October 31, 2024 • 31 mins
In this episode, Eddie and Justin discuss attachment theory and explain how early childhood bonds shape the rest of our lives. Whether you are curious about your own attachment style, interested in psychology, or seeking to strengthen your own relationships, this episode offers insights from professionals to build stronger connections.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, Eddie, what's your Halloween costume this year?
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Damn it?
Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is Millennial Mental Health Channel. I'm doctor Justin Romano,
a Child and Adolescent psychiatry fellow, and.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I'm Medikoreo, a licensed clinical therapist. Our podcast is here
because we wanted to start a much new to conversation
about mental health.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Our goal is to teach you as much as we
can by sharing our own experiences and interviewing experts in
the mental health field. We will discuss topics like mood disorders,
psychotic disorders, substance use, personality disorders, and many more.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Millennial Mental Health Channel buy Millennials for everyone. We hope
you enjoy. Today's episode.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
MMHC is a production of Speaker from iHeartMedia.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I HEARTMA. Okay, hold on, how do I best explain this?
We're not going to the Halloween party. Kevin and I
are not going to the Halloween party that we usually
go through this year because instead we will be celebrating
the one year anniversary of our friends getting married. Shout
out Grace and Jeff. So weon't do that but tomorrow
(01:00):
I'm planning. I randomly years ago bought this headband from
Dollar Tree that has like little bees on it. And
then I'm gonna wear a yellow shirt and some black
and then I'm gonna call it good.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
So he's just gonna be a big, cute, little big
did you guys do you Dan?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Liam? What do you guys got?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
We went to a party last weekend and I said,
hence I shaved my beard so that I could be
doctor Evil.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Oh yeah, I did see that.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
We'll have to post a picture on the on the Instagram.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
The we we.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Didn't bring him to Omaha, but we got him a
minime outfit so that I could put him in his
baby Bjorn and go yeah, Mini me.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
I love those Austin Powers movies. It's so funny.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Those were good.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
So today I do have a shout out real quick. Actually,
I just was on a podcast called The Internet Is
Crack and I had a great time. Yeah, it's all
about how the Internet is addictive and crack. So it's
a perfectly right up my alley. Oh and it's kind
of another off topic, but my ted talk is up
to over four hundred thousand views on YouTube. It's just
(02:15):
crazy that that many people have seen it. So yeah,
shout out to the Internet is Crack. I had a
great time on the show. Any shout outs for you,
my friend.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Well, that's just making me think of you. Ever seen
the clip of Stephen A. Smith who like, there's something
with like lamar Otum and then he goes whose first
move as head coach of the Lakers was to draft
or trade for lamar Otum, who was on Crack.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
So I thought you were gonna go with stay off
the we is a walking sound by?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
He is? He really is. Yeah, I don't have a
shout out other than Steven A. Smith.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Well today we're gonna be talking about attachment and yeah.
I recently had someone ask me, like, who's your favorite
like child psychiatry theorist, because there's a couple a handful
of people who have like really influenced the field of
child psychiatry.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
You know.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I had to think about it for a second and
I said, I guess if it comes down to it,
I would say John Bowlby, who came up with attachment theory.
Because there are a few things in this world from
a psychological perspective that makes sense and applies to almost
every single human on earth. But I think attachment theory
does it. I think it is such a simple but
(03:32):
beautiful theory that helps explain why people do what they
do and act how they act. So that's one of
the reasons why I wanted to talk about it with
you guys today.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Was Bolby the one that did the study with Oh man,
it's like the something Stranger, like the unknown stranger. Do
you know?
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Oh, the Strange situations developed by Ainsworth. So that was
Mary Ainsworth based John Bowlby's attachment theory. So it is
building upon it.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I'm always surprised when I remember ship from school.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Years and years ago. Now we're getting old, we are
getting old.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Oh can you give me a definition of attachment theory?
What do I need to know about this?
Speaker 1 (04:17):
So, according to simplypsychology dot com, and I like this
definition that they had. Attachment theory is a model for
understanding human beings, behavior, and psychology, emphasizing the central role
of caregivers and attachment figures who provide a sense of
safety insecurity. Attachment theory hypothesizes that early caregiver relationships established social, emotional,
(04:42):
and developmental foundations, but change remains possible across a lifespan
due to interpersonal relationships during childhood, adolescent, and adulthood, so
essentially our relationships that we have with our primary caregivers
as babies, so most of the time it's our parents
shapes the relationships for the rest of our lives. And
(05:04):
this stuff isn't static. It is dynamic. It can change
and it can move, but sometimes it can be hard
to change these things, and a lot of these patterns
that are built when we are babies are there for
a long time for a lot of our lives.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
I like that part of the end where it says
it remains possible to change across lifespan due to other
interpersonal relationships. TikTok has made so much of like basic
psychology information and like definitions into like this pop psychology stuff,
so you get like, I don't know, you get these
things like psychology says that if you react this way
(05:40):
when someone opens the door, it means you have anxious attachment.
And it's like, I don't know, like that, that's that's
way too like trivialize. It's not that much. Yeah, And
then I think on the other side of it, you
get people who will say, like, oh, well, I learned
off of TikTok that I act this way because of
my attachment style from my childhood and it's like, yeah,
I mean that could be part of it, but also
(06:00):
you've had a number of other interpersonal relationships that can
help and have help shape your attachment style and the
way that you interact with others. So like to just
base your behavior off of like a thirty second video
from TikTok, I think is which you shouldn't be doing
that anyway, But I think that's the one thing when
we when the decision was made to talk about attachment
(06:22):
style today attachment theory, that was one of the first
things that came up was how much like I think,
it's the spot in the middle where it just gets
all mushy because of social media and TikTok. I don't
like that part social media.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
TikTok, they're teaching people about a lot of this stuff,
but just like anything on the Internet, there is so
much false information misinformation out there. You've really got to
be careful what sources you have. Yeah, you know, the
only one I really trust on social media is casual Geographic.
Have you ever seen that Guy's like animals? It's hilarious.
(06:55):
There's this guy who just does these animal videos and
you can clearly tell these a huge SpongeBob fan. Seems
like he's a millennial, and so yeah, you're looking him
up right now. Yes, I've been watching a ton of
his videos that they're all letched about animals. They're lighthearted
and funny. He doesn't Yeah, he's great.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Curious I have seen this guy before.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, he's John viral a bunch of times. He's super popular,
but no one knows that. Like it's casual geographic.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Is yea the times I see it's where he talks
about like, oh, these animals seem fluffy and cuddly, right
wrong this, Yeah, we talked about it. Why is this important?
