August 28, 2025 • 36 mins
Cell Phone bans in schools are happening all across the world. Find out which states have them and which don't, what methods are working, and what Eddie's school is doing right now. Plus, find out if putting iPads in school was based on any scientific research.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to MMHC, your go to mental health podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Eddie Coreo, a licensed professional counselor.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
And I'm Justin Romano, a Board certified Child and adolescent psychiatrist.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We created MMHC to give listeners evidence based information directly
from professionals who work in mental health.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
We're not influencers, we're not trying to sell you anything.
We just want to bring love, empathy, and understanding of
mental health into this world.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
And we really think that learning about mental health should
be fun, interesting, and most importantly honest.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
So thanks for tuning in. This is a show by
two millennials, but it is intended to be for everyone.
We hope you enjoy the show. MMHC is a production
of Speaker from iHeartMedia, I HEARTMA. Hello and welcome back
to MMHC.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Eddie.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Do you remember what your ring tone was in high school?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Well, part.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Just any ring or your favorite ringtone?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Oh that's even better. I think high school was still
back when I didn't have a smartphone until I left
for college. So this is not until August twenty eleven,
but if we're gonna go favorite. Kevin gives me shit
about this because we had a discussion that I'm like, no,
people definitely still use like ringtones that they buy nowadays,
and she's like, no, they don't, and I was like, fuck,
(01:24):
maybe they don't. To this day. My ringtone is still
I bought it. It was Adorn by Miguel Singer. Yeah,
it's been the same ringtone since like twenty twelve, so
I'm going on thirteen years. Whoa, I haven't changed it. Man,
My things on silence anyway, it's just vibrating. So yeah,
(01:48):
I never hear it, but it's still there. If I
put it on, it's it's the same song.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Man, that's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yeah, what did you have a long time?
Speaker 1 (01:57):
You know, I can't honestly remember, I think, man, at
the time, I think I just would use whatever was
default on the phone because I was cheap and.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
You weren't trying to spend ninety nine cents on a
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
There was also one of the things that like my
parents would be like, we're not doing that. You can
like wait for your birthday and get it as a
birthday president or something, and I was just like, I
don't really care.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Do you remember a ring back tones? And yeah, those
were pretty sick I never got one.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
My brother had one and it was Stewie from family Guy,
just saying, who the hell do you think you are?
Hell do you think you're doing? And it was just
you call them and that's all you hear and be like,
what is do you remember.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
What would happen if the person either like ended their
subscription or didn't choose a song. It was a it
was a very specific classical like oh, it was like do.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Do That's one of my buddies had that for years
because he was just lazy and was like, I'm not
buying another one.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Well, and I bet after a certain amount of time
they just like slowly phased it out and just couldn't
even change it.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Here. I want to google it. When did ring back
tones stop? And for all those young people out here,
a ring back tone was when you called, you didn't
hear the you heard just like a song playing. Yeah,
And it was a great idea and it sounds like
it came to a final end in late twenty twenty,
(03:44):
so another victim of potemic.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Fucking COVID man, do you remember did you ever do
that thing where one there's two I'm keeping us off topic.
There was two of them like people would either do
like on their voiceman message it'd be like, hello, hey,
look what do you hold on? I can't hear you
And they'd be like, I just kidding, leave me a message.
But then the other one would be people would put
(04:08):
songs as like their voicemail.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
I don't think we ever did that in Wyoming.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I thought it was cool as ship.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
But he makes people sit through a long song, just
a little that long.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Just a little bit, yeah, just a little little snippet.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah, this is what we had to do before we
had smartphones. We just had to come up with stuff,
stupid stuff to do.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Or on the phone too, you could record and then
make that your ringtones. Did you ever do that? Oh
yes a few times. Yeah. Man, times have changed, Times
have changed.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
But you know so if you couldn't tell, we're talking
about ring tones, mostly ring tones and ring back tones,
that's really the topic for today.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Get ready for thirty minutes of our favorite ring back
tones for thirty minutes.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Man, But we wanted to wish Eddie a happy back
to school. He's back in school, the kids are back,
the students are back than you, and it sounds like
he's pretty.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Pumped I'm hyped, man, this is my fucking game day.
I've been I've been ready. We just I was talking
to one of the associo principles and he was kind
of like, he's like, yeah, I guess for you, there's
not really like a workup. You just kind of like
you just start like there's no really like ease into it.
I was like, no, I've been ready. I tell him,
(05:33):
this is my line. I always let people know, if
you stay ready, you never got to get ready. So
I'm in. I was, I was ready for it. We
worked through the professional development meetings. I learned about grading
and assessment, which applies so much to my job. And
now the kids are back. Man. So today was the
first day. It was exciting, it was fun. But the
(05:53):
big thing that changed that we're going to talk about
as a cell phone band and in Oregon and then
it looks like now thirty five states have put some
type of legislation in place for either this school year
or the start of next school year, like they'll have
until next to fall. Oregon was one of those states.
And just to kind of give a little bit of
background on how we got to this point. I'm on
(06:15):
the leadership team at our school, and we had talked
about in like April, maybe like March April May kind
of when the long legislative session was happening, that this
was coming, that people were talking about it, that they
were trying to push this through, and so we kind
of prepared and we'd already made the decision like, hey,
when school comes back, we're doing a bell to bell
cell phone band and I'll talk about what that means
(06:35):
a little bit. And ultimately it didn't pass in the
sessions and people were kind of surprised. But then Oregon's Governor,
Tina Kotek just decided she was going to sign in
an executive to order and she did, and she's giving
all school districts in the state of Oregon, I think
until October thirty, first to Halloween to put some type
of bell to bell cell phone policy into place. And
(06:59):
with bell to bell means is no phones nothing as
soon as you walk in the building until the last
bell rings for the day. You can't have it out
when you walk into class, you can't have it out
during lunch, you definitely can't have it out during class.
And that's it. That's just kind of what we're going
to do. And today was our first day with all students.
We had freshman yesterday, so today was all sixteen hundred
(07:19):
plus and it was interesting. We had about eighty phones
taken away from what I heard, I didn't get the
final count. And yeah, I mean, we'll kind of see
how it goes. It's definitely an interesting time. I have
a lot of thoughts and feelings about it. I know
a lot of other people have thoughts and feelings about it.
But yeah, we'll see. Today was day one of one
(07:41):
hundred and eighty, so we'll see what happens.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
We were talking about it earlier too, that your school
is going full throttle off the get go. That's I
think that's probably the best way to do it. Yeah,
and just try and set the message at the beginning
of the school year like, hey, we're not taking this
is a joke, Like we're taking this seriously. You use
your phone, it gets taken away.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, And one of the hard parts was kids nowadays,
and even when you and I were in college during
that time, you look up your it's the first day
of class, where's my lecture hall? You look it up
on your phone, right, And so these kids are trying
to look up their schedule. A lot of kids got
their phone. I shouldn't laughed, but a lot of kids
got their phone taken away trying to look up their schedule.
(08:23):
And so we ultimately a lot of a lot of
schedules had to be printed by our counseling center and
our secretary. It was an adjustment. You know, some things
we'll have to learn. The other part of the rule
that helps kind of keep everybody accountable, not just students,
but parents too and caregivers and guardians is the kids
aren't allowed to pick up their phone at the end
of the day. It has to be a parent their guardian.
(08:45):
So you're not getting the phone back, yeah, until your
parent or guardian comes to get it. And here's the thing.
The school, the school district is middle upper middle class.
Some people past that, right, So some people have the
privilege of mom and dad could just come in the
middle of the day and pick it up, no big deal.
