also
include subgroups like lds SO Church of the Latter day
Saints or Mormons, and Jehovah's Witnesses. And one interesting stat
is that Africa is the continent that holds the most Protestants,
so forty one percent of the world's Protestants are in Africa.
(12:25):
And then for the United States, about forty percent of
Americans identify as Protestants, which is actually down from over
fifty percent in two thousand and nine according to the
Pew Research Center. One interesting thing about that, and one
of the things I'm trying to add into my lecture
for this week with religion, is how much of it
there is a decline, Like there really has been a
very sharp decline and people identifying as religious, as identifying
(12:48):
with a certain religion, and identifying as like religion being
important to them. I can't remember the exact numbers because
it's still a newer article that I was reading for
my class, but it's a pretty big decrease. And then
the other piece is one of the interesting stats from
the article was that while let's say like there was
a drop and don't quote me on this, but let's
(13:09):
just say there was like a drop in fifteen to
twenty percent of people, they're that much less are religious.
Instead of going to a different religion, people are basically
leaving the church to then be atheist or agnostic. So
they're just leaving a religion for no religion.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
And I'm fascinated as to why people are turning away
from Christianity from Protestantism so much, and boy, that could
be the topic of a three hour long podcast. But
I think just the Internet in andet of itself has
given people an outlet because in the past, if you
grew up an environment where everyone was Christian and that
(13:47):
was all you were exposed to, all you knew, that
was what you kind of had to believe in. But
now that there's the Internet and unlimited knowledge at your
fingertips about any and all religion, I think the Internet
in and of itself is a big factor as to
why people are less religious.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
I think to one of the piece is not just
like the information part, but just seeing people's real life experiences.
So like, if you grow up in a certain community,
maybe it with like a pretty small community, you just
don't know. You only know what you know, right so
if you grow up being taught certain things and then
maybe you leave for college or whatever it is. But
so I guess what I'm trying to say is, like
(14:25):
I feel like I hear a lot of like, oh,
I left for college and I met new people, and
that really changed my perceptions. But now maybe that's that
part is happening. It's still happening. But the other part
that's increased is that, oh, I started watching these videos
on how certain people were being treated based off of
like who they were by certain religious and I guess
this is like a pretty specific example with what's going
on currently in the world, I guess the United States,
(14:48):
but like people just having more information and seeing more
people's experiences where how they were treated by certain people
or by certain religious groups. I think that's unfortunately kind
of where we're at with you kind of mentioned it.
But like people feeling like my religion is the best
or my ideas are the best. It's the only one,
and if you don't follow these rules, even if I
don't know you, you're a shitty person. I'm going to
(15:10):
start the second religion one because I see a name
in there that I know I can pronounce and I'm
going to redeem myself. Going back to the study, the
second happiest religion with the score of three point one
seven is Buddhism. And I think Buddhism has been something
that has popped up more like in my professional life
and just personal life. Like when we went to Japan,
like we went to cool like Buddhist temples. We saw
(15:32):
the I believe the city was called Kamakuda, and there's
a big Buddha. We got to go inside of it
like that. That was pretty cool, right, And I think
one of the things that blew my mind in Japan
and just like other countries, is like how much older
things are there, Like there's they have like what feels
like actual history, whereas the United States, like it's like
two hundred years old like whatever, Like there's people who
(15:55):
are half that age and they're still alive. So anyway,
real history in other places. But Buddhism has been around
since the fifth century BCE or the before Common Era,
so about twenty five hundred years ago. I will also
add with Buddhism, the professional part of my life, uh
DVT has a lot of Buddhist principles in it. Uh
doctor did Am I now, I don't think I'm making
(16:18):
that up. I'm pretty sure. Look it up, look it up.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
It makes sense.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think Doctor Marshall Lenehan has been
pretty open about like having Eastern influences in DBT and
having something that come from Buddhism. Are you looking up
right now? I see?