It's important even though I should it on a little bit,
not really, it just the tiktoks out of it. But
it's important because it means that every relationship that you
have in your lifetime is in some way, shape or
(07:42):
form influenced by the relationship that you had with your
caregivers growing up. This makes me think about you know,
when I was working in a clinic where I had
a lot of clients who were like in the foster
system or who were going through maybe change of caregiver,
all that kind of thing, and you can really see
how it impacts how they either react to certain situations,
(08:03):
how they think about certain situations. It's not just like
this person or person reactions of like how do they
act with their caregiver, how do they talk to adults,
But even it extends to like relationships with other kids,
with kids their age, with other peers, with siblings. That
kind of stuff impacts those relationships too, And you can
really see when it's someone who's had struggles with their
(08:26):
original caregiver that can really impact them for a long time.
It could impact the way that they choose a partner
later in life. It could impact the way that they
choose friends. It could impact the way that they how
they are as a worker and an employee, Like all
those kinds of things can be impacted because of what
they've gone through early on in life with their caregiver
and with those relationships. We don't want to just say
(08:46):
it's just parents, because there's a lot of roles that
come into play. But things that think about too are
things like grandparents, teachers, I mentioned it, foster parents, daycare workers.
If you're someone that goes to a daycare early on
in life, you're there for the first three or four
years of your life. It's the same people. Well, they
definitely will have an impact on you and you growing up.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
As a child psychiatrist and a clinician, I would have
to say like ninety percent of my tough cases are
the ones where kids grow up without a solid, consistent caregiver.
Mom and dad are usually into drugs and alcohol in
and out of prison. They're not consistent in their kids' lives,
and they never really learn how to bond and connect
(09:25):
with people, so it's hard for them to trust you.
It's hard for them to open up, it's hard for
them to work on things because just the basics of
trust and understanding each other takes so long to establish
that these cases can take a very long time to
make any progress. But if you do have a good, safe,
(09:46):
secure attachment to your caregivers growing up, you're more likely
to be trusting, loving, and understanding. I see so many
people make comments like, you know, I can't remember that
time in my life, so how important can it be?
But actually it's so incredibly important. And so many things
that we learn as babies are subconscious as adults, like
(10:09):
literally how to move, Like I'm watching my nineteen month
old baby right now learn how to move his body.
All of this stuff is going to be so second
nature by the time he becomes an adult, But right now,
it's a day to day learning. How do you walk,
how do you move? How do you lift your leg?
How do you move around? Same stuff with relationships and
(10:30):
trust with people. You learn so much when you're a kid,
and you establish those foundations when you're a baby, So
you learn how to trust, you learn how to love,
You learn how to make up with people, You learn
how to forgive people, You learn how to problem solve
during relationships. Those first three years of your life is
so crucial and essential for your emotional and social development.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Man, that really makes me think just so much. I
mentioned it earlier and you were talking about it. Those
kids who are in the foster system will have a
really negative relationship with their caregivers of like I think,
I guess I want to talk about a little more,
Like yeah, it's not just the those like peer to
peer or parent to peer relationships, but I just think
of like how they react when they get like a negative,
(11:15):
negative constructive feedback from a teacher, How they react when
a boss tells them that they did something wrong. How
do they react when someone out in public takes their
parking spot? Like, all these things end up being shaped.
A lot of it because of, you know, what their
relationship was with their caregiver early on. I didn't say
this earlier. I was thinking about it as you talked.
(11:35):
Reactive attachment disorder right, very common in kids teens who
either were in the foster system, who maybe didn't grow
up with a primary caregiver. That is something that we
see a lot, and I saw a ton when I
had clients who are on who were in foster care.
Like they they struggled, they had these things. And then
you think about too, like, these are the kids that
(11:57):
you get reports from school, or you get reports from daycare,
you get reports from other institutions that they blow up
or they don't know how to talk to kids, or
they don't know how to communicate with others. And it's
all a lot of it comes from, you know, those
early on relationships that they had with their care or
lack of relationships that they had with their caregiver. It
just you're making me think today, I like good, it's connecting,
(12:22):
it's connecting dots. We'll talk about research. What does it
say according to the Cleveland Clinic, there's been about five
decades of research on attachment theory, which is confirmed that
your earliest bonds can directly affect the health of your
romantic relationships. And then there's babies whose caregivers can regularly
be relied on for comfort and devoted attention, they tend
(12:44):
to have more stable relationships later on. And then there's
infants whose caregivers are the ones. When they have caregivers
who are less attentive are more likely to have more
difficulty forming healthy relationships as adults. So even like you
said earlier, justin people will say, you know, I can't
remember that part of my life. How important can it be?
You mentioned it already very important.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
There's a couple of different specific attachments types and styles,
which is what I love about this. It's it's simple,
it's clear, it's concise, and it just nails it so perfectly,
does ya thinking about it in a simplistic way. There's
secure attachment and insecure attachment. There's one type of secure
attachment and a couple of types of insecure, but secure
(13:28):
attachment style usually comes from babies who form secure attachments
with their caregivers and when the caregivers provide consistently or
consistent physical and emotional needs. They're fulfilling all of those
needs of a baby. Babies who are securely attached prefer
their primary giver over other people and are calmed by
(13:49):
their presence.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
I think about that too, when you have like, yeah,
like a newborn. You have a baby who like you know,
the aunt, uncle, whatever, like they're trying to help out too,
but like it does and always work the same. It's
when they get to mom or dad or whoever primary
caregivers are. That's when they start to feel sooth. I
see that a lot of like, yeah, that that is
an example of a secure attachment. People with a secure
(14:11):
attachment style or style are more readily able to form
long lasting and healthy relationships with others, and they're more
likely to trust their partner and be emotionally available for them.
It's estimated that about fifty eight percent of adults have
a secure attachment style, so that leaves about forty two
percent dispersed across the other ones. And then, just because
someone has a secure attachment style does not mean it's
(14:33):
smooth sailing all the time, that's for sure. It definitely
does not mean they are without issues or problems or
running into things, but.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
The foundations there you're able to form trust and connections
with other people. So let's dive into those insecure attachment.
So the first one is called anxious attachments to usually
(15:01):
happens when babies whose primary caregivers are not consistent in
meeting the baby's needs. Babies learn that they may or
may not get the attention they need to survive, and
they aren't easily comforted by their caregivers. People with anxious
attachment style may be seen as clingy, needy, or not trusting.