Other people do not, and so they've had to figure
(09:06):
it out in real time. Okay, what do we do
for the people who mom and dad and guardian can't
come pick it up before we leave for the day,
leave school? You know, so definitely some parents who did
not look thrilled today when they came to pick up
the phones. We got some positive feedback from some parents
that was cool, and I'm sure others were frustrated. I
totally get it. It's a big change. Anytime you make
a big sweeping change, it's not going to go great
(09:28):
in the beginning. There's growing pains for sure. But yeah,
I mean I appreciate our district and our staff and
our admin of like, yeah, we're not even doing like
an onboarding period. It's just day one. We've communicated enough.
This is what the rule is, and that is that. Sorry,
if you got your phone taken away today, tomorrow's a
(09:48):
new day.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Well, it sounds like we need to call dunder Mifflin
because paper is back.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Baby. What was that one jingle they had. It was
the people person paper people, something like that. Donder myth.
I don't even know.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
I must have missed that episode.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
God damn it. Justin I mean, yeah, I think a
lot of people, a lot of teachers are going to
move to paper pencil. Let's bring it back. We're back, baby,
whoa by stalking graphight?
Speaker 1 (10:19):
We're in the graph height market is going to explode.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, little blue Books. We're back.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah, so Eddie mentioned a couple of these, but to
cite our sources from the Associated Press Jeff Amy, August
twenty first, twenty twenty five, at least an article in
the Associated Press. Seventeen states and the District of Columbia
have put in some form of cell phone ban this
year alone. A total of thirty five states now have
(10:48):
some law limiting phone use and electronics in schools. Now,
about one in four countries throughout the world have laws
banning cell phones in schools. States with no laws include
my Home, Wyoming, Go pokes with Wiscynson, Michigan. Surprised about
(11:09):
that one, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Illinois. Those are kind of
the big ones that have not had any sort of
bands yet. But it's cool that this does appear to
be a bipartisan effort and both sides of the aisle
appear to be getting behind this. In a world where
we can't agree on about much of anything these days,
we can agree that phones in school seem like a
(11:30):
bad idea. So hey, you know, hope for hope for us.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Actually, you know, this brings up something I wanted to
talk about in an address real quick and I don't
want to. I think it's just important we talk about it.
I think anytime the cell phone ban idea has come up,
you hear a lot of reasons why we shouldn't. And
one of the reasons that gets brought up a lot,
which I think is fair to think about, is what
happens in the case of a school shooting. And unfortunately,
(11:55):
like that's like a real thing that happens, and that
we think about it so many thoughts and feelings related
to that. I think what's really hard is that both
issues there's some overlap, but they're also separate, right, Like,
I think research has shown that like in the event
of a school shooting, like cell phone calls out and
text messages, those lines get locked up and it's really
(12:17):
hard to communicate and at times can even impact in
law enforcements and helps ability to get in contact with
people in the space. And I think people with an
argument of like, well, it's a child's last opportunity to
say bye, and I can understand all of that, And
I think what's really hard is that we've just gotten
to a point where like the two arguments are going
against each other when they're just kind of there's some overlap,
(12:39):
but they both can be true and separate. There should
be no reason why there's there's school shootings, and unfortunately
there was one today August seven, Minneapolis this morning, had
a Catholic school And it's like, none of that should
be happening, right, none of that should be going on.
And that's where we're at right now in our country,
and it's real shitty. And I think it's hard because
(13:00):
a cell phone ban and trying to kind of take
back and give kids an opportunity to think and learn
and have an attention span again, and adults too. I've
barely had my phone the last week. It's been pretty good.
It's definitely been a challenge, but it's been good. We're
trying to give everyone an opportunity to earn or to
learn that back. But then also that's a real fear
(13:22):
that people have, and so I understand all of it.
I just think it's important to mention it, like, unfortunately
this has happened fucking today this morning. We just got
back in session for a lot of places, and it
shouldn't be a reality in our country. It is, and
it really fucking sucks. But I just at least want
to point out that while we're talking about this today,
it's not to say that like this is the best
(13:43):
thing ever and it needs to happen, and like we're
not trying to disregard the arguments of like what about
then the event of an emergency, right, and I think
very real concerns. So that is that I will kind
of clap my hands like the end of a movie filming.
Then we'll move to the next point and cut. Thank you.
(14:06):
In terms of how schools are doing this, it depends
on the state, right, it depends on the district. You know,
some districts are just deciding to do it on their own.
The main things we have are like the magnetic pouch,
the Yonder pouches buystock and Yonder pouch. I guess where
they kind of put them in, and it's very strong magnet.
You can't open it. Some people have like a special
(14:27):
locker or place for students to put it. Some teachers
will have them put them up in like a little
caddy at the front of their classroom. Some schools are
going with like an off and away policy, so as
long as it's out of sight and it's not being used,
and that's totally fine. Kevia has showed me or shared
with me, I'm gonna butcher. It's either article or a
podcast episode where basically they talked about how even just
(14:49):
a phone being on your desk is a big distraction
in itself, and even if you're not using it, just
it being there. So it's essentially we're trying to put
as much barrier in between a student in their phone
or a person and their phone as possible. So that's
what a lot of places are doing. The hard part though,
if you look at it, magnetic pouches very expensive, like
they can run a pretty huge bill for school districts,
(15:11):
and in a time where where school districts might be
hurting for money, they might not have access to that.
So districts are trying to get a little creative with
how they do it.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
But you heard it here, Man Eddie is bullish on
Yonder pouch. So go bye bye and bye.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Location location location.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah, it's a good point that it seems like everyone's
doing their own different thing because this hasn't really been researched,
This hasn't really been studied to show this is going
to be the best way to prevent kids from using
their phones in school. We're just trying to catch up
and try things that are going to work without actually
basing it on any sort of public health data or.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Anything like that. And we're doing it live. I mean,
that's really it. Like there's no other way. It's to
the point where like the put your phone away is
just not enough, Yes, the police pay attention is just
not enough, right, And so they're trying things. And again
I've said this before, anytime a big sweeping change comes
into play, it's not going to be perfect. There's going
(16:13):
to be a lot of mess in between. So it's
just trying something new and I can at least appreciate
that trying something new in the hopes that it'll stick well.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
N Eddie brought this up a little bit earlier, but
in researching this episode, actually parents provided a lot of
the resistance for yes own bands in school because they
do want to be able to communicate with their children
in an emergency situation, and I certainly don't blame them
for that, But from the students perspective, there was a
New York Times article from November twenty twenty three that
(16:53):
said a lot of students really want to listen to
music in school and that's what they primarily do with
their phone, so that kind of changes the dynamic there.
The same article shows that a lot of in person
bullying actually happens on phones. Think about all the videos
you've seen of like some kid crashing out in school
(17:14):
and someone taking a video and then posting that later,
or like gym bullying. You see people like taking videos
of people who like making fun of other people at
the gym. Like that kind of stuff happening in school.
So hopefully this will also help to a reduction in
some of the.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Bullying that happens.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
A lot of young people were thinking that a complete
band goes too far, and then actually in that New
York Times article, one student said, I had a really
wonderful point, as an intelligent young person said, Well, banning
the phones in schools doesn't really solve the issue of
how addictive phones are.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah. I mean as I
left for the day, there was a large number of
students straight into their phone right like aon a school ended.