Speaker 1 (16:32):
And according to Google's AI, DVT is a psychotherapy that
incorporates principles of Zen Buddhism.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Let's go, I know some shit anyway, So Buddhism was
started by the prophet Siddhartha Gautama, so he would later
be called Buddha or like the like as most people know,
he'd be referenced to Buddha. Very basically put, he believed
that life is suffering and that suffering comes from craving,
(17:03):
and that suffering ends when we conquer our cravings. So
if we end craving, we end suffering. They also had
five precepts that they live by, so it's like no killing,
no stealing, no sexual misconduct, no engaging a false speech,
and no indulging in intoxicans.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Third on the list is Roman Catholicism. They believe in
the Bible that is their main religious document. They believe
that they will be united with God in the afterlife
in heaven, very similar to Protestantism because they split off
from each other. Remember around fifteen hundred. You always hear
about Catholicism from comedians, like comedians who grew up Catholic,
(17:41):
and they always talk about the shame and guilt, And
so for me, I was thinking, like, well, there's no
way that these people are so happy if they're just
carrying around a bunch of shame and guilt all the time.
But they were number three on the list in terms
of subjective happiness. Some famous Catholics include the Pope. I
would say he's a pretty famous Cathleen. Every one of them,
(18:02):
every single one. Is it a coincidence?
Speaker 2 (18:05):
I think, Oh, I don't think so.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
JFK, Stephen Colbert, Nicole Kidman. And then you had a
good example for me too.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Right, former President Joe Biden. O sleepy Joe, Oh, thanks
for doing your best, Joe. Number four on the list
is Judaism. So some of their beliefs include believing that
there's one true God who is eternal. They believe that
they have this special covenant with God. They believe the
Messiah has not yet appeared on Earth, and they tend
(18:36):
to have a strong community. So people who are Jewish
make up about zero point two percent of the world population,
so it's about fourteen million of them in total. They
make up about two point four percent of the US population.
And one of the central concepts of Judaism is joy
and they have a word for it, which is simchaw.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
There's only fourteen million Jewish people in the world, and
the cost killed six million Jews total, so that was
a huge chunk of their population in total. You know,
I have a friend who is Indian and our shared
friend Kush, and he watched so much Seinfeld growing up
that he's pretty much more Jewish than he is Hindu
(19:18):
at this point.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
It's like.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
He knows like so many like Jewish words, and so
I think it's funny, like how many Yiddish words, which
is their name for their language that they use, like
so simcha. I've heard, you know, people talk about kismet
and schmilkis and all these funny words that make their
way into United States culture.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
And there's different like like sectors of Judaism, riter is
there different Like yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
They're little, You're absolutely right. Looks like there's Orthodox Reform,
Conservative Reconstructionist, Hasidic, Messianic, Karates, rabbinical farieses, seduce Sees, Issennis,
and Zelots.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
That's way more than a thought I thought there'd be
like three. Okay, Okay, that was more than I thought too.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, I'm glad we learned something today.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I mean, it is interesting how much like there's differences
like in even within religion. Like I almost think of,
like there's got to be some written out there about
like the differences with like Roman Catholic versus like Mexican Catholic. Right,
there's definitely differences with like I don't want to like
misspeak and like not do a good job of my
(20:33):
own like Mexican Catholic religion. But like there's definitely differences
in terms of like cultural celebrations and things like that.
So it is interesting to see how much like there's
like the base religion and then how much those things
there's different interpretations and things like that based off of
like the cultures that practice those those religions.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Protestantism, with Christianity as a broad blanket term, there is
just so many different types and one Christian will probably
have completely different beliefs from the next Christian. It is
so entwined with your culture. And yeah, you're absolutely right.
There are a lot of differences. And I was thinking,
maybe the big differences between Mexican Catholic is just those candles,
(21:12):
those little Jesus candles, Right.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah, we definitely have those miles of but there's also
like the there's just like also different stories too, and
like I think of like like like my I had
two cousins. I had King Signet's last year, and there
was like a church service for that, and like other
Catholics don't do that, right because Kensnetta is like a
Mexican thing. So yeah, it's it's just it's definitely interesting
(21:34):
how pieces of the religion change based off of the
culture that practices them.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Number five Hindus. This is a five thousand year old
religion that started in the Indus Valley. Hinduism is often
called a way of life or family of religion because
it embraces multiple different religious ideas. It doesn't have like
a strict outline of what it is should be like
(22:00):
a lot of other religions do. They view everything in
the universe as God. Hindus believe that each person is
intrinsically divine, and the purpose of life is to seek
and realize the divinity within all of us. And I
think that's really beautiful.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Hindu belief is totally non exclusive and accepts all other
faiths and religious paths. Maybe some people should try that.
Hindus make up about fifteen percent of the world population,
however only about one percent of the US population. Is
it practice is Hindu?
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Verse six the religion of Islam or Muslims. They believe
that there is no God other than Allah. There is
one true God. The prophet Muhammad was the messenger of God.