(15:22):
They often have a strong fear of abandonment and feel
like they need a lot of reassurance in relationships. And
it's estimated that about nineteen percent of adults have an
anxious attachment style, so about one in five.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
The next one is avoidant attachment. So this usually occurs
when a caregiver does not provide a baby with sufficient
emotional support. They often do care for the physical needs
like feeding and bathing, but not the emotional comfort that
the baby also needs. The baby then learns to not
rely on others for their emotional needs. As adults with
avoidant attachment style, they could be seen as self reliant
(15:56):
and emotionally guarded, and they're unlikely to seek comfort, seek
emotional comfort, understand how they're how to comfort their partner emotionally.
And it's estimated that about twenty three percent of adults
have and avoidant attachment style. So that's the that's about
one in four instead of the one in five.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
And the last one is disorganized attachment. This usually forms
through particularly tumultuous childhoods, often with a lot of fear
and trauma. It stems from an erratic, incoherent relationship with
a baby's primary caregiver, and adults with this disorganized attachment
(16:34):
are likely to live with mental health problems or personality
disorders that prevent them from developing healthy relationships with others.
This is pretty incommon. If you notice that the other
ones account for like ninety nine percent and then disorganized
as probably five percent or less. These people tend to
crave close relationships but push others away when shown attention.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Oh that sounds like borderline personnel disordered a little bit.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, yeah, very.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Simp Do you remember I feel this almost feels like
one of those things where I'm making this up. Okay,
so we're talking about secure attachment, and we're talking about
maybe they avoided an attachment. More specifically, there was a
study done which I think at this point I don't
know if the IRB the International Review Board would approve it,
but it was with I believe, like baby monkeys, and
(17:23):
there was one monkey, so they had like the baby monkey,
the two baby monkeys, and they were put into a cage,
and inside of the cage, I believe there was two
adult monkey like figures, so they weren't actually monkeys, but
they looked like monkeys. On one side was supposed to
(17:43):
be a monkey that was warm and cuddly and it
was made out of like a blanket or like soft material.
On the other side was a metal one that was
not warm and cuddly, but had access to like a
bottle or where to get like food from. And I
think they found that the monkeys preferred the warm and
cuddly blanketed one instead of the other one, even though
(18:06):
the other one provided food and meant their basic needs.
I will preface this, or I guess I'll continue this
with saying this was probably fucked up to do that
to the monkeys, and there probably was not like was
it worth it? To figure that out. But I feel
like this is coming back to me too of a
study similar to that, where it might have even seen
a video like in class or when I was in school.
(18:28):
I don't know, I don't know if I'm making I
feel like. I feel like it's a thing.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
And as soon as you said like a metal monkey,
my first thought was brass monkey, that funky monkey, because
I'm constantly just cycling through songs in my head because
that's the way my brain works. But there was also
I remember reading a lot of studies on rats that
they did and that rat mothers that like lick their
(18:52):
babies show them physical affection. They tend to release more
oxytocin in the brain of the mother and the baby,
which is that connection and chemical that is released in
our brain. Like when humans hug and kiss each other,
We're releasing a lot of oxytocin and that forms their
bonds and also predicts how successful they are with dealing
with stress later in life. So this stuff has been
(19:15):
shown in other animals. It's not just a uniquely human thing.
And that's pretty fascinating that this is survival, this is evolution.
There's an evolutionary advantage to having connections with our family
and our loved ones. It's crazy, that's so cool.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah, So we want.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
To talk a little bit about attachment styles and how
they predict the health of your relationships with family and
with your children, because oftentimes attachment styles are passed down
from generation to generation. If your parent has a specific
attachment style and shows you that models that to you,
you are more likely to have that attachment style with
(19:53):
your parent and then subsequently with your children as well.
It's easy to be able to say, like, well, why
don't people just provide their children with their emotional and
physical needs. It's like, well, sometimes people can't. Sometimes people
struggle sometimes that was never shown to them in their lives.
And this generational aspect is this strong.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I was just thinking that, like, maybe they're not able
to because of their own attachment that they are their
own experiences, you know, growing up as kids and then
becoming adults and having children of their own or being caregivers.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
So so I know that we got some of the
basics of attachment theory. Let's do some disgust and discussion questions. Anie,
how is attachment theory important in the concept or in
the context of therapy.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Yeah, I think. You know, we were talking about a
case before this, and it's been popping up in my
head as where we're talking through the episode of like
how this individual's attachment and relationship with their caregivers growing
up probably has a huge impact on where they're at
(21:02):
right now, and like how they are dealing with authority
or dealing with other adults and other relationships in their life.
And so I think it could be really helpful. I
think if as long as you have someone who's kind
of understanding of attachment styles and how that could play
and not just like the pop psychology stuff we see
on social media, I think it's really important. It can
(21:23):
be really helpful. What do you think.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I think a lot of times your therapist is the
one who can reshape your attachment style. If your therapist
is someone there for you all the time, and you're
not worried about your therapist leaving and you feel like
you can really trust them and talk with them, that
can help you shift that attachment style to a more
(21:47):
secure attachment. That's a big part of the concepts of
why therapy works, because almost all types of therapy work.
They all do something, especially if you give them enough time.
Some might work a little bit sooner than others. But
the main reason why we think that therapy works is
because you're developing an attachment with your therapist. You're learning
(22:10):
how to connect with other people, how to trust other people,
how to trust other people with your information, your deepest,
darkest thoughts, and then you can start to use that
secure attachment with your therapist to other relationships in your
life once you have a good, secure attachment with that therapist.
So that is such an important thing, and it's so
(22:30):
sad to me that some people in their lives don't
have a secure attachment. They don't have someone that they
could feel like they can really trust until they finally
get that therapist hopefully. So it's good that there's hope,
but sad that, you know a lot of people don't
have that.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
What about with We've talked about it a little bit,
but any other examples that you can think of attachment styles,
attachment theory in popular culture?
Speaker 1 (22:54):
So, my wife and I have just been on a
real kick of reality dating show Love Island, Love is Blind,
and I can't do it anymore. It's driving me absolutely crazy.