So I get I can. I can understand that we
just don't know we're doing it live, and so that
makes it really tough. Yeah, we're doing it live.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, any other stories of things that you've seen kids
doing that you're like, oh, you probably shouldn't be doing
that in school. I think the example I want to
give is like, I've got a lot of parents coming
into my office telling me, you know, my kids texting
me all day, you know, when they're at school, saying
like I hate this, please take me out of school,
call me in sick. Like the kids are like nagging
(18:29):
their parents to try and get them to take them
out of school, which is an unintended consequence of having
NonStop communication with your parents all the time. But I
think it's really interesting you're in the schools, so I'm
curious to see if you've got any other examples.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah, that one for sure. I think a lot of
a lot of parents are used to kid right away
something goes wrong, like I need to go home, and
that could be good or bad, right, It could be
if a parent is able to like, hey, you'll be okay,
it'll be fine, okay, cool, I'm fine. But if it
turns into like a lot of picking up and stuff
and leaving school and kind of avoidance, then that makes
it really hard to That's what makes things like this
(19:04):
really hard today. If having to go through the whole
school day without like communicating with anyone because I'm so
used to talking to somebody. I think your point of
like the bullying, for sure, like a lot of kids
feel really uncomfortable being themselves and being open in class
for fear of being filmed and for fear of like
someone oh, catching what they're doing wrong and then posting it.
(19:26):
There's it's happened at our school, it's happened at other schools.
People will make anonymous Instagram pages and they'll post, you know,
videos of somebody doing something embarrassing, and like there's not
a whole lot they can do about it, right, because
then even even the school's hands are tied of like
how do we discipline someone if we don't know who
it is? Or can you really discipline someone for what
they do outside of school hours? Right? So that makes
(19:47):
it really hard. I think the other hard part is,
you know, kids we're using and are using texting to
figure out where each other is and then meeting up
in the bathroom and doing not so great things, right,
whether there's drugs or you know, the more intimate things.
They're doing things that don't so great during the school day.
So the hope is a lot of that stuff gets reduced.
Another thing we talked about was just how many kids
(20:08):
we're doing food delivery services. We've talked about this at
the school. Is it's bad, man, let me that bad.
We have a whole big table in our vestibule area
that's just for food delivery apps, and it's it's sectioned
off by Uber Eats, Stoordash, grub Hub. Just kids spend
(20:33):
a lot of money. That's another piece to it too.
The difficulty with being able to pay attention because you're
so used to being on your phone and stuff. There's
just it's a lot. But the flip side of it
is like phones are such great tools. You forgot your
wallet in the car, cool, I have Apple Pay. I
can still buy this drink or this snack from the
venue machine and I'm good to go. I can reach
out to someone if I need to. Oh, my boss
(20:55):
just sent me a message. I can check if my
shift change, Oh, coaches moving practice of this time. Instead
of that, like there's a lot that phones, They're just
part of our daily life. And even if for me,
I have kept my phone in my office a lot
more this past week and a half there's still things
I need it for if I'm getting like a chat
like hey, I need you right away, or a calendar reminder,
things like that. So it's hard. The phones are so
(21:17):
intertwined into our lives. It's hard to find a medium
when we've been where we've been for so long.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yes, So what does the research actually say about technology
in schools? There was a good paper from Sampas Kaninga
at All twenty twenty two in the International Journal of
Environmental Research and Public Health looking at Canadian students based
on self report data, that thirty five point eight percent
(21:44):
of students use their screens or device for five hours
a day, eighteen point six percent had moderate to serious
symptoms of problem technology use, and the prevalence of problematic
technology use was actually higher in females than in males,
and heavy technology use was associated with lower academic performance
and lower levels of school connectedness. And one of the
(22:05):
points that Eddie I Know brought up a couple of
episodes ago was that usually your success in academics and
your mental well being is often tied to how connected
you are to your school. So the more you have
your phone, the more you're on your phone. Trying to
be somewhere else mentally, the less you're connected to your
school and the actually your success rates go down significantly too.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Nowadays, I hate saying that because I sound old, Like
a lot of kids and people have relationships with people,
friendships online and virtually so like that you're connected that way,
but you're not connected to the people you're physically around.
So it's kind of that balance of like, yeah, just
school connected iss is so important to identifying how well
someone can do, not even just like academically, just like
(22:48):
how well how they're well being is is just school
connectedness is super important. And we've talked about this, but
I think something that's also probably contributed to this is
how much technology has been introduce used into schools. Right
when we were in high school, no such thing as
here's a chromebook, here's an iPad. A little bit after
(23:09):
we left school, that started to happen, and I get it,
like that's a great technological piece. But kids are getting
their hands on technology a lot quicker. Our school district,
every kid has a chromebook. In the younger grades, everyone
has an iPad. I think iPads might stay at school
and stuff like that, but everyone has some kind of technology,
and you would think with how quickly the technology got
(23:31):
brought into schools, you would think that there was studied,
but it really wasn't. So if you like, there's an
article in Frontiers and Education in twenty twenty three where
there was an extensive systematic review of studies on the
literature of using screens in schools by Utler at All
twenty twenty. The quote goes, very few large scale or
(23:53):
quasi experimental studies have been undertaken that would argue that
would arguably provide a clear indication of the learning value
added by mobile devices. So long story short, we never
studied technologies in school before we let technology take over.
Things like smartboards. I think those started to come in
after we left school. Yeah, just it's so it's so interesting,
(24:13):
like it was just kind of like, yeah, this sounds
a good idea. Let's here you go, here's an iPad, kid,
let's let's figure it out.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
But it also shows the changing in thinking because like
at the time, no one really thought that this could
be or would be a bad thing until we started
to see the effects on society where we're like, oh,
like everyone is on their device all the time. We
just thought, oh, it would be so easy and good
for them to have this on them at all times.
And yeah, only in retrospect do we look back and say, like, Okay,
(24:41):
maybe that was not a great idea. Maybe we should
have studied that a little bit more before we gave
elementary school kids iPads and expected them to be able
to do their work on them.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, And it's hard because I think a lot of
the time we think of these tools as like they're
gonna it's a tool, it's going to enhance the educational experience.
Like how great is it that we have a lot
of kids graduating high school with being like proficient and
even better in like Google docs and email and sheets
(25:12):
and stuff like that. Like that's that's pretty great. Like
those are great skills to have, you kind of need those.
How good is it that these kids are just learning
how to be kind of tech savvy in a tech
heavy world. That's great, But not really considering the other
side of it, like how much like it could be negative?
And we've talked about one of the golden rules I
think we have is just moderation with a lot of things,
(25:33):
whether it's technology, some substances, not all of them, because
some of them it's zero, don't use it the kind
of foods we eat, Like moderation is super important, and
it wasn't really thought about when we started adding technology
the way we've had in schools over the years.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Discussion question, how do you have conversations with families about
screens and tech and what are they saying? What suggests
do you have? What do you think?
Speaker 2 (26:02):
I think a lot of families feel like it's an
uphill battle and it's really tough, right, like, how do
you how do you go from the laxed rules around
it to now we're going to have rules. And I
think kind of we're doing that live now in our
where we are doing it live in our school with
like hey, now put it away or it's gone kind
of thing. Ye. And I think ultimately the best time
(26:24):
to have started some kind of rule or rigor around
things like technology use was in the past when it
first started, But arguably the next best time is right
now and just kind of ripping the band aid off
and starting it right. Whether it's screen time limits, whether
it's turning off the internet, the Wi Fi in the house,
(26:45):
whether it's having your kid put up their phone in
your bedroom before you go to sleep and then sleeping
in their other bedroom and keeping it away from them.