These people tend to pray five times per day as
a big part of their religion. They also fast during
the month of Ramadan to renew their awareness and gratitude
(22:58):
for everything God has provided, and their sacred text is
the Qoran.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Seventh on the list is non religious people, and then
the unhappiest religious groups are or the docs or the
docs meaning like the more I guess hardcore religious people,
so eighth on the list when ranking religions from happiest
to unhappiest.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Honestly, when I talk to young people, they seem to
have very poor religious literacy, like I'll even ask people
like are you religious? And a lot of kids will
straight up look at me, My teenagers that I that
I work with, They'll look at me and say, what
does that mean? Like what is that? What is religious?
Like they don't even know the basics of terminology for
(23:45):
religion and spirituality because I used to say, like, are
you spiritual? And people also didn't know what that was,
So I switched to religion and people still don't know
what that was. So one question I like to talk
about or ask and then also teach about, is can
someone be spiritual without being religious?
Speaker 2 (24:05):
I mean, what would classify as being spiritual? Like in
things like this is gonna make me sound kind of ignorant,
but I'm just doing my best. Like things like karma
and manifestation and like maybe like inner belief and mindfulness
and inner peace, those feel like spiritual concepts, and I
feel like not all of those need to be tied
(24:28):
to a religion. I think, even like things like with meditation,
like that they don't always need to be religious practices,
but people will incorporate those in their kind of daily life,
So I think so, And I think that's I think
that's why you ask the question of are you religious
or do you have any like spiritual practices, because they
can be different, they can be similar, and there can
(24:49):
be some overlap, but I think they're Yeah, you could
probably do be spiritual without the other. What do you think?
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Yeah, I would agree, And I think you gave some
really good examples too, And I would say I'm probably
an example of spiritual but not religious. Like I like
some of the spiritual concepts of religion. I like being
connected with other humans. I like helping other people. I
want to live in a world where we help each
(25:15):
other instead of tear people down. But I don't ascribe
to any particular religion in this world. But I think
it's important to have that spiritual connection to the earth,
to other human beings, because it can make life better
if you feel connected to this world around us.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah, well you talked about earlier, how not you're not
necessarily or you're not a religious person anymore. But if
we look at our list, that means you're the seventh
unhappiest person I know. So, just like off the top
of your head, why do you think religious people at
least according to that study, which we've already said, Like
isn't the greatest in terms of like collection of data.
(25:54):
But why do you think religious people are happier? Can
be happier?
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Probably the biggestart of the community. You talk to people
who are religious, who are still actively religious, involved in
their church, they just have a built in network. They
know so many people. There's so much support, there's financial support,
there's spiritual support, there's so many different things that they
can fall back on. And our world is becoming more
and more and more individualistic, especially with phones and social media.
(26:25):
People aren't going out and meeting face to face as
much as they were in the past. They're sitting in
their house, and loneliness is at an all time high.
We're starting to really hit epidemic pandemic levels of loneliness
in this world. And spirituality and religion gives you a
way to connect with other people, which is good for us.
It's healthy for us. Plus, you know, we talked about
(26:47):
it a little bit earlier, just having that idea that
there is someone out there pulling the strings making sure
you're going to be okay. So a divine being, a
god watching over everything is a comforting idea. I remember
the first time I thought because growing up christian I
always thought like, when I die, I'm going to heaven.
(27:08):
But then when I started to question this stuff, I
was like, WHOA, if I die, what if there is nothing?
What if my brain stops firing and there is nothing
but eternal darkness and just nothing forever once I'm dead?
And that scared the shit out of me. At first,
I was like, whoa, this is an awful feeling of
(27:29):
feeling like there's there's going to be an endpoint and
absolutely nothing after that. So it is comforting to have
the religion to have some of these ideas. And Christianity
really got popular during the Dark Ages, you know, around
you know, five hundred AD, because the earth sucked. Then
it was after the fall of the Roman Empire. The
(27:51):
Romans kind of kept everything together, but once they fell,
it was lawlessness and disorder. They were burning libraries, We
went backwards in terms of technology. There were marauders and
raiders running around everywhere. It was a tough time to live,
and that's when Christianity took off. Life was so bad
here on Earth. They said there's got to be something
(28:12):
better after this, and so that's when people are like, hey,
there's this religion that's been kind of on the low
levels of things for a while for the past hundred years.