I told her, I was like, we gotta watch anything else, please,
But I hear this line a lot in those types
(23:17):
of shows, and it just happened in Again and Love
is Blind season seven, the most recent one, where I
can't even remember which couple it was, but someone said,
I feel myself being able to open up to you
and it's terrifying, And I thought that was perfect. That
is like the perfect line for someone with an avoidant
(23:38):
attachment disorder. They want that connection, but they're so afraid
of that connection. They're so afraid of the vulnerability it
takes to attach and connect with someone like that that
it puts them off, It scares them, it makes them
shy away, and boy, it makes for excellent television because
it's like, well, they won't they Will they be able
(23:59):
to overcome this? Will they be able to actually trust
each other?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
You remember shows like Next or Room Raiders or like
Parental Control those days, yeah, back in the.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Day, oh the MTV ones and pH one.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
And now we have the Golden Bachelor, and now I.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Have the Golden Bachelor.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
If you don't mind sharing, what attachment style do you
think you have it? In any examples you can give me.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I was like scrolling back, it was like fuck uh,
I don't know. Man, this has made me think I
feel like I am someone who needs some reassurance. But
I don't know if I'm someone who needs a lot
of reassurance or just like some here or there. I'm
definitely also some and not just like in my relationship
or other like friendships and stuff, but also like reassurance
(24:49):
like at work sometimes like making sure that I not
that I need to be told that I'm doing a
great job all the time, but just like reassurance that
like am I doing things I don't know? I feel
like that's that m the one thing I'm hung up on.
Other than that, I feel fairly confident that I'm in
the fifty eight percent with a secure attachment. I just
think of like these really long relationships and friendships and
(25:11):
stuff that I've had over the years and connections that
I've built, and feeling pretty pretty secure most of the time.
But honestly, yeah, I think the reassurance part is one
that I think is really sticking out to me. And
I can't remember if someone can have a secure anxious
style or like what that like little I'm trying to think.
I swear I can like picture a textbook in my
(25:32):
head from like undergrad of like all the secure all
the attachment styles and stuff. But yeah, I'm probably somewhere
in there, probably more to the secure side. Actually, Like
the last point that you made says, just because someone's
secure attachment doesn't mean everything is smooth saliente. So yeah,
I consider.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
And yes there are four like big broad main categories,
but yeah, it's somewhat of a spectrum. No one's all
one thing or all the other, especially in like a
work setting. I just like to know that I'm doing right, Like,
especially if I don't get any feedback for months, I'm like,
am I doing the right thing? Am not doing the
right thing? It's like it's hard to know unless someone tells.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
You, Yeah, what about you? Have you thought about it?
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm secure attachment, you know. Thinking
about my childhood, I don't think there was ever a
time in my life where I didn't or where I
ever had to question the love for my parents.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
They were always there for me, which I think also
brings up another really good point of like privilege, because
we think of privilege a lot of times from a
socioeconomic standpoint, like how much money and opportunities you had.
But also I think there's emotional privilege how much your
parents were able to invest in your life and your learning,
(26:42):
in your relationship and your connection, because that sets you
up with all the rest of the relationships for the
rest of your life. And I feel incredibly privileged for
the parents that I was given. And i know I've
said it many times before, but I'm just so lucky
and I always just want That's one of the reasons
I like being in psychiatry is because I want to
(27:04):
help people heal from a lot of the generational trauma
that they've been through so that they can make a
world for their children like I had. That's kind of
like my big goal.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Yeah, you know when you mentioned never having to worry
about being cared for and needs men and stuff as
a child, I think that's where I'm That makes me
more lean to the secure side because the same thing.
Very privileged to be on that end of the spectrum
where it's not something that I ever really had to
worry about, and definitely has played a positive impact to
where I am today.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
And you know, I've met your parents. They're incredibly loving people.
It's just so cool. It's fun to meet your friend's
parents and be like, oh, I can see why they
are the way that they are.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
And I think as adults it's a little cooler like
when you're like, yeah, middle school, in high school, it's
like hey, but then like as an adult's you can
actually like talk to them, which I think is cool.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
People are curious about their attachment style. What recommendations do
we have? How do they go about researching this stuff?
Talking about these things?
Speaker 2 (28:07):
TikTok search attachment style? I think one. I mean, we
got a lot of our info from the Cleveland Clinic.
I think any type of like trusted medical, psychiatric psychology information,
whether it's like the American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association,
the American Counseling Association, any of those places, the National
(28:29):
Institute of Health, all those things, SAMSA, the some substance,
all those places I think are helpful therapy for sure.
This episode is hopefully a good start, especially if you're curious.
But that's what I got. What do you think?
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Well, from a psychiatric standpoint, medicines don't really help this one. Yeah,
attachment style isn't really made any better by medicine, So
this one's kind of on personal growth, self discovery, trying
to experience packing your childhood and trying to figure out
where you land and maybe if you feel like you
are landing more in the insecure attachment style, it may
(29:08):
be time to reach out to a therapist and start
working on these things.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Yeah, what do you got for us for celebrities before
we close this one out?
Speaker 1 (29:15):
You know, like I always say, some topics are like
lists and listen list of celebrities, some are none whatsoever.
I found one person that has actually come out and
talked about their specific attachment style, and that is the
beautiful Emily Redikowski, who said that it was an interview
once where she said that therapy was actually really helpful
for her in overcoming that fear of abandonment, which sounds
(29:39):
along the lines of that anxious attachment style, and she
also studied attachment and her attachment style. I thought it
was cool that she was willing to open up and
talk about how therapy and learning about attachment theory helped
her change her life.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Dope, Well, thank you all for listening. We're really excited
for our next episode. We have a really cool guest
coming on. We're excited to share that with you. We'll
give you more information as we get closer. Shout out
to Justin for this cool topic that we could talk about.
Really made me think about myself. But I think O
Brawl is a lot of great information. We appreciate you
all for listening Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you listen to
(30:16):
your podcast, we are there and available. Feel free to like, share, subscribe,
show it to your friends, send it to somebody, leave
us a five star review. You can also leave us
a comment. Someone left the comment the other day, I
was going to ask you about this Justin on Spotify
that they said that I had an L take on
Mariah Carey's album and I can't remember exactly what I said,
but it was probably something along the lines of saying
(30:38):
that the emancipation of Mimi that was like her best album.
And I don't know if that's an L take.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Someone to comment.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Shout out to them. I love it. I'll take it,
but leave us a comment, leave us a five star review.
We're here for We appreciate you all. We've started to
show up on some charts a little more frequently recently,
so that's been pretty cool. Whether it's Chile, New Zealand, Australia.