I think it's it's ultimately it's an uphill battle, but
it's going to be in a battle that stays uphill
unless you try something drastically different. And I think think
the important thing would be to have like that conversation
with the children of like, this is what we want
(27:06):
to do. It's gonna suck. I'm really sorry, and I
think it's something that's helpful and something that could help
is doing it with them. For us, I've really tried
to buy in with the school. I'm leaving my phone
in my desk. I'm bringing it with me, but I'm
not taking it out. I was out in the hall
all day today for the most part, and there was
a couple of times, Oh, I'm gonna grab my phone ooh,
(27:27):
and I stopped. I just left it in my pocket,
didn't grab it out once in front of students. In
my office was a different story. But in front of students,
no phone use. So trying to buy in, trying to
share some responsibility in it, I think is really important.
But yeah, it's the conversation with parents. I think ultimately
it's an uphill battle. But unless we try something now,
(27:47):
it's going to stay that way.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
I've had a lot of families come in, especially towards
the end of the summer, where they say everyone in
the family is just in their room on their device
all of every day. No one spends any time together.
We don't have any meals together, we don't go out
and do anything together. And man, it is so hard
to claw your way back from that and actually get
(28:11):
your family to spend time together. And in those times
where you are spending good time together, you're playing games,
going out exploring, you're learning how to handle each other,
you're learning how to handle stressful situations, you're learning how
to communicate with each other. And if you're just only
in your house, you're not really building any of that relationship,
(28:31):
you're not really building any of those interpersonal skills. You're
just kind of stuck. So talking with families about this, yeah,
I have the same advice too, where like, hey, if
you want your kids to do it, you have to
do it too. I literally had a dad tell me like,
that's not gonna help at all, Like you got mad
at me for me suggesting that everyone put their phones
(28:51):
down and put some screen time limits on, and you know,
I don't blame them. You know, talking to people about
taking their cell phones away really remind me of when
I was on my substance use rotations and talking to
people about stopping drugs or taking drugs and alcohol away.
They get angry, they get defensive, they don't want to
(29:11):
logically think about it, where they argue with every little point.
It's a very similar mindset.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
So it's hard.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
It's hard to rewire that brain to be open to
change when we're really dependent on these cell phones.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
I won't say it's like full blown withdrawal, but it
does kind of feel that way right, Like to fully,
it's like cold turkey. It's pretty much just cold turkey.
It is cold turkey. Like you just had summer. You
had probably a lot of unstructured time, and now not
only are you waking up early and you got to
go to five classes a day, get the hell off
(29:47):
your phone? Right. How shitty is that? It's pretty tough.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
It's a huge change. So all those young people out
there in high school, if you're listening to this, because
I'm sure that these two thirty something year olds are
the mental health show that you're listening then too. We
feel for you. We know that it is a big change,
but it is the best thing for you, which is
sometimes the hardest thing to do.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Have you tried things to like lower your screen time, Like,
how do you keep your screen time lower? I do?
Speaker 1 (30:14):
I have screen time limits for myself. I have social
media limits so that I can't do more than one
hour per day. I try not to keep my or
look at my phone too much before bed. My screen
time right now is about three hours a day, which.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Is not bad. What do you mean not bad? That's great.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
But before I had Liam, my son, it was creeping
up to four and a half five. But now I'm
just chasing a toddler around and I don't know if
I can't be on my phone. So having kids, honestly
really helped to get my screen time down.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
So just have kids, Yeah, that's it? Yeah? Easy? Is
that right? I feel like I've tried the screen time
limits too. We're getting there for sure. I think. Really
the easiest thing for me has either been leave my
phone in my office at work while I'm out of
the office, or keep it in my pocket and remind
(31:14):
myself that, like, I'm not taking it out and really
the only reason why I keep it in my pocket
is because while my watch still works with the Wi
Fi and as long as it's still kind of connected
to the phone, I can still get the notifications. It's
just important that I'm able to get like a chat
notification or a calendar reminder, so I'm not missing things.
(31:34):
So that's why I'm kind of battling back and forth
with it. One thing that kind of that came out recently.
I think it was a Hank Green, not his brother
John Green. You know John Green's one that wrote The
Fault in Our Stars. Oh yeah, yeah, And Hank Green
is a YouTuber and they're both like famous on on
TikTok and YouTube and stuff. Hank Green created this game
(31:57):
called Focus Friend, and you start it and you have
a little bean and he's in a room or they're
in their room, and then when you put focus time on,
it starts to knit socks. And with the socks you
can buy stuff to decorate the room. And so I've
started kind of using that because I want to decorate
the room. There's some cool shit, but you really need
(32:19):
a lot of socks, so.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
It's a little it's kind of hard, but yeah, I
mean that that's kind of helped a little bit, just
like trying some different you know, the screen time the
focus friend.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Yeah, just trying different things because to me, it is
important to work on that.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Right now, it's just kind of throwing things at the
wall and seeing what sticks in terms of screen time.
And you know, you always hear the same things like
no screens at bedtime, screen time limits, try and have
no screens at dinner. You hear all the same recommendations
over and over and over again. But really, if we
want massive change throughout the entire world, and then we
(33:00):
got to hold the cell phone and the technology companies accountable,
just like with the tobacco industry, just like we had
to go after the companies who were selling this stuff
in order to make any major changes.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
And it worked.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
So there's there's a positive, there's an upside. But yeah,
I think I had mentioned that. I put that in
my tech talk, which actually officially hit half a million views.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Nice, that's what it was.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
But I put that in the tech talk that like,
we got to hold the tech companies accountable for this. Yeah,
And someone had posted like these guy's really going after
the tech companies, Like are we sure he's alive. Still,
I'm like, oh no, we'll worried about myself too.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
No. I mean it's and this might be a turning
point where tech and you know, social media and all
these companies are held a little more accountable. If states
had to go this far to put something into place,
this might be the turning point for that.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Yeah, it seems like finally as a society we are
saying enough is enough. It took time, it took a
lot of processing, but yeah, it seems like it's finally
starting to happen.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
On my end, We'll see how it goes. I'm interested
to just kind of see day to day. I will
say anecdotally, it was definitely louder in the lunch room
and before school. And by that I mean the kids
were talking to each other, and so I think that's
pretty cool. I think they'll figure it out. I think,
you know, though, our teacher's assistants or office aids, they'll
(34:29):
use the time to study or do homework instead of
just scroll on their phone all day. And you know,
there's the kids will talk to each other more, and
I don't know, I'm hoping teachers see that they're more
engaged in class, and I think we just got to
get through this little rough part this next week or two,
and then I think we'll, well, it'll start to pay off.
And I appreciate the how our admin and staff really
(34:51):
stuck to it today because I think that really set
the tone cool. I like it.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
I hope it goes well. Yeah, and keep us posted too.
I'm curious.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Oh, I'll let you know it. Don't worry. Thank you
all for listening. Thank you all for keeping your phone
in your pocket while you listen to this episode. You
can feel free to take it out now. Go to
Apple Podcasts, go to Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts,
like subscribe, give us a five star review, leave as
a comment whatever you'd like. You can see us on
(35:19):
social media at Millennial MHC and millenniamac dot com. Thank
you all for listening. Put some screen time limits, put
your phone away, and remember, take care of all mentals.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
The content provided in this podcast is for informational purposes
only and does not constitute legal, medical, or professional advice.
Always seek the advice of a qualified professional for any legal, medical,
or mental health concern. The hosts and the producers disclaim
any liability for any direct, indirect, incidental, consequential, or specific
damages arising from the use of this podcast or any
information contained there in. Opinions expressed by the hosts and
(35:52):
guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the
view of their employers or organizations that they may affiliate with.