This might make people feel better in the moment.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Something like religion can give people answers. Yeah, I think
we get really anxious when we don't have answers, and
for some people being able to get the answer through
something like religion is really helpful and really call me
and can internally to like feeling happier. I also agree
with you with like the sense of community and the
sense of like having those people you know, I know
(28:44):
people who every week we go to our church group,
we hang out with our church friends, like that kind
of thing. At the school that I work at, there's
a pretty big Mormon population, and like meeting with those students,
are checking in with them, and them telling me about
their daily routine of going to seminary or going to
church on the weekend, and like that being embedded in
(29:04):
their life. Feeling happiness from that, feeling like support through
the community that they have is I think something that's
really helpful. Now, obviously I mentioned earlier, you know religion
is on the decline. Something to think about is just
how much like you start to have your own thoughts
and ideas as you get older, and sometimes that religion
or that community that you relied on maybe isn't really
(29:27):
there for you anymore because you're starting to have those
those differences of thoughts and opinion. So I don't know
something to think about, and I.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Appreciate your insights and what's going through your head too.
It was one of the things I wanted to bring
up to. One thing that I find fascinating is just
the interplay in mental health and religion in a couple
of different ways.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Like I've come.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Across some people in my life who they'll come to
me and they'll ask for mental health advice, and then
after talking with me and I'll say, you know, go
to a therapist, you know, talk to your doctor about
maybe starting medicine if it's really bad, and then you know,
I'll give advice. And then I've even had people say,
now I think they just need to they need God,
they need God to fix it for them. And I'm like, like,
(30:09):
that's that's okay to rely on your religion and fall
back on it, But I also think it's important to
try some other things too, try some evidence based things
that can be helpful with those types of things. It
can be a both. It doesn't have to be in
either or. Plus, I remember learning in residency that a
lot of times religious delusions are more common in bipolar disorder.
(30:33):
I was fascinated by this, and I met a couple
people on the impatient units who were really manic, so
bipolar disorder, supermanic. They're not sleeping, They've got a ton
of energy. And I was doing some reading on it,
and I think it's because that people who are manic,
you know, they feel great. They've got that euphoria, they've
(30:53):
got that grandiosity. They think they're amazing. And a lot
of people will use their religious beliefs to justify the
way they feel. So they'll say, I am amazing, I
am so wonderful. I can read a book without even
opening the pages. I can just touch it and absorb
all the words I've had. Actually, people tell me that
before too, and I think they'll say, like, well, if
(31:15):
I'm this amazing, I must be Jesus, Like I must
be some religious figure. I am the Second Coming. So
I think oftentimes in schizophrenia, in bipolar disorder, sometimes people's
religion shapes the disease itself, and that is something I
find incredibly fascinating.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Yeah, I forget. I feel like I had a patient
one time telling me like, man, I just I woke
up this morning feeling so ready. I felt like I
could wrestle God. And I was like, oh, okay, let's
let me call this like real quick.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
God is a black belt in jiu jitsu.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
So I don't know if I would be interesting thing.
Even if the numbers are declining in the US, it's
still something that's around and I feel if anything, some
people maybe even taken the opportunity to get more strengthened,
to strengthen their relationship with their religion, to really get
embedded in their religion and the beliefs. And even if
(32:16):
there is a decline, I sometimes I feel like in
some cases there's examples of people becoming more with their
religion even while it's declining around them. So interesting stuff
to think about.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
A lot of people in the United States don't ever
take any time to learn about other religions. Yeah, and
I think it's important to know on a human standpoint,
on a spiritual standpoint, on a political standpoint, it's important
to understand what drives people, what motivates people, where people
are coming from, and the culture associated with their religion too.
(32:50):
So one of the reasons why we wanted to talk
about this is to try and you know, make the
world a better place, like we're always trying to do,
to teach you a little bit about these religions and
show that I love that you weren't afraid to be
a little bit vulnerable and say like, I don't know
about this, like let's look it up, because that's the
mindset that we should be having, Like we don't have
to have all the answers. As long as we're opening
(33:11):
ourselves up to learning about other people, then we're in
the right spot.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever we get your podcasts, you can
find this. You can leave us five star review, You
can like, comment, subscribe all that good stuff on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok,
YouTube at Millennium MHC, at our website at millennimac dot com.
Thank you all for listening. I just saw Marshaun Lynch
was at my boy Pete Carroll's press conference yesterday or
(33:36):
two days ago. So really a renewed love for the
phrase take care of y'all. Mentals
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