Shout out to everyone listening. We appreciate you all on
social media at Millennia MH That's TikTok, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube,
(31:12):
and our website MILLENNIAIMH dot com. Thank you again for
listening and make sure to take care of all mentals.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Viva Chile.
Okay, Eddie, what's your Halloween costume this year?
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Damn it?
Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is Millennial Mental Health Channel. I'm doctor Justin Romano,
a Child and Adolescent psychiatry fellow, and.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I'm Medikoreo, a licensed clinical therapist. Our podcast is here
because we wanted to start a much new to conversation
about mental health.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Our goal is to teach you as much as we
can by sharing our own experiences and interviewing experts in
the mental health field. We will discuss topics like mood disorders,
psychotic disorders, substance use, personality disorders, and many more.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Millennial Mental Health Channel buy Millennials for everyone. We hope
you enjoy. Today's episode.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
MMHC is a production of Speaker from iHeartMedia.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I HEARTMA. Okay, hold on, how do I best explain this?
We're not going to the Halloween party. Kevin and I
are not going to the Halloween party that we usually
go through this year because instead we will be celebrating
the one year anniversary of our friends getting married. Shout
out Grace and Jeff. So weon't do that but tomorrow
(01:00):
I'm planning. I randomly years ago bought this headband from
Dollar Tree that has like little bees on it. And
then I'm gonna wear a yellow shirt and some black
and then I'm gonna call it good.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
So he's just gonna be a big, cute, little big
did you guys do you Dan?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Liam? What do you guys got?
Speaker 1 (01:20):
We went to a party last weekend and I said,
hence I shaved my beard so that I could be
doctor Evil.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Oh yeah, I did see that.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
We'll have to post a picture on the on the Instagram.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
The we we.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Didn't bring him to Omaha, but we got him a
minime outfit so that I could put him in his
baby Bjorn and go yeah, Mini me.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
I love those Austin Powers movies. It's so funny.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Those were good.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
So today I do have a shout out real quick. Actually,
I just was on a podcast called The Internet Is
Crack and I had a great time. Yeah, it's all
about how the Internet is addictive and crack. So it's
a perfectly right up my alley. Oh and it's kind
of another off topic, but my ted talk is up
to over four hundred thousand views on YouTube. It's just
(02:15):
crazy that that many people have seen it. So yeah,
shout out to the Internet is Crack. I had a
great time on the show. Any shout outs for you,
my friend.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Well, that's just making me think of you. Ever seen
the clip of Stephen A. Smith who like, there's something
with like lamar Otum and then he goes whose first
move as head coach of the Lakers was to draft
or trade for lamar Otum, who was on Crack.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
So I thought you were gonna go with stay off
the we is a walking sound by?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
He is? He really is. Yeah, I don't have a
shout out other than Steven A. Smith.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Well today we're gonna be talking about attachment and yeah.
I recently had someone ask me, like, who's your favorite
like child psychiatry theorist, because there's a couple a handful
of people who have like really influenced the field of
child psychiatry.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
You know.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
I had to think about it for a second and
I said, I guess if it comes down to it,
I would say John Bowlby, who came up with attachment theory.
Because there are a few things in this world from
a psychological perspective that makes sense and applies to almost
every single human on earth. But I think attachment theory
does it. I think it is such a simple but
(03:32):
beautiful theory that helps explain why people do what they
do and act how they act. So that's one of
the reasons why I wanted to talk about it with
you guys today.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Was Bolby the one that did the study with Oh man,
it's like the something Stranger, like the unknown stranger. Do
you know?
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Oh, the Strange situations developed by Ainsworth. So that was
Mary Ainsworth based John Bowlby's attachment theory. So it is
building upon it.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I'm always surprised when I remember ship from school.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Years and years ago. Now we're getting old, we are
getting old.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Oh can you give me a definition of attachment theory?
What do I need to know about this?
Speaker 1 (04:17):
So, according to simplypsychology dot com, and I like this
definition that they had. Attachment theory is a model for
understanding human beings, behavior, and psychology, emphasizing the central role
of caregivers and attachment figures who provide a sense of
safety insecurity. Attachment theory hypothesizes that early caregiver relationships established social, emotional,
(04:42):
and developmental foundations, but change remains possible across a lifespan
due to interpersonal relationships during childhood, adolescent, and adulthood, so
essentially our relationships that we have with our primary caregivers
as babies, so most of the time it's our parents
shapes the relationships for the rest of our lives. And
(05:04):
this stuff isn't static. It is dynamic. It can change
and it can move, but sometimes it can be hard
to change these things, and a lot of these patterns
that are built when we are babies are there for
a long time for a lot of our lives.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
I like that part of the end where it says
it remains possible to change across lifespan due to other
interpersonal relationships. TikTok has made so much of like basic
psychology information and like definitions into like this pop psychology stuff,
so you get like, I don't know, you get these
things like psychology says that if you react this way
(05:40):
when someone opens the door, it means you have anxious attachment.
And it's like, I don't know, like that, that's that's
way too like trivialize. It's not that much. Yeah, And
then I think on the other side of it, you
get people who will say, like, oh, well, I learned
off of TikTok that I act this way because of
my attachment style from my childhood and it's like, yeah,
I mean that could be part of it, but also
(06:00):
you've had a number of other interpersonal relationships that can
help and have help shape your attachment style and the
way that you interact with others. So like to just
base your behavior off of like a thirty second video
from TikTok, I think is which you shouldn't be doing
that anyway, But I think that's the one thing when
we when the decision was made to talk about attachment
(06:22):
style today attachment theory, that was one of the first
things that came up was how much like I think,
it's the spot in the middle where it just gets
all mushy because of social media and TikTok. I don't
like that part social media.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
TikTok, they're teaching people about a lot of this stuff,
but just like anything on the Internet, there is so
much false information misinformation out there. You've really got to
be careful what sources you have. Yeah, you know, the
only one I really trust on social media is casual Geographic.
Have you ever seen that Guy's like animals? It's hilarious.
(06:55):
There's this guy who just does these animal videos and
you can clearly tell these a huge SpongeBob fan. Seems
like he's a millennial, and so yeah, you're looking him
up right now. Yes, I've been watching a ton of
his videos that they're all letched about animals. They're lighthearted
and funny. He doesn't Yeah, he's great.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Curious I have seen this guy before.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, he's John viral a bunch of times. He's super popular,
but no one knows that. Like it's casual geographic.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Is yea the times I see it's where he talks
about like, oh, these animals seem fluffy and cuddly, right
wrong this, Yeah, we talked about it. Why is this important?