By accessing and listening to this podcast, you agree to
hold harmless the hosts, guests, and producers from claims or
liabilities arising from your use of, or reliance on, the
information presented.
Welcome to MMHC, your go to mental health podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
I'm Eddie Coreo, a licensed professional counselor.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
And I'm Justin Romano, a Board certified Child and adolescent psychiatrist.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We created MMHC to give listeners evidence based information directly
from professionals who work in mental health.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
We're not influencers, we're not trying to sell you anything.
We just want to bring love, empathy, and understanding of
mental health into this world.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
And we really think that learning about mental health should
be fun, interesting, and most importantly honest.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
So thanks for tuning in. This is a show by
two millennials, but it is intended to be for everyone.
We hope you enjoy the show. MMHC is a production
of Speaker from iHeartMedia, I HEARTMA. Hello and welcome back
to MMHC.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Eddie.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Do you remember what your ring tone was in high school?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Well, part.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Just any ring or your favorite ringtone?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Oh that's even better. I think high school was still
back when I didn't have a smartphone until I left
for college. So this is not until August twenty eleven,
but if we're gonna go favorite. Kevin gives me shit
about this because we had a discussion that I'm like, no,
people definitely still use like ringtones that they buy nowadays,
and she's like, no, they don't, and I was like, fuck,
(01:24):
maybe they don't. To this day. My ringtone is still
I bought it. It was Adorn by Miguel Singer. Yeah,
it's been the same ringtone since like twenty twelve, so
I'm going on thirteen years. Whoa, I haven't changed it. Man,
My things on silence anyway, it's just vibrating. So yeah,
(01:48):
I never hear it, but it's still there. If I
put it on, it's it's the same song.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Man, that's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yeah, what did you have a long time?
Speaker 1 (01:57):
You know, I can't honestly remember, I think, man, at
the time, I think I just would use whatever was
default on the phone because I was cheap and.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
You weren't trying to spend ninety nine cents on a
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
There was also one of the things that like my
parents would be like, we're not doing that. You can
like wait for your birthday and get it as a
birthday president or something, and I was just like, I
don't really care.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Do you remember a ring back tones? And yeah, those
were pretty sick I never got one.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
My brother had one and it was Stewie from family Guy,
just saying, who the hell do you think you are?
Hell do you think you're doing? And it was just
you call them and that's all you hear and be like,
what is do you remember.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
What would happen if the person either like ended their
subscription or didn't choose a song. It was a it
was a very specific classical like oh, it was like do.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Do That's one of my buddies had that for years
because he was just lazy and was like, I'm not
buying another one.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Well, and I bet after a certain amount of time
they just like slowly phased it out and just couldn't
even change it.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Here. I want to google it. When did ring back
tones stop? And for all those young people out here,
a ring back tone was when you called, you didn't
hear the you heard just like a song playing. Yeah,
And it was a great idea and it sounds like
it came to a final end in late twenty twenty,
(03:44):
so another victim of potemic.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Fucking COVID man, do you remember did you ever do
that thing where one there's two I'm keeping us off topic.
There was two of them like people would either do
like on their voiceman message it'd be like, hello, hey,
look what do you hold on? I can't hear you
And they'd be like, I just kidding, leave me a message.
But then the other one would be people would put
(04:08):
songs as like their voicemail.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
I don't think we ever did that in Wyoming.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I thought it was cool as ship.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
But he makes people sit through a long song, just
a little that long.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Just a little bit, yeah, just a little little snippet.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah, this is what we had to do before we
had smartphones. We just had to come up with stuff,
stupid stuff to do.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Or on the phone too, you could record and then
make that your ringtones. Did you ever do that? Oh
yes a few times. Yeah. Man, times have changed, Times
have changed.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
But you know so if you couldn't tell, we're talking
about ring tones, mostly ring tones and ring back tones,
that's really the topic for today.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Get ready for thirty minutes of our favorite ring back
tones for thirty minutes.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Man, But we wanted to wish Eddie a happy back
to school. He's back in school, the kids are back,
the students are back than you, and it sounds like
he's pretty.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Pumped I'm hyped, man, this is my fucking game day.
I've been I've been ready. We just I was talking
to one of the associo principles and he was kind
of like, he's like, yeah, I guess for you, there's
not really like a workup. You just kind of like
you just start like there's no really like ease into it.
I was like, no, I've been ready. I tell him,
(05:33):
this is my line. I always let people know, if
you stay ready, you never got to get ready. So
I'm in. I was, I was ready for it. We
worked through the professional development meetings. I learned about grading
and assessment, which applies so much to my job. And
now the kids are back. Man. So today was the
first day. It was exciting, it was fun. But the
(05:53):
big thing that changed that we're going to talk about
as a cell phone band and in Oregon and then
it looks like now thirty five states have put some
type of legislation in place for either this school year
or the start of next school year, like they'll have
until next to fall. Oregon was one of those states.
And just to kind of give a little bit of
background on how we got to this point. I'm on
(06:15):
the leadership team at our school, and we had talked
about in like April, maybe like March April May kind
of when the long legislative session was happening, that this
was coming, that people were talking about it, that they
were trying to push this through, and so we kind
of prepared and we'd already made the decision like, hey,
when school comes back, we're doing a bell to bell
cell phone band and I'll talk about what that means
(06:35):
a little bit. And ultimately it didn't pass in the
sessions and people were kind of surprised. But then Oregon's Governor,
Tina Kotek just decided she was going to sign in
an executive to order and she did, and she's giving
all school districts in the state of Oregon, I think
until October thirty, first to Halloween to put some type
of bell to bell cell phone policy into place. And
(06:59):
with bell to bell means is no phones nothing as
soon as you walk in the building until the last
bell rings for the day. You can't have it out
when you walk into class, you can't have it out
during lunch, you definitely can't have it out during class.
And that's it. That's just kind of what we're going
to do. And today was our first day with all students.
We had freshman yesterday, so today was all sixteen hundred
(07:19):
plus and it was interesting. We had about eighty phones
taken away from what I heard, I didn't get the
final count. And yeah, I mean, we'll kind of see
how it goes. It's definitely an interesting time. I have
a lot of thoughts and feelings about it. I know
a lot of other people have thoughts and feelings about it.
But yeah, we'll see. Today was day one of one
(07:41):
hundred and eighty, so we'll see what happens.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
We were talking about it earlier too, that your school
is going full throttle off the get go. That's I
think that's probably the best way to do it. Yeah,
and just try and set the message at the beginning
of the school year like, hey, we're not taking this
is a joke, Like we're taking this seriously. You use
your phone, it gets taken away.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, And one of the hard parts was kids nowadays,
and even when you and I were in college during
that time, you look up your it's the first day
of class, where's my lecture hall? You look it up
on your phone, right, And so these kids are trying
to look up their schedule. A lot of kids got
their phone. I shouldn't laughed, but a lot of kids
got their phone taken away trying to look up their schedule.
(08:23):
And so we ultimately a lot of a lot of
schedules had to be printed by our counseling center and
our secretary. It was an adjustment. You know, some things
we'll have to learn. The other part of the rule
that helps kind of keep everybody accountable, not just students,
but parents too and caregivers and guardians is the kids
aren't allowed to pick up their phone at the end
of the day. It has to be a parent their guardian.
(08:45):
So you're not getting the phone back, yeah, until your
parent or guardian comes to get it. And here's the thing.
The school, the school district is middle upper middle class.
Some people past that, right, So some people have the
privilege of mom and dad could just come in the
middle of the day and pick it up, no big deal.
Other people do not, and so they've had to figure
(09:06):
it out in real time. Okay, what do we do
for the people who mom and dad and guardian can't
come pick it up before we leave for the day,
leave school? You know, so definitely some parents who did
not look thrilled today when they came to pick up
the phones. We got some positive feedback from some parents
that was cool, and I'm sure others were frustrated. I
totally get it. It's a big change. Anytime you make
a big sweeping change, it's not going to go great
(09:28):
in the beginning. There's growing pains for sure. But yeah,
I mean I appreciate our district and our staff and
our admin of like, yeah, we're not even doing like
an onboarding period. It's just day one. We've communicated enough.
This is what the rule is, and that is that. Sorry,
if you got your phone taken away today, tomorrow's a
(09:48):
new day.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Well, it sounds like we need to call dunder Mifflin
because paper is back.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Baby. What was that one jingle they had. It was
the people person paper people, something like that. Donder myth.
I don't even know.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
I must have missed that episode.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
God damn it. Justin I mean, yeah, I think a
lot of people, a lot of teachers are going to
move to paper pencil. Let's bring it back. We're back, baby,
whoa by stalking graphight?
Speaker 1 (10:19):
We're in the graph height market is going to explode.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yeah, little blue Books. We're back.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah, so Eddie mentioned a couple of these, but to
cite our sources from the Associated Press Jeff Amy, August
twenty first, twenty twenty five, at least an article in
the Associated Press. Seventeen states and the District of Columbia
have put in some form of cell phone ban this
year alone. A total of thirty five states now have
(10:48):
some law limiting phone use and electronics in schools. Now,
about one in four countries throughout the world have laws
banning cell phones in schools. States with no laws include
my Home, Wyoming, Go pokes with Wiscynson, Michigan. Surprised about
(11:09):
that one, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Illinois. Those are kind of
the big ones that have not had any sort of
bands yet. But it's cool that this does appear to
be a bipartisan effort and both sides of the aisle
appear to be getting behind this. In a world where
we can't agree on about much of anything these days,
we can agree that phones in school seem like a
(11:30):
bad idea. So hey, you know, hope for hope for us.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Actually, you know, this brings up something I wanted to
talk about in an address real quick and I don't
want to. I think it's just important we talk about it.
I think anytime the cell phone ban idea has come up,
you hear a lot of reasons why we shouldn't. And
one of the reasons that gets brought up a lot,
which I think is fair to think about, is what
happens in the case of a school shooting. And unfortunately,
(11:55):
like that's like a real thing that happens, and that
we think about it so many thoughts and feelings related
to that. I think what's really hard is that both
issues there's some overlap, but they're also separate, right, Like,
I think research has shown that like in the event
of a school shooting, like cell phone calls out and
text messages, those lines get locked up and it's really
(12:17):
hard to communicate and at times can even impact in
law enforcements and helps ability to get in contact with
people in the space. And I think people with an
argument of like, well, it's a child's last opportunity to
say bye, and I can understand all of that, And
I think what's really hard is that we've just gotten
to a point where like the two arguments are going
against each other when they're just kind of there's some overlap,
(12:39):
but they both can be true and separate. There should
be no reason why there's there's school shootings, and unfortunately
there was one today August seven, Minneapolis this morning, had
a Catholic school And it's like, none of that should
be happening, right, none of that should be going on.
And that's where we're at right now in our country,
and it's real shitty. And I think it's hard because
(13:00):
a cell phone ban and trying to kind of take
back and give kids an opportunity to think and learn
and have an attention span again, and adults too. I've
barely had my phone the last week. It's been pretty good.
It's definitely been a challenge, but it's been good. We're
trying to give everyone an opportunity to earn or to
learn that back. But then also that's a real fear
(13:22):
that people have, and so I understand all of it.
I just think it's important to mention it, like, unfortunately
this has happened fucking today this morning. We just got
back in session for a lot of places, and it
shouldn't be a reality in our country. It is, and
it really fucking sucks. But I just at least want
to point out that while we're talking about this today,
it's not to say that like this is the best
(13:43):
thing ever and it needs to happen, and like we're
not trying to disregard the arguments of like what about
then the event of an emergency, right, and I think
very real concerns. So that is that I will kind
of clap my hands like the end of a movie filming.
Then we'll move to the next point and cut. Thank you.
(14:06):
In terms of how schools are doing this, it depends
on the state, right, it depends on the district. You know,
some districts are just deciding to do it on their own.
The main things we have are like the magnetic pouch,
the Yonder pouches buystock and Yonder pouch. I guess where
they kind of put them in, and it's very strong magnet.
You can't open it. Some people have like a special
(14:27):
locker or place for students to put it. Some teachers
will have them put them up in like a little
caddy at the front of their classroom. Some schools are
going with like an off and away policy, so as
long as it's out of sight and it's not being used,
and that's totally fine. Kevia has showed me or shared
with me, I'm gonna butcher. It's either article or a
podcast episode where basically they talked about how even just
(14:49):
a phone being on your desk is a big distraction
in itself, and even if you're not using it, just
it being there. So it's essentially we're trying to put
as much barrier in between a student in their phone
or a person and their phone as possible. So that's
what a lot of places are doing. The hard part though,
if you look at it, magnetic pouches very expensive, like
they can run a pretty huge bill for school districts,
(15:11):
and in a time where where school districts might be
hurting for money, they might not have access to that.
So districts are trying to get a little creative with
how they do it.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
But you heard it here, Man Eddie is bullish on
Yonder pouch. So go bye bye and bye.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Location location location.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah, it's a good point that it seems like everyone's
doing their own different thing because this hasn't really been researched,
This hasn't really been studied to show this is going
to be the best way to prevent kids from using
their phones in school. We're just trying to catch up
and try things that are going to work without actually
basing it on any sort of public health data or.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Anything like that. And we're doing it live. I mean,
that's really it. Like there's no other way. It's to
the point where like the put your phone away is
just not enough, Yes, the police pay attention is just
not enough, right, And so they're trying things. And again
I've said this before, anytime a big sweeping change comes
into play, it's not going to be perfect. There's going
(16:13):
to be a lot of mess in between. So it's
just trying something new and I can at least appreciate
that trying something new in the hopes that it'll stick well.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
N Eddie brought this up a little bit earlier, but
in researching this episode, actually parents provided a lot of
the resistance for yes own bands in school because they
do want to be able to communicate with their children
in an emergency situation, and I certainly don't blame them
for that, But from the students perspective, there was a
New York Times article from November twenty twenty three that
(16:53):
said a lot of students really want to listen to
music in school and that's what they primarily do with
their phone, so that kind of changes the dynamic there.
The same article shows that a lot of in person
bullying actually happens on phones. Think about all the videos
you've seen of like some kid crashing out in school
(17:14):
and someone taking a video and then posting that later,
or like gym bullying. You see people like taking videos
of people who like making fun of other people at
the gym. Like that kind of stuff happening in school.
So hopefully this will also help to a reduction in
some of the.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Bullying that happens.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
A lot of young people were thinking that a complete
band goes too far, and then actually in that New
York Times article, one student said, I had a really
wonderful point, as an intelligent young person said, Well, banning
the phones in schools doesn't really solve the issue of
how addictive phones are.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah. I mean as I
left for the day, there was a large number of
students straight into their phone right like aon a school ended.