It's important even though I should it on a little bit,
not really, it just the tiktoks out of it. But
it's important because it means that every relationship that you
have in your lifetime is in some way, shape or
(07:42):
form influenced by the relationship that you had with your
caregivers growing up. This makes me think about you know,
when I was working in a clinic where I had
a lot of clients who were like in the foster
system or who were going through maybe change of caregiver,
all that kind of thing, and you can really see
how it impacts how they either react to certain situations,
(08:03):
how they think about certain situations. It's not just like
this person or person reactions of like how do they
act with their caregiver, how do they talk to adults,
But even it extends to like relationships with other kids,
with kids their age, with other peers, with siblings. That
kind of stuff impacts those relationships too, And you can
really see when it's someone who's had struggles with their
(08:26):
original caregiver that can really impact them for a long time.
It could impact the way that they choose a partner
later in life. It could impact the way that they
choose friends. It could impact the way that they how
they are as a worker and an employee, Like all
those kinds of things can be impacted because of what
they've gone through early on in life with their caregiver
and with those relationships. We don't want to just say
(08:46):
it's just parents, because there's a lot of roles that
come into play. But things that think about too are
things like grandparents, teachers, I mentioned it, foster parents, daycare workers.
If you're someone that goes to a daycare early on
in life, you're there for the first three or four
years of your life. It's the same people. Well, they
definitely will have an impact on you and you growing up.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
As a child psychiatrist and a clinician, I would have
to say like ninety percent of my tough cases are
the ones where kids grow up without a solid, consistent caregiver.
Mom and dad are usually into drugs and alcohol in
and out of prison. They're not consistent in their kids' lives,
and they never really learn how to bond and connect
(09:25):
with people, so it's hard for them to trust you.
It's hard for them to open up, it's hard for
them to work on things because just the basics of
trust and understanding each other takes so long to establish
that these cases can take a very long time to
make any progress. But if you do have a good, safe,
(09:46):
secure attachment to your caregivers growing up, you're more likely
to be trusting, loving, and understanding. I see so many
people make comments like, you know, I can't remember that
time in my life, so how important can it be?
But actually it's so incredibly important. And so many things
that we learn as babies are subconscious as adults, like
(10:09):
literally how to move, Like I'm watching my nineteen month
old baby right now learn how to move his body.
All of this stuff is going to be so second
nature by the time he becomes an adult, But right now,
it's a day to day learning. How do you walk,
how do you move? How do you lift your leg?
How do you move around? Same stuff with relationships and
(10:30):
trust with people. You learn so much when you're a kid,
and you establish those foundations when you're a baby, So
you learn how to trust, you learn how to love,
You learn how to make up with people, You learn
how to forgive people, You learn how to problem solve
during relationships. Those first three years of your life is
so crucial and essential for your emotional and social development.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Man, that really makes me think just so much. I
mentioned it earlier and you were talking about it. Those
kids who are in the foster system will have a
really negative relationship with their caregivers of like I think,
I guess I want to talk about a little more,
Like yeah, it's not just the those like peer to
peer or parent to peer relationships, but I just think
of like how they react when they get like a negative,
(11:15):
negative constructive feedback from a teacher, How they react when
a boss tells them that they did something wrong. How
do they react when someone out in public takes their
parking spot? Like, all these things end up being shaped.
A lot of it because of, you know, what their
relationship was with their caregiver early on. I didn't say
this earlier. I was thinking about it as you talked.
(11:35):
Reactive attachment disorder right, very common in kids teens who
either were in the foster system, who maybe didn't grow
up with a primary caregiver. That is something that we
see a lot, and I saw a ton when I
had clients who are on who were in foster care.
Like they they struggled, they had these things. And then
you think about too, like, these are the kids that
(11:57):
you get reports from school, or you get reports from daycare,
you get reports from other institutions that they blow up
or they don't know how to talk to kids, or
they don't know how to communicate with others. And it's
all a lot of it comes from, you know, those
early on relationships that they had with their care or
lack of relationships that they had with their caregiver. It
just you're making me think today, I like good, it's connecting,
(12:22):
it's connecting dots. We'll talk about research. What does it
say according to the Cleveland Clinic, there's been about five
decades of research on attachment theory, which is confirmed that
your earliest bonds can directly affect the health of your
romantic relationships. And then there's babies whose caregivers can regularly
be relied on for comfort and devoted attention, they tend
(12:44):
to have more stable relationships later on. And then there's
infants whose caregivers are the ones. When they have caregivers
who are less attentive are more likely to have more
difficulty forming healthy relationships as adults. So even like you
said earlier, justin people will say, you know, I can't
remember that part of my life. How important can it be?
You mentioned it already very important.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
There's a couple of different specific attachments types and styles,
which is what I love about this. It's it's simple,
it's clear, it's concise, and it just nails it so perfectly,
does ya thinking about it in a simplistic way. There's
secure attachment and insecure attachment. There's one type of secure
attachment and a couple of types of insecure, but secure
(13:28):
attachment style usually comes from babies who form secure attachments
with their caregivers and when the caregivers provide consistently or
consistent physical and emotional needs. They're fulfilling all of those
needs of a baby. Babies who are securely attached prefer
their primary giver over other people and are calmed by
(13:49):
their presence.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
I think about that too, when you have like, yeah,
like a newborn. You have a baby who like you know,
the aunt, uncle, whatever, like they're trying to help out too,
but like it does and always work the same. It's
when they get to mom or dad or whoever primary
caregivers are. That's when they start to feel sooth. I
see that a lot of like, yeah, that that is
an example of a secure attachment. People with a secure
(14:11):
attachment style or style are more readily able to form
long lasting and healthy relationships with others, and they're more
likely to trust their partner and be emotionally available for them.
It's estimated that about fifty eight percent of adults have
a secure attachment style, so that leaves about forty two
percent dispersed across the other ones. And then, just because
someone has a secure attachment style does not mean it's
(14:33):
smooth sailing all the time, that's for sure. It definitely
does not mean they are without issues or problems or
running into things, but.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
The foundations there you're able to form trust and connections
with other people. So let's dive into those insecure attachment.
So the first one is called anxious attachments to usually
(15:01):
happens when babies whose primary caregivers are not consistent in
meeting the baby's needs. Babies learn that they may or
may not get the attention they need to survive, and
they aren't easily comforted by their caregivers. People with anxious
attachment style may be seen as clingy, needy, or not trusting.