So I get I can. I can understand that we
just don't know we're doing it live, and so that
makes it really tough. Yeah, we're doing it live.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, any other stories of things that you've seen kids
doing that you're like, oh, you probably shouldn't be doing
that in school. I think the example I want to
give is like, I've got a lot of parents coming
into my office telling me, you know, my kids texting
me all day, you know, when they're at school, saying
like I hate this, please take me out of school,
call me in sick. Like the kids are like nagging
(18:29):
their parents to try and get them to take them
out of school, which is an unintended consequence of having
NonStop communication with your parents all the time. But I
think it's really interesting you're in the schools, so I'm
curious to see if you've got any other examples.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah, that one for sure. I think a lot of
a lot of parents are used to kid right away
something goes wrong, like I need to go home, and
that could be good or bad, right, It could be
if a parent is able to like, hey, you'll be okay,
it'll be fine, okay, cool, I'm fine. But if it
turns into like a lot of picking up and stuff
and leaving school and kind of avoidance, then that makes
it really hard to That's what makes things like this
(19:04):
really hard today. If having to go through the whole
school day without like communicating with anyone because I'm so
used to talking to somebody. I think your point of
like the bullying, for sure, like a lot of kids
feel really uncomfortable being themselves and being open in class
for fear of being filmed and for fear of like
someone oh, catching what they're doing wrong and then posting it.
(19:26):
There's it's happened at our school, it's happened at other schools.
People will make anonymous Instagram pages and they'll post, you know,
videos of somebody doing something embarrassing, and like there's not
a whole lot they can do about it, right, because
then even even the school's hands are tied of like
how do we discipline someone if we don't know who
it is? Or can you really discipline someone for what
they do outside of school hours? Right? So that makes
(19:47):
it really hard. I think the other hard part is,
you know, kids we're using and are using texting to
figure out where each other is and then meeting up
in the bathroom and doing not so great things, right,
whether there's drugs or you know, the more intimate things.
They're doing things that don't so great during the school day.
So the hope is a lot of that stuff gets reduced.
Another thing we talked about was just how many kids
(20:08):
we're doing food delivery services. We've talked about this at
the school. Is it's bad, man, let me that bad.
We have a whole big table in our vestibule area
that's just for food delivery apps, and it's it's sectioned
off by Uber Eats, Stoordash, grub Hub. Just kids spend
(20:33):
a lot of money. That's another piece to it too.
The difficulty with being able to pay attention because you're
so used to being on your phone and stuff. There's
just it's a lot. But the flip side of it
is like phones are such great tools. You forgot your
wallet in the car, cool, I have Apple Pay. I
can still buy this drink or this snack from the
venue machine and I'm good to go. I can reach
out to someone if I need to. Oh, my boss
(20:55):
just sent me a message. I can check if my
shift change, Oh, coaches moving practice of this time. Instead
of that, like there's a lot that phones, They're just
part of our daily life. And even if for me,
I have kept my phone in my office a lot
more this past week and a half there's still things
I need it for if I'm getting like a chat
like hey, I need you right away, or a calendar reminder,
things like that. So it's hard. The phones are so
(21:17):
intertwined into our lives. It's hard to find a medium
when we've been where we've been for so long.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yes, So what does the research actually say about technology
in schools? There was a good paper from Sampas Kaninga
at All twenty twenty two in the International Journal of
Environmental Research and Public Health looking at Canadian students based
on self report data, that thirty five point eight percent
(21:44):
of students use their screens or device for five hours
a day, eighteen point six percent had moderate to serious
symptoms of problem technology use, and the prevalence of problematic
technology use was actually higher in females than in males,
and heavy technology use was associated with lower academic performance
and lower levels of school connectedness. And one of the
(22:05):
points that Eddie I Know brought up a couple of
episodes ago was that usually your success in academics and
your mental well being is often tied to how connected
you are to your school. So the more you have
your phone, the more you're on your phone. Trying to
be somewhere else mentally, the less you're connected to your
school and the actually your success rates go down significantly too.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Nowadays, I hate saying that because I sound old, Like
a lot of kids and people have relationships with people,
friendships online and virtually so like that you're connected that way,
but you're not connected to the people you're physically around.
So it's kind of that balance of like, yeah, just
school connected iss is so important to identifying how well
someone can do, not even just like academically, just like
(22:48):
how well how they're well being is is just school
connectedness is super important. And we've talked about this, but
I think something that's also probably contributed to this is
how much technology has been introduce used into schools. Right
when we were in high school, no such thing as
here's a chromebook, here's an iPad. A little bit after
(23:09):
we left school, that started to happen, and I get it,
like that's a great technological piece. But kids are getting
their hands on technology a lot quicker. Our school district,
every kid has a chromebook. In the younger grades, everyone
has an iPad. I think iPads might stay at school
and stuff like that, but everyone has some kind of technology,
and you would think with how quickly the technology got
(23:31):
brought into schools, you would think that there was studied,
but it really wasn't. So if you like, there's an
article in Frontiers and Education in twenty twenty three where
there was an extensive systematic review of studies on the
literature of using screens in schools by Utler at All
twenty twenty. The quote goes, very few large scale or
(23:53):
quasi experimental studies have been undertaken that would argue that
would arguably provide a clear indication of the learning value
added by mobile devices. So long story short, we never
studied technologies in school before we let technology take over.
Things like smartboards. I think those started to come in
after we left school. Yeah, just it's so it's so interesting,
(24:13):
like it was just kind of like, yeah, this sounds
a good idea. Let's here you go, here's an iPad, kid,
let's let's figure it out.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
But it also shows the changing in thinking because like
at the time, no one really thought that this could
be or would be a bad thing until we started
to see the effects on society where we're like, oh,
like everyone is on their device all the time. We
just thought, oh, it would be so easy and good
for them to have this on them at all times.
And yeah, only in retrospect do we look back and say, like, Okay,
(24:41):
maybe that was not a great idea. Maybe we should
have studied that a little bit more before we gave
elementary school kids iPads and expected them to be able
to do their work on them.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, And it's hard because I think a lot of
the time we think of these tools as like they're
gonna it's a tool, it's going to enhance the educational experience.
Like how great is it that we have a lot
of kids graduating high school with being like proficient and
even better in like Google docs and email and sheets
(25:12):
and stuff like that. Like that's that's pretty great. Like
those are great skills to have, you kind of need those.
How good is it that these kids are just learning
how to be kind of tech savvy in a tech
heavy world. That's great, But not really considering the other
side of it, like how much like it could be negative?
And we've talked about one of the golden rules I
think we have is just moderation with a lot of things,
(25:33):
whether it's technology, some substances, not all of them, because
some of them it's zero, don't use it the kind
of foods we eat, Like moderation is super important, and
it wasn't really thought about when we started adding technology
the way we've had in schools over the years.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Discussion question, how do you have conversations with families about
screens and tech and what are they saying? What suggests
do you have? What do you think?
Speaker 2 (26:02):
I think a lot of families feel like it's an
uphill battle and it's really tough, right, like, how do
you how do you go from the laxed rules around
it to now we're going to have rules. And I
think kind of we're doing that live now in our
where we are doing it live in our school with
like hey, now put it away or it's gone kind
of thing. Ye. And I think ultimately the best time
(26:24):
to have started some kind of rule or rigor around
things like technology use was in the past when it
first started, But arguably the next best time is right
now and just kind of ripping the band aid off
and starting it right. Whether it's screen time limits, whether
it's turning off the internet, the Wi Fi in the house,
(26:45):
whether it's having your kid put up their phone in
your bedroom before you go to sleep and then sleeping
in their other bedroom and keeping it away from them.