(15:22):
They often have a strong fear of abandonment and feel
like they need a lot of reassurance in relationships. And
it's estimated that about nineteen percent of adults have an
anxious attachment style, so about one in five.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
The next one is avoidant attachment. So this usually occurs
when a caregiver does not provide a baby with sufficient
emotional support. They often do care for the physical needs
like feeding and bathing, but not the emotional comfort that
the baby also needs. The baby then learns to not
rely on others for their emotional needs. As adults with
avoidant attachment style, they could be seen as self reliant
(15:56):
and emotionally guarded, and they're unlikely to seek comfort, seek
emotional comfort, understand how they're how to comfort their partner emotionally.
And it's estimated that about twenty three percent of adults
have and avoidant attachment style. So that's the that's about
one in four instead of the one in five.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
And the last one is disorganized attachment. This usually forms
through particularly tumultuous childhoods, often with a lot of fear
and trauma. It stems from an erratic, incoherent relationship with
a baby's primary caregiver, and adults with this disorganized attachment
(16:34):
are likely to live with mental health problems or personality
disorders that prevent them from developing healthy relationships with others.
This is pretty incommon. If you notice that the other
ones account for like ninety nine percent and then disorganized
as probably five percent or less. These people tend to
crave close relationships but push others away when shown attention.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Oh that sounds like borderline personnel disordered a little bit.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, yeah, very.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Simp Do you remember I feel this almost feels like
one of those things where I'm making this up. Okay,
so we're talking about secure attachment, and we're talking about
maybe they avoided an attachment. More specifically, there was a
study done which I think at this point I don't
know if the IRB the International Review Board would approve it,
but it was with I believe, like baby monkeys, and
(17:23):
there was one monkey, so they had like the baby monkey,
the two baby monkeys, and they were put into a cage,
and inside of the cage, I believe there was two
adult monkey like figures, so they weren't actually monkeys, but
they looked like monkeys. On one side was supposed to
(17:43):
be a monkey that was warm and cuddly and it
was made out of like a blanket or like soft material.
On the other side was a metal one that was
not warm and cuddly, but had access to like a
bottle or where to get like food from. And I
think they found that the monkeys preferred the warm and
cuddly blanketed one instead of the other one, even though
(18:06):
the other one provided food and meant their basic needs.
I will preface this, or I guess I'll continue this
with saying this was probably fucked up to do that
to the monkeys, and there probably was not like was
it worth it? To figure that out. But I feel
like this is coming back to me too of a
study similar to that, where it might have even seen
a video like in class or when I was in school.
(18:28):
I don't know, I don't know if I'm making I
feel like. I feel like it's a thing.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
And as soon as you said like a metal monkey,
my first thought was brass monkey, that funky monkey, because
I'm constantly just cycling through songs in my head because
that's the way my brain works. But there was also
I remember reading a lot of studies on rats that
they did and that rat mothers that like lick their
(18:52):
babies show them physical affection. They tend to release more
oxytocin in the brain of the mother and the baby,
which is that connection and chemical that is released in
our brain. Like when humans hug and kiss each other,
We're releasing a lot of oxytocin and that forms their
bonds and also predicts how successful they are with dealing
with stress later in life. So this stuff has been
(19:15):
shown in other animals. It's not just a uniquely human thing.
And that's pretty fascinating that this is survival, this is evolution.
There's an evolutionary advantage to having connections with our family
and our loved ones. It's crazy, that's so cool.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah, So we want.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
To talk a little bit about attachment styles and how
they predict the health of your relationships with family and
with your children, because oftentimes attachment styles are passed down
from generation to generation. If your parent has a specific
attachment style and shows you that models that to you,
you are more likely to have that attachment style with
(19:53):
your parent and then subsequently with your children as well.
It's easy to be able to say, like, well, why
don't people just provide their children with their emotional and
physical needs. It's like, well, sometimes people can't. Sometimes people
struggle sometimes that was never shown to them in their lives.
And this generational aspect is this strong.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I was just thinking that, like, maybe they're not able
to because of their own attachment that they are their
own experiences, you know, growing up as kids and then
becoming adults and having children of their own or being caregivers.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
So so I know that we got some of the
basics of attachment theory. Let's do some disgust and discussion questions. Anie,
how is attachment theory important in the concept or in
the context of therapy.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Yeah, I think. You know, we were talking about a
case before this, and it's been popping up in my
head as where we're talking through the episode of like
how this individual's attachment and relationship with their caregivers growing
up probably has a huge impact on where they're at
(21:02):
right now, and like how they are dealing with authority
or dealing with other adults and other relationships in their life.
And so I think it could be really helpful. I
think if as long as you have someone who's kind
of understanding of attachment styles and how that could play
and not just like the pop psychology stuff we see
on social media, I think it's really important. It can
(21:23):
be really helpful. What do you think.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I think a lot of times your therapist is the
one who can reshape your attachment style. If your therapist
is someone there for you all the time, and you're
not worried about your therapist leaving and you feel like
you can really trust them and talk with them, that
can help you shift that attachment style to a more
(21:47):
secure attachment. That's a big part of the concepts of
why therapy works, because almost all types of therapy work.
They all do something, especially if you give them enough time.
Some might work a little bit sooner than others. But
the main reason why we think that therapy works is
because you're developing an attachment with your therapist. You're learning
(22:10):
how to connect with other people, how to trust other people,
how to trust other people with your information, your deepest,
darkest thoughts, and then you can start to use that
secure attachment with your therapist to other relationships in your
life once you have a good, secure attachment with that therapist.
So that is such an important thing, and it's so
(22:30):
sad to me that some people in their lives don't
have a secure attachment. They don't have someone that they
could feel like they can really trust until they finally
get that therapist hopefully. So it's good that there's hope,
but sad that, you know a lot of people don't
have that.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
What about with We've talked about it a little bit,
but any other examples that you can think of attachment styles,
attachment theory in popular culture?
Speaker 1 (22:54):
So, my wife and I have just been on a
real kick of reality dating show Love Island, Love is Blind,
and I can't do it anymore. It's driving me absolutely crazy.
I told her, I was like, we gotta watch anything else, please,
But I hear this line a lot in those types
(23:17):
of shows, and it just happened in Again and Love
is Blind season seven, the most recent one, where I
can't even remember which couple it was, but someone said,
I feel myself being able to open up to you
and it's terrifying, And I thought that was perfect. That
is like the perfect line for someone with an avoidant
(23:38):
attachment disorder. They want that connection, but they're so afraid
of that connection. They're so afraid of the vulnerability it
takes to attach and connect with someone like that that
it puts them off, It scares them, it makes them
shy away, and boy, it makes for excellent television because
it's like, well, they won't they Will they be able
(23:59):
to overcome this? Will they be able to actually trust
each other?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
You remember shows like Next or Room Raiders or like
Parental Control those days, yeah, back in the.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Day, oh the MTV ones and pH one.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
And now we have the Golden Bachelor, and now I.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Have the Golden Bachelor.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
If you don't mind sharing, what attachment style do you
think you have it? In any examples you can give me.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I was like scrolling back, it was like fuck uh,
I don't know. Man, this has made me think I
feel like I am someone who needs some reassurance. But
I don't know if I'm someone who needs a lot
of reassurance or just like some here or there. I'm
definitely also some and not just like in my relationship
or other like friendships and stuff, but also like reassurance
(24:49):
like at work sometimes like making sure that I not
that I need to be told that I'm doing a
great job all the time, but just like reassurance that
like am I doing things I don't know? I feel
like that's that m the one thing I'm hung up on.
Other than that, I feel fairly confident that I'm in
the fifty eight percent with a secure attachment. I just
think of like these really long relationships and friendships and
(25:11):
stuff that I've had over the years and connections that
I've built, and feeling pretty pretty secure most of the time.
But honestly, yeah, I think the reassurance part is one
that I think is really sticking out to me. And
I can't remember if someone can have a secure anxious
style or like what that like little I'm trying to think.
I swear I can like picture a textbook in my
(25:32):
head from like undergrad of like all the secure all
the attachment styles and stuff. But yeah, I'm probably somewhere
in there, probably more to the secure side. Actually, Like
the last point that you made says, just because someone's
secure attachment doesn't mean everything is smooth saliente. So yeah,
I consider.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
And yes there are four like big broad main categories,
but yeah, it's somewhat of a spectrum. No one's all
one thing or all the other, especially in like a
work setting. I just like to know that I'm doing right, Like,
especially if I don't get any feedback for months, I'm like,
am I doing the right thing? Am not doing the
right thing? It's like it's hard to know unless someone tells.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
You, Yeah, what about you? Have you thought about it?
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm secure attachment, you know. Thinking
about my childhood, I don't think there was ever a
time in my life where I didn't or where I
ever had to question the love for my parents.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
They were always there for me, which I think also
brings up another really good point of like privilege, because
we think of privilege a lot of times from a
socioeconomic standpoint, like how much money and opportunities you had.
But also I think there's emotional privilege how much your
parents were able to invest in your life and your learning,
(26:42):
in your relationship and your connection, because that sets you
up with all the rest of the relationships for the
rest of your life. And I feel incredibly privileged for
the parents that I was given. And i know I've
said it many times before, but I'm just so lucky
and I always just want That's one of the reasons
I like being in psychiatry is because I want to
(27:04):
help people heal from a lot of the generational trauma
that they've been through so that they can make a
world for their children like I had. That's kind of
like my big goal.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Yeah, you know when you mentioned never having to worry
about being cared for and needs men and stuff as
a child, I think that's where I'm That makes me
more lean to the secure side because the same thing.
Very privileged to be on that end of the spectrum
where it's not something that I ever really had to
worry about, and definitely has played a positive impact to
where I am today.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
And you know, I've met your parents. They're incredibly loving people.
It's just so cool. It's fun to meet your friend's
parents and be like, oh, I can see why they
are the way that they are.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
And I think as adults it's a little cooler like
when you're like, yeah, middle school, in high school, it's
like hey, but then like as an adult's you can
actually like talk to them, which I think is cool.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
People are curious about their attachment style. What recommendations do
we have? How do they go about researching this stuff?
Talking about these things?
Speaker 2 (28:07):
TikTok search attachment style? I think one. I mean, we
got a lot of our info from the Cleveland Clinic.
I think any type of like trusted medical, psychiatric psychology information,
whether it's like the American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association,
the American Counseling Association, any of those places, the National
(28:29):
Institute of Health, all those things, SAMSA, the some substance,
all those places I think are helpful therapy for sure.
This episode is hopefully a good start, especially if you're curious.
But that's what I got. What do you think?
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Well, from a psychiatric standpoint, medicines don't really help this one. Yeah,
attachment style isn't really made any better by medicine, So
this one's kind of on personal growth, self discovery, trying
to experience packing your childhood and trying to figure out
where you land and maybe if you feel like you
are landing more in the insecure attachment style, it may
(29:08):
be time to reach out to a therapist and start
working on these things.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Yeah, what do you got for us for celebrities before
we close this one out?
Speaker 1 (29:15):
You know, like I always say, some topics are like
lists and listen list of celebrities, some are none whatsoever.
I found one person that has actually come out and
talked about their specific attachment style, and that is the
beautiful Emily Redikowski, who said that it was an interview
once where she said that therapy was actually really helpful
for her in overcoming that fear of abandonment, which sounds
(29:39):
along the lines of that anxious attachment style, and she
also studied attachment and her attachment style. I thought it
was cool that she was willing to open up and
talk about how therapy and learning about attachment theory helped
her change her life.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Dope, Well, thank you all for listening. We're really excited
for our next episode. We have a really cool guest
coming on. We're excited to share that with you. We'll
give you more information as we get closer. Shout out
to Justin for this cool topic that we could talk about.
Really made me think about myself. But I think O
Brawl is a lot of great information. We appreciate you
all for listening Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you listen to
(30:16):
your podcast, we are there and available. Feel free to like, share, subscribe,
show it to your friends, send it to somebody, leave
us a five star review. You can also leave us
a comment. Someone left the comment the other day, I
was going to ask you about this Justin on Spotify
that they said that I had an L take on
Mariah Carey's album and I can't remember exactly what I said,
but it was probably something along the lines of saying
(30:38):
that the emancipation of Mimi that was like her best album.
And I don't know if that's an L take.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Someone to comment.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Shout out to them. I love it. I'll take it,
but leave us a comment, leave us a five star review.
We're here for We appreciate you all. We've started to
show up on some charts a little more frequently recently,
so that's been pretty cool. Whether it's Chile, New Zealand, Australia.
Shout out to everyone listening. We appreciate you all on
social media at Millennia MH That's TikTok, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube,
(31:12):
and our website MILLENNIAIMH dot com. Thank you again for
listening and make sure to take care of all mentals.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Viva Chile.
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