I think it's it's ultimately it's an uphill battle, but
it's going to be in a battle that stays uphill
unless you try something drastically different. And I think think
the important thing would be to have like that conversation
with the children of like, this is what we want
(27:06):
to do. It's gonna suck. I'm really sorry, and I
think it's something that's helpful and something that could help
is doing it with them. For us, I've really tried
to buy in with the school. I'm leaving my phone
in my desk. I'm bringing it with me, but I'm
not taking it out. I was out in the hall
all day today for the most part, and there was
a couple of times, Oh, I'm gonna grab my phone ooh,
(27:27):
and I stopped. I just left it in my pocket,
didn't grab it out once in front of students. In
my office was a different story. But in front of students,
no phone use. So trying to buy in, trying to
share some responsibility in it, I think is really important.
But yeah, it's the conversation with parents. I think ultimately
it's an uphill battle. But unless we try something now,
(27:47):
it's going to stay that way.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
I've had a lot of families come in, especially towards
the end of the summer, where they say everyone in
the family is just in their room on their device
all of every day. No one spends any time together.
We don't have any meals together, we don't go out
and do anything together. And man, it is so hard
to claw your way back from that and actually get
(28:11):
your family to spend time together. And in those times
where you are spending good time together, you're playing games,
going out exploring, you're learning how to handle each other,
you're learning how to handle stressful situations, you're learning how
to communicate with each other. And if you're just only
in your house, you're not really building any of that relationship,
(28:31):
you're not really building any of those interpersonal skills. You're
just kind of stuck. So talking with families about this, yeah,
I have the same advice too, where like, hey, if
you want your kids to do it, you have to
do it too. I literally had a dad tell me like,
that's not gonna help at all, Like you got mad
at me for me suggesting that everyone put their phones
(28:51):
down and put some screen time limits on, and you know,
I don't blame them. You know, talking to people about
taking their cell phones away really remind me of when
I was on my substance use rotations and talking to
people about stopping drugs or taking drugs and alcohol away.
They get angry, they get defensive, they don't want to
(29:11):
logically think about it, where they argue with every little point.
It's a very similar mindset.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
So it's hard.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
It's hard to rewire that brain to be open to
change when we're really dependent on these cell phones.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
I won't say it's like full blown withdrawal, but it
does kind of feel that way right, Like to fully,
it's like cold turkey. It's pretty much just cold turkey.
It is cold turkey. Like you just had summer. You
had probably a lot of unstructured time, and now not
only are you waking up early and you got to
go to five classes a day, get the hell off
(29:47):
your phone? Right. How shitty is that? It's pretty tough.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
It's a huge change. So all those young people out
there in high school, if you're listening to this, because
I'm sure that these two thirty something year olds are
the mental health show that you're listening then too. We
feel for you. We know that it is a big change,
but it is the best thing for you, which is
sometimes the hardest thing to do.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Have you tried things to like lower your screen time, Like,
how do you keep your screen time lower? I do?
Speaker 1 (30:14):
I have screen time limits for myself. I have social
media limits so that I can't do more than one
hour per day. I try not to keep my or
look at my phone too much before bed. My screen
time right now is about three hours a day, which.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Is not bad. What do you mean not bad? That's great.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
But before I had Liam, my son, it was creeping
up to four and a half five. But now I'm
just chasing a toddler around and I don't know if
I can't be on my phone. So having kids, honestly
really helped to get my screen time down.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
So just have kids, Yeah, that's it? Yeah? Easy? Is
that right? I feel like I've tried the screen time
limits too. We're getting there for sure. I think. Really
the easiest thing for me has either been leave my
phone in my office at work while I'm out of
the office, or keep it in my pocket and remind
(31:14):
myself that, like, I'm not taking it out and really
the only reason why I keep it in my pocket
is because while my watch still works with the Wi
Fi and as long as it's still kind of connected
to the phone, I can still get the notifications. It's
just important that I'm able to get like a chat
notification or a calendar reminder, so I'm not missing things.
(31:34):
So that's why I'm kind of battling back and forth
with it. One thing that kind of that came out recently.
I think it was a Hank Green, not his brother
John Green. You know John Green's one that wrote The
Fault in Our Stars. Oh yeah, yeah, And Hank Green
is a YouTuber and they're both like famous on on
TikTok and YouTube and stuff. Hank Green created this game
(31:57):
called Focus Friend, and you start it and you have
a little bean and he's in a room or they're
in their room, and then when you put focus time on,
it starts to knit socks. And with the socks you
can buy stuff to decorate the room. And so I've
started kind of using that because I want to decorate
the room. There's some cool shit, but you really need
(32:19):
a lot of socks, so.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
It's a little it's kind of hard, but yeah, I
mean that that's kind of helped a little bit, just
like trying some different you know, the screen time the
focus friend.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
Yeah, just trying different things because to me, it is
important to work on that.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Right now, it's just kind of throwing things at the
wall and seeing what sticks in terms of screen time.
And you know, you always hear the same things like
no screens at bedtime, screen time limits, try and have
no screens at dinner. You hear all the same recommendations
over and over and over again. But really, if we
want massive change throughout the entire world, and then we
(33:00):
got to hold the cell phone and the technology companies accountable,
just like with the tobacco industry, just like we had
to go after the companies who were selling this stuff
in order to make any major changes.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
And it worked.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
So there's there's a positive, there's an upside. But yeah,
I think I had mentioned that. I put that in
my tech talk, which actually officially hit half a million views.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Nice, that's what it was.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
But I put that in the tech talk that like,
we got to hold the tech companies accountable for this. Yeah,
And someone had posted like these guy's really going after
the tech companies, Like are we sure he's alive. Still,
I'm like, oh no, we'll worried about myself too.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
No. I mean it's and this might be a turning
point where tech and you know, social media and all
these companies are held a little more accountable. If states
had to go this far to put something into place,
this might be the turning point for that.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Yeah, it seems like finally as a society we are
saying enough is enough. It took time, it took a
lot of processing, but yeah, it seems like it's finally
starting to happen.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
On my end, We'll see how it goes. I'm interested
to just kind of see day to day. I will
say anecdotally, it was definitely louder in the lunch room
and before school. And by that I mean the kids
were talking to each other, and so I think that's
pretty cool. I think they'll figure it out. I think,
you know, though, our teacher's assistants or office aids, they'll
(34:29):
use the time to study or do homework instead of
just scroll on their phone all day. And you know,
there's the kids will talk to each other more, and
I don't know, I'm hoping teachers see that they're more
engaged in class, and I think we just got to
get through this little rough part this next week or two,
and then I think we'll, well, it'll start to pay off.
And I appreciate the how our admin and staff really
(34:51):
stuck to it today because I think that really set
the tone cool. I like it.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
I hope it goes well. Yeah, and keep us posted too.
I'm curious.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Oh, I'll let you know it. Don't worry. Thank you
all for listening. Thank you all for keeping your phone
in your pocket while you listen to this episode. You
can feel free to take it out now. Go to
Apple Podcasts, go to Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts,
like subscribe, give us a five star review, leave as
a comment whatever you'd like. You can see us on
(35:19):
social media at Millennial MHC and millenniamac dot com. Thank
you all for listening. Put some screen time limits, put
your phone away, and remember, take care of all mentals.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
The content provided in this podcast is for informational purposes
only and does not constitute legal, medical, or professional advice.
Always seek the advice of a qualified professional for any legal, medical,
or mental health concern. The hosts and the producers disclaim
any liability for any direct, indirect, incidental, consequential, or specific
damages arising from the use of this podcast or any
information contained there in. Opinions expressed by the hosts and
(35:52):
guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the
view of their employers or organizations that they may affiliate with.
By accessing and listening to this podcast, you agree to
hold harmless the hosts, guests, and producers from claims or
liabilities arising from your use of, or reliance on, the
information presented.
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